WEBVTT - Trump CHOOSES War With Iran + Jake Tapper On PROBLEM With Electing Older Leaders Like Biden & Trump 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.080 Happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Todcast. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:13.640 Obviously a pretty momentous weekend as far as America's national 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:16.560 security is concerned. I'm going to get to that in 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:17.840 a second. I just want to give you a quick 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.120 rundown of what to expect on this episode. So I've 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.799 got a couple things to say about the current situation 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:28.000 in the Middle East, a little preview on New York 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.880 City mayor, which I think this primary could be the 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.640 most consequential Democratic primary until twenty twenty eight, believe it 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:39.200 or not as far as the Democratic Party's brand is concerned. 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:42.760 Then I have an interesting interview with a longtime pal 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.800 and co author of the book Original Sin. It's Jake Tapper. 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.440 And then after that we'll do a few questions, and 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.840 I got a little family update I want to share 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.240 with you at the very end, But let me begin 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.920 with what happened on Saturday. So let's start with the obvious. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.880 This is one of those moments that's still hard to 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.920 process in real time. I think most people, regardless of ideology, 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.160 are going to wish this operation against Iran turns out 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.520 to be a success. I count myself among those who 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.040 do but I'm also among those who are deeply uneasy 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.920 with this decision, because what if we just opened a 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.440 door we can't close. Let me back up for a 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.840 moment and remind folks how we got here. For all 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.360 its failures, nuclear deterrence has actually worked more often than not. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.640 The number of countries with nuclear weapons is fairly limited, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.560 and in some cases we've actually seen nations abandon their 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:46.800 ambitions entirely. Brazil did South Africa, did Libya, And while 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.840 each case was different, the idea of preventing a nuclear 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.520 arms race in the Middle East has always been a 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.400 core tenet of global security strategy, not just the United 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:01.000 States that fear a nuclear Iran has haunted multiple US 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.000 presidents because if Iran go's nuclear, then so to Saudi Arabia, 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.960 and so to the Amritis. Egypt will want one, and 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.920 suddenly we're living in a new Cold War, but in 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:16.399 the hottest region on Earth. So yes, preventing Iran from 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:21.560 acquiring a nuclear weapon is a broadly supported objective, But 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.120 that's not the same thing as saying bombing is the 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.680 only or best way to achieve that goal. Let's not 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:32.840 kid ourselves. This was a choice. There's a famous question. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.880 One of my predecessors that meet the Press once put 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.160 to George W. Bush about the Iraq War a war 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.440 of necessity or a war of choice. It was a 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.320 question that he never fully answered, but in hindsight, it 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.400 certainly looks like it was a war of choice. This 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.960 decision was a choice. There were other ways to go. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.639 President Trump, though, now owns this choice. It is perhaps 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.359 the single most consequential decision he has made and may 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.480 make for either one of his terms as president. There 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.320 was no inminent threat. There wasn't even a preemptive strike. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:12.040 This was at best a preventative strike, and it's a 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.160 very risky one at that. Now, look, if there's one 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.880 constant in Trump's foreign policy instincts, it is this. He 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:24.320 believes in maximum pressure and minimal consultation. He thinks he 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.080 can air strike his way out of problems, and sometimes 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.520 I use the word airstrike metaphorically, like tariffs are kind 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.040 of his version of this. He thinks he can do 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.280 this economically, militarily, diplomatically, and maybe he can in an 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.360 instance or two. Many of us should hope he's right 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:44.840 about this one. I do, because the alternative could be 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.240 a hell of a lot worse. But this just isn't 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.840 a regional skirmish. This reverberates across the globe. Think about 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.760 the signal that sends to Ukraine. America is slow walking 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.960 its commitment there while fast tracking a bombing campaign in Iran. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.640 If your president Zelenski, you're just shaking your head. Now, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:10.400 if you're Vladimir Putin watching this unfold, you're thinking good. 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.880 The Americans are distracted, and we get to keep testing 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.479 the limits. America is going to be more focused on 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:21.120 that than us. And of course there's the supposed alliance 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.000 between Russia and Iran. But let's be honest. We've seen 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.160 some early rhetoric from Medvedev and some others. Russia is 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.120 not going to stick its neck out for Iran. Putin 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.520 is transactional, not fully ideological, and he knows he's got 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.359 the best US president he'll ever have when it comes 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:43.600 to his ambition in Ukraine. Why mess that up by 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.960 irritating him in Iran? Trust me, he does. He will 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.000 trade Iran for Ukraine in a heartbeat. And I don't 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.000 know if Tehran knows that yet. Iran may get some 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.839 rhetorical support that they got, but when it comes to 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.400 real resources. I have a feeling that going to be 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:05.320 on their own. We'll see. But if you're him, and 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.599 you know you're dealing with a bit of an erratic guy, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.840 and Donald Trump, do you want to test the limits? 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:17.840 And suddenly he's decided, Oh, I'll fully arm Ukraine, let's go. Meanwhile, 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.279 what kind of message is being sent to other countries 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.200 teetering on the nuclear threshold? North Korea built its arsenal, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.359 and like it or not, they secured kind of leverage. 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.719 They have their own nuclear umbrella that protects them. Libya 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.560 gave up its program back in the early two thousands, 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.479 and how long did Kadafi get to stay in power? 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.200 That history is not going to be lost on Iranian hardliners. 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.560 What if, in the under the guise of trying to 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.799 prevent Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon, we just sped 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:54.800 up their ambition. Just something to ponder here for a minute. Now, Look, 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.840 it's impossible to talk about this without acknowledging Israel's role. 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:59.800 And I know there's some folks out here who are 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.800 angry at Israel over how they've managed Gaza and how 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.720 they've dealt with the humanitarian crisis that's unfolding there. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:10.279 But two things can be true at the. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.760 Same time, that how they've handled Gaza and how they've 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.400 done the humanitarian aspect of this has been atrocious, and 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.800 at the same time it's a righteous cause to go 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.120 after Iran. Iran is not a good regime. These are 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:31.480 bad people, committed to doing bad things, committed to the eradication. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.600 The people do not share our values. They don't share 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.000 a lot of values with anybody who's high character. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.719 So look, that's just a fact. 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.920 But still Israel played a major role in cornering the 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.960 United States into this air strike. Israel's government has been 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.880 increasingly skeptical, if not hostile, to diplomacy with Iran. They 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.480 didn't like the first Iran agreement and they were petrified 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.440 Trump would do a similar agreement. And then you can't 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.440 ignore themestic political contests in Israel. The bombing occurred just 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.560 hours before Prime Minister in Natya, who was set to 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.320 face a no confidence vote where two of his furthest 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:14.880 right hardline parties were thinking about essentially bolting the coalition 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:21.920 and forcing an election. A coincidence perhaps, but the political 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:27.280 incentives for escalation are undeniable there for him. Look net Now, 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:29.600 whose views on Iran as an. He does view Iran 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.440 as an existential threat, and he sees this moment as 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.120 a rare opportunity. Iran is very weak internally divided, They've 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:41.040 lost key regional footholds in Syria and Lebanon. Israel, of course, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.400 couldn't get rid of the nukes on their own because 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.880 they didn't have that kind of weaponry. They needed US 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.200 muscle and they got it. And here's something that is 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.320 probably going to be an unpopular take with many of you. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:56.720 I believe it wouldn't have mattered who was US president. 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.560 I think this bombing campaign would have happened under Kamala 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.360 Harris presidency as well. Why do I think that The 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.480 only difference is and I talked with a few experts 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.360 on this, the only difference is, I don't think bb 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.360 waited sixty days. He gave Trump sixty days. I don't 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.280 think Bib was going to wait sixty days. But either way, 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.600 he was going to corner the next American president regardless 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.920 to sort of force. Because once Israel attacked Iran, there 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.280 was no pulling back, there was no amount they were 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.480 there was no diplomacy left to have. It wouldn't have 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.760 mattered if it was a President Harris or a President Trump, 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.400 and then the moment of truth would have come. And again, 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.760 this was a strategic you know, there's no doubt he was. 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.480 He was persuaded that this was a strategic opportunity that 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.880 any president that the previous presidents never had a chance 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.640 at having to attack Iran with no Hesbala to worry about, 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.959 to attack Iran with no none of theirs with with 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.560 with a sod already out of power. So these were 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.800 things that a Bush didn't have, an Obama didn't have, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.240 even a Biden didn't have. So I'm not saying it's 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.520 a guarantee that this happens under either presidency, but I 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.079 think it's more likely than many of you may realize 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.040 because of the circumstances, because Israel was going to force 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.880 the hand of the next American president regardless. They did 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.120 not view any sort of deal, sanctioned relief as anything 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.400 that was going to be helpful to them in the region, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.560 and they've been on the front line of these attacks 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.760 from Iran for a generation. Make no mistake, Okay, it 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.880 is two different things. Now, Look, what was in America's 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:41.640 best interest was not necessarily an Israel's best interest. But still, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.320 even if this mission was tactically successful, let's not pretend 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.800 we've solved this problem. We didn't bomb knowledge out of existence. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.040 We didn't erase blueprints or erase ambition. At best, we 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.960 delayed a program. At worst, we may have provoked something 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:02.040 we fully don't understand. On this and again the idea 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.840 that they could speed up now and in desperation try 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.280 to get something again with North Korea as the model. 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:10.520 There. 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.320 What was most striking though about Trump's remarks to the nation, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.680 and this is where I think he deserves a big 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.920 fat f for presidenting if you want a great amoun 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.960 being president. Those remarks after the strike were just vapid. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.920 They told us nothing. It was some sort of I 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:34.079 guess spiking of the football, but he didn't explain why 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.600 he did it. There was no rationale given. There was 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.640 no effort to explain the stakes, There was no attempt 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.120 to reassure allies. There was no vision for what comes next. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.760 There was a few vague lines about security, deterrence, strength, thanking, 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:51.600 the Israelis talking about teamwork, but make the case. Look, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.560 this is not an easy call. A majority of this 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.320 country did not think this was a good idea, so 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.680 you should at least make the case. And the fact 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.280 that he didn't do that, I mean this is Look, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.760 this is sort of par for the course for him, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.600 and the lack of making a case, he's actually created 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:12.960 a vacuum here because the absence of a narrative and 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:16.200 the absence of a clear rationale for doing this will 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.800 create confusion it already is, and that leads to fear, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.800 and that could create markets for misinformation and propaganda. But 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.520 of course this is a pattern. Trump often pursues goals 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.360 that might have a majority supporting him. For those goals, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.200 arrange and have a nuclear weapon, we should bring more 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:38.439 manufacturing back to America, we should reform government. But it's 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.080 the way he goes about this. They're reckless, they're opeg 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:46.480 and they're frankly destabilizing, whether it's Tariff's deportations, this military operation. 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.400 He does it with the assumption that the spectacle is 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:54.640 enough to justify the action, but the way he goes 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.160 about it makes it more unpopular than the initial goal was. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.040 So now what let's talk about the fallout. We'll thought 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:08.160 global and domestic first. The geopolitical risk asymmetric retaliation. Aroan 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.600 doesn't have the military strength for a conventional war, but 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.840 it can cause chaos throughout proxies, through proxies, cyber attacks, 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:22.480 and terrorism, and we could experience that in American cities. Washington, 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.880 d C, New York, LA. All three cities should be 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.800 on high alert again something the President of the United 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.880 States should have at least acknowledged the risk here, because 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.920 he alone made this decision, and he has now put 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.040 American lives, more American lives at risk today than we're 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:44.400 at risk yesterday. Second, there's a political risk, the silence 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.319 of Congress once again. Congress has been sidelined. The War 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:52.040 Powers Act is being tested again, if not outright ignored. Okay, 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.800 And while some Democrats are criticizing the Moon, many Republicans 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:59.440 are staying quiet. They're caught between what feels like their 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:04.120 traditional hawkish roots and of course their loyalty to Trump. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.720 But this is now Trump's war to manage, his chaos, 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:14.199 to contain, and his blowback to absorb. You know, it's funny. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:21.199 In two hundred days he has done what normally presidents 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.199 don't want to do in their first two hundred days. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.120 He has made it impossible to have to worry about 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.240 blaming a predecessor for anything. He has turned the economy 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.880 upside down with his tariffs. It is now the Trump economy, 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.880 for better or for worse. And now he has turned 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:42.640 essentially the war the world upside down. And he did it. 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.680 It was a choice. And ironically for a man who 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.280 professes America first and seems to tip his hat to 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.199 the isolationist history of the Republican Party that goes back 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:59.320 one hundred years, this is the action of somebody that 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:04.600 believes America should be the world's beat cop. Because that's 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.720 essentially that's about the only rationale you could give to 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.640 me that might persuade me why America had to do this? 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.720 Who else could do it but America? And who else 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:23.240 is looking out for the world but America. But every 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.520 time you ask the country whether they want America to 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.160 be the world's beat cop, the answer is usually a 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:33.360 resounding no. Now, I'm always one of those people that 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.800 actually is for it, some of you've heard me say before, 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.680 because I always say, if we're not the world's beat cop, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.880 somebody else is going to be and we're not going. 