WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 195 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.080 Also media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.720 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.400 Hello, and welcome to It could happen here, and it could. 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:35.200 My name is Antre Siege. I'm also Antisom on YouTube 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.880 and I'm here once again. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.120 With James James Stout. People have said I'd never say 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.040 my last name and they can't work out who I am, 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:44.880 so I guess I'll do that more. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.880 Welcome James Stout, Thank you so. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.960 And I mean this is an unfortunately common part enough 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:54.840 thought for me, but I've been thinking about just how 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.560 totalizing this system feels. And it's like everywhere you're ten, 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.960 you know, walking down the street, look at the city, 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.720 a pollution, Every inch of land there's been claimed by 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.320 the system, every bit of you know, the way you 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.560 live and operate just feels like it's been manipulated and 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.959 controlled in some way. And so that's really what I 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.880 want to highlight in today's episode, the infrastructure of this 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:28.160 system and how it's used to control, you know, both 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.840 in terms of the physical infrastructure and the digital infrastructure 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:37.000 of our lives. So I suppose to start off, i'd ask, 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.520 when was the last time that you noticed infrastructure shaping 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:41.200 your choices? 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.199 That's interesting, I mean a lot in the certain ways, 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.720 right Like, like the infrastructure of labor shaped a lot 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:54.200 of my choices, Like I have to work a lot 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.920 to make ends meet, right like, which means I can't 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.920 do sometimes things I want to do, Like there are 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.000 mutual aid efforts I'd like to participate in more that 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.720 I'm not able to because I have this obligation to 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.800 capital m I guess that's one of them. 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:11.200 Or just like the. 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.920 Physical infrastructure limiting the people I get to see, right like, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:16.840 there are places I love to go out there with 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.440 some really nice vegan places in Tijuana that I don't 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.720 go to as much as i'd like because someone has 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.120 built a giant wall and then another giant wall next 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:26.720 to it, and then stationed a bunch of people with 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:28.920 guns to check if I have the right piece of 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.760 paper to go back and forth to somewhere that otherwise 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.160 I could rude my bike to. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:39.680 Yeah, borders are very unfortunate and big one. Yeah, it's 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.919 really frustrating, and I think that's one of the most 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:48.519 obviously detrimental aspects of physical infrastructure that yeah, set of 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.440 manipulates our lives today. I think on the digital level, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.720 there's things like just the way that social medias lead out. 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.280 I think it really controls like how much time you 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:03.600 spend on it, much energy you invest into and of 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.320 course even just our neighborhoods, our environments, our cities with 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.080 they laid out, it tends to affect you know, just 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.480 how often we go out, where we go, what needs 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.679 a transportation we use, and I mean with physical infrastructures concerned, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.000 and how it's been used to control people. That goes 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:25.160 way back into history. You know, coloneal powers often built 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:30.040 transport infrastructure in like roads and railways and ports with 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.680 the very explicit purpose of extracting raw materials from the 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.440 colonized territories to get to the imperial core. You know, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:39.600 the systems we're not designed to say over the mobility 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.280 needs of the local populations. They usually create a direct 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.640 line from the mines and the plantations and the resource 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.800 rich areas to the coastal ports where they could be exported. 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:50.200 Yeah. 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:54.320 Yeah, And so for the British and perialists and lovers 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.200 of empire, they often brag that, you know, we built ports, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.520 and we built bridges, and we built roads, and we 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.800 built really as well. It's the same pattern everywhere. You know, 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.480 in India it was used to move cotton, tea and 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.360 other resources from the interior to the ship and ports. 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.920 In Ghana it was used to move gold and cuckoo. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.480 But in any case, it wasn't to interconnect within the city, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.040 you know, the actual economic self determination of the people. Yeah, 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:21.320 in that area, it didn't matter. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:22.440 Yeah, very much too. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.960 I think about this, like, I cycled around Rwanda in 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.440 twenty twenty, which is an interesting time to be traveling, 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.720 but I remember riding around them. The Kunar Rwanda word 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.280 for dirt road is iqitaka, right, and so that's what 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.240 mostly So we cycled on these dirt. 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:37.560 Roads and it was lovely. 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:37.800 You know. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.760 We'd go through the village and everyone would come out 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.200 and wave at you, and like the little kids would 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.880 come out and be like what the fuck is this bicycle? 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.200 And it was kind of fun, you know, And then 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.640 we we'd find someone. It's not really set up for 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:50.719 like restaurants, so you just find someone and pay them 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.080 an amount upon which you agreed and they would give 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:53.640 you some food. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:55.520 And that was a beautiful experience. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.520 And then there were these roads that they call Chinese 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.719 roads that just go directly from the mind to the 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.719 place where the raw material can be extracted. Because between 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.280 the China was doing a lot of what you could 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.320 generously call foreign direct investment or like neo colonialism in 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.960 lots of places in Africa, right, And it was the 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:19.920 contrast between those two traveling experiences was so profound, Like 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.720 obviously you travel faster on the smooth roads, but like 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.960 you don't immerse yourself in the human experience of meeting 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.680 and sharing that travel with people, which is why I 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.279 do these things in the first place. With just like 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:37.039 such a profound contrast. I remember it really striking me 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:37.520 at the time. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:43.040 Yeah, I mean, and this is what empires and rulers 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.880 in general have been doing, right, They they wield their 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.240 control over labor to set things up in a way 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.919 that fulfills their interests. Yeah, and then you know, even 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.720 when people key in some sort of nominal independence and 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:04.840 they inherit these colonial infrastructure grids, or you know, they 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.520 have investments coming in and they have set up they 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.000 have these companies, it's a multinational companies setting up infrastructure. 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:13.280 It still continues, you know. 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:18.640 The sort of extractivist and top down nature of the 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.240 way the infrastructure is set up. You know, it doesn't 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.880 reimagine all of them, don't reimagine the logic of what 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.839 came before. You're in part for lack of funding and 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.880 in part for lack of imagination. And so in a 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.040 lot of places, the peripheral regions in these countries are 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.480 still lacking in connectivity. They're still lagging behind the rest 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.200 of the country. They still don't have access to some 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.799 of the basic social services and resources that the urban 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.839 core has because you know, the urban rural divide in 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:52.040 many ways mimics the corporate free divide on. 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:53.279 The international stage. 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.520 Yeah, and then you have these neo colonial development aid 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.920 programs coming in with the IMF for the World Band, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.080 and you have even more infrastructure projects. So just repeat 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.280 this extractive pattern under the ban of development. Of course, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.680 real development will be connecting people encouraging people to participate 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.840 in society and distribute opportunity. But the infrastructure that tends 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.640 to be set up is more so for consolidating state 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:25.400 power and channeling the movement of people in predictable, survailable ways, 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:42.400 and prioritizing access for certain populations while excluding or marginalizing others. So, 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.920 of course infrastructure development has the capacity to help people. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.320 You know, it can increase accessibility, can make people's lives easier, 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.320 and it can also just manage and contain them and 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.520 varied sources. And we see a lot more examples of 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:01.240 this sort of infrastructure control when you look at the 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:06.360 class and racial dynamic within societies. Those sorts of divisions 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.520 and separations and stratifications they of course manifest physically. You know, 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.880 in the US you had literal segregation areas that were 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.960 designated for black people, listening for white people, water fountains 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.000 and neighborhoods and all these different things. You also had 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:26.320 redlining policies, and nowadays you have spaces that were redlined 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:33.480 and thus lacked investment, and thus when neglected infrastructurally due 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.719 to that racial and economic inequality, those spaces are now 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.440 right for development in the form of gentrification because the 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.200 property is so cheap, so undervalued, and so the people 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.520 who made something out of that lack are now being 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:50.280 pushed out. And in South Africa, I mean, up until recently, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:56.400 these are partid era policies created townships that were deliberately 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.280 located far from white urban centers, there were lacked and 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:05.520 services and transit options, and physically reinforced the racial division 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.360 of that society. And even today around the world you 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:15.959 have human zoning laws and transit access limitations and public 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:22.480 holes and policies that recreates historical class divisions and racial divisions, 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.720 ethnic divisions. And I'm sure you and your with all 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.319 of the I mean, every time I talked to you 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.240 have like a new travel story to tell. I'm sure 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:30.719 you've witnessed something like this. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.920 Yeah, I was just thinking of how like I was 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.240 thinking of like if we think about the Syrian state 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.520 as a contiguous colony, right, like it's called the Syrian 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.440 Arab Republic, but not all the people who are contained 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.400 within the territory in which it once claimed the monopoly 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:47.360 on violence. 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.000 Are Arab people. 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.160 So we think of the parts of the North and 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:56.680 East Syria majority Kurdish areas as colonized. We can see 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:58.400 that reflected in the infrastructure. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:09:58.680 Right. 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.800 Part of that is, as you say, this sort of 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.040 lack of investment. But then also part of it is 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:11.600 every government funded building, right, Schools, hospitals, the buildings you go. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.120 In to do the paperwork you have to do to 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.080 exist under the state. 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.480 They're set up like strong points, Like they're designed with 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:20.800 a big kind of wall and then a big courtyard 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:26.199 and then thick exteriors like they're designed to be militarily 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.559 defensible against the people they're supposed to serve. Right, Like 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.600 the school is designed to be used as a fucking 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.680 machine gun position. And once you see it, you see 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.320 it everywhere, and you think about the nature of the 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:44.080 state that designs infrastructure with that explicitly in mind, Right, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.200 it's fascinating. The other example I think of is like 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.040 Chris Elam's done some fantastic writing on the development of Barcelona, 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.840 and you have like the unregulated working class for Raval, 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.880 like this area just next to the Rambler where the 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.520 streets are just fucking small, a winding and crazy and 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.680 there's never not laundry kind of over you know, over 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.000 your head, and it's a very I like to go there. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:08.520 It's a place that I enjoy. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.840 And then you have the ijumpler, which means extension where 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.880 the infrastructure is extremely like it's probably one of the 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.600 earlier grid cities that you would see, right. And the 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:23.199 idea was that like these these overcrowded kind of what 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.080 were in the nineteen twenties and thirty slums would be 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.760 like where the working class would be kept. And the 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.760 working class, to be clear, were like seen as there 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.319 was a colonial relationship between the boys who are the 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.720 working class in Barcelona because most of the working class 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.680 were not Catalan. They would actually put signs at the 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.520 top of these working class areas saying like Mutia begins here, right, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.520 these are the Musians and people from Mustia, the people 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.200 from outside of Catalonia, and Catalonia stops here where the 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.800 working class exist. That later reflected in the working class 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.440 self identity, like it came to refer to the Ravala's Chinatown, 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.520 not specifically because of a high concentration of people from 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.840 from the Chinese diaspora, but because they've seen Chicago gangster 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.840 movies where Chinatown was like the area where the gangsters were, 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:12.520 and they were like, yeah, we're fucking gangster, like we're 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:14.040 going to call it Chinatown that you want to come 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.319 in here, will fucking shoot you. Like I thought that 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.000 was really fascinating, like response to the way that they 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:23.880 have been alienated by infrastructure. 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.560 Yeah, I mean, and that's why when you when you 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:30.720 look at the sort of claims that, oh, you know, 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.160 it's just it's just roads, it's just zonating, it's just 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.200 a city grid, it's just an embassy, it's just a 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:44.000 government office. It's like no, these sorts of spaces, these buildings, 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.960 it's infrastructure could never be neutral. Yeah, and when you 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.200 see that, you can't unsee it because you look at 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.120 the amount of decisions it would have had to have 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.640 gone into, you know, some of the examples you mentioned 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.640 or the examples I mentioned, you know, the design decisions 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.720 and say, okay, we're gonna put this rule would hear 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.920 instead of here, Yeah, we're going to use this material 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.920 instead of this material. Who you employ to build those 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.360 structures that infrastructure also as an impact in the surrounding area. 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.880 Are you employing people within the community, employing people outside? 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:20.400 What's happening there? Who's funding this infrastructure, who's maintaining the infrastructure? Yeah, 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.120 what level of surveillance has been implemented, Where are the 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.880 public transportation roots and why they here not there? 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.680 You know, yeah, exactly, Like there's people whose opinions and 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.559 views matter in that process, and there are people who 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:35.600 are excluded from it. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.080 Exactly. Yeah. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.720 One of the authors I tend to go back too 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:45.120 often is the Vandalists because he critics a lot of 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:49.640 this stuff, particularly infrastructure's control and tools. Look in Viviality. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.559 He spoke about how modern transport and urban design have 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.720 been used to alienate people from their own bodies and communities. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.440 So you call a lot the usual suspects suburbanization, car 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:05.120 centric infrastructure, how it isolates people and increases dependence on vehicles, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.959 and he called this dependence a radical monopoly because all 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.120 the other choices have effectively been eliminated. Technically, you could 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.079 walk along the highway, but you're not going to You're 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.920 going to get a cart, right, you can't choose to 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:22.800 walk a cycle in that sort of scenario. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.160 Yeah, someone's going to call the cops that you try 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:26.920 that in America, right, Yeah. 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:29.400 So as a lich sor it, it's really a cultural 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.720 imposition that shapes how we end up living, interacting move 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.480 in and it's frustrated. And on the global stage, you 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:42.160 also see how infrastructure has the capacity to control the 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:47.320 whole geopolitical board. You know, the Suez Canal, the Panama Canal, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.040 the Red Sea, the straight Orf home moves, all these 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:59.080 places have a lot of power militarily, trade wise, phlegmatically 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.560 because they control the flow of oil, or. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:03.720 Of goods, or of data. 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.120 Yeah, particularly in the areas where the undersea internet cables run. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.720 And so speaking of data, actually the realm of digital 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.560 infrastructures also very insiguous when it comes to control. We 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.520 tend to think of the Internet as that sort of 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:25.720 ephemeral cloud, right, but the cloud is hosted physically. You know, 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.960 there are sofas, there are fiber optic cables, they are 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.280 data centers, all these things. They're not as obvious as 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:38.000 roads and railways and you know, neighborhoods, but they are 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.360 just as if not in some ways even more powerful 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.160 in terms of controlling what people access, how fast they 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.320 access it, under what terms they access it, or because 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.400 it's so intangible it's so hard to pin down, it 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:55.960 can often escape scrutiny. But there are companies that own 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.600 these things. There's a small group of very powerful corporations 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.400 that pretty much dictate how things are running. You know, 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.320 most people they know about China's Great Firewall and how 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.520 it's used to coordin off China from the rest of 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.640 the Internet in some ways. You know, it's sensors to 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:16.480 websites and switch results, it monitors people's activity, and it 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.440 usually has these state monitored alternatives to some of the 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.840 popular global platforms like Google and Facebook. Right, But Google 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.560 and Amazon and Meta and Microsoft. It's not like they're 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.040 any better. You know, they're don't run and things republic 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.400 could so if you will call out what China's doing 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.200 with the with the Great Firewall, and I agree, I 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.800 don't think that any govement should have any control over 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:42.040 what people access. But you know, it's not like censorship, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.400 data harvested and surveillance are unique to China. You know 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.840 a lot of other governments, in collaboration with these companies 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:54.120 deploy soft censorship. You know, they de rank things in 0:16:54.160 --> 0:17:01.280 the algorithm, they filter certain keywords, they selectively block certain things. Yeah, 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.720 things are maybe automatically flagged or moderated, and that often 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:10.439 affects people from the LGBTQ community in countries where you 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.399 know that's that's a fig no no, or you have 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.600 even the manipulation of language, the words people use as 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.960 people try to get around censors. Hence the proliferation of 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:26.280 terms like great and essay and self delete and unlive 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:31.520 and all these other euphemisms which I mean, on a step, 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.720 I don't use any of them, and I despise them. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:35.240 Yeah, me too. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.800 The thing is a lot of people assume that these 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.800 words are censored and all platforms, but they're not. You know, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.280 they may be censored on one platform, usually it's TikTok 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.920 or limited in one platform. And then if people take 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.320 that sort of TikTok sort of way of speaking and 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:53.720 spread it across the rest of the internet, or will 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.760 see it bring it into real life and end up 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:58.840 saying things like unlive in real life. 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:05.360 Yeah yeah, and then you have allowed fucking TikTok's algorithm 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.879 to determine the way you can express yourself. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.240 Exactly, exactly, And I mean, TikTok has a lot of 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.440 heat these days because you know, rightfully so, it's very popular, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.000 it has a lot of influence, and it's you know, 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:22.680 very bleatantly interventionist with its content in some damage in 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.560 ways but again, the other big cooperations are not immune either. 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:31.879 I mean Facebook was famously found culpable for genocide, right, Yeah, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.040 they played a major role in the sort of attitudes 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.679 that were developing and the marginalization that was sort of 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:44.440 targeting Hinger community and the subsequent genocide. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:44.960 Yeah. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.200 So I was on a panel with some my Hinder 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.040 people the other day and they are still by physical 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.960 and technical infrastructure, being marginalized. So something myself and my 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.320 Union friends are trying to do is help the Rahinge 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.200 of Podcast initiative start podcasting right such that they can 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.960 share their own voices with the world and their their 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:08.400 positions and their opinions. It's very important at a time 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.359 when like they're facing marginalization even from revolutionary forces within 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:18.560 me and and we cannot sustain an Internet connection to 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.399 allow them to do that. We tried to do a 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.600 live panel and it was very hard for you know, 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.040 these guys are running around Cox is bizarre, where tens 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.000 of thousands of Hinga people live in refugee camps trying 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.400 to find connectivity, like just another example of how they 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.639 continue to be marginalized by the systems that first allowed 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.400 them to be genocided exactly. 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.560 Yeah, because the private cooperations alone and our response, well 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.080 for this is the governm months too. You know, when 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.800 the corporations still tell the gover months to do something, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.240 the golf months comply. And then when the golf months 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.560 tell the corporations to do stuff, a lot of the time, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:59.679 it's also like they comply. It's collaboration, you know, especially 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.520 since they government has the power in a lot of 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.879 cases to shut down the Internet when things are not 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.960 going their way. You know, they've they used it and 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.840 all of it. Recently, you have the suppression of the 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.439 center in protests, you know, to influence elections or to 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.480 restrict information, substructionalism and communication during crises. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:19.240 When you look at. 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:25.160 All over the world Iran, India, Sudan, Yanma, Uganda, even 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:29.399 in Gaza. In all these cases, these governments step in 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.879 and they limit or they shut down the Internet entirely 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.959 to prevent the news from getting out. You know, they 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.159 could target either the entire Internet or they target platforms. 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.960 They target WhatsApp, they target Twitter. They justify by saying, 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.280 oh they're going after take news or there's a security threat. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.399 Yeah it's bullshit, but you know, we could see through that. 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:51.720 Yeah. 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.199 And it's tough because I mean, this is where these are, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.879 These are the places where people have gathered. These are 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:02.159 the online town squares, you know, and these these this 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:07.680 infrastructure is very much centralized. Google controls most of the 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:12.800 search on the internet. Amazon dominates e commerce and cloud, 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:16.520 computer and logistics, and Meta controls a lot of people's 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.359 social interactions. You know, I could brag and say, oh, well, 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.200 I'm not on Facebook, but you know, I still use 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:26.560 What'sapp because everybody else uses WhatsApp. Yeah, And it's it's 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.600 so easy for them, because we're so concentrated on these platforms, 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.119 It's so easy for them to pop at us, to 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:36.840 flex their their muscles and control the direction of public discourse. 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:44.000 And I mean it's amplifying things, suppressing other things, maximizing 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:51.440 our engagements, exploiting our cognitive and vulnerabilities, polarizing discourse, distorted reality. 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:53.760 It's like, what the hell do we do? 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:55.760 Yeah? 0:21:55.800 --> 0:22:01.840 And so for the the Opium segment of the podcast, 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.000 I just want to point out that, you know, infrastructure 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.639 can be used to consolidate power and control people, but 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.720 it can also be used to resist and to reticular 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:19.240 a collective agency. You know, even infrastructure there was originally 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:25.359 designed to control can be taken under our control. You know, 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:30.240 around the world, communities have been able to challenge these 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:35.440 extractive logics to build their own infrastructures on their own terms. 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:38.680 You know, in digital spaces, this might take the form 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:45.560 of community built mash networks or alternative Internet local servers. 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:50.880 You know, you have projects like guifi dot net in Catalonia, 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.520 or you have the NYC Mesh in New York, and 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:58.680 these are efforts to engage in you know, pay to 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.800 pay and decentralized communications with all the reliance and the 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.480 telecom giants. And then you also, of course physically have 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:12.280 examples of infrastructure resisting central control, participatory urban planet movements. 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:16.480 You have gorilla urbanism. You have you know, of course, 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:21.040 the long and storied history of squatting otherwise known as 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:26.280 informal settlement. And these informal settlements are hubs of innovation 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:29.480 and a lot of cases in things like Nai Rubi or 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:34.000 in Rio Gario. You know, these these slums and favelas, 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.560 they're hooking up their own electricity, hooking up their own internet, 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.399 hooking up their own water is supply. Yeah, because they 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:42.840 recognize that this is within their hands, this is within 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:46.399 their capacity. You know, we don't have to have everything, 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.679 you know, passed on to us from one hye. You know, 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.560 we can you know, sort of claim our own voices 0:23:52.680 --> 0:24:06.480 and design our own spaces. If you're really interested in 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:10.600 how infrastructure has the capacity to control and really just 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.520 how states sort of see things, I have to of 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:17.160 course recommend the classic James C. Scott Seeing like a State. 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:18.040 Yeah. 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:21.480 Oh, I mean it's that's a foundational framework to understand 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:24.600 and how infrastructure is used for social engineering. It's really 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.440 readable as well, so definitely give that a read, and 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.800 you know, think about ways that you can contribute to 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:36.800 shaping the infrastructure around you. And I don't know, James, 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:39.560 if you have any stories along this vein you can 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:40.280 leave us off with. 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:43.639 Yeah, I mean I think of a ton right, Like 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.040 even I think about like when I was a lot younger, 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:50.320 I lived in a I guess what you could call 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:54.159 a slum of Leila, like a pretty economically disadvantage to 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:57.359 part of Kadakus for a little while and like at 0:24:57.400 --> 0:24:58.800 the time, and I've seen it's when I lived in 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.720 Barcelona too, I guess the English word would be info 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.200 shop they normally call them social centers would be the 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:08.120 Spanish word, or social spaces, and like it was cool 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.800 to this is a city which is established through colonialism, right, 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:16.320 And there was a brief time before things were terrible 0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:19.760 in Venezuela where people were trying to make it and 0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:21.840 largely it was people trying to make things better, and 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:24.679 like the state for a time allowed a space for 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:27.040 that to exist before it stopped allowing a space for 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.000 that to exist, which is where we're at right now, right, 0:25:29.560 --> 0:25:33.120 and very clearly the state right now is very repressive 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:35.639 in Venezuela, to be clear, Like I didn't want to 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:38.879 give put fuel on the tanky fire or whatever, but 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:43.080 it was actually a really beautiful thing and it facilitated, right, 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:44.280 I was like nineteen. 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:47.800 My Spanish was dog shit. I was hungry all the time. 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:50.560 It didn't have any food, you know, But it facilitated 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:54.520 that community taking care of me because the spaces were 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.760 public and people could see if people were falling. 0:25:58.320 --> 0:25:59.360 Through the cracks. 0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:03.080 Right, I think a lot about refugee camps, so obviously 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:05.360 that somewhere has spent a decent amount of time, right 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:08.639 both within the US and outside of the US, and 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:10.760 something I've been thinking about a lot recently, is how 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.000 so many of the people I met on the way 0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:17.440 to the United States and the Dadienne had horrific experiences 0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:22.320 in the Dadianne and afterwards, but they also miss the 0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:28.800 community that they had, Like they also miss the profound 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:31.040 solidarity of just talking to people the other day who 0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:34.920 were telling me, like when they were hungry in the jungle, 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.280 strangers who didn't speak their language would try and give 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:39.879 them food. 0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:42.400 Yeah, you see that in a lot of disasters too, 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.080 this sort of explosion and mutually. 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.840 Yeah, And like refugee camp is a place where you 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:51.120 do not have privacy for the most part, and that's 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:55.600 not always great, but it facilitates caring for one another. 0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:58.520 And like, I don't know, I have this recollection from 0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:01.960 seven or eight years ago. Now I'm walking through a 0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:05.720 refugee camp in Mexican and just a very little girl 0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:08.880 from six seven something like that, And I have long hair. 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.880 People can't see me, but she likes to like mess 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:15.120 with my hand braided shit. And I'm carrying this little girl, 0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:17.879 and like I've been coming for some time, and like 0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:20.960 the sense of community that you felt there amongst like 0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:25.200 a really terrible situation, but like because everyone can see 0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:27.320 you walking down his little walkway, Everyone's like, oh hi, 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:29.280 how are you? Like you know, the kind of I'm 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:31.240 trying to work out what they what they need and 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.879 how we can best help. Like I just remember thinking 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.400 like what the fuck is wrong with and then going 0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.280 back to the United States, right, and sitting in my 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:41.920 little house and like, you know, you know, like that, 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:44.600 like I'm fortunate to know my neighbors and to be 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:47.760 close to them, but not many people are. And like 0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:50.280 for most people, you know that they get out of 0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:51.560 the house and go to their car, they drive to 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:51.800 their work. 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:52.919 They don't say hi to anyone. 0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:58.000 Like it's so strange that, like, in a sense, in 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.399 those refugee camps were close to the beautiful life that 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:05.520 we want than we are in these million dollar homes. 0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:08.119 In my house does not cost a million dollars. I 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:13.359 don't own a house. But the profound alienation that we feel, 0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:16.680 in part because of the physical infrastructure, the ability of 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:19.639 humanity to fall back into caring for one another, to like, 0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:23.920 that's what we do when we are not like physically 0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:29.240 and like intellectually restrained from doing it by structures both 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:34.240 both physical and digital, and even emotional that divide us 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:37.240 from one another. And I've kind of thought about that 0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:40.480 ever since, Like, how do I build a place where 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:44.040 people have more stability, people have privacy, people have their 0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:44.800 material needs. 0:28:44.840 --> 0:28:48.640 Men, Yeah, does you want to strike a balance infrastructure? Yeah, 0:28:48.680 --> 0:28:51.680 I don't want There's some coh hopes and sort of 0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.360 plans that I've seen, for example, but don't even really 0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:58.040 factor any much privacy, which. 0:28:58.880 --> 0:28:59.640 I'm not for at all. 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:03.760 But the one after recreate their their dorm room experience 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.720 or in my case, they are sharing a bedroom the 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:08.160 entire childhood experience. 0:29:08.720 --> 0:29:12.360 So yeah, we need to have space for people to 0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:16.080 have privacy, but at the same time space for people 0:29:16.120 --> 0:29:18.680 to have community, and like, cities can exist like that, 0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:21.440 Communities can exist like that. They're the theory of the 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:25.160 Mediterranean public sphere that sometimes comes up where like again 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.120 in working class Barcelona, right, people don't generally have air 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:29.920 conditioning and it can't get very hot, so you just 0:29:29.960 --> 0:29:33.920 spend a lot of time outside balcony whatever, you know, 0:29:34.000 --> 0:29:37.400 front port if you've got one that creates community, right, 0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:39.840 that creates a public sphere, like a place that is 0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:43.080 it's not quite our home, but it's not controlled by 0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:47.840 someone else either, it's like a community space, and that 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:52.440 doesn't exist in like I don't live in the suburbs, 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:54.840 but like suburban America, you know, where everyone has these 0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:57.680 like literal fences around all the shit that they own. 0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:03.400 Yeah, that exists the very an extent in Trinidad. Yeah, 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:06.200 you know, some areas are very much communal and other 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:10.600 areas like trying desperately to be America. 0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:10.640 Yeah. 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:14.760 Yeah, so yeah, it's kind of a mix of both 0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:17.080 wheels there, at the very least from what I'm aware 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:19.560 of what I can tell people, at least say height 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:22.680 to the neighbors, though, Yeah, that's that's still like a 0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:25.800 horrifying you know, like. 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:28.800 Mirrors respecter of not knowing your neighbors. 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:31.720 Thing that I've heard of America in life that you 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:35.600 don't even say hi, Yeah, you know, you don't even 0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:37.040 wave at people Like that's yeah. 0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:39.680 No, I'm always in my neighbor's houses and they're always 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.760 at my house. And like I'm a person who owns 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:46.040 a lot of tools, you know, like different spanners and stuff, 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:48.920 so like I'm like I will go out of my 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:51.040 weight to make sure that my neighbors know they can 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:55.440 borrow my ship and and like that does seem to 0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:58.680 be quite a new experience for people who are like 0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:00.280 new in the neighborhood or what ever. 0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:01.840 But yeah, we should all do that. 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:06.880 It's such an easy way to fight that alienation and 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:09.800 the infrastructure that you know, like, yeah, there's a wall 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:12.240 between where I live and where the person next door lives. 0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:14.600 But yeah I can I can knock on the door 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:16.880 and say, hey, it looks like you're having some trouble 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:18.360 with your truck. Do you need a hand or what 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:18.680 have you? 0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:25.520 Yeah, so, I mean what you're saying is it could 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:26.120 happen here. 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:31.040 Yeah, yeah, you gotta make maybe the good things happen 0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:32.959 here too, because enough of the fucking bad shares. 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:38.600 Indeed, Laza for me, guys, all power to all the people. 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:59.600 Please this is it could happen here. The show about 0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.600 things for falling apart. One thing falling apart last year. 0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:06.920 I guess the president's mental health seemingly so. And we're 0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:10.000 going to talk about that today and some possible ramifications 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:14.000 that the current president may be trying to exploit to 0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:17.400 help him out. Robert Evans, Hello, how are you? 0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:20.360 I'm fine? Is something wrong with the president? 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:22.400 The current one or the old one? 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:25.360 Any president ever. Has a president ever done wrong? 0:32:25.760 --> 0:32:28.480 I heard some nasty things about mister Clinton. 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.880 Interesting. I woke up today for the first time, so 0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:32.680 this is all new to me. 0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:33.040 Yeah. 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:36.760 Just don't look on like the news or the internet 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:38.760 or anything, and it should be Okay. 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:42.600 That's good. I'm just going to start reading Wikipedia at 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:44.920 the A section and see if I get to anything 0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:45.880 bad about a president. 0:32:46.800 --> 0:32:50.640 So since taking office, Trump has actually sort of been 0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:55.360 going soft on old sleepy Joe, not out of the 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:58.840 goodness of his own heart, right, but to possibly explore 0:32:58.920 --> 0:33:02.200 legal options to get around some of the roadblocks Trump's 0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:04.320 been facing in the judicial branch. 0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:06.400 Yeah, that makes sense. 0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:10.920 Trump's been arguing that Biden himself was mostly absent, especially 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:14.080 during the later half of his presidency, and a sort 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:18.760 of like secret cabal of cabinet members, DNC consultants, white 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:21.959 House staff, and aids were running a shadow presidency. 0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:25.880 Yeah, and one of my constant takes is there are 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:28.320 no secret cabals. There's a lot of cabals. They're all 0:33:28.440 --> 0:33:31.880 very obvious, very public, very public cabals. 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:37.800 But this secret cabal of like DNC interns, we're using 0:33:37.840 --> 0:33:43.080 Biden's signature via auto pen to set policy, make judicial appointments, 0:33:43.120 --> 0:33:47.960 and sign orders, all with little to zero awareness from 0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:52.440 poor old six sleepy Joe. In fact, people around Biden 0:33:52.520 --> 0:33:56.200 intentionally covered up his declining health to continue using his 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:59.720 presidential power for their own progressive agenda. 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:02.240 If only they'd used it for that, and not just 0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:03.280 to keep getting. 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:06.800 Paychecks or sending bombs to Israel, or sending bombs to 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:08.920 Israel many of the other, many of the other things 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:12.480 that Yeah Biden seemed to preoccupied with. I would have 0:34:12.600 --> 0:34:15.760 play a clip from a month and a half ago 0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:21.440 Donald Trump, current president, explaining this conspiracy of the secret 0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:22.520 Joe Biden cabal. 0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:25.160 I'm sure that he didn't know many of the things. Look, 0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:28.080 he was never for open borders, he was never for 0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:31.759 transgender for everybody. He was never for men playing in 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.239 women's sports. I mean he changed, I mean all of 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:37.160 these things that changed so radically. I don't think he 0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:40.799 had any idea that what was Frankly, I said it 0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:43.560 during the debate and I say it now. He didn't 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:44.120 have much of. 0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:45.400 An idea what was going on. 0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:47.319 He shouldn't be. 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:50.719 I mean, essentially, whoever used the autopen was the president. 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:55.520 And that is wrong, It's illegal, it's so bad, and 0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:58.040 it's so disrespectful to our country. 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:03.799 Transgender for everybody, the defining legacy of the Biden era. Sure, 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:05.960 it's his core policy platform. 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:09.680 Yeah, okay, I don't know, Like, what do you even 0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:13.960 say at this point? Right, Like, honestly, he's sending troops 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:16.759 into the second major city, this one the capitol and 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:19.879 taking over the control of the police force. How much 0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:21.799 is it worth just being like, oh and he said 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:25.480 another thing that's not true, Like, I know it's important 0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.840 to cover all this, but also like, man, I'm tired. 0:35:28.120 --> 0:35:31.319 Oh yeah, no, it's it's it's incredibly frustrating because they 0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:34.480 get to deploy these these absurd little lines every once 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:37.640 in a while and it captures media attention, and the 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:40.719 physical things that they're doing do not get as much 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:42.480 like awareness. 0:35:42.400 --> 0:35:45.120 And there's this constant I think misinterpretation as to like 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.319 this is all a distraction from this and this and this, 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:50.120 and it does sometimes function that way, but this isn't. 0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:52.080 They're not doing this because it's a distraction. They're doing 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:54.640 this because they also hate this group of people. So 0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:56.279 when I hurt this group of people, there's a lot 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:57.560 of people they want to hurt, and they want to 0:35:57.600 --> 0:35:58.799 do it in different ways. 0:35:58.960 --> 0:36:02.120 And they're kind of playing a longer game with the 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:06.920 focus on this quote unquote autopen, and it remains to 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:09.480 be seen if it's going to be successful or you know, 0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:12.080 pay off for them. But I do want to talk 0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:13.960 about it now since this is on like you know, 0:36:13.960 --> 0:36:16.799 a month, like four of them slowly seeding this into 0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:19.640 popular discourse. It's like a new thing because every once 0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:21.799 in a while, they have to decide what the new 0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:23.799 thing is. Right a few years ago, they decided it 0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:26.920 was trans people. They decided it was DEI, they decided 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:29.440 it was how the twenty twenty election was stolen. They 0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:33.719 just decide that there's like some major problem, and then 0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:36.600 they repeat it often enough that it becomes like something 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:40.440 that seemingly a share of voters actually care about. And 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:43.279 they're trying to make autopen be a thing. And there 0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:46.120 is actual, like possible results of them focusing on this 0:36:46.239 --> 0:36:49.440 as we as we will see. But the autopen fixation 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:53.160 started this past March when Trump posted a truth on 0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:55.960 truth social claiming that Biden's preemptive partons of members of 0:36:56.000 --> 0:37:00.920 the January sixth Investigation House Committee are quote hereby declared void, vacant, 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:04.480 and of no further force of effect because of the 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:09.000 fact that they were done by autopen unquote. Great, this 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.840 is not real. This is not this is not like 0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:16.120 a real thing that he can disclaim on truth social. 