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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A Florida woman steals millions

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Speaker 1: from a Holocaust survivor. Can you even.

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Speaker 2: Imagine that the man lives through the Holocaust, goes through

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Speaker 2: life with all these horrible, horrible memories, alders his life forever,

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Speaker 2: and now he runs into this disaster.

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Speaker 1: And falls for her scam. The woman steals nearly three

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Speaker 1: million dollars of his life savings. Uh well, I've got

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Speaker 1: an update for you. She has had a date with

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Speaker 1: Lady Justice. And let me just tell you, Lady Justice

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Speaker 1: is not the one that got a black eye. I see, Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here

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Speaker 1: at faxination and series six sem one eleven. That's right,

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Speaker 1: a Florida woman who drained an eighty seven year old

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Speaker 1: Holocaust survivors life's savings by posing as a love interest

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Speaker 1: and then live the high life. That's right, living lavishly

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Speaker 1: off the two point eight million dollars she stole, just

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Speaker 1: got sentenced to over four years in prison. Take that woman.

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Speaker 1: Peachius Stergo thirty six of champions Gate, Florida was described

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Speaker 1: by the judge. It was Judge Edgardo Ramos. He described

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Speaker 1: her as quote unspeakably cruel and motivated by greed. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy she got jail time four years, but I

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Speaker 1: would like to have seen her and get the max

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Speaker 1: something you know, along the lines of twenty Not only

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Speaker 1: did she commit grand larceny, she he stole from a

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Speaker 1: senior citizen, which is in my mind to protect a

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Speaker 1: class and too, a victim that had already lived through

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Speaker 1: such a horrific, horrific ordeal that most people cannot even

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Speaker 1: begin to identify with leave living through the Holocaust. Oh

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Speaker 1: and now after all that, he meets up with Peachus Sturgo, Well,

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Speaker 1: number one, she's definitely going to help. Okay, that said,

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Speaker 1: I'd like her to have a little bit longer stay

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Speaker 1: at the penitentiary and route to supper with Satan. How

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Speaker 1: did the whole thing go down? First of all, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends. A crime online.

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Speaker 3: An eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor living in Manhattan

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Speaker 3: is enjoying a nice retirement when he decides to look

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Speaker 3: for some companionship online, someone nice, someone to pass the

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Speaker 3: time with. And he found her or did she find him?

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Speaker 3: It was a dating app that connected thirty six year

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Speaker 3: old Peaches Strgo with the eighty seven year old, wealthy,

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Speaker 3: retired gentleman. Stergo finds the man easy to talk to

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Speaker 3: and he looks forward to chatting with her. Then one

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Speaker 3: day she shares a small problem with him. She was

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Speaker 3: in an accident a while back, and the lawyer that

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Speaker 3: represented her is now demanding to be paid before he

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Speaker 3: will release her funds. She wasn't asking for the money,

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Speaker 3: just alone to pay the lawyer. She would pay him

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Speaker 3: as soon as she accessed her money. He asked where

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Speaker 3: to send it.

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Speaker 1: Wow, this woman, peaches Stgo aka Alice. She's playing the

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Speaker 1: long game. She's got her eye on the prize. This

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Speaker 1: scam took almost four years. So that's almost what almost

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Speaker 1: a million dollars a year, seven hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars per year that she steals from a Holocaust survivor

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Speaker 1: take a listen to more from Sydney Summer.

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Speaker 3: The conversations with Stgo and her octogenarian friend continue. Stergo

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Speaker 3: tells her gentleman friend that the money has been deposited

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Speaker 3: in her TD bank account. Oddly enough, there's a small

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Speaker 3: problem with her TD bank account and she needs a.

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Speaker 1: Little more money.

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Speaker 3: If she doesn't get the money soon, her account will

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Speaker 3: be frozen, and not only will she lose her money,

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Speaker 3: but she also won't be able to pay back her

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Speaker 3: gentleman friend. She really wants to make sure she pays

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Speaker 3: him back, so he writes another check.

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Speaker 1: This poor guy, eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor living

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Speaker 1: by himself, lonely, goes online to make a friend, and he,

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Speaker 1: of all people, finds Alice Peach's stergo joining me in all

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Speaker 1: Star panel to make sense of what we know of this,

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Speaker 1: but first straight out to crimeoonline dot Com investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: Dave Met Dave I was noticed saying the way Sidney

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Speaker 1: Somner was explaining it that she has this online conversation

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Speaker 1: going and they talk on the phone as well, and

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Speaker 1: they send pictures, so he's got a picture of who

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Speaker 1: he thinks is a beautiful woman talking to him. And

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Speaker 1: then after weeks have passed, then suddenly out goes the hook.

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Speaker 1: She says she has a small problem, a small problem

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Speaker 1: regarding an accident that happened a while back. Now the

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Speaker 1: lawyer wants money, totally believable, so she basically, you know,

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Speaker 1: wraps him up in a cocoon of complacency and then bam, puts.

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Speaker 4: Out the hook you mentioned early on the Long Con.

