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Speaker 1: You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox

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Speaker 1: Sports Radio.

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Speaker 2: It's our one on this Tuesday, Dan and the Dan

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Speaker 2: Net's Dan Patrick Show. Gang's all here, Marvin, Paulie Seaton,

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Speaker 2: also Fritzie and the back room guys. Guile us up

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Speaker 2: if you'd like Age seven to seven three DP Show

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Speaker 2: operator Tyler's sitting by.

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Speaker 3: Also good morning.

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Speaker 2: If you're watching on Peacock, our streaming partner, download the

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Speaker 3: Stat of the Day has always.

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Speaker 2: Brought you by Panini America, the official trading cards of

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Speaker 2: the Dan Patrick Show, and for over forty years they've

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Speaker 2: been helping you find the right tires for how and

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Speaker 2: like mobile tire installation, tyrereck dot Com, the way tire

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Speaker 2: buying should be, poll question play Theday stat of the Day,

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Speaker 2: All of that forthcoming. Well, there's only one left now

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Speaker 2: and it's Micah Parsons. Trey Hendrickson is in got a

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Speaker 2: little pay bump but not an extended deal here, and

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Speaker 2: Terry McLaurin is in a three year deal with the Commander.

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Speaker 2: So Michael Parsons on the outside looking in. I still

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Speaker 2: think this is going to get done, but it does

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Speaker 2: get tricky. A source said to me yesterday. You know,

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Speaker 2: Jerry may make a statement here and say you got

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Speaker 2: a one year deal left, and then we're going to

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Speaker 2: we can franchise you the next two years unless you

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Speaker 2: want to give us a team friendly deal. Whether that

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Speaker 2: happens or not, they're on the clock and the Philadelphia

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Speaker 2: Eagles are waiting for the Dallas Cowboys. All right, it's

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Speaker 2: an NFL cutdown day. We'll talk about that coming up.

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Speaker 2: Kenny Pickett got sent to the Raiders yesterday afternoon, and

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Speaker 2: I immediately thought, Dylan Gabriel is probably the backup quarterback

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Speaker 2: in Cleveland by all accounts. He has played really well

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Speaker 2: and has outplayed Shador Sanders, and Shadoor Sanders will be

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Speaker 2: the third quarterback. Now, keep in mind they had five

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Speaker 2: quarterbacks a week ago. Now you got Joe Flacco. They

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Speaker 2: had Tyler Hunley in there as well. They brought him him.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have anybody healthy. That's why Shador got that

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Speaker 2: first start. It wasn't a healthy room. Now Kenny Pickett

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Speaker 2: goes after Aiden O'Connell got injured. He'll be the backup

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Speaker 2: quarterback in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Paul, I have.

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Speaker 4: The Browns current depth chart. Joe Flacco first string, Kenny

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Speaker 4: Pickett gone, Dylan Gabriel second string, Shador third string.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 2: The Raiders made it be known that they needed a

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Speaker 2: backup quarterback after they lost Aidan O'Connell, and you get

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Speaker 2: Kenny Pickett, who's bounced around a little bit. He was

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Speaker 2: on the Eagles roster when they won the Super Bowl

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Speaker 2: last year. You go into Cleveland and Joe Flacco has

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Speaker 2: earned it, and almost by default, nobody really challenged him

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Speaker 2: that it was going to be Joe Flacco unless somebody

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Speaker 2: really blew away the coaching staff. But even then, you're

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Speaker 2: not going to start a rookie. From what I was

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Speaker 2: told that Dylan Gabriel will probably get a chance, and

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Speaker 2: maybe Shador Sanders as well. But it's Joe Flacco right now,

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Speaker 2: all right? Eight seven to seven, three D Show Email

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Speaker 2: address DP at Danpatrick dot com, Twitter handle at DP show.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to believe, but let's say I came in

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Speaker 2: today and I told you Josh Allen just retired.

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Speaker 3: You'd go why like you.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't believe that if somebody told you and Adam Schefter

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Speaker 2: Ian Rappaport said, hey, I'm hearing Josh Allen is retiring.

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Speaker 2: What it was six years ago this week when Andrew

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Speaker 2: Luck shocked everybody and said he's retiring. And when you

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Speaker 2: think of shocking retirements. Now, I had been in touch

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Speaker 2: with Barry Sanders and his agent, and the season ended

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Speaker 2: and he was going to London on a flight overnight

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Speaker 2: and he was retiring. Calvin Johnson walked away. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've seen players who walk away and they still have

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Speaker 2: years left. But Andrew Luck was a three time Pro

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Speaker 2: Bowl quarterback, and I think Josh Allen is around a

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Speaker 2: three or four time Pro Bowl. Now, he did win

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Speaker 2: an m but I'm talking about the age.

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Speaker 3: The age of.

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Speaker 2: Josh Allen I think is what twenty eight and Andrew

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Speaker 2: Luck I think was twenty eight or twenty nine, bo nine,

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Speaker 2: twenty nine, Okay, but imagine that that was his Saturday night.

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Speaker 2: The Colts were at home, Andrew Luck is on the sidelines,

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Speaker 2: and Schefty gets word he's at a wedding, and he

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Speaker 2: breaks the news. Andrew Luck is going to announce his retirement.

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Speaker 2: I think on Monday or on Sunday, but we didn't

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Speaker 2: believe it. And so Andrew Luck is on the sidelines

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Speaker 2: and you can tell with the crowd that everybody is

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Speaker 2: sort of going, wait a minute, I'm just wait. I'm

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Speaker 2: getting this from schefter here. So Andrew Luck doesn't know

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Speaker 2: that the story's out there, and then they had to

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Speaker 2: walk him out and he got booed.

