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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to It could happen here, and it could.

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Speaker 3: My name is Antre Siege. I'm also Antisom on YouTube

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Speaker 3: and I'm here once again.

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Speaker 4: With James James Stout. People have said I'd never say

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Speaker 4: my last name and they can't work out who I am,

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Speaker 4: so I guess I'll do that more.

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Speaker 5: Welcome James Stout, Thank you so.

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Speaker 3: And I mean this is an unfortunately common part enough

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Speaker 3: thought for me, but I've been thinking about just how

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Speaker 3: totalizing this system feels. And it's like everywhere you're ten,

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Speaker 3: you know, walking down the street, look at the city,

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Speaker 3: a pollution, Every inch of land there's been claimed by

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Speaker 3: the system, every bit of you know, the way you

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Speaker 3: live and operate just feels like it's been manipulated and

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Speaker 3: controlled in some way. And so that's really what I

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Speaker 3: want to highlight in today's episode, the infrastructure of this

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Speaker 3: system and how it's used to control, you know, both

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Speaker 3: in terms of the physical infrastructure and the digital infrastructure

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Speaker 3: of our lives. So I suppose to start off, i'd ask,

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Speaker 3: when was the last time that you noticed infrastructure shaping

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Speaker 3: your choices?

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Speaker 4: That's interesting, I mean a lot in the certain ways,

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Speaker 4: right Like, like the infrastructure of labor shaped a lot

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Speaker 4: of my choices, Like I have to work a lot

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Speaker 4: to make ends meet, right like, which means I can't

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Speaker 4: do sometimes things I want to do, Like there are

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Speaker 4: mutual aid efforts I'd like to participate in more that

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Speaker 4: I'm not able to because I have this obligation to

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Speaker 4: capital m I guess that's one of them.

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Speaker 6: Or just like the.

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Speaker 4: Physical infrastructure limiting the people I get to see, right like,

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Speaker 4: there are places I love to go out there with

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Speaker 4: some really nice vegan places in Tijuana that I don't

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Speaker 4: go to as much as i'd like because someone has

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Speaker 4: built a giant wall and then another giant wall next

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Speaker 4: to it, and then stationed a bunch of people with

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Speaker 4: guns to check if I have the right piece of

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Speaker 4: paper to go back and forth to somewhere that otherwise

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Speaker 4: I could rude my bike to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, borders are very unfortunate and big one. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: really frustrating, and I think that's one of the most

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Speaker 3: obviously detrimental aspects of physical infrastructure that yeah, set of

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Speaker 3: manipulates our lives today. I think on the digital level,

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Speaker 3: there's things like just the way that social medias lead out.

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Speaker 3: I think it really controls like how much time you

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Speaker 3: spend on it, much energy you invest into and of

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Speaker 3: course even just our neighborhoods, our environments, our cities with

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Speaker 3: they laid out, it tends to affect you know, just

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Speaker 3: how often we go out, where we go, what needs

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Speaker 3: a transportation we use, and I mean with physical infrastructures concerned,

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Speaker 3: and how it's been used to control people. That goes

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Speaker 3: way back into history. You know, coloneal powers often built

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Speaker 3: transport infrastructure in like roads and railways and ports with

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Speaker 3: the very explicit purpose of extracting raw materials from the

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Speaker 3: colonized territories to get to the imperial core. You know,

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Speaker 3: the systems we're not designed to say over the mobility

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Speaker 3: needs of the local populations. They usually create a direct

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Speaker 3: line from the mines and the plantations and the resource

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Speaker 3: rich areas to the coastal ports where they could be exported.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so for the British and perialists and lovers

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Speaker 3: of empire, they often brag that, you know, we built ports,

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Speaker 3: and we built bridges, and we built roads, and we

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Speaker 3: built really as well. It's the same pattern everywhere. You know,

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Speaker 3: in India it was used to move cotton, tea and

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Speaker 3: other resources from the interior to the ship and ports.

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Speaker 3: In Ghana it was used to move gold and cuckoo.

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Speaker 3: But in any case, it wasn't to interconnect within the city,

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Speaker 3: you know, the actual economic self determination of the people. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: in that area, it didn't matter.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, very much too.

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Speaker 4: I think about this, like, I cycled around Rwanda in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty, which is an interesting time to be traveling,

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Speaker 4: but I remember riding around them. The Kunar Rwanda word

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Speaker 4: for dirt road is iqitaka, right, and so that's what

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Speaker 4: mostly So we cycled on these dirt.

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Speaker 6: Roads and it was lovely.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: We'd go through the village and everyone would come out

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Speaker 4: and wave at you, and like the little kids would

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Speaker 4: come out and be like what the fuck is this bicycle?

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Speaker 4: And it was kind of fun, you know, And then

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Speaker 4: we we'd find someone. It's not really set up for

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Speaker 4: like restaurants, so you just find someone and pay them

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Speaker 4: an amount upon which you agreed and they would give

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Speaker 4: you some food.

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Speaker 6: And that was a beautiful experience.

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Speaker 4: And then there were these roads that they call Chinese

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Speaker 4: roads that just go directly from the mind to the

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Speaker 4: place where the raw material can be extracted. Because between

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Speaker 4: the China was doing a lot of what you could

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Speaker 4: generously call foreign direct investment or like neo colonialism in

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Speaker 4: lots of places in Africa, right, And it was the

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Speaker 4: contrast between those two traveling experiences was so profound, Like

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Speaker 4: obviously you travel faster on the smooth roads, but like

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Speaker 4: you don't immerse yourself in the human experience of meeting

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Speaker 4: and sharing that travel with people, which is why I

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Speaker 4: do these things in the first place. With just like

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Speaker 4: such a profound contrast. I remember it really striking me

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Speaker 4: at the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and this is what empires and rulers

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Speaker 3: in general have been doing, right, They they wield their

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Speaker 3: control over labor to set things up in a way

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Speaker 3: that fulfills their interests. Yeah, and then you know, even

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Speaker 3: when people key in some sort of nominal independence and

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Speaker 3: they inherit these colonial infrastructure grids, or you know, they

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Speaker 3: have investments coming in and they have set up they

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Speaker 3: have these companies, it's a multinational companies setting up infrastructure.

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Speaker 5: It still continues, you know.

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Speaker 3: The sort of extractivist and top down nature of the

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Speaker 3: way the infrastructure is set up. You know, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: reimagine all of them, don't reimagine the logic of what

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Speaker 3: came before. You're in part for lack of funding and

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Speaker 3: in part for lack of imagination. And so in a

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Speaker 3: lot of places, the peripheral regions in these countries are

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Speaker 3: still lacking in connectivity. They're still lagging behind the rest

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Speaker 3: of the country. They still don't have access to some

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Speaker 3: of the basic social services and resources that the urban

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Speaker 3: core has because you know, the urban rural divide in

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Speaker 3: many ways mimics the corporate free divide on.

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Speaker 5: The international stage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you have these neo colonial development aid

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Speaker 3: programs coming in with the IMF for the World Band,

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Speaker 3: and you have even more infrastructure projects. So just repeat

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Speaker 3: this extractive pattern under the ban of development. Of course,

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Speaker 3: real development will be connecting people encouraging people to participate

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Speaker 3: in society and distribute opportunity. But the infrastructure that tends

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Speaker 3: to be set up is more so for consolidating state

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Speaker 3: power and channeling the movement of people in predictable, survailable ways,

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Speaker 3: and prioritizing access for certain populations while excluding or marginalizing others. So,

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Speaker 3: of course infrastructure development has the capacity to help people.

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Speaker 3: You know, it can increase accessibility, can make people's lives easier,

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Speaker 3: and it can also just manage and contain them and

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Speaker 3: varied sources. And we see a lot more examples of

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Speaker 3: this sort of infrastructure control when you look at the

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Speaker 3: class and racial dynamic within societies. Those sorts of divisions

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Speaker 3: and separations and stratifications they of course manifest physically. You know,

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Speaker 3: in the US you had literal segregation areas that were

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Speaker 3: designated for black people, listening for white people, water fountains

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Speaker 3: and neighborhoods and all these different things. You also had

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Speaker 3: redlining policies, and nowadays you have spaces that were redlined

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Speaker 3: and thus lacked investment, and thus when neglected infrastructurally due

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Speaker 3: to that racial and economic inequality, those spaces are now

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Speaker 3: right for development in the form of gentrification because the

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Speaker 3: property is so cheap, so undervalued, and so the people

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Speaker 3: who made something out of that lack are now being

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Speaker 3: pushed out. And in South Africa, I mean, up until recently,

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Speaker 3: these are partid era policies created townships that were deliberately

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Speaker 3: located far from white urban centers, there were lacked and

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Speaker 3: services and transit options, and physically reinforced the racial division

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Speaker 3: of that society. And even today around the world you

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Speaker 3: have human zoning laws and transit access limitations and public

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Speaker 3: holes and policies that recreates historical class divisions and racial divisions,

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Speaker 3: ethnic divisions. And I'm sure you and your with all

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Speaker 3: of the I mean, every time I talked to you

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Speaker 3: have like a new travel story to tell. I'm sure

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Speaker 3: you've witnessed something like this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just thinking of how like I was

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Speaker 4: thinking of like if we think about the Syrian state

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Speaker 4: as a contiguous colony, right, like it's called the Syrian

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Speaker 4: Arab Republic, but not all the people who are contained

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Speaker 4: within the territory in which it once claimed the monopoly

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Speaker 4: on violence.

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Speaker 6: Are Arab people.

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Speaker 4: So we think of the parts of the North and

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Speaker 4: East Syria majority Kurdish areas as colonized. We can see

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Speaker 4: that reflected in the infrastructure.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 4: Part of that is, as you say, this sort of

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Speaker 4: lack of investment. But then also part of it is

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Speaker 4: every government funded building, right, Schools, hospitals, the buildings you go.

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Speaker 6: In to do the paperwork you have to do to

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Speaker 6: exist under the state.

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Speaker 4: They're set up like strong points, Like they're designed with

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Speaker 4: a big kind of wall and then a big courtyard

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Speaker 4: and then thick exteriors like they're designed to be militarily

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Speaker 4: defensible against the people they're supposed to serve. Right, Like

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Speaker 4: the school is designed to be used as a fucking

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Speaker 4: machine gun position. And once you see it, you see

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Speaker 4: it everywhere, and you think about the nature of the

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Speaker 4: state that designs infrastructure with that explicitly in mind, Right,

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Speaker 4: it's fascinating. The other example I think of is like

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Speaker 4: Chris Elam's done some fantastic writing on the development of Barcelona,

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Speaker 4: and you have like the unregulated working class for Raval,

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Speaker 4: like this area just next to the Rambler where the

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Speaker 4: streets are just fucking small, a winding and crazy and

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Speaker 4: there's never not laundry kind of over you know, over

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Speaker 4: your head, and it's a very I like to go there.

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Speaker 6: It's a place that I enjoy.

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Speaker 4: And then you have the ijumpler, which means extension where

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Speaker 4: the infrastructure is extremely like it's probably one of the

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Speaker 4: earlier grid cities that you would see, right. And the

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Speaker 4: idea was that like these these overcrowded kind of what

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Speaker 4: were in the nineteen twenties and thirty slums would be

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Speaker 4: like where the working class would be kept. And the

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Speaker 4: working class, to be clear, were like seen as there

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Speaker 4: was a colonial relationship between the boys who are the

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Speaker 4: working class in Barcelona because most of the working class

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Speaker 4: were not Catalan. They would actually put signs at the

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Speaker 4: top of these working class areas saying like Mutia begins here, right,

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Speaker 4: these are the Musians and people from Mustia, the people

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Speaker 4: from outside of Catalonia, and Catalonia stops here where the

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Speaker 4: working class exist. That later reflected in the working class

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Speaker 4: self identity, like it came to refer to the Ravala's Chinatown,

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Speaker 4: not specifically because of a high concentration of people from

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Speaker 4: from the Chinese diaspora, but because they've seen Chicago gangster

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Speaker 4: movies where Chinatown was like the area where the gangsters were,

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Speaker 4: and they were like, yeah, we're fucking gangster, like we're

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Speaker 4: going to call it Chinatown that you want to come

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Speaker 4: in here, will fucking shoot you. Like I thought that

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Speaker 4: was really fascinating, like response to the way that they

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Speaker 4: have been alienated by infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and that's why when you when you

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Speaker 3: look at the sort of claims that, oh, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just it's just roads, it's just zonating, it's just

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Speaker 3: a city grid, it's just an embassy, it's just a

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Speaker 3: government office. It's like no, these sorts of spaces, these buildings,

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Speaker 3: it's infrastructure could never be neutral. Yeah, and when you

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Speaker 3: see that, you can't unsee it because you look at

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Speaker 3: the amount of decisions it would have had to have

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Speaker 3: gone into, you know, some of the examples you mentioned

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Speaker 3: or the examples I mentioned, you know, the design decisions

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Speaker 3: and say, okay, we're gonna put this rule would hear

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Speaker 3: instead of here, Yeah, we're going to use this material

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Speaker 3: instead of this material. Who you employ to build those

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Speaker 3: structures that infrastructure also as an impact in the surrounding area.

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Speaker 3: Are you employing people within the community, employing people outside?

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Speaker 3: What's happening there? Who's funding this infrastructure, who's maintaining the infrastructure? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: what level of surveillance has been implemented, Where are the

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Speaker 3: public transportation roots and why they here not there?

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Speaker 4: You know, yeah, exactly, Like there's people whose opinions and

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Speaker 4: views matter in that process, and there are people who

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Speaker 4: are excluded from it.

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Speaker 5: Exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: One of the authors I tend to go back too

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Speaker 3: often is the Vandalists because he critics a lot of

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Speaker 3: this stuff, particularly infrastructure's control and tools. Look in Viviality.

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Speaker 3: He spoke about how modern transport and urban design have

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Speaker 3: been used to alienate people from their own bodies and communities.

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Speaker 3: So you call a lot the usual suspects suburbanization, car

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Speaker 3: centric infrastructure, how it isolates people and increases dependence on vehicles,

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Speaker 3: and he called this dependence a radical monopoly because all

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Speaker 3: the other choices have effectively been eliminated. Technically, you could

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Speaker 3: walk along the highway, but you're not going to You're

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Speaker 3: going to get a cart, right, you can't choose to

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Speaker 3: walk a cycle in that sort of scenario.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, someone's going to call the cops that you try

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Speaker 4: that in America, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So as a lich sor it, it's really a cultural

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Speaker 3: imposition that shapes how we end up living, interacting move

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Speaker 3: in and it's frustrated. And on the global stage, you

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Speaker 3: also see how infrastructure has the capacity to control the

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Speaker 3: whole geopolitical board. You know, the Suez Canal, the Panama Canal,

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Speaker 3: the Red Sea, the straight Orf home moves, all these

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Speaker 3: places have a lot of power militarily, trade wise, phlegmatically

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Speaker 3: because they control the flow of oil, or.

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Speaker 5: Of goods, or of data.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, particularly in the areas where the undersea internet cables run.

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Speaker 3: And so speaking of data, actually the realm of digital

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Speaker 3: infrastructures also very insiguous when it comes to control. We

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Speaker 3: tend to think of the Internet as that sort of

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Speaker 3: ephemeral cloud, right, but the cloud is hosted physically. You know,

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Speaker 3: there are sofas, there are fiber optic cables, they are

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Speaker 3: data centers, all these things. They're not as obvious as

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Speaker 3: roads and railways and you know, neighborhoods, but they are

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Speaker 3: just as if not in some ways even more powerful

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Speaker 3: in terms of controlling what people access, how fast they

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Speaker 3: access it, under what terms they access it, or because

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Speaker 3: it's so intangible it's so hard to pin down, it

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Speaker 3: can often escape scrutiny. But there are companies that own

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Speaker 3: these things. There's a small group of very powerful corporations

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Speaker 3: that pretty much dictate how things are running. You know,

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Speaker 3: most people they know about China's Great Firewall and how

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Speaker 3: it's used to coordin off China from the rest of

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Speaker 3: the Internet in some ways. You know, it's sensors to

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Speaker 3: websites and switch results, it monitors people's activity, and it

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Speaker 3: usually has these state monitored alternatives to some of the

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Speaker 3: popular global platforms like Google and Facebook. Right, But Google

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Speaker 3: and Amazon and Meta and Microsoft. It's not like they're

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Speaker 3: any better. You know, they're don't run and things republic

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Speaker 3: could so if you will call out what China's doing

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Speaker 3: with the with the Great Firewall, and I agree, I

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Speaker 3: don't think that any govement should have any control over

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Speaker 3: what people access. But you know, it's not like censorship,

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Speaker 3: data harvested and surveillance are unique to China. You know

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Speaker 3: a lot of other governments, in collaboration with these companies

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Speaker 3: deploy soft censorship. You know, they de rank things in

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Speaker 3: the algorithm, they filter certain keywords, they selectively block certain things. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: things are maybe automatically flagged or moderated, and that often

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Speaker 3: affects people from the LGBTQ community in countries where you

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Speaker 3: know that's that's a fig no no, or you have

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Speaker 3: even the manipulation of language, the words people use as

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Speaker 3: people try to get around censors. Hence the proliferation of

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Speaker 3: terms like great and essay and self delete and unlive

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Speaker 3: and all these other euphemisms which I mean, on a step,

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Speaker 3: I don't use any of them, and I despise them.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 3: The thing is a lot of people assume that these

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Speaker 3: words are censored and all platforms, but they're not. You know,

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Speaker 3: they may be censored on one platform, usually it's TikTok

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Speaker 3: or limited in one platform. And then if people take

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Speaker 3: that sort of TikTok sort of way of speaking and

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Speaker 3: spread it across the rest of the internet, or will

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Speaker 3: see it bring it into real life and end up

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Speaker 3: saying things like unlive in real life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and then you have allowed fucking TikTok's algorithm

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Speaker 4: to determine the way you can express yourself.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly, And I mean, TikTok has a lot of

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Speaker 3: heat these days because you know, rightfully so, it's very popular,

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Speaker 3: it has a lot of influence, and it's you know,

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Speaker 3: very bleatantly interventionist with its content in some damage in

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Speaker 3: ways but again, the other big cooperations are not immune either.

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Speaker 3: I mean Facebook was famously found culpable for genocide, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they played a major role in the sort of attitudes

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Speaker 3: that were developing and the marginalization that was sort of

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Speaker 3: targeting Hinger community and the subsequent genocide.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I was on a panel with some my Hinder

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Speaker 4: people the other day and they are still by physical

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Speaker 4: and technical infrastructure, being marginalized. So something myself and my

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Speaker 4: Union friends are trying to do is help the Rahinge

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Speaker 4: of Podcast initiative start podcasting right such that they can

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Speaker 4: share their own voices with the world and their their

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Speaker 4: positions and their opinions. It's very important at a time

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Speaker 4: when like they're facing marginalization even from revolutionary forces within

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Speaker 4: me and and we cannot sustain an Internet connection to

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Speaker 4: allow them to do that. We tried to do a

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Speaker 4: live panel and it was very hard for you know,

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Speaker 4: these guys are running around Cox is bizarre, where tens

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Speaker 4: of thousands of Hinga people live in refugee camps trying

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Speaker 4: to find connectivity, like just another example of how they

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Speaker 4: continue to be marginalized by the systems that first allowed

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Speaker 4: them to be genocided exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because the private cooperations alone and our response, well

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Speaker 3: for this is the governm months too. You know, when

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Speaker 3: the corporations still tell the gover months to do something,

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Speaker 3: the golf months comply. And then when the golf months

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Speaker 3: tell the corporations to do stuff, a lot of the time,

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Speaker 3: it's also like they comply. It's collaboration, you know, especially

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Speaker 3: since they government has the power in a lot of

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Speaker 3: cases to shut down the Internet when things are not

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Speaker 3: going their way. You know, they've they used it and

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Speaker 3: all of it. Recently, you have the suppression of the

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Speaker 3: center in protests, you know, to influence elections or to

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Speaker 3: restrict information, substructionalism and communication during crises.

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Speaker 5: When you look at.

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Speaker 3: All over the world Iran, India, Sudan, Yanma, Uganda, even

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Speaker 3: in Gaza. In all these cases, these governments step in

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Speaker 3: and they limit or they shut down the Internet entirely

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Speaker 3: to prevent the news from getting out. You know, they

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Speaker 3: could target either the entire Internet or they target platforms.

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Speaker 3: They target WhatsApp, they target Twitter. They justify by saying,

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Speaker 3: oh they're going after take news or there's a security threat.

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Speaker 5: Yeah it's bullshit, but you know, we could see through that.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And it's tough because I mean, this is where these are,

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Speaker 3: These are the places where people have gathered. These are

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Speaker 3: the online town squares, you know, and these these this

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Speaker 3: infrastructure is very much centralized. Google controls most of the

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Speaker 3: search on the internet. Amazon dominates e commerce and cloud,

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Speaker 3: computer and logistics, and Meta controls a lot of people's

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Speaker 3: social interactions. You know, I could brag and say, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm not on Facebook, but you know, I still use

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Speaker 3: What'sapp because everybody else uses WhatsApp. Yeah, And it's it's

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Speaker 3: so easy for them, because we're so concentrated on these platforms,

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Speaker 3: It's so easy for them to pop at us, to

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Speaker 3: flex their their muscles and control the direction of public discourse.

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Speaker 3: And I mean it's amplifying things, suppressing other things, maximizing

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Speaker 3: our engagements, exploiting our cognitive and vulnerabilities, polarizing discourse, distorted reality.

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Speaker 5: It's like, what the hell do we do?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And so for the the Opium segment of the podcast,

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Speaker 3: I just want to point out that, you know, infrastructure

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Speaker 3: can be used to consolidate power and control people, but

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Speaker 3: it can also be used to resist and to reticular

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Speaker 3: a collective agency. You know, even infrastructure there was originally

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Speaker 3: designed to control can be taken under our control. You know,

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Speaker 3: around the world, communities have been able to challenge these

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Speaker 3: extractive logics to build their own infrastructures on their own terms.

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Speaker 3: You know, in digital spaces, this might take the form

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Speaker 3: of community built mash networks or alternative Internet local servers.

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Speaker 3: You know, you have projects like guifi dot net in Catalonia,

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Speaker 3: or you have the NYC Mesh in New York, and

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Speaker 3: these are efforts to engage in you know, pay to

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Speaker 3: pay and decentralized communications with all the reliance and the

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Speaker 3: telecom giants. And then you also, of course physically have

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Speaker 3: examples of infrastructure resisting central control, participatory urban planet movements.

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Speaker 3: You have gorilla urbanism. You have you know, of course,

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Speaker 3: the long and storied history of squatting otherwise known as

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Speaker 3: informal settlement. And these informal settlements are hubs of innovation

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Speaker 3: and a lot of cases in things like Nai Rubi or

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Speaker 3: in Rio Gario. You know, these these slums and favelas,

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Speaker 3: they're hooking up their own electricity, hooking up their own internet,

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Speaker 3: hooking up their own water is supply. Yeah, because they

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Speaker 3: recognize that this is within their hands, this is within

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Speaker 3: their capacity. You know, we don't have to have everything,

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Speaker 3: you know, passed on to us from one hye. You know,

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Speaker 3: we can you know, sort of claim our own voices

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Speaker 3: and design our own spaces. If you're really interested in

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Speaker 3: how infrastructure has the capacity to control and really just

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Speaker 3: how states sort of see things, I have to of

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Speaker 3: course recommend the classic James C. Scott Seeing like a State.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I mean it's that's a foundational framework to understand

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Speaker 3: and how infrastructure is used for social engineering. It's really

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Speaker 3: readable as well, so definitely give that a read, and

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Speaker 3: you know, think about ways that you can contribute to

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Speaker 3: shaping the infrastructure around you. And I don't know, James,

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Speaker 3: if you have any stories along this vein you can

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Speaker 3: leave us off with.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think of a ton right, Like

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Speaker 4: even I think about like when I was a lot younger,

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Speaker 4: I lived in a I guess what you could call

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Speaker 4: a slum of Leila, like a pretty economically disadvantage to

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Speaker 4: part of Kadakus for a little while and like at

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Speaker 4: the time, and I've seen it's when I lived in

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Speaker 4: Barcelona too, I guess the English word would be info

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Speaker 4: shop they normally call them social centers would be the

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Speaker 4: Spanish word, or social spaces, and like it was cool

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Speaker 4: to this is a city which is established through colonialism, right,

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Speaker 4: And there was a brief time before things were terrible

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Speaker 4: in Venezuela where people were trying to make it and

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Speaker 4: largely it was people trying to make things better, and

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Speaker 4: like the state for a time allowed a space for

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Speaker 4: that to exist before it stopped allowing a space for

435
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 4: that to exist, which is where we're at right now, right,

436
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 4: and very clearly the state right now is very repressive

437
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 4: in Venezuela, to be clear, Like I didn't want to

438
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 4: give put fuel on the tanky fire or whatever, but

439
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 4: it was actually a really beautiful thing and it facilitated, right,

440
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 4: I was like nineteen.

441
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 6: My Spanish was dog shit. I was hungry all the time.

442
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 4: It didn't have any food, you know, But it facilitated

443
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 4: that community taking care of me because the spaces were

444
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: public and people could see if people were falling.

445
00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 6: Through the cracks.

446
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: Right, I think a lot about refugee camps, so obviously

447
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 4: that somewhere has spent a decent amount of time, right

448
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 4: both within the US and outside of the US, and

449
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 4: something I've been thinking about a lot recently, is how

450
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 4: so many of the people I met on the way

451
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 4: to the United States and the Dadienne had horrific experiences

452
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 4: in the Dadianne and afterwards, but they also miss the

453
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 4: community that they had, Like they also miss the profound

454
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 4: solidarity of just talking to people the other day who

455
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 4: were telling me, like when they were hungry in the jungle,

456
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 4: strangers who didn't speak their language would try and give

457
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 4: them food.

458
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, you see that in a lot of disasters too,

459
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: this sort of explosion and mutually.

460
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like refugee camp is a place where you

461
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 4: do not have privacy for the most part, and that's

462
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: not always great, but it facilitates caring for one another.

463
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 4: And like, I don't know, I have this recollection from

464
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 4: seven or eight years ago. Now I'm walking through a

465
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 4: refugee camp in Mexican and just a very little girl

466
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 4: from six seven something like that, And I have long hair.

467
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 4: People can't see me, but she likes to like mess

468
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 4: with my hand braided shit. And I'm carrying this little girl,

469
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 4: and like I've been coming for some time, and like

470
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 4: the sense of community that you felt there amongst like

471
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 4: a really terrible situation, but like because everyone can see

472
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 4: you walking down his little walkway, Everyone's like, oh hi,

473
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 4: how are you? Like you know, the kind of I'm

474
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: trying to work out what they what they need and

475
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 4: how we can best help. Like I just remember thinking

476
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 4: like what the fuck is wrong with and then going

477
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: back to the United States, right, and sitting in my

478
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 4: little house and like, you know, you know, like that,

479
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 4: like I'm fortunate to know my neighbors and to be

480
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 4: close to them, but not many people are. And like

481
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 4: for most people, you know that they get out of

482
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 4: the house and go to their car, they drive to

483
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: their work.

484
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 6: They don't say hi to anyone.

485
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: Like it's so strange that, like, in a sense, in

486
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: those refugee camps were close to the beautiful life that

487
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 4: we want than we are in these million dollar homes.

488
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 4: In my house does not cost a million dollars. I

489
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 4: don't own a house. But the profound alienation that we feel,

490
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 4: in part because of the physical infrastructure, the ability of

491
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 4: humanity to fall back into caring for one another, to like,

492
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 4: that's what we do when we are not like physically

493
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 4: and like intellectually restrained from doing it by structures both

494
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 4: both physical and digital, and even emotional that divide us

495
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 4: from one another. And I've kind of thought about that

496
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 4: ever since, Like, how do I build a place where

497
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: people have more stability, people have privacy, people have their

498
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 4: material needs.

499
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: Men, Yeah, does you want to strike a balance infrastructure? Yeah,

500
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 3: I don't want There's some coh hopes and sort of

501
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: plans that I've seen, for example, but don't even really

502
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: factor any much privacy, which.

503
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: I'm not for at all.

504
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: But the one after recreate their their dorm room experience

505
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 3: or in my case, they are sharing a bedroom the

506
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 3: entire childhood experience.

507
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 4: So yeah, we need to have space for people to

508
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: have privacy, but at the same time space for people

509
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 4: to have community, and like, cities can exist like that,

510
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 4: Communities can exist like that. They're the theory of the

511
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: Mediterranean public sphere that sometimes comes up where like again

512
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 4: in working class Barcelona, right, people don't generally have air

513
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 4: conditioning and it can't get very hot, so you just

514
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time outside balcony whatever, you know,

515
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 4: front port if you've got one that creates community, right,

516
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 4: that creates a public sphere, like a place that is

517
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 4: it's not quite our home, but it's not controlled by

518
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 4: someone else either, it's like a community space, and that

519
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 4: doesn't exist in like I don't live in the suburbs,

520
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 4: but like suburban America, you know, where everyone has these

521
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: like literal fences around all the shit that they own.

