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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you, welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb

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Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. And let's give this opening another shot,

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Speaker 1: because I just tried to really corny opening line and

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Speaker 1: Robert's just a look of quiet contempt across the table.

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Speaker 1: I was I was laughing on the inside, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you were. I wasn't even laughing at my

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Speaker 1: own joke there, um, And maybe this will be better. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna start off today by doing a Charles

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Speaker 1: Darwin deep cut. So Darwin of course published his great

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Speaker 1: work on the Origin of Species in eighteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: and of course that was the book that explained his

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Speaker 1: theory of the origin of species, the revolution by natural selection.

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Speaker 1: Then later you got another one, that's The Descent of

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Speaker 1: Man eighteen seventy one, which applied his theory to human evolution.

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Speaker 1: And then a year after that, in eighteen seventy two,

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Speaker 1: he published The Oppression of Emotions in Man and Animals,

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Speaker 1: which is about the biological features of emotions like happiness, sadness, surprise, fear.

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Speaker 1: For example, The relationship between what we feel and the

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Speaker 1: physical expressions of those feelings in the body. Because I

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Speaker 1: think this is one of those little mysteries that's so

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Speaker 1: close and so invisible, we forget to ask why, But

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Speaker 1: why is it that emotions which are influenced by the

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Speaker 1: content of our thoughts, like our beliefs and our knowledge

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Speaker 1: what we're aware of? They why do they cause these powerful, automatic,

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Speaker 1: even unconscious reactions from the muscles and glands throughout the body.

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Speaker 1: Why does a feeling of moral disgust cause us to

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Speaker 1: involuntarily turn our faces away and crinkle our noses up?

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Speaker 1: Or why does a feeling of embarrassment or passion sometimes

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Speaker 1: cause blood to rush to the cheeks and cause us

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Speaker 1: to cover parts of our faces with our hands ends,

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Speaker 1: Or why does an emotionally manipulative TV commercial about a

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Speaker 1: sad dog trigger these unconscious movements in the eyebrows and

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Speaker 1: the corners of the mouth, or even engage the tear

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Speaker 1: ducks if you're a real sap, yes, the sad dog.

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Speaker 1: The dog should be smiling and be happy. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: there's always like those are the things that are funny,

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Speaker 1: where like a really dramatically moving, you know, whole movie

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Speaker 1: or book might not make me cry, but like the

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Speaker 1: the sentimental commercial with like the old dog Buddy and

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Speaker 1: the you know, buying the puri in a one for

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Speaker 1: him or whatever that really like gets me going finally

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Speaker 1: sharpened and by um uh, you know, a multimillion dollar

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Speaker 1: marketing campaigns to cut right to the heart. Now their

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Speaker 1: emotional assassins, they slip in in the night, their ninja.

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Speaker 1: So I think these relationships between thoughts and feelings and

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Speaker 1: autonomically regulated involuntary activity of the skeletal muscles in the

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Speaker 1: face and elsewhere in the body is truly a fascinating

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Speaker 1: evolutionary mystery. Why do our bodies execute these movements when

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Speaker 1: we feel these things? What biological purpose does it serve?

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Speaker 1: And why does so many of these relationships between feelings

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Speaker 1: and movements of the skeletal muscle, not all, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of them. Why do they seem to transcend cultural, national,

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Speaker 1: and linguistic barriers. So I think this whole area is

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Speaker 1: a is a totally interesting subject ripe for investigation. But

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Speaker 1: today we wanted to focus on one specific question that

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Speaker 1: arises from Darwin's work here, and to introduce this question,

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Speaker 1: I want to read a passage with a few abridgements

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Speaker 1: from the very end of the book, where Darwin writes

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Speaker 1: about some of the implications of his observations about emotions

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Speaker 1: in humans and animals. Quote. The movements of expression in

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Speaker 1: the face and body, whatever their origin may have been,

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Speaker 1: are in themselves of much importance for our welfare. They

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Speaker 1: serve as the first means of munication between the mother

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Speaker 1: and her infant. She smiles approval and thus encourages her

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Speaker 1: child on the right path, or frown's disapproval. We readily

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Speaker 1: perceive it's right away, But come on, a kid was

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Speaker 1: just born, just already just complete disapproval. Maybe that's more important. Later,

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Speaker 1: we readily perceive sympathy in others by their expression. Our

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Speaker 1: sufferings are thus mitigated and our pleasures increased, and mutual

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Speaker 1: good feeling is thus strengthened. The movements of expression give

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Speaker 1: vividness and energy to our spoken word. They reveal the

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Speaker 1: thoughts and intentions of others more truly than do words,

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Speaker 1: which may be falsified. And then a little bit later,

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Speaker 1: the free expression by outward signs of an emotion intensifies it.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, the repression, as far as this

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Speaker 1: is possible, of all outward signs softens our emotions. He

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Speaker 1: who gives way to violent gestures will increase his rage.

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Speaker 1: He who does not control the signs of fear will

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Speaker 1: experience fear and a greater degree. And he who remains

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Speaker 1: passive when overwhelmed with grief loses his best chance of

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Speaker 1: recovering elasticity of mind. These results followed partly from the

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Speaker 1: intimate relation which exists between almost all the emotions and

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Speaker 1: their outward manifestations, and partly from the direct influence of

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Speaker 1: exertion on the heart and consequently on the brain. Even

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Speaker 1: the simulation of an emotion tends to arouse it in

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Speaker 1: our minds. Shakespeare, who from his wonderful knowledge of the

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Speaker 1: human mind ought to be an excellent judge, says, is

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Speaker 1: it not monstrous that this player here? And this is

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Speaker 1: a line from Hamlet's soliloquy, where he's watching the play,

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Speaker 1: and he's watching the actors, and he concludes in the

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Speaker 1: end that the plays the thing wherein I'll catch the

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Speaker 1: conscience of the king. But earlier in the soliloquy he's

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Speaker 1: uh watching the actors act, and and Hamlet thinks, is

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Speaker 1: it not monstrous that this player here? But in a

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Speaker 1: fiction in a dream of passion could force his soul

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Speaker 1: so to his own conceit that from her working all

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Speaker 1: his visage wand tears in his eyes, distraction in his aspect,

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Speaker 1: a broken voice, and his whole functions suiting with forms

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Speaker 1: to his conceit, and all for nothing. You know, this

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Speaker 1: is interesting getting into acting, because I feel like, maybe

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Speaker 1: this is just me, but I feel like a lot

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Speaker 1: of us when we watch a well acted scene, especially

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Speaker 1: in a film as opposed to a play, where you

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Speaker 1: can actually get so much closer uh to the facial

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Speaker 1: features of the actor, if if the actor is is

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Speaker 1: truly talented, it's something to behold watching them channel emotions,

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Speaker 1: sometimes completely nonverbally, and I think it probably stands out

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Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. For for starters, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of bad or just average performances in film

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Speaker 1: where you don't see authentic emotion uh channeled, even in

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Speaker 1: like scenes of extreme emotion, which you're going to encounter

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Speaker 1: more often in a film perhaps than in everyday life.

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Speaker 1: But even in everyday life, when we are when we're

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Speaker 1: encountering someone displaying extreme emotion, we are likely a part

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Speaker 1: of that scenario. You know, unless we're just as we

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Speaker 1: see something on the street. But even then, I mean,

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Speaker 1: are we Unless you're a complete bystander and you're just

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Speaker 1: completely locked out of it, you're probably going to feel something.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good point. Whereas if you watch, if

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Speaker 1: you're watching just a really well acted scene in a film,

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Speaker 1: like you, you have that permission of distance right where

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Speaker 1: you can stand back and say, look at what their

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Speaker 1: their faces doing, Like I'm watching blood vessels move, I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing something in their eyes, like I'm I'm seeing authentic

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Speaker 1: emotion pour out of their face. Yeah, It's like watching

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Speaker 1: a film can, especially with great acting, can be like

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Speaker 1: a tasting course for human emotions, whereas normally, like you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd be involved in the cooking or something where you

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Speaker 1: know and so uh and of course it would just

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Speaker 1: be rude to try to observe other people's emotions. Uh

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Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, that's a really good point about acting.