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:40.240 To like it. 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.480 But let's I do think the single most important question 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.640 he's got to answer to the American people is the following, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.200 Did this action make the world safer? 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.680 Did it make America safer? 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.320 Maybe in the long run we'll look back and say, yes, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.920 maybe this is a needed course correction, and this will 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:09.800 create new momentum to halt nuclear proliferation. But right now, 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.080 in the near term, it doesn't feel that way. What 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.400 it feels like is more instability, more uncertainty, and perhaps 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.160 more isolation for the United States. If you thought we 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.200 were unpopular before with the tariffs, where we threatened the 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:30.120 economic lives of not just Americans but everybody around the world, wait, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.440 do you see how we're received on this one. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:33.600 And here's one final thought. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.240 If this really was the only option left, if diplomacy 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.080 had truly failed, if every other path had been exhausted, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.120 then make that case to the American people. That's what 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.520 you use your remarks to the American people to do. 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.280 Don't treat this like a tweet, which it did. Don't 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.600 make it look like a reaction to Israel or a 0:15:53.600 --> 0:16:00.360 political ploy to distract from domestic failures. Own it, justify it. 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.800 He's owned it. I don't think he's given us a 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.960 good justification yet, And certainly he's not explained it to us, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.640 because if you can't do that, you're not leading at 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:20.360 this point, you're simply gambling. So look, it's a you know, 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.040 I do think I in my Newsphere show, which is 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.119 live right now on the Newsphere app. If you have subscribed, 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.280 I hope you have taken a trial and taken a look. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.560 I had three guests this week. One was Stephen Cook, 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.840 who's a member of the Council on fordin Relations, written 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.520 a terrific book about sort of the Middle East and Iran, 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.760 and we discussed what regime change could look like on there. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.800 It's a really good interview. I hope you take a 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.240 chance to listen to it. But he was the person 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.280 and we were talking quite a bit after our interview 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.600 about this, you know, how inevitable was this? And he 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:00.280 sort of concurs with me that this was what nothing 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.840 that that the it was certainly inevitable that the Israelis 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.560 were never going to stop at Iran and they weren't 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.680 going to take no from an American president on that. 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.280 On that front, my second of view was with Eric Swawa. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.639 He's a Democratic congressman represents the East Bay of the 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:21.680 Bay Area in California. H he has been, he has 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.840 served on the House Intelligence Committee, he himself ran for president, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.159 and he is somebody who is caught, I think, in. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:31.240 The middle here. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.639 He does not like how the President went about doing this, 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:39.160 and certainly also wants to see Iran stop from developing 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:40.000 a nuclear weapon. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:41.199 You know. 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.200 One of the things he talked with me about is 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.080 the challenge Democrats are going to have. He thinks there's 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.560 going to be bipartisan agreement that how how the White 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:56.320 House informed Congress was just awful, you know, And and 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.359 it certainly appears as if the President refused us to 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.080 work with Democrats, even when the law states that they 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.840 have to inform the entire Gang of Eight what they're doing, 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:11.359 including the Democratic ranking members of Intel Armed Services, that 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.720 Senate Democratic Leader in the House Democratic Leader. It appears 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.840 that they only told the Senate Democratic Leader because they 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.359 knew he'd be the most supportive Chuck Schumer of the 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:26.760 action against Iran, and didn't bother telling King Jeffreyes doesn't appear. 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.960 Mark Warner was told, who is the vice chair of 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.120 the Senate Intel Committee. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:30.600 Doesn't appear. 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.760 Jim Hins was told. You know, it's not just about protocol. 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.879 It's about that. And I know this is a quaint notion, 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.359 but you know, there was a time we all, at 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.000 least during the Cold War, that there was a belief 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.160 that politics you should try to at least stop politics 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:52.160 at the water's edge. But the irresponsibility of this administration 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:52.720 in their. 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:55.040 In their. 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.920 Constant whether I guess it's a grievance, but they pull 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.760 let a size everything and think that things that they're 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.080 supposed to do to keep Democrats informed of things, or 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.560 even work with a Democrat that has nothing to do 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.639 with a political election or anything, they just view it 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.159 as some sort of They view it with such animus. 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:16.600 It's not. 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.240 You know, again, the man didn't win fifty percent. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:20.480 Of the vote. 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.520 The inability to work with the other party, You're going 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.440 to pay a price at the next ballot box if 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.040 you continue to do this. So I think it's a 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.480 it's a terrible thing on there. We close our interview 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:32.480 talking about the future. 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:33.119 It was interesting. 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.760 Eric Swawell did have one what I would call alarmist 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.520 statement to me. He believes if Democrats don't win the 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.600 House and don't get any sort of foothold of power 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.119 in Washington after the twenty twenty six midterms that he 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:49.920 doesn't believe twenty twenty eight will be a free and 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:55.199 fair election. Like I said, it's a bit of an 0:19:55.240 --> 0:20:01.359 alarming statement. I'm not I'm certainly I'm I'm not going 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.760 to sit here and say he's being alarmist considering what 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.919 we've seen. You know, when anybody that's been a party 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.760 or had to deal with January sixth, on that day, 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.280 and I was anchoring live down there on Capitol Hill, 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.200 it is, you know, you can't ever rule anything out. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.080 But I'd like to think that it's going to be 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.200 extraordinarily hard to somehow not have a free and fair 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.080 election in this country. But I found that to be 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.040 a statement that I think is worth digesting and worth 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:35.400 hearing him in context for. 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:35.920 What it's worth. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.240 And my final conversation was with my friend Jonathan Martin 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.879 over at Politico, and he and I dove into the 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.760 New York City Democratic primary because that happens Tuesday of 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.080 this week. In fact, this will probably be the last 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.119 time you hear me until after we find out who 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.919 wins that primary. And because the bottom line is this, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.399 you know, here you have two I think if the 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.639 progressive movement could have picked who they wanted to be 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.680 their face in this mayor's rath would not have picked 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:01.760 Johan mam Donni. 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:03.000 And certainly if the. 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.360 Center left or the pro business or the establishment wing 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:10.280 of the Democratic Party, we're looking for an avatar in 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.440 a primary, the last person they would have chosen is 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.760 Andrew Cuomo. But here they have Cuomo and mom Donnie. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.960 I will tell you this the panic among the establishment 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:24.400 crowd if mom Donnie wins this primary, because he will 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.120 be the Democratic Party nominee. Now look, Andy Quomo's still 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.679 going to be on the ballot. Eric Adams, who's the 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.680 current mayor, is going to be on the ballot. There's 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.120 all sorts of different ballot lines. By the way, Mam 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.960 Donnie loses the primary, he's also I think I think 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:38.960 it's Working Families Party that he'll be on, But he's 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.080 going to have another ballot line that he's on. So 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.199 it's possible we have a four or five way general election. 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:46.520 You know, if you've ever dreamed of that, you know 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:48.280 I have. I think we're kind of a four party 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.520 system in reality, Well, we could have quite the chaos 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:59.280 on our hands. Andrew Cuomo, Eric Adams, Carlo Sliwa, who's 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:04.560 the founder of the Guardian Angels. And Curtis Leewah. Sorry 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:06.040 I was blanking on his name. I wanted to call 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.560 him Carlos Sleewa. Sorry about that. Curtis Sleewah, founder of 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.639 the Guardian Angels, is the Republican nominee. So it could 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.760 be a wild general election. But this primary what New 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:21.760 York City Democrats do? Who finishes first, who finishes second. Yes, 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.280 it's a ranked choice voting, and so we may not 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.720 have the final tally until Thursday or Friday this week. 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.600 Maybe who knows if it's something else, but just who's 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.080 the leading vote getter, who wins the most first choice votes? 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:37.360 It will tell us something about where the energy is 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.119 inside the Democratic Party. So look, there's a lot. It's 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.159 why you think what the heck is Jim cliber and 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.479 a South Carolina Democratic congressmen weighing in on the New 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:49.000 York City mayor's race. Well, he's part of the establishment, right. 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.480 He weighed in with Cuomo. Like I said, Michael Bloomberg 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:57.440 was no Cuomo fan, but he's writing millions of dollars 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:02.920 of checks. Mom Donnie's candidacy scares the living daylights out 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.440 of Democrats who think the party's brand is already seen 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:07.119 as too liberal. 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:08.920 We'll see who's right. 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:12.000 You know, I'm old enough to remember when a lot 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:16.720 of establishment Republicans thought MAGA and the far right of 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.200 the Republican Party was a losing strategy for them to 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:25.040 win elections. Ten years later, I'm writing essays that say 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.680 Donald Trump's the most influential president since FDR. So I'm 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:32.359 not going to sit here and assume either side is 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.280 correct in this one. I'm certainly one that believes that 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:38.760 the brand the party does have a brand problem, and 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:45.280 that I do think they ideologically if you're seen too 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:47.080 far to the left, that that's a bigger problem these 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:48.880 days then if you're seen as too far to the right. 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.320 So in general, it's pretty clear there's a brand problem 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.120 at least with the middle of the elector when you're 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:59.879 asking the middle to hold their nose. This most recently, 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.280 they chose far right over what they perceived to be 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:04.119 as a party. 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:04.520 That was too liberal. 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:07.320 So something to keep in mind and a reason to 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:09.840 watch that race. And with that, let's sneak in a 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:12.119 quick break and when we come back, my friend Jake. 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:23.240 Tapper joining me now somebody I have known forever. 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:27.240 We've basically professionally grew up together and watching and I think, 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:31.520 Jake Tapper, you're of course kind is just I tell 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:35.200 everybody we're sort of here simply because you're hawking a 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.840 book through. I'm not sure if people know this book 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:40.960 hasn't gotten a lot of attention, so we'll have to 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:43.080 spend some time trying to tell people about the book. 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:46.639 Can I tell you what podcast? So we show your 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:52.120 fan of Yes, my first memory of you, my first memory. 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:53.960 Of you, and I'll tell you my memory of you 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:55.440 is the Iowa State Fair. 0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.320 Yeah, in nineteen ninety nine, nineteen ninety nine, you were 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:03.919 there with Hotline, I believe. Yeah, I'm there with Salon 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:06.600 dot Com. Yep, you're there with like a little group. 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.679 It's like Dominic and Vaughn. It's just like a whole 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:11.720 bunch of hot like Vaughn. 0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:14.160 I don't remember a Dominic, but that's all right, all right, 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:17.200 maybe maybe I maybe I had a Domaco at NBC. 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:18.920 But that's maybe maybe Domenico. 0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:22.240 All right, Anyway, you were more You and Vaughn were 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:25.840 more memorable than whoever the third person was. And uh 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:29.840 so Hotline for people who don't know, and you probably 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:31.960 have some people here who know you only from NBC 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.760 and don't know about Hotline. But Hotline was the first 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:40.359 aggregator pre Internet of all the media. And it was 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.639 a newsletter that you would sign up for and somebody 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.000 would get up at the kracka dawn or even like 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:46.440 all night. 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:48.320 I don't know how you guys, Dido don Yeah. Yeah, 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:51.280 we had twelve ships. It was like I don't even know, 0:25:51.440 --> 0:25:53.400 thirty pages by the end, and like. 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:57.639 Yeah I didn't, I didn't. I I was more inclusive. 0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.240 I said, we're online. It could do as long as 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.399 it once. I never thought we should have a cut off. 0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:06.080 It was just like all the press summarized for politics, 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:08.920 all of it, and we. 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:09.880 Did this crazy thing. 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.439 You know, back then, we had these weird you know, 0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.359 people may not realize this, but there were these things 0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:17.680 called local newspapers, and they had these things called political 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.600 reporters that were based not in Washington, but actually based 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:22.240 in communities all. 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:24.280 Over the country, all over the country. 0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:27.760 And guess what, when you have people all over the country, 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:32.200 you get a more diversified look at what the hell 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:33.840 is going on in America. 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.600 Anyway, everybody wanted to be mentioned by the Hotline. 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:41.200 And one thing, we boulded the names, right, We bolded 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:42.879 all of your names, and that's what mattered. 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:45.720 I just remember, just because I was at Salon dot 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:49.760 com and you know, we were trying to get established 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.760 and trying to recognize that being mentioned and having my 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:58.960 reporter mentioned alongside of the David Broders of the world. 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.960 Was really important. And I think I remember that there. 0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:04.360 I have to go back and find it, but there 0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:08.760 was a profile of Hotline by the Washington Post Style section. 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:11.040 Yeah, and we had like for a long time. 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:13.520 In nineteen ninety nine or two thousand, in which I 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:18.159 admitted that I whined to you if I did not 0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.160 get mentioned, which is true, and I own up to that. 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.480 And you still always just want to be mentioned. You 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:25.480 still always just want to have your work we recognize. 0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:27.119 So by the way, it's this is true. I mean, 0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:29.919 like we write social media's proof of this, you know, 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:33.919 this is this is sort of the the dirty little secret, right, 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:36.280 Like that's all we just want to be seen, right, 0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:37.359 reports want to be seen. 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.159 I don't think it's a secret, but yes, no, so 0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:43.200 I've known you forever and then you are our kids 0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:46.560 now are kids with the school together. The first one 0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:49.080 that's leaving, my second one is leaving. How are you 0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:51.280 handling this? You're going to be a kid in college. 