1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Guess what, mango, what's that? Will? I was reading this 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: old story about a bank robbery that happened in so 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: this guy walks into two banks, one after the other. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: He has no mask and no face cover. I mean, 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: it didn't seem like he was trying to hide himself. 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: And he gets caught on camera pretty clearly, and so 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: obviously he's apprehended not long after that. But the weird 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: thing is when the cops come fro him, he was 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: totally baffled. Well, he kept saying, I was wearing the juice. 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: The juice, Well, apparently he'd poured lemon juice all over 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: his face because he knew it could be used as 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: this invisible ink for writing. And the poor guy, he 13 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: was really bewildered because he said he tested it out, 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: and the cops pressed him for details, and he said 15 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: the lemon juice had gotten in his eyes the first 16 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: time when he poured it all over his face, and 17 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: then he took a selfie to see if it had worked. 18 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: And the combination of squinting and not being accustomed to 19 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: taking his own photo, I mean, this this was well, 20 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: it made him take a photograph that he wasn't in 21 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: and he just believed that he was invisible. Oh no, 22 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: I know you almost feel bad for the guy, but 23 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, reading up on his invisible face juice made 24 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: me wonder what is the science of invisibility and what 25 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: are some of the things going on that we can't see? 26 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: And where is my invisibility cloak? So let's dive in. 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: Y Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: good friend Man Guesh, I'll Ticketer and over there on 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: the other side of the glass with the biggest smile 31 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: that you can't see is Tristan McNeil, our producer, And 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: on today's show, we're taking a WorldWind tour of our 33 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: invisible world and trying to get a better grasp of 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: all things unseen. You know, the idea of invisibility is 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: fascinated mankind for thousands of years. It's parts of our 36 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: myths and our folklore and our pop culture and you know, 37 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: even our psychology. Of course, there are lots of different 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: kinds of invisibility. So this will be a super fun 39 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: Hodgepodge episode where we cover as much as possible. We'll 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: talk to a couple of insightful authors who have devoted 41 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: years of study to stuff we can't see. So who 42 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: do we have on the line today, Mango, Today we're 43 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: talking to Bob Berman, one of America's top astronomy writers 44 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: and author of a brand new book about the curious 45 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: history of invisible light. It's called Zapped, and it's incredible 46 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: and we'll have some wonderful quizzes along the way as usual. 47 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: All right, So, in honor of Bob's new book, I 48 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: want to dive straight into the science and talk about light, 49 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: and more specifically invisible light. You know, obviously there are 50 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: large portions of the electromagnetic spectrum that we have no 51 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: trouble observing, but there's also a huge part that's totally 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: invisible to us. That's the part that includes things like 53 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: ultra violet light and for red light, radio waves, microwaves, 54 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: X rays, gamma raves, you know, all that good stuff. Yeah. 55 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I always knew there were parts of the 56 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: spectrum beyond our range of vision, just like you know 57 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: there's sounds outside the limits of human hearing. But reading 58 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: Bob's book put the vastness of light in a completely 59 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: new perspective for me, and it really blew me away. 60 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: So Bourmon rights, there's more light in the universe than 61 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: anything else. So if you were to add up every 62 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: individual light photon in the cosmos, they would account for 63 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: nine point of everything there is. And those forms of 64 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: invisible light you listed off, that actually makes up the 65 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: vast majority of the light. I actually can't wrap my 66 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: head around that fact, but it seems unbelievable. But you know, 67 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: our eyes are designed to recognize only the Sun's most 68 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: abundant energy, so we really can only see the colors 69 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: that the Sun emits most strongly. And even though the 70 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: whole universe is light, the bulk of it, it's completely 71 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: invisible to us. We've actually figured out all kinds of 72 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: ingenious ways to measure and observe forms of invisible light. 73 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: And one of the most interesting things I came across 74 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: while prepping for this episode was the way human observation 75 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: actually affects the behavior of light. All right, well, I 76 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: think this pretty complicated, so why don't you break it 77 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: down a little. Well. When quantum theory became all the 78 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: rage in the twentieth century, scientists started noticing something super weird. 79 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: They found that when they use special equipment to pinpoint 80 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: the location of photons. These tiny bits of matter always 81 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: behaved as particles. For example, they could pass through one 82 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: tiny hole or another in a barrier, but not through 83 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: both holes at once. All right, so far, so good, 84 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: and particles do what particles do that. I don't think 85 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: there's anything weird about that, right, But the scientists also 86 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: discovered that when they didn't try to determine the exact 87 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: location of each photon, the photons behaved as waves instead 88 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,559 Speaker 1: of particles. So the photons were then able to pass 89 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: through both tiny holes in a barrier at the same time. 90 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: And that's something that only waves can do, not particles. Okay, alright, 91 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: I spoke through soon. That's really weird. And so you're 92 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: saying that light, photons and other sub atomic matter act 93 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: like particles, you know, when they know we're watching, and 94 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: then like waves when they know we aren't looking. Yeah, 95 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: it's something like that. So obviously the photons themselves aren't 96 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: aware of us watching them, but they definitely seem to 97 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: act differently based on how closely we observe them. And 98 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: the best explanation, at least according to most physicists, is 99 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: that when we look closely, our brains halt the wave 100 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: patterns so that we can see the photon in a 101 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: certain place as a