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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Cat

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Speaker 1: and I am the host. And if you are wondering

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Speaker 1: what couch Talks is, it is the special bonus episode

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Speaker 1: of You Need Therapy Podcast that comes out every single Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: where I answer questions that you guys sent into me

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Speaker 1: and you can send those two Catherine at you Need

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Speaker 1: Therapy podcast dot com. Now, before we get into the

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Speaker 1: question today, I want to remind everybody has always that

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Speaker 1: although I'm a therapist and I'm answering questions, I'm giving

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Speaker 1: some feedback. This podcast does not serve as a replacement

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Speaker 1: or substitute for actual mental health services. So if you're

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Speaker 1: new again, this is where I answer questions that you

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Speaker 1: guys send in and I try to do one a week.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I do two if I'm doing smaller, quicker ones,

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Speaker 1: but usually it's one a week. We always keep them

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Speaker 1: on anymous and today we have a good one, so

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Speaker 1: let's get right into it. Hey, Cat, I recently reconnected

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Speaker 1: with my cousins on my dad's side of the family,

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Speaker 1: and I have received a letter in the mail from

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Speaker 1: the oldest about how my soul is doomed if I

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Speaker 1: cannot become vegan by January. He follows the teachings of

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Speaker 1: some master guru who owns a bunch of vegan chain

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Speaker 1: restaurants around the US. The letter was alarming, especially since

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Speaker 1: he outlined why he wasn't in a cult. My family

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Speaker 1: is labeling him as a wacko. But I can clearly

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Speaker 1: see how alarming this is. I want to reach out.

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Speaker 1: I don't want him isolated from the family. Even further,

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure what to do. Ps I feel

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Speaker 1: like all my cult education should have prepared me for

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Speaker 1: this moment. Okay, so I actually contacted this person. I

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Speaker 1: got a little bit more information about what was going on,

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Speaker 1: and okay, so if you are a avid follower of

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Speaker 1: the podcast, you know that last year I went on

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Speaker 1: a deep dive into cults and I have a full

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Speaker 1: episode of brainwashing and the power of cults if anyone

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Speaker 1: is interested in learning more about that. In general, I

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Speaker 1: also highly recommend the book Cultish, which is about the

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Speaker 1: language of cults and talks about what makes a cult

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Speaker 1: to cult and what makes a cult dangerous. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us I think that cults are bad

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Speaker 1: because we know them to have harmed a lot of

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Speaker 1: vulnerable people, and a lot of cults are bad. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of things can also be labeled and

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Speaker 1: can fit into the cult category that aren't bad and

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Speaker 1: can be helpful. We're all part of cult e type

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Speaker 1: situations regardless. When we hear the word cult, it comes

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Speaker 1: with a really negative connotation. And I think this letter

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Speaker 1: was really scary for somebody to read, and it felt

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Speaker 1: like the person was out of touch with reality for

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Speaker 1: some reason or another that used to be in touch

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Speaker 1: with reality. Now, this question is not really about cults

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Speaker 1: in general, so I want to start with that. It's

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Speaker 1: more about how do I respond to this letter from

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Speaker 1: a family member who seems to maybe be in a cult.

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Speaker 1: I think a very common reaction from people towards those

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Speaker 1: who may be in these kinds of groups, whether that's

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Speaker 1: a cult or just a group that feels very strange

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Speaker 1: and out of touch of reality, or in this case,

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Speaker 1: a group that feels very strict, like this person is

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Speaker 1: saying your your soul is doomed if you you can't

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Speaker 1: be vegan. I think a very common reaction from receiving

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Speaker 1: information from somebody in one of those groups is to

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Speaker 1: say that they are crazy or they've lost their mind,

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Speaker 1: and then to like stay away, which I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: is wrong. We're just gonna talk about that. I think

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Speaker 1: it's really really important here to mention that often when

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Speaker 1: somebody's behavior is being called crazy or wacky or psychotic,

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Speaker 1: it's because their behavior is crazy or wacky or psychotic.

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Speaker 1: But those terms are used in this very a judgmental

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Speaker 1: and damaging way rather than helpful and descriptive. Calling somebody

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Speaker 1: psychotic and dismissing them is not helpful. But if we

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Speaker 1: actually pay attention to what does somebody mean psychotic mean?

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Speaker 1: Because if we're calling somebody psychotic and they are, and

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Speaker 1: then we're dismissing them, we are ignoring a mental health crisis.

