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Speaker 1: Happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Todcast.

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Speaker 1: Obviously a pretty momentous weekend as far as America's national

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Speaker 1: security is concerned. I'm going to get to that in

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Speaker 1: a second. I just want to give you a quick

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Speaker 1: rundown of what to expect on this episode. So I've

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Speaker 1: got a couple things to say about the current situation

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East, a little preview on New York

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Speaker 1: City mayor, which I think this primary could be the

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Speaker 1: most consequential Democratic primary until twenty twenty eight, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not as far as the Democratic Party's brand is concerned.

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Speaker 1: Then I have an interesting interview with a longtime pal

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Speaker 1: and co author of the book Original Sin. It's Jake Tapper.

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Speaker 1: And then after that we'll do a few questions, and

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Speaker 1: I got a little family update I want to share

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Speaker 1: with you at the very end, But let me begin

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Speaker 1: with what happened on Saturday. So let's start with the obvious.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those moments that's still hard to

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Speaker 1: process in real time. I think most people, regardless of ideology,

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Speaker 1: are going to wish this operation against Iran turns out

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Speaker 1: to be a success. I count myself among those who

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Speaker 1: do but I'm also among those who are deeply uneasy

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Speaker 1: with this decision, because what if we just opened a

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Speaker 1: door we can't close. Let me back up for a

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Speaker 1: moment and remind folks how we got here. For all

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Speaker 1: its failures, nuclear deterrence has actually worked more often than not.

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Speaker 1: The number of countries with nuclear weapons is fairly limited,

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Speaker 1: and in some cases we've actually seen nations abandon their

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Speaker 1: ambitions entirely. Brazil did South Africa, did Libya, And while

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Speaker 1: each case was different, the idea of preventing a nuclear

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Speaker 1: arms race in the Middle East has always been a

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Speaker 1: core tenet of global security strategy, not just the United

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Speaker 1: States that fear a nuclear Iran has haunted multiple US

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Speaker 1: presidents because if Iran go's nuclear, then so to Saudi Arabia,

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Speaker 1: and so to the Amritis. Egypt will want one, and

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Speaker 1: suddenly we're living in a new Cold War, but in

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Speaker 1: the hottest region on Earth. So yes, preventing Iran from

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Speaker 1: acquiring a nuclear weapon is a broadly supported objective, But

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Speaker 1: that's not the same thing as saying bombing is the

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Speaker 1: only or best way to achieve that goal. Let's not

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Speaker 1: kid ourselves. This was a choice. There's a famous question.

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Speaker 1: One of my predecessors that meet the Press once put

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Speaker 1: to George W. Bush about the Iraq War a war

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Speaker 1: of necessity or a war of choice. It was a

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Speaker 1: question that he never fully answered, but in hindsight, it

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Speaker 1: certainly looks like it was a war of choice. This

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Speaker 1: decision was a choice. There were other ways to go.

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Speaker 1: President Trump, though, now owns this choice. It is perhaps

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Speaker 1: the single most consequential decision he has made and may

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Speaker 1: make for either one of his terms as president. There

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Speaker 1: was no inminent threat. There wasn't even a preemptive strike.

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Speaker 1: This was at best a preventative strike, and it's a

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Speaker 1: very risky one at that. Now, look, if there's one

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Speaker 1: constant in Trump's foreign policy instincts, it is this. He

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Speaker 1: believes in maximum pressure and minimal consultation. He thinks he

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Speaker 1: can air strike his way out of problems, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I use the word airstrike metaphorically, like tariffs are kind

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Speaker 1: of his version of this. He thinks he can do

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Speaker 1: this economically, militarily, diplomatically, and maybe he can in an

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Speaker 1: instance or two. Many of us should hope he's right

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Speaker 1: about this one. I do, because the alternative could be

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Speaker 1: a hell of a lot worse. But this just isn't

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Speaker 1: a regional skirmish. This reverberates across the globe. Think about

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Speaker 1: the signal that sends to Ukraine. America is slow walking

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Speaker 1: its commitment there while fast tracking a bombing campaign in Iran.

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Speaker 1: If your president Zelenski, you're just shaking your head. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're Vladimir Putin watching this unfold, you're thinking good.

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Speaker 1: The Americans are distracted, and we get to keep testing

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Speaker 1: the limits. America is going to be more focused on

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Speaker 1: that than us. And of course there's the supposed alliance

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Speaker 1: between Russia and Iran. But let's be honest. We've seen

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Speaker 1: some early rhetoric from Medvedev and some others. Russia is

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Speaker 1: not going to stick its neck out for Iran. Putin

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Speaker 1: is transactional, not fully ideological, and he knows he's got

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Speaker 1: the best US president he'll ever have when it comes

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Speaker 1: to his ambition in Ukraine. Why mess that up by

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Speaker 1: irritating him in Iran? Trust me, he does. He will

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Speaker 1: trade Iran for Ukraine in a heartbeat. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if Tehran knows that yet. Iran may get some

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Speaker 1: rhetorical support that they got, but when it comes to

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Speaker 1: real resources. I have a feeling that going to be

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Speaker 1: on their own. We'll see. But if you're him, and

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Speaker 1: you know you're dealing with a bit of an erratic guy,

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Speaker 1: and Donald Trump, do you want to test the limits?

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Speaker 1: And suddenly he's decided, Oh, I'll fully arm Ukraine, let's go. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: what kind of message is being sent to other countries

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Speaker 1: teetering on the nuclear threshold? North Korea built its arsenal,

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Speaker 1: and like it or not, they secured kind of leverage.

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Speaker 1: They have their own nuclear umbrella that protects them. Libya

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Speaker 1: gave up its program back in the early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: and how long did Kadafi get to stay in power?

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Speaker 1: That history is not going to be lost on Iranian hardliners.

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Speaker 1: What if, in the under the guise of trying to

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Speaker 1: prevent Iran from gaining a nuclear weapon, we just sped

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Speaker 1: up their ambition. Just something to ponder here for a minute. Now, Look,

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Speaker 1: it's impossible to talk about this without acknowledging Israel's role.

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Speaker 1: And I know there's some folks out here who are

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Speaker 1: angry at Israel over how they've managed Gaza and how

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Speaker 1: they've dealt with the humanitarian crisis that's unfolding there.

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Speaker 2: But two things can be true at the.

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Speaker 1: Same time, that how they've handled Gaza and how they've

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Speaker 1: done the humanitarian aspect of this has been atrocious, and

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Speaker 1: at the same time it's a righteous cause to go

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Speaker 1: after Iran. Iran is not a good regime. These are

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Speaker 1: bad people, committed to doing bad things, committed to the eradication.

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Speaker 1: The people do not share our values. They don't share

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Speaker 1: a lot of values with anybody who's high character.

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Speaker 2: So look, that's just a fact.

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Speaker 1: But still Israel played a major role in cornering the

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Speaker 1: United States into this air strike. Israel's government has been

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Speaker 1: increasingly skeptical, if not hostile, to diplomacy with Iran. They

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Speaker 1: didn't like the first Iran agreement and they were petrified

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Speaker 1: Trump would do a similar agreement. And then you can't

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Speaker 1: ignore themestic political contests in Israel. The bombing occurred just

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Speaker 1: hours before Prime Minister in Natya, who was set to

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Speaker 1: face a no confidence vote where two of his furthest

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Speaker 1: right hardline parties were thinking about essentially bolting the coalition

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Speaker 1: and forcing an election. A coincidence perhaps, but the political

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Speaker 1: incentives for escalation are undeniable there for him. Look net Now,

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Speaker 1: whose views on Iran as an. He does view Iran

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Speaker 1: as an existential threat, and he sees this moment as

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Speaker 1: a rare opportunity. Iran is very weak internally divided, They've

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Speaker 1: lost key regional footholds in Syria and Lebanon. Israel, of course,

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Speaker 1: couldn't get rid of the nukes on their own because

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Speaker 1: they didn't have that kind of weaponry. They needed US

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Speaker 1: muscle and they got it. And here's something that is

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Speaker 1: probably going to be an unpopular take with many of you.

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Speaker 1: I believe it wouldn't have mattered who was US president.

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Speaker 1: I think this bombing campaign would have happened under Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris presidency as well. Why do I think that The

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Speaker 1: only difference is and I talked with a few experts

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Speaker 1: on this, the only difference is, I don't think bb

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Speaker 1: waited sixty days. He gave Trump sixty days. I don't

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Speaker 1: think Bib was going to wait sixty days. But either way,

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Speaker 1: he was going to corner the next American president regardless

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Speaker 1: to sort of force. Because once Israel attacked Iran, there

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Speaker 1: was no pulling back, there was no amount they were

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Speaker 1: there was no diplomacy left to have. It wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: mattered if it was a President Harris or a President Trump,

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Speaker 1: and then the moment of truth would have come. And again,

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Speaker 1: this was a strategic you know, there's no doubt he was.

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Speaker 1: He was persuaded that this was a strategic opportunity that

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Speaker 1: any president that the previous presidents never had a chance

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Speaker 1: at having to attack Iran with no Hesbala to worry about,

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Speaker 1: to attack Iran with no none of theirs with with

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Speaker 1: with a sod already out of power. So these were

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Speaker 1: things that a Bush didn't have, an Obama didn't have,

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Speaker 1: even a Biden didn't have. So I'm not saying it's

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Speaker 1: a guarantee that this happens under either presidency, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's more likely than many of you may realize

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Speaker 1: because of the circumstances, because Israel was going to force

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Speaker 1: the hand of the next American president regardless. They did

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Speaker 1: not view any sort of deal, sanctioned relief as anything

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Speaker 1: that was going to be helpful to them in the region,

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Speaker 1: and they've been on the front line of these attacks

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Speaker 1: from Iran for a generation. Make no mistake, Okay, it

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Speaker 1: is two different things. Now, Look, what was in America's

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Speaker 1: best interest was not necessarily an Israel's best interest. But still,

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Speaker 1: even if this mission was tactically successful, let's not pretend

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Speaker 1: we've solved this problem. We didn't bomb knowledge out of existence.

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Speaker 1: We didn't erase blueprints or erase ambition. At best, we

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Speaker 1: delayed a program. At worst, we may have provoked something

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Speaker 1: we fully don't understand. On this and again the idea

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Speaker 1: that they could speed up now and in desperation try

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Speaker 1: to get something again with North Korea as the model.

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Speaker 2: There.

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Speaker 1: What was most striking though about Trump's remarks to the nation,

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Speaker 1: and this is where I think he deserves a big

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Speaker 1: fat f for presidenting if you want a great amoun

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Speaker 1: being president. Those remarks after the strike were just vapid.

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Speaker 1: They told us nothing. It was some sort of I

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Speaker 1: guess spiking of the football, but he didn't explain why

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Speaker 1: he did it. There was no rationale given. There was

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Speaker 1: no effort to explain the stakes, There was no attempt

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Speaker 1: to reassure allies. There was no vision for what comes next.

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Speaker 1: There was a few vague lines about security, deterrence, strength, thanking,

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Speaker 1: the Israelis talking about teamwork, but make the case. Look,

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Speaker 1: this is not an easy call. A majority of this

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Speaker 1: country did not think this was a good idea, so

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Speaker 1: you should at least make the case. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that he didn't do that, I mean this is Look,

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Speaker 1: this is sort of par for the course for him,

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Speaker 1: and the lack of making a case, he's actually created

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Speaker 1: a vacuum here because the absence of a narrative and

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Speaker 1: the absence of a clear rationale for doing this will

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Speaker 1: create confusion it already is, and that leads to fear,

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Speaker 1: and that could create markets for misinformation and propaganda. But

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Speaker 1: of course this is a pattern. Trump often pursues goals

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Speaker 1: that might have a majority supporting him. For those goals,

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Speaker 1: arrange and have a nuclear weapon, we should bring more

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Speaker 1: manufacturing back to America, we should reform government. But it's

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Speaker 1: the way he goes about this. They're reckless, they're opeg

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Speaker 1: and they're frankly destabilizing, whether it's Tariff's deportations, this military operation.

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Speaker 1: He does it with the assumption that the spectacle is

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Speaker 1: enough to justify the action, but the way he goes

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Speaker 1: about it makes it more unpopular than the initial goal was.

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Speaker 1: So now what let's talk about the fallout. We'll thought

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Speaker 1: global and domestic first. The geopolitical risk asymmetric retaliation. Aroan

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the military strength for a conventional war, but

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Speaker 1: it can cause chaos throughout proxies, through proxies, cyber attacks,

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Speaker 1: and terrorism, and we could experience that in American cities. Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C, New York, LA. All three cities should be

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Speaker 1: on high alert again something the President of the United

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Speaker 1: States should have at least acknowledged the risk here, because

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Speaker 1: he alone made this decision, and he has now put

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Speaker 1: American lives, more American lives at risk today than we're

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Speaker 1: at risk yesterday. Second, there's a political risk, the silence

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Speaker 1: of Congress once again. Congress has been sidelined. The War

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Speaker 1: Powers Act is being tested again, if not outright ignored. Okay,

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Speaker 1: And while some Democrats are criticizing the Moon, many Republicans

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Speaker 1: are staying quiet. They're caught between what feels like their

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Speaker 1: traditional hawkish roots and of course their loyalty to Trump.

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Speaker 1: But this is now Trump's war to manage, his chaos,

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Speaker 1: to contain, and his blowback to absorb. You know, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: In two hundred days he has done what normally presidents

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Speaker 1: don't want to do in their first two hundred days.

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Speaker 1: He has made it impossible to have to worry about

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Speaker 1: blaming a predecessor for anything. He has turned the economy

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Speaker 1: upside down with his tariffs. It is now the Trump economy,

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Speaker 1: for better or for worse. And now he has turned

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Speaker 1: essentially the war the world upside down. And he did it.

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Speaker 1: It was a choice. And ironically for a man who

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Speaker 1: professes America first and seems to tip his hat to

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Speaker 1: the isolationist history of the Republican Party that goes back

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Speaker 1: one hundred years, this is the action of somebody that

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Speaker 1: believes America should be the world's beat cop. Because that's

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Speaker 1: essentially that's about the only rationale you could give to

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Speaker 1: me that might persuade me why America had to do this?

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Speaker 1: Who else could do it but America? And who else

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Speaker 1: is looking out for the world but America. But every

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Speaker 1: time you ask the country whether they want America to

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Speaker 1: be the world's beat cop, the answer is usually a

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Speaker 1: resounding no. Now, I'm always one of those people that

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Speaker 1: actually is for it, some of you've heard me say before,

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Speaker 1: because I always say, if we're not the world's beat cop,

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Speaker 1: somebody else is going to be and we're not going.

