Speaker 1: Hey everyone, and welcome to the latest edition of Dirt
Speaker 1: from the Dugout. Justin Musil Carl Ravitch, How you doing, buddy,
Speaker 1: How was the week?
Speaker 2: Oh it was good, man, it was good. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a busy time of year. Obviously, baseball is rolling.
Speaker 2: You know how it goes, Buddy, you're busy too. I
Speaker 2: know you're excited from your two under par today probably right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: There was not. Let's see, it was a scramble, so
Speaker 1: you can actually go under. But this was for the
Speaker 1: Miracle League in a town nearby where I live, Waterford, Connecticut.
Speaker 1: So it's again it's promoting the sport of baseball. It's
Speaker 1: for kids who need some help doing it, and just
Speaker 1: a phenomenal cause. You know who I saw there today
Speaker 1: was Raj Davis. Of course home runs and yeah the
Speaker 1: Cleveland then Indians now Guardians against the Chicago Cubs. Memorable
Speaker 1: home run. Really really a good guy. So it's good
Speaker 1: to see Raji Davis and catch up with him. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, we're starting to gain some traction with Dirt
Speaker 1: from the Dugout, and you know he's involved, he was
Speaker 1: involved with Major League Baseball. He now got his own
Speaker 1: deal going where he's helping current players who are struggling
Speaker 1: and not necessarily with their skill set, but you know
Speaker 1: that a guy who's hitting one seventy is probably more
Speaker 1: capable of hitting you know, two seventy, three hundred or
Speaker 1: we're driving the ball, and he's doing a good thing here,
Speaker 1: I think, and try to assist these guys to maximize
Speaker 1: their potential as a former player, trying to tap into
Speaker 1: some of the things that can bring out their best.
Speaker 1: So it was good to talk with Raja and maybe
Speaker 1: someday we'll get him on dirt from the dugout.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I mean, he's obviously pretty well known for
Speaker 2: the big home run, but.
Speaker 3: Great to hear that he's still involved.
Speaker 2: And it's always exciting when you can be involved in
Speaker 2: things that are really positive, right like that, And that's
Speaker 2: a big part of why we're doing this. And I've
Speaker 2: gotten so many dms and emails over the last two
Speaker 2: weeks with our start with this, so it's really cool
Speaker 2: to just hear from people.
Speaker 3: And that's that's what we're trying to do.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 2: We're just trying to reach people and teach teach a
Speaker 2: lot about the game and doing it the right way.
Speaker 2: And you know, the leadership stuff and just being a
Speaker 2: good person and all the things that I'm excited to
Speaker 2: talk to THEO about tonight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of our guests, theo Epstein's going to join
Speaker 1: us and in just a minute here. So we've had
Speaker 1: Mark de Rosa on, we had Roger Clemens on, and
Speaker 1: tonight we're going to have theo Epstein on. And you know,
Speaker 1: just a little background with me. I've known THEO a
Speaker 1: long time. I consider him a friend, but I consider
Speaker 1: him somebody who walks into a room and without demanding respect.
Speaker 1: He commands respect. That comes from his approachability, it comes
Speaker 1: from his education, it comes from his ability to relate
Speaker 1: to the clubby as well as the superstar player. He's
Speaker 1: very authentic, He's very human, and over the years in
Speaker 1: my dealing with him, I got a real appreciation for
Speaker 1: his eclectic nature. This is not just a one trick
Speaker 1: I'm only into baseball type of guy, and we'll learn
Speaker 1: about that over the course of the next forty five minutes.
Speaker 1: But those are the some of the things that just
Speaker 1: impressed me most about him. He's a guy that could
Speaker 1: do anything.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: It doesn't like to talk about himself. I know it
Speaker 1: doesn't like to listen to what I'm saying right now,
Speaker 1: but those are all those are all truisms. And you know,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear his story and his journey.
Speaker 1: And it's not a conventional one. I mean, this isn't
Speaker 1: a guy that you know played at the highest level.
Speaker 1: He's not a he's not a future Hall of Fame player.
Speaker 1: He's clearly a Hall of Fame executive. So it just
Speaker 1: again shows you know, parents out there who have kids
Speaker 1: that are interested in sports, not just baseball, but all sports.
Speaker 1: There is nothing linear about the path that you are
Speaker 1: currently on, whether your child is five, fifteen or twenty two.
Speaker 1: And THEO is a great example of that, justin Yeah.
Speaker 3: Man, all that, all that and more. I love that.
Speaker 2: You know, we'll talk more about this, but just with
Speaker 2: the background, he did bring in a unique approach to
Speaker 2: how baseball was done too, And uh, you know, you
Speaker 2: and I have both heard a lot of stories and
Speaker 2: and I know THEO is not interested in diving back
Speaker 2: into you know, some of the specifics of those and
Speaker 2: and uh, but there's there's a parent in there too, right,
Speaker 2: He's a dad. So it's it's gonna be really interesting
Speaker 2: to talk to him about just just his kids and
Speaker 2: and what they're doing, and and the journey there too,
Speaker 2: and and what he's passing along too.
Speaker 3: So just really excited to talk with him tonight.
Speaker 1: Rabbi, all right, let's uh, let's bring in our guest
Speaker 1: of honor tonight. He is the senior advisor part owner
Speaker 1: of Fenway Sports Group and now joins us on Dirt
Speaker 1: from the dugout. That is uh my buddy, Theo Epstein THEO.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for doing this. We really appreciate and
Speaker 1: uh and welcome to the program.
Speaker 4: Rabbi justin, thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 5: I've been looking forward to this, but you're trying to
Speaker 5: get me post traumatic stress disorder right off the bat
Speaker 5: by talking about Roger Davis.
Speaker 4: That's that's cool.
Speaker 1: I know I turned out well, did turn out, and
Speaker 1: I did see him today.
Speaker 3: GRAB went a little bit long on the Raja Davis
Speaker 3: thing there. I didn't know what the slant was there, and.
Speaker 5: I was getting the sweats just thinking about it. But
Speaker 5: he is a great guy and a terrific ambassador for
Speaker 5: the game. A great development story too, Yeah, working his
Speaker 5: way up to the big leagues and having the career
Speaker 5: that he had and is always looking to give back
Speaker 5: through the role at MLB and and all over the place.
Speaker 4: So we'll talk ROI anytime.
Speaker 1: Good, Uh, let's talk THEO for a second here. And
Speaker 1: I know and everybody who's watching this nose and you
Speaker 1: know you're the curse breaker, et cetera. But I know
Speaker 1: you back from your days and I didn't know you then,
Speaker 1: but I know your upbringing. Why don't you share a
Speaker 1: little bit about the the sort of the way that
Speaker 1: you got into sports and what the development of theo
Speaker 1: Epstein was really like. Not that you have to take
Speaker 1: me through to where you are today, but what it
Speaker 1: was like growing up theo Epstein.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean breaking into baseball.
Speaker 5: I was just a kid growing up kind of in
Speaker 5: the shadow Famway Park, grew up less than a mile
Speaker 5: from Famway. Was one of the tens of thousands of
Speaker 5: New Englanders who thought he was going to play shortstop
Speaker 5: for the Red Sox some day. And uh, I threw
Speaker 5: too many through way too many curve balls in uh,
Speaker 5: in Little League and in high school. So that's that's
Speaker 5: one thing we have to cover today, is to follow
Speaker 5: the protocols and save the break and stuff for when
Speaker 5: you're a little bit older because my arm was hanging.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: But what I really got it was it was elbow
Speaker 4: and shoulder by the time I got done with my
Speaker 4: high school career. So best scouting report I ever made
Speaker 4: was on myself.