particle. It just makes us feel 102 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: better that way. That's really insane, all right. So where 103 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: does that leave us? Does light exists as a wave 104 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: or as tiny bits of almost invisible matter? Yeah, it's both. 105 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: So Bob Berman sums up the paradox this way, and 106 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to quote him here. He says, just a 107 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: century ago, the local realism mindset of science and even 108 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: common sense, held that all objects, including atoms and photons, 109 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: have an existence independent of our observation of them. But 110 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: that's been replaced by a more modern view that our 111 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: observation itself is necessary for the very existence of a 112 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: photon or an electron. A spooky prospect, kidding. Yeah, So, 113 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: he continues, it possessed no real existence as an actual 114 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: photon or electron or whatever it was. Rather, it's observed 115 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: existence is it's only existence. The observation establishes reality, nothing 116 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: else is certain. Oh that's pretty trippy. Yeah, the stuff 117 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: feels so philosophical, and especially when you go from a 118 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: micro perspective to a macro one, because just like with photons, 119 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: the color and brightness of light doesn't exist outside the 120 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: experience of the observer. We only see light as a 121 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: certain color because of how it stimulates the cones in 122 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: our eyes and how our brain interprets those signals. Well, 123 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: that's a good point, but it's also kind of a 124 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: terrifying I mean, it means the external world is really 125 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: just as invisible as a UV ray, because outside of 126 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: human observation, there is no color or brightness. It's just 127 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: this mix of different invisible energy pulses. Actually, by the way, 128 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: that this is off topic, but did you read about 129 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: the women that supposedly have four cones in their eyes 130 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: instead of three, and as a result, they can see 131 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of color. That's a wild Yeah, they're 132 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: called tetra chromats. But baby, we're clinging too tightly to 133 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,919 Speaker 1: the human experience that you know. I actually did some 134 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: digging to see if there were any animals whose vision 135 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: best oars in terms of light perception, and it turns 136 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: out there quite a few that put the invisible spectrum 137 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: to pretty good use. Awesome, so give me the low down. Well, 138 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: one case where plenty of animals have a speed is 139 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: the ability to perceive ultra violet light. The invisible UV 140 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: radiation is all around us, and while it's useful for 141 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: getting a golden tan, it's also a menace because exposure 142 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: to it can lead to melanoma and other illnesses. But 143 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: that hasn't stopped some animals from making the most of 144 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: UV light. There's some species of birds that have plumage 145 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: that you know, to our eyes look the same between 146 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: males and females. But if your vision allows you to 147 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: see the UV range like those birds are able to 148 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: see it, you know you'd be able to make out 149 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: the uvy markings that distinguish them. So those markings make 150 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: it easier for the birds to find a met definitely, 151 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: but that's actually only part of it. Some mother birds 152 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: determine which chicks to feed based on how much UV 153 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: light you know their heads reflect. For whatever reason, the 154 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: heartier birds tend to have a shinier crest than their 155 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: weaker siblings, so when the mama bird has limited food 156 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: to share, she'll go with whomever has the most shine. 157 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: There's also the fact that urine and feces of mice 158 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: and other small prey are visible in the ultra violet range, 159 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: so birds that are sensitive to UV light can use 160 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: these traces to track their prey, even in a place 161 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: where everything is uniform in color, you know, like a 162 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: green field or something like that. But you know, birds 163 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: aren't the only ones that can do this. You have 164 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: rodents and bats and even some marsupials that can see 165 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: UV light for similar reasons. So I actually think I 166 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: read something about butterflies also having great V perception, and 167 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: I think they use it to identify which flowers are 168 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: currently producing nectar based on the color of the petals 169 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: or something. Well, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because 170 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: butterflies with a high sensitivity light are often considered to 171 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: have the widest visual range of any form of wildlife. 172 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: It's crazy the invisible world might be the most visible 173 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: to butterflies of all things. But before we move on, 174 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: there's one last animal I want to talk about, and 175 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: that's the reindeer. So I'm sure there's a Rudolph joke 176 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: in here somewhere, but not telling reindeer can see UV risk. Well, 177 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: it sounds strange at first, but reindeer of evolved to 178 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: take full advantage of the ultraviolet range, and they're not 179 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: the only ones. There are other Arctic mammals who make 180 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: their homes at the Earth's poles, and they have to 181 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: deal with much higher levels of UV light. Yeah, the 182 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: thinning ozone layer doesn't block as many rays as it 183 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: used to, especially in those upper latitudes. Yeah, exactly. So 184 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: there was this study out of the University College of 185 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: London and the University of Tromso in Norway, and they 186 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: found evidence that not only a reindeer resistant eye damage 187 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: from intense UV rays, they're also able to see UV 188 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: light and this helps them find food and avoid predators. 189 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: And in the winter, reindeer primarily do two things. They 190 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: eat lichen and they try to avoid being eaten by wolves. 191 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: And wouldn't you know it, lichen and the fur of 192 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: wolves both absorb UV light. So because snowy landscape strongly 193 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: have reflect UV rays, you got reindeer that can spot 194 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: lichen and wolves with ease. Yeah that's really cool, And well, 195 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: I think you and I could nerd out on reindeer 196 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: facts for a while, Like how Norwegian scientists wanted to 197 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: get closer to reindeers so they could study them better, 198 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: so they wore polar bear costumes and did that work? No, 199 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: not at all, Like it's scared off the reindeer. But 200 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: they also wrote a a scientific paper on reindeers reactions 201 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: to costumes, and we're hoping to redo the study with 202 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: better costumes, like like a clown costume. I like how 203 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: they just went off track there, Like that didn't work, 204 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: So let's just do costumes. How about clowns? How about 205 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: police officers? Science is great, but what I was saying 206 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: was I think we should shift the topic a little. 