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Speaker 2: To like it.

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Speaker 1: But let's I do think the single most important question

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Speaker 1: he's got to answer to the American people is the following,

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Speaker 1: Did this action make the world safer?

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Speaker 2: Did it make America safer?

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Speaker 1: Maybe in the long run we'll look back and say, yes,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is a needed course correction, and this will

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Speaker 1: create new momentum to halt nuclear proliferation. But right now,

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Speaker 1: in the near term, it doesn't feel that way. What

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Speaker 1: it feels like is more instability, more uncertainty, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: more isolation for the United States. If you thought we

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Speaker 1: were unpopular before with the tariffs, where we threatened the

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Speaker 1: economic lives of not just Americans but everybody around the world, wait,

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Speaker 1: do you see how we're received on this one.

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Speaker 2: And here's one final thought.

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Speaker 1: If this really was the only option left, if diplomacy

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Speaker 1: had truly failed, if every other path had been exhausted,

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Speaker 1: then make that case to the American people. That's what

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Speaker 1: you use your remarks to the American people to do.

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Speaker 1: Don't treat this like a tweet, which it did. Don't

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Speaker 1: make it look like a reaction to Israel or a

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Speaker 1: political ploy to distract from domestic failures. Own it, justify it.

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Speaker 1: He's owned it. I don't think he's given us a

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Speaker 1: good justification yet, And certainly he's not explained it to us,

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Speaker 1: because if you can't do that, you're not leading at

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Speaker 1: this point, you're simply gambling. So look, it's a you know,

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Speaker 1: I do think I in my Newsphere show, which is

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Speaker 1: live right now on the Newsphere app. If you have subscribed,

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Speaker 1: I hope you have taken a trial and taken a look.

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Speaker 1: I had three guests this week. One was Stephen Cook,

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Speaker 1: who's a member of the Council on fordin Relations, written

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Speaker 1: a terrific book about sort of the Middle East and Iran,

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Speaker 1: and we discussed what regime change could look like on there.

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Speaker 1: It's a really good interview. I hope you take a

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Speaker 1: chance to listen to it. But he was the person

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Speaker 1: and we were talking quite a bit after our interview

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Speaker 1: about this, you know, how inevitable was this? And he

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Speaker 1: sort of concurs with me that this was what nothing

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Speaker 1: that that the it was certainly inevitable that the Israelis

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Speaker 1: were never going to stop at Iran and they weren't

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Speaker 1: going to take no from an American president on that.

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Speaker 2: On that front, my second of view was with Eric Swawa.

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Speaker 1: He's a Democratic congressman represents the East Bay of the

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Speaker 1: Bay Area in California. H he has been, he has

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Speaker 1: served on the House Intelligence Committee, he himself ran for president,

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Speaker 1: and he is somebody who is caught, I think, in.

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Speaker 2: The middle here.

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Speaker 1: He does not like how the President went about doing this,

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Speaker 1: and certainly also wants to see Iran stop from developing

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Speaker 1: a nuclear weapon.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: One of the things he talked with me about is

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Speaker 1: the challenge Democrats are going to have. He thinks there's

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Speaker 1: going to be bipartisan agreement that how how the White

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Speaker 1: House informed Congress was just awful, you know, And and

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Speaker 1: it certainly appears as if the President refused us to

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Speaker 1: work with Democrats, even when the law states that they

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Speaker 1: have to inform the entire Gang of Eight what they're doing,

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Speaker 1: including the Democratic ranking members of Intel Armed Services, that

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Speaker 1: Senate Democratic Leader in the House Democratic Leader. It appears

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Speaker 1: that they only told the Senate Democratic Leader because they

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Speaker 1: knew he'd be the most supportive Chuck Schumer of the

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Speaker 1: action against Iran, and didn't bother telling King Jeffreyes doesn't appear.

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Speaker 1: Mark Warner was told, who is the vice chair of

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Speaker 1: the Senate Intel Committee.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't appear.

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Speaker 1: Jim Hins was told. You know, it's not just about protocol.

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Speaker 1: It's about that. And I know this is a quaint notion,

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Speaker 1: but you know, there was a time we all, at

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Speaker 1: least during the Cold War, that there was a belief

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Speaker 1: that politics you should try to at least stop politics

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Speaker 1: at the water's edge. But the irresponsibility of this administration

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Speaker 1: in their.

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Speaker 2: In their.

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Speaker 1: Constant whether I guess it's a grievance, but they pull

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Speaker 1: let a size everything and think that things that they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to do to keep Democrats informed of things, or

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Speaker 1: even work with a Democrat that has nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with a political election or anything, they just view it

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Speaker 1: as some sort of They view it with such animus.

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Speaker 2: It's not.

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Speaker 1: You know, again, the man didn't win fifty percent.

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Speaker 2: Of the vote.

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Speaker 1: The inability to work with the other party, You're going

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Speaker 1: to pay a price at the next ballot box if

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Speaker 1: you continue to do this. So I think it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a terrible thing on there. We close our interview

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Speaker 1: talking about the future.

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Speaker 2: It was interesting.

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Speaker 1: Eric Swawell did have one what I would call alarmist

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Speaker 1: statement to me. He believes if Democrats don't win the

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Speaker 1: House and don't get any sort of foothold of power

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Speaker 1: in Washington after the twenty twenty six midterms that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't believe twenty twenty eight will be a free and

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Speaker 1: fair election. Like I said, it's a bit of an

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Speaker 1: alarming statement. I'm not I'm certainly I'm I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to sit here and say he's being alarmist considering what

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Speaker 1: we've seen. You know, when anybody that's been a party

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Speaker 1: or had to deal with January sixth, on that day,

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Speaker 1: and I was anchoring live down there on Capitol Hill,

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Speaker 1: it is, you know, you can't ever rule anything out.

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Speaker 1: But I'd like to think that it's going to be

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Speaker 1: extraordinarily hard to somehow not have a free and fair

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Speaker 1: election in this country. But I found that to be

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Speaker 1: a statement that I think is worth digesting and worth

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Speaker 1: hearing him in context for.

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Speaker 2: What it's worth.

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Speaker 1: And my final conversation was with my friend Jonathan Martin

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Speaker 1: over at Politico, and he and I dove into the

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Speaker 1: New York City Democratic primary because that happens Tuesday of

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Speaker 1: this week. In fact, this will probably be the last

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Speaker 1: time you hear me until after we find out who

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Speaker 1: wins that primary. And because the bottom line is this,

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Speaker 1: you know, here you have two I think if the

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Speaker 1: progressive movement could have picked who they wanted to be

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Speaker 1: their face in this mayor's rath would not have picked

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Speaker 1: Johan mam Donni.

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Speaker 2: And certainly if the.

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Speaker 1: Center left or the pro business or the establishment wing

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Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party, we're looking for an avatar in

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Speaker 1: a primary, the last person they would have chosen is

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Speaker 1: Andrew Cuomo. But here they have Cuomo and mom Donnie.

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Speaker 1: I will tell you this the panic among the establishment

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Speaker 1: crowd if mom Donnie wins this primary, because he will

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Speaker 1: be the Democratic Party nominee. Now look, Andy Quomo's still

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Speaker 1: going to be on the ballot. Eric Adams, who's the

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Speaker 1: current mayor, is going to be on the ballot. There's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of different ballot lines. By the way, Mam

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Speaker 1: Donnie loses the primary, he's also I think I think

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Speaker 1: it's Working Families Party that he'll be on, But he's

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Speaker 1: going to have another ballot line that he's on. So

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Speaker 1: it's possible we have a four or five way general election.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you've ever dreamed of that, you know

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Speaker 1: I have. I think we're kind of a four party

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Speaker 1: system in reality, Well, we could have quite the chaos

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Speaker 1: on our hands. Andrew Cuomo, Eric Adams, Carlo Sliwa, who's

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Speaker 1: the founder of the Guardian Angels. And Curtis Leewah. Sorry

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Speaker 1: I was blanking on his name. I wanted to call

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Speaker 1: him Carlos Sleewa. Sorry about that. Curtis Sleewah, founder of

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Speaker 1: the Guardian Angels, is the Republican nominee. So it could

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Speaker 1: be a wild general election. But this primary what New

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Speaker 1: York City Democrats do? Who finishes first, who finishes second. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a ranked choice voting, and so we may not

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Speaker 1: have the final tally until Thursday or Friday this week.

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Speaker 1: Maybe who knows if it's something else, but just who's

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Speaker 1: the leading vote getter, who wins the most first choice votes?

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Speaker 1: It will tell us something about where the energy is

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Speaker 1: inside the Democratic Party. So look, there's a lot. It's

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Speaker 1: why you think what the heck is Jim cliber and

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Speaker 1: a South Carolina Democratic congressmen weighing in on the New

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Speaker 1: York City mayor's race. Well, he's part of the establishment, right.

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Speaker 1: He weighed in with Cuomo. Like I said, Michael Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: was no Cuomo fan, but he's writing millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: of checks. Mom Donnie's candidacy scares the living daylights out

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Speaker 1: of Democrats who think the party's brand is already seen

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Speaker 1: as too liberal.

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Speaker 2: We'll see who's right.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm old enough to remember when a lot

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Speaker 1: of establishment Republicans thought MAGA and the far right of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party was a losing strategy for them to

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Speaker 1: win elections. Ten years later, I'm writing essays that say

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's the most influential president since FDR. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to sit here and assume either side is

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Speaker 1: correct in this one. I'm certainly one that believes that

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Speaker 1: the brand the party does have a brand problem, and

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Speaker 1: that I do think they ideologically if you're seen too

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Speaker 1: far to the left, that that's a bigger problem these

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Speaker 1: days then if you're seen as too far to the right.

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Speaker 1: So in general, it's pretty clear there's a brand problem

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Speaker 1: at least with the middle of the elector when you're

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Speaker 1: asking the middle to hold their nose. This most recently,

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Speaker 1: they chose far right over what they perceived to be

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Speaker 1: as a party.

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Speaker 2: That was too liberal.

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Speaker 1: So something to keep in mind and a reason to

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Speaker 1: watch that race. And with that, let's sneak in a

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Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, my friend Jake.

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Speaker 2: Tapper joining me now somebody I have known forever.

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Speaker 1: We've basically professionally grew up together and watching and I think,

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Speaker 1: Jake Tapper, you're of course kind is just I tell

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Speaker 1: everybody we're sort of here simply because you're hawking a

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Speaker 1: book through. I'm not sure if people know this book

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Speaker 1: hasn't gotten a lot of attention, so we'll have to

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Speaker 1: spend some time trying to tell people about the book.

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Speaker 3: Can I tell you what podcast? So we show your

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Speaker 3: fan of Yes, my first memory of you, my first memory.

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Speaker 2: Of you, and I'll tell you my memory of you

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Speaker 2: is the Iowa State Fair.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in nineteen ninety nine, nineteen ninety nine, you were

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Speaker 3: there with Hotline, I believe. Yeah, I'm there with Salon

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Speaker 3: dot Com. Yep, you're there with like a little group.

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Speaker 3: It's like Dominic and Vaughn. It's just like a whole

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Speaker 3: bunch of hot like Vaughn.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember a Dominic, but that's all right, all right,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe I maybe I had a Domaco at NBC.

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Speaker 2: But that's maybe maybe Domenico.

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Speaker 3: All right, Anyway, you were more You and Vaughn were

433
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: more memorable than whoever the third person was. And uh

434
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: so Hotline for people who don't know, and you probably

435
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: have some people here who know you only from NBC

436
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: and don't know about Hotline. But Hotline was the first

437
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: aggregator pre Internet of all the media. And it was

438
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 3: a newsletter that you would sign up for and somebody

439
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 3: would get up at the kracka dawn or even like

440
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 3: all night.

441
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: I don't know how you guys, Dido don Yeah. Yeah,

442
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: we had twelve ships. It was like I don't even know,

443
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 2: thirty pages by the end, and like.

444
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: Yeah I didn't, I didn't. I I was more inclusive.

445
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: I said, we're online. It could do as long as

446
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: it once. I never thought we should have a cut off.

447
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: It was just like all the press summarized for politics,

448
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: all of it, and we.

449
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: Did this crazy thing.

450
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: You know, back then, we had these weird you know,

451
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: people may not realize this, but there were these things

452
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: called local newspapers, and they had these things called political

453
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: reporters that were based not in Washington, but actually based

454
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: in communities all.

455
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: Over the country, all over the country.

456
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: And guess what, when you have people all over the country,

457
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: you get a more diversified look at what the hell

458
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: is going on in America.

459
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: Anyway, everybody wanted to be mentioned by the Hotline.

460
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: And one thing, we boulded the names, right, We bolded

461
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: all of your names, and that's what mattered.

462
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 3: I just remember, just because I was at Salon dot

463
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: com and you know, we were trying to get established

464
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: and trying to recognize that being mentioned and having my

465
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 3: reporter mentioned alongside of the David Broders of the world.

466
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: Was really important. And I think I remember that there.

467
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 3: I have to go back and find it, but there

468
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: was a profile of Hotline by the Washington Post Style section.

469
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we had like for a long time.

470
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety nine or two thousand, in which I

471
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 3: admitted that I whined to you if I did not

472
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 3: get mentioned, which is true, and I own up to that.

473
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 3: And you still always just want to be mentioned. You

474
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: still always just want to have your work we recognize.

475
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: So by the way, it's this is true. I mean,

476
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: like we write social media's proof of this, you know,

477
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: this is this is sort of the the dirty little secret, right,

478
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: Like that's all we just want to be seen, right,

479
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: reports want to be seen.

480
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a secret, but yes, no, so

481
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 3: I've known you forever and then you are our kids

482
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 3: now are kids with the school together. The first one

483
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 3: that's leaving, my second one is leaving. How are you

484
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 3: handling this? You're going to be a kid in college.

485
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have a kid's gonna I'm good. No, I'm

486
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: not ready. And I'm going to be a mess. I'm

487
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: going to be a mess.

488
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: And we have the same breakdown, older old, younger boy,

489
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 3: and I'm.

490
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 2: Going to be a mess. But yeah, we go back.

491
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: Obviously you were white esk correspondent for NBC when I

492
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: was white es correspondent for ABC during the first Obama term.

493
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: And it's been a long, lovely, fruitful fruit deal friendship.

