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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I hope you had an

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Speaker 2: amazing weekend. It is Sunday, June eighth, and we have

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Speaker 2: a stacked night of headlines. We're talking about the retrial

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Speaker 2: of Karen Reid. As you guys may know, this could

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Speaker 2: potentially be the very last week of testimony. Plus victim

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Speaker 2: two in the P Diddy trial took the stand and

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Speaker 2: again this trial kind of rages on. This week, we're

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Speaker 2: doing a deep dive and also doing an extra long

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Speaker 2: look at the Long Island serial Killer. This is a

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Speaker 2: case we've talked about a little bit throughout the days

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Speaker 2: last week, but now we're doing an extra deep dive

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Speaker 2: with Corey Abraham, who's the head of Unscripted at Verst.

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Speaker 3: She is coming here because she developed to the show.

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Speaker 2: The Long Island Serial Killer is based on, called The

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Speaker 2: Gilgo Beach Killer.

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Speaker 3: The House of Secrets.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Lei Decker and I head of Kat studios

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Speaker 2: and I get to do that along with Courtney Armstrong

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Speaker 2: and Body move in now listen. We also want you

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Speaker 2: to make sure you join the conversation. So call us

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Speaker 2: anytime at eight eight eight three to one Crime, or

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Speaker 2: you could always hit us up on our socials at

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight on Facebook or at True Crime Tonight's

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Speaker 2: Show on TikTok or Instagram.

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Speaker 3: So, Body, Karen Reid, where should we begin?

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Speaker 4: Oh, day twenty eight? Can you believe Friday wrapped up?

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Speaker 3: Unbelievable?

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Speaker 4: It's been a long twenty eight days, right, and I

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Speaker 4: mean especially for Karen Reid. I mean, my goodness, but yeah,

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Speaker 4: Friday wrapped up day twenty eight in the retrial of

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Speaker 4: Karen Reid with really some compelling testimony. Reed told reporters

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Speaker 4: on Wednesday after court that she expects her defense team

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Speaker 4: to rest their case next week. So, I mean we

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Speaker 4: could probably have something by like Tuesday or Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: That's incredible. It seems like this trial has been going

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Speaker 2: on forever, I know, twenty eight days, but in the

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Speaker 2: big scheme of that, think about it.

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Speaker 3: This is the second trial. This is her great trial, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, how much time has been dedicated to this at

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Speaker 2: this point, do you have a feeling on it?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, you and I disagree a little bit

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Speaker 4: on this Casett, but you know, honestly, this week's testimony

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Speaker 4: was pretty compelling. You know, we had a bunch of

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Speaker 4: expert witnesses, and I think probably the most compelling expert

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Speaker 4: was the person who recreated the accident. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: listen the chatter on social media. If you're a free

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Speaker 4: Karen Reid person, the chatter is, oh my gosh, this

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Speaker 4: recreation absolutely is the nail in the coffin for the state.

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Speaker 4: Karen Reid is innocent, one hundred percent, proves that it

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Speaker 4: couldn't have happened with her suv right. But if you're

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Speaker 4: a Karen Reid as guilty person, you're like, the cross

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Speaker 4: of this expert was so good. The state did a

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Speaker 4: great job. This is the nail in the coffin. Karen

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Speaker 4: Read is guilty.

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Speaker 3: Wow. And I mean it's divided.

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Speaker 5: It depends on which side you are, because it does.

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Speaker 5: It's it's who's last in your ear?

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Speaker 3: Could be the right? It does.

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Speaker 4: And you know, and I have to admit, you know,

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Speaker 4: as somebody who kind of thinks Karen Reid is technically guilty.

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Speaker 4: I do think that there is going to be reasonable

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Speaker 4: doubt with the jury.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how this point could there not be reasonable

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Speaker 2: doubt at the bare minimum?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 2: So, you know, as we've said many times before, guilty

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Speaker 2: or innocent is really not what we're discussing here, right Like,

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Speaker 2: she has to be proven guilty at this point, and

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Speaker 2: you know, have they done a good enough job or

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Speaker 2: at least been able to raise enough suspicion in the

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Speaker 2: opposite direction. I mean, the reality is I think we

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Speaker 2: all would agree. John O'Keefe, you know, he was a

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Speaker 2: victim here, and you know I was. I was reading

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Speaker 2: a story that I had kind of forgotten. I don't

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Speaker 2: think we talk about it enough that he actually took

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Speaker 2: in his niece and his nephew, did his you know sister,

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Speaker 2: she died very tragically of brain cancer. Then soon thereafter

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Speaker 2: dad dies. So these you know, young kids at the

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Speaker 2: time of their parents' death were I think three and

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Speaker 2: six or so, and you know he took them in

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Speaker 2: and was raising them as his own. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: his mom, his family, they've all been through unimaginable loss

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Speaker 2: and it's gotten so heated. Did she didn't she guilty?

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Speaker 2: Because the trial. Look is compelling, it is, but we

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Speaker 2: sometimes lose sight of this family who's still grieving, and

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Speaker 2: you know, no matter how you slice it, there's no

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Speaker 2: happy ending for them.

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Speaker 4: Right And so just as a reminder for people who

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Speaker 4: don't know what the heck we're talking about, because I'm

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Speaker 4: sure there's going to be somebody out there that's like

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Speaker 4: Karen Reid, what the heck? Karen Reid is accused of

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Speaker 4: hitting her boyfriend. He was a Boston police officer, his

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Speaker 4: name is John o'keef with her SUV after a night

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Speaker 4: of like partying with all their friends. Okay, there he

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Speaker 4: was found in the front yard of this home and

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Speaker 4: I'll get into that in a second. And he had

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Speaker 4: lacerations on his arm. And the accusation is that Karen

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Speaker 4: Reid hit him and drove away. She's being charged with

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Speaker 4: murder and fleeing the sea scene of the crime. I

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Speaker 4: think basically what it is her defense claims, though this

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Speaker 4: is where it gets kind of harry. Her defense claims

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Speaker 4: that she's being framed as a cover up, that there

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Speaker 4: was some kind of altercation inside the home with his

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Speaker 4: police friend buddies, and they put him basically on the

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Speaker 4: front lawn to kind of make it look like Karen.

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Speaker 3: Reid hit him, so that essentially framed him exactly.

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Speaker 4: So the cops that are doing the investigation are basically

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Speaker 4: the same cops that are buddies with the people in

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Speaker 4: the house, right. So this week there was, like I said,

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Speaker 4: pretty explosive testimony. Former Canton police officer Kelly Deaver revealed

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Speaker 4: that she had previously told the FBI investigators about seeing

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Speaker 4: atf agent Brian Higgins and the Canton Police officer Chief

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Speaker 4: Kenneth Berkowitz near reads suv for an extended period of time, suggesting,

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Speaker 4: you know, potential tampering, you know, possibly like breaking that

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Speaker 4: tail light, any number of things. But on the stand,

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Speaker 4: she retracted that statement, calling it a distorted memory, and

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Speaker 4: claimed that aggressive pressure from the defense attorneys influenced her

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Speaker 4: prior comments.

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Speaker 5: You know, this is honestly, people talk about the expert testimony.

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Speaker 5: Kelly Dever's testimony was probably what most securely put me

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Speaker 5: into thinking that Karen Reid has in fact, in fact

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Speaker 5: been framed, because in between those two totally different things

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Speaker 5: that she said, between the trials, she was confirmed she

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Speaker 5: had a conversation with the Boston Police Commissioner Michael Cox

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Speaker 5: about the case. We have no knowledge of what was

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Speaker 5: said in there, and she maintains that it was only

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Speaker 5: that she quote, you know, tell the truth about the case.

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Speaker 5: It reads fishy to me.

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Speaker 2: Well, her testimony was right out of law and order.

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Speaker 2: She was like, ah, you know, she had no memory

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Speaker 2: of anything. And it felt as though, you know, look,

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Speaker 2: this is an area snitches get stitches. You know, there

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Speaker 2: is sort of a code and stay out of it

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Speaker 2: is kind of the vibe. And I feel for everybody

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Speaker 2: involved in this one.

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Speaker 3: It's a mess.

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Speaker 5: It is so body what other testimony. I feel like

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Speaker 5: there's even more that happened there is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot more to happen.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Marie Russell, she's like a dog bite expert, and

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Speaker 4: she testified that the marks on John O'Keeffe's arm were

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Speaker 4: consistent with dog scratches, supporting the defensive theory that O'Keefe

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Speaker 4: was attacked inside that house by the dog. There was

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Speaker 4: some you know, there's some kind of altercation and during

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Speaker 4: this altercation, the dog got riled up and attacked John

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Speaker 4: O'Keeffe and those are why he has those like marks

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Speaker 4: on his arm. This testimony obviously challenges the prosecution's claim

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Speaker 4: that John O'Keeffe was struck by Karen Reid with the suv.

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Speaker 2: Can I theorize on something again like not based on anything,

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Speaker 2: but what if all things are true here? What if

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Speaker 2: she he rolled into the house for this after party.

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Speaker 2: They'd all clearly been drinking too much. Karen Reid, although

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Speaker 2: she shouldn't have been driving, continues to peel out and

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Speaker 2: maybe John O'Keeffe while in this said house. You know,

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Speaker 2: they were all pretty drunk. You know, you see that

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Speaker 2: surveillance footage they were like whether they were squaring off

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Speaker 2: as men and buddies or you know, goofing around either

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Speaker 2: way that could somehow lead to a hustle, or whether

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Speaker 2: it's in good fun or otherwise he slips, the dog

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Speaker 2: gets involved.

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Speaker 3: Now there scratches involved and.