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Speaker 1: And it is uh interesting, I mean we often wonder

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Speaker 1: this right, like, um, when an actor convincingly portrays an

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Speaker 1: emotion or character, does the actor actually feel that emotion?

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Speaker 1: What are the important biological or psychological differences in the

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Speaker 1: moment between an actor acting out in emotion with their

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Speaker 1: face and their body and a person actually feeling that emotion. Like, what,

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Speaker 1: what are the differences you could name their Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously they're different approaches to acting, different schools of acting.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know, certainly a lot of the time

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Speaker 1: when you're seeing somebody emote on the screen, they are

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Speaker 1: they are drawing on real emotions, real experiences that are

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Speaker 1: in some way comparable to what their character is supposed

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Speaker 1: to feel. Yeah, And I think that's why a lot

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Speaker 1: of times actors actually need time to say, get into

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Speaker 1: and out of character. You know, they can't turn it

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Speaker 1: off and on in an instant. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: maybe some can, but a lot can't. They need they

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Speaker 1: need a few moments to sort of gather themselves to

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Speaker 1: get in and then gather themselves once they get out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, So anyway, are one is suggesting here that

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Speaker 1: the bodily manifestations of emotion, including the facial expressions, are

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Speaker 1: not just a consequence of the emotions we feel, though

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Speaker 1: they are that, of course, uh. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have these outward uh signs of the emotions we feel,

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Speaker 1: of course, is useful for communicating our emotional states to others,

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Speaker 1: and this could be one very important biological role that

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Speaker 1: these expressions play. But he says they also are involved

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Speaker 1: in the regulation and maintenance of the emotions themselves. So

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Speaker 1: a smile isn't just a consequence of feeling joy. The

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Speaker 1: smile contributes to and sustains and modulates the feeling of joy.

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Speaker 1: The tightened lip corner isn't just a result of our

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Speaker 1: feeling of contempt, but it in some way makes us

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Speaker 1: feel contempt. So it's almost like there are two dogs

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Speaker 1: chained to each other, and if one moves the other

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Speaker 1: one cannot help but be moved as well. Right, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean according to to Darwin's view here. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: his idea that the bodily expressions don't just follow from

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Speaker 1: emotional states. They they in part are the emotional states.

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Speaker 1: They contribute to and control the emotional states. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we'll get into this some more.

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Speaker 1: But I think that this is something that a lot

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Speaker 1: of us can can point to times in our life

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Speaker 1: where this either definitely feels true or other times where

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Speaker 1: it definitely doesn't feel true. Like um, for instance, I

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Speaker 1: go to I go to yoga a lot I really

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Speaker 1: enjoy and I think benefit physically and mentally from a

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Speaker 1: yoga practice. And there are times where you're you're in

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Speaker 1: a pose and a teacher may tell everybody, don't you know,

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Speaker 1: don't forget to smile, smile, and then that'll change your

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Speaker 1: sort of emotional uh participation with the pose, And in

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Speaker 1: those situations it it does feel sometimes like it helps.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, I've had teachers who say that

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Speaker 1: they they've stopped saying that because sometimes people in the class,

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Speaker 1: you know, have bad experience. It's with being told to smile.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's become very much a betting, harassed on

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Speaker 1: the streets, a cliche of misogynistic behavior, telling someone they

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Speaker 1: should smile more telling someone they should smile, And it

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Speaker 1: can be that alone. Yeah, I can feel no matter

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know what what your your

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Speaker 1: your gender happens to be, it's like being told to smile,

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Speaker 1: as if that is just going to fix your problems,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna totally change your your your mood. It can

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Speaker 1: feel insulting, right like, surely my emotional state depends on

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Speaker 1: more than just what my face is doing. And ultimately

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Speaker 1: I think we all can agree it does. Being told

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Speaker 1: to smile and then smiling does not fix whatever caused

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Speaker 1: you to frown to begin with. And then that's not

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Speaker 1: getting into the case, you know, the situation that we

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Speaker 1: do need to frown, We do need to have like

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Speaker 1: the full spectrum of emotions. Right, that's certainly right, even

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Speaker 1: if Darwin is correct, Like even if Darwin is right

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Speaker 1: that the smile itself can give you some kind of

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Speaker 1: feedback that in turn actually increases the positivity of your

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Speaker 1: emotional state the smile and make you happier. I mean

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Speaker 1: that that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for other, like

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Speaker 1: exogenous forces to try to coerce smiling on you, to

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Speaker 1: tell you you should be smiling, which I think can

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Speaker 1: probably lead to all kinds of other emotions that could

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Speaker 1: negate whatever positivity comes from the muscle movements that might

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Speaker 1: be making you happier. So, as we're talking, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking just about smiles, but smiles do come

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Speaker 1: up a lot in in the discussion here, so I

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Speaker 1: thought it would be helpful to take a moment just

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Speaker 1: talk about what a smile is. Um. You know, our

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Speaker 1: smile is a bit different from you know, the smile

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Speaker 1: that we see expressed by our great ape brethren. Where

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Speaker 1: it is essentially a fear grin. Uh. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's often flashed when an individual is trapped or threatened,

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Speaker 1: it to show of submission to more dominant members of

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Speaker 1: the group. And you know it's it is then an

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Speaker 1: admission of fear and a signal, uh though a signal

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Speaker 1: that doesn't just stand on its own. It's like part

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Speaker 1: of a larger bodily signal that is expressed, uh, just

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Speaker 1: if to say, you know, I am not hostile, I

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Speaker 1: am not a threat. And I was reading a little

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Speaker 1: bit about this. Neuroscientist um Michael Graziano, who have discussed

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Speaker 1: on the show before. He has a wonderful Eon magazine

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Speaker 1: article that discusses this topic and he points out a

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Speaker 1: number of things we've talked about here already. Also points out,

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Speaker 1: you know that that even you know, with humans, people

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Speaker 1: sometimes in subservient positions will will smile a lot. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's sort of the uh, you know, the the boot

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Speaker 1: licking smile that we still kind of identify the idea

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Speaker 1: of the obsequious smile. Yeah, and uh, and so that

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Speaker 1: in that it would seem that there are certain aspects

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Speaker 1: of the great ape smile, but haven't quite left us. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know. He points as well to shakespeare line from

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Speaker 1: troy Less and Cressida quote they send their smiles before

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Speaker 1: them to Achilles, which which I think is is rather nice.

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Speaker 1: So the human smile seems to have definitely emerged out

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Speaker 1: of the same sort of thing. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are we are primates after all. And of course

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Speaker 1: even though they're you know, a smile as a smile

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Speaker 1: as a mile, there are some cultural differences in the

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Speaker 1: way smiles are perceived from one culture to another. Um.

