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Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to softwap Radio Special Operations, Military Nails and

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Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on. It is your host, rad and

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Speaker 2: I have an awesome episode of soft Rep Radio for you.

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Speaker 2: I got a really cool guest. But before I introduced

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Speaker 2: it to him, well who you already know it is

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Speaker 2: because you clicked on the link and you saw the

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Speaker 2: name of who I'm interviewing. But listen, here's the surprise.

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Speaker 2: The merch store. Go check out soft rep dot com

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Speaker 2: Forward slash Merch and go pick up some of the

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Speaker 2: cool items that are out there. I think we just

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Speaker 2: got new shirts that say soft Reap right across the front,

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Speaker 2: so it's like you can't miss it, you know. And

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Speaker 2: I think they made one that's backwards, so when you

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Speaker 2: take your selfie it looks forwards. So go check out

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Speaker 2: the merch store. Okay, and that's at softwap dot com.

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Speaker 2: Forwards last merch and what else am I going to say?

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Speaker 2: Say it with me to those of you who are

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Speaker 2: repeat listeners. Book Club. That's right, soft rep dot Com

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Speaker 2: Forward slash book hyphen Club. If you are new to

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Speaker 2: the program. Welcome. If you want to check out a book,

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Speaker 2: use the Gym, which is a book for your mind.

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Speaker 2: Go check out our book club. We have great authors

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Speaker 2: that are all curated from the special operations team behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes here at soft reap dot com. So without

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Speaker 2: further ado and I'll introduce you to his bio here

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Speaker 2: in just a moment. But let me introduce Patrick Nnton,

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Speaker 2: who has written Born from War. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Rad really

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Speaker 3: looking forward to the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Wonderful And I just want you to know I'm clapping, right,

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Speaker 2: I always clap. I am the studio audience. Okay, so

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Speaker 2: when we go back and listen to it, just know

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Speaker 2: that I am your studio audience. Well, welcome, former lieutenant

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Speaker 2: or lieutenant actually current lieutenant colonel. Correct, not retired. You're

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Speaker 2: still in huh, still dabbling, still going for it. After

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Speaker 2: I'm going to read a little bit about you and

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Speaker 2: then we'll get into you, Okay. Patrick W. Nutton, Junior

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Speaker 2: is lieutenant colonel in the US Army and a military historian. Currently,

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Speaker 2: he is an instructor at the US Army's Command and

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Speaker 2: General Staff College, CGSC at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Patrick is

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Speaker 2: also currently serving as a Fellow at the Simons Center

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Speaker 2: for Ethical Leadership and Interagency Cooperation, a program of the

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Speaker 2: CGSC Foundation. In addition to various tactical, operational, and strategic

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Speaker 2: assessments held over twenty eight years in the Army, Patrick

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Speaker 2: has also served as a legislatively as a Legislative Liaison

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Speaker 2: to the US Senate, an Interagency Fellow with the Department

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Speaker 2: of Labor, and a Congressional Partnership Program Fellow with the

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Speaker 2: Partnership for a Secure America. He has also served as

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Speaker 2: a Senior Fellow with West Points Center for Junior Officers.

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Speaker 2: Patrick is also the recipient of the General Douglas MacArthur

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Speaker 2: Leadership Award. He holds a master's degree in history from CGSC,

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Speaker 2: where he was an Art of warst Scholar, and a

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Speaker 2: bachelor's degree in history from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

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Speaker 2: Patrick has published with over a dozen peer review history

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Speaker 2: and national security journals, and he lives in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas,

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Speaker 2: with his wife, Sheila, and son Thomas. Patrick's work can

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Speaker 2: be found at www dot patnot dot com. That's worldwide

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Speaker 2: web period patnot dot com. Okay, so you want to

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Speaker 2: learn more about him after the show, you can go

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Speaker 2: check out that website. But welcome again to the show.

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Speaker 2: What a great uh, what a great bio.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I hear that bio,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, is that me? Is he talking about

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Speaker 3: It's been a long twenty eight years, that's for sure

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 2: And so you're how old are you today?

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Speaker 3: I am forty six. I'll be forty seven in a

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was born in nineteen seventy seven. Okay, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so what's up? We know about Zelda right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have any video games growing up. We didn't

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Speaker 3: have that kind of money, but.

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Speaker 2: My dad had to have it. How great. So you've

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Speaker 2: got some reviews of your book here, Captain Dale Dye wrote,

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Speaker 2: like a nice description about your book. Should I read it? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Sure if you liked to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. As a father and a multi tour Vietnam veteran,

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Speaker 2: I struggled to explain my war and my voluntary service

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Speaker 2: in it to my children. Reading about author Patrick Nnton

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Speaker 2: similar experiences in his family helped me understand that broad

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Speaker 2: generational gap that confounded so many of us between our

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Speaker 2: war and what was faced by younger veterans of America's

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Speaker 2: global War on Terror, what we had between seminole events

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Speaker 2: was more than a simple failure to communicate. The insights

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Speaker 2: provided by Naughton's Born from War are enlightening and invaluable.

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Speaker 2: Captain Dale Die USMC retired author, actor, filmmaker. So many

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Speaker 2: things he's been a part of, from Platoon to Saving

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Speaker 2: Private Ryan, that we'd all know him if we saw him.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 2: And you may not have seen him, but he's made

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Speaker 2: all the movies tried to be accurate and depict you know,

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Speaker 2: great you know, oscars and things like that. And he's

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Speaker 2: saying that he enjoyed your book because he had issues

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Speaker 2: to try to talk to his kids. You have a dad,

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Speaker 2: and not only are your military, but your dad. You're like, hey, dad,

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Speaker 2: talk to me, what's up? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, you know that was that was definitely

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Speaker 3: an amazing endorsement from from from Dale Died. You know,

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Speaker 3: I didn't, I didn't. I just reached out to him

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Speaker 3: cold and and he responded right away, and I was

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Speaker 3: I was quite shocked by it. And uh, and I

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Speaker 3: guess he really he really liked the topic of the book,

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Speaker 3: as you can tell from from his endorsement, and so

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Speaker 3: I sent him a coffee and he that's what he provided.

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Speaker 3: And uh, you know, I always tell all of my

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Speaker 3: students here at at at CGSC that one of the

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Speaker 3: things to to live by life is to make people

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Speaker 3: tell you no. So you know, people were always like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, you shouldn't reach out to you know, Dale

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Speaker 3: Die and all these other people that I reached out

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Speaker 3: to that are and that are also endorsed the book.

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Speaker 3: You know, he he or she will never respond, you know,

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Speaker 3: don't worry. So I was like, well, I'll make them

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Speaker 3: tell me no. You know, I'll just I'll reach out

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Speaker 3: to them. And the worst thing that's gonna happen is

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Speaker 3: they're just not going to respond. They're not gonna say anything,

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Speaker 3: or they're going to respond and say, hey, it's not

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Speaker 3: for me. Uh So, yeah, you know, I really got

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Speaker 3: some amazing endorsements from some really interesting people, which you

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Speaker 3: can see on the on the back cover of the book,

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Speaker 3: you know, especially Dale Died being kind of the leading one.

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Speaker 3: But you know, doctor Craig Venter, he was a Vietnam veteran.

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Speaker 3: He also wrote an endorsement and he's he's the guy

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Speaker 3: who invent or discovered the human genome. You know, he's

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Speaker 3: like a really huge guy as well. And I was

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Speaker 3: very shocked by you know, but yeah, you know, and

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Speaker 3: and all of them, I think what what enticed them

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Speaker 3: or what interested them about the book was that that

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Speaker 3: that family piece of it, that that energet generational connection

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Speaker 3: of service. I mean you yourself, your your your your

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Speaker 3: father was what was a Green beret, correct, and that

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Speaker 3: influenced you. Yeah, but you know, and that he had

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Speaker 3: influenced you heavily in life. Whether you know that parent

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Speaker 3: wanted it to influence you or not, it did, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so I will say that to all the listeners

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Speaker 3: out there who have warned uniform or still still wear

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Speaker 3: in a uniform, that you really have no idea how

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Speaker 3: much your service influences your kids, whether you are talking

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Speaker 3: about it all the time or whether you never talk

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Speaker 3: about it, and you have all this stuff hidden in closets,

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Speaker 3: closets like my dad did, who never talked about it

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Speaker 3: and never was something that he tried to encourage with me.

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Speaker 3: You know, it has a huge influence on your kids

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Speaker 3: and you probably don't. Don't don't even.