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:17.360 But what's real? You know? 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:20.760 There is no requirement that pardons even be signed, only 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:24.160 that they're accepted by a subject. In nineteen twenty nine, 0:37:24.160 --> 0:37:26.799 the Uslister General concluded in a memo that quotes, neither 0:37:26.840 --> 0:37:30.480 the Constitution nor any statute prescribes the method by which 0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:35.080 executive clemency shall be exercised or evidenced. So he can't 0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:37.480 just do this here. But this was kind of the 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:41.000 opening of the door for the rest of what we're 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:44.240 going to talk about this episode. And I guess before 0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.239 we get into that, I should talk about what an 0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:51.440 autopen is. An autopen is a tool to automate the 0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:54.080 signing of documents by replicating a signature. And this is 0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:56.120 a machine or a type of machine that's long been 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.120 used in the White House, like Thomas Jefferson bought and 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:00.759 used an early iteration of such a device shortly after 0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:03.839 was patent in eighteen oh three, Lennon B. Johnson's auto 0:38:03.840 --> 0:38:06.040 pen was photographed in the White House for a National 0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:09.440 Inquiry or recover story titled the Robot that sits in 0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:13.120 for the President. And it's funny that now you get 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:16.760 Fox News headlines that are basically written very similarly talking 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:20.200 about how actually a robot or the autopen itself was 0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:24.400 acting as president and that's like a controversy, okay versus 0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:26.200 it was just like a fun news story back in 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:26.840 the fifties. 0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:30.040 How many of the guys angry about this literally want 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:34.040 an LLM to be the president? Yes, exactly, that's my question. 0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:37.600 No, at least at least half, at least half the 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:39.680 other half don't know what an ll ish. 0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:41.480 No. 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:41.640 Now. 0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:44.200 Obama was the first president to openly sign legislation with 0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:46.719 an autopen, including the extension of the Patriot Act in 0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:50.040 twenty eleven while at the G eight summit in France, 0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:53.440 and the constitutionality of the autopen has never been tested 0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:57.240 or explicitly determined in court. In two thousand and five, 0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:00.399 President George W. Bush asked the Justice Department for its 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:03.160 opinion on the validity of the autopen for signing legislation 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:06.640 and other official policy documents. The Office of Thegal Council 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.160 found that quote, the President need not personally perform the 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:11.480 physical act of fixing his signature to a bill he 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:14.120 approves and decides to sign in order for the bill 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:16.919 to become law. Rather, the president may sign a bill 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:19.560 by directing a subordinate to a fix the president's signature 0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:23.919 to such a bill, for example, by autopen unquote, though 0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.560 there still is debate whether the president needs to be 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:31.680 physically present during this process or simply authorize the signing. 0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:34.400 And you know, you have people like Steven Miller in 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:38.120 this administration who try to find niche little laws or 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:41.000 statutes to then apply in a way that it was 0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:44.080 probably never designed or we have since these laws inceptions 0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:45.640 have decided not to use the laws in that way 0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:47.719 because that doesn't make sense of our current context. But 0:39:48.000 --> 0:39:50.480 someone like Miller very willing to do such a thing. 0:39:50.800 --> 0:39:55.319 And there could be, for instance, some obscure aspect or 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:59.359 interpretation of like proxy signature laws that they could try 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.640 to like form course through into their interpretation of like 0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:06.439 Article one, section seven of the Constitution, which might make 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:09.480 some auto pen signatures in valid. But this is something 0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:11.920 that's like kind of dismissed in a lot of legal 0:40:11.960 --> 0:40:14.960 circles because as like a practical matter, it would be 0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:18.719 disastrous to start rescinding executive actions based on this interpretation, 0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:22.919 because like decades and decades of laws and regulations would 0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:25.600 then fall into question and possibly become void. So lots 0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:28.000 of people just like kind of don't think this is 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:31.440 like a real question or a real concern, And part 0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:34.439 of me thinks that as well. But as like someone 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.319 like Miller is demonstrated, they're absolutely willing to use like 0:40:37.600 --> 0:40:42.720 niche arguments or precedents to do some pretty like crazy stuff. 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:45.360 Do you know what is not very crazy? 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:47.960 Robert paying money to the sponsors of this show. 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:49.880 It's an extremely reasonable act. 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:51.960 It's the only sane thing you can do. If you 0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:54.600 do anything else, you are being fifty one fifty, then 0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.359 you'll be on an involuntary seventy two hour hold. That's 0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:04.400 the way the law works. 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:14.239 All right, we are back. So with this Biden autopen thing, 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:17.800 it's not really about the autopen. The autopen actually is 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:19.920 not the problem here kind of at all. That's not 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:23.479 what they're really focusing on. In early June, the Justice 0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:27.400 Department launched an investigation into Biden's alleged use of the autopen, 0:41:27.800 --> 0:41:30.319 with the DOJ Pardon Attorney ed Martin writing in an 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:33.480 email that this investigation is to determine whether Joe Biden 0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:36.880 was quote competent and whether others were taking advantage of 0:41:36.960 --> 0:41:41.239 him through use of the autopen or other means unquote, 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:44.080 with a specific focus on the primpt of pardons for 0:41:44.120 --> 0:41:47.439 members of Biden's family and clemency for thirty seven death 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:50.080 Row inmates who sentences were converted to life in prison. 0:41:51.000 --> 0:41:54.719 So this is the real crux whether Biden was competent 0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:58.040 and whether people were using the autopen without his knowledge. 0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:00.520 And I think the reason why they're there start by 0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:05.040 focusing on these pardons, whether for January sixth investigation committee 0:42:05.080 --> 0:42:07.480 members or for those close to Biden. Like this all 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:09.880 relates to Trump's campaign promise of retribution. 0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:10.279 Right. 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:12.800 You can think of Cash Betel's list of deep state 0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:16.279 actors that he wants to investigate, like that was such 0:42:16.440 --> 0:42:19.360 a core part of what Trump campaigned on, and he 0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:24.640 does still seem keen on fulfilling parts of that promise. 0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:30.680 Now Ed Martin, the DOJ pardon attorney investigating this auto 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:34.640 pen debacle himself, has said that the president's pardon power 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:36.960 is absolute and that using the autopen is quote not 0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:40.400 necessarily a problem. But I think the core part here 0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:42.760 is that it's not about the autopen itself. It's about 0:42:42.760 --> 0:42:45.879 this secret cabal who are using the auto pen without 0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:49.320 Biden's knowledge. So a few days after this investigation was announced, 0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:52.120 the White House released a public memo from Trump entitled 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:56.600 reviewing Certain Presidential Actions, which ordered the Attorney General and 0:42:56.640 --> 0:43:00.000 the White House Council to investigate quote whether certain individual 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:02.600 rules conspired to deceive the public about Biden's mental state 0:43:02.640 --> 0:43:07.880 and unconstitutionally exercise to the authorities and responsibilities of the president. 0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:12.840 And this document reads like something I would read on 0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:16.920 like a conspiracy theory website five years ago. It's written 0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:18.480 in a very similar style. 0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:19.320 Quote. 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:23.000 President Biden's aides abused the power of presidential signatures through 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:26.080 the use of an auto pen to conceal Biden's cognitive 0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:29.839 decline and assert article to authority. This conspiracy marks one 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:32.880 of the most dangerous and concerning scandals in American history. 0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.120 The American public was purposely shielded from discovering who wielded 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:39.520 the executive power, all while Biden's signature was deployed across 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:45.080 thousands of documents to affect radical policy shifts. Unquote. The 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:48.400 memo states that Biden's advisors uote unquote tried to hide 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:51.560 the true extent of his mental decline to quote cover 0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:54.040 up his inability to discharge his duties. 0:43:54.320 --> 0:43:54.640 Quote. 0:43:55.560 --> 0:44:00.600 The investigation specifically wants to look into which policy documents 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:04.200 were signed via auto pen and who ordered the President's 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:08.080 signature to be a fixed to said documents. One other 0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:10.919 quote from the memo quote the White House issued over 0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:14.960 twelve hundred presidential documents, appointed two hundred and thirty five 0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:18.040 judges to the federal bench, and issued more pardons and 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:22.400 commutations than any administration in United States history. Although the 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.000 authority to take these executive actions, along with many others, 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:28.680 is constitutionally committed to the president, there are serious doubts 0:44:28.680 --> 0:44:31.160 as to the decision making process and even the degree 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:34.239 of Biden's awareness of these actions being taken in his name. 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:37.680 Given clear indications that President Biden lacked the capacity to 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:41.759 exercise its presidential authority, if his advisors secretly used the 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:47.440 mechanical signature pen to conceal this incapacity while taking radical 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:50.440 executive actions all in his name, that would constitute an 0:44:50.560 --> 0:44:54.200 unconstitutional wielding of the power of the presidency. A circumstance 0:44:54.520 --> 0:44:57.440 that would have implications for the legality and validity of 0:44:57.480 --> 0:45:03.160 numerous executive actions undertaken in Biden's name unquote. So though 0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:07.040 the two thousand and five Bush DOJ memo does support 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:09.160 the use of the autopen to a fix the president's signature, 0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:13.120 obviously it still must be the president who decides to 0:45:13.320 --> 0:45:16.760 sign a document, with the Office of Legal Counsel memo 0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:19.440 state in quote, we do not question the substantial authority 0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:22.640 supporting the view that the president must personally decide whether 0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:26.440 to approve and sign bills. This is pretty obvious, and 0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:28.839 that's why so much of the autopen investigations are around 0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:32.440 Biden's deteriorating mental state and not the auto pen itself. 0:45:32.760 --> 0:45:35.799 It's about trying to prove whether Biden was either not 0:45:36.040 --> 0:45:38.920 mentally capable of sufficiently authorizing a signature to be a 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:42.279 fixed to certain documents, or was just completely unaware that 0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:45.560 the autopen was signing certain documents with White House advisors 0:45:45.640 --> 0:45:49.600 specifically covering up Biden's mental decline to take advantage of 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:53.399 his compromise state to personally direct policy. And that's what 0:45:53.560 --> 0:45:56.959 the investigations are going to try to prove. The White 0:45:56.960 --> 0:45:59.680 House is already making repeated assertions that this was the 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:02.880 case and this question may be finally settled in a 0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:08.480 Trump sympathetic court, and Republicans are currently trying every angle 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:12.080 of attack on this. Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson has started 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:16.000 a Senate investigation, and a House Oversight Committee investigation is 0:46:16.040 --> 0:46:20.600 already up and running. The past month, Kentucky Republican James 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:24.520 Comer has been subpoena in Biden admin officials to testify 0:46:24.600 --> 0:46:27.400 on the use of the auto pen and Biden's mental 0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:32.480 faculties while in office. Comer's own letters and subpoenas for 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:36.600 this investigation have been signed with a digital signature, because 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:39.759 this is such a common practice in Washington and like 0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:42.120 all over the country. Now trying to think of all 0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:45.600 the official documents you signed on your computer right now. 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:48.439 Metadata from a subpoena cover letter sent to former Senior 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:51.760 Advisor to the First Lady Anthony Bernal showed the document 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:55.240 was authored and signed by someone named Benzene, an Oversight 0:46:55.320 --> 0:46:59.480 Committee staffer, not James Comer. Because again, this is pretty regular. 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:03.960 Even the investigators are doing this process themselves while doing 0:47:03.960 --> 0:47:08.120 the investigation. Part of the reason why the Republicans are 0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:10.920 trying to make this a continuing story and not just 0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:14.480 about you know, the pardons is because as like Biden 0:47:14.520 --> 0:47:18.920 appointee judges began blocking Trump's executive orders, the focus on 0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:23.160 the autopen turned from just pardons towards use of the 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:27.840 autopen to nominate federal judges. And this is where things 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:32.120 get a lot more slippery. Last month, Fox News asked 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:36.640 House Overseec Committee Chairman James Comer if not just pardons 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:39.200 may be found to be null and void because of 0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:44.240 the results of this investigation, but possibly also judicial appointments. 0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:47.560 Biden made two hundred and twenty eight judicial appointments, including 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.560 forty five Appeals Court and one hundred and eighty seven 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:55.200 District Court judges, and most importantly, Biden appointed Justice Kachanji 0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:59.000 Brown Jackson, the Court's most long winded justice who couldn't 0:47:59.040 --> 0:48:02.879 even define what a woman is. Mister Chairman, you mentioned 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:04.879 that you're looking at some of the pardons that were 0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:07.719 done under President Biden and the use of the autopen, 0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:10.920 doctor Fauci being one of them, talking about whether they 0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:13.680 were legitimate or not. Are you also looking into Biden's 0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:17.040 judicial appointments as well. 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:21.040 Absolutely everything that was signed with the autopan, especially in 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:24.440 the last year of the Biden presidency. This is when 0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:27.960 all the books that are being written, all the tell 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:32.360 all interviews that are being recorded from his former disgruntled 0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:36.040 staffers and stafferds who are trying to preserve the reputation 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:40.080 for future employment. They're all saying that Joe Biden was 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:45.880 in a deep mental decline and that he was protected 0:48:46.160 --> 0:48:49.080 by a very small inner circle. We brought a few 0:48:49.120 --> 0:48:51.040 of those people in the inner circle and asked them 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.239 simple questions like were you ever told to lie about 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:56.080 the president's health? And they couldn't answer that question. They 0:48:56.160 --> 0:48:58.960 had to plead the fifth to avoid self incrimination. This 0:48:59.120 --> 0:49:03.239 raises an issue whether these pardons, whether these judicial appointments, 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:07.200 and whether these executive orders are legal. I believe that 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:09.919 if this investigation keeps going in the way that it's going, 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:12.480 that's going to a very serious concerns about whether or 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:16.080 not Joe Biden even you what was going on around him, 0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:19.520 much less whether he authorized the use of his signature 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:21.439 on all of this stuff. I think all of these 0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:24.560 are in jeopardy of being declared null and void in 0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:26.440 a court of law, and that's a big deal for 0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:29.359 the Trump administration, because so much of what Trump is 0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:33.800 up against in court now with these liberal, biased Biden 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:37.680 appointed judges is the fact that they're using and citing 0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:42.600 some of these executive orders as reason to throw out 0:49:43.120 --> 0:49:46.799 President Trump's agenda and President Trump's executive orders. So they 0:49:46.840 --> 0:49:50.839 tried to trump proof the the administration on the way 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:52.880 out the door. And the problem that got now is 0:49:52.880 --> 0:49:55.359 the American people realize that Joe Biden wasn't the one 0:49:55.400 --> 0:49:58.160 calling the shots, and he may very well have not 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:02.360 even been mentally fit to make decisions to authorize the 0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:05.400 use of his autopin if he even authorized it. So 0:50:05.800 --> 0:50:07.839 this is going to play out in a court of law. 0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:10.640 I think our investigation is going to be a substantial 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:13.200 part of evidence in it, and that's why we're doing 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:13.880 the investigation. 0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:17.640 Uh yeah, that's that's the rub right there. That's exactly 0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:21.319 what they want, right is to completely peel back the 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:25.600 last administration or two of judges and make it just 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:27.799 be all their people, a whole justice system that they 0:50:27.840 --> 0:50:28.760 completely control. 0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:33.640 If they could recall like two hundred and thirty federal judges, yeah, 0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:37.640 and fill in two hundred and thirty more like Trump 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:41.799 appointed judges, that would clear out so much of the 0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:44.000 legal roadblocks that they're currently fac there. 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:44.359 Yep. 0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:47.080 And that is the real crux of their focus on 0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:49.000 this issue. That's why they're trying to like insert this 0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:53.439 into reality. And they're throwing this autopen story like everywhere. 0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:58.120 Even the Epstein files, which don't exist, were concocted by 0:50:58.239 --> 0:50:59.960 the ever suspicious autopath. 0:51:00.360 --> 0:51:03.440 It's a hoax that's been built up way beyond proportion. 0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:04.160 I can say this. 0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:07.960 Those files were run by the worst come on earth. 0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:13.160 They were run by Comy, they were run by Garland, 0:51:13.680 --> 0:51:16.560 they were run by Biden and all of the people 0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:20.239 that actually ran the government, including the autopen. 0:51:20.920 --> 0:51:23.600 Whatever the current big news story is, they're going to 0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:26.640 try to shove the auto pen in there because that's 0:51:26.680 --> 0:51:40.040 how they operate, that's how they craft reality. Okay, we 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:44.799 are back. So needless to say, Biden and his advisors 0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:48.120 have denied all of this. And it's a little tricky 0:51:48.200 --> 0:51:52.880 because part of what makes this story slightly compelling for 0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:56.319 Trump's team is that obviously Biden's mental health was in 0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:58.359 decline for the past few years of his presidency. We 0:51:58.400 --> 0:52:02.239 all saw that happen. That like a accepted part of 0:52:02.280 --> 0:52:05.799 our country's history. Now we all saw the debate, and 0:52:06.200 --> 0:52:08.719 so much of their argument for this is resting on 0:52:09.239 --> 0:52:11.799 how much everyone understands that you have a whole bunch 0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:14.600 of former White House staff writing books on this topic now. 0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:18.680 So with that aspect in mind, they still have to 0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:22.680 defend the use of the autopen and Biden's competency and 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:25.719 awareness of all of the decisions being made to do this. 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:27.960 Last month, had his first interview with The New York 0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:31.960 Times since like twenty twenty one, where he discussed how 0:52:32.000 --> 0:52:35.680 he gave oral authorization for all of the pardons, with 0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:39.600 the autopen operation specifically being managed by the Staff Secretary 0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:44.760 Stephene Feldman. He said, quote I made every decision. Biden 0:52:44.800 --> 0:52:47.120 said that the White House used the autopen specifically for 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:49.560 the last batch of pardons. Biden said that they used 0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:52.560 the autopen because of the high number of pardon warrants 0:52:52.560 --> 0:52:56.719 issued totaling around four thousand, which affected three categories of 0:52:56.760 --> 0:53:01.120 federal convicts, people serving home confinement, non violent drug offenders, 0:53:01.120 --> 0:53:04.520 and people on death row. He did not choose or 0:53:04.719 --> 0:53:08.400 prove like every single name on that list, but claims 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:12.239 to have determined the criteria and categories, saying, quote I 0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:14.560 was deeply involved I laid out a strategy how I 0:53:14.640 --> 0:53:18.320 want to go about these dealing with pardons and commutations. 0:53:18.719 --> 0:53:20.839 I pulled the team in to say, this is how 0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:24.880 I want to get it done generically and then specifically unquote. 0:53:25.880 --> 0:53:28.400 In preparation for the final months of the Biden presidency, 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:31.239 his White House counsel wrote an email to staff in 0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:33.760 like November of twenty twenty four, laying with the process 0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:36.240 four reviewing pardons, the last step being quote the president 0:53:36.280 --> 0:53:39.400 makes the final decision on the final pardon and or 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:43.480 the commutation slate unquote. At this point, around a dozen 0:53:43.560 --> 0:53:47.440 people have been subpoenaed and are giving testimony, and investigation 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:50.920 is looking through emails from the time, specifically starting with 0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:54.160 these pardons, because I think that's the only way they 0:53:54.239 --> 0:53:56.680 have to like investigate this right now. It's easier to 0:53:56.719 --> 0:53:59.960 investigate the pardons from the last three months the presidency 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:02.759 than just all of the documents as signed over the 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:04.960 course of like four years, or even just two years 0:54:04.960 --> 0:54:06.279 if you look at like the past two years of 0:54:06.280 --> 0:54:11.080 his presidency. So specifically, they're focusing on the final pardons 0:54:11.160 --> 0:54:13.840 as like a way in to figure out the process 0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:16.080 for how the autopen was functioning and who was using it, 0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:18.319 and they may try to extend that process out to 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:21.359 things like judicial appointments over time. I think trying to 0:54:21.800 --> 0:54:24.800 rescind the appointment of someone like a Supreme Court justice 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:28.560 very unlikely because obviously Biden had awareness that that was 0:54:28.600 --> 0:54:32.080 going on, but they might try to pull more fucky 0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:36.320 shit with the circuit court appointments or that kind of stuff. 