207 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: All right, well, what do you what do you want 208 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: to talk about? Secret messages? So last year a group 209 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: of scientists and friends developed a special kind of paper 210 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: that can carry secret messages. It looks just like plain 211 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 1: old paper, but you can use different wavelengths of UV 212 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: light to read, write, or even erase the messages that 213 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: can't be seen invisible light. So how does that work? 214 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: So apparently the paper has this special kind of molecule 215 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: bonded to its cellulose fibers that reacts and turns fluorescent 216 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: when exposed to UV light. The idea is you can 217 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: write messages on the paper using a stencil to produce 218 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: dark and bright areas that react differently under the UV lamp. 219 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: But the really cool thing is that the process is 220 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: completely reversible. You can expose the used paper to a 221 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: shorter wavelength of UV light that erases the message completely, 222 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: and that way paper can be used over and over. 223 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 1: I mean, it is kind of cool, but what's the 224 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: advantage over you know, the disappearing reappearing and visible length 225 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: that our kids play with and stuff like that. So 226 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: why is this better than that? So not only are 227 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: the messages on this paper undetectable under visible light, they 228 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: also can't be dissolved with other chemicals. So it's the 229 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: super useful tool in anti counterfeiting and tracking operations. A 230 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: good job, France, you know. I actually want to dive 231 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: into some of the historical obsession with invisibility and the 232 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: ridiculous potions humans used to make. But before we do that, 233 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: how about we check in with Bob Burman and see 234 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: if he can tell us a little about the cool 235 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: properties of light and how humans have managed to turn 236 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: something invisible to our advantage. So in this episode on 237 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: All Things Invisible, we've been talking a little bit about 238 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: this great book, Zapped, and we're really lucky to have 239 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: one America's top astronomy writers on with us and the 240 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: author of this book. It's Zapped from infrared to X rays. 241 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: The Curious History of invisible Light. Bob Berman, welcome to 242 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: Part time Genius. Well, thank you, great to be here. 243 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's just start with the basics. So 244 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: can you explain to us where light comes from. Well, 245 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: all light, except for gamma rays, comes from one source only, 246 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: and that is atoms. If the atom gets excited in 247 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: any way, electricity, collisions, anything can may be excited, madam, 248 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: So that the electrons or in the case of hydraten 249 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: it's only got one electron, jumps to a higher orbit 250 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: because it's excited, it really doesn't like to be there. 251 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: So in a fraction of a second, it'll tumble down 252 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: closer to its nucleus, and that is what causes any 253 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: kind of light. And the distance that it tumbles down 254 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: determines the color of the light and therefore whether it's 255 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: visible or invisible. So, I know you talk about this 256 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: in your book, But what did ancient people think about 257 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: light and were they aware of invisible light? They felt 258 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: about light as at first something that comes from the eye, 259 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: and then later on as an interaction between a beam 260 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: from the eye and external objects. So they got it 261 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: wrong for a long time. They realized that it involves 262 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: something with a very fast speed, but nothing more than that. 263 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: And nobody foresaw invisible light until the time of the 264 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: Renaissance of the Middle Ages. It was one of those 265 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: things that no wise person or Greek philosopher, or scientists 266 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: or religious order, nobody came up with the idea that 267 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: there might be kinds of light out there that our 268 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: eyes can't see well. In the Renaissance, as you mentioned, 269 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: you know, with this idea of invisible light being a possibility, 270 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: how did this start to be discovered? Well, it's really 271 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: William Herschel who found the first kind. He projected sunlight 272 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: through a prism piece of cut glass onto a tabletop, 273 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: so you had the whole rainbow of colors. And then 274 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: he put a thermometer in each color, and he had 275 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: other bmometers on the side in the darkness to act 276 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: as controls. And so he noticed that when the thermometer 277 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: was in the blue or the green part of the spectrum, 278 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: the temperature went up very little, in the yellow it 279 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: went up more, and the red it went up still more. 280 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: But then he took a break, and when he came 281 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: back some minutes later, the sun had moved across the sky. 282 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: So the spectrum on the table had shifted, and now 283 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: his thermometer on the table was no longer in the 284 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: visible light instead of was sitting in a spot of 285 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: darkness outside of the spectrum, just beyond the red end 286 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. And he looked down on it, and 287 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: now that thermometer was crazy. It was had It was 288 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: registering much more heat than any color did. And so 289 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: he repeated this and he realized that the blank spot 290 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: beyond the red part of the spectrum was heat, was 291 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: producing more heat while he realized it had to be 292 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: an invisible kind of light that was creating the heat, 293 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: and he called these calorific rays. Later on we came 294 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: to call it infrared. So that was the first kind 295 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: of invisible light ever discovered. Wow. Wow. And you also 296 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: talked in the book about the discovery of X rays 297 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: and I'm curious what the you know, the public response 298 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: was to this discovery. Well, X