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Speaker 2: Realize it one hundred percent. You know, before my father

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Speaker 2: passed away, you know, he saw that I got into

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Speaker 2: this like wargame lifestyle and he's like, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: sorry that this is the business he chosen that you

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Speaker 2: love and that I introduced it to you at such

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Speaker 2: a young age. And I was like, why, Dad, I

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Speaker 2: love it and he's like that's why. And he's like

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Speaker 2: that's why. And you know, he never really bragged about it.

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Speaker 2: I think I brag about my dad more than he

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Speaker 2: ever would, or like it came full circle for me

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Speaker 2: to about my dad when all the cops in Leyton,

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Speaker 2: Utah would come and hang out and I'm on my

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Speaker 2: skateboard and I'm like skating in the street and you're

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Speaker 2: not supposed to skat in the street, and all the

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Speaker 2: cops are there and my dad's on the curb and

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Speaker 2: they're talking and I'm just like skating, being a little

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Speaker 2: punk kid, like you can't stop me. My dad's right there.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that he was the coolest guy on

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Speaker 2: the block. Okay. So they weren't just there harassing anybody.

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Speaker 2: They were there to stop by and say, hey, what's up, Jack?

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Speaker 2: How's it going? You run the armory over here at

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Speaker 2: the junior high school with all the other a team,

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Speaker 2: you know, that kind of thing. They knew who he was.

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Speaker 2: I just thought eleven year old me was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: dad's just talking to the cops. No, there's you know.

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Speaker 2: And he did influence me so heavily, you know, taking

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Speaker 2: me up in the mountains with his team without ever saying,

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Speaker 2: why is your ten year old tagging along with us?

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Speaker 2: Why do we have a moguli going up these hills

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Speaker 2: with us? And they were in uniform. They were just

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Speaker 2: in like jeans and plaid shirts and tucked in with belts,

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Speaker 2: you know, just like out of uniform. So my dad

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Speaker 2: always asked me why did you want to go Air Force,

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Speaker 2: you know? And I was like, well, you know, if

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Speaker 2: I get through, they have a blueber and it's not

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Speaker 2: as hard as a Green beret. He just looked at

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Speaker 2: me and said, that's all I wanted to know, you know.

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Speaker 2: So there is that generational gap, like you were saying,

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Speaker 2: where he never talked about it. My mom said, here's

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Speaker 2: his file if you want to know what he told

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Speaker 2: the therapist at the VA, and I opened up page one,

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Speaker 2: and I might have turned to page two and then

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Speaker 2: I just shut it. It's like, you know, if my

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Speaker 2: dad wanted me to know these things, he would have

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Speaker 2: told me these things, you know, And so I still

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Speaker 2: have that file of not cracked into it. So I

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Speaker 2: just want to bring that to you on this because

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Speaker 2: I feel like a little bit of that's what we're

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Speaker 2: getting at here is like what did dad? You know,

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Speaker 2: the generational gap?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know he growing up, he never talked

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Speaker 3: about Vietnam. Once in a while, a little story would

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Speaker 3: sneak out or something would sneak out, and that was

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Speaker 3: the only way that you knew. I mean, he never

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Speaker 3: you know, he never wore like veterans hats or had

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Speaker 3: bumper stickers or was part of the VFW or any

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Speaker 3: of those types of things. This is something he never

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Speaker 3: talked about. And then as a kid, you know, you

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Speaker 3: I was sneak around looking through your parents' stuff and

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Speaker 3: you know, digging through their closets or whatever, and so

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Speaker 3: in doing that, you know, I would discover pieces of uniform,

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Speaker 3: old medals, ribbons, you know, things like that. And so

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Speaker 3: that's kind of like that was the influence on my life,

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Speaker 3: is that it was always in the background that I

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Speaker 3: knew my father was a Vietnam veteran who never talked

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Speaker 3: about it, So you know, that really influenced me to

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Speaker 3: then join the army. And then, you know, decades later,

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Speaker 3: we found all these letters that he wrote home from Vietnam,

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Speaker 3: as well as a diary that he kept for the

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Speaker 3: year that he was there, and so being able to

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Speaker 3: you know, dig through all that stuff, and by that

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Speaker 3: point I had already you know, written a whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of articles. It was really into writing, and it always

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Speaker 3: wanted to write a book, and so that was kind

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Speaker 3: of the genesis of the book ideas, coming from finding

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Speaker 3: all that stuff and then going through it. And then

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Speaker 3: you know, like you mentioned just a second ago, you know,

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Speaker 3: we never really we we think we know our parents,

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Speaker 3: but we don't.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: The only way we know them is from like growing

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Speaker 3: up and you know, how they disciplined us or whatever.

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Speaker 3: We grew up with them. But when you get a

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Speaker 3: chance to, like and I hope one day you do

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Speaker 3: open that file and read it, because and then you'll

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Speaker 3: really discover who your dad is, you know, Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: that can be quite quite powerful.

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Speaker 2: Page one was kind of nuts, you know, it talks

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Speaker 2: about Vietnam and some things that he had seen, and

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Speaker 2: what turned him into a Green Beret was the things

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Speaker 2: he had seen done to other Green Berets that they

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Speaker 2: were finding. And so I can see the crossover from

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Speaker 2: him being a young seventeen year old Navy he did

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Speaker 2: Morse code radioman too, being a nineteenth Special Forces Group

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Speaker 2: Guy eighteen echo radio guy right, Morse code. So I

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Speaker 2: could see how he just went from one to the

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Speaker 2: other because he's like, I'm just gonna wear the beret

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Speaker 2: that I was finding around in his file. It's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I have to read more of it. I only read

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Speaker 2: one page and I stopped.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would highly encourage you to read it. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think it would be quite moving for you.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's been time, you know. And at the time,

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Speaker 2: I was just so fresh and I was just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, he had just passed, and Mom was like, well,

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Speaker 2: here's his file and stuff, and.

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Speaker 3: I was just like, I think that's probably a good

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Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, TP A technique for our

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Speaker 3: Some of the people listening to this who have served

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Speaker 3: is you know, they don't want to talk about it,

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Speaker 3: maybe to their kids and so on, but maybe leave

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Speaker 3: something behind, you know, maybe maybe leave some some letters

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Speaker 3: that they write to them. What I'm doing with my

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Speaker 3: son is my wife and I are doing is we

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Speaker 3: created an email for him all right now. He's only

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Speaker 3: three years old right now, so we created an email

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Speaker 3: for him, and then every so often we email him,

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Speaker 3: you know, our thoughts and what we're doing in our

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Speaker 3: lives and things like that, and thoughts of him. And

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Speaker 3: then when he's eighteen, we're gonna give him the password

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Speaker 3: and he'll be able to look back through, you know,

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Speaker 3: eighteen years of our thoughts and love for him and

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Speaker 3: experiences that we're going through.

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Speaker 2: In our own lives. That's cool to journal, you know.

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Speaker 2: You guys uploading some images of him?

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Speaker 3: Are I mean just writing whatever? You're like, hey, we

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Speaker 3: just PCs again after a year. We're at Ford Levenworth.

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Speaker 3: You know, you've already lived in three places and you're

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Speaker 3: only three years old. So just things like that, you know,

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Speaker 3: and so it's kind of so I think you'll leave

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Speaker 3: leaving that for your your your kids and so like

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Speaker 3: like you know, you have file that you can read

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Speaker 3: one day, or these emails that you give him the

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Speaker 3: shirt when they're eighteen, or even all your old ribbons

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Speaker 3: and your medals and your and you're write up maybe

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Speaker 3: in your evaluations, you know, keep all that in a

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Speaker 3: folder somewhere. Give it to them when they're an adults.

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Speaker 3: I think that might be quite interest.

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Speaker 2: I still have pops uniform, his full classes with his

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Speaker 2: blue cord and everything. I looked at it and I

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Speaker 2: was like, how did how did he fit in this?

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Speaker 2: He got got bigger, a little bigger after you know,

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that, and then I look, I'm six five.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, there's no way I could even fit in this,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I still have his camouflage pants from

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Speaker 2: his woodlands, and I have some of his old greens

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Speaker 2: with his name on it from when he was first

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Speaker 2: in the eighties, you know, the old Odie green uniforms

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Speaker 2: with the slant pockets. So I still have some of

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Speaker 2: that and I and I cherish it, you know, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes I'll smell it. Yeah. And I have his helmet,

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Speaker 2: his kpot that has his woodland cover and it's got

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Speaker 2: like C seventeen six jumps and he's got like all

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Speaker 2: these slashes of different aircraft. I'll smell the interior of it. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I just want you to know that's what I'm always

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Speaker 2: looking for. Wasn't trying to have a session with you

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Speaker 2: today on therapy.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, well it's good. It's good conversation. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think it's important for for you know, veterans and

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Speaker 3: people who serve to realize that the impact that it

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Speaker 3: has on their their their children and their spouse too,

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Speaker 3: and then to you know, save something for them that

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Speaker 3: they can then look on later in life, you know,

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Speaker 3: when they're adults themselves, and get a better understanding of

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Speaker 3: you when you were young and raising them and soul.

