WEBVTT - Drybar Founder Alli Webb on the High Cost of Fast Growth 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 Hello, Oddlots listeners. It is that time of year again. 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.280 Joe and I will be doing and ask me anything 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.240 episode and we need your questions. 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:09.640 Yep. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.160 If you want to ask me and Tracy a question 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:18.680 about anything, our careers, the podcasting industry, economics, finance, markets, business, 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.680 whatever it is, Tony, labor market, monopsony. If you just 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.439 want to hear your voice on the Odd Lots podcast, 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:26.520 you can send us in a question. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:31.080 That's right. The deadline for sending us questions is December thirteenth. 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.160 All you need to do is record a short voice 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.599 memo and then email it to us at Oddlots at 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:42.120 bloomberg dot net. Please include your name and your location. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:57.360 Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.240 I'm Joe Wisenthal. 0:00:58.760 --> 0:00:59.800 And I'm Tracy Alloway. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.560 Have you ever been to a dry bar? 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.240 I just I just thought i'd start this conversation as 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:07.240 simply as possible. 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.039 You don't mean a bar that isn't serving alcohol. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.679 No, but if there were, I would like that. But 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:13.679 those are. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.040 Called coffee shops, Joe, No, I have in fact been 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.279 to a dry bar. I remember when dry bars first 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.679 became a thing, and it was the sort of novel 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.840 concept that you could go someplace and have your hair 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.759 blow dried by a professional, sometimes while having a drink, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.640 or like watching silly movies on TV. And it was 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.960 it was different to how it had worked historically, because 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.160 normally you would, you know, maybe you would go to 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.920 your local hair salon to get a blow dry, or 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:43.800 often you would just have a blow dry after getting 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.000 your hair cut or something like that. But it became 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:47.240 this really big thing. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.840 Yeah, absolutely, And I remember, Okay, so I will say 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:52.800 I have never you've never been. I assume I have 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.160 never gotten I think, a proper blowout, but you know, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.480 I've gotten my hair done for TV, and so I 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.880 guess that's the closest gutten. But also I just sort 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.480 of remember when they started popping up, and it felt 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.399 like one of those businesses and business models that sort 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.080 of defined the twenty tens maybe or defined a certain era. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.360 And this sort of idea of the fusion of brick 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:19.480 and mortar with booking on an app and the proliferation 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.320 of new times of stores like that felt like a 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.520 big part of the twenty tens economy. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.280 Stores which were providing a service and also an experience 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.000 because I remember the experiential portion of it was a 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.679 big part of the offering. So again, you could go 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.639 get your hair blow dried for forty or sixty minutes 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.800 or however long it takes, and you could have a 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.160 cocktail while you did it, and a lot. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:44.880 Of these they did do it. You could have a cocktail. 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.200 Yes, oh my gosh, yes, that was a big like 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.040 part of it. And a lot of the stores, well, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.560 I'm thinking of one in particular because it is going 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.400 to be the topic of this podcast. The original dry 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.280 bar offered. You know, they would have movie screens like 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.120 the TVs built in and you could watch like rom 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.880 coms from the early two thousands. It was great. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.840 The experience economy, You're right, that was like such a 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:10.560 big part of the story where that was such a 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:12.840 big part of what people talked about people wanting to 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.480 have high quality experiences something above maybe some of the 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:21.239 old dingy physical retail physical service locations of the past. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.119 I do think that it really sort of redefined a category. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:28.200 And I'm interested, you know, like obviously that exploded during 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.920 a specific era in time, the rise of smartphones, low 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.480 interest rates, so vcs investing in fast growing concepts, of 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:41.440 various sort digital and physical, loose labor markets and the 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.840 ability to hire lots of people fast and so like. 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:48.840 Thinking about those business conditions, modern business conditions, how they've changed, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.640 Lessons learned from that period of course sort of a 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.760 go go era for fundraising and so forth. I think 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:55.440 there's still more to. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.920 Learn, absolutely. I mean things have changed, as you just mentioned, 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.760 but I think the desire for services slash experiences is 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:04.560 something that we still hear about today. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.880 Well, I'm excited. We really do have literally the perfect 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:09.680 guest to talk about all of these things. We are 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:11.920 going to be speaking with Ali Webb. She was the 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.400 founder of Drybar, also author of the New York Times 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.680 best selling book The Messy Truth How I Sold My 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.240 Business for millions but Almost Lost Myself amazing title, and 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.760 she's also gone on to found more businesses, including a 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.440 franchise chain of massage therapy location. So it sort of 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.719 sounds like Drybar for massages. So, Alie, thank you so 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.120 much for coming on. Odd lots thrilled to have you here. 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.400 Well, thanks for having me, and I love your conversation 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:40.240 about Drybar. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.200 You guys really nailed it. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.760 The title of your book is so good. How did 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:44.920 you almost lose yourself? 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.120 Well, I mean, if you know, the book really goes 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.719 into a lot of it, but it was a long 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.000 story but more or less, you know, building a business 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.679 over the last ten years, which is an incredible journey, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.440 and we definitely kind of you know, capture lightning in 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.640 a bottle and it was intoxicating and exhilarating and amazing. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.400 But you know, and a lot of my personal life 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.280 in the background kind of fell apart. You know, there 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.200 was divorce and rehab and depression and you name it. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.080 And so it was you know, a lot of like 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.560 navigating real life stuff alongside growing this you know, massive, 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.160 amazing business. And you know, it's kind of like if 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.040 like a business book met a memoir and had a baby. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.279 That's kind of what this book feels like to me anyways, 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.120 because it's really the coming together of the stories of 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.159 all the things that I learned and lessons and takeaways 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.520 from building a business as someone who didn't go to 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.960 college and doesn't have a you know, fancy business degree, 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.359 but then also like you know, the underpinnings of it 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.960 all and how it's you lose yourself. And if you 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.480 ask any entrepreneur, they will tell you the same thing. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.720 It's like, you know, you get so invested in this 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.080 thing that's like a baby to you, and you kind 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.320 of easily lose sight of a lot of other things 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.880 personally in your life and yourself, and you know, and 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.560 the response to it has been overwhelmingly positive and just 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.480 helped so many women and people are just relating to 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:07.040 it and like, oh my god, that's me. And I 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.000 felt like I was reading about me and that's my story, 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.919 which is fascinating to me that to put out stuff 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.760 that I don't think people talk about enough in such 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.120 a public content, and then for people to relate so 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.839 heavily to it has been, I mean, such a joy 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:20.599 and privilege for me. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.159 I should say, first of all, thank you for coming 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.840 up with this idea, because it has been enormously helpful 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.440 in my own life as someone who has like fairly untamable, 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.240 very thick hair that gets super poofy in the summer especially. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.320 And nowadays we take the concept of dry bars, I mean, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.960 it's gone beyond the brand, right you think about dry bar, 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.440 you think about a hair salon that is exclusively operating 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.520 like drop in blow drys basically, So it really became 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.880 a thing. But back when you founded the company, this 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:59.560 was obviously a new and novel concept. Maybe just to 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.960 begin with, could you talk about the business opportunity as 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.640 you saw it back then, Like what was the gap 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.920 in the market that you were able to identify? 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.200 Yeah, I mean, you know, I shouldn't say that. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.560 I wasn't, you know, a business person looking for a 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:14.720 hole in the marketplace. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:16.840 You know, although you know that's great if you are. 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:18.360 I just wasn't, you know. 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:20.920 I just felt like there was not a place to 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:22.800 go get a good blowout at an affordable price. 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.680 And I think I had felt that my. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.040 Entire life, you know, just as somebody who also has 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.040 hair that's curly and prison and hard to manage. I 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.160 was always kind of frustrated, and as a kid, I 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:33.800 would go to the hair slump and beg my mom 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:35.440 to blow out my hair. I mean, I was always 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.679 on the hunt, you know, and I was always into 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:39.680 my hair as a kid, and you know, so I 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.000 think on some level, subconsciously I wanted something like dry 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.400 bar my whole life, you know. And fast forward to 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.960 becoming a professional hairstylist in my early twenties and then 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:50.440 spending my life you know, so much of my life 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:51.880 doing hair and working in salons. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.120 I think I intuitively, instinctively. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.400 Knew that there had to be a better way to 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.800 get a blowout, you know, and there was pretty bad 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.239 choices out in the market, which was like the discount change, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.760 which I'm sure you've been to, or you know, your 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.120 fancy hair salon where they're charging you so much money 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.320 and upselling you on other things, and you know, there 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.120 just wasn't anything like it. But what ultimately led me 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.800 to Drybar was that I started a mobile blowout business. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.480 And when I was you know, I had been a 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:18.960 stay at home mom for a couple of years. 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:20.880 My boys were two and four, and I. 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.720 Started running around La and my niece on like Sarah 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.160 blowdrying my mommy friends really because that was the world 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:28.560 I was very much in at the time. 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.080 And you know, I posted an ad that said I'll come. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.040 Over and blow out your hair while you're baby sleeping, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.160 and it was I would charge forty bucks. And again 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:37.600 it was it was for me. It was like if 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:39.840 I don't charge that much money, more people will call me. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.360 You know. It wasn't a very like sophisticated business plan, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.280 but that's you know, what I hope. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:46.439 For, and sure enough they did. 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:50.319 And I realized during that because I got so busy 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.080 while I was operating my mobile business, because I was really, 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.000 you know, it was pretty good at what I was doing, 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:57.520 and because I was only charging. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.560 Forty bucks, like I was so crazy busy, you know. 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.600 That that's when like the kind of light bulb went 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.400 off for me and was like, wow, you know, at 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.120 the right price point, women will do this a lot, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.080 you know. And I, because I got so busy and 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.600 I was, you know, came to a crossroads. Am I 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.040 going to expand this thing mobilely or do I open 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:18.600 a brick and mortar instead of me going to them, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.080 have them come to me, which is obviously ultimately what 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.760 I decided to do. And I went to my brother 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:24.480 and asked him to help me with all of this. 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.679 But I just it was such a great learning even 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.760 though I didn't make any money at my mobile business, 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.200 but who cares, because it, you know, informed what would 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.960 become dry bar, you know, because I realized during that time, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.560 it all really crystallized for me that like, at the 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.560 right price point in a beautiful space, a great blowout 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.920 can be something and affordable luxury that women, do you know, 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.240 once a week, twice a week, whatever it is, and 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.800 we have plenty of clients who don't even watch their 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.079 own hair anymore. I mean, because the price point was right, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.960 the experience was great, and I realized nobody else was 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.160 doing anything like this, and so it was like a 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.200 prime opportunity that I really felt like I kind of 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:00.920 of stumbled into. 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.400 Can you talk about growth? 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.240 And when I think about twenty ten's business culture, I 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.960 think of magazine coverers were like this founder just raised 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.679 X million dollars, this founder just had a huge exit. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.160 This twenty eight year old is now a billionaire. 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.720 And in total addressable market, total. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.640 Addressable market, this just sort of like money growth culture. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.880 And you know, obviously as you as you talked about 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.720 there's a sort of presumably you are not the only 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.800 one that there was like a real dark side to 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.600 this and a personal cost, et cetera. But can you 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.920 talk a little bit more about the sort of decision 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.400 to take your idea and make it of you know, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.840 you raised money and you expanded it became a national 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.080 maybe international brand. Can you talk about that sort of 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.040 like choice to like, Okay, we have to go for this, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.120 and we have to grow big and we have to 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:55.040 deliver results. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.000 Yeah, and it's certainly a choice, and not everybody wants 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.080 to do that. I mean, you know, but you get 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.560 like a little taste of that, and it's hard to 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.480 walk away from it, you know. And I think we 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.040 all knew that we were onto something really special, and 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.240 it was we did to have to make some hard decisions, like, 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:16.680 you know, obviously, this is going to change our lives significantly. 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:17.120 Do we really want to go for this? 