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Speaker 2: In a very oh my goodness moment, not like how

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Speaker 2: it's being described as some sort of you know, fight

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Speaker 2: broke out amongst friends and it's you know, maybe there

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Speaker 2: is something accidental to this and they're therefore was a

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Speaker 2: cover up, or maybe they realized that Karen did hit

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Speaker 2: their buddy and you know again their fellow police officer,

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Speaker 2: and wanted to make sure she really got what she

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Speaker 2: had come in and both things are true. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 2: they added to the evidence to make sure it sealed

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Speaker 2: the deal.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, either way, it's a conspiracy if that's

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Speaker 4: exactly which were illegal, And I just feel like that's

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Speaker 4: such a disservice to the victim, right, And I do

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Speaker 4: find it hard to believe that police officers would do

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Speaker 4: that to a fellow police officer, like.

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Speaker 3: Cover up, Yeah, unless they're involved. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 3: if a bunch of them, ye are I'm torn.

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Speaker 5: And also this department has had kind of similar incidents

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Speaker 5: of cover up. I know we're going to get into

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Speaker 5: that much more next week, but keep that in the

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Speaker 5: back of your brains. This is not right sort of

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Speaker 5: the first time and again unique to this place.

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Speaker 2: This is not a you know, an assassination on law

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Speaker 2: enforcement in a way. It's just you know, as it's

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Speaker 2: coming up real time, it's just at least worthy unpack.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So then Jonathan diamandis I hope I'm saying that right.

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Speaker 4: He is a friend of the former lead UH investigator Proctor.

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Speaker 4: Member Proctor from the original trial that did costs, right,

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Speaker 4: so he testified that he was in those text messages

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Speaker 4: when Proctor called read like a whack job and the

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Speaker 4: sea word and said, yeah, she's a babe. We'd fall

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Speaker 4: river accident, you know, no ass but zero chance she's skating.

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Speaker 3: She's fed.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 4: He was, he was in those text messages, so he

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Speaker 4: substantiated that for the defense. So that was pretty damning

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Speaker 4: in my opinion for the state. Brian Lucky testified as well. Okay,

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Speaker 4: now he is the snowplow driver and if you remember,

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Speaker 4: there was it was like a blizzard that night, right,

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Speaker 4: so the snowplow was out after the alleged incident occurred.

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Speaker 4: So the theory is is that if John O'Keeffe was

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Speaker 4: hit by Karen Reid on the with the suv, he

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Speaker 4: would have been laying, you know, in the front yard

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Speaker 4: the whole time. While the snowplow driver testified he drove

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Speaker 4: by the house three times and never saw John O'Keeffe

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Speaker 4: on the front yard. However, listen, it was snowing. I

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Speaker 4: mean it was raining down snow like it was crazy snow.

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Speaker 4: So is it possible that you just you know, you're

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Speaker 4: not looking well, obviously you're looking a job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's is he.

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Speaker 4: Looking on a front yard, for but a mound of

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Speaker 4: snow for sure. Like that I think is the part

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Speaker 4: of the job.

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Speaker 2: You know, especially in a blizzard, you have to keep

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Speaker 2: an eye out for cans and garbage things and pets,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you know, he was accustomed to seeing

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Speaker 2: that particular house a certain way. In fact, he had

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Speaker 2: a you know, I think he went to school with

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Speaker 2: one of them. Like, he knew that house fairly well,

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Speaker 2: and therefore it was something that he noted because yeah,

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Speaker 2: remember those big lights that those trucks have. Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: point is to look for something. But yeah, again it's

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Speaker 2: a person's memory versus the science of it.

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Speaker 3: It's so I guess that's why this case has us

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Speaker 3: all riled up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it really does. And I just I do have

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Speaker 5: to say that the snowplow driver's testimony, he had a

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Speaker 5: log of each of the times he did go by it,

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Speaker 5: and Stephanie, to your point, he did know the house.

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Speaker 5: So that also really has kept me on I guess

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Speaker 5: team Karen Reid, which is kind of hard to imagine.

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Speaker 5: I'm saying, but you are listening to true crime tonight,

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Speaker 5: and we're going to continue to follow this when we

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Speaker 5: get back. We're going to have the latest testimony in

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Speaker 5: the trial against Sean Diddy Combs. A Jane Doe reveals

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Speaker 5: shocking details of her former relationship with the music mogul. Later,

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Speaker 5: we have two guests to talk about the alleged Long

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Speaker 5: Island serial killer, Rex Huerman. We've got that and more

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Speaker 5: on True Crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: So we've been talking about Karen Reid. This case obviously

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Speaker 2: will be heating up quite a bit. We're going to

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Speaker 2: get back to Karen a little bit later in the

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Speaker 2: show because Diddy, we have to get to Diddy. Diddy

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Speaker 2: very very explosive week yet again. You know, victim number

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Speaker 2: two took the stand and Courtney, I know you were

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Speaker 2: following that closely.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, We're in week four of the trial against Shawan

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Speaker 5: Diddy Combs, and on Friday they wrapped up with as

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Speaker 5: you mentioned, Stephanie alleged victim going by Jane. She is

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Speaker 5: still on the stand and her testimony is expected to

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Speaker 5: continue tomorrow to catch anyone up who I guess at

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Speaker 5: this point has been kind of living under a rock

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Speaker 5: with the Diddy, who's been everywhere. Prosecutors alleged that for

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Speaker 5: twenty years from two thousand and four to twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: four Combs operated a criminal enterprise. This involved really hideous

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Speaker 5: acts kidnapping, arson, bribery, sex trafficking, and that he used

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Speaker 5: his influence in the music industry to lure people in

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Speaker 5: and also ps his crazy wealth to help control people.

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Speaker 5: I happen to notice in USA today that his wealth

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Speaker 5: is now at four hundred million, a drop from seven

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Speaker 5: hundred and forty million in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 5: Anyway, Yeah, that just struck me as a big job.

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Speaker 3: But that's a pretty big drop.

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Speaker 5: It's a pretty big drop. I think a lot of

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Speaker 5: what's been going on maybe has impacted that. But anyway,

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Speaker 5: he's a powerful and wealthy man. And according to Jane,

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Speaker 5: whose testimony seems to be horrifying, he really is controlling

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Speaker 5: in every capacity.

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Speaker 3: Monster. He's a monster.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, if this is all true, even one of

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Speaker 4: the items are true, he's a monster.

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Speaker 2: And it corroborates, you know this, Jane, Joe is saying

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Speaker 2: these stories that she has to recount in front of people,

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Speaker 2: you know, and these are very private moments. She was

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Speaker 2: a single mom kind of met this fancy mogul, you know,

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Speaker 2: can you imagine, And it seemed very romantic, and it

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Speaker 2: seemed as though she really was falling for him in

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Speaker 2: a very meaningful way and it seemed mutual, and little

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Speaker 2: by little he starts adding to the equation. Right, let's

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Speaker 2: now add more.

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Speaker 3: Pushing the boundaries. That's the boundaries, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And Stephanie York exactly right on the little by

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Speaker 5: little specifically because it was it was dating, it was

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Speaker 5: private because Colmes was seeing other women. She knew this.

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Speaker 5: And then several months in he asked her do you

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Speaker 5: participate in a freak off? And then it became as

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Speaker 5: the relationship went on that it was stretches of more

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Speaker 5: and more of these freakofs and said that she felt

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Speaker 5: charmed into doing it. Did He's larger than life. He

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Speaker 5: made her feel so special and he was also you know,

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Speaker 5: supplementing her life and paying her bills, and she was

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Speaker 5: making sure the single mother had child care at all

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Speaker 5: times on standby so she could participate in these freak

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Speaker 5: offs at.

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Speaker 3: His behest, and it seems like this was his thing.

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Speaker 2: Like again, this man was running many companies, He had

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Speaker 2: a lot going on to be able to have these

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Speaker 2: sexual encounters for dats on Eddy multiple times a week,

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Speaker 2: and this was you know, several people's full time jobs

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Speaker 2: at some point, which to that point, just to jump

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Speaker 2: around on one thing that she said that I thought

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Speaker 2: was so compelling, is this entrance of KK. We've heard

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Speaker 2: this name for the very first time, really being entered

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Speaker 2: as we should keep a lookout for this Christina character.

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Speaker 2: She goes by KK and is alleged Ditty's big chief

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Speaker 2: of chief of staff essentially, and this is the person

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Speaker 2: who would kind of coordinate things and make sure he

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Speaker 2: had what he needed, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: That seems like that's really feeding this Rico piece. And

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to hear more of that this week.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. That'll be after, you know,

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Speaker 5: Jane finishes up her testimony. But what we've heard so far,

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Speaker 5: really you'd have to have a piece of marble for

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Speaker 5: your heart not to feel for this woman, you know.

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Speaker 5: She During the trial, the prosecution played videos of a

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Speaker 5: freak off and in it, Jane was asking a mail escort,

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Speaker 5: excuse me to wear a condom? Did he says no?

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Speaker 5: And in another video of the freak offs, she looked

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Speaker 5: Jane was very uncomfortable and was crying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah girl, and having to witness that with all of

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Speaker 2: these people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just I mean, she's very brave, right, She's

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Speaker 4: very brave. We have a talkback right now, Like right now,

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Speaker 4: I have a talk back and it's about Diddy. So

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Speaker 4: it's like perfect timing. Remember, just hit the little microphone

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Speaker 4: on any of our episodes and it will record a

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Speaker 4: message and we'll get it and we'll play it live

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Speaker 4: here on the show.

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Speaker 3: Let's hear it.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 8: My name is Page from Hoboken, New Jersey, and my

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Speaker 8: question is what do you make of Jane's testimony from Friday.

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Speaker 8: The fact that she had to sit through the prosecution

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Speaker 8: playing videos of her during the Freakoffs sounds so horrifying,

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Speaker 8: and she looks so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: We're just talking about that. That's a great question, Thank you, Paige.

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Speaker 5: I have to say I think it was honestly a

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Speaker 5: very good thing, because these freak offs have become so

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Speaker 5: sensationalized as to be almost abstract and as harrowing as

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Speaker 5: it was for this woman Jane to sit through them,

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Speaker 5: the jury has to know this is the same human being,

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Speaker 5: a human being sitting before.

