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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get

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Speaker 1: into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving

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Speaker 1: connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really

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Speaker 1: been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it

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Speaker 1: if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe

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Speaker 1: to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all,

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Speaker 1: Now time for the episode. On Theme is a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media.

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Speaker 2: I'm Katie and I'm Eves.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode Branding While Black, So Katie, I have a

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Speaker 1: fraught relationship with personal branding. I am not the most

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Speaker 1: comfortable person on social media, but I understand the pressures

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Speaker 1: of feeling the need to personal brand. And when I

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Speaker 1: say personal brand, I'm thinking create a very molded and

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Speaker 1: shaped and crafted story about ourselves on social media and

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Speaker 1: on the Internet. And I know that it can feel

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Speaker 1: like a part of marketing, but too honestly, it's a

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Speaker 1: part of storytelling because we are telling stories about ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And I just wondered, does that look different for black

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Speaker 1: people than it does for everybody else? How do you

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Speaker 1: feel about personal branding?

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Speaker 3: I find it more of an evil than a necessary evil.

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Speaker 3: I try not to do it at all. I try

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Speaker 3: to resist as much as possible, especially I think with

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Speaker 3: online personal branding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there are a lot of downsides to

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Speaker 1: personal branding and to having to do it and having

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Speaker 1: to be visible on the Internet in a way that

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Speaker 1: is compartmentalized. But I know that there are also upsides

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Speaker 1: to it. It's a very complicated topic and for that reason,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to talk to Bridget Todd of the podcast

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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 4: My name is Bridget Todd, I you shee her pronouns,

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Speaker 4: and I am the creator and host of iHeartRadio's techn

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Speaker 4: culture podcast called There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: Someone with a great personal brand. I'd say yes, definitely.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into our conversation with Bridget. Hi, Bridget,

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Speaker 1: welcome to one theme. We are so happy to have

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Speaker 1: you here today.

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Speaker 4: Uh Eve's my podcast play Cousin. I am so excited

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Speaker 4: to be here.

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Speaker 1: So I have a lot of feelings about social media

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Speaker 1: and about what branding means, and I definitely rub up

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Speaker 1: against some friction a lot of the time when I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about what branding means and kind of feeling compelled

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Speaker 1: to come up with the brand and do the active branding.

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Speaker 1: But I am wondering, since you're very in tune with

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Speaker 1: social media and digital media strategy, what exactly does personal

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Speaker 1: branding mean to you?

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Speaker 4: To me, personal branding is very powerful. It's a necessary

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Speaker 4: way to show up online. It is a necessary way

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Speaker 4: to make sure that the people that you want to

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Speaker 4: be in conversation with, the people that you want to

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Speaker 4: give you money to make things that they think of

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Speaker 4: you when they think of whatever it is.

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Speaker 5: That you specialize in.

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Speaker 4: However, I would also say personal branding is really exhausting.

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Speaker 4: I think that it's something that we are forced to

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Speaker 4: do because we live in a capitalistic, white supremacy society

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Speaker 4: that kind of forces us to be not just making

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Speaker 4: the thing and excited about making the thing, but selling

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Speaker 4: how we make the thing.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, I just don't.

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Speaker 4: I think that any conversation about personal branding also has

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Speaker 4: to be rooted with the fact that sometimes it feels

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Speaker 4: like we are forced to do that kind of work

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Speaker 4: in addition to the work that we want to be doing.

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Speaker 3: So, given your stance on personal branding, give us your

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Speaker 3: personal brand a bio.

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Speaker 2: Tell us who we are?

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Speaker 5: Oh man, so who I am?

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Speaker 4: And as it pertains to my how I've branded myself personally.

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Speaker 3: Or like yeah, like if we were if I was

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Speaker 3: a big shot in an elevator who had the money, like,

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Speaker 3: what would you say to get some off of me?

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Speaker 4: First of all, I would say, if you're a billionaire,

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Speaker 4: you probably didn't get that money ethically.

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Speaker 5: So you want to say it funds.

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Speaker 4: Your conscient No, no, no, no, well no. I did want

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Speaker 4: to get drunk at a party with very rich people

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Speaker 4: and I asked somebody how much their house costs.

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Speaker 5: My friend was like, that's such a rude question.

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Speaker 2: We'll do that when I'm not drunk.

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Speaker 4: So if I was in an elevator with a big

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Speaker 4: shot media professional, I would say that along with my

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Speaker 4: amazing team, with folks like Tari Harrison and Joey Pat,

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Speaker 4: I make conversations about technology and the policy and the

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Speaker 4: people that run it. I make those accessible, and I

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Speaker 4: make those in ways that highlight the reality that it

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Speaker 4: is traditionally marginalized people who make technology what it is.

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Speaker 4: And so we're fostering and curating conversations that really deepen

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Speaker 4: the perspective of black folks, queer folks, black women, trans folks,

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Speaker 4: working people, all the kinds of people that are often

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Speaker 4: left out of conversations about technology, the Internet, social media,

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Speaker 4: what it means, and the policy.

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Speaker 5: That shapes it.

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Speaker 4: We start there, like that is our starting point for

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Speaker 4: those conversations.

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Speaker 6: I can tell you've done that before, Bridget.

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Speaker 2: I give you some money.

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna know, right, money please, So when you

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Speaker 3: are thinking about personal branding, like because I've went to

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Speaker 3: your website and I was and I listened to your show,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I truly don't know anything else about you

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Speaker 3: besides what you like put out there that's pertaining to

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Speaker 3: your professional career. Like I don't know if you've got

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Speaker 3: a man, you got a woman, you got kids, I

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Speaker 3: don't know nothing. I'm like, I'm nosy and I want

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Speaker 3: to know those things. But I feel like you personally,

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Speaker 3: like purposely, don't put those out there. So like, what

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Speaker 3: story are you focused on telling? And what story are you? Like, No,

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Speaker 3: that's a distraction for why I'm trying to get at Katie.