522
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that exists the very an extent in Trinidad. Yeah,

523
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: you know, some areas are very much communal and other

524
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 3: areas like trying desperately to be America.

525
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

526
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, it's kind of a mix of both

527
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: wheels there, at the very least from what I'm aware

528
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: of what I can tell people, at least say height

529
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: to the neighbors, though, Yeah, that's that's still like a

530
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: horrifying you know, like.

531
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 6: Mirrors respecter of not knowing your neighbors.

532
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: Thing that I've heard of America in life that you

533
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: don't even say hi, Yeah, you know, you don't even

534
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: wave at people Like that's yeah.

535
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 4: No, I'm always in my neighbor's houses and they're always

536
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: at my house. And like I'm a person who owns

537
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 4: a lot of tools, you know, like different spanners and stuff,

538
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 4: so like I'm like I will go out of my

539
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 4: weight to make sure that my neighbors know they can

540
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 4: borrow my ship and and like that does seem to

541
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 4: be quite a new experience for people who are like

542
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 4: new in the neighborhood or what ever.

543
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 6: But yeah, we should all do that.

544
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 4: It's such an easy way to fight that alienation and

545
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 4: the infrastructure that you know, like, yeah, there's a wall

546
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 4: between where I live and where the person next door lives.

547
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 4: But yeah I can I can knock on the door

548
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 4: and say, hey, it looks like you're having some trouble

549
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 4: with your truck. Do you need a hand or what

550
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 4: have you?

551
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean what you're saying is it could

552
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: happen here.

553
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you gotta make maybe the good things happen

554
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 4: here too, because enough of the fucking bad shares.

555
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: Indeed, Laza for me, guys, all power to all the people.

556
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 9: Please this is it could happen here. The show about

557
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 9: things for falling apart. One thing falling apart last year.

558
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 9: I guess the president's mental health seemingly so. And we're

559
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 9: going to talk about that today and some possible ramifications

560
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 9: that the current president may be trying to exploit to

561
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 9: help him out. Robert Evans, Hello, how are you?

562
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: I'm fine? Is something wrong with the president?

563
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 9: The current one or the old one?

564
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: Any president ever. Has a president ever done wrong?

565
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 9: I heard some nasty things about mister Clinton.

566
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: Interesting. I woke up today for the first time, so

567
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: this is all new to me.

568
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 8: Yeah.

569
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 9: Just don't look on like the news or the internet

570
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 9: or anything, and it should be Okay.

571
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: That's good. I'm just going to start reading Wikipedia at

572
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: the A section and see if I get to anything

573
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: bad about a president.

574
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 9: So since taking office, Trump has actually sort of been

575
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 9: going soft on old sleepy Joe, not out of the

576
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 9: goodness of his own heart, right, but to possibly explore

577
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 9: legal options to get around some of the roadblocks Trump's

578
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 9: been facing in the judicial branch.

579
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense.

580
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 9: Trump's been arguing that Biden himself was mostly absent, especially

581
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 9: during the later half of his presidency, and a sort

582
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 9: of like secret cabal of cabinet members, DNC consultants, white

583
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 9: House staff, and aids were running a shadow presidency.

584
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of my constant takes is there are

585
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: no secret cabals. There's a lot of cabals. They're all

586
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: very obvious, very public, very public cabals.

587
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 9: But this secret cabal of like DNC interns, we're using

588
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 9: Biden's signature via auto pen to set policy, make judicial appointments,

589
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 9: and sign orders, all with little to zero awareness from

590
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 9: poor old six sleepy Joe. In fact, people around Biden

591
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 9: intentionally covered up his declining health to continue using his

592
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 9: presidential power for their own progressive agenda.

593
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: If only they'd used it for that, and not just

594
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: to keep getting.

595
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 9: Paychecks or sending bombs to Israel, or sending bombs to

596
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 9: Israel many of the other, many of the other things

597
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 9: that Yeah Biden seemed to preoccupied with. I would have

598
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 9: play a clip from a month and a half ago

599
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 9: Donald Trump, current president, explaining this conspiracy of the secret

600
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 9: Joe Biden cabal.

601
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 7: I'm sure that he didn't know many of the things. Look,

602
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 7: he was never for open borders, he was never for

603
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 7: transgender for everybody. He was never for men playing in

604
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 7: women's sports. I mean he changed, I mean all of

605
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 7: these things that changed so radically. I don't think he

606
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 7: had any idea that what was Frankly, I said it

607
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 7: during the debate and I say it now. He didn't

608
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 7: have much of.

609
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 8: An idea what was going on.

610
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 6: He shouldn't be.

611
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 7: I mean, essentially, whoever used the autopen was the president.

612
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 7: And that is wrong, It's illegal, it's so bad, and

613
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 7: it's so disrespectful to our country.

614
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 9: Transgender for everybody, the defining legacy of the Biden era. Sure,

615
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 9: it's his core policy platform.

616
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I don't know, Like, what do you even

617
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 2: say at this point? Right, Like, honestly, he's sending troops

618
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: into the second major city, this one the capitol and

619
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 2: taking over the control of the police force. How much

620
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 2: is it worth just being like, oh and he said

621
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: another thing that's not true, Like, I know it's important

622
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: to cover all this, but also like, man, I'm tired.

623
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, no, it's it's it's incredibly frustrating because they

624
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 9: get to deploy these these absurd little lines every once

625
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 9: in a while and it captures media attention, and the

626
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 9: physical things that they're doing do not get as much

627
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 9: like awareness.

628
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: And there's this constant I think misinterpretation as to like

629
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: this is all a distraction from this and this and this,

630
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: and it does sometimes function that way, but this isn't.

631
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: They're not doing this because it's a distraction. They're doing

632
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: this because they also hate this group of people. So

633
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: when I hurt this group of people, there's a lot

634
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: of people they want to hurt, and they want to

635
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: do it in different ways.

636
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 9: And they're kind of playing a longer game with the

637
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 9: focus on this quote unquote autopen, and it remains to

638
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 9: be seen if it's going to be successful or you know,

639
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 9: pay off for them. But I do want to talk

640
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 9: about it now since this is on like you know,

641
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 9: a month, like four of them slowly seeding this into

642
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 9: popular discourse. It's like a new thing because every once

643
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 9: in a while, they have to decide what the new

644
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 9: thing is. Right a few years ago, they decided it

645
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 9: was trans people. They decided it was DEI, they decided

646
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 9: it was how the twenty twenty election was stolen. They

647
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 9: just decide that there's like some major problem, and then

648
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 9: they repeat it often enough that it becomes like something

649
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 9: that seemingly a share of voters actually care about. And

650
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 9: they're trying to make autopen be a thing. And there

651
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 9: is actual, like possible results of them focusing on this

652
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 9: as we as we will see. But the autopen fixation

653
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 9: started this past March when Trump posted a truth on

654
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 9: truth social claiming that Biden's preemptive partons of members of

655
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 9: the January sixth Investigation House Committee are quote hereby declared void, vacant,

656
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 9: and of no further force of effect because of the

657
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 9: fact that they were done by autopen unquote. Great, this

658
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 9: is not real. This is not this is not like

659
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 9: a real thing that he can disclaim on truth social.

660
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: But what's real? You know?

661
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 9: There is no requirement that pardons even be signed, only

662
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 9: that they're accepted by a subject. In nineteen twenty nine,

663
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 9: the Uslister General concluded in a memo that quotes, neither

664
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 9: the Constitution nor any statute prescribes the method by which

665
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 9: executive clemency shall be exercised or evidenced. So he can't

666
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 9: just do this here. But this was kind of the

667
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 9: opening of the door for the rest of what we're

668
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 9: going to talk about this episode. And I guess before

669
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 9: we get into that, I should talk about what an

670
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 9: autopen is. An autopen is a tool to automate the

671
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 9: signing of documents by replicating a signature. And this is

672
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 9: a machine or a type of machine that's long been

673
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 9: used in the White House, like Thomas Jefferson bought and

674
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 9: used an early iteration of such a device shortly after

675
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 9: was patent in eighteen oh three, Lennon B. Johnson's auto

676
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 9: pen was photographed in the White House for a National

677
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 9: Inquiry or recover story titled the Robot that sits in

678
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 9: for the President. And it's funny that now you get

679
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 9: Fox News headlines that are basically written very similarly talking

680
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 9: about how actually a robot or the autopen itself was

681
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 9: acting as president and that's like a controversy, okay versus

682
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 9: it was just like a fun news story back in

683
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 9: the fifties.

684
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: How many of the guys angry about this literally want

685
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: an LLM to be the president? Yes, exactly, that's my question.

686
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 9: No, at least at least half, at least half the

687
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 9: other half don't know what an ll ish.

688
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: No.

689
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 5: Now.

690
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 9: Obama was the first president to openly sign legislation with

691
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 9: an autopen, including the extension of the Patriot Act in

692
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 9: twenty eleven while at the G eight summit in France,

693
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 9: and the constitutionality of the autopen has never been tested

694
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 9: or explicitly determined in court. In two thousand and five,

695
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 9: President George W. Bush asked the Justice Department for its

696
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 9: opinion on the validity of the autopen for signing legislation

697
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 9: and other official policy documents. The Office of Thegal Council

698
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 9: found that quote, the President need not personally perform the

699
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 9: physical act of fixing his signature to a bill he

700
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 9: approves and decides to sign in order for the bill

701
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 9: to become law. Rather, the president may sign a bill

702
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 9: by directing a subordinate to a fix the president's signature

703
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 9: to such a bill, for example, by autopen unquote, though

704
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 9: there still is debate whether the president needs to be

705
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 9: physically present during this process or simply authorize the signing.

706
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 9: And you know, you have people like Steven Miller in

707
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 9: this administration who try to find niche little laws or

708
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 9: statutes to then apply in a way that it was

709
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 9: probably never designed or we have since these laws inceptions

710
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 9: have decided not to use the laws in that way

711
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 9: because that doesn't make sense of our current context. But

712
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 9: someone like Miller very willing to do such a thing.

713
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 9: And there could be, for instance, some obscure aspect or

714
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 9: interpretation of like proxy signature laws that they could try

715
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 9: to like form course through into their interpretation of like

716
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,439
Speaker 9: Article one, section seven of the Constitution, which might make

717
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 9: some auto pen signatures in valid. But this is something

718
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 9: that's like kind of dismissed in a lot of legal

719
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 9: circles because as like a practical matter, it would be

720
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 9: disastrous to start rescinding executive actions based on this interpretation,

721
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 9: because like decades and decades of laws and regulations would

722
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 9: then fall into question and possibly become void. So lots

723
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 9: of people just like kind of don't think this is

724
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 9: like a real question or a real concern, And part

725
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 9: of me thinks that as well. But as like someone

726
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 9: like Miller is demonstrated, they're absolutely willing to use like

727
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 9: niche arguments or precedents to do some pretty like crazy stuff.

728
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 9: Do you know what is not very crazy?

729
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: Robert paying money to the sponsors of this show.

730
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 9: It's an extremely reasonable act.

731
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 2: It's the only sane thing you can do. If you

732
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: do anything else, you are being fifty one fifty, then

733
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 2: you'll be on an involuntary seventy two hour hold. That's

734
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: the way the law works.

735
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 9: All right, we are back. So with this Biden autopen thing,

736
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 9: it's not really about the autopen. The autopen actually is

737
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 9: not the problem here kind of at all. That's not

738
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 9: what they're really focusing on. In early June, the Justice

739
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 9: Department launched an investigation into Biden's alleged use of the autopen,

740
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 9: with the DOJ Pardon Attorney ed Martin writing in an

741
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 9: email that this investigation is to determine whether Joe Biden

742
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 9: was quote competent and whether others were taking advantage of

743
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 9: him through use of the autopen or other means unquote,

744
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 9: with a specific focus on the primpt of pardons for

745
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 9: members of Biden's family and clemency for thirty seven death

746
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 9: Row inmates who sentences were converted to life in prison.

747
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 9: So this is the real crux whether Biden was competent

748
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 9: and whether people were using the autopen without his knowledge.

749
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 9: And I think the reason why they're there start by

750
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 9: focusing on these pardons, whether for January sixth investigation committee

751
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 9: members or for those close to Biden. Like this all

752
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 9: relates to Trump's campaign promise of retribution.

753
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 6: Right.

754
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 9: You can think of Cash Betel's list of deep state

755
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 9: actors that he wants to investigate, like that was such

756
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 9: a core part of what Trump campaigned on, and he

757
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 9: does still seem keen on fulfilling parts of that promise.

758
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 9: Now Ed Martin, the DOJ pardon attorney investigating this auto

759
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 9: pen debacle himself, has said that the president's pardon power

760
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 9: is absolute and that using the autopen is quote not

761
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 9: necessarily a problem. But I think the core part here

762
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 9: is that it's not about the autopen itself. It's about

763
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 9: this secret cabal who are using the auto pen without

764
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 9: Biden's knowledge. So a few days after this investigation was announced,

765
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 9: the White House released a public memo from Trump entitled

766
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 9: reviewing Certain Presidential Actions, which ordered the Attorney General and

767
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 9: the White House Council to investigate quote whether certain individual

768
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 9: rules conspired to deceive the public about Biden's mental state

769
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 9: and unconstitutionally exercise to the authorities and responsibilities of the president.

770
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 9: And this document reads like something I would read on

771
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 9: like a conspiracy theory website five years ago. It's written

772
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 9: in a very similar style.

773
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 5: Quote.

774
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 9: President Biden's aides abused the power of presidential signatures through

775
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 9: the use of an auto pen to conceal Biden's cognitive

776
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 9: decline and assert article to authority. This conspiracy marks one

777
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 9: of the most dangerous and concerning scandals in American history.

778
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 9: The American public was purposely shielded from discovering who wielded

779
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 9: the executive power, all while Biden's signature was deployed across

780
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 9: thousands of documents to affect radical policy shifts. Unquote. The

781
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 9: memo states that Biden's advisors uote unquote tried to hide

782
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 9: the true extent of his mental decline to quote cover

783
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 9: up his inability to discharge his duties.

784
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 5: Quote.

785
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 9: The investigation specifically wants to look into which policy documents

786
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 9: were signed via auto pen and who ordered the President's

787
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 9: signature to be a fixed to said documents. One other

788
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 9: quote from the memo quote the White House issued over

789
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 9: twelve hundred presidential documents, appointed two hundred and thirty five

790
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 9: judges to the federal bench, and issued more pardons and

791
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 9: commutations than any administration in United States history. Although the

792
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 9: authority to take these executive actions, along with many others,

793
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 9: is constitutionally committed to the president, there are serious doubts

794
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 9: as to the decision making process and even the degree

795
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 9: of Biden's awareness of these actions being taken in his name.

796
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 9: Given clear indications that President Biden lacked the capacity to

797
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 9: exercise its presidential authority, if his advisors secretly used the

798
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 9: mechanical signature pen to conceal this incapacity while taking radical

799
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 9: executive actions all in his name, that would constitute an

800
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 9: unconstitutional wielding of the power of the presidency. A circumstance

801
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 9: that would have implications for the legality and validity of

802
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 9: numerous executive actions undertaken in Biden's name unquote. So though

803
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 9: the two thousand and five Bush DOJ memo does support

804
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 9: the use of the autopen to a fix the president's signature,

805
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 9: obviously it still must be the president who decides to

806
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 9: sign a document, with the Office of Legal Counsel memo

807
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 9: state in quote, we do not question the substantial authority

808
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 9: supporting the view that the president must personally decide whether

809
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 9: to approve and sign bills. This is pretty obvious, and

810
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 9: that's why so much of the autopen investigations are around

811
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 9: Biden's deteriorating mental state and not the auto pen itself.

812
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 9: It's about trying to prove whether Biden was either not

813
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 9: mentally capable of sufficiently authorizing a signature to be a

814
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 9: fixed to certain documents, or was just completely unaware that

815
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 9: the autopen was signing certain documents with White House advisors

816
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 9: specifically covering up Biden's mental decline to take advantage of

817
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 9: his compromise state to personally direct policy. And that's what

818
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,959
Speaker 9: the investigations are going to try to prove. The White

819
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 9: House is already making repeated assertions that this was the

820
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 9: case and this question may be finally settled in a

821
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 9: Trump sympathetic court, and Republicans are currently trying every angle

822
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 9: of attack on this. Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson has started

823
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 9: a Senate investigation, and a House Oversight Committee investigation is

824
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 9: already up and running. The past month, Kentucky Republican James

825
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 9: Comer has been subpoena in Biden admin officials to testify

826
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 9: on the use of the auto pen and Biden's mental

827
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 9: faculties while in office. Comer's own letters and subpoenas for

828
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 9: this investigation have been signed with a digital signature, because

829
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 9: this is such a common practice in Washington and like

830
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 9: all over the country. Now trying to think of all

831
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 9: the official documents you signed on your computer right now.

832
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 9: Metadata from a subpoena cover letter sent to former Senior

833
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 9: Advisor to the First Lady Anthony Bernal showed the document

834
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 9: was authored and signed by someone named Benzene, an Oversight

835
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 9: Committee staffer, not James Comer. Because again, this is pretty regular.

836
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 9: Even the investigators are doing this process themselves while doing

837
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 9: the investigation. Part of the reason why the Republicans are

838
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 9: trying to make this a continuing story and not just

839
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 9: about you know, the pardons is because as like Biden

840
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 9: appointee judges began blocking Trump's executive orders, the focus on

841
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 9: the autopen turned from just pardons towards use of the

842
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 9: autopen to nominate federal judges. And this is where things

843
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 9: get a lot more slippery. Last month, Fox News asked

844
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 9: House Overseec Committee Chairman James Comer if not just pardons

845
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 9: may be found to be null and void because of

846
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 9: the results of this investigation, but possibly also judicial appointments.

847
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 10: Biden made two hundred and twenty eight judicial appointments, including

848
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 10: forty five Appeals Court and one hundred and eighty seven

849
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 10: District Court judges, and most importantly, Biden appointed Justice Kachanji

850
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 10: Brown Jackson, the Court's most long winded justice who couldn't

851
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 10: even define what a woman is. Mister Chairman, you mentioned

852
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 10: that you're looking at some of the pardons that were

853
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 10: done under President Biden and the use of the autopen,

854
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 10: doctor Fauci being one of them, talking about whether they

855
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 10: were legitimate or not. Are you also looking into Biden's

856
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 10: judicial appointments as well.

857
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 11: Absolutely everything that was signed with the autopan, especially in

858
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 11: the last year of the Biden presidency. This is when

859
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 11: all the books that are being written, all the tell

860
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 11: all interviews that are being recorded from his former disgruntled

861
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 11: staffers and stafferds who are trying to preserve the reputation

862
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 11: for future employment. They're all saying that Joe Biden was

863
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 11: in a deep mental decline and that he was protected

864
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 11: by a very small inner circle. We brought a few

865
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 11: of those people in the inner circle and asked them

866
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 11: simple questions like were you ever told to lie about

867
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 11: the president's health? And they couldn't answer that question. They

868
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 11: had to plead the fifth to avoid self incrimination. This

869
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 11: raises an issue whether these pardons, whether these judicial appointments,

870
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 11: and whether these executive orders are legal. I believe that

871
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 11: if this investigation keeps going in the way that it's going,

872
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 11: that's going to a very serious concerns about whether or

873
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 11: not Joe Biden even you what was going on around him,

874
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 11: much less whether he authorized the use of his signature

875
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 11: on all of this stuff. I think all of these

876
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 11: are in jeopardy of being declared null and void in

877
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 11: a court of law, and that's a big deal for

878
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,359
Speaker 11: the Trump administration, because so much of what Trump is

879
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 11: up against in court now with these liberal, biased Biden

880
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 11: appointed judges is the fact that they're using and citing

881
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 11: some of these executive orders as reason to throw out

882
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 11: President Trump's agenda and President Trump's executive orders. So they

883
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 11: tried to trump proof the the administration on the way

884
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 11: out the door. And the problem that got now is

885
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 11: the American people realize that Joe Biden wasn't the one

886
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 11: calling the shots, and he may very well have not

887
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 11: even been mentally fit to make decisions to authorize the

888
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 11: use of his autopin if he even authorized it. So

889
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 11: this is going to play out in a court of law.

890
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 11: I think our investigation is going to be a substantial

891
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 11: part of evidence in it, and that's why we're doing

892
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 11: the investigation.

893
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, that's that's the rub right there. That's exactly

894
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: what they want, right is to completely peel back the

895
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: last administration or two of judges and make it just

896
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 2: be all their people, a whole justice system that they

897
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 2: completely control.

898
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 9: If they could recall like two hundred and thirty federal judges, yeah,

899
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 9: and fill in two hundred and thirty more like Trump

900
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 9: appointed judges, that would clear out so much of the

901
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 9: legal roadblocks that they're currently fac there.

902
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 5: Yep.

903
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 9: And that is the real crux of their focus on

904
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 9: this issue. That's why they're trying to like insert this

905
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 9: into reality. And they're throwing this autopen story like everywhere.

906
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 9: Even the Epstein files, which don't exist, were concocted by

907
00:50:58,239 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 9: the ever suspicious autopath.

908
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 7: It's a hoax that's been built up way beyond proportion.

909
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 6: I can say this.

910
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 7: Those files were run by the worst come on earth.

911
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 7: They were run by Comy, they were run by Garland,

912
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 7: they were run by Biden and all of the people

913
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 7: that actually ran the government, including the autopen.

914
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 9: Whatever the current big news story is, they're going to

915
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 9: try to shove the auto pen in there because that's

916
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 9: how they operate, that's how they craft reality. Okay, we

917
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 9: are back. So needless to say, Biden and his advisors

918
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 9: have denied all of this. And it's a little tricky

919
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 9: because part of what makes this story slightly compelling for

920
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 9: Trump's team is that obviously Biden's mental health was in

921
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 9: decline for the past few years of his presidency. We

922
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 9: all saw that happen. That like a accepted part of

923
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 9: our country's history. Now we all saw the debate, and

924
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 9: so much of their argument for this is resting on

925
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 9: how much everyone understands that you have a whole bunch

926
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 9: of former White House staff writing books on this topic now.

927
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 9: So with that aspect in mind, they still have to

928
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 9: defend the use of the autopen and Biden's competency and

929
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 9: awareness of all of the decisions being made to do this.

930
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 9: Last month, had his first interview with The New York

931
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 9: Times since like twenty twenty one, where he discussed how

932
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 9: he gave oral authorization for all of the pardons, with

933
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 9: the autopen operation specifically being managed by the Staff Secretary

934
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 9: Stephene Feldman. He said, quote I made every decision. Biden

935
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 9: said that the White House used the autopen specifically for

936
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 9: the last batch of pardons. Biden said that they used

937
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 9: the autopen because of the high number of pardon warrants

938
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 9: issued totaling around four thousand, which affected three categories of

939
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 9: federal convicts, people serving home confinement, non violent drug offenders,

940
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 9: and people on death row. He did not choose or

941
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 9: prove like every single name on that list, but claims

942
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 9: to have determined the criteria and categories, saying, quote I

943
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 9: was deeply involved I laid out a strategy how I

944
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 9: want to go about these dealing with pardons and commutations.

945
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 9: I pulled the team in to say, this is how

946
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 9: I want to get it done generically and then specifically unquote.

947
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 9: In preparation for the final months of the Biden presidency,

948
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 9: his White House counsel wrote an email to staff in

949
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 9: like November of twenty twenty four, laying with the process

950
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 9: four reviewing pardons, the last step being quote the president

951
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 9: makes the final decision on the final pardon and or

952
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 9: the commutation slate unquote. At this point, around a dozen

953
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 9: people have been subpoenaed and are giving testimony, and investigation

954
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 9: is looking through emails from the time, specifically starting with

955
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 9: these pardons, because I think that's the only way they

956
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 9: have to like investigate this right now. It's easier to

957
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 9: investigate the pardons from the last three months the presidency

958
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 9: than just all of the documents as signed over the

959
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 9: course of like four years, or even just two years

960
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 9: if you look at like the past two years of

961
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 9: his presidency. So specifically, they're focusing on the final pardons

962
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 9: as like a way in to figure out the process

963
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 9: for how the autopen was functioning and who was using it,

964
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 9: and they may try to extend that process out to

965
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 9: things like judicial appointments over time. I think trying to

966
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 9: rescind the appointment of someone like a Supreme Court justice

967
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 9: very unlikely because obviously Biden had awareness that that was

968
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 9: going on, but they might try to pull more fucky

969
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 9: shit with the circuit court appointments or that kind of stuff.

970
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 9: I don't think this is like the most important story

971
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 9: facing the country right now. Obviously the stuff going on

972
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 9: in Washington, DC and many other aspects of how the

973
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 9: Trump administration is operating with ice and with trans people

974
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 9: affects people more immediately. But I've been specifically trying to

975
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 9: pull information on how they're crafting this narrative around the

976
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 9: autopen ever since he made that first truth back in March,

977
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 9: because I saw this as a ongoing reality crafting project

978
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 9: which might accumulate in something actually meaningful over time. And

979
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 9: none of these investigations have released their findings yet, and

980
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 9: they're not expected to for at least a few more

981
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 9: weeks to months. But it's something that I think is

982
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 9: worth keeping an eye on right now, especially considering you know,

983
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 9: Miller and others, and like the Heritage foundations focus on

984
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 9: trying to find niche loopholes in which executive power can

985
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 9: be really exercised. And if one of the ways to

986
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 9: remove some of the roadblocks towards this president's executive power

987
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 9: is to undermine the executive power of a previous administration,

988
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 9: it would be the first time we see that strategy

989
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 9: actually enacted. And it sounds like kind of cartoonish, but

990
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 9: that's so much of what they're currently doing is pushing

991
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 9: everything to that extreme, trying to test all of these

992
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 9: more niche theories that you see people talking about in

993
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 9: the past, Like around twenty eleven, when Obama first signed

994
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 9: legislation with the autopen, you had a whole bunch of

995
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 9: libertarians complaining that this is unconstitutional because he wasn't physically

996
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 9: present when the document was being signed, and so you

997
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 9: have like think pieces on that at the time that

998
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 9: then kind of get memory hold, and now you're going

999
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 9: to see some of those justifications back again and actually

1000
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 9: try to test them out in court, especially if you

1001
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 9: have a Justice Department investigation, you have an Attorney General

1002
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 9: investigation of a cent an investigation, and a House investigation.

1003
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 9: If one of those can stumble onto or develop or

1004
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 9: invent some compelling argument. We will actually see versions of

1005
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 9: this complaint be tested in a way that we never

1006
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 9: have before, because it would be like disastrous to the

1007
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 9: functional aspect of this state. If you determine that all

1008
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 9: presidential documents signed via autopen are not ballid unless presents

1009
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 9: in the room, that would be a massive domino tipping

1010
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 9: over which you know, most reasonable people who work in government,

1011
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 9: like elder statesmen, are not going to want to do

1012
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 9: that because that sounds like a fucking nightmare, like legally speaking,

1013
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 9: and it would be like disastrous, like it would destroy

1014
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 9: some fundamental aspects of the government. But right now, destroying

1015
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 9: aspects of government is kind of the point. That's what

1016
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 9: we saw with Doge, That's what we saw during the

1017
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 9: first few months of the presidency, using this kind of

1018
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 9: tech startup thought process behind running a government. You have

1019
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 9: to break things first so that you can rebuild it

1020
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 9: in a way that suits you better. And if that

1021
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 9: means stripping away two hundred federal judges to put in

1022
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 9: two hundred of your own, that would have massive benefits

1023
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 9: for them. And I think that's part of why they're

1024
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 9: having this focus right now. Oh yeah, that's kind of

1025
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 9: all I have on that, So once you have some

1026
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 9: closing thoughts.

1027
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: No, I mean, of course this is the game as

1028
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: laid out in not just Project twenty twenty five, but

1029
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: what the right has been talking about my entire life. Like,

1030
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: none of this should be surprising if you've been paying attention.

1031
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 2: The only reason why some people are surprised is that

1032
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: there's folks in the democratic hierarchy who have been saying

1033
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 2: for years, this isn't really what conservatives want. This is

1034
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: just a fringe, right, there is no fringe anymore. They'll

1035
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: never actually do this. They can't do this. The system

1036
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: doesn't work that way. There's just been this belief that

1037
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: this can't happen, right, it can't happen, or that like

1038
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: if it did, obviously you know the cops will stop them,

1039
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: the FBI will stop them, the army will stop them.