494
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: Our wives are friends, our kids are friends. And just

495
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: to just to illustrate how far back this isn't actually

496
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: how far back it goes. But I got a photo

497
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: like apple, you know, reminds you of on this day

498
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 3: five years ago. I sent you and your wife five

499
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 3: years ago this week your son's co virtual bot metzah. Yeah,

500
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 3: the covid metzvah. Was it a botments for a bar

501
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: metzvah barments of course? Harrison, ye, Harrison, Harrison. We're in

502
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: our basement. I set up a.

503
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: Little it looked, you know, I made him put a

504
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: suit on. You know, we did it as if we

505
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: had our own little bema. It was we had to

506
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: do that for aliss too, and it's uh yeah, so

507
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, he never got his party and he was

508
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: always kind of disappointed in that. But in exchange for

509
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: the party, we went to lambeau Field like a couple

510
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: years later.

511
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: That's nice.

512
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: So we just held off Alice's party until I forget

513
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: if we did it for her sixteenth birthday or for gradu.

514
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: I think our friends in the Latino commit I like

515
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: King Sanaras I grown up at Miami, those were I

516
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: think fifteen feels like a bet, Like, you know, it's

517
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: so funny of these these the botmtz but we threw

518
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: the big bot Metzva party for our honor and you

519
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: did it for check And it's just so I mean,

520
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: every cliche is true when you try to like who

521
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: do you invite at? Like what kind of I feel

522
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: like at fifteen the kids are ready to at least

523
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 1: mingle between boys and girls.

524
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: Well, thirteen they're still not ready. No, that's totally true.

525
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 3: And I also kind of think that COVID set back

526
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: this generation of kids a couple of years when it

527
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 3: comes to emotional development obviously.

528
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I completely agree. I see it. I see it

529
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: with my both.

530
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: Uh more so with my daughter in the age because

531
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, in terms.

532
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 2: Of your angling and learning how to date. Yeah, you know.

533
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but it wasn't High school

534
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: was sort of when you when you made your mistakes.

535
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: I don't know holse to put it right when you

536
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: made your miss you know, maybe it ghosted somebody the

537
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: wrong way, whatever it is, but in a weird way,

538
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: you need that in order to sort of prepare for

539
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: young adulthood when you start dating, and when you don't

540
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: get it in high school, you know there is something

541
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: that's missing there.

542
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

543
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 3: I will not say that I made all my mistakes

544
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 3: in high school because if so, we would be subjected

545
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 3: to all sorts.

546
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: Of comments to your posts. I know there's I just

547
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: from people with whom I made mistakes well into my thirties.

548
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: So uh fair, No, I hear you on that. How

549
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: do you handle I I I can't tell you when

550
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: the switch flip, but it flipped for me right around

551
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: about a month or so after the lockdown, where it's

552
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: just like, remember it doesn't matter. Journalists are not meant

553
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: to be popular. Who cares? You know, we're all human beings.

554
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: You know.

555
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: There's always moments where you probably feel defensive and you

556
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: want to say something, but you've learned not to do it.

557
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: I've learned not to do it. Whenbody goes.

558
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: Nobody should and nobody should, I don't want them to.

559
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in it, which is why I'm not

560
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: going to do there. I'll call you up and bitch

561
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: and moan. Right, we can exchange texts and go blah

562
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: blah blah, right, all that stuff. But for a long time,

563
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: you and I were both really active on social media

564
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: in a different way.

565
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 2: Right.

566
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: We would engage. We'd engage positively and negatively. When did

567
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: you feel like, eh, it's not worth it anymore? When

568
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: did you flip that switch?

569
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: I don't know when it was exactly, but it just

570
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 3: became clear at one point. I do remember. I do

571
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: remember one of the first experiences I had with social

572
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: media where I'm like, oh, you'll get criticized no matter

573
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: what you do on this was when you and I

574
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: did the go t gamble, which.

575
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: Right with the Philadelphia so the Phillies Dodgers on Phillies.

576
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: Ahi fan, He's a Dodgers fan, and I'm.

577
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: More of a Nats fan now, but at the time

578
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: I was, you know, very much more of a Dodger fan.

579
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: And we did we did bet, yeah.

580
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 3: They were, and the bet was that Chuck would shase

581
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 3: he at the time yeah well he now, Yeah, at

582
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 3: the time it was a good just to go tea

583
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: and and the bet was and he you were he

584
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 3: was never going to do this. But it was like

585
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: either like I said, I think I never really accepted

586
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: the bet, but that's okay.

587
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: I remember you you sort of proposed it. And it

588
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: was either if the if the Dodgers won, I would

589
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: grow a go tea and if the Phillies won, Chuck

590
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: would shave his go tea.

591
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: But it's not clear you can grow facial hair, right,

592
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: You're still not sure, right, you're still trying.

593
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: That's fair, and so I mean, who knows? Who knows

594
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,479
Speaker 3: is the answer to that. So and then there was

595
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: a charity, a charitable giving opt out and I think

596
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: that's what we did. We did really well. And I

597
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: think we both and we but my the chair I

598
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: picked was Nick Christoff of the New York Times had

599
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 3: just written something about Pakistani girls having this horror.

600
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: Do you remember that?

601
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: That's right during a pregnancy called called like fistula or

602
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: something like that the girls would die of.

603
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: And like I was like, oh, I just read this.

604
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,479
Speaker 3: This is before I got involved with homes for our

605
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: troops and like I had the designated charity I always

606
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: worked for. I was like, oh, this is this is

607
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: like a really worthy cause. I'll do it for a

608
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: fistula And like immediately the response on Twitter was how

609
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 3: dare you?

610
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: Why aren't you giving to an American charity?

611
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: And it was just like and that was the light

612
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: bulb moment that I was like, Oh, it really doesn't

613
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 3: matter what you're doing.

614
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: No matter what you do, people are going to criticize it.

615
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, how often in person

616
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: do you get negative feedback?

617
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: How rare? Is that very seldom?

618
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: And that says to me is the point I'd say,

619
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: I literally can count on one hand the number of

620
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: negative experiences.

621
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: I've had in person, and it's proof.

622
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's about the same amount of negative interactions

623
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: you have with just anybody, like on traffic jams or

624
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: you know people that don't you know that don't think

625
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: that think they ought to use the ten items or

626
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: less line, you know, things like that. It's proof that

627
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: if we all spend more time face to face, we're

628
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: not going to be assholes to each other.

629
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: No, I agree, I agree. And the social media has

630
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: definitely made us as a and.

631
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: I don't think it's in real life. I think it's

632
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: only on social media, but it's made the world seem

633
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: harsher well.

634
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: And I sit here and I try to say this

635
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: all the time. There's an online world and there's the

636
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: real world. Mike Lee is a great example of this.

637
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: And I used to say this about Marco Rubia when

638
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: he was the Senate, the online senators versus who they

639
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: were sometimes in person, and they were like different people.

640
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: Do you think Mike Lee is not who he I

641
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: don't know who Mike Lee is, right, I'm not.

642
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: And I sit there.

643
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say this is some sort of

644
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: provocative statement. I don't know, yeah, right, like you think

645
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: you know. And one of the things that I think

646
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: the longer you do this job, the more politicians you meet,

647
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: is I don't presume I know any of these people anymore,

648
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: like who they really are, right, Because I think the

649
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: mistake we could make sometimes when we assume if you

650
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: get elected, there must be something good about you, you

651
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: must have some good character, and it's like no, sometimes

652
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: there are bad character people that just con their way

653
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: into office.

654
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: One of the other things that I always wonder about

655
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: is how much because we are journalists, and therefore I

656
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 3: think in the back of the mind of everybody who

657
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: is in the public eye at all, I think that

658
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 3: they are all wondering, am I ever going to betray

659
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: them for a story? I do wonder I do like

660
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 3: for the politicians, and I'm friendly, Well.

661
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: Think about it. Look.

662
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: My favorite line to quote about that I say to

663
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: young journalists you know, is you know there's that line

664
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: in almost famous by Philip Seymour Hoffman early on when

665
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: he says, don't be friends with the rock stars. Rock

666
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: stars aren't your friends, right, And I think about that

667
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: all the time on the political front, right, because the

668
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: politicians want to be our friends at first, really badly, right.

669
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: Whether Donald Trump and Joe Biden in some way are

670
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: wired the same exact way, and they're obsession with being

671
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: friends with the media at first. They always wanted to

672
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: have these personal relationships, and I think it takes real

673
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: discipline to not get caught up in that, and it's hard,

674
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: you know, human beings, because you want to you know,

675
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: there's always a part of me that wants to believe

676
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: these are all good people, just disagreeing on a philosophy.

677
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: Right.

678
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: I used to say, ninety five percent of the people

679
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: got elected to Washington, you know, got there for the

680
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: right reasons. They had a real reason why they wanted

681
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: to run, like a genuine You may not agree with

682
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: what they were running on, but they felt passionately on it.

683
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: And then to me, the town corrupts them.

684
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 2: I'm less, I less believe that. Now I don't know

685
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: what I believe. I think that my default is.

686
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: So there is this concept in Judaism that Michael Medved

687
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 3: taught me once during an interview, which is it's called

688
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: don lekof zihud, which basically means give people the benefit

689
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: of the doubt, don't just always assume the worst.

690
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: And it's something that really stuck with me almost as

691
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: much as the goate gamble.

692
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 3: Which is this idea that like, don't all automatically assume

693
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 3: that people are in this for the wrong reasons. And

694
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: so I do try to do that, which is not

695
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 3: to say, don't be skeptical. But don't just like go

696
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 3: into an interview thinking this is just a power hungry psycho.

697
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, like try to.

698
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: I understand where they're coming from, right, And there's no

699
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: doubt this this era where it does feel like a

700
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: lot of people have decided politics is a good way,

701
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: is a shortcut to becoming famously Yeah, and wealthy and wealthy.

702
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: That's the part of this that I it is a

703
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: good shortcut.

704
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: You get a lot of insider information and you can

705
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 3: invest accordingly. And it's still and this is how you

706
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 3: know that the town is truly corrupt. Is that Like

707
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: the Stock Act still hasn't passed Congress. This idea of

708
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: banning members of Congress, like just saying if you have

709
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: a portfolio, you have to put it in a blind trust.

710
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: And like me, that's the idea that that's controversial, Like

711
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: it's the public trust.

712
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 3: They get lots of insider information, they do. They're in

713
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: closed door hearings all the time.

714
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: By the way, So do you and I what do

715
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: we ow? I've thought about this? You know, I don't, look,

716
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: I never in that time.

717
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 2: I never was based on that. Neither do I.

718
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: But the point is we we could, and I'm sure

719
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: there are some of our brethren that do.

720
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure, but I don't. And so, by the way,

721
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: I don't trust myself as a financial providing financial guidance.

722
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: That's why I have these much smarter guys paying attention

723
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: to Sall right.

724
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: Let's do the book a little bit. Original sin? What

725
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: is your original What is the original sin? I have

726
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: my own original sin, That's why I'm asking it. So

727
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: what is your original sin?

728
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: The original sin?

729
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: According to all the Democrats we talked about talk two

730
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 3: for this book, and Alex Thompson, my co author, and

731
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: I interviewed more than two hundred people. And I'd love

732
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 3: to find out about your book experience when you wrote

733
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: your Obama Hillary book, Chuck, because I found people much

734
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 3: more willing to talk to me for a book than

735
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 3: for anything else in my life than a print story

736
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 3: of TV interview.

737
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: We're just general reporting whatever.

738
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: I got to know people better doing the book that

739
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: I did as a regular old reporter.

740
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 3: And now there's I don't know if it's because it's

741
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 3: just it's there forever or whatever, but in any case,

742
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 3: the original sin is Joe Biden's decision to run for

743
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: reelection when he had implus not explicitly, but implicitly suggested

744
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: that he would be a one term president, and then

745
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: from that decision when he was because he had like

746
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: a reasonably not horrible mid terms, even though he was

747
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: not popular and most of the country thought he was

748
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 3: on the wrong track and most of the country was

749
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 3: concerned he.

750
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: Was too old to do the job.

751
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 3: From that decision came a much shadier set of decisions,

752
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: which had to do with hiding the degree to which

753
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: he deteriorated cognitively, which really started getting really bad in

754
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 3: the summer of twenty twenty three.

755
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: So for me, the original sin was running in the

756
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: first place.

757
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: Oh well, yes, I've heard you talk about this because

758
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: because his family was in crisis, right, because his daughter

759
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: and his son were.

760
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: When I read, I read, I followed that Hunter Biden trial.

761
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 2: Soup to nuts.

762
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: I read every single transcript, I read all of the testimony.

763
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: I cannot believe to this stage that Hunter Biden, that

764
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: Joe Biden did this to his kids.

765
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 2: So somebody close to the family, I can't believe that

766
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 2: he did it.

767
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: Somebody close to the family told us and said, this

768
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: is in the book that everybody knows. You know, some

769
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: of the family aphorisms like you know my words a

770
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: Biden or you know et cetera, et cetera. A lesser

771
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 3: known Biden family saying is don't call a fat person fat.

772
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 3: And by that they mean it's not about being, it's

773
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 3: not about politeness. It's about hiding truths, not acknowledging truths.

774
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 3: And this person close to the family suggested that there

775
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 3: are lots of truths that the family did not want

776
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 3: to face up to. One bo is dying. Two Hunter

777
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: is addicted to drugs. Three Joe Biden cares about his

778
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 3: family more than he cares about anything else, and those

779
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 3: three are not true this family. This person close to

780
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 3: the family said, and and and that's when you talked

781
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: about his running in twenty twenty. I think that that

782
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 3: comes to bear because obviously he was putting his ambition

783
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 3: and if you want to be charitable, his hopes to

784
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: save the country from trump Ism or whatever. Obviously was

785
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 3: putting that above what was going on with his family

786
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 3: and his two children and their struggles.

787
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: Look, I mean, you know you and I covered you

788
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: know for most of our professional lives. The story of

789
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: Joe Biden was this guy cared about his family so

790
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: much he commuted home every night from Washington.

791
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: Now here's by the way, here's the by the way.

792
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: You know what else you could say is this man

793
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: was so ambitious right after his family went through that tragedy,

794
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: he commuted every day to work, right right, Like it's

795
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: the same story to his narrative.

796
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: Had his sister help read.

797
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: I sit here, I look at this and the and

798
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: and I think were we sold to forty year bill

799
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: of goods?

800
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,959
Speaker 2: Well, there is this and this is in the book.

801
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: There is this legend of Joe Biden, and some of

802
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: it is based in reality and some of it is

803
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 3: based in myth.

804
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: And the legend.

805
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: Isybody is not the first president. Whether it's no myth,

806
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: I mean my got In fact, the most presidential resumes

807
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: are are are have some myth in them, all of them.