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Speaker 4: That is a very like that is you're good with

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Speaker 4: your Internet sleuthing because you would have to dig pretty

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Speaker 4: deep I think to find out personal information about me,

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Speaker 4: And that is very much with intention and by design,

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Speaker 4: and I think It goes back to what I personally

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Speaker 4: have found about my branding is that because I find

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Speaker 4: personal branding and sort of storytelling about myself online, I

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Speaker 4: find it kind of exhausting and I don't really like

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Speaker 4: participating in it that much these days, but I know

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Speaker 4: I kind of have to because of the career that

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Speaker 4: I'm in.

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Speaker 5: I am very intentional about it.

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Speaker 4: I almost would use the phrase like, you know, kind

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Speaker 4: of neutrally manipulative.

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Speaker 5: I don't want any I only want someone.

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Speaker 4: To be able to say like, oh, well, she does

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Speaker 4: x y Z kind of work, she's interested in x

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Speaker 4: y Z kind of projects. And part of it is

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Speaker 4: because you know, I care quite a bit about my

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Speaker 4: work and my professional identity, but my real identity, the

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Speaker 4: people that I love, my community, my values, all of that.

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Speaker 4: I kind of hold that a bit closer to my

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Speaker 4: chest because I don't want that to be something that

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Speaker 4: is a personal an exhaustive personal branding exercise. Right like

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Speaker 4: when I'm spending time with my family, I don't want

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Speaker 4: to feel that I have to be digitally curating a

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Speaker 4: story about that time. Otherwise it doesn't count. That's just

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Speaker 4: like not a not a dynamic. I'm really interested in

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Speaker 4: bringing into certain parts of my life. But I'm happy

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Speaker 4: to talk about it.

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Speaker 5: With you all. In terms of how I brand myself,

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Speaker 5: it doesn't really show up.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I've no zy, I want to know. I'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that after Katie.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm curious how is it shown up for like

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Speaker 4: how do you two as creatives and hosts and people

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Speaker 4: who have platforms and make things like how do you

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Speaker 4: How have you found that dynamic?

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Speaker 2: I think we approach very differently.

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Speaker 6: Say more about that.

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Speaker 3: I think cause like I don't have like a website

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Speaker 3: about myself or anything I've taken into like also not

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Speaker 3: like really posting anything about my like family, and I

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Speaker 3: used to I felt like people would ask me questions.

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Speaker 3: I just felt like I had to answer, like and

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Speaker 3: it's like so silly to say it was like you

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Speaker 3: actually don't have to tell people things just because they

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Speaker 3: ask you that, Like, oh, guy Ross is asking me

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Speaker 3: about my grandpa, I have to tell him and I'm

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Speaker 3: just like, oh no, I don't. So like I've tapered

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Speaker 3: off of that. I feel like I've grown into like

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Speaker 3: cause like in my personal life, I'm very like to myself,

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Speaker 3: like I don't even be telling my friends like every

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Speaker 3: single thing. So I'm like, why am I telling the

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Speaker 3: internet every single thing? And I think I got to

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Speaker 3: that very quickly. It's like, actually, I don't like this,

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Speaker 3: Like I feel like I don't really have a curated

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Speaker 3: personal brand. Maybe my personal brand is like not having one,

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Speaker 3: like being mysterious, I would like think. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: my agent was like, you need to have a website

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Speaker 3: and you need to do this, and I'm just like, hmm,

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Speaker 3: I hear you, but I'm not going to do that.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, they tried to do the same thing to me,

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Speaker 1: like back in like years ago when I first started

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Speaker 1: hosting pop they were like, you should probably set up

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Speaker 1: a Twitter. I mean, and look how that's gone today,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I mean, I have felt compelled to

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Speaker 1: be to have a public presence, but that that feeling

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Speaker 1: of being compelled has never actually led me to do

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Speaker 1: anything that I'm uncomfortable with because at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, I know that I have control over what

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Speaker 1: I choose to share with people and how I choose

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Speaker 1: to share it. So I have found myself telling myself

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Speaker 1: that I want to share more, but if that doesn't

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Speaker 1: show up right in my body, then I don't do it,

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Speaker 1: so I have shared more in the places where I

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Speaker 1: feel most comfortable, which for me oftentimes that is if

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Speaker 1: it's on social media, then that's in the Instagram space.

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Speaker 1: But if that's outside on the internet, like you know,

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Speaker 1: just the articles that I write in the podcast that

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Speaker 1: I produce, those are spaces where I know that I

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Speaker 1: have creative more creative control, and they're subject to scrutiny

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Speaker 1: in different ways, or at least more measured scrutiny. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I have a personal brand either, but I

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Speaker 1: think maybe one has been construct it for me and

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Speaker 1: my chosen interest. Actually, speaking of this bridget we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this before in the title of public intellectual and

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Speaker 1: how that's something that is like I would be labeled

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Speaker 1: as regardless whether or.

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Speaker 6: Not I would choose to call myself that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you are one.

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Speaker 4: I don't think somebody comes down from the sky. And

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Speaker 4: as like Eves, I w a public intellectual.

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Speaker 5: You are one.

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Speaker 4: You publicly opined and have good takes and good opinions,

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Speaker 4: and you're part of the public conversation and people look

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Speaker 4: to you. The people who are listening to on theme,

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Speaker 4: they listen to the both of you to help them understand,

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Speaker 4: you know, what they should be help shape their own opinions,

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Speaker 4: and so yeah, I think.

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Speaker 5: You are a public intellectual.

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Speaker 4: Even if you don't feel like you would ever call

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Speaker 4: yourself one, you both definitely are.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm getting a therapy session right now

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Speaker 1: for helping me work through some things.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 4: Also, think about all the kinds of people who wouldn't

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Speaker 4: feel like I just know a lot of people who

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Speaker 4: are like, oh, I'm a X Y Z expert, and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I feel like experts the kind of

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Speaker 4: thing that other people have to call you.