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:53.520 I'm gonna have a kid's gonna I'm good. No, I'm 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:56.320 not ready. And I'm going to be a mess. I'm 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:57.119 going to be a mess. 0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:00.760 And we have the same breakdown, older old, younger boy, 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:02.120 and I'm. 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:05.360 Going to be a mess. But yeah, we go back. 0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:08.280 Obviously you were white esk correspondent for NBC when I 0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:12.440 was white es correspondent for ABC during the first Obama term. 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:17.080 And it's been a long, lovely, fruitful fruit deal friendship. 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.600 Our wives are friends, our kids are friends. And just 0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:24.480 to just to illustrate how far back this isn't actually 0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:27.720 how far back it goes. But I got a photo 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:29.800 like apple, you know, reminds you of on this day 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:33.520 five years ago. I sent you and your wife five 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:40.120 years ago this week your son's co virtual bot metzah. Yeah, 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:42.280 the covid metzvah. Was it a botments for a bar 0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:46.880 metzvah barments of course? Harrison, ye, Harrison, Harrison. We're in 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:48.320 our basement. I set up a. 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.400 Little it looked, you know, I made him put a 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.280 suit on. You know, we did it as if we 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:55.440 had our own little bema. It was we had to 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:59.000 do that for aliss too, and it's uh yeah, so 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:01.200 you know, he never got his party and he was 0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:05.400 always kind of disappointed in that. But in exchange for 0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:07.520 the party, we went to lambeau Field like a couple 0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:08.080 years later. 0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:09.280 That's nice. 0:29:09.520 --> 0:29:14.280 So we just held off Alice's party until I forget 0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:17.160 if we did it for her sixteenth birthday or for gradu. 0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:20.040 I think our friends in the Latino commit I like 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:22.480 King Sanaras I grown up at Miami, those were I 0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:25.600 think fifteen feels like a bet, Like, you know, it's 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:29.320 so funny of these these the botmtz but we threw 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:31.760 the big bot Metzva party for our honor and you 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:34.200 did it for check And it's just so I mean, 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.280 every cliche is true when you try to like who 0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:39.280 do you invite at? Like what kind of I feel 0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:42.280 like at fifteen the kids are ready to at least 0:29:42.920 --> 0:29:44.479 mingle between boys and girls. 0:29:44.480 --> 0:29:48.200 Well, thirteen they're still not ready. No, that's totally true. 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:52.960 And I also kind of think that COVID set back 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:56.000 this generation of kids a couple of years when it 0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:57.680 comes to emotional development obviously. 0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:00.000 Oh, I completely agree. I see it. I see it 0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:00.640 with my both. 0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:04.640 Uh more so with my daughter in the age because 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:06.400 you know, in terms. 0:30:06.160 --> 0:30:09.959 Of your angling and learning how to date. Yeah, you know. 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:12.320 I don't know about you, but it wasn't High school 0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.200 was sort of when you when you made your mistakes. 0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:17.080 I don't know holse to put it right when you 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:21.200 made your miss you know, maybe it ghosted somebody the 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:23.840 wrong way, whatever it is, but in a weird way, 0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:27.640 you need that in order to sort of prepare for 0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:30.600 young adulthood when you start dating, and when you don't 0:30:30.600 --> 0:30:33.280 get it in high school, you know there is something 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:34.200 that's missing there. 0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:34.840 Yeah. 0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.480 I will not say that I made all my mistakes 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:39.600 in high school because if so, we would be subjected 0:30:39.640 --> 0:30:40.360 to all sorts. 0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:43.200 Of comments to your posts. I know there's I just 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:45.920 from people with whom I made mistakes well into my thirties. 0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:49.840 So uh fair, No, I hear you on that. How 0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:55.200 do you handle I I I can't tell you when 0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:59.640 the switch flip, but it flipped for me right around 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.040 about a month or so after the lockdown, where it's 0:31:03.040 --> 0:31:06.880 just like, remember it doesn't matter. Journalists are not meant 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:10.600 to be popular. Who cares? You know, we're all human beings. 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:13.040 You know. 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:15.600 There's always moments where you probably feel defensive and you 0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:18.000 want to say something, but you've learned not to do it. 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:21.280 I've learned not to do it. Whenbody goes. 0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:24.720 Nobody should and nobody should, I don't want them to. 0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:26.680 I'm not interested in it, which is why I'm not 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:29.800 going to do there. I'll call you up and bitch 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:32.320 and moan. Right, we can exchange texts and go blah 0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:36.280 blah blah, right, all that stuff. But for a long time, 0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:38.360 you and I were both really active on social media 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:39.040 in a different way. 0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:39.239 Right. 0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:42.520 We would engage. We'd engage positively and negatively. When did 0:31:42.520 --> 0:31:45.200 you feel like, eh, it's not worth it anymore? When 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:46.240 did you flip that switch? 0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:48.400 I don't know when it was exactly, but it just 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:52.640 became clear at one point. I do remember. I do 0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:54.960 remember one of the first experiences I had with social 0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:58.160 media where I'm like, oh, you'll get criticized no matter 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:01.200 what you do on this was when you and I 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:03.600 did the go t gamble, which. 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:07.760 Right with the Philadelphia so the Phillies Dodgers on Phillies. 0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:09.640 Ahi fan, He's a Dodgers fan, and I'm. 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:10.960 More of a Nats fan now, but at the time 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.200 I was, you know, very much more of a Dodger fan. 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:15.120 And we did we did bet, yeah. 0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:17.480 They were, and the bet was that Chuck would shase 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:21.000 he at the time yeah well he now, Yeah, at 0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:22.280 the time it was a good just to go tea 0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:25.400 and and the bet was and he you were he 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:27.080 was never going to do this. But it was like 0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:29.760 either like I said, I think I never really accepted 0:32:29.800 --> 0:32:30.800 the bet, but that's okay. 0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:33.840 I remember you you sort of proposed it. And it 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:36.400 was either if the if the Dodgers won, I would 0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:38.760 grow a go tea and if the Phillies won, Chuck 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:39.920 would shave his go tea. 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:42.600 But it's not clear you can grow facial hair, right, 0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:44.360 You're still not sure, right, you're still trying. 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:49.880 That's fair, and so I mean, who knows? Who knows 0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.479 is the answer to that. So and then there was 0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:55.200 a charity, a charitable giving opt out and I think 0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:57.840 that's what we did. We did really well. And I 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.400 think we both and we but my the chair I 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.760 picked was Nick Christoff of the New York Times had 0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:07.240 just written something about Pakistani girls having this horror. 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:08.040 Do you remember that? 0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:11.120 That's right during a pregnancy called called like fistula or 0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:12.720 something like that the girls would die of. 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.240 And like I was like, oh, I just read this. 0:33:15.240 --> 0:33:17.479 This is before I got involved with homes for our 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.080 troops and like I had the designated charity I always 0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:21.760 worked for. I was like, oh, this is this is 0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:23.200 like a really worthy cause. I'll do it for a 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:29.000 fistula And like immediately the response on Twitter was how 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:29.640 dare you? 0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:32.360 Why aren't you giving to an American charity? 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:36.000 And it was just like and that was the light 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:40.200 bulb moment that I was like, Oh, it really doesn't 0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:42.160 matter what you're doing. 0:33:42.800 --> 0:33:45.800 No matter what you do, people are going to criticize it. 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:50.320 But let me ask you this, how often in person 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:51.640 do you get negative feedback? 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:54.320 How rare? Is that very seldom? 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:58.680 And that says to me is the point I'd say, 0:33:58.840 --> 0:34:01.200 I literally can count on one hand the number of 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:03.480 negative experiences. 0:34:02.880 --> 0:34:05.360 I've had in person, and it's proof. 0:34:05.640 --> 0:34:08.600 You know, it's about the same amount of negative interactions 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.600 you have with just anybody, like on traffic jams or 0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:14.080 you know people that don't you know that don't think 0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:16.880 that think they ought to use the ten items or 0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:21.600 less line, you know, things like that. It's proof that 0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:23.640 if we all spend more time face to face, we're 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.120 not going to be assholes to each other. 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:29.799 No, I agree, I agree. And the social media has 0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:34.839 definitely made us as a and. 0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:36.680 I don't think it's in real life. I think it's 0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:39.520 only on social media, but it's made the world seem 0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:40.600 harsher well. 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:42.120 And I sit here and I try to say this 0:34:42.160 --> 0:34:44.960 all the time. There's an online world and there's the 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:47.120 real world. Mike Lee is a great example of this. 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:48.839 And I used to say this about Marco Rubia when 0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:52.160 he was the Senate, the online senators versus who they 0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:55.520 were sometimes in person, and they were like different people. 0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:57.920 Do you think Mike Lee is not who he I 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:01.040 don't know who Mike Lee is, right, I'm not. 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:01.680 And I sit there. 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:03.200 I'm not trying to say this is some sort of 0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:07.799 provocative statement. I don't know, yeah, right, like you think 0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:10.160 you know. And one of the things that I think 0:35:11.080 --> 0:35:14.160 the longer you do this job, the more politicians you meet, 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:18.000 is I don't presume I know any of these people anymore, 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:21.880 like who they really are, right, Because I think the 0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:23.960 mistake we could make sometimes when we assume if you 0:35:23.960 --> 0:35:26.480 get elected, there must be something good about you, you 0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:29.160 must have some good character, and it's like no, sometimes 0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:31.160 there are bad character people that just con their way 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:31.760 into office. 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:35.000 One of the other things that I always wonder about 0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:40.960 is how much because we are journalists, and therefore I 0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:44.040 think in the back of the mind of everybody who 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:50.840 is in the public eye at all, I think that 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.720 they are all wondering, am I ever going to betray 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:58.600 them for a story? I do wonder I do like 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:02.200 for the politicians, and I'm friendly, Well. 0:36:01.880 --> 0:36:02.759 Think about it. Look. 0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:06.239 My favorite line to quote about that I say to 0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:09.640 young journalists you know, is you know there's that line 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:12.440 in almost famous by Philip Seymour Hoffman early on when 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:14.640 he says, don't be friends with the rock stars. Rock 0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:18.360 stars aren't your friends, right, And I think about that 0:36:18.400 --> 0:36:21.080 all the time on the political front, right, because the 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:24.319 politicians want to be our friends at first, really badly, right. 0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:27.080 Whether Donald Trump and Joe Biden in some way are 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:29.680 wired the same exact way, and they're obsession with being 0:36:29.760 --> 0:36:32.719 friends with the media at first. They always wanted to 0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:36.120 have these personal relationships, and I think it takes real 0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:39.400 discipline to not get caught up in that, and it's hard, 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:42.359 you know, human beings, because you want to you know, 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:48.439 there's always a part of me that wants to believe 0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:52.040 these are all good people, just disagreeing on a philosophy. 0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:52.799 Right. 0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:54.560 I used to say, ninety five percent of the people 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:57.200 got elected to Washington, you know, got there for the 0:36:57.280 --> 0:36:59.120 right reasons. They had a real reason why they wanted 0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:01.040 to run, like a genuine You may not agree with 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.839 what they were running on, but they felt passionately on it. 0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:08.680 And then to me, the town corrupts them. 0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:12.160 I'm less, I less believe that. Now I don't know 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:14.560 what I believe. I think that my default is. 0:37:17.360 --> 0:37:21.480 So there is this concept in Judaism that Michael Medved 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.840 taught me once during an interview, which is it's called 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:29.440 don lekof zihud, which basically means give people the benefit 0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:32.600 of the doubt, don't just always assume the worst. 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:37.239 And it's something that really stuck with me almost as 0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:38.840 much as the goate gamble. 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:43.160 Which is this idea that like, don't all automatically assume 0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.000 that people are in this for the wrong reasons. And 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:47.640 so I do try to do that, which is not 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:50.279 to say, don't be skeptical. But don't just like go 0:37:50.400 --> 0:37:54.240 into an interview thinking this is just a power hungry psycho. 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:56.600 No, no, no, no, like try to. 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:00.880 I understand where they're coming from, right, And there's no 0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:03.440 doubt this this era where it does feel like a 0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:05.600 lot of people have decided politics is a good way, 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:10.080 is a shortcut to becoming famously Yeah, and wealthy and wealthy. 0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:12.759 That's the part of this that I it is a 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:13.400 good shortcut. 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:15.640 You get a lot of insider information and you can 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:18.840 invest accordingly. And it's still and this is how you 0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:22.239 know that the town is truly corrupt. Is that Like 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:26.840 the Stock Act still hasn't passed Congress. This idea of 0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:29.920 banning members of Congress, like just saying if you have 0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:31.920 a portfolio, you have to put it in a blind trust. 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:34.719 And like me, that's the idea that that's controversial, Like 0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:36.000 it's the public trust. 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:39.960 They get lots of insider information, they do. They're in 0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:42.239 closed door hearings all the time. 0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:43.799 By the way, So do you and I what do 0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:47.000 we ow? I've thought about this? You know, I don't, look, 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:48.799 I never in that time. 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:50.799 I never was based on that. Neither do I. 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:54.839 But the point is we we could, and I'm sure 0:38:54.880 --> 0:38:56.160 there are some of our brethren that do. 0:38:57.320 --> 0:39:00.600 I'm sure, but I don't. And so, by the way, 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:06.360 I don't trust myself as a financial providing financial guidance. 0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:09.800 That's why I have these much smarter guys paying attention 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:10.920 to Sall right. 0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:13.359 Let's do the book a little bit. Original sin? What 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:16.279 is your original What is the original sin? I have 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:18.440 my own original sin, That's why I'm asking it. So 0:39:18.440 --> 0:39:19.359 what is your original sin? 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:20.319 The original sin? 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:24.080 According to all the Democrats we talked about talk two 0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:25.920 for this book, and Alex Thompson, my co author, and 0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:30.680 I interviewed more than two hundred people. And I'd love 0:39:30.719 --> 0:39:33.359 to find out about your book experience when you wrote 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:36.960 your Obama Hillary book, Chuck, because I found people much 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:39.399 more willing to talk to me for a book than 0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:42.280 for anything else in my life than a print story 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:43.800 of TV interview. 0:39:44.000 --> 0:39:45.400 We're just general reporting whatever. 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:47.759 I got to know people better doing the book that 0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:49.560 I did as a regular old reporter. 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:52.200 And now there's I don't know if it's because it's 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:54.919 just it's there forever or whatever, but in any case, 0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:57.320 the original sin is Joe Biden's decision to run for 0:39:57.400 --> 0:40:02.400 reelection when he had implus not explicitly, but implicitly suggested 0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:04.759 that he would be a one term president, and then 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.960 from that decision when he was because he had like 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:12.960 a reasonably not horrible mid terms, even though he was 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:15.440 not popular and most of the country thought he was 0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:17.200 on the wrong track and most of the country was 0:40:17.239 --> 0:40:17.799 concerned he. 0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:19.080 Was too old to do the job. 0:40:19.960 --> 0:40:25.400 From that decision came a much shadier set of decisions, 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:28.600 which had to do with hiding the degree to which 0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:34.400 he deteriorated cognitively, which really started getting really bad in 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:35.719 the summer of twenty twenty three. 