808
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: You know, we could sit here and do it, but anyway,

809
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: go ahead.

810
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 3: Well, I mean you could talk about the Obama's marriage

811
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: because I mean, like she never wanted him to run

812
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 3: for president, period, And oh, I mean she's been pretty

813
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: honest and open about that.

814
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: Right And no, that memoir, I mean, yeah, I mean

815
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 2: it's yeah.

816
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: The legend and this is some of that one of

817
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: the things that that people love about Joe Biden is

818
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 3: this idea that no matter what life throws at him,

819
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: he gets up off the floor and gets back to work.

820
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: Get up, he says his dad. Get up.

821
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: And he always seemed to be optimist. Find a way

822
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: to be optimistic.

823
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, debilitating stutter, horrible car crash that killed his wife

824
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 3: and daughter, two.

825
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 2: Brain aneurysms, and on and on and on.

826
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 3: That same quality, however, is what paved the way to

827
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: this bad decision.

828
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: This idea that I'm Joe Biden and I cannot be

829
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 2: defeated by age.

830
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 3: I cannot be defeated by whatever is going on with

831
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: my mind in my body right now.

832
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: I will persevere. And it's not just a mythology. For

833
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: some people in the family and close to the family,

834
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 2: it's a theology. And like any religion, skepticism is not permitted.

835
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've I've been a bit

836
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: more defensive of the overall media coverage than clearly others

837
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: would like to be, right, meaning, you know, I think

838
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: the blaming the media is an excuse not to blame

839
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: the actual people that did this, Okay, I like the

840
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: media is a look for better or for worse, where

841
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 1: a reflection were reflection of the best version of events

842
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: that we can come up with.

843
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: We are only as good as our sources.

844
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: I you know, and I've brought this up and I

845
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: heard you bring this up to which is the single

846
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: most difficult thing to report out on a politicians health?

847
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: So sensitive? Yeah, exactly there is.

848
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: It is easy to frankly get shamed out of doing it, right,

849
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: tell you to hear you it's a private thing.

850
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, think about how it's private.

851
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 3: Think about how insanely sensitive people are about getting somebody's

852
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 3: college transcript right, I mean, people are crazy about that

853
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: like that that should honestly just be like automatic, you're

854
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 3: running for president, Okay, here are my grades in college?

855
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 3: Who even cares? But you can't even get that head

856
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 3: because they're so crazy. But yeah, the health stuff, and

857
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 3: we saw it. It's not an insignificant thing.

858
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: And I do think what I want to like sort

859
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: of focus our conversation is that how should this change

860
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: sort of our unofficial vetting process of sidential candidates, because

861
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: I think it should. Frankly, we got to be more

862
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: unpopular in what we do. You know, Wes Moore wants

863
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: to tell us about this bronze star. Well, all right,

864
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: we're going to like find out every little thing, how

865
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: earned was it, how much did this happen? And I say, look,

866
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: I'm I'm singling him out because he may be running

867
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: for president right.

868
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 2: Right, he's very sensitive about us there.

869
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: And it will And you and I both know the

870
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: way political operatives work. Anytime you can identify a topic,

871
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: if you're an opponent on somebody that you know is

872
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: going to get under their skin, you're going to go

873
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: ten You know, you're going to go ten x at it.

874
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: But I do wonder if the Trump era and the

875
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 1: Biden cover up, right, these the combination of these two,

876
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: in theory, it should create the single most skeptical press

877
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: score for the next decade that we've we've had in

878
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: our lifetime. Let's see, maybe not since.

879
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: I agree, Let's say you I agree, And you know

880
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: it's funny you say that, though, because the moment you

881
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 3: say this is a lesson we have learned from Biden.

882
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 3: Whatever the lesson is, it should now be applied to

883
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: every president. The right wing goes, oh, so that's the

884
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: reason he wrote the book on Biden just to get

885
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 3: at Trump. Like, now, what I'm just saying like that's

886
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: the insanity of this convers.

887
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: It's always a bizarre Trump like there's always a bozar

888
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 1: Trump angle.

889
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: So forget Trump. So forget Trump for a second. Let's

890
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 2: talk about post Trump. Let's talk about post Trump.

891
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 3: Just to remove that nonsense from this doctor Jonathan Ryner,

892
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 3: who you know, who is a cardiologist at GW, very respected.

893
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 3: He's been a consultant or an advisor to the White

894
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 3: House medical team for a long long time. He told

895
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: us for our book that what he thinks needs to

896
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: happen is that the White House physician needs to provide

897
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 3: their health report, which is a voluntary thing.

898
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and completely they shouldn't be voluntary, no, exactly.

899
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: And also they decided they're going to release on what

900
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: they're not going to release the White House does, but

901
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 3: that voluntary thing, that that should be test, that that

902
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 3: should be submitted under penalty of perjury. And I would

903
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: go even farther into say that that medical report should

904
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 3: list though I doubt Reiner would disagree with me on this,

905
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 3: every medication that the person is on, and every test

906
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 3: and the results of every test, and one of the

907
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 3: reasons every test I think should be like delineated is

908
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 3: because Biden never got a cognitive test. Now, when his doctor,

909
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 3: Doc O'Connor was asked why not, he would say, he

910
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 3: doesn't need one cognitive test. Or when you only see

911
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: somebody once a year, once every two years, I see

912
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 3: him every day.

913
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: I see what he's doing. His job is a cognitive test.

914
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: But there's another explanation that some people posit, which is

915
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 3: the only reason you don't give a cognitive test is

916
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: if you don't want to know the results in this situation.

917
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: Constitutional amendment to do this, though, I really unfortunately you

918
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: don't think it could just be a law no separation

919
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: of powers. The legislative branch can't necessarily so it's just

920
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: like all of the uh you know the issue of

921
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: trying to uh force a blind trust. You know that

922
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: you can do it for every cabinet secretary, but you

923
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: can't do it for the president and vice president.

924
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 3: Well, there should probably there should probably be some constitutional amendment.

925
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I think there should be.

926
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 3: We got that that has this has like everything, like

927
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 3: the Stock Act that like it has everything in.

928
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,439
Speaker 1: It absolutely and now that probably we got to redo

929
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: the age stuff. I think the aid you know, you

930
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 1: should be a cap well, the only by the way,

931
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: because there are age minimums in the Constitution, it means

932
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: the only way you can put in a cap, the

933
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: only way you can put it in age sort of.

934
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: Uh, you know where you where you.

935
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: Age out of being able to hold office, You're going

936
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: to have to make it a constitutional amendment otherwise it's

937
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: going to be unconstitutional.

938
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, did you did you catch the subtext of the

939
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 2: fact that they're so the senators Cornyn and Schmidt of

940
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: Texas and is or had a that's the first time

941
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: I ever said Missouri. By the way, I don't know

942
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 2: why I said that of Missouri.

943
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: Well, well depends the asuri is Saint Louis and Kansas City,

944
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: the rest of the state.

945
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I don't know why I said that anyway,

946
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: So of Missouri and Texas. They had a hearing this

947
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 3: week on by autopen hearing. Yeah, and the and and

948
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 3: the and the acuity, which, by the way, we didn't

949
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 3: find any evidence and that's not in the book of

950
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 3: the that the auto pen is a thing.

951
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 2: That's not to say it isn't.

952
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 1: But we know this is just literally a right wing

953
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: meme that it got so much attention that these Republican

954
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: senators have to respond to it.

955
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 3: I do think that there is I do think it's

956
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 3: worth exploring because I don't know how much he knew

957
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 3: everything that he was signing. But by the same token,

958
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: I don't know how much any president knows everything they're signing.

959
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 2: But in any case, moving on, old.

960
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Enough to remember when Gary Cone just pulled papers off

961
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: of Trump's desk to defend him from signing stuff. You know,

962
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: So what's the you know, I mean, like, you know,

963
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: be careful opening this can of worms, you know, Eric Schmidt, right.

964
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 3: So, but in any case, the thing that was interesting

965
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 3: was they had this hearing, Democrats boycotted it, and so

966
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 3: it basically became known for the Democrats refusing to participate.

967
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 3: But what's interesting about it is who's the chairman of

968
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 3: the Senate Judiciary.

969
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 2: Committee, isn't it Grassler? Right? Ninety year old Chuck Grassler

970
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: is in ninety one.

971
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: I don't think I don't think he presided over it.

972
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 3: I don't think he presided over this hearing about Biden's acuity. So,

973
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 3: I mean, there is this, and we have a chapter

974
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 3: in the book about this. There is a culture of

975
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 3: this in Washington. When you and I were coming up,

976
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 3: Strom Thurmond, who was almost one hundred years old, was

977
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 3: walking around the halls of Congress, completely adult, completely senile.

978
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 3: He grabbed Senator Patty Murray in an elevator, groped or

979
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 3: think that she was.

980
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: Miss Stafford's staffer.

981
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, because in the Therman office it was apparently known

982
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: that you had to accept that if you work for him.

983
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: But also, by the way, Senator Murray to this day

984
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,240
Speaker 3: hasn't talked about it because she was talked out of

985
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: complaining about it back then.

986
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: And I guess it was like.

987
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 1: This is like ninety three, ninety four, yeah, pretty early.

988
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: It was her first term.

989
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, she by the way she has she is now

990
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 3: she was recently Senate pro temn I mean she was,

991
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 3: she is.

992
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: I know she went from like mom and tennis shoes

993
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: to grandma tesshoes.

994
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So but be that as it may. The only

995
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 2: point is like this this culture of coddling members of

996
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 2: Congress and Supreme Court job.

997
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: But this is the seniority issue, right, like in a

998
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: weird way. You know, I always talk about this is

999
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: a reminder that in Washington, do you know why seniority?

1000
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: You know, there was a time the idea of seniority

1001
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: was actually a political reform because at the turn of

1002
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: the nineteenth and twentieth century, there was a Speaker of

1003
00:52:54,880 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: the House that would was basically forcing him, was was

1004
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: essentially doing, you know, didn't want well, no, I'm going

1005
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: to put my people in these committees, and and so

1006
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 1: it was. It created this. It was a very narrowly

1007
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: divided house then. So one of the reforms they created

1008
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 1: was the seniority system.

1009
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 3: Well, because it does because voters take.

1010
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 2: Power away from the speaker.

1011
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: At the time, the speaker could say no, you're the

1012
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: committee chairman, not you, you know, literally could take it newly.

1013
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: Now they still do that, not as much, it's hard

1014
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: not not not like they did.

1015
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 3: And well there's a reason McCall and Turner are not

1016
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 3: at Foreign Affairs and.

1017
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 2: Inteler, but they also ate.

1018
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: But they also turned out right, the Republicans put in committee.

1019
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 3: I don't think. I don't think Turner aged out. I

1020
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 3: think that they turned out.

1021
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: I think he I think he technically was turned out.

1022
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 2: Was he or wasn't he? I don't think so. No,

1023
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 2: I think he pissed off Trump.

1024
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: Well, but Intel is different, by the way, Intel is

1025
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: a joint committee, and I don't think the seniority doesn't apply.

1026
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: I think that's it.

1027
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 2: And in any case, we've taken a deviation. Let's go back.

1028
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: So, yes, that reform now means that we have a

1029
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,919
Speaker 3: system that rewards people who are elected over and over

1030
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 3: and over. And that system doesn't necessarily reward accomplishment or ability.

1031
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: It's just longevity.

1032
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 3: And those people are surrounded by staffers and lobbyists and

1033
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 3: family members whose job it is is to give the

1034
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 3: principle as much power and cover as possible, so that

1035
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 3: we now have more people over the age of seventy

1036
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 3: in Congress than ever before that ever before period. And

1037
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 3: one of the reasons why Republicans control the House right

1038
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: now is because since April of last year, six House

1039
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 3: Democrats have died in office, and of those six, five

1040
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 3: were either in their seventies or eighties period. So this

1041
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 3: is one of the reasons why Republicans control the House

1042
00:54:59,239 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 3: right now.

1043
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, and then of course you keep going.

1044
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: You could keep going down this road, which is you know,

1045
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: the way the system works. If you're of working age,

1046
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 1: you don't really have the resources to run for office.

1047
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: Only older, wealthier people do, right like, And that's the

1048
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 1: other that's the other part of this.

1049
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 3: So we just did a story on this on my

1050
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 3: show like a week and a half ago. I had

1051
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 3: some one of these great young reporters from Notice, and

1052
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 3: then I had Paul Kine like you and me an

1053
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 3: old grizzled veteran walking stayed Rich.

1054
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: And.

1055
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 3: It was basically about this phenomenon. And also we were

1056
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 3: specifically talking about Dwight Evans, the congressman from Philadelphia who

1057
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 3: have a stroke last year, missed a lot of votes

1058
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 3: and is now back. But the same question being asked

1059
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 3: about him is the same question being asked about Eleanor

1060
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: Holmes Norton, the.

1061
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: Delegate from Washington, d C.

1062
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 3: Which is Philadelphia and DC need fighters. Are these two

1063
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 3: politicians Eleanor Holmes Norton, I think just turned eighty eight.

1064
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, are they up to.

1065
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: The task owing our Holmes Norton cannot drive anymore because

1066
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 3: of her acuity about.

1067
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: Kay Granger, the Granger story down in Fort Worth, where

1068
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: it was apparently in a in a in a in

1069
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: an assisted living she.

1070
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 3: Was in a dimension centeral paycheck.

1071
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: Yes, while her staff was clearly covering up so they

1072
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't lose their infut.

1073
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 2: Not just staff, by the way, right, not family and staff.

1074
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: That's right, Oh, there are.

1075
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: The entire House Republican leadership knew about this because Kay

1076
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 3: Granger stepped down as chair of what was your chair

1077
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 3: of Appropriation.

1078
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 1: Propriations, Like, so she shifted like the single most powerful

1079
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: committee slot you can have, okay, by the trailer committee

1080
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: that hands money out, yes.

1081
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: And steps down. Uh. And then like at some point

1082
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 2: in there, this is like the may.

1083
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: Or June summer yeah it was early summer.

1084
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, goes into a dementia center and then nobody knows

1085
00:56:59,440 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 2: about that.

1086
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 3: Nobody knows it's a It took a reporter in Texas

1087
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 3: to track it down figure it out right, And all

1088
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 3: that time that district had not did not have a congression.

1089
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: And this is not like a rural district, this is

1090
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: Fort Worth. And and this gets it too, the larger

1091
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: issue that I'm obsessed with, which is like, and you

1092
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: started off by paying a very nice compliment to the

1093
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: to the to the hotline days.