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Speaker 1: We mentioned, uh, Darwin mentioned babies earlier, and and certainly

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Speaker 1: human newborns flash reflex smiles, but then social smiles come

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Speaker 1: a little later, six to twelve weeks generally. Um. Yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: In this an article, Graziano points out that, you know,

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Speaker 1: most commentators agree that primate smiles are very old, and

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Speaker 1: some think that it might have evolved out of an

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Speaker 1: old or threatening display. But he thinks that if we

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Speaker 1: focus too much on the teeth, we miss something else. Again,

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Speaker 1: that full body display that is evident, right, It involves

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Speaker 1: multiple regions of muscles in the face. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: stuff around the cheeks and the sides of the mouth,

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Speaker 1: but also the eyes right, yeah, yeah, and even yeah,

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Speaker 1: just like what you know, the full body is doing

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Speaker 1: in the full uh you know, communication array, that is

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Speaker 1: the face in the head. So what do he proposes

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Speaker 1: ultimately is that we're talking We're talking about here is

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Speaker 1: a smile. That's kind of a halfway point between not

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Speaker 1: re acting to a display of dominance and fully reacting

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Speaker 1: to it. Um, which which is which is interesting? It's

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Speaker 1: almost like, uh, you know, these these creatures learning to

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Speaker 1: lie to each other, to deceive each other, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: here's a quote from where he's talking about like monkey

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Speaker 1: A and monkey be, you know, hypothetically interacting. Quote. Monkey

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Speaker 1: BE can learn a lot by watching the reaction of

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Speaker 1: Monkey A. If Monkey A makes a full blown protective response,

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Speaker 1: cringe and all, it's a pretty good sign that Monkey

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Speaker 1: A is frightened. He's uneasy, his personal space is revved

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Speaker 1: up and expanded. He must view monkey B as a

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Speaker 1: threat a social superior. On the other hand, if Monkey

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Speaker 1: A reveals only a subtle response, perhaps squinting and slightly

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Speaker 1: pulling back his head, it's a good sign that Monkey

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Speaker 1: A is not so frightened. He does not consider monkey

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Speaker 1: B to be a social superior or a threat, So

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Speaker 1: the social signal evolves from here and he drives home

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Speaker 1: the quote. The primary evolutionary pressure is on the receiver

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Speaker 1: of the signal, not the cinder. The story is about

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Speaker 1: how we came to react to smiles. Yeah, that's interesting,

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Speaker 1: but it also raises all these other questions about So

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Speaker 1: if we consider the evolution of the smile as having

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Speaker 1: something to do with social signaling, and you know, relates

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Speaker 1: to the social relationships between animals that live in groups

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Speaker 1: and interact with each other, why is it that in

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Speaker 1: in our lives at least, I would say the smile

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Speaker 1: is very divorced from that original context where you smile

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Speaker 1: by yourself all the time, you be completely alone and

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Speaker 1: something makes you happy and you find yourself beaming. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is true. Um. Now, we've discussed before though, how

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Speaker 1: we might not laugh, though we might smile but not laugh,

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Speaker 1: or at least that's a good point. The laughter might

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Speaker 1: be in the smile might be more pronounced if there's

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Speaker 1: someone else around, particularly you know, someone we know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about this before we started recording. Actually,

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Speaker 1: how you know we we watched the Mystery Science Theater

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Speaker 1: three thousand episode and we laugh if somebody else is

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Speaker 1: in the room. It's still funny if nobody else is there,

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Speaker 1: but you just don't laugh out loud. Yeah, I've I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think of a time if I if I

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Speaker 1: ever watched something and just really laughed out loud by myself,

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Speaker 1: and how funny it is, Like, uh yeah, nothing comes

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Speaker 1: to mind, And in fact, I think I would feel

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Speaker 1: weird if I did. I would feel like Sam Neil's

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Speaker 1: character at the end of In the Mouth of Madness

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Speaker 1: where he's in the movie theater. Sometimes Barbarian movies do

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Speaker 1: it for me. I think I was laughing pretty loud

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Speaker 1: by myself when I was watching Your Hunter from the Future.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you were just beside yourself with laughter. And therefore

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Speaker 1: you know you have you know yourself to to communicate

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Speaker 1: to um. So so basically, Graziana points out, you know

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Speaker 1: that from here it would have been an evolutionary arms race. Um.

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Speaker 1: And and this is a wonderful article, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's titled The First Smile. Um. It's available you know,

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Speaker 1: Eddie and magazine. And uh, he gets into laughter as well.

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Speaker 1: But here's how he sums everything up. Quote. Evolution favors

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Speaker 1: animals that can read and react to those signs, and

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Speaker 1: it favors animals that can manipulate those signs to influence

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Speaker 1: whoever is watching. We have stumbled on the defining ambiguity

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Speaker 1: of human emotional life. We are always quite caught between

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Speaker 1: authenticity and fake ery, always floating in the gray area

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Speaker 1: between involuntary outburst and expedient pretense. Yeah, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it's helpful to think about the complexity of

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Speaker 1: the smile, the mix of authenticity and fakeery. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've just I think we've discussed fake smiles on the

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Speaker 1: show before about how you know, there's this lack of

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Speaker 1: micro expressive detail and a fake smile that you can

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Speaker 1: pick up on. Um, but that to like truly fake

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Speaker 1: a smile, you do have to summon some of the

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Speaker 1: energy of the smile, you know. Um. Yeah, anyway, it

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Speaker 1: gets it gets very complicated, and especially in the human scenario,

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Speaker 1: to to define exactly what a smile is in the

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Speaker 1: degrees of smiling. Well, here's maybe a good question. Are

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Speaker 1: all smiles on command fake smiles? Or are there are

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Speaker 1: there cases where you smile on command and not be

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Speaker 1: because you know, you suddenly are overwhelmed by a feeling

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Speaker 1: of positivity and joy and happiness. You know, you just

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Speaker 1: smile because you need to. But it's not fake. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a good question. It's it's it kind of

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Speaker 1: goes in with laughter as well, or at least kind

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Speaker 1: of like the mild laughter. I think of like interactions

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Speaker 1: with people, uh, you know, be be it at work

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Speaker 1: or you know, strangers at a store. You know, the

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Speaker 1: various social interactions that feel our lives. And I'll catch

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Speaker 1: myself smiling, I'll catch myself, you know, laughing a little bit,

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Speaker 1: even if there's not a joke, which seems strange, like

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm it makes me kind of feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: the joker or something. Um, the man who laughs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not in a good way, not in the Steve Miller way,

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Speaker 1: but you know in the Batman way. Um and yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you start teasing it apart, and you start asking yourself, well,

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Speaker 1: was this authentic? Was this inauthentic? Or was it or

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Speaker 1: is it like Graziano says, is somewhere in between. Like

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Speaker 1: for for instance, um, I think one person wrote into

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Speaker 1: us once and accused one or both of us a

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Speaker 1: fake laughing at each other's jokes. Do you remember this?

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Speaker 1: I don't remember this. And uh, um, yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a while back, and I think only it was only

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Speaker 1: one person that ever ever wrote in about it, and

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Speaker 1: it just made me stop and think though, because I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: what we do here is is kind of a performance.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're not reading from a script. We're having

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Speaker 1: an authentic conversation, but it's a conversation knowing that someone

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Speaker 1: else is listening to it, and like we we do

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Speaker 1: make each other laugh, but maybe we do lean into

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Speaker 1: it a little bit. I don't know it Like it

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Speaker 1: basically comes down to exactly what Graziana said that it's

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Speaker 1: it's not just fakery and authenticity, but there's this there's

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Speaker 1: this huge area in between, and we may not even

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Speaker 1: be aware of where we are on that spectrum in

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Speaker 1: a given moment. Okay, I think we gotta take a break,

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Speaker 1: but we will be right back with more than all right,

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Speaker 1: We're back. Okay. So we've been discussing facial expressions emotions. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Darwin's writing on the relationship between facial expressions and emotions,

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Speaker 1: or not just facial expressions, I mean all kinds of

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Speaker 1: body expressions and physical manifest stations and emotions. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so this leads up to something that we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about for the rest of today's episode, which has

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Speaker 1: come to be known as the facial feedback hypothesis. Now,

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Speaker 1: I guess to have a starting place, we should talk

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Speaker 1: about what some of the acceptable emotions for discussions are,

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Speaker 1: because obviously there are lots of complex emotions that might

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Speaker 1: be you know, little shadings of other more basic emotions

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Speaker 1: or combinations of feelings commonly acknowledged basic emotions in psychology,

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Speaker 1: as categorized by the American psychologist Paul Ekman. Let's hear him,

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Speaker 1: how about happiness, sadness, surprise, discussed, anger, and fear. There

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Speaker 1: you got your big six. Now, other psychologists have offered

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Speaker 1: slightly different lists, but I think this seems to be

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Speaker 1: like a good starting place. These are like six widely

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Speaker 1: acknowledged basic emotions, setting aside for a second that, you know,

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Speaker 1: different theories of what emotions actually are, which will come

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Speaker 1: back to later in the episode. They're they're also like

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Speaker 1: the constructionist ideas of emotions, which says, it's more like

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Speaker 1: there's some kind of universal slider underneath all these and

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Speaker 1: these are like categories that we apply to where that

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Speaker 1: slider is. But for now, we're gonna work with those

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Speaker 1: kind of six emotions, and so put succinctly, the facial

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Speaker 1: feedback hypothesis is the idea that quote an individual's experience

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Speaker 1: of emotion is influenced by feedback from their facial movements. Now,

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Speaker 1: there are tons of different versions of this hypothesis that

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Speaker 1: have been articulated and tested over the years. We'll we'll

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Speaker 1: get more into those differences later on. We know Darwin

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Speaker 1: proposed something like this in the eighteen seventies, and it's

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Speaker 1: been advocated by other important figures in intellectual history. The

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Speaker 1: Seminal American psychologist William James argued in his eighteen ninety

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Speaker 1: work on on psychology that at least for the more

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Speaker 1: basic or coarser emotions, emotions in a way simply are

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Speaker 1: identical with the sensation of their physical manifestations in the body. Quote.