1040
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 2: And there's a reason why they've went out of their

1041
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: way to gain control of all of those organizations before

1042
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 2: doing this. So yeah, I mean, you cannot. We can

1043
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 2: either pretend that someone's going to stop them and you

1044
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about it, or just accept that

1045
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 2: we are where we are and there may be some

1046
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: unprecedented things that need to be done. Yep, that's all

1047
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: I'll say. Legally, that's all I should say.

1048
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 9: That's the episode. Bye bye everyone, Okay, cool.

1049
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:13,919
Speaker 6: Hello, and welcome to the show.

1050
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 4: It's me James today, and I'm very fortunate to be

1051
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 4: joined by a friend of the show, Kyle Cassada.

1052
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,919
Speaker 6: How you doing, Carl, Oh, I'm doing great.

1053
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 12: And when I hear a friend of the show with

1054
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 12: any of you all are you James, It's a real

1055
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 12: honor to me. So I'm honored to be your friend

1056
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 12: and a friend of the show. So I'm glad to

1057
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 12: be here.

1058
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 6: No, thank you. We always appreciate you being here and

1059
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 6: everything you do within range. Kyle.

1060
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 4: We're not here to talk about gunstaf today Italy, which

1061
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 4: is nice in a way, because we're here to talk

1062
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 4: about something which is also very important right in terms

1063
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 4: of keeping people safe, and that is activism against like

1064
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 4: corporate destruction of our environment. We're here to talk about

1065
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 4: something called Project Blue specifically. Can you explain to listeners

1066
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 4: who are not familiar folks who maybe you haven't heard

1067
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 4: about it, what Project Blue was proposed to be.

1068
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's not dead either, we'll talk about that more.

1069
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 12: But the Project Blue was a was we'll see a

1070
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 12: two hundred and ninety acre data center project put that

1071
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 12: in scope, two hundred and ninety acres WHO data center

1072
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 12: south of Tucson through a company called Biel Infrastructure that

1073
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 12: through people's hard work, came to find out it was

1074
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 12: for Amazon. But a two hundred and ninety acre AI

1075
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 12: data center south of Tucson, Yeah, that is vast.

1076
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of a like, I can't think

1077
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 4: of a comparison for two hundred ninety eight is, but

1078
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 4: that that is a huge amount of like computing power, right,

1079
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 4: I guess.

1080
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 12: It's hard to fathom that kind of space when you

1081
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 12: think about it. Yeah, there are maps of what this

1082
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 12: proposed data center's footprint is.

1083
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 6: And if you take the.

1084
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 12: Rough rectangle of it and place it over Tucson proper,

1085
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 12: the city of Tucson, that's they propose it to be

1086
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 12: just south of it pretty much envelops and it consumes

1087
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 12: the entire downtown of Tucson in multiple neighborhoods. That's how

1088
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 12: big this is. And it's one data center.

1089
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, what was the data center is supposed to do?

1090
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 5: Like?

1091
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 4: What if people aren't familiar, right, what is the data

1092
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 4: center to do? What do they do with the big computer?

1093
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 12: Okay, So for people that aren't really into the tech

1094
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 12: sector of things, a data center is essentially think of

1095
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 12: something besides of a bigger than a mall that has

1096
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 12: nothing but giant computer data banks in it. So it's

1097
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 12: a giant place where you would think of your old

1098
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 12: mainframes in the old days. It's not mainframes anymore, but

1099
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 12: like it's racks and racks and racks of computing power

1100
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 12: and connectivity to the Internet for the purposes of whatever

1101
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 12: Amazon would want to do with this. So if you

1102
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 12: go to use Amazon's infrastructure or use their AI, that

1103
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 12: buzzphrase it now is everywhere the computers that do those

1104
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 12: things or those requests or decide what products they want

1105
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 12: to market to you through their algorithm. That's what these

1106
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 12: data centers do. So it's essentially an entire city.

1107
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 6: Of just machines. Yeah, but tech.

1108
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 12: Cropolis is an interesting way to put it. It's not

1109
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 12: a netcropo, it's a tech croppler.

1110
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:01,959
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1111
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 12: So imagine a few people maintaining an entire city of.

1112
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 4: Machines, right and actively participating in like undermining the value

1113
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 4: of labor for everyone else with this AI shit.

1114
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 12: Well, that's part of this project we're going to get

1115
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 12: into a minute is one of the things they like

1116
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 12: to propose is that it's going to bring jobs, but

1117
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 12: only at the.

1118
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 6: Beginning, and we'll talk about that more. Yeah.

1119
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, let's talk about like people in Tucson did

1120
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 4: not want this data center, right, Like there was a

1121
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 4: broad based and well organized opposition to it. So perhaps

1122
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 4: we should explain like why why? I mean, I guess

1123
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 4: people listen this podcast are inclined to think data center bad.

1124
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 4: But can you explain the impact that this would have

1125
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 4: had on the city and the turning area?

1126
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 6: Oh?

1127
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, absolutely, So it's very interesting to me to think about.

1128
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 12: So these data centers of this accord are if you

1129
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 12: if you're interested in this topic and start googling, you're

1130
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 12: going to find that this is, of course not the

1131
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 12: first large or mega data center that's been implemented across

1132
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 12: this country. Because anunder that are in Texas and they

1133
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 12: are belching large amounts of pollution and to the environment.

1134
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 12: Cities nearby get absolutely destroyed by it. Typically they're brought

1135
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 12: in through some sort of tax incentives by the local

1136
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 12: city council or local county, and so that's exactly what

1137
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 12: was happening here with Tucson. So the local city council

1138
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 12: was pretty friendly to the idea. They were talking to

1139
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 12: this beal infrastructure to bring in Project Blue, they were

1140
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 12: giving tax cuts, they were giving all these incentives to

1141
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 12: bring this gigantic, megalithic thing into just south of town.

1142
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 12: And part of the insidiousness of this is that this

1143
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 12: was going to go forward until someone noticed it.

1144
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was just.

1145
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 12: Going to happen all of a sudden one day, this

1146
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 12: thing is there, right, but it was noticed, And I

1147
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 12: don't honestly know exactly how it.

1148
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 6: Got noticed, but it got noticed.

1149
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 12: And one of the things I really find interesting, historically speaking,

1150
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 12: is how certain places and cultures resonate over time with

1151
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 12: historical events from the past. Tucson historically is an interesting

1152
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 12: place in terms of its environmental activism. There's a number

1153
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 12: of things that happened in Tucson. In the nineteen sixty

1154
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 12: There were groups that were actively fighting the spread of

1155
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 12: highways highway infrastructure, so they were anti freeway, and their

1156
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 12: reasoning and rationale was it that freeways were the arterial

1157
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 12: infrastructure that allowed for the destructive spread of tracklum developments.

1158
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 12: So the way to help one way is to prevent

1159
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 12: the destruction of the local environment and the spread of

1160
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 12: a city was to diminish its freeway footprint. And I

1161
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 12: think you can see this is true if you look

1162
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 12: at any big city now like Phoenix is essentially a

1163
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 12: hive city, and all of the growth comes because of freeways, right.

1164
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 4: Because people can get to work or whatever quickly, and

1165
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 4: so you get commuter suburbs.

1166
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,439
Speaker 12: One thing that's always was interesting when I was doing

1167
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 12: more work in infosec, when people talk this does make sense.

1168
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 12: By the way, this is going to sound off topic.

1169
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 12: I was talking to the information security architect for McDonald's

1170
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 12: and we were working with them on putting together a

1171
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 12: This is why this is interesting me as a data

1172
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 12: center thing I used to do a lot as work.

1173
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 12: They were talking about putting in a very secure and

1174
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 12: encrypted data center for the purposes of protecting their intellectual property.

1175
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 12: And I was talking to this guy. I was like,

1176
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 12: what is this like your recipes or what is it

1177
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 12: you it's a McDonald's protects Yeah, And this was wild. No,

1178
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 12: they don't care about the recipes. They were protecting their

1179
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 12: software that determines where they should buy the next piece

1180
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 12: of real estate to put a McDonald's. McDonald's actually a

1181
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 12: real estate company. And I have seen this in real

1182
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 12: time with my life because I've lived in a very

1183
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 12: remote part of the Arizona Desert the frontier for lack

1184
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 12: of a better term, of Arizona for a long time.

1185
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 12: And the first thing that popped up in this one

1186
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 12: little area in the middle of.

1187
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 6: Nowhere was a McDonald's.

1188
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 12: And now everywhere you see a McDonald's show up someplace

1189
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 12: that seems a little weird, give it a few years

1190
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 12: and it's suddenly the epicenter of a new tract one development.

1191
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 4: Oh it's like they have some unique algorithm to determine.

1192
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 12: They figure that out, and the McDonald's are the first

1193
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 12: thing they come't usually a gas station in a McDonald's,

1194
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 12: and it essentially just looks like, oh, this is the

1195
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 12: place to stop, take a leak and buy a burden.

1196
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 12: But no, they buy all the land around it, and

1197
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 12: then they start selling or leasing that to other businesses

1198
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 12: as the growth happens. That's a big part of how

1199
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 12: the McDonald's corporation makes its main money. Fascinating, Yeah, and

1200
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 12: so aligned with you put a freeway. When you see

1201
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 12: a freeway suddenly show up in the middle of nowhere.

1202
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 12: Someone has a goal to put a giant tract home

1203
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 12: development out there and sprawl that city a little more so. Anyways,

1204
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 12: going back to the original topic, these people in Tucson

1205
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 12: in the sixties were anti freeway and they actively changed

1206
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 12: the way Tucson grew. And I think it's one of

1207
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 12: the major reasons Tucson, if you've ever been to Tucson

1208
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 12: versus Phoenix, is a very different, culturally different vibe of Phoenix.

1209
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 13: One.

1210
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 12: It doesn't sprawl the same, yeah, and it still has

1211
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 12: stuff that isn't strip malls. It actually has locally owned businesses,

1212
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 12: It actually has some community resources, not all of its

1213
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 12: tract home and strip malls. And I think a lot

1214
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 12: of that is because of that freeway activism. Also, you

1215
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 12: look back into Tucson's past, love them or hate them,

1216
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 12: or somewhere in between. The somewhat infamous author Edward Abbey

1217
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 12: lived in Tucson and wrote The Monkey Wrench Gang and

1218
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 12: wrote a lot of environmental activism. He had a lot

1219
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 12: of views that were kind of deplorable, but when it

1220
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 12: came to climate and when it came to the environment,

1221
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 12: he was pretty on point. And his work spawned an

1222
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 12: organization called Earth First, which was one of the not

1223
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,919
Speaker 12: the first, but one of the most famous direct we're

1224
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 12: talking direct action climate activist or Clyde. You know, they

1225
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 12: were the ones that were destroying bulldozers, driving them off cliffs,

1226
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 12: some burning down Ski Shelle's like pretty wild stuff because

1227
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 12: they believed there was no retreat in defensive Mother Earth.

1228
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 12: He's a quote, but anyways, he was Tucson. Earth First

1229
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 12: birthed in Tucson, and then Earth First was a victim

1230
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 12: of the green scare and many of them are still

1231
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 12: in prison for their work. But they did have an effect.

1232
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 12: Whether you agree with that sort of direct activism or not,

1233
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 12: they had an effect. But here we are, it's been

1234
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,480
Speaker 12: many years after those big main activities and all that

1235
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 12: stuff became quiet. You don't really think of like direct

1236
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 12: action activism when it comes to the environment like you

1237
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 12: did back in the eighties and nineties. But when this

1238
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 12: data center popped up, groups started showing up in Tucson

1239
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 12: that really felt very earth first e I'm not talking

1240
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 12: direct action like firebombs, but their speech, the way they

1241
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 12: were organizing, coming to city council meetings and not just

1242
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 12: showing up to speak but disrupting the meetings, like causing

1243
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 12: a scene, and their work so far and I will

1244
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:33,839
Speaker 12: mention some of them later in this topic have actually

1245
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,840
Speaker 12: sort of forced the hand of this city council to

1246
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 12: deny the project. And so looking back, you're like, it's

1247
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 12: interesting to see the residents of things like those old

1248
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 12: freeway activists and Edward Abbey and Earth First it's still there.

1249
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 12: Tucson still has that, and you see that coming up

1250
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 12: now in regards to this data center project and other

1251
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 12: things that are starting to happen.

1252
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1253
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 4: I love Tucson and spent a lot of time in

1254
01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 4: Tucson for years and ye as years, and there is

1255
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 4: a feeling of like it's got this like DIY community

1256
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 4: feeling that you do not experience. And people think two

1257
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 4: sons in Phoenix, are they just smaller version of the same,

1258
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 4: But they're incredibly different.

1259
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 12: Oh no, yeah, it's hard to describe the difference. You

1260
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 12: have to go to both.

1261
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, oh, you could not go to Phoenix. You

1262
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,640
Speaker 4: can go almost anywhere else in the US and experience

1263
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,559
Speaker 4: the same thing as Phoenix, Right, it's incredibly generic as

1264
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 4: the city.

1265
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, the Phoenix is an old place too.

1266
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 12: Now as old as too soon, but the very core

1267
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,439
Speaker 12: the downtown of Phoenix still has something. However, Phoenix was

1268
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 12: never good about preserving any of its historicity or historical content,

1269
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 12: and so they never saw a building old enough or

1270
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 12: cool enough that they didn't care about bulldozing it and

1271
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 12: putting up a Walgreens. Yeah, and so Phoenix is as

1272
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 12: I forgot what documentary it was, but it was like

1273
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 12: what you just described so many American cities. You drive

1274
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 12: to it and it's just like this, like constantly looping

1275
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 12: revolving piece of film of Walgreen, McDonald's nail salon, super cuts, Chili's,

1276
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 12: rinse and repeat, and it just every ten miles. It's

1277
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 12: the same thing Dutch Brother's coffee. It just never ends.

1278
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 12: And Tucson is not yet like that. It still has

1279
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 12: still has a soul.

1280
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are special places in Phoenix who say, like

1281
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 4: Guadaloupe is cool. When my yagie friends live said this

1282
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 4: is nice, Sarah, I like getting there. Let's take a

1283
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 4: little break and talk about how Tucson and Posts is

1284
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 4: data center.

1285
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 12: So there are a number of groups that came togethers

1286
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 12: if you can't track everything all at once, because it's

1287
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 12: not possible to human being. But the one I've been

1288
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 12: keeping eye on and communicating with is called No Desert

1289
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 12: Data Center. They have a presence on the web. They're

1290
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 12: all over social media Facebook, Instagram, and for me at least,

1291
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 12: And this is not to exclude anyone. If if you're

1292
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 12: one of the primary people or groups that we're working

1293
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 12: against this and you heard this, please do not feel

1294
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 12: like I'm excluding you. This is just the group that

1295
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 12: I landed up connecting with and following. So but they

1296
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 12: are also doing a good job of aggregating others too.

1297
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 12: So almost all of their posts have like a bunch

1298
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 12: of other groups tagged in it. So if you were

1299
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 12: to look up the No Desert Data Center folks, you're

1300
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 12: going to find a.

1301
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 6: Lot of them.

1302
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 12: But they had some amazing artwork.

1303
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 6: You know.

1304
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 12: One of the things that I think is really important

1305
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 12: in activism is getting the attention of the local community.

1306
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:18,599
Speaker 6: Artwork will do that.

1307
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 12: So if they're this incredible poster that's like says no

1308
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 12: drop for data and it's a water drop with a

1309
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 12: rattlesnake and havalina and a solaro and they had a

1310
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:32,440
Speaker 12: rattlesnake wrapped around a rain drop, Like really good stuff.

1311
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 6: That catches your eye.

1312
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 12: So they were doing that, but they were also getting

1313
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 12: people together. They were having meetings, planning sessions before city

1314
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 12: council meetings, getting people together, doing the artwork there, rallying

1315
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 12: the troops, for lack of a better term, building morale.

1316
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 12: You don't have activism without morale. And then they were

1317
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 12: showing up and showing up in numbers. There's videos on

1318
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 12: Instagram on their feet alone, where one of these city

1319
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 12: council meetings had over one thousand twosonians in it with

1320
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 12: and posters. And they weren't just sitting there quietly waiting

1321
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 12: for their thirty seconds to speak. They were disruptive, they

1322
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 12: were loud, and they were not going to not be heard.

1323
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 12: So that type of activism in this instance very clearly

1324
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:15,719
Speaker 12: is the reason that this happened. Because if you read

1325
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 12: the writings of a number of the city council members,

1326
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 12: they were very sympathetic to the data center. One of

1327
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 12: them was talking about like, this is the wrong thing

1328
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 12: to do. If we block the data center, they're just

1329
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 12: going to build it anyway, and it's better for us

1330
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 12: to be involved because then we can help tune it

1331
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 12: to be better for the community. No no, no, no, no,

1332
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 12: you're just whitewashing a horrible thing. And so this group

1333
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 12: and other groups called them out on that immediately. Nice,

1334
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 12: So like, no, that's not it. So I think I'm

1335
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 12: answering your question. But it groups like this, Yeah, throwing

1336
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,680
Speaker 12: up in large numbers, being loud, not only online but

1337
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 12: in person.

1338
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 6: That forced their hand. That's craz show. Yeah.

1339
01:12:57,160 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's people actually being willing to get out of

1340
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 4: the tweets into the streets, so to speak, to like

1341
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 4: actually show up in this case of these meetings. But

1342
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 4: it doesn't have to just be meetings, right, it could

1343
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 4: be anywhere. I guess Luis should just talk about like Tucson.

1344
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 4: It's from an audhum word. It means dark corner, but

1345
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 4: it is not a cool place. It is cool in

1346
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 4: the Phoenix. Actually, let's hot that, like this data center

1347
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 4: would have consumed a massive amount of energy I presumed,

1348
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 4: like just keeping the computers cooled, right, and a massive

1349
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 4: amount of water.

1350
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 6: To do that.

1351
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:28,919
Speaker 12: Absolutely, So when you start talking about heat, for example,

1352
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 12: I think it's worth I know we don't have infinite

1353
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 12: time here on this podcast, but it's worth noting for

1354
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 12: people that are not familiar with the concept of heat islands.

1355
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1356
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 12: Heat islands are where you build so much metropolitan infrastructure,

1357
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 12: including asphalt and concrete, with no botboards, heat or cooling.

1358
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 12: You really don't like Phoenix was built without thinking about that.

1359
01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:51,720
Speaker 12: They're thinking about it now, but it wasn't built thinking

1360
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 12: about it when it sprawled, and it was continually was sprawl. Yeah,

1361
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 12: Phoenix was always a little harder than TuS just because

1362
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 12: of like you know, gigra apphical reasons. But now Phoenix

1363
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 12: is measurably and demonstrably hotter because it never cools off.

1364
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 6: And that's a heat island.

1365
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 12: So what happens is during the day, all of that

1366
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 12: I'll create, all that asphalt, all those things heat up,

1367
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 12: and it'll get to at moments like just this last week,

1368
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 12: one hundred and eighteen, one hundred and twenty degree in

1369
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 12: the middle of the day. But because the heat island

1370
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:24,720
Speaker 12: hasn't been architected well and has no green space to

1371
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,640
Speaker 12: deal with this, at night, it's still one hundred and

1372
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 12: five Jesus See, it never gets below one hundred and

1373
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,680
Speaker 12: So the problem with heat, like obviously one hundred and

1374
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 12: twenty degrees can kill you. But the problem with the

1375
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 12: heat is that as you never get a chance to

1376
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 12: cool off. Heat over time is more dangerous to human

1377
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 12: to all living organisms. If you get a break, that's

1378
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 12: what keeps you alive. So it can be one hundred

1379
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 12: and twenty during the day, but if it's seventy five

1380
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 12: at night, that gives you a moment to heal and

1381
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 12: recuperate for the next day's heat. Phoenix is one of

1382
01:14:58,320 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 12: not the worst, believe it or not, but one of

1383
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 12: the worst versions of a heat island, and they are

1384
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 12: actively working to make that better. But it's kind of

1385
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 12: hard to undo what's been done. Yeah, Tucson, once again,

1386
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 12: because the sprawl is diminished by activism of the past,

1387
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 12: did not become the heat island Phoenix does. So while

1388
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 12: it might be one hundred and thirteen during the day,

1389
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 12: it might get down to eighty at night. Yeah, and

1390
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 12: that really is a big difference for not only sustainability,

1391
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 12: but for the health and safety of everyone that lives there.

1392
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 12: One of the things that I find is interesting is

1393
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 12: the justification for these data centers is because Arizona is

1394
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 12: seen as a place that doesn't have significant natural disaster risk.

1395
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,600
Speaker 12: But one of the things that's being left out of

1396
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 12: the conversation I don't know why this is the case.

1397
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 12: Is that heat and heat islands are a natural disaster.

1398
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they kill people.

1399
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 12: If the power were to go out in Phoenix at

1400
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 12: the wrong time of year, the death toll is hard

1401
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 12: to fathom.

1402
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without air conditioning, it's unsurvivable in those

1403
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 6: temperatures fifty for older people, people medically conditioned to what

1404
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:03,559
Speaker 6: have you.

1405
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 12: Anyone at risk, the unhoused is one example, of course,

1406
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 12: which they don't even do proper metrics and measuring of

1407
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 12: because our society doesn't care like it should. However, outside

1408
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 12: of that, you said people that are at risk, anyone

1409
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 12: that has any sort of illness, the young, the elderly,

1410
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 12: anyone like that. They have to live in their air

1411
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 12: conditioned spaceship to survive.

1412
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 14: Yeah.

1413
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it would have taken it, like you say,

1414
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 4: a huge amount of cooling just to keep this data center.

1415
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 12: Well, that's where this gets so fascinating when they start

1416
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 12: proposing these because like, oh, let's be realistic, right, Arizona

1417
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 12: is probably low risk for a dramatic earthquake or a hurricane.

1418
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 6: That's fair.

1419
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 12: Yeah, However, it is not a low risk for a

1420
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 12: heat casualty event, which is going on every year and

1421
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 12: getting worse, yeah, with climate change. And so these data centers,

1422
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 12: the one in twoson that was proposed, would have consumed

1423
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 12: and the numbers fluctuate, and the course the numbers you

1424
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,720
Speaker 12: get from the Amazon crew versus others will be a

1425
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 12: little different. But as best as I can tell, the

1426
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 12: power consumption of this one data center was essentially the

1427
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 12: equivalent of that of metropolitan Tucson. Pieces yeah, so you

1428
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 12: double the power load of the entire city for this

1429
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 12: data center. And the cooling system there's two different ways

1430
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,439
Speaker 12: to cool there's quote unquote air cooled and water cooled.

1431
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 12: They can tell you whatever they want. The reality is

1432
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 12: they're probably not going to be affected with air cooled

1433
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 12: in this environment, so it's going to be water cooled.

1434
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 12: And the data on that also seems to be the

1435
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 12: water consumption of this was not only equal, maybe worse

1436
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 12: than that of Tucson itself. Looking at this site right now,

1437
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 12: water positivity claim for the initial two years, but the

1438
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 12: initial estimate was six hundred and twenty two million gallons. Whoa, yeah, yeah,

1439
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 12: with a seven hundred milliwat expected demand, it's crazy. And

1440
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 12: so what happens is not only does the city council

1441
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 12: just see dollar signs in their eyes? Local electrical infrastructure

1442
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,679
Speaker 12: TEP the two soon electrical or other data center places

1443
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:07,799
Speaker 12: where data centers are located suddenly do things like stop

1444
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 12: worrying about any form of arbon positivity, or they get

1445
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 12: rid of all their carbon goals so that they can

1446
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 12: build and work with people like this, Because if you

1447
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,640
Speaker 12: double the power consumption of a region overnight for a

1448
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 12: data center, yeah, think of the waste that you're going

1449
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 12: to produce to do that, right, Yeah, And suddenly how

1450
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:28,320
Speaker 12: do you produce that power. You're not going to have

1451
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 12: a nuclear plant pop up tomorrow, so you're going to

1452
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,640
Speaker 12: do other things like burn more coal. Yeah, and so

1453
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 12: your carbon and carbon positivity or attempt to move away

1454
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,639
Speaker 12: from carbon waste, they just throw that out the door

1455
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 12: so they can have these lucrative, juicy contracts with these

1456
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 12: data centers.

1457
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that is I mean, it's just on the

1458
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 4: face of it. When I heard of it, I was

1459
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 4: just like, why are they doing this in the one

1460
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,840
Speaker 4: of the hottest places you know, in the region. But

1461
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:58,719
Speaker 4: I guess yeah, they don't see heat as a threat.

1462
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:01,439
Speaker 4: Having spent a lot of time in the desert there

1463
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:03,919
Speaker 4: I can tell you it is a threat to human life.

1464
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 4: So as of last week, right, the council has refused

1465
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 4: it permission to be built in Tucson.

1466
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 12: Due to intense external pressure. Yeah, they did vote against it.

1467
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:19,599
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, so that's like it's a victory. I guess

1468
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 4: it's a victory in a battle, but it's not the

1469
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 4: end of the war.

1470
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 6: Oh No.

1471
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 12: That's the problem with all this is that these companies

1472
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 12: and these folks will never stop.

1473
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 6: So I just saw an.

1474
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:34,479
Speaker 12: Article in fact that two days ago, yes, this project

1475
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:36,759
Speaker 12: was voted down. However they're coming back with just another

1476
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 12: proposal to do it a slightly different way. And so

1477
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 12: each time they just reiterate and change it. It's just

1478
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 12: a new battle, right, so they will change the words

1479
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:49,719
Speaker 12: however they want to make it sound until these people

1480
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 12: will vote yes for it. So like Nikki Lee, which

1481
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 12: is the ward for a councilwoman, was the one that

1482
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 12: was arguing against essentially saying that we should approve the

1483
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 12: projects so we can have better control of it, and

1484
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 12: the activists said against that. But it's just they're just

1485
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 12: going to keep changing the tune until the activists get

1486
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:13,720
Speaker 12: essentially worn out. On top of that, this is not

1487
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,679
Speaker 12: the only data center being proposed in Arizona. There are

1488
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,639
Speaker 12: currently three of them under proposal. So there's this one

1489
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 12: in Tucson and two of them in Panall County. The

1490
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 12: one in Panall County starts off at the small size

1491
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,680
Speaker 12: of three hundred acres, but it's proposed to go to

1492
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 12: three thousand acres. Jesus, They want to build a ultimately

1493
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 12: a three thousand acre data center that sprawls essentially from

1494
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 12: southern Phoenix across the entire north south breath of Pennall County,

1495
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 12: on the west side of the I ten southwest of Elois,

1496
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 12: extending through significant what are indigenous or what were indigenous lands,

1497
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 12: destroying whatever cultural remains are there. But imagine if this

1498
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 12: two hundred and ninety acre data center was going to

1499
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 12: equal the power consumption and water consumption of Tucson. What

1500
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 12: is a three thousand acre data center going to do.

1501
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, that's insane. That's just us.

1502
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:14,919
Speaker 12: And that one is currently still in its early phases.

1503
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 12: That one is called the Laosa Project. The CEO of

1504
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:22,600
Speaker 12: this company is named cool Deep Verma. Okay, Verma Vrma,

1505
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 12: I'm not afectioner, that's the right pronunciation. But in another

1506
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 12: example of tech bro narcissism. He's calling this Verma Land,

1507
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 12: and his company is called Verma Land. It's like the

1508
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 12: most awful version of Disneyland. We're not even bringing you rides.

1509
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 12: We're just gonna drink your water belt heat into the sky,

1510
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 12: destroy your desert so you can have a disturbing psychological

1511
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 12: parasocial relationship with an ai avatar. And we're gonna do

1512
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 12: it at your expense. Verma Land, isn't that lovely?

1513
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:50,719
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1514
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 4: Man, I've seen that's weird. They already owned a lot

1515
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 4: of land of the iten I think.

1516
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 6: Mm hmm.

1517
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,719
Speaker 12: Yeah, No, they've been They've been purchasing land throughout Arizona

1518
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 12: and sitting on it. But this is where the three

1519
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 12: thousand acres come from. Is Verma Land.

1520
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 4: Jesus, Yeah, that is this doesn't mind boggling leave vast

1521
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 4: data center. So I guess like this is one you know,

1522
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 4: as you say, this will either move someone else. So

1523
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,880
Speaker 4: there will be other struggles right like the For instance,

1524
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 4: the United States is waving many of the waivers, including

1525
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:34,679
Speaker 4: ones that protect indigenous human remains, to build its border

1526
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,480
Speaker 4: infrastructure right now. Actually a lot of the border infrastructure

1527
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 4: is coming out of the U of a tech park

1528
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:41,719
Speaker 4: in Tucson. Rights, that's where a lot of these companies

1529
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 4: have the headquarters, right, the people who make the border

1530
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:49,360
Speaker 4: surveillance infrastructure. What can we learn from this struggle in Tuson.

