1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Remember going hit the back 2 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: with him? Investigators say Bartow waited for his patient's guardians 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: to leave the exam room. More victims have come forward 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: to allege that he sexually abused them twenty years ago. 5 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: This predator should have been stopped. Victims came forward, but 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: no one would listen, No one would believe. If they 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: would have did their jobs properly like they're supposed to do, 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: it could have stopped. But no, they chose to give 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: a psycho back his ability to touch other children, which 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: he did. Wow, we're talking about a Pennsylvania pediatrician, doctor 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Johnny Bartow of Johnstown. Dozens and dozens victims coming forward. 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Joining me right now, doctor Wendy Dickinson, psychologist, founder of 13 00:00:54,320 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Grow Counseling, Stephen Lampley, a detective extraordinaire, renewund family and 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: divorce lawyer, Kathleen Murphy and joining me right now. Crime 15 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life, 16 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: The CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial. Robin we Lensky, Robin, 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: who is this guy? This is a male pediatrician for many, 18 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: many years, for decades, worked as part of a practice 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: at Laurel Pediatric Associates with other doctors and parents in 20 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: the area, would take their babies and their toddlers and 21 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: their teens for all kinds of treatments your kids, your 22 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: kid has a cold, the whole gamut, and he would 23 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: treat them. But clearly there was something very wrong going 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: on in the background with this guy for decades. You 25 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: know when you say clearly there was something going on 26 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: with this guy for decades, what do you mean by that. Well, 27 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: there were allegations, Nancy, that the kids, some of them 28 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: would go to their moms and dads say the doctor 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: touched them. Take a listen to our friend at WTAJ, 30 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: this is Lindsay Kennett. Investigators say Barto waited for his 31 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: patient's guardians to leave the exam room or would use 32 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: his body to hide the alleged assaults. Bartow's medical license 33 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: was revoked in January. Attorney General Joshapiro said this investigation 34 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: is ongoing and thanked the victims for their courage coming 35 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: forward doing It takes victims oftentimes a long time to 36 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: come to grips with what happened, for them to have 37 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: confidence that people will believe their truth and to come 38 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: forward and share what happened. That's very normal and that's 39 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: not something that victims should ever be criticized about. No 40 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: one should fear coming forward share that information with us. 41 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Have you noticed to doctor Wendy Dickinson, a psychologist, founder 42 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: of Grow Counseling, that the victims are now adult and 43 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: they are finally being her for the first time. For 44 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: those of you listening, if any one of you have 45 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: been a victim of doctor Johnny Bartow bias In brother Aarto, 46 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: or you know someone that has been his victim, please 47 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: call four one two, five, six, five, seven to six 48 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: eight zero repeat four one, two, five, six, five seven 49 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: six eight zero Doctor Wendy. What does that do to 50 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: a person to be molested by someone? Your parents take 51 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: you in, do you deliver you to the molester? Then 52 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: they don't believe you when you try to explain what happens. 53 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: It absolutely messens with children's development because it's outside the 54 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: scope of normal development. We ought to be able to 55 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: trust our caregivers, We ought to be able to be 56 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: believed by our caregivers, and we shouldn't have things introduced 57 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: into our world, sexual experiences, things that are beyond our 58 00:03:54,680 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: developmental level, and so it really affects children's ability to developed, 59 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: which continues to affect their ability to develop as adults. 60 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: And then when they look back as an adult with 61 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: a fully developed brain, they two things differently. They start 62 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: to understand what really happened, and it can actually be 63 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: ongoing levels of trauma, a trauma they experience as a 64 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: child and then a traumatic experience as an adult recognizing 65 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: what happened to them as a child. I earlier asked 66 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: who is Johnny Bartow? This is what I have learned. 67 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: This guy, doctor Johnny Bartow of Johnstown, spent decades abusing 68 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: children in the exam room there at his pediatric practice, 69 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: which was in western Pennsylvania. He also abused children at 70 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: local hospitals he opted. He chose to become a pediatrician 71 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: so he would always have a supply of children to molest. 