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Speaker 1: If we fancy some strong emotion and then try to

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Speaker 1: abstract from our consciousness of it all the feelings of

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Speaker 1: its bodily symptoms, we find we have nothing left behind,

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Speaker 1: no mind stuff out of which the emotion can be constituted,

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Speaker 1: and that a cold and neutral state of intellectual perception

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Speaker 1: is all that remains. So that this is a strange idea,

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Speaker 1: but this did hold some sway for a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's the idea that the feeling of an emotion is

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Speaker 1: the feeling of changes happening in the body, including but

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Speaker 1: not limited to the skeletal muscle. And this would center largely,

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Speaker 1: but not entirely, on expressions that happen automatically in the

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Speaker 1: facial muscles, but also all throughout the body. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: this does remind me that you know, when when one

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Speaker 1: is smiling intensely um organically, you know you're not faking

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Speaker 1: it at all, but like something is making you really

429
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: smile and perhaps laugh really hard as well, there is

430
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: a feeling of possession about it where you could imagine

431
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: it's like this the physical um you know, symptoms are

432
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: actually kind of like crunching your brain into this, uh,

433
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: this pattern of thinking, like like you are you are happy? Now?

434
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: You are laughing? Now? Do you ever get the feeling

435
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: like feeling happiness in the face in the way that

436
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: if the emotion has a location, it kind of feels

437
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: like it's somewhere behind the face and kind of or

438
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: like it's a claw, Like it's like a like a

439
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: claw clamped over the face. Like a xenomorphic claw, uh,

440
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, an alien And and then you get to

441
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: the point where your face is hurting a little bit

442
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: Like that is always a weird sensation where you're like,

443
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so happy and overcome by joy and it's

444
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 1: physically hurting me. I wish it would stop. Well. On

445
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: the other hand, I mean other emotions. I think we

446
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: often do you not, least I do associate fear with

447
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: a feeling in the stomach and the gut. Do you

448
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: not associate sadness with kind of feelings in like the

449
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: throat and the temples and behind the face? Also? Yeah, yeah,

450
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: I mean with with with that being, you know, it's

451
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: it's often like there's a like a nasal activation. You know,

452
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: we often don't want to think about that when we

453
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: we think about, you know, weeping tears of joy, but

454
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: it's often not just tears of joy. It's not of

455
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: joy or a snot of sadness. But it's not nearly

456
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: as poetic. But uh, but that's how it works. Uh.

457
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: And in terms of like fear and you know, anxiety,

458
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: I often think of it as more like a like

459
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: a claw. Again, I guess it's claws, Like I can't

460
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: get passive clause. But it's more it is more of

461
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: an internal claw clutching not the face but the heart.

462
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: I had no idea your psychic universe was all clause. Yeah,

463
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: I mean that's I guess that's how I viewed the

464
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: outside world. It's just a series of clause trying to

465
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: um get to the heart of me. So William James also,

466
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: like Darwin, addressed the subject of acting. So to to

467
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: defend this idea, he brings up a hypothetical objection to

468
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: his argument that goes something like this is so okay, So,

469
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: William James, you say that bodily expressions of an of

470
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: an emotion are identical to the feeling of the emotion.

471
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it follow then that an actor faking in emotion

472
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: is exactly the same as somebody really feeling it. And uh.

473
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: And the way James phrases this is that any voluntary,

474
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: cold blooded arousal of the so called manifestations of a

475
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: special emotion ought to give us the emotion itself. And

476
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: James answers this objection by saying, first of all, you

477
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: can't really test this because a lot of the bodily

478
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: manifestations of emotions are in organs that we can't voluntarily

479
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: control things in the you know, in the gut and

480
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: the autonomic nervous system. He gives the example of tears.

481
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: Most people can't cry on command, thus they can't actually

482
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: perform a voluntary, cold blooded arousal of the physical manifestations

483
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: in the body. But and there are some cases where

484
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: we can control those manifestations. And in these cases, James says,

485
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: the problem with the objection is that it just assumes

486
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: it's obviously wrong that cold blooded arousal of the manifestations

487
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: gives us the emotion itself. He does not concede that

488
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: this is an absurdity. Instead, he writes, quote, everyone knows

489
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: how panic is increased by flight, and how giving way

490
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: to the symptoms of grief or anger increases those passions themselves.

491
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: Each fit of sobbing makes the sorrow more acute and

492
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: calls forth another fit stronger still, until at last repose

493
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: only ensues with lassitude and with the apparent exhaustion of

494
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: the machinery enrage. It is notorious how we work ourselves

495
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: up to a climax by repeated outbreaks of expression. Refuse

496
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: to express a passion, and it dies. This is a

497
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: famous quote here, uh count ten before venting your anger,

498
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: and its occasion seems ridiculous. Whistling to keep up courage

499
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: is no mere figure of speech. On the other hand,

500
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: sit all day in a moping posture, sigh and reply

501
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: to everything with a dismal voice, and your melancholy lingers.

502
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: There's no more valuable precept in moral education than this,

503
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: as all who have experience no. If we wish to

504
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: conquer undesirable emotional tendencies in ourselves, we must assiduously and

505
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: in the first instance, cold bloodedly go through the outward

506
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: movements of these contrary dispositions which we prefer to cultivate.

507
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: So this is sort of the origin of fake it

508
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: till you make it right yeah, or um yeah, or

509
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 1: telling people to smile and they'll be happy. I mean,

510
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: it's uh yeah, this this, I mean, he puts it

511
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: so well, and my my response is both yes and no,

512
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: like you know this, this feels absolutely true, but also

513
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: like you know, so many different objections pop up as well.

514
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: I mean, for starters, the idea of like refused to

515
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: express a passion and it dies. I mean that runs

516
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: counter to a lot of at least you know, so

517
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: certainly to the advice that is often given about passions

518
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 1: and how we should not bury them inside of us,

519
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: because it won't die if it is buried inside. It's

520
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: that it will find a way out, and it might

521
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: not find its way out in in a in a

522
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: way or at least at a time. That is uh,

523
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: that that that that is beneficial. Well, I I am

524
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: also of two minds about this, um and the idea

525
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: of yeah, refused to express express a passion and it dies. Um.

526
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: I think I've talked on the podcast before about how

527
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: I'm often skeptical of the benefits of what people call venting,

528
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: though at the same time, I don't think it's good to,

529
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, have strong feelings about something and have nobody

530
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: to talk to them about, you know, and when you

531
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: can't talk about something that is psychologically stressful, it's a

532
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: burden on you. And so like, on one hand, you

533
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: do need to be able to talk about things, but

534
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: there's this thing people call venting, which is like something

535
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: is bothering them and they just like continually express their

536
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: frustration and a kind of repetitive pattern about it. I

537
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: tend to notice throughout my life that this in myself

538
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: and in others. This doesn't actually make you feel better

539
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: that the venting process, I think most of the time

540
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: just makes you matter and matter. You work yourself up

541
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: into a state where the problem assumes a larger posture

542
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: than it did to begin with. And you're talking about,

543
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: like speaking aloud, that's sort of venting, because it seems

544
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: like that sort of a venting has a very has

545
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: a lot in common with the things that go on

546
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: inside the mind and the default mode network as we

547
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: ruminate over something some worry we we we kind of

548
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: rehearse for disasters, for example, or we um we essentially

549
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: fantasize about terrible things occurring and um, you know it's

550
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of the same practice, right, I mean,

551
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: it's uh, you know, it's it's filling your mind with

552
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: um some sort of negati of outcome be be it.