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Speaker 5: It's you're calling yourself one.

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Speaker 4: That's interesting, and I think more people who have actual

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Speaker 4: good things to offer the world should take ownership of

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Speaker 4: those labels that mean so much.

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Speaker 2: So, what would you say you're an expert in?

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Speaker 4: Oh? God, nothing, No, that's not true. I am an

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Speaker 4: expert in this is a good question. I am an

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Speaker 4: expert in curiosity. I know that's kind of a cop

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Speaker 4: out answer, but you know, like, that's one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons why I love podcasting is that you really just

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Speaker 4: get to poke and product people. And you know, Katie,

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Speaker 4: you said something earlier and Eves was like, Oh, tell

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Speaker 4: me more about that. If there was a question that

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Speaker 4: animates my entire existence in this world and is probably

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Speaker 4: tell me more about that, because I am just genuinely

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Speaker 4: very curious about who people are, what motivates them, their values,

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Speaker 4: where they see themselves, how see the world.

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Speaker 5: So I think I'm an expert in curiosity.

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Speaker 1: So you have your own personal experience with personal branding,

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Speaker 1: but when you see other people and the ways that

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Speaker 1: they choose to personal brand in public, what are your

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Speaker 1: feelings about that? Like, do you have any sort of

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Speaker 1: initial emotions that come up when you think of the

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Speaker 1: ways that people have to personal brand on the Internet.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if anybody can relate to this feeling,

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Speaker 4: But lately I have made a lot of intentional efforts

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Speaker 4: to sort of step back and be a little more

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Speaker 4: selective about my how my own brand shows up online,

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Speaker 4: and also I've made the choice to care a little

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Speaker 4: bit less about it and say, like, if I want

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Speaker 4: to be a kick ass podcaster, I'm going to lean

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Speaker 4: into podcasting and the personal branding stuff can come second,

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Speaker 4: and that's okay. However, lately I have felt like when

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Speaker 4: I scroll social media, I am just constantly being bombarded

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Speaker 4: with the ways that I'm getting it wrong the ways

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Speaker 4: that I'm like, oh, you're not making reels, you should

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Speaker 4: be making tiktoks like this. You should be offering your

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Speaker 4: your audience. If you want to grow, do that. And

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Speaker 4: I think part of that is just the nature of

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Speaker 4: social media algorithms. It seems like every other month at

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Speaker 4: a mos Aria, the head of Instagram will be like, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: last month we told creators if they wanted to use

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Speaker 4: Instagram to the best of their ability, they should be

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Speaker 4: doing X.

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Speaker 5: Now it's why.

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Speaker 4: And I realized that I just have no interest in

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Speaker 4: being on this hamster wheel while where I have to be,

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Speaker 4: you know, responding to the whims of billionaires who run

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Speaker 4: tech platforms who I will never meet, right, And so

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Speaker 4: I've made that decision for myself. But I don't feel

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Speaker 4: like it's very easy to sit in that choice all

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Speaker 4: the time, because constantly I'm bombarded by people who are

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Speaker 4: doing it right or have the answer, or want to

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Speaker 4: sell me the answer. I often find other people's personal

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Speaker 4: branding a little bit exhausting, and it's so just like

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Speaker 4: me projecting my own insecurities and anxiety around it onto them,

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Speaker 4: like they're not doing anything wrong. But it sometimes it

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Speaker 4: seems hard to just exist online without constantly branding yourself

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Speaker 4: and constantly selling people on who you are. Like, whatever

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Speaker 4: happened to kicking it online or having fun online or

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Speaker 4: finding community online in a way that wasn't like just

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Speaker 4: intentionally branding yourself as some sort of expert in your field.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but that also makes me think about how corporations

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Speaker 1: and commercial institutions, how their anxieties and their issues have

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Speaker 1: been projected onto us, and how we've kind of had

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Speaker 1: to co op them in our own efforts to survive

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Speaker 1: and live in this world. And I'm wondering if you

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Speaker 1: see any differences in the way that Black people have

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Speaker 1: had to operate in that space of being forced to

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Speaker 1: personal brand to live, and how people of other races

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Speaker 1: have operated in that space.

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Speaker 6: Do you feel differently about them? Do you see a

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Speaker 6: difference between the two.

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Speaker 4: I do see a difference. I think the stakes are

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Speaker 4: different for us, you know. I mean, I think historically

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Speaker 4: we have a lot less access, So we have a

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Speaker 4: lot less access to platforms and spaces and traditional media outlets,

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Speaker 4: and we've really had to build our own platforms and

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Speaker 4: spaces and media outlets. If you want to be heard

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Speaker 4: and want to be able to show up as our

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Speaker 4: authentic selves.

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Speaker 5: That is a gift.

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Speaker 4: That is a gift that we as black folks have

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Speaker 4: always had, is building our own tables when we're not

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Speaker 4: invited to other people's stables, Right, So I want to

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Speaker 4: honor the fact that that is a truly a gift

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Speaker 4: and a legacy.

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Speaker 5: So I'm not knocking that.

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Speaker 4: However, I think that because of that, we kind of

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Speaker 4: always have to be doing that, and like there's a

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Speaker 4: feeling that if you stop doing that, you'll cease to

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Speaker 4: exist or you'll cease to get those opportunities. And I

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Speaker 4: actually really do believe that. I think that if I

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Speaker 4: were to take a year off of social media or

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Speaker 4: a year off of making my podcast, I think that

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Speaker 4: it would be that much harder for me to come

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Speaker 4: back because people will be like, oh, what, like, in

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Speaker 4: that year, I didn't see you constantly posting what awards

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Speaker 4: you were winning, or constantly and posting what content you

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Speaker 4: were making, So I guess you didn't exist, right, And

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Speaker 4: So I think that because of these because of the

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Speaker 4: way that historically we have been shut out of that

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Speaker 4: kind of access, I think it creates this kind of

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Speaker 4: need to be doing something that luckily we're quite good at,

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Speaker 4: which is building our own platforms, And I just, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just want to make sure that when we talk

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Speaker 4: about that, we're talking about it in a way that

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Speaker 4: both honors how great that is, but also is tuned

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Speaker 4: into how tough that can be, that feeling can be,

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Speaker 4: to be like, oh, I can't even take a break

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Speaker 4: for a moment, I always have to be branding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if we're already black people, is the way I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about already subject to so much scrutiny because even

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Speaker 1: when we're visible in the very smallest of ways. So

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Speaker 1: what do you think that kind of loop of visibility,

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Speaker 1: of having to be present at all times just by

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Speaker 1: nature of the Internet, but also because we're black, How

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Speaker 1: does does that affect like how we are treated in

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Speaker 1: terms of our visibility and hyper visibility.