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Speaker 4: You said it, and you're dead on right.

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Speaker 1: What she does.

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Speaker 4: She paints herself as a double victim. She was in

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Speaker 4: a car accident and she was hurt bad enough that

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Speaker 4: she had to get a lawyer to go after a

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Speaker 4: settlement money and the lawyer apparently won. But she's still

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Speaker 4: the victim because now the lawyer says, well, I'm not

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Speaker 4: freeing up your money until I get paid. So she

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Speaker 4: is able to present this gentleman who look, he's looking

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Speaker 4: you mentioned he's lonely, he's looking for a friend. And

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Speaker 4: in reality, when you are talking about somebody who's got

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Speaker 4: a couple of million dollars, twenty five thousand probably doesn't

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Speaker 4: sound like that much, not like does to me. And

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Speaker 4: the way she pitches it is pay this money is

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Speaker 4: already here. All I've got to do is borrow it

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Speaker 4: from you so I can get all of mine and

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Speaker 4: then I'll pay you right back. That's the hook and

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Speaker 4: that's the carrot, all at the same time, and.

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about the scam that she pulled on

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Speaker 1: this guy. Deve mag joining me crimeonline dot Com investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter also with me Debbie Montgomery Johnson a real life

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Speaker 1: victim of cyber love. She's now an international speaker, best

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Speaker 1: selling author, victim's advocate, and founder of The One Behind

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Speaker 1: the Smile at the Woman behind the Smile dot com. Debbie,

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Speaker 1: what happened to you?

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Speaker 5: Similar? But not the same? I mean, it was as

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Speaker 5: long as our last gentleman said, it was a long time.

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Speaker 5: It actually happened after my husband passed away suddenly, and

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Speaker 5: I went online because do to friends saying get a life.

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Speaker 5: They wanted me after six months afterlud died. They said,

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Speaker 5: get a life, you know, get out and put yourself

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Speaker 5: out there. And I thought online dating then was safe.

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Speaker 5: It was safer than doing it in person. I'd been

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Speaker 5: married twenty six years and I wasn't ready for somebody

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Speaker 5: in the house. But I did want a friend, just

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Speaker 5: as this gentleman he wanted a friend. Men particularly are

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Speaker 5: subjective to the white Knight syndrome, kind of like he

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Speaker 5: wanted to take care of her, and I wanted my

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Speaker 5: guy to take care of me. But you know, I

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Speaker 5: didn't give willingly to get him out of trouble. Obviously.

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Speaker 5: I was helping his company, his business, and I was

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Speaker 5: assured also being paid back, and so it's not it's

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Speaker 5: not aimed at people who necessarily lonely. In this case,

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Speaker 5: this is elder fraud, and that gentleman was lonely. He

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Speaker 5: was by himself. And I always say be aware, you know,

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Speaker 5: be aware of what family are doing, what your friends

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Speaker 5: are doing, and listen to them, watch them. I wonder

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Speaker 5: you know, his son found out about this later on,

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Speaker 5: but who was watching him write sixty two checks? Where

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Speaker 5: was the bank?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 5: And the biggest thing I want here is is we

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Speaker 5: all look at it like eighty seven year old man

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Speaker 5: Holocauster Biber, Yeah, that's bad. But you've got sixty year

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Speaker 5: old women, seventy year old women, eighty year old women

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Speaker 5: being taken every single day around the globe. And we

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Speaker 5: look at these women as, oh, that was really stupid

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Speaker 5: of them. Would they do that? There's no victim blame here.

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Speaker 5: This is pure manipulation. She is a criminal and she

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Speaker 5: has gone after this gentleman and just ripped his heart out,

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Speaker 5: ripped his home away from him. And you know, or

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Speaker 5: I'd put her. But it happens every single day to

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Speaker 5: people just like you and me.

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Speaker 1: How much money were you scammed out of Debbie.

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Speaker 5: Over two years, I lost a million a million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Oh dear Lord in heaven, and the guy said that. Actually,

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Speaker 1: let's hear it in Debbie's own words in Our Cup

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Speaker 1: forty three, speaking to CBS, I wasn't lonely.

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Speaker 7: Desperate, lonely. I really I wanted someone to talk to.

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Speaker 1: Debbie Montgomery.

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Speaker 8: Johnson signed up for an online dating service after the

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Speaker 8: sudden death of her husband, Lou in twenty ten.

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Speaker 7: I thought, well, that's safe. I can do it from

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Speaker 7: my home.

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Speaker 8: That's where the widowed mother of I met a British

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Speaker 8: businessman who called himself Eric Cole.

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Speaker 7: I talked to him a few times. I mean we

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Speaker 7: messaged every day.

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Speaker 8: Johnson says she and Cole engaged in a two year

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Speaker 8: online relationship, but never met in person.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of their.

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Speaker 8: Relationship, Johnson says she gave Cole more than a million

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Speaker 8: dollars in increments.

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Speaker 7: At this point, your heart rules your head, and I

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Speaker 7: was doing what my heart wanted me to do.