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Speaker 2: Like his ring right here that my mom gave me

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Speaker 2: when he passed in twenty thirteen. It's his Special Forces

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Speaker 2: ring right here. So my kids all look at her like, hey,

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Speaker 2: can we put that on our thumb? Can we try

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Speaker 2: it on dad? You know my daughter she's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like do I leave it to her? Do I

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Speaker 2: leave it to my son? To leave it to my

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Speaker 2: other daughter. It's like they can figure it out, but

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Speaker 2: it's here here, it is. Yeah, you know Grandpa's you know,

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Speaker 2: handed down Yeah, yeah, and you know they.

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Speaker 3: Have all these recordings too from this podcast.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent, well, you know, immortalized, right as long

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Speaker 2: as the internet's not cut at the bottom of the

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Speaker 2: ocean on us. Then you should have so so born

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Speaker 2: from war? Right, you yourself enlisted at what age or commissioned?

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Speaker 2: Do you mind telling a little bit about how you

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Speaker 2: decided to join the military at what age that was?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So, you know, like I said, growing up, there

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Speaker 3: was always kind of an influence. So it was always

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Speaker 3: kind of the back of my mind that I would

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Speaker 3: join the army because my dad was in the Army,

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Speaker 3: and they have a long history of family members so

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Speaker 3: went all the way back to the American Revolution, who

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Speaker 3: had fought in pretty much every single war. But I was,

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Speaker 3: I was a teenager. I got into a lot of trouble,

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Speaker 3: you know, I was. I was a really bad kid,

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Speaker 3: and so I really didn't know what I was gonna

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Speaker 3: do with my life. Thankfully, up until that point, I

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Speaker 3: hadn't gotten any serious trouble that would have, you know,

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Speaker 3: kept me out of the joining the army.

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Speaker 2: Right, But I was.

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Speaker 3: I was in school, and I was in a special

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Speaker 3: program for like trouble maker kids, and so I was

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Speaker 3: acting up and one of the teachers was like got

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Speaker 3: frustrated with me and was like, what the heck are

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Speaker 3: you gonna do with your life. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: if you, I'm gonna join the army whatever. And then

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Speaker 3: she was like okay, and so she went. And then

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Speaker 3: about a couple of minutes later, she's like, oh, there's

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Speaker 3: there's a phone call for you, and they had phones

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Speaker 3: in the classroom that in case she acted out. And

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Speaker 3: I was like okay, and I got it, and it

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Speaker 3: was a recruiter, and the recruiter was like meet me

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Speaker 3: at the flag pole after school, and I was like, oh, okay.

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Speaker 3: And you know, so I was seventeen. Joined my dad

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Speaker 3: signed a delayed entry program and so that that's seventeen,

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Speaker 3: and then about I think three months later, went off

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Speaker 3: to basic, joined the infantry like my dad. My dad

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Speaker 3: was an infantry officer, but I was an infantry listed

361
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Speaker 3: at that time. Joined the infantry, did about six years,

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Speaker 3: did some hundred first time I got out, did some

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Speaker 3: Hawaiian National Guard time still in the infantry, became an NCO,

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Speaker 3: went back into ROTC, got my degree, you know, had

365
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Speaker 3: my gi bill, had all that stuff, everything all paid for.

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Speaker 3: Was really awesome, and then got commissioned and then you know,

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Speaker 3: like my bio, done a whole bunch of really cool

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Speaker 3: things since then. So it's been it's been quite a ride,

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 2: I understand the class. Can I tell you that the

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Speaker 2: special class. I was in that class. Yeah, we had

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Speaker 2: a timeout box. So yeah, so if the kid acted

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Speaker 2: out or said, you know, fu there, like go to

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Speaker 2: timeout and you'd have to go on your own course.

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Speaker 2: Or they brought the second grader in one time and

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Speaker 2: just put him in there. He's kicking it. He's like,

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Speaker 2: you guys suck. This teacher sucked all these schools he

378
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Speaker 2: needed to be in there, and then he went to sleep.

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Speaker 2: That's so funny that you yeah, yeah, oh, I was

380
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Speaker 2: a second year senior in high school and always skateboarding

381
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Speaker 2: and always doing things and just out there. So funny enough,

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Speaker 2: you know, just not bad enough to have a record.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, at least record, you know. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 3: the Army. The Army really saved my life had I

385
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Speaker 3: not joined the army. I know, I have I have

386
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Speaker 3: this reoccurring nightmare where I wake up and I wake

387
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Speaker 3: up in a jail cell and like all and everything

388
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 3: happened in my past life was all a dream and

389
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Speaker 3: really all along I've been in this, in this, in

390
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 3: this jail cell. So that's kind of you know where

391
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Speaker 3: I was and the army really redirected me, thankfully, And

392
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Speaker 3: I think it does that for a lot of people

393
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Speaker 3: who joined the UH the military. Thankfully.

394
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Speaker 2: They can give a lot of people a direction left, right, straight,

395
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Speaker 2: U turn, start over, do something a little different, you know,

396
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Speaker 2: whatever the case may be. It's like it does give

397
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Speaker 2: you a direction though in life, and and it helps

398
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Speaker 2: you to get out and understand a little bit of

399
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 2: a chain of command makes sense. You know, you're like, oh, hey,

400
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Speaker 2: you know what, I get why that? I get why

401
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 2: there's a hierarchy in my job, right, you know, it

402
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 2: kind of makes sense, you know, go up the chain.

403
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Speaker 2: And so what was the questions that you had about

404
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Speaker 2: your dad that inspired you to want to write you know,

405
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Speaker 2: the the Born Born from War Vietnam, IRAQ, Global War

406
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 2: on Terror, you know, blended? What was that in you?

407
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Speaker 2: I know you're a historian, Okay, I know you makes

408
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Speaker 2: sense with the emails to your son, right.

409
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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it was it was you know, once we

410
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Speaker 3: had all that material, I mean, it was it was

411
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Speaker 3: just really wanting to know more about that war, you know,

412
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Speaker 3: your Vietnam. You know, I'm a historian, so you know,

413
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Speaker 3: but Vietnam. Most of us don't know much about Vietnam.

414
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Speaker 3: All you know is from a bunch of corny eighty

415
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 3: movies that show us that it was all bad. And

416
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Speaker 3: then you know, even in professional military education for the military,

417
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Speaker 3: we kind of skip over Vietnam a little bit. You know,

418
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Speaker 3: we jump right from the World War two to Desert Storm, etcetera,

419
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Speaker 3: really focusing on that large scale combat operations. So I

420
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 3: really wanted to know more about that war and then

421
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Speaker 3: my dad's experience in that war. And you know, during

422
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Speaker 3: the process of writing the book, you know, I was

423
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Speaker 3: able to I tracked down, you know, all the influence

424
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Speaker 3: that Vietnam had when he was growing up, and the

425
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 3: people that died in his neighborhood. You know, how that

426
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Speaker 3: I talked to those families, and how that influenced their families.

427
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 3: You know, even fifty sixty years later, they still missed them.

428
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Speaker 3: And then all the people that he served with. I

429
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Speaker 3: was able to track down a lot of them and

430
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 3: actually interview them. So I was able to cold call

431
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 3: these you know, social media you could find anybody, and

432
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 3: I was able to find these people, you know, so

433
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 3: they're like fifty sixty years later, the the son of

434
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 3: somebody that they served with, you know, decades ago out

435
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 3: of nowhere has reached them and asking them about you know,

436
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 3: his father and their experience in the war and all

437
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 3: that played together. And I had the same name as

438
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 3: my dad, so you know, to them getting this random

439
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 3: email from a guy they knew learning that it's his son,

440
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 3: so that was really interesting. And then just taking all

441
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 3: the lessons from Vietnam, you know that that that on

442
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 3: counter insurgency fight, and then looking at you know, g Watt.

443
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 3: I mean I was in Iraq, so that's really what

444
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 3: I focused on, but g Watt overall as a whole,

445
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,440
Speaker 3: and looking at some of the same bear traps that

446
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 3: that we walked right into, you know, and had we

447
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 3: really studied and understood what we did, what we tried,

448
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,120
Speaker 3: what we applied in Vietnam, we probably could have avoided

449
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 3: some things that we did in Iraq and Afghanistan and

450
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 3: other theaters. So you know, all that's together in the book.