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Speaker 3: That was six years ago this week.

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Speaker 2: Now he's the general manager with the Stanford football team.

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Speaker 2: But imagine if Allen said I'm done now. Josh hasn't

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Speaker 2: battled the injuries that Andrew Luck did, and I said

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Speaker 2: for years, you have this unbelievable talent and you do

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Speaker 2: not have a good offensive line. It's like I got

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Speaker 2: this unbelievable engine, but I don't have tires that are

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Speaker 2: filled up. That's what you had with the Colts, and

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Speaker 2: it came back to haunt them because Andrew Luck got

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Speaker 2: banged up, and I think he just got to that

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Speaker 2: point where he realized there's more than just football. But

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Speaker 2: it still surprised us because that's where you go kicking

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Speaker 2: and screaming that I'm going to continue to play.

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Speaker 3: They're gonna have to carry me out of here.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's not who Barry Sanders was, and that's not

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Speaker 2: who Andrew Luck was. Calvin Johnson I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: Calvin Johnson may have just said, hey, I don't like

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Speaker 2: what's going on with the franchise. We're not going anywhere,

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Speaker 2: and he decided to retire. I think at the age

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Speaker 2: of thirty. Barry Sanders around that same age. But you know,

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Speaker 2: once again, we think we know an athlete when we

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Speaker 2: see them. How could you walk away all that money,

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Speaker 2: a chance to be a starting quarterback, a chance to

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Speaker 2: be Super Bowl winning quarterback. But that's why we are

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Speaker 2: truly all different, because what our goals are, our motives are.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Luck had a bigger picture, maybe a bigger calling

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Speaker 2: than just being a professional quarterback. He struck me as

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Speaker 2: there's certain players that I've said this before, there are

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Speaker 2: guys who are really good at their sport, but they

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Speaker 2: may not love their sport. They are guys who are

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Speaker 2: in the gym all the time, in the weight room

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Speaker 2: all the time. There are other guys that they're just

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Speaker 2: really good at this. And I didn't know if Andrew

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Speaker 2: Luck loved football as much as he was just really

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Speaker 2: good at football. And then he may have gotten to

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Speaker 2: the point where he said I can walk away from this.

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Speaker 2: But six years ago this week, Andrew Luck in one

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Speaker 2: of the most surprise retirements in sports history.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Paul and Luck was coming off a very good

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Speaker 4: season in twenty eighteen, sixteen starts ten and six as

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Speaker 4: a starter, forty seven hundred yards and thirty nine touchdowns.

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Speaker 4: Both of those were second in the NFL to Mahomes.

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Speaker 4: And they were coming off a season the Colts where

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Speaker 4: they had won a playoff game.

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Speaker 3: They didn't stink.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let me go back to the Trey Hendrickson situation

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Speaker 2: with the Browns that they doubled his salary and this

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Speaker 2: is a win win for both. It's not a good

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Speaker 2: look for the Bengals, but I understand why they're doing this.

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Speaker 2: You get Trey Hendrickson, who now is going to make

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Speaker 2: thirty million dollars, which he should compared to everybody else,

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Speaker 2: and considering what he's done the last two years, and

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Speaker 2: you're going to make him a free agent, total free

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Speaker 2: agent the following season, he can go wherever he wants,

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Speaker 2: and the Bengals don't get anything in return. This is

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Speaker 2: where you go. I'm going to bawl out and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have a great year and then I'll go

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Speaker 2: play for the Texans or Dolphins or whoever it might be.

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Speaker 2: But the Bengals they get him, and they get him. Really,

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Speaker 2: this is a contract year because he wants to prove

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Speaker 2: that he's a TJ. Watt, Miles Garrett kind of talent there.

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Speaker 2: But I think you look at the age now. Terry

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Speaker 2: McLaurin apparently wasn't old at thirty as a wide receiver,

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Speaker 2: but Trey Hendrickson felt older as a thirty year old

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Speaker 2: defensive end. But I think what happened with the Commanders

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Speaker 2: with Terry McLaurin is it's Jayden Daniels. This is his

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Speaker 2: coming in his second year. He had a great year,

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Speaker 2: went to the playoffs. You had everything worked for you.

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Speaker 2: Let's not mess this up. You brought in Deebo Samuel,

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Speaker 2: but that's a beat up, banged up Deebo Samuel. You

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Speaker 2: need Terry McLaurin. Terry McLaurin there every day for you,

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Speaker 2: every game for you. Not flashy. He's one of those

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Speaker 2: where you see after the game, I'll be damn he

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Speaker 2: had eight catches, ninety one yards and a touchdown. They

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Speaker 2: had to have him. Now, the Bengals Bengals had Trey

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Speaker 2: Hendrickson last year and didn't make the playoffs. This is well,

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Speaker 2: they got him, which is great. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: they solved everything. That offense is going to be great.

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Speaker 2: They'll be fun, be exciting. But you didn't make the

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Speaker 2: playoffs last year, and this feels like for that coaching staff,

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Speaker 2: you got to make the playoffs this year. They spent

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of money on their offense, but Terry

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Speaker 2: McLaurin got paid, and I think in large part because.

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Speaker 3: They needed him.

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Speaker 2: Jayden Daniels needed him, all right, what's poll question today?

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Speaker 3: Seton?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I almost feel like to that Josh Allen comparison

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Speaker 5: is a little Josh Allen I think is a little

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Speaker 5: too accomplished, Okay, But at the same time, then the

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Speaker 5: next person that I would go down to her that

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Speaker 5: came to mind was Joe Burrow. If Joe Burrow retired today,

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Speaker 5: I would be pretty shocked. But he's actually Andrew luck

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Speaker 5: is probably more accomplished than Joe Burrow is at this point,

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Speaker 5: so he occupies this funny spot there.