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:39.640 I don't think this is like the most important story 0:54:39.840 --> 0:54:43.239 facing the country right now. Obviously the stuff going on 0:54:43.280 --> 0:54:46.480 in Washington, DC and many other aspects of how the 0:54:46.480 --> 0:54:50.600 Trump administration is operating with ice and with trans people 0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:55.239 affects people more immediately. But I've been specifically trying to 0:54:55.600 --> 0:54:58.880 pull information on how they're crafting this narrative around the 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:02.040 autopen ever since he made that first truth back in March, 0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:06.960 because I saw this as a ongoing reality crafting project 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:11.560 which might accumulate in something actually meaningful over time. And 0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:14.360 none of these investigations have released their findings yet, and 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:16.560 they're not expected to for at least a few more 0:55:16.760 --> 0:55:19.440 weeks to months. But it's something that I think is 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:23.120 worth keeping an eye on right now, especially considering you know, 0:55:23.320 --> 0:55:26.440 Miller and others, and like the Heritage foundations focus on 0:55:26.560 --> 0:55:30.640 trying to find niche loopholes in which executive power can 0:55:30.680 --> 0:55:33.840 be really exercised. And if one of the ways to 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:37.240 remove some of the roadblocks towards this president's executive power 0:55:37.320 --> 0:55:40.600 is to undermine the executive power of a previous administration, 0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:43.360 it would be the first time we see that strategy 0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:48.080 actually enacted. And it sounds like kind of cartoonish, but 0:55:48.239 --> 0:55:50.760 that's so much of what they're currently doing is pushing 0:55:50.800 --> 0:55:54.520 everything to that extreme, trying to test all of these 0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:58.040 more niche theories that you see people talking about in 0:55:58.080 --> 0:56:01.160 the past, Like around twenty eleven, when Obama first signed 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:03.480 legislation with the autopen, you had a whole bunch of 0:56:03.480 --> 0:56:07.720 libertarians complaining that this is unconstitutional because he wasn't physically 0:56:07.719 --> 0:56:11.239 present when the document was being signed, and so you 0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:13.640 have like think pieces on that at the time that 0:56:13.719 --> 0:56:16.880 then kind of get memory hold, and now you're going 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:21.720 to see some of those justifications back again and actually 0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:24.520 try to test them out in court, especially if you 0:56:24.560 --> 0:56:26.839 have a Justice Department investigation, you have an Attorney General 0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:29.120 investigation of a cent an investigation, and a House investigation. 0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:32.880 If one of those can stumble onto or develop or 0:56:32.920 --> 0:56:36.759 invent some compelling argument. We will actually see versions of 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:39.359 this complaint be tested in a way that we never 0:56:39.400 --> 0:56:42.239 have before, because it would be like disastrous to the 0:56:42.920 --> 0:56:47.239 functional aspect of this state. If you determine that all 0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:50.360 presidential documents signed via autopen are not ballid unless presents 0:56:50.360 --> 0:56:52.640 in the room, that would be a massive domino tipping 0:56:52.719 --> 0:56:56.760 over which you know, most reasonable people who work in government, 0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:59.600 like elder statesmen, are not going to want to do 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:03.480 that because that sounds like a fucking nightmare, like legally speaking, 0:57:04.120 --> 0:57:06.440 and it would be like disastrous, like it would destroy 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:09.920 some fundamental aspects of the government. But right now, destroying 0:57:10.000 --> 0:57:12.480 aspects of government is kind of the point. That's what 0:57:12.520 --> 0:57:15.279 we saw with Doge, That's what we saw during the 0:57:15.320 --> 0:57:17.640 first few months of the presidency, using this kind of 0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:21.760 tech startup thought process behind running a government. You have 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:23.800 to break things first so that you can rebuild it 0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:26.440 in a way that suits you better. And if that 0:57:26.600 --> 0:57:30.000 means stripping away two hundred federal judges to put in 0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:32.840 two hundred of your own, that would have massive benefits 0:57:32.840 --> 0:57:34.760 for them. And I think that's part of why they're 0:57:34.960 --> 0:57:38.400 having this focus right now. Oh yeah, that's kind of 0:57:38.440 --> 0:57:40.440 all I have on that, So once you have some 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:42.680 closing thoughts. 0:57:42.560 --> 0:57:44.800 No, I mean, of course this is the game as 0:57:45.080 --> 0:57:47.880 laid out in not just Project twenty twenty five, but 0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:51.240 what the right has been talking about my entire life. Like, 0:57:51.280 --> 0:57:54.440 none of this should be surprising if you've been paying attention. 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:56.920 The only reason why some people are surprised is that 0:57:56.960 --> 0:58:02.000 there's folks in the democratic hierarchy who have been saying 0:58:02.040 --> 0:58:04.640 for years, this isn't really what conservatives want. This is 0:58:04.760 --> 0:58:07.720 just a fringe, right, there is no fringe anymore. They'll 0:58:07.760 --> 0:58:10.920 never actually do this. They can't do this. The system 0:58:11.000 --> 0:58:14.280 doesn't work that way. There's just been this belief that 0:58:14.360 --> 0:58:17.800 this can't happen, right, it can't happen, or that like 0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:22.000 if it did, obviously you know the cops will stop them, 0:58:22.120 --> 0:58:25.720 the FBI will stop them, the army will stop them. 0:58:25.880 --> 0:58:28.440 And there's a reason why they've went out of their 0:58:28.480 --> 0:58:33.360 way to gain control of all of those organizations before 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:36.520 doing this. So yeah, I mean, you cannot. We can 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.160 either pretend that someone's going to stop them and you 0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:42.640 don't have to worry about it, or just accept that 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.800 we are where we are and there may be some 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:49.920 unprecedented things that need to be done. Yep, that's all 0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:52.760 I'll say. Legally, that's all I should say. 0:58:53.760 --> 0:58:57.000 That's the episode. Bye bye everyone, Okay, cool. 0:59:12.560 --> 0:59:13.919 Hello, and welcome to the show. 0:59:13.960 --> 0:59:16.760 It's me James today, and I'm very fortunate to be 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:19.920 joined by a friend of the show, Kyle Cassada. 0:59:19.960 --> 0:59:21.919 How you doing, Carl, Oh, I'm doing great. 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:23.320 And when I hear a friend of the show with 0:59:23.640 --> 0:59:25.000 any of you all are you James, It's a real 0:59:25.040 --> 0:59:27.560 honor to me. So I'm honored to be your friend 0:59:27.600 --> 0:59:28.960 and a friend of the show. So I'm glad to 0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:29.280 be here. 0:59:29.440 --> 0:59:31.880 No, thank you. We always appreciate you being here and 0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:33.760 everything you do within range. Kyle. 0:59:33.840 --> 0:59:36.520 We're not here to talk about gunstaf today Italy, which 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:38.280 is nice in a way, because we're here to talk 0:59:38.280 --> 0:59:41.040 about something which is also very important right in terms 0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:44.640 of keeping people safe, and that is activism against like 0:59:44.760 --> 0:59:47.919 corporate destruction of our environment. We're here to talk about 0:59:47.920 --> 0:59:52.280 something called Project Blue specifically. Can you explain to listeners 0:59:52.320 --> 0:59:55.120 who are not familiar folks who maybe you haven't heard 0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:57.920 about it, what Project Blue was proposed to be. 0:59:58.680 --> 1:00:01.400 Yeah, it's not dead either, we'll talk about that more. 1:00:01.440 --> 1:00:05.800 But the Project Blue was a was we'll see a 1:00:05.840 --> 1:00:10.080 two hundred and ninety acre data center project put that 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:13.640 in scope, two hundred and ninety acres WHO data center 1:00:14.240 --> 1:00:17.800 south of Tucson through a company called Biel Infrastructure that 1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:20.240 through people's hard work, came to find out it was 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:24.920 for Amazon. But a two hundred and ninety acre AI 1:00:25.400 --> 1:00:29.200 data center south of Tucson, Yeah, that is vast. 1:00:29.440 --> 1:00:32.120 I'm trying to think of a like, I can't think 1:00:32.160 --> 1:00:33.920 of a comparison for two hundred ninety eight is, but 1:00:33.960 --> 1:00:38.160 that that is a huge amount of like computing power, right, 1:00:38.200 --> 1:00:39.000 I guess. 1:00:38.760 --> 1:00:40.920 It's hard to fathom that kind of space when you 1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:43.600 think about it. Yeah, there are maps of what this 1:00:43.680 --> 1:00:45.640 proposed data center's footprint is. 1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:47.920 And if you take the. 1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:51.400 Rough rectangle of it and place it over Tucson proper, 1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:53.840 the city of Tucson, that's they propose it to be 1:00:53.920 --> 1:00:57.520 just south of it pretty much envelops and it consumes 1:00:57.920 --> 1:01:01.200 the entire downtown of Tucson in multiple neighborhoods. That's how 1:01:01.200 --> 1:01:04.280 big this is. And it's one data center. 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:06.960 Yeah, what was the data center is supposed to do? 1:01:07.080 --> 1:01:07.200 Like? 1:01:07.240 --> 1:01:09.640 What if people aren't familiar, right, what is the data 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:11.280 center to do? What do they do with the big computer? 1:01:11.880 --> 1:01:13.880 Okay, So for people that aren't really into the tech 1:01:13.960 --> 1:01:16.840 sector of things, a data center is essentially think of 1:01:16.960 --> 1:01:19.840 something besides of a bigger than a mall that has 1:01:20.080 --> 1:01:23.160 nothing but giant computer data banks in it. So it's 1:01:23.200 --> 1:01:25.120 a giant place where you would think of your old 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:27.240 mainframes in the old days. It's not mainframes anymore, but 1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:30.960 like it's racks and racks and racks of computing power 1:01:31.400 --> 1:01:35.400 and connectivity to the Internet for the purposes of whatever 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:37.040 Amazon would want to do with this. So if you 1:01:37.160 --> 1:01:41.520 go to use Amazon's infrastructure or use their AI, that 1:01:42.000 --> 1:01:45.880 buzzphrase it now is everywhere the computers that do those 1:01:45.960 --> 1:01:49.840 things or those requests or decide what products they want 1:01:49.840 --> 1:01:52.840 to market to you through their algorithm. That's what these 1:01:52.880 --> 1:01:55.760 data centers do. So it's essentially an entire city. 1:01:55.960 --> 1:01:58.400 Of just machines. Yeah, but tech. 1:01:58.200 --> 1:02:00.240 Cropolis is an interesting way to put it. It's not 1:02:00.280 --> 1:02:01.680 a netcropo, it's a tech croppler. 1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:01.959 Yeah. 1:02:02.080 --> 1:02:06.600 So imagine a few people maintaining an entire city of. 1:02:06.600 --> 1:02:10.520 Machines, right and actively participating in like undermining the value 1:02:10.520 --> 1:02:12.600 of labor for everyone else with this AI shit. 1:02:12.760 --> 1:02:14.320 Well, that's part of this project we're going to get 1:02:14.360 --> 1:02:15.760 into a minute is one of the things they like 1:02:15.800 --> 1:02:17.560 to propose is that it's going to bring jobs, but 1:02:18.000 --> 1:02:18.600 only at the. 1:02:18.520 --> 1:02:21.440 Beginning, and we'll talk about that more. Yeah. 1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:24.600 Yeah, Well, let's talk about like people in Tucson did 1:02:24.600 --> 1:02:27.120 not want this data center, right, Like there was a 1:02:27.600 --> 1:02:30.440 broad based and well organized opposition to it. So perhaps 1:02:30.480 --> 1:02:33.720 we should explain like why why? I mean, I guess 1:02:33.720 --> 1:02:36.080 people listen this podcast are inclined to think data center bad. 1:02:36.120 --> 1:02:38.080 But can you explain the impact that this would have 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:40.320 had on the city and the turning area? 1:02:40.920 --> 1:02:41.080 Oh? 1:02:41.160 --> 1:02:43.840 Yeah, absolutely, So it's very interesting to me to think about. 1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.080 So these data centers of this accord are if you 1:02:46.240 --> 1:02:48.520 if you're interested in this topic and start googling, you're 1:02:48.520 --> 1:02:50.120 going to find that this is, of course not the 1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:53.560 first large or mega data center that's been implemented across 1:02:53.560 --> 1:02:56.920 this country. Because anunder that are in Texas and they 1:02:56.960 --> 1:03:00.720 are belching large amounts of pollution and to the environment. 1:03:00.840 --> 1:03:04.760 Cities nearby get absolutely destroyed by it. Typically they're brought 1:03:04.760 --> 1:03:07.760 in through some sort of tax incentives by the local 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:12.480 city council or local county, and so that's exactly what 1:03:12.560 --> 1:03:15.640 was happening here with Tucson. So the local city council 1:03:15.800 --> 1:03:18.760 was pretty friendly to the idea. They were talking to 1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:22.600 this beal infrastructure to bring in Project Blue, they were 1:03:22.640 --> 1:03:25.480 giving tax cuts, they were giving all these incentives to 1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:29.680 bring this gigantic, megalithic thing into just south of town. 1:03:30.160 --> 1:03:32.440 And part of the insidiousness of this is that this 1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:34.520 was going to go forward until someone noticed it. 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:35.760 Yeah, it was just. 1:03:35.720 --> 1:03:37.480 Going to happen all of a sudden one day, this 1:03:37.520 --> 1:03:39.840 thing is there, right, but it was noticed, And I 1:03:39.880 --> 1:03:41.640 don't honestly know exactly how it. 1:03:41.600 --> 1:03:43.000 Got noticed, but it got noticed. 1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:46.480 And one of the things I really find interesting, historically speaking, 1:03:46.520 --> 1:03:50.120 is how certain places and cultures resonate over time with 1:03:50.520 --> 1:03:54.600 historical events from the past. Tucson historically is an interesting 1:03:54.640 --> 1:03:57.840 place in terms of its environmental activism. There's a number 1:03:57.880 --> 1:03:59.920 of things that happened in Tucson. In the nineteen sixty 1:04:00.000 --> 1:04:03.640 There were groups that were actively fighting the spread of 1:04:04.360 --> 1:04:08.800 highways highway infrastructure, so they were anti freeway, and their 1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:12.440 reasoning and rationale was it that freeways were the arterial 1:04:12.480 --> 1:04:17.840 infrastructure that allowed for the destructive spread of tracklum developments. 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:21.200 So the way to help one way is to prevent 1:04:21.640 --> 1:04:24.040 the destruction of the local environment and the spread of 1:04:24.080 --> 1:04:28.400 a city was to diminish its freeway footprint. And I 1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:30.080 think you can see this is true if you look 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.520 at any big city now like Phoenix is essentially a 1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:36.680 hive city, and all of the growth comes because of freeways, right. 1:04:36.520 --> 1:04:39.080 Because people can get to work or whatever quickly, and 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:41.160 so you get commuter suburbs. 1:04:41.400 --> 1:04:43.439 One thing that's always was interesting when I was doing 1:04:43.440 --> 1:04:46.160 more work in infosec, when people talk this does make sense. 1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:47.560 By the way, this is going to sound off topic. 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:52.400 I was talking to the information security architect for McDonald's 1:04:52.440 --> 1:04:54.800 and we were working with them on putting together a 1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:56.520 This is why this is interesting me as a data 1:04:56.520 --> 1:04:58.000 center thing I used to do a lot as work. 1:04:58.600 --> 1:05:01.040 They were talking about putting in a very secure and 1:05:01.200 --> 1:05:04.440 encrypted data center for the purposes of protecting their intellectual property. 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:06.080 And I was talking to this guy. I was like, 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:08.120 what is this like your recipes or what is it 1:05:08.120 --> 1:05:12.880 you it's a McDonald's protects Yeah, And this was wild. No, 1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:15.680 they don't care about the recipes. They were protecting their 1:05:15.720 --> 1:05:18.000 software that determines where they should buy the next piece 1:05:18.000 --> 1:05:21.040 of real estate to put a McDonald's. McDonald's actually a 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:24.240 real estate company. And I have seen this in real 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:26.600 time with my life because I've lived in a very 1:05:26.640 --> 1:05:29.280 remote part of the Arizona Desert the frontier for lack 1:05:29.280 --> 1:05:31.120 of a better term, of Arizona for a long time. 1:05:31.440 --> 1:05:33.200 And the first thing that popped up in this one 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:34.400 little area in the middle of. 1:05:34.360 --> 1:05:35.800 Nowhere was a McDonald's. 1:05:35.920 --> 1:05:39.120 And now everywhere you see a McDonald's show up someplace 1:05:39.120 --> 1:05:41.160 that seems a little weird, give it a few years 1:05:41.160 --> 1:05:43.960 and it's suddenly the epicenter of a new tract one development. 1:05:44.240 --> 1:05:48.920 Oh it's like they have some unique algorithm to determine. 1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:51.160 They figure that out, and the McDonald's are the first 1:05:51.160 --> 1:05:53.400 thing they come't usually a gas station in a McDonald's, 1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:55.320 and it essentially just looks like, oh, this is the 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.640 place to stop, take a leak and buy a burden. 1:05:58.160 --> 1:06:00.920 But no, they buy all the land around it, and 1:06:00.960 --> 1:06:03.640 then they start selling or leasing that to other businesses 1:06:03.720 --> 1:06:06.560 as the growth happens. That's a big part of how 1:06:06.560 --> 1:06:10.120 the McDonald's corporation makes its main money. Fascinating, Yeah, and 1:06:10.200 --> 1:06:13.240 so aligned with you put a freeway. When you see 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:15.200 a freeway suddenly show up in the middle of nowhere. 1:06:15.720 --> 1:06:18.600 Someone has a goal to put a giant tract home 1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:22.360 development out there and sprawl that city a little more so. Anyways, 1:06:22.440 --> 1:06:24.680 going back to the original topic, these people in Tucson 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:28.360 in the sixties were anti freeway and they actively changed 1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:31.040 the way Tucson grew. And I think it's one of 1:06:31.080 --> 1:06:33.920 the major reasons Tucson, if you've ever been to Tucson 1:06:34.040 --> 1:06:39.360 versus Phoenix, is a very different, culturally different vibe of Phoenix. 1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:39.560 One. 1:06:39.600 --> 1:06:42.520 It doesn't sprawl the same, yeah, and it still has 1:06:43.080 --> 1:06:46.560 stuff that isn't strip malls. It actually has locally owned businesses, 1:06:46.720 --> 1:06:49.480 It actually has some community resources, not all of its 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:51.280 tract home and strip malls. And I think a lot 1:06:51.320 --> 1:06:55.520 of that is because of that freeway activism. Also, you 1:06:55.520 --> 1:06:58.480 look back into Tucson's past, love them or hate them, 1:06:58.520 --> 1:07:01.920 or somewhere in between. The somewhat infamous author Edward Abbey 1:07:02.640 --> 1:07:05.120 lived in Tucson and wrote The Monkey Wrench Gang and 1:07:05.160 --> 1:07:07.880 wrote a lot of environmental activism. He had a lot 1:07:07.880 --> 1:07:09.800 of views that were kind of deplorable, but when it 1:07:09.800 --> 1:07:13.600 came to climate and when it came to the environment, 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:16.680 he was pretty on point. And his work spawned an 1:07:16.720 --> 1:07:20.160 organization called Earth First, which was one of the not 1:07:20.240 --> 1:07:22.919 the first, but one of the most famous direct we're 1:07:22.920 --> 1:07:26.200 talking direct action climate activist or Clyde. You know, they 1:07:26.240 --> 1:07:30.840 were the ones that were destroying bulldozers, driving them off cliffs, 1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:35.000 some burning down Ski Shelle's like pretty wild stuff because 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:37.960 they believed there was no retreat in defensive Mother Earth. 1:07:38.000 --> 1:07:41.160 He's a quote, but anyways, he was Tucson. Earth First 1:07:41.480 --> 1:07:44.360 birthed in Tucson, and then Earth First was a victim 1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:47.360 of the green scare and many of them are still 1:07:47.360 --> 1:07:50.560 in prison for their work. But they did have an effect. 1:07:50.920 --> 1:07:53.040 Whether you agree with that sort of direct activism or not, 1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:55.880 they had an effect. But here we are, it's been 1:07:55.960 --> 1:07:59.480 many years after those big main activities and all that 1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:02.320 stuff became quiet. You don't really think of like direct 1:08:02.520 --> 1:08:06.040 action activism when it comes to the environment like you 1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:08.520 did back in the eighties and nineties. But when this 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:11.240 data center popped up, groups started showing up in Tucson 1:08:11.280 --> 1:08:14.880 that really felt very earth first e I'm not talking 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:18.479 direct action like firebombs, but their speech, the way they 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:22.200 were organizing, coming to city council meetings and not just 1:08:22.240 --> 1:08:25.519 showing up to speak but disrupting the meetings, like causing 1:08:25.560 --> 1:08:29.720 a scene, and their work so far and I will 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:33.839 mention some of them later in this topic have actually 1:08:34.120 --> 1:08:37.840 sort of forced the hand of this city council to 1:08:37.920 --> 1:08:41.639 deny the project. And so looking back, you're like, it's 1:08:41.680 --> 1:08:44.320 interesting to see the residents of things like those old 1:08:44.400 --> 1:08:48.320 freeway activists and Edward Abbey and Earth First it's still there. 1:08:48.360 --> 1:08:50.840 Tucson still has that, and you see that coming up 1:08:50.880 --> 1:08:53.479 now in regards to this data center project and other 1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:54.639 things that are starting to happen. 1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:55.519 Yeah. 1:08:55.680 --> 1:08:57.240 I love Tucson and spent a lot of time in 1:08:57.240 --> 1:09:00.360 Tucson for years and ye as years, and there is 1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:04.600 a feeling of like it's got this like DIY community 1:09:04.680 --> 1:09:07.080 feeling that you do not experience. And people think two 1:09:07.120 --> 1:09:10.000 sons in Phoenix, are they just smaller version of the same, 1:09:10.000 --> 1:09:11.240 But they're incredibly different. 1:09:11.479 --> 1:09:13.880 Oh no, yeah, it's hard to describe the difference. You 1:09:13.880 --> 1:09:14.559 have to go to both. 1:09:15.160 --> 1:09:17.360 Yeah, yeah, oh, you could not go to Phoenix. You 1:09:17.360 --> 1:09:19.640 can go almost anywhere else in the US and experience 1:09:19.920 --> 1:09:22.559 the same thing as Phoenix, Right, it's incredibly generic as 1:09:22.560 --> 1:09:22.960 the city. 1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:25.200 Yeah, you know, the Phoenix is an old place too. 1:09:25.240 --> 1:09:27.320 Now as old as too soon, but the very core 1:09:27.520 --> 1:09:31.439 the downtown of Phoenix still has something. However, Phoenix was 1:09:31.479 --> 1:09:34.759 never good about preserving any of its historicity or historical content, 1:09:34.800 --> 1:09:36.800 and so they never saw a building old enough or 1:09:36.840 --> 1:09:38.920 cool enough that they didn't care about bulldozing it and 1:09:38.960 --> 1:09:42.280 putting up a Walgreens. Yeah, and so Phoenix is as 1:09:42.600 --> 1:09:44.320 I forgot what documentary it was, but it was like 1:09:44.360 --> 1:09:46.960 what you just described so many American cities. You drive 1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:50.519 to it and it's just like this, like constantly looping 1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:59.160 revolving piece of film of Walgreen, McDonald's nail salon, super cuts, Chili's, 1:09:59.400 --> 1:10:02.360 rinse and repeat, and it just every ten miles. It's 1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:05.200 the same thing Dutch Brother's coffee. It just never ends. 1:10:05.560 --> 1:10:08.559 And Tucson is not yet like that. It still has 1:10:08.760 --> 1:10:09.519 still has a soul. 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:12.080 Yeah, there are special places in Phoenix who say, like 1:10:12.080 --> 1:10:15.320 Guadaloupe is cool. When my yagie friends live said this 1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:17.200 is nice, Sarah, I like getting there. Let's take a 1:10:17.240 --> 1:10:19.800 little break and talk about how Tucson and Posts is 1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:20.479 data center. 1:10:31.200 --> 1:10:34.200 So there are a number of groups that came togethers 1:10:34.640 --> 1:10:36.519 if you can't track everything all at once, because it's 1:10:36.520 --> 1:10:38.080 not possible to human being. But the one I've been 1:10:38.560 --> 1:10:41.559 keeping eye on and communicating with is called No Desert 1:10:41.640 --> 1:10:44.080 Data Center. They have a presence on the web. They're 1:10:44.080 --> 1:10:47.400 all over social media Facebook, Instagram, and for me at least, 1:10:47.400 --> 1:10:50.040 And this is not to exclude anyone. If if you're 1:10:50.080 --> 1:10:52.080 one of the primary people or groups that we're working 1:10:52.120 --> 1:10:54.400 against this and you heard this, please do not feel 1:10:54.640 --> 1:10:56.400 like I'm excluding you. This is just the group that 1:10:56.479 --> 1:10:59.479 I landed up connecting with and following. So but they 1:10:59.479 --> 1:11:01.840 are also doing a good job of aggregating others too. 1:11:01.920 --> 1:11:03.880 So almost all of their posts have like a bunch 1:11:03.880 --> 1:11:05.680 of other groups tagged in it. So if you were 1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:08.120 to look up the No Desert Data Center folks, you're 1:11:08.120 --> 1:11:09.040 going to find a. 1:11:08.920 --> 1:11:09.400 Lot of them. 1:11:09.600 --> 1:11:11.679 But they had some amazing artwork. 1:11:11.760 --> 1:11:11.960 You know. 1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:14.240 One of the things that I think is really important 1:11:14.240 --> 1:11:17.160 in activism is getting the attention of the local community. 1:11:17.640 --> 1:11:18.599 Artwork will do that. 1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:21.280 So if they're this incredible poster that's like says no 1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:23.840 drop for data and it's a water drop with a 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:27.320 rattlesnake and havalina and a solaro and they had a 1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:32.440 rattlesnake wrapped around a rain drop, Like really good stuff. 1:11:32.160 --> 1:11:33.640 That catches your eye. 1:11:33.920 --> 1:11:36.280 So they were doing that, but they were also getting 1:11:36.280 --> 1:11:40.240 people together. They were having meetings, planning sessions before city 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:43.920 council meetings, getting people together, doing the artwork there, rallying 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:46.400 the troops, for lack of a better term, building morale. 1:11:46.680 --> 1:11:50.200 You don't have activism without morale. And then they were 1:11:50.240 --> 1:11:52.880 showing up and showing up in numbers. There's videos on 1:11:52.920 --> 1:11:56.719 Instagram on their feet alone, where one of these city 1:11:56.760 --> 1:11:59.559 council meetings had over one thousand twosonians in it with 1:12:00.479 --> 1:12:03.439 and posters. And they weren't just sitting there quietly waiting 1:12:03.439 --> 1:12:06.559 for their thirty seconds to speak. They were disruptive, they 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:09.240 were loud, and they were not going to not be heard. 1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:13.599 So that type of activism in this instance very clearly 1:12:13.720 --> 1:12:15.719 is the reason that this happened. Because if you read 1:12:16.439 --> 1:12:19.599 the writings of a number of the city council members, 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:23.320 they were very sympathetic to the data center. One of 1:12:23.360 --> 1:12:25.920 them was talking about like, this is the wrong thing 1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:28.280 to do. If we block the data center, they're just 1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:30.120 going to build it anyway, and it's better for us 1:12:30.120 --> 1:12:33.040 to be involved because then we can help tune it 1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:35.880 to be better for the community. No no, no, no, no, 1:12:36.200 --> 1:12:40.559 you're just whitewashing a horrible thing. And so this group 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:42.760 and other groups called them out on that immediately. Nice, 1:12:42.800 --> 1:12:46.200 So like, no, that's not it. So I think I'm 1:12:46.200 --> 1:12:49.280 answering your question. But it groups like this, Yeah, throwing 1:12:49.360 --> 1:12:53.680 up in large numbers, being loud, not only online but 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:54.360 in person. 1:12:54.800 --> 1:12:57.080 That forced their hand. That's craz show. Yeah. 1:12:57.160 --> 1:12:59.519 Yeah, it's people actually being willing to get out of 1:12:59.520 --> 1:13:01.960 the tweets into the streets, so to speak, to like 1:13:02.120 --> 1:13:04.400 actually show up in this case of these meetings. But 1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:06.559 it doesn't have to just be meetings, right, it could 1:13:06.560 --> 1:13:10.200 be anywhere. I guess Luis should just talk about like Tucson. 1:13:10.400 --> 1:13:12.960 It's from an audhum word. It means dark corner, but 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:15.479 it is not a cool place. It is cool in 1:13:15.520 --> 1:13:18.479 the Phoenix. Actually, let's hot that, like this data center 1:13:18.520 --> 1:13:21.080 would have consumed a massive amount of energy I presumed, 1:13:21.160 --> 1:13:24.719 like just keeping the computers cooled, right, and a massive 1:13:24.720 --> 1:13:25.639 amount of water. 1:13:25.479 --> 1:13:25.920 To do that. 1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:28.919 Absolutely, So when you start talking about heat, for example, 1:13:28.960 --> 1:13:31.519 I think it's worth I know we don't have infinite 1:13:31.520 --> 1:13:33.680 time here on this podcast, but it's worth noting for 1:13:33.720 --> 1:13:36.240 people that are not familiar with the concept of heat islands. 1:13:36.400 --> 1:13:36.639 Yeah. 1:13:36.800 --> 1:13:41.360 Heat islands are where you build so much metropolitan infrastructure, 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:46.479 including asphalt and concrete, with no botboards, heat or cooling. 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:49.160 You really don't like Phoenix was built without thinking about that. 1:13:49.479 --> 1:13:51.720 They're thinking about it now, but it wasn't built thinking 1:13:51.720 --> 1:13:54.679 about it when it sprawled, and it was continually was sprawl. Yeah, 1:13:54.840 --> 1:13:58.559 Phoenix was always a little harder than TuS just because 1:13:58.600 --> 1:14:02.160 of like you know, gigra apphical reasons. But now Phoenix 1:14:02.360 --> 1:14:06.960 is measurably and demonstrably hotter because it never cools off. 1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:08.200 And that's a heat island. 