0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:38.680 So for me, the original sin was running in the 0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:39.200 first place. 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:43.040 Oh well, yes, I've heard you talk about this because 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:46.040 because his family was in crisis, right, because his daughter 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:47.040 and his son were. 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:52.320 When I read, I read, I followed that Hunter Biden trial. 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:52.840 Soup to nuts. 0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:56.520 I read every single transcript, I read all of the testimony. 0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:03.279 I cannot believe to this stage that Hunter Biden, that 0:41:03.680 --> 0:41:05.680 Joe Biden did this to his kids. 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:07.800 So somebody close to the family, I can't believe that 0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:08.359 he did it. 0:41:08.640 --> 0:41:11.640 Somebody close to the family told us and said, this 0:41:11.680 --> 0:41:15.120 is in the book that everybody knows. You know, some 0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:17.640 of the family aphorisms like you know my words a 0:41:17.680 --> 0:41:20.520 Biden or you know et cetera, et cetera. A lesser 0:41:20.560 --> 0:41:24.800 known Biden family saying is don't call a fat person fat. 0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:27.920 And by that they mean it's not about being, it's 0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:32.320 not about politeness. It's about hiding truths, not acknowledging truths. 0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:36.520 And this person close to the family suggested that there 0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:39.520 are lots of truths that the family did not want 0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:45.520 to face up to. One bo is dying. Two Hunter 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:50.600 is addicted to drugs. Three Joe Biden cares about his 0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:54.800 family more than he cares about anything else, and those 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:57.800 three are not true this family. This person close to 0:41:57.840 --> 0:42:00.560 the family said, and and and that's when you talked 0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:03.640 about his running in twenty twenty. I think that that 0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:07.960 comes to bear because obviously he was putting his ambition 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:10.960 and if you want to be charitable, his hopes to 0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:14.640 save the country from trump Ism or whatever. Obviously was 0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:17.760 putting that above what was going on with his family 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:22.000 and his two children and their struggles. 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:24.560 Look, I mean, you know you and I covered you 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:26.800 know for most of our professional lives. The story of 0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:28.799 Joe Biden was this guy cared about his family so 0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.160 much he commuted home every night from Washington. 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:33.680 Now here's by the way, here's the by the way. 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:35.719 You know what else you could say is this man 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:40.320 was so ambitious right after his family went through that tragedy, 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:43.879 he commuted every day to work, right right, Like it's 0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:45.880 the same story to his narrative. 0:42:45.960 --> 0:42:47.400 Had his sister help read. 0:42:47.840 --> 0:42:51.160 I sit here, I look at this and the and 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:54.279 and I think were we sold to forty year bill 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:55.840 of goods? 0:42:56.480 --> 0:42:57.959 Well, there is this and this is in the book. 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:01.480 There is this legend of Joe Biden, and some of 0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:03.120 it is based in reality and some of it is 0:43:03.160 --> 0:43:03.799 based in myth. 0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:05.560 And the legend. 0:43:05.400 --> 0:43:08.799 Isybody is not the first president. Whether it's no myth, 0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:13.640 I mean my got In fact, the most presidential resumes 0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.439 are are are have some myth in them, all of them. 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:20.080 You know, we could sit here and do it, but anyway, 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:20.440 go ahead. 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:22.880 Well, I mean you could talk about the Obama's marriage 0:43:22.920 --> 0:43:25.440 because I mean, like she never wanted him to run 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:28.320 for president, period, And oh, I mean she's been pretty 0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:29.719 honest and open about that. 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:32.920 Right And no, that memoir, I mean, yeah, I mean 0:43:32.960 --> 0:43:34.320 it's yeah. 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:35.960 The legend and this is some of that one of 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:39.080 the things that that people love about Joe Biden is 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:41.160 this idea that no matter what life throws at him, 0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:43.560 he gets up off the floor and gets back to work. 0:43:43.960 --> 0:43:46.279 Get up, he says his dad. Get up. 0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:48.759 And he always seemed to be optimist. Find a way 0:43:48.760 --> 0:43:49.480 to be optimistic. 0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:53.880 Yeah, debilitating stutter, horrible car crash that killed his wife 0:43:53.920 --> 0:43:55.400 and daughter, two. 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.239 Brain aneurysms, and on and on and on. 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:02.920 That same quality, however, is what paved the way to 0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:03.920 this bad decision. 0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:08.040 This idea that I'm Joe Biden and I cannot be 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:09.840 defeated by age. 0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:12.640 I cannot be defeated by whatever is going on with 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:14.279 my mind in my body right now. 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:19.600 I will persevere. And it's not just a mythology. For 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:22.640 some people in the family and close to the family, 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:28.960 it's a theology. And like any religion, skepticism is not permitted. 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.160 One of the things that I've I've been a bit 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:44.680 more defensive of the overall media coverage than clearly others 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:48.680 would like to be, right, meaning, you know, I think 0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:52.280 the blaming the media is an excuse not to blame 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:55.560 the actual people that did this, Okay, I like the 0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:57.640 media is a look for better or for worse, where 0:44:57.640 --> 0:45:02.280 a reflection were reflection of the best version of events 0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:03.160 that we can come up with. 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.000 We are only as good as our sources. 0:45:05.239 --> 0:45:09.160 I you know, and I've brought this up and I 0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:12.920 heard you bring this up to which is the single 0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:17.240 most difficult thing to report out on a politicians health? 0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:20.680 So sensitive? Yeah, exactly there is. 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:25.120 It is easy to frankly get shamed out of doing it, right, 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:27.399 tell you to hear you it's a private thing. 0:45:27.640 --> 0:45:29.000 Well, think about how it's private. 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:32.080 Think about how insanely sensitive people are about getting somebody's 0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:35.759 college transcript right, I mean, people are crazy about that 0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:39.000 like that that should honestly just be like automatic, you're 0:45:39.040 --> 0:45:41.080 running for president, Okay, here are my grades in college? 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:43.799 Who even cares? But you can't even get that head 0:45:44.200 --> 0:45:47.319 because they're so crazy. But yeah, the health stuff, and 0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:49.319 we saw it. It's not an insignificant thing. 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:52.319 And I do think what I want to like sort 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:56.160 of focus our conversation is that how should this change 0:45:56.320 --> 0:46:01.920 sort of our unofficial vetting process of sidential candidates, because 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:04.000 I think it should. Frankly, we got to be more 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.200 unpopular in what we do. You know, Wes Moore wants 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:09.040 to tell us about this bronze star. Well, all right, 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:12.080 we're going to like find out every little thing, how 0:46:12.160 --> 0:46:14.680 earned was it, how much did this happen? And I say, look, 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:17.440 I'm I'm singling him out because he may be running 0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:18.360 for president right. 0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:21.800 Right, he's very sensitive about us there. 0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:24.440 And it will And you and I both know the 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:28.440 way political operatives work. Anytime you can identify a topic, 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.640 if you're an opponent on somebody that you know is 0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:33.279 going to get under their skin, you're going to go 0:46:33.880 --> 0:46:35.560 ten You know, you're going to go ten x at it. 0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:40.960 But I do wonder if the Trump era and the 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:44.879 Biden cover up, right, these the combination of these two, 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:50.360 in theory, it should create the single most skeptical press 0:46:50.360 --> 0:46:52.600 score for the next decade that we've we've had in 0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:55.440 our lifetime. Let's see, maybe not since. 0:46:55.200 --> 0:47:00.319 I agree, Let's say you I agree, And you know 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:02.440 it's funny you say that, though, because the moment you 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:06.320 say this is a lesson we have learned from Biden. 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:10.839 Whatever the lesson is, it should now be applied to 0:47:10.960 --> 0:47:15.600 every president. The right wing goes, oh, so that's the 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:18.040 reason he wrote the book on Biden just to get 0:47:18.040 --> 0:47:20.279 at Trump. Like, now, what I'm just saying like that's 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:21.960 the insanity of this convers. 0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:24.160 It's always a bizarre Trump like there's always a bozar 0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:24.760 Trump angle. 0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:26.960 So forget Trump. So forget Trump for a second. Let's 0:47:26.960 --> 0:47:29.239 talk about post Trump. Let's talk about post Trump. 0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:33.920 Just to remove that nonsense from this doctor Jonathan Ryner, 0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:37.680 who you know, who is a cardiologist at GW, very respected. 0:47:37.719 --> 0:47:39.520 He's been a consultant or an advisor to the White 0:47:39.520 --> 0:47:42.439 House medical team for a long long time. He told 0:47:42.520 --> 0:47:44.920 us for our book that what he thinks needs to 0:47:44.920 --> 0:47:49.560 happen is that the White House physician needs to provide 0:47:50.719 --> 0:47:54.279 their health report, which is a voluntary thing. 0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:57.920 Yeah, and completely they shouldn't be voluntary, no, exactly. 0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:00.800 And also they decided they're going to release on what 0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:03.279 they're not going to release the White House does, but 0:48:03.360 --> 0:48:06.200 that voluntary thing, that that should be test, that that 0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:10.080 should be submitted under penalty of perjury. And I would 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:13.560 go even farther into say that that medical report should 0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:17.080 list though I doubt Reiner would disagree with me on this, 0:48:17.560 --> 0:48:22.560 every medication that the person is on, and every test 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:25.239 and the results of every test, and one of the 0:48:25.280 --> 0:48:30.000 reasons every test I think should be like delineated is 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:34.560 because Biden never got a cognitive test. Now, when his doctor, 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:37.319 Doc O'Connor was asked why not, he would say, he 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:39.759 doesn't need one cognitive test. Or when you only see 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:42.000 somebody once a year, once every two years, I see 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:42.560 him every day. 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:44.920 I see what he's doing. His job is a cognitive test. 0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:48.960 But there's another explanation that some people posit, which is 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.040 the only reason you don't give a cognitive test is 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:54.520 if you don't want to know the results in this situation. 0:48:55.680 --> 0:49:01.040 Constitutional amendment to do this, though, I really unfortunately you 0:49:01.040 --> 0:49:04.240 don't think it could just be a law no separation 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:07.640 of powers. The legislative branch can't necessarily so it's just 0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:10.000 like all of the uh you know the issue of 0:49:10.040 --> 0:49:14.360 trying to uh force a blind trust. You know that 0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:16.719 you can do it for every cabinet secretary, but you 0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:18.480 can't do it for the president and vice president. 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:22.320 Well, there should probably there should probably be some constitutional amendment. 0:49:22.440 --> 0:49:23.320 Oh, I think there should be. 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:25.960 We got that that has this has like everything, like 0:49:26.000 --> 0:49:28.399 the Stock Act that like it has everything in. 0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:31.439 It absolutely and now that probably we got to redo 0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:34.080 the age stuff. I think the aid you know, you 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:36.439 should be a cap well, the only by the way, 0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:40.120 because there are age minimums in the Constitution, it means 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.440 the only way you can put in a cap, the 0:49:42.480 --> 0:49:44.200 only way you can put it in age sort of. 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:46.279 Uh, you know where you where you. 0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:48.200 Age out of being able to hold office, You're going 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:51.080 to have to make it a constitutional amendment otherwise it's 0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:52.120 going to be unconstitutional. 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:55.520 Meanwhile, did you did you catch the subtext of the 0:49:55.560 --> 0:49:59.319 fact that they're so the senators Cornyn and Schmidt of 0:49:59.360 --> 0:50:02.080 Texas and is or had a that's the first time 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:03.600 I ever said Missouri. By the way, I don't know 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:05.360 why I said that of Missouri. 0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:10.200 Well, well depends the asuri is Saint Louis and Kansas City, 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:11.640 the rest of the state. 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:13.920 Yeah, No, I don't know why I said that anyway, 0:50:14.719 --> 0:50:19.560 So of Missouri and Texas. They had a hearing this 0:50:19.600 --> 0:50:24.120 week on by autopen hearing. Yeah, and the and and 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:26.160 the and the acuity, which, by the way, we didn't 0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:28.200 find any evidence and that's not in the book of 0:50:28.239 --> 0:50:29.879 the that the auto pen is a thing. 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:31.279 That's not to say it isn't. 0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:33.439 But we know this is just literally a right wing 0:50:33.520 --> 0:50:38.240 meme that it got so much attention that these Republican 0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:40.239 senators have to respond to it. 0:50:40.400 --> 0:50:42.200 I do think that there is I do think it's 0:50:42.200 --> 0:50:46.359 worth exploring because I don't know how much he knew 0:50:46.400 --> 0:50:48.200 everything that he was signing. But by the same token, 0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:50.480 I don't know how much any president knows everything they're signing. 0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:52.720 But in any case, moving on, old. 0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:54.920 Enough to remember when Gary Cone just pulled papers off 0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:58.120 of Trump's desk to defend him from signing stuff. You know, 0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:01.080 So what's the you know, I mean, like, you know, 0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:04.320 be careful opening this can of worms, you know, Eric Schmidt, right. 0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:08.240 So, but in any case, the thing that was interesting 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:10.960 was they had this hearing, Democrats boycotted it, and so 0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:15.200 it basically became known for the Democrats refusing to participate. 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:18.840 But what's interesting about it is who's the chairman of 0:51:18.880 --> 0:51:20.080 the Senate Judiciary. 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:24.720 Committee, isn't it Grassler? Right? Ninety year old Chuck Grassler 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:25.520 is in ninety one. 0:51:26.560 --> 0:51:29.200 I don't think I don't think he presided over it. 0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:34.680 I don't think he presided over this hearing about Biden's acuity. So, 0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:37.239 I mean, there is this, and we have a chapter 0:51:37.280 --> 0:51:39.600 in the book about this. There is a culture of 0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:43.680 this in Washington. When you and I were coming up, 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:49.400 Strom Thurmond, who was almost one hundred years old, was 0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:54.200 walking around the halls of Congress, completely adult, completely senile. 0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:59.719 He grabbed Senator Patty Murray in an elevator, groped or 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:00.759 think that she was. 0:52:01.719 --> 0:52:03.040 Miss Stafford's staffer. 0:52:03.320 --> 0:52:07.359 Yeah, because in the Therman office it was apparently known 0:52:07.400 --> 0:52:09.440 that you had to accept that if you work for him. 0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:11.640 But also, by the way, Senator Murray to this day 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:15.240 hasn't talked about it because she was talked out of 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:17.160 complaining about it back then. 0:52:17.239 --> 0:52:18.319 And I guess it was like. 0:52:18.239 --> 0:52:20.439 This is like ninety three, ninety four, yeah, pretty early. 0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:21.279 It was her first term. 0:52:21.360 --> 0:52:23.640 Yeah, she by the way she has she is now 0:52:23.920 --> 0:52:26.560 she was recently Senate pro temn I mean she was, 0:52:26.680 --> 0:52:26.920 she is. 0:52:26.960 --> 0:52:29.360 I know she went from like mom and tennis shoes 0:52:29.360 --> 0:52:30.440 to grandma tesshoes. 0:52:30.520 --> 0:52:33.000 Yeah. So but be that as it may. The only 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:36.600 point is like this this culture of coddling members of 0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:38.879 Congress and Supreme Court job. 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:41.239 But this is the seniority issue, right, like in a 0:52:41.239 --> 0:52:43.080 weird way. You know, I always talk about this is 0:52:43.120 --> 0:52:47.440 a reminder that in Washington, do you know why seniority? 0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:49.600 You know, there was a time the idea of seniority 0:52:49.680 --> 0:52:52.719 was actually a political reform because at the turn of 0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:54.880 the nineteenth and twentieth century, there was a Speaker of 0:52:54.880 --> 0:53:00.520 the House that would was basically forcing him, was was 0:53:00.640 --> 0:53:03.799 essentially doing, you know, didn't want well, no, I'm going 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:07.000 to put my people in these committees, and and so 0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:10.720 it was. It created this. It was a very narrowly 0:53:10.719 --> 0:53:14.400 divided house then. So one of the reforms they created 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:15.760 was the seniority system. 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:20.280 Well, because it does because voters take. 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:21.600 Power away from the speaker. 0:53:21.960 --> 0:53:23.560 At the time, the speaker could say no, you're the 0:53:23.600 --> 0:53:26.600 committee chairman, not you, you know, literally could take it newly. 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:30.520 Now they still do that, not as much, it's hard 0:53:30.600 --> 0:53:32.080 not not not like they did. 0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:36.440 And well there's a reason McCall and Turner are not 0:53:37.280 --> 0:53:39.240 at Foreign Affairs and. 0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:41.239 Inteler, but they also ate. 0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:44.640 But they also turned out right, the Republicans put in committee. 0:53:44.640 --> 0:53:46.680 I don't think. I don't think Turner aged out. I 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:48.279 think that they turned out. 0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:50.480 I think he I think he technically was turned out. 0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:52.000 Was he or wasn't he? I don't think so. No, 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:53.240 I think he pissed off Trump. 