Speaker 5: I got to college, took a look around and realized
Speaker 5: I couldn't Unfortunately, could couldn't compete at that level. But
Speaker 5: it ended up being the best thing for me because
Speaker 5: I was from the time I was like two years old,
Speaker 5: I was always so passionate about baseball.
Speaker 4: I was telling my parents, I'm going to stay in
Speaker 4: this game forever.
Speaker 5: And so at that point, my only options were to,
Speaker 5: you know, try to try to get a job with
Speaker 5: the team, not playing in the front office. So I
Speaker 5: wrote letters to every major league team, got a lot
Speaker 5: of action letters, got nothing crickets back from a lot
Speaker 5: of teams, but got a phone call from Calvin Hill,
Speaker 5: Grant Hill's dad, who was a great NFL player, and
Speaker 5: he was working for the Baltimore Orioles at the time,
Speaker 5: and he invited me down for an interview and interviewed.
Speaker 5: Got an internship with the Orioles summer after my freshman
Speaker 5: year in college nineteen ninety two. First year, I came
Speaker 5: the yards, kind of did a little bit of everything
Speaker 5: and just dedicated myself to because I knew it might
Speaker 5: be my one opportunity to stay in baseball. So befriended
Speaker 5: Fred Dolman Jr. And a lot of guys in the
Speaker 5: scouting department with the Orioles. Kind of like worked my
Speaker 5: way a little bit into baseball operations, did a lot
Speaker 5: of pr a lot of everything, so intern of the
Speaker 5: Orioles my three high school, my three college summers, got
Speaker 5: invited by a few of the Orioles folks who went
Speaker 5: out to the pot to work for the Padres right
Speaker 5: after the lockout in ninety four. I got a job
Speaker 5: the day after I graduated college, went out to work
Speaker 5: for the Padres. Got an unbelievable breakout there, getting mentored
Speaker 5: by Kevin Towers, who at the time was just taking over.
Speaker 5: He was a young general manager of the Padres, and
Speaker 5: he was also newly married, and so he took a
Speaker 5: liking to me because he was kind of like getting domesticated,
Speaker 5: and I was.
Speaker 4: Twenty one years old right out of college.
Speaker 5: So he called me in his office every Monday morning
Speaker 5: and say THEO tell me everything I missed this weekend.
Speaker 4: And that's how we kind of hit it off. But
Speaker 4: he saw something in me.
Speaker 5: I think it was just my passion for the game,
Speaker 5: and he would you know, we were in southern California,
Speaker 5: so he was like, hey, do you know how to scout?
Speaker 4: I said, no, I don't.
Speaker 5: I mean I watched a ton of baseball I played
Speaker 5: through high school. I still try to play when I can,
Speaker 5: but no, And so he took me under his wing.
Speaker 5: He'd just take me out all over southern California. We
Speaker 5: saw every good player in the Pac Ten. We'd go
Speaker 5: see every good high school kid up and down southern California,
Speaker 5: and he kind of teach me how to scout, and
Speaker 5: then he and then he'd take me down to the
Speaker 5: I didn't even realize he was doing this at the time,
Speaker 5: but he'd take me down to the clubhouse with him
Speaker 5: and teach me how players really think, and what what
Speaker 5: clubhouse dynamics are all about, and what what a winning
Speaker 5: player looks like, and what a good teammate looks like.
Speaker 5: And throughout the whole rest of my career. Really, everywhere
Speaker 5: i'd go after I set out on my own left
Speaker 5: the Padres, I'd meet people who I'd find out later
Speaker 5: on Kevin had called ahead and my vout form.
Speaker 4: Really he was a good guy.
Speaker 5: Make sure you treat them right and yeah, unbelievable mentor
Speaker 5: to have. So Anyway, long story short, padres to Red Sox,
Speaker 5: Red Sox to Cubs and here we are.
Speaker 1: So well, there's a there's a million things to cover there,
Speaker 1: and I know Justin wants to get into the scouting
Speaker 1: side of it. But before we I just want to
Speaker 1: focus on what you said about rejection letters, because I
Speaker 1: think this speaks to the entire pursuit of whatever it
Speaker 1: is that you're after. I mean, i'd be honest with
Speaker 1: you THEO I started in a cable station in Ithaca
Speaker 1: and and tried so hard to find jobs, whether it
Speaker 1: be Springfield, mass or all but any it didn't matter.
Speaker 1: And it was like hitting a golf ball into a
Speaker 1: lake when you'd send out what back then was called
Speaker 1: resume tapes. I mean, I have a rejection letter. It's
Speaker 1: wider than the Yellow Pages, which I know people who
Speaker 1: are listening to this don't even know what they held
Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages are, but let's just say it was.
Speaker 1: It was thick. So what are the qualities that afforded
Speaker 1: you the opportunity to plow through the rejection letters. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure it connects with all the players you had
Speaker 1: who fail all the time and keep plowing through.
Speaker 4: What is that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you've drawn the first and most important parallel between
Speaker 5: life and baseball, which is, it's not whether you get
Speaker 5: a bad outcome, whether you fail, or whether you face adversity,
Speaker 5: because you absolutely will. It's it's built into the games.
Speaker 5: It's innate in the game of baseball failure and in life.
Speaker 5: There's no such thing as an easy path in life.
Speaker 5: If you dig deep enough, I like to say when
Speaker 5: we're talking about players in their backgrounds, it's true of
Speaker 5: all of us. Like if you dig deep enough, everyone's
Speaker 5: life is like a Russian novel. You know, there's there's
Speaker 5: there's always adversity, there's always failures, there's always disappointments, there's
Speaker 5: always times you disappoint yourself. But it's in baseball in life,
Speaker 5: it's it's it's how you handle failure, how you handle adversity,
Speaker 5: And that's something that sometimes you have to learn.
Speaker 4: And I think you've learned that through.
Speaker 5: Observation of others, role models, and then also through not
Speaker 5: handling it the right way. But you know with time,
Speaker 5: I think in maturity, if you focus on it, you
Speaker 5: can develop enough self awareness.
Speaker 4: That's the most important relationship you ultimately have is.
Speaker 5: Kind of with yourself and and and and learning to
Speaker 5: be honest with yourself. Develop enough self awareness where you
Speaker 5: can take responsibility for your failures, where you can understand
Speaker 5: your foundation as a person, as a player, what makes
Speaker 5: you you, what your strengths are, and then also what
Speaker 5: your weaknesses are, and then come up with a plan
Speaker 5: not by yourself, but taking advantage of the resources around
Speaker 5: you uh to turn those weaknesses into strengths and develop.
Speaker 5: And then the perseverance, which is just not accepting failure
Speaker 5: and continuing to come back again and again and again
Speaker 5: as you work on your adjustments, which is what professional
Speaker 5: baseball is all about, until you ultimately get a different outcome.
Speaker 5: So so many parallels between baseball and life. I I, yeah,
Speaker 5: I got rejection letters, but I had I had one
Speaker 5: person and then ultimately you know a number of who believe.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's all it takes.
Speaker 5: And then recognizing an opportunity when when you see one,
Speaker 5: and dedicating yourself to it, and if you're lucky enough,
Speaker 5: a lot of people watching this podcast, are lucky enough
Speaker 5: to know their passion and know what's important to them,
Speaker 5: and know what you care about, and you made a
Speaker 5: great choice if baseball is a part of that, because
Speaker 5: this game can open so many doors for you. You
Speaker 5: can you can meet so many incredible people. You can
Speaker 5: make a life for yourself, not just a living but
Speaker 5: a fulfilling life where you ultimately can be connected with
Speaker 5: people in a special way that we often lose after
Speaker 5: childhood and you go off, you know, into a career.