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Speaker 2: And Joe's been banged up, He's had a lot of injuries.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: They there's a couple of comparisons there that I think

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Speaker 5: are pretty apt.

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Speaker 2: How about most touchdown passes in their first six seasons

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Speaker 2: in NFL history, Dan Marino one ninety six, Patrick Mahomes

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Speaker 2: one ninety two, third on the list all time most

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Speaker 2: touchdown passes first six seasons, Andrew Luck. Then it's Josh Allen, Peyton, Manning,

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Speaker 2: Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Brett Farv, Derek Carr, Dak Prescott.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty impressive list. At Russ, Yeah, Russell is

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Speaker 2: up there.

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Speaker 3: Cook. Oh, he's cooking Hall of Favor. Come on, let's

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Speaker 3: get that fireback kid, come on. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But those guys are sort of you know, Mahomes and

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Speaker 2: Luck and Josh Allen, Peyton, Manning, Russ, Matt Ryan, Derek Carr, Dak.

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Speaker 2: That's modern you know, that's that's the new NFL. When

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Speaker 2: Marie was doing it, that was the old NFL where

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Speaker 2: you might throw thirty touchdown passes. He threw forty eight

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Speaker 2: one year. Farv in there as well at one forty seven.

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Speaker 2: All right, So the pole question or pole questions that

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Speaker 2: we're considering today.

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Speaker 5: Well, we had a conversation before the show about the

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Speaker 5: value of edge rushers. And if they're I mean, they've

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Speaker 5: got to be average salary, they've got to be what

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Speaker 5: like top three or four.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, positions in the game.

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Speaker 5: Yes, right, but they still seem to be somehow undervalued

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Speaker 5: in a way or maybe not as respected as they

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Speaker 5: could be.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think Aaron Donald is as valuable as any

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Speaker 2: defensive player in the last twenty five years. And I

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Speaker 2: could even look at his you know, his value to

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Speaker 2: offensive players, and you'd be hard pressed to find somebody

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Speaker 2: other than a quarterback.

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Speaker 3: Now there are other positions.

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Speaker 2: You know McCaffrey and Saquon Barkley and you know Derek Henrier.

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Speaker 2: I understand that what Aaron Donald did was disrupt everything

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Speaker 2: and edge rusher if I know bosas over here or TJ.

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Speaker 2: Watt is over here. Okay, now I can adjust. Aaron

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Speaker 2: Donald would go up the middle, disrupt everything, and then

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Speaker 2: he would make the quarterback choose if he was rolling

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Speaker 2: right or left. The edge rusher might not do that.

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Speaker 2: Now he's there, we can have two guys on him

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Speaker 2: and you could still stay in the pocket. Aaron Donald

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Speaker 2: with what he did, and you know, I'll go back

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Speaker 2: to you know, when I talk about winning Super Bowls,

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Speaker 2: it comes down to defense in my opinion. You know

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Speaker 2: when Chris Jones, Jalen Carter, Aaron Donald. You know this

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Speaker 2: is just recently. These are guys that disrupt and their

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Speaker 2: defensive lineman defensive tackles, or they used to be called

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Speaker 2: nose tackles. Having that guy, to me is just as,

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Speaker 2: if not more valuable, than having edge rusher.

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Speaker 3: The edge rusher.

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Speaker 2: It's great, we get to see you, you get to

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Speaker 2: do your sack dance, but if you give me, because

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Speaker 2: Jalen Carter had like four sacks and thirty two tackles,

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Speaker 2: but that's not his impact. Aaron Donald was unbelievable. Aaron

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Speaker 2: Donald won the Super Bowl for the Rams because if

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow has one more second, one more second, he's

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Speaker 2: got Jamar Chase. Because Jalen Ramsey fell down. It was

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Speaker 2: a sack off in the Super Bowl. Has that ever

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Speaker 2: been used? We said sack off the day after a sack.

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Speaker 3: Off mock headline.

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Speaker 5: The headline something about a sack off for shack off

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Speaker 5: sack off.

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Speaker 2: But Aaron Donald, those guys, Warren Sap, you know your

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Speaker 2: interior linemen mean Joe Green, those guys who play defensive

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Speaker 2: tackle or nose tackle. Those are the guys who I love.

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Speaker 2: And it feels like every year when I'm watching college football,

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Speaker 2: go man, that Danny Shelton, he's a great nose tackle.

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Speaker 3: And Dominican Sue. You know, I, oh, man, that dude killer.

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Speaker 3: He should have been He should have been He should

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Speaker 3: have been great, Yes, he should have should have been

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Speaker 3: good career, not a great career. He should have been

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Speaker 3: something more known for the wrong things. His career ended

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Speaker 3: up being. He it all, it's somehow it made a

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Speaker 3: wrong turn. Yes, PAULI.

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Speaker 4: There were times when Dominicansu was at Nebraska it looked

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Speaker 4: like one of those movies where there's a kid who's

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Speaker 4: way too big playing with high school kids.

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Speaker 3: It was awesome.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, like, why does this guy have to play college?

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Speaker 5: Just let him go to the NFL.

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Speaker 2: And I remember talking to somebody who played at Nebraska

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Speaker 2: and they were like, we were scared of him. You know,

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Speaker 2: everybody's a football player, but he's got pads on. But

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Speaker 2: he said, we were scared of the Dominican sue. Okay,

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Speaker 2: stop me, you know, yeah, I don't know again, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, let me take a break. We'll come up with

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Speaker 3: a pole question here.