rays, Yeah, that changed 299 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: the world too. That was Renkin, and he was boy. 300 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: He had fame and he would have had fortune too 301 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: if he had patented it, but he didn't. Generously just 302 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: allowed the world to use it, and almost right away 303 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: people realized the value in medicine that you could use 304 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: X rays and find a bullet, wear a bullet was 305 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: in my body for someone who had been shot, or 306 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: where broken bones were broken. And but nobody knew at 307 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: the time that X rays also had a dark side, 308 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: that it could produce harm as well as benefits. What 309 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: new opportunities for the use of invisible light are the 310 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: horizon and things like medicine or technology or culture, well 311 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: everywhere you know, we use that more than visible light 312 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: these days. Everybody knows about microwaves and used in for 313 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: not just our ovens, but for broadcasting on the GPS 314 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: signals that come down to us from the radio part 315 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. Really the microwave part of the spectrum. 316 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: So whenever we use our GPS in our cars, or 317 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: when when we're on a camping trip, or use our 318 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: cell phones, those are all parts of the radio spectrum. 319 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: And then we know about the infrared. We use heat laps, 320 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: we use garage door openers, that are they're using infrared 321 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: and ultra violet. That's boy, that's the one with the 322 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: two edged sword. Ultra Violet is both the most dangerous 323 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: form and the most valuable for our health. And what 324 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: makes UV rays so harmful to us. Well, they're the 325 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: beginning of the part of the spectrum that has the 326 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: power to ionize and others to strip electrons from atoms 327 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: and therefore to change genes, that change chromosomes, to alter DNA, 328 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: and that could give rise to cancer, and it does. 329 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: The eight thousand or so melanoma deaths per year. Skin 330 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: cancer are caused by generally too much UV, usually from 331 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: from from a bad sudden burn in our youth. And uh, 332 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: and that's why people nowadays know that they should be 333 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: putting on sunscreen and wearing hats and stuff like that. 334 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: But bad thing has happened from that too, in that 335 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: we've now blocked so much of the UV. That's strange 336 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: things are happening to our bodies that that most even 337 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: doctors are not aware of, although many are like like, like, 338 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: what do you do? Have some examples of this? Yeah, yeah, 339 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: and this is started. If I could give just a 340 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: bit of background, There was a time, of course, when 341 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: we were an agricultural society and we were out of 342 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: doors a lot, and we got plenty of sunlight and 343 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: therefore plenty of ultra violet, which is a few percent 344 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: of the sunlight and stimulates our bodies to produce U 345 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: v a vitamin D very quickly. That V induced vitamin 346 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: D is such a avalanchingly fast process that we get 347 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: more UV from twenty minutes in the strong sunlight, and 348 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: then you would from drinking two hundred glasses of milk. 349 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: So somehow our bodies want lots of vitamin D production 350 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: from UV. It's a natural thing. But as we moved 351 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: indoors to be a manufacturing society, and then starting in 352 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties, had air conditioning so that we 353 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: didn't have to open windows, and glass blocks UV, and 354 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: so it blocks the vitamin D production on our skin. 355 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: And then worst of all, this is something that the 356 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: Vitamin D Council talks about a lot, because the doctors there, 357 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: like John Cannell like are really getting frustrated with the 358 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: fact that we've turned into kind of a race of 359 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: of of mold people where we're blocking the sun entirely 360 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: and not getting enough sunlight. They see it that it 361 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: wasn't that many decades ago. The kids after school. Of course, 362 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: during school they're not getting any UV and therefore not 363 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: producing any vitamin D. But after school kids used to 364 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: play outdoors and parents used to say yeah, come back 365 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: at dinner time, and between they be out doing whatever 366 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: in the playground or climbing trees. And then that changed. 367 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: So their UV levels in their and their blood has 368 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: dropped to a really, really low level. So what does 369 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: this do is it turns out that UV is one 370 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: of the strongest prevent ers of cancer. It stops cancers 371 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: from growing, so when they're tiny, pre detectable tumors, they 372 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: don't get any bigger. This year, for example, it was 373 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: found that pancreatic cancer is prevented by by adequate vitamin 374 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: D triggered by ultra violet light. So there are a 375 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: lot of health benefits also psychological benefits in terms of 376 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: treatment for depression and and things like that. If you 377 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: get enough sunlight induced h vitamin D, it's hard to 378 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: strike that strike that perfect balance. No, you're so right. 379 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: At the same time, you don't want to burn. So 380 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,959 Speaker 1: the people like Dr Cavill in the Vitamin D Council, 381 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: they say that we should get as much sun as 382 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: we can without burning, because everybody is so different and 383 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: how much sun they can handle before they start to burn. 384 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: You know, blue eyed blonde people tend to burn faster 385 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: and camp shouldn't get as much. Well, there are a 386 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: thousand other questions we could ask. Is this such a 387 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: fascinating book. I hope all of our listeners will check 388 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: out zapp. But Bob, thanks so much for joining us 389 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: on Part Time Genius. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much. 390 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius and we're talking about 391 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: the peculiar allure of turning invisible, So mego. We mentioned 392 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: at the top of the show that humans have been 393 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: obsessed with the idea of invisibility from millennia, so I 394 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: thought it might be fun to take a look at 395 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: some of the weirdest attempts to go invisible that people 396 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: have tried all over the years. Yeah, so I'm definitely gay. 397 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: I spent some time looking up medieval recipes and spells 398 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: to turn yourself invisible, and as you might guess, they're insane. 