Speaker 5: You're an account and your lawyer, you're counting widgets at
Speaker 5: a factor or whatever it may be. Oftentimes it can
Speaker 5: be solitary, but in baseball you're always connected. One of
Speaker 5: the things I love about the game. It gives you
Speaker 5: a chance to be to feel like you're part of
Speaker 5: something bigger than yourself. Every day you go to the ballpark,
Speaker 5: whether you're working in the front office, whether you're part
Speaker 5: of the team in the clubhouse, when you're grinding your
Speaker 5: way up through amateur ball, through the minor leagues, you're
Speaker 5: you're part of a team. And if it's done right,
Speaker 5: and you take that responsibility and teammate of being a
Speaker 5: teammate seriously, you get that privilege of feeling like you're
Speaker 5: part of something bigger than yourself, and that's when great
Speaker 5: things happen for the collective as well as for yourself
Speaker 5: and your own development. So if you're lucky enough to
Speaker 5: have identified that passion early on, lean into it, you know,
Speaker 5: lean into it, take really seriously the things that you
Speaker 5: can do to handle the failure in this game, and
Speaker 5: make the self assessments just I prove and persevere and
Speaker 5: continue to succeed in the game.
Speaker 4: Ultimately, Yeah, so good, It's so good.
Speaker 2: THEO and I just want to remind everybody, if you
Speaker 2: have any questions, go ahead and throw them, throw them
Speaker 2: in the Q and A chat or in the Q
Speaker 2: and A and we'll get to those. But the I
Speaker 2: want to go back to the scouting side. Man. This
Speaker 2: is it's super interesting because it's such an it's such
Speaker 2: an important part of an organization, right, And I think
Speaker 2: in all of the things that I'll just share my beliefs,
Speaker 2: I guess, but I think it gets lost in the
Speaker 2: chatter a little bit of where we're going, which I'm
Speaker 2: also supportive of. But I know you specifically, just having
Speaker 2: read some some things about you. It's such an it's
Speaker 2: such an important piece of it for you and your
Speaker 2: success and now hearing kind of some of the things
Speaker 2: that you went through to learn a lot of those
Speaker 2: things and to dive into the scouting side. Can you
Speaker 2: just touch on that a little bit on the scouting
Speaker 2: world and and scouting departments in general and the lifeblood
Speaker 2: per se that they are when it comes to building
Speaker 2: a franchise.
Speaker 3: Do you want to just touch on that a little bit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's it's probably an important time in
Speaker 5: the game to touch on that because we're right now,
Speaker 5: we're a little bit out of balance.
Speaker 4: You know, there's an equilibrium in the game where.
Speaker 5: Yeah, data is important, analytics and important, technology is important,
Speaker 5: and you can use those tools to help you make
Speaker 5: good predictions about how players are going to perform in
Speaker 5: the future.
Speaker 4: But if it's done at the exclusion of the human element, and.
Speaker 5: You know, the humanism essentially human beings getting to know
Speaker 5: other people, understanding what makes them tick, developing a connection
Speaker 5: with them, understanding them better that way, and putting them
Speaker 5: in a position to succeed, then it's not worth it.
Speaker 5: And you can you can you can fall out of balance,
Speaker 5: and and so you know, in some circles.
Speaker 4: They are you know, scouting and.
Speaker 5: Invest in and and seeing beyond the stats feet, seeing
Speaker 5: beyond the predictive model, and understanding you know, what really
Speaker 5: makes a person tick as a as a human, as
Speaker 5: a teammate and as a player. Is becoming a bit
Speaker 5: of a lost art and it really is the lifeblood.
Speaker 5: And I think one one one thing that's important I
Speaker 5: think for young players, youth players to know and parents
Speaker 5: to know, is that you know in the draft room. Yes, sure,
Speaker 5: most teams use models these days to to help understand,
Speaker 5: you know, players talent level and make a projection about
Speaker 5: his future. There are a lot of measurables obviously in
Speaker 5: the game these days, far far more than than there
Speaker 5: used to be, and those have a place and those
Speaker 5: are important. But even today, even with all the advancements,
Speaker 5: I think parents and young players would be shocked and
Speaker 5: how much of the conversation about a player in the
Speaker 5: draft room, And this is true in college recruiting circles
Speaker 5: as well. I know how much of the conversation revolves
Speaker 5: around everything off the field and who that player is
Speaker 5: as a human being, what kind of teammate they are.
Speaker 5: Matt Dory, your friend Justin Will tell you time and
Speaker 5: time again. You know, we wouldn't draft a player back
Speaker 5: in the Red Sox days and in the Cubs days
Speaker 5: without the scout putting in pages and pages and pages
Speaker 5: of background information about the player, about what makes.
Speaker 4: Him who he is.
Speaker 5: So you know, three examples when the players face adversity
Speaker 5: off the field and how he responded. Three examples of
Speaker 5: how the players face adversity on the field and how
Speaker 5: he responded. What his teammates say about him, what his
Speaker 5: friends say about him, what his girlfriends say about him,
Speaker 5: What does ex girlfriends say about him? How he treats
Speaker 5: people when no one's looking, how he treats the worst
Speaker 5: player on the tream, how he treats the equipment guy.
Speaker 5: Does he act different in front of the camera when
Speaker 5: he's not in front of the camera. Everything, obviously, everything
Speaker 5: that goes on in the house that you can find out,
Speaker 5: the family upbringing, all the things that make an individual
Speaker 5: unique and that ultimately represent his character. That's so important
Speaker 5: when when you're trying to predict the type of player,
Speaker 5: the type of member of an organization, this individual is
Speaker 5: going to be five ten years down the line. And
Speaker 5: obviously scouting and scouts do such a good job of
Speaker 5: writing that part of the story. That's something that you know,
Speaker 5: no predictive model can tell you. So we just have
Speaker 5: to make sure the game stays in proper equilibrium, that
Speaker 5: we're balancing, you know, both sides of the equation, the
Speaker 5: analytical side as well as the human side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a solid goal, that answer. And I think
Speaker 1: for parents of players that are you know, let's just
Speaker 1: say they're between the ages of seven and twelve right now,
Speaker 1: this idea that you're not spinning it, you're not throwing
Speaker 1: it as hard as you possibly can, and your exit
Speaker 1: lunacy like exit velocity on an eleven year old makes
Speaker 1: no sense. But all these character traits can be instilled
Speaker 1: in these boys and girls, if you will, that are
Speaker 1: growing up and playing these sports. Where did you get
Speaker 1: that stuff from? Where did it come from? Was it
Speaker 1: as simple as mom and dad were? Were there kg's
Speaker 1: out there? Where'd you get it?
Speaker 5: Well, let's let me ask that in a minute. First,
Speaker 5: kind I just dig in on like the measurables you
Speaker 5: just talked about.
Speaker 4: And young kids.
Speaker 5: I've seen this through my own kids at practice, and
Speaker 5: just like such young players chasing vlow and spin ray
Speaker 5: and exit v low and hitting exclusively off hit tracks
Speaker 5: and stuff.
Speaker 4: I think what's important. There is a place for that.
Speaker 5: It is important if you want to develop a skill,
Speaker 5: understanding the components that go into that skill and then
Speaker 5: training for them.
Speaker 4: That's that's common sense.