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Speaker 8: In twenty twelve, Johnson says her life stopped when Cole

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Speaker 8: came clean over video chat review who he really was.

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Speaker 8: A young man in Nigeria bas.

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Speaker 7: Smallest face can we keep this going, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 7: can we keep this going? Are you out of your mind?

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Speaker 1: Can we keep this thing going? And keep this scam going?

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Speaker 1: Is what he meant to say. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: Oh please. When given a chance to speak, peach Stergo

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Speaker 1: thirty six Florida, said, I'm sorry. Really, this woman admitt

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Speaker 1: she drained the life savings of a man she met

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Speaker 1: on a dating website. The poor guy's eighty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: He's on a dating website. Okay, give him credit for

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Speaker 1: being the eternal optimist. But instead of meeting a nice

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Speaker 1: lady to date and go have dinner with or whatever

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Speaker 1: they're gonna do, he meets this woman a con artist.

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Speaker 1: Will she got her come up? It's in court, but

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Speaker 1: he's never going to get his money back. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut three.

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Speaker 3: Strugo continues to have emergencies and a lot of bad luck.

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Speaker 3: She seeks advice from her occagenarian friend, sharing emails from Tdbank,

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Speaker 3: official letters from a TD Bank employee, as well as

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Speaker 3: invoices to show that she is trying to get things

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Speaker 3: paid off so she can get her money freed up.

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Speaker 1: When that's done, she tells.

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Speaker 3: The retiree she can pay him back, but now the

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Speaker 3: man doesn't have any more to give and he calls

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Speaker 3: his son for help. A few years ago, he had

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Speaker 3: enough money to live a financially worry free retirement, and

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Speaker 3: now he's going to lose his apartment.

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Speaker 1: Losing everything. Joining me Jeffrey Wolf, Denver based cyber crime lawyer,

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Speaker 1: founder and manager of Wolf Law Colorado dot com. Jeffrey,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You know, it's not

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Speaker 1: hard at all. It's not difficult to fake an official

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Speaker 1: looking bank statement or an American Express email. I remember

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Speaker 1: almost got taken in by an email. It looks just

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Speaker 1: like American Express emails, except it said something that didn't

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Speaker 1: make sense to me, and you know it always says

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Speaker 1: click here, and then you get a ton of malware.

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Speaker 1: Before I clicked, I read it again and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this just isn't right, This isn't the way my account

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Speaker 1: would normally be. And it turns out it was fake.

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Speaker 1: But I was always impressed by the fraudster's ability to

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Speaker 1: fake such a legitimate looking American Express email. So here's

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Speaker 1: an eighty seven year old guy living alone and this

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Speaker 1: woman pieces Strugo sends him letters from her bank, letters

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Speaker 1: from credit cards and lawyers, and they all look look real.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 10: That ends up being part of the fraud in these

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Speaker 10: cases is that somebody who you have a genuine relationship with,

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Speaker 10: who needs money from you, doesn't feel the need to

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Speaker 10: send you proof that they need it. That is lying,

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Speaker 10: one oh one. The more somebody talks, the more they're lying,

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Speaker 10: the more proof that they're saying they can show you,

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Speaker 10: the more likely it is that they have fabricated that.

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Speaker 10: And so I tell anyone who's dealing with anything online

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Speaker 10: that you always want to make sure that you are

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Speaker 10: only dealing financially with people you know, that you are

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Speaker 10: only dealing with portals and websites, that you know that

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Speaker 10: you're never taking anybody's word for it. You're never responding

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Speaker 10: to emails, You pick up the phone, you call the

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Speaker 10: number on the back of your credit card when your

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Speaker 10: bank emails you, because then you know you're talking to

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Speaker 10: them and not whoever has emailed you. And it's no

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Speaker 10: different than when you're looking at one of these romance

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Speaker 10: cons is that the more proof they're trying to give you,

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Speaker 10: the more likely it is that some or all of

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Speaker 10: it is fraud.

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Speaker 1: Almost every joining me right now. Is the Queen of

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Speaker 1: body language interpretation, Susan Constantine. She can spot a lie

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Speaker 1: a mile away. Deception is her specialty. She's president of

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Speaker 1: the Human Behavior Academy. Oh my goodness, I can just

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Speaker 1: imagine that cocktail party, everybody watching each other as they

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Speaker 1: move around the room. Author of How to Spot a

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Speaker 1: Liar and seven seconds or left, she says Susanconstantine dot com.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go to your party, Okay, as

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Speaker 1: if I was going to be invited, But Susan Constantine,

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Speaker 1: with all those body language experts at the Human Behavior Academy,

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Speaker 1: Oh dear Susan, I never thought of it till Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: just said it. That when people suddenly start trying to

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Speaker 1: offer you proof of the claim of their request when

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Speaker 1: you didn't ask them for it. True.