1531
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 4: If we're not in Tucson, we might not even be

1532
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 4: in the US. Because there are some unique things about Tuson, Right,

1533
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 4: It has this history of activism, and it's always been

1534
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:00,800
Speaker 4: I don't want to use weird in a Rogatree way,

1535
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,759
Speaker 4: but it hasn't conformed to like the neo liberal capital

1536
01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 4: model of a city. But I don't think it's unique.

1537
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 4: There were things I think that anyone can take from

1538
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 4: this victory and the continued opposition, Right, So what can

1539
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 4: we learn from it?

1540
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, No, I think that that's a fair way

1541
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 12: to put it in. And I think that speaking of

1542
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 12: like the reverberance of the history of the area and

1543
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:22,680
Speaker 12: the types of movements that came out of there, as

1544
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,720
Speaker 12: we mentioned already earlier, make Tucson unique in regards to

1545
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 12: it being at least culturally more ready than someplace to

1546
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:34,560
Speaker 12: have this struggle. However, if they do succeed and completely

1547
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 12: stop Project Blue and the two hundred and ninety acre

1548
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,600
Speaker 12: data center near Tucson has stopped. It's not going to

1549
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 12: stop there. We see three more data centers being proposed

1550
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:48,559
Speaker 12: in Arizona proper, the three thousand acre dream site that

1551
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,639
Speaker 12: I've mentioned already is they're just going to keep changing

1552
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 12: and moving and trying to do it somewhere else. The

1553
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 12: reality of this is that when we look back at

1554
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 12: the workers' rights movement right there was the IWW the

1555
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 12: Industrial Workers of the World. The thing is Tucson winning

1556
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 12: one fight against this data center only is a microcosm

1557
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 12: of the greater macrocosm of the consumption of these tech

1558
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:18,320
Speaker 12: bros and tech industry people who do not care about

1559
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:20,519
Speaker 12: the climate, do not care about you, do not care

1560
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 12: about the community, do not care about the water they consume,

1561
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 12: and they will destroy everything in their path for profit.

1562
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 12: We know that that is what this form of data

1563
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 12: capitalism is. And so Tucson's lesson is everyone has to

1564
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 12: be this And I agree with you that Tucson isn't

1565
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 12: unique in that there are other places that will have

1566
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 12: the fight, But this is truthfully everyone's fight, because the

1567
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 12: amount of pollution that would be belched out of this

1568
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 12: data center or the ones being proposed in Arizona affects everyone.

1569
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 12: The reality of climate change is, in my opinion, indisputable.

1570
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 12: We're seeing it every year. It's worse, and it is

1571
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 12: human induced or a large degree, unlike some people want

1572
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 12: to deny. Yeah, and having your AI avatar on the

1573
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 12: Internet is not in the interests of humanity as a whole.

1574
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 12: So we have to work on this on a much

1575
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 12: large It's a global issue.

1576
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it is not.

1577
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 12: It is not a local issue, That's what I'm trying

1578
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:19,880
Speaker 12: to say. And these data companies like Amazon, like Google,

1579
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:22,439
Speaker 12: like Apple, although this isn't Apple in this instance, but

1580
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:24,640
Speaker 12: all of them. Yeah, they have the power, if not

1581
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:26,759
Speaker 12: more of power than that of a nation state.

1582
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:28,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Like I think if my friend's in the

1583
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 4: Marshall Islands, right, this small nation state, but one nonetheless, right,

1584
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 4: they will have maybe thirty or forty years before the

1585
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 4: islands around inhabitable due to the rise of the sea level.

1586
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 4: And like their response has been a to double down

1587
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 4: on community and supporting each other.

1588
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 6: Right.

1589
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:46,719
Speaker 4: They also did things like if you go in between

1590
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:48,640
Speaker 4: the islands on an Atoll and the Marshal Islands, den

1591
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 4: really used like a Higgins boat, a landing craft from

1592
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 4: World War Two, Right, But they also have these solar

1593
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:58,200
Speaker 4: power canoes now to reduce their footprint. They're a tiny,

1594
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 4: tiny fraction, I know, a single percent of the word

1595
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 4: CO two footprint. And so what happens in Tucson will

1596
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:09,040
Speaker 4: affect them, right, and what they do cannot alone help

1597
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:12,200
Speaker 4: them survive, right, And they've appealed to the world's solidarity,

1598
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 4: made a whole podcast about this, and the world has

1599
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 4: not shown up for them. Right, So, like I think people,

1600
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 4: you're right, like, this is a global struggle. It's one

1601
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 4: that you know. It doesn't stop in Tuson, doesn't stop

1602
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 4: in Eloy, doesn't stop in Phoenix, like it stops when

1603
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 4: these data centers, which are antithetical to our survival of

1604
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 4: a species, stop being built for shit that we don't need.

1605
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:36,600
Speaker 12: This is touching on a point that always that frustrates

1606
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 12: me frequently when we talk to people who are at

1607
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:41,679
Speaker 12: least on the right side minded in terms of being

1608
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 12: concerned about our future, and they do the thing right,

1609
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 12: they'll do their recycling, or they'll put up a solar

1610
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 12: panel and all those things. Sure, but and this isn't

1611
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:53,600
Speaker 12: to say that the individuals shouldn't do the ethical and

1612
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 12: moral thing that they can do when they can do it. Absolutely.

1613
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 12: Can you recycle, sure, do it. Can you put up

1614
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:01,960
Speaker 12: a solar panel? Absolutely do that. But the real truth

1615
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 12: and reality of climate change and the destruction of our

1616
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 12: environment and this planet that we all inhabit, it's not

1617
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,280
Speaker 12: the individual, it's the corporations is at a nation state

1618
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:13,799
Speaker 12: level and a corporate level that is going to destroy

1619
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 12: our small Biosphere one. Ironically, biosphere is we'll talk about

1620
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,560
Speaker 12: the experiment is near Tucson. Actually Biosphere two was a

1621
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 12: little experiment that was a self contained nineteen eighties thing

1622
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 12: where these scientists essentially encapsulated themselves in air tight bubbles

1623
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 12: to see if they could live with the CO two

1624
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:35,360
Speaker 12: production that they were creating within it. The truth was

1625
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 12: they couldn't. The ocean turned to algae and they would

1626
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 12: have died. So they learned Biosphere two wasn't going to work.

1627
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 12: But we have bios for one, and the individual doing

1628
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 12: the solar panels or recycling. That's a good thing, and

1629
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:49,680
Speaker 12: that's moral, but that's great, it's something we should do

1630
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 12: if we can. But it's us we have to act

1631
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 12: against the truly destructive forces, and it's the corporations and

1632
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 12: the nation states that are belching destruction into our planet,

1633
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 12: not the individual recycling or not recycling as a soda can.

1634
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, And I think it's one of the greatest

1635
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 4: like frauds editor cannots, these corporations amants to put off,

1636
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 4: is to have people attribute blame for climate change to

1637
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 4: the person not recycling that can, not the corporation.

1638
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 12: Yeah. You know, the political spectrum is always challenging, and

1639
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 12: I'm not trying to like point at any one thing,

1640
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 12: but this is where I think we all have our failings, right,

1641
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:31,480
Speaker 12: and I think this is where like progressive space fails often.

1642
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 6: Which is you'll see tone.

1643
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:35,919
Speaker 12: Policing, and you'll see recycling, and you'll see solar panels.

1644
01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,760
Speaker 12: But the reality is that isn't really doing shit. It

1645
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 12: just isn't in the grand scheme of the numbers. It

1646
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,840
Speaker 12: isn't it that data center. Stopping that data center is

1647
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 12: an actual victory. That's something that needs to happen. Yeah,

1648
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 12: and those things need to stop. That kind of stuff

1649
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 12: across the board, not just in Tucson, not just in Arizona,

1650
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,360
Speaker 12: but everywhere needs to be a thing where everyone comes

1651
01:28:55,400 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 12: together and realizes that these people are consuming the very

1652
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 12: planet that we need to live on. You see Elon

1653
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:06,640
Speaker 12: Musk talking about going to Mars. We got with the

1654
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 12: human race has to go to Mars because a meteor

1655
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 12: might hit the Earth. No, your company is what hit

1656
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 12: the earth, my friend, You're the one destroying the Earth,

1657
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:17,240
Speaker 12: not that meteor.

1658
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:19,360
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, it's not external.

1659
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 4: And they like the you know, it's it's coming from within, right,

1660
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 4: And it is if you say, like it did the

1661
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 4: species level threat to us?

1662
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:28,479
Speaker 12: The calls literally coming from inside the house.

1663
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But we should

1664
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,439
Speaker 4: also celebrate these victories and lemp in them. Right, So

1665
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:38,759
Speaker 4: if people are interested in learning more about the struggling

1666
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 4: in Tucson, perhaps they're they're living in Phoenix and they're

1667
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 4: just now learning about vermaaland right or these other AI projects,

1668
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,400
Speaker 4: Like why can they find out more about this? How

1669
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:48,560
Speaker 4: can they involve themselves?

1670
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, so I want to first of all, I don't

1671
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 12: I hope that I didn't come across as saying like

1672
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:53,960
Speaker 12: this is hopeless.

1673
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:54,680
Speaker 6: I don't think it is.

1674
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 12: Like when you see the actions of like what made

1675
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,680
Speaker 12: two soon unique now and we saw the actions of

1676
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:01,679
Speaker 12: what Earth the Thirst was able to achieve through their

1677
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,599
Speaker 12: decades of work which they did achieve a lot. It

1678
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 12: resonates still to this day. The planet is a better

1679
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 12: place because those people paid a price to do what

1680
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:12,840
Speaker 12: they did. And that's just something that never stops, is

1681
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:15,599
Speaker 12: what it boils down to. Yeah, these companies, these people

1682
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 12: will never stop trying to destroy our home for their profit.

1683
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 6: So that's the point I was trying to make.

1684
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 12: And so this was a success and we should celebrate that.

1685
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:26,720
Speaker 12: Like you said, the one I want to reference is

1686
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 12: No Desert Datacenter dot Com. Again, I want to very

1687
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 12: much point out they are not the only ones. Many

1688
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 12: people came together. They're the one I have really been

1689
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:38,560
Speaker 12: paying attention to. If you go to No Desert Datacenter

1690
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,440
Speaker 12: dot com, they have links to all their socials Instagram,

1691
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 12: Blue Sky, Facebook, and if you go to any of those,

1692
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 12: their Instagram is particularly active and has some great motivational

1693
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 12: art on it. I will tell you that they will

1694
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 12: also link you to a number of other.

1695
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:53,679
Speaker 6: Organizations at the same time.

1696
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, so if you're interested in this particular issue of

1697
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 12: these data centers in Arizona, I would reference you to that.

1698
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 12: You can go to their link tree, which is also

1699
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 12: linked from their Instagram and that'll connect you to a

1700
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,599
Speaker 12: number of other organizations that are working on this right

1701
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 12: now and to their merit the Project Blue. They succeeded

1702
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 12: at least delaying Project Blue, hopefully stopping it. Yeah, and

1703
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 12: the next post they put up was about the data

1704
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 12: center in Eloy, so they understand that this is broader

1705
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:22,599
Speaker 12: in scope than just one desert.

1706
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:23,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, data center. That's great.

1707
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's like it was in the movie There Will

1708
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 12: be Blood if you ever saw that. There's an amazing line.

1709
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:32,840
Speaker 12: Of course, I drink your milkshake if you drink the

1710
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:36,040
Speaker 12: water south of Tucson or don't. Yeah, but then put

1711
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:38,360
Speaker 12: a data center just north of Tucson. It doesn't matter.

1712
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 12: It's the same watershed.

1713
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:41,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, right, it's the same same problem.

1714
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 12: So no desert datacenter dot com And that'll get you

1715
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 12: to a bunch of different links and a bunch of

1716
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 12: updates about what's going on with this.

1717
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 4: Perfect and god, if people want to follow your weg

1718
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 4: I mean, you have a presence on the internet.

1719
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 6: Where can people find you?

1720
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1721
01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, yeah, my project is not necessarily about the desert

1722
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:01,479
Speaker 12: data center, but I'm definitely obviously very sympathetic and part

1723
01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 12: of that too, just not on my project. I'm in

1724
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 12: Range TV, So if you want to find all my work,

1725
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 12: you can find it by just easily going to Enrange

1726
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 12: dot tv and there's a link on there called watch

1727
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:13,520
Speaker 12: and that'll get you to all my socials. I distribute

1728
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:17,559
Speaker 12: my video content. Decentralized YouTube is the is the line

1729
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 12: in the room must be realistic. But I have my

1730
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:22,240
Speaker 12: content in multiple different places. The easiest way to find

1731
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 12: all of them is range dot tv and you'll find my.

1732
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:27,600
Speaker 6: Socials there too, which is Facebook and Blue Sky and

1733
01:32:27,640 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 6: all that.

1734
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 12: And of course my topic is more about firearms history

1735
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:33,960
Speaker 12: and civil rights and how they intersect. But if our

1736
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 12: ability to breathe and drink water isn't human rights, I

1737
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 12: don't know what it is.

1738
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:39,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think that's how we should see these things.

1739
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time, Kyle. That was great, James,

1740
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 4: thank you for having me.

1741
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:44,640
Speaker 12: I appreciate it's always a real treat to be on

1742
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:46,600
Speaker 12: any of the shows here, and I love all the

1743
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,519
Speaker 12: work you all are doing, and together hopefully we can

1744
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 12: I don't know how to put it, stop these corporate

1745
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 12: maggots from eating our not yet corpse of an earth.

1746
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1747
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 4: Then I think it's like I guess I'll finish up

1748
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:00,600
Speaker 4: by saying like, it doesn't matter if we confronting fascism.

1749
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 6: It doesn't matter if we're confronting this destruction of our planet. Right.

1750
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,439
Speaker 4: The only way through this is together, and the only

1751
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,800
Speaker 4: way that we defeat this is through building stronger communities

1752
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,080
Speaker 4: to show up for one another. And that's something that

1753
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 4: you have documented extensively in the historical parts of your channel.

1754
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:18,679
Speaker 4: So I think there is a connection that I hope

1755
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:19,639
Speaker 4: people can see there.

1756
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,040
Speaker 12: Yeah, community defense is also protecting our planets so we

1757
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 12: can live on it. Yeah, I agree with that, and

1758
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 12: we have to do that together. Thousands of people showing

1759
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 12: up to city council meeting at Tucson is a glimmer

1760
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 12: of light in this moment, and hopefully we can see

1761
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 12: more of them.

1762
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:35,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, thanks Cap.

1763
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 8: Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things

1764
01:33:57,080 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 8: falling apart this week featuring an entire three sentences about

1765
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 8: putting it back together again. I am your host, Bio Wung,

1766
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 8: and today we are gathered here to talk about tariffs.

1767
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 8: Oh boy, it has been a massive two weeks of

1768
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:20,320
Speaker 8: tariff news, the most important aspect of which has been

1769
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:24,600
Speaker 8: finally getting a resolution to what was going on with

1770
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 8: the Liberation Day turf tariffs that Trump tried to impose

1771
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:30,040
Speaker 8: at the beginning of his time in office. On July

1772
01:34:30,160 --> 01:34:33,599
Speaker 8: thirty first, we finally actually found out what those terrorists

1773
01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 8: are going to look like, and what those terrorists are

1774
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 8: going to look like is PRISTI ann Effectively, what happened

1775
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:45,799
Speaker 8: is that roughly, if the US runs a trade deficit

1776
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,880
Speaker 8: with you, you get a fifteen percent tariff, and you

1777
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 8: get a ten percent tariff if we run a trade

1778
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:55,080
Speaker 8: surplus with you. Now there's a bunch of other individual rates.

1779
01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:57,640
Speaker 8: We'll get to some of them in a second, but

1780
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:02,839
Speaker 8: it's worth emphasizing that this this doesn't make any sense.

1781
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 8: So okay, before we get into the structural effects of this,

1782
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,879
Speaker 8: I want to sort of look at what the nominal

1783
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 8: stated justification for imposing these tariffs are and how they're

1784
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,840
Speaker 8: at odds with each other. And this is the point

1785
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 8: where we're turned to later. Part of the justification for

1786
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:22,839
Speaker 8: the tariffs is that, Okay, they're trying to use tariffs

1787
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 8: to replace the income tax. That's nonsense, it's gibberish. You

1788
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 8: literally cannot raise enough money through tariffs to replace the

1789
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 8: income tax. But okay, that's the thing that they want

1790
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:37,479
Speaker 8: to do. The other nominal justification, and this is what's

1791
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 8: being used in negotiations and is the thing that is

1792
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 8: causing individual tariff rates to randomly sort of be jacked up.

1793
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 8: Is that Trump is pissed off that the US runs

1794
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:53,200
Speaker 8: trade deficits with countries. And again, like this is basically nonsense.

1795
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 8: The US pays for things in its own currency. We

1796
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 8: don't actually need other places currency. It doesn't matter if

1797
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:02,639
Speaker 8: you run trade deficits. I really hate that Rand Paul

1798
01:36:03,080 --> 01:36:05,599
Speaker 8: is right when he said I run a trade deficit

1799
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 8: with my grocery store. But like, that's how the American

1800
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 8: Empire is supposed to work. These people do not care

1801
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 8: that this is how the American Empire is supposed to work.

1802
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 8: They have been handed the most sophisticated imperial machinery that

1803
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:20,040
Speaker 8: has ever existed in the entirety of human history, and

1804
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,800
Speaker 8: they see numbers on a chart which says we pay

1805
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 8: them more money than we're getting and they're pissed about it.

1806
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 8: But again, okay, if that's a state of justification, right,

1807
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 8: then why are you imposing a terra fun countries? We

1808
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:35,719
Speaker 8: have a trade ser plus two that doesn't make any sense,

1809
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 8: and the difference between them is only five percent, So

1810
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:42,040
Speaker 8: what are we doing here? It's nonsense, like our trade

1811
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 8: policy is being run by people who don't understand how

1812
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 8: any of this works and are operating off of, you know,

1813
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:53,040
Speaker 8: effectively just pure anger and rage. So I'm going to

1814
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 8: talk about a few of the really really high rates.

1815
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:58,040
Speaker 8: We're not going to focus on much on the thirty

1816
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 8: percent South Africa, for example, but oh boy, so Syria

1817
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:06,960
Speaker 8: is at forty one percent, which is absolutely fucking hideous.

1818
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:11,200
Speaker 8: Syria is a country that I don't know anyone who

1819
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,040
Speaker 8: listens to this show is aware of the extent to

1820
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 8: which Syria has been devastated by the civil war, and

1821
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:21,320
Speaker 8: this is an incredible blow to their economy. Laus and

1822
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:25,080
Speaker 8: Me and Mar are also being terriffed at forty percent.

1823
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:29,000
Speaker 8: And we promised in the executive disorder to explain how

1824
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:33,240
Speaker 8: Trump recognizing the junta so Joe Biden had refused to

1825
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:37,599
Speaker 8: recognize me and Mar's like military coup government. As long

1826
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 8: time listeners of this show are aware, there is a

1827
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:42,840
Speaker 8: military coup in in memr There is a large gale

1828
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:46,479
Speaker 8: revolutionary process attempting to overthrow this government. My co host

1829
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 8: James Stout and Robert Evans have done a lot of

1830
01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 8: very good reporting on this that you can go find.

1831
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,600
Speaker 8: You should find is some of the best journalism that

1832
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:58,400
Speaker 8: I've ever encountered. But the US's official position has been

1833
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:00,760
Speaker 8: that we don't recognize the coup government because it is,

1834
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:05,439
Speaker 8: and this is true, a coup government. But Trump just

1835
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:07,719
Speaker 8: sent the junta a letter of that says you're tariff

1836
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:09,200
Speaker 8: to forty percent. And the thing about this is the

1837
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:12,240
Speaker 8: junta was like, oh shit, hell yeah, Like that means

1838
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:14,800
Speaker 8: you recognize us, right, because you're sending us official fucking

1839
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 8: notices of shit. So you're recognizing US as the legitimate

1840
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:20,200
Speaker 8: government of me and mar And so the junta is

1841
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:23,880
Speaker 8: like thrilled by this. There's some evidence of like the

1842
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:27,000
Speaker 8: US lifting sanctions on them after. It's kind of messy,

1843
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 8: but yeah, great. Somehow, in the attempts to sort of

1844
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:35,360
Speaker 8: just like squeeze every last drop out of all of

1845
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:39,600
Speaker 8: these countries, we have recognized an incredibly brutal military dictatorship.

1846
01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:43,840
Speaker 8: Hate that back to the more direct tariff stuff. The

1847
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:46,479
Speaker 8: tariff's on Laos is also going to be devastating for

1848
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 8: Lahosian economy, which is a lot of the economies in

1849
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:55,599
Speaker 8: Southeast Asia are pretty heavily export driven, and it's one

1850
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:58,800
Speaker 8: of the places where a lot of textiles manufacturing takes place.

1851
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:02,320
Speaker 8: After the sort of increase in labor prices and increase

1852
01:39:02,360 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 8: in resistance from the labor movement in China kind of

1853
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:08,840
Speaker 8: pushed all of that capital down the make Coung River delta.

1854
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 8: This is going to absolutely fucking suck for everyone in Laos.

1855
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:15,120
Speaker 8: And you know, this is something I want to keep

1856
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:18,840
Speaker 8: emphasizing over and over again that these turf teriffs, people

1857
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:22,439
Speaker 8: they hurt the most are workers in places like Laos,

1858
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:26,040
Speaker 8: in places like Syria. Right, Hugoid should just be absolutely

1859
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:31,679
Speaker 8: fucking devastated by it. Now, let's also talk Switzerland, which

1860
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:34,000
Speaker 8: was the other country that had a terriff at like

1861
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:39,240
Speaker 8: forty percent. This one is genuinely really funny, which is

1862
01:39:39,240 --> 01:39:41,800
Speaker 8: that it seems to largely be driven by Trump being

1863
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 8: pissed off of the trade deficit, which is like, compared

1864
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:46,360
Speaker 8: to like the scale of the US economy, the trade

1865
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:49,559
Speaker 8: deficit is like zero dollars. But the funniest part of

1866
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:51,640
Speaker 8: this is that the trade deficit is largely driven by

1867
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:55,040
Speaker 8: gold imports. Now, this is extremely funny because If you

1868
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,960
Speaker 8: know anything about the American right, you know that a

1869
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 8: lot of the ways that they did their funding, especially

1870
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 8: when they were sort of building their operations, a huge

1871
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 8: source of their funding is getting their followers to buy gold.

1872
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 8: This was the original Alex Jones grift, right. I think

1873
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 8: he still does it a little bit now, before he

1874
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 8: sort of pivoted in supplements. You would partner with like

1875
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:15,559
Speaker 8: gold salesman and like silvia salesman. This and this has

1876
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 8: always been a huge source of these people's money. Now

1877
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:20,640
Speaker 8: there's there's been a little bit of decrease in the

1878
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 8: prominence of gold as a thing. Actually, there's a very

1879
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:29,960
Speaker 8: good Folding Ideas video about this incredibly bizarre Idris Elba

1880
01:40:31,120 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 8: Weird Gold promotion documentary which talks about the ways in

1881
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 8: which gold has been sort of threatened by bitcoin and

1882
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 8: well mostly bitgcoin. But it's like cryptocurrency in general is

1883
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 8: like the scam. You're trying to sell all of these

1884
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:48,679
Speaker 8: sort of weird prepper and like hardline quote unquote sound

1885
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 8: money libertarian y types. But it is very funny that

1886
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:55,640
Speaker 8: this is in effect a self reinforcing cycle, because the

1887
01:40:55,720 --> 01:40:57,040
Speaker 8: thing about the price of gold is that it is

1888
01:40:57,120 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 8: largely determined by how fucked the rest of the economy

1889
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 8: is gold. People who are trying to sell gold are

1890
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:03,519
Speaker 8: trying to sell you on the fact that the economy

1891
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:06,639
Speaker 8: is about to fucking explode. But this is a cyclical effect,

1892
01:41:06,760 --> 01:41:09,679
Speaker 8: right where these teriff rates go up and the economy explodes,

1893
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 8: and so people buy more gold from Switzerland, at which

1894
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 8: point are trade balanced with Switzerland gets worse.

1895
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:18,280
Speaker 2: It works, it worse, so any all.

1896
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 8: Other like Swiss watches are another sort of major source

1897
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 8: of export currency, so offf which are again all worn

1898
01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:25,880
Speaker 8: by all these fucking maga grifters with their like fucking

1899
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 8: ten thousand dollars watches or whatever, So that one is

1900
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:32,760
Speaker 8: just funny. Trump has also announced and this has not

1901
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:36,559
Speaker 8: gone into effect yet, who fucking knows when if it

1902
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 8: goes into effect, But I think it's worth talking about,

1903
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:42,519
Speaker 8: which is that Trump has been talking about putting a

1904
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:46,760
Speaker 8: one hundred percent tariff on semiconductors unless you invest in

1905
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:50,600
Speaker 8: the US. So Apple sort of in response to this,

1906
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 8: pledged one hundred million dollars in investment in the US

1907
01:41:53,479 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 8: to build chips. And I think it's also worth looking

1908
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:59,120
Speaker 8: at the ideological underpinnings of this, because a huge part

1909
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:02,560
Speaker 8: of this thing is something that you've been seeing increasingly

1910
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 8: on the right, is this dream of making domestic iPhones.

1911
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 8: And if you look at the people in the tech sector, right,

1912
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:10,519
Speaker 8: the sort of tech billionaires you run all this stuff,

1913
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:14,080
Speaker 8: they're openly fantasizing about like, oh, these like soft weak

1914
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:16,479
Speaker 8: liberals are going to be forced to like work in

1915
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:20,880
Speaker 8: the factories and put iPhones together or whatever. And it's

1916
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 8: worth emphasizing that this is just not possible, right, And

1917
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:27,880
Speaker 8: this is true of a significant number of the things

1918
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:29,559
Speaker 8: that they want these tariffs to do. They're just not

1919
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:32,639
Speaker 8: possible results of the policy levers they're pulling. A couple

1920
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:35,519
Speaker 8: of months ago, I described a sort of similar policy

1921
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 8: thing to this as like they are attempting to scream

1922
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:41,360
Speaker 8: at the moon in order to control the tides. It's like,

1923
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 8: it doesn't work. It's not the right lever. It literally

1924
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 8: can't do what you think it's going to do. And

1925
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:49,639
Speaker 8: it's worth going into why, which is that we can't

1926
01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:53,599
Speaker 8: make iPhones here because we don't have the migrant labor

1927
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 8: force to do it. And a lot of you may

1928
01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:57,479
Speaker 8: be thinking, oh, well, the US has a lot of

1929
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:01,599
Speaker 8: migrant workers. No, you don't understand China, which is where

1930
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:03,639
Speaker 8: most of these things are built. Even with the tariffs,

1931
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:05,000
Speaker 8: like a lot of you know that there were some

1932
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 8: downcycling of plants, that stuff has mostly been upcycled. Again,

1933
01:43:09,240 --> 01:43:13,639
Speaker 8: China has three hundred million migrant workers. That is almost

1934
01:43:13,680 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 8: the entire population of the United States. Right, we are

1935
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 8: talking about individual plants with two hundred thousand workers. That

1936
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:25,200
Speaker 8: is the low end estimate. By the way of those numbers,

1937
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:27,559
Speaker 8: we don't actually have very good numbers on how big

1938
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 8: some of these fox Con facilities are. The low end

1939
01:43:30,040 --> 01:43:33,640
Speaker 8: estimate is two hundred thousand. Right, And again this is

1940
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:38,280
Speaker 8: just in time production. So okay, what does that actually mean? Right?

1941
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:41,280
Speaker 8: This means that the production cycles work on a lot

1942
01:43:41,320 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 8: of For example, the way that UPS works, right, We're like,

1943
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:46,719
Speaker 8: you have a bunch of people who are effectively seasonal

1944
01:43:46,760 --> 01:43:49,360
Speaker 8: or part time workers who only come in when demand increases.

1945
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:52,240
Speaker 8: So for UPS, right, and it's actually a relatively similar

1946
01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:54,760
Speaker 8: schedule to the way it works in China. But it's

1947
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:57,920
Speaker 8: like there's these massive surges around the holidays with apples,

1948
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 8: it's more like September November roughly, But it's in order

1949
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:05,960
Speaker 8: to like massively be able to ramp up production in

1950
01:44:06,120 --> 01:44:09,519
Speaker 8: time for you know, the sort of like massive holiday

1951
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,320
Speaker 8: increase of orders. Right, But in order to do this,

1952
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,280
Speaker 8: you need to have a production apparatus where you have

1953
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 8: two hundred thousand workers there, but you can also get

1954
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:21,320
Speaker 8: rid of most of them and they can support themselves

1955
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:23,640
Speaker 8: doing other stuff for the rest of the year, and

1956
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:25,679
Speaker 8: then you have to be able to bring them back

1957
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:29,120
Speaker 8: in during peak season. We just do not have the

1958
01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 8: populations to replicate this, right, even if you're trying to

1959
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:34,599
Speaker 8: replace it with prison labor. The thing about the American

1960
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 8: prison system is that it's decentralized, right. This is actually

1961
01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:39,959
Speaker 8: a key element of how the US economy is structured.