1094
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 2: But but it's like we.

1095
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: Don't have enough local political reporters and there were there

1096
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: was more local accountability.

1097
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 3: Let's I want to get Let's give this guy shadow

1098
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 3: because I should know his name by now. K Granger

1099
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 3: story because.

1100
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: I think it was.

1101
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: It was like an independent journalist, right, it was, I

1102
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: think a North Texas startup. I think I can't remember now,

1103
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't like that. I'm trying to remember what it

1104
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: was myself. This is obviously, uh, really fun for folks

1105
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: when they can hear us googling.

1106
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: So that's that's that's always good. That's good stuff.

1107
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 3: My ajor stepped down is the top of this is

1108
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 3: the time, so the top of Republican appropriations coming in March,

1109
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 3: said she would not seek re elections.

1110
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 2: She should continue to serve out the rest of her term. Unbelievable.

1111
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 2: It might have been the Dallas Morning News.

1112
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: But the point was is that it just there's this

1113
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: there's less local urgency on political coverage and I don't

1114
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: know how because there's just fewer people doing it. And

1115
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 1: this is what happens is I don't think constituents are

1116
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: fully aware of, frankly, how invalid some of their representation is.

1117
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 2: At times. Oh it's crazy, and look, I should also

1118
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 2: we should also note that age is not necessarily determinative

1119
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 2: of ability, although it's there is a correlation, but it's

1120
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: not necessarily determined.

1121
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to get grief my mother has noted

1122
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: the few times that I note you know about you know,

1123
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: and my mother works, and she's you know, I've.

1124
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 3: Learned that to mention my parents in these situations.

1125
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: So I'm not mentioned my mother. Exception.

1126
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are exceptions to this, but we cannot pretend

1127
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 3: that in your seventies and eighties people don't slow down

1128
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 3: a little and sometimes, you know, it is actually a

1129
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 3: good time to go in the porch and drink some

1130
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 3: lemonade and read some books and look at it.

1131
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: But I'm going to be more crass about it, which

1132
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: is you're further away from how many Americans live their lives.

1133
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: So how are you? How are you? How do you know.

1134
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: Even how to represent people with small kids, people with

1135
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: kids in college?

1136
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

1137
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 3: You know, also not invested in the future because you're

1138
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: not going to be around for So this is why.

1139
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 3: By the way, so I got and I guess it's

1140
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 3: because of the movie Conclave. I got really into this Conclave.

1141
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 3: It was the first Conclave I got into.

1142
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 2: As a dry love.

1143
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: It's a single, that's my it's the election. I want

1144
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: to observe. The most Conclave of the movie was really

1145
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: good until the last ten minutes.

1146
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 3: Yea, I didn't like the twist, but beyond beyond the twist,

1147
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 3: that movie got me really into the idea of the conclave,

1148
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 3: and I learned and I guess some people, a lot

1149
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 3: of people probably knew this, or at least our Catholic

1150
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 3: friends knew this. But like, cardinals over the age of

1151
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: eighty have not been permitted to participate in the conclave

1152
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 3: since the seventies. Since the nineteen seventies, Yes, the Catholic

1153
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: Church has been well ahead of the rest of the world.

1154
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: The Catholic Church is rarely ahead of society on anything. Yeah.

1155
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 3: No, but they were like, are on this The Pope said, well,

1156
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 3: they tried, they try to get cardinals to step.

1157
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: Down at seventy five and they won't, right.

1158
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 3: And so but what they said is okay, but you

1159
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 3: can stay on and emeritus or whatever, but you can't

1160
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: participate in the conclave. You can offer advice on the

1161
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 3: sidelines whatever. But like you're not voting because you're not

1162
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 3: And I guess the thinking is because you're not going

1163
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 3: to be around for the future of the church, and

1164
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 3: like it should be younger people.

1165
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: And by younger they could mean seventy nine. But like still.

1166
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 3: So there is this age thing that is part of

1167
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 3: the Biden's story, and beyond that is this culture of

1168
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 3: hiding this stuff, people not being willing to bring it up.

1169
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 3: And again, none of this excuses what Biden and his

1170
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 3: family and his top aides did, but it is a

1171
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 3: context to this town, this wacky town. This is the

1172
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 3: only place that this could have happened. It couldn't even

1173
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 3: happen at the Catholic church. But it couldn't happen in athletics.

1174
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 3: It couldn't happen in the business world. It couldn't happen

1175
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 3: in acting. It couldn't happen in any other sphere because

1176
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 3: there would be a board of directors or a producer

1177
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 3: or This couldn't happen in the UK because the person

1178
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 3: the number two behind the Prime Minister would come in

1179
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 3: and say this is crap.

1180
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 2: The parties are much stronger there, etc.

1181
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 3: Couldn't happen in Canada, couldn't happen in New Zealand, couldn't

1182
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 3: happen in Australia.

1183
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 2: But in the United.

1184
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 3: States, in Washington, DC, it was inevitable And in fact,

1185
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 3: this has happened before to lesser extents, with Reagan and

1186
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 3: his Alzheimer's JFK and his Addison's Wilson and his stroke,

1187
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 3: and on and on.

1188
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: FDR player in nineteen forty four, No way ever run

1189
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: for president, never should have run for president.

1190
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 3: But you know what's interesting about that is that the

1191
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 3: party steps in, yeah, now, knowing that he's going to die, right,

1192
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 3: and at least forced him to pick a different price

1193
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 3: and has and say, okay, well, get rid of Henry Wallace,

1194
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 3: the Soviet sympathizer. Put in somebody else who could actually

1195
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 3: be president. They put in Harry Truman. So the party

1196
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 3: is hint to what's going on, but not to like.

1197
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 2: What you can run. So let me get to some one.

1198
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: One more on the book, the motivation to protect Biden,

1199
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: how much of it was about Kamala Harris and a

1200
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: lack of belief she could win.

1201
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 2: That was an excuse? You?

1202
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was wondering is it an excuse or was

1203
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: it real? What do you think?

1204
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: Like? What's your I think it was no.

1205
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 3: I think that they thought this, And by they I

1206
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 3: mean Joe Biden, Jill Biden, Hunter Biden, and then what.

1207
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 2: Was called the folks, I would say, Mike Donlan Rochetti,

1208
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 2: that's the pro That's what I was coming to.

1209
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: Next.

1210
01:02:55,480 --> 01:03:00,959
Speaker 2: The Pola Buro is the is the tight circle of topics. Okay.

1211
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: So it's Mike Donald and Steve Roshetty and others. Okay.

1212
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 3: And they they thought the following one, Joe Biden is

1213
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 3: the only one who's ever beaten Donald Trump.

1214
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 2: Two.

1215
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 3: Therefore, Joe Biden is the only one who can beat

1216
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 3: Donald Trump in twenty twenty four. Three, Donald Trump postes

1217
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 3: an existential threat to the nation. If you believe those

1218
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 3: three things, you can justify anything.

1219
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 2: Uh.

1220
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 3: And they used Kamala as an excuse. Oh so Joe

1221
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 3: shouldn't run. So who's going to be the nominie?

1222
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 2: Kamala? She's even less popular than him, which was true

1223
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: at the time. Well, well then why did he pick her?

1224
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 2: Why why did he pick her in the first place.

1225
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: That's a great question, and that and that's David.

1226
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: Plus, she wasn't right to me, if she wasn't prepared,

1227
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: you didn't have confidence in her and being president, then

1228
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: clearly this first what are we told the most? You know,

1229
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: the first decision a president makes is who they want

1230
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: as their number two. Well, if that's a failure, then

1231
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: their first decision was a failure.

1232
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,479
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's fair to say that he made

1233
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 3: the He made the pick for political reasons, not for

1234
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 3: governing reasons.

1235
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: I guess, But I don't even understand the political reasons.

1236
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: I've never understood that pick. I've never understood what he look.

1237
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: I get what they I get what they thought it

1238
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: might bring to the ticket, but it didn't.

1239
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: But anyway, go ahead.

1240
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 3: Well, they thought that, especially after George Floyd and the protests,

1241
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 3: that black women are the beating heart of the Democratic Party,

1242
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 3: the most reliable and most needed voters, and the Kamala

1243
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 3: Harris had been vetted on a national stage because she'd

1244
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 3: run for president, done successfully and dropped out in twenty nineteen.

1245
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: She had an impressive resume.

1246
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 3: She was on paper an attractive candidate senator, former attorney general,

1247
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 3: former district attorney, et cetera. And they thought that it

1248
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 3: was a no brainer.

1249
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 2: It was between.

1250
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: If that is what you thought, then it wasn't even

1251
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: a close call. Val Demings was the pick. It was

1252
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: the same, I mean, why pick.

1253
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 2: She was never really?

1254
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: Why you don't pick the cop is the single look.

1255
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: I understand why they didn't pick her because they didn'.

1256
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: Know her well enough. But it wasn't between baron An

1257
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: I know it wasn't, and it was between her, and

1258
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 2: it was between her and Whitmer.

1259
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 3: Dennings and Val Deming's a congresswoman and former police chief

1260
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 3: from Florida, and Karen Bass, the current mayor of Los

1261
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 3: Angeles then a congresswoman from California, were publicly it was

1262
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 3: supposed to be down to those three according to people,

1263
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 3: and then Whitmer was also right, but it wasn't. It

1264
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,479
Speaker 3: was just between Whitmer and Harris. It was only between

1265
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 3: Whitmer and Harris, and Biden's gut was with Whitmer, but

1266
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 3: he went with Harris because his top aids thought he

1267
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 3: needed to, and he was proud of that pick for

1268
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 3: you know, the superficial trailblazing civil rights reasons, and those

1269
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 3: are three separate categories. I'm not saying that civil rights

1270
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 3: reasons are too superficial. I'm saying they're different ones.

1271
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 2: And that's what he went with. But but yes, that

1272
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 2: would drive Pluff crazy.

1273
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 3: David Pluff, Obama's campaign manager in OH eight, his chief

1274
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 3: of staff, I know, you know, I'm telling them, and

1275
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 3: uh and who was brought on to bring to help

1276
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 3: run the Kamala Harris campaign in those last time one

1277
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 3: hundred and seven days. It would driving him crazy because

1278
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 3: he'd be like, if you don't think she's up for

1279
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 3: the job, why did you pick her to be vice president?

1280
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 2: Because they picked Remember Pluff and ex Rod helped pick.

1281
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: But don't forget no no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

1282
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: no Biden. Excuse me. Axelrod was a Biden guy. Pluff

1283
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: did not want to pick Biden. Pluff argued against Biden

1284
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: all the way. Bluff hated all of them. Pluff, well,

1285
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: I really hated Biden. He never bought the Biden thing.

1286
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:33,959
Speaker 1: He never was a Biden guy. There was a weird

1287
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: relationship there because you know, uh, Pluff's a Delaware It's

1288
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: from Delaware. Yeah, you know right, it's a Delaware kid.

1289
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: And he never worked for Biden. It bugged Biden that

1290
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 1: Pluff was not somehow part of the you know, enough

1291
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: of a you know that got into politics and never

1292
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: worked for the Bidens, right, Like it was like some

1293
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 1: sort of you know, how dare you you know, a

1294
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 1: rejection or whatever it was.

1295
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: But Pluff was never he was.

1296
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: My understanding was he was the guy arguing against He

1297
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:02,919
Speaker 1: wanted the generational pick.

1298
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 2: You pick Kane. Look, that's it.

1299
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: You know, we could play this game of original sin, right. Obviously,

1300
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: I think the original sin was running I go back

1301
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: even further. I think, in hindsight, the other the super

1302
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: original sin was Barack Obama endorsing Hillary Clinton and not

1303
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: not steering the party to a new generation. Nope, it's

1304
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: not personal against Hillary Clinton. But it was that the

1305
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: fact that he endorsed an older Democrat, the fact that

1306
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: he endorsed somebody technically a little bit a genera half

1307
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: generation older than him rather than and then what happened.

1308
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: It knocked out an entire generation of the Democratic Party

1309
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 1: that might have been in the leadership class at this point.

1310
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: All the people that ran in twenty should have run

1311
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: in sixteen, right, that all those all those that impressive

1312
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 1: class of senators from six that Democrats got, right, Tester

1313
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: mccaskell web case he shared Brown.

1314
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 2: You know there's a whole bunch of them.

1315
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: And then you throw in Booker in thirteen, and Michael

1316
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: Bennett and ten. You know there was a whole generation

1317
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 1: of them that all would have been Klobashar is another one.

1318
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: All would have been primed to run in sixteen, but

1319
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: for Obama putting his finger on the scale for Clinton.

1320
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't. He didn't explicit least, that's my pre

1321
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 2: original sin on this.

1322
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 1: If you really wanted to keep going back, because you

1323
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been in the situation where you had Biden

1324
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 1: and Clinton as the sort of the only two people.

1325
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 2: That could. We will probably never know thepromise candidate. We'll

1326
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 2: probably never know. Well, we can't wargame it.

1327
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 3: But no, But I wonder if that was an explicit,

1328
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 3: behind the scenes deal when they had that meeting, you know,

1329
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 3: when she endorsed him finally after that had fought primary,

1330
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 3: and also when she came on board to be Secretary

1331
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 3: of State.

1332
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:46,799
Speaker 2: I wonder if just the two of them and nobody

1333
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: would even know. We'll never know.

1334
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: Well, and Bill Clinton was a huge asset to Barack

1335
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: Obama in the reelect in twenty twelve. I look, I

1336
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: always I respected Obama. If Obama endorsed her basically out

1337
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: of loyalty, hey she you know, she she took one

1338
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: for me. You know, she brought the party together. You know,

1339
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: I owed her. That's politics, Like, I respect that mindset.

1340
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 1: Don't get me, but I agree it probably was the

1341
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: end of a deal. And I also think he did

1342
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: respect her and said, hey, this woman has the ability

1343
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: to do the job, which also is true. But to me,

1344
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: what we all have to remember is it doesn't matter

1345
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: if you have the ability to do the job, do

1346
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: the voters want you? Well, that's the fact of the

1347
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: matter is the voters had already rejected her once in

1348
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, and that was to me, the misfire

1349
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 1: of Obama's.

1350
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 3: I mean, the voters have rejected Ronald Reagan two times

1351
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 3: before they went for him.

1352
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: You can't go by that. But I will say this

1353
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 2: not real. We got We get into this a little

1354
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 2: bit in the book because Biden has this chip on

1355
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:49,719
Speaker 2: his shoulder based on this revisionist history that Obama picked

1356
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 2: her over him, when the truth of the matter is

1357
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 2: bo had just died in twenty fifteen, and Obama right,

1358
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 2: it was even no shape to run. It was in

1359
01:09:59,040 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 2: no shape to run.