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.600 And you know, you know, there was so much demand, 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.920 there was so much request, you know, to open more 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.600 stores and more markets, and you know, and it was 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.079 going to be a whole thing, you know, to really 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.040 go for this and to really grow this thing. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.080 And we had to really lock arms and decide that that's. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:34.439 What we wanted to do because it was going to 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.560 really change our lives, which it did in every conceivable way. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.520 And you know, and I think I see lots of 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.600 businesses that decide not to do that, you know, to 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.800 grow at a more organic, slower pace. I mean obviously 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.760 for us, maybe not obviously, but for us to grow, 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.080 we were going to have to raise capital because even 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.760 though drive Bar was successful, our first two stores were successful, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.760 they didn't throw off enough money to grow the way 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.320 we wanted to, or the pace in which not all 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.400 I shouldn't say wanted to, I should say like the 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.079 pace that we needed to, because we knew a lot 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.160 of people were on our tail, and they were, you know, 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.839 there were so many copycats like popping up left and right, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.760 who humbly were just not nearly as good as we 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.880 were and didn't totally understand what we were doing, but saw, 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.440 you know, an opportunity. It's like you open up a 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.840 salon and throw some chairs in. It's like it's just 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.120 so not that simple. And so, you know, I think 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:25.959 we felt a little bit of pressure, like if we're 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.680 going to like really go for this, we got to 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.199 like move fast, and in order to move. 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:31.480 Fast, we need to raise money. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.640 And so then we raised like our first two or 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.320 three million with friends and family because they were and 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.840 this is also like not super common, but you know, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.199 friends and family were like practically throwing money at us 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.000 because they saw the writing on the wall that like 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:49.120 this was a great opportunity, you know. And and so yeah, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.200 I mean we you know, ultimately came together to make 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.120 this decision that we're going to really go for this 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.000 and grow this thing, and that meant so many other 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.800 things that I at the time I knew nothing about, 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:00.720 you know, about like how you grow and scale and 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.760 hiring and and all the complexities that go into that. 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.720 But there was a lot of pressure because if we 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:08.400 were going to do we had to do it now, 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.080 you know, and otherwise we were gonna we were gonna 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.240 fall behind. My brother found an investment banker and we 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.120 went out and did like a formal process in probably 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.320 year like two maybe, and you know, decided to you know, 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:24.240 to really, like no pun intended blow this thing up. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.800 Could you sorry, I'm a fan of puns. 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.400 Uh, could you have a lot of that? 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:29.760 Oh? 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.680 Good, excellent. Can you talk a little bit more about 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.079 the business model itself, because you know, I mentioned in 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.280 the intro like going to a dry bar was a 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.240 nice experience. It wasn't like you're going to a budget 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.640 hair salon and just getting this thing done for the 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.840 cheapest price. But at the same time, the price you 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.800 were charging four blowouts was very reasonable, especially when compared 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.200 to a more higher end salon. So how did you 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.000 actually contain those costs? Like where did the savings actually 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.160 we come from. 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.360 Well, I mean, it wasn't easy, and our margins were 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.600 razor thin to your point, because the amount of money 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.800 we spent on the build out, you know, to make 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.560 it look the way it looked and to make it 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.080 feel high end, we just not have the high end 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:14.600 price tag. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.000 The name of the game for us was volume. Like 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:19.760 I'll see there's another ton. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.880 You we all of these are flying right over Joe's heading. 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:26.520 No, no, I got I got that one. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.000 You know, we have in like volume, big hair. So 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:30.360 anyway we need. 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.400 Closer to God, right, isn't that? 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.120 That's right? That's right, and it is a true statement. 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.800 Don't let anybody tell you different. So we knew that we. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.240 Needed to do a ton of blowouts to day, and 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.600 like just to give you an example of. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.480 What I mean by a ton, like we thought in 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:45.600 our Brentwood. 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.560 Location, which was our first location that had eight chairs, 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.000 we thought, you know, if we do thirty to forty 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.560 blowouts a day, like that's a good business and whatever. 