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Speaker 3: You, So it humanizes it, right, That's right? Yeah, still

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Speaker 3: still so intense though.

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Speaker 2: I mean again, it's so difficult to get up there

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Speaker 2: and probably have to rely, you know, relive some of this,

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Speaker 2: recount it knowing people are going to hear it. You're

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Speaker 2: sitting in front of a juror in like a full courthouse,

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Speaker 2: and now they're playing the videos.

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Speaker 4: Brutal it does really humanize, course course humanized because like

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Speaker 4: if you're just talking about the freak ops, it doesn't

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Speaker 4: really you can't really picture it, right, sure, but then

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Speaker 4: you have a video and the one of the victims

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Speaker 4: on the stand probably pretty emotional. I mean I would be,

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Speaker 4: it'd be like, it really does humanize it, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's probably a bad look for the defense.

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Speaker 2: Where is victim number three? Is that just we're just

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Speaker 2: done with that. That just isn't going to happen anymore. Well,

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Speaker 2: but there is more, you know, there's more court to

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Speaker 2: com so.

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Speaker 3: No, that's much more.

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Speaker 2: But there was allegedly somebody who was you know, straight

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Speaker 2: up missing. You know, they had this third victim that

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Speaker 2: was going to come forward and that person was unresponsive

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't appear as going to testify, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I guess this week again we're going to see more.

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Speaker 3: Well, what's your opinion. Are we going to see more

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Speaker 3: of the.

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Speaker 2: Same of more victims, or are we going to see

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Speaker 2: more people in Diddy's inner circle?

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Speaker 3: And where are the celebrities?

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Speaker 2: You know, we've heard so much about these big names

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Speaker 2: that we're going to be associated with this trial. Was

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Speaker 2: that just pretend to get attention or is that still

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Speaker 2: something that's around the corner or are.

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Speaker 3: They going to be like witnesses for the defense? Right?

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Speaker 3: Oh that is great.

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Speaker 4: I mean I can't imagine listen, like Jake, like, I

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Speaker 4: mean just stroying a name like jay Can you imagine

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Speaker 4: like jay Z testifying for Didy.

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Speaker 3: I can't as Kusher just.

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Speaker 4: Because Michael Myers, Like what I just I can't imagine

390
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Speaker 4: any of them being like, oh yeah, I'll testify for you,

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Speaker 4: like I just as a character witness or something.

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Speaker 3: I just can't imagine it.

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Speaker 2: I would have to imagine the level of lawyers that

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Speaker 2: are at play behind the scenes to make sure names

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Speaker 2: do not get mentioned and people are not dragged into this,

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Speaker 2: you know, because the illusion has always been that allegedly

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Speaker 2: there are people on video, and you know, there's tapes

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Speaker 2: of well known celebrities, perhaps you know, performing in some

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Speaker 2: of these how much money?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean? How much? And who would

401
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Speaker 3: you pay it to?

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Speaker 4: Even I don't even know, Like, I can't imagine that

403
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Speaker 4: any amount of money would keep anybody out of this.

404
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Speaker 4: I mean, this is the United States government right prosecuted.

405
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Speaker 4: I just I don't know, but I guess we'll see.

406
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Speaker 5: Well, speaking of the prosecution. In addition to playing videos

407
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Speaker 5: of the freak offs during Jane's testimony, Jane also testified

408
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Speaker 5: that two times did he ask her to bring packages

409
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Speaker 5: of drugs from California to Miami in her check luggage.

410
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Speaker 5: She wasn't comfortable to do this. But this also goes

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Speaker 5: to the government's case of racketeering, conspiracy, and other charges

412
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Speaker 5: and forcing victims into actions they otherwise would have never done.

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Speaker 2: And this is where KK comes in right about here,

414
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Speaker 2: because she was a part of this, allegedly, allegedly allegedly.

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Speaker 2: She also has been cited in several of the civil

416
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Speaker 2: lawsuits set against him. But again, she's considered the Glane

417
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Speaker 2: Maxwell of this if you were likening this to Epstein,

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Speaker 2: but if they're you know, getting prescription drugs under bad names,

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Speaker 2: or having people mule prescriptions across borders, all of that

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Speaker 2: not looking good and married.

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Speaker 4: That could be a predicate act for Rico, right, Remember,

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Speaker 4: of course you need two predicate acts, and drug trafficking

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Speaker 4: is one of them.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 5: And then other big testimonies that already happened were Eddie Garcia.

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Speaker 5: I think most of us probably remember that really incendiary

427
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Speaker 5: video of Didy beating his ex girlfriend Cassie Ventura in

428
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Speaker 5: a hotel where he's holding a towel with one hand.

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Speaker 5: So that video got squashed because partially of a man

430
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Speaker 5: named Eddi Garcia. He was a former security supervisor at

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Speaker 5: the Intercontinental Hotel where this happened. And did he paid

432
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Speaker 5: one hundred thousand dollars to get that video removed he

433
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Speaker 5: worked for a while.

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Speaker 2: I mean he gets immunity. I see, yeah, he got

435
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Speaker 2: It's just awful.

436
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Speaker 4: That to me is so awful, especially like what was

437
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Speaker 4: on the video, Like how could you not like callall somebody,

438
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 4: Like how could you sleep at night being like oh

439
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 4: I got fifty grand?

440
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 3: It's terrible.

441
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

442
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 4: Well, coming up on True Crime tonight, we're going to

443
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 4: be talking about the alleged Long Island serial killer with

444
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 4: Corey Abraham, who developed the upcoming documentary. And I'm so

445
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 4: excited about this. In the eleven o'clock hour, we're gonna

446
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 4: be talking about Brian Coberger's defense team. They've called new witnesses,

447
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 4: all from his hometown.

448
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: What do they know?

449
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 4: And the author who literally wrote the book on list.

450
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 4: Stick with us True Crime tonight.

451
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: Back to this deep dive we've been promising about the

452
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 2: Long Island serial Killer. If you haven't been following this case,

453
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 2: buckle up because we have some mighty fine company with us.

454
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: Corey Abraham joining us now also head of Unscripted at VERSINT.

455
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: She developed this project to the documentary that's air on Tuesday,

456
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 2: June tenth on Peacock called the Gilgo Beach Killer House

457
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: of Secrets. Welcome Corey, thank you, so nice to.

458
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 7: Talk to you.

459
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 3: So you have me, you have body, and you have Courtney.

460
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 7: So is nice to meet. Very nice to Okay, I mean,

461
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 7: I'm so excited to be here. We have to we

462
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 7: have so much talk about.

463
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: So we were literally just talking about this all morning.

464
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: First of all, the trailer looks amazing. So your doc

465
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: comes out just for clarity next Tuesday. That's just in

466
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: forty eight hours, everybody, and you have this very unique

467
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: access the trailer looks.

468
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: You know, sol, I'm so excited.

469
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: I literally I I message I cannot wait to watch

470
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 4: this documentary. In fact, I might be sick that night,

471
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 4: you guys, I might have to take the night off

472
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 4: to watch this.

473
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 7: Document You might be able to go on the radio. No. Yeah,

474
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 7: by the way, I literally have seen so many cuts

475
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 7: of it, and I'm like, do I stay home till

476
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 7: I just watch it again by myself? Yes, it is

477
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 7: actually really shocking. Well, first of all, the whole story

478
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 7: is shocking. But yeah, I'll let you guys out because

479
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 7: I can. I'll just go off, you know that.

480
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 3: Well, let's start with a little setup, right court.

481
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, So for people who don't know exactly precisely who

482
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 5: we're talking about, there's a couple of updates on the

483
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 5: Long Island serial killer. So, just about a week ago,

484
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 5: the New York Post published an article about a woman

485
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 5: she recently came forward and said she had a creepy

486
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 5: encounter with the alleged killer, Rex Huerman. She's twenty one

487
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 5: years old. Her name is Caylin Morales, and she was

488
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 5: riding the Long Island Railroad after a date when Hueerman

489
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 5: plopped down next to her. Despite the train being almost empty.

490
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 5: And he was arrested only twelve days later, So we're

491
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 5: going to dig into that a little more. But yeah,

492
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 5: and as a double reminder, Rex Huerman he was arrested

493
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty three on suspicion of allegedly being the

494
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 5: killer responsible for eleven murders in the Go Go Beach

495
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 5: area of Long Island, happened between nineteen ninety six and

496
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 5: twenty ten. He has been specifically linked to seven of

497
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 5: the murders and is a suspect into all the while

498
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 5: living the life of just sort of a family man, architect.

499
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 3: Kind of like a boring guy, right, Yes.

500
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: No commute very day on the Long Island railroad totally

501
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: with his daughter.

502
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 7: Really, yeah, yes, that's what he did. He did. He

503
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 7: got on the Long Island Railroad every single day. His daughter,

504
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 7: I think was a reception and set his architecture firm

505
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 7: and he like did the full on out like guy

506
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 7: from Long Island, average guy takes the train and takes

507
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 7: the train home. Life picks him up from the train station,

508
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,239
Speaker 7: has dinner on the table for him. And this has

509
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 7: been going on for like god knows how many years.

510
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 4: Well and speaking of his wife has kind of stayed

511
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 4: by his side this entire time, right, like she is,

512
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 4: you know, this is her husband, She's going to stand

513
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: by him. And that's kind of what the documentary kind

514
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 4: of goes into a little bit, right Cory, Well.