1962
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:42,839
Speaker 8: Prisons are one of the sort of three major sources

1963
01:44:42,880 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 8: of jobs in rural areas. The other two are like

1964
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:48,600
Speaker 8: Walmart style service jobs, which replaced anything else that was

1965
01:44:48,600 --> 01:44:50,680
Speaker 8: in the economy, and the military basis, which is part

1966
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 8: of why you know, like like this is part of

1967
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:55,599
Speaker 8: why rural politics of console reactionary, because like, okay, so

1968
01:44:55,640 --> 01:45:01,920
Speaker 8: if your options in the economy are soldier, prison guard,

1969
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:06,080
Speaker 8: service labor, you're gonna generate a bunch of unhinged reactionary bullshit.

1970
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:10,040
Speaker 8: But again, even even though the American prison system has

1971
01:45:10,040 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 8: a really high population. These people are really spread out,

1972
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:20,160
Speaker 8: and iPhone production requires sort of like mass centralization, right,

1973
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:22,679
Speaker 8: that's the only way to get these things to work. Plus,

1974
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:25,240
Speaker 8: the workers that you're bringing in have to be skilled

1975
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 8: enough to be able to do this shit. And this

1976
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 8: is a capacity that's built up in China over the

1977
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:32,599
Speaker 8: course of like decades, right, And we don't really have

1978
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 8: this now that people have tried moving this production to

1979
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:38,880
Speaker 8: other places like Vietnam, for example, the teriff rates there

1980
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:42,479
Speaker 8: are also making this extremely difficult, but it's been really

1981
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:46,400
Speaker 8: really hard to replace. And the other issue, and this

1982
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:48,719
Speaker 8: is a technological issue, not just a sort of issue

1983
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:52,800
Speaker 8: of the systemic elements of the population of China. The

1984
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:58,040
Speaker 8: infrastructure to build microchips in the US doesn't exist. And

1985
01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:01,320
Speaker 8: it's not just that the infrastructure to build the chips

1986
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:03,680
Speaker 8: doesn't exist. It's actually way worse than that. And this

1987
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 8: is why all of the attempts and the Biden administration

1988
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:07,960
Speaker 8: has put an enormous amount of money into this. The

1989
01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:10,080
Speaker 8: Chinese government also has put an enormous amount of money

1990
01:46:10,080 --> 01:46:12,080
Speaker 8: specifically into the microchip angle, and none of them may

1991
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 8: have been able to do it. And part of it's

1992
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:17,080
Speaker 8: technological problem. But part of it is that the machines

1993
01:46:17,120 --> 01:46:20,080
Speaker 8: that you need to make the chips don't exist, right,

1994
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 8: But the machines you need to make the machines that

1995
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,080
Speaker 8: make the chips also don't exist. And the machines you

1996
01:46:26,120 --> 01:46:28,640
Speaker 8: need to make the machines that make the machines that

1997
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,599
Speaker 8: make the chips also don't exist. We are so far

1998
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:33,600
Speaker 8: up the supply chain, right, And this is one of

1999
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:34,880
Speaker 8: the you know, one of the things, the thing that

2000
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:38,960
Speaker 8: they're trying to do through sort of like pure politics,

2001
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 8: right through like just like the pure exertion of state power,

2002
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:45,920
Speaker 8: is to reshape the fundamental structural way that the supply

2003
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:47,599
Speaker 8: chain has worked. And the way the supply chain has

2004
01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:52,680
Speaker 8: worked is by intense specialization in very very very small areas. Right,

2005
01:46:52,760 --> 01:46:55,479
Speaker 8: So Taiwan, for example, becomes the only place basically that

2006
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:58,960
Speaker 8: can manufacture these chips, and that intense specification means that

2007
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,240
Speaker 8: like the machines, that the machines that they that are

2008
01:47:01,320 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 8: used to build this thing are only made by like

2009
01:47:02,680 --> 01:47:04,240
Speaker 8: one company in social land, and like machines to make

2010
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:07,440
Speaker 8: those machines, like who the fuck knows where they're built.

2011
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,640
Speaker 8: And this is the thing where the technology involves has

2012
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:12,920
Speaker 8: become so complicated and the laborers become so specialized that

2013
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,519
Speaker 8: you're dealing with machines that like just straight up not

2014
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 8: many people in the world know how to use, and

2015
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:20,599
Speaker 8: not on the people in the world know how to create,

2016
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:24,040
Speaker 8: and so we're so far up the supply chain, right,

2017
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 8: And this is also if you want to look at

2018
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:27,559
Speaker 8: like what the impact of these terrorists are going to be, right,

2019
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 8: because these supply chains are so specialized, you know, can

2020
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:33,200
Speaker 8: you can think of these supply chains as like incredibly

2021
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:37,519
Speaker 8: complicated machines, right, and any sort of like little rock

2022
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:39,800
Speaker 8: that you throw into the machine, or do you know,

2023
01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 8: you throw sand into the machine and suddenly the ball

2024
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 8: bearing doesn't work at quite the right efficiency, and so

2025
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:47,000
Speaker 8: things just start breaking down across the entire supply chain.

2026
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 8: And they think that they can just replicate all of

2027
01:47:49,360 --> 01:47:53,280
Speaker 8: this with just like pure tariffs and like throwing money

2028
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:56,000
Speaker 8: at it, and no, you can't. These are these are

2029
01:47:56,040 --> 01:47:59,200
Speaker 8: actual structural things of how the economy works. Now, do

2030
01:47:59,200 --> 01:48:01,639
Speaker 8: you know what else is a structural element of how

2031
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:04,640
Speaker 8: the economy works? Idiots? These products and services and the

2032
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:19,000
Speaker 8: fact that they fund this podcast. Woo, we are so

2033
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:22,800
Speaker 8: back now one of the other kind of terriffts I

2034
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:26,120
Speaker 8: think I've been calling I guess like defiance tariffs. One

2035
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 8: of the things that Tromp administration has been doing is

2036
01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:31,080
Speaker 8: threatening to impose a fifty percent teriff on anyone who

2037
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:34,320
Speaker 8: buys oil from Russia. India has been threatened with this.

2038
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:36,840
Speaker 8: India's current terrif rate is twenty five percent. They're right

2039
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:39,000
Speaker 8: now threatening with another twenty five percent against in the

2040
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:42,160
Speaker 8: fifty percent. It's sort of unclear exactly who's going to

2041
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 8: back down here. More interestingly, and we've talked a little

2042
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:49,400
Speaker 8: bit about this, Brazil, there is a fifty percent turf

2043
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:53,360
Speaker 8: teriff on Brazil again for refusing to release Bolsonaro, which

2044
01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:56,800
Speaker 8: is very funny because this has managed to piss off

2045
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:01,160
Speaker 8: the entire sort of political sphere in Brazil to the

2046
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 8: extent that like Bolsonaro has had to come out and

2047
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:07,559
Speaker 8: announce this because Bolsonaro was getting fucking torn to shreds

2048
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:11,439
Speaker 8: by the Brazilian right for being basically a trader, sort

2049
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:13,519
Speaker 8: of lapdog of the US as they're sort of, you know,

2050
01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:18,240
Speaker 8: imposing this direct attack on Brazil through this fifty percent tariff. Right,

2051
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:22,960
Speaker 8: it's backfire so spectacularly that like Lula, who was floundering,

2052
01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:25,760
Speaker 8: is now writing this incredible wave of sort of anti

2053
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:28,360
Speaker 8: American Brazilian nationalism from both the left and the right.

2054
01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:31,200
Speaker 8: So Lula, who is who is again in a pretty

2055
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:33,560
Speaker 8: strong political position because of this, has refused to do

2056
01:49:33,720 --> 01:49:35,920
Speaker 8: direct talk to the US because he was like, absolutely

2057
01:49:35,960 --> 01:49:39,040
Speaker 8: not fuck this. Here's a quote from Reuters. We had

2058
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:42,400
Speaker 8: already pardoned the US intervention in the nineteen sixty four coup,

2059
01:49:42,400 --> 01:49:44,439
Speaker 8: said Lula, who got his political start as a union

2060
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 8: leader protesting against the military government that followed a US

2061
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 8: backed ouster of a democratically elected president. Quote. But this

2062
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:53,400
Speaker 8: is now not a small intervention. It's the president of

2063
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:56,439
Speaker 8: the United States thinking he can dictate rules for a

2064
01:49:56,520 --> 01:50:00,720
Speaker 8: sovereign country like Brazil. It's unacceptable. Now. Again, as I

2065
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:02,760
Speaker 8: said in the ed, there's a lot of things now

2066
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:04,880
Speaker 8: that are worth looking at here. Right, we have, on

2067
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:08,439
Speaker 8: the one hand, this direct connection from Lula from you know,

2068
01:50:08,520 --> 01:50:12,040
Speaker 8: the sort of subtle CIA backing of military coup stuff

2069
01:50:12,120 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 8: which happens under the table. To you know this just

2070
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:18,320
Speaker 8: like the president of the United States is telling you

2071
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:21,759
Speaker 8: how to run your country. And that is a substantive shift,

2072
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:25,160
Speaker 8: even if like the CIA overthrowing your government like has

2073
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:27,840
Speaker 8: more of a direct political impact on it. Right. The

2074
01:50:27,880 --> 01:50:29,800
Speaker 8: thing about the thing about the way American power worked

2075
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:31,799
Speaker 8: was that it was mostly supposed to be under the table,

2076
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:34,439
Speaker 8: and it's not now. It's just it's just out there

2077
01:50:34,479 --> 01:50:37,639
Speaker 8: in the open. Right. The premise that the US governments,

2078
01:50:37,680 --> 01:50:39,160
Speaker 8: like the president of the United States, should just be

2079
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:41,439
Speaker 8: able to tell another country what to do is the

2080
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:44,800
Speaker 8: fucking premise of American imperialism. And now they're just saying

2081
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:47,280
Speaker 8: it out loud. And it's also worth noting that it's

2082
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:49,719
Speaker 8: not like Lula is some kind of like anti American

2083
01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:53,280
Speaker 8: radical right like Lula worked really well in his first

2084
01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:56,920
Speaker 8: term in office, which works w Bush, but again because

2085
01:50:56,920 --> 01:50:58,840
Speaker 8: of the way that the political wins have shifted here,

2086
01:50:58,920 --> 01:51:01,800
Speaker 8: right to the extent that like Bulsonaro has had to

2087
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:06,080
Speaker 8: condemn an attempt to get him released from prison, which

2088
01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:10,000
Speaker 8: is so funny because he's doing this. He is, he is,

2089
01:51:10,040 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 8: he is pushing very hard. Now there hasn't really been

2090
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:16,679
Speaker 8: a response yet for Lula's like call for organized terror

2091
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:20,280
Speaker 8: resistance from China and India and Bricks. I don't know

2092
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:22,840
Speaker 8: if there's going to be. It's worth talking a little

2093
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:27,400
Speaker 8: bit about what Bricks actually is here, So bricks stands

2094
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:31,560
Speaker 8: for Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. It was originally

2095
01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:34,280
Speaker 8: like an asset class designed by some guys at Goldman

2096
01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:36,920
Speaker 8: Sachs who were you know, trying to like classify the

2097
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:40,880
Speaker 8: assets of this kind of like developing economy thing. It

2098
01:51:40,960 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 8: was like, you know, you can buy bonds and these

2099
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:45,080
Speaker 8: things and maybe you can classify their asset rates together,

2100
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:49,120
Speaker 8: and has kind of become a political alliance. But you know,

2101
01:51:49,320 --> 01:51:51,320
Speaker 8: there's a lot of people who will attempt to sell

2102
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:53,479
Speaker 8: you on bricks being the sort of like leftist anti

2103
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:56,760
Speaker 8: imperial alliance, you know, and as a sort of socialist thing.

2104
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:01,400
Speaker 8: And like I will simply ask, right, who is doing

2105
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:05,040
Speaker 8: the socialism here? Right? Is it a butcher of Gujarat?

2106
01:52:05,439 --> 01:52:09,439
Speaker 8: Is it she quote we must oppose welfarerism jimping? Is

2107
01:52:09,479 --> 01:52:13,439
Speaker 8: it Vladimir? We will show Ukraine true decommunization putin? Is

2108
01:52:13,479 --> 01:52:15,920
Speaker 8: it the African National Congress of selling your country to

2109
01:52:16,120 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 8: Bank of America? Is it the butcher of Haiti?

2110
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:18,519
Speaker 7: Like?

2111
01:52:18,560 --> 01:52:20,800
Speaker 8: What are we doing here? Right? Like this is not

2112
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:23,920
Speaker 8: actually a substantively anti American political alliance. India is a

2113
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:27,360
Speaker 8: close American ally. South Africa is a close American ally,

2114
01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:31,479
Speaker 8: none of this really makes any sense. It's not a

2115
01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 8: substantive political alliance. Really, people periodically make noise about it

2116
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:40,000
Speaker 8: trying to be a substantive political alliance. But like I mean,

2117
01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:43,439
Speaker 8: like India and China are periodically like at war or

2118
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:46,519
Speaker 8: like almost at war with each other over the border. Right,

2119
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:49,200
Speaker 8: these are a bunch of countries that absolutely fucking hate

2120
01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:52,400
Speaker 8: each other. It's never been a coherent political project. Lula

2121
01:52:52,439 --> 01:52:55,600
Speaker 8: is trying to turn it into one, but like I

2122
01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:58,720
Speaker 8: fucking I don't think that's gonna work. So, you know,

2123
01:52:58,880 --> 01:53:01,040
Speaker 8: that's sort of what's been going on on the front

2124
01:53:01,040 --> 01:53:03,920
Speaker 8: to sort of national resistance. But Lula does have, you know,

2125
01:53:03,960 --> 01:53:07,960
Speaker 8: a kind of very very large and powerful political force

2126
01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:11,759
Speaker 8: behind him domestically to resist this. We'll see what happens

2127
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:13,800
Speaker 8: going forward. It's also worth noting that China has been

2128
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:17,120
Speaker 8: negotiating with the US, and their tariff increases we're supposed

2129
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 8: to go into effect have been delayed for another ninety days.

2130
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:23,240
Speaker 8: So we're stuck in this holding pattern again. But let's

2131
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:26,680
Speaker 8: talk about what this means for the economy, right, And

2132
01:53:27,080 --> 01:53:29,960
Speaker 8: I think the very short term answer is that I

2133
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:34,120
Speaker 8: don't think anyone really knows right, Like, the actual macro

2134
01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:39,519
Speaker 8: effects of this are things that we've only just started

2135
01:53:39,560 --> 01:53:41,519
Speaker 8: to see. No one's ever really tried to model this

2136
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:44,640
Speaker 8: out because there's no reason why it whatever happened, you know,

2137
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 8: And you're starting to see things behind the scenes, like

2138
01:53:49,320 --> 01:53:53,120
Speaker 8: medical supplies being incredibly difficult to acquire. You're starting to

2139
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:56,880
Speaker 8: see a bunch of very very weird items and supply

2140
01:53:57,040 --> 01:54:01,400
Speaker 8: chains become increasingly difficult to find. But again, the supply

2141
01:54:01,439 --> 01:54:03,040
Speaker 8: chains are going to break down in ways that we

2142
01:54:03,120 --> 01:54:05,760
Speaker 8: just don't really understand. What is going to happen, and

2143
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:08,680
Speaker 8: what has started to happen is inflation is increasing. I

2144
01:54:08,760 --> 01:54:12,559
Speaker 8: want to sort of again review our kind of inflation theory, right,

2145
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:17,400
Speaker 8: which is largely derived from our friends's strange matter sort

2146
01:54:17,400 --> 01:54:20,719
Speaker 8: of supply chain theory of inflation. Their uses of inflation

2147
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:24,439
Speaker 8: is that, like, it's not set by just supply and demand.

2148
01:54:24,560 --> 01:54:28,360
Speaker 8: It's set by cost plus markup. Because you know, price

2149
01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:32,120
Speaker 8: is not set by like an autonomous thing called the market.

2150
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:35,320
Speaker 8: Price is set by like a guy with like a

2151
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:39,200
Speaker 8: price gun. Right, It's directly set by people. And the

2152
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:42,560
Speaker 8: way that those people set the price is you know

2153
01:54:42,640 --> 01:54:44,960
Speaker 8: the cost of acquiring the item, plus and markup for

2154
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 8: their profit. Now, one of the sort of fundamental like

2155
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:50,840
Speaker 8: insights here is that price is sort of sticky until

2156
01:54:50,840 --> 01:54:54,960
Speaker 8: it isn't, right, which is that like, okay, So the

2157
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:57,080
Speaker 8: actual thing that controls price is sort of like how

2158
01:54:57,200 --> 01:55:03,080
Speaker 8: pissed off consumers get at price increases, but also comma

2159
01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 8: that is also very very much tied to brand, right,

2160
01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:08,760
Speaker 8: And if you raise your prices and consumers get pissed,

2161
01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:10,839
Speaker 8: you even if you drop them again, that doesn't necessarily

2162
01:55:10,920 --> 01:55:14,400
Speaker 8: mean those people will come back, right. So you know

2163
01:55:14,560 --> 01:55:16,960
Speaker 8: a lot of times when they're when when there's price increases,

2164
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:18,960
Speaker 8: companies try to eat it. And that's and that's been

2165
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:20,960
Speaker 8: what's happening with a lot of these things right where

2166
01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:23,720
Speaker 8: at each point in the supply chain, people are you know,

2167
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:26,440
Speaker 8: people are having to sort of pay for the tariff parts, right,

2168
01:55:27,080 --> 01:55:29,160
Speaker 8: And when someone has to pay for the tariff, they

2169
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 8: increase their prices that they sell it to the next

2170
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:33,320
Speaker 8: person in the supply chain. The next person's supply chain

2171
01:55:33,360 --> 01:55:36,600
Speaker 8: increases their prices right now, So the way that these

2172
01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:38,840
Speaker 8: terriffs play out, right is that each person in the

2173
01:55:38,840 --> 01:55:41,200
Speaker 8: supply chain is doing costless markup, but their costs are

2174
01:55:41,240 --> 01:55:44,920
Speaker 8: going up. So your options are either you sell it

2175
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,080
Speaker 8: at the same price and you reduce the amount of

2176
01:55:47,080 --> 01:55:49,280
Speaker 8: markup you're getting, which is just reducing the raw profit

2177
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:52,560
Speaker 8: you're taking in, or you raise your prices. And these

2178
01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:55,240
Speaker 8: things are trying to not raise their prices, and part

2179
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:57,480
Speaker 8: of this is from direct political pressure right like Trump

2180
01:55:57,480 --> 01:56:01,040
Speaker 8: has been threatening companies to not raise their prices from

2181
01:56:01,080 --> 01:56:06,880
Speaker 8: the tariffs. But prices are starting to increase. And as

2182
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:09,400
Speaker 8: this goes on, and as more and more teriffs come

2183
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:11,320
Speaker 8: into effect, that it becomes more and more difficult to

2184
01:56:11,320 --> 01:56:14,760
Speaker 8: evade the tariffs. The prices are going to keep increasing

2185
01:56:14,800 --> 01:56:19,200
Speaker 8: because they're driven by these supply chain price increases. So

2186
01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 8: you know, cost is going to go up. It is

2187
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:25,400
Speaker 8: going to have absolutely devastating impacts on workers across the world,

2188
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:28,360
Speaker 8: primarily not in the US, but the workers who are

2189
01:56:28,400 --> 01:56:30,640
Speaker 8: in these export oriented economies are going to have to

2190
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:35,760
Speaker 8: deal with just the absolute horror of large scale economic collapse.

2191
01:56:36,480 --> 01:56:38,360
Speaker 8: You know what, who else hopefully doesn't have to deal

2192
01:56:38,400 --> 01:56:40,560
Speaker 8: with the absolute horror of large scale economic collapse. It

2193
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:53,280
Speaker 8: is the products and services to support this podcast. We

2194
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:56,200
Speaker 8: are back now. The thing I want to close this

2195
01:56:56,280 --> 01:56:59,400
Speaker 8: episode on is not actually a look at the economy

2196
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:02,680
Speaker 8: because I think, you know, we kind of don't know

2197
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:05,920
Speaker 8: exactly what's going to happen with the economy other than bad.

2198
01:57:06,800 --> 01:57:08,600
Speaker 8: But there is something that I think we can look

2199
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:13,280
Speaker 8: at that's been broadly ignored or miscovered, which is what

2200
01:57:13,360 --> 01:57:16,720
Speaker 8: these tariffs say about the nature of the state. And

2201
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:19,520
Speaker 8: I think what's happening is that we're seeing a fundamental

2202
01:57:19,720 --> 01:57:24,000
Speaker 8: change in the way that the state functions from the

2203
01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:28,520
Speaker 8: previous sort of neoliberal regime to this like just really

2204
01:57:28,560 --> 01:57:32,960
Speaker 8: openly fascist one. And I think the most clear example

2205
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:35,240
Speaker 8: of this isn't necessarily the terriffs, so they are a

2206
01:57:35,280 --> 01:57:41,400
Speaker 8: pretty clear example. It's this extremely weird like extortion agreement

2207
01:57:41,440 --> 01:57:45,080
Speaker 8: reached between Trump, AMD, and Nvidia. I'm going to read

2208
01:57:45,080 --> 01:57:49,160
Speaker 8: this from CBS quote. US chip makers in Nvidia and

2209
01:57:49,200 --> 01:57:52,280
Speaker 8: AMD will pay the US government fifteen percent of revenue

2210
01:57:52,320 --> 01:57:55,320
Speaker 8: generated by sales of their AI chips in China. A

2211
01:57:55,360 --> 01:58:00,680
Speaker 8: White House official confirmed to CBS News this is just

2212
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:03,720
Speaker 8: a shakedown, right, you know. This is part of a

2213
01:58:03,760 --> 01:58:08,360
Speaker 8: negotiating process by which originally AMD and Video were going

2214
01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:10,680
Speaker 8: to be banned for selling the reiships to China, and

2215
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:12,600
Speaker 8: in order to be allowed to sell these ships to China,

2216
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:14,480
Speaker 8: Trump was like, okay, if you want to do that,

2217
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 8: give us like thirty percent of your revenue, when they

2218
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:19,360
Speaker 8: were like, okay, what if we did fifteen percent? Right,

2219
01:58:20,600 --> 01:58:24,280
Speaker 8: this is just a shakedown, and you know it's been

2220
01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:27,400
Speaker 8: described as such all over the press, but they're missing

2221
01:58:27,520 --> 01:58:31,720
Speaker 8: something fundamental here, which is that the state fundamentally is

2222
01:58:31,880 --> 01:58:32,680
Speaker 8: just a shakedown.

2223
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:33,040
Speaker 13: Right.

2224
01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:36,320
Speaker 8: The analysis of Trump isn't from the sort of critical

2225
01:58:36,360 --> 01:58:38,520
Speaker 8: press has been to view it as corruption. And it

2226
01:58:38,640 --> 01:58:41,760
Speaker 8: is absolutely corrupt, right, like, no question about this. It

2227
01:58:41,800 --> 01:58:44,080
Speaker 8: is unbelievably corrupt. Like we have people just giving the

2228
01:58:44,120 --> 01:58:47,520
Speaker 8: president blocks of fucking gold with an iPhone embedded into them. Right,

2229
01:58:47,560 --> 01:58:53,160
Speaker 8: it's it's hideous open corruption. But analysis that looks at

2230
01:58:53,200 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 8: the Trump administration as corruption of an ideal type, right,

2231
01:58:58,200 --> 01:59:01,480
Speaker 8: that looks at it as the transformation of the state

2232
01:59:01,560 --> 01:59:05,440
Speaker 8: into something that it fundamentally isn't. That kind of analysis

2233
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:09,360
Speaker 8: is just wrong. The state has always and has always

2234
01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:13,920
Speaker 8: only been the localized monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Right,

2235
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 8: That's all it is. That's always ever been. Everything we

2236
01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:19,960
Speaker 8: know about the state today, right from the legal system

2237
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,360
Speaker 8: to education, to roads, to environmental regulation to the welfare state,

2238
01:59:23,960 --> 01:59:26,760
Speaker 8: are all just functions that were tacked on to the

2239
01:59:26,880 --> 01:59:30,240
Speaker 8: core monopoly on violence, either as part of a carrot

2240
01:59:30,240 --> 01:59:33,400
Speaker 8: and state gambit to maintain control of population or simply

2241
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:37,600
Speaker 8: as a concession to popular force. You can just have

2242
01:59:37,680 --> 01:59:40,720
Speaker 8: a state that is a bunch of guys with guns

2243
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 8: who rule purely by fiat and have control over an area.

2244
01:59:43,600 --> 01:59:45,840
Speaker 8: That is a state. Everything else that we think of

2245
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:48,200
Speaker 8: as being part of a state is tacked on, and

2246
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:51,200
Speaker 8: trump Ism as a political force has simply reverted the

2247
01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 8: state back to a pure mode of extraction. Right, the

2248
01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:57,680
Speaker 8: state is men with guns who take shit from you

2249
01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:00,200
Speaker 8: to pay for those guns. And it becomes it was

2250
02:00:00,240 --> 02:00:03,920
Speaker 8: breasthtakingly clear that this is, you know, how the state

2251
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:06,800
Speaker 8: is functioning Tree and Trump administration, because the Trump administration

2252
02:00:07,320 --> 02:00:10,760
Speaker 8: has been slashing benefits while handing tax breaks and giant

2253
02:00:10,760 --> 02:00:13,960
Speaker 8: government contracts worth billions of dollars to the tech elite.

2254
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:16,760
Speaker 8: And they've been spending tens of billions of dollars, you know,

2255
02:00:16,840 --> 02:00:18,880
Speaker 8: to hand to the men's with guns and to recruit

2256
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:21,920
Speaker 8: new men with guns for the mass deportation regime. Right,

2257
02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:25,520
Speaker 8: this is just a pure version of the state as

2258
02:00:25,560 --> 02:00:28,200
Speaker 8: an extraction regime, as a regime that fucking takes money

2259
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:29,960
Speaker 8: for you at gunpoint to buy more men with guns,

2260
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:32,400
Speaker 8: so it can take more money from you. Trump Ism

2261
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:35,040
Speaker 8: imagines that you can collect this money to pay for

2262
02:00:35,080 --> 02:00:38,919
Speaker 8: the apparatus of violence and terror from just pure extortion

2263
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:41,480
Speaker 8: of foreigners in the working class, you know, And we

2264
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:43,400
Speaker 8: talked about this a bit at the beginning, right, this

2265
02:00:43,560 --> 02:00:46,040
Speaker 8: is part of why they want to do tariffs, is

2266
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:49,000
Speaker 8: they think to replace the income tax. You know, the

2267
02:00:49,040 --> 02:00:52,040
Speaker 8: income tax is just like absolutely despised by the extra

2268
02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:54,760
Speaker 8: state elements of the ruling class because rich people hate

2269
02:00:54,800 --> 02:00:59,400
Speaker 8: paying taxes. But there just isn't enough capital to run

2270
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:01,720
Speaker 8: a state life that with unemploying some kind of like

2271
02:01:01,840 --> 02:01:04,480
Speaker 8: MMTS money printing, which has alienated a huge part of

2272
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:08,440
Speaker 8: from sosterity coalition because his quote unquote deficit reduction stuff

2273
02:01:08,440 --> 02:01:11,120
Speaker 8: hasn't actually produced the deficit. So the people who like

2274
02:01:11,240 --> 02:01:14,480
Speaker 8: really really care about that shit ideologically are pissed. But

2275
02:01:14,640 --> 02:01:17,960
Speaker 8: also on a fundamental level, this is already how most

2276
02:01:18,120 --> 02:01:22,440
Speaker 8: city governments operate, right. They are enormous police budgets extracted

2277
02:01:22,480 --> 02:01:26,160
Speaker 8: at gunpoint, either from the city council directly or directly

2278
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:28,839
Speaker 8: from the working class from fees and fines and tickets

2279
02:01:28,880 --> 02:01:32,400
Speaker 8: like just leveled at working class people directly. And this

2280
02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:36,960
Speaker 8: is something that is a little different from how previous

2281
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:40,880
Speaker 8: regimes of neoliberalism has functions, because those previous regimes of

2282
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:43,920
Speaker 8: neoliberalism did a lot of these same things, but they

2283
02:01:43,960 --> 02:01:47,240
Speaker 8: were run through regimes of debt extraction. Right. It was

2284
02:01:47,320 --> 02:01:49,920
Speaker 8: you know, it was the imf right coming into your

2285
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:52,480
Speaker 8: country and being like, okay, if you want to pay

2286
02:01:52,520 --> 02:01:55,440
Speaker 8: back this these loans that this dictator took out, right,

2287
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:58,320
Speaker 8: you're going to have to like sell your entire fucking

2288
02:01:58,360 --> 02:02:01,240
Speaker 8: working class into pe andage so that your entire economy

2289
02:02:01,280 --> 02:02:03,480
Speaker 8: is going to be reoriented towards paying this debt back.