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:55.680 We completely underestimated the demand and we were doing more 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.240 like eighty ish blowout today, which very quickly turned to 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.080 one hundred blowout today once we were fully staffed, you know, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.640 So we were open from seven am to like nine pm, 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.240 so you know, you could theoretically do that. So once 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.080 we realized that, you know, we could do so many blowouts, 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.040 were open seven days a week, you know, twelve hours 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.239 a day, that we could we could theoretically do it. 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.280 It really was about volume. We had to get those 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.840 numbers in in order to make the business work, which, 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.920 by the way, didn't always work because, as you might imagine, 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.920 like you know, supply and demand was a real thing, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.520 and for us, the supply was hairstylusts and it was 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.800 hard to get extremely hard to get great hairstylists in 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.400 and it's just an interesting market. And having been I'm 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.720 a hairstylist myself, it's like our strengths are our weaknesses. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.120 Like I'm a little flaky, I'm not the most you know, 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.520 I'm usually late to most things, and so our most 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.240 hairstylists not all, but you know, and just getting hair 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.960 stylists who were okay, just doing blowouts all day long, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.520 you know. Understandably, so many stylists wanted to grow their 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.440 business and do cuts in color, and drybar was more 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.600 like a stuff for them, not like a destination, you know, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.160 And so that part of it was really hard getting 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.880 and training stylists, you know, to the level of which 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.800 we wanted them to be, you know, all of that. 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.320 So it was a tough business model in terms of 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.320 like getting that to all work. And you know, we 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.600 in some stores and sometimes we did it better than others. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.840 We had a gajillion different strategies on recruiting and staffing 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.440 and all of that, but the business model, you know, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.040 only worked if we did x amount of blowouts per 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.920 day per store, you know, which we were, for the 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:35.640 most part, able to really pull off. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.080 I'm glad you mentioned recruitment and training because I got 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.280 the sense that this was kind of important for the 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.160 business model as well. So talk to us a little 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.080 bit more about how you identified the right hair stylists 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.359 for the business. As you mentioned, it might not be 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.600 that every stylist wants to spend their entire day just 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.600 blow drying hair. And then secondly, how much of the 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.640 labor force was flexible? Was everyone working full time or 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.040 were people coming in and doing it for like three 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.680 or four hours to sort of add on to their 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:21.920 main job. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.040 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.040 You know, we tried to be as nimble and flexible 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.840 as possible as stylists because of that reason, Like you know, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.000 it is very labor intensive, and I really always understood that, 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:33.960 Like you know, some stylists really loved it and would 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.399 and could do like a six seven, eight hour shift. 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.520 Other stylists were like, you know, I can't do this 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.439 for more than a few hours. Like I get it, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.959 no problem, you know, especially in the early days, I 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.480 was like, I will take whatever you can get. 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.080 If you can only come in and do four. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.439 Blowouts, fine, you know, Like it was that diet and 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:50.840 the dyer is not the right word, but it was 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.800 that like crazy and busy that and of course I 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.119 was doing tons of blowouts in those early days to 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.800 accommodate people. I would sit or stand at the first 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.040 chair and blow hair and be able to like manage. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.399 The front desk. I mean that was those were crazy times. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.400 But you know, so we were really flexible in terms 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.359 of what stylists what they wanted to do and how 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.080 many days a week they wanted to work, because we 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.560 knew we had to be in order like to get 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.560 people to like it was like a hodgepodge of stylists 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.320 getting them in and then you know, and then the 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.720 other big challenge, as you might imagine, is like making. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.800 Sure that those stylists are you know, are really great. 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.840 And that was the other thing, is like, you know, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:27.560 there was there was. 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.480 Like a subset of stilists who'd you know, been doing 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.000 this for a long time and they just you know, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:33.760 they were great and we didn't need to do a 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:34.439 lot of training. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.120 And then there were stylists who were newer out of beauty. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.480 School and they didn't have a lot of training, and 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:40.240