1:14:08.240 --> 1:14:11.040 So what happens is during the day, all of that 1:14:11.120 --> 1:14:13.559 I'll create, all that asphalt, all those things heat up, 1:14:13.760 --> 1:14:16.400 and it'll get to at moments like just this last week, 1:14:16.560 --> 1:14:19.559 one hundred and eighteen, one hundred and twenty degree in 1:14:19.600 --> 1:14:22.160 the middle of the day. But because the heat island 1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:24.720 hasn't been architected well and has no green space to 1:14:24.800 --> 1:14:27.640 deal with this, at night, it's still one hundred and 1:14:27.680 --> 1:14:31.120 five Jesus See, it never gets below one hundred and 1:14:31.200 --> 1:14:34.680 So the problem with heat, like obviously one hundred and 1:14:34.680 --> 1:14:37.280 twenty degrees can kill you. But the problem with the 1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:39.680 heat is that as you never get a chance to 1:14:39.760 --> 1:14:43.439 cool off. Heat over time is more dangerous to human 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:46.639 to all living organisms. If you get a break, that's 1:14:46.640 --> 1:14:48.479 what keeps you alive. So it can be one hundred 1:14:48.479 --> 1:14:51.200 and twenty during the day, but if it's seventy five 1:14:51.240 --> 1:14:53.320 at night, that gives you a moment to heal and 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:57.880 recuperate for the next day's heat. Phoenix is one of 1:14:58.320 --> 1:14:59.840 not the worst, believe it or not, but one of 1:14:59.840 --> 1:15:03.200 the worst versions of a heat island, and they are 1:15:03.240 --> 1:15:06.800 actively working to make that better. But it's kind of 1:15:06.840 --> 1:15:10.160 hard to undo what's been done. Yeah, Tucson, once again, 1:15:10.280 --> 1:15:13.280 because the sprawl is diminished by activism of the past, 1:15:13.720 --> 1:15:16.320 did not become the heat island Phoenix does. So while 1:15:16.320 --> 1:15:18.559 it might be one hundred and thirteen during the day, 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:21.040 it might get down to eighty at night. Yeah, and 1:15:21.080 --> 1:15:25.120 that really is a big difference for not only sustainability, 1:15:25.400 --> 1:15:27.840 but for the health and safety of everyone that lives there. 1:15:28.360 --> 1:15:30.160 One of the things that I find is interesting is 1:15:30.200 --> 1:15:33.880 the justification for these data centers is because Arizona is 1:15:33.920 --> 1:15:38.360 seen as a place that doesn't have significant natural disaster risk. 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:40.600 But one of the things that's being left out of 1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:42.599 the conversation I don't know why this is the case. 1:15:43.040 --> 1:15:46.639 Is that heat and heat islands are a natural disaster. 1:15:46.920 --> 1:15:49.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah, they kill people. 1:15:49.520 --> 1:15:51.479 If the power were to go out in Phoenix at 1:15:51.520 --> 1:15:54.840 the wrong time of year, the death toll is hard 1:15:54.840 --> 1:15:55.600 to fathom. 1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:59.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without air conditioning, it's unsurvivable in those 1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:03.280 temperatures fifty for older people, people medically conditioned to what 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:03.559 have you. 1:16:03.920 --> 1:16:06.800 Anyone at risk, the unhoused is one example, of course, 1:16:06.800 --> 1:16:08.960 which they don't even do proper metrics and measuring of 1:16:09.080 --> 1:16:13.280 because our society doesn't care like it should. However, outside 1:16:13.280 --> 1:16:15.240 of that, you said people that are at risk, anyone 1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:17.519 that has any sort of illness, the young, the elderly, 1:16:18.280 --> 1:16:20.040 anyone like that. They have to live in their air 1:16:20.040 --> 1:16:21.479 conditioned spaceship to survive. 1:16:22.200 --> 1:16:22.439 Yeah. 1:16:22.600 --> 1:16:24.519 Yeah, and it would have taken it, like you say, 1:16:24.920 --> 1:16:28.240 a huge amount of cooling just to keep this data center. 1:16:28.680 --> 1:16:30.960 Well, that's where this gets so fascinating when they start 1:16:31.000 --> 1:16:34.280 proposing these because like, oh, let's be realistic, right, Arizona 1:16:34.360 --> 1:16:37.800 is probably low risk for a dramatic earthquake or a hurricane. 1:16:37.600 --> 1:16:38.080 That's fair. 1:16:38.360 --> 1:16:40.240 Yeah, However, it is not a low risk for a 1:16:40.280 --> 1:16:43.240 heat casualty event, which is going on every year and 1:16:43.240 --> 1:16:47.360 getting worse, yeah, with climate change. And so these data centers, 1:16:47.560 --> 1:16:50.880 the one in twoson that was proposed, would have consumed 1:16:51.280 --> 1:16:54.559 and the numbers fluctuate, and the course the numbers you 1:16:54.560 --> 1:16:57.720 get from the Amazon crew versus others will be a 1:16:57.760 --> 1:17:00.840 little different. But as best as I can tell, the 1:17:01.360 --> 1:17:04.400 power consumption of this one data center was essentially the 1:17:04.439 --> 1:17:08.960 equivalent of that of metropolitan Tucson. Pieces yeah, so you 1:17:09.080 --> 1:17:12.880 double the power load of the entire city for this 1:17:13.000 --> 1:17:16.840 data center. And the cooling system there's two different ways 1:17:16.840 --> 1:17:19.439 to cool there's quote unquote air cooled and water cooled. 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:22.000 They can tell you whatever they want. The reality is 1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:24.040 they're probably not going to be affected with air cooled 1:17:24.080 --> 1:17:26.000 in this environment, so it's going to be water cooled. 1:17:26.360 --> 1:17:30.120 And the data on that also seems to be the 1:17:30.160 --> 1:17:34.080 water consumption of this was not only equal, maybe worse 1:17:34.720 --> 1:17:38.880 than that of Tucson itself. Looking at this site right now, 1:17:38.960 --> 1:17:41.760 water positivity claim for the initial two years, but the 1:17:41.800 --> 1:17:46.519 initial estimate was six hundred and twenty two million gallons. Whoa, yeah, yeah, 1:17:46.880 --> 1:17:51.479 with a seven hundred milliwat expected demand, it's crazy. And 1:17:51.520 --> 1:17:54.559 so what happens is not only does the city council 1:17:54.720 --> 1:17:59.600 just see dollar signs in their eyes? Local electrical infrastructure 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:03.679 TEP the two soon electrical or other data center places 1:18:03.680 --> 1:18:07.799 where data centers are located suddenly do things like stop 1:18:07.840 --> 1:18:11.439 worrying about any form of arbon positivity, or they get 1:18:11.520 --> 1:18:13.479 rid of all their carbon goals so that they can 1:18:13.600 --> 1:18:16.519 build and work with people like this, Because if you 1:18:16.640 --> 1:18:19.640 double the power consumption of a region overnight for a 1:18:19.720 --> 1:18:23.080 data center, yeah, think of the waste that you're going 1:18:23.120 --> 1:18:26.439 to produce to do that, right, Yeah, And suddenly how 1:18:26.439 --> 1:18:28.320 do you produce that power. You're not going to have 1:18:28.360 --> 1:18:31.320 a nuclear plant pop up tomorrow, so you're going to 1:18:31.360 --> 1:18:34.640 do other things like burn more coal. Yeah, and so 1:18:35.120 --> 1:18:39.000 your carbon and carbon positivity or attempt to move away 1:18:39.000 --> 1:18:41.639 from carbon waste, they just throw that out the door 1:18:41.680 --> 1:18:44.920 so they can have these lucrative, juicy contracts with these 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:45.840 data centers. 1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:49.400 Yeah, yeah, that is I mean, it's just on the 1:18:49.400 --> 1:18:50.680 face of it. When I heard of it, I was 1:18:50.720 --> 1:18:52.360 just like, why are they doing this in the one 1:18:52.400 --> 1:18:55.840 of the hottest places you know, in the region. But 1:18:55.960 --> 1:18:58.719 I guess yeah, they don't see heat as a threat. 1:19:00.040 --> 1:19:01.439 Having spent a lot of time in the desert there 1:19:01.439 --> 1:19:03.919 I can tell you it is a threat to human life. 1:19:04.320 --> 1:19:08.479 So as of last week, right, the council has refused 1:19:08.479 --> 1:19:11.160 it permission to be built in Tucson. 1:19:11.520 --> 1:19:16.080 Due to intense external pressure. Yeah, they did vote against it. 1:19:16.080 --> 1:19:19.599 Yes, yeah, so that's like it's a victory. I guess 1:19:19.600 --> 1:19:21.000 it's a victory in a battle, but it's not the 1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:21.599 end of the war. 1:19:21.840 --> 1:19:22.320 Oh No. 1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:25.360 That's the problem with all this is that these companies 1:19:25.479 --> 1:19:28.200 and these folks will never stop. 1:19:28.680 --> 1:19:30.280 So I just saw an. 1:19:30.240 --> 1:19:34.479 Article in fact that two days ago, yes, this project 1:19:34.520 --> 1:19:36.759 was voted down. However they're coming back with just another 1:19:36.800 --> 1:19:39.439 proposal to do it a slightly different way. And so 1:19:39.520 --> 1:19:42.519 each time they just reiterate and change it. It's just 1:19:42.560 --> 1:19:45.720 a new battle, right, so they will change the words 1:19:46.280 --> 1:19:49.719 however they want to make it sound until these people 1:19:49.800 --> 1:19:54.000 will vote yes for it. So like Nikki Lee, which 1:19:54.040 --> 1:19:56.880 is the ward for a councilwoman, was the one that 1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:59.920 was arguing against essentially saying that we should approve the 1:20:00.080 --> 1:20:02.360 projects so we can have better control of it, and 1:20:02.800 --> 1:20:06.080 the activists said against that. But it's just they're just 1:20:06.120 --> 1:20:09.840 going to keep changing the tune until the activists get 1:20:10.160 --> 1:20:13.720 essentially worn out. On top of that, this is not 1:20:13.800 --> 1:20:16.679 the only data center being proposed in Arizona. There are 1:20:16.720 --> 1:20:19.639 currently three of them under proposal. So there's this one 1:20:19.640 --> 1:20:23.040 in Tucson and two of them in Panall County. The 1:20:23.080 --> 1:20:26.759 one in Panall County starts off at the small size 1:20:26.840 --> 1:20:30.680 of three hundred acres, but it's proposed to go to 1:20:30.880 --> 1:20:35.800 three thousand acres. Jesus, They want to build a ultimately 1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:38.760 a three thousand acre data center that sprawls essentially from 1:20:38.840 --> 1:20:44.320 southern Phoenix across the entire north south breath of Pennall County, 1:20:44.600 --> 1:20:48.280 on the west side of the I ten southwest of Elois, 1:20:48.600 --> 1:20:53.439 extending through significant what are indigenous or what were indigenous lands, 1:20:53.880 --> 1:20:57.840 destroying whatever cultural remains are there. But imagine if this 1:20:57.960 --> 1:21:01.160 two hundred and ninety acre data center was going to 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:04.760 equal the power consumption and water consumption of Tucson. What 1:21:04.920 --> 1:21:08.880 is a three thousand acre data center going to do. 1:21:09.280 --> 1:21:12.320 Yeah? Yeah, that's insane. That's just us. 1:21:12.439 --> 1:21:14.919 And that one is currently still in its early phases. 1:21:15.080 --> 1:21:18.479 That one is called the Laosa Project. The CEO of 1:21:18.520 --> 1:21:22.600 this company is named cool Deep Verma. Okay, Verma Vrma, 1:21:22.640 --> 1:21:25.320 I'm not afectioner, that's the right pronunciation. But in another 1:21:25.400 --> 1:21:29.559 example of tech bro narcissism. He's calling this Verma Land, 1:21:29.560 --> 1:21:32.599 and his company is called Verma Land. It's like the 1:21:32.640 --> 1:21:35.880 most awful version of Disneyland. We're not even bringing you rides. 1:21:36.080 --> 1:21:39.360 We're just gonna drink your water belt heat into the sky, 1:21:39.800 --> 1:21:43.920 destroy your desert so you can have a disturbing psychological 1:21:43.960 --> 1:21:47.519 parasocial relationship with an ai avatar. And we're gonna do 1:21:47.520 --> 1:21:50.000 it at your expense. Verma Land, isn't that lovely? 1:21:50.320 --> 1:21:50.719 Yeah? 1:21:50.880 --> 1:21:53.760 Man, I've seen that's weird. They already owned a lot 1:21:53.800 --> 1:21:55.400 of land of the iten I think. 1:21:55.680 --> 1:21:56.040 Mm hmm. 1:21:56.160 --> 1:21:58.719 Yeah, No, they've been They've been purchasing land throughout Arizona 1:21:58.760 --> 1:22:01.000 and sitting on it. But this is where the three 1:22:01.000 --> 1:22:02.880 thousand acres come from. Is Verma Land. 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:07.479 Jesus, Yeah, that is this doesn't mind boggling leave vast 1:22:07.560 --> 1:22:21.360 data center. So I guess like this is one you know, 1:22:21.720 --> 1:22:23.640 as you say, this will either move someone else. So 1:22:23.680 --> 1:22:26.880 there will be other struggles right like the For instance, 1:22:26.920 --> 1:22:30.000 the United States is waving many of the waivers, including 1:22:30.479 --> 1:22:34.679 ones that protect indigenous human remains, to build its border 1:22:34.680 --> 1:22:37.480 infrastructure right now. Actually a lot of the border infrastructure 1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:39.160 is coming out of the U of a tech park 1:22:39.160 --> 1:22:41.719 in Tucson. Rights, that's where a lot of these companies 1:22:42.280 --> 1:22:45.080 have the headquarters, right, the people who make the border 1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:49.360 surveillance infrastructure. What can we learn from this struggle in Tuson. 1:22:49.400 --> 1:22:51.479 If we're not in Tucson, we might not even be 1:22:51.560 --> 1:22:54.760 in the US. Because there are some unique things about Tuson, Right, 1:22:54.800 --> 1:22:58.200 It has this history of activism, and it's always been 1:22:58.640 --> 1:23:00.800 I don't want to use weird in a Rogatree way, 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:03.759 but it hasn't conformed to like the neo liberal capital 1:23:03.800 --> 1:23:06.240 model of a city. But I don't think it's unique. 1:23:06.640 --> 1:23:08.960 There were things I think that anyone can take from 1:23:09.479 --> 1:23:13.040 this victory and the continued opposition, Right, So what can 1:23:13.080 --> 1:23:13.800 we learn from it? 1:23:13.960 --> 1:23:16.360 Yeah, yeah, No, I think that that's a fair way 1:23:16.400 --> 1:23:18.160 to put it in. And I think that speaking of 1:23:18.200 --> 1:23:20.400 like the reverberance of the history of the area and 1:23:20.439 --> 1:23:22.680 the types of movements that came out of there, as 1:23:22.680 --> 1:23:25.720 we mentioned already earlier, make Tucson unique in regards to 1:23:25.760 --> 1:23:30.160 it being at least culturally more ready than someplace to 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:34.560 have this struggle. However, if they do succeed and completely 1:23:34.600 --> 1:23:37.519 stop Project Blue and the two hundred and ninety acre 1:23:37.680 --> 1:23:41.600 data center near Tucson has stopped. It's not going to 1:23:41.600 --> 1:23:44.280 stop there. We see three more data centers being proposed 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:48.559 in Arizona proper, the three thousand acre dream site that 1:23:48.600 --> 1:23:51.639 I've mentioned already is they're just going to keep changing 1:23:51.680 --> 1:23:54.800 and moving and trying to do it somewhere else. The 1:23:55.600 --> 1:23:58.040 reality of this is that when we look back at 1:23:58.040 --> 1:24:02.240 the workers' rights movement right there was the IWW the 1:24:02.280 --> 1:24:06.160 Industrial Workers of the World. The thing is Tucson winning 1:24:06.320 --> 1:24:10.400 one fight against this data center only is a microcosm 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:14.920 of the greater macrocosm of the consumption of these tech 1:24:15.000 --> 1:24:18.320 bros and tech industry people who do not care about 1:24:18.360 --> 1:24:20.519 the climate, do not care about you, do not care 1:24:20.560 --> 1:24:23.240 about the community, do not care about the water they consume, 1:24:23.640 --> 1:24:26.040 and they will destroy everything in their path for profit. 1:24:26.120 --> 1:24:29.519 We know that that is what this form of data 1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:34.080 capitalism is. And so Tucson's lesson is everyone has to 1:24:34.120 --> 1:24:36.840 be this And I agree with you that Tucson isn't 1:24:36.920 --> 1:24:38.840 unique in that there are other places that will have 1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:42.760 the fight, But this is truthfully everyone's fight, because the 1:24:42.800 --> 1:24:44.920 amount of pollution that would be belched out of this 1:24:45.600 --> 1:24:49.800 data center or the ones being proposed in Arizona affects everyone. 1:24:50.160 --> 1:24:54.320 The reality of climate change is, in my opinion, indisputable. 1:24:54.360 --> 1:24:57.720 We're seeing it every year. It's worse, and it is 1:24:57.800 --> 1:25:02.040 human induced or a large degree, unlike some people want 1:25:02.080 --> 1:25:05.920 to deny. Yeah, and having your AI avatar on the 1:25:05.920 --> 1:25:09.000 Internet is not in the interests of humanity as a whole. 1:25:09.080 --> 1:25:10.920 So we have to work on this on a much 1:25:11.000 --> 1:25:12.000 large It's a global issue. 1:25:12.080 --> 1:25:12.960 Yeah, yeah, it is not. 1:25:13.320 --> 1:25:15.360 It is not a local issue, That's what I'm trying 1:25:15.400 --> 1:25:19.880 to say. And these data companies like Amazon, like Google, 1:25:20.320 --> 1:25:22.439 like Apple, although this isn't Apple in this instance, but 1:25:22.520 --> 1:25:24.640 all of them. Yeah, they have the power, if not 1:25:24.760 --> 1:25:26.759 more of power than that of a nation state. 1:25:27.000 --> 1:25:28.880 Oh yeah, Like I think if my friend's in the 1:25:28.920 --> 1:25:32.400 Marshall Islands, right, this small nation state, but one nonetheless, right, 1:25:33.000 --> 1:25:35.800 they will have maybe thirty or forty years before the 1:25:35.920 --> 1:25:38.360 islands around inhabitable due to the rise of the sea level. 1:25:38.840 --> 1:25:42.160 And like their response has been a to double down 1:25:42.200 --> 1:25:44.120 on community and supporting each other. 1:25:44.240 --> 1:25:44.400 Right. 1:25:44.760 --> 1:25:46.719 They also did things like if you go in between 1:25:46.760 --> 1:25:48.640 the islands on an Atoll and the Marshal Islands, den 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:51.360 really used like a Higgins boat, a landing craft from 1:25:51.400 --> 1:25:53.160 World War Two, Right, But they also have these solar 1:25:53.160 --> 1:25:58.200 power canoes now to reduce their footprint. They're a tiny, 1:25:58.920 --> 1:26:01.360 tiny fraction, I know, a single percent of the word 1:26:01.439 --> 1:26:05.240 CO two footprint. And so what happens in Tucson will 1:26:05.280 --> 1:26:09.040 affect them, right, and what they do cannot alone help 1:26:09.479 --> 1:26:12.200 them survive, right, And they've appealed to the world's solidarity, 1:26:12.680 --> 1:26:15.120 made a whole podcast about this, and the world has 1:26:15.160 --> 1:26:17.880 not shown up for them. Right, So, like I think people, 1:26:18.280 --> 1:26:21.040 you're right, like, this is a global struggle. It's one 1:26:21.360 --> 1:26:23.519 that you know. It doesn't stop in Tuson, doesn't stop 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:27.000 in Eloy, doesn't stop in Phoenix, like it stops when 1:26:28.240 --> 1:26:31.000 these data centers, which are antithetical to our survival of 1:26:31.040 --> 1:26:34.000 a species, stop being built for shit that we don't need. 1:26:34.479 --> 1:26:36.600 This is touching on a point that always that frustrates 1:26:36.600 --> 1:26:39.160 me frequently when we talk to people who are at 1:26:39.240 --> 1:26:41.679 least on the right side minded in terms of being 1:26:41.720 --> 1:26:45.479 concerned about our future, and they do the thing right, 1:26:45.560 --> 1:26:47.920 they'll do their recycling, or they'll put up a solar 1:26:47.960 --> 1:26:51.240 panel and all those things. Sure, but and this isn't 1:26:51.240 --> 1:26:53.600 to say that the individuals shouldn't do the ethical and 1:26:53.640 --> 1:26:56.320 moral thing that they can do when they can do it. Absolutely. 1:26:56.479 --> 1:26:58.680 Can you recycle, sure, do it. Can you put up 1:26:58.680 --> 1:27:01.960 a solar panel? Absolutely do that. But the real truth 1:27:02.000 --> 1:27:04.280 and reality of climate change and the destruction of our 1:27:04.400 --> 1:27:07.920 environment and this planet that we all inhabit, it's not 1:27:08.000 --> 1:27:11.280 the individual, it's the corporations is at a nation state 1:27:11.360 --> 1:27:13.799 level and a corporate level that is going to destroy 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:19.120 our small Biosphere one. Ironically, biosphere is we'll talk about 1:27:20.000 --> 1:27:22.560 the experiment is near Tucson. Actually Biosphere two was a 1:27:22.600 --> 1:27:25.679 little experiment that was a self contained nineteen eighties thing 1:27:25.680 --> 1:27:30.639 where these scientists essentially encapsulated themselves in air tight bubbles 1:27:30.840 --> 1:27:33.000 to see if they could live with the CO two 1:27:33.400 --> 1:27:35.360 production that they were creating within it. The truth was 1:27:35.360 --> 1:27:38.080 they couldn't. The ocean turned to algae and they would 1:27:38.080 --> 1:27:41.160 have died. So they learned Biosphere two wasn't going to work. 1:27:41.320 --> 1:27:44.040 But we have bios for one, and the individual doing 1:27:44.040 --> 1:27:47.160 the solar panels or recycling. That's a good thing, and 1:27:47.200 --> 1:27:49.680 that's moral, but that's great, it's something we should do 1:27:49.720 --> 1:27:52.719 if we can. But it's us we have to act 1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:56.400 against the truly destructive forces, and it's the corporations and 1:27:56.439 --> 1:27:58.920 the nation states that are belching destruction into our planet, 1:27:59.320 --> 1:28:03.080 not the individual recycling or not recycling as a soda can. 1:28:03.439 --> 1:28:05.880 Yeah, exactly, And I think it's one of the greatest 1:28:05.920 --> 1:28:11.320 like frauds editor cannots, these corporations amants to put off, 1:28:11.600 --> 1:28:14.800 is to have people attribute blame for climate change to 1:28:14.840 --> 1:28:18.360 the person not recycling that can, not the corporation. 1:28:18.760 --> 1:28:21.519 Yeah. You know, the political spectrum is always challenging, and 1:28:21.560 --> 1:28:23.920 I'm not trying to like point at any one thing, 1:28:23.960 --> 1:28:27.320 but this is where I think we all have our failings, right, 1:28:27.360 --> 1:28:31.480 and I think this is where like progressive space fails often. 1:28:31.520 --> 1:28:33.120 Which is you'll see tone. 1:28:32.920 --> 1:28:35.919 Policing, and you'll see recycling, and you'll see solar panels. 1:28:36.240 --> 1:28:39.760 But the reality is that isn't really doing shit. It 1:28:39.880 --> 1:28:41.920 just isn't in the grand scheme of the numbers. It 1:28:41.960 --> 1:28:44.840 isn't it that data center. Stopping that data center is 1:28:44.880 --> 1:28:47.280 an actual victory. That's something that needs to happen. Yeah, 1:28:47.320 --> 1:28:49.439 and those things need to stop. That kind of stuff 1:28:49.439 --> 1:28:52.639 across the board, not just in Tucson, not just in Arizona, 1:28:52.960 --> 1:28:55.360 but everywhere needs to be a thing where everyone comes 1:28:55.400 --> 1:29:00.519 together and realizes that these people are consuming the very 1:29:01.160 --> 1:29:04.360 planet that we need to live on. You see Elon 1:29:04.439 --> 1:29:06.640 Musk talking about going to Mars. We got with the 1:29:06.760 --> 1:29:09.679 human race has to go to Mars because a meteor 1:29:09.800 --> 1:29:13.240 might hit the Earth. No, your company is what hit 1:29:13.280 --> 1:29:15.880 the earth, my friend, You're the one destroying the Earth, 1:29:16.200 --> 1:29:17.240 not that meteor. 1:29:17.840 --> 1:29:19.360 Yeah. Yeah, it's not external. 1:29:19.400 --> 1:29:22.479 And they like the you know, it's it's coming from within, right, 1:29:22.680 --> 1:29:24.519 And it is if you say, like it did the 1:29:24.640 --> 1:29:26.120 species level threat to us? 1:29:26.560 --> 1:29:28.479 The calls literally coming from inside the house. 1:29:28.720 --> 1:29:33.240 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But we should 1:29:33.240 --> 1:29:35.439 also celebrate these victories and lemp in them. Right, So 1:29:35.600 --> 1:29:38.759 if people are interested in learning more about the struggling 1:29:38.760 --> 1:29:41.920 in Tucson, perhaps they're they're living in Phoenix and they're 1:29:41.960 --> 1:29:45.240 just now learning about vermaaland right or these other AI projects, 1:29:45.280 --> 1:29:47.400 Like why can they find out more about this? How 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:48.560 can they involve themselves? 1:29:49.080 --> 1:29:51.439 Yeah, so I want to first of all, I don't 1:29:51.600 --> 1:29:53.280 I hope that I didn't come across as saying like 1:29:53.320 --> 1:29:53.960 this is hopeless. 1:29:54.000 --> 1:29:54.680 I don't think it is. 1:29:54.720 --> 1:29:57.160 Like when you see the actions of like what made 1:29:57.160 --> 1:29:59.680 two soon unique now and we saw the actions of 1:29:59.680 --> 1:30:01.679 what Earth the Thirst was able to achieve through their 1:30:01.960 --> 1:30:04.599 decades of work which they did achieve a lot. It 1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:07.000 resonates still to this day. The planet is a better 1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:09.439 place because those people paid a price to do what 1:30:09.479 --> 1:30:12.840 they did. And that's just something that never stops, is 1:30:12.880 --> 1:30:15.599 what it boils down to. Yeah, these companies, these people 1:30:15.640 --> 1:30:20.000 will never stop trying to destroy our home for their profit. 1:30:20.360 --> 1:30:22.120 So that's the point I was trying to make. 1:30:22.200 --> 1:30:24.280 And so this was a success and we should celebrate that. 1:30:24.360 --> 1:30:26.720 Like you said, the one I want to reference is 1:30:27.320 --> 1:30:30.840 No Desert Datacenter dot Com. Again, I want to very 1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:33.160 much point out they are not the only ones. Many 1:30:33.160 --> 1:30:35.280 people came together. They're the one I have really been 1:30:35.320 --> 1:30:38.560 paying attention to. If you go to No Desert Datacenter 1:30:38.640 --> 1:30:41.440 dot com, they have links to all their socials Instagram, 1:30:41.520 --> 1:30:44.160 Blue Sky, Facebook, and if you go to any of those, 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:48.240 their Instagram is particularly active and has some great motivational 1:30:48.320 --> 1:30:50.479 art on it. I will tell you that they will 1:30:50.520 --> 1:30:52.479 also link you to a number of other. 1:30:52.439 --> 1:30:53.679 Organizations at the same time. 1:30:53.960 --> 1:30:56.840 Yeah, so if you're interested in this particular issue of 1:30:56.880 --> 1:31:00.760 these data centers in Arizona, I would reference you to that. 1:31:00.800 --> 1:31:02.360 You can go to their link tree, which is also 1:31:02.439 --> 1:31:04.840 linked from their Instagram and that'll connect you to a 1:31:04.920 --> 1:31:07.599 number of other organizations that are working on this right 1:31:07.640 --> 1:31:12.040 now and to their merit the Project Blue. They succeeded 1:31:12.040 --> 1:31:15.599 at least delaying Project Blue, hopefully stopping it. Yeah, and 1:31:15.640 --> 1:31:17.639 the next post they put up was about the data 1:31:17.640 --> 1:31:20.639 center in Eloy, so they understand that this is broader 1:31:20.640 --> 1:31:22.599 in scope than just one desert. 1:31:22.720 --> 1:31:23.840 Yeah, data center. That's great. 1:31:24.240 --> 1:31:26.800 Yeah, it's like it was in the movie There Will 1:31:26.840 --> 1:31:29.559 be Blood if you ever saw that. There's an amazing line. 1:31:29.600 --> 1:31:32.840 Of course, I drink your milkshake if you drink the 1:31:32.880 --> 1:31:36.040 water south of Tucson or don't. Yeah, but then put 1:31:36.040 --> 1:31:38.360 a data center just north of Tucson. It doesn't matter. 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:39.400 It's the same watershed. 1:31:39.520 --> 1:31:41.920 Yeah, yeah, right, it's the same same problem. 1:31:42.280 --> 1:31:45.760 So no desert datacenter dot com And that'll get you 1:31:45.800 --> 1:31:47.640 to a bunch of different links and a bunch of 1:31:47.680 --> 1:31:49.040 updates about what's going on with this. 1:31:49.360 --> 1:31:51.519 Perfect and god, if people want to follow your weg 1:31:51.640 --> 1:31:53.320 I mean, you have a presence on the internet. 1:31:53.320 --> 1:31:54.320 Where can people find you? 1:31:54.760 --> 1:31:54.960 Yeah? 1:31:55.080 --> 1:31:58.080 Yeah, yeah, my project is not necessarily about the desert 1:31:58.160 --> 1:32:01.479 data center, but I'm definitely obviously very sympathetic and part 1:32:01.520 --> 1:32:03.240 of that too, just not on my project. I'm in 1:32:03.360 --> 1:32:05.800 Range TV, So if you want to find all my work, 1:32:05.800 --> 1:32:07.960 you can find it by just easily going to Enrange 1:32:08.040 --> 1:32:10.920 dot tv and there's a link on there called watch 1:32:11.280 --> 1:32:13.520 and that'll get you to all my socials. I distribute 1:32:13.520 --> 1:32:17.559 my video content. Decentralized YouTube is the is the line 1:32:17.560 --> 1:32:19.200 in the room must be realistic. But I have my 1:32:19.240 --> 1:32:22.240 content in multiple different places. The easiest way to find 1:32:22.280 --> 1:32:25.439 all of them is range dot tv and you'll find my. 1:32:25.400 --> 1:32:27.600 Socials there too, which is Facebook and Blue Sky and 1:32:27.640 --> 1:32:27.960 all that. 1:32:28.000 --> 1:32:31.160 And of course my topic is more about firearms history 1:32:31.160 --> 1:32:33.960 and civil rights and how they intersect. But if our 1:32:34.000 --> 1:32:36.400 ability to breathe and drink water isn't human rights, I 1:32:36.439 --> 1:32:37.120 don't know what it is. 1:32:37.479 --> 1:32:39.719 Yeah, yeah, I think that's how we should see these things. 1:32:39.720 --> 1:32:42.040 Thank you so much for your time, Kyle. That was great, James, 1:32:42.040 --> 1:32:42.760 thank you for having me. 1:32:42.800 --> 1:32:44.640 I appreciate it's always a real treat to be on 1:32:44.680 --> 1:32:46.600 any of the shows here, and I love all the 1:32:46.600 --> 1:32:49.519 work you all are doing, and together hopefully we can 1:32:50.400 --> 1:32:51.920 I don't know how to put it, stop these corporate 1:32:51.960 --> 1:32:54.960 maggots from eating our not yet corpse of an earth. 1:32:55.280 --> 1:32:55.519 Yeah. 1:32:55.640 --> 1:32:57.920 Then I think it's like I guess I'll finish up 1:32:57.960 --> 1:33:00.600 by saying like, it doesn't matter if we confronting fascism. 1:33:00.600 --> 1:33:04.559 It doesn't matter if we're confronting this destruction of our planet. Right. 1:33:04.920 --> 1:33:07.439 The only way through this is together, and the only 1:33:07.479 --> 1:33:10.800 way that we defeat this is through building stronger communities 1:33:10.800 --> 1:33:13.080 to show up for one another. And that's something that 1:33:13.120 --> 1:33:16.200 you have documented extensively in the historical parts of your channel. 1:33:16.240 --> 1:33:18.679 So I think there is a connection that I hope 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:19.639 people can see there. 1:33:20.320 --> 1:33:23.040 Yeah, community defense is also protecting our planets so we 1:33:23.040 --> 1:33:24.760 can live on it. Yeah, I agree with that, and 1:33:24.840 --> 1:33:27.360 we have to do that together. Thousands of people showing 1:33:27.400 --> 1:33:30.599 up to city council meeting at Tucson is a glimmer 1:33:30.640 --> 1:33:32.960 of light in this moment, and hopefully we can see 1:33:32.960 --> 1:33:33.479 more of them. 1:33:33.680 --> 1:33:35.040 Yeah, all right, thanks Cap. 1:33:54.120 --> 1:33:57.040 Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things 1:33:57.080 --> 1:34:01.880 falling apart this week featuring an entire three sentences about 1:34:01.920 --> 1:34:05.439 putting it back together again. I am your host, Bio Wung, 1:34:06.160 --> 1:34:10.840 and today we are gathered here to talk about tariffs. 1:34:12.360 --> 1:34:15.840 Oh boy, it has been a massive two weeks of 1:34:15.920 --> 1:34:20.320 tariff news, the most important aspect of which has been 1:34:21.479 --> 1:34:24.600 finally getting a resolution to what was going on with 1:34:24.640 --> 1:34:27.360 the Liberation Day turf tariffs that Trump tried to impose 1:34:27.400 --> 1:34:30.040 at the beginning of his time in office. On July 1:34:30.160 --> 1:34:33.599 thirty first, we finally actually found out what those terrorists 1:34:33.640 --> 1:34:35.559 are going to look like, and what those terrorists are 1:34:35.600 --> 1:34:41.559 going to look like is PRISTI ann Effectively, what happened 1:34:41.800 --> 1:34:45.799 is that roughly, if the US runs a trade deficit 1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:48.880 with you, you get a fifteen percent tariff, and you 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:51.240 get a ten percent tariff if we run a trade 1:34:51.280 --> 1:34:55.080 surplus with you. Now there's a bunch of other individual rates. 1:34:55.240 --> 1:34:57.640 We'll get to some of them in a second, but 1:34:57.840 --> 1:35:02.839 it's worth emphasizing that this this doesn't make any sense. 1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:07.320 So okay, before we get into the structural effects of this, 1:35:07.479 --> 1:35:10.879 I want to sort of look at what the nominal 1:35:10.960 --> 1:35:14.519 stated justification for imposing these tariffs are and how they're 1:35:14.560 --> 1:35:16.840 at odds with each other. And this is the point 1:35:16.840 --> 1:35:19.439 where we're turned to later. Part of the justification for 1:35:19.479 --> 1:35:22.839 the tariffs is that, Okay, they're trying to use tariffs 1:35:22.880 --> 1:35:27.800 to replace the income tax. That's nonsense, it's gibberish. You 1:35:27.920 --> 1:35:30.479 literally cannot raise enough money through tariffs to replace the 1:35:30.479 --> 1:35:33.800 income tax. But okay, that's the thing that they want 1:35:33.840 --> 1:35:37.479 to do. The other nominal justification, and this is what's 1:35:37.520 --> 1:35:41.200 being used in negotiations and is the thing that is 1:35:41.240 --> 1:35:45.559 causing individual tariff rates to randomly sort of be jacked up. 1:35:45.640 --> 1:35:49.080 Is that Trump is pissed off that the US runs 1:35:49.120 --> 1:35:53.200 trade deficits with countries. And again, like this is basically nonsense. 