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Speaker 4: Hypervisibility is a good word for it, because it's like,

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Speaker 4: as black folks who show up online, we're both hyper visible,

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Speaker 4: but in a lot of ways erased or overlooked. And

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Speaker 4: it's just very interesting to me how you can sort.

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Speaker 5: Of be both.

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Speaker 4: I've had accomplishments in my life where things happen in

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Speaker 4: my life that I don't put on social media and

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Speaker 4: people act like they don't exist, and so I'm really

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Speaker 4: challenging myself to sort of resist that internally. And I

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Speaker 4: really think about this quote from MICHAELA. Cole when I

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Speaker 4: think she won an Emmy, and she said, in a

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Speaker 4: world that entices us to browse through the lives of

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Speaker 4: others to help us better determine how we feel about ourselves,

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Speaker 4: and to in turn feel the need to be constantly visible.

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Speaker 4: For visibility these days seems to somehow equate to success.

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Speaker 4: Do not be afraid to disappear from it, from us

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Speaker 4: for a while and see what comes to you in

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Speaker 4: the silence. And I have always found so much power

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Speaker 4: in that quote, because when you have that silence and

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Speaker 4: that space where there aren't eyes on you, for me,

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Speaker 4: that has equated to really making something I'm proud of,

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Speaker 4: or really being able to lean into something right.

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Speaker 5: And so I think that in a.

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Speaker 4: World that tells us that visibility is success, not being

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Speaker 4: afraid to step back and go invisible, go dark for

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Speaker 4: a little bit, you know, I think it's really powerful

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Speaker 4: to be able to do that and understand what the

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Speaker 4: power in that in a world that tells you always have.

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Speaker 5: To be showing yourself and branding yourself more.

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Speaker 1: With bridget after this break. Have you ever taken a

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Speaker 1: social media break?

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Speaker 5: Oh? All the time? I mean I'm not. I'm not

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Speaker 5: somebody who will be like, hey, guys taking a.

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Speaker 3: Break, Like like, nobody cares, my girl.

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Speaker 2: You could have kept that to yourself'll take a nap, right, Like.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't have known if that was the algorithm or

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Speaker 1: them taking a break anyway.

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Speaker 4: I definitely take long breaks, short breaks, all the breaks

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Speaker 4: from social media, and I don't feel the need to

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Speaker 4: announce it. But isn't it so weird that you would

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Speaker 4: even feel the need to announce it, Like there's like

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Speaker 4: how many other things in your life. If you stop

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Speaker 4: doing it for a week or a month, would people

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Speaker 4: be like, oh, are you okay?

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Speaker 5: What's going on with you?

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Speaker 4: Like if you didn't play a certain game for a month,

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Speaker 4: do you think that you would feel the need to

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Speaker 4: like announce that to the world. I just think that

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Speaker 4: that really, to me illustrates how we're so caught up

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Speaker 4: in this idea that everybody, everybody has to be on

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Speaker 4: social media all the time, and that you know that's

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Speaker 4: not true, Like you can dip in, dip out, do

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Speaker 4: it as it feels comfortable and right to you, and

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Speaker 4: truly nothing will happen.

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Speaker 3: I think that also goes to the difference between personal

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Speaker 3: branding online versus personal branding like IRL, because I don't

399
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Speaker 3: think people paid that much more. People pay more attention

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Speaker 3: to the online then like there in person presence. So

401
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Speaker 3: like you're going to think about like what outfit you're

402
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Speaker 3: posting when you're posting online, and you're going to craft

403
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Speaker 3: your caption really well, and you're going to like have

404
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Speaker 3: all this thought. But when you're out in the streets,

405
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Speaker 3: you're looking a mess, You've got a bond it on,

406
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Speaker 3: and you're talking crazy to the people at American Deli,

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Speaker 3: Like you're not really thinking too much about your personal brand.

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Speaker 1: And when people apologize for that, they do it online,

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Speaker 1: like when they apologize for their public presence. I've seen

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Speaker 1: people say I had to where I couldn't go outside

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Speaker 1: today because I wasn't. They'll say things about like wearing makeup,

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Speaker 1: or wearing a bond it out or not being dressed

413
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Speaker 1: to the nons, you know, not having their faces beat

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Speaker 1: and apologize for that because they know that might show

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Speaker 1: up online in a certain way, but not necessarily because

416
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Speaker 1: they care about how that personal interaction in real life went.

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Speaker 6: So yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, by the way, i'm pro bonnet outside just

419
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Speaker 3: putting that up out.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying people will apologize for things like that

421
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Speaker 1: because they want to be perceived a certain way, because

422
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Speaker 1: they know their brand will show up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like the personal branding, Yeah, I'd like

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Speaker 3: the obsession with it doesn't really for I think for

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Speaker 3: most people, it doesn't show up outside unless you're like

426
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Speaker 3: on a panel or at a conference, but like just

427
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Speaker 3: how you move every day, I don't see that as much.