553
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: You know, you're yelling at somebody or um, you know,

554
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: we're bad things happening to you, kind of rehearsals for disaster. Yeah,

555
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: the psychological process of rumination where you where you just

556
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: like rehearse the worst possible scenarios in your mind over

557
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: and over again is terrible. But then the idea here though,

558
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: is there could be like a feedback loop if you're

559
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: actually if if you're expressing it bodily and facially, then

560
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: it's just gonna potentially make things worse. Yeah, um and

561
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: I do think to some extent that's true. So, yeah,

562
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: obviously we're dealing with something that's very complicated, and that's

563
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: not a surprise because it involves emotions. I think emotions

564
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: are I mean, we'll go ahead and say today, emotions

565
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: are one of the most difficult things to study scientifically,

566
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: I think, um and and so studies about them are

567
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: often plagued with problems of inconsistency and how the emotions

568
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: are characterized, how they're measured, How exactly do you quantify

569
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: emotional states. It's one of the most difficult problems in

570
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: all of science. I think, Yeah, how do you even

571
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: agree on the base terminology? And then if you end

572
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: up creating something that seems like a useful explanation, is

573
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: it ultimately just kind of a you know, a system

574
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: of metaphors to try and make sense of this thing.

575
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like the movie, the Pixar

576
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: movie inside Out. Oh, I hadn't seen it. A wonderful

577
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: movie about about emotions, uh, you know, but ultimately like

578
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: there are not you know, a series of individuals inside

579
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: of your head arguing with each other and going on adventures. Uh.

580
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: So you know, you you worry too about like to

581
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: what extent you end up like going too far in

582
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: one of these directions and in really trying to uh

583
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: you know, apply language to the the the un language

584
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: complexity of the mind. But obviously, then again, emotions are

585
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: one of the most important features of our entire lives,

586
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: and so psychology should be taking a crack and understanding them.

587
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: And so I guess that brings us back to the

588
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: back to this question of the facial feedback hypothesis. If

589
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: it's true that movements of the facial muscles or facial

590
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: expressions do contribute to our underlie ing emotional states, they

591
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: don't just follow from them, but they feed back into

592
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: them and in some way control them. Is there evidence

593
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: for that? Is there evidence that that's true? And I

594
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: guess that's what we should discuss next. So one thing

595
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: we absolutely do not lack for is studies on this subject.

596
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: The facial feedback hypothesis is huge, and it's a very

597
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: complicated subject with a massive and conflicting research history. There's

598
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: no way to discuss all these studies, but in a

599
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: minute we will be looking at a recent meta analysis

600
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: paper that sort of gives an overview of these findings. Now,

601
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: one thing is like problems with methodology we were just

602
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: alluding to and how you study things like the relationship

603
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: between facial expressions and emotions. Of course, you can just

604
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: ask people to smile or frown or do things with

605
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: their face and then ask them how they feel. But

606
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: these kinds of experiments would have some obvious limitations, right,

607
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: like if people are aware of being asked to smile,

608
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: uh this knowledge could change how they were poor their feelings,

609
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: and it could bias the results. You could have acquiescence bias,

610
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: where you know, people in an experiment tend to just

611
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 1: sort of try to figure out what the experimenters want

612
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: and give them those types of results, or more generally,

613
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: what are referred to uh as demand characteristics where but

614
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: where things emerge in the research environment that would not

615
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: emerge naturally. So different tests devised over the years have

616
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: tried to get around this a number of ways, trying

617
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: to like contort the facial muscles and see if that

618
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: does something to emotional states without just saying, hey, you know,

619
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: could you please frown for a minute, and then we're

620
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: gonna ask you to do a questionnaire. So, like, one

621
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: type of thing is the pin in the mouth study.

622
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: So here's one where you put a pin either between

623
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: your lips or you put a pin between your teeth.

624
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: When you put a pin between your lips, it just

625
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: happens to form your face into a frown. When you

626
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: put a pin between your teeth, it happens to induce

627
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: the same muscles that you would use in a smile.

628
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: So that's been used in a number of studies. Another

629
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: thing is like asking participants to say a lot of

630
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: certain vowels. For example, awe sounds incidentally produced smile posture

631
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: and oh sounds incidentally produced frown posture. And some research

632
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: has found, for example, that awe sounds people make people

633
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: self report more happy or pleasant feelings. And I've even

634
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: seen this connected to the prevalence of awe sounds and

635
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: religious chance. I thought that's kind of an interesting idea there,

636
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: like halla, hallelujah, all kinds of I mean that awe

637
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: sounds are more prevalent around the world and religious chants

638
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: than ow sounds, and this could be because they induce

639
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: more pleasant mental states. Now where does own fall? Then

640
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: hopefully ow would be between the two? Right maybe? But

641
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: out of this this huge history of of all these

642
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: different studies, uh, just this year we got this big

643
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: meta analysis pulled together tabulating a hundred thirty eight different

644
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: studies on the effect. It was by Nicholas A. Coles,

645
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: Jeff T. Larson, and Heather C. Lynch, published in Psychological

646
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: Bulletin in twenty nineteen. And so, okay, you might think

647
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: that given that many studies, a hundred and thirty eight studies,

648
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: now we should have a really solid body of evidence

649
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: converging on a clear consensus answer. Uh. And in one

650
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: broad sense that's true, and in many more specific senses

651
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: it's not true to quote the authors here. Unfortunately, more

652
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: than a centuries worth of research has not yet clarified

653
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: whether facial feedback effects are reliable. For example, researchers have

654
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: produced a variety of theoretical disagreements about win facial feedback

655
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: effects should emerge, but it remains unclear which, if any

656
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: of these theories are correct. Furthermore, seventeen labs recently found

657
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: that even the most seminal demonstration of facial feedback effects

658
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: is not clearly replicable. Uh so, and this was a

659
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: big problem. So like one of the biggest studies it was.

660
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: It was a pin in the mouth study that found that,

661
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, putting a pin between the t made people

662
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: report more happy emotions than putting it between the lips.

663
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: Uh that that was big. But then just recently a

664
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: bunch of abs tried to replicate it and they couldn't.

665
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: So here here's this big question what all these studies

666
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: add up to. So here's where this new meta analysis

667
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: comes in. Quote amid this uncertainty, we provide a narrative

668
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: review of research on the facial feedback hypothesis and a

669
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: meta analysis of all available experimental evidence. So they're pulling

670
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: all the studies together and trying to see if they

671
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: can crunch the numbers and figure out what is shown overall.

672
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: So I think maybe we should take another break and

673
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: then when we come back we can get into the

674
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: results of this study. Thank alright, we're back. So yeah,

675
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: we're looking at a meta analysis of all of these,

676
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: uh these different studies about facial feedback hypothesis, and uh

677
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: hopefully like some sense will emerge from it, all, right,

678
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: they we'll have some some some some general um you know,

679
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: ideas that we can draw from it. Right, we will

680
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: get some. We there are other things that are left unanswered.

681
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: So one of the things is that we we alluded

682
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: to all these different problems. And how you study something

683
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: like the facial feedback hypothesis, uh like, The authors identify

684
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: four major theoretical disagreements in how people even approach the subject.