1:35:53.240 --> 1:35:55.840 The US pays for things in its own currency. We 1:35:55.880 --> 1:35:58.840 don't actually need other places currency. It doesn't matter if 1:35:58.880 --> 1:36:02.639 you run trade deficits. I really hate that Rand Paul 1:36:03.080 --> 1:36:05.599 is right when he said I run a trade deficit 1:36:05.640 --> 1:36:08.479 with my grocery store. But like, that's how the American 1:36:08.520 --> 1:36:11.920 Empire is supposed to work. These people do not care 1:36:12.080 --> 1:36:14.000 that this is how the American Empire is supposed to work. 1:36:14.040 --> 1:36:17.200 They have been handed the most sophisticated imperial machinery that 1:36:17.240 --> 1:36:20.040 has ever existed in the entirety of human history, and 1:36:21.000 --> 1:36:23.800 they see numbers on a chart which says we pay 1:36:23.840 --> 1:36:26.240 them more money than we're getting and they're pissed about it. 1:36:27.040 --> 1:36:29.920 But again, okay, if that's a state of justification, right, 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:33.200 then why are you imposing a terra fun countries? We 1:36:33.240 --> 1:36:35.719 have a trade ser plus two that doesn't make any sense, 1:36:35.720 --> 1:36:38.479 and the difference between them is only five percent, So 1:36:38.920 --> 1:36:42.040 what are we doing here? It's nonsense, like our trade 1:36:42.080 --> 1:36:46.360 policy is being run by people who don't understand how 1:36:46.400 --> 1:36:48.760 any of this works and are operating off of, you know, 1:36:48.800 --> 1:36:53.040 effectively just pure anger and rage. So I'm going to 1:36:53.120 --> 1:36:56.360 talk about a few of the really really high rates. 1:36:56.600 --> 1:36:58.040 We're not going to focus on much on the thirty 1:36:58.040 --> 1:37:02.920 percent South Africa, for example, but oh boy, so Syria 1:37:03.080 --> 1:37:06.960 is at forty one percent, which is absolutely fucking hideous. 1:37:07.680 --> 1:37:11.200 Syria is a country that I don't know anyone who 1:37:11.200 --> 1:37:13.040 listens to this show is aware of the extent to 1:37:13.040 --> 1:37:16.160 which Syria has been devastated by the civil war, and 1:37:16.240 --> 1:37:21.320 this is an incredible blow to their economy. Laus and 1:37:21.400 --> 1:37:25.080 Me and Mar are also being terriffed at forty percent. 1:37:25.760 --> 1:37:29.000 And we promised in the executive disorder to explain how 1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:33.240 Trump recognizing the junta so Joe Biden had refused to 1:37:33.320 --> 1:37:37.599 recognize me and Mar's like military coup government. As long 1:37:37.680 --> 1:37:39.880 time listeners of this show are aware, there is a 1:37:39.920 --> 1:37:42.840 military coup in in memr There is a large gale 1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:46.479 revolutionary process attempting to overthrow this government. My co host 1:37:46.560 --> 1:37:49.920 James Stout and Robert Evans have done a lot of 1:37:50.000 --> 1:37:52.120 very good reporting on this that you can go find. 1:37:52.200 --> 1:37:54.600 You should find is some of the best journalism that 1:37:54.640 --> 1:37:58.400 I've ever encountered. But the US's official position has been 1:37:58.400 --> 1:38:00.760 that we don't recognize the coup government because it is, 1:38:00.800 --> 1:38:05.439 and this is true, a coup government. But Trump just 1:38:05.680 --> 1:38:07.719 sent the junta a letter of that says you're tariff 1:38:07.800 --> 1:38:09.200 to forty percent. And the thing about this is the 1:38:09.280 --> 1:38:12.240 junta was like, oh shit, hell yeah, Like that means 1:38:12.280 --> 1:38:14.800 you recognize us, right, because you're sending us official fucking 1:38:15.160 --> 1:38:18.200 notices of shit. So you're recognizing US as the legitimate 1:38:18.200 --> 1:38:20.200 government of me and mar And so the junta is 1:38:20.240 --> 1:38:23.880 like thrilled by this. There's some evidence of like the 1:38:24.000 --> 1:38:27.000 US lifting sanctions on them after. It's kind of messy, 1:38:27.360 --> 1:38:31.360 but yeah, great. Somehow, in the attempts to sort of 1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:35.360 just like squeeze every last drop out of all of 1:38:35.400 --> 1:38:39.600 these countries, we have recognized an incredibly brutal military dictatorship. 1:38:40.040 --> 1:38:43.840 Hate that back to the more direct tariff stuff. The 1:38:43.880 --> 1:38:46.479 tariff's on Laos is also going to be devastating for 1:38:46.800 --> 1:38:50.439 Lahosian economy, which is a lot of the economies in 1:38:50.479 --> 1:38:55.599 Southeast Asia are pretty heavily export driven, and it's one 1:38:55.640 --> 1:38:58.800 of the places where a lot of textiles manufacturing takes place. 1:38:58.920 --> 1:39:02.320 After the sort of increase in labor prices and increase 1:39:02.360 --> 1:39:04.960 in resistance from the labor movement in China kind of 1:39:05.840 --> 1:39:08.840 pushed all of that capital down the make Coung River delta. 1:39:09.560 --> 1:39:13.240 This is going to absolutely fucking suck for everyone in Laos. 1:39:13.320 --> 1:39:15.120 And you know, this is something I want to keep 1:39:15.160 --> 1:39:18.840 emphasizing over and over again that these turf teriffs, people 1:39:18.920 --> 1:39:22.439 they hurt the most are workers in places like Laos, 1:39:22.439 --> 1:39:26.040 in places like Syria. Right, Hugoid should just be absolutely 1:39:26.080 --> 1:39:31.679 fucking devastated by it. Now, let's also talk Switzerland, which 1:39:31.760 --> 1:39:34.000 was the other country that had a terriff at like 1:39:34.040 --> 1:39:39.240 forty percent. This one is genuinely really funny, which is 1:39:39.240 --> 1:39:41.800 that it seems to largely be driven by Trump being 1:39:41.840 --> 1:39:44.479 pissed off of the trade deficit, which is like, compared 1:39:44.479 --> 1:39:46.360 to like the scale of the US economy, the trade 1:39:46.400 --> 1:39:49.559 deficit is like zero dollars. But the funniest part of 1:39:49.600 --> 1:39:51.640 this is that the trade deficit is largely driven by 1:39:51.680 --> 1:39:55.040 gold imports. Now, this is extremely funny because If you 1:39:55.080 --> 1:39:57.960 know anything about the American right, you know that a 1:39:58.000 --> 1:40:00.000 lot of the ways that they did their funding, especially 1:40:00.080 --> 1:40:02.840 when they were sort of building their operations, a huge 1:40:02.880 --> 1:40:05.479 source of their funding is getting their followers to buy gold. 1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:08.479 This was the original Alex Jones grift, right. I think 1:40:08.479 --> 1:40:10.280 he still does it a little bit now, before he 1:40:10.360 --> 1:40:12.880 sort of pivoted in supplements. You would partner with like 1:40:12.960 --> 1:40:15.559 gold salesman and like silvia salesman. This and this has 1:40:15.600 --> 1:40:18.040 always been a huge source of these people's money. Now 1:40:18.600 --> 1:40:20.640 there's there's been a little bit of decrease in the 1:40:20.960 --> 1:40:25.439 prominence of gold as a thing. Actually, there's a very 1:40:25.479 --> 1:40:29.960 good Folding Ideas video about this incredibly bizarre Idris Elba 1:40:31.120 --> 1:40:33.880 Weird Gold promotion documentary which talks about the ways in 1:40:33.920 --> 1:40:37.479 which gold has been sort of threatened by bitcoin and 1:40:38.240 --> 1:40:40.479 well mostly bitgcoin. But it's like cryptocurrency in general is 1:40:40.520 --> 1:40:43.760 like the scam. You're trying to sell all of these 1:40:43.800 --> 1:40:48.679 sort of weird prepper and like hardline quote unquote sound 1:40:48.800 --> 1:40:52.479 money libertarian y types. But it is very funny that 1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:55.640 this is in effect a self reinforcing cycle, because the 1:40:55.720 --> 1:40:57.040 thing about the price of gold is that it is 1:40:57.120 --> 1:40:59.400 largely determined by how fucked the rest of the economy 1:40:59.479 --> 1:41:01.960 is gold. People who are trying to sell gold are 1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:03.519 trying to sell you on the fact that the economy 1:41:03.560 --> 1:41:06.639 is about to fucking explode. But this is a cyclical effect, 1:41:06.760 --> 1:41:09.679 right where these teriff rates go up and the economy explodes, 1:41:09.720 --> 1:41:12.880 and so people buy more gold from Switzerland, at which 1:41:12.920 --> 1:41:15.559 point are trade balanced with Switzerland gets worse. 1:41:15.600 --> 1:41:18.280 It works, it worse, so any all. 1:41:18.200 --> 1:41:20.200 Other like Swiss watches are another sort of major source 1:41:20.200 --> 1:41:22.320 of export currency, so offf which are again all worn 1:41:22.400 --> 1:41:25.880 by all these fucking maga grifters with their like fucking 1:41:25.880 --> 1:41:28.960 ten thousand dollars watches or whatever, So that one is 1:41:29.040 --> 1:41:32.760 just funny. Trump has also announced and this has not 1:41:32.800 --> 1:41:36.559 gone into effect yet, who fucking knows when if it 1:41:36.600 --> 1:41:39.320 goes into effect, But I think it's worth talking about, 1:41:39.320 --> 1:41:42.519 which is that Trump has been talking about putting a 1:41:42.640 --> 1:41:46.760 one hundred percent tariff on semiconductors unless you invest in 1:41:46.800 --> 1:41:50.600 the US. So Apple sort of in response to this, 1:41:50.720 --> 1:41:53.439 pledged one hundred million dollars in investment in the US 1:41:53.479 --> 1:41:55.559 to build chips. And I think it's also worth looking 1:41:55.600 --> 1:41:59.120 at the ideological underpinnings of this, because a huge part 1:41:59.600 --> 1:42:02.560 of this thing is something that you've been seeing increasingly 1:42:02.600 --> 1:42:06.200 on the right, is this dream of making domestic iPhones. 1:42:06.200 --> 1:42:08.559 And if you look at the people in the tech sector, right, 1:42:08.600 --> 1:42:10.519 the sort of tech billionaires you run all this stuff, 1:42:10.920 --> 1:42:14.080 they're openly fantasizing about like, oh, these like soft weak 1:42:14.080 --> 1:42:16.479 liberals are going to be forced to like work in 1:42:16.520 --> 1:42:20.880 the factories and put iPhones together or whatever. And it's 1:42:20.920 --> 1:42:25.400 worth emphasizing that this is just not possible, right, And 1:42:25.400 --> 1:42:27.880 this is true of a significant number of the things 1:42:27.880 --> 1:42:29.559 that they want these tariffs to do. They're just not 1:42:29.680 --> 1:42:32.639 possible results of the policy levers they're pulling. A couple 1:42:32.680 --> 1:42:35.519 of months ago, I described a sort of similar policy 1:42:35.520 --> 1:42:38.479 thing to this as like they are attempting to scream 1:42:38.520 --> 1:42:41.360 at the moon in order to control the tides. It's like, 1:42:41.400 --> 1:42:44.320 it doesn't work. It's not the right lever. It literally 1:42:44.400 --> 1:42:47.080 can't do what you think it's going to do. And 1:42:47.080 --> 1:42:49.639 it's worth going into why, which is that we can't 1:42:49.880 --> 1:42:53.599 make iPhones here because we don't have the migrant labor 1:42:53.600 --> 1:42:55.479 force to do it. And a lot of you may 1:42:55.520 --> 1:42:57.479 be thinking, oh, well, the US has a lot of 1:42:57.520 --> 1:43:01.599 migrant workers. No, you don't understand China, which is where 1:43:01.640 --> 1:43:03.639 most of these things are built. Even with the tariffs, 1:43:03.640 --> 1:43:05.000 like a lot of you know that there were some 1:43:05.120 --> 1:43:08.120 downcycling of plants, that stuff has mostly been upcycled. Again, 1:43:09.240 --> 1:43:13.639 China has three hundred million migrant workers. That is almost 1:43:13.680 --> 1:43:16.880 the entire population of the United States. Right, we are 1:43:16.920 --> 1:43:22.760 talking about individual plants with two hundred thousand workers. That 1:43:22.920 --> 1:43:25.200 is the low end estimate. By the way of those numbers, 1:43:25.240 --> 1:43:27.559 we don't actually have very good numbers on how big 1:43:27.600 --> 1:43:29.960 some of these fox Con facilities are. The low end 1:43:30.040 --> 1:43:33.640 estimate is two hundred thousand. Right, And again this is 1:43:33.920 --> 1:43:38.280 just in time production. So okay, what does that actually mean? Right? 1:43:38.840 --> 1:43:41.280 This means that the production cycles work on a lot 1:43:41.320 --> 1:43:43.640 of For example, the way that UPS works, right, We're like, 1:43:44.360 --> 1:43:46.719 you have a bunch of people who are effectively seasonal 1:43:46.760 --> 1:43:49.360 or part time workers who only come in when demand increases. 1:43:49.360 --> 1:43:52.240 So for UPS, right, and it's actually a relatively similar 1:43:52.240 --> 1:43:54.760 schedule to the way it works in China. But it's 1:43:54.760 --> 1:43:57.920 like there's these massive surges around the holidays with apples, 1:43:58.040 --> 1:44:02.240 it's more like September November roughly, But it's in order 1:44:02.280 --> 1:44:05.960 to like massively be able to ramp up production in 1:44:06.120 --> 1:44:09.519 time for you know, the sort of like massive holiday 1:44:09.560 --> 1:44:12.320 increase of orders. Right, But in order to do this, 1:44:12.600 --> 1:44:15.280 you need to have a production apparatus where you have 1:44:15.280 --> 1:44:18.320 two hundred thousand workers there, but you can also get 1:44:18.439 --> 1:44:21.320 rid of most of them and they can support themselves 1:44:21.320 --> 1:44:23.640 doing other stuff for the rest of the year, and 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:25.679 then you have to be able to bring them back 1:44:25.760 --> 1:44:29.120 in during peak season. We just do not have the 1:44:29.160 --> 1:44:31.960 populations to replicate this, right, even if you're trying to 1:44:31.960 --> 1:44:34.599 replace it with prison labor. The thing about the American 1:44:34.640 --> 1:44:37.400 prison system is that it's decentralized, right. This is actually 1:44:37.400 --> 1:44:39.959 a key element of how the US economy is structured. 1:44:40.640 --> 1:44:42.839 Prisons are one of the sort of three major sources 1:44:42.880 --> 1:44:45.800 of jobs in rural areas. The other two are like 1:44:46.040 --> 1:44:48.600 Walmart style service jobs, which replaced anything else that was 1:44:48.600 --> 1:44:50.680 in the economy, and the military basis, which is part 1:44:50.720 --> 1:44:52.960 of why you know, like like this is part of 1:44:53.000 --> 1:44:55.599 why rural politics of console reactionary, because like, okay, so 1:44:55.640 --> 1:45:01.920 if your options in the economy are soldier, prison guard, 1:45:02.160 --> 1:45:06.080 service labor, you're gonna generate a bunch of unhinged reactionary bullshit. 1:45:07.160 --> 1:45:10.040 But again, even even though the American prison system has 1:45:10.040 --> 1:45:13.320 a really high population. These people are really spread out, 1:45:13.400 --> 1:45:20.160 and iPhone production requires sort of like mass centralization, right, 1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:22.679 that's the only way to get these things to work. Plus, 1:45:23.000 --> 1:45:25.240 the workers that you're bringing in have to be skilled 1:45:25.320 --> 1:45:27.160 enough to be able to do this shit. And this 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:29.240 is a capacity that's built up in China over the 1:45:29.280 --> 1:45:32.599 course of like decades, right, And we don't really have 1:45:32.720 --> 1:45:35.360 this now that people have tried moving this production to 1:45:35.400 --> 1:45:38.880 other places like Vietnam, for example, the teriff rates there 1:45:38.880 --> 1:45:42.479 are also making this extremely difficult, but it's been really 1:45:42.520 --> 1:45:46.400 really hard to replace. And the other issue, and this 1:45:46.479 --> 1:45:48.719 is a technological issue, not just a sort of issue 1:45:48.840 --> 1:45:52.800 of the systemic elements of the population of China. The 1:45:52.960 --> 1:45:58.040 infrastructure to build microchips in the US doesn't exist. And 1:45:58.080 --> 1:46:01.320 it's not just that the infrastructure to build the chips 1:46:01.360 --> 1:46:03.680 doesn't exist. It's actually way worse than that. And this 1:46:03.760 --> 1:46:06.160 is why all of the attempts and the Biden administration 1:46:06.200 --> 1:46:07.960 has put an enormous amount of money into this. The 1:46:08.040 --> 1:46:10.080 Chinese government also has put an enormous amount of money 1:46:10.080 --> 1:46:12.080 specifically into the microchip angle, and none of them may 1:46:12.120 --> 1:46:13.800 have been able to do it. And part of it's 1:46:13.840 --> 1:46:17.080 technological problem. But part of it is that the machines 1:46:17.120 --> 1:46:20.080 that you need to make the chips don't exist, right, 1:46:20.360 --> 1:46:22.800 But the machines you need to make the machines that 1:46:22.840 --> 1:46:26.080 make the chips also don't exist. And the machines you 1:46:26.120 --> 1:46:28.640 need to make the machines that make the machines that 1:46:28.680 --> 1:46:31.599 make the chips also don't exist. We are so far 1:46:31.720 --> 1:46:33.600 up the supply chain, right, And this is one of 1:46:33.640 --> 1:46:34.880 the you know, one of the things, the thing that 1:46:34.880 --> 1:46:38.960 they're trying to do through sort of like pure politics, 1:46:39.040 --> 1:46:41.439 right through like just like the pure exertion of state power, 1:46:42.120 --> 1:46:45.920 is to reshape the fundamental structural way that the supply 1:46:46.000 --> 1:46:47.599 chain has worked. And the way the supply chain has 1:46:47.640 --> 1:46:52.680 worked is by intense specialization in very very very small areas. Right, 1:46:52.760 --> 1:46:55.479 So Taiwan, for example, becomes the only place basically that 1:46:55.520 --> 1:46:58.960 can manufacture these chips, and that intense specification means that 1:46:59.000 --> 1:47:01.240 like the machines, that the machines that they that are 1:47:01.320 --> 1:47:02.680 used to build this thing are only made by like 1:47:02.680 --> 1:47:04.240 one company in social land, and like machines to make 1:47:04.280 --> 1:47:07.440 those machines, like who the fuck knows where they're built. 1:47:07.600 --> 1:47:10.640 And this is the thing where the technology involves has 1:47:10.680 --> 1:47:12.920 become so complicated and the laborers become so specialized that 1:47:12.960 --> 1:47:15.519 you're dealing with machines that like just straight up not 1:47:15.600 --> 1:47:18.120 many people in the world know how to use, and 1:47:18.160 --> 1:47:20.599 not on the people in the world know how to create, 1:47:21.520 --> 1:47:24.040 and so we're so far up the supply chain, right, 1:47:24.080 --> 1:47:25.479 And this is also if you want to look at 1:47:25.520 --> 1:47:27.559 like what the impact of these terrorists are going to be, right, 1:47:28.160 --> 1:47:31.320 because these supply chains are so specialized, you know, can 1:47:31.439 --> 1:47:33.200 you can think of these supply chains as like incredibly 1:47:33.200 --> 1:47:37.519 complicated machines, right, and any sort of like little rock 1:47:37.600 --> 1:47:39.800 that you throw into the machine, or do you know, 1:47:39.880 --> 1:47:41.840 you throw sand into the machine and suddenly the ball 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:43.880 bearing doesn't work at quite the right efficiency, and so 1:47:44.240 --> 1:47:47.000 things just start breaking down across the entire supply chain. 1:47:47.439 --> 1:47:49.320 And they think that they can just replicate all of 1:47:49.360 --> 1:47:53.280 this with just like pure tariffs and like throwing money 1:47:53.320 --> 1:47:56.000 at it, and no, you can't. These are these are 1:47:56.040 --> 1:47:59.200 actual structural things of how the economy works. Now, do 1:47:59.200 --> 1:48:01.639 you know what else is a structural element of how 1:48:01.640 --> 1:48:04.640 the economy works? Idiots? These products and services and the 1:48:04.680 --> 1:48:19.000 fact that they fund this podcast. Woo, we are so 1:48:19.240 --> 1:48:22.800 back now one of the other kind of terriffts I 1:48:22.840 --> 1:48:26.120 think I've been calling I guess like defiance tariffs. One 1:48:26.120 --> 1:48:27.840 of the things that Tromp administration has been doing is 1:48:27.880 --> 1:48:31.080 threatening to impose a fifty percent teriff on anyone who 1:48:31.120 --> 1:48:34.320 buys oil from Russia. India has been threatened with this. 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:36.840 India's current terrif rate is twenty five percent. They're right 1:48:36.880 --> 1:48:39.000 now threatening with another twenty five percent against in the 1:48:39.000 --> 1:48:42.160 fifty percent. It's sort of unclear exactly who's going to 1:48:42.160 --> 1:48:46.000 back down here. More interestingly, and we've talked a little 1:48:46.040 --> 1:48:49.400 bit about this, Brazil, there is a fifty percent turf 1:48:49.520 --> 1:48:53.360 teriff on Brazil again for refusing to release Bolsonaro, which 1:48:53.400 --> 1:48:56.800 is very funny because this has managed to piss off 1:48:56.880 --> 1:49:01.160 the entire sort of political sphere in Brazil to the 1:49:01.240 --> 1:49:04.120 extent that like Bolsonaro has had to come out and 1:49:04.200 --> 1:49:07.559 announce this because Bolsonaro was getting fucking torn to shreds 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:11.439 by the Brazilian right for being basically a trader, sort 1:49:11.439 --> 1:49:13.519 of lapdog of the US as they're sort of, you know, 1:49:14.160 --> 1:49:18.240 imposing this direct attack on Brazil through this fifty percent tariff. Right, 1:49:18.560 --> 1:49:22.960 it's backfire so spectacularly that like Lula, who was floundering, 1:49:23.479 --> 1:49:25.760 is now writing this incredible wave of sort of anti 1:49:25.800 --> 1:49:28.360 American Brazilian nationalism from both the left and the right. 1:49:29.040 --> 1:49:31.200 So Lula, who is who is again in a pretty 1:49:31.200 --> 1:49:33.560 strong political position because of this, has refused to do 1:49:33.720 --> 1:49:35.920 direct talk to the US because he was like, absolutely 1:49:35.960 --> 1:49:39.040 not fuck this. Here's a quote from Reuters. We had 1:49:39.080 --> 1:49:42.400 already pardoned the US intervention in the nineteen sixty four coup, 1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:44.439 said Lula, who got his political start as a union 1:49:44.520 --> 1:49:47.519 leader protesting against the military government that followed a US 1:49:47.560 --> 1:49:51.040 backed ouster of a democratically elected president. Quote. But this 1:49:51.120 --> 1:49:53.400 is now not a small intervention. It's the president of 1:49:53.400 --> 1:49:56.439 the United States thinking he can dictate rules for a 1:49:56.520 --> 1:50:00.720 sovereign country like Brazil. It's unacceptable. Now. Again, as I 1:50:00.760 --> 1:50:02.760 said in the ed, there's a lot of things now 1:50:02.840 --> 1:50:04.880 that are worth looking at here. Right, we have, on 1:50:04.960 --> 1:50:08.439 the one hand, this direct connection from Lula from you know, 1:50:08.520 --> 1:50:12.040 the sort of subtle CIA backing of military coup stuff 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:16.439 which happens under the table. To you know this just 1:50:16.560 --> 1:50:18.320 like the president of the United States is telling you 1:50:18.400 --> 1:50:21.759 how to run your country. And that is a substantive shift, 1:50:21.880 --> 1:50:25.160 even if like the CIA overthrowing your government like has 1:50:25.240 --> 1:50:27.840 more of a direct political impact on it. Right. The 1:50:27.880 --> 1:50:29.800 thing about the thing about the way American power worked 1:50:29.800 --> 1:50:31.799 was that it was mostly supposed to be under the table, 1:50:32.040 --> 1:50:34.439 and it's not now. It's just it's just out there 1:50:34.479 --> 1:50:37.639 in the open. Right. The premise that the US governments, 1:50:37.680 --> 1:50:39.160 like the president of the United States, should just be 1:50:39.200 --> 1:50:41.439 able to tell another country what to do is the 1:50:41.439 --> 1:50:44.800 fucking premise of American imperialism. And now they're just saying 1:50:44.840 --> 1:50:47.280 it out loud. And it's also worth noting that it's 1:50:47.360 --> 1:50:49.719 not like Lula is some kind of like anti American 1:50:49.800 --> 1:50:53.280 radical right like Lula worked really well in his first 1:50:53.320 --> 1:50:56.920 term in office, which works w Bush, but again because 1:50:56.920 --> 1:50:58.840 of the way that the political wins have shifted here, 1:50:58.920 --> 1:51:01.800 right to the extent that like Bulsonaro has had to 1:51:01.840 --> 1:51:06.080 condemn an attempt to get him released from prison, which 1:51:06.160 --> 1:51:10.000 is so funny because he's doing this. He is, he is, 1:51:10.040 --> 1:51:12.360 he is pushing very hard. Now there hasn't really been 1:51:12.400 --> 1:51:16.679 a response yet for Lula's like call for organized terror 1:51:16.760 --> 1:51:20.280 resistance from China and India and Bricks. I don't know 1:51:20.320 --> 1:51:22.840 if there's going to be. It's worth talking a little 1:51:22.880 --> 1:51:27.400 bit about what Bricks actually is here, So bricks stands 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:31.560 for Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. It was originally 1:51:31.680 --> 1:51:34.280 like an asset class designed by some guys at Goldman 1:51:34.360 --> 1:51:36.920 Sachs who were you know, trying to like classify the 1:51:37.000 --> 1:51:40.880 assets of this kind of like developing economy thing. It 1:51:40.960 --> 1:51:42.400 was like, you know, you can buy bonds and these 1:51:42.400 --> 1:51:45.080 things and maybe you can classify their asset rates together, 1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:49.120 and has kind of become a political alliance. But you know, 1:51:49.320 --> 1:51:51.320 there's a lot of people who will attempt to sell 1:51:51.360 --> 1:51:53.479 you on bricks being the sort of like leftist anti 1:51:53.520 --> 1:51:56.760 imperial alliance, you know, and as a sort of socialist thing. 1:51:56.800 --> 1:52:01.400 And like I will simply ask, right, who is doing 1:52:01.760 --> 1:52:05.040 the socialism here? Right? Is it a butcher of Gujarat? 1:52:05.439 --> 1:52:09.439 Is it she quote we must oppose welfarerism jimping? Is 1:52:09.479 --> 1:52:13.439 it Vladimir? We will show Ukraine true decommunization putin? Is 1:52:13.479 --> 1:52:15.920 it the African National Congress of selling your country to 1:52:16.120 --> 1:52:18.360 Bank of America? Is it the butcher of Haiti? 1:52:18.400 --> 1:52:18.519 Like? 1:52:18.560 --> 1:52:20.800 What are we doing here? Right? Like this is not 1:52:20.840 --> 1:52:23.920 actually a substantively anti American political alliance. India is a 1:52:23.920 --> 1:52:27.360 close American ally. South Africa is a close American ally, 1:52:27.400 --> 1:52:31.479 none of this really makes any sense. It's not a 1:52:31.600 --> 1:52:36.960 substantive political alliance. Really, people periodically make noise about it 1:52:37.000 --> 1:52:40.000 trying to be a substantive political alliance. But like I mean, 1:52:40.000 --> 1:52:43.439 like India and China are periodically like at war or 1:52:43.479 --> 1:52:46.519 like almost at war with each other over the border. Right, 1:52:47.000 --> 1:52:49.200 these are a bunch of countries that absolutely fucking hate 1:52:49.200 --> 1:52:52.400 each other. It's never been a coherent political project. Lula 1:52:52.439 --> 1:52:55.600 is trying to turn it into one, but like I 1:52:55.680 --> 1:52:58.720 fucking I don't think that's gonna work. So, you know, 1:52:58.880 --> 1:53:01.040 that's sort of what's been going on on the front 1:53:01.040 --> 1:53:03.920 to sort of national resistance. But Lula does have, you know, 1:53:03.960 --> 1:53:07.960 a kind of very very large and powerful political force 1:53:08.040 --> 1:53:11.759 behind him domestically to resist this. We'll see what happens 1:53:11.760 --> 1:53:13.800 going forward. It's also worth noting that China has been 1:53:13.840 --> 1:53:17.120 negotiating with the US, and their tariff increases we're supposed 1:53:17.120 --> 1:53:19.280 to go into effect have been delayed for another ninety days. 1:53:19.400 --> 1:53:23.240 So we're stuck in this holding pattern again. But let's 1:53:23.280 --> 1:53:26.680 talk about what this means for the economy, right, And 1:53:27.080 --> 1:53:29.960 I think the very short term answer is that I 1:53:29.960 --> 1:53:34.120 don't think anyone really knows right, Like, the actual macro 1:53:34.240 --> 1:53:39.519 effects of this are things that we've only just started 1:53:39.560 --> 1:53:41.519 to see. No one's ever really tried to model this 1:53:41.600 --> 1:53:44.640 out because there's no reason why it whatever happened, you know, 1:53:44.720 --> 1:53:49.160 And you're starting to see things behind the scenes, like 1:53:49.320 --> 1:53:53.120 medical supplies being incredibly difficult to acquire. You're starting to 1:53:53.120 --> 1:53:56.880 see a bunch of very very weird items and supply 1:53:57.040 --> 1:54:01.400 chains become increasingly difficult to find. But again, the supply 1:54:01.439 --> 1:54:03.040 chains are going to break down in ways that we 1:54:03.120 --> 1:54:05.760 just don't really understand. What is going to happen, and 1:54:05.760 --> 1:54:08.680 what has started to happen is inflation is increasing. I 1:54:08.760 --> 1:54:12.559 want to sort of again review our kind of inflation theory, right, 1:54:12.600 --> 1:54:17.400 which is largely derived from our friends's strange matter sort 1:54:17.400 --> 1:54:20.719 of supply chain theory of inflation. Their uses of inflation 1:54:20.840 --> 1:54:24.439 is that, like, it's not set by just supply and demand. 1:54:24.560 --> 1:54:28.360 It's set by cost plus markup. Because you know, price 1:54:28.439 --> 1:54:32.120 is not set by like an autonomous thing called the market. 1:54:32.240 --> 1:54:35.320 Price is set by like a guy with like a 1:54:35.360 --> 1:54:39.200 price gun. Right, It's directly set by people. And the 1:54:39.200 --> 1:54:42.560 way that those people set the price is you know 1:54:42.640 --> 1:54:44.960 the cost of acquiring the item, plus and markup for 1:54:45.000 --> 1:54:48.240 their profit. Now, one of the sort of fundamental like 1:54:48.360 --> 1:54:50.840 insights here is that price is sort of sticky until 1:54:50.840 --> 1:54:54.960 it isn't, right, which is that like, okay, So the 1:54:55.000 --> 1:54:57.080 actual thing that controls price is sort of like how 1:54:57.200 --> 1:55:03.080 pissed off consumers get at price increases, but also comma 1:55:03.840 --> 1:55:06.520 that is also very very much tied to brand, right, 1:55:06.560 --> 1:55:08.760 And if you raise your prices and consumers get pissed, 1:55:08.840 --> 1:55:10.839 you even if you drop them again, that doesn't necessarily 1:55:10.920 --> 1:55:14.400 mean those people will come back, right. So you know 1:55:14.560 --> 1:55:16.960 a lot of times when they're when when there's price increases, 1:55:17.000 --> 1:55:18.960 companies try to eat it. And that's and that's been 1:55:19.000 --> 1:55:20.960 what's happening with a lot of these things right where 1:55:21.440 --> 1:55:23.720 at each point in the supply chain, people are you know, 1:55:23.720 --> 1:55:26.440 people are having to sort of pay for the tariff parts, right, 1:55:27.080 --> 1:55:29.160 And when someone has to pay for the tariff, they 1:55:29.200 --> 1:55:31.440 increase their prices that they sell it to the next 1:55:31.440 --> 1:55:33.320 person in the supply chain. The next person's supply chain 1:55:33.360 --> 1:55:36.600 increases their prices right now, So the way that these 1:55:36.680 --> 1:55:38.840 terriffs play out, right is that each person in the 1:55:38.840 --> 1:55:41.200 supply chain is doing costless markup, but their costs are 1:55:41.240 --> 1:55:44.920 going up. So your options are either you sell it 1:55:44.920 --> 1:55:47.080 at the same price and you reduce the amount of 1:55:47.080 --> 1:55:49.280 markup you're getting, which is just reducing the raw profit 1:55:49.280 --> 1:55:52.560 you're taking in, or you raise your prices. And these 1:55:52.640 --> 1:55:55.240 things are trying to not raise their prices, and part 1:55:55.240 --> 1:55:57.480 of this is from direct political pressure right like Trump 1:55:57.480 --> 1:56:01.040 has been threatening companies to not raise their prices from 1:56:01.080 --> 1:56:06.880 the tariffs. But prices are starting to increase. And as 1:56:06.920 --> 1:56:09.400 this goes on, and as more and more teriffs come 1:56:09.400 --> 1:56:11.320 into effect, that it becomes more and more difficult to 1:56:11.320 --> 1:56:14.760 evade the tariffs. The prices are going to keep increasing 1:56:14.800 --> 1:56:19.200 because they're driven by these supply chain price increases. So 1:56:19.360 --> 1:56:21.280 you know, cost is going to go up. It is 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:25.400 going to have absolutely devastating impacts on workers across the world, 1:56:25.520 --> 1:56:28.360 primarily not in the US, but the workers who are 1:56:28.400 --> 1:56:30.640 in these export oriented economies are going to have to 1:56:30.640 --> 1:56:35.760 deal with just the absolute horror of large scale economic collapse. 1:56:36.480 --> 1:56:38.360 You know what, who else hopefully doesn't have to deal 1:56:38.400 --> 1:56:40.560 with the absolute horror of large scale economic collapse. It 1:56:40.600 --> 1:56:53.280 is the products and services to support this podcast. We 1:56:53.560 --> 1:56:56.200 are back now. The thing I want to close this 1:56:56.280 --> 1:56:59.400 episode on is not actually a look at the economy 1:56:59.440 --> 1:57:02.680 because I think, you know, we kind of don't know 1:57:02.920 --> 1:57:05.920 exactly what's going to happen with the economy other than bad. 1:57:06.800 --> 1:57:08.600 But there is something that I think we can look 1:57:08.600 --> 1:57:13.280 at that's been broadly ignored or miscovered, which is what 1:57:13.360 --> 1:57:16.720 these tariffs say about the nature of the state. And 1:57:16.960 --> 1:57:19.520 I think what's happening is that we're seeing a fundamental 1:57:19.720 --> 1:57:24.000 change in the way that the state functions from the 1:57:24.040 --> 1:57:28.520 previous sort of neoliberal regime to this like just really 1:57:28.560 --> 1:57:32.960 openly fascist one. And I think the most clear example 1:57:33.000 --> 1:57:35.240 of this isn't necessarily the terriffs, so they are a 1:57:35.280 --> 1:57:41.400 pretty clear example. It's this extremely weird like extortion agreement 1:57:41.440 --> 1:57:45.080 reached between Trump, AMD, and Nvidia. I'm going to read 1:57:45.080 --> 1:57:49.160 this from CBS quote. US chip makers in Nvidia and 1:57:49.200 --> 1:57:52.280 AMD will pay the US government fifteen percent of revenue 1:57:52.320 --> 1:57:55.320 generated by sales of their AI chips in China. A 1:57:55.360 --> 1:58:00.680 White House official confirmed to CBS News this is just 1:58:00.720 --> 1:58:03.720 a shakedown, right, you know. This is part of a 1:58:03.760 --> 1:58:08.360 negotiating process by which originally AMD and Video were going 1:58:08.400 --> 1:58:10.680 to be banned for selling the reiships to China, and 1:58:10.720 --> 1:58:12.600 in order to be allowed to sell these ships to China, 1:58:12.680 --> 1:58:14.480 Trump was like, okay, if you want to do that, 1:58:14.560 --> 1:58:16.840 give us like thirty percent of your revenue, when they 1:58:16.840 --> 1:58:19.360 were like, okay, what if we did fifteen percent? Right, 1:58:20.600 --> 1:58:24.280 this is just a shakedown, and you know it's been 1:58:24.320 --> 1:58:27.400 described as such all over the press, but they're missing 1:58:27.520 --> 1:58:31.720 something fundamental here, which is that the state fundamentally is 1:58:31.880 --> 1:58:32.680 just a shakedown. 