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Speaker 2: We got a lot of things to get to today,

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Speaker 2: and I thought it would be interesting to have Ben

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Speaker 2: Denucci on former NFL quarterback. If you follow social media,

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Speaker 2: he posted a picture of him at the airport and

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Speaker 2: he was having a beer on Saturday, had just gotten

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Speaker 2: cut for the seventh time. Now, I did have that

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Speaker 2: one game during COVID Cowboys Eagles and he started for

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Speaker 2: the Cowboys, and I thought we could talk to him

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Speaker 2: about what this life is like where you're not quite

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Speaker 2: sure and you know, quarterback's a great position to play,

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Speaker 2: but he's been cut seven different times, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know when you get to that point where you say

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Speaker 2: all right enough.

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Speaker 3: But we'll talk to him coming up a little bit

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Speaker 3: later on.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Dan

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Speaker 1: Patrick Show weekdays at nine am Eastern six am Pacific

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Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio w app.

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Speaker 6: Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're

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Speaker 6: Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 3: You could catch us.

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Speaker 7: Weekdays from bot seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific

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Speaker 7: on Fox Sports Radio and of course the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 6: Why should you listen to Cavino and Rich.

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Speaker 7: We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on

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Speaker 7: in the world.

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Speaker 6: We have a lot of fun talking about the stories

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Speaker 6: behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,

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Speaker 6: stories that well, other shows don't seem to have the

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Speaker 6: time to discuss.

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Speaker 7: And the fact that we've been friends for the last

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Speaker 7: twenty years and still work together, I mean that says something, right.

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Speaker 6: So check us out. We like to get you involved too,

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Speaker 6: take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,

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Speaker 6: I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,

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Speaker 6: maybe the most interactive show on planetar. Be sure to

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Speaker 6: check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports Radio

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Speaker 6: and the iHeartRadio app from five to seven pm Eastern

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Speaker 6: two to four Pacific, And if you miss any of

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Speaker 6: the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you

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Speaker 6: get your podcasts, and of course on social media, that's

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Speaker 6: Covino and Rich.

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Speaker 2: Ben Denucci, NFL quarterback recently cut by the Falcons, the

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Speaker 2: seventh time he's been released in his pro career. He

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Speaker 2: played at Pittsburgh. He played a James Madison and was

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Speaker 2: initially I think selected by the Cowboys and the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty NFL Draft. Got to start a game for the Cowboys.

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Speaker 2: I think that same year during COVID and Ben joining US,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to buy you a beer. I felt bad

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Speaker 2: when you posted you were at the airport.

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Speaker 3: What time was that you were having a beer on Saturday?

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Speaker 8: About three pm?

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Speaker 9: So I thought I thought it was I thought it

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Speaker 9: was good enough time to crack one open, so FIG

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Speaker 9: figured it was fine.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever get used to getting cut.

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Speaker 8: Honestly?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean I was very fortunate the first couple

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Speaker 9: of years of my career to be.

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Speaker 8: To be in Dallas, and then the last couple of years.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, the last twelve or twelve or eighteen months, I've

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Speaker 9: been on three or four teams. It seems like every

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Speaker 9: every couple of months you're you're packing up, finding finding

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Speaker 9: a new place to play, and you know, going about

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Speaker 9: your business.

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Speaker 8: So yeah, I'd say at this point, I'm I'm used

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Speaker 8: to it. I'm kind of numb to it. Not necessarily

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Speaker 8: that it's a bad thing, it's you just kind of

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Speaker 8: get used to it.

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Speaker 3: How tense is cut down day?

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Speaker 8: For me?

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Speaker 9: The last I mean the last couple of years, it

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Speaker 9: hasn't been very tense. I didn't see myself having any

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Speaker 9: chance to make the roster, to make the practice squad.

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Speaker 9: But it's it's tough, right, I mean you people don't

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Speaker 9: realize for the guys that are trying to make this roster,

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Speaker 9: the any roster, the preseason is your is your super Bowl?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 9: Your playoffs you get two or three games. Uh, you

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Speaker 9: get maybe a couple of quarters a game to go

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Speaker 9: put on tape what you're what you're gonna do not

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Speaker 9: only for the team you're on, but the thirty one

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Speaker 9: other teams.

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Speaker 8: So it's it's very stressed.

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Speaker 9: I've got a few buddies who are still sitting around

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Speaker 9: waiting this morning to see if see if their phone

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Speaker 9: rings are not and uh, they'll go from there. But yeah,

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Speaker 9: it's stressful. It's guys live livelihoods. It's their way of

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Speaker 9: making money and it's uh, you know what they do.

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Speaker 9: So it's it's very stressful.

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Speaker 3: Hell, were you told.

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Speaker 9: My phone rang from a New York number that I

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Speaker 9: didn't have in my phone And that's normally, uh you know,

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Speaker 9: that's normally a number you don't ever want to see

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Speaker 9: pop up on your phone. I answered, he Ben, you know,

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Speaker 9: coach wants to see you bring your iPad, bring your charger,

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Speaker 9: bring your playbook. And that's kind of kind of how

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Speaker 9: it rolls. When you get into the facility, there's somebody

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Speaker 9: waiting for you. They take you around, drop your iPad off,

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Speaker 9: go see your coaches, go see you know whoever else

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Speaker 9: you need to see, and then you know, they buy

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Speaker 9: you a flight and then you're out. Next thing you know,

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Speaker 9: you're drinking an airport beer.

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Speaker 2: So okay, what do you do now, Like, at what

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Speaker 2: point do you say, now, I know you're you're going

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Speaker 2: to do a football game coming up air Force and

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Speaker 2: Bucknill and CBA Sports Network, But are you done trying

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Speaker 2: out for NFL teams?