72 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, some of them molest station has actually occurred 73 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: while the parents were in the room. I'm speechless, Nancy. 74 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: You asked who he was. This guy was such a 75 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: groomer that the people in the community said he groomed 76 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: our whole community. He held himself out as a very 77 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: specific good man, and when his charges first came out 78 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 1: in ninety eight. They held rallies for this guy. He 79 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: was so effective at convincing these parents that he was 80 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: a good man. Who were his typical victims? Robin wilensk Right, Nancy. 81 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: The people that he was molesting were little girls as 82 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: young as a two week old. I mean, how disgusting 83 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: is that? And these women, you know, you think about 84 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: it as a young girl. You have to turn the 85 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: clock back to when your mom would take you or 86 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: dad take you to the pediatrician. I can remember my 87 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: pediatrician and you go there and this is the doctor. 88 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: This is the guy with the name on the door 89 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: in possibly wearing a white lab coat, looking all official, 90 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: and you there's a trust factor that this is the 91 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: guy that's going to cure you of your sore throat 92 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: when you're a little five or six year old girl 93 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: or younger, and then this person is inappropriately touching you. 94 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: I can't think of anything worse. So bottom line is 95 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: typical victims were pre pubescent girls, one infant, some boys. 96 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: That is correct. Take a listen to what the Kness 97 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: reporter at WPAXI, Gordon Les discovers the Attorney General is 98 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: actually afraid there are so many victims, they're setting up 99 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: a hot line. The Attorney General, John Shapiro is setting 100 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: up a hot line tonight in order to find out 101 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: if there are any other victims of this pediatrician from Johnstown. 102 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Johnny Bard was first charged with abusing a twelve 103 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: year old patient in his office. After those allegations of 104 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: astigators say, a second person came forward. A girl who 105 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: was fourteen at the time, says doctor Bartow abused her 106 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: at a gathering in two thousand and two. Barto was 107 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: first charged in January after accusations from a patient of 108 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: Laurel Pediatric's associates in Richland Township. Please say, Bartow did 109 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: not deny the claims, but he did enter a not 110 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: guilty ply in court, and now the Attorney General fears 111 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: there are more victims. He tweeted, quote these charges are 112 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: deeply disturbing for anyone else out there who's been attacked 113 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: or abused, We will protect you and we will hold 114 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: this predator accountable for his crimes. Baro's medical license has 115 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: been suspended. He's being held now in the Cambria County Prison. Well, 116 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: here's the twist to that. To Stephen Lampley, renowned detective. 117 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: That was not the first time these charges had come up. 118 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: All the way back in two thousand, doctor Johnny Bartow 119 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: appeared before the Pennsylvania Board of met on administrative charges, 120 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: not criminal charges, that he molested two young girls in 121 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: the nineties, But that Board of Medicine threw out the 122 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: case let him keep practicing medicine, saying the allegations were 123 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: incongruous to his reputation. Do you hear me, Stephen? Two thousand, 124 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: that is nineteen years ago he came up before the 125 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: medical board about molesting children, and they threw it out, saying, well, 126 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: you know what, that doesn't fit with his reputation. We 127 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: believe his reputation over the two little girls. I mean, 128 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: that should have raised everyone's attention right there. You're correct, 129 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: Nancy should have, and it actually did. It was the 130 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: beginning in the stages of being prosecuted, as I understand, 131 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: until until the prosecuting attorney and the administrative judge that 132 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: was providing over the case originally were caught together at 133 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: a very menlow concert and had their picture made. That's 134 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: when the case when got transferred over to the Medical 135 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: Board for their review, and then they decided that there 136 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: was there was not enough evidence that he was not 137 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: his reputation or his background. But you know, Mancy, you 138 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: and I both know it starts somewhere Robert Willinsky. I 139 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: didn't know that the prosecutor and the alj administrative law 140 