399 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: So one of my favorites is from the Ashmole, which 400 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: is this anonymous fifteenth century manuscript that collected over a 401 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: hundred eighty magical and non magical recipes in English and Latin. 402 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: So this is the invisibility spell. It goes if you 403 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: wish to be invisible. Take a dead dog and bury 404 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: it and plant a bean plant over it, and place 405 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: one in your mouth, and without a doubt, you'll be invisible. 406 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: That that's it. It's simple. It's like one of these 407 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: great invisibility life hacks. But but don't worry. If you're 408 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: fresh out of dead dogs or beans, there's another suggestion 409 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: for you. Um this is also from the Middle Ages. 410 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: Grind up an owl's eye with the ball of beetle 411 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: dung and some olive oil and rub it all over 412 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: your body. I like the addition of the olive oil, 413 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: like weird stuff, and you know, just put some olive 414 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: oil in there that I think I'd rather eat the 415 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: dead dog being So why do they all have to 416 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: be so gross? So most invisibility charms that ties to 417 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: a cult practices so they tend to feature nasty ingredients 418 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: like the ivan a for a heart of a bat 419 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: or whatever. And one of them actually calls for the 420 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: head of someone who committed suicide but stuffed with fava beans. God, 421 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine why any of these ingredients were 422 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: picked to be the ones that would turn you invisible. 423 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: But I don't know, and think about it. Might have 424 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: something to do with our desire for power, which seems 425 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: to be at the root of man's continuing quest for invisibility. 426 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we have stories going all the way back 427 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: to antiquity that point to the dark side of going invisible. Yeah. 428 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: So there are all kinds of myths and folk legends 429 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: that warn about the corrupting power invisibility and how it 430 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: can lead even the most pure of heart heroes into 431 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: recklessness or voyeurism. And well, you know, these commonalities between 432 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: fables from different cultures. I find these fascinating. In this case. 433 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: They seem to suggest that we all know invisibility as 434 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: a power that we probably shouldn't have, and you know, 435 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't stop us from wanting it though. And in fact, 436 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: the top two superpowers that people always cite is the 437 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: ones they'd most like to have, are the ability to 438 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: fly and the power to turn invisible. Yeah. So both 439 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: of those provide the user a crazy amount of freedom, 440 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: and maybe that's why we find them appealing. You know, 441 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: that could definitely be the case. But in keeping with 442 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 1: the shady side of invisibility we've been talking about, there 443 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: there might be another explanation, and I couldn't find an 444 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: actual psychological study of this, but there is some speculation 445 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: about what the choice between flight and invisibility says about 446 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: a person. William Barry is this psychotherapist and professor at 447 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: Florida International University. He suggests that people who opt to 448 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: go invisible are embracing their dark side, you know, the 449 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: side of themselves that they typically don't like to acknowledge 450 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: as being part of them. So this is the side 451 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 1: of your psyche where all your most shameful thoughts and 452 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: desires dwell. According to Barry, quote, many of those who 453 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: choose invisibility do so to hear what others say about 454 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: them when they aren't around, or to spy on others, 455 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: or to procure things that they don't have the money 456 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: to pay for. It's easy to see how this relates 457 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: to the dark side. Yeah, it really is, especially when 458 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: you compare it to choosing flight, which is mostly appealing 459 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: as this form of fast travel or experiencing this different sensation, 460 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem to have any of the darker edge, 461 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: right and you know. Barry found that people who choose 462 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: power of flight generally see it as a way to 463 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: add excitement or fulfillment to their lives. Whether that's from 464 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: you know, maybe rescuing people from burning buildings or just 465 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: zipping across the world to have dinner in Italy, or 466 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: you know, something like that, which is interesting. You know, 467 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: there's another commonality between invisibility fables that we should probably 468 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: talk about, all right, and what's that invisibility cloaks. So 469 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: ancient Greek myths described caps and cloaks with magical properties 470 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: that made the were invisible to other mortal men, and 471 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: from their invisibility, cloaks have popped up in everything from 472 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: Welsh and Germanic folklore to modern day pop culture. Of course, 473 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: and I'm guessing being a big fan, you're thinking of 474 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: Harry Potter definitely, So Harry Potter is never far from 475 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: my mind. But scientists have been hard at work on 476 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: cloaking devices for a while now, things that can mask 477 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: or completely hide an object or a person from sight. 478 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: And sometimes they're more successful than others. But all of 479 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: the most promising ones involves something called meta materials, and 480 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: it's just you know, some kind of super science cloth 481 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: or something more or less. So meta materials are basically 482 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: a kind of material that's engineered to have properties that 483 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: that don't occur in nature, and in this case, it's 484 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: a light bending property that manipulates by So the reason 485 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: objects are visible to our eyes at all is because 486 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: objects distort light waves based on their shapes. But when 487 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: the light from an object reaches our eyes, we see 488 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: the object by recognizing those distortions. Alright, so meta materials 489 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: they somehow counteract this or so. The idea is that 490 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: the meta material forms a kind of shell around the object, 491 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: or a cloak, so the light rays bends smoothly around 492 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: the meta material and recombined on the other side. And 493 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: one helpful example I came across is that it's kind 494 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: of like water flowing around a rock and a stream. 