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Speaker 8: So no, I don't think.

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Speaker 9: I'm officially done yet, right, I mean, the NFL is

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Speaker 9: an interesting kind of animal. You get a phone call

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Speaker 9: at any second, could be today, tomorrow.

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Speaker 8: Could be in six months, could could never be again.

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Speaker 9: So yeah, the tough part guy for guys is staying

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Speaker 9: in it, right, waking up every morning, still doing what

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Speaker 9: you've been doing the last couple of years, to make

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Speaker 9: sure that you know if the phone rings, you know

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Speaker 9: you're you're doing what you're supposed to do and ready

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Speaker 9: to roll that if a team needs you. But at

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Speaker 9: the same time, I've been in the situation a couple

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Speaker 9: of times the last couple of years and don't necessarily.

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Speaker 8: Want to be waiting around again.

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Speaker 9: I'll fall just stressing myself out watching an NFL all

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Speaker 9: games on Sunday.

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Speaker 8: So I'm excited to UH to move on a little bit.

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Speaker 9: Progress the next chapter of my career outside of football,

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Speaker 9: and looking forward to to calling Buckelver's Air Force to Saturday.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but if you get a call on Friday night

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Speaker 2: by an NFL team, what happens to Saturday afternoon Bucknell

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Speaker 2: and Air Force?

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Speaker 9: I'll tell him, hey, I can't I can't be anywhere

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Speaker 9: until Sunday, and hopefully their response.

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Speaker 3: Is is what I expected?

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Speaker 2: UH?

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Speaker 3: Seventh round draft pick by the Cowboys.

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Speaker 8: Correct?

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Speaker 2: What was that like when Jerry Jones called you to

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Speaker 2: tell you he was drafting you?

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Speaker 8: Very cool?

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Speaker 9: I think I might be one of the only people

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Speaker 9: in Cowboys history to say that I got drafted from

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Speaker 9: UH from Jerry Jones's yacht. It was that COVID year,

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Speaker 9: so they weren't. They weren't in their draft room in Dallas.

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Speaker 9: I think Jerry was calling everybody from UH from from

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Speaker 9: his yacht in the middle of the ocean somewhere, and

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Speaker 9: UH saw the phone ring. It was his assistant. He said, hey,

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Speaker 9: you know, Ben, you know, mister mister Jones wants to

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Speaker 9: talk to you. We've got the next pick. We're drafting you,

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Speaker 9: and uh, you know, at that point it was kind

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Speaker 9: of like, all right, this is this is It's really cool.

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Speaker 9: Everything that we work for growing up, high school, college,

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Speaker 9: it's kind of all come first, full circle and worth

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Speaker 9: it in this kind of the moment that we've been

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Speaker 9: waiting for.

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Speaker 2: Ben Denutci NFL quarter I'm still going to introduce you's

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Speaker 2: NFL quarterback.

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Speaker 8: That's fair. I'll take it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, released for the seventh time in his pro career,

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Speaker 2: and it'll be in the broadcasting booth. It'll be Bucknell

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Speaker 2: in Air Force. That'll be a three thirty Eastern this

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Speaker 2: weekend for CBS Sports Network. Being on the practice squad

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Speaker 2: as opposed to the active squad, what's the difference in

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Speaker 2: how you're treated, your pay lifestyle.

438
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, honestly, nothing's different except your weekly checks that you're

439
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 9: getting in every week. You know, everybody treats you the

440
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 9: same way, right, I Mean, there's fifty three guys on

441
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 9: the active roster and there's sixteen on the practice squad,

442
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 9: And the reality of the NFL is that guys are

443
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 9: going to get hurt over the course of the year, right,

444
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 9: whether it's you know, whatever position it is. And so

445
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 9: those guys that are on the practice squad, they're a

446
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 9: vital part of the team.

447
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 8: They're the guys that are getting.

448
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 9: The starters ready to go to go, uh you know,

449
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 9: play out there on Sundays.

450
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 8: They have a vital, vital role in making these teams go.

451
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 9: And so there's a reason that these teams put a

452
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 9: lot of effort into into the practice squad, just.

453
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 8: Just like they do the active rosters. So yeah, it's

454
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 8: really all the same.

455
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 9: You're still traveling with the team, You're still still practicing,

456
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,719
Speaker 9: still part of meetings. The pay cuts a little bit,

457
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 9: a little bit less, but at the end of the day,

458
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 9: it's it's it's still great.

459
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 3: So but can you can you leave it now?

460
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: Like if I say, what is your moment, You're gonna

461
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: tell your kids are grand kids where you that's my

462
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 2: NFL moment?

463
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: What is it?

464
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 7: Yeah?

465
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 9: I mean it'd be it'd be hard not to say,

466
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 9: you know, my rookie year, when I got to start

467
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 9: that game on Sunday Night football against the Cowboys. I

468
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 9: think that's a moment that everybody kind of grows up thinking, Hey,

469
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 9: I'd love to I'd love to play in the NFL.

470
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 9: Let alone, let it be for the Dallas Cowboys, right,

471
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 9: I mean, the stars just kind of this iconic brand,

472
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 9: not only you know in the US, but you know

473
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 9: overseas as well. So yeah, it's uh, it's it's crazy

474
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 9: that it just happened my first year. Some guys, it

475
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 9: happens year ten, something happens you or five. Mind, just

476
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 9: happened to be.

477
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 8: To be a rookie year. And so to be able

478
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 8: to do that and say.

479
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 9: I started a game for the Dallas Cowboys, it's something

480
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 9: that a lot of people can't can't say and stick

481
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 9: their name to.