1360
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 3: And and just the political reality was that by the

1361
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 3: fall of twenty fifteen, Bernie and Hillary were both so

1362
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 3: popular it didn't even matter if that whole class that

1363
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 3: you're talking about had run. Hillary and Bernie were just

1364
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 3: so popular with the populists and with the base and

1365
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 3: with women.

1366
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 1: You know, Bernie doesn't run if Hillary, if there's a

1367
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, there were so many other folks. Elizabeth Warren

1368
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: probably runs in sixteen. If Hillary doesn't run and Bernie

1369
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: doesn't run. You know, Bernie only ended up running when

1370
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: nobody else would.

1371
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 3: Hillary running is not dependent on Obama backing her. That's

1372
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 3: my point. Hillary was going, oh, you're not right there. No,

1373
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 3: but but let me tell you something else about fifteen

1374
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen that you'll find interesting, which is so Our

1375
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 3: reporting in the book found that Biden's adlemant could be

1376
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 3: traced as far back as Bo's death in May twenty fifteen, and.

1377
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 2: A top a might have been a trigger.

1378
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the top aide told us that watching his

1379
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 3: psyche Biden psyche then Vice President Biden psyche in twenty fifteen,

1380
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 3: when Bodon was like watching somebody pour water on the sand.

1381
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 3: And that was when he first started deteriorating with whatever

1382
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 3: he had, whatever generation.

1383
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 1: And this is the part where I have tons of empathy. Okay,

1384
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,560
Speaker 1: I you know, when my dad died, my grandfather outlived

1385
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: my father, and I remember he was catatonic. The lex

1386
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: he lived six years after my dad died, and he

1387
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 1: was a hollowed out person. Yeah, he was totally as

1388
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 1: you or I would be correct you. So I fully

1389
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: understand all that. But it does get at the point

1390
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: where he never should have put the country. Well, here's

1391
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 1: the thing that's put that he put his ambition. He

1392
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 1: wasn't he couldn't do this. It's okay that he couldn't

1393
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 1: do this, Like we all like tragedies happen and it

1394
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 1: impacts you, and you know, I sit there, it's like

1395
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 1: it's it's not a sign of weakness. But but the

1396
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: fact is, you know, they call it blind ambition for

1397
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: a reason.

1398
01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 2: So it was blind ambition.

1399
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 3: In I mean some of the other some of the

1400
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 3: other evidence that shows that he was declining significantly before

1401
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 3: he ran in twenty twenty is in the her Report

1402
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 3: where Robert Hurr. When Robert hur is investigating Joe Biden's

1403
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 3: mishandling of classified information, he finds these tapes or he

1404
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 3: gets these tapes of Biden taught the officer right, yeah, his.

1405
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 2: Ghost his ghost writer.

1406
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 3: And you know when he's sitting there in the skiff

1407
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:24,919
Speaker 3: and he hears Biden say, I just found the classified

1408
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 3: documents downstairs, and you know, eyes light up, Oh my god,

1409
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:32,799
Speaker 3: he just confessed. But on these tapes, Biden sounds old,

1410
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 3: and he can't remember dates and he can't remember facts,

1411
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 3: and that's in the her report, and that's twenty seventeen,

1412
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. But what I find interesting about all this

1413
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 3: and I'd love to be able to talk to Barack

1414
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 3: Obama about this.

1415
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 2: But he'll never give you or eyeen interview.

1416
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 4: Ever.

1417
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: Maybe he does the Gerald Ford and does a you know,

1418
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,639
Speaker 1: there's a there's an interview that we don't know about

1419
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 1: that gets released after death, right, like that's a probably

1420
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: only shot we got.

1421
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I let to know Obama's head.

1422
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:08,639
Speaker 3: So he so our reporting suggests that Biden, that Obama

1423
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 3: did not support Biden running for president of twenty sixteen

1424
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 3: because he didn't because he needed Biden was not in

1425
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 3: any condition because he was grieving his son so much.

1426
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 3: And I wonder if Obama, and I don't know if

1427
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 3: he's read the book or not, but I wonder if

1428
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 3: Obama looks back at that and thinks, oh, that wasn't

1429
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 3: just grief, that was something else.

1430
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: I think it could have been grief that I think

1431
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 1: it's I don't know. I think it's hard to disaggregate

1432
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 1: it for what it's worth.

1433
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 2: I just wonder what he thinks. And you know, I agree.

1434
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:40,840
Speaker 2: He was never super accessible.

1435
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 3: Much more accessible than Biden was, but he was never

1436
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 3: super accessible. When we were White House Correspondence, he started off,

1437
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 3: remember when he would like to have a lunch, have

1438
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 3: a lunch with the NBC team, have a lunch with

1439
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 3: the ABC team.

1440
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: And then it was all good for about nine months

1441
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: and then the beer you know what it all? You

1442
01:13:57,680 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 1: know when it changed. It was I think it's the beer,

1443
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: the Beer Summit. Everything changed after the Beer Summit, our

1444
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: access to them change, everything.

1445
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 2: Changed, you know. That was that was that was a

1446
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 2: that's my thesis.

1447
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 1: You know, I felt like that that's when they that's

1448
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: when they got a little more.

1449
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 2: You know, one of more pretorian.

1450
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have an interest, you know.

1451
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 1: I was thinking about all the books you've written, and

1452
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: you've done fiction. Yeah, you've done war, a war book.

1453
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: You've done the sort of the the quick thing that

1454
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 1: Jesse Ventura book, Like I don't know how what you

1455
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 1: would describe that quick book, the sort of like what

1456
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 1: the hell just happened? You know, give me some quick context.

1457
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: You know, those are the books that I always say

1458
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,679
Speaker 1: are the big magazine stories that you make into a book, right,

1459
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 1: because because there is like, Hey, who the hell is

1460
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:03,160
Speaker 1: this guy?

1461
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 2: How the hell did this happen? This is it? That

1462
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 2: was that was a right instant paperback in Saint Martin's price.

1463
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 2: Get it.

1464
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 3: I think I was paid like ten thousand dollars. It

1465
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 3: was very early in my career.

1466
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1467
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: Right, And you've done these various different and you what

1468
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: I think is interesting is most people who have authored

1469
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: as many books as you have, there's a pattern and

1470
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:25,719
Speaker 1: other than generally politics being the subject matter, you've actually

1471
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: dabbled in different styles of writing, different styles.

1472
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 2: So what do you like?

1473
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: Is it one of those things you like at all

1474
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: and you like dabbling in the different styles, doing a

1475
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 1: little novel, or is there one? Is there one that

1476
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, in the next twenty five years,

1477
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: I hope to do five more like this.

1478
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 3: No, it's it's entirely what interests me at any given moment, entirely,

1479
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 3: and there's really other than politics or at large, there's

1480
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 3: there's really no theme I have.

1481
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:58,320
Speaker 2: I'm working on two more books right now.

1482
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 3: One of them comes out in October and it's about

1483
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 3: the prosecution of a terrorist and it's just I was

1484
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 3: at a paintball with my son for his birthday party,

1485
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 3: and because it's an hour outside of DC, you know,

1486
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:15,680
Speaker 3: I have pizza and refreshments for the adults so they

1487
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 3: don't have to drive an hour and then drive an

1488
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 3: hour back, then drive an hour, you know whatever, just

1489
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 3: hang out for a couple hours while the kids beat each.

1490
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 2: Other up in the woods.

1491
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 3: And one of the dads comes up to me and says, Oh,

1492
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 3: I know Dave Roller from The Outpost And I'm like, Oh,

1493
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 3: that's so cool. Dave Roller is one of the heroes

1494
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 3: of The Outpost in my Afghanistan book.

1495
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 2: And I said, yeah, that book's really tough.

1496
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:38,799
Speaker 3: The Pentagon, the military really doesn't keep very good records

1497
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 3: and they're very reluctant to share.

1498
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 2: And he says, oh, tell me about it, and.

1499
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 3: Then he proceeds to tell me this incredible case that

1500
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 3: he was an assistant US attorney for in which they

1501
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 3: had to build a case against a terrorist and it

1502
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 3: was just this unbelievable yarn and it was just so

1503
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 3: that's my next book, just because I was just like, Oh,

1504
01:16:58,360 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 3: my god, that's fascinating, what.

1505
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 2: A great story.

1506
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: So you're just a story follower and I mean this

1507
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 1: in a good like, Yeah, it's a good story. I

1508
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 1: want to tell you the store.

1509
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 2: The one after that is illustrated. It's a great it's

1510
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 2: not enovel.

1511
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to ask you, Like you've always like,

1512
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 1: if you could be a full time political cartoonist, would

1513
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 1: you be?

1514
01:17:16,280 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 2: I don't think.

1515
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm good at it, honestly, Like no,

1516
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 3: I mean yes, if I had like a whole new

1517
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:24,600
Speaker 3: set of talents, that's fun. Although that's a dying field, unfortunately,

1518
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,640
Speaker 3: I don't. Just like I look at the political cartoonists

1519
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,599
Speaker 3: that I admire. And I was just at the LBJ

1520
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 3: Library for this book tour and they showed me some

1521
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 3: pat Oliphant cartoons that they have in storage. At first

1522
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,120
Speaker 3: of all, why are they in storage? Please put them

1523
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 3: up on the wall. But anyway, and they showed me, and.

1524
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:46,360
Speaker 2: Why are they at the LBJ library and not like LBJ.

1525
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:50,640
Speaker 3: Because pat Oliphant in the sixties LBJ would read the

1526
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 3: political cartoons, look at the ones he liked and has

1527
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 3: for that tell people to go get them, and then

1528
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 3: pat Oliphant would sign them respectfully pat Ollifant, and hand

1529
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 3: them to the president.

1530
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 2: Yeah no, and it was like dozens of them, and

1531
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 2: it's just like, oh my.

1532
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:05,640
Speaker 1: I guess good for him for saving it. I mean,

1533
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, he could have just given it to family.

1534
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 2: No, it's so cool.

1535
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 3: Anyway, I look at him and I'm like, that guy

1536
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:13,520
Speaker 3: was just the best political cartoonist.

1537
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 2: He just took no prisoners. He was such a beautiful draftsman.

1538
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 3: I can't do that, but I will say the next

1539
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 3: book is about So. I was in France with my

1540
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,799
Speaker 3: family and my son and I went to the Museum

1541
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 3: of the Resistance and we learned about Jean Mulan, the

1542
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 3: hero of the Resistance, and he was tortured by tortured

1543
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 3: and killed by the Nazi Klaus Barbie. And I'm like, oh,

1544
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 3: I've heard of Klaus Barbie. And then I just want

1545
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,759
Speaker 3: to kind of went down this rabbit hole of Klaus Barbie,

1546
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 3: this Nazi who escaped justice after World War Two and

1547
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 3: was in Bolivia and blah blah blah. And then I

1548
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 3: just and I learned so much that just like completely

1549
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 3: opened my eyes. And then I pitched a graphic novel

1550
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 3: except it's nonfiction about Klaus Barbie. And that's my next

1551
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:02,080
Speaker 3: book after So it's really honestly, And that's just a

1552
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 3: clear Now you're.

1553
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 2: Doing a graphic novel, which you've never done before, So no, exactly.

1554
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:09,040
Speaker 2: So I think it's all just what interests me and

1555
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 2: what is a challenge that I want to see if

1556
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 2: I can meet it, That's that's what I think.

1557
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 1: Let's get out on political satire. Okay, your favorite satire

1558
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 1: out there these days? Who's doing? Because I think it's

1559
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 1: never been harder to be a satirist of our current

1560
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 1: political world because sometimes, you know, or if you try

1561
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 1: to fictionalize what we're going through, you can't come up

1562
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 1: with the scenarios that we're actually dealing with, right, Like some.

1563
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:35,840
Speaker 2: Of it is.

1564
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, if I would have told you ten years

1565
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: ago that, yeah, a president's family is going to start

1566
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: a mobile phone company, wow my god. I mean, like

1567
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: you know, like just the little thing like this one. Yeah,

1568
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: and you sit here and now it's just sort of normalized.

1569
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 1: I think it's never been harder to be a satirist

1570
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 1: or or or humorist where you need to you almost

1571
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: need to exaggerate in order to make a point, right R.

1572
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: How do you exaggerate? How do you sound this exaggerated?

1573
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: The world is satire. We live in a satire well,

1574
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:07,800
Speaker 1: I mean I do. What do you think doing it well?

1575
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:08,799
Speaker 2: Like these days?

1576
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:10,599
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I do think the late night

1577
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:15,280
Speaker 3: guys from Kimmel to Fallon, to Seth Meyers to Colbert

1578
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 3: to Bill Maher at.

1579
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: You you're saying good things about all of them, all

1580
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 1: of them will help.

1581
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 3: But I mean that they but I do see their

1582
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 3: clips and they do make that I do. The test

1583
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 3: for me is always just like, am I watching the clip?

1584
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 3: Am I watching the clip? And my watching it all

1585
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 3: the way through?

1586
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 2: I do?

1587
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 3: And Bill Maher you know, who is obviously not predictable

1588
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 3: in terms of the stuff he's ranting on. I appreciate

1589
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 3: to me it makes them slightly more interesting because it's

1590
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 3: not predictable, right, Yeah, yeah, I do, I do.

1591
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 2: I do. I wish it was.

1592
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 3: More thriving though, the political satire world, because it just

1593
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 3: does seem like it should be so ripe and yet

1594
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 3: at the same time there is.

1595
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 1: Well there's like I take a guy like Greg Guttfeldt.

1596
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: I knew gut You probably knew him too. Twenty years ago.

1597
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: He was the editor of UK Maxim. He's the editor

1598
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: of UK Maxim and he was sort of an iconoclastic

1599
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: kind of guy, sort of loud, but also like would

1600
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 1: satirize anybody, right, And you know the version that we

1601
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:17,920
Speaker 1: see of him now is not the guy that you

1602
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,440
Speaker 1: know he could be. I think of more interesting satirists

1603
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: if he didn't feel trapped by I think or maybe

1604
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: he's doing it by choice. I'm not going to say

1605
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 1: he's trapped, but if he didn't feel like the ad

1606
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 1: state you have to stay within the silo of your

1607
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:32,640
Speaker 1: information ecosystem.

1608
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I don't I don't know Greg particularly well.

1609
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 2: I will say that you know he's probably delivering what

1610
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 2: the audience at ten o'clock on.