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Speaker 4: There is this weird kind of collapse that I see

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Speaker 4: between in real life and online evens where it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: somebody might have an interaction offline that is in some

431
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 4: ways authentically them because they're not branding it. It's just happening,

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00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 4: you know, off the cuff or whatever, and then go

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00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 4: online to talk about that interaction in a way that

434
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 4: is part of the brand. It's so interesting how these

435
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 4: online and offline realities have kind of collapsed. And I

436
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 4: do think that if something like in a lot of ways,

437
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 4: the digital realm has become more real than reality in

438
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 4: some ways where it only sort of matters how it

439
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 4: shows up online, or how it's branded online and how

440
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 4: it shows up in reality is a lot In a

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00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 4: lot of cases, it's a lot less important to folks.

442
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, for sure, are you familiar with the

443
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: Google for faces pim eyes? Oh?

444
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: Yes, so I just learned about that, I think last week.

445
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with the use?

446
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 3: So it's basically like, if say I have a picture

447
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 3: of you, and you can have a mask on, you

448
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: can have your eyes closed, you can be like looking

449
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 3: a different way. I can put that into that and

450
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: it would show every instance where your face appears online,

451
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 3: whether you posted it, whether you're just like in the

452
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 3: background of somebody else's picture, just everything, And like learning

453
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: about that really just like made me want to just

454
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: go further away from not branding myself. Like I was, like,

455
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 3: I want to remove every picture of myself from online,

456
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 3: just because like I think when we first started doing this,

457
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: I would say like for us, maybe like the early

458
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 3: twenty tens, we had no idea like what the internet

459
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: was going to be, and so like now in twenty

460
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 3: twenty four, I feel like we still don't have a

461
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 3: true idea, but we see a little bit more and

462
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: to me, it's like very scary what the internet is

463
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: about to be.

464
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I completely agree.

465
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 4: You know, I think I might be a little older

466
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 4: than both of you, But I remember when I first

467
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 4: got Facebook. I was an undergrad in college and I

468
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 4: graduated college in two thousand and seven, two thousand and seven,

469
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 4: and this was when the main thing was like, you

470
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 4: are connecting with your friends, You are going out to

471
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 4: a nightclub, you are taking.

472
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 5: A thousand pictures from.

473
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 4: That single outing, posting all of them pistays, and all

474
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 4: of them for sure pit stains. Yeah, like albums, right,

475
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 4: And so I think that was sort of that the heyday,

476
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 4: when we really really kind of it was easy to

477
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 4: think of this as something that was about connection. Here

478
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four, I don't think that anybody feels

479
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 4: like social media platforms are offering us genuine connection anymore.

480
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 4: I think what they're offering us is exploitation. I think

481
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 4: what they're offering us is anxiety. I think what they're

482
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,239
Speaker 4: offering us is surveillance, criminalization, all kinds of things. And

483
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: I think that you know that idea of connecting with

484
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 4: your friends, even if you look at your if you

485
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 4: if you open Instagram right now and scroll your you know.

486
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 5: Whatever their version of their feed.

487
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 4: A lot of the stuff that you're being shown is

488
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 4: it from your friends or people that you've opted to follow.

489
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 4: It's algorithmically generated content that they want you to see

490
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 4: that they think that you might like, right, And so

491
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: I think that what is I think we should be

492
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,959
Speaker 4: asking what that means for our role in all of this,

493
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 4: how we fit into that if social media platforms are

494
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 4: going to go to a place where it's more about

495
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 4: like surfacing you content than connection.

496
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 5: So if you're no longer connecting with your.

497
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,479
Speaker 4: Friends, are we all like Katie Eves and Bridget are

498
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 4: we all now de facto content creators?

499
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 5: Or or what like? Are we the audience here?

500
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 4: I think that we really need to have a more

501
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 4: refined role in how we fit into this because the

502
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 4: two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, two thousand

503
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 4: and eight days are like way behind us in terms

504
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 4: of how this is all working.

505
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: We're living in president at times, but we've been doing

506
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 3: so for for a while now. It's not like, oh,

507
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: we have like one one event that happens. It's like

508
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 3: ooh that was unpresidented, Glad that's over. It's just like

509
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 3: all of it, like the evolution of it is just like,

510
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: oh my god, like what's the next what are.

511
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: We going to do?

512
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 3: And as a podcaster, Bridget, I'm interested in getting your

513
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: take on like who owns our personal brands? Because it

514
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: sounds like, oh, it's our personal brand, we own it.

515
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: But you know, like as.

516
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: Contractors, like do we own those or is it you

517
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: know XYZ Corporation media conglomerate that owns our personal branding?

518
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: What do you think about that?

519
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 5: Well?

520
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 4: As a company girl, I have to shout out the

521
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 4: good folks that iHeart radio definitely own my brand and

522
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 4: all of the things that come with it.

523
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 5: No, I'm kidding.

524
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 4: I mean I think your question is it's like a

525
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 4: really good one. I am I might be a weird

526
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 4: person to ask because I'm particular about ownership, right If

527
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 4: you ever watched that show Breaking Bad and Walter White,

528
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,239
Speaker 4: one of the reasons it's like revealed by that one

529
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 4: of the reasons why he's so weird about his meth

530
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 4: recipe is that he was cut out of a cut

531
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 4: out of a deal when he was a scientist and

532
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 4: he didn't have ownership over a product that he made,

533
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 4: and it like stuck with him. I kind of feel

534
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 4: like that's a little bit of my origin story too,

535
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 4: where I am a real I am very particular about ownership.

536
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 4: I would rather get screwed on the money and have

537
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 4: more ownership of something. I don't know if that's like

538
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 4: the best choice, but part of it is because of

539
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: that discomfort around who owns what. I just hate the

540
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 4: idea that something that I create right, something that I conceptualized,

541
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 4: that I put my heart and soul into, that came

542
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 4: from me, that was that was colored by all of

543
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 4: the experiences that I have brought with me to this world,

544
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 4: that somebody else could be like, oh well, that's just

545
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 4: another point in our annual sales meeting about how we're

546
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 4: doing right. So like I am very I'm like very

547
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 4: weird about that kind of thing, and I do. I mean,

548
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 4: I've had situations where the line of ownership who owns

549
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 4: what about me and my work and my brand isn't

550
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 4: so clear, And so these days I'm trying to really

551
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: move through the creative professional world with a lot more

552
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 4: clarity about where the lines are about who owns what about?