0:53:53.640 --> 0:53:56.400 Well, but Intel is different, by the way, Intel is 0:53:56.440 --> 0:53:59.960 a joint committee, and I don't think the seniority doesn't apply. 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:00.600 I think that's it. 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:03.279 And in any case, we've taken a deviation. Let's go back. 0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:06.400 So, yes, that reform now means that we have a 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:10.919 system that rewards people who are elected over and over 0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:15.160 and over. And that system doesn't necessarily reward accomplishment or ability. 0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:16.520 It's just longevity. 0:54:16.680 --> 0:54:21.120 And those people are surrounded by staffers and lobbyists and 0:54:21.200 --> 0:54:24.600 family members whose job it is is to give the 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:29.400 principle as much power and cover as possible, so that 0:54:29.520 --> 0:54:33.200 we now have more people over the age of seventy 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.799 in Congress than ever before that ever before period. And 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:40.960 one of the reasons why Republicans control the House right 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:45.319 now is because since April of last year, six House 0:54:45.360 --> 0:54:50.120 Democrats have died in office, and of those six, five 0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:55.120 were either in their seventies or eighties period. So this 0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:59.160 is one of the reasons why Republicans control the House 0:54:59.239 --> 0:54:59.640 right now. 0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:02.160 Yeah. Look, and then of course you keep going. 0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:04.560 You could keep going down this road, which is you know, 0:55:05.040 --> 0:55:08.880 the way the system works. If you're of working age, 0:55:09.000 --> 0:55:13.240 you don't really have the resources to run for office. 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:17.040 Only older, wealthier people do, right like, And that's the 0:55:17.080 --> 0:55:18.360 other that's the other part of this. 0:55:18.680 --> 0:55:20.520 So we just did a story on this on my 0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:22.440 show like a week and a half ago. I had 0:55:22.480 --> 0:55:25.319 some one of these great young reporters from Notice, and 0:55:25.360 --> 0:55:28.560 then I had Paul Kine like you and me an 0:55:28.560 --> 0:55:31.520 old grizzled veteran walking stayed Rich. 0:55:31.680 --> 0:55:31.759 And. 0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:37.080 It was basically about this phenomenon. And also we were 0:55:37.080 --> 0:55:41.319 specifically talking about Dwight Evans, the congressman from Philadelphia who 0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:43.719 have a stroke last year, missed a lot of votes 0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:46.879 and is now back. But the same question being asked 0:55:46.920 --> 0:55:48.840 about him is the same question being asked about Eleanor 0:55:48.840 --> 0:55:49.480 Holmes Norton, the. 0:55:49.480 --> 0:55:50.600 Delegate from Washington, d C. 0:55:50.760 --> 0:55:56.640 Which is Philadelphia and DC need fighters. Are these two 0:55:56.800 --> 0:56:00.759 politicians Eleanor Holmes Norton, I think just turned eighty eight. 0:56:01.040 --> 0:56:02.799 Yeah, are they up to. 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:07.120 The task owing our Holmes Norton cannot drive anymore because 0:56:07.160 --> 0:56:09.200 of her acuity about. 0:56:09.040 --> 0:56:12.680 Kay Granger, the Granger story down in Fort Worth, where 0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:15.840 it was apparently in a in a in a in 0:56:15.880 --> 0:56:17.480 an assisted living she. 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:21.440 Was in a dimension centeral paycheck. 0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:24.520 Yes, while her staff was clearly covering up so they 0:56:24.560 --> 0:56:26.120 wouldn't lose their infut. 0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:28.840 Not just staff, by the way, right, not family and staff. 0:56:28.840 --> 0:56:29.759 That's right, Oh, there are. 0:56:29.719 --> 0:56:33.719 The entire House Republican leadership knew about this because Kay 0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:37.319 Granger stepped down as chair of what was your chair 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:38.560 of Appropriation. 0:56:38.120 --> 0:56:41.760 Propriations, Like, so she shifted like the single most powerful 0:56:41.760 --> 0:56:44.800 committee slot you can have, okay, by the trailer committee 0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:46.680 that hands money out, yes. 0:56:46.960 --> 0:56:51.640 And steps down. Uh. And then like at some point 0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:53.680 in there, this is like the may. 0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:55.400 Or June summer yeah it was early summer. 0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:59.440 Yeah, goes into a dementia center and then nobody knows 0:56:59.440 --> 0:56:59.719 about that. 0:56:59.880 --> 0:57:04.520 Nobody knows it's a It took a reporter in Texas 0:57:04.560 --> 0:57:07.600 to track it down figure it out right, And all 0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:10.920 that time that district had not did not have a congression. 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:13.400 And this is not like a rural district, this is 0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:15.920 Fort Worth. And and this gets it too, the larger 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:18.400 issue that I'm obsessed with, which is like, and you 0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:21.040 started off by paying a very nice compliment to the 0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:22.640 to the to the hotline days. 0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:24.400 But but it's like we. 0:57:24.360 --> 0:57:27.800 Don't have enough local political reporters and there were there 0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:29.560 was more local accountability. 0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:32.480 Let's I want to get Let's give this guy shadow 0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:35.720 because I should know his name by now. K Granger 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:38.240 story because. 0:57:38.160 --> 0:57:38.680 I think it was. 0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:41.840 It was like an independent journalist, right, it was, I 0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:44.720 think a North Texas startup. I think I can't remember now, 0:57:44.840 --> 0:57:47.600 it wasn't like that. I'm trying to remember what it 0:57:47.640 --> 0:57:54.080 was myself. This is obviously, uh, really fun for folks 0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:56.200 when they can hear us googling. 0:57:57.640 --> 0:57:59.800 So that's that's that's always good. That's good stuff. 0:58:00.000 --> 0:58:01.440 My ajor stepped down is the top of this is 0:58:01.480 --> 0:58:04.560 the time, so the top of Republican appropriations coming in March, 0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:06.640 said she would not seek re elections. 0:58:06.640 --> 0:58:09.800 She should continue to serve out the rest of her term. Unbelievable. 0:58:11.120 --> 0:58:12.720 It might have been the Dallas Morning News. 0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:15.880 But the point was is that it just there's this 0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:19.440 there's less local urgency on political coverage and I don't 0:58:19.480 --> 0:58:22.680 know how because there's just fewer people doing it. And 0:58:23.200 --> 0:58:26.120 this is what happens is I don't think constituents are 0:58:26.120 --> 0:58:32.760 fully aware of, frankly, how invalid some of their representation is. 0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:36.080 At times. Oh it's crazy, and look, I should also 0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:41.160 we should also note that age is not necessarily determinative 0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:44.360 of ability, although it's there is a correlation, but it's 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:45.520 not necessarily determined. 0:58:45.560 --> 0:58:48.080 Oh, I'm going to get grief my mother has noted 0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:50.480 the few times that I note you know about you know, 0:58:51.000 --> 0:58:53.600 and my mother works, and she's you know, I've. 0:58:53.560 --> 0:58:56.080 Learned that to mention my parents in these situations. 0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:59.600 So I'm not mentioned my mother. Exception. 0:59:00.320 --> 0:59:03.800 Yeah, there are exceptions to this, but we cannot pretend 0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:07.240 that in your seventies and eighties people don't slow down 0:59:07.320 --> 0:59:09.960 a little and sometimes, you know, it is actually a 0:59:10.000 --> 0:59:12.280 good time to go in the porch and drink some 0:59:12.360 --> 0:59:14.400 lemonade and read some books and look at it. 0:59:14.400 --> 0:59:16.600 But I'm going to be more crass about it, which 0:59:16.640 --> 0:59:22.320 is you're further away from how many Americans live their lives. 0:59:22.640 --> 0:59:26.200 So how are you? How are you? How do you know. 0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:31.800 Even how to represent people with small kids, people with 0:59:31.880 --> 0:59:32.520 kids in college? 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:33.040 You know what I mean? 0:59:33.200 --> 0:59:35.200 You know, also not invested in the future because you're 0:59:35.200 --> 0:59:37.320 not going to be around for So this is why. 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:39.000 By the way, so I got and I guess it's 0:59:39.080 --> 0:59:42.440 because of the movie Conclave. I got really into this Conclave. 0:59:42.480 --> 0:59:44.360 It was the first Conclave I got into. 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:45.040 As a dry love. 0:59:45.160 --> 0:59:48.160 It's a single, that's my it's the election. I want 0:59:48.200 --> 0:59:50.720 to observe. The most Conclave of the movie was really 0:59:50.720 --> 0:59:51.840 good until the last ten minutes. 0:59:51.880 --> 0:59:55.000 Yea, I didn't like the twist, but beyond beyond the twist, 0:59:55.720 --> 0:59:59.480 that movie got me really into the idea of the conclave, 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:02.080 and I learned and I guess some people, a lot 1:00:02.080 --> 1:00:03.800 of people probably knew this, or at least our Catholic 1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:07.360 friends knew this. But like, cardinals over the age of 1:00:07.400 --> 1:00:09.680 eighty have not been permitted to participate in the conclave 1:00:09.760 --> 1:00:13.720 since the seventies. Since the nineteen seventies, Yes, the Catholic 1:00:13.760 --> 1:00:16.000 Church has been well ahead of the rest of the world. 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:19.400 The Catholic Church is rarely ahead of society on anything. Yeah. 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:21.840 No, but they were like, are on this The Pope said, well, 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:24.120 they tried, they try to get cardinals to step. 1:00:23.920 --> 1:00:26.360 Down at seventy five and they won't, right. 1:00:26.400 --> 1:00:28.960 And so but what they said is okay, but you 1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:32.919 can stay on and emeritus or whatever, but you can't 1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:35.080 participate in the conclave. You can offer advice on the 1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:38.200 sidelines whatever. But like you're not voting because you're not 1:00:38.240 --> 1:00:40.200 And I guess the thinking is because you're not going 1:00:40.240 --> 1:00:42.040 to be around for the future of the church, and 1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:43.200 like it should be younger people. 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:46.840 And by younger they could mean seventy nine. But like still. 1:00:47.440 --> 1:00:50.720 So there is this age thing that is part of 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:55.160 the Biden's story, and beyond that is this culture of 1:00:55.720 --> 1:00:59.400 hiding this stuff, people not being willing to bring it up. 1:01:00.040 --> 1:01:03.000 And again, none of this excuses what Biden and his 1:01:03.080 --> 1:01:06.000 family and his top aides did, but it is a 1:01:06.120 --> 1:01:10.680 context to this town, this wacky town. This is the 1:01:10.720 --> 1:01:13.800 only place that this could have happened. It couldn't even 1:01:13.800 --> 1:01:16.800 happen at the Catholic church. But it couldn't happen in athletics. 1:01:16.840 --> 1:01:18.880 It couldn't happen in the business world. It couldn't happen 1:01:18.880 --> 1:01:22.760 in acting. It couldn't happen in any other sphere because 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:25.360 there would be a board of directors or a producer 1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:29.400 or This couldn't happen in the UK because the person 1:01:29.520 --> 1:01:31.640 the number two behind the Prime Minister would come in 1:01:31.680 --> 1:01:32.680 and say this is crap. 1:01:32.840 --> 1:01:34.600 The parties are much stronger there, etc. 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:37.560 Couldn't happen in Canada, couldn't happen in New Zealand, couldn't 1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:38.400 happen in Australia. 1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:40.440 But in the United. 1:01:40.040 --> 1:01:43.960 States, in Washington, DC, it was inevitable And in fact, 1:01:44.120 --> 1:01:47.600 this has happened before to lesser extents, with Reagan and 1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:51.080 his Alzheimer's JFK and his Addison's Wilson and his stroke, 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:51.920 and on and on. 1:01:52.080 --> 1:01:56.840 FDR player in nineteen forty four, No way ever run 1:01:56.880 --> 1:01:58.880 for president, never should have run for president. 1:01:58.920 --> 1:02:01.320 But you know what's interesting about that is that the 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:05.600 party steps in, yeah, now, knowing that he's going to die, right, 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:07.560 and at least forced him to pick a different price 1:02:07.680 --> 1:02:10.200 and has and say, okay, well, get rid of Henry Wallace, 1:02:11.320 --> 1:02:14.560 the Soviet sympathizer. Put in somebody else who could actually 1:02:14.600 --> 1:02:17.280 be president. They put in Harry Truman. So the party 1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:20.040 is hint to what's going on, but not to like. 1:02:20.000 --> 1:02:22.680 What you can run. So let me get to some one. 1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:30.360 One more on the book, the motivation to protect Biden, 1:02:30.440 --> 1:02:32.800 how much of it was about Kamala Harris and a 1:02:32.920 --> 1:02:35.000 lack of belief she could win. 1:02:35.560 --> 1:02:37.640 That was an excuse? You? 1:02:38.000 --> 1:02:40.920 Yeah, I was wondering is it an excuse or was 1:02:40.960 --> 1:02:42.120 it real? What do you think? 1:02:42.360 --> 1:02:44.240 Like? What's your I think it was no. 1:02:44.400 --> 1:02:46.240 I think that they thought this, And by they I 1:02:46.280 --> 1:02:49.840 mean Joe Biden, Jill Biden, Hunter Biden, and then what. 1:02:50.000 --> 1:02:52.960 Was called the folks, I would say, Mike Donlan Rochetti, 1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:54.960 that's the pro That's what I was coming to. 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:55.280 Next. 1:02:55.480 --> 1:03:00.959 The Pola Buro is the is the tight circle of topics. Okay. 1:03:01.040 --> 1:03:03.840 So it's Mike Donald and Steve Roshetty and others. Okay. 1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:09.240 And they they thought the following one, Joe Biden is 1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:10.760 the only one who's ever beaten Donald Trump. 1:03:11.400 --> 1:03:11.760 Two. 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.880 Therefore, Joe Biden is the only one who can beat 1:03:14.920 --> 1:03:18.960 Donald Trump in twenty twenty four. Three, Donald Trump postes 1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:22.000 an existential threat to the nation. If you believe those 1:03:22.000 --> 1:03:23.640 three things, you can justify anything. 1:03:24.320 --> 1:03:24.440 Uh. 1:03:24.640 --> 1:03:27.520 And they used Kamala as an excuse. Oh so Joe 1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:29.280 shouldn't run. So who's going to be the nominie? 1:03:29.360 --> 1:03:32.840 Kamala? She's even less popular than him, which was true 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:34.280 at the time. Well, well then why did he pick her? 1:03:34.400 --> 1:03:35.880 Why why did he pick her in the first place. 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:39.400 That's a great question, and that and that's David. 1:03:39.440 --> 1:03:42.240 Plus, she wasn't right to me, if she wasn't prepared, 1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:44.840 you didn't have confidence in her and being president, then 1:03:45.160 --> 1:03:48.160 clearly this first what are we told the most? You know, 1:03:48.200 --> 1:03:50.920 the first decision a president makes is who they want 1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:53.360 as their number two. Well, if that's a failure, then 1:03:53.440 --> 1:03:54.840 their first decision was a failure. 1:03:55.360 --> 1:03:57.479 Well, I think it's fair to say that he made 1:03:57.480 --> 1:04:00.080 the He made the pick for political reasons, not for 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:01.440 governing reasons. 1:04:01.480 --> 1:04:03.840 I guess, But I don't even understand the political reasons. 1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:08.320 I've never understood that pick. I've never understood what he look. 1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:10.760 I get what they I get what they thought it 1:04:10.840 --> 1:04:12.360 might bring to the ticket, but it didn't. 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:13.160 But anyway, go ahead. 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:18.640 Well, they thought that, especially after George Floyd and the protests, 1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:21.840 that black women are the beating heart of the Democratic Party, 1:04:21.880 --> 1:04:26.000 the most reliable and most needed voters, and the Kamala 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:28.680 Harris had been vetted on a national stage because she'd 1:04:28.760 --> 1:04:31.720 run for president, done successfully and dropped out in twenty nineteen. 1:04:32.240 --> 1:04:33.600 She had an impressive resume. 1:04:34.440 --> 1:04:39.440 She was on paper an attractive candidate senator, former attorney general, 1:04:39.800 --> 1:04:43.680 former district attorney, et cetera. And they thought that it 1:04:43.720 --> 1:04:44.520 was a no brainer. 1:04:44.960 --> 1:04:45.680 It was between. 1:04:46.120 --> 1:04:49.120 If that is what you thought, then it wasn't even 1:04:49.120 --> 1:04:52.400 a close call. Val Demings was the pick. It was 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:54.440 the same, I mean, why pick. 1:04:54.560 --> 1:04:55.440 She was never really? 1:04:55.640 --> 1:04:58.160 Why you don't pick the cop is the single look. 1:04:58.320 --> 1:05:00.200 I understand why they didn't pick her because they didn'. 1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:02.720 Know her well enough. But it wasn't between baron An 1:05:03.240 --> 1:05:05.920 I know it wasn't, and it was between her, and 1:05:06.320 --> 1:05:07.560 it was between her and Whitmer. 1:05:08.120 --> 1:05:11.280 Dennings and Val Deming's a congresswoman and former police chief 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:15.920 from Florida, and Karen Bass, the current mayor of Los 1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:20.920 Angeles then a congresswoman from California, were publicly it was 1:05:20.960 --> 1:05:23.040 supposed to be down to those three according to people, 1:05:23.120 --> 1:05:26.400 and then Whitmer was also right, but it wasn't. It 1:05:26.440 --> 1:05:29.479 was just between Whitmer and Harris. It was only between 1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:32.960 Whitmer and Harris, and Biden's gut was with Whitmer, but 1:05:33.080 --> 1:05:36.440 he went with Harris because his top aids thought he 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:40.440 needed to, and he was proud of that pick for 1:05:40.760 --> 1:05:45.480 you know, the superficial trailblazing civil rights reasons, and those 1:05:45.520 --> 1:05:48.240 are three separate categories. I'm not saying that civil rights 1:05:48.280 --> 1:05:50.680 reasons are too superficial. I'm saying they're different ones. 1:05:51.080 --> 1:05:54.280 And that's what he went with. But but yes, that 1:05:54.280 --> 1:05:55.640 would drive Pluff crazy. 1:05:55.760 --> 1:05:59.160 David Pluff, Obama's campaign manager in OH eight, his chief 1:05:59.160 --> 1:06:01.560 of staff, I know, you know, I'm telling them, and 1:06:01.680 --> 1:06:04.440 uh and who was brought on to bring to help 1:06:04.480 --> 1:06:06.800 run the Kamala Harris campaign in those last time one 1:06:06.840 --> 1:06:09.320 hundred and seven days. It would driving him crazy because 1:06:09.320 --> 1:06:11.000 he'd be like, if you don't think she's up for 1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:12.880 the job, why did you pick her to be vice president? 1:06:12.920 --> 1:06:15.680 Because they picked Remember Pluff and ex Rod helped pick. 1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:18.120 But don't forget no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 1:06:18.120 --> 1:06:24.560 no Biden. Excuse me. Axelrod was a Biden guy. Pluff 1:06:24.600 --> 1:06:27.000 did not want to pick Biden. Pluff argued against Biden 1:06:27.120 --> 1:06:29.800 all the way. Bluff hated all of them. Pluff, well, 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:32.280 I really hated Biden. He never bought the Biden thing. 1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:33.959 He never was a Biden guy. There was a weird 1:06:34.000 --> 1:06:37.880 relationship there because you know, uh, Pluff's a Delaware It's 1:06:37.880 --> 1:06:40.240 from Delaware. Yeah, you know right, it's a Delaware kid. 1:06:40.280 --> 1:06:43.640 And he never worked for Biden. It bugged Biden that 1:06:43.760 --> 1:06:48.280 Pluff was not somehow part of the you know, enough 1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:50.560 of a you know that got into politics and never 1:06:50.600 --> 1:06:52.400 worked for the Bidens, right, Like it was like some 1:06:52.440 --> 1:06:54.520 sort of you know, how dare you you know, a 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:55.840 rejection or whatever it was. 1:06:56.120 --> 1:06:57.800 But Pluff was never he was. 1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:01.680 My understanding was he was the guy arguing against He 1:07:01.760 --> 1:07:02.919 wanted the generational pick. 1:07:03.000 --> 1:07:04.600 You pick Kane. Look, that's it. 1:07:04.640 --> 1:07:07.840 You know, we could play this game of original sin, right. Obviously, 1:07:07.920 --> 1:07:10.560 I think the original sin was running I go back 1:07:10.560 --> 1:07:13.640 even further. I think, in hindsight, the other the super 1:07:13.680 --> 1:07:18.840 original sin was Barack Obama endorsing Hillary Clinton and not 1:07:18.840 --> 1:07:22.160 not steering the party to a new generation. Nope, it's 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.400 not personal against Hillary Clinton. But it was that the 1:07:24.400 --> 1:07:27.200 fact that he endorsed an older Democrat, the fact that 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:31.200 he endorsed somebody technically a little bit a genera half 1:07:31.200 --> 1:07:34.560 generation older than him rather than and then what happened. 1:07:35.640 --> 1:07:39.080 It knocked out an entire generation of the Democratic Party 1:07:39.520 --> 1:07:41.960 that might have been in the leadership class at this point. 1:07:42.000 --> 1:07:44.240 All the people that ran in twenty should have run 1:07:44.280 --> 1:07:48.200 in sixteen, right, that all those all those that impressive 1:07:48.240 --> 1:07:51.680 class of senators from six that Democrats got, right, Tester 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:55.240 mccaskell web case he shared Brown. 1:07:55.280 --> 1:07:56.400 You know there's a whole bunch of them. 1:07:56.400 --> 1:07:59.120 And then you throw in Booker in thirteen, and Michael 1:07:59.120 --> 1:08:01.560 Bennett and ten. You know there was a whole generation 1:08:01.680 --> 1:08:04.680 of them that all would have been Klobashar is another one. 1:08:04.720 --> 1:08:07.400 All would have been primed to run in sixteen, but 1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:10.840 for Obama putting his finger on the scale for Clinton. 1:08:10.880 --> 1:08:12.960 Yeah, he didn't. He didn't explicit least, that's my pre 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:14.080 original sin on this. 1:08:14.240 --> 1:08:16.400 If you really wanted to keep going back, because you 1:08:16.400 --> 1:08:19.400 wouldn't have been in the situation where you had Biden 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:22.760 and Clinton as the sort of the only two people. 