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Speaker 1: Calling somebody psychotic isn't supposed to be a slur. It's

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Speaker 1: a descriptive word used to identify symptoms of a mental

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Speaker 1: health diagnosis. Those who are having psychotic breaks or somebody

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Speaker 1: who's experiencing psychosis delusions, they very much just look like

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Speaker 1: they're going mad. They're out of touch with reality. So

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Speaker 1: this letter sounds like the person who wrote it is

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Speaker 1: a little out of touch with reality. Saying that you're

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Speaker 1: going to die and your soul is going to be

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Speaker 1: doomed if you do not become a vegan. Is something

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Speaker 1: that feels very out of touch with reality, but to

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Speaker 1: this person it feels very true. So that person is

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Speaker 1: not If they are experiencing a mental health crisis, that

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Speaker 1: person is not going to get any better just by

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Speaker 1: some been like you're crazy and then turning the other cheek.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you have to get involved. That's not

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying at all. But when we call people

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Speaker 1: crazy and then we just ignore them when like really,

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Speaker 1: actually maybe they are having psychotic features and that's not

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Speaker 1: so much there's something like inherently wrong with them. It's

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Speaker 1: there's something going on with their mind. There is an

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Speaker 1: illness in their mind, and mental illness like I just

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Speaker 1: it's I even get tongue tied, as you can tell

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Speaker 1: talking about it. Because mental illness is a thing. We

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Speaker 1: have a sickness in our brain, just like physical illness

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Speaker 1: is a thing. There is a sickness, there's something in

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Speaker 1: our physical body. And it is so hard for people

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Speaker 1: to wrap their brains around our own brains around the

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Speaker 1: fact that when somebody is acting out of touch with reality,

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Speaker 1: if their brain is not working correctly. Maybe there is

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Speaker 1: something going on with their brain. To me, I'm like

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Speaker 1: trying to think of a way to compare it to

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Speaker 1: a physical illness. It's almost like if somebody is having

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Speaker 1: a seizure and we just ignore it, we're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that person time to seizure, weird, when that might be

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Speaker 1: signaling that they have some other illness happening in their body.

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Speaker 1: There there's something going on, they have epilepsy or some

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Speaker 1: other health condition. If somebody has a fever, that is

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Speaker 1: signaling that they have a physical illness. Like that, those

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Speaker 1: are symptoms of an illness, and so are psychotic features

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Speaker 1: and delusions and things like that. Those are symptoms of

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Speaker 1: actual illnesses. But the illnesses and our mind not like

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Speaker 1: our immune system. Although I will say physical illness, mental health,

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Speaker 1: all of that actually is tied up and connected to

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Speaker 1: immune system. But that's a conversation for another day. Now

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Speaker 1: when it comes to this situation, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's actually going on. I'm not diagnosing this person with

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Speaker 1: any kind of illness because I don't know them and

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Speaker 1: I don't have enough information, and also that's not what

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Speaker 1: I do on this podcast. But I think it warrants

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Speaker 1: concerned based on what I have seen, what I have read,

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Speaker 1: and again, like I said, I was able to read

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Speaker 1: this letter and what the this person that wrote in

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Speaker 1: is referencing the actual letter they received is very alarming

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Speaker 1: from my perspective as well. And who knows. There could

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Speaker 1: be a million things that are going on. They could

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Speaker 1: be blackmail to be sending these letters from somebody. They

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Speaker 1: could be being controlled by somebody, or being threatened in

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Speaker 1: some other way. There's a lot of things that could

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Speaker 1: be going on other than them just being, for a

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Speaker 1: lack of a better way to describe this, in quotes,

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Speaker 1: a wacko, and they're just being their weird selves. Because

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Speaker 1: if we think about the term weird, I just have

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Speaker 1: to say this for a second. We think about when

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Speaker 1: we call somebody weird, that mean they're different than us.

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Speaker 1: It's very different for me to say, oh, that person

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Speaker 1: is weird, when yeah, that might be judgmental, but maybe

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Speaker 1: they just like possibly dress in a way that I

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Speaker 1: don't prefer to dress, or they like a type of

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Speaker 1: music that I think is not great. Like, there is

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Speaker 1: a very large spectrum of being weird, and we can

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Speaker 1: use a lot of words like crazy and wacky and

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Speaker 1: whatever to describe a lot of things that are actually

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Speaker 1: very different. So somebody being a wacko, I might say

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Speaker 1: that because they like to put I don't know why

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Speaker 1: this is coming to my head, but they like to

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Speaker 1: put jelly on every single thing that they eat, and

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Speaker 1: might be like, they're wacky. That doesn't mean they're having

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Speaker 1: a psychotic break. But I also can use that same

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Speaker 1: term to describe somebody who is having a psychotic break.