553
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 4: You know, who has the final say, who has control,

554
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 4: who makes the money all of that because I think

555
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 4: it's I think you need to you know, I don't

556
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 4: want to get too into it, but like when I

557
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 4: was first coming up in podcasting, I've signed some deals

558
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 4: that I wish I had looked at a little closer,

559
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: because I would see, like, oh, I'm I'm inherently, both

560
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 4: in the work and on paper, just generating stuff for

561
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 4: other people. And so no matter how much of myself

562
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 4: I put into that, I'm only going to ever be

563
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 4: generating for others as supposed to generating for myself. And

564
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 4: so yeah, I feel a bit burned on that in

565
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 4: some ways and really trying to move now with a

566
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 4: little more clarity around it, but again as creative. So

567
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 4: it'd be really curious how you all are navigating that

568
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 4: as well.

569
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 5: Well.

570
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 6: I was just about to say you are.

571
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: You would not be the only person to say that, Bridget,

572
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: And I think it's like comforting to hear that coming

573
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: from you, a person who's worked on so many podcasts,

574
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: because these deals were happening then and they're still happening now,

575
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think pretty difficult to navigate because if

576
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: you're working with the company, there's going to be some

577
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: trade offs, and the question is that you have to

578
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: ask yourself, like what are those trade offs to you?

579
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 6: And what are the most important parts of it to you?

580
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: Those questions are often about ownership, and I think that

581
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: I in the past have not been like competent enough,

582
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: or I haven't had the team on my side, like

583
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: a good lawyer on my side to be able to

584
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: tell me what the right things were. So I've been

585
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: able to learn from crowdsourcing and the sharing of information,

586
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: which has been amazing.

587
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 4: Information is power. If anybody listening wants like DM me,

588
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 4: I will, I will give you my contracts, I'll give

589
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: you my lawyer's name, right, Like It's the only way

590
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 4: that we will ever take up more space in this

591
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: industry is if we share information. This mindset that like, oh,

592
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: we have to be cling to what you have because

593
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 4: you don't want her to get it or her to

594
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 4: get it. That's complete bullshit, Like there's enough room for

595
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 4: all of us. We need to have that mindset, and

596
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: we will all win and rise up when we share

597
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 4: information with each other.

598
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 5: And yeah, I to that point.

599
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: He's like, whenever I see companies that are hosting, like, oh,

600
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 4: we're doing a contest where if you submit your idea,

601
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: maybe we'll make your show. I'm always like in the

602
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 4: Instagram comments like, Hey, what's the ownership look like?

603
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 5: What's the IP look like? Great contest? Like do they

604
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 5: own it?

605
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: Like?

606
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 5: How does it work? What's the adsplit?

607
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 4: Yay?

608
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 5: Like that's me in the comments asking those questions.

609
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 3: I was at a festival and they had one of

610
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: those like activations like picture podcasts.

611
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 5: I was like, don't do.

612
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 4: Good.

613
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think for black people in podcasting and

614
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 1: in writing in general, I've come up against that question

615
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: of like what I choose to share and what I

616
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: don't choose to share because as a creator, it's it's

617
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: like the generative process and a part of the process

618
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: that there can be fear around. But it can be

619
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: important to share certain things and to not be afraid

620
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: to put yourself out there all the time. But especially

621
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 1: as black creators in American media, it's important for us

622
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 1: to protect ourselves and the work that we create. So

623
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: it can definitely be a fine line to tiptoe. We'll

624
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: be back with more conversation with bridget after this break.

625
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: I think it goes beyond just sharing information, honestly, Like

626
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: I can speak to it from the book publishing side

627
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: of it. And I'm getting like less than fifteen percent

628
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: of list price.

629
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: And I have done all the work on this book.

630
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 3: I thought of the idea, I've gotten all the people together,

631
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm designing it and I'm not a designer, but I'm

632
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: like showing the designer everything that I want to do.

633
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: I've written everything, I travel, you know, all these things,

634
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: and I'm getting less than fifteen percent of list price.

635
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 3: So like even if I told somebody that coming in,

636
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 3: like if I said, ease, I'm getting this much like okay,

637
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 3: like maybe you can get like one more person, but

638
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: like I don't know, I don't think like that's truly

639
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: going to make a change. And like a lot of

640
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 3: people's books are very personal, Like I don't know if

641
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 3: y'all read the memoir Heavy by Kisa Leiman, but it's

642
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: like a very personal book. And the books you've written before,

643
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: it's like got one thousand dollars total for those books,

644
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: And it's like this is the publishing industry, Like this

645
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: is what they do, like even if you're going to

646
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: be a really big name. So I think it goes

647
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 3: beyond sharing information and like actually, like you said, like

648
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: making our own thing and like having it cooperatively owned

649
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: and not like wanting to like cozy up with these

650
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 3: like big companies, which I know is like so like

651
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: hard to not think is really cool. But I feel

652
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: like every time I think something's really cool and I'm like, fuck,

653
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: this isn't cool.

654
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 4: It's not no, you know what, you know, those big

655
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 4: companies aren't cool.

656
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 5: You know what's cool? Katie's cool, Like you know, you're cool,

657
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 5: like it.

658
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: It's such a weird it's such a you're so right,

659
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: it's such a hard thing to turn off that being

660
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 4: associated with x y Z big brand or big company

661
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 4: or big publisher or big network or whatever that is going.

662
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 5: To make me feel successful. And it's just not true.