Speaker 5: And and you know, there are a lot of advances,
Speaker 5: and I think in general we trained smarter now than
Speaker 5: we used to. However, there's a cost associated with that too,
Speaker 5: especially if you start at too young an age, Because
Speaker 5: anytime you're chasing something, whether it's velo or spin or
Speaker 5: exit velo, when you're chasing something and so you're training
Speaker 5: for it and you're optimizing for it, and you're teaching
Speaker 5: your body to produce it in a certain way, you're
Speaker 5: also ignoring a lot of other things that aren't measured
Speaker 5: quite as precisely just yet. And so a great example
Speaker 5: if you think back to just you know, think about
Speaker 5: what scouting was like before the radar gun, right before
Speaker 5: you could precisely measure velocity. When a scout would write
Speaker 5: or report and he'd describe the picture's fastball, he'd write
Speaker 5: about the velocity, he'd describe it, but he'd also he'd
Speaker 5: balance that and you'd also write about the deception and
Speaker 5: the command and the movement and everything else that goes
Speaker 5: into a great fastball. And back before the raidar gun,
Speaker 5: we probably had it in better proportion. We're a better balance,
Speaker 5: and velocity is important, but so is command, so is deception,
Speaker 5: so is moving. And then once technology came along and
Speaker 5: we had the raidar gun, there became an over reliance
Speaker 5: on velocity, where now a scout could just describe the fastball, Hey,
Speaker 5: you know, he tops out at ninety three point four,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna put him ahead of this other guy who's
Speaker 5: ninety three point two. And what's lost in the conversation
Speaker 5: or what do you sort of unintentionally ignoring everything else
Speaker 5: that makes a good fastball, the.
Speaker 4: Command, reception, the velocity.
Speaker 5: And so this now sort of extrapolate that to the
Speaker 5: development of a young player. And we are training for
Speaker 5: certain outcomes that are very precisely measured, and so we
Speaker 5: obsess over them. But just think for a second about
Speaker 5: what else you're ignoring in that pursuit all the other
Speaker 5: components that go into playing the game the right way,
Speaker 5: important baseball skills, and then yeah, the whole human side
Speaker 5: of you know, training yourself to be a good teammate,
Speaker 5: training yourself to have like a you know, a sound
Speaker 5: mental foundation that you can fall back on, you know,
Speaker 5: to play the game successfully and deal with failure successfully
Speaker 5: and be a good teammate.
Speaker 4: So it's just it's.
Speaker 5: Important to even as you chase certain things that are
Speaker 5: measured and we use technology in our training, don't lose
Speaker 5: sight of the bigger picture. And other things can be
Speaker 5: important too, even if they're not precisely measurable.
Speaker 4: So it's had to kind of get that.
Speaker 1: No, it's a good point. Your point is it's in
Speaker 1: ignoring it or sacrificing the development of other you know, characteristics,
Speaker 1: quality skills. This is the multi sport versus let's focus
Speaker 1: on one, and if you focus on one, you sacrifice
Speaker 1: the others, which could benefit the whole package.
Speaker 5: But I hear you dynamic about Yeah, play play difference.
Speaker 5: It's a lot healthier. I'm sure every guest has mentioned this.
Speaker 5: But play as many sports as you can. Please, play
Speaker 5: three sports for as long as you can. It'll it'll
Speaker 5: help your body, it'll help your mind, it'll maintain your
Speaker 5: love and passion for the game longer as you don't
Speaker 5: experience mental burnout or physical burnout. That way, it will
Speaker 5: help you develop as an athlete as well and teach
Speaker 5: you a lot of lessons.
Speaker 4: But yeah, you're you're definitely right.
Speaker 5: But you asked sort of where where I've I guess,
Speaker 5: developed a certain outlook on what's important in the game,
Speaker 5: on on the field and off the field. You know,
Speaker 5: I'll give my dad a ton of credit. Today is
Speaker 5: actually the one year anniversary of his of his passing unfortunately,
Speaker 5: so we've been we've been celebrating him today. But yeah,
Speaker 5: some of my earliest memories are going to Famiway Park
Speaker 5: with him, and him and my twin brother and my
Speaker 5: dad kind of teaching us what do you call the
Speaker 5: finer points of the game, and and and sitting out
Speaker 5: there and as a young young kid looking out at
Speaker 5: the field of Family Park and just ryan to find
Speaker 5: something that I could notice about the strategy of the game,
Speaker 5: or something I thought was going to happen on the field,
Speaker 5: or something I noticed a player do that I could
Speaker 5: I could tell my dad and kind of impress him
Speaker 5: and get awarded a finer point that he would he
Speaker 5: would bestow upon me. And then and he'd, you know,
Speaker 5: he'd show up. He was the English professor and a novelist.
Speaker 5: So he'd show up to every single one of my games.
Speaker 5: He was the only one sitting there reading the New
Speaker 5: York Review of Books and oftentimes during the innings.
Speaker 4: But I'd come off.
Speaker 5: The field no matter, no matter what he would he
Speaker 5: would tell me that was a major league curveball right there,
Speaker 5: that that was you know, no one, you know, no
Speaker 5: one could have made Glenn Hoffman couldn't have made that
Speaker 5: play in the hole. Just incredibly positive, no matter no
Speaker 5: matter what was going on on the field, and just
Speaker 5: you know, to have have that solid foundation from your
Speaker 5: parents where they're fueling your love of the game without
Speaker 5: forcing it on you.
Speaker 4: Where there's unconditional.
Speaker 5: Love and support, I think is like the foundation the
Speaker 5: building block that kids need to then find their own
Speaker 5: way in the game.
Speaker 1: And positive reinforcement, like your dad said, positive reinforcement.
Speaker 4: Come on, there's gonna be enough negative feedback. The game is.
Speaker 5: Humbling enough, there's getting right enough vals out there. You
Speaker 5: don't you don't need that from the place where you
Speaker 5: kind of look for unconditional support, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, THEO I'm gonna I'm gonna switch gears on you
Speaker 2: a little bit here. There's been a viral video right
Speaker 2: with Anthony Rizzo and and Ross and Lester kind of
Speaker 2: sharing a story about a.
Speaker 3: Negotiation at two AM.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: We won't get into the details on that, but you know,
Speaker 2: after kind of watching something like that, I think it
Speaker 2: creates a personal element of it, of humanizing people in
Speaker 2: charge and leadership and things like that that I really
Speaker 2: loved about it. And I think that's one of the
Speaker 2: things that's kind of endearing about the whole story is
Speaker 2: just it's there. There are things that happen behind the
Speaker 2: scenes that a lot of people don't see, right, But
Speaker 2: I will love your version of that story. You've probably
Speaker 2: heard it and listened to it. What's your version of
Speaker 2: that story?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll tell you first. I'll say you're You're so right.
Speaker 5: The game is all about relationships. And I'll be the
Speaker 5: first to admit, like when I when I first took
Speaker 5: over as GM of the Red Sox, I was twenty eight,
Speaker 5: I probably relied too much on being transactional with how
Speaker 5: I was putting the team together and the decisions I
Speaker 5: was making, and didn't invest enough time because I was
Speaker 5: kind of underwater. I was just trying to drink it
Speaker 5: from fire hose and just trying to figure it all out.
Speaker 5: I didn't invest in enough time in getting to know
Speaker 5: the players and being real with them and being human,
Speaker 5: and I quickly realized that I was sort of cheating
Speaker 5: myself and cheating the organization.
Speaker 4: And no matter, no matter what, no matter.
Speaker 5: How busy I was, I needed to find time to
Speaker 5: just be around and get and get to know the
Speaker 5: guys and be there for them and be supportive, be honest,
Speaker 5: which is another lesson I learned. But develop relationships, and
Speaker 5: it's everything in the game, it's what those connections are
Speaker 5: what make a winning organization, and then they can make
Speaker 5: your career too, like you know, if you do it right,
Speaker 5: and you know justin for me in the game and
Speaker 5: Raby too. You operate this way even from a media perspective,
Speaker 5: like if you develop authentic, real relationships, you're constantly all
Speaker 5: day long, it's picking up the phone calling people, checking
Speaker 5: in on them and get and if you have a
Speaker 5: question about a player or a situation or a team,
Speaker 5: like you're constantly getting great information because you've developed these
Speaker 5: real relationships and trusting relationships that sort of mean mean everything.