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: judge that said there wasn't enough evidence they were at 141 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: a very menlow concert together. Yeah. How cozy is that? 142 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: I mean, this guy had a lot of tentacles into 143 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: the community, and in addition to being cozy at the concern, 144 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: he knew all these other people in the town that 145 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: came out and did all these rallies in support of him. 146 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,479 Speaker 1: So he had a lot of tentacles in the community 147 00:09:52,840 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: and people were supporting him and covering crime stories with 148 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm here outside the Richland Township Police Department 149 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: where Attorney General Josh Shapiro announced nearly seventy charges against Barto, 150 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: accusing him of sexually abusing twenty nine more victims. Monday morning, 151 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: investigators filed additional charges of sexual abuse against former pediatrician 152 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: Johnny Jack Barto. Investigators say the seventy year old sexually 153 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: assaulted patients at Laurel Pediatric Associates and Konama Hospital. The 154 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: alleged abuse dates back to the late nineteen eighties, and 155 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: the victims include boys and girls of all ages, even 156 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: a two week old baby girl. Barto is accused of 157 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: inappropriately touching the victim's breasts and genitals. Doctor bart To 158 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 1: used his power and position of authority as their pediatrician 159 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: to abuse them in those instances to feed his own 160 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: sick desire. After the administrative board the Board of Medicine 161 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: cleared him, he apparently felt invincible. He felt that he 162 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: could do anything, and he continued molesting dozens of children. 163 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: In fact, the whole community believed him. He became an 164 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: elected school board member after the allegation. Hundreds of supporters 165 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: flatly disbelieved he could be a pedophile, even though multiple 166 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: children kept telling the same story. There was so much 167 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: community support. There was one instance where ribbons were distributed 168 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: at a high school football game when he fought the 169 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: allegations back in the nineties. How do you think it 170 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: made those two little girls feel? Where everybody in the 171 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: football stadium is wearing a ribbon to support the man 172 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: that molested you. I wonder what happened to those two girls, 173 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: But I could tell you what's going to happen to 174 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: doctor Johnny Bartow? A central Pennsylvania pediatrician, is now facing 175 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: dozens of child molestation charges after police say more victims 176 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: have come forward to allege that he sexually abused them. Today, 177 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: the Attorney General's Office filed sixty nine new counts against 178 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: Johntown physician Johnny Bartow. Charging documents alleged that Bartow fond 179 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: old girls and boys, often under the guise of treatment, 180 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: and in some cases drawing heated complaints from their parents. 181 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: We are standing here together in Richland Township to hold 182 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: doctor Bartow accountable, to say that we hear the victims truth, 183 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: and that this person will never see the light of 184 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: day again. The seventy year old is accused of indecent assault, 185 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: child endangerment, an account of involuntary deviant sexual inter As 186 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: Bartow sat listening in court, victims described, one after the next, 187 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: in minute detail, what happened, what he was wearing for incess, 188 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: a striped purple shirt, what the room looked like, burgundy 189 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: carpeting on the walls, orange chairs, a teal steel, What 190 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: he did to them and how it made them feel. 191 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:31,239 Speaker 1: One victim says she can still feel Barto's cold hands 192 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: on her, and can still hear that examination table paper 193 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: crinkling underneath her body, and that the sounds doctor Barto 194 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: made during the molestation will haunt her, she says until 195 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: the day she dies. Another victim says, because of what 196 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: Barto did to her, she rarely will see a doctor, 197 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: and she's terrified of taking her children to a doctor. 198 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: Another victim says she showers in the dark because she 199 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: is ashamed. They describe lifelong struggles of being depressed, anxious, 200 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: panic attacks, distrust. They say, quote, I've lived my life 201 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: in pain, hopelessness, and despair. They're now adults, doctor Wendy Dickinson, 202 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: and they're still played and tormented by what this doctor did. Absolutely, 203 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: the effects of trauma can continue well throughout our lifetime. 