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Speaker 1: And so I think it's very important to be intentional

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Speaker 1: and aware of the differences because this type of weird

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Speaker 1: behavior warrants a definite concern. Versus, if somebody likes to

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Speaker 1: put jelly on everything they eat, I think that they're

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Speaker 1: okay for the most part, unless there's other things that

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Speaker 1: are also going on as well. But if that's the

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Speaker 1: only thing they're doing that is out of the ordinary,

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Speaker 1: then I don't think we need to like do a

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Speaker 1: welfare check or anything now, because we don't have enough

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Speaker 1: information to identify what's going on here, and regardless, we

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Speaker 1: don't have control over anyone other than ourselves. Little reminder,

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Speaker 1: I think what I would encourage somebody in this situation

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Speaker 1: to do is to ask what response feels congruent with

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Speaker 1: their moral compass and reality. So I say reality because

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Speaker 1: we may want to save somebody or we might want

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Speaker 1: to fix something, but realistically we have to look at

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Speaker 1: how little power we actually have over other people's lives,

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Speaker 1: although we can make a difference by our our behaviors

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Speaker 1: at times. So I might start with looking at what

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Speaker 1: I want to do here and what I actually can do.

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Speaker 1: I might want to save somebody, but what can I do?

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Speaker 1: I can express concern, and so again look at what

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Speaker 1: would fit within your moral compass and your values. Does

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Speaker 1: it feel in line with with me to ignore and

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Speaker 1: just protect myself? Does it feel in line with me

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Speaker 1: to cause behavior crazy and make fun of him? Does

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Speaker 1: it feel in line with me to respond to the

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Speaker 1: letter sharing my feelings or thoughts? Does it feel in

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Speaker 1: line with me to set a boundary and and cut

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Speaker 1: off communication with this person? So looking at what I

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Speaker 1: want to do, look at what I actually can do,

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Speaker 1: while looking at what feels in line with my moral compass.

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Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of options that

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Speaker 1: you can do in this specific situations, and they aren't

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Speaker 1: all right, they aren't all wrong. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: going to be better suited with you than others. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that you don't want this person isolated from the

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Speaker 1: family even further, which I really appreciate because I think

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Speaker 1: this person is really thinking about this at a deeper

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Speaker 1: level than a lot of people might think about this,

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Speaker 1: just because it's easier just to be like, like I said,

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Speaker 1: you're crazy. Bye. So you said you don't want this

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Speaker 1: person to be isolated from the family even further. Is

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Speaker 1: there a way for you to keep in contact with

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Speaker 1: him that does not feel like it then puts you

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Speaker 1: or your family, or anybody in your life at risk.

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Speaker 1: Because sometimes also if if there is a mental health

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Speaker 1: crisis going on, there could be some danger involved as well.

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Speaker 1: So you might not want to put yourself in the

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Speaker 1: line of fire. But there are people that are trained

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Speaker 1: and they do this for a living. So I am

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Speaker 1: not a firefighter, so I probably am not going to,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, run into a burning building to

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Speaker 1: try to put out a fire that has taken over

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Speaker 1: a home. But I might call the fire department to

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Speaker 1: come help me do that. So is there a way

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Speaker 1: for you to express that you care? Is there a

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Speaker 1: way for you to express concern for him that feels

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Speaker 1: safe to you? If that's what you come down to.

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Speaker 1: If it comes down to I want to express some

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Speaker 1: kind of concern for this person, is there a way

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Speaker 1: for you to do that that would be safe and

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Speaker 1: could be the most powerful in the little power that

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Speaker 1: we have. Personally, if I got a letter like this

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Speaker 1: from a friend or a family member, I would reach

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Speaker 1: out to the people closest to them to check in,

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Speaker 1: to express concern, to ask if there's something that you

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Speaker 1: need to know, or maybe to give information that the

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Speaker 1: people around them might not know. That is what I

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Speaker 1: would do. You can't tell them you're experiencing delusions in

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Speaker 1: psychosis from a distance, right, They're not going to be

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Speaker 1: able to receive that because those things are very real

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Speaker 1: to them. Now take that with a grain of salt.