495 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I viewer on the far side wouldn't see anything unusual, 496 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: but both the meta materials shield and object in its 497 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: center would be completely invisible to him. It would look 498 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: like the lights bouncing off a smooth surface, which is 499 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: pretty cool. But I don't know, I have the same thing. 500 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: I've read so many headlines over the last few years 501 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: that claim we're this much closer to Harry Potter like 502 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: invisibility cloak, And you know, there are definitely some similarities 503 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: to what you're describing, but it's hardly a one to want. 504 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, natural materials get their special properties 505 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: from the arrangement of atoms, and there's no way what's 506 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: going on with these meta materials is the same thing. Yeah, 507 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: that's true. And these cloaking devices are more like chunky 508 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: rings and pyramids that fit over a stationary object right now, 509 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: rather than any sort of sleek piece of fabric. But 510 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: the technology is advancing pretty quickly. Well, I'm glad to 511 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: know that we're on our way towards that. But why 512 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: don't we break for a little quiz? Alright, So today's 513 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: show us about invisibility. We decided to bring on to 514 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: Seattle based artists who produced the delightful art series that 515 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: only shows up when it rains. Welcome to the show, 516 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: Peregon Church and Zach Fisher. Thank you great to be here. 517 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you on. And and 518 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: for you listeners who aren't familiar with rain Works, you 519 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: should definitely check out the photo gallery at www dot 520 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 1: rain dot works because it's fantastic. So can you tell 521 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: us a little bit about how you came up with 522 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: this idea of making invisible artwork that only shows up 523 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: in the rain. I love thinking of ways to use 524 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: materials that already exists in ways that they shouldn't be used. 525 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: And I came across this stuff called super hydrophobic coatings. Basically, 526 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: when you put it on the surface, it keeps it 527 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: from getting wet, and I thought, wow, that's super cool. 528 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: You're watching all this water roll off these clothes and 529 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: shoes and whatever. What if you put it on something 530 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: that change color when it got wet, like concrete, and 531 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: so you since it's a spray on the thing, you 532 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: could spray it through a stencil on the concrete, and 533 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: as long as it was invisible and dry, you can 534 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: create art that was only visible when the surface is wet. 535 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: Would you tell our listeners a little bit about some 536 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: of the designs you do and how you make them interactive? Sure, 537 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: we like to do things that are positive, things that 538 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: don't make someone stay better. That's are really one of 539 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: the big motivations behind it. Because in Seattle and the 540 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: Pacific Northwestern general people tend to suffer from sad seasonal 541 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: effect of disorders. The skuys are gray and it's dreary 542 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: and wet all the time. So we figured we could 543 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: take that thing that causes the jurius the rain and 544 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: use it to make people smile. We did a lock 545 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: mass monster at a at a dock out in over 546 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: a lake here in Seattle Green Lake so that people 547 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: could stumble upon the monster while they were out on 548 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: rainy days. We do games. Sometimes, we've done like it 549 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: Don't Touch the Lava game. Um. We've done like nostalgic 550 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: references to like characters that we love as like when 551 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: we were kids. So like we've done like a Peter 552 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: Pan rainwork and like Calvin and Hobbs rain work. Basically 553 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: just whatever we think would like cheer someone up or 554 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: make them smile or make them think when they see 555 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: it it's funny. I mean even hearing the examples makes 556 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: you smile. That's pretty great. And you've now turned this 557 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: into a business. So what are the best applications of 558 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: your rain works? And you know that you've seen in 559 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: the wild. Now, oh man, we've seen so many some 560 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: all over the world. Some people have done like promposals 561 00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: or actual wedding proposals with them. We've seen people use 562 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: public sountains to make like dolphins that appear. That's awesome. Yeah, 563 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: there was one just like a day or two ago 564 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: where they coated a canvas with it, then through water 565 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: balloons with like water based paint in them, through do 566 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: a gender reveal right back, that was what that was. Yeah, Yeah, 567 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: it's that kind of worked a little differently because our 568 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: spray doesn't repel paint, but it like reacted with it 569 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: in a certain way, so it does kind of make 570 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: the letters pop, but like not in the way you expect. 571 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: It's really interesting to see like a new application for it, 572 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: and that's really been the coolest thing is like just 573 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: since this started, it's really taken off just all around 574 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: the world, and we get like no one's popping up 575 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: in like Denmark and like Taiwan and like Armenia. Does 576 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: having worked on this project make you look forward to 577 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: rainy days? Like do you sit on benches waiting for 578 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: people to interact with the art? Oh? Absolutely. It has 579 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: completely changed our perspective on rainy days. And one of 580 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: our favorite things to hear when we tell people about 581 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: the project is them the words coming out of their mouths, 582 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I can't wait till it rains. Now, 583 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: like that means the world to us. We've become so 584 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: hyper sensitive to it that every time it starts to 585 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: rain or like the forecast predicts range like were like 586 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: on the edge of our sieves, like we're preparing, we're 587 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: making rain work. Our our whole work as well depends 588 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: on the weather. For sure, we'll tell us a little 589 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: bit about your connection with the Awesome Foundation. Sure. When 590 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: I had this idea, it was just an idea, like 591 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: on a note in my phone for a long time, 592 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: but it was one of one of my favorites, and 593 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: I started mentioning it to people and eventually mentioned it 594 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: to a friend in Seattle who was part of the 595 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: Seattle chapter of the Awesome Foundation. For anyone doesn't know, 596 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: the Awesome Foundation is an organization that every month it's 597 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: one dollars the person with a cool idea or an 598 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: awesome idea, as they put it, No, it's needs attached. 