482
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 8: So that was kind of my hey, welcome to the

483
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 8: NFL moment.

484
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 9: And I think when it's all said and done, that'll

485
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 9: be what I look back on and saying, man, was

486
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 9: that was pretty cool?

487
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 8: I'm g glad that happened.

488
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: Hell nervous, were you?

489
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 8: Well?

490
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 9: Honestly, I think I would have been a lot more

491
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 9: nervous had there been seventy five thousand people in the

492
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 9: stands like a year opposed to only five or six

493
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 9: thousand for COVID. So honestly, wasn't that nervous, right, I

494
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 9: think you're more nervous just kind of the week leading up,

495
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 9: the practice, the game plan, making sure you know that checks,

496
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 9: everything is kind of you're good mentally, and then when

497
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 9: you get out there on the on the day of

498
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 9: the game. Shoot, it's the same game I've been playing

499
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 9: for the last fifteen years. So when you step inside

500
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 9: the white lines, it's it's go time. You got to

501
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 9: shut everything else out and go play ball.

502
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: You get to keep your jerseys from all these stumps.

503
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 4: You do.

504
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, you can see my Cowboys one up here.

505
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 9: I grabbed my Falcons one last weekend and I think

506
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 9: I've got the only the only one I don't have

507
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 9: is the bills from last year during camp, So trying

508
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 9: to trying to find a way to get that one.

509
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 8: That's the last one I need.

510
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: Do you have to ask or do you steal?

511
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 9: Well, you steal, but they still, uh, they still deduct

512
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 9: it from your paycheck. You've got to got to sign

513
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 9: off on everything. The day after the games, when they're

514
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 9: checking all the jerseys back in there, like all of

515
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 9: a sudden, Hey, Danuccies's Jersey's not here. Let's make sure he, uh,

516
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 9: he pays for this thing on his way out. So

517
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 9: that might have been my last party and gift from

518
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 9: the Falcons.

519
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 3: How much was it?

520
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 9: Uh, four hundred bucks? Yeah, so, I mean, I guess

521
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 9: it depends who you ask if that's.

522
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 8: A lot of money or not.

523
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: So is it game used?

524
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 8: Worth it? It was worth it?

525
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,239
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's game used it when I worked the game,

526
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 9: took it right off. I took it right off my

527
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 9: pads after the game and through my bags.

528
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,719
Speaker 2: Good luck with the broadcasting career and maybe the phone rings.

529
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: But you got the opportunity though, Ben, that's the key,

530
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: and a lot of us never had it. You got it,

531
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 2: and maybe you get that opportunity again. But like you're

532
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: in good spirits. I don't know if you're masking something.

533
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 2: Did you cry?

534
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 8: I've cried a couple of times.

535
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 9: I'm at this point in my career where it's just

536
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 9: I'm filled with a lot of gratitude at this point.

537
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 9: Right to be able to be cut that many times,

538
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 9: you've got to you know, team's got to like you

539
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 9: enough to sign you in the first place. Right, So

540
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 9: it's been an unbelievable career got five good years, played

541
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 9: on a bunch of different teams, played for some you

542
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 9: know head coaches that I grew up idolizing, you know,

543
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 9: Coach McCarthy, coach Peyton, coach McDermott, and Buffalo. Played with

544
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 9: a lot of guys, right, Dak, Josh Allen, Russell Wilson,

545
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 9: Guys that you know I've had on my fantasy team

546
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 9: for years growing up, and then all of a sudden

547
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 9: you're sitting next to him in the in the meeting

548
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 9: room saying, how the hell the heck did I get here?

549
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 9: So it's been really cool for me. Yeah, there's no

550
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 9: reason to hang my hat. I'm excited about the next chapter,

551
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 9: and it's been it's been a heck.

552
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 8: Of a ride.

553
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: It might be awkward, and it might be awkward me

554
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 3: even saying this, But did you ever try to swap

555
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: jerseys with Dak or Russell Wilson or Josh Allen?

556
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 8: Honestly, no, that thought never even even crossed my mind.

557
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 9: But looking back now, I sure would like to have

558
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 9: a couple of a couple of those jerseys to throw

559
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 9: up next to mine in my in my man cave,

560
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 9: just to say, hey my kids one day, Yeah, your

561
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 9: dad was decent.

562
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 8: He actually did play with these guys. He doesn't just

563
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 8: have much of r random jerseys of himself hanging up

564
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 8: on the wall.

565
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us.

566
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 2: We appreciate being a good sport here and good luck

567
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: against with Bucknell and air Force this weekend.

568
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 8: Thank you, Dan, appreciate it all the best.

569
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: That's Ben Denucci. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports

570
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows

571
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: at Foxsports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app

572
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: search FSR to listen live.

573
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: I've been talking about Aaron Donald, how I think he's

574
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: underrated and I love having that defensive tackle, nose tackle.

575
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 2: He disrupts everything up the middle, and Aaron Donald certainly

576
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 2: did that. We ran down some other names in NFL history.

577
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 2: I know edge rushers get a lot of attention, certainly cornerbacks,

578
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: but that guy up the middle that just changes everything

579
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: and lo and behold. Fritzy reaches out to Trevors sak A,

580
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 2: the Pro Football Focus Lead draft analyst host of NFL

581
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: Stock Exchange podcast. Help me understand the metrics for Pro

582
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 2: Football Focus on the most valuable If I put Aaron Donald,

583
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 2: and I said TJ. Watt, like, how do you equate

584
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: the value of Aaron Donald to TJ. Watt or another

585
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: edge rusher Miles Garrett.

586
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, So we have a model over at PFF dot com.