685
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: To begin with, I'll try to simplify them as briefly

686
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: as I can. One is modulation versus initiation. Okay, So

687
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: one one view says that emotions are maintained and modulated

688
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: by body expressions. So you're genuinely happy, You're feeling happy,

689
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: and that makes you smile, and then the smile can

690
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: maintain and intensify the happiness, or suppressing the smile can

691
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: put a damper on the happiness. This is the modulation hypothesis. Meanwhile,

692
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: the other view would say that at least some emotions

693
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: can be created out of nothing with facial feedback alone.

694
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: So maybe you're feeling neutral, but you make yourself frowned

695
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: for five minutes and you actually end up feeling sad.

696
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: This is the initiation hypothesis, So the author is no

697
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: something interesting here that maybe we wouldn't have thought about otherwise. Uh.

698
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: They know that this distinction assumes that emotional experiences have

699
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,959
Speaker 1: a beginning and an ending, that they are discreet rather

700
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: than continuous and always in flux. Like if you feel happy,

701
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: can you pinpoint the moment when you started feeling happy?

702
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: And was there no happiness before? Or was it just

703
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: something that got turned up in amplitude? But was there before? Uh?

704
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: This is an interesting question, like our emotions discrete things

705
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: that can begin an end, or they part of a

706
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: continuous media that's always in flux with maybe Uh, And

707
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: of course if they are, there's maybe no difference between

708
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: initiation and modulation. Yeah, it makes me think it's like

709
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: it's like a flow state and non emotional state. I've

710
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: never heard it put like that. ID have to think

711
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: about that because generally when I think about being in

712
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 1: a flow state, I think about it being happiness, because

713
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: like it's you're content, you're not you know, you're totally

714
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: wrapped up in the task at hand, and you're not uh,

715
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about anything else. But then again, is

716
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: it is it really happiness or is it like just

717
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: sort of removal from the uh you know, the wheel

718
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: of emotions to some extent, disengaging from the default mode network,

719
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Uh yeah, and the default mode network

720
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: sometimes just seems like kind of a roulette wheel of

721
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: emotions that it's just spin it and let's just see

722
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: what what the what the universe has for me right now?

723
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: Am I gonna be happy in the next minute? Or sad?

724
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: It's like you or I have and feel like I

725
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: just I have no idea, And for me it's like

726
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: which of your failures would you like to contemplate? Yeah? Default? Okay,

727
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: So next you've got discreet versus dimensional emotional experience. So

728
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: our happiness, anger, sadness all that. Are they discrete categories?

729
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: Do these basic emotions exist as sort of separate programs

730
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: within the brain or can they all be reduced to

731
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: some underlying phenomena presenting at different levels of intensity and valence.

732
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: So the basic idea here is like, imagine you've got

733
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: a couple of sliders in your brain. One is a

734
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: slider that's the valence is this positive or negative? And

735
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: then the other slider is the level of arousal. Are

736
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: you high? High? Arousal or low arousal, and those two sliders,

737
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: positioned at different places, actually give you the things you

738
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: think of as your normal emotions. The names of the

739
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: emotions are just sort of like categories that we apply

740
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: based on contextual clues. That's a possibility. Yeah, I was

741
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: thinking a little about this yesterday because I was working

742
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: on another episode's notes and I was listening to a

743
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: little Jackson Brown was planned um Fountain of Sorrow, and

744
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: I had to stop. It's like, because I was thinking,

745
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: is this is this song making me feel good or bad?

746
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: Is it making me happy or sad? It's like, it's

747
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 1: but it's neither, you know, it's it's this mix of both.

748
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: Like it's a kind of a sad, bittersweet song that's

749
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: beautifully recorded and I have, you know, nostalgia for it,

750
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: but it's also you know, it's complicated. Yeah, there are

751
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: a lot of moments where you can start to wonder

752
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: if this is I think sometimes called like the constructionist

753
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: or core affect idea of emotions, where they're not these

754
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: discrete programs running in the brain, but they they're the

755
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: same thing. They're the same part of the same continuous

756
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 1: quantity and we just like apply categories to different zones

757
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: on this graph. Basically, uh, and and depending on what

758
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: the contextual clues are, because one level of high arousal

759
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: and negative emotion in one state might feel like, you know,

760
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: like anger and agitation, and in another state it might

761
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: be more like sadness, intense sadness. But obviously, you know,

762
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: I don't know which of these theories of emotion is

763
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: the correct one. But that's another thing that's at play

764
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: in all these studies. People are working off different theories

765
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: of emotion when they're trying to study whether emotions can

766
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: be modulated or caused by facial movements. Next big question

767
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: is awareness involved. If facial feedback does influence our emotions,

768
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: do you have to be consciously aware of the face

769
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: you're making or how you're moving your muscles, Like I

770
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: feel myself smiling. I know that smiles mean happiness, so

771
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: I feel happy? Or do these facial movements if the

772
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: facial feedback hypothesis is correct, do these facial movements influence

773
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: our emotions unconsciously through uh, you know, through feedback mechanisms

774
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: that happen outside of our awareness. Huh, Well, my experience

775
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: for whatever that's worth. I find that being aware of

776
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: your happiness is once you're fire away to potentially bring

777
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: it down. You know, that's a good point. Like so,

778
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: but but then again, I don't know how that but

779
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: that actually relates to naither research here. Well, it's it's

780
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: it's hard to think yourself happy, but it's pretty easy

781
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 1: to think yourself sad. Now, one thing we mentioned earlier

782
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: is like some of those studies are are aimed at

783
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: trying to show that the the effect happens without conscious awareness,

784
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: Like the pin in the mouth study. Right, if you

785
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: put a pin between people's teeth and that makes them

786
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: feel happier, I'll be they're not going to be aware

787
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: of the fact that they're smiling. They've just got a

788
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: pin in their teeth. Uh, So that for what? And

789
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: there were studies that showed something like that, I think

790
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen eighties. However, that was the study

791
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: that failed replication in recent years, so people tried to

792
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: do the experiment again didn't get the same result. That

793
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: means that either there was something wrong with the initial

794
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: experiment or with all the replication attempts, or they could

795
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: both be sound but arriving at different results. Because there's

796
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: some important difference that's not being controlled for their So

797
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: that that's something I don't know the answer to yet.

798
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: I think I saw there might be a study that

799
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: was trying to resolve whatever difference was going on there,

800
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: but but I I didn't have time to look into that.

801
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: One more big question. Does facial feedback have an effect

802
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: on affective judgments? So not just how you feel, but

803
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: what you think about other things? You know, third parties.

804
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: What what do you think about this cup? What do

805
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: you think about this microphone? I'm sorry that a cup

806
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: is so often an example that we invoke on in

807
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: the moment here and it's a it's either going to

808
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: be that or the foam soundproofing board. So so, but

809
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: what do you think about these things? So, if our

810
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: facial expressions modulate our emotions, do they do just that

811
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: or do they also change the ways that we make

812
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: judgments about these external objects, people and and situations. And

813
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: the authors called this the affective judgments hypothesis. Uh, disfrowning

814
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: make you view another person more negatively. So obviously, all

815
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: these theoretical disagreements make a meta analysis of the facial

816
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: feedback hypothesis really difficult, because despite how many studies there are. Now,

817
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: they're not all testing exactly the same thing, they're not

818
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 1: all working from the same theoretical framework. So the authors

819
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: had to like code for all these differences in what's

820
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: being tested in each study, as well as lots of

821
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: other moderators, including how the facial feedback was manipulated for example,

822
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, the pin and the teeth, or just asking

823
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: people to do a facial pose, or even experimenting with

824
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: people who have had botoxic injections that restrict facial movement.