1:58:32.880 --> 1:58:33.040 Right. 1:58:34.000 --> 1:58:36.320 The analysis of Trump isn't from the sort of critical 1:58:36.360 --> 1:58:38.520 press has been to view it as corruption. And it 1:58:38.640 --> 1:58:41.760 is absolutely corrupt, right, like, no question about this. It 1:58:41.800 --> 1:58:44.080 is unbelievably corrupt. Like we have people just giving the 1:58:44.120 --> 1:58:47.520 president blocks of fucking gold with an iPhone embedded into them. Right, 1:58:47.560 --> 1:58:53.160 it's it's hideous open corruption. But analysis that looks at 1:58:53.200 --> 1:58:57.600 the Trump administration as corruption of an ideal type, right, 1:58:58.200 --> 1:59:01.480 that looks at it as the transformation of the state 1:59:01.560 --> 1:59:05.440 into something that it fundamentally isn't. That kind of analysis 1:59:05.520 --> 1:59:09.360 is just wrong. The state has always and has always 1:59:09.520 --> 1:59:13.920 only been the localized monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Right, 1:59:14.400 --> 1:59:17.160 That's all it is. That's always ever been. Everything we 1:59:17.240 --> 1:59:19.960 know about the state today, right from the legal system 1:59:20.000 --> 1:59:23.360 to education, to roads, to environmental regulation to the welfare state, 1:59:23.960 --> 1:59:26.760 are all just functions that were tacked on to the 1:59:26.880 --> 1:59:30.240 core monopoly on violence, either as part of a carrot 1:59:30.240 --> 1:59:33.400 and state gambit to maintain control of population or simply 1:59:33.440 --> 1:59:37.600 as a concession to popular force. You can just have 1:59:37.680 --> 1:59:40.720 a state that is a bunch of guys with guns 1:59:40.760 --> 1:59:43.520 who rule purely by fiat and have control over an area. 1:59:43.600 --> 1:59:45.840 That is a state. Everything else that we think of 1:59:45.880 --> 1:59:48.200 as being part of a state is tacked on, and 1:59:48.240 --> 1:59:51.200 trump Ism as a political force has simply reverted the 1:59:51.240 --> 1:59:54.480 state back to a pure mode of extraction. Right, the 1:59:54.520 --> 1:59:57.680 state is men with guns who take shit from you 1:59:57.760 --> 2:00:00.200 to pay for those guns. And it becomes it was 2:00:00.240 --> 2:00:03.920 breasthtakingly clear that this is, you know, how the state 2:00:04.000 --> 2:00:06.800 is functioning Tree and Trump administration, because the Trump administration 2:00:07.320 --> 2:00:10.760 has been slashing benefits while handing tax breaks and giant 2:00:10.760 --> 2:00:13.960 government contracts worth billions of dollars to the tech elite. 2:00:13.960 --> 2:00:16.760 And they've been spending tens of billions of dollars, you know, 2:00:16.840 --> 2:00:18.880 to hand to the men's with guns and to recruit 2:00:19.040 --> 2:00:21.920 new men with guns for the mass deportation regime. Right, 2:00:22.520 --> 2:00:25.520 this is just a pure version of the state as 2:00:25.560 --> 2:00:28.200 an extraction regime, as a regime that fucking takes money 2:00:28.240 --> 2:00:29.960 for you at gunpoint to buy more men with guns, 2:00:29.960 --> 2:00:32.400 so it can take more money from you. Trump Ism 2:00:32.520 --> 2:00:35.040 imagines that you can collect this money to pay for 2:00:35.080 --> 2:00:38.919 the apparatus of violence and terror from just pure extortion 2:00:38.960 --> 2:00:41.480 of foreigners in the working class, you know, And we 2:00:41.680 --> 2:00:43.400 talked about this a bit at the beginning, right, this 2:00:43.560 --> 2:00:46.040 is part of why they want to do tariffs, is 2:00:46.040 --> 2:00:49.000 they think to replace the income tax. You know, the 2:00:49.040 --> 2:00:52.040 income tax is just like absolutely despised by the extra 2:00:52.040 --> 2:00:54.760 state elements of the ruling class because rich people hate 2:00:54.800 --> 2:00:59.400 paying taxes. But there just isn't enough capital to run 2:00:59.520 --> 2:01:01.720 a state life that with unemploying some kind of like 2:01:01.840 --> 2:01:04.480 MMTS money printing, which has alienated a huge part of 2:01:04.520 --> 2:01:08.440 from sosterity coalition because his quote unquote deficit reduction stuff 2:01:08.440 --> 2:01:11.120 hasn't actually produced the deficit. So the people who like 2:01:11.240 --> 2:01:14.480 really really care about that shit ideologically are pissed. But 2:01:14.640 --> 2:01:17.960 also on a fundamental level, this is already how most 2:01:18.120 --> 2:01:22.440 city governments operate, right. They are enormous police budgets extracted 2:01:22.480 --> 2:01:26.160 at gunpoint, either from the city council directly or directly 2:01:26.200 --> 2:01:28.839 from the working class from fees and fines and tickets 2:01:28.880 --> 2:01:32.400 like just leveled at working class people directly. And this 2:01:32.600 --> 2:01:36.960 is something that is a little different from how previous 2:01:36.960 --> 2:01:40.880 regimes of neoliberalism has functions, because those previous regimes of 2:01:40.880 --> 2:01:43.920 neoliberalism did a lot of these same things, but they 2:01:43.960 --> 2:01:47.240 were run through regimes of debt extraction. Right. It was 2:01:47.320 --> 2:01:49.920 you know, it was the imf right coming into your 2:01:49.920 --> 2:01:52.480 country and being like, okay, if you want to pay 2:01:52.520 --> 2:01:55.440 back this these loans that this dictator took out, right, 2:01:55.520 --> 2:01:58.320 you're going to have to like sell your entire fucking 2:01:58.360 --> 2:02:01.240 working class into pe andage so that your entire economy 2:02:01.280 --> 2:02:03.480 is going to be reoriented towards paying this debt back. 2:02:03.960 --> 2:02:07.720 But again, that was debt extraction, base and finance based. 2:02:07.800 --> 2:02:10.480 Trumpism wants to take out the middleman and just straight 2:02:10.520 --> 2:02:11.880 up set give me all your money if you want 2:02:11.920 --> 2:02:16.120 to live. But this is not a particularly smart strategy. 2:02:16.680 --> 2:02:19.280 There's a reason that the state takes on other guises 2:02:19.360 --> 2:02:22.080 than just a man with a gun asking for your wallet. Right, 2:02:23.200 --> 2:02:27.000 A more literal regime, a more direct regime, a regime 2:02:27.040 --> 2:02:29.800 where the violence is just out in the open, invites 2:02:29.960 --> 2:02:32.640 more literal resistance than a sort of symbolic regime or 2:02:32.680 --> 2:02:37.080 a regime that operates through more principles. All regimes of accumulation, 2:02:37.320 --> 2:02:40.480 of dispossession of resources taken by violence to produce more 2:02:40.560 --> 2:02:44.720 violence come to an end. Brick by brick and stone 2:02:44.720 --> 2:02:47.240 by stone. Trumpism too will be torn to the ground 2:02:47.280 --> 2:02:48.960 by the hands of the people who it thought it 2:02:49.000 --> 2:02:49.560 could exploit. 2:02:49.600 --> 2:03:00.440 Forever this has been, it could happen here. 2:03:12.040 --> 2:03:15.160 Welcome back everyone to electile dysfunction. 2:03:15.400 --> 2:03:16.840 Electile. That's a new one. 2:03:16.960 --> 2:03:22.400 Yes, yes, Yes. The podcast about Why President Bad, also 2:03:22.720 --> 2:03:28.200 Why World Bad, also Why America Bad. I'm Robert Evans 2:03:28.200 --> 2:03:35.600 introducer extraordinaire with me today. Garrison, Davis, Mio, Wong, James. 2:03:35.200 --> 2:03:39.480 Stout Eventually special segment from James Stout later in the episode. 2:03:39.760 --> 2:03:44.120 Yes, later, he is being held in custody by the FTC. 2:03:44.440 --> 2:03:45.160 That's not true. 2:03:45.360 --> 2:03:47.520 You cannot say that because that is something that actually 2:03:47.520 --> 2:03:48.640 could happen over time. 2:03:48.760 --> 2:03:50.400 So unfortunately he is not. 2:03:50.520 --> 2:03:53.240 That's why I made it be the FTC. Garrison. 2:03:53.520 --> 2:03:55.800 People will believe us, I don't. People will believe I 2:03:55.840 --> 2:03:57.640 can get arrested by the FTC any day now. 2:03:57.800 --> 2:04:00.000 We could get arrested for the FTC any day now. 2:04:00.120 --> 2:04:02.760 Thanks to the ads that I've been reading for British petroleum, 2:04:03.240 --> 2:04:07.120 even though I exclusively use American petroleum. 2:04:07.600 --> 2:04:11.400 This episode recovering the week of August seven to August. 2:04:11.160 --> 2:04:12.200 Thirteen, yep. 2:04:12.280 --> 2:04:12.720 For note. 2:04:13.040 --> 2:04:15.560 Yes, it's just so we were. I think it's important 2:04:15.600 --> 2:04:17.920 to keep up because, Yeah, if people refer back to 2:04:17.920 --> 2:04:20.400 these episodes, it's good to know what week we're talking about. 2:04:20.600 --> 2:04:23.480 Yeah. I don't usually remember what day it is, so yeah, 2:04:23.600 --> 2:04:25.680 good to do that, good to remember what day it 2:04:25.720 --> 2:04:27.680 is Meyah, you want to start us off? 2:04:28.120 --> 2:04:31.320 Yeah, need I need to issue a correction about Sesame Street. 2:04:31.360 --> 2:04:33.640 I was wrong about Sesame C's structure. Where got a 2:04:33.680 --> 2:04:35.960 very street message from someone who works on the show 2:04:36.680 --> 2:04:38.960 about the way I talked about it being stripped for parts. 2:04:39.280 --> 2:04:42.640 Sesame Street was never actually like ran by PBS. It 2:04:42.760 --> 2:04:47.400 was ran by its own independent nonprofit entity, Sesame Workshop, 2:04:47.440 --> 2:04:50.520 I believe, Yeah, yes, not yeah, I'll called sesme Workshop. 2:04:51.000 --> 2:04:54.080 And so the episodes that were being streamed on HBO 2:04:54.160 --> 2:04:55.760 Max and I think they're now they've now moved to 2:04:55.840 --> 2:05:00.440 like Netflix. Those episodes all did still air on PBS, however, 2:05:00.520 --> 2:05:03.640 Comma the only aired nine months later. But yeah, I 2:05:03.680 --> 2:05:06.200 want to be clear about that. And then Garrison, do 2:05:06.200 --> 2:05:09.040 you want to talk about PBS kind of not existing anymore. 2:05:09.440 --> 2:05:13.320 Well, PBS may still find a way to exist, but 2:05:13.480 --> 2:05:17.480 specifically the Corporation for her Public Broadcasting, which helps facilitate 2:05:18.440 --> 2:05:20.880 the you know, the funding and the structure and the 2:05:20.920 --> 2:05:25.280 operation of things like PBS and your local MPR, after 2:05:25.320 --> 2:05:28.360 being defunded by the Trump administration, is now going to 2:05:28.600 --> 2:05:29.840 shut down completely. 2:05:30.720 --> 2:05:32.960 So yeah, and that's and that's a lot of the 2:05:33.120 --> 2:05:36.040 how a lot of the funding for rural networks particularly 2:05:37.120 --> 2:05:39.320 was able to function. If your PBS network is like 2:05:39.400 --> 2:05:42.080 mostly not funded by that, or they can find other 2:05:42.120 --> 2:05:45.520 funding sources, it can survive, but real bad. 2:05:46.320 --> 2:05:50.280 It's pretty disastrous for public media yep. And like NPR 2:05:50.360 --> 2:05:52.920 specifically and all of its local affiliates are some of 2:05:52.920 --> 2:05:56.480 the best like local news journalism across the country, and 2:05:56.520 --> 2:05:58.360 this is going to be a big hurdle to get 2:05:58.400 --> 2:06:00.720 over with the loss of a of like a giant 2:06:00.800 --> 2:06:03.720 in the not just like the like national media space, 2:06:03.760 --> 2:06:07.440 but like for journalism and as well as children's educational content. 2:06:08.200 --> 2:06:09.640 And it's you know, and it's worth messing to you 2:06:09.720 --> 2:06:13.080 like this is one of the lasts as sort of 2:06:13.160 --> 2:06:15.960 local media and local radio and local newspapers have been 2:06:16.280 --> 2:06:18.480 carved out and got out of business and destroyed a 2:06:18.560 --> 2:06:22.000 venture capital firms. NPR was like one of the last 2:06:22.320 --> 2:06:26.040 local journalism outlets left in a lot of places, especially 2:06:26.080 --> 2:06:32.120 in rural areas, and that's just getting worse. So we 2:06:32.160 --> 2:06:35.000 hate that. Yeah, this has been the Sesame Street correction. 2:06:35.160 --> 2:06:38.839 I deeply apologize to the cast and crew and production 2:06:38.920 --> 2:06:40.240 staff of Sesame Street. 2:06:40.520 --> 2:06:45.440 Yes, sorry, particularly to Grover. Not sorry to Elmo. No 2:06:45.560 --> 2:06:48.440 apologies down, we saw what Almo was tweeting. I'm on 2:06:48.560 --> 2:06:50.360 Larry David's side of that beat. 2:06:51.920 --> 2:06:56.640 For our first main story this week, Let's talk DC. 2:06:57.880 --> 2:07:01.480 On Monday, Trump declared it was a liberation day for 2:07:01.640 --> 2:07:05.520 the District of Columbia to quote unquote take our capital 2:07:05.640 --> 2:07:09.960 back and officially in voked section seven four zero of 2:07:10.080 --> 2:07:12.720 the District of Columbia Home Rule Act to place the 2:07:12.760 --> 2:07:17.000 DC Metropolitan Police Department under direct federal control and order 2:07:17.040 --> 2:07:20.320 the Secretary of Defense to mobilize the DC National Guard 2:07:20.360 --> 2:07:24.920 to quote address the epidemic of crime in our nation's capital. 2:07:25.880 --> 2:07:30.120 Along with this announcement, Trump police a presidential memorandum reading, 2:07:30.160 --> 2:07:32.400 in part quote, the local government of the District of 2:07:32.400 --> 2:07:36.040 Columbia has lost control of public order and safety in 2:07:36.120 --> 2:07:40.240 the city. The mobilization and duration of duty shall remain 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:43.800 in effect until I determine that conditions of law and 2:07:43.920 --> 2:07:48.480 order have been restored in the district of Columbia. Robert 2:07:48.600 --> 2:07:51.720 who in the past have you heard talk about federalizing 2:07:51.760 --> 2:07:52.360 the police? 2:07:53.040 --> 2:07:57.960 Oh gosh, I mean just a Coppola. Guys. There's this 2:07:58.080 --> 2:08:00.960 dude Hitler who you know, worked with a guy named 2:08:00.960 --> 2:08:04.520 Hermann Gering and Heinrich Himmler to do that back in 2:08:04.560 --> 2:08:07.480 the past. But that was in Germany, you know, a 2:08:07.520 --> 2:08:11.840 country totally different from the United States, almost three four 2:08:11.880 --> 2:08:15.200 countries away from US, so not really not really relevant 2:08:15.240 --> 2:08:16.640 at all to anything happening here. 2:08:17.160 --> 2:08:19.240 And we can all resassured it can't happen here. 2:08:19.440 --> 2:08:22.720 Yeah, we're not Germans. We have a lot of Germans, 2:08:22.880 --> 2:08:24.160 but we're not Germans. 2:08:24.640 --> 2:08:27.800 This is part of Jarvin's writing on how to take 2:08:27.840 --> 2:08:30.320 over the government, centralizing the police as one of the 2:08:30.400 --> 2:08:34.880 key steps nationalizing local law enforcement, putting um under federal control. 2:08:35.240 --> 2:08:40.680 And here is another version of an acting such a policy, 2:08:41.960 --> 2:08:47.160 mainly citing this crime epidemic in DC, though according to 2:08:47.760 --> 2:08:52.080 DC Metropolitan Police and their own crime figures, violent offenses 2:08:52.120 --> 2:08:55.120 which peaked in twenty twenty three fell to their lowest 2:08:55.160 --> 2:08:58.120 in twenty twenty four, lowest time in over thirty years, 2:08:58.680 --> 2:09:01.080 and now in twenty twenty five, I've continued to fall 2:09:01.200 --> 2:09:04.080 even lower than that, though. Trump claims that these stats, 2:09:04.160 --> 2:09:06.760 just like the just like the Bureau of Labor stats, 2:09:06.800 --> 2:09:07.960 are all made up. We're all fake. 2:09:08.040 --> 2:09:08.640 We'll get to that. 2:09:08.680 --> 2:09:11.560 These aren't. These aren't real stats, and they're they're they're 2:09:11.560 --> 2:09:15.320 assuming that there's there's been fake fake statisticians who have 2:09:15.400 --> 2:09:18.720 been covering up the real, the real crime wave happening 2:09:19.200 --> 2:09:23.360 across DC and even across the country. Trump cited three 2:09:23.400 --> 2:09:28.240 incidents leading to the federalization of DC police won the 2:09:28.240 --> 2:09:32.120 assassination of two Israeli MC staffers in May, a fatal 2:09:32.120 --> 2:09:35.839 shooting of a Congressional intern in June, and most recently, 2:09:36.360 --> 2:09:40.360 an alleged violent car jacking of the DOGE staffer known 2:09:40.400 --> 2:09:44.640 as Big Balls and a possible future recipient of the 2:09:44.680 --> 2:09:47.480 Presidential Medal of Honor. 2:09:47.200 --> 2:09:47.920 Or or Freedom. 2:09:48.160 --> 2:09:52.120 One of the medal. Yeah, well, you know, big Balls. 2:09:52.240 --> 2:09:55.000 Frankly, it might have some military credentials based on how 2:09:55.000 --> 2:09:58.560 he survived this latest uh, this this latest violent encounter. 2:09:58.880 --> 2:10:00.200 Who's to say this is. 2:10:00.120 --> 2:10:03.760 Salt from a platoon of Romanians. 2:10:03.880 --> 2:10:07.560 Yeah, quite quite. Frankly, I feel like we're only about 2:10:07.680 --> 2:10:10.560 six to eight months out from him getting like commissioned 2:10:10.560 --> 2:10:12.920 as a lieutenant and then them giving him the actual 2:10:12.960 --> 2:10:13.480 medal of honor. 2:10:13.640 --> 2:10:16.680 I'm saying, where I go for his courageous service getting 2:10:16.680 --> 2:10:18.800 beaten up by two fifteen year olds. 2:10:19.000 --> 2:10:24.040 So this latest incident with mister Balls I think is 2:10:24.040 --> 2:10:28.960 his official title at DOT. We're now the Social Security Administration. 2:10:29.680 --> 2:10:31.000 Not related to Ed Bolls. 2:10:31.440 --> 2:10:35.120 Different balls, but very different guys. 2:10:35.120 --> 2:10:38.320 This latest incident with mister Balls seemed to tip Trump 2:10:38.400 --> 2:10:41.280 over though this is something that he has lofted for 2:10:41.400 --> 2:10:44.200 months and months he's been wanting to do this. On 2:10:44.400 --> 2:10:47.240 Tuesday night, forty three arrests were made in DC in 2:10:47.280 --> 2:10:52.640 relation to the federal seizure of police, and fifty officers 2:10:52.680 --> 2:10:55.920 were part of this operation, half from DC Metro Police, 2:10:55.920 --> 2:10:59.240 which are now federalized. So far, only thirty National Guard 2:10:59.280 --> 2:11:03.000 troops have been deployed, but around eight hundred are on 2:11:03.280 --> 2:11:08.360 the way. On Wednesday, Trump discussed extending his control of 2:11:08.440 --> 2:11:12.200 DC police past the thirty day limit. 2:11:12.840 --> 2:11:13.839 Thank you, mister President. 2:11:13.960 --> 2:11:16.960 Your federalization of the police has a thirty day limit. 2:11:17.040 --> 2:11:18.880 Unless Congress acts to extend it. 2:11:18.960 --> 2:11:21.000 Are you talking to Congress about extending it or do 2:11:21.040 --> 2:11:22.560 you believe thirty days is sufficient. 2:11:22.760 --> 2:11:24.840 Well, if it's a national emergency, we can do it 2:11:24.840 --> 2:11:27.800 without Congress. But we expect to be to Congress before 2:11:27.840 --> 2:11:31.800 Congress very quickly. And again we think the Democrats will 2:11:31.800 --> 2:11:33.920 not do anything to stop crime, but we think the 2:11:34.000 --> 2:11:37.440 Republicans will do it almost unanimously. So we're going to 2:11:37.520 --> 2:11:40.480 need a crime bill that we're going to be putting 2:11:40.520 --> 2:11:44.560 in and it's going to pertain initially to DC. It's 2:11:44.600 --> 2:11:47.880 almost we're going to use it as a very positive example, 2:11:48.640 --> 2:11:51.760 and we're going to be asking for extensions on that, 2:11:51.840 --> 2:11:54.480 long term extensions, because you can't have thirty days. Thirty 2:11:54.560 --> 2:11:57.640 days is that's by the time you do it. We're 2:11:57.640 --> 2:12:00.240 going to have this in good shape. And don't forget 2:12:00.360 --> 2:12:03.680 in the border. Everyone said it would take years and 2:12:03.720 --> 2:12:05.000 you'd have to go back to Congress. 2:12:05.040 --> 2:12:06.440 I never went to Congress for anything. 2:12:06.520 --> 2:12:10.400 I just said close the border, and he closed the 2:12:10.440 --> 2:12:12.920 border and that was the end of it. I didn't 2:12:12.920 --> 2:12:15.120 go back to Congress. And we're going to do this 2:12:15.240 --> 2:12:17.760 very quickly, but we're going to want extensions. I don't 2:12:17.800 --> 2:12:19.640 want to call a national emergency if I have to, 2:12:19.760 --> 2:12:23.360 I will, but I think the Republicans in Congress will 2:12:23.360 --> 2:12:25.080 approve this pretty much unanimously. 2:12:27.800 --> 2:12:28.400 Don't like that. 2:12:29.240 --> 2:12:33.200 No, it's pretty dictatorial on like a space level quote. 2:12:33.240 --> 2:12:36.920 If it's a national emergency, we can do it without Congress. 2:12:37.120 --> 2:12:39.960 It's very Palpatine emergency powers coded. 2:12:40.400 --> 2:12:42.440 And I'm not sure if Lucas was pulling on any 2:12:42.480 --> 2:12:46.640 real world examples for Star Wars the prequels, or if 2:12:46.640 --> 2:12:48.360 he was just pulling all that shit out of his ass. 2:12:48.360 --> 2:12:52.960 Who knows. It seems pretty fanciful. Defense Secretary Pete Hegsath 2:12:53.520 --> 2:12:56.640 told his former co workers on Fox News that it's 2:12:56.840 --> 2:13:02.440 unnoe how long DC will be under this militarized occupation. 2:13:02.960 --> 2:13:05.200 He's got the guts to say, I'm going to federalize 2:13:05.240 --> 2:13:07.080 the police that are that don't work. I'm going to 2:13:07.120 --> 2:13:09.080 bring in the National Guard, I'm going to bring in 2:13:09.360 --> 2:13:13.520 federal marshals. I'm going to bring in the park police. 2:13:14.600 --> 2:13:16.320 What is the cost money? 2:13:16.400 --> 2:13:16.520 Right? 2:13:17.480 --> 2:13:18.160 It cost money? 2:13:18.200 --> 2:13:21.880 And the question is are you there for a year? 2:13:21.960 --> 2:13:22.960 Are you there for six months? 2:13:22.960 --> 2:13:24.720 And when the troops pull out? 2:13:25.400 --> 2:13:25.960 What happened? 2:13:25.960 --> 2:13:27.440 I would call this conditions based. 2:13:27.440 --> 2:13:29.960 I would say it's a situation where we're here to 2:13:29.960 --> 2:13:33.080 support law enforcement. Uh and the more we can free 2:13:33.080 --> 2:13:34.960 them up to do their job, the more effective they 2:13:34.960 --> 2:13:36.760 can be, the more we can work it. I mean, 2:13:36.800 --> 2:13:38.760 this isn't my realm, but the justice system to make 2:13:38.760 --> 2:13:41.360 sure people who are arrested are actually locked up. That's 2:13:41.360 --> 2:13:43.640 why the president's talking about cash list, bear bail, and 2:13:43.680 --> 2:13:46.160 sanctuary cities. If you're illegal here in DC, that's going 2:13:46.200 --> 2:13:48.600 to be a problem. So all of these things that 2:13:48.640 --> 2:13:51.120 apply to law and order are are front and center 2:13:51.160 --> 2:13:53.560 for us. And I don't know, weeks, months, what will 2:13:53.600 --> 2:13:55.480 it take. That's the President's call, but we're going to 2:13:55.480 --> 2:13:58.400 be there for him to execute as swiftly as possible. 2:13:58.080 --> 2:13:59.560 The conditions based. 2:14:00.040 --> 2:14:02.520 It's real, like Warren Rock vibes. 2:14:02.840 --> 2:14:06.960 Yeah, a lot of those these days. Yeah, a lot 2:14:06.960 --> 2:14:10.000 of mission accomplished coming out of the Trump administration too, 2:14:10.560 --> 2:14:13.240 because they've learned that, like there's no consequence in just 2:14:13.280 --> 2:14:15.440 saying like, yeah, we close the border and we won 2:14:15.680 --> 2:14:20.440 the borders won You know, it's done. No one's going 2:14:20.480 --> 2:14:23.040 to get to their base with a counter opinion that matters. 2:14:23.760 --> 2:14:26.120 As bad as things are in DC right now, this 2:14:26.320 --> 2:14:29.600 is just the start of what they want to do. 2:14:29.760 --> 2:14:32.280 Trump seeks to make a quote a quod example of DC, 2:14:32.560 --> 2:14:35.960 but soon wants to go further and attempt this in 2:14:36.080 --> 2:14:39.680 other cities, first naming places like Chicago and Los Angeles, 2:14:40.080 --> 2:14:42.520 and then later New York, Baltimore and Oakland. 2:14:43.200 --> 2:14:45.360 We have other cities that are very bad. New York 2:14:45.440 --> 2:14:49.400 has a problem, and then you have, of course Baltimore 2:14:49.480 --> 2:14:52.000 and Oakland. We don't even mentioned that anymore. There's so 2:14:52.280 --> 2:14:55.240 they're so far gone. We're not gonna let it happen. 2:14:55.240 --> 2:14:58.640 We're not gonna lose our cities over this, and this 2:14:58.720 --> 2:15:03.400 will go further. We're starting very strongly with DC and 2:15:03.400 --> 2:15:06.120 we're going to clean it up real quick, pretty quickly. 2:15:06.160 --> 2:15:07.120 As they say. 2:15:07.760 --> 2:15:10.400 We're not going to lose our cities over this, that 2:15:10.440 --> 2:15:12.640 gets into like the core part of their framing. This, 2:15:12.640 --> 2:15:16.280 this idea that homeless people and criminals cough cough, black 2:15:16.280 --> 2:15:20.000 people are making us lose, like lose our cities. They're 2:15:20.080 --> 2:15:23.919 so far gone and this is necessary for such reasons. 2:15:24.480 --> 2:15:26.480 And like you can look at that pretty clearly. And 2:15:26.560 --> 2:15:31.760 he's naming like Oakland, Baltimore, Chicago, New York like it's 2:15:31.800 --> 2:15:35.040 it's it's not it's not very masked here. Yeah, I 2:15:35.080 --> 2:15:38.680 talked with DC resident bridget Todd this morning. We should 2:15:38.680 --> 2:15:43.600 have an episode with her perspective coming out early next week, 2:15:43.680 --> 2:15:44.640 I think Sunday night. 2:15:45.800 --> 2:15:48.640 I wrote an episode early this year laying out, you know, 2:15:48.880 --> 2:15:51.960 some of my predictions for the year, and this along 2:15:52.000 --> 2:15:54.400 with weird terrorism, we're two of like my big ones. Right, 2:15:54.520 --> 2:15:58.560 that that DC, in particular, he would be attempting to 2:15:58.600 --> 2:16:03.040 fill with soldiers and probably invoke the Insurrection Act. 2:16:03.080 --> 2:16:03.160 No. 2:16:03.240 --> 2:16:05.960 One thing that I have been surprised on is that 2:16:06.320 --> 2:16:09.040 they really do seem kind of hesitant to go full 2:16:09.080 --> 2:16:12.879 in on the Insurrection Act. And obviously I didn't expect 2:16:13.320 --> 2:16:16.880 LA to get troops deployed in it before DC, but 2:16:17.160 --> 2:16:20.360 just based on what they were saying, like after the election, 2:16:20.800 --> 2:16:23.320 kind of as he was preparing to take office, it 2:16:23.360 --> 2:16:25.480 was very clear that they were looking at DC as 2:16:25.480 --> 2:16:27.760 a focus, in part because they had, you know, during 2:16:27.760 --> 2:16:31.560 his last term as well. Right, this is not entirely unprecedented, 2:16:32.120 --> 2:16:36.320 but his desire to specifically not just take away any 2:16:36.320 --> 2:16:38.800 sort of autonomy that the city has and put it 2:16:38.879 --> 2:16:41.680 under direct federal control, but to see troops in the 2:16:41.720 --> 2:16:45.480 streets and federal agents in the streets is not surprising. 2:16:45.600 --> 2:16:48.080 It's something that like, it's not even should be I 2:16:48.160 --> 2:16:50.199 honestly shouldn't even call it a prediction. It's just something 2:16:50.240 --> 2:16:52.480 he's been repeatedly saying he's going to do. So the 2:16:52.520 --> 2:16:55.200 fact that it's happening now, you know, the only thing 2:16:55.240 --> 2:16:56.920 that's surprising to me is that it happened in la 2:16:57.040 --> 2:16:59.800 first right, and that they really do seem to have 2:17:00.400 --> 2:17:02.280 and who knows, you know, this could change by the 2:17:02.320 --> 2:17:04.000 time the episode airs, but they do seem to have 2:17:04.040 --> 2:17:06.440 something of a I don't know if a block is 2:17:06.480 --> 2:17:08.480 the right way to phrase it, but they don't seem 2:17:08.640 --> 2:17:11.320 yet willing to go for the Insurrection Act. That still 2:17:11.320 --> 2:17:13.440 seems to be a bridge too far for some reason. 2:17:13.959 --> 2:17:15.600 I'm not one hundred percent sure why. 2:17:15.920 --> 2:17:19.000 I think I think they're worried about like massive backlash 2:17:19.040 --> 2:17:21.720 to it, like they're really unpopular. 2:17:21.360 --> 2:17:23.880 And right, I mean, they also just don't need to Yeah, 2:17:24.080 --> 2:17:25.160 that's that's a fair point. 2:17:25.200 --> 2:17:28.880 Gar they have this like Section seven forty to call on, 2:17:29.280 --> 2:17:31.040 and if Trump's going to try to get Congress to 2:17:31.080 --> 2:17:33.160 pass a new crime bill that can allow them to 2:17:33.160 --> 2:17:35.240 do this kind of stuff without having to use the 2:17:35.280 --> 2:17:37.400 Insurrection Act. So I think it's more of like a 2:17:37.400 --> 2:17:38.959 matter of necessity, Yeah. 2:17:38.760 --> 2:17:40.600 Just maybe just a risk they don't think they need 2:17:40.640 --> 2:17:40.959 to take. 2:17:41.240 --> 2:17:43.560 Yeah, and like who knows what type of weird shit 2:17:43.600 --> 2:17:45.760 they would try to push into a crime bill, including 2:17:45.800 --> 2:17:48.760 like exceptions for almost any city to have their police 2:17:48.800 --> 2:17:49.880 force be fetualized. 2:17:50.480 --> 2:17:53.280 I think the interesting part of this to me is 2:17:53.400 --> 2:17:56.560 also so that like it feels like a lot of 2:17:56.640 --> 2:17:59.320 what their politics is is like the spectacle of making 2:17:59.360 --> 2:18:03.160 it look like there's power there versus like actually doing 2:18:03.200 --> 2:18:05.400 the thing, because like you can't actually hold DC with 2:18:05.440 --> 2:18:08.840 eight hundred National guardsmen, and like you know, if you 2:18:08.879 --> 2:18:10.440 look at what happened in LA, they kind of like 2:18:10.520 --> 2:18:13.560 declared victory, but then the actual thing they came there 2:18:13.600 --> 2:18:15.840 to do, which was like do this like unpresented mass 2:18:15.879 --> 2:18:19.000 deportation with they did some of it, and then they 2:18:19.040 --> 2:18:22.560 got right out of the city. And so I think, 2:18:22.959 --> 2:18:24.560 I don't know, I think I think there's a kind 2:18:24.560 --> 2:18:26.920 of apocalyptic framing of this where it's like, Okay, well 2:18:26.920 --> 2:18:30.000 it's over, they can just do this. But also it 2:18:30.040 --> 2:18:34.720 has not been going well for them, and like was 2:18:34.720 --> 2:18:36.880 it from DC the video of the guy of the 2:18:36.920 --> 2:18:39.120 guy just like throwing a sandwich at the National Guard 2:18:39.200 --> 2:18:43.160 throwing a subway sandwich. Yes, yeah, right, like actual regular 2:18:43.200 --> 2:18:46.800 people really don't like them. And I think I think 2:18:46.800 --> 2:18:49.080 we're just going to see escalating resistance as more than 2:18:49.120 --> 2:18:52.320 like fucking eighty guys get deployed there. And I don't know, 2:18:52.360 --> 2:18:54.000 it's unclear to me whether they can actually just like 2:18:54.040 --> 2:18:56.480 maintain this or if they're just gonna say, like we 2:18:56.520 --> 2:19:01.039 did it Joe in like thirty days and pull out right. 2:19:01.640 --> 2:19:04.040 That's kind of what some of the rhetoric looks like, 2:19:04.200 --> 2:19:05.879 is that they're going to try to arrest as many 2:19:05.920 --> 2:19:08.440 homeless people as they can, put them in jails, lock 2:19:08.480 --> 2:19:10.480 them up into hospitals, like the executive order that we 2:19:10.520 --> 2:19:14.760 mentioned a few weeks ago, Yeah, and like scare teenagers, 2:19:15.000 --> 2:19:19.000 and that's most of what they want out of this, 2:19:19.160 --> 2:19:20.440 and they're going to make a big show of it, 2:19:20.480 --> 2:19:22.800 and then they'll yeah, declare that the city is now safe, 2:19:23.240 --> 2:19:26.000 and then they'll use the legitimate crime stats showing crime 2:19:26.040 --> 2:19:29.520 falling and be like, look, we proved it. So that 2:19:29.720 --> 2:19:32.160 I think that is probably what it will what it 2:19:32.200 --> 2:19:34.240 will turn out to be. But if they try to 2:19:34.240 --> 2:19:36.480 push forward to a new crime bill like Trump is mentioning, 2:19:36.879 --> 2:19:40.360 or call it a national emergency to help strengthen his 2:19:40.360 --> 2:19:42.920 own powers. I think that's indications that this could have 2:19:42.959 --> 2:19:47.720 some longer lasting results. Let's go on and ad break 2:19:48.160 --> 2:19:52.560 and return to talk terrif I suppose. 2:19:52.560 --> 2:20:08.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that and we're back. 2:20:08.320 --> 2:20:11.440 And obviously the big tariff news this week, as we'll 2:20:11.440 --> 2:20:13.320 get to, well, one of the pieces of big tariff 2:20:13.360 --> 2:20:18.200 news is that Trump has ordered another extension of the 2:20:18.320 --> 2:20:22.640 kind of delay before enacting tariffs against China. You might 2:20:22.760 --> 2:20:26.519 say Trump looked at his tariffs against China and decided 2:20:27.280 --> 2:20:29.080 tariff he no like it. 2:20:29.360 --> 2:20:44.039 Sorry live jazz right, jazz Bob, Sorry lot jazzy jazz bo. 2:20:46.040 --> 2:20:49.520 Okay, that was min true talk tariffs, honestly. 2:20:49.680 --> 2:20:53.199 Okay, So this is kind of a light tariff news week. 2:20:53.360 --> 2:20:55.959 There isn't that much also because if you want to 2:20:55.959 --> 2:20:58.560 hear me talking about tarriffs for like forty five fucking minutes, 2:20:58.600 --> 2:21:00.000 go listen to the episode on when. 2:21:00.280 --> 2:21:02.720 You just did a tariff episode. I just really wanted 2:21:02.720 --> 2:21:04.600 to lead into the tariff thing that way. 2:21:04.760 --> 2:21:05.040 Yeah. 2:21:05.160 --> 2:21:07.920 No, there is actually a very important piece of tariff 2:21:07.959 --> 2:21:13.080 news today. Arizona iced Tea is considering raising prices for 2:21:13.120 --> 2:21:16.480 the first time in over thirty years due to Trump's 2:21:16.520 --> 2:21:18.760 fifty percent aluminum tariffs. 2:21:18.840 --> 2:21:21.240 All right, everyone, get off the call right now. It 2:21:21.360 --> 2:21:26.120 is time to riot, find it building, burn it down. No, 2:21:26.400 --> 2:21:28.320 this is this is not a drill. 