451
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 3: So it's it's it's kind of it's not just a

452
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,719
Speaker 3: dry history. You know, it has some historical chapters if

453
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 3: you like that kind of stuff, but it really is

454
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,439
Speaker 3: takes a a personal look at both wars, from the

455
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 3: human experience and then historically combines, you know, both of

456
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 3: the lessons that we missed and so on and all

457
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 3: of that together. So I'm hoping that it appeals to

458
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 3: a much broader audience, and not just to you know,

459
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 3: military audience, and not just to like a historian audience,

460
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 3: hoping that it appeals to like a broader society understanding

461
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 3: how that influences people who serve intergenerational and how that

462
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 3: that that impact on society as a whole.

463
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 2: Now, now, now, Patrick, tell me what your dad did

464
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 2: in Vietnam. Like, I know he was an infantry officer.

465
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: I might have heard the hundred first maybe from you

466
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 2: or from him. Tell me again, what was his detail

467
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 2: in Vietnam that you can recall.

468
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was in the eighty second Airborne as

469
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 3: an infantry officer. And what's funny is, you know, the

470
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 3: eighty second was that strategic reserve that was kept back

471
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 3: from Vietnam. They were supposed to be the ones that

472
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 3: would answer if Russia or Soviet Union at a time

473
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: something like that happened. But after ted, they needed more

474
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 3: force flow to come in very quickly, and so they

475
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 3: broke glass and they sent to eighty second, So my

476
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 3: dad was not airborne. He went straight from IOBC and

477
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 3: then went to jungle training and then went to Vietnam

478
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 3: and then was plugged into eighty second even though he

479
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: was an airborne because eighty second wasn't airborne airborne tag

480
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 3: at the time in Vietnam. But he came in on

481
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: the tail end of that deployment of the eighty second,

482
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 3: So he did six months with the eighty second, and

483
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 3: then the eighty second redeployed back to Brag but he

484
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 3: didn't get to go because he still had six months

485
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: that he the big Green machine. So then he became

486
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: an ARBON advisor and he advised the South Vietnamese Army

487
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 3: with the twenty fifth Arvin Division. So he did six

488
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 3: months with the eighty second, and he did six months

489
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 3: as an ARBON advisor, and he did it right in

490
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 3: from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy, which is right

491
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 3: when the Vietnam War was changing from pacification with the

492
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 3: US and the lead to Vietnamization to the Vietnamese in

493
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 3: the lead. So he literally was like right at that

494
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 3: gap when that happened at that strategic level, that's when

495
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 3: he joined at that tactical level and was doing exactly

496
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 3: the same thing that was being briefed strategically. So it's

497
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 3: a really interesting perspective of the Vietnam War to see

498
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 3: it from you know, large American unit that he's leading,

499
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 3: you know, as a platoon leader in the eighty second,

500
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 3: to then going and advising the Arbon to now take

501
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: the war, take take charge of the war, and be

502
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 3: the front while the Americans take a step back. So

503
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 3: that's that's what he did. And he saw with the

504
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: Arvon he saw way more combat than he did with

505
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: the eighty second, which kind of flips that narrative on

506
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 3: its head. Is that most people when they think about Vietnam,

507
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 3: they think that the Arbon units were very poor performing

508
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,239
Speaker 3: and you know, they dropped the rifle, you know that

509
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 3: that joke that I can sell you an Arvin rifle,

510
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 3: you know, never fired, only dropped once type of thing.

511
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: But he found that the Arbon battalion that he was

512
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 3: advising was extremely, extremely ferocious and they really fought like tigers,

513
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 3: and he saw with them. Yeah, then he did with

514
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 3: the eighty seconds.

515
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 2: He probably appreciated being with them because that's their that's

516
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: their backyard.

517
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, oh absolutely, you know what.

518
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean it' second come this way, no, no, no,

519
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: this way, no, just between these trees, bro Yeah, pungee

520
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: sticks are here, There's none here. It's like and you.

521
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: Know what's funny is like my dad, you know, I

522
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 3: talked to a lot of the other advisors on his

523
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 3: team that he was with, and they said exactly what

524
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: you just said. You know, they would like the Vietnamese

525
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: would stop and say, hey, I smell something, yeah, and

526
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: the American would be like what you know, and they're

527
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 3: they're smelling things that are out of place in their

528
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 3: native environment that shouldn't be there.

529
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 2: You know.

530
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: My dad was six two, so uh, the Vietcong would

531
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: hang up booby traps you know, at his level, trying

532
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 3: to hit the American advisors. And so that was something

533
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 3: he had to watch out to you that the ARB

534
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: taught him to duck down in certain places and things

535
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 3: like that. So really really fascinating experience. And like I said,

536
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 3: he kept the letters and he kept his diary, so

537
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: I have a real detailed time of that year. Wore

538
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: that that that that he did, and then anything that

539
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: was missing I was able to fill in the gap

540
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 3: from you know, the others that I found that.

541
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 2: He served with. They're so unconventional warfare, right, I mean,

542
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: like these guys that were lurps and everybody that went

543
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: into the to the jungles, people have talked to and interviewed,

544
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: getting like some real accounts from them, you know, walking

545
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: on trails and then just their guys drop, but they

546
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: just see the enemy and then they shoot the guys

547
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 2: who like didn't say nothing behind them. They're like what

548
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: mind readers. You know, it's like, oh, don't forget watch

549
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: out for your head because there's booby traps hanging from

550
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: the trees. You know, I'm trying not to step in

551
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: a tiger pit.

552
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an operational environment that I think, you know,

553
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: US veterans from from around in Afghanistan, it would just

554
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 3: be so foreign to us. You know, what special operations

555
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: and line units faced in Vietnam was just so different

556
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 3: than what you know, we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan.

557
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so.

558
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: It's just really interesting. Yeah, those guys were tough.

559
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: Man the rain alone, Yeah yeah, man, I read about

560
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 2: that too.

561
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,239
Speaker 3: You know, the rain My dad got trench foot all

562
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 3: kinds of other things from from constant immersion. So yeah, really,

563
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: you know, it really really hard war. Really, Vietnam was

564
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 3: really really ugly in that sense, in the conditions that

565
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 3: they had to fight under.

566
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and today we have more of a technological

567
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: war going on, you know, but they're still you know

568
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: what I call the snow piercer element, the human element

569
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: that has to keep the machine going right, even though

570
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: we wanted to just be like androids fighting each other

571
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 2: with no souls going up to heaven and hell and stuff.

572
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: But you know who's controlling those and then once you

573
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: get to that element you take out those guys, so

574
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: someone there's got to be this human element in combat.

575
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 2: It's just crazy. Yeah, you know.

576
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting is, uh, you know, Vietnam tried

577
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 3: to use technology too. We don't really realize that they

578
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: tried to use technology as that I guess combat enhancer

579
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 3: or whatever a way to to keep soldiers and to

580
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 3: keep boots off of the ground. They tried things like

581
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 3: dropping sensors that would embed into the ground and they

582
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: would set off an alarm anytime somebody walked by it.

583
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 3: I mean, they tried all kinds of things like that.

584
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 3: Cause you don't give no credit for and you're exactly right,

585
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: you know, it's still required. It's still required troops on

586
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: the ground, no matter how much technology they tried to

587
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: apply in Vietnam. And then you know later at Afghanistan.

588
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, you know, jade ams and whatnot,

589
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: don't just like they have to like be guided in it.

590
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: It's like like someone's looking at something. You know, it's like,

591
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 2: you know, don't turn the binoculars. You know, it's like

592
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: a movie where he looks with the layer. What. So,

593
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: you know you've written so much, you're you're a historian

594
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 2: of the military. What is your fate favorite genre that

595
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: you like to focus on.

596
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, American Civil war is probably my most favorite.

597
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 3: That's one of the least selling genres.

598
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, such a repeating of history genre.

599
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a saturation. You know, there's so many

600
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 3: civil war books and things that it's it's hard to

601
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 3: get something out on that. But you know, I enjoy

602
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 3: any any military history. And you know, one of the

603
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: things I've discovered, you know, as I write all these

604
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 3: articles and then now my book working on my second

605
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 3: book now, is that when you look at military history,

606
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: you know, uniforms change, the reason for the conflict change,

607
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 3: you know, the weapons, technology, things like that. But that

608
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 3: common military experience is like so timeless. I mean, you

609
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 3: can write, you can read something. If you could find

610
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: it about like a Roman centurion and that common military

611
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: experience and bring it all the way forward to raack

612
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: in Afghanistan, you would find that that common timeless experience

613
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 3: of being in the military, you know, joining up, being

614
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: subjected to that suppline, shipping out overseas, just the common

615
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 3: hardships that you face when you put on a uniform.