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Speaker 11: And so that's one of the clues that people will

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Speaker 11: give you unsolicited information. They will give you a lot

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Speaker 11: of additional information without actually asking answering the question. So

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Speaker 11: anytime we hear or I hear additional extraneous information, that

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Speaker 11: is a really big red flag because they're what they're

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Speaker 11: trying to do is convince you and to try to

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Speaker 11: gain your trust. When they don't feel confident themselves. They

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Speaker 11: keep on going until they feel that they have convinced

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Speaker 11: you before they'll go on to the next subject.

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Speaker 1: Susan Constantine, give me some tips, okay, Karen Stark, renowned

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. I want you to

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Speaker 1: take all this in percolate. Okay, then for me the

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Speaker 1: perfect cup of analysis. Okay, Susan Constantine. What should we

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Speaker 1: look for when we're looking for lies?

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Speaker 11: Okay, So when we were looking for lies, we're looking

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Speaker 11: for incongruencies between what they say and well, if in

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Speaker 11: this case they didn't get to this person didn't get

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Speaker 11: to know them, you know, in person. But in the

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Speaker 11: real world, what we're looking for incongruencies. We're looking for

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Speaker 11: differences between what they say in their body language. They're

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Speaker 11: not congruent. So anytime you ever see any sort of

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Speaker 11: shift or deviation from there, that is always a red

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Speaker 11: flag for me. The other thing is they want to

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Speaker 11: build your trust very quickly. They really in build themselves

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Speaker 11: very quickly and rapidly into your life. They are very likable, approachable,

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Speaker 11: they are easily to get to know. They build your

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Speaker 11: trust very easily, and those are really big clues for me.

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Speaker 11: So language is a big one. They generally don't put

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Speaker 11: their own name into it. They eliminate pronouns like I, me,

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Speaker 11: and my. Those are the really big red flags. They

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Speaker 11: tend to use third person pronouns like they, them and

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Speaker 11: those guys. They use a lot of red verbal red

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Speaker 11: hearings which I could go into and for a long time.

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Speaker 11: But they use third person gimmicks, They use loophole, line,

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Speaker 11: they use a lot of these different techniques to be

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Speaker 11: able to gain your trust and and also too when

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Speaker 11: you're looking at their body language. You know, oftentimes we

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Speaker 11: say they don't make eye contact with you. Well that's

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Speaker 11: not true, because they tend to really lock eyes with you.

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Speaker 11: Their eye tends to kind of move or jog around

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Speaker 11: and really not assign a deception, but rather look for

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Speaker 11: these little micro movements, you know, where they're a little

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Speaker 11: one side of their shoulder will shrug a little bit.

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Speaker 11: They'll have a smirk or a smile or a laugh

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Speaker 11: or popping out of air when they're talking at the

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Speaker 11: end of the sentence, or maybe at the end of

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Speaker 11: their sentence, they'll raise their pitch. So any kind of

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Speaker 11: vocal clues, vocal tremors that are kind of off their baseline.

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Speaker 11: Those are all indications of deception.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 1: One thing I want to mention Susan Constantine, author of

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Speaker 1: How to Spot a Liar in Seven Seconds or Less. Susan,

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Speaker 1: I think some of their discussions were over zoom or

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Speaker 1: FaceTime because he is in Manhattan and she's in Florida,

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Speaker 1: so I think he did get to see her. But

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Speaker 1: of course, he's eighty seven years old. He's been through

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Speaker 1: h DOUBLEL and back. As I mentioned, he's a Holocaust survivor,

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Speaker 1: which may have played into some of his feelings of

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Speaker 1: loneliness and abandonment and looking for comfort. Of course, I'm

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Speaker 1: just a JD, not an MD or shrink like some

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Speaker 1: of you guys. But him being alone in his apartment

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan, surrounded by millions of people, but not really

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Speaker 1: knowing anyone. Well, take a listen to what happens when

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Speaker 1: he finally calls his son. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut four.

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Speaker 3: When the eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor's son gets involved,

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Speaker 3: It isn't long before he reaches out for help. The

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Speaker 3: United States Justice Apartment investigates and finds out that Peaches Sturgo,

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Speaker 3: who friends sometimes called Alice didn't get the money from

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Speaker 3: an injury settlement. There was never any injury or lawyer.

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Speaker 3: The email address was fake, and so were the official

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Speaker 3: looking documents from TD Bank. It was all a fraud.

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Speaker 3: But while the old man lost his life savings and

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Speaker 3: had to give up his apartment, was living large with

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Speaker 3: his life savings while her old friend is losing his apartment.

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Speaker 3: Stgo lives in a gated community and owns a condo,

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Speaker 3: numerous cars, a boat, and she spends thousands of his

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Speaker 3: dollars on designer clothing in vacations at the Ritz Carlton and.

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Speaker 1: To our Cuts five and six are friends at Fox

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Speaker 1: thirty five.

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Speaker 12: Investigators says Stgo's actions forced the victim to lose his home.

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Speaker 12: All the while, they believe Sergo was using that money

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Speaker 12: to buy cars, boats, and even a home right here

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Speaker 12: in Central Florida. Beach's Alice Stergo is accused of stealing

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Speaker 12: two point eight million dollars from an eighty seven year

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Speaker 12: old Holocaust survivor. Investigators believe the two men on a

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Speaker 12: dating app in twenty seventeen. They say, not long after

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Speaker 12: the fraud began.