2290
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:07,720
Speaker 8: But again, that was debt extraction, base and finance based.

2291
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:10,480
Speaker 8: Trumpism wants to take out the middleman and just straight

2292
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:11,880
Speaker 8: up set give me all your money if you want

2293
02:02:11,920 --> 02:02:16,120
Speaker 8: to live. But this is not a particularly smart strategy.

2294
02:02:16,680 --> 02:02:19,280
Speaker 8: There's a reason that the state takes on other guises

2295
02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:22,080
Speaker 8: than just a man with a gun asking for your wallet. Right,

2296
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:27,000
Speaker 8: A more literal regime, a more direct regime, a regime

2297
02:02:27,040 --> 02:02:29,800
Speaker 8: where the violence is just out in the open, invites

2298
02:02:29,960 --> 02:02:32,640
Speaker 8: more literal resistance than a sort of symbolic regime or

2299
02:02:32,680 --> 02:02:37,080
Speaker 8: a regime that operates through more principles. All regimes of accumulation,

2300
02:02:37,320 --> 02:02:40,480
Speaker 8: of dispossession of resources taken by violence to produce more

2301
02:02:40,560 --> 02:02:44,720
Speaker 8: violence come to an end. Brick by brick and stone

2302
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,240
Speaker 8: by stone. Trumpism too will be torn to the ground

2303
02:02:47,280 --> 02:02:48,960
Speaker 8: by the hands of the people who it thought it

2304
02:02:49,000 --> 02:02:49,560
Speaker 8: could exploit.

2305
02:02:49,600 --> 02:03:00,440
Speaker 14: Forever this has been, it could happen here.

2306
02:03:12,040 --> 02:03:15,160
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone to electile dysfunction.

2307
02:03:15,400 --> 02:03:16,840
Speaker 9: Electile. That's a new one.

2308
02:03:16,960 --> 02:03:22,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Yes. The podcast about Why President Bad, also

2309
02:03:22,720 --> 02:03:28,200
Speaker 2: Why World Bad, also Why America Bad. I'm Robert Evans

2310
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:35,600
Speaker 2: introducer extraordinaire with me today. Garrison, Davis, Mio, Wong, James.

2311
02:03:35,200 --> 02:03:39,480
Speaker 9: Stout Eventually special segment from James Stout later in the episode.

2312
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:44,120
Speaker 2: Yes, later, he is being held in custody by the FTC.

2313
02:03:44,440 --> 02:03:45,160
Speaker 8: That's not true.

2314
02:03:45,360 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 9: You cannot say that because that is something that actually

2315
02:03:47,520 --> 02:03:48,640
Speaker 9: could happen over time.

2316
02:03:48,760 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 8: So unfortunately he is not.

2317
02:03:50,520 --> 02:03:53,240
Speaker 2: That's why I made it be the FTC. Garrison.

2318
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:55,800
Speaker 8: People will believe us, I don't. People will believe I

2319
02:03:55,840 --> 02:03:57,640
Speaker 8: can get arrested by the FTC any day now.

2320
02:03:57,800 --> 02:04:00,000
Speaker 2: We could get arrested for the FTC any day now.

2321
02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:02,760
Speaker 2: Thanks to the ads that I've been reading for British petroleum,

2322
02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:07,120
Speaker 2: even though I exclusively use American petroleum.

2323
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:11,400
Speaker 9: This episode recovering the week of August seven to August.

2324
02:04:11,160 --> 02:04:12,200
Speaker 6: Thirteen, yep.

2325
02:04:12,280 --> 02:04:12,720
Speaker 4: For note.

2326
02:04:13,040 --> 02:04:15,560
Speaker 9: Yes, it's just so we were. I think it's important

2327
02:04:15,600 --> 02:04:17,920
Speaker 9: to keep up because, Yeah, if people refer back to

2328
02:04:17,920 --> 02:04:20,400
Speaker 9: these episodes, it's good to know what week we're talking about.

2329
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't usually remember what day it is, so yeah,

2330
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:25,680
Speaker 2: good to do that, good to remember what day it

2331
02:04:25,720 --> 02:04:27,680
Speaker 2: is Meyah, you want to start us off?

2332
02:04:28,120 --> 02:04:31,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, need I need to issue a correction about Sesame Street.

2333
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:33,640
Speaker 8: I was wrong about Sesame C's structure. Where got a

2334
02:04:33,680 --> 02:04:35,960
Speaker 8: very street message from someone who works on the show

2335
02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:38,960
Speaker 8: about the way I talked about it being stripped for parts.

2336
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,640
Speaker 8: Sesame Street was never actually like ran by PBS. It

2337
02:04:42,760 --> 02:04:47,400
Speaker 8: was ran by its own independent nonprofit entity, Sesame Workshop,

2338
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:50,520
Speaker 8: I believe, Yeah, yes, not yeah, I'll called sesme Workshop.

2339
02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:54,080
Speaker 8: And so the episodes that were being streamed on HBO

2340
02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:55,760
Speaker 8: Max and I think they're now they've now moved to

2341
02:04:55,840 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 8: like Netflix. Those episodes all did still air on PBS, however,

2342
02:05:00,520 --> 02:05:03,640
Speaker 8: Comma the only aired nine months later. But yeah, I

2343
02:05:03,680 --> 02:05:06,200
Speaker 8: want to be clear about that. And then Garrison, do

2344
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:09,040
Speaker 8: you want to talk about PBS kind of not existing anymore.

2345
02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:13,320
Speaker 9: Well, PBS may still find a way to exist, but

2346
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:17,480
Speaker 9: specifically the Corporation for her Public Broadcasting, which helps facilitate

2347
02:05:18,440 --> 02:05:20,880
Speaker 9: the you know, the funding and the structure and the

2348
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:25,280
Speaker 9: operation of things like PBS and your local MPR, after

2349
02:05:25,320 --> 02:05:28,360
Speaker 9: being defunded by the Trump administration, is now going to

2350
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:29,840
Speaker 9: shut down completely.

2351
02:05:30,720 --> 02:05:32,960
Speaker 8: So yeah, and that's and that's a lot of the

2352
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:36,040
Speaker 8: how a lot of the funding for rural networks particularly

2353
02:05:37,120 --> 02:05:39,320
Speaker 8: was able to function. If your PBS network is like

2354
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,080
Speaker 8: mostly not funded by that, or they can find other

2355
02:05:42,120 --> 02:05:45,520
Speaker 8: funding sources, it can survive, but real bad.

2356
02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:50,280
Speaker 9: It's pretty disastrous for public media yep. And like NPR

2357
02:05:50,360 --> 02:05:52,920
Speaker 9: specifically and all of its local affiliates are some of

2358
02:05:52,920 --> 02:05:56,480
Speaker 9: the best like local news journalism across the country, and

2359
02:05:56,520 --> 02:05:58,360
Speaker 9: this is going to be a big hurdle to get

2360
02:05:58,400 --> 02:06:00,720
Speaker 9: over with the loss of a of like a giant

2361
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:03,720
Speaker 9: in the not just like the like national media space,

2362
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:07,440
Speaker 9: but like for journalism and as well as children's educational content.

2363
02:06:08,200 --> 02:06:09,640
Speaker 8: And it's you know, and it's worth messing to you

2364
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:13,080
Speaker 8: like this is one of the lasts as sort of

2365
02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:15,960
Speaker 8: local media and local radio and local newspapers have been

2366
02:06:16,280 --> 02:06:18,480
Speaker 8: carved out and got out of business and destroyed a

2367
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:22,000
Speaker 8: venture capital firms. NPR was like one of the last

2368
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:26,040
Speaker 8: local journalism outlets left in a lot of places, especially

2369
02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:32,120
Speaker 8: in rural areas, and that's just getting worse. So we

2370
02:06:32,160 --> 02:06:35,000
Speaker 8: hate that. Yeah, this has been the Sesame Street correction.

2371
02:06:35,160 --> 02:06:38,839
Speaker 8: I deeply apologize to the cast and crew and production

2372
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:40,240
Speaker 8: staff of Sesame Street.

2373
02:06:40,520 --> 02:06:45,440
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, particularly to Grover. Not sorry to Elmo. No

2374
02:06:45,560 --> 02:06:48,440
Speaker 2: apologies down, we saw what Almo was tweeting. I'm on

2375
02:06:48,560 --> 02:06:50,360
Speaker 2: Larry David's side of that beat.

2376
02:06:51,920 --> 02:06:56,640
Speaker 9: For our first main story this week, Let's talk DC.

2377
02:06:57,880 --> 02:07:01,480
Speaker 9: On Monday, Trump declared it was a liberation day for

2378
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:05,520
Speaker 9: the District of Columbia to quote unquote take our capital

2379
02:07:05,640 --> 02:07:09,960
Speaker 9: back and officially in voked section seven four zero of

2380
02:07:10,080 --> 02:07:12,720
Speaker 9: the District of Columbia Home Rule Act to place the

2381
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:17,000
Speaker 9: DC Metropolitan Police Department under direct federal control and order

2382
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:20,320
Speaker 9: the Secretary of Defense to mobilize the DC National Guard

2383
02:07:20,360 --> 02:07:24,920
Speaker 9: to quote address the epidemic of crime in our nation's capital.

2384
02:07:25,880 --> 02:07:30,120
Speaker 9: Along with this announcement, Trump police a presidential memorandum reading,

2385
02:07:30,160 --> 02:07:32,400
Speaker 9: in part quote, the local government of the District of

2386
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:36,040
Speaker 9: Columbia has lost control of public order and safety in

2387
02:07:36,120 --> 02:07:40,240
Speaker 9: the city. The mobilization and duration of duty shall remain

2388
02:07:40,400 --> 02:07:43,800
Speaker 9: in effect until I determine that conditions of law and

2389
02:07:43,920 --> 02:07:48,480
Speaker 9: order have been restored in the district of Columbia. Robert

2390
02:07:48,600 --> 02:07:51,720
Speaker 9: who in the past have you heard talk about federalizing

2391
02:07:51,760 --> 02:07:52,360
Speaker 9: the police?

2392
02:07:53,040 --> 02:07:57,960
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I mean just a Coppola. Guys. There's this

2393
02:07:58,080 --> 02:08:00,960
Speaker 2: dude Hitler who you know, worked with a guy named

2394
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:04,520
Speaker 2: Hermann Gering and Heinrich Himmler to do that back in

2395
02:08:04,560 --> 02:08:07,480
Speaker 2: the past. But that was in Germany, you know, a

2396
02:08:07,520 --> 02:08:11,840
Speaker 2: country totally different from the United States, almost three four

2397
02:08:11,880 --> 02:08:15,200
Speaker 2: countries away from US, so not really not really relevant

2398
02:08:15,240 --> 02:08:16,640
Speaker 2: at all to anything happening here.

2399
02:08:17,160 --> 02:08:19,240
Speaker 8: And we can all resassured it can't happen here.

2400
02:08:19,440 --> 02:08:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not Germans. We have a lot of Germans,

2401
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:24,160
Speaker 2: but we're not Germans.

2402
02:08:24,640 --> 02:08:27,800
Speaker 9: This is part of Jarvin's writing on how to take

2403
02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:30,320
Speaker 9: over the government, centralizing the police as one of the

2404
02:08:30,400 --> 02:08:34,880
Speaker 9: key steps nationalizing local law enforcement, putting um under federal control.

2405
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:40,680
Speaker 9: And here is another version of an acting such a policy,

2406
02:08:41,960 --> 02:08:47,160
Speaker 9: mainly citing this crime epidemic in DC, though according to

2407
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:52,080
Speaker 9: DC Metropolitan Police and their own crime figures, violent offenses

2408
02:08:52,120 --> 02:08:55,120
Speaker 9: which peaked in twenty twenty three fell to their lowest

2409
02:08:55,160 --> 02:08:58,120
Speaker 9: in twenty twenty four, lowest time in over thirty years,

2410
02:08:58,680 --> 02:09:01,080
Speaker 9: and now in twenty twenty five, I've continued to fall

2411
02:09:01,200 --> 02:09:04,080
Speaker 9: even lower than that, though. Trump claims that these stats,

2412
02:09:04,160 --> 02:09:06,760
Speaker 9: just like the just like the Bureau of Labor stats,

2413
02:09:06,800 --> 02:09:07,960
Speaker 9: are all made up. We're all fake.

2414
02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:08,640
Speaker 8: We'll get to that.

2415
02:09:08,680 --> 02:09:11,560
Speaker 9: These aren't. These aren't real stats, and they're they're they're

2416
02:09:11,560 --> 02:09:15,320
Speaker 9: assuming that there's there's been fake fake statisticians who have

2417
02:09:15,400 --> 02:09:18,720
Speaker 9: been covering up the real, the real crime wave happening

2418
02:09:19,200 --> 02:09:23,360
Speaker 9: across DC and even across the country. Trump cited three

2419
02:09:23,400 --> 02:09:28,240
Speaker 9: incidents leading to the federalization of DC police won the

2420
02:09:28,240 --> 02:09:32,120
Speaker 9: assassination of two Israeli MC staffers in May, a fatal

2421
02:09:32,120 --> 02:09:35,839
Speaker 9: shooting of a Congressional intern in June, and most recently,

2422
02:09:36,360 --> 02:09:40,360
Speaker 9: an alleged violent car jacking of the DOGE staffer known

2423
02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:44,640
Speaker 9: as Big Balls and a possible future recipient of the

2424
02:09:44,680 --> 02:09:47,480
Speaker 9: Presidential Medal of Honor.

2425
02:09:47,200 --> 02:09:47,920
Speaker 8: Or or Freedom.

2426
02:09:48,160 --> 02:09:52,120
Speaker 2: One of the medal. Yeah, well, you know, big Balls.

2427
02:09:52,240 --> 02:09:55,000
Speaker 9: Frankly, it might have some military credentials based on how

2428
02:09:55,000 --> 02:09:58,560
Speaker 9: he survived this latest uh, this this latest violent encounter.

2429
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:00,200
Speaker 9: Who's to say this is.

2430
02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:03,760
Speaker 2: Salt from a platoon of Romanians.

2431
02:10:03,880 --> 02:10:07,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, quite quite. Frankly, I feel like we're only about

2432
02:10:07,680 --> 02:10:10,560
Speaker 8: six to eight months out from him getting like commissioned

2433
02:10:10,560 --> 02:10:12,920
Speaker 8: as a lieutenant and then them giving him the actual

2434
02:10:12,960 --> 02:10:13,480
Speaker 8: medal of honor.

2435
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:16,680
Speaker 2: I'm saying, where I go for his courageous service getting

2436
02:10:16,680 --> 02:10:18,800
Speaker 2: beaten up by two fifteen year olds.

2437
02:10:19,000 --> 02:10:24,040
Speaker 9: So this latest incident with mister Balls I think is

2438
02:10:24,040 --> 02:10:28,960
Speaker 9: his official title at DOT. We're now the Social Security Administration.

2439
02:10:29,680 --> 02:10:31,000
Speaker 8: Not related to Ed Bolls.

2440
02:10:31,440 --> 02:10:35,120
Speaker 2: Different balls, but very different guys.

2441
02:10:35,120 --> 02:10:38,320
Speaker 9: This latest incident with mister Balls seemed to tip Trump

2442
02:10:38,400 --> 02:10:41,280
Speaker 9: over though this is something that he has lofted for

2443
02:10:41,400 --> 02:10:44,200
Speaker 9: months and months he's been wanting to do this. On

2444
02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:47,240
Speaker 9: Tuesday night, forty three arrests were made in DC in

2445
02:10:47,280 --> 02:10:52,640
Speaker 9: relation to the federal seizure of police, and fifty officers

2446
02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:55,920
Speaker 9: were part of this operation, half from DC Metro Police,

2447
02:10:55,920 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 9: which are now federalized. So far, only thirty National Guard

2448
02:10:59,280 --> 02:11:03,000
Speaker 9: troops have been deployed, but around eight hundred are on

2449
02:11:03,280 --> 02:11:08,360
Speaker 9: the way. On Wednesday, Trump discussed extending his control of

2450
02:11:08,440 --> 02:11:12,200
Speaker 9: DC police past the thirty day limit.

2451
02:11:12,840 --> 02:11:13,839
Speaker 8: Thank you, mister President.

2452
02:11:13,960 --> 02:11:16,960
Speaker 10: Your federalization of the police has a thirty day limit.

2453
02:11:17,040 --> 02:11:18,880
Speaker 13: Unless Congress acts to extend it.

2454
02:11:18,960 --> 02:11:21,000
Speaker 10: Are you talking to Congress about extending it or do

2455
02:11:21,040 --> 02:11:22,560
Speaker 10: you believe thirty days is sufficient.

2456
02:11:22,760 --> 02:11:24,840
Speaker 7: Well, if it's a national emergency, we can do it

2457
02:11:24,840 --> 02:11:27,800
Speaker 7: without Congress. But we expect to be to Congress before

2458
02:11:27,840 --> 02:11:31,800
Speaker 7: Congress very quickly. And again we think the Democrats will

2459
02:11:31,800 --> 02:11:33,920
Speaker 7: not do anything to stop crime, but we think the

2460
02:11:34,000 --> 02:11:37,440
Speaker 7: Republicans will do it almost unanimously. So we're going to

2461
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:40,480
Speaker 7: need a crime bill that we're going to be putting

2462
02:11:40,520 --> 02:11:44,560
Speaker 7: in and it's going to pertain initially to DC. It's

2463
02:11:44,600 --> 02:11:47,880
Speaker 7: almost we're going to use it as a very positive example,

2464
02:11:48,640 --> 02:11:51,760
Speaker 7: and we're going to be asking for extensions on that,

2465
02:11:51,840 --> 02:11:54,480
Speaker 7: long term extensions, because you can't have thirty days. Thirty

2466
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:57,640
Speaker 7: days is that's by the time you do it. We're

2467
02:11:57,640 --> 02:12:00,240
Speaker 7: going to have this in good shape. And don't forget

2468
02:12:00,360 --> 02:12:03,680
Speaker 7: in the border. Everyone said it would take years and

2469
02:12:03,720 --> 02:12:05,000
Speaker 7: you'd have to go back to Congress.

2470
02:12:05,040 --> 02:12:06,440
Speaker 6: I never went to Congress for anything.

2471
02:12:06,520 --> 02:12:10,400
Speaker 7: I just said close the border, and he closed the

2472
02:12:10,440 --> 02:12:12,920
Speaker 7: border and that was the end of it. I didn't

2473
02:12:12,920 --> 02:12:15,120
Speaker 7: go back to Congress. And we're going to do this

2474
02:12:15,240 --> 02:12:17,760
Speaker 7: very quickly, but we're going to want extensions. I don't

2475
02:12:17,800 --> 02:12:19,640
Speaker 7: want to call a national emergency if I have to,

2476
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:23,360
Speaker 7: I will, but I think the Republicans in Congress will

2477
02:12:23,360 --> 02:12:25,080
Speaker 7: approve this pretty much unanimously.

2478
02:12:27,800 --> 02:12:28,400
Speaker 8: Don't like that.

2479
02:12:29,240 --> 02:12:33,200
Speaker 9: No, it's pretty dictatorial on like a space level quote.

2480
02:12:33,240 --> 02:12:36,920
Speaker 9: If it's a national emergency, we can do it without Congress.

2481
02:12:37,120 --> 02:12:39,960
Speaker 8: It's very Palpatine emergency powers coded.

2482
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:42,440
Speaker 9: And I'm not sure if Lucas was pulling on any

2483
02:12:42,480 --> 02:12:46,640
Speaker 9: real world examples for Star Wars the prequels, or if

2484
02:12:46,640 --> 02:12:48,360
Speaker 9: he was just pulling all that shit out of his ass.

2485
02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:52,960
Speaker 9: Who knows. It seems pretty fanciful. Defense Secretary Pete Hegsath

2486
02:12:53,520 --> 02:12:56,640
Speaker 9: told his former co workers on Fox News that it's

2487
02:12:56,840 --> 02:13:02,440
Speaker 9: unnoe how long DC will be under this militarized occupation.

2488
02:13:02,960 --> 02:13:05,200
Speaker 13: He's got the guts to say, I'm going to federalize

2489
02:13:05,240 --> 02:13:07,080
Speaker 13: the police that are that don't work. I'm going to

2490
02:13:07,120 --> 02:13:09,080
Speaker 13: bring in the National Guard, I'm going to bring in

2491
02:13:09,360 --> 02:13:13,520
Speaker 13: federal marshals. I'm going to bring in the park police.

2492
02:13:14,600 --> 02:13:16,320
Speaker 12: What is the cost money?

2493
02:13:16,400 --> 02:13:16,520
Speaker 7: Right?

2494
02:13:17,480 --> 02:13:18,160
Speaker 6: It cost money?

2495
02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:21,880
Speaker 12: And the question is are you there for a year?

2496
02:13:21,960 --> 02:13:22,960
Speaker 12: Are you there for six months?

2497
02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:24,720
Speaker 6: And when the troops pull out?

2498
02:13:25,400 --> 02:13:25,960
Speaker 12: What happened?

2499
02:13:25,960 --> 02:13:27,440
Speaker 6: I would call this conditions based.

2500
02:13:27,440 --> 02:13:29,960
Speaker 13: I would say it's a situation where we're here to

2501
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:33,080
Speaker 13: support law enforcement. Uh and the more we can free

2502
02:13:33,080 --> 02:13:34,960
Speaker 13: them up to do their job, the more effective they

2503
02:13:34,960 --> 02:13:36,760
Speaker 13: can be, the more we can work it. I mean,

2504
02:13:36,800 --> 02:13:38,760
Speaker 13: this isn't my realm, but the justice system to make

2505
02:13:38,760 --> 02:13:41,360
Speaker 13: sure people who are arrested are actually locked up. That's

2506
02:13:41,360 --> 02:13:43,640
Speaker 13: why the president's talking about cash list, bear bail, and

2507
02:13:43,680 --> 02:13:46,160
Speaker 13: sanctuary cities. If you're illegal here in DC, that's going

2508
02:13:46,200 --> 02:13:48,600
Speaker 13: to be a problem. So all of these things that

2509
02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:51,120
Speaker 13: apply to law and order are are front and center

2510
02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:53,560
Speaker 13: for us. And I don't know, weeks, months, what will

2511
02:13:53,600 --> 02:13:55,480
Speaker 13: it take. That's the President's call, but we're going to

2512
02:13:55,480 --> 02:13:58,400
Speaker 13: be there for him to execute as swiftly as possible.

2513
02:13:58,080 --> 02:13:59,560
Speaker 9: The conditions based.

2514
02:14:00,040 --> 02:14:02,520
Speaker 8: It's real, like Warren Rock vibes.

2515
02:14:02,840 --> 02:14:06,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of those these days. Yeah, a lot

2516
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:10,000
Speaker 2: of mission accomplished coming out of the Trump administration too,

2517
02:14:10,560 --> 02:14:13,240
Speaker 2: because they've learned that, like there's no consequence in just

2518
02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:15,440
Speaker 2: saying like, yeah, we close the border and we won

2519
02:14:15,680 --> 02:14:20,440
Speaker 2: the borders won You know, it's done. No one's going

2520
02:14:20,480 --> 02:14:23,040
Speaker 2: to get to their base with a counter opinion that matters.

2521
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:26,120
Speaker 9: As bad as things are in DC right now, this

2522
02:14:26,320 --> 02:14:29,600
Speaker 9: is just the start of what they want to do.

2523
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:32,280
Speaker 9: Trump seeks to make a quote a quod example of DC,

2524
02:14:32,560 --> 02:14:35,960
Speaker 9: but soon wants to go further and attempt this in

2525
02:14:36,080 --> 02:14:39,680
Speaker 9: other cities, first naming places like Chicago and Los Angeles,

2526
02:14:40,080 --> 02:14:42,520
Speaker 9: and then later New York, Baltimore and Oakland.

2527
02:14:43,200 --> 02:14:45,360
Speaker 7: We have other cities that are very bad. New York

2528
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:49,400
Speaker 7: has a problem, and then you have, of course Baltimore

2529
02:14:49,480 --> 02:14:52,000
Speaker 7: and Oakland. We don't even mentioned that anymore. There's so

2530
02:14:52,280 --> 02:14:55,240
Speaker 7: they're so far gone. We're not gonna let it happen.

2531
02:14:55,240 --> 02:14:58,640
Speaker 7: We're not gonna lose our cities over this, and this

2532
02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:03,400
Speaker 7: will go further. We're starting very strongly with DC and

2533
02:15:03,400 --> 02:15:06,120
Speaker 7: we're going to clean it up real quick, pretty quickly.

2534
02:15:06,160 --> 02:15:07,120
Speaker 7: As they say.

2535
02:15:07,760 --> 02:15:10,400
Speaker 9: We're not going to lose our cities over this, that

2536
02:15:10,440 --> 02:15:12,640
Speaker 9: gets into like the core part of their framing. This,

2537
02:15:12,640 --> 02:15:16,280
Speaker 9: this idea that homeless people and criminals cough cough, black

2538
02:15:16,280 --> 02:15:20,000
Speaker 9: people are making us lose, like lose our cities. They're

2539
02:15:20,080 --> 02:15:23,919
Speaker 9: so far gone and this is necessary for such reasons.

2540
02:15:24,480 --> 02:15:26,480
Speaker 9: And like you can look at that pretty clearly. And

2541
02:15:26,560 --> 02:15:31,760
Speaker 9: he's naming like Oakland, Baltimore, Chicago, New York like it's

2542
02:15:31,800 --> 02:15:35,040
Speaker 9: it's it's not it's not very masked here. Yeah, I

2543
02:15:35,080 --> 02:15:38,680
Speaker 9: talked with DC resident bridget Todd this morning. We should

2544
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:43,600
Speaker 9: have an episode with her perspective coming out early next week,

2545
02:15:43,680 --> 02:15:44,640
Speaker 9: I think Sunday night.

2546
02:15:45,800 --> 02:15:48,640
Speaker 2: I wrote an episode early this year laying out, you know,

2547
02:15:48,880 --> 02:15:51,960
Speaker 2: some of my predictions for the year, and this along

2548
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:54,400
Speaker 2: with weird terrorism, we're two of like my big ones. Right,

2549
02:15:54,520 --> 02:15:58,560
Speaker 2: that that DC, in particular, he would be attempting to

2550
02:15:58,600 --> 02:16:03,040
Speaker 2: fill with soldiers and probably invoke the Insurrection Act.

2551
02:16:03,080 --> 02:16:03,160
Speaker 9: No.

2552
02:16:03,240 --> 02:16:05,960
Speaker 2: One thing that I have been surprised on is that

2553
02:16:06,320 --> 02:16:09,040
Speaker 2: they really do seem kind of hesitant to go full

2554
02:16:09,080 --> 02:16:12,879
Speaker 2: in on the Insurrection Act. And obviously I didn't expect

2555
02:16:13,320 --> 02:16:16,880
Speaker 2: LA to get troops deployed in it before DC, but

2556
02:16:17,160 --> 02:16:20,360
Speaker 2: just based on what they were saying, like after the election,

2557
02:16:20,800 --> 02:16:23,320
Speaker 2: kind of as he was preparing to take office, it

2558
02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:25,480
Speaker 2: was very clear that they were looking at DC as

2559
02:16:25,480 --> 02:16:27,760
Speaker 2: a focus, in part because they had, you know, during

2560
02:16:27,760 --> 02:16:31,560
Speaker 2: his last term as well. Right, this is not entirely unprecedented,

2561
02:16:32,120 --> 02:16:36,320
Speaker 2: but his desire to specifically not just take away any

2562
02:16:36,320 --> 02:16:38,800
Speaker 2: sort of autonomy that the city has and put it

2563
02:16:38,879 --> 02:16:41,680
Speaker 2: under direct federal control, but to see troops in the

2564
02:16:41,720 --> 02:16:45,480
Speaker 2: streets and federal agents in the streets is not surprising.