Speaker 5: But so you know that story that was you know,
Speaker 5: a couple of guys I'd just gotten to know over
Speaker 5: the years from from being on the same side with them.
Speaker 5: John Lester I was there in the two thousand and
Speaker 5: two draft when we when we chose.
Speaker 4: This lanky, left handed pitcher and first.
Speaker 5: Baseman out of Washington and John Lester, and people think
Speaker 5: he's from like the South because he's like a self
Speaker 5: prescribed Redneck, and he does as far away from the
Speaker 5: South as you can get. But getting getting getting to
Speaker 5: know him as as a young player, and then obviously
Speaker 5: the character that he showed overcoming cancer in his in
Speaker 5: his rookie year in the big leagues and coming back
Speaker 5: and and and pitching the decisive game in the World Series,
Speaker 5: and just the type of leader and teammate. He's one
Speaker 5: of the most generous players with his time and his money,
Speaker 5: and how thoughtful he is helping young players break in,
Speaker 5: setting a great example and creating that team Dyna Max.
Speaker 5: So he's one I would do anything for. And then
Speaker 5: you know, one thing John can't do is is control
Speaker 5: the running game and and.
Speaker 4: Throw the first base. So he was someone who always
Speaker 4: needed his personal pitcher.
Speaker 5: So when we were signing John as a free agent
Speaker 5: with the Cubs, which was a great feeling because when
Speaker 5: you're invest that much in a starting pitcher, having personal
Speaker 5: history with him, you know how we take care of himself,
Speaker 5: how he trains so seriously. He takes things you're betting
Speaker 5: on the health and the human being. It was great
Speaker 5: to sign John. We were out celebrating that night in
Speaker 5: Chicago after signing him, and he started asking again about
Speaker 5: our backup catcher situation, and we kind of already knew
Speaker 5: he was going to want David Ross, who handles him
Speaker 5: great and controls the running game so well, to come
Speaker 5: and be a backup and kind of be a bit
Speaker 5: of a personal catcher form.
Speaker 4: And we thought it was a good idea. I mean,
Speaker 4: we had a young team in Chicago at.
Speaker 5: The time and going into the twenty fifteen season. What
Speaker 5: was going to finish that team off were the right
Speaker 5: veteran leaders who understood the ingredients that create a winning
Speaker 5: environment and are thoughtful in creating that type of culture
Speaker 5: around the team, not letting any player get out on
Speaker 5: their own, fostering team dinner, cret having team dinners to
Speaker 5: foster connection, being holding players accountable on the front step
Speaker 5: of the dugout when they don't run out of the
Speaker 5: ground ball, and.
Speaker 4: That was ROSSI to a t.
Speaker 5: So Lester was saying, hey, we should sign Rossie. He said, yeah,
Speaker 5: of course we should. We're working on it, and then
Speaker 5: went out for a couple of adult beverages. And John's
Speaker 5: not the most patient individual in the world, so he
Speaker 5: got Ross on the phone.
Speaker 4: Next thing you know, he's negotiating that contract.
Speaker 5: I wasn't getting to get on the phone and go
Speaker 5: around the agent's back, but I was willing to give
Speaker 5: hand signals.
Speaker 4: About how far we'd go on the contract.
Speaker 5: It was easy to hold the line doing it that way,
Speaker 5: and so Lester ended up negotiating that that two year,
Speaker 5: five million dollars deal for David Ross. We all we
Speaker 5: were all having cocktails again a couple of years later
Speaker 5: celebrate in the World Series.
Speaker 4: So it worked out.
Speaker 1: Did he get did he get the suite? Did he
Speaker 1: get the sweet that he was asking fortune?
Speaker 5: Yeah, game in the suite on the road, which we
Speaker 5: were happy to give him because, you know, being a
Speaker 5: veteran he was he earned it. But also that's where
Speaker 5: players would assemble and hang out and talk baseball, and
Speaker 5: rather them be up in David Ross's sweet and be
Speaker 5: out somewhere else.
Speaker 1: That's a great story. We got about twenty five minutes
Speaker 1: left here. Twenty minutes left, so we're going to get
Speaker 1: some questions here. Speaking of relationships, this is obviously front
Speaker 1: and center. But the question comes from Adam. What do
Speaker 1: you hope MLB and the Players Association can agree on
Speaker 1: during the negotiations this winter?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I can't, I can't talk in too
Speaker 5: much detail about it, but I think agree is the
Speaker 5: key word there is that Obviously, the history of the
Speaker 5: history of labor relations in baseball, there's just been you know,
Speaker 5: too much of being on opposite sides of the table.
Speaker 5: And ultimately, you know, if we could find a way
Speaker 5: to get a deal done and become partners and in
Speaker 5: growing the game and growing the pie, that that's really,
Speaker 5: you know, ultimate, the most important thing in the long run,
Speaker 5: because you know, if you look at what what are
Speaker 5: the commonalities between people who own baseball teams and people
Speaker 5: who play professional baseballs the love of the game and
Speaker 5: and and there's so much interest that they have both
Speaker 5: you know, pecuniary interest as well as emotional interest in
Speaker 5: like the health of the game. Yet the sides, you know,
Speaker 5: the way things have evolved, the sides have obviously been,
Speaker 5: it's been a lack of trust and a bit of
Speaker 5: a toxic relationship. So whatever the outcome is and however
Speaker 5: we reach agreement, I hope that it is a deal
Speaker 5: that aligns everyone's interests in a real clear way, so
Speaker 5: that there's collaboration, synergy, and ultimately partnership in creating the
Speaker 5: healthiest possible sport, the widest, you know, the biggest possible tent,
Speaker 5: so that everyone who loves the game. And baseball means
Speaker 5: different things to different people.
Speaker 4: It's a it's a.
Speaker 5: Livelihood for for some, it's a hobby. For others, is
Speaker 5: playing catch with your dad. To others, it's going to games,
Speaker 5: it's playing the little league. It means so many different
Speaker 5: things to so many different people. Some people watch every game,
Speaker 5: some tune and every now and then. But that everyone
Speaker 5: who who who cares about the game and loves the
Speaker 5: game can see the best possible version of the sport
Speaker 5: and everyone sort of aligned to grow the game because
Speaker 5: we're we shouldn't be in competition with one another. We're
Speaker 5: really in competition with football, basketball, all the other sports
Speaker 5: out there, with the iPhone, with Netflix and streamers, everyone
Speaker 5: who algorithms, everyone who's fighting for your attention and what's
Speaker 5: really become like an attention economy and your time and
Speaker 5: your attention or your most valuable assets. Everyone's fighting for
Speaker 5: it and some of those, you know, some of the
Speaker 5: things that grab your attention aren't the most healthy and productive.
Speaker 5: And and i'd rather you spend your time ultimately watching
Speaker 5: baseball and when when the game is healthy, I think
Speaker 5: our country is healthy because there's so many lessons to
Speaker 5: be learned in this game.
Speaker 4: So I just hope we can agree and find a partnership.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like when people watch the game too. That's
Speaker 1: a very good answer to you.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Hey, you know you mentioned the word You mentioned the
Speaker 1: word trust. And I'm curious when it comes to building
Speaker 1: championship teams for the people that are on this and
Speaker 1: the parents out there, what are what are the commonalities
Speaker 1: in traits and qualities and where does trust rank on
Speaker 1: that when you're considering how you want to build a
Speaker 1: championship team clubhouse.
Speaker 5: Yeah, trust means a lot of different things. One way
Speaker 5: to answer that is like, as as as someone is
Speaker 5: putting a team together or putting an organization, trying to
Speaker 5: build a championship organization, there's nothing more important than than
Speaker 5: players that ultimately you can trust two.
Speaker 4: Do myriad things.