1611
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 1: Fox points that's exactly right, meaning like he's let he's

1612
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:47,599
Speaker 1: been audience captured.

1613
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 2: Right.

1614
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: And to me, the best satirists are the ones that

1615
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:52,759
Speaker 1: aren't afraid of pissing off the audience.

1616
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 3: I'll tell you, Like, when you asked about political satire,

1617
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:01,600
Speaker 3: my mind immediately ran to Tom Larr, who from the sixties,

1618
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:03,919
Speaker 3: who I still.

1619
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 2: A showing our age even though was us.

1620
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,599
Speaker 3: He's still alive out there. And Tom, if you're hearing this,

1621
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,639
Speaker 3: you're a You're a god. But I have to say

1622
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 3: and Ben Smith interviewed him once, like ten years ago,

1623
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 3: and I was like so jealous. He was a satirist

1624
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 3: who was just there to make the jokes and just

1625
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,520
Speaker 3: vicious no matter who he was making fun of, the Democrats,

1626
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 3: the Republicans, it didn't matter, and he was so clever.

1627
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:35,560
Speaker 3: And that's still I listen. I still listen to him.

1628
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, is there is there any

1629
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:40,560
Speaker 3: satirists that you listen to?

1630
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: You know?

1631
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: I look, I know, I mean, you know, I will

1632
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:47,679
Speaker 1: say this, I've I look at the animators. I think

1633
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: the South Park guys still have captured Oh they're great. Yeah,

1634
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 1: I think they they have captured this moment better than others.

1635
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 1: I think they really do well on the culture stuff.

1636
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:00,759
Speaker 1: Like I really feel like the South Park guys really

1637
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 1: know how to sort of expose the cultural so great.

1638
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 3: Do you know one of the reasons why they're so great.

1639
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 3: I'll tell you because I did a piece about.

1640
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: Them for Nightline, like literally like twenty years ago for Nightlines.

1641
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: If you have to say Nightline, it's automatically twenty Yeah.

1642
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 2: Well they're still around, but yes, but is it? Sorry

1643
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 2: I didn't I have to be that one.

1644
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 1: I had to be reminded of it's like you're telling me,

1645
01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:23,280
Speaker 1: like twenty twenty, is that still around?

1646
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, so they did. They crash it in

1647
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:29,559
Speaker 2: a week. I mean, that's how they do it.

1648
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:32,839
Speaker 3: That's why they're so I mean they're also very very funny,

1649
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 3: and they're very very gifted storytellers, and they have no

1650
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 3: allegiance to any party, and they are making.

1651
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 1: They're true libertarians. I mean, they really are. You know,

1652
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: they're Colorado Libertarians. I say this that you know, there's

1653
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 1: a distinction. You know, you and I've done this long

1654
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 1: enough where we know you got your your East Coast

1655
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: Libertarians or one thing you're but Colorado is a different cat, right, Like,

1656
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,599
Speaker 1: it's just a different walk of libertarian and they capture

1657
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 1: it so well.

1658
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,760
Speaker 3: So they and they crash in a week. They do

1659
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 3: it in a week. It's also one of the reasons

1660
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 3: why the animation so whatever. But uh, but you know,

1661
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 3: and but they're brilliant and you know, they're the kind

1662
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 3: of thing that I remember trying to introduce my son

1663
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,920
Speaker 3: to The Simpsons, and I got ahead of myself.

1664
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:17,800
Speaker 2: He wasn't ready for it.

1665
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, my son likes Family Guy okay and South Park okay,

1666
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 1: But you know, my son's a Shane Gillis guy. He

1667
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 1: loves tires.

1668
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 3: Oh is that right, Shane gill Well, a lot of

1669
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:32,480
Speaker 3: the I mean talk about political satire, so so Shane Gillis,

1670
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 3: Ricky Gervais, Dave Chappelle, like a lot of the guys

1671
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 3: who if you said that you like them five years ago,

1672
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 3: you'd get canceled like they you're right, they really and

1673
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 3: again everybody should live and be well and pro love

1674
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 3: and all that.

1675
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 2: But like.

1676
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 3: They're I guess, I guess what about snl We didn't

1677
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,760
Speaker 3: even we haven't even mentioned snl uh in terms of

1678
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 3: political satire. I think weekend updates funny, but you know

1679
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 3: the funny two.

1680
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,600
Speaker 1: But you know the weekend that they exhausted. I'm exhausted

1681
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: from the Trump stuff. And it's not their fault, like

1682
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: you know, this is a formula and somewhat, Hey, you

1683
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: got to do the president. You got to do that,

1684
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 1: and they've been doing it for fifty years. You got

1685
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 1: to keep doing it.

1686
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 2: Right. You should read the Lorn's biography, by the way,

1687
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:19,880
Speaker 2: it's really good. But I've done a lot.

1688
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: I heard a long interview with her, and yes it is.

1689
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 2: It's a great it's a great book.

1690
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:27,439
Speaker 3: But let me just say, what I think is the

1691
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 3: funniest thing that SNL does is when Chay and Jost

1692
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 3: swamp jokes and Chay makes Jost say like the most

1693
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 3: racist jokes and.

1694
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:39,840
Speaker 1: The uncomfortable, Right, that's what you like. You and I

1695
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 1: both like a comedy that it's a little uncomfortable. Yeah,

1696
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,000
Speaker 1: And to me, maybe that satire is supposed to make

1697
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:46,640
Speaker 1: you a little long. You're not supposed to just be

1698
01:25:46,680 --> 01:25:50,640
Speaker 1: comfortable and laugh. You're supposed to be like, Oh, that's

1699
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 1: how you know it's effective satire, right, right?

1700
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 3: And so I mean I do think that that is effective.

1701
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 3: And I think we are in an era right now

1702
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 3: of people who are very very sensitive and try to

1703
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 3: impose their sensitivities on everybody else, and people who have

1704
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 3: zero sensitivities and are.

1705
01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 2: Also try to put that on everybody. Right, And.

1706
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:22,360
Speaker 3: So what I guess whatever makes me laugh? You know,

1707
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 3: I'm constantly seeking. But I don't go home and watch

1708
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 3: the news. I don't know about you. I go home

1709
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:26,759
Speaker 3: and watch Oh.

1710
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:29,719
Speaker 2: I don't either. I don't Slow Horse.

1711
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:31,839
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of sports. Oh, I like slow Horses.

1712
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't realize it was based on a

1713
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: series of books. I may, I may, that may be

1714
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 1: a summer may be a little summer fiction reading for me?

1715
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: Is that those slow horses. It's a whole series of books.

1716
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,519
Speaker 2: Did you know that I did?

1717
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 1: And apparently the Gary Oldman character and by Gary Oldman

1718
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:52,440
Speaker 1: easily top five actor of our lifetime. Right, it's unbelievable

1719
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 1: how he can just he's It's never like you always

1720
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 1: have to oh, that's Gary Oldman. You know an actor

1721
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: is good when you have to be told who it

1722
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: is and you don't know it right away.

1723
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great horses. George Clooney is always George Clooney,

1724
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:10,040
Speaker 2: Department Q. But you know what don't don't know? You

1725
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 2: shouldn't say that about George. Let me tell you why

1726
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 2: I watched.

1727
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying he's not a good actor, but

1728
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 1: there's a difference. There's two types of actors. I read

1729
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 1: this and I thought may have been behind the kinds

1730
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 1: who there's aliens and there's humans. Right, there's those that

1731
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:26,680
Speaker 1: become the character Gary Oldman does this, Meryl Streep because this,

1732
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: And then there's Harrison Ford or or even Julie Louis

1733
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: dreyfuss or, who are great, great actors kind of themselves stars.

1734
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 2: There are versions of them. Go back and watch Clooney, Go.

1735
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 3: Back and watch Clooney and Burn after reading, which is, yes,

1736
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 3: perhaps the most relevant film to today's Washington d C.

1737
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:51,040
Speaker 2: After reading.

1738
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:54,599
Speaker 1: But he's he's really good in that. I don't want

1739
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:56,000
Speaker 1: you to think. I don't think he's not good. There's

1740
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, it's just a different style of acting.

1741
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 1: Like it's the method acting. It's it's the I've got

1742
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: to become this person acting like the guy from Succession, Right,

1743
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 1: who's Jeremy Strong, right? Who other actors don't love his method? Right,

1744
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 1: there's all these there was all these Vanity Fair stories

1745
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 1: about oh he was hard to work with because he

1746
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:19,200
Speaker 1: was always in character. Right, He's one of those people

1747
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:21,719
Speaker 1: that wants to be in character versus others that don't.

1748
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 1: But I look, everybody does it differently, and I'm always

1749
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 1: fascinated with that. But Gary Oldman is just That's why.

1750
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 1: I just I just it's amazing how often I'll watch

1751
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,679
Speaker 1: something and you're like, oh my god, that was Gary Oldman.

1752
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 2: God, he's amazing. Yeah. Well, just to think that the

1753
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:39,520
Speaker 2: guy in Slow Horses is also the guy from Dracula

1754
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 2: from one hundred years ago.

1755
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 1: My point is, is apparently the reason I want to talk

1756
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:47,599
Speaker 1: Apparently the books, the character Gary Oldman plays in Slow Horses, right,

1757
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:50,240
Speaker 1: with all the farting and how disgusting he is is awful.

1758
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 1: He's really appearly. It's like appairly. He's like even more

1759
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: disgusting in the books. Oh even worse, Yes, it's even worse.

1760
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 1: How could he be worse? I know That's what I'm like.

1761
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm a little afraid of reading one of the books,

1762
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:04,840
Speaker 1: like really, so is? He literally started watching the other

1763
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: one self.

1764
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 2: In the middle of a of a of an interrogation.

1765
01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:09,639
Speaker 3: Sorry, here's another one you'll like. Is I just started

1766
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,360
Speaker 3: watching Department Q where that is?

1767
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Is that the That's an Amazon thing? Right?

1768
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:16,799
Speaker 1: This is a James Bond thing, like a spinoff.

1769
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 2: I don't you know what? I have every streamer and

1770
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 2: I don't even know. I just talked into the thing

1771
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:25,880
Speaker 2: and but oh I know what you made Department First problem,

1772
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:30,719
Speaker 2: it's Scott frank Is, this writer director who's just absolutely brilliant.

1773
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:33,920
Speaker 2: The first two isn't that? Is it a little James Is?

1774
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 2: It's basically no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not

1775
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 2: at all.

1776
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 3: It's because it's it's basically Cold Case. It's basically Cold Case,

1777
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 3: not the TV show, but the concept is Britain or

1778
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 3: America UK. Yeah, Okay, it's really good. It's it's really good.

1779
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:53,559
Speaker 3: And it's Matthew Good.

1780
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,120
Speaker 2: Do you know. I think it's pronounced good.

1781
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:59,559
Speaker 3: He's this incredibly good looking guy who he's like one

1782
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 3: of these guys. It's like like William Hurt, like a

1783
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 3: character actor, born into a leading man's body, and and

1784
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 3: he's he's in it and he's he's shaggy, and it's

1785
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 3: just it's good anyway, just recommended, just recommending. I still

1786
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:18,240
Speaker 3: need to be get caught up on films. I haven't

1787
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,160
Speaker 3: seen Sinners, I haven't seen Friendship. There's a ton I

1788
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:21,679
Speaker 3: need to say.

1789
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this.

1790
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 1: This is always something that people ask me about and

1791
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,080
Speaker 1: I don't have a good answer than I just constantly read.

1792
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 2: That's just what I do.

1793
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 1: But you're also very culturally literate, and there's always and

1794
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure people wonder where where do you find the time?

1795
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 2: You know, I get used? How do you say that? Yeah? Right?

1796
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 3: How do I get asked you? Because of the books?

1797
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, I'm very driven and obviously

1798
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 3: a little nuts.

1799
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:52,800
Speaker 2: Do you not sleep a lot? You probably don't sleep

1800
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 2: a lot, right, I.

1801
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 3: Try to No, I need no, no, no, I need.

1802
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 3: I need more than that. I try to sleep a lot.

1803
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 3: I try to go and I go through different periods

1804
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 3: where I'm like, I'm sleeping well, and then I'll go

1805
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 3: through a pier where I'm not sleeping well. I just

1806
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 3: I work a lot. I'm just constantly working. I'm not

1807
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:11,880
Speaker 3: veg I don't do a lot of vegging.

1808
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:12,439
Speaker 2: And in the.

1809
01:31:12,400 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 1: Morning at work, if you're doing that, that means it's

1810
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: not really work.

1811
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:17,600
Speaker 2: Well, that's the other thing. I really mean, if it

1812
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 2: were work, you wouldn't do it. These a different are

1813
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 2: These books are a joy. But I'll tell you, I'll

1814
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that. I'll tell you the way I

1815
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:25,599
Speaker 2: do it.

1816
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:31,680
Speaker 3: I constantly have this laptop or my iPad that I'm

1817
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:34,559
Speaker 3: drawing on with me at all times.

1818
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 2: And if I put down my.

1819
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:41,479
Speaker 3: Stupid phone and stop reading Twitter or Instagram and go

1820
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,800
Speaker 3: online and start working on Google Docs.

1821
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 1: Or all I'll say is, ever since you slowed down

1822
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 1: on social media, you've written more books. And I'm not

1823
01:31:49,880 --> 01:31:51,360
Speaker 1: saying there's a correlation.

1824
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 2: There is a correlation. I stopped. Oh no, I were

1825
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:56,360
Speaker 2: a heavy tweeter. You were heavy. It was a big tweeter.

1826
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 2: And I'm twenty fourteen to about twenty eighteen, right when

1827
01:31:58,800 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 2: you say.

1828
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 3: I don't know when I I don't know when I stopped,

1829
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:06,040
Speaker 3: but I definitely stopped. And it's funny when people like

1830
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 3: attack you for things that you haven't done in five

1831
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 3: or ten years later.

1832
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 1: I feel the same way at which look, if there

1833
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 1: are times I go back, I regret how much I

1834
01:32:16,439 --> 01:32:20,360
Speaker 1: was on Twitter in twel oh yeah, twenty twelve, totally, totally.

1835
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 3: Do I remember, like in that early experience of like

1836
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 3: twenty two thousand and nine twenty ten.

1837
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:27,040
Speaker 2: People would tweet.

1838
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 3: People would tweet, and I'm including myself in this, like

1839
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:35,080
Speaker 3: anything they were experiencing or thinking they would share, and

1840
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 3: it was almost my.