663
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 4: And it's like half the time those deals don't look

664
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 4: as shawny as they as they appear on the outside

665
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 4: on Instagram. Right, And you're so right that I think

666
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 4: it's not just information sharing. It goes beyond that of like,

667
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 4: here's the reality of what it looked like for me

668
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: to work with this company, so that you can decide

669
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 4: if it's worth it for you to work with this

670
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: company to only get X y Z of the price, right,

671
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 4: And I agree, I think it really has to go

672
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 4: back to building more abundant models for us to put

673
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: our stories and ideas out there that don't involve having

674
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 4: to cozy up with companies just because they have a

675
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 4: big name but a terrible reputation about how they treat people.

676
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I also think it goes back to the

677
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: personal branding, because I will be the first tie to say, like,

678
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 3: I'm like a I like making an announcement about my book,

679
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: Like I have a book deal with the biggest publisher

680
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: in the world, and it's just like, well, and I'm

681
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: not going to be like and I'm getting like shitty

682
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: royalties and like all this stuff like all that, you know,

683
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: because I want to get my Instagram like so off

684
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 3: and for people to buy the book to tell me congratulations.

685
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to like the personal branding,

686
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 3: like yeah.

687
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: And that makes me think about just going back to

688
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: our initial ideas around this about how personal branding is

689
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: a form of storytelling. We craft a certain story about

690
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: ourselves when we're telling our personal brands. We choose to

691
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: give this, we choose not to give that. And I

692
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: pulled a definition from personal brand dot Com, which I

693
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: had no idea existed before this episode, but they specifically, say,

694
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: a personal brand is a widely recognized and largely uniform

695
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: perception or impression of an individual based on their experience, expertise, competencies, actions, YadA, YadA, YadA.

696
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 6: All the rest of that definition. You can go look

697
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 6: it up. But the point.

698
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: Is is that it's clearly a crafted thing. It is

699
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: when we create our personal brands, we are thinking. We're

700
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: being intentional about what we choose to share and what

701
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: we don't based on how we want to be seen.

702
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: So I know that we've used the word authentic a

703
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: couple of times in this conversation. I was wondering, Bridget,

704
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: if you think it's even possible for us to be

705
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: authentic and maintain a sense of self in how we

706
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: express ourselves when we are doing this personal branding.

707
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely not.

708
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 4: I mean I think I think, based on the definition

709
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 4: that you just read that I agree with and our

710
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 4: conversation here, I think it's I mean, I don't think

711
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 4: it's a lie.

712
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 5: You know, when Katie says like.

713
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: Oh, I have this great book, deal with this great

714
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 4: publisher and all of that, leaving out the bit about

715
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 4: the parts that maybe aren't so exciting that she's not

716
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 4: doesn't not thrilled about.

717
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 5: That's not a lie. It's just selective.

718
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 4: It's just you're only getting a partial view into it

719
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 4: that Katie wants to control, right, And that makes all

720
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 4: the sense in the world. So I don't think it's

721
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 4: I don't think it's inauthentic to mean dishonest, but I

722
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 4: do think it's selective and we should all like have

723
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 4: that in our minds when we're scrolling Instagram, you know

724
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: every day that we're not getting the full lens into

725
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 4: whatever whatever is actually going on with you. But when

726
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 4: they're branding themselves online, like I'm not giving my full

727
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 4: self and how these things feel for me when I'm

728
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 4: branding myself, and I don't think the people that I'm

729
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 4: consuming their content.

730
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 5: I don't think that they are either.

731
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 4: And I would also add, like, I think that it's

732
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: really important to be branding yourself online if you're a

733
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 4: person making something in twenty twenty four. However, I think

734
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 4: that I've really found power in doing it, understanding that

735
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 4: I have to do it, but then not really putting

736
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 4: too much stock into it because how many likes my

737
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 4: stuff gets or whatever it feels good. Like it's like

738
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 4: a like who doesn't like it when they're when like

739
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 4: all their friends are in the comments like gay, good job.

740
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 4: But you really have to like have a sense of

741
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 4: what success looks like, like what nourishment looks like for you. Right, So,

742
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: Like I know stories that I want to tell, the

743
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 4: work I want to put out. I know how closely

744
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 4: it aligns with my actual values. Those are the kinds

745
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: of things that make me feel like a successful creative.

746
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 4: And I have to be really clear about that. They that,

747
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 4: like are the benchmarks of success for me? And what

748
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: are not the benchmarks of success for me?

749
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 5: What just like feels.

750
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 4: Good and if I'm having a bad day might give

751
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 4: me a pickup, right, And so I think it's important

752
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 4: to not conflate those two things.

753
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also think it's important to acknowledge how that

754
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: self selection, even though we have agency when we're doing it,

755
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: it can also be exhausting. Like just because we're doing

756
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: something we have control over doesn't mean that it doesn't

757
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 1: also take like a mental and spiritual toll on us

758
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: having to segment those parts of ourselves. Because black people

759
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: we have to compartmentalize in so many different ways already.

760
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: We have to be respectable sometimes, you know, we have

761
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: to tone shift. We have to do so many different

762
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: things of like how we think about how we appear

763
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: to other people in order to ensure our safety. So

764
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: when we self select in doing that and personal branding,

765
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: I think some of those things can also come up

766
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: around how it takes a toll on our bodies and

767
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: how it takes a toll on our spirits. And I

768
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: think that is also an important thing to acknowledge, because

769
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: both of those things can exist at the same time.

770
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 5: I'm so glad you said that.

771
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 4: And yeah, and it's so funny that you could be

772
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 4: crafting and in control of your personal brand, but still

773
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 4: very aware of like needing or wanting to come off

774
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 4: as a certain way, like more palatable or something.

775
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 5: And it's like, if there's ever a time where you

776
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 5: should be the person in.

777
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 4: Control of how you show up, it's like your little

778
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 4: corner of the Internet.

779
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 5: But I don't feel that way. I wonder if you

780
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 5: all feel that way.