825
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: That's an interesting on yeah, uh. And then other moderators

826
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: like the timing of measurement, uh, the gender for example,

827
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: some earlier research had found that maybe men were more

828
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: susceptible to body feedback on average than women. Uh, and

829
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: weather subjects were aware of being video recorded and things

830
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: like that. Alright, so time for the results. Uh. The

831
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: I would say, the top line here is that some

832
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: facial feedback effects seem to be real, but the effect

833
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: is not huge. The overall body of research suggests that

834
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: the effect is real, it is significant, but it's relatively small,

835
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: and it's variable based on a lot of different things,

836
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 1: like on these theoretical disagreements and moderating variables that we

837
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, So just a few key selections from the

838
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: specifics of the results. UH One is this question about

839
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: initiation versus modulation, Right, can facial feedback only influence pre

840
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: existing emotions or can it actually create new emotional experiences

841
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: from a starting neutral state, And the evidence shows it

842
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: can definitely do both. In fact, contrary to many historical

843
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: predictions and assumptions, the initiation of emotions through facial posing

844
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: is pretty well supported by evidence and seems to be

845
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: pretty easy to demonstrate. So it's not just the modulation

846
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: of what you're already feeling. You. They've shown a bunch

847
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: of times now that you can just take people, make

848
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: them do a facial pose and it does sort of

849
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: generate an emotion from out of nowhere. However, there is

850
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: more evidence for some emotions than others, like that there

851
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: is evidence of a small facial feedback effect for most emotions,

852
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: but not for a couple of key ones, surprise and fear.

853
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: So people who make a happy face, the evidence shows,

854
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: on average, will tend to feel more happy. But if

855
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: you make a surprised face or a fearful face, there

856
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: is not yet good evidence that you will feel those

857
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: two emotions, though the authors caution this conclusion because they

858
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: say there aren't a whole lot of studies on the

859
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: feedback effect for fear and surprise is somehow I can

860
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: really see how this would be the case for surprise.

861
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: I don't know how you could simulate surprise just by

862
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: putting a surprise face on the Surprise seems so much

863
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: more really dependent on actual facts of your surroundings. Yeah,

864
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: I wonder if if part of this might be that

865
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: they're just you know, if we go back to you

866
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about with Graziano and his um um,

867
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, monkey A and Monkey B scenario. Um, Like,

868
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: is there ever a necessity to to fake surprise? I mean,

869
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: certainly if there's a surprise birthday party and you knew

870
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 1: about it and you're like, oh yeah, or your people

871
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: suck at that, right, Yeah, I mean we we do,

872
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: Like when you I think most of us, if we

873
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: were asked to fake surprise, we would we would have

874
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: a hard time doing anything convincing, you know, like it's

875
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: generally the kind of thing where again it's a it's

876
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: a surprise party that you knew about, or you're humoring

877
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: like a child's um uh, you know, game of of

878
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: scaring you or something, whereas faking um you know, these

879
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: other emotions would have much more advantage and are much

880
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: more a part of the human emotional deception tool chest. Yeah,

881
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: I think that's right, though, I just do want to

882
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: reiterate again their their caution that this may just be

883
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: because there are fewer studies on on these emotions, and

884
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: we don't know that in a really strong way. But

885
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: the evidence for those two emotions is not as strong

886
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: as it is for all the others, right, Like, I

887
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: don't know that I've ever been though accused of faking fear,

888
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, like no one said, No one's ever written

889
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: into the show and said you, I don't think you

890
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: were really afraid when you were talking about this particular

891
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: frightening concept. I think you were faking your fear. I've

892
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: never thought about this before. But what emotion is most

893
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: often acted badly in movies? What emotion are people the

894
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: worst at trying to portray in a fictional scenario? Oh man,

895
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: I've seen them. I've seen them all done poorly, and

896
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: it contain spectacular in any case. I mean, with fear

897
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: and surprise, you know, we can certainly think to really affect,

898
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: like when it's done well through whatever acting method is employed,

899
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: like it really sticks in your mind. It's a reason

900
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: that we how many of us right now are thinking

901
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: of Donald Sutherland from the the an Invasion of the

902
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: Body Snatchers film. You know, it's such an iconic cinematic

903
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: uh you know, moment of just absolute um fear, right,

904
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: But a lot of directors actually go out of their

905
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: way to create real surprises on sets for the actors

906
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: when they want to get a truly shocked and surprised response.

907
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking of the scene and Alien where the

908
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: thing bursts out of John Hurt's chest. Uh. You know

909
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: the first time the actors didn't know exactly what was

910
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: going to happen in that scene. I think they thought

911
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 1: something was going to happen, but they didn't have all

912
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: the details. I think an important thing that Ridley Scott

913
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: was going for there was trying to make sure that

914
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: they got a real look of shock on their faces.

915
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: May because even though they were all great actors, he

916
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: didn't trust them enough with surprise. Yeah, there are there

917
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: are a number of different filmmaking stories about that right

918
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: where where you end up having this rift between the

919
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: actors and the director because the director assumes that they

920
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: need to tell some sort of stunt to get that

921
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of emotion out of them. Um. Was it the

922
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: Exorcist where they were allegations or stories about him like

923
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: firing Uh, like a firearm being discharged on the set

924
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: to make all the actors beyond edge. Yeah, there are

925
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: a lot of bad stories about the production of The Exorcist. Okay, okay,

926
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: we got to go back to this. So. Um a

927
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: couple more things in their results. Is awareness necessary? Do

928
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: you have to be aware that you're expressing an emotion

929
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: on your face for the expression to influence your feelings?

930
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: The results did not demonstrate that you have to be aware,

931
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: but they also don't disconfirm there might be some role

932
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: for self perception in some cases. Uh. Do facial movements

933
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: influence affective judgments, you know, judging other things? The authors

934
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: found this question, unlike the general question of facial feedback,

935
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: suffered from publication bias, uh and so. And that's of course,

936
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: when studies confirming and effect are more likely to be

937
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: published than the same studies if they had disconfirmed the effect.

938
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 1: Uh and so. When that bias was corrected for the

939
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: results did not yet indicate strong evidence for facial expressions

940
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: changing affect of judgment. However, the author's caution against abandoning

941
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: this line of inquiry because this one could be highly

942
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: context dependent. They point out that there's some other research

943
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: in psychology that suggests emotions only change our judgments about

944
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: external stimuli in some contexts, maybe like when emotion seems

945
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: relevant to the thing you're judging. More research is needed

946
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: here to invoke a cliche. But then then they also

947
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 1: talk about how their findings interact with some competing psychological

948
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: theories on the nature of emotion, like we talked about earlier. Um,

949
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: you know that this question of our emotions like happiness

950
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: and anger and fear discrete programs within the brain or

951
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: are they contextual categorizations of different variations of intensity and valance?

952
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: With this more basic core affect and the results of

953
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: the meta analysis show that facial feedback can influence not

954
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: only reports of basic emotions, but dimensional reports that would

955
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: be in line with the theory of emotions more based

956
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: on core affect. So facial feedback doesn't really solve this question.

957
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: As best I can tell, it could be consistent with

958
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: either way of looking at what emotions are uh. They

959
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: also found that results even within the same categories were

960
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: fairly variable, suggesting that there were influences on these effects

961
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: that are not recorded in the data and that they

962
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: weren't able to test. And one example they give of

963
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: what this might be is perhaps facial feedback effects are

964
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: stronger in populations that are on average more quote attentive

965
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: to their bodily cues, including but not limited to appropriate

966
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: receptive cue is from the face. And of course appropriate

967
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: reception is our sensation. It is when we have more

968
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 1: than five senses, right, It's one of the body senses

969
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: that lets us know where the parts of our body are.

970
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 1: It's how you can know where your hands are even

971
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: when your eyes are closed. Um. And so it's this

972
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: part of this approprio sceptive sense uh and and this

973
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: could be an influencing factor. But the studies, of course

974
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: haven't tried to record or measure this. And I take

975
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: this to mean that people who have stronger senses of

976
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: inter reception in general, the sensations within their own bodies,

977
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: those people might be more sensitive to feelings created by

978
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: the movements of the muscles in their face. And they

979
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: also cite maybe different exclusion criteria on different studies could

980
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: have influenced why some of the results are so variable.

981
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: But they say in the end that quote, the cumulative

982
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: evidence to date suggests that facial feedback does indeed influence

983
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: emotional experience, given all the caveats we just talked about.