587
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 10: It's called win's above average, wins above replacement, whatever you

588
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 10: want to call it, and actually it's available for our

589
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 10: team clients to be able to use.

590
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 3: It's not a PFF.

591
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 10: Plus product that we have there, and honestly it's because

592
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 10: a lot of stuff goes into it. And the question

593
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 10: that you asked is it's a tough one, right. I mean,

594
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 10: I think in baseball, a lot of people will reference

595
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 10: wins above average, winsbow replacement, that kind of stuff, and

596
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 10: it's a little bit easier because a lot of the

597
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 10: stats are a little.

598
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 3: Bit more common.

599
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 10: We're viewing things on a little bit more of a

600
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 10: of an equal playing field, especially when it comes to offense.

601
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 10: In the NFL, it's different and it really is a

602
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 10: total team game and it is tough to individualize those

603
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 10: certain performances. But with the model that we have, you know,

604
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 10: we get to take things into account like PFF grades,

605
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 10: which of course grade every single player on every single play,

606
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 10: which kind of tell us how well a player is

607
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 10: executing their job. And then we're able to give a

608
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 10: little bit of value to that with the rise in

609
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 10: popularity and perfection of the EPA per play, EPA per rush,

610
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 10: those kinds of metrics. So now all of a sudden

611
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 10: you have stats that or grades, data points I should say,

612
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 10: that allow you to grade performance.

613
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 8: And then we also have a.

614
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 10: Data point that gives you a little bit of an

615
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 10: idea for value. And so going back to your question

616
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 10: of like hey, Aaron Donald versus TJ. Watt versus Miles Garrett,

617
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 10: it all kind of comes down to how an individual

618
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 10: player is making an individual play and necessarily not only

619
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 10: how much are they leaned upon just themselves on an island,

620
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 10: if you will, but also does doing their job either

621
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 10: at a net zero level or a positive or a

622
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 10: negative level, how much that actually impacts the football game.

623
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 10: And so we have our own wins above Average metric,

624
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 10: which a lot of those things sort of get into it,

625
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 10: and we can get into that a little bit deeper

626
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 10: for as much as I can. I didn't invent the

627
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 10: metric myself. I just kind of know it pretty well

628
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 10: from everything that we do. But it is that way

629
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 10: where we take a total team game and try to

630
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 10: give these guys individual value and just to what you

631
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 10: were talking about about, you know Aaron Donald before, it

632
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 10: felt like he was breaking our wins above average model

633
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 10: sometimes with how much he was able to impact the

634
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 10: game at his high of a level. But we have

635
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 10: to take that into account when we do stuff like that.

636
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: Least valuable defensive position is what oh I would say.

637
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 10: I would say the least valuable is often linebacker because

638
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 10: the word replacement or average does a lot of the

639
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 10: heavy lifting for this formula when you get linebackers, of course,

640
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 10: like Fred Warner is at the very top of the list,

641
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 10: and it's because of what he can do in coverage,

642
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 10: as a run defender, as a pass rusher.

643
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 3: He does all of those things. But there are so

644
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: many linebackers.

645
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 10: That don't have that capability to give you those plus

646
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 10: grades and maybe more important, just those even grades of

647
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 10: not screwing up his job the way that Fred Warner

648
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 10: does that with a high floor and a high ceiling.

649
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 10: So a guy like that will have a wins above

650
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 10: average that is a little bit closer to you know,

651
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 10: normal interior defender, some edge rushers guys like that, but

652
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 10: there's a lot of linebackers that it gets a lot

653
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 10: lower to that zero point zero wins above average number,

654
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 10: the further you go down from Fred Warner, and it

655
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 10: doesn't take you long to get to that point. So

656
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 10: I think that the most valuable linebackers in the league

657
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 10: still hold that word a ton of value themselves. But

658
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 10: there's just a lot of guys that, much like the

659
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 10: running back position, the more replaceable you are, the more

660
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 10: close to average you are, the less value you're going

661
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 10: to hold.

662
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: Like that, if the Bengals ask you and Pro Football

663
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: Focus if they should give Trey Hendrickson a three year

664
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: deal or just giving me a one year deal and

665
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: let him walk, what would Pro Football Focus tell the Bengals.

666
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that it comes down to sort of

667
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 10: exactly what the conversation ended up being between these two parties,

668
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 10: and that is he's I believe thirty right now are

669
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 10: about the third thirty one. What does his performance look

670
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 10: like in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven? Where

671
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 10: is that drop off there? And you know, it's a

672
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 10: little bit of a different metric. I don't know, you know,

673
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 10: if we have something out there for necessary like age decline,

674
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 10: but I can tell you from a winds above average standpoint,

675
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 10: the only edge rusher that we had in our system

676
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 10: that was more valuable than Trey Hendrickson, who led the

677
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 10: NFL and pressures last year, was Miles Garrett. And the

678
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 10: reason why Miles Garrett was a little bit higher is

679
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 10: simply because he was better as a run defender. But

680
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 10: Trey was doing his job extremely well out and I

681
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 10: would stack that up with the rest of the team

682
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 10: there with the Bengals, you're not just looking at what

683
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 10: Trey Henderson is versus the rest of the league. Of course,

684
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 10: that goes into the overall number of what you're discussing

685
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 10: with the contract, but it also goes into who else

686
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 10: do you have on your team, because if you look

687
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 10: at the Bengals, the three players that are higher and

688
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 10: wins above average are the three that you would expect.

689
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 10: It's t Higgins's Jamar Chason, of course is Joe Burrow,

690
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 10: but after that it's Trey Henderson, and then you know

691
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 10: the next guy on the team is much much lower.