515
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 7: I mean, look, I don't want to give too much

516
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 7: about should watch it. I think that a lot of

517
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 7: what Asa says is shocking and a lot of what

518
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 7: I mean everybody in the documentary says is shocking because

519
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 7: it's you know what, this is one of those cases

520
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 7: that there have been countless documentaries about the List and

521
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 7: Long Island serial Killer, and you know, we're always very

522
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 7: careful to like what's new, what's different? Why now when

523
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 7: we're deciding on like what we should do as far

524
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 7: as feature documentaries or even like multi part series. And

525
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 7: the second I got a phone call saying, you know,

526
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 7: also wants to do a documentary and you know, feature

527
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 7: her perspective as well as her children. I was like, uh,

528
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 7: sign me up like first, like first, and I like

529
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 7: jumped on the plane. And so it is really really

530
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 7: interesting and compelling the documentary. But the predicament that she

531
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 7: is in and her daughter is in and her son

532
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 7: is in is unlike anything that like unless you're parent

533
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 7: is a serial killer and you find out later in life,

534
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 7: it is really hard to grapple with, Like it is

535
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 7: a very very complicated base to be in and to

536
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 7: live in. And it's like, wait a minute, you mean

537
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 7: to tell me that the guy that I've been living

538
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 7: with and married you for, you know, twenty something years

539
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 7: is a serial killer? How can that be? How can

540
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 7: it be? And that's really a lot of what Asa

541
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 7: goes into, like how is it possible that I didn't know?

542
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 7: And how is it possible that this happened? And so

543
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 7: I think she's questioning a lot and I think I

544
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 7: think a lot of viewers will be really surprised by

545
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 7: her and her POV. But again, we've we started shooting

546
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 7: right when he basically right when he was convicted, not

547
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 7: he wasn't convicted right when he was charged, Okay, right,

548
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 7: and so and I mean originally we had actually we

549
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 7: were doing like a fast turnaround doc, like hey, let's

550
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 7: just do a quickie. And then why we were making

551
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 7: it and had already started production. We got I got

552
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 7: the song callbot Asa and Family, and I was like,

553
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 7: oh my god, we need to dig a beat now.

554
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 7: And it's not this fast turnaround, and now we need

555
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 7: to take our time, and we really need to sort

556
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 7: of do it justice. I mean, first and foremost, a

557
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 7: lot of people have died, and it is a really

558
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 7: hard storytell because it's like how it is. There's a

559
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 7: lot of victims and a lot of family members, and

560
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 7: a lot of them are utterly devastated. Even though it

561
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 7: goes back to you know nine, you know, nineteen ninety six,

562
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 7: I think is the first time. But again, he has

563
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 7: not been convicted or charged for all of those crimes.

564
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 7: I think he's actually charged for seven, and originally he

565
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 7: was only charged for four. And while we were shooting,

566
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 7: like more charges kept on happening, so we were like,

567
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 7: even within ourselves were it was just more about wait

568
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 7: a minute, who is who is rex Urann? Who is

569
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 7: the wife? What does she know? Like she must know something,

570
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 7: And I mean I've I went back and forth a

571
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 7: few times, but I'd have to tell you I really

572
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 7: don't think she knew anything, Like I really don't, and

573
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 7: I don't think her daughter knew anything. However, it'll be

574
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 7: really interesting. Oh my god, I shouldn't have given that away.

575
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 7: I should have let you all decide what we're.

576
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 3: Gonna watch it anyway.

577
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to like even because that what you're describing,

578
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: Corey is the intersection. I think that, yeah, we're all

579
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: so curious about, right, is the idea that somebody who

580
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: you love or you care for or you know in

581
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: a certain way can really be living a simultaneous existence.

582
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: And you know what, maybe you have a spidy sense

583
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: about something where maybe something feels off but that's like

584
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: so generic you don't or meaning that you're really clueless exactly,

585
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: or that's even more pain in a way, or you're

586
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: clueless exactly. So I think that's so human and just

587
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: being able to explore that, I think is so interesting.

588
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: And you were actually in the house.

589
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 7: I was in the house. But wait before we get

590
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 7: to the house. I mean, it's alleged that Rex has

591
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 7: been killing for a lot longer than he's even been

592
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 7: married to Asa, and he may have picked her because

593
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 7: she was somebody who would not know, would not like

594
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 7: and by the way she's she had a rough life,

595
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 7: you know, like she she also had a first marriage

596
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 7: that was that was not necessarily positive, and she was

597
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 7: he was her hero, like he was her hero. But

598
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 7: it really is very disturbing the whole story. But I

599
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 7: will tell you hearing all perspectives of it, like even

600
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 7: his best friend we spoke with, it is really yeah,

601
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 7: we spooked him to he has a friend's hunting buddy this.

602
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: Agency call.

603
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 7: But but yeah, to answer your question, I was in

604
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 7: the house before the before he was charged with more

605
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 7: than four I think, like, so we started shooting, we

606
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 7: go to the house, we do the first interview with ASA,

607
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 7: and we're like in the house, my goodness, like walking

608
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 7: around like it literally looked like a bombshell hit it,

609
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 7: and like you can't t why is that?

610
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: Why is it so messy?

611
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 7: Well? I think this is really a good question, like

612
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 7: are they slightly hoarders? I actually don't know. But police

613
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 7: had come and literally like flipped over everything and taken

614
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 7: off every single door, removed every mattress. What it is

615
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 7: like they had to do their investigation and they didn't

616
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 7: move out. They stayed there.

617
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 2: Really yeah, so yeah, and there's two children, and I

618
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: guess you know, listen, it sounds like were you there

619
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: before or after? Because then they had gone back again,

620
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: and you know, listen, it sounds like some very scary

621
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 2: things allegedly potentially may have happened in that home?

622
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 3: Did it good vibes? Bad vibes? Do you scent? Do

623
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: you have a feeling for that?

624
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 7: I mean we were there before there was any any

625
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 7: conversation about what happened in the home, and so we

626
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 7: were like in the backyard and like we went down

627
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 7: to the basement and like you know, there was no

628
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 7: doors and we did actually have my coworker had used

629
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 7: the rossroom and she went to the basement and she

630
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 7: got a splinter and I was like, you can't leave,

631
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 7: like your DNN Like I was like, I was like,

632
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 7: this is bad nude. I was like, we gotta get

633
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 7: out of here. But but yeah, and by the way,

634
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 7: like you do feel for these people, like it's awful,

635
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 7: And then it's really hard to feel for them because

636
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 7: there are people whose family members are dead, and it's like,

637
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 7: like you got it's a it's a very fine line.

638
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 7: When you're making a documentary like this. It's like you're

639
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 7: telling their their truth, right, this is their truth? Yea,

640
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 7: And they also feel terrible, Like I also feels terrible

641
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 7: that that somebody killed all of these women. Now, whether

642
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 7: she believes whether it's her husband or not, you're gonna

643
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 7: have to latch the death.

644
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: You're gonna stay with us for this next segment? Can

645
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: you stay with us for one more segment?

646
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 6: Yeah?

647
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 7: Of course I'm here.

648
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 3: I can't get enough. Are you there, Corey Well? In

649
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: the meantime, yay, I'm not you have no.

650
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 7: I had you on mute because I was like coughing,

651
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 7: and I was like, what's gonna happen?

652
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: Oh no, oh, my sickness is spreading. We're all calling.

653
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 7: Yes, ma'am.

654
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 5: What what the heck? It's Court, Hello, Courtney Court. What

655
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 5: the heck was it like while you were in production

656
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 5: from when it went to four victims alleged to the.

657
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: Seven Wow, major, you're in the bee hive at that

658
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: point when real things are happening.

659
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 3: When the hornet's nest gets shook, basically.

660
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 7: Right, well, yes, and of course, like you know, listen,

661
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 7: when you work in true crime and documentaries, and you

662
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 7: guys notice because you do this all the time. It's

663
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 7: like you have your you know, the the second something happens,

664
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 7: your phone rings, right like I'm on Google alerts for

665
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 7: like every single thing. I have never been a part

666
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 7: of the documentary. With every moment I turned around, I

667
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 7: was like, and another one and oh my god, he

668
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 7: could be connected to this one. I mean again, listen,

669
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 7: there have been a lot of documentaries that were.

670
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 9: A lot of speculation about about connecting a lot of

671
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 9: these people because again, you know, a lot of these

672
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 9: women have been murdered for a long time, and there

673
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 9: was a lot of connection. The families have connected, you know,

674
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 9: with each other.

675
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 7: But to have like DNA of or familial DNA on

676
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 7: victims that you know, have been totally like unsolved for

677
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 7: such a long time, that was shocking, you know. And

678
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 7: the arrest of is of Rex was completely shocking.

679
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: I don't know, he came out of nowhere. WHOA did

680
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: that come out in nowhere?

681
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 7: It came out of nowhere. And you know, a lot

682
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 7: of a lot of the questions that I ask and

683
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 7: the documentary asss like why did this take so long?

684
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 7: You know what I mean? Because it did. Really it

685
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 7: takes a long time for to figure it out. And

686
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 7: there was a lot of different you know, police running

687
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 7: to the county and it was like it was a

688
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 7: lot going on also at the time in Long Island,

689
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 7: and there have been other serial killers on Long Island.

690
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 7: I mean, let's face it, risk, I mean, it is

691
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 7: it is. There's quite a few of them. But but

692
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 7: I will say that that the fact that really that

693
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 7: you know, I mean DNA today obviously is incredible. You know,

694
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 7: the the company offoram who you know is connected. I

695
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 7: know they are, I know they are really, I mean

696
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 7: of everything, there is not a case that the middlemans

697
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 7: on our front line is And every time I do

698
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 7: something when through a coproduction to him, like are you

699
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 7: using a outroom? But but I will say that the

700
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 7: shocking nature of it is like you're in it. It's

701
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 7: a it's a cold case, and it starts to like

702
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 7: heat up more and more like by the day. So

703
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 7: I'm like, now, like you know, we're waiting for a

704
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 7: trial date, and there's a lot of speculation like will

705
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 7: he plea? Like will he plea? Or won't he plea?

706
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 7: Will he go to trial? Won't he go to trial?

707
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: He will go to trial. I'm so curious, like what's

708
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: he got to lose at this point?

709
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 3: Right?