616
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: I mean, it's so timeless that it's always shocking when

617
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 3: I whenever I read into those historical narratives.

618
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: And stuff, right, because I mean you do have you know,

619
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 2: a degree in the art of war, right, and so

620
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: it's like you know, attack at night and fall back,

621
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 2: you know, and then attack when they retreat and then

622
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 2: like you know, don't attack in the daylight kind of thing.

623
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: And just like the simplest thought process un Sue wrote.

624
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: You know, like the book is about I can't remember

625
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: how many pages, but it's not very very big. Yeah,

626
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: it's like just you know, move out of the way.

627
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's some common you know, some very common

628
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 3: strategic themes that are also timeless as well, which you

629
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: can you can glean from that from that that study

630
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: of history too.

631
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: I had a marine I interviewed yesterday that'll come out

632
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: here in a few you know, probably right before your show,

633
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: if anybody's listening. But we're talking about how he didn't

634
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: quite know what to you know, hold on to in

635
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: a conflict. And so his instructors before they went to

636
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: go to Iraq and in two thousand and six said

637
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: you know, let me tell you about Valhalla. And so

638
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: he wound up writing a book called Valhalla Voice, and

639
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,239
Speaker 2: so yeah, yeah, and so Valhalla was something that he

640
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: was able to. They talked about the warrior ethos of

641
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: a Viking and the Norse and how they believed in

642
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: transcending through battle, and he's like that kind of gave

643
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: me a good sense of grounding, you know. So you know,

644
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: it's hard because you come from you know, we all

645
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: come from somewhere. Some people don't have a faith that's

646
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: been taught to them. Some people just come from you know,

647
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: maybe like an orphanage into the military and never had

648
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: anybody but a drill sergeant loved them the most. And

649
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: then that drills, you know, and so it's like what

650
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: do they what do they have to latch onto how

651
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: do they find that grounding mechanism And so like you said,

652
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: it can go all the way back to a centurion.

653
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: You can go all the way back to Norse. You know,

654
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: like that's an importance.

655
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: It's an importance some military unit history especially is uh

656
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 3: you know, Sir Michael Howard, he's really the most famous

657
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 3: historian to really latch onto that that idea that you

658
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 3: just that you just uh you just mentioned is that

659
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 3: you know the importance of history is you can use

660
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 3: it to to to build that that commanderie, that that history,

661
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: that that pride in your unit, which can help you,

662
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: you know, survive and thrive in combat situations. So you know,

663
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: soldiers in one hundred first, I was one hundred first,

664
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: you know, you know, Infantruman, we can always no matter

665
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: what hardship you find yourself in, you can always think

666
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: back to oh man, think of those guys in World

667
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: War two, you know, battle the bulls, all that type

668
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 3: of stuff, and you can you can pull forward that

669
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: sense of pride, that sense of cammaderie, and that it

670
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 3: gives you that strength to to further push forward, you know,

671
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: and you can find that like you said, you know,

672
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 3: with Valhalla, but you can find that, you know. The

673
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: eighty second, I mean, any any any unit you want

674
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: to name out there, and that's really that power of

675
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: that history. So you know, as as a leader informations

676
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 3: out there, you know, I would suggest not to overlook

677
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: that that power of that history and then use it,

678
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: capture it, you know, And you're almost doing like a

679
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: propaganda type thing. And isn't it to help you know,

680
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: instill some some pride, some some ability to to be

681
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: resilient and to push forward, you know, within your formations.

682
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 3: I think it's a really powerful tool that a lot

683
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: of people overlook.

684
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would you suggest to somebody who's thinking about

685
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,719
Speaker 2: going into the military right now? You know a lot

686
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: of my listeners will be the younger kids looking up

687
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: to you. You know, maybe someone in their twenties is like, ah,

688
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: maybe this is my moment. You know, it's like I'm

689
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: a little older, I got some college, but I want

690
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: to enlist. You know, what's your advice to somebody who's

691
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: thinking about this from your perspective? You know, Yeah, you know, I.

692
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 3: Would say I always tell every young person, you know,

693
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 3: if you don't know what you want to do, you know,

694
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: you're you're seventeen eighteen, and you don't know if you

695
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: want to go to college, you don't know, if you

696
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: want to go to trade school, you don't know, if

697
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: you just want to go to work. Whatever, you know,

698
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 3: consider the military. I mean, now, the way the military

699
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: is set up, it's no longer that you know that

700
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: a twenty year system. Now it has a blended retirement

701
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: system where you can do three years or whatever it is,

702
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: and then you can walk away with like a four

703
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: oh one K. So that's that's huge, you know, So

704
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: I would suggest, you know, go to the military for

705
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: a couple of years. It'll help you find yourself. You'll

706
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 3: get to see the world, you'll get some amazing experiences,

707
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: some amazing exposure and all that. But also, you know,

708
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: I would say, make the military work for you. So

709
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: you want to serve, right, you're already giving yourself to

710
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: that service to our nation. So that's huge. But also

711
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: take back a little bit too, So take advantage of

712
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 3: the of the g I bill, take advantage of anything

713
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: else that they're offering. You know, if if you want

714
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 3: to be a door kicker and you want to go infantry,

715
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: and or you want to go special forces, you know,

716
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: get after it awesome, but also consider, hey, what's some

717
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 3: other things that I could use that are gonna things

718
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: that I could learn? They are gonna make me marketable,

719
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: you know, maybe learning about computers or radios or AI

720
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: all that that that cutting edge stuff that the military

721
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 3: is working on. So, you know, my biggest advice you

722
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: take advantage of whatever the military is offering. Gi Bill.

723
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: If you can get a couple of college classes out

724
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: knocked out of the way with the education center on posts,

725
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: do that get some good you know, some some training,

726
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: whether it's uh ivory type stuff or some type of

727
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 3: trade or whatever it is. You know, all of that

728
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 3: so that when if you do decide to get out

729
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: and not do you know, twenty plus years, then you've

730
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: got stuff. You know, you've got a four oh one K,

731
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: You've got givil you can fall on, You've got that

732
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: trade skill or whatever it is that you can also

733
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: leverage as well when when you're getting.

734
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: Out VA home Loan VA homeland.

735
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: I mean, there's all kinds of benefits that are available

736
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 3: right now. So take advantage of all that stuff you're

737
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: gonna give. So give yourself, be selfless, you know, do

738
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: that selfless service, that sacrifice, but also take back as well.

739
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 3: Whatever they have to offer, take it. So you walk

740
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: out with a whole bunch of stuff in your kit bag,

741
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: ready to move on to your next career. Take on

742
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: the world. You know, all that's going to help you out.

743
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: So that's my suggestion.

744
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great advice too, you know. And just going

745
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: in and talking to someone at a career center for

746
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: the military is just your first step, right, You just

747
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: got to take that step over the door, say hey,

748
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: what's up. Someone I was interviewing one time. They said

749
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: they went into the army, they were pretty committed to

750
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: the army, but then all of a sudden they went

751
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: maybe seal next door. And they didn't mean to like

752
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: offend anybody, but they just said, well I felt a

753
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: different direction.

754
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: But they're still well yeah, yeah, check them all out.

755
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can ask for what you want if

756
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: you like, you know, say you want to be a

757
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: truck driver and you want to get the best truck

758
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: driving training. You can go in as that and you

759
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: can come out with the creds of you know, an

760
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: Army eighty eight mic truck driver that knows how to

761
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 2: do it all. I mean really, you know, and.

762
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: That's good advice to Yeah, shop around. Definitely hit hit

763
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: hitoped service and see what they're gonna make them offer.

764
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 2: TV because they're called career centers now they are.

765
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 3: They're all most of them are co located so they

766
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: don't have to walk far.

767
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: No, you don't. You can check them out and you

768
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: could just like, you know, or just act out in

769
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: class and you'll get a phone call. You'll see, you know.

770
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: I don't even know if I don't even know if

771
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 3: that teacher legally was supposed to do that, Like I'm

772
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: not sure she could, you know what I mean, Like

773
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 3: it's ship. I don't know sure if that would be

774
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: allowed today, that you could just like call a recruiter

775
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 3: and link them up with a student, you know.

776
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think the timeout box is

777
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: allowed anymore today. Yeah, but there's a lot of things

778
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: that aren't allowed anymore, you know, the level system, eating

779
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: lunch in the room or in the cafeteria. Come come on,

780
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: But I mean I get it. There's some kids out there,

781
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: you know, and we love you, okay, my troubled kids.

782
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: Alternative high school, all the day, all day right here,

783
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: A second year senior but you know what a second

784
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: year senior means that I pushed through. I still kept going.