Speaker 5: One players that you can try us to put the
Speaker 5: team first over you know, put the team interest, the
Speaker 5: collective interests, organizational interests, sometimes above their own individual interests.
Speaker 5: Players that you can trust to care about their teammates.
Speaker 5: Players that you can trust to have good habits and
Speaker 5: take care of their bodies and get their sleep and
Speaker 5: eat right. And players they can trust to train hard.
Speaker 5: Players that you can trust to be honest with themselves
Speaker 5: and and and and to be open to feedback and
Speaker 5: open to partnership. Players that you can trust to have
Speaker 5: a growth mindset and constantly be striving to be better.
Speaker 5: So when you have those players you can trust to
Speaker 5: post and play and show up and when when things
Speaker 5: get difficult, not not find a way out, but take
Speaker 5: take responsibility and dig in deeper and and and find
Speaker 5: a way to be there for.
Speaker 4: Their teammates and for the team.
Speaker 5: So that kind of trust is hugely important, and it
Speaker 5: cuts both ways too. I learned this lesson from Craig Shipley,
Speaker 5: who was on we talked about the Padres. He was
Speaker 5: an infielder on those Padres teams in the late nineties
Speaker 5: and I learned the importance.
Speaker 4: Of of of.
Speaker 5: Complete honesty and candor and transparency with players in order
Speaker 5: to develop trust. And I was sitting there in the
Speaker 5: dugout before banning practice and Ship and I were talking
Speaker 5: about something and he was kind of explaining why a
Speaker 5: certain player.
Speaker 4: Was upset with management.
Speaker 5: I didn't get it, and he remember, he looked me
Speaker 5: right in the eye, almost like look right through me,
Speaker 5: and said, like THEO, don't you understand every player out there?
Speaker 4: And he pointed out on the field for batting practice.
Speaker 5: Every player out there has been lied to by management
Speaker 5: at some point in their career or feels like they've
Speaker 5: been lied to. And it just kind of shook me
Speaker 5: because I'd never I never thought about, you know, that sentiment,
Speaker 5: and he obviously was, he felt it and he meant it.
Speaker 5: And I said to myself right then and there, and
Speaker 5: ultimately I said to Ship, as if I have, if
Speaker 5: I'm ever lucky enough to be part of running an organization,
Speaker 5: I'm just going to make sure we absolutely tell the
Speaker 5: truth at all times to all players, even if even
Speaker 5: when it's inconvenient ors things they don't want to hear.
Speaker 5: It's just so important that you're honest with your your
Speaker 5: your feedback. You're honest in contract negotiations, You're honest with
Speaker 5: where they stand. You're honest about their development and and
Speaker 5: and and that's where individual player development plans came from.
Speaker 4: And making sure.
Speaker 5: You document the feedback and that there's buy in and
Speaker 5: and that type of honesty is what's what's essential to
Speaker 5: building trust that goes both ways and as mutual and
Speaker 5: if you if you have it go in both directions.
Speaker 4: If you have players that you can trust to do
Speaker 4: the right.
Speaker 5: Things that we just articulated, and you've got players kind
Speaker 5: of trusting their leadership both with their manager and uh,
Speaker 5: the GM and the ownership, you're you're gonna have a
Speaker 5: winning organization for a long time.
Speaker 3: Good Yeah, so good man, so good.
Speaker 2: And and THEO I guess since we kind of like
Speaker 2: move away from you know, getting to back to youth
Speaker 2: sports here, I guess, and Cooper has a good question
Speaker 2: here that I really like, But what are your thoughts
Speaker 2: on private equity? You know, this is a loaded question, right,
Speaker 2: and this is we're getting we're going down this road,
Speaker 2: I guess, And it's kind of a newer thing in
Speaker 2: the in the last couple of years, right where a
Speaker 2: lot of private equities built buying up club teams, right
Speaker 2: and getting large groups of club teams that they own. Uh,
Speaker 2: just in general. Cooper brought this up, and I think
Speaker 2: it's a good question. But do you think it's bad
Speaker 2: for the future of youth sports and what would you
Speaker 2: do to correct it?
Speaker 5: Yeah, So it's funny you asked that because I actually
Speaker 5: have a part time gig with Arctos Partners that does
Speaker 5: private equity, but only at the professional level. They buy
Speaker 5: minority interests in Major League Baseball teams and NFL teams
Speaker 5: and and HL teams, NBA teams, et cetera. And but
Speaker 5: since I'm in those circles, I've I've certainly come across,
Speaker 5: you know, private equities involvement in in youth sports, and
Speaker 5: I agree with it. Was a Cooper with his his
Speaker 5: concerns that it's it's it's can be a bit scary
Speaker 5: that obviously, you know, private equity gets involved in in
Speaker 5: in in order to maximize profit, and you know, the
Speaker 5: youth sports landscape has changed dramatically from when I was
Speaker 5: growing up.
Speaker 4: It's it's you know, it's it's.
Speaker 5: It's a lot more involved, it's a lot more expensive,
Speaker 5: there's sort of this massive fomo involved where it used
Speaker 5: to be pretty simple.
Speaker 4: You play in your house little league.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe you'd be lucky enough to find a coach
Speaker 5: that you believe in, and and and and and le
Speaker 5: know him takes some lessons, And now it's you know you,
Speaker 5: every time you pick up your phone, you feel like
Speaker 5: you're missing out on the next big thing. And if
Speaker 5: I'm not doing this, and mom and dad aren't paying
Speaker 5: for this, and I'm on this travel team, I'm missing out.
Speaker 5: And you know, some of that is well intentioned. There's
Speaker 5: a lot of people who want to help, but then
Speaker 5: there's also a lot of money to be made in
Speaker 5: youth sports or else you wouldn't see the type of
Speaker 5: capital running into it, and there would private equity, you wouldn't
Speaker 5: be involved. So I think this is a good reminder
Speaker 5: for parents. Obviously you don't have to sort of get
Speaker 5: involved in the understand what the cap table is, or
Speaker 5: get involved in the private equity component at all, but
Speaker 5: just ask yourself the people that you're potentially getting involved with,
Speaker 5: who are running your programs or your trainers, your coaches,
Speaker 5: your lessons, or like, what are they in it for?
Speaker 4: What are they in it for And I think I
Speaker 4: think we have good.
Speaker 5: Radars as parents about the people working with our kids,
Speaker 5: is like, are they in it for the right reason?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 5: Are they in it to make my kids better? Or
Speaker 5: they're trying to make a quick buck. And look, obviously
Speaker 5: everyone's got to make a living and it's part of it,
Speaker 5: and it's a competitive landscape out there. But I would
Speaker 5: just parents to kind of trust trust their instincts. On
Speaker 5: a micro level, be selective with who your kids are
Speaker 5: around and trying to grow in the game of baseball.
Speaker 5: And I think if you follow your instincts, you'll end
Speaker 5: up in a good place. On the macro level, Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's important that we not prioritize. You know, capitalism is
Speaker 5: a pretty powerful thing, but not everything should be optimized
Speaker 5: for profit. And use sports trolley very much in that category.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one this this question. I'm sure I know you
Speaker 1: get this one often. I do think that Mark's question
Speaker 1: is a little bit different because it doesn't ask you
Speaker 1: to pick whether the Red Sox or the Cubs sort
Speaker 1: of curse was your favorite. It more ass which one
Speaker 1: felt like a greater feat And uh, I think that
Speaker 1: seems like it's one that you could probably come up
Speaker 1: with an answer as opposed to saying they both great.
Speaker 1: We know that which was the great.
Speaker 5: Answer because it says which one felt like a greater
Speaker 5: feat and they wish was a greater feat. So I
Speaker 5: could be honest with the Cubs, one felt like a
Speaker 5: greater feat just because of where I was in my
Speaker 5: life at the time. So with the Red Sox, you know,
Speaker 5: I was I was thirty years old, I was single.