710
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: And you know he seems like he's so above it. Listen, Quirky,

711
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 2: I hate to have to wrap you up.

712
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 3: It was a joy to have.

713
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 2: Now you're gonna have to keep coming back and Tuesday,

714
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: everybody June tenth, make sure you're tuning in. I can't

715
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: wait the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets. We'll be

716
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: right back more on the Brian Coburger case. This is

717
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We talk true crime all the time.

718
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: We've said it many times. This is the summer of trials,

719
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: unbelievable ones, the likes of which we haven't really seen yet,

720
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: let alone back to back. And also Brian Coburger, he's

721
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: updated his witness list to include five people from his hometown.

722
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with the Brian Coberger case, he's

723
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 2: been accused of murdering for college students in the Idaho

724
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: College Murderers is how it's been referred to. And that

725
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: trial is set for August eleventh. There's been a lot

726
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: of back and forth and sounds like there's been a

727
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: continuance being discussed and body you have the update there.

728
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the case summary, So the Idaho Judicial website,

729
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 4: if you go to the if you go to that website,

730
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 4: there's a case summary. It's just the PDF and it

731
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 4: just lists all the documents in like chronological order that

732
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 4: are coming you know, that are on the docket.

733
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: Basically, while there's.

734
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 4: One that's been added I think I think it happened

735
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 4: late Friday, and it's basically the State of Idaho's response

736
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: to the defense asking for a continuance. Okay, so a

737
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 4: continuance is we're not ready for trial. It needs to

738
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 4: be pushed back right now. It's scheduled for August eleventh,

739
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 4: I think August eleventh, and the defense is saying we

740
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 4: need more time. And you know, this is the state's response. Now,

741
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: the hearing is on June eighteenth, and it is going

742
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 4: to be able to be viewed by the public. So

743
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 4: I am hoping that this document gives us a little

744
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 4: bit of insight into what the state is going to

745
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 4: be arguing at that hearing. Additionally, today, you guys, today,

746
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 4: June eighth, it's Kaylee Jade Day. Now Kaylee, Kaylee Gonsolve.

747
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 4: This is a victim of this crime. And you know,

748
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: on her birthday every year, her family asks that people

749
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 4: do what you love, okay, so and her honor. So, like,

750
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 4: maybe you like to surf, I don't know, go surfing,

751
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 4: post a picture to social media and tag Kaylee Jade Day.

752
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 4: Live your life because you know what, it's too short.

753
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 4: You need to live it. So I just thought I

754
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 4: wanted to bring it up because it is it is

755
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 4: her day to.

756
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: Day and people are posting photographs and stuff of them

757
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 2: doing their best day. I'm glad you bring that up

758
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: because Kaylee Gonsolved and her best friend Madison Mogan, they

759
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 2: were buds, you know, they grew up together.

760
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: They were like sisters.

761
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: You know, if you've seen that iconic photo of the

762
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: four of them sort of on their shoulders looking so

763
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: happy and alive, you know, they're the two blonde ones.

764
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: And Kaylie posted that to her Instagram that day, right,

765
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 4: and she said something like, I couldn't ask for better

766
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 4: people in my life like she was just she was

767
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 4: a special person, joyful, very joyful, and very blessed. She

768
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 4: knew she was blessed.

769
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 3: And it's a good.

770
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 5: Time to also remember the other two victims, of course,

771
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 5: Xana Kernodle and Ethan Schapin, who also lost their lives,

772
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 5: and just as a reminder for people who aren't super converse,

773
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 5: and Bryan Colberger, a former PhD candidate in criminology. He

774
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 5: is facing the death penalty for allegedly fatally stabbing these

775
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 5: four beautiful victims in the prime of their lives.

776
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 3: And they were such good friends.

777
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 2: And of course there were two surviving roommates, thankfully, and

778
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: you know all of these live minute details or in

779
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: this case, you know, the defense is now calling five

780
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: witnesses from the alleged killer, Brian Coberger's childhood or his

781
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 2: just from his life that we really haven't heard from before.

782
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 3: What do you guys make of that?

783
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think they're probably going to be

784
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 4: like character witnesses of some kind. I mean, they certainly

785
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 4: they're not going to have him any events of the crime.

786
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 4: I don't I can't imagine. I mean, they were in

787
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: they live in Pennsylvania, right, These witnesses that are being called,

788
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 4: they know him from him prior to him leaving and

789
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: going to Washington State University. So I imagine it's just

790
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 4: going to be kind of character witnesses. I don't think

791
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 4: they're going to be super substantial. One of them, one

792
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 4: of them is the guy that sold them the Alantra.

793
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: Isn't that interesting?

794
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: I mean I thought that was pretty compelling too, because

795
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: again we're seeing somebody at such a specific cross section. Also,

796
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 2: I think somebody who he used to box with, right,

797
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: I guess you know, he went from being bullied for

798
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: his weight to you know, dropping a bunch of weight

799
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: and getting really hyper into fitness.

800
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: And maybe that's part of that.

801
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: Story that gives a little backstory to his I guess life.

802
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: But does it matter? But yeah, it seems late in

803
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 2: the game to be adding so many people.

804
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's also worth remembering that all these

805
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 5: people were his whole life. Actually, so Brian Colberger only

806
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 5: moved from Pennsylvania. I think it was only months, if

807
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 5: I'm not mistake.

808
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was Darren, like June or July. That's right

809
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 4: before the poll party, right before the growth, right because

810
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 4: school has just started and this was his first year

811
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: at WSU.

812
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, he had just knew there.

813
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, so these would be anyone they would pull, would

814
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 5: be the people who knew him for the first what

815
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 5: twenty seven or so years of his life. But I

816
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 5: don't know if the defense's goal, it's probably to try

817
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 5: and humanize him, I would guess.

818
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: I'm guessing, And it's a tough call.

819
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: This is a tough case in general because it has

820
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: gotten so much public attention. Again, are is it appropriate

821
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 2: that he's kind of the guy you know in the

822
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: media's eyes, Is that you know, a tell that he's

823
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 2: being targeted or is the evidence just mounting against him?

824
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: And it's really hard to deny it. Whether it's leaked

825
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: or otherwise, you can't really unsee some of this. And

826
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 2: if you haven't been following, there was a dateline leak

827
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: allegedly that you know, had some telling stuff in it

828
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: that doesn't particularly look great for Brian Coberger, the accused.

829
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: And listen, at the core of it, this is a

830
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: guy that was studying murder. Does that matter or does

831
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: that make him an easy person to point to because

832
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: it makes headlines, you know, you know, at the end of.

833
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 4: The day, I often wonder if that, you know, I

834
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 4: go back and forth, like, does his you know, studying

835
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 4: in this specific subject have anything to do with this?

836
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: It seems as he.

837
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: Would be better at it, you know, he gets some

838
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: things really poorly. He's bringing your phone on a killing

839
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 2: spree and going back thereafter and leaving by kind a

840
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 2: knife sheath seemed pretty messy if you're allegedly, allegedly, allegedly,

841
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 2: if you're you know, an assassin who's been studying it

842
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 2: and practicing. Again, I'm not discounting that that could very

843
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: well be the case. I'm just saying it's all so confusing,

844
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 2: and you know, our hearts again go out to Kaylee

845
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: Gonzalveez's parents in Madison Mogan's parents and it's awful and

846
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 2: Xenikernodle and Ethan Shapen, I mean, interesting as it is

847
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: to unpack it. It is just such a crazy crime

848
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: in such an overkill. It just it's hard to wrap

849
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: your brain around.

850
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 5: It, truly is. So I want to get into some

851
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 5: of the other people who they are calling. So Stephanie,

852
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 5: you mentioned someone from the boxing gym, and what else

853
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 5: do we know about from there?

854
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: Two of them I think are still kind of anonymous

855
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: that it hasn't been released quite yet. The boxing person,

856
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: also somebody from his school. It's interesting because Courtney, you

857
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 2: and I have interviewed so many people in and around

858
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: this case over the years because we did the podcast

859
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: and we were also working on the documentary, and.

860
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 3: People say he was really shy, he was odd.

861
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 2: Again in retrospect, you know how there's that person that's

862
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,720
Speaker 2: somehow oh yeah, when I'm really forced to think about

863
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: it looking back, they were they were really strange, or

864
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: they were really he was pretty ordinary by all accounts,

865
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: until you know, later in high school when he seemingly

866
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: bumped into some trouble. He had some complaints against him

867
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: for being kind of air quotes odd, but we don't

868
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: know much more than that that would point to him

869
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: being this ready to kill.

870
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 4: Right, his online presence is pretty skeleton too, Like, there's

871
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 4: not a whole lot, you know, we have the discussion

872
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 4: forum where he's talking about his visual snow in depth,

873
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 4: but it doesn't really give us any insight into who

874
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 4: he was. Right the Reddit survey we saw online. My

875
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 4: point is there isn't a lot online for us to

876
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 4: go to either get to know who Brian was like,

877
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 4: what was he like, what what were his interests? What

878
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: was he like as a friend. We really just don't

879
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 4: know all that stuff yet we don't.

880
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 5: And body, you brought up the Reddit survey, can you

881
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 5: remind everybody what that?

882
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, So there was a survey online and it was

883
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 4: supposed to Reddit under I can't remember the account name,

884
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 4: but it was authenticated to be Brian Coberger's account. And

885
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 4: this account was basically saying, you know, I'm in graduate

886
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 4: school and I'm studying for criminology. If you've committed a

887
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 4: violent crime, can you fill out the survey, right, and

888
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 4: so then you click the survey and the questions were

889
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 4: like how did you feel before you committed the crime?

890
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 4: And they were like they were questions about like preparation

891
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 4: and feeling and what you felt like after even they

892
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 4: were really like detail and now listen reading it knowing

893
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 4: he was a criminology student, I don't really know if

894
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 4: it's all that weird, right or horror?