204 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, these are significantly disruptive activities in a child's life, 205 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: and it changes the course in trajectory of how they 206 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: see the world, how they see themselves, what they internalize 207 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: about themselves. Trauma trauma is significant and the effects are 208 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: life changing. You know. To Kathleen Murphy, who is in 209 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: North Carolina expert in family law, the wife Bartow's wife says, 210 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: quote He's been lying to me about everything for all 211 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: of the fifty two years I have known him. He 212 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: spent his whole sinister life lying and sneaking around so 213 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: he could carry on his abuse uninterrupted. And she sides 214 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: with the victims. Yeah, that's what the wife said. She 215 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: had no idea. I'm still saying my same response what 216 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: doctor Johnny Bartow's wife says. Quote, he has been lying 217 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: to me about everything for all the fifty two years 218 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: I've known him. He's spent his whole sinister life, lying, 219 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: sneaking around so he could carry on his abuse uninterrupted. 220 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: Even his wife was shot and is siding with the victims. 221 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: Is it true, Robin will Lensky that even after he's charged, 222 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: people in the area would not accept the truth and 223 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: even launched a Facebook group to support him. That is correct, Nancy, 224 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: there was a Facebook group supporting him. And let me 225 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: say this about the wife. Okay, she was convinced by 226 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: these other parents and the other victims, and she was 227 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: in court as a prosecution witness testifying against her husband. 228 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: She sided with the victims, not with him. Once she 229 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: got wind of it, and once she was convinced that 230 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: these women were telling the truth about this horrendous abuse 231 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: and being touched in places where the doctor should not 232 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: be touching you. The doctor Johnny Bartow will face seventy 233 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: nine to one hundred and fifty eight years in prison, 234 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: practically guaranteeing he will die behind bars. He fled no 235 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: low to the accounts to the charges of attacks on 236 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: non family members, which means he didn't deny them or 237 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: admit them. Take a listen to WSFA twelve news reporter 238 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: Mark hi Menez Johnny Bartell making a mistake is a 239 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: sexual predator who chose to become a doctor so he 240 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: could have unfederate access to defenseless children. His assaults took 241 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: place from the late nineteen eighties through the nineteen nines 242 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: and the two thousands, accounting until January of two eighteen. 243 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: And I especially want to say how prime I am 244 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: to be standing here today with these brave survivors, back 245 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: here in this Cameria Accounting Board house to discuss the 246 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: sentencing of course of doctor Johnny Barton, a sexually violent 247 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: predator who has now been held accounted for his abuse 248 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: of thirty one child victims. Doctor Barton used his position 249 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: of authority as a pediatrician, the family doctor of romine 250 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: to treat and held the children fell sick desire. Twenty 251 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: years ago. This predator should have been stopped. Victims came forward, 252 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: but no one would listen, no one would believe. I 253 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: am relieved that he is behind bars and unable to 254 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: harm any more children. We've seen that here in the 255 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Catholic church. You see it in Hollywood, you see it 256 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: in politics, and we saw it here in this community 257 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: with a pediatrician for too long. At age thirteen, I 258 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: was sexually abused by doctor Bartow. At age sixteen, I 259 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: witnessed the entire community surround him with support and rally 260 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: for him when he was first publicly accused. He of course, 261 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: will remain behind bars for the rest of his life, 262 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: exactly where he should be. Neighbors who know Jerry Westrom 263 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: were shocked to see this mug shot a man they 264 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: call a nice guy and family man arrested in a 265 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: twenty five year old cold case. The person or suspect 266 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: looking for it could possibly have been injured bad enough 267 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: to seek medical attention. Westroom is accused of killing Jane 268 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: Ann Childs in this Minneapolis apartment. He would have been 269 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: twenty seven. She was thirty five years old. Child's body 270 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: was found in the bedroom of her apartment on June thirteenth, 271 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. Minneapolis police say in twenty fifteen, the 272 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: Cold Case Task Force, along with the FBI and BCA, 273 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: reviewed the case. Three years later, after consulting with an 274 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: online genealogy website, they say Westerroom's DNA match DNA evidence 275 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: left at the crime scene. There is no known relationship 276 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: between the individuals, and that's what makes these sort of 277 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: cases so hard to solve. Wow, in the last days, 278 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: we learn a well respected quote hockey dad, a local businessman, 279 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: charged with murdering a woman all the way back in 280 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three. You know what, justice doesn't sleep right. 