1:08:24.200 --> 1:08:27.599 That could. We will probably never know thepromise candidate. We'll 1:08:27.600 --> 1:08:29.240 probably never know. Well, we can't wargame it. 1:08:29.520 --> 1:08:33.120 But no, But I wonder if that was an explicit, 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:39.680 behind the scenes deal when they had that meeting, you know, 1:08:39.720 --> 1:08:42.479 when she endorsed him finally after that had fought primary, 1:08:42.600 --> 1:08:44.320 and also when she came on board to be Secretary 1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:44.639 of State. 1:08:44.680 --> 1:08:46.799 I wonder if just the two of them and nobody 1:08:46.840 --> 1:08:48.400 would even know. We'll never know. 1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:51.439 Well, and Bill Clinton was a huge asset to Barack 1:08:51.439 --> 1:08:54.080 Obama in the reelect in twenty twelve. I look, I 1:08:54.080 --> 1:08:59.080 always I respected Obama. If Obama endorsed her basically out 1:08:59.080 --> 1:09:03.240 of loyalty, hey she you know, she she took one 1:09:03.280 --> 1:09:05.800 for me. You know, she brought the party together. You know, 1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:11.280 I owed her. That's politics, Like, I respect that mindset. 1:09:11.320 --> 1:09:14.280 Don't get me, but I agree it probably was the 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:16.439 end of a deal. And I also think he did 1:09:16.479 --> 1:09:18.800 respect her and said, hey, this woman has the ability 1:09:18.800 --> 1:09:21.439 to do the job, which also is true. But to me, 1:09:22.320 --> 1:09:24.720 what we all have to remember is it doesn't matter 1:09:24.760 --> 1:09:27.200 if you have the ability to do the job, do 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:29.400 the voters want you? Well, that's the fact of the 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:31.800 matter is the voters had already rejected her once in 1:09:31.840 --> 1:09:35.360 the Democratic Party, and that was to me, the misfire 1:09:35.439 --> 1:09:36.840 of Obama's. 1:09:36.400 --> 1:09:38.360 I mean, the voters have rejected Ronald Reagan two times 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:39.240 before they went for him. 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:40.960 You can't go by that. But I will say this 1:09:41.160 --> 1:09:43.760 not real. We got We get into this a little 1:09:43.760 --> 1:09:45.559 bit in the book because Biden has this chip on 1:09:45.600 --> 1:09:49.719 his shoulder based on this revisionist history that Obama picked 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:52.640 her over him, when the truth of the matter is 1:09:53.600 --> 1:09:56.880 bo had just died in twenty fifteen, and Obama right, 1:09:57.080 --> 1:09:58.960 it was even no shape to run. It was in 1:09:59.040 --> 1:09:59.720 no shape to run. 1:09:59.760 --> 1:10:03.360 And and just the political reality was that by the 1:10:03.400 --> 1:10:08.000 fall of twenty fifteen, Bernie and Hillary were both so 1:10:08.320 --> 1:10:12.640 popular it didn't even matter if that whole class that 1:10:12.680 --> 1:10:15.280 you're talking about had run. Hillary and Bernie were just 1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:17.439 so popular with the populists and with the base and 1:10:17.479 --> 1:10:17.920 with women. 1:10:18.160 --> 1:10:21.640 You know, Bernie doesn't run if Hillary, if there's a 1:10:21.880 --> 1:10:25.360 you know, there were so many other folks. Elizabeth Warren 1:10:25.439 --> 1:10:28.080 probably runs in sixteen. If Hillary doesn't run and Bernie 1:10:28.120 --> 1:10:30.720 doesn't run. You know, Bernie only ended up running when 1:10:30.840 --> 1:10:31.960 nobody else would. 1:10:32.120 --> 1:10:34.920 Hillary running is not dependent on Obama backing her. That's 1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:37.200 my point. Hillary was going, oh, you're not right there. No, 1:10:37.240 --> 1:10:40.040 but but let me tell you something else about fifteen 1:10:40.040 --> 1:10:43.360 twenty sixteen that you'll find interesting, which is so Our 1:10:43.439 --> 1:10:47.720 reporting in the book found that Biden's adlemant could be 1:10:47.760 --> 1:10:51.720 traced as far back as Bo's death in May twenty fifteen, and. 1:10:51.680 --> 1:10:53.040 A top a might have been a trigger. 1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:55.479 Yeah, And the top aide told us that watching his 1:10:55.520 --> 1:10:59.360 psyche Biden psyche then Vice President Biden psyche in twenty fifteen, 1:10:59.439 --> 1:11:02.400 when Bodon was like watching somebody pour water on the sand. 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:07.439 And that was when he first started deteriorating with whatever 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:09.120 he had, whatever generation. 1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:11.559 And this is the part where I have tons of empathy. Okay, 1:11:11.640 --> 1:11:14.560 I you know, when my dad died, my grandfather outlived 1:11:14.600 --> 1:11:19.320 my father, and I remember he was catatonic. The lex 1:11:19.640 --> 1:11:22.479 he lived six years after my dad died, and he 1:11:22.640 --> 1:11:26.639 was a hollowed out person. Yeah, he was totally as 1:11:26.680 --> 1:11:30.599 you or I would be correct you. So I fully 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:33.960 understand all that. But it does get at the point 1:11:34.000 --> 1:11:36.360 where he never should have put the country. Well, here's 1:11:36.360 --> 1:11:38.880 the thing that's put that he put his ambition. He 1:11:39.360 --> 1:11:42.599 wasn't he couldn't do this. It's okay that he couldn't 1:11:42.640 --> 1:11:46.200 do this, Like we all like tragedies happen and it 1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:48.920 impacts you, and you know, I sit there, it's like 1:11:48.960 --> 1:11:53.280 it's it's not a sign of weakness. But but the 1:11:53.320 --> 1:11:55.920 fact is, you know, they call it blind ambition for 1:11:55.960 --> 1:11:56.360 a reason. 1:11:56.840 --> 1:11:58.800 So it was blind ambition. 1:11:58.960 --> 1:12:01.960 In I mean some of the other some of the 1:12:02.000 --> 1:12:05.400 other evidence that shows that he was declining significantly before 1:12:05.439 --> 1:12:08.280 he ran in twenty twenty is in the her Report 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:11.920 where Robert Hurr. When Robert hur is investigating Joe Biden's 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:15.920 mishandling of classified information, he finds these tapes or he 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:18.800 gets these tapes of Biden taught the officer right, yeah, his. 1:12:18.760 --> 1:12:19.920 Ghost his ghost writer. 1:12:20.520 --> 1:12:22.880 And you know when he's sitting there in the skiff 1:12:22.920 --> 1:12:24.919 and he hears Biden say, I just found the classified 1:12:24.920 --> 1:12:27.960 documents downstairs, and you know, eyes light up, Oh my god, 1:12:28.000 --> 1:12:32.799 he just confessed. But on these tapes, Biden sounds old, 1:12:33.000 --> 1:12:35.960 and he can't remember dates and he can't remember facts, 1:12:36.160 --> 1:12:38.840 and that's in the her report, and that's twenty seventeen, 1:12:39.320 --> 1:12:41.880 twenty eighteen. But what I find interesting about all this 1:12:41.960 --> 1:12:43.559 and I'd love to be able to talk to Barack 1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:44.559 Obama about this. 1:12:45.560 --> 1:12:47.840 But he'll never give you or eyeen interview. 1:12:47.880 --> 1:12:48.040 Ever. 1:12:48.280 --> 1:12:52.080 Maybe he does the Gerald Ford and does a you know, 1:12:52.800 --> 1:12:54.639 there's a there's an interview that we don't know about 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:57.400 that gets released after death, right, like that's a probably 1:12:57.439 --> 1:12:58.280 only shot we got. 1:12:58.600 --> 1:13:01.400 Yeah, I let to know Obama's head. 1:13:01.640 --> 1:13:08.639 So he so our reporting suggests that Biden, that Obama 1:13:08.680 --> 1:13:11.080 did not support Biden running for president of twenty sixteen 1:13:11.080 --> 1:13:13.559 because he didn't because he needed Biden was not in 1:13:13.600 --> 1:13:15.719 any condition because he was grieving his son so much. 1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:18.960 And I wonder if Obama, and I don't know if 1:13:18.960 --> 1:13:20.840 he's read the book or not, but I wonder if 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:25.960 Obama looks back at that and thinks, oh, that wasn't 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:28.479 just grief, that was something else. 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:31.760 I think it could have been grief that I think 1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:33.960 it's I don't know. I think it's hard to disaggregate 1:13:33.960 --> 1:13:34.760 it for what it's worth. 1:13:35.200 --> 1:13:37.880 I just wonder what he thinks. And you know, I agree. 1:13:37.920 --> 1:13:40.840 He was never super accessible. 1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:45.679 Much more accessible than Biden was, but he was never 1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:48.680 super accessible. When we were White House Correspondence, he started off, 1:13:48.720 --> 1:13:50.960 remember when he would like to have a lunch, have 1:13:51.040 --> 1:13:52.840 a lunch with the NBC team, have a lunch with 1:13:52.880 --> 1:13:53.639 the ABC team. 1:13:54.080 --> 1:13:55.720 And then it was all good for about nine months 1:13:55.760 --> 1:13:57.680 and then the beer you know what it all? You 1:13:57.680 --> 1:13:59.720 know when it changed. It was I think it's the beer, 1:14:00.439 --> 1:14:03.200 the Beer Summit. Everything changed after the Beer Summit, our 1:14:03.280 --> 1:14:05.360 access to them change, everything. 1:14:05.040 --> 1:14:07.840 Changed, you know. That was that was that was a 1:14:08.600 --> 1:14:09.559 that's my thesis. 1:14:09.840 --> 1:14:12.120 You know, I felt like that that's when they that's 1:14:12.120 --> 1:14:13.360 when they got a little more. 1:14:15.120 --> 1:14:18.000 You know, one of more pretorian. 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:29.680 Yeah, you have an interest, you know. 1:14:29.680 --> 1:14:33.599 I was thinking about all the books you've written, and 1:14:34.880 --> 1:14:40.960 you've done fiction. Yeah, you've done war, a war book. 1:14:41.960 --> 1:14:48.439 You've done the sort of the the quick thing that 1:14:48.520 --> 1:14:50.320 Jesse Ventura book, Like I don't know how what you 1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:53.519 would describe that quick book, the sort of like what 1:14:53.600 --> 1:14:56.080 the hell just happened? You know, give me some quick context. 1:14:56.160 --> 1:14:58.200 You know, those are the books that I always say 1:14:58.200 --> 1:15:00.679 are the big magazine stories that you make into a book, right, 1:15:00.720 --> 1:15:02.880 because because there is like, Hey, who the hell is 1:15:02.880 --> 1:15:03.160 this guy? 1:15:03.160 --> 1:15:04.559 How the hell did this happen? This is it? That 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:07.720 was that was a right instant paperback in Saint Martin's price. 1:15:07.800 --> 1:15:08.080 Get it. 1:15:08.200 --> 1:15:10.240 I think I was paid like ten thousand dollars. It 1:15:10.280 --> 1:15:11.679 was very early in my career. 1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:12.160 Yeah. 1:15:12.240 --> 1:15:15.000 Right, And you've done these various different and you what 1:15:15.040 --> 1:15:17.320 I think is interesting is most people who have authored 1:15:17.320 --> 1:15:20.479 as many books as you have, there's a pattern and 1:15:20.520 --> 1:15:25.719 other than generally politics being the subject matter, you've actually 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:29.320 dabbled in different styles of writing, different styles. 1:15:29.600 --> 1:15:31.280 So what do you like? 1:15:31.560 --> 1:15:32.880 Is it one of those things you like at all 1:15:32.920 --> 1:15:35.439 and you like dabbling in the different styles, doing a 1:15:35.439 --> 1:15:39.400 little novel, or is there one? Is there one that 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:41.880 you're like, you know what, in the next twenty five years, 1:15:41.880 --> 1:15:44.040 I hope to do five more like this. 1:15:45.080 --> 1:15:49.679 No, it's it's entirely what interests me at any given moment, entirely, 1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:52.639 and there's really other than politics or at large, there's 1:15:52.720 --> 1:15:56.400 there's really no theme I have. 1:15:56.600 --> 1:15:58.320 I'm working on two more books right now. 1:15:58.520 --> 1:16:01.360 One of them comes out in October and it's about 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:05.600 the prosecution of a terrorist and it's just I was 1:16:05.680 --> 1:16:09.840 at a paintball with my son for his birthday party, 1:16:10.520 --> 1:16:13.360 and because it's an hour outside of DC, you know, 1:16:13.439 --> 1:16:15.680 I have pizza and refreshments for the adults so they 1:16:15.680 --> 1:16:17.200 don't have to drive an hour and then drive an 1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:18.800 hour back, then drive an hour, you know whatever, just 1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:21.800 hang out for a couple hours while the kids beat each. 1:16:21.720 --> 1:16:22.439 Other up in the woods. 1:16:22.439 --> 1:16:25.000 And one of the dads comes up to me and says, Oh, 1:16:25.040 --> 1:16:28.920 I know Dave Roller from The Outpost And I'm like, Oh, 1:16:28.960 --> 1:16:31.040 that's so cool. Dave Roller is one of the heroes 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:32.639 of The Outpost in my Afghanistan book. 1:16:32.880 --> 1:16:35.559 And I said, yeah, that book's really tough. 1:16:35.640 --> 1:16:38.799 The Pentagon, the military really doesn't keep very good records 1:16:38.920 --> 1:16:40.200 and they're very reluctant to share. 1:16:40.680 --> 1:16:42.800 And he says, oh, tell me about it, and. 1:16:42.760 --> 1:16:45.400 Then he proceeds to tell me this incredible case that 1:16:45.479 --> 1:16:49.600 he was an assistant US attorney for in which they 1:16:49.640 --> 1:16:52.760 had to build a case against a terrorist and it 1:16:52.800 --> 1:16:56.000 was just this unbelievable yarn and it was just so 1:16:56.160 --> 1:16:58.320 that's my next book, just because I was just like, Oh, 1:16:58.360 --> 1:16:59.559 my god, that's fascinating, what. 1:16:59.520 --> 1:17:00.000 A great story. 1:17:00.120 --> 1:17:01.920 So you're just a story follower and I mean this 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:03.640 in a good like, Yeah, it's a good story. I 1:17:03.640 --> 1:17:04.519 want to tell you the store. 1:17:04.720 --> 1:17:08.280 The one after that is illustrated. It's a great it's 1:17:08.280 --> 1:17:08.800 not enovel. 1:17:08.800 --> 1:17:11.519 That's what I wanted to ask you, Like you've always like, 1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:15.760 if you could be a full time political cartoonist, would 1:17:15.800 --> 1:17:15.960 you be? 1:17:16.280 --> 1:17:16.760 I don't think. 1:17:16.880 --> 1:17:18.880 I don't think I'm good at it, honestly, Like no, 1:17:19.040 --> 1:17:20.439 I mean yes, if I had like a whole new 1:17:20.439 --> 1:17:24.600 set of talents, that's fun. Although that's a dying field, unfortunately, 1:17:25.120 --> 1:17:27.640 I don't. Just like I look at the political cartoonists 1:17:27.960 --> 1:17:30.599 that I admire. And I was just at the LBJ 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:33.000 Library for this book tour and they showed me some 1:17:33.080 --> 1:17:36.800 pat Oliphant cartoons that they have in storage. At first 1:17:36.800 --> 1:17:39.120 of all, why are they in storage? Please put them 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:42.960 up on the wall. But anyway, and they showed me, and. 1:17:43.080 --> 1:17:46.360 Why are they at the LBJ library and not like LBJ. 1:17:46.120 --> 1:17:50.640 Because pat Oliphant in the sixties LBJ would read the 1:17:50.640 --> 1:17:54.040 political cartoons, look at the ones he liked and has 1:17:54.120 --> 1:17:56.599 for that tell people to go get them, and then 1:17:56.920 --> 1:17:59.760 pat Oliphant would sign them respectfully pat Ollifant, and hand 1:17:59.800 --> 1:18:00.679 them to the president. 1:18:00.760 --> 1:18:03.120 Yeah no, and it was like dozens of them, and 1:18:03.160 --> 1:18:03.880 it's just like, oh my. 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:05.640 I guess good for him for saving it. I mean, 1:18:05.680 --> 1:18:07.240 you know, he could have just given it to family. 1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:09.040 No, it's so cool. 1:18:09.320 --> 1:18:11.800 Anyway, I look at him and I'm like, that guy 1:18:11.920 --> 1:18:13.520 was just the best political cartoonist. 1:18:13.600 --> 1:18:16.400 He just took no prisoners. He was such a beautiful draftsman. 1:18:16.439 --> 1:18:19.320 I can't do that, but I will say the next 1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:22.519 book is about So. I was in France with my 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:24.799 family and my son and I went to the Museum 1:18:24.840 --> 1:18:27.640 of the Resistance and we learned about Jean Mulan, the 1:18:27.640 --> 1:18:35.200 hero of the Resistance, and he was tortured by tortured 1:18:35.200 --> 1:18:39.120 and killed by the Nazi Klaus Barbie. And I'm like, oh, 1:18:39.479 --> 1:18:41.599 I've heard of Klaus Barbie. And then I just want 1:18:41.600 --> 1:18:43.759 to kind of went down this rabbit hole of Klaus Barbie, 1:18:43.800 --> 1:18:47.320 this Nazi who escaped justice after World War Two and 1:18:47.439 --> 1:18:49.439 was in Bolivia and blah blah blah. And then I 1:18:49.520 --> 1:18:51.400 just and I learned so much that just like completely 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:56.360 opened my eyes. And then I pitched a graphic novel 1:18:56.400 --> 1:19:00.280 except it's nonfiction about Klaus Barbie. And that's my next 1:19:00.280 --> 1:19:02.080 book after So it's really honestly, And that's just a 1:19:02.120 --> 1:19:03.320 clear Now you're. 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:06.040 Doing a graphic novel, which you've never done before, So no, exactly. 1:19:06.040 --> 1:19:09.040 So I think it's all just what interests me and 1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:11.280 what is a challenge that I want to see if 1:19:11.320 --> 1:19:13.200 I can meet it, That's that's what I think. 1:19:14.000 --> 1:19:17.400 Let's get out on political satire. Okay, your favorite satire 1:19:17.439 --> 1:19:20.559 out there these days? Who's doing? Because I think it's 1:19:20.560 --> 1:19:23.720 never been harder to be a satirist of our current 1:19:23.760 --> 1:19:28.240 political world because sometimes, you know, or if you try 1:19:28.280 --> 1:19:31.720 to fictionalize what we're going through, you can't come up 1:19:31.720 --> 1:19:35.240 with the scenarios that we're actually dealing with, right, Like some. 1:19:35.320 --> 1:19:35.840 Of it is. 1:19:36.040 --> 1:19:39.920 You know, if I would have told you ten years 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:42.240 ago that, yeah, a president's family is going to start 1:19:42.280 --> 1:19:44.519 a mobile phone company, wow my god. I mean, like 1:19:44.600 --> 1:19:47.519 you know, like just the little thing like this one. Yeah, 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:49.800 and you sit here and now it's just sort of normalized. 1:19:50.640 --> 1:19:52.920 I think it's never been harder to be a satirist 1:19:53.640 --> 1:19:56.719 or or or humorist where you need to you almost 1:19:56.800 --> 1:19:59.200 need to exaggerate in order to make a point, right R. 1:19:59.680 --> 1:20:02.400 How do you exaggerate? How do you sound this exaggerated? 1:20:02.880 --> 1:20:05.320 The world is satire. We live in a satire well, 1:20:05.360 --> 1:20:07.800 I mean I do. What do you think doing it well? 1:20:07.960 --> 1:20:08.799 Like these days? 1:20:08.920 --> 1:20:10.599 I mean, you know, I do think the late night 1:20:10.640 --> 1:20:15.280 guys from Kimmel to Fallon, to Seth Meyers to Colbert 1:20:15.520 --> 1:20:16.599 to Bill Maher at. 1:20:16.479 --> 1:20:18.479 You you're saying good things about all of them, all 1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:19.080 of them will help. 1:20:19.120 --> 1:20:20.920 But I mean that they but I do see their 1:20:20.960 --> 1:20:24.320 clips and they do make that I do. The test 1:20:24.320 --> 1:20:26.400 for me is always just like, am I watching the clip? 1:20:26.880 --> 1:20:28.519 Am I watching the clip? And my watching it all 1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:29.040 the way through? 1:20:30.479 --> 1:20:30.760 I do? 1:20:30.880 --> 1:20:34.040 And Bill Maher you know, who is obviously not predictable 1:20:34.080 --> 1:20:36.320 in terms of the stuff he's ranting on. I appreciate 1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:38.720 to me it makes them slightly more interesting because it's 1:20:38.720 --> 1:20:41.680 not predictable, right, Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. 1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:43.720 I do. I wish it was. 1:20:43.720 --> 1:20:48.559 More thriving though, the political satire world, because it just 1:20:48.640 --> 1:20:51.760 does seem like it should be so ripe and yet 1:20:51.840 --> 1:20:53.439 at the same time there is. 1:20:54.560 --> 1:20:56.680 Well there's like I take a guy like Greg Guttfeldt. 1:20:56.920 --> 1:20:59.800 I knew gut You probably knew him too. Twenty years ago. 1:20:59.840 --> 1:21:03.880 He was the editor of UK Maxim. He's the editor 1:21:03.920 --> 1:21:07.240 of UK Maxim and he was sort of an iconoclastic 1:21:07.400 --> 1:21:11.400 kind of guy, sort of loud, but also like would 1:21:11.439 --> 1:21:16.120 satirize anybody, right, And you know the version that we 1:21:16.160 --> 1:21:17.920 see of him now is not the guy that you 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:20.440 know he could be. I think of more interesting satirists 1:21:20.720 --> 1:21:24.400 if he didn't feel trapped by I think or maybe 1:21:24.400 --> 1:21:26.080 he's doing it by choice. I'm not going to say 1:21:26.120 --> 1:21:28.200 he's trapped, but if he didn't feel like the ad 1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:31.479 state you have to stay within the silo of your 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:32.640 information ecosystem. 1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:36.639 I mean, look, I don't I don't know Greg particularly well. 1:21:37.160 --> 1:21:41.960 I will say that you know he's probably delivering what 1:21:42.080 --> 1:21:43.320 the audience at ten o'clock on. 1:21:43.240 --> 1:21:46.160 Fox points that's exactly right, meaning like he's let he's 1:21:46.160 --> 1:21:47.599 been audience captured. 1:21:47.880 --> 1:21:48.080 Right. 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:50.080 And to me, the best satirists are the ones that 1:21:50.160 --> 1:21:52.759 aren't afraid of pissing off the audience. 1:21:53.080 --> 1:21:55.240 I'll tell you, Like, when you asked about political satire, 1:21:56.000 --> 1:22:01.600 my mind immediately ran to Tom Larr, who from the sixties, 1:22:02.760 --> 1:22:03.919 who I still. 1:22:03.720 --> 1:22:08.040 A showing our age even though was us. 1:22:08.080 --> 1:22:10.599 He's still alive out there. And Tom, if you're hearing this, 1:22:10.920 --> 1:22:13.639 you're a You're a god. But I have to say 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:15.800 and Ben Smith interviewed him once, like ten years ago, 1:22:15.880 --> 1:22:20.240 and I was like so jealous. He was a satirist 1:22:20.320 --> 1:22:23.360 who was just there to make the jokes and just 1:22:23.520 --> 1:22:26.520 vicious no matter who he was making fun of, the Democrats, 1:22:26.560 --> 1:22:29.439 the Republicans, it didn't matter, and he was so clever. 1:22:30.680 --> 1:22:35.560 And that's still I listen. I still listen to him. 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:39.080 I don't know, I mean, is there is there any 1:22:39.120 --> 1:22:40.560 satirists that you listen to? 1:22:40.640 --> 1:22:40.800 You know? 1:22:40.960 --> 1:22:43.160 I look, I know, I mean, you know, I will 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:47.679 say this, I've I look at the animators. I think 1:22:47.720 --> 1:22:51.240 the South Park guys still have captured Oh they're great. Yeah, 1:22:51.280 --> 1:22:54.080 I think they they have captured this moment better than others. 1:22:54.840 --> 1:22:57.120 I think they really do well on the culture stuff. 1:22:57.560 --> 1:23:00.759 Like I really feel like the South Park guys really 1:23:01.000 --> 1:23:04.800 know how to sort of expose the cultural so great. 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:06.519 Do you know one of the reasons why they're so great. 1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:08.160 I'll tell you because I did a piece about. 1:23:07.920 --> 1:23:11.920 Them for Nightline, like literally like twenty years ago for Nightlines. 1:23:11.920 --> 1:23:14.160 If you have to say Nightline, it's automatically twenty Yeah. 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:18.000 Well they're still around, but yes, but is it? Sorry 1:23:18.120 --> 1:23:19.320 I didn't I have to be that one. 1:23:19.360 --> 1:23:21.040 I had to be reminded of it's like you're telling me, 1:23:21.360 --> 1:23:23.280 like twenty twenty, is that still around? 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:27.320 I know, yeah, so they did. They crash it in 1:23:27.360 --> 1:23:29.559 a week. I mean, that's how they do it. 1:23:29.640 --> 1:23:32.839 That's why they're so I mean they're also very very funny, 1:23:32.880 --> 1:23:35.680 and they're very very gifted storytellers, and they have no 1:23:35.760 --> 1:23:39.280 allegiance to any party, and they are making. 