895
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: An accused killer? An accused killer might dad he claims

896
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: his innocence or was he trying to remember? In the

897
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: dateline leaks, we learned that he was googling, like, you know,

898
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: why am I so different? Or can I be normal?

899
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 2: I can't remember the exact frame VERG. But that's the

900
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: juxtaposition of it.

901
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 4: Was he trying to validate his feelings through this survey,

902
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: Like am I feeling this way because I need to

903
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 4: prep for this crime? Will I feel better after it's done?

904
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 4: Am I going to get the satisfaction I think I

905
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 4: need by committing these crimes?

906
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's interesting too.

907
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: In that survey he was kind of he was kind

908
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: of classifying the type of personality traits that you know,

909
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: somebody who would want to commit a crime. Would have,

910
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: and I always thought that was curious too. Is that

911
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: him sort of diagnosing himself with some sort of psychopathy?

912
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 3: Am I saying that correctly? Psychopathy?

913
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 2: I think psychopay you know, clearly not a doctor, but

914
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 2: you know, is he is he kind of questioning is

915
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 2: this me? Or is it possible that I'm a good

916
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: person or I can push through this? Like maybe there

917
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: was kind of this Sophie's choice of sorts.

918
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 3: I think he's very self aware.

919
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 5: I remember one of the questions you were referring to

920
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 5: earlier body on the dateline as it came out, assuming

921
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 5: it is true, was it was something like can a

922
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,439
Speaker 5: sociopath appear like they have empathy? It was along those lines.

923
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 5: Those aren't the words, but I mean really just spelling

924
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 5: out what seemed potentially to be.

925
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 4: A struggle, right, And I feel like that survey kind

926
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 4: of goes to that maybe or maybe it was like

927
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 4: a legitimate assignment, you know, like is he trying to

928
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 4: validate Yeah, this is the path I'm supposed to be

929
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 4: on because I have the same feelings as my survey

930
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 4: respondents do. Because he was asking people that committed crimes

931
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 4: to do.

932
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 2: It right, and like a psychopath by definition lacks empathy, right,

933
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: so they don't have the empathy that's required to not

934
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: commit a crime, you know, because you have compassion for

935
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: humans and victims, you would never So maybe he was

936
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: at that cross roads.

937
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 5: Listen, I'm so curious to see what will be coming

938
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 5: out in the trial and when the trial will even begin.

939
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,879
Speaker 5: We're going to have more on the Long Island serial killer.

940
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 5: We're having author Robert Banfelder, who will share some specific

941
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 5: details that other people don't know about.

942
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 2: If you haven't been following this case, just very briefly,

943
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: Rex Humorman is a sixty one year old architect who

944
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: has been accused of murdering seven women he's being associated

945
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: with at this point, and you know, the list continues

946
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 2: to grow. He claims his innocence, his family claims his innocence,

947
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: and his trial is still upcoming. But it's an interesting

948
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: unpack simply because he just seemed to be a regular

949
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: guy living amongst us, and if what he's accused of

950
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 2: is true, you know, he is in fact a monster.

951
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: So first and foremost allowed me to introduce the author

952
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: of really the best selling book called the Gilgo Beach

953
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 2: Serial Killer Case. Does Rex Humorman Rain King of Murder

954
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 2: and Mayhem. You can get that on Amazon or at

955
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: your local bookstore. So, Robert, thank you for joining us.

956
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 6: Well, thank you Stephanie.

957
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 3: So nice to have you.

958
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: I you know, listen, we wish we was on a

959
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: topic that was a little less you know, difficult, but

960
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: we're so grateful to have your insight. So curious, you know,

961
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: just first and foremost, why did you choose this particular

962
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 2: case to write the book about?

963
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 6: Well? First off, I initially wrote two fictional accounts of

964
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 6: the Gilgo Beach homicide case titled The Long Island Serial

965
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 6: Killer Murders, Gilgo Beach and Beyond. That was followed by

966
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 6: Snuff Stuff, the latter of which covered Gilgo Beach, Oak Beach, Manorville,

967
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 6: Long Island, and Atlantic City, New Jersey. Once authorities had

968
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 6: a prime suspect in their sites and arrested Rex Ewerman,

969
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 6: I wrote two non fictional accounts titled The Long Island

970
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 6: Long Awaited, a rest of Long Island serial Killer Rex Human,

971
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 6: followed by my next and last book, The Gilgo Beach

972
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 6: Serial Killer Case.

973
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: You literally are the guys, so you've been with this

974
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: case since really for years now?

975
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 6: Conception, Yes, oh my.

976
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 3: Goodness, are you from the area.

977
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 6: I assume I'm in Riverhead, New York. As a matter

978
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 6: of fact, I can look out the window and can

979
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 6: see the back window and see where Rex you were

980
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 6: Men is confined.

981
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 3: Wow.

982
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: Wow, literally right in your backyard.

983
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 6: In the Riverhead jail. Literally wow. So I will be

984
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 6: going to the trial and you know that should be fascinating.

985
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 3: Oh.

986
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 5: Absolutely. And question how does Rex Hwerman compare to other

987
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 5: serial killers in terms of sort of behavior and background?

988
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 6: M rex Ewermen, I maintain, is a prolific serial killer,

989
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 6: having murdered scores of individuals, both women and men, not

990
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 6: just the seven murders for which he is charged. Like

991
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 6: a good many serial killers, rex Ewermen is an experimenter,

992
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 6: changing his modus operende as a means of misdirecting law

993
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 6: enforcement examples. I believe Youermen employed a polythera of methods

994
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 6: and materials to terminate his victims, such as strangulation, decapitation,

995
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,919
Speaker 6: this memberment that is head, hands, legs, arms, feet, as

996
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 6: many as sixteen body parts Stephanie wow Arson, gardenshot beatings, rape, torture,

997
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 6: hanging night things, power sow and having their bodies apped

998
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 6: in either plastic burl app or blankets.

999
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, because you know what, Robert, to your point,

1000
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: so am I getting this right? They recently, like the

1001
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 2: last time they were excavating that front lawn at the

1002
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 2: house that he and his family lived. Rex, there is

1003
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 2: sort of this assertion that there may have been very

1004
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: hideous silence of the lands type stuff that happened potentially

1005
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: in that basement. You know, things that you're describing, chainsaws

1006
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: and just memberments. It's unimaginable to believe that this person

1007
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: could actually go to work the next day on the

1008
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: Long Island Railroad.

1009
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 3: How does a person pull that off?

1010
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 6: Well, as far as just give me a second here

1011
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 6: in terms of the town where Rex uer Men resides,

1012
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 6: chainsaw us and that kind of business that didn't transpire

1013
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 6: within the home that would be uh outside in areas

1014
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 6: in other states in his travels.

1015
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 3: Unbelievable, Wow, unbelievable, Robert.

1016
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: Kaylin Taylor Morales, the woman that's come forward with this

1017
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 4: this new story, what did.

1018
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: You make of that?

1019
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 5: Hmm?

1020
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 6: My answer to that is the sheer irony of the situation,

1021
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,439
Speaker 6: The fact that Kaylin Morales is sitting on a one

1022
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 6: owned railroad next to the soon to be arrested serial

1023
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 6: killer is absolutely chilling. Soon to be arrested in in

1024
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 6: less than two weeks from that time, it's incredible. Yeah,

1025
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 6: let me just add. Let me just add this had Kaitlin,

1026
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 6: though it's highly unlikely. Had Caitlin engaged Rex, you were

1027
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 6: mean in conversation and found him interesting instead of seeing

1028
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 6: him as a quote unquote big but ugly white man,

1029
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 6: as she related in her story when speaking to The

1030
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 6: New York Post, Caitlin could have wound up as the

1031
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 6: Rex Ewerman's victim, next victim.

1032
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 3: So I have another question for you, Robert. What do

1033
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 3: you think?

1034
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry? What do you think this case? Why

1035
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 4: do you think it took so long to crack it

1036
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 4: despite all the clues left behind?

1037
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 6: Undoubtedly undoubted least it was because of X Chief of

1038
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 6: Police Jimmy Burke's interference concerning the Goggle Beach serial color case.

1039
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 6: From its onset, imagine the FBI was thwarted from involving

1040
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 6: itself in a notorious case because Jimmy Burke did not

1041
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 6: want attention drawn to himself for several reasons. The Gilgel

1042
00:54:55,600 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 6: Beach Oak Beach areas where Burke's stomping ground were Burke's

1043
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 6: stomping grounds, and by that I mean places where the

1044
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 6: police chief frequently conducted his unsavory practices. We learn of

1045
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 6: his proclivities in procuring prostitutes and consuming drugs at cocaine

1046
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 6: fueled sex parties in areas where the Gilgel Beach bodies

1047
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 6: were found. It is a fact, this is surprising too many,

1048
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 6: that Jimmy Burke operated a prostitution ring with a woman

1049
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 6: while he was a police officer, as evidenced in that

1050
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 6: the Eternal Affairs Bureau was pursuing those allegations relentlessly. And

1051
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 6: let me add that the case could have been solved

1052
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 6: years earlier when David Shaller, a friend slash pimp of

1053
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 6: one of the victims, gave police a thirty accurate description

1054
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 6: of Rex shrewermen and his vehicle six foot four inches tall,

1055
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:12,760
Speaker 6: two hundred and forty pounds ogre like looking and driving

1056
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 6: a unique Chevy Avalanche pickup truck.

1057
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,479
Speaker 3: What well, and by the way, he is.

1058
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: So noticeably large too, that we don't say that lightly.

1059
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: He's a tremendous man. He's very large. He has a

1060
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: very specific look. So you know, who knows what other

1061
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 2: mayhem could have been avoided had that been pursued correctly,

1062
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: and you know, the victim's moms really rallied together to

1063
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 2: find justice.

1064
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 3: Wow, it's incredibly scandalous, Robert.

1065
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 5: Do you believe there are even possibly more victims that

1066
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 5: haven't been connected yet?