2565
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:48,080
Speaker 2: It's something that like, it's not even should be I

2566
02:16:48,160 --> 02:16:50,199
Speaker 2: honestly shouldn't even call it a prediction. It's just something

2567
02:16:50,240 --> 02:16:52,480
Speaker 2: he's been repeatedly saying he's going to do. So the

2568
02:16:52,520 --> 02:16:55,200
Speaker 2: fact that it's happening now, you know, the only thing

2569
02:16:55,240 --> 02:16:56,920
Speaker 2: that's surprising to me is that it happened in la

2570
02:16:57,040 --> 02:16:59,800
Speaker 2: first right, and that they really do seem to have

2571
02:17:00,400 --> 02:17:02,280
Speaker 2: and who knows, you know, this could change by the

2572
02:17:02,320 --> 02:17:04,000
Speaker 2: time the episode airs, but they do seem to have

2573
02:17:04,040 --> 02:17:06,440
Speaker 2: something of a I don't know if a block is

2574
02:17:06,480 --> 02:17:08,480
Speaker 2: the right way to phrase it, but they don't seem

2575
02:17:08,640 --> 02:17:11,320
Speaker 2: yet willing to go for the Insurrection Act. That still

2576
02:17:11,320 --> 02:17:13,440
Speaker 2: seems to be a bridge too far for some reason.

2577
02:17:13,959 --> 02:17:15,600
Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure why.

2578
02:17:15,920 --> 02:17:19,000
Speaker 8: I think I think they're worried about like massive backlash

2579
02:17:19,040 --> 02:17:21,720
Speaker 8: to it, like they're really unpopular.

2580
02:17:21,360 --> 02:17:23,880
Speaker 2: And right, I mean, they also just don't need to Yeah,

2581
02:17:24,080 --> 02:17:25,160
Speaker 2: that's that's a fair point.

2582
02:17:25,200 --> 02:17:28,880
Speaker 9: Gar they have this like Section seven forty to call on,

2583
02:17:29,280 --> 02:17:31,040
Speaker 9: and if Trump's going to try to get Congress to

2584
02:17:31,080 --> 02:17:33,160
Speaker 9: pass a new crime bill that can allow them to

2585
02:17:33,160 --> 02:17:35,240
Speaker 9: do this kind of stuff without having to use the

2586
02:17:35,280 --> 02:17:37,400
Speaker 9: Insurrection Act. So I think it's more of like a

2587
02:17:37,400 --> 02:17:38,959
Speaker 9: matter of necessity, Yeah.

2588
02:17:38,760 --> 02:17:40,600
Speaker 2: Just maybe just a risk they don't think they need

2589
02:17:40,640 --> 02:17:40,959
Speaker 2: to take.

2590
02:17:41,240 --> 02:17:43,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, and like who knows what type of weird shit

2591
02:17:43,600 --> 02:17:45,760
Speaker 9: they would try to push into a crime bill, including

2592
02:17:45,800 --> 02:17:48,760
Speaker 9: like exceptions for almost any city to have their police

2593
02:17:48,800 --> 02:17:49,880
Speaker 9: force be fetualized.

2594
02:17:50,480 --> 02:17:53,280
Speaker 8: I think the interesting part of this to me is

2595
02:17:53,400 --> 02:17:56,560
Speaker 8: also so that like it feels like a lot of

2596
02:17:56,640 --> 02:17:59,320
Speaker 8: what their politics is is like the spectacle of making

2597
02:17:59,360 --> 02:18:03,160
Speaker 8: it look like there's power there versus like actually doing

2598
02:18:03,200 --> 02:18:05,400
Speaker 8: the thing, because like you can't actually hold DC with

2599
02:18:05,440 --> 02:18:08,840
Speaker 8: eight hundred National guardsmen, and like you know, if you

2600
02:18:08,879 --> 02:18:10,440
Speaker 8: look at what happened in LA, they kind of like

2601
02:18:10,520 --> 02:18:13,560
Speaker 8: declared victory, but then the actual thing they came there

2602
02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:15,840
Speaker 8: to do, which was like do this like unpresented mass

2603
02:18:15,879 --> 02:18:19,000
Speaker 8: deportation with they did some of it, and then they

2604
02:18:19,040 --> 02:18:22,560
Speaker 8: got right out of the city. And so I think,

2605
02:18:22,959 --> 02:18:24,560
Speaker 8: I don't know, I think I think there's a kind

2606
02:18:24,560 --> 02:18:26,920
Speaker 8: of apocalyptic framing of this where it's like, Okay, well

2607
02:18:26,920 --> 02:18:30,000
Speaker 8: it's over, they can just do this. But also it

2608
02:18:30,040 --> 02:18:34,720
Speaker 8: has not been going well for them, and like was

2609
02:18:34,720 --> 02:18:36,880
Speaker 8: it from DC the video of the guy of the

2610
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:39,120
Speaker 8: guy just like throwing a sandwich at the National Guard

2611
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:43,160
Speaker 8: throwing a subway sandwich. Yes, yeah, right, like actual regular

2612
02:18:43,200 --> 02:18:46,800
Speaker 8: people really don't like them. And I think I think

2613
02:18:46,800 --> 02:18:49,080
Speaker 8: we're just going to see escalating resistance as more than

2614
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:52,320
Speaker 8: like fucking eighty guys get deployed there. And I don't know,

2615
02:18:52,360 --> 02:18:54,000
Speaker 8: it's unclear to me whether they can actually just like

2616
02:18:54,040 --> 02:18:56,480
Speaker 8: maintain this or if they're just gonna say, like we

2617
02:18:56,520 --> 02:19:01,039
Speaker 8: did it Joe in like thirty days and pull out right.

2618
02:19:01,640 --> 02:19:04,040
Speaker 9: That's kind of what some of the rhetoric looks like,

2619
02:19:04,200 --> 02:19:05,879
Speaker 9: is that they're going to try to arrest as many

2620
02:19:05,920 --> 02:19:08,440
Speaker 9: homeless people as they can, put them in jails, lock

2621
02:19:08,480 --> 02:19:10,480
Speaker 9: them up into hospitals, like the executive order that we

2622
02:19:10,520 --> 02:19:14,760
Speaker 9: mentioned a few weeks ago, Yeah, and like scare teenagers,

2623
02:19:15,000 --> 02:19:19,000
Speaker 9: and that's most of what they want out of this,

2624
02:19:19,160 --> 02:19:20,440
Speaker 9: and they're going to make a big show of it,

2625
02:19:20,480 --> 02:19:22,800
Speaker 9: and then they'll yeah, declare that the city is now safe,

2626
02:19:23,240 --> 02:19:26,000
Speaker 9: and then they'll use the legitimate crime stats showing crime

2627
02:19:26,040 --> 02:19:29,520
Speaker 9: falling and be like, look, we proved it. So that

2628
02:19:29,720 --> 02:19:32,160
Speaker 9: I think that is probably what it will what it

2629
02:19:32,200 --> 02:19:34,240
Speaker 9: will turn out to be. But if they try to

2630
02:19:34,240 --> 02:19:36,480
Speaker 9: push forward to a new crime bill like Trump is mentioning,

2631
02:19:36,879 --> 02:19:40,360
Speaker 9: or call it a national emergency to help strengthen his

2632
02:19:40,360 --> 02:19:42,920
Speaker 9: own powers. I think that's indications that this could have

2633
02:19:42,959 --> 02:19:47,720
Speaker 9: some longer lasting results. Let's go on and ad break

2634
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:52,560
Speaker 9: and return to talk terrif I suppose.

2635
02:19:52,560 --> 02:20:08,240
Speaker 15: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that and we're back.

2636
02:20:08,320 --> 02:20:11,440
Speaker 2: And obviously the big tariff news this week, as we'll

2637
02:20:11,440 --> 02:20:13,320
Speaker 2: get to, well, one of the pieces of big tariff

2638
02:20:13,360 --> 02:20:18,200
Speaker 2: news is that Trump has ordered another extension of the

2639
02:20:18,320 --> 02:20:22,640
Speaker 2: kind of delay before enacting tariffs against China. You might

2640
02:20:22,760 --> 02:20:26,519
Speaker 2: say Trump looked at his tariffs against China and decided

2641
02:20:27,280 --> 02:20:29,080
Speaker 2: tariff he no like it.

2642
02:20:29,360 --> 02:20:44,039
Speaker 16: Sorry live jazz right, jazz Bob, Sorry lot jazzy jazz bo.

2643
02:20:46,040 --> 02:20:49,520
Speaker 2: Okay, that was min true talk tariffs, honestly.

2644
02:20:49,680 --> 02:20:53,199
Speaker 8: Okay, So this is kind of a light tariff news week.

2645
02:20:53,360 --> 02:20:55,959
Speaker 8: There isn't that much also because if you want to

2646
02:20:55,959 --> 02:20:58,560
Speaker 8: hear me talking about tarriffs for like forty five fucking minutes,

2647
02:20:58,600 --> 02:21:00,000
Speaker 8: go listen to the episode on when.

2648
02:21:00,280 --> 02:21:02,720
Speaker 2: You just did a tariff episode. I just really wanted

2649
02:21:02,720 --> 02:21:04,600
Speaker 2: to lead into the tariff thing that way.

2650
02:21:04,760 --> 02:21:05,040
Speaker 8: Yeah.

2651
02:21:05,160 --> 02:21:07,920
Speaker 9: No, there is actually a very important piece of tariff

2652
02:21:07,959 --> 02:21:13,080
Speaker 9: news today. Arizona iced Tea is considering raising prices for

2653
02:21:13,120 --> 02:21:16,480
Speaker 9: the first time in over thirty years due to Trump's

2654
02:21:16,520 --> 02:21:18,760
Speaker 9: fifty percent aluminum tariffs.

2655
02:21:18,840 --> 02:21:21,240
Speaker 2: All right, everyone, get off the call right now. It

2656
02:21:21,360 --> 02:21:26,120
Speaker 2: is time to riot, find it building, burn it down. No,

2657
02:21:26,400 --> 02:21:28,320
Speaker 2: this is this is not a drill.

2658
02:21:28,600 --> 02:21:32,840
Speaker 9: Not acceptable. Arizona iced tea has been the shining beacon

2659
02:21:33,520 --> 02:21:40,320
Speaker 9: resisting inflation for decades. The proof proof that inflation is

2660
02:21:40,360 --> 02:21:45,320
Speaker 9: fake is on every Arizona iced tea can. And if

2661
02:21:45,360 --> 02:21:48,640
Speaker 9: Trump's gonna take it away from us, burn the whole

2662
02:21:48,680 --> 02:21:49,280
Speaker 9: system down.

2663
02:21:49,400 --> 02:21:49,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.

2664
02:21:50,280 --> 02:21:57,279
Speaker 9: I want CEO handing out cans to throw at your

2665
02:21:58,040 --> 02:22:02,720
Speaker 9: at your local government of choice to defend the ninety

2666
02:22:02,760 --> 02:22:06,240
Speaker 9: nine cent can. It's one of the most important aspects

2667
02:22:06,280 --> 02:22:07,199
Speaker 9: of American culture.

2668
02:22:07,320 --> 02:22:10,360
Speaker 2: It's the only thing left of the American dream. Yes,

2669
02:22:10,440 --> 02:22:13,360
Speaker 2: it's the one last piece of the American dream. Is

2670
02:22:13,400 --> 02:22:16,200
Speaker 2: a ninety nine cent can of Arizona iced tea. That's

2671
02:22:16,240 --> 02:22:17,120
Speaker 2: all we have left.

2672
02:22:17,320 --> 02:22:21,080
Speaker 9: Fifty percent aluminium tariffs will not take this away from

2673
02:22:21,160 --> 02:22:22,439
Speaker 9: US aluminium.

2674
02:22:22,560 --> 02:22:25,959
Speaker 2: Yeah no, just just move past it. May forget it.

2675
02:22:25,959 --> 02:22:26,920
Speaker 2: It's it's Canadian.

2676
02:22:27,560 --> 02:22:30,240
Speaker 8: Where are you going on? Okay? This is actually a

2677
02:22:30,240 --> 02:22:34,200
Speaker 8: good way to pivot into the just complete mess at

2678
02:22:34,200 --> 02:22:36,560
Speaker 8: the buer of labor statistics. So one of the things

2679
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:39,080
Speaker 8: that Trump has been really harping on is so the

2680
02:22:39,080 --> 02:22:42,000
Speaker 8: buer of labor Satistics published a jobs report and it

2681
02:22:42,080 --> 02:22:45,520
Speaker 8: was bad. And Trump has been absolutely furious about this

2682
02:22:45,640 --> 02:22:49,400
Speaker 8: ever since. And we will actually come back to I

2683
02:22:49,440 --> 02:22:52,119
Speaker 8: think we will literally come back to the Arizona Cans

2684
02:22:52,160 --> 02:22:56,879
Speaker 8: after this, thank God. But coma however, good lord, the

2685
02:22:56,920 --> 02:22:59,600
Speaker 8: people they are trying to put an office right now.

2686
02:23:00,120 --> 02:23:03,920
Speaker 8: I so long ago, in the galaxy far far away,

2687
02:23:03,920 --> 02:23:06,199
Speaker 8: I made an argument that the Trump regime is built

2688
02:23:06,440 --> 02:23:09,360
Speaker 8: on peer stupidity, that there is no plan at all.

2689
02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:11,760
Speaker 8: There is only you know, a raviting mall of the

2690
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:14,400
Speaker 8: oblivion of reason that obliterates all attempts to comprehend it

2691
02:23:14,440 --> 02:23:16,640
Speaker 8: and leaves only the words, yes, they really are that stupid.

2692
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:19,600
Speaker 8: And this argument was about a guy named Stephan Miron,

2693
02:23:19,959 --> 02:23:23,280
Speaker 8: who was Trump's share of the Council of Economic Advisors,

2694
02:23:23,320 --> 02:23:26,760
Speaker 8: and his plan to like make other countries pay taxes

2695
02:23:26,840 --> 02:23:30,600
Speaker 8: on holding US bonds, a thing that is just unequivocally

2696
02:23:30,600 --> 02:23:34,040
Speaker 8: good for the United States. And you know this is

2697
02:23:34,080 --> 02:23:35,600
Speaker 8: a plan. You can go back and listen to that

2698
02:23:35,640 --> 02:23:38,320
Speaker 8: episode from a few months ago. This is a plan

2699
02:23:38,440 --> 02:23:40,440
Speaker 8: so monumentally stupid that the only way I can think

2700
02:23:40,480 --> 02:23:42,320
Speaker 8: of describing it was like yelling at the moon to

2701
02:23:42,320 --> 02:23:44,880
Speaker 8: stop the tides. Anyways, Trump is trying to get that

2702
02:23:44,920 --> 02:23:48,440
Speaker 8: guy appointed to be one of the board members of

2703
02:23:48,280 --> 02:23:52,480
Speaker 8: the of the Federal Reserve. And the staggering thing about

2704
02:23:52,520 --> 02:23:55,760
Speaker 8: that isn't just that he's doing this. It's not like

2705
02:23:56,720 --> 02:23:59,360
Speaker 8: this is not the guy who's in the news right

2706
02:23:59,400 --> 02:24:02,280
Speaker 8: now for being unbelievably stupid and getting appointed to an

2707
02:24:02,320 --> 02:24:08,800
Speaker 8: extremely important structural agency of the American economy. Because they

2708
02:24:08,800 --> 02:24:12,120
Speaker 8: are trying to appoint senior economists at the Heritage Foundation

2709
02:24:12,720 --> 02:24:15,240
Speaker 8: E J and Tony as the head of the Bureau

2710
02:24:15,280 --> 02:24:17,200
Speaker 8: of Labor Statistics after they fired the last head for

2711
02:24:17,240 --> 02:24:21,320
Speaker 8: like releasing the job support Right, this guy, Okay, I

2712
02:24:21,760 --> 02:24:24,480
Speaker 8: make fun of economists for being dumb as shit all

2713
02:24:24,520 --> 02:24:28,560
Speaker 8: the time. He might legitimately be the stupidest economist I

2714
02:24:28,560 --> 02:24:31,680
Speaker 8: have ever seen. Just on blue Sky, like the day

2715
02:24:31,720 --> 02:24:35,600
Speaker 8: this was announced, right, I saw someone dunking on him

2716
02:24:35,879 --> 02:24:38,920
Speaker 8: for drawing a chart where he doesn't seem to understand

2717
02:24:38,920 --> 02:24:41,600
Speaker 8: that people retire and that when they retire they're not

2718
02:24:41,640 --> 02:24:44,080
Speaker 8: in the labor force anymore. Where he was doing this

2719
02:24:44,160 --> 02:24:46,120
Speaker 8: trend line that was based on the assumption that like

2720
02:24:46,320 --> 02:24:52,440
Speaker 8: people wouldn't retire. There are so many just incredibly basic

2721
02:24:52,480 --> 02:24:55,320
Speaker 8: economics since he doesn't understand. There's a post that I saw.

2722
02:24:55,360 --> 02:24:56,680
Speaker 8: This is the first one. That was the second one

2723
02:24:56,680 --> 02:24:58,280
Speaker 8: that I saw, the first one that I saw, And

2724
02:24:58,320 --> 02:24:59,800
Speaker 8: it's really funny because this is like in the New

2725
02:24:59,879 --> 02:25:01,680
Speaker 8: York Times now, but I just like saw this on

2726
02:25:01,760 --> 02:25:05,920
Speaker 8: Blue Sky. Was this post by this economist's name Joey Paulitano,

2727
02:25:06,000 --> 02:25:09,240
Speaker 8: who said, quote an economist's so dumb. I had to

2728
02:25:09,280 --> 02:25:11,600
Speaker 8: explain to him how the price index works. Will now

2729
02:25:11,680 --> 02:25:13,080
Speaker 8: lead the BLS.

2730
02:25:12,800 --> 02:25:14,119
Speaker 6: Kill me good.

2731
02:25:14,560 --> 02:25:15,760
Speaker 8: So he was doing his thing where he was like

2732
02:25:15,800 --> 02:25:18,440
Speaker 8: posting the price indexs and being like, prices aren't going up.

2733
02:25:18,440 --> 02:25:20,640
Speaker 8: But the thing about the import price index is that

2734
02:25:20,720 --> 02:25:23,920
Speaker 8: it calculates price is pre tariffs. Okay, so of course

2735
02:25:23,959 --> 02:25:28,119
Speaker 8: they wouldn't go up because they're not calculating the tariffs.

2736
02:25:28,879 --> 02:25:30,840
Speaker 8: And he was posting this as like, no, see, the

2737
02:25:31,600 --> 02:25:35,560
Speaker 8: terrorists don't do inflation. H he is he's being chosen

2738
02:25:35,600 --> 02:25:37,720
Speaker 8: for this position because he is just like a rigid

2739
02:25:37,760 --> 02:25:41,879
Speaker 8: ideologue of the Trump administration, right, but he's also he's

2740
02:25:41,920 --> 02:25:45,240
Speaker 8: so fucking stupid that things are happening. I have never

2741
02:25:45,360 --> 02:25:48,520
Speaker 8: seen with right wing economisy before where other right wing

2742
02:25:48,560 --> 02:25:51,160
Speaker 8: economists are going like, this guy can't be allowed to

2743
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:53,080
Speaker 8: take office. He's going to fuck everything up because he's

2744
02:25:53,120 --> 02:25:57,400
Speaker 8: too dumb. Like I am watching economists at the Manhattan Institute,

2745
02:25:57,480 --> 02:26:00,560
Speaker 8: which is an organization that was literally found in by

2746
02:26:00,640 --> 02:26:04,400
Speaker 8: Reagan's director of the CIA, William Casey, right like that.

2747
02:26:04,560 --> 02:26:07,680
Speaker 8: The Mahattan Institute is a right wing institute, right like again,

2748
02:26:08,000 --> 02:26:10,720
Speaker 8: this is this is this is an organization founded by

2749
02:26:11,320 --> 02:26:16,440
Speaker 8: Ronald fucking Reagan's CIA director. And I am watching those

2750
02:26:16,560 --> 02:26:19,039
Speaker 8: people go, this guy is too stupid to be put

2751
02:26:19,080 --> 02:26:23,280
Speaker 8: in office. Please don't put him there. This is unprecedented.

2752
02:26:23,320 --> 02:26:26,520
Speaker 8: I've never seen right wing economists break rank on the

2753
02:26:26,600 --> 02:26:28,720
Speaker 8: sort of like affirmative action program they all have for

2754
02:26:28,840 --> 02:26:36,599
Speaker 8: like really really underachieving right wing shithead economists. It's astonishing

2755
02:26:36,640 --> 02:26:38,320
Speaker 8: and so and the reason he's being brought in, and

2756
02:26:38,320 --> 02:26:39,920
Speaker 8: this is also the reason he was like the chief

2757
02:26:39,920 --> 02:26:42,520
Speaker 8: economist of the Herrer's Foundation, is that he has been

2758
02:26:42,640 --> 02:26:46,000
Speaker 8: calling for getting rid of the Bureau of Labor Statistics

2759
02:26:46,360 --> 02:26:48,720
Speaker 8: and also thinks that again like like Trump does it,

2760
02:26:48,720 --> 02:26:50,920
Speaker 8: they've been like cooking the books to make democrats look

2761
02:26:50,959 --> 02:26:54,560
Speaker 8: good and Republicans look bad. And so if he gets

2762
02:26:54,560 --> 02:26:56,400
Speaker 8: appointed and this is also like goes to the Senate,

2763
02:26:56,480 --> 02:27:01,000
Speaker 8: but him being appointed here effectively signals the end of

2764
02:27:01,040 --> 02:27:06,120
Speaker 8: independent economic data from the federal governments, hooray, which is

2765
02:27:07,080 --> 02:27:11,160
Speaker 8: a just catastrophic, Like every single part of the governments,

2766
02:27:11,200 --> 02:27:15,760
Speaker 8: every policy organization, every like every every single element, every corporation,

2767
02:27:15,879 --> 02:27:19,200
Speaker 8: every element of the entire US economic system relies on

2768
02:27:19,240 --> 02:27:23,200
Speaker 8: this data being nonpartisan and accurate. And it's obviously like, yeah,

2769
02:27:23,240 --> 02:27:26,520
Speaker 8: all like all data is political, but like it being

2770
02:27:26,600 --> 02:27:30,320
Speaker 8: like reasonably accurate is like the defining thing about the

2771
02:27:30,400 --> 02:27:33,160
Speaker 8: US economy is that this data is there and functions

2772
02:27:33,160 --> 02:27:34,800
Speaker 8: and this is what everyone based their decisions off of.

2773
02:27:36,000 --> 02:27:38,080
Speaker 8: And he very much looks like he wants to just

2774
02:27:38,200 --> 02:27:41,000
Speaker 8: end that. And I want to close by noting that're

2775
02:27:41,000 --> 02:27:42,520
Speaker 8: like one of you know, at the very end of

2776
02:27:42,560 --> 02:27:44,600
Speaker 8: the Soviet Union, right, one of the things that was

2777
02:27:45,600 --> 02:27:48,160
Speaker 8: taken as like the giant signal that things were going

2778
02:27:48,200 --> 02:27:51,360
Speaker 8: to shit there was that like their leadership by like

2779
02:27:51,400 --> 02:27:55,359
Speaker 8: the like the mid late eighties was deploying satellites specifically

2780
02:27:55,440 --> 02:27:57,720
Speaker 8: so they could use satellite imagery to check the output

2781
02:27:57,840 --> 02:28:01,360
Speaker 8: of their own factories because there their control of the

2782
02:28:01,400 --> 02:28:05,480
Speaker 8: economic statistics had become so like just annihilated right by

2783
02:28:05,560 --> 02:28:08,840
Speaker 8: just like mass falsification, their loss of control over the

2784
02:28:08,879 --> 02:28:10,720
Speaker 8: standards that their measuring regime was seen as like, this

2785
02:28:10,760 --> 02:28:13,120
Speaker 8: is the regime falling apart. And we are like eight

2786
02:28:13,120 --> 02:28:15,720
Speaker 8: months out from Google doing that shit, right, Like, we

2787
02:28:15,800 --> 02:28:18,800
Speaker 8: are not very far out from companies doing a thing

2788
02:28:18,879 --> 02:28:21,440
Speaker 8: you have to do with like remote provinces in China

2789
02:28:21,480 --> 02:28:24,720
Speaker 8: where the fault were, Like there's data falsification of Like okay,

2790
02:28:24,760 --> 02:28:28,520
Speaker 8: we're like using satellite data to like measure freight loads

2791
02:28:28,680 --> 02:28:32,320
Speaker 8: and like measure electrical consumption and like figuring out what

2792
02:28:32,360 --> 02:28:34,280
Speaker 8: factories are open at night to figure out how much

2793
02:28:34,440 --> 02:28:39,320
Speaker 8: that's You know that that is something that is very

2794
02:28:39,400 --> 02:28:42,000
Speaker 8: much in our future. I'm only kind of joking about

2795
02:28:42,000 --> 02:28:44,120
Speaker 8: the satellite shit. I think we probably will live to

2796
02:28:44,160 --> 02:28:46,920
Speaker 8: see that, assuming this thing goes through, assuming they remember

2797
02:28:46,920 --> 02:28:50,520
Speaker 8: how to launch satellites. Well it won't. It won't be them,

2798
02:28:50,560 --> 02:28:53,880
Speaker 8: It'll be it'll be like corporations doing this. Oh sure, sure, yeah,

2799
02:28:54,000 --> 02:28:55,680
Speaker 8: like you using the row satellite grads and.

2800
02:28:55,720 --> 02:28:57,160
Speaker 9: I mean I can, I can, I can see the

2801
02:28:57,280 --> 02:29:00,800
Speaker 9: uh yeah, the Blue Origin satellites launching. To keep track

2802
02:29:00,840 --> 02:29:04,000
Speaker 9: on to keep track of Amazon's efficiency.

2803
02:29:04,360 --> 02:29:09,119
Speaker 8: Yea yeah, oh good lord. Yeah. I want to close

2804
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:11,320
Speaker 8: on like one final brief note, which I've said this before,

2805
02:29:11,400 --> 02:29:13,480
Speaker 8: but I want to say it again. This is the

2806
02:29:13,560 --> 02:29:15,400
Speaker 8: exact thing that but like one is. One of the

2807
02:29:15,440 --> 02:29:17,760
Speaker 8: big things that brought down the military keatorship in Brazil

2808
02:29:18,320 --> 02:29:20,760
Speaker 8: was that they were lying about inflation data. You know,

2809
02:29:20,800 --> 02:29:24,119
Speaker 8: the thing about inflation is that you can just see

2810
02:29:24,120 --> 02:29:26,160
Speaker 8: the price of the Arizona can go up.

2811
02:29:26,360 --> 02:29:28,320
Speaker 2: Just like you can see Huey Dewey and who we

2812
02:29:28,440 --> 02:29:33,440
Speaker 2: expand and our favorite inflation fetish pornography. They don't give

2813
02:29:33,520 --> 02:29:38,440
Speaker 2: me Hazard pay for this. They really should Hazard. I

2814
02:29:38,560 --> 02:29:40,000
Speaker 2: feel like this is a bonus.

2815
02:29:41,840 --> 02:29:44,040
Speaker 8: Oh I guess this is also mentioned. Part of the

2816
02:29:44,040 --> 02:29:46,600
Speaker 8: reason they're trying to put this like absolute clown on

2817
02:29:46,760 --> 02:29:48,520
Speaker 8: the board of the Federal Reserve is that they want

2818
02:29:48,600 --> 02:29:51,040
Speaker 8: to replace the chairman of the Federal Reserve so that

2819
02:29:51,160 --> 02:29:55,480
Speaker 8: Trump can just directly set interest rates. That's a looming

2820
02:29:55,560 --> 02:29:57,280
Speaker 8: crisis that is coming.

2821
02:29:57,400 --> 02:29:59,600
Speaker 9: Trump is threatening to sue the head of the Federal

2822
02:29:59,640 --> 02:30:03,040
Speaker 9: Reserve right now. Oh yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, he

2823
02:30:03,160 --> 02:30:03,680
Speaker 9: is yep.

2824
02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:07,439
Speaker 2: He sharees, which is a fast It's gonna be amazing precedent.

2825
02:30:07,680 --> 02:30:08,640
Speaker 2: I am excited.

2826
02:30:08,879 --> 02:30:11,880
Speaker 8: Oh, it's it's astonishing. I don't know. It's been very

2827
02:30:11,959 --> 02:30:16,640
Speaker 8: funny because a lot of the kind of internal publications

2828
02:30:17,160 --> 02:30:20,240
Speaker 8: from like the banks about this have been like, ah,

2829
02:30:20,360 --> 02:30:22,119
Speaker 8: if you're a Boostero and Powell, it's not that big

2830
02:30:22,160 --> 02:30:25,119
Speaker 8: of a deal. Like the banks can like autonomously said

2831
02:30:25,160 --> 02:30:27,600
Speaker 8: interest race technically without the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

2832
02:30:27,840 --> 02:30:31,280
Speaker 8: And it's like, Okay, I don't think you understand how

2833
02:30:31,360 --> 02:30:34,680
Speaker 8: bad this is going to get. So we're still we're

2834
02:30:34,680 --> 02:30:36,880
Speaker 8: still in cope. I don't know what we'll report to

2835
02:30:36,920 --> 02:30:39,560
Speaker 8: you back on the show when all of that enormous

2836
02:30:39,600 --> 02:30:40,600
Speaker 8: clusterfug blows up.