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Speaker 1: This is not for everybody, but generally, when somebody is

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Speaker 1: going through something that is their reality, they're out of

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Speaker 1: touch with reality. So when you tell them that, that

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Speaker 1: doesn't really make very much sense. Just like if I

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Speaker 1: tell you that you're you're crazy and you're not crazy,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, I'm not crazy. Well, if you

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Speaker 1: tell somebody who's crazy, And again when I say crazy,

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Speaker 1: I mean how we sometimes can perceive somebody who's experiencing

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Speaker 1: the psychosis, if we just tell them that, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be like, no, I'm not, because that is their reality,

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Speaker 1: which is a confusing hard thing to sometimes just say.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that even made sense when I

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Speaker 1: said it, but I hope I hope that it did.

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Speaker 1: And so is there a way for you to express

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Speaker 1: concern to the people closest to that person? Lastly, what

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Speaker 1: I would say if you really are concerned, and this

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Speaker 1: is for anybody ever, if you're concerned for somebody's immediate

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Speaker 1: danger and well being, you can issue a welfare check

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to be a mental health professional

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Speaker 1: of any kind to do that. I would google how

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Speaker 1: to do that in your area, because it's going to

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Speaker 1: be different depen on where you live. But I can

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Speaker 1: just google a welfare check that would send a trained professional,

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Speaker 1: whether that's a police officer that has been through crisis

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Speaker 1: training or a crisis worker or something like that, to

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Speaker 1: check on the person that I'm concerned about to see

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Speaker 1: if they are in danger or not. So you can

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Speaker 1: do that, it's not cost you anything. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times I feel like the reason people don't do that

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Speaker 1: is they're afraid that the person is going to get

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Speaker 1: mad at them. And what I can tell you is one,

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Speaker 1: they're anonymous, and two, I think if you weigh the

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Speaker 1: options here, um, somebody being mad at me versus I'm

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Speaker 1: concerned for somebody's safety, that's going to trump that because

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Speaker 1: if their safety is in danger in the long run,

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Speaker 1: that is the most important thing versus somebody being upset

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Speaker 1: with you over being concerned with them. So that's something

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Speaker 1: that you can do. Now. As I kind of close

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Speaker 1: this out, I know that this question was super specific

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Speaker 1: and more specific than some what I want people to hear,

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Speaker 1: and kind of what I'm saying are two things or

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Speaker 1: a couple of things. One, if we're seeing symptoms of

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Speaker 1: something rather than throwing that off and just ignoring it

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Speaker 1: and laughing it off or throwing judgment. And this can

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Speaker 1: be with anything. Think about how people view symptoms of

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Speaker 1: drug abuse or um eating disorders. It's like, oh, they're

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Speaker 1: they're just doing drugs and they're just doing this and

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Speaker 1: they're blah blah blah, and we like label them as

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Speaker 1: bad people. And I'm like, well, maybe the reason that

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Speaker 1: they are stealing drugs from the neighbor might be because

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Speaker 1: they have an addiction, and that's a mental health disorder,

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Speaker 1: not an indication that this person is inherently bad or wrong.

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Speaker 1: And there also is a solution and there is help.

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Speaker 1: So if I'm concerned about somebody's behavior, first of all,

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Speaker 1: why am I concerned about it? I'm concerned about somebody's

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Speaker 1: behavior if it feels like they're doing something that's dangerous

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Speaker 1: or wrong. Rather than just writing them off as bad people,

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Speaker 1: what would happen if we started instead looking at people

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Speaker 1: as inherently good and noticing the behaviors that don't fit

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Speaker 1: with that, and looking at those as symptoms of a

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Speaker 1: problem that is not the person. You know, the problem

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Speaker 1: is the problem. The problem isn't the person. So I

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Speaker 1: want people to hear that. And then the other thing

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Speaker 1: I want people to hear is there are ways to

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Speaker 1: express care and help that aren't always directly reaching out

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Speaker 1: to somebody. And again, we have to look at what

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Speaker 1: are the what are the our main concerns making sure

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Speaker 1: somebody isn't mad at us? Right, it's a little codependency

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Speaker 1: coming out or taking care of people's immediate life learning needs.

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Speaker 1: So that's going to do it for me today. I

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Speaker 1: hope that you guys, as always get something out of

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Speaker 1: these short little conversations. And of course if you have

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Speaker 1: any questions that you want to send in, any feedback, anything,

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Speaker 1: you can send that to Catherine at You Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can also follow me on Instagram

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Speaker 1: at cat dot de fata and for more mental health

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Speaker 1: based information and content at you Need Therapy Podcast. I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys are having the day you need to

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Speaker 1: have and I will talk to you on Monday