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Speaker 1: Their creativity does no bound.

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Speaker 12: Investigators believe stgo repeatedly lied to the victim, convincing him

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Speaker 12: into sending her fifty thousand dollars a month. The indictment

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Speaker 12: states she made the victim believe that her bank needed

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Speaker 12: more money, or her account we'd freeze and she'd lose

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Speaker 12: it all. Out of fear of losing his money, the

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Speaker 12: victim sent sixty two checks worth over two point eight

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Speaker 12: million dollars.

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Speaker 1: How did this woman steal nearly three million dollars from

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Speaker 1: an old man? Not just an old man, an old

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Speaker 1: man that survived the Holocaust. A judge was not sympathetic

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Speaker 1: when he heard her story, sentencing her to four years

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Speaker 1: behind bars. Frankly, I don't think that was enough, but

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Speaker 1: at least he didn't give her straight probation that could

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Speaker 1: happen in many jurisdictions. This is what happened. Joining me

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Speaker 1: right now, John Muffler, former Chief inspector for the US

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Speaker 1: Marshall Service. You can find him at Equitossglobalsecurity dot com. John.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, John. How do the

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Speaker 1: FEDS track her down? Because this is clearly wire fraud.

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Speaker 1: She's using the phone, she's using the computer, she's getting

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Speaker 1: financial trends actions across state lines, and that's how the

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Speaker 1: FEDS get a hold of you. She's in Florida, he's

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Speaker 1: in New York. These fraudulent transactions used wire which is

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Speaker 1: like bank transactions or credit card transactions and checks financial transfers.

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Speaker 1: But how do they find her? How can they track

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Speaker 1: her down? John?

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Speaker 9: You know, this information is all trackable because it's all

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Speaker 9: the electronic communications, bank accounts, social media, correspondence, phone calls,

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Speaker 9: all that's very easily trackable. I imagine they have a

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Speaker 9: very lengthy list of not just the crime, but potentially

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Speaker 9: other victims as well. I can't imagine she came out

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Speaker 9: of nowhere to begin her first act as a con

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Speaker 9: artist with this particular victim.

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Speaker 1: But I mean physically, how do you do it? I

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Speaker 1: mean you've got accounts that she's said having the money,

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Speaker 1: where is being deposited? And then so what you go

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Speaker 1: to the bank and you get an idea of whose

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Speaker 1: account that is and where they live? How do you

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Speaker 1: do it? How do you physically do it?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, you're looking at getting you know, the appropriate you know,

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Speaker 9: information to the courts for her particular bank information, her

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Speaker 9: social Security number, her data, birth information they'd be able

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Speaker 9: to get from her and then able to research through

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Speaker 9: the different credit bureaus where that money may be what's

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Speaker 9: connected to her. So again it takes takes some little

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Speaker 9: bit of due diligence on the agent's part, but I

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Speaker 9: think fairly easy to connect her name to you know,

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Speaker 9: the different accounts, and she's been using to deposit.

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Speaker 1: Wait until you hear how Peaches used this poor man's money.

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Speaker 1: Take a listnour cut nine W s H.

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Speaker 13: A Florida woman is facing federal charges after prosecutors say

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Speaker 13: she swindled an eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor out of.

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Speaker 1: Nearly three million dollars.

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Speaker 13: The man met thirty six year old Peaches Stirgo, also

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Speaker 13: known as Alice, on a dating website several years ago.

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Speaker 13: She used a variety of excuses to get him to

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Speaker 13: send her money, always with the promise that she would

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Speaker 13: pay him back now. Instead, we're told she used that

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Speaker 13: money to buy a home in negated community, a condo,

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Speaker 13: a boat, and several cars, including a corvette. By the

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Speaker 13: time the man admitted to his son what he had done,

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Speaker 13: he'd given her his entire life savings.

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Speaker 1: Karen start joining me. High profile psychologist out of Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at karenstart dot com Karen with

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Speaker 1: a C. Karen. We heard earlier the so called White

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Speaker 1: Night complex. What happened here?

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Speaker 6: It's so heartbreaking, Nancy, because someone is taking advantage of somebody,

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Speaker 6: an elderly person, and that is what happened. They look

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Speaker 6: for people who are vulnerable, and so he he's looking

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Speaker 6: for a companion and has an instinct to want to help.

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Speaker 6: That's that White Knight. He wants to come in and

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Speaker 6: save her, and he doesn't realize he's being scammed. And

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Speaker 6: the thing that is most upsetting to me in situations.

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Speaker 1: Like this is that the person like this.

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Speaker 6: Gentleman, he doesn't think to get in touch with his family,

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Speaker 6: He doesn't think to ask anybody does this make sense?

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Speaker 6: Or can you look at what I'm doing? And nobody knows.

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Speaker 1: To check on him.

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Speaker 6: And so someone who has been through the worst that

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Speaker 6: anybody can possibly imagine, also card experience, is now being

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Speaker 6: scammed out of all of his money because he's a

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Speaker 6: good person and the least he's helping somebody.