692
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 10: So I would certainly tell the Bengals, like, hey, if

693
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 10: you want to compete for a Super Bowl, if you

694
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 10: want to compete in what is maybe the toughest division

695
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 10: in the NFL, you probably cannot do it with this guy,

696
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 10: and you're not going to be able to replace him

697
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 10: in the aggregate.

698
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 2: Trevor Sikamau, the Pro Football Focus Lead NFL Draft analyst

699
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: co host of NFL Stock Exchange podcast. For a guy

700
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: who won the Heisman and is coming in and maybe

701
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: playing both ways, there is little conversation about Travis Hunter,

702
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: which I find remarkable. Has Pro Football Focus looked at

703
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: what's more valuable in all Pro cornerback or an All

704
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: Pro wide receiver with Travis Hunter?

705
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 10: So these guys are it is pretty close between those

706
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 10: because you know, as we were putting together and again

707
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 10: I wasn't in the beginning stages of this. I've just

708
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 10: done a lot of reading up on it and had

709
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 10: conversations with a lot of people who kind of came

710
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 10: up with this metric for us. What we realized is

711
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 10: that wins above average and wins above replacement in the

712
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 10: game of football gets a lot higher the further you

713
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 10: are away from the ball, actually because normally you have

714
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 10: less help, right, I mean, like when you're closer to

715
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 10: the ball, if you're in the box, you know, as

716
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 10: an interior defensive lineman or a linebacker, and even sometimes

717
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 10: edge rushers you have a lot of help next to you.

718
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 10: But when you get all the way out to the

719
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 10: sideline and it's a corner and a wide receiver, you're

720
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 10: on an island. It's all about your individual skills. How

721
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 10: can you get open? How can you not let a

722
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 10: receiver get open? And what we have figured out is

723
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 10: that some years it can flip right. Some years the

724
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 10: highest wins above average wide receiver like a Jamar Chase

725
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 10: or a Justin Jefferson can be a little bit higher.

726
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 10: But last year, for example, it was Patrick Shirtan. He

727
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 10: was the highest graded defender that we had from a

728
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 10: wins above average standpoint. He ends up winning Defensive Player

729
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 10: of the Year, and it's just because of exactly what he's.

730
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: Able to do.

731
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 10: You can stick him on an island against the other

732
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 10: team's best playmaker in the passing game and he can

733
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 10: totally take him away. That is unbelievably valuable from an

734
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 10: individual standpoint in a team game, so it is sort

735
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 10: of close. But to answer your question, I think that

736
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 10: for the most part, if you are a true top tier,

737
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 10: top five corner, that is going to be more valuable

738
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 10: than even the top wide receivers, because again we get

739
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 10: back to scarcity. There's a lot of wide receivers who

740
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 10: can do it at a very high level. There's not

741
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 10: a ton of corners that you can go out there

742
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 10: and tell them to play cat cover and say, hey,

743
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 10: you go cover that cat, make sure he doesn't catch

744
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 10: the football. Top ones do and our numbers reflect that

745
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 10: type of scarcity and that value. So that's why I

746
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 10: was a big proponent of Travis Hunter being a corner

747
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 10: in the NFL and understanding that if you wanted to

748
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 10: get benefit of the both sides of the ball with him,

749
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 10: you'd probably have to, you know, play him a little

750
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 10: bit differently. But I always said, you can play him

751
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 10: full time at corner, get maximum value there, and then

752
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 10: moonlight him a little bit as a wide receiver and

753
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 10: sort of get that value there.

754
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 8: You can't do the opposite.

755
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 10: You can't have a guy play full time at wide

756
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 10: receiver and then say hey, go go play a couple

757
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 10: of plays at corner or at least it's really damn

758
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 10: difficult to do that. So that's why I was a

759
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,959
Speaker 10: big proponent of him playing cornerback because our wins above

760
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 10: average model sort of spoke to that value there.

761
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: Does Pro Football Focus have Hall of Fame grades?

762
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 8: I don't know if we do.

763
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 10: Our data goes back to two thousand and six, and

764
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 10: I know that that every year we kind of try

765
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 10: to take the data a little bit further, you know,

766
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 10: like we'll watch a bunch of the season for five

767
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 10: before all those kinds of things.

768
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: But I'm not sure.

769
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 10: I'm not sure if we have a specific Hall of

770
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 10: Fame grades for all those guys that are in the Hall.

771
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, even those who could get in the Hall

772
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 2: of Fame, like pending Hall of famers.

773
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 10: Yes, we definitely would, certainly, certainly, certainly if they're recent guys, Yes.

774
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: Like Russell Wilson.

775
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: Is Russell Wilson, by your metrics, already a Hall of Famer?

776
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean that's a that is a great question.

777
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 10: I wouldn't be able to answer off the top of

778
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 10: my head. But I do know that Russell has a

779
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 10: ton of value. Again, Like I know that just from

780
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 10: off the top of my head. If you were making

781
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 10: a case for Russell Wilson to make the Hall of Fame,

782
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,959
Speaker 10: his wins above average numbers I think would really help

783
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 10: him in that case, Like I really do. I think

784
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 10: that's a it's a great case study, it's a great

785
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 10: you might have just given me a future article to write.

786
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 3: Over at PFF dot com.

787
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 10: They're looking at some of those guys who are active

788
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 10: players and might have a Hall of Fame case. But

789
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 10: I do know off the top of my head that

790
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 10: that that would be a metric that would help him,

791
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 10: because I've seen him at the very top of that

792
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 10: list a handful of times.

793
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 2: Great to talk to you. We'll talk to you during

794
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: the season. Thank you, Trevor. Appreciate DP anytime. Trevor Sikama