785
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: My friends were sleeping in while I was going to

786
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 2: school at seven in the morning every single day. Because

787
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 2: I had to graduate, I had to get credits. I

788
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: had to I had to just push forward. And I

789
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 2: think I get a lot of that from my dad

790
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 2: and my mom, you know, instelling in me. You know,

791
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 2: like a lot of Okay, let me just really quick,

792
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,439
Speaker 2: just hijack this conversation. So I had a skateboard shop

793
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 2: when I was thirteen years old, and so I was

794
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 2: selling skateboards out of my garage. My dad was like

795
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: really impressed with me selling you know, grilled cheeses at first,

796
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: and all the kids were selling lemonade, and I sold

797
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: grilled cheeses. And I was making like thirty forty bucks

798
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: a day selling grilled cheeses. He ran an armory at

799
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: a junior high school that had a candy machine in it,

800
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: and all the guys would buy it. He's just super

801
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 2: smart and just had a vending machine and I would

802
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: take his apply and sell it out front. Okay, so

803
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: out front moms are sending their kids over to pick

804
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: up diet cokes you know, oh, go buy them from Radel.

805
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 2: Go buy the diet cokes down the street from Radel.

806
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: You don't have to go to the store. So I

807
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: would just sell them two for a buck, two for

808
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: a buck. And my Dad's like one day he comes

809
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: up to me. He's like, let me ask you something.

810
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: How much you make today on those diet cokes. I

811
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: said about thirteen dollars. He's like, well, you know they're

812
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: sixty cents now, right, because they're not fifty cents. I

813
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 2: was like, oh, bro, I forgot. They went up to

814
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: sixty cents at the vending machines, so I had to

815
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 2: pay him back. But he said I was doing so

816
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: well on the grilled cheeses that I was making money

817
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: minus the bread, the cheese, the rent, the refrigerator that

818
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 2: cost electricity, the stove that had natural gas. He broke

819
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: it down, like, you should owe me this much, but

820
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to just charge you X. So I said,

821
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: buy me a business license in Layton. Let me open

822
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 2: a skate shop. I know I can sell these skateboards.

823
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: And he had a business degree in human resource and

824
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: business management. As a Green Beret, and he was working

825
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: all the way to his doctorate public speaking and business

826
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: communications and stuff. So I think he just really instilled

827
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: in me this business mentality of just like go after

828
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: it that, like you said, was hidden the whole time.

829
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 2: It wasn't like he just kind of groomed me into

830
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: this businessman that I am today. I have multiple shops.

831
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: I'm successful entrepreneur. You know, same mentality I had with

832
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: my skate shop. Except what happened to my skate shop

833
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: is I didn't have any insurance. So as a seventeen

834
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 2: eighteen year old kid now from thirteen to eighteen, I

835
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: got like sixty thousand dollars in inventory. I got snowboards

836
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: and skateboards. I have a whole arcade with like Tron

837
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 2: and Mortal Kombat and all these different games paying the rent.

838
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,479
Speaker 2: And what happened was some skaters that got TD wide

839
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: with their dad to Hill Air Force Base, so I'd

840
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: never met crowbarred the front door, stole everything. I just

841
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: broke all my glass cases, took all the wheels, all

842
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 2: the trucks, took all my stuff that was on layaway,

843
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: and I was just like, oh man, right for Christmas.

844
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: So that pretty much ended it right there, which is

845
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 2: what gave me a direction to go to college at night.

846
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 2: And then I joined the Air Force and I was

847
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: supposed to have a skate shop, right, So he just

848
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 2: instilled in me this business. So later in life, I

849
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: said to myself, Okay, I'll always open a business, but

850
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: I'll do it the three ways. Okay, location, location, location, insurance, insurance, insurance,

851
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: and location location location. So you know, thanks again to

852
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 2: Dad for you know, inspiring me to be a businessman,

853
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: you know, at such a young age, which is why

854
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: I was always not in school. You see, I was

855
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: running my skate shop. So at ten am, dude, you'd

856
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: find me opening the shop and I'm just slinging skateboards

857
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: to all the skater dudes that are like nineteen right

858
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: at fifteen sixteen, So I'm like, who needs school? Well?

859
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: I needed school because what happened. I got broke into

860
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 2: everything got snatched out from underneath me, and I still

861
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: had a chance to graduate. Yeah, so that's you know,

862
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: thanks Dad and Mom for you know, inspiring me there.

863
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, fort's have a plan B that so that lesson is, but.

864
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: We don't have a planet B, so we got to

865
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: take of what we got here. We got to be

866
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: good Stewards today. No, yeah, just to give you some

867
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: backstory on the skate shop, right, and how I was

868
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: getting there. That's what it is, you know. So anybody

869
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: can open a business. You just got to be out

870
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: of a job. You're like, how do I hustle? How

871
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,479
Speaker 2: do I do this? You know a lot of folks

872
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: getting out of the military, they're like, how did you

873
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 2: do it? And I was like, well, when you don't

874
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: have a job, you become an entrepreneur. You're like, how

875
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: do I eat? Yeah? How do I eat?

876
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 3: Yeah?

877
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: That's the trick about being an entrepreneurs. You got a

878
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 2: risk yourself, and yourself is something you're so selfish about,

879
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 2: you know. I know we're selfless swear oaths, but at

880
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's you that cares about

881
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 2: you the most. So I'm you know, and I would

882
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: love to tell everybody all about your book. There's chapters

883
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 2: in your book Born from War that are like, I

884
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: think chapter nineteen, let me see here real quick, is

885
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 2: that the one that says killing was killing people is

886
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: the easiest thing in the world.

887
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a Derek. So all the

888
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 3: chapter chapters start with a quote from somebody that I

889
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: interviewed or or Yeah, so that was a that was

890
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: one of the advisors that my was I was with

891
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: my dad. That was one of the quotes that uh

892
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: that during our conversation that that that he said.

893
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: To me, that is the easiest thing in the world.

894
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, Yeah, there's some really interesting stuff. I mean,

895
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 3: you know, talking to these guys who fought in Vietnam.

896
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 3: I mean, some of the things they said, you know,

897
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: and all of us in the book, it just kind

898
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: of blows your way. You know, today's today's PC world,

899
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: it would uh not fly, you know, and you're just like,

900
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 3: whoa smokes can't believe you just said that. So it

901
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: was really interesting to talk to them because they were

902
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 3: really really honest, you know, about what they experienced in

903
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 3: the in the war, and really bared their souls to me,

904
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 3: which I was very surprised by. I did not expect that.

905
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: And so, you know, all that's in the book. I

906
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 3: tried to you know, obviously, I treated it respectfully and

907
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 3: I did leave a lot of things out that you know,

908
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: some of them talked bad about other people and things

909
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 3: like that. I left some of that stuff out just

910
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 3: because there was there's no there was no need for

911
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: that but yeah, so really really heartfelt, deep conversations that

912
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 3: I had with them, which I hope really come across

913
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: in the books.

914
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one more chapter i'll call out here is

915
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: where was it red white? Was it red white and

916
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: blue on blue? Is that what it's called? Red white

917
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: and blue? Let me find it here?

918
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: Yeah?

919
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: Sorry, I don't mean to, but it's like red white

920
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 2: and blue on blue, probably talking about you know, friendly fire.

921
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not one of mine. I'm not sure.

922
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: Let me see here. I'll find it real quick. I

923
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: was just reading Killing People the Battalion. Should I read

924
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: all your chapters real quick? Do you want me to

925
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: say them? Done? Let me tell you them. Let me

926
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: tell you the should I take some quotes? What are

927
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 2: you going to do with your life? That was.

928
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 3: Talked about that one.

929
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: Get out of this house? He never wanted to worry

930
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: me singing when the lights went out?

931
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was about one of the guys that died

932
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: in my dad's neighborhood.

933
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: A little piss at war.

934
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my dad said. That was lbj's quote, said,

935
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: what about that little piss at war in Vietnam?

936
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 2: He cried on the way home.

937
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: And that was my grandfather drafting my dad off the Vietnam.

938
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 2: Oh is that right off the airport? Yeah, I finally

939
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: had my war.

940
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah that was me interac.

941
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, you finally did. Oh yeah, no, I

942
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 2: love that, nough, I love this. This is actually super fun.

943
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 2: A breaking point.

944
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was between sixty nine and seventy when Vietnam

945
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 3: hit that point where he decided in America has to

946
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 3: get out and Viti he's got to take take the lead.

947
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: So the year my dad went in as a Navy

948
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: as seventeen was in sixty eight. Sixty Oh yeah, same time.