781
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 4: You know, I don't really want to be in spaces

782
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 4: where I have to show up a certain way in

783
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 4: order to be accepted there. However, even as I curate

784
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 4: my little corner of my personal brand Internet, I am

785
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: aware of that sort that sort of double consciousness that

786
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: you're talking about.

787
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I feel like if I truly showed

788
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 3: up how I am, I would be on like an

789
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 3: FBI's most Wanted list.

790
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 5: We'd all have black black pillowcases in some secret room.

791
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: Like, girl, I ain't even trying to get that deep

792
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: with y'all for real.

793
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: Like, and then are often times of dissonance for me

794
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: where I feel like I'm branded a certain I can

795
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: go look at my website. Y'all know I'm Southern. Y'all

796
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna say y'all, y'all know I'm gonna be

797
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: in front of things. And then like you know, when

798
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: I'm in certain rooms, I mean, that's how I am,

799
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: That's my personality oftentimes, but you know that excuse me, yeah,

800
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: but that that there's a dissonance between my brand and

801
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: like how I do show up in some ways, not

802
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: necessarily because I am cutting off parts of myself, just

803
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: because I'm multiple people, Like I'm different ways in different places.

804
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: So also speaking of being multiple people and showing up

805
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: in different ways, I would have never expected you Bridget

806
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: to align yourself with Walter White.

807
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 6: But so that's something I wasn't expecting you to say.

808
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: There is one thing I wanted to say, just that

809
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: I think we would be remiss or I would be

810
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: remiss not to say that you were part of information

811
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: sharing for us, Bridget as we were doing this podcast,

812
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: Like you shared your contract with us. So when y'all

813
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: hear Bridget say that, know that she's telling the truth.

814
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: I would do the same. You know, anybody can come

815
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: to me. I will be transparent about that. And I

816
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: can't solve all your problems.

817
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 6: I'm not a lawyer.

818
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't know intellectual property law. You know, there are

819
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: other people who would need to be on your support team,

820
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: but I would be happy to be of whatever kind

821
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: of assistance.

822
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 6: I would like to be.

823
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, this is my favorite topic. Like I

824
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 4: will tell you how much money I make, down to

825
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 4: the penny. I will like, like, I'm curious about other

826
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 4: creatives how much money they make. There's so much smoke

827
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 4: and mirrors, so like I want to know how much

828
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 4: your house cost. I will ask the question, and I'm

829
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 4: happy to give that information back to others.

830
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: And now it is time for role credits, the segment

831
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: where we give credit to a person, place, or thing,

832
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 3: and we have Bridget joining us, But first Eves who

833
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 3: are what would you like to give credit to today?

834
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to t I'm not

835
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: a big coffee drinker, and I didn't become a big

836
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: warm tea specifically.

837
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 6: I'm an iced tea hater, so don't ask me why.

838
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: I don't like sweet tea and I'm from the South,

839
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: but I love hot tea.

840
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 6: I love drinking green tea in the morning.

841
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: I like macha, but I like other kinds of tea too,

842
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: And I can somehow handle the caffeine from tea, but

843
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: I can't handle the caffeine from coffee.

844
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 6: It makes me very dittery. But I love tea.

845
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: I like get and tea when I'm in different places.

846
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: And I don't know as much about it as I

847
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: would like to like. I would like to learn a

848
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: lot more. I know people who are master herbalists when

849
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: it comes to tea. But yeah, I want to give

850
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: a shout out to tea today.

851
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 2: Okay, Tea, what's tea? Brigit? What you've given a shout

852
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: out to given credit to me?

853
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 4: I'm going to give a shout out to journaling. I

854
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 4: have not been one to journal that often. I'm kind

855
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 4: of on and off. But I had a weird kind

856
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 4: of personal professional situation and I went back and was

857
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 4: reading my journal entries about it because I was like,

858
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 4: am I Am I being crazy here in reading my

859
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 4: journal entries. I like, no, actually, I'm being I'm very

860
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 4: clear on how I feel. And if I had not

861
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 4: written down how I felt through the situation, I think

862
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 4: I would have really second guessed myself and dabted myself.

863
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I don't I want to give it

864
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: up to journaling.

865
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 5: Keep a journal.

866
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: I would like to give credit to neighbors. I live

867
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 3: in a neighborhood where most of the people are like

868
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: old and retired, and you know, they see a young

869
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: hot bitch and they do you hate in a little bit.

870
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 3: But this past weekend they were not hating, and they

871
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: invited me over to their shindig that they have every

872
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: week and they never invite me to but they seem

873
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 3: nice and they kind of were just like, oh, like,

874
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: we didn't know how to invite you. And you kind

875
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 3: of forget that people are like weird and just like, oh,

876
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: like you're weird, they're weird. Like maybe they y'all are

877
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: both thinking weird things about each other. But it's fun

878
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 3: when you like have that like neighborly bond with someone

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00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 3: like you don't got to be friends, but like you

880
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 3: can be like in community and like you know, borrow

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00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 3: the lawnmower something. So give me credit to tea journaling

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00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 3: and neighbors.

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00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: All right, well then, Bridgie, can you tell everyone where

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00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 1: they can find you on the internet.

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00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 4: Be sure to listen to my podcast there are no

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00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 4: girls on the Internet twice a week.

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00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 5: You can find that on.

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00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And

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00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 4: you can find me on Instagram at bridget Marie ndc Perfect.

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00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us.

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00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 4: Thank you, this has been a dream. Thank you so

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00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 4: much for having me, and honestly, thanks so much to

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00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 4: you too. Congratulations to you and the whole team on

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00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: launching on Theme. You know, thank you for what you're

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00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 4: doing to elevate our stories. It's really such a beautiful

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00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: special thing.

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00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: So congratulations and we will see you next week.

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00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: Bye.

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00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 5: Hi.

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00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.

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00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: This episode written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It

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00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us on

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00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: Instagram at on themeshow. You can also send us an

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00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: email at hello at on Theme dot show. Head to

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00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: on themet Show to check out the show notes for episodes.

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00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

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00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,