1067
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 6: Many, many more. Rex Shrewerman had been in the position

1068
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 6: of having worked as a prominent architect and expert building

1069
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 6: code expert. These assignments took him to several states, affording

1070
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 6: him a unique opportunity to operate in the open and

1071
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 6: virtually uninterrupted within areas where scores of these murders occurred.

1072
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 6: As an expert zoning analyst possessing an esoteric knowledge in

1073
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 6: cutting through red tape, he was in constant, constant demand.

1074
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 6: Were permits which allowed him to visit in an area before, during,

1075
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 6: and after an inspection, gave him the perfect cover without

1076
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 6: creating any suspicion.

1077
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: So, because he was an architect, he was going to

1078
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: these locations. I never really wowed. I wonder, I never

1079
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 2: really connected that top before.

1080
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 3: I wonder.

1081
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 4: I'm sure that they've looked at those travel times, right,

1082
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 4: like they have to have a record of, like the

1083
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 4: travel times where he went, you know, maybe looking at

1084
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 4: you know, unsolved murders in those areas, Like, I'm sure

1085
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 4: they're doing that, right, I'm sure they are.

1086
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 3: They have to be, have to.

1087
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 6: Be they are, But you know, I'm not getting any

1088
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 6: kind of update on that. They're holding that close to

1089
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 6: the best, you know, they have to on Wall Island. Here,

1090
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 6: you know, we're dealing with seven and possibly I think

1091
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 6: it's kind of late now, but I was wondering if

1092
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 6: there was going to be an eighth one. But that's

1093
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 6: eight out of God only knows how many. I would

1094
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,439
Speaker 6: venture to say. We're not talking even scores, but we're

1095
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 6: talking probably like a hundred, maybe more one hundred Man

1096
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 6: Felder and many many other people.

1097
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 3: Oh so you're not the only one saying That's what

1098
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 3: I say.

1099
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 6: Prolific, Stephanie, I mean prolific. This guy is, you know, unbelievable.

1100
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 3: You're going to have, because this is going to be ongoing.

1101
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 2: You're going to have to stay with us, oh yet

1102
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: and again and keep coming back and updating us regularly.

1103
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:00,479
Speaker 4: Absolutely so, thank you so much, Robert Benfel. And again,

1104
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 4: you're listening to True Crime tonight, we're talking, we're going

1105
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 4: to be talking more about this, and please don't forget

1106
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 4: to call us at eight eight eight thirty one. Crime

1107
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 4: and thoughts on any of Tonight's stories Keep a ray

1108
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 4: here on true Crime Tonight where we're talking true crime

1109
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 4: all the time.

1110
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 2: So the trials of the summer, the cases of the Summer,

1111
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 2: I guess I should say, you know, these are the

1112
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 2: ones that we'll be tracking closely.

1113
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 3: Body, what's the number one on your list?

1114
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 4: Well, the number one on my list is Idaho, Brian

1115
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 4: co Oberber. That's going to be the trial that I

1116
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 4: am tuning into every like literally living and dying by

1117
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 4: you know, sleeping, eating, breathing everything, Idaho. Additionally, Luigi, Yeah,

1118
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 4: I'm like really interested in Luigi, if you guys. I

1119
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 4: mean I've said this before, but I'm like super into

1120
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 4: like the manifesto, right, I am all about a manifest

1121
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 4: Give me the manifesto to like analyze and digest. I'm

1122
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 4: all about that. And Luigi had a manifesto, right, and

1123
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 4: we got new parts of it. We just got new

1124
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 4: parts of this manifesto and I think we're gonna probably

1125
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 4: deep but dive that on Monday.

1126
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, Monday Manifesto. Monday, Monday Manifesto, Monday, Monday. That

1127
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 3: is the new thing.

1128
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 2: All summer, because there's actually quite a few to compare

1129
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: there is, that's right, And.

1130
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 3: I'm really into like forensic linguistics.

1131
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 4: Like listen, I'm a layman one hundred percent, but I

1132
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 4: really like picking up part these manifestos and finding commonalities

1133
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 4: and like, if you can find a commonality with a

1134
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 4: different manifesto, maybe they took inspiration and what was their

1135
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 4: motive and you know what I mean, Like it's all

1136
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 4: just like super fascinating to me. So I really listen,

1137
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 4: I don't love murder, okay, but I love a manifesto,

1138
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 4: all right. I will digest a manifesto until I'm blue

1139
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 4: in the face.

1140
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,479
Speaker 5: And it is interesting with manifestos, how as you said,

1141
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 5: they do seem to somehow connect and there can be

1142
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 5: almost a feedback loop of one to the other, similarly

1143
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 5: to how many serial killers go off of oh well,

1144
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 5: this was the other one.

1145
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 4: Like a blueprint like to your point to Courtney, Brian

1146
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 4: Coberger searching for Ted Bundy is is Luigi's manifesto mention

1147
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 4: of Ted Kazinski? Of course, famously, the unibomber is that

1148
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 4: kind of like a Brian Coburger goougling Ted Bundy is.

1149
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 3: That kind of a thing.

1150
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 2: Doesn't it kind of also give a little bit of

1151
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 2: a window potentially into their mental state, in their just

1152
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 2: general mental health.

1153
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 4: Right, Well, maybe I don't know, because, like I am

1154
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 4: super interested in the uniboomer or manifesto.

1155
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 3: I thought it was like brilliant.

1156
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 4: Now, of course, Ted Kazinski was an evil person who

1157
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 4: killed many people, very very innocent people for his manifesto,

1158
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 4: you know, and he mentioned this in this manifesto. But

1159
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 4: like Luigi, what we just learned, was really conscious of

1160
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 4: that in his manifesto. He was like, listen, Ted Kazinski was,

1161
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 4: you know, he didn't care he killed innocence. I'm not

1162
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 4: going to do that. Even though I believe Ted Kazinski

1163
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 4: to be I'm paraphrasing you guys. Even though I believe

1164
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 4: Ted Kazinsky to be an evil man, his manifesto was brilliant.

1165
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 4: Like Luigi took the words out of my mouth, and

1166
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 4: it kind of freaks me out a little bit. I'm like,

1167
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 4: you know, big, But Luig is also as a scholar.

1168
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 4: You know, he went to an Ivy League university. I mean, again,

1169
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 4: you're right about the manifesto in the Unibomber of It too,

1170
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 4: which is so scary because even just the little tidbits

1171
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 4: you were telling me about earlier today, which of course

1172
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 4: we'll discuss more on Manifesto Monday, was scary, Yeah, because

1173
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 4: some of that stuff is actually happened.

1174
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 3: It's happening.

1175
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 4: It's almost like teed Keazinky kind of like saw into

1176
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 4: the future a little bit and was like trying to

1177
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 4: warn us, but he did it in such a terrible way.

1178
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 3: He blew up innocent people.

1179
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 4: Luigi makes note of that in this new these new

1180
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 4: manifesto pages that we have, and he's like, listen, I

1181
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 4: don't want to kill innocent people. Like he was very

1182
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 4: he thought about it, like he considered it, but he

1183
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 4: was like, no, I'm not going to do that. I

1184
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 4: wanted I want it to be very targeted. I want

1185
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 4: it to be newsworthy. I want people to talk about

1186
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 4: these problems, but I don't want to kill innocent people. Now,

1187
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 4: it is could be argued, and it is, you know,

1188
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 4: factually true that Brian Thompson was an innocent person right right.

1189
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 4: His victim, Luigi Maggioni. If if you haven't been following along,

1190
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 4: Luigi is accused of gunning down Brian Thompson. He was

1191
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 4: the United Healthcare CEO and that's what he's being charged with.

1192
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 4: And so yeah, and he left a manifesto. So that's

1193
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 4: like one of my one of the cases. I'm going

1194
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 4: to be following a lot this summer.

1195
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 5: What else is on your kind of summer trial watch list?

1196
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 4: I mean, well, Karen Reid, obviously that's wrapping up though,

1197
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 4: so I don't know how long we're going to be

1198
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 4: able to get into the summer.

1199
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 3: But well, you know, I mean there is.

1200
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 2: Going to be fallout on that case on all sides,

1201
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 2: no matter what the verdict. Do was his house? Yeah,

1202
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 2: it's it's a tough one. And I go to bed

1203
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 2: feeling so divided after our heated conversations about it.

1204
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 4: I do too, and I but I really like talking

1205
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 4: with people that I disagree with because it helps me learn,

1206
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 4: you know, like you know, I might I might have

1207
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 4: missed that in the hearing and you might remember and

1208
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 4: I'll be like, oh, that's I forgot all about that.

1209
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 3: Or sometimes my bias.

1210
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 4: And we're all guilty of this, Right, your bias can

1211
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 4: like convince you that what your theory is is true

1212
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 4: because you're taking in information that only confirms that bias.

1213
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 2: Right, So true, such a problem, kind of funny thing

1214
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 2: on the Karen Read front. You know, she gets so

1215
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: much criticism for being glib or she looks smiley as

1216
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 2: she's entering the courtroom, and it kind of occurred to

1217
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: me too. I'm not making excuses for that, because that

1218
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 2: must be maddening if you're on John O'Keefe's family or

1219
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: if you're on his side of this. But she has

1220
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: all of these supporters basically, right, So all of these

1221
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 2: supporters in an army of them, you know, and they

1222
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 2: all wear pink, and they they cheer her on, and

1223
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: you know, she gets lot of fuel from that. Now,

1224
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 2: what is she supposed to do is she's not supposed

1225
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 2: to acknowledge these cheerleaders of sorts that have been showing

1226
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 2: up every single day to support her, and she's happy

1227
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 2: to see them. She knows many of them by name.

1228
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 2: They this is the second trial, they were there for

1229
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 2: the first one. So it is this sort of fanfare

1230
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 2: element that probably causes her to smile at them because

1231
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 2: they're familiar faces. And then that footage gets used really

1232
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 2: frankly against her because she seems like she's being insensitive

1233
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 2: in glib or eating up the fame.