281 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: After many many hiccups, cops match his the hockey dad 282 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: DNA from nothing less than a discarded hot dog napkin 283 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: at an ice skating rink. Now what a story. This 284 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 1: woman Jane and Child's found brutally murdered with dozens estab 285 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: wounds in Minnesota in nineteen ninety three. And now a 286 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: fifty two year old married father of two busted. A 287 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: hockey dad kills a woman in the nineties and he's 288 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: just getting buzzed. How you explained that to your your 289 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: boy out there playing hockey on the ice? How does 290 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: that work? Well? How reliable is DNA? Joining me right 291 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: now to Cold to Board CHERRYL. McCollum, Joseph Scott Morgan 292 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: and doctor Bethany Marshall and Robin Wilensky. Tell me about 293 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: this woman, Jane and Child's murder and where and how 294 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: her body was found? Well, Nancy, she was at her 295 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: apartment and he clearly was over there and people were 296 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: looking for her the next day when she didn't show off. 297 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: Was he married at the time? He was not married, 298 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: and she was not married. Okay, as she's dead in 299 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: the shower, I believe they found her with her socks on, 300 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: with water running over her, bloodied, the corpse over her body, Dad, Okay, 301 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute, with her socks on. Okay, 302 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: right right there, to Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold 303 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. The reason I asked is this now, 304 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: he's a well respected businessman in hockey, Dad, fifty two 305 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: years old. The reason I wanted to know was he 306 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: married at the time of her murder? Was? Why would 307 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: he want to get rid of the evidence I a her, 308 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: why would he want to kill her? But now my 309 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: interest is piqued by the fact that she had on socks. Okay, sure, 310 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: The last time I heard about a crime a player 311 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 1: in a crime scene scenario wearing socks was Elliot Spitzer, 312 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: you remember him, the governor of New York, and would 313 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: go to all the hookers and then or I guess 314 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: they were hookers, go to all the women, let me say, 315 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: and they would recount that he always wore his socks. 316 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: Now does that have anything to do with this? No, 317 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: but the socks aspect really sticks in my mind. Cheryl 318 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: McCollum in the shower with socks, and she is murdered, bloody, 319 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: stabbed brutally. He put her in the showers to get 320 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: rid of other evidence. So he's probably thinking, if I 321 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: leave her in the shower with the water running, the 322 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: batable way and anything else I might have left on 323 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: her body, like seminal fluid tivacare, that'll go away as well. 324 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: Back to Robin Willinski Crime Online dot Com investigative report, 325 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: Robin Willinsky. So she's stabbed brutally in the shower, she's 326 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: wearing a pair of socks. Now me going into a 327 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: crime scene. That's something that would really get my interest 328 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: because that tells me she wasn't just in the shower 329 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: when somebody snuck up on her. That says to me 330 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: she was murdered somewhere else then put in the shower. Possibly. 331 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: But and the significance of that to Joseph Scott Morgan, 332 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: forensics expert, is you need to determine whether you're a 333 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: crime scene, is a primary secondary, a tertiary crime scene? 334 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: Is that was she murdered in the shower? Was she 335 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: murdered somewhere else? Because there could be evidence there was 336 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: this a tertiary spot where she had been transported in 337 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: a car, secondary, dumped here, tertiary. All this is important 338 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: because if there are previous crime scenes, you need the 339 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: evidence from their hair, fiber, touch, DNA, anything you can get. 340 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: Remember in the Teresa Hallback case making a murder the 341 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 1: darling of the cable world, Stephen Avery, remember his DNA 342 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: was found on the ignition of Teresa Hallback's car. If 343 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: they hadn't had that, it could have completely jinks the case. Right, 344 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: So every crime scene is significant, Yes it is. Nancy, 345 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: just like the godfather of forensic science said all over 346 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: one hundred years ago. Edmond Lecard, Every contact leaves a trace. 