1:23:39.120 --> 1:23:42.120 They're true libertarians. I mean, they really are. You know, 1:23:42.320 --> 1:23:45.360 they're Colorado Libertarians. I say this that you know, there's 1:23:45.479 --> 1:23:47.559 a distinction. You know, you and I've done this long 1:23:47.640 --> 1:23:49.439 enough where we know you got your your East Coast 1:23:49.439 --> 1:23:53.920 Libertarians or one thing you're but Colorado is a different cat, right, Like, 1:23:54.000 --> 1:23:56.599 it's just a different walk of libertarian and they capture 1:23:56.600 --> 1:23:57.120 it so well. 1:23:57.479 --> 1:24:00.760 So they and they crash in a week. They do 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:02.120 it in a week. It's also one of the reasons 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:06.640 why the animation so whatever. But uh, but you know, 1:24:07.240 --> 1:24:10.920 and but they're brilliant and you know, they're the kind 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:13.920 of thing that I remember trying to introduce my son 1:24:14.000 --> 1:24:16.920 to The Simpsons, and I got ahead of myself. 1:24:16.920 --> 1:24:17.800 He wasn't ready for it. 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:22.240 Yeah, my son likes Family Guy okay and South Park okay, 1:24:22.400 --> 1:24:25.479 But you know, my son's a Shane Gillis guy. He 1:24:25.560 --> 1:24:26.519 loves tires. 1:24:27.320 --> 1:24:29.080 Oh is that right, Shane gill Well, a lot of 1:24:29.080 --> 1:24:32.480 the I mean talk about political satire, so so Shane Gillis, 1:24:33.240 --> 1:24:36.439 Ricky Gervais, Dave Chappelle, like a lot of the guys 1:24:36.680 --> 1:24:40.400 who if you said that you like them five years ago, 1:24:40.439 --> 1:24:44.200 you'd get canceled like they you're right, they really and 1:24:44.240 --> 1:24:47.320 again everybody should live and be well and pro love 1:24:47.400 --> 1:24:47.840 and all that. 1:24:47.920 --> 1:24:48.360 But like. 1:24:50.600 --> 1:24:53.880 They're I guess, I guess what about snl We didn't 1:24:53.880 --> 1:24:56.760 even we haven't even mentioned snl uh in terms of 1:24:56.760 --> 1:25:00.400 political satire. I think weekend updates funny, but you know 1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:01.040 the funny two. 1:25:01.560 --> 1:25:04.600 But you know the weekend that they exhausted. I'm exhausted 1:25:04.600 --> 1:25:07.479 from the Trump stuff. And it's not their fault, like 1:25:07.960 --> 1:25:10.439 you know, this is a formula and somewhat, Hey, you 1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:12.360 got to do the president. You got to do that, 1:25:12.520 --> 1:25:14.240 and they've been doing it for fifty years. You got 1:25:14.280 --> 1:25:14.880 to keep doing it. 1:25:14.960 --> 1:25:17.400 Right. You should read the Lorn's biography, by the way, 1:25:17.400 --> 1:25:19.880 it's really good. But I've done a lot. 1:25:19.960 --> 1:25:23.280 I heard a long interview with her, and yes it is. 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:25.280 It's a great it's a great book. 1:25:25.320 --> 1:25:27.439 But let me just say, what I think is the 1:25:27.479 --> 1:25:30.960 funniest thing that SNL does is when Chay and Jost 1:25:31.520 --> 1:25:35.920 swamp jokes and Chay makes Jost say like the most 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:38.120 racist jokes and. 1:25:37.720 --> 1:25:39.840 The uncomfortable, Right, that's what you like. You and I 1:25:39.880 --> 1:25:42.599 both like a comedy that it's a little uncomfortable. Yeah, 1:25:42.800 --> 1:25:45.000 And to me, maybe that satire is supposed to make 1:25:45.040 --> 1:25:46.640 you a little long. You're not supposed to just be 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:50.640 comfortable and laugh. You're supposed to be like, Oh, that's 1:25:50.680 --> 1:25:53.599 how you know it's effective satire, right, right? 1:25:54.479 --> 1:25:59.080 And so I mean I do think that that is effective. 1:25:59.120 --> 1:26:01.599 And I think we are in an era right now 1:26:02.960 --> 1:26:08.120 of people who are very very sensitive and try to 1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:11.800 impose their sensitivities on everybody else, and people who have 1:26:11.960 --> 1:26:15.479 zero sensitivities and are. 1:26:15.479 --> 1:26:17.880 Also try to put that on everybody. Right, And. 1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:22.360 So what I guess whatever makes me laugh? You know, 1:26:22.600 --> 1:26:24.840 I'm constantly seeking. But I don't go home and watch 1:26:24.840 --> 1:26:26.120 the news. I don't know about you. I go home 1:26:26.120 --> 1:26:26.759 and watch Oh. 1:26:26.640 --> 1:26:29.719 I don't either. I don't Slow Horse. 1:26:29.760 --> 1:26:31.839 I watch a lot of sports. Oh, I like slow Horses. 1:26:32.040 --> 1:26:34.280 You know, I didn't realize it was based on a 1:26:34.320 --> 1:26:36.120 series of books. I may, I may, that may be 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:39.439 a summer may be a little summer fiction reading for me? 1:26:39.560 --> 1:26:41.960 Is that those slow horses. It's a whole series of books. 1:26:42.000 --> 1:26:43.519 Did you know that I did? 1:26:44.120 --> 1:26:48.000 And apparently the Gary Oldman character and by Gary Oldman 1:26:48.439 --> 1:26:52.440 easily top five actor of our lifetime. Right, it's unbelievable 1:26:52.760 --> 1:26:55.960 how he can just he's It's never like you always 1:26:56.000 --> 1:26:58.240 have to oh, that's Gary Oldman. You know an actor 1:26:58.280 --> 1:27:00.280 is good when you have to be told who it 1:27:00.320 --> 1:27:02.200 is and you don't know it right away. 1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:06.479 Yeah, he's great horses. George Clooney is always George Clooney, 1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:10.040 Department Q. But you know what don't don't know? You 1:27:10.040 --> 1:27:11.960 shouldn't say that about George. Let me tell you why 1:27:12.439 --> 1:27:13.120 I watched. 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:15.400 No, I'm not saying he's not a good actor, but 1:27:15.400 --> 1:27:17.320 there's a difference. There's two types of actors. I read 1:27:17.320 --> 1:27:19.880 this and I thought may have been behind the kinds 1:27:19.880 --> 1:27:22.760 who there's aliens and there's humans. Right, there's those that 1:27:22.920 --> 1:27:26.680 become the character Gary Oldman does this, Meryl Streep because this, 1:27:26.960 --> 1:27:31.320 And then there's Harrison Ford or or even Julie Louis 1:27:31.360 --> 1:27:38.120 dreyfuss or, who are great, great actors kind of themselves stars. 1:27:38.560 --> 1:27:41.960 There are versions of them. Go back and watch Clooney, Go. 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:45.320 Back and watch Clooney and Burn after reading, which is, yes, 1:27:45.320 --> 1:27:49.559 perhaps the most relevant film to today's Washington d C. 1:27:50.400 --> 1:27:51.040 After reading. 1:27:52.880 --> 1:27:54.599 But he's he's really good in that. I don't want 1:27:54.640 --> 1:27:56.000 you to think. I don't think he's not good. There's 1:27:56.080 --> 1:27:58.439 I'm just saying, it's just a different style of acting. 1:27:58.640 --> 1:28:01.160 Like it's the method acting. It's it's the I've got 1:28:01.200 --> 1:28:05.000 to become this person acting like the guy from Succession, Right, 1:28:05.280 --> 1:28:10.760 who's Jeremy Strong, right? Who other actors don't love his method? Right, 1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:14.439 there's all these there was all these Vanity Fair stories 1:28:14.479 --> 1:28:16.439 about oh he was hard to work with because he 1:28:16.560 --> 1:28:19.200 was always in character. Right, He's one of those people 1:28:19.240 --> 1:28:21.719 that wants to be in character versus others that don't. 1:28:22.479 --> 1:28:25.080 But I look, everybody does it differently, and I'm always 1:28:25.120 --> 1:28:28.360 fascinated with that. But Gary Oldman is just That's why. 1:28:28.400 --> 1:28:31.800 I just I just it's amazing how often I'll watch 1:28:31.840 --> 1:28:33.679 something and you're like, oh my god, that was Gary Oldman. 1:28:33.920 --> 1:28:37.120 God, he's amazing. Yeah. Well, just to think that the 1:28:37.160 --> 1:28:39.520 guy in Slow Horses is also the guy from Dracula 1:28:40.439 --> 1:28:41.479 from one hundred years ago. 1:28:42.160 --> 1:28:44.120 My point is, is apparently the reason I want to talk 1:28:44.200 --> 1:28:47.599 Apparently the books, the character Gary Oldman plays in Slow Horses, right, 1:28:47.640 --> 1:28:50.240 with all the farting and how disgusting he is is awful. 1:28:50.320 --> 1:28:53.080 He's really appearly. It's like appairly. He's like even more 1:28:53.120 --> 1:28:56.479 disgusting in the books. Oh even worse, Yes, it's even worse. 1:28:56.880 --> 1:28:59.280 How could he be worse? I know That's what I'm like. 1:28:59.400 --> 1:29:01.320 I'm a little afraid of reading one of the books, 1:29:01.360 --> 1:29:04.840 like really, so is? He literally started watching the other 1:29:04.880 --> 1:29:05.400 one self. 1:29:05.280 --> 1:29:07.120 In the middle of a of a of an interrogation. 1:29:07.320 --> 1:29:09.639 Sorry, here's another one you'll like. Is I just started 1:29:09.640 --> 1:29:12.360 watching Department Q where that is? 1:29:12.479 --> 1:29:14.400 Oh? Is that the That's an Amazon thing? Right? 1:29:14.439 --> 1:29:16.799 This is a James Bond thing, like a spinoff. 1:29:17.880 --> 1:29:19.479 I don't you know what? I have every streamer and 1:29:19.520 --> 1:29:20.880 I don't even know. I just talked into the thing 1:29:20.920 --> 1:29:25.880 and but oh I know what you made Department First problem, 1:29:26.479 --> 1:29:30.719 it's Scott frank Is, this writer director who's just absolutely brilliant. 1:29:31.680 --> 1:29:33.920 The first two isn't that? Is it a little James Is? 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:38.040 It's basically no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not 1:29:38.120 --> 1:29:38.400 at all. 1:29:38.479 --> 1:29:42.800 It's because it's it's basically Cold Case. It's basically Cold Case, 1:29:43.600 --> 1:29:46.360 not the TV show, but the concept is Britain or 1:29:46.400 --> 1:29:51.040 America UK. Yeah, Okay, it's really good. It's it's really good. 1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:53.559 And it's Matthew Good. 1:29:53.680 --> 1:29:55.120 Do you know. I think it's pronounced good. 1:29:55.800 --> 1:29:59.559 He's this incredibly good looking guy who he's like one 1:29:59.560 --> 1:30:03.519 of these guys. It's like like William Hurt, like a 1:30:03.600 --> 1:30:07.200 character actor, born into a leading man's body, and and 1:30:07.240 --> 1:30:10.519 he's he's in it and he's he's shaggy, and it's 1:30:10.560 --> 1:30:15.080 just it's good anyway, just recommended, just recommending. I still 1:30:15.080 --> 1:30:18.240 need to be get caught up on films. I haven't 1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:21.160 seen Sinners, I haven't seen Friendship. There's a ton I 1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:21.679 need to say. 1:30:21.800 --> 1:30:23.040 So let me ask you this. 1:30:22.800 --> 1:30:25.320 This is always something that people ask me about and 1:30:25.360 --> 1:30:28.080 I don't have a good answer than I just constantly read. 1:30:28.120 --> 1:30:28.880 That's just what I do. 1:30:29.479 --> 1:30:34.800 But you're also very culturally literate, and there's always and 1:30:34.840 --> 1:30:37.080 I'm sure people wonder where where do you find the time? 1:30:40.120 --> 1:30:42.000 You know, I get used? How do you say that? Yeah? Right? 1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:44.479 How do I get asked you? Because of the books? 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:49.400 I mean, first of all, I'm very driven and obviously 1:30:50.280 --> 1:30:51.080 a little nuts. 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:52.800 Do you not sleep a lot? You probably don't sleep 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:55.120 a lot, right, I. 1:30:55.120 --> 1:30:58.120 Try to No, I need no, no, no, I need. 1:30:58.160 --> 1:31:00.000 I need more than that. I try to sleep a lot. 1:31:00.120 --> 1:31:02.280 I try to go and I go through different periods 1:31:02.320 --> 1:31:03.920 where I'm like, I'm sleeping well, and then I'll go 1:31:03.960 --> 1:31:08.000 through a pier where I'm not sleeping well. I just 1:31:08.080 --> 1:31:10.400 I work a lot. I'm just constantly working. I'm not 1:31:10.479 --> 1:31:11.880 veg I don't do a lot of vegging. 1:31:12.040 --> 1:31:12.439 And in the. 1:31:12.400 --> 1:31:14.479 Morning at work, if you're doing that, that means it's 1:31:14.479 --> 1:31:15.120 not really work. 1:31:15.520 --> 1:31:17.600 Well, that's the other thing. I really mean, if it 1:31:17.640 --> 1:31:20.160 were work, you wouldn't do it. These a different are 1:31:20.479 --> 1:31:23.479 These books are a joy. But I'll tell you, I'll 1:31:23.840 --> 1:31:25.240 I'll tell you that. I'll tell you the way I 1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:25.599 do it. 1:31:26.439 --> 1:31:31.680 I constantly have this laptop or my iPad that I'm 1:31:31.720 --> 1:31:34.559 drawing on with me at all times. 1:31:34.920 --> 1:31:37.360 And if I put down my. 1:31:37.320 --> 1:31:41.479 Stupid phone and stop reading Twitter or Instagram and go 1:31:41.640 --> 1:31:44.800 online and start working on Google Docs. 1:31:44.680 --> 1:31:47.160 Or all I'll say is, ever since you slowed down 1:31:47.640 --> 1:31:49.880 on social media, you've written more books. And I'm not 1:31:49.880 --> 1:31:51.360 saying there's a correlation. 1:31:51.120 --> 1:31:54.200 There is a correlation. I stopped. Oh no, I were 1:31:54.200 --> 1:31:56.360 a heavy tweeter. You were heavy. It was a big tweeter. 1:31:56.439 --> 1:31:58.760 And I'm twenty fourteen to about twenty eighteen, right when 1:31:58.800 --> 1:31:59.400 you say. 1:32:00.040 --> 1:32:02.080 I don't know when I I don't know when I stopped, 1:32:02.120 --> 1:32:06.040 but I definitely stopped. And it's funny when people like 1:32:06.080 --> 1:32:08.439 attack you for things that you haven't done in five 1:32:08.520 --> 1:32:10.000 or ten years later. 1:32:10.080 --> 1:32:12.400 I feel the same way at which look, if there 1:32:12.400 --> 1:32:16.360 are times I go back, I regret how much I 1:32:16.439 --> 1:32:20.360 was on Twitter in twel oh yeah, twenty twelve, totally, totally. 1:32:20.080 --> 1:32:23.360 Do I remember, like in that early experience of like 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:25.519 twenty two thousand and nine twenty ten. 1:32:26.160 --> 1:32:27.040 People would tweet. 1:32:27.520 --> 1:32:30.160 People would tweet, and I'm including myself in this, like 1:32:30.280 --> 1:32:35.080 anything they were experiencing or thinking they would share, and 1:32:35.120 --> 1:32:35.880 it was almost my. 1:32:35.880 --> 1:32:38.880 Remotes not working here, you know, like tweet him, you know, 1:32:38.960 --> 1:32:40.479 it was like, what are we doing? 1:32:40.760 --> 1:32:45.240 And I remember Mike Allen now currently of Axios, and 1:32:45.479 --> 1:32:47.080 I don't know who he was with at the time, 1:32:47.120 --> 1:32:48.240 maybe Politico or whatever. 1:32:48.280 --> 1:32:50.360 I don't remember who he's with at the time, but. 1:32:50.360 --> 1:32:54.720 I remember him writing something about it, and I was like, 1:32:54.920 --> 1:32:59.000 and I had tweeted something about Alice, my daughter when 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:03.320 she was maybe like one, and it's something like, uh, 1:33:03.360 --> 1:33:06.479 you know, whatever I was experiencing with Alice at that moment, 1:33:06.520 --> 1:33:09.880 I tweeted it, which is insane, and Mike had written 1:33:09.920 --> 1:33:13.600 something like love Jake, love Alice, But why why is 1:33:13.600 --> 1:33:14.679 he sharing this kind of thing? 1:33:15.400 --> 1:33:18.639 And I just I remember thinking first I was like, oh, 1:33:18.840 --> 1:33:20.559 you know, fuck you, but then I was like, oh, 1:33:20.600 --> 1:33:25.960 he's right, yeah, no, it goes back to where and 1:33:26.040 --> 1:33:28.320 this is going to sound I love my calens. 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:32.599 This is going to sound like phony phoniness to some people, 1:33:32.600 --> 1:33:40.479 and you can we shouldn't be celebrities, of course, but 1:33:40.600 --> 1:33:43.120 I always say it, I didn't choose, you know, I 1:33:43.160 --> 1:33:47.800 don't think you know, but somehow we became personalized to 1:33:48.000 --> 1:33:50.479 people when it came to write how they got their 1:33:50.479 --> 1:33:54.800 political information. So rather than viewing us simply as a 1:33:54.880 --> 1:33:58.240 vehicle for information, right, they you know, were the where 1:33:58.280 --> 1:34:02.479 the you know. And it's just look, it's been very 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:04.280 good to us. I'm not going to sit here and 1:34:04.320 --> 1:34:08.519 saying it hasn't been good to us, but I think 1:34:08.560 --> 1:34:13.560 it's I think it has set unrealistic expectations to younger journalists, 1:34:14.400 --> 1:34:15.960 and I think there's too many people getting into our 1:34:15.960 --> 1:34:18.639 business wanting to be a celebrity or wanting to be famous, 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:21.639 and yeah, that's their motivation for it, and it's. 1:34:21.560 --> 1:34:24.240 I will I will just say where we are. 1:34:24.600 --> 1:34:26.599 I will just say that I think the most important 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:30.760 thing that journalists can do is report. And I don't 1:34:30.760 --> 1:34:35.080 consider like my tweets about the Eagles to be anything 1:34:35.120 --> 1:34:36.800 other than like me having fun. 1:34:36.880 --> 1:34:38.120 Like that's all right, let me get you out of 1:34:38.120 --> 1:34:41.200 here on this. You're a Philly guy. You love all 1:34:41.200 --> 1:34:43.720 the Philly teams, and when they're winning, you're going to 1:34:43.800 --> 1:34:44.799 love all the Philly teams. 1:34:46.160 --> 1:34:50.760 But when when they're currently which of they. 1:34:49.479 --> 1:34:51.519 Are most for the most part? 1:34:51.600 --> 1:34:54.120 Right, Phillies and Eagles in particular, we can you know, 1:34:54.640 --> 1:34:58.479 But of those four teams, who will you follow even 1:34:58.479 --> 1:35:01.840 when they suck? Which one of the four do you like? 1:35:01.960 --> 1:35:05.519 You'll torture yourself to keep following them, even if it's 1:35:05.680 --> 1:35:09.920 just a horrendous situation, Like what's the what's the true 1:35:09.960 --> 1:35:11.960 first love of those four of those four films? 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:14.000 I mean, it's a time between the Eagles and the Phillies, 1:35:14.040 --> 1:35:16.360 depending on what the season is, I just have to say. 1:35:16.360 --> 1:35:19.040 And then probably Eagles have a leg up right now 1:35:19.040 --> 1:35:21.719 because they've won two Super Bowls since twenty eighteen. 1:35:22.439 --> 1:35:24.839 I think about it, you were like, you were of amazing, 1:35:24.880 --> 1:35:27.680 You were of that. I mean Wilbert Montgomery, Harold Carlmichael, 1:35:27.720 --> 1:35:30.800 Mike Schmidt. I mean that that period of seventy nine 1:35:30.800 --> 1:35:34.000 to eighty one, right where you where Philly got baseball 1:35:34.080 --> 1:35:36.960 and Pete Rose your baseball and football we. 1:35:37.479 --> 1:35:38.320 Were in the super Bowl. 1:35:38.880 --> 1:35:42.919 Your age, your age, that's pretty That leads an impression. 1:35:42.960 --> 1:35:45.879 It's like why my son is obsessed with Yes, well, exactly. 1:35:46.040 --> 1:35:49.720 I remember when Pete Rose came to the Phillies in 1:35:50.320 --> 1:35:54.080 seventy eight, seventy nine from the Reds. And then I 1:35:54.080 --> 1:35:57.920 remember when Tug mcgrawth through that final pitch in nineteen 1:35:57.920 --> 1:36:02.559 eighty I was eleven, and the very next year or 1:36:02.680 --> 1:36:05.000 like January February of eighty one, the Eagles were in 1:36:05.000 --> 1:36:07.000 the Super Bowl. And then the eighty two eighty three 1:36:07.040 --> 1:36:11.519 season the Sixers won the championship. So that period, I 1:36:11.600 --> 1:36:15.880 mean imagine being ten, eleven, twelve during that period, like 1:36:15.920 --> 1:36:19.320 it was an incredible gift to young sports fans. 1:36:19.360 --> 1:36:22.280 But then no, and that's that's how fandom, that's how 1:36:22.320 --> 1:36:25.920 it sticks. So Flyers is probably the weakest of the four. 1:36:26.080 --> 1:36:28.160 I'm just not a hockey fan, and it's probably just 1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:30.240 because I can't follow them. 1:36:30.400 --> 1:36:31.720 They not good. Do you think they know? 1:36:32.080 --> 1:36:33.960 No, no, the broad state, but Bullys were great in 1:36:34.000 --> 1:36:37.040 the seventies when I was growing up. I just, you know, 1:36:37.120 --> 1:36:38.960 probably also a lot of this is just shape by 1:36:38.960 --> 1:36:41.320 who your parents are rooting for and who your friends 1:36:41.320 --> 1:36:44.679 are rooting for. Although I will say my best friend 1:36:44.720 --> 1:36:46.960 when I was in grade school, a guy named Jason Lerner, 1:36:47.439 --> 1:36:48.360 was a huge. 1:36:48.080 --> 1:36:49.599 Bobby Clark and Flyers fan. 1:36:50.600 --> 1:36:53.400 And maybe if, just like life, maybe if he had 1:36:53.439 --> 1:36:54.720 taken me to a game, I would have become a 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:55.200 Flyers fan. 1:36:55.240 --> 1:36:57.439 I don't know, but I just I've been sitting on 1:36:57.479 --> 1:37:01.759 a Manila envelope of for some reason, have a World 1:37:02.000 --> 1:37:07.760 Series Champion Phillies color photo from top somehow, oh my god, 1:37:07.840 --> 1:37:10.840 nineteen eighty and I've literally it's been for Jake. 1:37:11.160 --> 1:37:15.320 It's been sitting on my desk. So what of these times? 1:37:15.360 --> 1:37:16.160 I will remember it. 1:37:16.200 --> 1:37:19.920 When we we see each other for dinner. But I 1:37:20.280 --> 1:37:22.360 do I think of you all. I like that, the 1:37:23.640 --> 1:37:27.040 the eighty Philly stuff. I'm you know, way into sports collectibles. 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:27.439 These days. 1:37:27.439 --> 1:37:29.320 Oh yeah, and I know you are too. You're sort 1:37:29.320 --> 1:37:32.640 of a sneaky eBay guy. Comic books, what is it? 1:37:32.680 --> 1:37:36.320 Comic book, comic books, political cartoons, historical stuff. And then 1:37:36.360 --> 1:37:39.400 I do have I do have a bunch of baseball cards, 1:37:39.439 --> 1:37:42.360 and I think I have almost every Mike Schmidt card 1:37:42.720 --> 1:37:47.720 ever except for this one very obscure sticker card from 1:37:47.760 --> 1:37:49.760 when he was with the Puerto Rican League in like 1:37:49.800 --> 1:37:52.000 seventy one seventy two. That's how you won't find that, 1:37:52.160 --> 1:37:54.000 I know, I know, I just got by the way, 1:37:54.000 --> 1:37:58.800 I just got Jackie Robinson's rookie card that was a 1:37:58.800 --> 1:37:59.479 which one. 1:37:59.400 --> 1:38:02.280 Forty eight leaf for forty eight nine leaf forty okay, 1:38:02.439 --> 1:38:05.320 because the forty nine leaf is also. 1:38:06.840 --> 1:38:09.439 Marketed as a rookie card. It's not though right now, 1:38:09.479 --> 1:38:11.200 I know, I know it's actually. 1:38:11.000 --> 1:38:14.519 The same exact photo, it's the same exact everything, just 1:38:14.640 --> 1:38:16.200 they just reprinted it in forty nine. 1:38:16.400 --> 1:38:19.920 Yeah, and there's a lot of fakes out there also, 1:38:20.240 --> 1:38:24.320 yes there is, yeah, so but yeah, and Jackie Robinson memorabilia. 1:38:24.400 --> 1:38:27.040 Just because I've just become a huge Jackie Robinson fan, 1:38:27.200 --> 1:38:29.599 it's for like thirty years, just because of who you are. 1:38:29.600 --> 1:38:30.519 No, I've I've got it. 1:38:30.600 --> 1:38:33.920 Campanella was my dad's favorite player, So I do Campanella 1:38:33.960 --> 1:38:37.160 and Jackie, but more I've been Campingella because it's it's 1:38:37.360 --> 1:38:38.360 a little more affordable. 1:38:38.760 --> 1:38:39.280 Did you do. 1:38:39.240 --> 1:38:41.920 Anything when the when so the Dolphins didn't get their 1:38:42.000 --> 1:38:43.720 their white house visit during nick time. 1:38:43.760 --> 1:38:46.040 I was never a Dolphins fan. My dad always right. 1:38:46.439 --> 1:38:48.880 Yeah, my dad had a grudge against the Dolphins for 1:38:49.080 --> 1:38:53.040 ripping off the university, the Dolphins and the Hurricanes in Miami. 1:38:53.280 --> 1:38:55.280 You know, my first love is college football. Is university 1:38:55.800 --> 1:38:58.160 like that. I will fall if they're owen, if they're 1:38:58.160 --> 1:39:00.519 o and twelve, I will watch every game matter like 1:39:00.560 --> 1:39:02.280 I'm gonna you know, I will torture myself. 1:39:02.560 --> 1:39:04.880 I love everything about them. 1:39:05.240 --> 1:39:08.599 And my part of that is again, I was of 1:39:08.640 --> 1:39:11.719 age when they dominated college foot like, so when that happens, 1:39:11.720 --> 1:39:16.800 when you're that age, you never lose it. But no, 1:39:16.960 --> 1:39:19.120 my father was not a Joe Robbie. 1:39:19.240 --> 1:39:24.880 Do you hate University of Florida with a fashion no other? Ye? 1:39:25.160 --> 1:39:29.120 And you consider do you still consider them cheaters? Cheater? 1:39:29.520 --> 1:39:32.559 I mean, any any member of the SEC automatically is 1:39:32.560 --> 1:39:32.920 a cheater. 1:39:33.040 --> 1:39:35.120 But did they get did they get a championship? Did 1:39:35.120 --> 1:39:37.200 they get a championship strip from them in the eighties 1:39:37.280 --> 1:39:37.599 or something. 1:39:39.080 --> 1:39:40.840 Are on probation a couple of times. But no, they 1:39:40.880 --> 1:39:43.559 didn't lose a title. Okay, I don't remember them getting 1:39:43.560 --> 1:39:46.439 a title yanked. Okay, I think I think that happened 1:39:46.439 --> 1:39:47.840 to Kentucky basketball. 1:39:49.000 --> 1:39:51.880 I wouldn't say. I wouldn't wherever John CALLI, wherever John 1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:52.960 Colin goes. 1:39:53.160 --> 1:39:56.000 I just remember this T shirt who says we're not 1:39:56.080 --> 1:39:57.360 champs and it was a Florida Gator. 1:39:59.640 --> 1:40:02.320 Anyway, Yeah, there was a year where they were considered 1:40:02.360 --> 1:40:04.439 the best team, but they were ineligible to go to Do. 1:40:04.360 --> 1:40:06.759 You edit these at all? Do you edit these podcasts? 