Speaker 4: We had you, you were around Rabbit.
Speaker 5: You know, we had like a tight knit front office,
Speaker 5: but we were all kind of working hard and playing hard.
Speaker 5: And everything happened so fast in two thousand and three
Speaker 5: and two thousand and four, the whole ride through the
Speaker 5: four postseason, falling down to the Yankees three games to nothing,
Speaker 5: then coming back and sweeping the World Series. It felt like,
Speaker 5: you know, like a wild night out with your friends.
Speaker 5: That it takes all these twisted turns and you know
Speaker 5: you're not even sure what's going on, and you don't
Speaker 5: even remember a lot of it. You know, look at
Speaker 5: looking back on it to these days, to this day,
Speaker 5: I see highlights, I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember that,
Speaker 5: because it was impossible to fully appreciate in the moment.
Speaker 5: I hadn't fully paid my dues yet I was still
Speaker 5: still so young in an experience by the time I
Speaker 5: got to Chicago and twenty sixteen out. At that point,
Speaker 5: I had two kids, had a wife, and I got
Speaker 5: I had the privilege of well, and I knew how
Speaker 5: hard it was. You know, we'd been through a five
Speaker 5: year plan rebuild with the Cubs. I had better perspective
Speaker 5: on the game and how lucky you have to be too,
Speaker 5: you know, to be fortunate to stay healthy and have
Speaker 5: a successful regular season and win a few series in
Speaker 5: the postseason, even get a chance, you know, to compete
Speaker 5: on the biggest stage in the Fall Classic. And I
Speaker 5: had the privilege of having my then eight year old
Speaker 5: son with me for those World Series games. And you know,
Speaker 5: if you go back and look at the footage of
Speaker 5: Game seven, you can kind of see him there sitting
Speaker 5: right next to me. And I got to watch the
Speaker 5: game not through the cynical eyes of a veteran general
Speaker 5: manager at that point, but through the innocent eyes of
Speaker 5: an eight year old kid who, you know, his favorite
Speaker 5: team had a chance to win the World Series. So
Speaker 5: I had greater appreciation for how fortunate I was and
Speaker 5: how how big a feat that was, and what that
Speaker 5: championship would mean to so many people, having experienced the
Speaker 5: Red Sox one and knowing that if I was really fortunate,
Speaker 5: I could again play a small part in bringing so
Speaker 5: much joy to so many people in a way that
Speaker 5: really mattered, that connected generations, and that was intimate for families,
Speaker 5: and that just meant so much and resonated so Yeah,
Speaker 5: that one, in the moment, absolutely felt more just because
Speaker 5: I was able to, you know, see it, see the
Speaker 5: game through through through more of your eyes, and experience
Speaker 5: it through the innocent eyes of my eight year old
Speaker 5: son who's now eighteen and about to go off to college.
Speaker 1: But that experience, yeah, congratulations on that. A little less
Speaker 1: interested at eighteen years old than at eight years old,
Speaker 1: but well.
Speaker 3: Shit, yeah, great stuff, great stuff to you.
Speaker 2: And I think when you you just kind of brought
Speaker 2: something up that that I like to do in a
Speaker 2: I like to venture out and just watch little, random,
Speaker 2: littleague games of driving by where I just will pull
Speaker 2: over and just stop.
Speaker 5: It's such good medicine. I did that the other day.
Speaker 5: I was I was back in Boston and I went
Speaker 5: out for a run. On my way back. I was
Speaker 5: sucking win to begin with. But on the way back,
Speaker 5: I passed Mile literally Field and there was a literal
Speaker 5: league game going on.
Speaker 4: So I just I just sat and watched a couple
Speaker 4: of innings.
Speaker 5: And man, you just you just leave there, you leave,
Speaker 5: you leave a couple of innings, a little game, but
Speaker 5: such great appreciation for getting to work in baseball, for
Speaker 5: everyone who's involved in the game at every single level,
Speaker 5: and what it means to you. And it just brings
Speaker 5: you back to, you know, to your time starting.
Speaker 4: Out in the game. So it is good.
Speaker 5: It is a great medicine for a tough loss or
Speaker 5: a tough season to go do that.
Speaker 3: I agree it fills you up.
Speaker 1: But I can tell you having done all three of
Speaker 1: those World Series, Major League, college and Little league literally
Speaker 1: blows them all away. I'm sorry, it just it blows
Speaker 1: them all away. For literally every reason that you've sort
Speaker 1: of discussed tonight before we let you go. We do
Speaker 1: this thing called the kitchen sink. I know you can
Speaker 1: appreciate that from a pitching perspective. There's just four quick
Speaker 1: questions that really don't have much to do with baseball
Speaker 1: that kind of shed some more light onto who THEO
Speaker 1: Webstein is. I guess the first one I'd ask, and
Speaker 1: I think we all have this particular person feel best
Speaker 1: athlete that you remember growing up with, either being a
Speaker 1: teammate or competing against. That name is always at the
Speaker 1: top of your head.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll go with Eric White, who is actually not
Speaker 5: not baseball, but it was. It was soccer, and he
Speaker 5: was the one kid who was just sort of standard
Speaker 5: deviations above everybody else and could do things with his
Speaker 5: left foot that we couldn't dream of doing with our
Speaker 5: right and seemed like ungodly.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: Then you get at older and maybe it wasn't that special.
Speaker 5: You just weren't very good, so everyone seemed like he
Speaker 5: was incredible.
Speaker 4: But that's the one. And then I'll give you a
Speaker 4: baseball one.
Speaker 5: David Piken, who hopefully he watches this still living in
Speaker 5: the Boston area. But David Pike, and it went by.
Speaker 5: Spike was the kid who hit puberty a couple of
Speaker 5: years before.
Speaker 4: The rest of us. So okay, big strong and harryt.
Speaker 5: And was hitting hitting tanks that just seemed like they
Speaker 5: never came down, and we were all scared to pitch
Speaker 5: to them.
Speaker 4: So it was good. Good to have Spike on your
Speaker 4: side and not have to face someone someone else.
Speaker 1: I went to UH. I went to school at Nieda, Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: One of my classmates was at that name Sonny Pandia,
Speaker 1: who became Snita Williams, who went up in a rocket.
Speaker 1: And I was just with some guys today from Electric Boat.
Speaker 1: They built submarines for you. If you could get into one.
Speaker 1: Are you getting in a rocket or a submarine?
Speaker 4: I'd probably get in a rocket, yeah, I just I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't like being I guess they're both kind.
Speaker 5: Of confining, but something else confined and underwater. And after
Speaker 5: living reading about that was a deep water horizons, as
Speaker 5: I was called, I think I want no part of.
Speaker 4: Professional or especially amateur ones.
Speaker 1: I know you have a great loaf of music. If
Speaker 1: you could go back in time and sit with some musician,
Speaker 1: who would it be.
Speaker 5: I'll give you two answers, like maybe maybe Jimmy Hendrix
Speaker 5: right after he went to London was kind of bursting
Speaker 5: on the scene.
Speaker 4: That'd be pretty fun. And then I'd like.
Speaker 5: To hang out with the Stones at Melcote in the
Speaker 5: summer of seventy one. It seems seems like that would
Speaker 5: be that would be a pretty good time, make an
Speaker 5: exile on Main Street.
Speaker 4: That'd be fun to hang awesome.
Speaker 1: And then lastly, is there is there a Is there
Speaker 1: a dream job that you still would like to pursue
Speaker 1: and perhaps land in any facet of life.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think I've kind of got the dream
Speaker 5: job of you know, the one that you have to
Speaker 5: appreciate the most is being dad, you know, and that's
Speaker 5: the one that you can't go back and do it again.