599 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: So I submitted this rain activated our idea, but we're 600 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: not called rain works to the Austin Foundation, and they 601 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: accepted it, and that was what really gave it the 602 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: first push. All right, Well, I thought we should play 603 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: a little game with these guys, and Mango, you came 604 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: up with one that's appropriate from what what game are 605 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: we playing with? A Peregrine and Zach. It's called I'm 606 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: Only Have You in It rains all right. We love 607 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: your Rainy Day project, and we figured we'd give you 608 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: a quiz where all the answers involved rain and you 609 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: can work together on this. So you guys ready, you're ready? Alright? 610 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: He got five questions for you, all right. Number One, 611 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: Gene Kelly had a one hundred and three degree fever 612 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: when he danced the big number in this rainy movie. 613 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: What classic film are we talking about? One? Number two, 614 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: Prince's manager questioned the decision to put When Doves Cry 615 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: in this movie slash album because the song didn't have 616 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: a baseline and he didn't think it would be a hit. 617 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: What Prince movie are we talking about? Purple Yes? All right? 618 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: Number three? All these pop culture references. I'm depending on 619 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: your's action. He's really pulling through, alright. Number three. During 620 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: the filming of this award winning movie, both Tom Cruise 621 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: and Dustin Hoffman thought the flick would be a clunker. 622 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: The whole time. They referred to it as two schmucks 623 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: in a car. What movie are we talking about? Wait? 624 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: I got this one, Raymond. Alright, with the big answer 625 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: here we go number four. Before this actor won the 626 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: role of Dwight Shrut on the Office seth Rogan had 627 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: auditioned for the role. Who are we talking about Wilson? Yes, 628 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: they both got that one, all right. The last question 629 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: see if you can get the perfect score number five. 630 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: This song, written by Paul Schaeffer and performed by the 631 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: Weather Girls, was intended to be a gay anthem, much 632 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: like Y M c A. You know the name of 633 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: the song, it's man. Yes, all right? How did they do? Mango? 634 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: Our howls when astounding five for five, which means we'll 635 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: be sending them our top prize, a handwritten note to 636 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: their mom or boss, singing their praises congratulations, m thanks 637 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, that's awesome. Listeners, please check out rain 638 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: dot Works when you get a second, and thank you 639 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: guys so much for all the work you do and 640 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: for putting smiles on so many faces having us. Okay, well, 641 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: so we talked about fictional invisibility cloaks as well as 642 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: the closest things. We have two real life ones. But 643 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: there's one more thing I want to talk about, and 644 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: it's the psychological sort. It's kind of a psychological invisibility 645 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: quote I don't even know how that would work. Is 646 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: like a helmet that would block your brain waves or 647 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, that's a good guess, but no, 648 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 1: nothing like that. I'm actually talking about the great study 649 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: I came across about a I'm not called it invisibility 650 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: cloak illusion, and that's the name researchers at Yale University 651 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: came up with for our mistaken belief that we observe 652 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: others way more than others observe us. All Right, so 653 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: this is kind of like us pretending that maybe we're 654 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: under invisibility cloaks when we're out in public, if we're 655 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: grocery shopping or walking our dogs or something like that, 656 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: exactly pretty much any time we're in public, really, So 657 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: the team describes it this way, and they're abstract quote, 658 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: whether at a coffee shop, in a waiting room, or 659 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 1: riding the bus, people frequently observe the other people around them, 660 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: yet they fail to realize how much other people engage 661 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: in the same behavior, and that they therefore also are 662 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: being observed. Because it's logically impossible that people on average 663 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: are the subjects of observation more than they are objects 664 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: of it. The belief that one watches others more than 665 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: one is watched is an illusion that's pretty wild. I mean, 666 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: we feel like we're invisible, when the fact that we 667 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: observe others should tell us just the opposite of this. 668 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: And I really can't understand why we make this silly mistake, 669 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: because it's just that we're egomany acts, and you know, 670 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: we think we're the observant person and the only observant 671 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: person in a room. Yeah, that's definitely part of it. 672 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: But at least there's a good reason why we think 673 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: that way. And why is that? Well, the researchers at 674 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: Yale concluded that social norms compel our neighbors to pretend 675 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: to be busy with something else if it looks like 676 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: we might catch them watching us. All right, so we've 677 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: secretly scoped out the competition at a job interview, or 678 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: glanced around the waiting room and a doctor's office, and 679 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: just in case we need an alibi, we have a 680 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: magazine or something like that. It's funny that we all 681 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: assume we're the only ones who do this, though, right, so, 682 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: when it's actually so widespread and phenomena that it even 683 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: has its own name, researchers call it civil and attention. 