347 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: That means that all along this continuum. I love it 348 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: when you throw out something. I dot know what did 349 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: you just say? Who? Edmond Lecard, he's the godfather of 350 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: all things forensics. He's famous for his contribution to forensic science, 351 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: and it even applies today, even in computer science. His 352 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: statement is, every contact leaves a trace, and that means 353 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: that everywhere we touch, everywhere we go, we leave something 354 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: of ourselves behind. And in this particular case, that's important. 355 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: Just like you were talking about where the socks Nancy, 356 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: if this, if she had not had socks on, uh, 357 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, it wouldn't have piqued my interest as much. 358 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: But the fact that she had these on in the 359 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: shower give me a break. And the only time I've 360 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: ever done that is when I was drunk. You know, 361 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: you show up, you get in the shower, you don't 362 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: take your socks off. Hold on, right there, I can't 363 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: relate to that. I don't drink in Cheryl McComb. If 364 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: you tell him any different, I'll know where it came from. Okay, 365 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: go ahead, please, yeah, you want you want to have 366 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: this connectivity, so for me as an investigator, when I'm 367 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: looking at the scene, I'm going to think, why in 368 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: the world would she have her socks on? That to 369 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: me tells me that this may may have started somewhere 370 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: else in that particular room, and he wanted, just like 371 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: Cheryl had mentioned, to keep the steady stream of water up, 372 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: hoping that it's going to wash away any kind of 373 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: contacted evidence that they may share. See you and I 374 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: and Cheryl are looking at it for evidence. That's why 375 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: the socks are driving are really John me crazy? Now 376 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall, who I don't care what it is. 377 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: She thinks there's some slant of setomasochism in it. I 378 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: don't care what the scenario is. She will find a way. Now. 379 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: I'm sure this par of socks means something completely different 380 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: to her. It's like looking at an abstract painting. Everybody 381 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: sees something different. So Bethany, go ahead, I'm sitting down. 382 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: Hit me. Well, I'm glad you asked the question, because 383 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: when you were talking about touch evidence and washing off 384 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: the DNA or whatever it was, I thought that is 385 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: way too sophisticated. I think that he wanted to approach 386 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: her sexually. She either rebuffed him, or she criticized him, 387 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: or some small altercation took place that turned into a 388 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: rage attack. If, as I suspect, he had never killed before, 389 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: he did not know what to do with all the blood. 390 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: He shoved her into the shower and kept attacking her there. 391 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: You know, I get it. Some serial killers will put 392 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: somebody in the shower to wipe off the wash off 393 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: the evidence. That's not your ordinary twenty seven year old 394 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: rage a Hallock, which is who I think this perp was. 395 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: You know what, Jackie just gave me some information. Jackie 396 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: Howard here in the studio with me, Alan Duke joining 397 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: me from La Robin Wilenski, please tell me this is 398 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: not true. This woman was stabbed thirty eight times. And 399 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: the guy, this so called upstanding businessman, father, hockey dad, husband, 400 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: he actually posted bond and in the courtroom where the 401 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: wife and children, which I understand, and twenty other supporters 402 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: what because it happened a long time ago, we forgot. 403 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: It's just been a big Jurassic erase. Well he's all bond, Natty. 404 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: He's been living two totally separate lives, this guy. And 405 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: I want to make the point that I believe that 406 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: the murder actually took place in the bed, because you 407 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: have a comforter in that apartment that's loaded with his DNA. 408 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: You have a towel, a washcloth, a footprint. So this 409 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: is something that took place a long time ago, and 410 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: clearly he's blocked it out of his mind. Now he's married, 411 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: he's a hockey dad, he's got the two kids in 412 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: a white ticket fence. But at the end of the day, 413 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: he's really a murderer, and all his DNA is going 414 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: back to the bed, to the actual comforter in this 415 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: woman's home. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, do you know what. 416 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Let me throw this to nicolode Board 417 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, car defense attorney. Listen to this. We were 418 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: reviewing court documents that we obtained and this woman, Genie 419 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: and childs. Her naked body was found in her apartment. 420 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: She was stabbed thirty eight times all over her body. 421 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: Blood covered the walls of her bedroom. As Robin Lensky 422 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: accurately pointed out, we think that's where the incident first started, 423 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: all over the walls of her living room and bathroom. Now, 424 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: this is according to the search warrant we obtained the 425 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: bathroom was flooding because the shower had been left on 426 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: finger palm and footprints were discovered at the scene, and 427 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: then it sat there. The case was reopened years later 428 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: by a Minneapolis homicide detective and a fed FBI special 429 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: agent only because they knew there had been advances in DNA. 430 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: Samples were sent to the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and 431 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: a private DNA company, which is very significant here. The 432 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: samples were run through an online genealogy website which turns 433 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: up this guy, the hockey dad, Jerry Westrom. So what 434 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: am I supposed to believe Nicole? That he was in 435 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: the home, everything's covered with his DNA, than he leaves 436 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: and somebody else comes in and stabs her. You know, 437 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: it's certainly going to be interesting to hear what sort 438 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: of defense they put up, But I would I would 439 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: bet that that's exactly where they're headed. You know, we 440 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: have all kinds of information that makes it very clear 441 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: that this was a very violent and ugly murder. But 442 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: what we don't know is whether or not there was 443 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: any other DNA or any other potential suspect information in 444 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: that location. And I would guess that that's what this 445 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: defense will do. Well, what we need, Sheryl McCollum, is 446 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: the right kind of DNA? Yes, his DNA's found it 447 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: the scene, But is it semon? Is it blood? Is 448 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: it touch dna? Is it sweat? I mean, I don't 449 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: know what the type of DNA is. Now if you do, 450 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: because if his DNA is on the murder weapon, well 451 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: it's you know, closed case. But if his DNA is, 452 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: for instance, they have sex the day before, then you 453 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: know the state's got a problem. Hit me, Well, he 454 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: left his seamen on a towel at the crime scene. 455 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: That's pretty good all day? Was the towel bloody by chance? Well, 456 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't know about blood, and I know about seamen. 457 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. I had you as a prosecutor, 458 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: so I'm used to putting together a whole picture of somebody, 459 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: not just one aspect, not just the DNA. But Nancy, 460 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: this man has a record and he was even charging 461 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: two thousands fifteen was something that I think you would 462 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: find really interesting. Hit me, what elicitin a prostitute? What 463 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: eliciting a prostitute? Wait? Wait wait wait wait wait wait? 464 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: When did he solicit a hooker twenty fifteen. And aren't 465 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: there claims that the victim, the murder victim Gene and Childs, 466 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: was a hooker. Correct, So now you have hual behavior 467 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: going half a decade. Well, here's another problem for West 468 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: from the hockey Dad. In an interview, he denied ever 469 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: being in the apartment, that he did not know the victim, 470 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: and he did not have any sex contact with any 471 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: women in Minneapolis in nineteen ninety three, when confronted with 472 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: his DNA, he told investigators he had no idea why 473 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: his DNA would be present at that scene. Now here's 474 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: the beauty part. Here's the beauty part, Nicole de Board 475 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: because of him, say that the defense is locked in 476 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: to that statement. See if he had said something like, Okay, 477 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: I admit I dated her, we had sex that night, 478 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: and I left, he might have had a chance. But 479 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: then coming in and lie, hey, I was with nobody 480 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: in Minneapolis that entire year. See, we's caught lying. Then 481 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: you have the twenty and fifteen solicitation of a hooker. 482 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: And now pieces of the puzzle are falling together. If 483 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: he had not lied at the get go, mmmm, he 484 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 1: might have been able to get out of this Nicole. 