Speaker 4: You can't sign up for another go around. So kind
Speaker 4: of kind of in the dream job now.
Speaker 5: And then I'm so lucky that I get to get
Speaker 5: to stay in sports with a couple of these side
Speaker 5: gigs I have, and even a connection to baseball with
Speaker 5: the Red Sox and some of the work I was
Speaker 5: lucky enough to do it Major League Baseballs and things
Speaker 5: like this, So I know I got a pretty good
Speaker 5: balance going on right now.
Speaker 4: I couldn't. I've been real lucky, so I couldn't ask
Speaker 4: for anything more than I want to have.
Speaker 1: I'll paraphrase Ja Man's question where he says, do you
Speaker 1: what do you think about the state of the Red Sox?
Speaker 1: Where are you right now with regards to the optimism?
Speaker 1: Can things turn around for them. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get into the specifics of the question about Bregman and
Speaker 1: Breslo and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's.
Speaker 1: Appropriate for this forum. But just the Red Sox, you know,
Speaker 1: the passion the fan base has.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've done a really good job of staying out
Speaker 5: of the media the conversation around the team. That's one
Speaker 5: of the cool things about just get being an advisors.
Speaker 5: I can kind of get my opinion and I don't
Speaker 5: have to be part of the public conversation. But I'll
Speaker 5: say I was actually the first couple of minutes I
Speaker 5: was watching the Red Sox to clean up with a
Speaker 5: look like a get three to one win. I'll say
Speaker 5: the pitching and defense have been fantastic and actually obviously
Speaker 5: everyone and that's.
Speaker 4: Not an easy feat.
Speaker 5: Right to have that foundation now, you know, having to
Speaker 5: figure out the offense and fix it mid stream is important,
Speaker 5: but yeah, there's something to build around with the pitching
Speaker 5: and defense, and I know Bras and the guys are
Speaker 5: hard at work on fixing the offense.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, man, I know we can't thank you enough.
Speaker 1: You're a good friend, and I appreciate the time you
Speaker 1: give here. I certainly uh want to wish you and uh,
Speaker 1: justin I speak for him as well. You know, sympathies
Speaker 1: to your daddy. Year. This is a significant date in
Speaker 1: your life. I know how important Leslie was to you,
Speaker 1: so uh and I know this in a matter of
Speaker 1: time and it won't be a short time. But there's
Speaker 1: so much more to get to with somebody like you.
Speaker 1: We'd love to we'd love to have a reservation for
Speaker 1: you down the road again to come back all of us.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you got it. Well, congrats on on this project.
Speaker 5: It's it's filling in important void in the industry. And
Speaker 5: hope a lot of people tune in and I'll be
Speaker 5: tuning in in the future to get you know, to
Speaker 5: get great advice on the right way to develop young
Speaker 5: young baseball players. And as I said, you know, when
Speaker 5: when baseball is healthy, our country is healthy.
Speaker 4: So you guys are doing the service. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Thanks here, you're good man. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being with us.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 4: I love the sound effects.
Speaker 1: He deserves a standing ovation for a long time. But again,
Speaker 1: my goodness, there were so many golden nuggets that came
Speaker 1: out there and so many more things. He's just again
Speaker 1: I think we started this whole show talking about how
Speaker 1: authentic and well thought out he is in his answers,
Speaker 1: and he proved it over the course of an hour
Speaker 1: here with our with our teammates on dirt and the dugout.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's just so much to talk about
Speaker 2: with him, right and and uh, the thought and thought
Speaker 2: provoking sort of conversation that you can get when you
Speaker 2: talk to THEO is something that I really looked forward
Speaker 2: to going into this and I enjoyed every minute of it, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many things you can talk to
Speaker 2: him about, just genuinely a good human which when you
Speaker 2: talk to people around him that worked with him, and
Speaker 2: the way he went about his business.
Speaker 3: He cares about people.
Speaker 2: And I was going to ask him about this, but
Speaker 2: I talked to someone who had worked for him one
Speaker 2: time and worked with him, i should say, in one
Speaker 2: of the organizations, and they were talking about how THEO
Speaker 2: would go and talk to someone in the concessions area
Speaker 2: who was working and he would have conversations with them,
Speaker 2: and he would go talk to the janitor and he'd
Speaker 2: go and he would treat everybody very well. And his
Speaker 2: goal was to understand an organizational level, all of the people.
Speaker 2: He wanted to know all of them, and that was
Speaker 2: That's something that I've taken personally. I read that story
Speaker 2: a while ago, and in the things that I've led
Speaker 2: in my career, I've really taken that and really tried
Speaker 2: to implement that into my life and just pay attention
Speaker 2: to people and talk with them and get to know them.
Speaker 2: And just so many great things here, Abby, so many
Speaker 2: life lessons, right, I mean, we could go on and on,
Speaker 2: but what a great conversation, Bud.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think lastly for me, you know, he
Speaker 1: said so many important, insightful things. But I do think
Speaker 1: that you know, his relationship with his parents, his father,
Speaker 1: and the real emphasis that he put on the unconditional
Speaker 1: love and support. I mean, how many times have we
Speaker 1: been at games where we've seen parents react to their
Speaker 1: child struggling, failing, making a mistake in a way that
Speaker 1: doesn't engender any feelings of support or love. And that
Speaker 1: was that was That's probably what will resonate most with me,
Speaker 1: is when he came off the field, the dad always
Speaker 1: had positive comment for him, even after maybe he had
Speaker 1: he had done something in the in the field that
Speaker 1: would lead to the other team getting a base runner
Speaker 1: or scoring a run. I think that's as valuable a
Speaker 1: lesson from tonight in a million valuable lessons that we
Speaker 1: can take. I really enjoyed that part of what he said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I mean just just all of that, right,
Speaker 2: the lessons there, and just the conversation around youth sports, right,
Speaker 2: and around baseball and what it's supposed to be and
Speaker 2: hearing someone who led two organizations to World Series championships
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, the importance of being a multi
Speaker 2: sport athlete, or the importance of just knowing where you're
Speaker 2: at and trying to get better with where you're at
Speaker 2: and not focusing too much on anything specifically so you
Speaker 2: don't distract yourself, you know, from some of the other things, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just it's it's unbelievable advice, and that's
Speaker 2: what we're all about on these man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a good man and a reminder. Next week,
Speaker 1: we will be on on the twenty six Next week,
Speaker 1: of course, Memorial Day, So we'll be on Tuesday evening
Speaker 1: at nine o'clock Eastern time, eight o'clock Central time, and
Speaker 1: we'll have on one of the great college coaches out
Speaker 1: there today his name is Jim Schlasnagel. He took a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of teams from TCU to Omaha and the
Speaker 1: College World Series and now he's the headman at Texas.
Speaker 1: So we'll get into scouting, We'll get into recruiting. We'll
Speaker 1: get into the regionals and super Regionals. That's all coming
Speaker 1: up next week. On Dirt from the Dugout is Jim
Speaker 1: Schlasnagel will join us. Justin. Terrific job man three for
Speaker 1: three so far. In a reminder to everybody out there,
Speaker 1: join our growing community today. Become a teammate on Dirt
Speaker 1: from the Dugout. You get that live access. We appreciate
Speaker 1: the questions Tonight Baseball Recruiting Confidential, which is the live
Speaker 1: access to the best college coaches. You can learn about
Speaker 1: the recruiting process. No one knows the recruiting process better
Speaker 1: than Justin. You could ask Justin to me questions anytime.
Speaker 1: The clubhouse conversations where you get to talk with other
Speaker 1: baseball parents on their journey and learn from the communities.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you joining us on the parent Dougleat.
Speaker 1: We'll see you again again next Tuesday.
Speaker 3: Justin.
Speaker 1: Take care everybody