984
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: So I think that's interesting. So, like, what are some

985
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: takeaways from this Number One? We don't know yet when

986
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: and why the effects will be largest, and in general,

987
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: the effects are real but kind of small. Though you

988
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: could see how this knowledge could be applied to some

989
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: kind of therapeutic uses. I think we probably don't know

990
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: enough about it to to use it most effectively that

991
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: way yet. But say, if you are trying to test

992
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: and see, you know, could I make myself feel better

993
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 1: by just making my face smile. It's it's at least

994
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: one of those things where I think the risks and

995
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: downsides associated with trying that out are probably extremely low, right,

996
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: I mean, especially if you're not like to come back

997
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: to the yoga example, like if one does experiment with

998
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: smiling during certain poses, like you're not you're also doing

999
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: all the yoga, you're doing the you know, there's also

1000
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 1: the experience of say, you know, working with the teacher,

1001
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: of being in the space. They're all these other factors

1002
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: that are contributing, and you're not going to make or

1003
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: break it uh necessarily by engaging and uh and this

1004
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: smiling exercise. Uh. Likewise, it should point out though, that

1005
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: that there are other things that exercise the one does

1006
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: with your your face that I would that could possibly

1007
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: play a role here, being, for instance, just moving your

1008
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: face around in hot ways, or making what is referred

1009
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: to as line and face where you can just make

1010
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: an exaggerated like uh, you know, childish, cartoonish monster face

1011
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: out of your own face, and like that can be

1012
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: kind of a way of potentially just like clearing whatever

1013
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: is physically going on with your face that could be

1014
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 1: exerting this mild influence on your emotional disposition. Yeah. Well,

1015
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 1: I I wouldn't be surprised if there could be like

1016
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: a making monster faces in the mirror therapy kind of thing,

1017
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: Like you make your monster faces in the mirror and

1018
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: then there's some kind of change in the emotional centers

1019
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: of the brain caused by these facial muscle movements. Yeah,

1020
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: like maybe it is a signaling. Um, I mean to

1021
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: get back to the lion thing. Maybe it is some

1022
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: sort of like dominance and and um uh you know

1023
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: aggression that is related. Or maybe it's simply like your

1024
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 1: brain is not that familiar with it, Like do I

1025
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: ever make lion face? Uh the rest of the time

1026
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: in my life? I don't think I really do. So

1027
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:53,959
Speaker 1: maybe my I'm just I don't have like a bunch

1028
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: of you know, emotional material just like lined up for

1029
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: that particular facial fee. Yeah, And so I would emphasize

1030
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: again like obviously we don't know how effective this could

1031
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: be in the long run. It like you say, you

1032
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: were trying to do something really serious like battle depression

1033
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: or something. We're not necessarily saying this is the fix

1034
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: because again the effects are small. We don't know exactly

1035
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: how effective it would be that kind of thing, or

1036
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: what way is what ways you could manipulate the scenario

1037
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: to make it more effective. But like I said, this

1038
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: is something that does seem like a very low risk

1039
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: kind of thing to try if you are trying to

1040
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: manipulate your own moods and emotions, and certainly much you know,

1041
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: lower risk than a lot of the things people actually

1042
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: do to try to regulate their emotions, like self medicating

1043
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: with drugs and alcohol and all that, right, Yeah, And

1044
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: of course, you know, again, I do want to come

1045
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: back to the fact that there are cultural differences in

1046
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: the way that we use smiles and um and react

1047
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: to smiles. So I mean that's always something to keep

1048
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: in mind as well, like is it a given culture

1049
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: aware smiling is done more given culture or even a

1050
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: given individual, where smiling when embarrassed and when embarrassed is

1051
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: more of a you know, a typical feature, Like how

1052
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: would that influence any of this? Yeah, I'm sure that

1053
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: could contribute. Yeah, And then also thinking about like the

1054
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: full body scenario we're talking about earlier with the with

1055
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: the the hypothetical apes reacting to each other, Like if

1056
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: if you're dealing with a smile and it's just you know,

1057
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: in some of these experiments and it's just isolated to

1058
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: the face, Uh, is that truly the expression or is

1059
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: the is this should the smile be part of a

1060
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: like a broader you know, a physical manifestation. Well, another

1061
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: thing that makes me think of is, uh, you know,

1062
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:37,959
Speaker 1: this came up a little bit when we're thing about

1063
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: the idea of research that use people who had botox

1064
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: injections in the face, uh to see you know, if

1065
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: that affected their emotional cognition. This makes me think more

1066
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: generally about the relationship between skeletal muscle in the face

1067
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: and throughout the body and our emotional states and whether

1068
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: there could be relationships there that we don't fully understand yet,

1069
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: but that how you use your body contributes to your

1070
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 1: state of mind at resolutely. But you know, the great

1071
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: thing about all this is that is that this is

1072
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: a wonderful area for individual experience and feedback on this episode.

1073
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: Like everybody out there has experienced with emotions and have

1074
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: you ever smiled? Have you ever smiled? Um? Have you

1075
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: ever frowned? I mean, you know, we've discussed cultural differences

1076
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: in individual differences, so I would I would love to

1077
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: hear some details about about that from folks out there. Um,

1078
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: you know, what are your experiences with being told to smile?

1079
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: What are your experiences with being you know, encouraged to

1080
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 1: smile during yoga? Or laughter? Yoga is a whole other area.

1081
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: We're talking more about laughter than than just smiling alone there,

1082
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: but that's very much a situation where the idea is

1083
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: pretend to laugh until you were laughing. And I've I've

1084
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: I've tried that. I tried it a few times, and

1085
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: I find that it works to like a reasonable degree.

1086
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: Like I don't feel like laughter has possessed me bodily,

1087
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: like there's some sort of a you know, a demon

1088
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: uh leeching into me. But I do find and myself

1089
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: you're looking for well, I don't know. I've not that

1090
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: I'm necessarily looking for it, but I've seen I've seen

1091
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: people um overcome with laughter and scenarios like that. Like basically,

1092
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: when I was in high school, I think I visited

1093
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: a church with a friend where they were doing some

1094
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: form of faith healing. I'm not sure what the terminology

1095
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: is for it, but where an individual would be touched

1096
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: by the pastor and instead of just simply like you know,

1097
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: falling to the floor being healed of their ailment, they

1098
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: would begin laughing hysterically. That was the physical manifestation of

1099
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 1: being touched with you know, the Holy Spirit or whatever

1100
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: they the description was. So I guess I was kind

1101
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: of I could not help but think of that when

1102
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: engaging in laughter yoga, and and so I just want

1103
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: to drive home that my experience was not a situation

1104
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: of being overcome by you know, out of control laughter.

1105
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: But then again, the prime wasn't there for that to

1106
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: be the case either. So you know, could be a

1107
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: situation where if I were entering into it and people

1108
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: were saying, yeah, we're gonna do laughter yoga and you're

1109
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: gonna lose control of your body, then perhaps that would

1110
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: be more inclined to like to fall into that scenario.

1111
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: Laughter is weird, is what I'm saying. It is. It

1112
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: is weird. Yeah, It's something we can come back to again.

1113
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, if you have any any tidbits from

1114
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: your life that you would like to share with us,

1115
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: let us know. In the meantime, check out stuff to

1116
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership. That's we

1117
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: will find all the episodes, and we want to remind

1118
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: you if you want to support this show, the best

1119
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: thing you can do is tell your friends about it,

1120
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: tell you know, share, share the episodes with people you know,

1121
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: but also rate and review us wherever you have the

1122
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: power to do so. So, wherever you get this podcast,

1123
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: throw us some stars, leave a nice comment. It really

1124
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: helps us out huge. Thanks as always to our excellent

1125
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: audio producer, Terry Harrison, and to our guest producer Today Michael.

1126
01:01:58,200 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

1127
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 1: to a with feedback on this episode or any other,

1128
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 1: to suggest topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1129
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1130
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

1131
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios How stuff Works. For more

1132
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1133
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.