1234
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,479
Speaker 3: It's like it's kind of a.

1235
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 2: Lose lose the documentarators that are trying to help you

1236
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 2: or nobody.

1237
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 4: She doesn't do herself any favors though, because like in

1238
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 4: the documentary she's in the car and she's like, I'm

1239
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 4: gonna be on the cover of Vogue.

1240
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just close. It's the part that everybody.

1241
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 4: But the good news for Karen Reid though is that

1242
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 4: she's not doing that in front of the jury.

1243
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 3: True, and that's durially here outside. You know, they could

1244
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 3: hear the supporters and by the.

1245
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 2: Way, sometimes that the family of John O'Keefe would enter

1246
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 2: the courtroom and they would get like booed or they

1247
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 2: would have negative reaction to say to the victim's family.

1248
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: Keith was a saft by everybody's standards. He seemed like

1249
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 2: a lovely, super loved guy.

1250
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 3: By all accounts. That is not up for conversation. So

1251
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 3: that's kind of gross.

1252
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 5: And I have to say I think that the people

1253
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 5: who are you know, the free Karen Reid, with the

1254
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 5: pink and the et cetera, I feel like she's almost

1255
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 5: become a token in what really is their movement, which

1256
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 5: is fight potential police corruption.

1257
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 3: Which I think is important to do.

1258
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 4: So she's like a symbol to them, yes, right, And

1259
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 4: I think I think that moment is so important, you know,

1260
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 4: like again, this is Boston.

1261
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 3: I love Boston.

1262
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,439
Speaker 2: By that, I love Boston. I love shout out to Boston. Yeah,

1263
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 2: I love Boston. But yeah, it is she's a symbol.

1264
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 3: Right.

1265
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 4: So whether or not she's guilty or not, I don't

1266
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 4: even know if they care. I think they just want

1267
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 4: to be pa.

1268
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 2: Make some noise, and they want to make some noise.

1269
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: It is like right out of Central Casting too. Like

1270
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 2: not to make a comparison to a film, because of

1271
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 2: course this is somebody's real life, but you could picture

1272
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 2: the Ben Affleck version that he directs with every single

1273
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 2: cop that gets up there, they have this, you know,

1274
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 2: perfectly Bostonian accent and they tell it like it is

1275
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 2: and they look up for each other, and so much

1276
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 2: of that is so great. It's you know, it definitely

1277
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 2: is a drag that that's being brought into question and

1278
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 2: that this microscope microscope is being put on law enforcement.

1279
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 3: Don't you think though too?

1280
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 4: And on the other side of things, right, this investigation

1281
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 4: was terrible, right, this investigation into the murder of a

1282
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 4: fellow police officer, John O'Keefe murder right awful. They were

1283
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 4: collecting evidence in red solo cups. They were using like

1284
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 4: what a leaf blower to melt the snow or hair dryers?

1285
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 4: I mean, like the investigation was absolutely terrible. The lead

1286
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 4: investigator was texting inappropriate things about Karen Reid to his friends.

1287
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 5: Inappropriate. They were so inappropriate, body that I was riveted

1288
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 5: watching the testimony of his friend from middle school who

1289
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 5: was totally innocently on this text chain. He could not

1290
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 5: or would not say those words out loud and made

1291
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 5: the attorneys and I actually I learned some words that

1292
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,839
Speaker 5: I had to go and look up on Urban Dictionary myself,

1293
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 5: and I.

1294
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: Was a pall.

1295
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay, just like a devil's advocate. Not that

1296
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: suddenly am I suddenly defending law enforcement and.

1297
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 3: I reverse roles all the time? Am I suddenly reversing roles?

1298
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 3: How of this?

1299
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 2: But yes, I you know, yes, high five to law enforcement.

1300
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:39,240
Speaker 2: This particular group, let's just play one scenario out. They

1301
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 2: realized that this Karen Reid, who didn't even like in

1302
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 2: the first place, this is their buddy's girlfriend who they

1303
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 2: think is a drag from jump Street. They don't even

1304
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 2: like her, and that was kind of apparent. She was

1305
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 2: the outsider a bit. They realized that their buddy has

1306
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 2: been killed by her, and now they're really piling on, right,

1307
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 2: they want her to fry for it and this is

1308
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 2: a no brainer. And if she thinks she's going to

1309
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 2: see the light of day, she has another thing coming.

1310
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 2: Does it mean that they are piling on? I guess

1311
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 2: I'm answering my own question. That would be corrupt.

1312
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Yeah, sometimes you have to just talk it out.

1313
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 3: Sometimes you just have to say it out loud.

1314
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 2: Stephanie, Yeah, thank goodness, I'm not on the jury. It's

1315
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 2: so confusing. Well again, we will be tracking this one

1316
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 2: all week, obviously, and I really want to hear what

1317
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,560
Speaker 2: people think. I really want people to give us a

1318
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 2: call eight eight eight thirty one crime or again use

1319
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 2: the talkbacks. I'm dying to know how long you guys

1320
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 2: think the jury is going to be out, because like

1321
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 2: sometimes that's an indicator of guilt or innocence, right, Like,

1322
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 2: if the jury comes back very quickly, what does that mean?

1323
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 2: If they come back in four days, what does that mean?

1324
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1325
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 3: Let us know. I really want to hear from you.

1326
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, me too, absolutely, although if I had to weigh

1327
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 5: it now, I would guess that a quick one would

1328
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:50,919
Speaker 5: mean guilty.

1329
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 2: You guys, I said a week ago one hundred percent

1330
01:09:54,320 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 2: of all CNN polls Bostonians. Right, I feel like two

1331
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 2: hours has just blipped right by. Wow, this is the

1332
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 2: night too that we've talked the least about John Diddy Combs.

1333
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,719
Speaker 2: You know, obviously it's got a tip of our tongue

1334
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 2: for so long. You know, I actually can't believe.

1335
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 3: I'm excited about that.

1336
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 2: Well, there's always tomorrow, so don't care, So don't even

1337
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 2: try it. But again, that's a huge case that is

1338
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 2: like really worth examining from every angle. So we'll continue

1339
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 2: to follow that this week as well.

1340
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 5: And it's an important case. I mean it is, Yes,

1341
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 5: is it getting so much play?

1342
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 3: It sure is.

1343
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 5: But listen, what a message to someone, I mean, a mogul,

1344
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 5: a lifetime award winner, an icon arguably, and to be

1345
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 5: taken to task and actually be shown. I don't know.

1346
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 5: I think there's it's power to you know, have people

1347
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 5: who are that powerful, but to be exposed.

1348
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 3: Do you think behind closed?

1349
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 7: Like?

1350
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:55,559
Speaker 2: So, when did he goes back to his cell at

1351
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 2: night and he speaks to Sam Bankman, the the other

1352
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 2: prisoner who's high profile, and those two swap their day

1353
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 2: tales of their times. Do you think did he is

1354
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,799
Speaker 2: seeing this stuff and is feeling bad? Does he feel

1355
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 2: remorse or is he still feeling completely justified and you know,

1356
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 2: working under this theory that this was all very consensual without.

1357
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 5: Being in his brain, I would say he is feeling

1358
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 5: furious that the people who were his soldiers and you know,

1359
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 5: fell in line due to whatever it was money or

1360
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 5: you know, bribing them. I think he's furious.

1361
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 4: I think loyalty is really big didity and I think

1362
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 4: that's that Courtney kind of hit the nail on the head.

1363
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 4: I think he's probably feeling very betrayed and how dare they?

1364
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 4: And don't they know who I am? I'm an icon.

1365
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 4: I think that's what he's feeling. Whether or not that's

1366
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 4: going to prove to be true or not is another story.

1367
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:57,759
Speaker 4: But I have a feeling he's feeling a lot of rage,

1368
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 4: and I don't think he's feeling remorseful. He's feeling remorseful

1369
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 4: that he got caught in that those people were not

1370
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 4: as loyal to him as he thought they were, and

1371
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 4: you can't just treat people like that and keep their loyalty.

1372
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 4: Like no amount of money can buy people.

1373
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 3: How does he have that much money too? How did

1374
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 3: people have he was a producer.

1375
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 2: He was money, I know, but like he's also a

1376
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 2: keen amounts of money being thrown out the window twenty

1377
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 2: four to seven. And you know, listen, some of these big,

1378
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 2: high profile people sometimes target really simple prey, right, So

1379
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 2: I think in both cases, maybe in you know, we've

1380
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 2: seen this in Epstein. Now we're seeing this potentially with Ditty,

1381
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 2: maybe even with Rex Humorman, the accused Long Island serial killer,

1382
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 2: kind of praying on either sex workers or you know,

1383
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 2: people who maybe he felt would never turn against him

1384
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 2: because you know, it was so high.

1385
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 3: Low and balancing.

1386
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 2: I'm glad women are getting there their moment at the

1387
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 2: speak it and speak up. Yeah, well, listen, we're going

1388
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 2: to continue to follow the Ditty trial Karen read obviously

1389
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 2: we shall see and also manifestos. We're talking on Monday,

1390
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 2: so make sure you join us. We're going to be

1391
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 2: here all week through Thursday. We've had awesome guests tonight also,

1392
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 2: so yeah, thank you again to Corey Abraham for joining us.

1393
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 2: Make sure you check out the documentary on Peacock Tuesday,

1394
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 2: June tenth. It's a must watch three hours to binge

1395
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 2: and of course to Robert Banfelder who literally wrote the book,

1396
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 2: if not actually he wrote several books on the Gilgo

1397
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,640
Speaker 2: Beach murders and he's essentially the guy. So thank you

1398
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 2: again for coming and we'll have them both back many

1399
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 2: times as that as an always Sunday through Thursday live

1400
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 2: for two hours. This is True Crime Tonight where we

1401
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 2: talk true crime all the time. Have a great night, everyone,