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Speaker 1: And what this woman spent the money on multiple rolex watches,

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Speaker 1: a boat, two cars, luxury items, expensive jewelry, pocketbooks, you

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Speaker 1: name it. What does that say to you, Susan Constantine.

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Speaker 11: Tells me that she's a con and she's a scammer,

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Speaker 11: and this is all about her. So, you know, I

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Speaker 11: think that she became very obsessive about it once she

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Speaker 11: found that she really got a good fish on her hook,

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Speaker 11: and she was all how easy it was for her

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Speaker 11: to be able to gain more of his trust. Then

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Speaker 11: the more that fueled her, so the more it fueled

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Speaker 11: that narcissism in her. She felt she could she was invincible,

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Speaker 11: so she could still still continue to take from him

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Speaker 11: and ask money because she knew that she knew exactly

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Speaker 11: what his triggers were, she knew how to work those

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Speaker 11: triggers for her advantage, and that's that's how she got

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Speaker 11: the money.

435
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: Guys, what are some red flags we can look out for?

436
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: Take a listen now cut seven.

437
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,719
Speaker 3: There's typically a sense of urgency and some reason why

438
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: the money changed has to continue.

439
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,239
Speaker 12: Experts say romance fraud crimes like this are on the

440
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 12: rise nationwide and are affecting people of all ages. Experts

441
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 12: say scams like this are preventable.

442
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: If they feel to be told the only way to

443
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 3: get their money back is by investing additional funds.

444
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 1: A huge red flag. The only way to get the

445
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: money back is to spend more money. That is a

446
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: huge red flag. And I think part of it to

447
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: Debbie Montgomery Johnson, who was herself a cyber victim now

448
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: an international speaker, is that he didn't want to tell

449
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: his children, his son what he had done because he

450
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: probably knew that some would disapprove of a relationship with

451
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: a much much younger woman in another state that he

452
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: was loaning money to, So he probably didn't want that judging.

453
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 5: Well, that's absolutely true, Nancy. And I know when my

454
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 5: kids said, Mom, don't, don't don't, I think, hey, I'm

455
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 5: the adult here, leave me alone, and I shut them out.

456
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 5: And that's exactly what the woman, or a part of

457
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 5: me cannot believe that she did this by herself, because

458
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 5: typically they work in groups. This is very involved in

459
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 5: what she did here. But she actually got him to

460
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 5: to not talk about it. And that's what the scammers,

461
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 5: the criminals do, is they said, don't listen to those people.

462
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: You know, I'm going to take care of you. I'm

463
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 5: there for you, and I'll make sure that you get

464
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 5: your money back, typically with interest, you know. But they

465
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 5: isolate because they don't want you to listen to anybody else,

466
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 5: just them, And that's devastating when it all falls apart,

467
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 5: because now you've isolated yourself from friends and family who

468
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 5: could have helped, would have helped, but didn't know what

469
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 5: was going on, and that's part of the con.

470
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: So, Debbie Montgomery, when you were victimized online and lost

471
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: a million dollars to the scam artist, why is it

472
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 1: you did not want your family to know what was.

473
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 5: Happening because I was home alone. I was you know,

474
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 5: I was the leew had died and I was working

475
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 5: my company from the house, and I didn't want to

476
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 5: bring the kids into it because when they started being

477
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 5: the naysayers, I felt like, it's not any of their business.

478
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 5: They weren't living here. My youngest was here, but my

479
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 5: oldest was. My older three were out of the house,

480
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 5: they had lives of their own, and actually it was

481
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 5: it was It was very go see intoxicating. I'm not

482
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 5: a drinker, but I loved the feeling that I got

483
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 5: when I was involved because I felt like young again.

484
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 5: I felt like I was desirable again. It was very

485
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 5: interesting the emotions that go on when you're in the

486
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 5: middle of this and you don't see the red flags.

487
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 5: I looked back and call them pink flags now. But

488
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 5: those red flags weren't hard red flags. And when my

489
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 5: kids wanted to say, Mom, don't, I'm like, just leave

490
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 5: me alone. I'm okay, you know I was. I was

491
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 5: not a dummy. I was well and I'm well trained,

492
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 5: well educated. I had a good company, and I didn't

493
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 5: need my children, who I thought, you know, they were

494
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 5: good kids. But it said, I don't need you to

495
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 5: tell me what to do right now, and I shut

496
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 5: them out. And that's what happens, and that's what the

497
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 5: scammer's bank on and they they're laughing their way to

498
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 5: the bank because you you are home alone now and

499
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: you are left by yourself with no one to support you,

500
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 5: even though you've done it, basically done that to yourself.

501
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 5: You isolated yourself from family because of the encouragement of

502
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 5: this cameras Dave.

503
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: Mag joining me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. What

504
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: are some of the things she purchased from the eighty

505
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: seven year old's life savings?