485 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree that it's a big problem for 486 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: the defense that there's a definite lie. I mean, we 487 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: have DNA, it appears that he was clearly there. You know. 488 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: What the defense will likely argue, though, is that it's 489 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: one thing to lie about, you know, potentially being with 490 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: a woman that you don't want people to know that 491 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: you were with, and it's a totally different thing to 492 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: lie and about a murder. And I would guess that 493 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: the defensible claim that what he's lying about is that 494 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: he was with this woman because he didn't want people 495 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: to know, But that doesn't foreclose the idea that somebody 496 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: else could have been the person who actually killed her. 497 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: To Joska Morgan, renowned forensics expert, how reliable is DNA, 498 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: even DNA that is promising thirty years ago, I think 499 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: that it's it's highly reliable, Nancy, and the numbers are 500 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: almost undefeatable. When you talk about matching. It's not like 501 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: you know, in the old days where where we had 502 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: to use only blood typing, you know, with ABO groups 503 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing, and you're talking about 504 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: you know, uh, one in a thousand possibilities. This is 505 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: you're in some of these cases, Nancy, I've actually seen 506 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 1: studies where it goes up into one in the quintillion 507 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: arena in you know, in most cases it's like one 508 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: in a certain number million or bill chances that it 509 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: could be anybody else. So I think that this is 510 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: I think that that it is. It's stone cold, a 511 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: solid science. Here's another thing that's that's very exciting about 512 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: this and scary too to a certain degree. You know, 513 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: for years, the FBI has worked off of a database 514 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: that's called the Forensic Database, and that's DNA that is 515 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 1: collected from unknown so okay, from all of these sexual 516 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: sexual assault cases, homicides from all over the country where 517 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: we have unknown DNA that's collected at scenes, but we 518 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: couldn't match it back to anybody. Now because of cases 519 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: like this that you're seeing coming to the forefront, my 520 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: suspicion is is that there are coal case squads working 521 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 1: all over the country now that are going to get 522 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: into this new technology using genealogy and these other databases 523 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: to come in and try to begin to clear this case. 524 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: I think that this is we're only seeing the tip 525 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: of the iceberg here as far as clear in cases goes. 526 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: Robin will ask you a question, do you do we know? 527 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: I know that DNA was found on several items at 528 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: the crime scene, and then the genealogy website led cops 529 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: to Westren. Two questions for you right now. Number One, 530 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: what items at the crime scene had his DNA on them? Specifically? 531 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: Was it a bedsheet where maybe they just had sex, 532 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: or was it a murder weapon or something in that 533 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: bathroom where her body was found? And two, could you 534 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,280 Speaker 1: tell us how they staked him out and they got 535 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: his known DNA? Because see, we've got the DNA from 536 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: her body and the crime scene, we think it's him 537 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: through the genealogy website, We've got to get his specific DNA. 538 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: How do they do it? Take that one first, Okay, 539 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: the items I know for sure Nancy were his DNA. 540 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: Is this big comforter that was on the bed, the 541 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: towel that has the seamen and there's a footprint. Those 542 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: are the three that I know for sure. And then 543 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: they were following him the hockey dad and it was 544 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: his daughter's hockey game, and he's showing down on a 545 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: hot dog and you know how the hot dog comes 546 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: in that little paper thing with the napkins, and he 547 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: discards it and sang, they've got him. Man, that is 548 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: some good police work. Can take a listen to our 549 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: friends at Hnneman County. This is Attorney Mike Freeman. Mister 550 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: Westrom's in custody. There's investigation is still going on. We're 551 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: quite confident that he is a person, or we would 552 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: not have charged it. And the DNA shows that only 553 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: he and the victim are found in the blood samples 554 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,439 Speaker 1: and that ninety nine point nine nine percent of other 555 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: individuals have been excluded. Mister Westrom's blood is found on 556 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: the apartment, including the comforter, a towel, a footprint, and 557 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: a number of other things. There's additional why chromosome testing 558 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: being done now, but we felt we had more than 559 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: enough to charge and we have done so.