949
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: Ye never knew his dad was coming out at sixty nine,

950
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 2: but my dad never knew his dad. My dad was adopted, Okay, yeah,

951
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: his dad was. His dad was ending the National Guard

952
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 2: Service as my dad was enlisting as a Navy radio guy.

953
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 2: And he never knew this. He never. I found this

954
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: out doing DNA afterwards and everything genealogy. I'll see here

955
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: looks like Vietnam. Yeah.

956
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 3: That was the pictures I sent home of flying over

957
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 3: a rack to my dad and he was like, it

958
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: looks like Vietnam.

959
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: Well he sees what he sees.

960
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, my daddy fought in the area.

961
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 3: So a lot of people and they see Vietnam, they

962
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 3: think of the jungle, and a lot of Vietnam is

963
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 3: actually rice patties. So my dad primarily fought against the

964
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 3: Viet Kong and the rice paddied areas around Saigon, so

965
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: different than what most people think. They think of these

966
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: dense jungles, which some units DIAD serving, but most of

967
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 3: the most people fought in jungle, the rice paddied areas

968
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 3: around the population areas. Yeah.

969
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been some depictions in films I've seen where

970
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: that's exactly what it's. The battle is in is in

971
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: the rice patties and mortars going off and land mines

972
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 2: strung everywhere throughout the probably still to this day.

973
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, there's still uh you know, Vietnam, Cambodia

974
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 3: allows people are still losing limbs to that stuff.

975
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it really is. Man, My men are a

976
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: strange group. Let me get my dad.

977
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 3: That's both of us actually, So most of the chapters

978
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 3: are comparing contrast. So it's like my dad talking about,

979
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: you know, the bunch of draftees that he has, and

980
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 3: then me and the you know, when I was in

981
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: the one hundred first and stuff.

982
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm like going back and forth here,

983
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 2: like the grenade belonged to him.

984
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was my dad. He had they were doing

985
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 3: a patrol and they had this captain. He thought he

986
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: was a hot shot and he ended up the pin

987
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 3: in his grenadian it getting caught in a bush and

988
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 3: he blew himself up. You know, they still got a

989
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: purple heart. Tried to hide it and made it like

990
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: it was it was contact with the enemy when it wasn't.

991
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: And maybe I was dreaming that red, white and blue

992
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: arm blue. I don't know why I was thinking that.

993
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: You know, maybe I was just like, you know, thinking

994
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 2: something outside myself. But you know, I would say that

995
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: if anybody wants to know the rest of these chapters,

996
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 2: like chapter nineteen, the killing people is the easiest thing

997
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: in the world, or the equal of the VC who

998
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: said the equal of the VC who said that?

999
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was the the Arvin. So people talking

1000
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: about my dad talking positively about the Arvin is that

1001
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 3: they held their own against the Viet Cong, at least

1002
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 3: the guys that he advised for sure.

1003
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: And then this one, I'm gonna mention this chapter. Your

1004
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: dad did some really heroic stuff. Which dad you or him?

1005
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad. Yeah. So what was interesting, You know,

1006
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 3: my dad is a Bronze star with the Valor winner

1007
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 3: in Vietnam. And what was interesting is that, you know,

1008
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 3: as I was doing the research for my book, I

1009
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 3: came across a retired lieutenant general, General Richard Keller, as

1010
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: he was a Yukon commander at one point I retired,

1011
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: but he was getting interviewed as part of a Boy

1012
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 3: Scout project way back in like twenty twelve. So, and

1013
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 3: I actually met him, and he's actually one of my

1014
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 3: mentors right now. But so I found this online through

1015
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 3: the Library of Congress, and so he made this comment

1016
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 3: in twenty twelve, well before I met him. I didn't

1017
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 3: meet him til twenty seventeen. Anyway. In the interview, one

1018
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: of the boy Scouts asking him, you know, from your

1019
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: long experience in military thirty something years, you know, three

1020
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 3: wars under his belt, what is one of the most

1021
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 3: things that stand out to you the most. And to

1022
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 3: my surprise and shock, what he said, you know, after

1023
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 3: all this time the military and all this time, you know,

1024
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 3: three different conflicts, what he mentioned was what my dad

1025
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 3: did in Vietnam and how he won that bronze Star

1026
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 3: would be. And so that was like very shocking to

1027
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 3: me to come across that video, you know, me totally

1028
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: out of the blue. That's the one thing that this

1029
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 3: retired lieutenant general remembered of all his years of service

1030
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 3: was what my dad did in Vietnam when he was

1031
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: a major in terge of my dad. So so that's

1032
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: that's where that that comes from.

1033
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: It just stands out. He just remembers that. Yeah, yeah,

1034
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 2: that's wild. So he was his commanding officer that Yeah,

1035
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: he was.

1036
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 3: A team leader for the Urban Advisory Team. He was

1037
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 3: a major at that point.

1038
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: My dad was a lieutenant So I'd imagine he'd have

1039
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: to have seen and been involved and you know, witnessed

1040
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: because a lot of these accreditations or medals that are

1041
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: given are signed off you know. You know, I think

1042
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: what you get combat Action badge or Infantry badge if

1043
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 2: it's the CIV. Yeah, yeah, you know, if it's been

1044
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: witnessed or there's like contact, et cetera. So to get

1045
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: a valor on the bronze stars though, right there are

1046
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: that's not a cluster, right. That's the difference between a

1047
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: cluster and a v is for valor.

1048
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, V is for valor. You know, you can get

1049
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: to get a bron star, you have to be in

1050
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: a theater of combat, theater of operations. But the V

1051
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 3: is what you know separates it, yeah, from from just

1052
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 3: being a you know, high performance in a combat zone

1053
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 3: to a act of valor.

1054
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 2: I mean it's only like a congressional medal of honors

1055
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 2: above that I think.

1056
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 3: Is the Silver Star and the Middlener after that.

1057
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, so it's it's something that was like, I'm

1058
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: gonna make sure that you get a device.

1059
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what you know. It's in the book too.

1060
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 3: It's interesting is that, uh, General Keller at a time,

1061
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 3: Major Keller, it took a long time to get my

1062
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: dad this award and my end so Major Keller is like,

1063
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 3: where is this award? So he goes to headquarters and

1064
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 3: he goes to the personnel clerk there and he's like,

1065
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: where's this award? And the guy's like, oh, you know,

1066
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 3: and he starts ripping through. He starts ripping through this

1067
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 3: guy's desk and he finds a c ib bronze stars

1068
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 3: and all these things in that guy's name. And this

1069
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: guy was like a personnel clerk, you know, E four

1070
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 3: never left the base when in any combot operations or anything.

1071
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: And so he was because he was a personnel clerk,

1072
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 3: he was able to put himself in for all these

1073
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 3: awards and so on and had them and so general

1074
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 3: you know, Richard Keller discovered him and basically told on

1075
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 3: this guy and got him in trouble. But what's more

1076
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: interesting about this this guy he's in the book. I

1077
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 3: won't give his name out. He got to go by

1078
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 3: the book if he want his name, but yes, yes,

1079
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 3: he's Later he ends up at CGSC as a major.

1080
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: And then one of the other guys my dad served

1081
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 3: with on that advisory team in Vietnam ends up at

1082
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 3: CGSC and runs into him, and it's like, how the

1083
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: hell are you a major when you were an E

1084
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 3: four personnel clerk with all these fake ribbons and badges. Yeah,

1085
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 3: and now you're a major, And so he told on

1086
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 3: him and ended up he had this guy. You know,

1087
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: this was before computers and all this stuff, so he

1088
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: was able to fake a commission and end up at

1089
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 3: CGSC and get away with it. So then he gets

1090
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 3: kicked out of the army for this. And so then

1091
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 3: several years later this guy turns up on the cover

1092
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 3: of Soldier of Fortune magazine as a mercer in Rhodesia,

1093
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 3: presenting himself as a three time Vietnam veterans, you know,

1094
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 3: special Forces, everyone, arranger, all this other stuff, and he

1095
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 3: was all made up.

1096
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: I know this, I know this story. I interviewed the

1097
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 2: FBI agent that did the sting operation. Yeah, yeah, on

1098
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: soft rep. He had a bar. This guy had a bar.

1099
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 2: Oh there's another person I'm going to say that did

1100
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: the same exact thing you're talking about. And the only

1101
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: way it was found out was somebody had to like say,

1102
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: well the citation and the citation don't match up with

1103
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: the date of the account. Something was just off, you know,

1104
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 2: and it was Otherwise it would have been scott free.

1105
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he would have got away with it. Yeah, it's

1106
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: all bunch of stole I mean, I myself was a

1107
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: commander caught a guy who stolen beler wearing a fake

1108
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: tab and a couple of other things and got him kicked.