506
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: You know, Nancy, the one thing that really caught my attention,

507
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 4: and you pointed this out that while he had to

508
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 4: give up his apartment in Manhattan. She not only had

509
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 4: a house in a gated community, but she also bought

510
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 4: a condominium. So well, he lost everything and didn't have

511
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 4: a place to stay, she had two places to stay,

512
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 4: paid for it by him. She also bought a number

513
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: of cars. Noted was a Corvette, but also a white

514
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: twenty two Ram fifteen hundred pickoffs. Now I don't undert

515
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: I don't know the role types that there are. Not

516
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 4: my kind of thing. But she bought a Rolex, Oyster

517
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 4: perpetual day date forty with presidents bracelet, date just forty

518
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 4: one with j you Beilieve bracelet and a date just

519
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 4: forty one with Oyster bracelet and Roman numeral dial.

520
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: Are all of those Rolexes? Yeah, those are all three Rolexes. Well,

521
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: she bought three rolexes. You lost me on Oyster. She

522
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: bought three Rolexes. Good, ma'am. Correct me if I'm wrong,

523
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: Dave Mack. Did she buy expensive trips?

524
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 10: Yep?

525
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: Did she stay at places like the Ritz Carlton on

526
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: his money?

527
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 4: Yes she did.

528
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: Did she spend tens of thousands of dollars on expensive meals? Yes,

529
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: gold coins yeah, gold bars yes, jewelry yes, Relex watches. Yes,

530
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: designer clothing from stores like Tiffany, Ralph, Lauren Neiman, Marcus

531
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: lous Viaton.

532
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 9: Yes.

533
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I can't claim credit for knowing all that because

534
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: I am reading directly from the indictment against her. Peaches

535
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: Stergo aka Alice Time Stories with Nancy Grace, Welcome Back, everybody.

536
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: Peaches Sturgos is definitely going to hell. But Interrout, I

537
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: would like to see her do a twenty year stint

538
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: behind bars for draining the life savings of an eighty

539
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: seven year old Holocaust survivor posing as an online love interest. Ough, well,

540
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: you got four years behind bars. That's better than nothing.

541
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: I'll take it. Susan Constantine joining me, body language expert

542
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: specializing in deception, author of How to Spot a Liar

543
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: in Seven Seconds or Less Online? What are the alarm

544
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: signs that you advise people to search for when they

545
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: are communicating?

546
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 11: Sure, so, one of the things that I've not is

547
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 11: just my self, is first of all, the inconsistency with

548
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 11: these photographs. A lot of times are a photographs when

549
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 11: you're looking at the different photographs between he or she

550
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 11: with look to see how they are communicating, and there

551
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 11: what photos they've actually put up on the internet, and

552
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 11: what the story they're trying to tell, you'll see start

553
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 11: to see some inconsistency. A lot of times they'll be

554
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 11: just like a little round, little picture of themselves and

555
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 11: then they'll keep repeating it over and over and over again.

556
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 11: And usually they're in military, where they're some high official

557
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 11: someone that is like unobtainable for the average person. The

558
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 11: other thing is that I look for too, is in

559
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 11: their language. There's always a cutt and taste piece of it.

560
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 11: So when you're looking at how they actually praise words,

561
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 11: they'll have misspelled words, which is incongruent with, of course

562
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 11: their educational level, et cetera. And then they'll pop in

563
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 11: a piece that is like in doesn't even make sense.

564
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 11: You can tell that they're not very well educated. So

565
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 11: those are big sign for me, and that they tend

566
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 11: to really build up the person. They speak about things

567
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 11: that are the romance side of them, things that they

568
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 11: find what they'd want to do with their partners, the

569
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 11: you know, the long beaches blocks and the sunsets and

570
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 11: the dinners and all this kind of things, which is

571
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 11: kind of enticing for our lonely purpose. On the other end,

572
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 11: events that they've never met before. One of the things

573
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 11: that I always recommend that they do. Number One, do

574
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 11: your background check on them. Take the name in there

575
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 11: and start to look there. They can go right and

576
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 11: truth Finder and see who this guy is. See where

577
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 11: there's a new photographs of the person. I've caught more

578
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 11: people just even on that, which is a commercial website,

579
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 11: and found scammers on it many.

580
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: Times over truth finder dot com. Yep, that's it.

581
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 9: Can I jump in and add something there?

582
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: Yes, go ahead, please?

583
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

584
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 9: I've heard charm and niceness a few times during the conversation,

585
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 9: especially from the victims that have participated in the call.

586
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 9: But you know, to add what she just said is,

587
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 9: you know, think of think of it as you know,

588
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 9: charm and niceness is not a credential for good intent, right,

589
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 9: So that is not is not a it's not a

590
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 9: character trait. So you got to think of it that way.

591
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 9: I mean, she's just said than done. But for victims,

592
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 9: if they're hearing such charmingness niceness, there's a reason for that.

593
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 9: That's a big red flag I would add to that list.

594
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: Also, So guys, let me ask John Muffler or Jeffrey Weill.

595
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: I'll start with you, John, how do we get this

596
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: victim's money back?