2837
02:30:42,080 --> 02:30:45,120
Speaker 9: Yay, before we go and break again, I'd like to

2838
02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:47,680
Speaker 9: have an update for one of the stories we talked

2839
02:30:47,680 --> 02:30:51,120
Speaker 9: about last week, the Texas Democrats fleeing to Illinois and

2840
02:30:51,160 --> 02:30:54,480
Speaker 9: then later to California to brick orm to stop or

2841
02:30:54,520 --> 02:30:59,720
Speaker 9: delay a redistricting vote in Texas. And now Texas Democrats

2842
02:30:59,760 --> 02:31:03,640
Speaker 9: are to come back home, possibly as soon as this weekend. Yes,

2843
02:31:03,879 --> 02:31:07,760
Speaker 9: after Governor Greg Abbott ended the special session to redraw

2844
02:31:07,840 --> 02:31:11,160
Speaker 9: the congressional map, which would add five new Republican House

2845
02:31:11,240 --> 02:31:15,840
Speaker 9: seats with some Democrats expected to return very soon. Nothing

2846
02:31:16,120 --> 02:31:19,480
Speaker 9: stops Abbot from just calling another special session once the

2847
02:31:19,520 --> 02:31:22,800
Speaker 9: Democrats return. In fact, he has said that that's exactly

2848
02:31:22,879 --> 02:31:23,400
Speaker 9: what he's gonna do.

2849
02:31:23,480 --> 02:31:26,840
Speaker 2: He's definitely going to do that, Yes, and add in.

2850
02:31:27,000 --> 02:31:30,920
Speaker 9: New legislation to convince some of them to stay. So

2851
02:31:31,120 --> 02:31:33,080
Speaker 9: we will see that they can just leave the state

2852
02:31:33,160 --> 02:31:36,880
Speaker 9: again if they want to. H unclear, if unclear if

2853
02:31:36,920 --> 02:31:40,599
Speaker 9: they will. I mean, other states are threatening retaliatory redistricting,

2854
02:31:41,080 --> 02:31:45,200
Speaker 9: specifically the governors of New York and California. This is

2855
02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:48,640
Speaker 9: going to be a really annoying mess with different with

2856
02:31:48,760 --> 02:31:52,440
Speaker 9: different states all redrawing their maps just to create some

2857
02:31:52,600 --> 02:31:55,760
Speaker 9: kind of congressional balance. Of Florida also threatening to do

2858
02:31:55,840 --> 02:31:58,000
Speaker 9: the same. So we will we will see how this

2859
02:31:58,080 --> 02:32:01,400
Speaker 9: develops over time. But yeah, Texas Dems may be home

2860
02:32:01,600 --> 02:32:02,840
Speaker 9: sooner than expected.

2861
02:32:03,360 --> 02:32:05,080
Speaker 8: It's so cool that on the one hand you have

2862
02:32:05,200 --> 02:32:08,480
Speaker 8: the Republicans creating the image of tyranny and then expanding

2863
02:32:08,480 --> 02:32:10,280
Speaker 8: their actual power, and then you have the Democrats doing

2864
02:32:10,320 --> 02:32:12,680
Speaker 8: the image of resistance and then giving in.

2865
02:32:13,440 --> 02:32:16,280
Speaker 9: I mean, they're not really giving in yet. Yeah, we'll see,

2866
02:32:16,360 --> 02:32:18,760
Speaker 9: we'll see, but they are going home because this session

2867
02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:22,480
Speaker 9: is ended. Yeah, What still remains to be seen is

2868
02:32:22,520 --> 02:32:25,160
Speaker 9: if they will flee the state a second time, like

2869
02:32:25,360 --> 02:32:26,080
Speaker 9: a week later.

2870
02:32:26,320 --> 02:32:29,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, which who knows. I have little faith in that,

2871
02:32:29,640 --> 02:32:30,320
Speaker 8: but we'll see.

2872
02:32:30,600 --> 02:32:33,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm not sure at this point. Yeah, but I

2873
02:32:33,280 --> 02:32:36,400
Speaker 9: thought we should include that small update there, and now

2874
02:32:36,600 --> 02:32:50,160
Speaker 9: we should include a secondary ad break. Okay, we are back.

2875
02:32:52,240 --> 02:32:56,480
Speaker 9: In other news. Last week, on Friday, a mass shooting

2876
02:32:56,720 --> 02:33:02,280
Speaker 9: was targeted against the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. The

2877
02:33:02,440 --> 02:33:05,880
Speaker 9: thirty year old shooter broke into his father's safe to retree.

2878
02:33:06,040 --> 02:33:09,879
Speaker 9: Five firearms were then used in the attack. The shooting

2879
02:33:09,920 --> 02:33:13,320
Speaker 9: started at a CBS across from the CDC main entrance.

2880
02:33:13,800 --> 02:33:17,520
Speaker 9: Shooter then fired upon six buildings on the CDC campus,

2881
02:33:17,600 --> 02:33:19,480
Speaker 9: with the total of five hundred rounds being fired during

2882
02:33:19,520 --> 02:33:24,480
Speaker 9: the incident, with two hundred shots hitting CDC buildings. One

2883
02:33:24,640 --> 02:33:27,920
Speaker 9: Decab County Police officer was killed. The shooter later shot

2884
02:33:28,000 --> 02:33:33,520
Speaker 9: and killed himself. Police were contacted several weeks before the

2885
02:33:33,600 --> 02:33:39,160
Speaker 9: shooting by unknown individuals due to quote recently verbalized thoughts

2886
02:33:39,280 --> 02:33:43,960
Speaker 9: of suicide. According to the GBI director Chris Hosey, this

2887
02:33:44,200 --> 02:33:48,400
Speaker 9: was about the soon to become shooter. Police found written

2888
02:33:48,480 --> 02:33:54,480
Speaker 9: documents from the shooter expressing distrust in the COVID nineteen vaccine.

2889
02:33:55,200 --> 02:33:58,520
Speaker 9: Georgia Bureau of Investigation Director Josey said the shooter quote

2890
02:33:58,840 --> 02:34:02,160
Speaker 9: wanted to make the PUBLICBLIC aware of his discontent with

2891
02:34:02,480 --> 02:34:07,119
Speaker 9: and distrust of the vaccine unquote, with sources who knew

2892
02:34:07,200 --> 02:34:10,879
Speaker 9: him telling ABC News he blamed the vaccine for making

2893
02:34:11,000 --> 02:34:14,480
Speaker 9: him sick and depressed. The CDC director sent a letter

2894
02:34:14,600 --> 02:34:17,480
Speaker 9: to its ten thousand employees earlier this week saying, quote

2895
02:34:17,640 --> 02:34:21,320
Speaker 9: the dangers of misinformation and its promulgation has now led

2896
02:34:21,560 --> 02:34:26,760
Speaker 9: to deadly consequences unquote. The Monday after the shooting, RFK

2897
02:34:26,959 --> 02:34:32,840
Speaker 9: Junior oh No, who recently defunded mRNA Vaccines, visited the

2898
02:34:32,959 --> 02:34:35,680
Speaker 9: CDC campus to express condolences for the family of the

2899
02:34:35,760 --> 02:34:38,920
Speaker 9: officer killed, as well as to quote offers support to

2900
02:34:38,959 --> 02:34:41,400
Speaker 9: all of the CDC employees who are a part of

2901
02:34:41,520 --> 02:34:45,080
Speaker 9: a shining star health agency around the world to quote

2902
02:34:45,120 --> 02:34:48,480
Speaker 9: from an interview he gave with SCRIPTS News. When Kennedy

2903
02:34:48,640 --> 02:34:51,160
Speaker 9: was asked what would be done to stop the spread

2904
02:34:51,200 --> 02:34:54,680
Speaker 9: of vaccine misinformation to prevent future incidents like this shooting,

2905
02:34:55,120 --> 02:34:58,879
Speaker 9: Kennedy said, quote people can ask questions without being penalized

2906
02:34:59,280 --> 02:35:02,400
Speaker 9: and quote we don't know enough about what the motive

2907
02:35:02,680 --> 02:35:07,680
Speaker 9: was of this individual unquote hate that. That's all pretty

2908
02:35:07,920 --> 02:35:12,400
Speaker 9: pretty disgusting seeing narratives that RFK Junior has promoted for

2909
02:35:12,520 --> 02:35:15,600
Speaker 9: his own profit for years yep being used to justify

2910
02:35:15,640 --> 02:35:18,000
Speaker 9: as shooting targeting the CDC headquarters.

2911
02:35:18,480 --> 02:35:22,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's you know, it's kind of unclear exactly

2912
02:35:23,000 --> 02:35:26,560
Speaker 2: what because it seems like he was shooting at the buildings.

2913
02:35:27,200 --> 02:35:29,600
Speaker 2: He fired at least two hundred rounds, roughly two hundred

2914
02:35:29,640 --> 02:35:32,279
Speaker 2: rounds into the buildings, about five hundred rounds fighter total.

2915
02:35:32,480 --> 02:35:34,680
Speaker 2: But I've seen people say that means he was like

2916
02:35:35,040 --> 02:35:37,360
Speaker 2: shot five hundred He did not a lot of those

2917
02:35:37,440 --> 02:35:39,560
Speaker 2: rounds are the police. No, that's the toast of them

2918
02:35:39,680 --> 02:35:41,680
Speaker 2: or the police. You know, two or three hundred rounds

2919
02:35:42,120 --> 02:35:44,760
Speaker 2: would not at all be odd for how many police

2920
02:35:44,800 --> 02:35:46,480
Speaker 2: would fire in response to a guy like this who

2921
02:35:46,600 --> 02:35:49,520
Speaker 2: is just bag dumping, you know, into a building. It's

2922
02:35:49,600 --> 02:35:52,800
Speaker 2: unclear to me did he see people through the windows

2923
02:35:52,879 --> 02:35:54,880
Speaker 2: and was he trying to hit them or was he

2924
02:35:55,080 --> 02:35:57,960
Speaker 2: just shooting at the buildings to make a statement. The

2925
02:35:58,040 --> 02:36:00,600
Speaker 2: fact that he did shoot and kill a police PAE officer,

2926
02:36:00,760 --> 02:36:04,480
Speaker 2: presumably with intent, makes it more likely that maybe he

2927
02:36:04,879 --> 02:36:07,760
Speaker 2: was trying to hit people inside the building. I don't

2928
02:36:07,760 --> 02:36:09,480
Speaker 2: know how much it's worth splitting hairs here, but I

2929
02:36:09,520 --> 02:36:11,960
Speaker 2: am like it is kind of unclear to me. Was

2930
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:14,160
Speaker 2: his goal more to make a statement or was he

2931
02:36:14,320 --> 02:36:17,480
Speaker 2: hoping to like rack up a body count of CDC

2932
02:36:17,680 --> 02:36:20,119
Speaker 2: employees and this was just as close as he could get.

2933
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:22,560
Speaker 2: I don't think we really know. Maybe we probably never will.

2934
02:36:23,440 --> 02:36:26,480
Speaker 9: It seems he had trouble accessing or getting close to

2935
02:36:27,040 --> 02:36:30,120
Speaker 9: some buildings on the CDC campus. This was mostly done

2936
02:36:30,280 --> 02:36:33,359
Speaker 9: from the CVS, which he at a certain point, according

2937
02:36:33,400 --> 02:36:35,960
Speaker 9: to police reports, he could not get out of. He

2938
02:36:36,160 --> 02:36:40,040
Speaker 9: was locked inside the CVS what and tried to exit

2939
02:36:40,160 --> 02:36:44,400
Speaker 9: by shooting like the windows and doors, and was unable

2940
02:36:44,440 --> 02:36:46,080
Speaker 9: to and then killed himself inside.

2941
02:36:46,520 --> 02:36:47,560
Speaker 8: Huh jeez.

2942
02:36:48,040 --> 02:36:50,400
Speaker 9: So it is a kind of odd situation. We don't

2943
02:36:50,400 --> 02:36:52,880
Speaker 9: have a clear idea yet because this just happened a

2944
02:36:52,879 --> 02:36:55,080
Speaker 9: few days ago. We don't have a clear idea yet

2945
02:36:55,120 --> 02:36:58,800
Speaker 9: of like the exact on the ground situation, just these

2946
02:36:58,879 --> 02:37:03,280
Speaker 9: kind of general general facts about which buildings were hit

2947
02:37:03,360 --> 02:37:05,920
Speaker 9: and how many shots were fired. And then the anti

2948
02:37:06,120 --> 02:37:10,880
Speaker 9: VAXX opinions and writing found allegedly in his home.

2949
02:37:11,080 --> 02:37:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so We'll say more will come out about this

2950
02:37:14,879 --> 02:37:17,920
Speaker 2: in time, but I mean the basics are pretty clear,

2951
02:37:18,080 --> 02:37:21,360
Speaker 2: which is that this is the natural extension of decades

2952
02:37:21,440 --> 02:37:25,000
Speaker 2: of anti vaccine rhetoric and specifically the last several years

2953
02:37:25,040 --> 02:37:28,199
Speaker 2: of OURFK relentlessly attacking the CDC.

2954
02:37:29,120 --> 02:37:31,160
Speaker 9: Now the piece of news this week that I should mention,

2955
02:37:31,320 --> 02:37:32,880
Speaker 9: though frankly, we don't have much to stay on this

2956
02:37:33,000 --> 02:37:35,760
Speaker 9: because it's unclear this will actually turn into anything real

2957
02:37:35,920 --> 02:37:39,560
Speaker 9: or not. But later this fall, the Supreme Court will

2958
02:37:39,800 --> 02:37:42,920
Speaker 9: consider whether to take a case that could overturn the

2959
02:37:43,040 --> 02:37:47,120
Speaker 9: national ruling on gay marriage. This specific case that they

2960
02:37:47,160 --> 02:37:49,959
Speaker 9: would be considering has not done very well in all

2961
02:37:50,200 --> 02:37:52,720
Speaker 9: lower federal courts, which is why it's been appealed to

2962
02:37:52,879 --> 02:37:56,760
Speaker 9: this level. The legal justifications used for the First Amendment

2963
02:37:57,080 --> 02:38:00,520
Speaker 9: have not made much progress in federal appeals courts so far.

2964
02:38:01,200 --> 02:38:04,440
Speaker 9: If the case does get chosen, it would be primarily

2965
02:38:04,560 --> 02:38:08,960
Speaker 9: for like ideological reasons based on specific new Supreme Court justices.

2966
02:38:09,280 --> 02:38:13,680
Speaker 9: But it is still unclear if this will get accepted,

2967
02:38:13,760 --> 02:38:17,720
Speaker 9: and I'm thinking not super likely. I don't think this

2968
02:38:17,840 --> 02:38:20,920
Speaker 9: is something that we need to have tons of panic

2969
02:38:20,920 --> 02:38:21,720
Speaker 9: about at the moment.

2970
02:38:22,879 --> 02:38:25,480
Speaker 8: So something that I mean, I don't know if panic's

2971
02:38:25,520 --> 02:38:28,040
Speaker 8: the right word, but did actually happen and is very bad?

2972
02:38:28,879 --> 02:38:29,080
Speaker 13: Is that?

2973
02:38:29,640 --> 02:38:32,240
Speaker 8: So Trump issued in the Executive Order a while back

2974
02:38:32,320 --> 02:38:34,760
Speaker 8: about like getting rid of collective bargaining rights for a

2975
02:38:34,800 --> 02:38:37,320
Speaker 8: bunch of different kinds of government employees, like nominally under

2976
02:38:37,360 --> 02:38:40,760
Speaker 8: the auspices of national security. There'd been a whole bunch

2977
02:38:40,800 --> 02:38:43,040
Speaker 8: of court cases kind of winding the way through the courts,

2978
02:38:43,720 --> 02:38:47,640
Speaker 8: but last week, the VA became the first government agency

2979
02:38:47,680 --> 02:38:49,640
Speaker 8: to actually do it. They just straight up got rid

2980
02:38:49,640 --> 02:38:52,200
Speaker 8: of the union contracts for three hundred and seventy seven

2981
02:38:52,280 --> 02:38:55,320
Speaker 8: thousand workers. Like three hundred and seventy seven thousand workers

2982
02:38:55,400 --> 02:38:57,600
Speaker 8: is an astonishing number of workers to just straight up

2983
02:38:57,640 --> 02:39:00,200
Speaker 8: the union doesn't exist the next day, Yeah right, they

2984
02:39:00,240 --> 02:39:04,280
Speaker 8: just their contract sharp being recognized. This in and of

2985
02:39:04,360 --> 02:39:08,359
Speaker 8: itself is really stunning, and also the lack of response

2986
02:39:08,520 --> 02:39:11,520
Speaker 8: by the union movement, especially considering the number of people involved.

2987
02:39:11,600 --> 02:39:15,640
Speaker 8: It's just been like strongly worded statements and encouragements for

2988
02:39:15,720 --> 02:39:18,520
Speaker 8: the Democrats to pass a bill through Congress to recognize

2989
02:39:18,520 --> 02:39:22,960
Speaker 8: collective bargaining rights, which speaks really really ill of the

2990
02:39:23,040 --> 02:39:26,160
Speaker 8: broader labor movement that like, again, they just took away

2991
02:39:26,240 --> 02:39:30,359
Speaker 8: the unions of almost four hundred thousand people, and Organized

2992
02:39:30,400 --> 02:39:33,280
Speaker 8: Labor's collective response was just to kind of shrug. So

2993
02:39:33,400 --> 02:39:37,039
Speaker 8: that's really fucking bleak. It's probably going to be spreading

2994
02:39:37,160 --> 02:39:42,600
Speaker 8: to more agencies as this plays out. Yeah, it's really

2995
02:39:42,879 --> 02:39:44,680
Speaker 8: I don't know. And even the language unions of using

2996
02:39:44,680 --> 02:39:46,360
Speaker 8: it talk about it. They're like, oh, this is union

2997
02:39:46,400 --> 02:39:48,960
Speaker 8: busting for speaking out against anti worker policies, and it's like, no,

2998
02:39:49,040 --> 02:39:51,000
Speaker 8: it's union busting because they literally got rid of the

2999
02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:54,160
Speaker 8: unions of three hundred and seventy seven thousand people. What

3000
02:39:54,480 --> 02:39:57,360
Speaker 8: are we doing here? I don't know. I'm gonna have

3001
02:39:57,840 --> 02:40:01,600
Speaker 8: more on this as I guess more word from union sources.

3002
02:40:01,680 --> 02:40:05,880
Speaker 8: There's a staggering lack of information about this and people

3003
02:40:06,040 --> 02:40:08,680
Speaker 8: are being slow to respond, but I want to mention

3004
02:40:08,800 --> 02:40:13,400
Speaker 8: it here because it's devastating and hideous and yeah, it's

3005
02:40:13,800 --> 02:40:14,720
Speaker 8: real fucking bad.

3006
02:40:15,480 --> 02:40:18,959
Speaker 9: Before we close this episode, James Stout has a special

3007
02:40:19,000 --> 02:40:23,240
Speaker 9: report on immigration and information about a fundraiser.

3008
02:40:23,600 --> 02:40:27,440
Speaker 4: James, all right, So immigration report. With the change of

3009
02:40:27,520 --> 02:40:30,600
Speaker 4: the month, children across the country are returning to schools.

3010
02:40:31,120 --> 02:40:34,720
Speaker 4: This means that ICE agents are also returning to enforcement

3011
02:40:34,800 --> 02:40:37,680
Speaker 4: at schools, not just ICE agents as we know, other

3012
02:40:37,760 --> 02:40:42,440
Speaker 4: federal agents' board patrol ATFDA, etc. Are all taking part

3013
02:40:42,480 --> 02:40:45,600
Speaker 4: in immigration enforcement now they're no longer restrained by the

3014
02:40:45,640 --> 02:40:50,080
Speaker 4: sensitive Places doctrine, which previously stopped them from doing enforcement

3015
02:40:50,160 --> 02:40:53,120
Speaker 4: at schools and churches and other places where it's generally

3016
02:40:53,200 --> 02:40:56,600
Speaker 4: considered not worth it because doing so obviously provides a

3017
02:40:56,640 --> 02:40:59,240
Speaker 4: massive disincentive for family to take their children to school.

3018
02:40:59,320 --> 02:41:04,080
Speaker 4: In this instance, in Chula Vista, second largest city in

3019
02:41:04,120 --> 02:41:07,080
Speaker 4: the County of San Diego, ice detained a parent a

3020
02:41:07,200 --> 02:41:10,320
Speaker 4: block away from a school, leaving two young children in

3021
02:41:10,400 --> 02:41:13,199
Speaker 4: the car. Like most schools in the area, Tula Vista

3022
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:16,440
Speaker 4: Elementary School District will not allow ice on campus without

3023
02:41:16,480 --> 02:41:19,760
Speaker 4: a warrant unless there's an active emergency. Just to explain

3024
02:41:19,800 --> 02:41:21,880
Speaker 4: that active emergency thing a bit I guess, for instance,

3025
02:41:21,920 --> 02:41:24,760
Speaker 4: in Uvalde, because all the local cops were cowards and

3026
02:41:24,840 --> 02:41:28,040
Speaker 4: stood outside, it was actually a border patrol team or

3027
02:41:28,080 --> 02:41:31,600
Speaker 4: attacked specifically who killed the shooter there, So that would

3028
02:41:31,600 --> 02:41:33,760
Speaker 4: be an example of when immigration agents might enter a

3029
02:41:33,800 --> 02:41:36,800
Speaker 4: campus during an active emergency. In Los Angeles, a fifteen

3030
02:41:36,879 --> 02:41:40,560
Speaker 4: year old boy with disabilities was pulled from a car, handcuffed,

3031
02:41:40,600 --> 02:41:44,800
Speaker 4: and detained by federal agents at gunpoint. He was accompanying

3032
02:41:44,840 --> 02:41:47,120
Speaker 4: a relative who was reaistering at the school, and he

3033
02:41:47,200 --> 02:41:49,840
Speaker 4: was in the car with his grandmother. The agents, who

3034
02:41:49,879 --> 02:41:52,480
Speaker 4: appeared to be bored patrol from videos i've seen, release

3035
02:41:52,560 --> 02:41:56,800
Speaker 4: the boy after intervention by school staff and left live

3036
02:41:56,879 --> 02:42:00,600
Speaker 4: ammunition on the sidewalk. For some reason, these look like

3037
02:42:00,680 --> 02:42:03,280
Speaker 4: five five six rounds from the pictures I've seen, I'm

3038
02:42:03,320 --> 02:42:07,480
Speaker 4: guessing it's just terrible weapons handling procedures here. It appears

3039
02:42:07,520 --> 02:42:09,640
Speaker 4: that this boy was not the person they were looking for,

3040
02:42:09,760 --> 02:42:14,000
Speaker 4: but nonetheless they've obviously horrifically traumatized this young man for

3041
02:42:14,520 --> 02:42:18,960
Speaker 4: no good reason. In response, LA Unified School District is

3042
02:42:19,080 --> 02:42:25,240
Speaker 4: ramping up safety patrols. These include volunteers, teachers, and school cops. Apparently, obviously,

3043
02:42:25,320 --> 02:42:29,800
Speaker 4: school cops cannot directly prevent immigration enforcement officers from doing

3044
02:42:29,840 --> 02:42:33,960
Speaker 4: immigration enforcement, but they can notify people of their presence,

3045
02:42:34,400 --> 02:42:37,160
Speaker 4: and they're trying to have safe zones around schools so

3046
02:42:37,240 --> 02:42:39,120
Speaker 4: that people can either safety walk to school or safety

3047
02:42:39,160 --> 02:42:42,760
Speaker 4: drop their kids off. They're also changing their bus programs.

3048
02:42:43,240 --> 02:42:46,840
Speaker 4: Buses are part of school district's property right, so just

3049
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:49,400
Speaker 4: as ice could not enter a school without a warrant,

3050
02:42:49,440 --> 02:42:51,160
Speaker 4: nor could they enter that bus without a warrant, and

3051
02:42:51,200 --> 02:42:54,240
Speaker 4: it would be within the training of the bus driver

3052
02:42:54,480 --> 02:42:57,199
Speaker 4: to deny them access if they did not have a warrant.

3053
02:42:58,240 --> 02:43:00,680
Speaker 4: So the bus would potentially be a much safer way

3054
02:43:00,800 --> 02:43:02,400
Speaker 4: for people to get to school that are having their

3055
02:43:02,480 --> 02:43:05,280
Speaker 4: parents drive them. And so what la USD is doing

3056
02:43:05,400 --> 02:43:08,880
Speaker 4: is expanding their bus programs in LA. I've seen a

3057
02:43:08,879 --> 02:43:11,600
Speaker 4: lot of information on this in the resource guide that

3058
02:43:11,680 --> 02:43:14,240
Speaker 4: was published by the LA Office of Immigration Affairs.

3059
02:43:14,560 --> 02:43:16,960
Speaker 6: So now is a good time to remind everyone that

3060
02:43:17,160 --> 02:43:22,080
Speaker 6: San Diego Mayor Todd Gloria defunded the San Diego.

3061
02:43:21,760 --> 02:43:25,240
Speaker 4: Office of Immigrant Affairs because he refuses to stop giving

3062
02:43:25,280 --> 02:43:28,360
Speaker 4: the Cobs a fire hose of our money.

3063
02:43:28,800 --> 02:43:32,440
Speaker 6: This has left migrants in one of America's largest border

3064
02:43:32,520 --> 02:43:34,560
Speaker 6: cities even more vulnerable.

3065
02:43:35,000 --> 02:43:38,320
Speaker 4: We're also doing a fundraiser this week. We're going to

3066
02:43:38,360 --> 02:43:41,400
Speaker 4: fund raised for Bouquet again. I'm going to go see

3067
02:43:41,440 --> 02:43:46,560
Speaker 4: her later this week. I know she has hearings coming up. Bouquette,

3068
02:43:46,600 --> 02:43:49,680
Speaker 4: for those who do not remember, is an Alevy Kurdish woman.

3069
02:43:50,120 --> 02:43:53,440
Speaker 4: Because of her ethnicity and religion, she wasn't safe in

3070
02:43:53,560 --> 02:43:56,200
Speaker 4: Turkey and she came to the USA to ask for refuge.

3071
02:43:56,520 --> 02:43:59,040
Speaker 4: She's been in San Diego for six months right now,

3072
02:43:59,240 --> 02:44:01,440
Speaker 4: and she is trying trying to raise money for her

3073
02:44:01,520 --> 02:44:04,520
Speaker 4: asylum case. And she can't work because she doesn't have

3074
02:44:04,560 --> 02:44:07,520
Speaker 4: a work permit, and she has cancer, which is obviously

3075
02:44:07,640 --> 02:44:10,879
Speaker 4: something which is very difficult for her to manage alongside

3076
02:44:11,160 --> 02:44:16,320
Speaker 4: the massive stress of immigration enforcement. Right now, she needs

3077
02:44:16,360 --> 02:44:19,520
Speaker 4: to raise seven thousand dollars to pay her lawyer. I'm

3078
02:44:19,560 --> 02:44:21,720
Speaker 4: looking at the GoFundMe as I record this and it

3079
02:44:21,840 --> 02:44:25,800
Speaker 4: is at one thousand, nine hundred and forty one dollars.

3080
02:44:26,600 --> 02:44:28,160
Speaker 4: If you would like to help, you can go to

3081
02:44:28,400 --> 02:44:35,840
Speaker 4: www dot GoFundMe dot com, slash f slash urgent, hyphen help,

3082
02:44:36,600 --> 02:44:43,120
Speaker 4: hyphen four, hyphen bouquette, b uk e t s hyphen asylum,

3083
02:44:43,480 --> 02:44:46,080
Speaker 4: hyphen case, or you can just go down as a

3084
02:44:46,120 --> 02:44:49,039
Speaker 4: show notes and click the link. We really appreciate all

3085
02:44:49,080 --> 02:44:50,320
Speaker 4: the support you guys have given.

3086
02:44:51,440 --> 02:44:52,920
Speaker 9: Thank you to James for that.

3087
02:44:53,760 --> 02:44:56,920
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's our week. We reported the news.

3088
02:44:57,560 --> 02:44:58,480
Speaker 5: We reported the news.

3089
02:45:04,879 --> 02:45:08,000
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3090
02:45:08,120 --> 02:45:10,000
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3091
02:45:10,760 --> 02:45:11,360
Speaker 6: It could happen.

3092
02:45:11,400 --> 02:45:13,760
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

3093
02:45:13,840 --> 02:45:17,760
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website coolzonmedia dot com,

3094
02:45:18,240 --> 02:45:21,120
Speaker 1: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

3095
02:45:21,440 --> 02:45:24,240
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find

3096
02:45:24,320 --> 02:45:27,320
Speaker 1: sources for it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions.

3097
02:45:27,680 --> 02:45:28,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.