1:40:06.920 --> 1:40:08.519 I don't like, not know, I like them up? Why 1:40:08.560 --> 1:40:10.639 are you will have to? No, I don't care. I'm 1:40:10.640 --> 1:40:12.439 just want you know, I let it go. I let 1:40:12.479 --> 1:40:14.360 it go. We went too long. This is too long. 1:40:14.360 --> 1:40:16.439 But I don't care. I'm just wondering if people care 1:40:16.479 --> 1:40:18.840 about like my phillies, they'll stop. 1:40:19.320 --> 1:40:22.040 We'll find out only the hardcore people. I mean, you 1:40:22.160 --> 1:40:24.479 learn this, you learn that this is the beauty of 1:40:24.520 --> 1:40:27.519 this medium. I'm surprised you haven't jumped into a podcast world. 1:40:27.560 --> 1:40:29.439 But you know what, I'm not allowed to do yet, 1:40:30.800 --> 1:40:31.680 and in fact. 1:40:31.680 --> 1:40:34.320 In some ways if you if you have you know, 1:40:34.360 --> 1:40:37.040 I always said my first name up until January of 1:40:37.120 --> 1:40:40.320 twenty twenty eight was meat right, and so until your 1:40:40.360 --> 1:40:42.240 your your first name is still going to be c Right. 1:40:42.280 --> 1:40:45.080 For seeing Jake Tapper, and still you could be Jake Tapper. 1:40:45.120 --> 1:40:45.800 I wouldn't do it. 1:40:46.800 --> 1:40:48.800 Yeah, no, I would love to do it. I think 1:40:48.840 --> 1:40:50.360 it looks like you guys are all having so much 1:40:50.360 --> 1:40:52.160 fun and like what people have been able to. 1:40:52.240 --> 1:40:54.360 Let's the fact you can have the longer conversation. I mean, 1:40:54.760 --> 1:40:58.479 my biggest frustration with television interviews is that I think 1:40:58.520 --> 1:41:02.120 that unfortunately the I've to a ten minute interview has 1:41:02.120 --> 1:41:04.599 been what I call perfect. It everybody knows how to 1:41:05.240 --> 1:41:09.240 evade it if necessary. Everybody you know it's performative. And 1:41:09.280 --> 1:41:11.080 I don't mean it in a pejorative way. It just 1:41:11.400 --> 1:41:14.799 it just is. Everybody understands the time limits. Everybody understands 1:41:14.800 --> 1:41:17.240 how you can run out the clock. You know, there's 1:41:17.320 --> 1:41:21.360 it's just much harder now. You can't be an asshole 1:41:21.400 --> 1:41:24.280 on a podcast because you're in people's ear. You want 1:41:24.280 --> 1:41:27.679 to make people uncomfortable with your conversation. But you can 1:41:27.800 --> 1:41:32.719 ask probing questions without being no, you do need time. 1:41:33.120 --> 1:41:35.479 It looks like you guys are all having so much fun, honestly, 1:41:35.520 --> 1:41:39.120 you I mean, and you're all. Everybody's building different things. 1:41:39.160 --> 1:41:43.280 But whether it's you or Crystaliza, or it's Atality or whatever, 1:41:43.400 --> 1:41:45.040 like everybody building different stuff. 1:41:45.120 --> 1:41:46.880 Well, we're in the middle of you know, the history 1:41:46.920 --> 1:41:52.960 of media is new technology fragmentation, consolidation, new technology fragmentation, consolidation. 1:41:53.320 --> 1:41:55.920 You and I both benefited from the initial fragmentation of 1:41:55.960 --> 1:41:59.240 the Internet, right, maybe we got our breaks. I always 1:41:59.280 --> 1:42:01.880 say because of the Internet. Well, guys didn't want to 1:42:01.880 --> 1:42:05.200 do it. And I think streaming is this next thing. 1:42:05.360 --> 1:42:06.760 I don't know what this is going to look like 1:42:06.880 --> 1:42:10.080 in ten years. It's going to get consolidated, but I'm 1:42:10.120 --> 1:42:12.680 hoping to be a consolidator and not to be consolidated. 1:42:12.920 --> 1:42:15.799 But other than that, that's I know, that's what. We're 1:42:15.840 --> 1:42:18.400 in the middle of a disruption. We just don't know 1:42:18.439 --> 1:42:24.080 where the chips plate tectonics. Man, Yeah, everything's moving, Jake Tapper, congrats, 1:42:24.240 --> 1:42:27.120 that's pretty This is bestseller list four weeks in. 1:42:27.080 --> 1:42:28.240 A row, four weeks in a row. 1:42:28.360 --> 1:42:30.559 I know, crazy, right, hang on, man, we were number one, 1:42:31.000 --> 1:42:33.599 number one for two of those weeks, or as Fox 1:42:33.680 --> 1:42:35.360 News says, not selling very well. 1:42:37.000 --> 1:42:38.800 So well there you go. Well I'm sorry you didn't 1:42:38.840 --> 1:42:40.720 have a billionaire just purchase boxes of them. 1:42:40.800 --> 1:42:43.120 No, we sold, we do the web kitting. We're selling 1:42:43.160 --> 1:42:43.840 really really well. 1:42:43.880 --> 1:42:46.040 But it's always like a yeah, this isn't like a 1:42:46.080 --> 1:42:48.559 Donald Trump JUNIORR bestseller right where you just sort of I. 1:42:48.479 --> 1:42:50.759 Didn't mention him by name, but but I will say 1:42:50.800 --> 1:42:53.599 that it was just very funny. Part of the book 1:42:53.640 --> 1:42:56.240 tour that was interesting was and we can talk about 1:42:56.240 --> 1:42:59.320 this over drinks when I'm going to be really candid, 1:42:59.640 --> 1:43:03.080 is just the information the misinformation silos that people are in, 1:43:04.640 --> 1:43:07.160 because people were rooting against this book from the far 1:43:07.240 --> 1:43:09.639 left and the far right, the world of normies and Strage, 1:43:09.880 --> 1:43:12.680 the world of normies in between were very interested in 1:43:12.800 --> 1:43:14.519 embrace the book and bought it, and the reviews were 1:43:14.520 --> 1:43:18.000 great and all that stuff. But it was weird watching 1:43:18.040 --> 1:43:23.400 the misinformation silos and also watching and becoming content for 1:43:23.439 --> 1:43:26.200 a bit, not the book which I want to become content, 1:43:26.240 --> 1:43:27.519 that me becoming content. 1:43:27.680 --> 1:43:30.000 You were content, and I know, which was weird. 1:43:30.400 --> 1:43:32.000 It was just very weird because it's like, who is 1:43:32.040 --> 1:43:36.000 this person they're talking about and I'm not talking about anybody. 1:43:36.000 --> 1:43:38.080 The only other author that that happens, you know that 1:43:38.120 --> 1:43:40.840 happened is that happens to Woodward now these days, and 1:43:40.880 --> 1:43:43.679 it happened. It happens to Michael Wolf all the time 1:43:43.800 --> 1:43:46.280 right these days. Part of that is the way he 1:43:47.040 --> 1:43:50.720 drips out information, But Michael Wolf becomes the story with 1:43:50.800 --> 1:43:51.519 his book sometimes. 1:43:51.560 --> 1:43:52.120 Yeah, and I didn't. 1:43:52.760 --> 1:43:55.160 It was just very You didn't choose this yet, No, no, 1:43:55.200 --> 1:43:58.280 I wanted the scoops to be the news, and for 1:43:58.320 --> 1:44:00.320 the most part they were, but it was it was 1:44:00.360 --> 1:44:03.320 just interesting. It was very interesting because I don't pay 1:44:03.400 --> 1:44:04.960 a ton of attention to the far left and the 1:44:04.960 --> 1:44:10.320 far right when it comes to their misinformation silos, Like 1:44:10.360 --> 1:44:13.080 I just don't like, it's not worth my time for 1:44:13.160 --> 1:44:14.040 people who are You. 1:44:14.000 --> 1:44:16.840 Feel though, that you need to be informed of rabbit holes. 1:44:16.960 --> 1:44:18.720 You need to know what rabbit holes they go down, 1:44:18.760 --> 1:44:20.679 Like I feel like I need to know the rabbit 1:44:20.720 --> 1:44:24.240 holes that I feel like I follow up Carlson or 1:44:24.880 --> 1:44:25.960 Rotar going down. 1:44:26.080 --> 1:44:30.680 Well, but yes, but I feel like I am I 1:44:30.720 --> 1:44:35.360 follow enough people who are rabbit hole adjacent that that 1:44:35.400 --> 1:44:38.240 I'm aware of some self awareness. Yeah, yeah, No, like 1:44:38.280 --> 1:44:42.200 I'm fully aware of Tucker Carlson's interview with Ted Cruz, right, 1:44:42.240 --> 1:44:43.800 I mean, and without having to like. 1:44:43.920 --> 1:44:45.400 But also that's not even a rap. 1:44:45.439 --> 1:44:49.479 I mean, that's that's that's relevant because that's the mag 1:44:49.520 --> 1:44:51.479 of fight and Tucker and Tucker and crews are not 1:44:51.640 --> 1:44:52.479 fringe characters. 1:44:52.479 --> 1:44:55.320 They are they're mainstream characters, but they're they're they're part 1:44:55.320 --> 1:44:55.840 of the act. 1:44:55.960 --> 1:44:59.960 But that said, the misinformation silos were really interesting to watch, 1:45:00.200 --> 1:45:03.840 and also the horseshoe theory of the misinformation silos, but 1:45:03.920 --> 1:45:06.520 we'll talk about that some other time over cocktails. 1:45:06.880 --> 1:45:09.920 Yeah, it's amazing that this whole time where there's a 1:45:09.920 --> 1:45:11.559 news story that's hanging over our head, that we're all 1:45:11.560 --> 1:45:12.280 waiting for it to. 1:45:12.240 --> 1:45:15.559 Be an act. I don't think he's gonna Yeah, well, 1:45:15.560 --> 1:45:18.519 who knows, But you're right, you can't predict I can't. 1:45:18.840 --> 1:45:21.320 And by the time, this is very unpredictable. This is 1:45:21.320 --> 1:45:23.559 going to drop next week. We're taping on a Thursday. 1:45:23.600 --> 1:45:27.040 In this so one would assume that there might be 1:45:27.040 --> 1:45:29.120 breaking news you and I have to cover at some point. 1:45:29.439 --> 1:45:31.000 Well, i'll tell you, let me tell you something about 1:45:31.000 --> 1:45:32.160 it anymore, But who knows. 1:45:33.040 --> 1:45:36.760 Yoav Gallant, the former Defense Secretary for Israel told me 1:45:37.840 --> 1:45:40.120 that just and this will be the last thing to say, 1:45:40.120 --> 1:45:44.000 but he told me on Wednesday on air that Israel 1:45:44.080 --> 1:45:52.479 had degraded Iran's nuclear capability several years and so I thought, oh, well, 1:45:53.040 --> 1:45:56.800 then President Trump doesn't need to bomb the facility at 1:45:56.800 --> 1:45:59.479 four to oh where the nuclear Richmond's going on, because 1:45:59.479 --> 1:46:01.920 now you have a couple extra years before they can 1:46:01.960 --> 1:46:05.320 create a nuclear weapon. Take that opportunity to do the 1:46:05.360 --> 1:46:06.880 diplomatic solution, which is I think what. 1:46:06.840 --> 1:46:07.760 Trump wants to do. 1:46:08.520 --> 1:46:11.720 But I think he's also he's really you know, he's 1:46:11.720 --> 1:46:12.879 really into this concept. 1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:16.000 Look as much, look as much as I I think 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:19.639 he's you know, temperamentally, you know, you there's probably three 1:46:19.720 --> 1:46:22.800 hundred and twenty nine million other people that temporarily might 1:46:22.840 --> 1:46:26.080 be better prepared for dealing with some of these situations. 1:46:27.800 --> 1:46:30.400 He's been jammed. And it's not an easy decision. 1:46:30.640 --> 1:46:33.920 No resident would be sitting here because I know, one 1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:36.559 one one, you have some staffers that are going, look, 1:46:37.200 --> 1:46:39.519 they've never been this degraded. You've never You'll never have 1:46:39.600 --> 1:46:42.080 a better chance to wipe this out than right right now, 1:46:42.200 --> 1:46:43.760 And if you don't take it, you may not have 1:46:43.840 --> 1:46:46.040 another chance, so yes, And on the other hand, what 1:46:46.120 --> 1:46:47.160 if it doesn't work right? 1:46:47.200 --> 1:46:49.960 On the other hand, rock right on the other hand, Afghania, 1:46:50.080 --> 1:46:52.720 rock right exactly. In the other hand, Syria. On the 1:46:52.800 --> 1:46:57.040 other hand, Benghazi, yeahah, no, it is there's I'm not 1:46:57.800 --> 1:47:00.679 you know, we all give. It's easy to give. 1:47:01.439 --> 1:47:03.200 I mean, I can't believe he like, lets us all 1:47:03.240 --> 1:47:07.040 watch this, you know, the sort of indecisiveness and real time. 1:47:07.680 --> 1:47:10.880 But he isn't it. He's been put into a corner. 1:47:11.880 --> 1:47:12.639 It's not easy. 1:47:13.960 --> 1:47:17.240 Yeah. I don't know if sympathy is the right word, but. 1:47:17.200 --> 1:47:20.519 I look, this is the job you wanted to be president. 1:47:20.880 --> 1:47:21.760 You know there was that. 1:47:21.800 --> 1:47:23.519 You know, Obama used to talk about it, right, mare, 1:47:23.560 --> 1:47:25.240 He used to say this all the time. One the 1:47:25.320 --> 1:47:27.599 decisions that gets to my desk are the ones nobody 1:47:27.600 --> 1:47:28.240 else wanted to make. 1:47:28.479 --> 1:47:28.679 Right. 1:47:29.160 --> 1:47:32.160 This is the this is the definition of that. Yes, 1:47:32.320 --> 1:47:35.160 are you do you want to write? It's all out there, 1:47:35.200 --> 1:47:36.479 But yeah, perfect Tapper. 1:47:37.000 --> 1:47:40.719 We we did our little We let people in on something. 1:47:40.720 --> 1:47:43.280 Maybe we'll say, all right, please, buddy, I'll talk to 1:47:43.280 --> 1:47:56.520 you soon. Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Appreciated. 1:47:56.640 --> 1:47:59.799 Like I said, Jake, and I we grew up professionally together, 1:47:59.880 --> 1:48:02.880 so and we will fight like brothers, and we will 1:48:02.880 --> 1:48:07.719 compete like brothers, and we will protect each other like brothers. 1:48:08.320 --> 1:48:10.200 Let me move to a couple questions, and then I 1:48:10.200 --> 1:48:15.280 want to share with share with you a family family 1:48:15.280 --> 1:48:18.840 thing that I just I feel like sharing because it's 1:48:18.840 --> 1:48:20.800 been it's been a tough day. But I'll get to 1:48:20.800 --> 1:48:21.320 that in a minute. 1:48:21.560 --> 1:48:22.240 Ask Chuck. 1:48:25.400 --> 1:48:27.120 First couple questions is when it comes from Joe D 1:48:27.280 --> 1:48:32.479 from Santa Maria, California. Howdy, Chuck, have been a follower 1:48:32.479 --> 1:48:34.519 of yours since you joined NBC in two thousand and eight. 1:48:34.520 --> 1:48:36.439 Appreciate all you do. Who would you put on the 1:48:36.479 --> 1:48:38.960 Mount Rushmore of Washington DC media figures from the last 1:48:38.960 --> 1:48:41.719 fifty years in nineteen seventy five? Where would Tim Russer 1:48:41.840 --> 1:48:42.559 fit into that? 1:48:42.720 --> 1:48:43.120 Thank you? 1:48:43.240 --> 1:48:47.160 Well, look, I think since nineteen seventy five. Well, that 1:48:47.400 --> 1:48:52.200 just talk about your recency bias, right, you know? For me, 1:48:52.320 --> 1:48:54.240 I just I guess I look at it at the 1:48:54.320 --> 1:48:57.040 people I trust, So you'd have to put cronkite on there. 1:48:58.040 --> 1:49:00.880 David Brinkley, you know, one of the proudest things for 1:49:01.000 --> 1:49:07.360 me at NBC I my desk in my office was 1:49:07.439 --> 1:49:09.880 David Brinkley's desk. It was actually one half of David 1:49:09.880 --> 1:49:10.519 Brinkley's desk. 1:49:10.560 --> 1:49:14.000 He had this monster desk that had one of those 1:49:14.040 --> 1:49:16.400 like old school like it was. 1:49:16.479 --> 1:49:19.240 It was, you know, it had had two sides to it. 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:21.600 It was like L shaped. Well you know, the L 1:49:21.680 --> 1:49:25.320 had been long gone, but I had the one part 1:49:25.640 --> 1:49:28.360 of it. And you know, I always thought it was 1:49:28.360 --> 1:49:31.320 a nice homage that I was sitting in Tim Russell's chair, 1:49:31.360 --> 1:49:35.320 working in David Brinkley's David Brinkley's desk. So I put 1:49:35.400 --> 1:49:39.600 Brinkley Cronkite, and I'm yeah, I'm going to be a 1:49:39.600 --> 1:49:42.479 homer here, and I do Brokaw and Russard, but that's 1:49:42.479 --> 1:49:47.599 your TV, because if you'd make me do reporters, I'd 1:49:47.600 --> 1:49:51.160 want to throw David Broder on there, particularly for political reporters. 1:49:52.000 --> 1:49:53.560 So I don't know, I don't know if i'd have 1:49:53.680 --> 1:49:56.760 enough room for four slots on that front. But I 1:49:56.800 --> 1:49:59.600 look at sort of the people that helped explain politics. 1:49:59.720 --> 1:50:02.559 I think in a way that was understandable. David Brinkley 1:50:03.080 --> 1:50:04.800 I think did it as well as anybody. 1:50:04.840 --> 1:50:05.160 First. 1:50:05.200 --> 1:50:07.439 I mean, I remember Tom Broke telling me, you know 1:50:07.520 --> 1:50:09.680 when I sort of got handed the baton. He said, Man, 1:50:09.760 --> 1:50:12.760 NBC has always been you know, he says, CBS kind 1:50:12.800 --> 1:50:15.519 of ate our lunch in the coverage of Vietnam. That's 1:50:15.560 --> 1:50:18.559 what he once told me, he said, But nobody topped 1:50:18.640 --> 1:50:22.720 NBC for politics David Brinkley. Then from Brinkley, I went 1:50:22.760 --> 1:50:26.479 to Brokon Russert, and yes, I took the baton from there. 1:50:26.520 --> 1:50:28.919 So that's always mine. It was one of the challenges 1:50:28.920 --> 1:50:31.160 I gave to Kristen Welker's. I reminded her of that 1:50:31.200 --> 1:50:36.040 conversation that that broke all once had with me on 1:50:36.080 --> 1:50:39.120 that front. So you know, we took pride at NBC 1:50:39.320 --> 1:50:40.920 that we were sort of we had the best poll 1:50:41.880 --> 1:50:45.120 in the NBC News poll. It is the gold standard, 1:50:45.120 --> 1:50:48.719 has been the gold standard. And I encouraged my friends 1:50:48.800 --> 1:50:49.240 over there. 1:50:52.040 --> 1:50:53.080 Do you know that. 1:50:53.760 --> 1:50:55.760 I know there's a lot of cheaper polling out there, 1:50:56.600 --> 1:50:59.240 but remember, you get what you pay for. That's all 1:50:59.280 --> 1:51:02.000 I will say, you get what you pay for on 1:51:02.040 --> 1:51:06.960 that front. So i'd have again TV side, I gave 1:51:06.960 --> 1:51:12.120 it to you, Cronkite, Brinkley, Brokeaw Russer. I'd put those 1:51:12.160 --> 1:51:13.760 four up there for now. 1:51:13.800 --> 1:51:14.560 But that's. 1:51:16.320 --> 1:51:19.599 Either's so many other places. I would want Chip to 1:51:19.640 --> 1:51:22.800 sort of put up put up others on there as well. 1:51:23.520 --> 1:51:26.240 Second question here comes from Andy g Andy from LA 1:51:26.400 --> 1:51:28.559 home of the Dodgers. What should happen if the Nats 1:51:28.560 --> 1:51:33.439 get swept by the worst team in baseball history? The 1:51:33.520 --> 1:51:35.519 Nats gets swept by, Well, we did, thanks a lot. 1:51:35.680 --> 1:51:38.280 It's the Colorado Rockies. Here's a chance for some therapy, 1:51:38.400 --> 1:51:41.920 like Fraser Crane, I'm listening. Well, it's funny you bring 1:51:42.000 --> 1:51:46.080 this up. I think the Knats at least got one 1:51:46.160 --> 1:51:50.640 from the Dodgers. It was my son sort of called it. 1:51:50.680 --> 1:51:52.479 He says, we'll win the middle game and get blown 1:51:52.479 --> 1:51:54.400 out in Game three. Well, sure enough, we got blown 1:51:54.400 --> 1:51:57.040 out in Game three. On that front, I was glad 1:51:57.040 --> 1:52:00.000 to see James Wood, though, hit one of the fartherish 1:52:00.080 --> 1:52:05.400 home runs I've seen in Dodger Stadium that I can remember. 1:52:05.800 --> 1:52:06.240 I know it. 1:52:06.400 --> 1:52:09.160 Think it's Willie Stargel that has the longest home run 1:52:09.240 --> 1:52:11.960 in history out of Dodger Stadium, if I'm not mistaken Andy, 1:52:12.320 --> 1:52:15.960 But I was happy to see James Woods show up 1:52:17.280 --> 1:52:20.280 and uh and and make sure people saw that. Look, 1:52:20.320 --> 1:52:22.599 I'm gonna be frank here. I think the fact that 1:52:22.640 --> 1:52:24.880 there's been no firing of the manager, and I'm I'm 1:52:24.960 --> 1:52:26.760 kind of a Davy guy, although I didn't like that 1:52:26.800 --> 1:52:29.840 attack the players, So it may be that it's time 1:52:29.880 --> 1:52:35.439 for Sometimes managers need need a need, a new need, 1:52:35.479 --> 1:52:38.640 a just you know, players need a new voice in 1:52:38.680 --> 1:52:41.520 their ears, and managers need a new set of players 1:52:41.560 --> 1:52:45.800 for their old stories type of type of thing. But 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:50.080 I'll tell you what distresses me. I fear that the 1:52:50.200 --> 1:52:53.840 reason to keep Davy was not to keep Davy. I 1:52:53.880 --> 1:52:56.080 fear that this was a franchise that doesn't want to 1:52:56.120 --> 1:52:58.519 pay two managers right because if you fire one early, 1:52:58.560 --> 1:53:02.240 you still got to pay the person. And I continue 1:53:02.280 --> 1:53:05.320 to believe that the biggest problem that has is that 1:53:05.400 --> 1:53:07.719 it's not clear if the owners are committed to owning 1:53:07.760 --> 1:53:11.200 the team, And right now they are behaving like a 1:53:11.600 --> 1:53:14.440 set of owners that are not fully committed to the team, 1:53:14.800 --> 1:53:17.120 that are they going to sell or not, etc. And 1:53:18.160 --> 1:53:21.479 if you don't think that trickles down to employees, go 1:53:21.520 --> 1:53:23.639 talk to folks at CNN right now who are about 1:53:23.640 --> 1:53:25.599 to get spun off. Go talk to folks at CBS 1:53:25.640 --> 1:53:28.360 who are wondering what Paramount's going to do. Trust me, 1:53:28.400 --> 1:53:31.840 employees pay attention to this stuff when owners are messing 1:53:31.880 --> 1:53:38.920 around and it impacts morale. Don't think it doesn't. All right, 1:53:38.960 --> 1:53:41.680 I'm gonna I'm gonna pause my questions there. I got 1:53:41.680 --> 1:53:43.479 a bunch of other great questions, but I got a 1:53:43.479 --> 1:53:46.240 bunch of episodes later this week answering. Look, I want 1:53:46.280 --> 1:53:47.559 to share something with you. We had to put our 1:53:47.560 --> 1:53:52.519 dog down today, and I just want to tell you 1:53:52.520 --> 1:53:57.640 about Ruby. She's fourteen, and it's been really hard for 1:53:57.680 --> 1:53:59.519 my two kids. It's been hard for me. It's been 1:53:59.520 --> 1:54:01.840 hard for my wife. It's been hard for my two kids. 1:54:01.840 --> 1:54:05.000 They're eighteen and twenty one, and Ruby's fourteen. So think 1:54:05.000 --> 1:54:07.720 about it, right, My son was four when we got her. 1:54:08.160 --> 1:54:11.240 My daughter was seven when we got her. Right, this 1:54:11.320 --> 1:54:13.360 is not the first dog we've lost as a family, 1:54:13.439 --> 1:54:18.200 but this is the first dog that we've lost. They 1:54:19.400 --> 1:54:22.880 my kids grew up with Ruby. In fact, I mean, 1:54:23.280 --> 1:54:25.360 you guys will laugh. We get she got the name 1:54:26.479 --> 1:54:28.439 because I remember we go pick them up and we're 1:54:28.439 --> 1:54:30.200 trying to figure out and we got the runt of 1:54:30.240 --> 1:54:35.040 the litter with standard shoe, standard poodle, and we didn't 1:54:35.040 --> 1:54:36.880 want too big of a dog. So I was always okay, 1:54:36.880 --> 1:54:38.640 I was like, no, no, no, let's get the smaller. We 1:54:38.680 --> 1:54:41.000 already had a we had a we had a mini 1:54:41.400 --> 1:54:44.160 mini poodle, miniature poodle. So we were like, all right, 1:54:44.240 --> 1:54:45.880 let's get small. We don't want to We don't want 1:54:46.600 --> 1:54:49.680 our little guy Mikey to get overwhelmed by a huge 1:54:49.720 --> 1:54:54.160 standard poodle. So you know, and so we're trying to 1:54:54.200 --> 1:54:57.360 come up with the name. Well, at the time, and 1:54:57.440 --> 1:55:00.000 anybody whose parents have kids of that age will remember 1:55:00.680 --> 1:55:03.960 my son's favorite show at four Boys. He's going to 1:55:04.040 --> 1:55:05.600 be mad at me for bringing this up, but he's 1:55:05.640 --> 1:55:06.880 not going to be mad for the reason I did 1:55:06.960 --> 1:55:11.160 was Max and Ruby. And if you plot the show 1:55:11.280 --> 1:55:13.720 was the plot of that show was basically somehow these 1:55:13.760 --> 1:55:16.560 two kids never had adult supervision. They went on all 1:55:16.680 --> 1:55:20.080 these tracks and the big sister Ruby let around. Max 1:55:20.240 --> 1:55:22.360 was always keeping little Max. 1:55:22.120 --> 1:55:26.440 Out of trouble. So uh and that damn song Max 1:55:26.520 --> 1:55:30.960 and Ruby, Ruby and Max, Well somehow it you know, 1:55:31.080 --> 1:55:33.240 you're coming up with a name, and it had to 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:33.720 be Ruby. 1:55:35.880 --> 1:55:39.160 So she was a good dog. She had a hard 1:55:39.240 --> 1:55:42.240 last couple of years, hard last couple of years at 1:55:42.400 --> 1:55:47.320 kidney failure, liver failure, all those things, and she was 1:55:47.480 --> 1:55:51.360 spent a Trooper. It's one of those couple of years 1:55:51.360 --> 1:55:53.800 ago we were told was never going to get better, 1:55:56.160 --> 1:55:59.720 but we just wanted to make sure that she was, 1:56:00.360 --> 1:56:04.760 that she could live a comfortable life. And then when 1:56:04.800 --> 1:56:08.680 she couldn't, we wanted to know, and we figured she'd 1:56:08.760 --> 1:56:14.720 let us know, and unfortunately she did. But man, you know, 1:56:15.520 --> 1:56:17.480 I know we're not the only family that's ever lost 1:56:17.480 --> 1:56:20.680 a pet. We're not the only family that treats pets 1:56:20.760 --> 1:56:21.280 like family. 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:21.840 We all do. 1:56:23.800 --> 1:56:27.080 But it's uh, it's it. 1:56:28.640 --> 1:56:30.600 Well, you're reminded, and it's so true. 1:56:30.920 --> 1:56:33.240 No matter how bad my day was, my dog Ruby 1:56:33.320 --> 1:56:35.360 was always happy to see me, especially if I give 1:56:35.360 --> 1:56:38.160 her a treat. She was always happy to see me, 1:56:38.280 --> 1:56:41.080 especially when I was cooking and would accidentally, well not 1:56:41.160 --> 1:56:44.200 so accidentally, drop stuff on the floor for her. So, 1:56:44.880 --> 1:56:47.960 you know, in a vicious town, right, Harry Truman said 1:56:47.960 --> 1:56:50.000 it best right, If you want a friend in Washington, 1:56:50.120 --> 1:56:55.160 get a dog. It's more true every day, as toxic 1:56:55.200 --> 1:56:58.760 as things get. And I think it says something my neighborhood. 1:56:58.880 --> 1:57:03.440 I'm sure so many neighborhoods, particularly after COVID, I think 1:57:03.480 --> 1:57:06.360 there are now more houses with dogs, more families with 1:57:06.440 --> 1:57:10.920 dogs than families without dogs, and this, and and cats too. 1:57:10.920 --> 1:57:12.880 I don't want to leave out my my, my, my 1:57:12.920 --> 1:57:15.720 friends with cat cats out there. Cats are very much 1:57:16.160 --> 1:57:17.760 I grew up with a cat, and I know that 1:57:17.800 --> 1:57:21.959 there's that. They're also sometimes not sometimes not as lovable. 1:57:22.680 --> 1:57:25.360 Cats are so clever, right, They make you earn you know, 1:57:25.480 --> 1:57:29.280 they want you to earn their love if you will. 1:57:29.760 --> 1:57:33.280 Dogs have that loyalty to them that that sometimes can't 1:57:33.280 --> 1:57:39.880 be can't be can't be imitated. But anyway, I I'm 1:57:39.960 --> 1:57:43.640 just sharing because it's it's one of those things you 1:57:43.960 --> 1:57:46.960 kind of just just I just want you to love 1:57:46.960 --> 1:57:51.320 my dog, love your dog as much as I love mine. 1:57:52.080 --> 1:57:53.680 All right with that? You know? 1:57:54.320 --> 1:57:57.760 C the Sarah McLoughlin, uh and I will see you 1:57:58.160 --> 1:57:59.240 the next time we unload