684 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: I kind of like that, yeah, But my favorite part 685 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: of the study is this line from the conclusion, however 686 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: irresistible the sensation of being invisible, maybe it is not 687 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: to be trusted. That sounds exactly right, and it actually 688 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: makes it me think of this this other study I 689 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: read on the logic of the game Peekaboo. Apparently it's 690 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: this great display of the kind of nonsensical logic that 691 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: most kids share, namely the idea that you can make 692 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: yourself invisible by just covering your own eyes. So the 693 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: study was what like scientists rounded up a bunch of 694 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: toddlers and had this epic peekaboo session, Not exactly, but 695 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: but kind of. So the researchers at the University of 696 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 1: Cambridge had a group of three and four year olds 697 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: where I'm asked, and then they asked them whether they 698 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: could be seen by researchers or if they were invisible 699 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: to them. Then they asked the kids whether the researchers 700 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: would be able to see adults if those adults were 701 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 1: wearing eyemask like their's, and unsurprisingly, nearly all the kids 702 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: said they were hidden from view while their eyes were covered, 703 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: and most of them actually thought the imask would make 704 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: the adults invisible too, which is super cute. But did 705 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: the researchers have any ideas for why almost every child 706 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: subscribes to that weird logic. Well, actually, here's where things 707 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: get really interesting. And because when kids had their eyes covered, 708 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: they felt invisible, which fair enough, I mean, I think 709 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: we've all heard that before. But the researchers started to 710 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,240 Speaker 1: press them on what invisibility meant, and surprisingly, the kids 711 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: conceded that their bodies weren't actually hidden it all all 712 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: in the sixth so they admitted their bodies could still 713 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: be seen even when their eyes were covered. So what 714 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: do they mean by invisible? So that's the weirdest part 715 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: and where this gets a little deep here. So the 716 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: implication was that the kids felt it was their true 717 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: self that was being hidden from view. So basically, they 718 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: were saying, I know, you can still see my arms 719 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: and my legs and all that when my eyes are closed, 720 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: but you can't see me, which is which is pretty existential, 721 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, I know. It's it's like the children share 722 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: some natural distinction between you know, the physical body and 723 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: the metaphysical self. And I just find this stuff fascinating. 724 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: And you know, because most adults tend to think of 725 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 1: their consciousness and their body being joined together in some way, 726 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: and studies like this suggests that perception might be something 727 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: we only adopt or maybe decide on later in life. Yeah, 728 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: that's especially interesting when you think about how people always 729 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: say the eyes of the window to the soul, or 730 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: that eye contact Foster's understanding. I mean, in some ways, 731 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: covering your eyes really is like withdrawing yourself from the 732 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: world and making yourself invisible. Alright, well, Mango, you need 733 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: to keep those eyes open because there's only one thing 734 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: you can't hide from the PGG fact off exactly. All right, 735 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: here's something I hadn't thought about. Any lightbeam weapon you 736 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: see in the movies, from photon torpedoes to invisible rays, 737 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: they're all things you won't see coming so anytime as 738 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: sci fi heroes and a jet dodging those rays. None 739 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: of that's possible. You know that some of the things 740 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: you see in movies you just ruined all movies did so. 741 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: I want to know a figure who's basically become invisible 742 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: Jeremiah Dummer. Most people know. Yale University is named for 743 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 1: Elihu Yale, but Dumber probably did more for the early 744 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: university in terms of securing funds and building its reputation. 745 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: The problem is, Dumber College isn't a great name. Well, 746 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: Reindeer are good at spotting polar bears, Cameras aren't, so 747 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: when scientists decided to use infrared cameras to locate the bears, 748 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: they were stunned because polar bears are basically invisible to 749 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: infrared cameras too. While cameras can pick up the heat 750 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: off their nose and their breath, their blubber basically does 751 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: such a good job of trapping the heat within that 752 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: their fur is essentially the same temperature as all the 753 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: snow around it. So despite all the safety features and 754 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: cars with backup cameras and beeping sensors, people still back 755 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: up into lampos. So researchers at Kyo University in Japan 756 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: have come up with back seats that actually turned transparent 757 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: when you back up. Basically, it's a backup camera that 758 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: projects on the seats, but it does the trick of 759 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: seeming transparent and of course making the children sitting in 760 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: those seats disappear as another matter, definitely all right, here's 761 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 1: a fun one about not being seen. A building supervisor 762 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: in Spain skipped work for six years and kept collecting 763 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: his salary. You know the only reason he got caught. 764 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,760 Speaker 1: People got suspicious when he won an award for twenty 765 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: years of loyal service. In two thousand six, Magician David 766 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: Copperfield and his two assistants were walking down the street 767 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: when mugger's approached and demanded all their money, and all 768 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: the assistants forked over plane tickets, cell phones, and over 769 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: five dollars in cash. Copperfield used sleight of hand to 770 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: show the gun wielding robbers that his pockets were empty. 771 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 1: He reperformed the trick at the police station and wow 772 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: the officers, showing them he actually had a passport and 773 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: lost with cash on him the whole time. I know 774 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: he's such a performer, but he did help catch the 775 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: bad guys and I kind of love it all right. Well, 776 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: in that case, I'm gonna have to give you today's 777 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: championship felt. So that's it for today's episode. Thanks so 778 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: much for listening, Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius 779 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: is a production of how Stuff Works and wouldn't be 780 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things 781 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Christa McNeil does the 782 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and does 783 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,240 Speaker 1: the MIXI MIXI sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact 784 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: producer thing. Gave Bluesiers our lead researcher, with support from 785 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: the Research Army, including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas 786 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: Adams and Eve Jeff Cook gets the show to your ears. 787 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard, we 788 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: hope you'll subscribe, And if you really really like what 789 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,359 Speaker 1: you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review for us. 790 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: Do we do? We forget Jason? Jason who