1109
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: Out of the air. Oh that's real stolen valor. That's

1110
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: not the guy going to the thrift store buying a

1111
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: jacket and going outside on the street and getting some

1112
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: food or something. That's not what you're talking about with

1113
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 2: intent with ye per premeditated.

1114
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that happens, Man, it happens. I would say it's common,

1115
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 3: but I mean it happens. You know, everybody has an experience,

1116
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 3: I think with that. Anyway, all that stuff's in the book,

1117
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 3: and it's oh yeah, you know, all kinds of things

1118
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: like that that I discovered, you know, in the research

1119
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 3: of the book that really makes it I think interesting.

1120
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 2: You know, I think you're really a cool dude, sir dude,

1121
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: And uh, I.

1122
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 3: Appreciate it, Thank you, Thank You're cool.

1123
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. And you know I've had your

1124
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: time for just about an hour on this episode, and

1125
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: and it's just been banter back and forth about you know,

1126
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: Born from War, and I hope it much success and

1127
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: just I hope it sells out. And if it hasn't already,

1128
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 2: h when when is it out already? Am I saying it? Yeah?

1129
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 3: It came out last week, April fifteenth, out now, and

1130
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: it's on it's through Casemate Publishers. There are big military history,

1131
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: military type books most people will.

1132
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: Know shout out to Casemates.

1133
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, all kinds of book, good books, so you know

1134
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 3: they're they're probably the biggest in the industry as far

1135
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 3: as that John both in the US and the UK,

1136
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 3: so its available through them, but also, uh, you know,

1137
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 3: any other books on a bookseller. You can think of

1138
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 3: Barnes and Noble, Amazon, all types of different booksellers. And

1139
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: it's also an ebook as well, so you can get

1140
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 3: get a that's your thing as well.

1141
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: Are you gonna voice it? Are you going to do

1142
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: an audible for it? You're gonna sit behind?

1143
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 3: I think I think if it does well, I think

1144
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 3: that's when they make that that that leap to that

1145
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 3: that audible book. But right now it's right now it's.

1146
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 2: Not available as that, right, I mean, but like, are

1147
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: you going to do the read? Oh?

1148
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

1149
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 2: I don't know. They have to say about that from

1150
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 2: your Don't you get to choose that choice, isn't it

1151
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 2: like you don't know?

1152
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, I've been

1153
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 3: a little bit, so I don't know how that would

1154
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 3: work out.

1155
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: Oh, I think you'd be great. I think you'd be great.

1156
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: I think you'd be fine. You sound great. You know,

1157
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 2: it'd be cool to hear it from you, you know.

1158
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

1159
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's your account.

1160
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know, Yeah, I hope it's I hope

1161
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 3: people like the book. It's uh, I know, I definitely

1162
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 3: poured my heart into it. Took me about three and

1163
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 3: a half years, uh to write it from you know,

1164
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 3: putting actual keystroke to to word document. Sure, And like

1165
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 3: I said, it's a whole. You know, it's got everything.

1166
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 3: It's got that larger strategic history piece if you like that.

1167
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 3: You know, it's got the human experience if you like that.

1168
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 3: It's got the societal piece across society as a whole,

1169
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 3: the intergenerational piece between two conflicts. It's got war stories

1170
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: as well. So if that's your jam and you want

1171
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: to you want to read some war stories, it's got that.

1172
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 3: You know, It's got like everything in it, And so

1173
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 3: I hope it appeals, Like I said, to a broader audience.

1174
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 2: You could probably make a series out of every chapter.

1175
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 2: You could.

1176
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 3: That's what I tried to do. I tried to make

1177
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 3: it in a way I like to read books. Is

1178
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 3: I don't like really long chapters.

1179
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like them.

1180
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 3: Shorter chapters that kind of neatly wrap it up so

1181
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 3: that when I want to go to sleep, I could

1182
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 3: be like, Okay, yeah, I could put a pin in

1183
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 3: there go to sleep. Otherwise, like people will leave you

1184
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 3: hanging and you're like, oh my god, I gotta keep reading,

1185
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 3: and it's like, you know, four in the morning. So

1186
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 3: I try to try not to do that as much.

1187
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: And if you want to know the rest of the chapters,

1188
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: I encourage you to go check out Born from War,

1189
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: A Soldier's Quest to Understand Vietnam, Iraq and the Generational

1190
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: Impact of Conflict, written by Patrick W. Notton Junior. And

1191
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: you know, a selfless server to our nation. You've done

1192
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 2: a lot of oaths in your life, so thank you

1193
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 2: for holding on to those. I feel that from you,

1194
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: and I encourage everyone out there to find your book,

1195
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: get the e book, and if you do read his book,

1196
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 2: leave a review for his book wherever you bought it.

1197
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: If you bought it on you know, the Big River website,

1198
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 2: then you know, feel free to leave a review right

1199
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 2: there so that it can rise up and be picked

1200
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: up even further.

1201
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 3: So I definitely appreciate that if anybody could do that.

1202
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a big deal, and I know that.

1203
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 2: And you know, the only other secret I would tell

1204
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: you is as I look over my shoulders, if you

1205
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: go to the airport, okay, and you want to see

1206
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: your book. This is a trick I heard from another

1207
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 2: very very very very very renowned author. I won't say

1208
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: his name, okay, but he said he always takes one

1209
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: of his books with him and he'll just have him

1210
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: scan it if he doesn't see one of it already

1211
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 2: on the shelf at the airport. And what the UPC

1212
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: does is says, oh, last one, negative one out of

1213
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: stock reorder.

1214
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 3: I've never heard of that.

1215
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: I just let you know, okay, So if you have

1216
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 2: to carry one, you know, I'm not saying just set

1217
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: it up there, just try to buy it. Say hey,

1218
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 2: I'd like to buy this book, and just slide it

1219
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 2: there and let them scan it and they might charge

1220
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 2: you nineteen ninety nine, twenty one ninety nine. That cool. Thanks,

1221
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 2: and just know that you get your book back and

1222
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,479
Speaker 2: they might have to restock your out of stock book.

1223
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 3: Oh man, I'm gonna try that. I've never heard of that.

1224
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: That's a good TV right there, Thanks to good maybe mom.

1225
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: Actually I know who it was. He's the author. He's

1226
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 2: a good dude, so good. You know, I think i'd

1227
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 2: like to wind down our time. You're always welcome back

1228
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: on the show. We can talk anything you want to

1229
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: talk about, historic history wise, your own service wise, you know,

1230
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 2: anything that's you know on your mind. We can talk

1231
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: more about your book, your new book that you're going

1232
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 2: to have coming out. I just want to say you

1233
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: have a welcome platform here at soft Rep Radio. And

1234
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 2: you know, you've been a really cool gem and a

1235
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 2: cool lieutenant colonel to have on the show. Sir no.

1236
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 3: I appreciate that so much. And you know, I really

1237
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: enjoy enjoy Softwrep. I mean, you got your guys, your

1238
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 3: guys venues. It's really awesome. You know, I love reading

1239
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: reading your articles and the podcast, and you know, I'll

1240
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 3: put a plug for you guys. Anybody out there who's

1241
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 3: you know, kind of overwhelmed by the by the by

1242
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 3: the the media escape right now and you're trying to

1243
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 3: get to the truth. You know, you're looking at maybe

1244
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 3: left wing media, right wing media, and then you're you know,

1245
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 3: come go to you guys for any type of national security,

1246
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 3: military type stuff. Yeah, that's really kind of a really

1247
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 3: good place that I found that you can get really informed.

1248
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: Well, so I appreciate that.

1249
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 3: That's off to y'all, and I appreciate you guys having

1250
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 3: me on.

1251
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 2: Thanks Patrick, And with that said, on behalf of Brandon Web.

1252
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 2: I always got to shot him out right. Go check

1253
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: out his books as well. Uh, you can find those everywhere.

1254
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: And to callum my producer, and to April who's on

1255
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 2: the back end, and Chris who's out there, and Martin

1256
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: and we know you're chasing everybody out there to sponsor us,

1257
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 2: So thanks so much, bro. And if you are a

1258
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 2: sponsor or, you want to advertise on Software where you

1259
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: want to sponsor the show, reach out to us. We'll

1260
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 2: bring you on board if you're if you've got what

1261
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: it takes, that's what it is. I'm gonna be real,

1262
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 2: you know, hit us up, let us know, we'll we'll

1263
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: vet you. So on behalf of Patrick Junior. My name

1264
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 2: is Rad and this is SOFTWAREP Radio saying peace.

1265
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,800
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Self Rep Radio.

1266
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 2: H