2:21:28.600 --> 2:21:32.840 Not acceptable. Arizona iced tea has been the shining beacon 2:21:33.520 --> 2:21:40.320 resisting inflation for decades. The proof proof that inflation is 2:21:40.360 --> 2:21:45.320 fake is on every Arizona iced tea can. And if 2:21:45.360 --> 2:21:48.640 Trump's gonna take it away from us, burn the whole 2:21:48.680 --> 2:21:49.280 system down. 2:21:49.400 --> 2:21:49.920 Yeah, that's it. 2:21:50.280 --> 2:21:57.279 I want CEO handing out cans to throw at your 2:21:58.040 --> 2:22:02.720 at your local government of choice to defend the ninety 2:22:02.760 --> 2:22:06.240 nine cent can. It's one of the most important aspects 2:22:06.280 --> 2:22:07.199 of American culture. 2:22:07.320 --> 2:22:10.360 It's the only thing left of the American dream. Yes, 2:22:10.440 --> 2:22:13.360 it's the one last piece of the American dream. Is 2:22:13.400 --> 2:22:16.200 a ninety nine cent can of Arizona iced tea. That's 2:22:16.240 --> 2:22:17.120 all we have left. 2:22:17.320 --> 2:22:21.080 Fifty percent aluminium tariffs will not take this away from 2:22:21.160 --> 2:22:22.439 US aluminium. 2:22:22.560 --> 2:22:25.959 Yeah no, just just move past it. May forget it. 2:22:25.959 --> 2:22:26.920 It's it's Canadian. 2:22:27.560 --> 2:22:30.240 Where are you going on? Okay? This is actually a 2:22:30.240 --> 2:22:34.200 good way to pivot into the just complete mess at 2:22:34.200 --> 2:22:36.560 the buer of labor statistics. So one of the things 2:22:36.560 --> 2:22:39.080 that Trump has been really harping on is so the 2:22:39.080 --> 2:22:42.000 buer of labor Satistics published a jobs report and it 2:22:42.080 --> 2:22:45.520 was bad. And Trump has been absolutely furious about this 2:22:45.640 --> 2:22:49.400 ever since. And we will actually come back to I 2:22:49.440 --> 2:22:52.119 think we will literally come back to the Arizona Cans 2:22:52.160 --> 2:22:56.879 after this, thank God. But coma however, good lord, the 2:22:56.920 --> 2:22:59.600 people they are trying to put an office right now. 2:23:00.120 --> 2:23:03.920 I so long ago, in the galaxy far far away, 2:23:03.920 --> 2:23:06.199 I made an argument that the Trump regime is built 2:23:06.440 --> 2:23:09.360 on peer stupidity, that there is no plan at all. 2:23:09.440 --> 2:23:11.760 There is only you know, a raviting mall of the 2:23:11.800 --> 2:23:14.400 oblivion of reason that obliterates all attempts to comprehend it 2:23:14.440 --> 2:23:16.640 and leaves only the words, yes, they really are that stupid. 2:23:17.000 --> 2:23:19.600 And this argument was about a guy named Stephan Miron, 2:23:19.959 --> 2:23:23.280 who was Trump's share of the Council of Economic Advisors, 2:23:23.320 --> 2:23:26.760 and his plan to like make other countries pay taxes 2:23:26.840 --> 2:23:30.600 on holding US bonds, a thing that is just unequivocally 2:23:30.600 --> 2:23:34.040 good for the United States. And you know this is 2:23:34.080 --> 2:23:35.600 a plan. You can go back and listen to that 2:23:35.640 --> 2:23:38.320 episode from a few months ago. This is a plan 2:23:38.440 --> 2:23:40.440 so monumentally stupid that the only way I can think 2:23:40.480 --> 2:23:42.320 of describing it was like yelling at the moon to 2:23:42.320 --> 2:23:44.880 stop the tides. Anyways, Trump is trying to get that 2:23:44.920 --> 2:23:48.440 guy appointed to be one of the board members of 2:23:48.280 --> 2:23:52.480 the of the Federal Reserve. And the staggering thing about 2:23:52.520 --> 2:23:55.760 that isn't just that he's doing this. It's not like 2:23:56.720 --> 2:23:59.360 this is not the guy who's in the news right 2:23:59.400 --> 2:24:02.280 now for being unbelievably stupid and getting appointed to an 2:24:02.320 --> 2:24:08.800 extremely important structural agency of the American economy. Because they 2:24:08.800 --> 2:24:12.120 are trying to appoint senior economists at the Heritage Foundation 2:24:12.720 --> 2:24:15.240 E J and Tony as the head of the Bureau 2:24:15.280 --> 2:24:17.200 of Labor Statistics after they fired the last head for 2:24:17.240 --> 2:24:21.320 like releasing the job support Right, this guy, Okay, I 2:24:21.760 --> 2:24:24.480 make fun of economists for being dumb as shit all 2:24:24.520 --> 2:24:28.560 the time. He might legitimately be the stupidest economist I 2:24:28.560 --> 2:24:31.680 have ever seen. Just on blue Sky, like the day 2:24:31.720 --> 2:24:35.600 this was announced, right, I saw someone dunking on him 2:24:35.879 --> 2:24:38.920 for drawing a chart where he doesn't seem to understand 2:24:38.920 --> 2:24:41.600 that people retire and that when they retire they're not 2:24:41.640 --> 2:24:44.080 in the labor force anymore. Where he was doing this 2:24:44.160 --> 2:24:46.120 trend line that was based on the assumption that like 2:24:46.320 --> 2:24:52.440 people wouldn't retire. There are so many just incredibly basic 2:24:52.480 --> 2:24:55.320 economics since he doesn't understand. There's a post that I saw. 2:24:55.360 --> 2:24:56.680 This is the first one. That was the second one 2:24:56.680 --> 2:24:58.280 that I saw, the first one that I saw, And 2:24:58.320 --> 2:24:59.800 it's really funny because this is like in the New 2:24:59.879 --> 2:25:01.680 York Times now, but I just like saw this on 2:25:01.760 --> 2:25:05.920 Blue Sky. Was this post by this economist's name Joey Paulitano, 2:25:06.000 --> 2:25:09.240 who said, quote an economist's so dumb. I had to 2:25:09.280 --> 2:25:11.600 explain to him how the price index works. Will now 2:25:11.680 --> 2:25:13.080 lead the BLS. 2:25:12.800 --> 2:25:14.119 Kill me good. 2:25:14.560 --> 2:25:15.760 So he was doing his thing where he was like 2:25:15.800 --> 2:25:18.440 posting the price indexs and being like, prices aren't going up. 2:25:18.440 --> 2:25:20.640 But the thing about the import price index is that 2:25:20.720 --> 2:25:23.920 it calculates price is pre tariffs. Okay, so of course 2:25:23.959 --> 2:25:28.119 they wouldn't go up because they're not calculating the tariffs. 2:25:28.879 --> 2:25:30.840 And he was posting this as like, no, see, the 2:25:31.600 --> 2:25:35.560 terrorists don't do inflation. H he is he's being chosen 2:25:35.600 --> 2:25:37.720 for this position because he is just like a rigid 2:25:37.760 --> 2:25:41.879 ideologue of the Trump administration, right, but he's also he's 2:25:41.920 --> 2:25:45.240 so fucking stupid that things are happening. I have never 2:25:45.360 --> 2:25:48.520 seen with right wing economisy before where other right wing 2:25:48.560 --> 2:25:51.160 economists are going like, this guy can't be allowed to 2:25:51.200 --> 2:25:53.080 take office. He's going to fuck everything up because he's 2:25:53.120 --> 2:25:57.400 too dumb. Like I am watching economists at the Manhattan Institute, 2:25:57.480 --> 2:26:00.560 which is an organization that was literally found in by 2:26:00.640 --> 2:26:04.400 Reagan's director of the CIA, William Casey, right like that. 2:26:04.560 --> 2:26:07.680 The Mahattan Institute is a right wing institute, right like again, 2:26:08.000 --> 2:26:10.720 this is this is this is an organization founded by 2:26:11.320 --> 2:26:16.440 Ronald fucking Reagan's CIA director. And I am watching those 2:26:16.560 --> 2:26:19.039 people go, this guy is too stupid to be put 2:26:19.080 --> 2:26:23.280 in office. Please don't put him there. This is unprecedented. 2:26:23.320 --> 2:26:26.520 I've never seen right wing economists break rank on the 2:26:26.600 --> 2:26:28.720 sort of like affirmative action program they all have for 2:26:28.840 --> 2:26:36.599 like really really underachieving right wing shithead economists. It's astonishing 2:26:36.640 --> 2:26:38.320 and so and the reason he's being brought in, and 2:26:38.320 --> 2:26:39.920 this is also the reason he was like the chief 2:26:39.920 --> 2:26:42.520 economist of the Herrer's Foundation, is that he has been 2:26:42.640 --> 2:26:46.000 calling for getting rid of the Bureau of Labor Statistics 2:26:46.360 --> 2:26:48.720 and also thinks that again like like Trump does it, 2:26:48.720 --> 2:26:50.920 they've been like cooking the books to make democrats look 2:26:50.959 --> 2:26:54.560 good and Republicans look bad. And so if he gets 2:26:54.560 --> 2:26:56.400 appointed and this is also like goes to the Senate, 2:26:56.480 --> 2:27:01.000 but him being appointed here effectively signals the end of 2:27:01.040 --> 2:27:06.120 independent economic data from the federal governments, hooray, which is 2:27:07.080 --> 2:27:11.160 a just catastrophic, Like every single part of the governments, 2:27:11.200 --> 2:27:15.760 every policy organization, every like every every single element, every corporation, 2:27:15.879 --> 2:27:19.200 every element of the entire US economic system relies on 2:27:19.240 --> 2:27:23.200 this data being nonpartisan and accurate. And it's obviously like, yeah, 2:27:23.240 --> 2:27:26.520 all like all data is political, but like it being 2:27:26.600 --> 2:27:30.320 like reasonably accurate is like the defining thing about the 2:27:30.400 --> 2:27:33.160 US economy is that this data is there and functions 2:27:33.160 --> 2:27:34.800 and this is what everyone based their decisions off of. 2:27:36.000 --> 2:27:38.080 And he very much looks like he wants to just 2:27:38.200 --> 2:27:41.000 end that. And I want to close by noting that're 2:27:41.000 --> 2:27:42.520 like one of you know, at the very end of 2:27:42.560 --> 2:27:44.600 the Soviet Union, right, one of the things that was 2:27:45.600 --> 2:27:48.160 taken as like the giant signal that things were going 2:27:48.200 --> 2:27:51.360 to shit there was that like their leadership by like 2:27:51.400 --> 2:27:55.359 the like the mid late eighties was deploying satellites specifically 2:27:55.440 --> 2:27:57.720 so they could use satellite imagery to check the output 2:27:57.840 --> 2:28:01.360 of their own factories because there their control of the 2:28:01.400 --> 2:28:05.480 economic statistics had become so like just annihilated right by 2:28:05.560 --> 2:28:08.840 just like mass falsification, their loss of control over the 2:28:08.879 --> 2:28:10.720 standards that their measuring regime was seen as like, this 2:28:10.760 --> 2:28:13.120 is the regime falling apart. And we are like eight 2:28:13.120 --> 2:28:15.720 months out from Google doing that shit, right, Like, we 2:28:15.800 --> 2:28:18.800 are not very far out from companies doing a thing 2:28:18.879 --> 2:28:21.440 you have to do with like remote provinces in China 2:28:21.480 --> 2:28:24.720 where the fault were, Like there's data falsification of Like okay, 2:28:24.760 --> 2:28:28.520 we're like using satellite data to like measure freight loads 2:28:28.680 --> 2:28:32.320 and like measure electrical consumption and like figuring out what 2:28:32.360 --> 2:28:34.280 factories are open at night to figure out how much 2:28:34.440 --> 2:28:39.320 that's You know that that is something that is very 2:28:39.400 --> 2:28:42.000 much in our future. I'm only kind of joking about 2:28:42.000 --> 2:28:44.120 the satellite shit. I think we probably will live to 2:28:44.160 --> 2:28:46.920 see that, assuming this thing goes through, assuming they remember 2:28:46.920 --> 2:28:50.520 how to launch satellites. Well it won't. It won't be them, 2:28:50.560 --> 2:28:53.880 It'll be it'll be like corporations doing this. Oh sure, sure, yeah, 2:28:54.000 --> 2:28:55.680 like you using the row satellite grads and. 2:28:55.720 --> 2:28:57.160 I mean I can, I can, I can see the 2:28:57.280 --> 2:29:00.800 uh yeah, the Blue Origin satellites launching. To keep track 2:29:00.840 --> 2:29:04.000 on to keep track of Amazon's efficiency. 2:29:04.360 --> 2:29:09.119 Yea yeah, oh good lord. Yeah. I want to close 2:29:09.120 --> 2:29:11.320 on like one final brief note, which I've said this before, 2:29:11.400 --> 2:29:13.480 but I want to say it again. This is the 2:29:13.560 --> 2:29:15.400 exact thing that but like one is. One of the 2:29:15.440 --> 2:29:17.760 big things that brought down the military keatorship in Brazil 2:29:18.320 --> 2:29:20.760 was that they were lying about inflation data. You know, 2:29:20.800 --> 2:29:24.119 the thing about inflation is that you can just see 2:29:24.120 --> 2:29:26.160 the price of the Arizona can go up. 2:29:26.360 --> 2:29:28.320 Just like you can see Huey Dewey and who we 2:29:28.440 --> 2:29:33.440 expand and our favorite inflation fetish pornography. They don't give 2:29:33.520 --> 2:29:38.440 me Hazard pay for this. They really should Hazard. I 2:29:38.560 --> 2:29:40.000 feel like this is a bonus. 2:29:41.840 --> 2:29:44.040 Oh I guess this is also mentioned. Part of the 2:29:44.040 --> 2:29:46.600 reason they're trying to put this like absolute clown on 2:29:46.760 --> 2:29:48.520 the board of the Federal Reserve is that they want 2:29:48.600 --> 2:29:51.040 to replace the chairman of the Federal Reserve so that 2:29:51.160 --> 2:29:55.480 Trump can just directly set interest rates. That's a looming 2:29:55.560 --> 2:29:57.280 crisis that is coming. 2:29:57.400 --> 2:29:59.600 Trump is threatening to sue the head of the Federal 2:29:59.640 --> 2:30:03.040 Reserve right now. Oh yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, he 2:30:03.160 --> 2:30:03.680 is yep. 2:30:03.600 --> 2:30:07.439 He sharees, which is a fast It's gonna be amazing precedent. 2:30:07.680 --> 2:30:08.640 I am excited. 2:30:08.879 --> 2:30:11.880 Oh, it's it's astonishing. I don't know. It's been very 2:30:11.959 --> 2:30:16.640 funny because a lot of the kind of internal publications 2:30:17.160 --> 2:30:20.240 from like the banks about this have been like, ah, 2:30:20.360 --> 2:30:22.119 if you're a Boostero and Powell, it's not that big 2:30:22.160 --> 2:30:25.119 of a deal. Like the banks can like autonomously said 2:30:25.160 --> 2:30:27.600 interest race technically without the chairman of the Federal Reserve. 2:30:27.840 --> 2:30:31.280 And it's like, Okay, I don't think you understand how 2:30:31.360 --> 2:30:34.680 bad this is going to get. So we're still we're 2:30:34.680 --> 2:30:36.880 still in cope. I don't know what we'll report to 2:30:36.920 --> 2:30:39.560 you back on the show when all of that enormous 2:30:39.600 --> 2:30:40.600 clusterfug blows up. 2:30:42.080 --> 2:30:45.120 Yay, before we go and break again, I'd like to 2:30:45.200 --> 2:30:47.680 have an update for one of the stories we talked 2:30:47.680 --> 2:30:51.120 about last week, the Texas Democrats fleeing to Illinois and 2:30:51.160 --> 2:30:54.480 then later to California to brick orm to stop or 2:30:54.520 --> 2:30:59.720 delay a redistricting vote in Texas. And now Texas Democrats 2:30:59.760 --> 2:31:03.640 are to come back home, possibly as soon as this weekend. Yes, 2:31:03.879 --> 2:31:07.760 after Governor Greg Abbott ended the special session to redraw 2:31:07.840 --> 2:31:11.160 the congressional map, which would add five new Republican House 2:31:11.240 --> 2:31:15.840 seats with some Democrats expected to return very soon. Nothing 2:31:16.120 --> 2:31:19.480 stops Abbot from just calling another special session once the 2:31:19.520 --> 2:31:22.800 Democrats return. In fact, he has said that that's exactly 2:31:22.879 --> 2:31:23.400 what he's gonna do. 2:31:23.480 --> 2:31:26.840 He's definitely going to do that, Yes, and add in. 2:31:27.000 --> 2:31:30.920 New legislation to convince some of them to stay. So 2:31:31.120 --> 2:31:33.080 we will see that they can just leave the state 2:31:33.160 --> 2:31:36.880 again if they want to. H unclear, if unclear if 2:31:36.920 --> 2:31:40.599 they will. I mean, other states are threatening retaliatory redistricting, 2:31:41.080 --> 2:31:45.200 specifically the governors of New York and California. This is 2:31:45.280 --> 2:31:48.640 going to be a really annoying mess with different with 2:31:48.760 --> 2:31:52.440 different states all redrawing their maps just to create some 2:31:52.600 --> 2:31:55.760 kind of congressional balance. Of Florida also threatening to do 2:31:55.840 --> 2:31:58.000 the same. So we will we will see how this 2:31:58.080 --> 2:32:01.400 develops over time. But yeah, Texas Dems may be home 2:32:01.600 --> 2:32:02.840 sooner than expected. 2:32:03.360 --> 2:32:05.080 It's so cool that on the one hand you have 2:32:05.200 --> 2:32:08.480 the Republicans creating the image of tyranny and then expanding 2:32:08.480 --> 2:32:10.280 their actual power, and then you have the Democrats doing 2:32:10.320 --> 2:32:12.680 the image of resistance and then giving in. 2:32:13.440 --> 2:32:16.280 I mean, they're not really giving in yet. Yeah, we'll see, 2:32:16.360 --> 2:32:18.760 we'll see, but they are going home because this session 2:32:19.040 --> 2:32:22.480 is ended. Yeah, What still remains to be seen is 2:32:22.520 --> 2:32:25.160 if they will flee the state a second time, like 2:32:25.360 --> 2:32:26.080 a week later. 2:32:26.320 --> 2:32:29.440 Yeah, which who knows. I have little faith in that, 2:32:29.640 --> 2:32:30.320 but we'll see. 2:32:30.600 --> 2:32:33.240 Yeah, I'm not sure at this point. Yeah, but I 2:32:33.280 --> 2:32:36.400 thought we should include that small update there, and now 2:32:36.600 --> 2:32:50.160 we should include a secondary ad break. Okay, we are back. 2:32:52.240 --> 2:32:56.480 In other news. Last week, on Friday, a mass shooting 2:32:56.720 --> 2:33:02.280 was targeted against the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. The 2:33:02.440 --> 2:33:05.880 thirty year old shooter broke into his father's safe to retree. 2:33:06.040 --> 2:33:09.879 Five firearms were then used in the attack. The shooting 2:33:09.920 --> 2:33:13.320 started at a CBS across from the CDC main entrance. 2:33:13.800 --> 2:33:17.520 Shooter then fired upon six buildings on the CDC campus, 2:33:17.600 --> 2:33:19.480 with the total of five hundred rounds being fired during 2:33:19.520 --> 2:33:24.480 the incident, with two hundred shots hitting CDC buildings. One 2:33:24.640 --> 2:33:27.920 Decab County Police officer was killed. The shooter later shot 2:33:28.000 --> 2:33:33.520 and killed himself. Police were contacted several weeks before the 2:33:33.600 --> 2:33:39.160 shooting by unknown individuals due to quote recently verbalized thoughts 2:33:39.280 --> 2:33:43.960 of suicide. According to the GBI director Chris Hosey, this 2:33:44.200 --> 2:33:48.400 was about the soon to become shooter. Police found written 2:33:48.480 --> 2:33:54.480 documents from the shooter expressing distrust in the COVID nineteen vaccine. 2:33:55.200 --> 2:33:58.520 Georgia Bureau of Investigation Director Josey said the shooter quote 2:33:58.840 --> 2:34:02.160 wanted to make the PUBLICBLIC aware of his discontent with 2:34:02.480 --> 2:34:07.119 and distrust of the vaccine unquote, with sources who knew 2:34:07.200 --> 2:34:10.879 him telling ABC News he blamed the vaccine for making 2:34:11.000 --> 2:34:14.480 him sick and depressed. The CDC director sent a letter 2:34:14.600 --> 2:34:17.480 to its ten thousand employees earlier this week saying, quote 2:34:17.640 --> 2:34:21.320 the dangers of misinformation and its promulgation has now led 2:34:21.560 --> 2:34:26.760 to deadly consequences unquote. The Monday after the shooting, RFK 2:34:26.959 --> 2:34:32.840 Junior oh No, who recently defunded mRNA Vaccines, visited the 2:34:32.959 --> 2:34:35.680 CDC campus to express condolences for the family of the 2:34:35.760 --> 2:34:38.920 officer killed, as well as to quote offers support to 2:34:38.959 --> 2:34:41.400 all of the CDC employees who are a part of 2:34:41.520 --> 2:34:45.080 a shining star health agency around the world to quote 2:34:45.120 --> 2:34:48.480 from an interview he gave with SCRIPTS News. When Kennedy 2:34:48.640 --> 2:34:51.160 was asked what would be done to stop the spread 2:34:51.200 --> 2:34:54.680 of vaccine misinformation to prevent future incidents like this shooting, 2:34:55.120 --> 2:34:58.879 Kennedy said, quote people can ask questions without being penalized 2:34:59.280 --> 2:35:02.400 and quote we don't know enough about what the motive 2:35:02.680 --> 2:35:07.680 was of this individual unquote hate that. That's all pretty 2:35:07.920 --> 2:35:12.400 pretty disgusting seeing narratives that RFK Junior has promoted for 2:35:12.520 --> 2:35:15.600 his own profit for years yep being used to justify 2:35:15.640 --> 2:35:18.000 as shooting targeting the CDC headquarters. 2:35:18.480 --> 2:35:22.800 Yeah, and it's you know, it's kind of unclear exactly 2:35:23.000 --> 2:35:26.560 what because it seems like he was shooting at the buildings. 2:35:27.200 --> 2:35:29.600 He fired at least two hundred rounds, roughly two hundred 2:35:29.640 --> 2:35:32.279 rounds into the buildings, about five hundred rounds fighter total. 2:35:32.480 --> 2:35:34.680 But I've seen people say that means he was like 2:35:35.040 --> 2:35:37.360 shot five hundred He did not a lot of those 2:35:37.440 --> 2:35:39.560 rounds are the police. No, that's the toast of them 2:35:39.680 --> 2:35:41.680 or the police. You know, two or three hundred rounds 2:35:42.120 --> 2:35:44.760 would not at all be odd for how many police 2:35:44.800 --> 2:35:46.480 would fire in response to a guy like this who 2:35:46.600 --> 2:35:49.520 is just bag dumping, you know, into a building. It's 2:35:49.600 --> 2:35:52.800 unclear to me did he see people through the windows 2:35:52.879 --> 2:35:54.880 and was he trying to hit them or was he 2:35:55.080 --> 2:35:57.960 just shooting at the buildings to make a statement. The 2:35:58.040 --> 2:36:00.600 fact that he did shoot and kill a police PAE officer, 2:36:00.760 --> 2:36:04.480 presumably with intent, makes it more likely that maybe he 2:36:04.879 --> 2:36:07.760 was trying to hit people inside the building. I don't 2:36:07.760 --> 2:36:09.480 know how much it's worth splitting hairs here, but I 2:36:09.520 --> 2:36:11.960 am like it is kind of unclear to me. Was 2:36:12.000 --> 2:36:14.160 his goal more to make a statement or was he 2:36:14.320 --> 2:36:17.480 hoping to like rack up a body count of CDC 2:36:17.680 --> 2:36:20.119 employees and this was just as close as he could get. 2:36:20.440 --> 2:36:22.560 I don't think we really know. Maybe we probably never will. 2:36:23.440 --> 2:36:26.480 It seems he had trouble accessing or getting close to 2:36:27.040 --> 2:36:30.120 some buildings on the CDC campus. This was mostly done 2:36:30.280 --> 2:36:33.359 from the CVS, which he at a certain point, according 2:36:33.400 --> 2:36:35.960 to police reports, he could not get out of. He 2:36:36.160 --> 2:36:40.040 was locked inside the CVS what and tried to exit 2:36:40.160 --> 2:36:44.400 by shooting like the windows and doors, and was unable 2:36:44.440 --> 2:36:46.080 to and then killed himself inside. 2:36:46.520 --> 2:36:47.560 Huh jeez. 2:36:48.040 --> 2:36:50.400 So it is a kind of odd situation. We don't 2:36:50.400 --> 2:36:52.880 have a clear idea yet because this just happened a 2:36:52.879 --> 2:36:55.080 few days ago. We don't have a clear idea yet 2:36:55.120 --> 2:36:58.800 of like the exact on the ground situation, just these 2:36:58.879 --> 2:37:03.280 kind of general general facts about which buildings were hit 2:37:03.360 --> 2:37:05.920 and how many shots were fired. And then the anti 2:37:06.120 --> 2:37:10.880 VAXX opinions and writing found allegedly in his home. 2:37:11.080 --> 2:37:14.440 Yeah, so We'll say more will come out about this 2:37:14.879 --> 2:37:17.920 in time, but I mean the basics are pretty clear, 2:37:18.080 --> 2:37:21.360 which is that this is the natural extension of decades 2:37:21.440 --> 2:37:25.000 of anti vaccine rhetoric and specifically the last several years 2:37:25.040 --> 2:37:28.199 of OURFK relentlessly attacking the CDC. 2:37:29.120 --> 2:37:31.160 Now the piece of news this week that I should mention, 2:37:31.320 --> 2:37:32.880 though frankly, we don't have much to stay on this 2:37:33.000 --> 2:37:35.760 because it's unclear this will actually turn into anything real 2:37:35.920 --> 2:37:39.560 or not. But later this fall, the Supreme Court will 2:37:39.800 --> 2:37:42.920 consider whether to take a case that could overturn the 2:37:43.040 --> 2:37:47.120 national ruling on gay marriage. This specific case that they 2:37:47.160 --> 2:37:49.959 would be considering has not done very well in all 2:37:50.200 --> 2:37:52.720 lower federal courts, which is why it's been appealed to 2:37:52.879 --> 2:37:56.760 this level. The legal justifications used for the First Amendment 2:37:57.080 --> 2:38:00.520 have not made much progress in federal appeals courts so far. 2:38:01.200 --> 2:38:04.440 If the case does get chosen, it would be primarily 2:38:04.560 --> 2:38:08.960 for like ideological reasons based on specific new Supreme Court justices. 2:38:09.280 --> 2:38:13.680 But it is still unclear if this will get accepted, 2:38:13.760 --> 2:38:17.720 and I'm thinking not super likely. I don't think this 2:38:17.840 --> 2:38:20.920 is something that we need to have tons of panic 2:38:20.920 --> 2:38:21.720 about at the moment. 2:38:22.879 --> 2:38:25.480 So something that I mean, I don't know if panic's 2:38:25.520 --> 2:38:28.040 the right word, but did actually happen and is very bad? 2:38:28.879 --> 2:38:29.080 Is that? 2:38:29.640 --> 2:38:32.240 So Trump issued in the Executive Order a while back 2:38:32.320 --> 2:38:34.760 about like getting rid of collective bargaining rights for a 2:38:34.800 --> 2:38:37.320 bunch of different kinds of government employees, like nominally under 2:38:37.360 --> 2:38:40.760 the auspices of national security. There'd been a whole bunch 2:38:40.800 --> 2:38:43.040 of court cases kind of winding the way through the courts, 2:38:43.720 --> 2:38:47.640 but last week, the VA became the first government agency 2:38:47.680 --> 2:38:49.640 to actually do it. They just straight up got rid 2:38:49.640 --> 2:38:52.200 of the union contracts for three hundred and seventy seven 2:38:52.280 --> 2:38:55.320 thousand workers. Like three hundred and seventy seven thousand workers 2:38:55.400 --> 2:38:57.600 is an astonishing number of workers to just straight up 2:38:57.640 --> 2:39:00.200 the union doesn't exist the next day, Yeah right, they 2:39:00.240 --> 2:39:04.280 just their contract sharp being recognized. This in and of 2:39:04.360 --> 2:39:08.359 itself is really stunning, and also the lack of response 2:39:08.520 --> 2:39:11.520 by the union movement, especially considering the number of people involved. 2:39:11.600 --> 2:39:15.640 It's just been like strongly worded statements and encouragements for 2:39:15.720 --> 2:39:18.520 the Democrats to pass a bill through Congress to recognize 2:39:18.520 --> 2:39:22.960 collective bargaining rights, which speaks really really ill of the 2:39:23.040 --> 2:39:26.160 broader labor movement that like, again, they just took away 2:39:26.240 --> 2:39:30.359 the unions of almost four hundred thousand people, and Organized 2:39:30.400 --> 2:39:33.280 Labor's collective response was just to kind of shrug. So 2:39:33.400 --> 2:39:37.039 that's really fucking bleak. It's probably going to be spreading 2:39:37.160 --> 2:39:42.600 to more agencies as this plays out. Yeah, it's really 2:39:42.879 --> 2:39:44.680 I don't know. And even the language unions of using 2:39:44.680 --> 2:39:46.360 it talk about it. They're like, oh, this is union 2:39:46.400 --> 2:39:48.960 busting for speaking out against anti worker policies, and it's like, no, 2:39:49.040 --> 2:39:51.000 it's union busting because they literally got rid of the 2:39:51.120 --> 2:39:54.160 unions of three hundred and seventy seven thousand people. What 2:39:54.480 --> 2:39:57.360 are we doing here? I don't know. I'm gonna have 2:39:57.840 --> 2:40:01.600 more on this as I guess more word from union sources. 2:40:01.680 --> 2:40:05.880 There's a staggering lack of information about this and people 2:40:06.040 --> 2:40:08.680 are being slow to respond, but I want to mention 2:40:08.800 --> 2:40:13.400 it here because it's devastating and hideous and yeah, it's 2:40:13.800 --> 2:40:14.720 real fucking bad. 2:40:15.480 --> 2:40:18.959 Before we close this episode, James Stout has a special 2:40:19.000 --> 2:40:23.240 report on immigration and information about a fundraiser. 2:40:23.600 --> 2:40:27.440 James, all right, So immigration report. With the change of 2:40:27.520 --> 2:40:30.600 the month, children across the country are returning to schools. 2:40:31.120 --> 2:40:34.720 This means that ICE agents are also returning to enforcement 2:40:34.800 --> 2:40:37.680 at schools, not just ICE agents as we know, other 2:40:37.760 --> 2:40:42.440 federal agents' board patrol ATFDA, etc. Are all taking part 2:40:42.480 --> 2:40:45.600 in immigration enforcement now they're no longer restrained by the 2:40:45.640 --> 2:40:50.080 sensitive Places doctrine, which previously stopped them from doing enforcement 2:40:50.160 --> 2:40:53.120 at schools and churches and other places where it's generally 2:40:53.200 --> 2:40:56.600 considered not worth it because doing so obviously provides a 2:40:56.640 --> 2:40:59.240 massive disincentive for family to take their children to school. 2:40:59.320 --> 2:41:04.080 In this instance, in Chula Vista, second largest city in 2:41:04.120 --> 2:41:07.080 the County of San Diego, ice detained a parent a 2:41:07.200 --> 2:41:10.320 block away from a school, leaving two young children in 2:41:10.400 --> 2:41:13.199 the car. Like most schools in the area, Tula Vista 2:41:13.200 --> 2:41:16.440 Elementary School District will not allow ice on campus without 2:41:16.480 --> 2:41:19.760 a warrant unless there's an active emergency. Just to explain 2:41:19.800 --> 2:41:21.880 that active emergency thing a bit I guess, for instance, 2:41:21.920 --> 2:41:24.760 in Uvalde, because all the local cops were cowards and 2:41:24.840 --> 2:41:28.040 stood outside, it was actually a border patrol team or 2:41:28.080 --> 2:41:31.600 attacked specifically who killed the shooter there, So that would 2:41:31.600 --> 2:41:33.760 be an example of when immigration agents might enter a 2:41:33.800 --> 2:41:36.800 campus during an active emergency. In Los Angeles, a fifteen 2:41:36.879 --> 2:41:40.560 year old boy with disabilities was pulled from a car, handcuffed, 2:41:40.600 --> 2:41:44.800 and detained by federal agents at gunpoint. He was accompanying 2:41:44.840 --> 2:41:47.120 a relative who was reaistering at the school, and he 2:41:47.200 --> 2:41:49.840 was in the car with his grandmother. The agents, who 2:41:49.879 --> 2:41:52.480 appeared to be bored patrol from videos i've seen, release 2:41:52.560 --> 2:41:56.800 the boy after intervention by school staff and left live 2:41:56.879 --> 2:42:00.600 ammunition on the sidewalk. For some reason, these look like 2:42:00.680 --> 2:42:03.280 five five six rounds from the pictures I've seen, I'm 2:42:03.320 --> 2:42:07.480 guessing it's just terrible weapons handling procedures here. It appears 2:42:07.520 --> 2:42:09.640 that this boy was not the person they were looking for, 2:42:09.760 --> 2:42:14.000 but nonetheless they've obviously horrifically traumatized this young man for 2:42:14.520 --> 2:42:18.960 no good reason. In response, LA Unified School District is 2:42:19.080 --> 2:42:25.240 ramping up safety patrols. These include volunteers, teachers, and school cops. Apparently, obviously, 2:42:25.320 --> 2:42:29.800 school cops cannot directly prevent immigration enforcement officers from doing 2:42:29.840 --> 2:42:33.960 immigration enforcement, but they can notify people of their presence, 2:42:34.400 --> 2:42:37.160 and they're trying to have safe zones around schools so 2:42:37.240 --> 2:42:39.120 that people can either safety walk to school or safety 2:42:39.160 --> 2:42:42.760 drop their kids off. They're also changing their bus programs. 2:42:43.240 --> 2:42:46.840 Buses are part of school district's property right, so just 2:42:47.120 --> 2:42:49.400 as ice could not enter a school without a warrant, 2:42:49.440 --> 2:42:51.160 nor could they enter that bus without a warrant, and 2:42:51.200 --> 2:42:54.240 it would be within the training of the bus driver 2:42:54.480 --> 2:42:57.199 to deny them access if they did not have a warrant. 2:42:58.240 --> 2:43:00.680 So the bus would potentially be a much safer way 2:43:00.800 --> 2:43:02.400 for people to get to school that are having their 2:43:02.480 --> 2:43:05.280 parents drive them. And so what la USD is doing 2:43:05.400 --> 2:43:08.880 is expanding their bus programs in LA. I've seen a 2:43:08.879 --> 2:43:11.600 lot of information on this in the resource guide that 2:43:11.680 --> 2:43:14.240 was published by the LA Office of Immigration Affairs. 2:43:14.560 --> 2:43:16.960 So now is a good time to remind everyone that 2:43:17.160 --> 2:43:22.080 San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria defunded the San Diego. 2:43:21.760 --> 2:43:25.240 Office of Immigrant Affairs because he refuses to stop giving 2:43:25.280 --> 2:43:28.360 the Cobs a fire hose of our money. 2:43:28.800 --> 2:43:32.440 This has left migrants in one of America's largest border 2:43:32.520 --> 2:43:34.560 cities even more vulnerable. 2:43:35.000 --> 2:43:38.320 We're also doing a fundraiser this week. We're going to 2:43:38.360 --> 2:43:41.400 fund raised for Bouquet again. I'm going to go see 2:43:41.440 --> 2:43:46.560 her later this week. I know she has hearings coming up. Bouquette, 2:43:46.600 --> 2:43:49.680 for those who do not remember, is an Alevy Kurdish woman. 2:43:50.120 --> 2:43:53.440 Because of her ethnicity and religion, she wasn't safe in 2:43:53.560 --> 2:43:56.200 Turkey and she came to the USA to ask for refuge. 2:43:56.520 --> 2:43:59.040 She's been in San Diego for six months right now, 2:43:59.240 --> 2:44:01.440 and she is trying trying to raise money for her 2:44:01.520 --> 2:44:04.520 asylum case. And she can't work because she doesn't have 2:44:04.560 --> 2:44:07.520 a work permit, and she has cancer, which is obviously 2:44:07.640 --> 2:44:10.879 something which is very difficult for her to manage alongside 2:44:11.160 --> 2:44:16.320 the massive stress of immigration enforcement. Right now, she needs 2:44:16.360 --> 2:44:19.520 to raise seven thousand dollars to pay her lawyer. I'm 2:44:19.560 --> 2:44:21.720 looking at the GoFundMe as I record this and it 2:44:21.840 --> 2:44:25.800 is at one thousand, nine hundred and forty one dollars. 2:44:26.600 --> 2:44:28.160 If you would like to help, you can go to 2:44:28.400 --> 2:44:35.840 www dot GoFundMe dot com, slash f slash urgent, hyphen help, 2:44:36.600 --> 2:44:43.120 hyphen four, hyphen bouquette, b uk e t s hyphen asylum, 2:44:43.480 --> 2:44:46.080 hyphen case, or you can just go down as a 2:44:46.120 --> 2:44:49.039 show notes and click the link. We really appreciate all 2:44:49.080 --> 2:44:50.320 the support you guys have given. 2:44:51.440 --> 2:44:52.920 Thank you to James for that. 2:44:53.760 --> 2:44:56.920 Well, I guess that's our week. We reported the news. 2:44:57.560 --> 2:44:58.480 We reported the news. 2:45:04.879 --> 2:45:08.000 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2:45:08.120 --> 2:45:10.000 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 2:45:10.760 --> 2:45:11.360 It could happen. 2:45:11.400 --> 2:45:13.760 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 2:45:13.840 --> 2:45:17.760 podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, 2:45:18.240 --> 2:45:21.120 or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 2:45:21.440 --> 2:45:24.240 or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find 2:45:24.320 --> 2:45:27.320 sources for it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. 2:45:27.680 --> 2:45:28.440 Thanks for listening.