597
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 9: That money that she is stolen from the victim, you

598
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 9: know that will be resold and you know he will

599
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 9: be able to get some of that money back. It's

600
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 9: probably not anywhere near the two point eight million that

601
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 9: was stolen from him, but he will be able to

602
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 9: recover some of that some of that.

603
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: And how do you go about doing that, Jeffrey.

604
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, Nancy, that's going to be through the restitution

605
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 10: process at the courthouse and the seizure powers of the

606
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 10: federal government when you commit a crime.

607
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: So one's never paying restitution, Okay, yes, she is.

608
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 10: It's going to be a part of her plea bargain.

609
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 10: They're going to seize her property.

610
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: Where you make the victim pay restitution, the victim is

611
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: already broke, so she's never paying anything out of her pocket.

612
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: What the state will have to do is seize all

613
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: of her assets, what they can find, what they can trace,

614
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: and the state gets it and sells it. She's never

615
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: going to willingly write a check to anybody. But how

616
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: do we go about tracking her accounts, getting those rolexes back,

617
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: finding the cars, selling the condos, selling the house, who

618
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: does all that the government.

619
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, absolutely, this is a federal case. So the Federal

620
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,959
Speaker 10: Bureau of Investigation in the Attorney General's office are going

621
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 10: to be in charge of tracking the money down, tracking

622
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 10: her assets down, seizing them under federal seizure laws, and

623
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 10: then selling them and then the proceeds will go to

624
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 10: this victim. That is the way the federal government is

625
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 10: going to work a case like this. So while she

626
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 10: may not write him a physical check because she's about

627
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 10: to go to prison, but she doesn't need to write

628
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 10: the check. The government's going to write him the check.

629
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 10: You're right that he may not get that almost three million.

630
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 9: Dollars that he's.

631
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 10: Out of pocket, but they have a lot of assets already.

632
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 10: We read in the indictment the assets that they have

633
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 10: already seized. He is going to get a lot of

634
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 10: money back. And he darn well should get all that

635
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:31,399
Speaker 10: money back.

636
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 1: I hope so so. Debbie Montgomery Johnson, a victim of

637
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: cyber crimes now international speaker. Bottom line, what's your advice?

638
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 5: And beware and be aware. And I can't say that

639
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 5: this man is going to be lucky, but he is

640
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 5: going to get his money back most most, if not all,

641
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: of the victims or survivors that I work with have

642
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 5: gotten nothing back because you can't you can't find the money.

643
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 5: It's gone overseas. So I just watch out for those

644
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 5: red flags. If it seems to be too good to

645
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 5: be true, than it probably is. Do a like I

646
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 5: love to do the background check. When my brothers told

647
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 5: me to do that, I said, don't be ridiculous. This

648
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 5: is a dating person, But do a reverse search on pictures,

649
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 5: get a dating buddy, get someone to help you out,

650
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 5: because you know your your heart rules your head and

651
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 5: your endorphins takeover and you don't want to listen to logic.

652
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 5: And as the fellow said here, yeah, looking back behind

653
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 5: Plays twenty twenty. When you're in the middle of it,

654
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 5: you can't see what's happening. You can't. You're feeling. You

655
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 5: feel it what you like. You want it to be true,

656
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 5: and you will make it true until it crashes and

657
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 5: burns and people lose everything. They lose all their money,

658
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 5: they lose their homes. Many of the women I've known

659
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 5: have lost their lives and that is just devastating. And

660
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 5: this is elder abuse at its prime.

661
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: Karen Stark. But you also have to check our own ego.

662
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: When you are an eighty seven year old man, what

663
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: do you think a thirty six year old woman is

664
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: interested in? You know, let's make it. Let's take it

665
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: away from this victim. My husband had a friend in college,

666
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: perfectly normal, wonderful wife, wonderful marriage. He goes to some

667
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: guy event, to a strip club. I've told you this

668
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: falls for a stripper. By the time she's through with him,

669
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: he has sent her son through private school for like

670
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: seven or eight years, got him set up for college.

671
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: He's lost his entire bank account. He was like a stockbroker.

672
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: He loses his job because he went bankrupt, and he

673
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: loses his marriage, and then she dumped him. Now you

674
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: have to ask yourself, why does this person want me?

675
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: And that's a hard question when you want to believe

676
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: they love you.

677
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 6: And I think that's what you are describing. And I

678
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 6: had encountered with the people that I work with, is

679
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 6: that it's so difficult to get somebody to attention to

680
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 6: that that to say to somebody who maybe seven years old,

681
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 6: you know, why would this young woman be oneting you've

682
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 6: been They are so excited about the idea that there

683
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 6: is someone who wants to and there's a whole fantasy

684
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 6: aspect that takes control. And as your guests pointed out,

685
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 6: I mean, you are so embroiled in it and excited

686
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 6: about the idea that somebody loves you that it's very

687
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 6: hard to be logical, which is what you're talking about.

688
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: Let's see how quickly pages Stargut is let out from

689
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: behind bars. I hope not one day early. Nancy Grace

690
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,