1841
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 2: Remotes not working here, you know, like tweet him, you know,

1842
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:40,479
Speaker 2: it was like, what are we doing?

1843
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 3: And I remember Mike Allen now currently of Axios, and

1844
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 3: I don't know who he was with at the time,

1845
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 3: maybe Politico or whatever.

1846
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 2: I don't remember who he's with at the time, but.

1847
01:32:50,360 --> 01:32:54,720
Speaker 3: I remember him writing something about it, and I was like,

1848
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 3: and I had tweeted something about Alice, my daughter when

1849
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 3: she was maybe like one, and it's something like, uh,

1850
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 3: you know, whatever I was experiencing with Alice at that moment,

1851
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:09,880
Speaker 3: I tweeted it, which is insane, and Mike had written

1852
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:13,600
Speaker 3: something like love Jake, love Alice, But why why is

1853
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:14,679
Speaker 3: he sharing this kind of thing?

1854
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:18,639
Speaker 2: And I just I remember thinking first I was like, oh,

1855
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 2: you know, fuck you, but then I was like, oh,

1856
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 2: he's right, yeah, no, it goes back to where and

1857
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:28,320
Speaker 2: this is going to sound I love my calens.

1858
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 1: This is going to sound like phony phoniness to some people,

1859
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:40,479
Speaker 1: and you can we shouldn't be celebrities, of course, but

1860
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: I always say it, I didn't choose, you know, I

1861
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 1: don't think you know, but somehow we became personalized to

1862
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 1: people when it came to write how they got their

1863
01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 1: political information. So rather than viewing us simply as a

1864
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 1: vehicle for information, right, they you know, were the where

1865
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: the you know. And it's just look, it's been very

1866
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 1: good to us. I'm not going to sit here and

1867
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:08,519
Speaker 1: saying it hasn't been good to us, but I think

1868
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:13,560
Speaker 1: it's I think it has set unrealistic expectations to younger journalists,

1869
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: and I think there's too many people getting into our

1870
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:18,639
Speaker 1: business wanting to be a celebrity or wanting to be famous,

1871
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:21,639
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's their motivation for it, and it's.

1872
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:24,240
Speaker 2: I will I will just say where we are.

1873
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 3: I will just say that I think the most important

1874
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 3: thing that journalists can do is report. And I don't

1875
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:35,080
Speaker 3: consider like my tweets about the Eagles to be anything

1876
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 3: other than like me having fun.

1877
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 1: Like that's all right, let me get you out of

1878
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 1: here on this. You're a Philly guy. You love all

1879
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:43,720
Speaker 1: the Philly teams, and when they're winning, you're going to

1880
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:44,799
Speaker 1: love all the Philly teams.

1881
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:50,760
Speaker 3: But when when they're currently which of they.

1882
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:51,519
Speaker 2: Are most for the most part?

1883
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 1: Right, Phillies and Eagles in particular, we can you know,

1884
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,479
Speaker 1: But of those four teams, who will you follow even

1885
01:34:58,479 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 1: when they suck? Which one of the four do you like?

1886
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 1: You'll torture yourself to keep following them, even if it's

1887
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: just a horrendous situation, Like what's the what's the true

1888
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:11,960
Speaker 1: first love of those four of those four films?

1889
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a time between the Eagles and the Phillies,

1890
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 3: depending on what the season is, I just have to say.

1891
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:19,040
Speaker 3: And then probably Eagles have a leg up right now

1892
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:21,719
Speaker 3: because they've won two Super Bowls since twenty eighteen.

1893
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:24,839
Speaker 1: I think about it, you were like, you were of amazing,

1894
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,680
Speaker 1: You were of that. I mean Wilbert Montgomery, Harold Carlmichael,

1895
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 1: Mike Schmidt. I mean that that period of seventy nine

1896
01:35:30,800 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 1: to eighty one, right where you where Philly got baseball

1897
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:36,960
Speaker 1: and Pete Rose your baseball and football we.

1898
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:38,320
Speaker 2: Were in the super Bowl.

1899
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,919
Speaker 1: Your age, your age, that's pretty That leads an impression.

1900
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,879
Speaker 1: It's like why my son is obsessed with Yes, well, exactly.

1901
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:49,720
Speaker 3: I remember when Pete Rose came to the Phillies in

1902
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 3: seventy eight, seventy nine from the Reds. And then I

1903
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:57,920
Speaker 3: remember when Tug mcgrawth through that final pitch in nineteen

1904
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 3: eighty I was eleven, and the very next year or

1905
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 3: like January February of eighty one, the Eagles were in

1906
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl. And then the eighty two eighty three

1907
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:11,519
Speaker 3: season the Sixers won the championship. So that period, I

1908
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 3: mean imagine being ten, eleven, twelve during that period, like

1909
01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 3: it was an incredible gift to young sports fans.

1910
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:22,280
Speaker 1: But then no, and that's that's how fandom, that's how

1911
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 1: it sticks. So Flyers is probably the weakest of the four.

1912
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:28,160
Speaker 3: I'm just not a hockey fan, and it's probably just

1913
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 3: because I can't follow them.

1914
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:31,720
Speaker 2: They not good. Do you think they know?

1915
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:33,960
Speaker 3: No, no, the broad state, but Bullys were great in

1916
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:37,040
Speaker 3: the seventies when I was growing up. I just, you know,

1917
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:38,960
Speaker 3: probably also a lot of this is just shape by

1918
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:41,320
Speaker 3: who your parents are rooting for and who your friends

1919
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:44,679
Speaker 3: are rooting for. Although I will say my best friend

1920
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 3: when I was in grade school, a guy named Jason Lerner,

1921
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:48,360
Speaker 3: was a huge.

1922
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:49,599
Speaker 2: Bobby Clark and Flyers fan.

1923
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:53,400
Speaker 3: And maybe if, just like life, maybe if he had

1924
01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:54,720
Speaker 3: taken me to a game, I would have become a

1925
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 3: Flyers fan.

1926
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:57,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I just I've been sitting on

1927
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:01,759
Speaker 1: a Manila envelope of for some reason, have a World

1928
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 1: Series Champion Phillies color photo from top somehow, oh my god,

1929
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,840
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and I've literally it's been for Jake.

1930
01:37:11,160 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 2: It's been sitting on my desk. So what of these times?

1931
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 2: I will remember it.

1932
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 1: When we we see each other for dinner. But I

1933
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 1: do I think of you all. I like that, the

1934
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 1: the eighty Philly stuff. I'm you know, way into sports collectibles.

1935
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:27,439
Speaker 2: These days.

1936
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:29,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I know you are too. You're sort

1937
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:32,640
Speaker 1: of a sneaky eBay guy. Comic books, what is it?

1938
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 2: Comic book, comic books, political cartoons, historical stuff. And then

1939
01:37:36,360 --> 01:37:39,400
Speaker 2: I do have I do have a bunch of baseball cards,

1940
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:42,360
Speaker 2: and I think I have almost every Mike Schmidt card

1941
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:47,720
Speaker 2: ever except for this one very obscure sticker card from

1942
01:37:47,760 --> 01:37:49,760
Speaker 2: when he was with the Puerto Rican League in like

1943
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 2: seventy one seventy two. That's how you won't find that,

1944
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:54,000
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I just got by the way,

1945
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:58,800
Speaker 2: I just got Jackie Robinson's rookie card that was a

1946
01:37:58,800 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 2: which one.

1947
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 1: Forty eight leaf for forty eight nine leaf forty okay,

1948
01:38:02,439 --> 01:38:05,320
Speaker 1: because the forty nine leaf is also.

1949
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 2: Marketed as a rookie card. It's not though right now,

1950
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:11,200
Speaker 2: I know, I know it's actually.

1951
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:14,519
Speaker 1: The same exact photo, it's the same exact everything, just

1952
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:16,200
Speaker 1: they just reprinted it in forty nine.

1953
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:19,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a lot of fakes out there also,

1954
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 3: yes there is, yeah, so but yeah, and Jackie Robinson memorabilia.

1955
01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:27,040
Speaker 3: Just because I've just become a huge Jackie Robinson fan,

1956
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:29,599
Speaker 3: it's for like thirty years, just because of who you are.

1957
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:30,519
Speaker 2: No, I've I've got it.

1958
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 1: Campanella was my dad's favorite player, So I do Campanella

1959
01:38:33,960 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 1: and Jackie, but more I've been Campingella because it's it's

1960
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: a little more affordable.

1961
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 2: Did you do.

1962
01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 3: Anything when the when so the Dolphins didn't get their

1963
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:43,720
Speaker 3: their white house visit during nick time.

1964
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:46,040
Speaker 2: I was never a Dolphins fan. My dad always right.

1965
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, my dad had a grudge against the Dolphins for

1966
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: ripping off the university, the Dolphins and the Hurricanes in Miami.

1967
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:55,280
Speaker 1: You know, my first love is college football. Is university

1968
01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 1: like that. I will fall if they're owen, if they're

1969
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 1: o and twelve, I will watch every game matter like

1970
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know, I will torture myself.

1971
01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:04,880
Speaker 2: I love everything about them.

1972
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 1: And my part of that is again, I was of

1973
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:11,719
Speaker 1: age when they dominated college foot like, so when that happens,

1974
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 1: when you're that age, you never lose it. But no,

1975
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 1: my father was not a Joe Robbie.

1976
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:24,880
Speaker 2: Do you hate University of Florida with a fashion no other? Ye?

1977
01:39:25,160 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 2: And you consider do you still consider them cheaters? Cheater?

1978
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:32,559
Speaker 1: I mean, any any member of the SEC automatically is

1979
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 1: a cheater.

1980
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 2: But did they get did they get a championship? Did

1981
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 2: they get a championship strip from them in the eighties

1982
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:37,599
Speaker 2: or something.

1983
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 1: Are on probation a couple of times. But no, they

1984
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:43,559
Speaker 1: didn't lose a title. Okay, I don't remember them getting

1985
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,439
Speaker 1: a title yanked. Okay, I think I think that happened

1986
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 1: to Kentucky basketball.

1987
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,880
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say. I wouldn't wherever John CALLI, wherever John

1988
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:52,960
Speaker 2: Colin goes.

1989
01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 3: I just remember this T shirt who says we're not

1990
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:57,360
Speaker 3: champs and it was a Florida Gator.

1991
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, there was a year where they were considered

1992
01:40:02,360 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 1: the best team, but they were ineligible to go to Do.

1993
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:06,759
Speaker 2: You edit these at all? Do you edit these podcasts?

1994
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 2: I don't like, not know, I like them up? Why

1995
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:10,639
Speaker 2: are you will have to? No, I don't care. I'm

1996
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 2: just want you know, I let it go. I let

1997
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:14,360
Speaker 2: it go. We went too long. This is too long.

1998
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:16,439
Speaker 2: But I don't care. I'm just wondering if people care

1999
01:40:16,479 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 2: about like my phillies, they'll stop.

2000
01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:22,040
Speaker 1: We'll find out only the hardcore people. I mean, you

2001
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:24,479
Speaker 1: learn this, you learn that this is the beauty of

2002
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 1: this medium. I'm surprised you haven't jumped into a podcast world.

2003
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:29,439
Speaker 2: But you know what, I'm not allowed to do yet,

2004
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:31,680
Speaker 2: and in fact.

2005
01:40:31,680 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 1: In some ways if you if you have you know,

2006
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 1: I always said my first name up until January of

2007
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:40,320
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight was meat right, and so until your

2008
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: your your first name is still going to be c Right.

2009
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:45,080
Speaker 1: For seeing Jake Tapper, and still you could be Jake Tapper.

2010
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:45,800
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it.

2011
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:48,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I would love to do it. I think

2012
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 2: it looks like you guys are all having so much

2013
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:52,160
Speaker 2: fun and like what people have been able to.

2014
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 1: Let's the fact you can have the longer conversation. I mean,

2015
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 1: my biggest frustration with television interviews is that I think

2016
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:02,120
Speaker 1: that unfortunately the I've to a ten minute interview has

2017
01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:04,599
Speaker 1: been what I call perfect. It everybody knows how to

2018
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:09,240
Speaker 1: evade it if necessary. Everybody you know it's performative. And

2019
01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:11,080
Speaker 1: I don't mean it in a pejorative way. It just

2020
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:14,799
Speaker 1: it just is. Everybody understands the time limits. Everybody understands

2021
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 1: how you can run out the clock. You know, there's

2022
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:21,360
Speaker 1: it's just much harder now. You can't be an asshole

2023
01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 1: on a podcast because you're in people's ear. You want

2024
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:27,679
Speaker 1: to make people uncomfortable with your conversation. But you can

2025
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:32,719
Speaker 1: ask probing questions without being no, you do need time.

2026
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 3: It looks like you guys are all having so much fun, honestly,

2027
01:41:35,520 --> 01:41:39,120
Speaker 3: you I mean, and you're all. Everybody's building different things.

2028
01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 3: But whether it's you or Crystaliza, or it's Atality or whatever,

2029
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 3: like everybody building different stuff.

2030
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 1: Well, we're in the middle of you know, the history

2031
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:52,960
Speaker 1: of media is new technology fragmentation, consolidation, new technology fragmentation, consolidation.

2032
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:55,920
Speaker 1: You and I both benefited from the initial fragmentation of

2033
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 1: the Internet, right, maybe we got our breaks. I always

2034
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:01,880
Speaker 1: say because of the Internet. Well, guys didn't want to

2035
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 1: do it. And I think streaming is this next thing.

2036
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:06,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is going to look like

2037
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 1: in ten years. It's going to get consolidated, but I'm

2038
01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:12,680
Speaker 1: hoping to be a consolidator and not to be consolidated.

2039
01:42:12,920 --> 01:42:15,799
Speaker 1: But other than that, that's I know, that's what. We're

2040
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 1: in the middle of a disruption. We just don't know

2041
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:24,080
Speaker 1: where the chips plate tectonics. Man, Yeah, everything's moving, Jake Tapper, congrats,

2042
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 1: that's pretty This is bestseller list four weeks in.

2043
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:28,240
Speaker 2: A row, four weeks in a row.

2044
01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:30,559
Speaker 3: I know, crazy, right, hang on, man, we were number one,

2045
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,599
Speaker 3: number one for two of those weeks, or as Fox

2046
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:35,360
Speaker 3: News says, not selling very well.

2047
01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:38,800
Speaker 1: So well there you go. Well I'm sorry you didn't

2048
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:40,720
Speaker 1: have a billionaire just purchase boxes of them.

2049
01:42:40,800 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 2: No, we sold, we do the web kitting. We're selling

2050
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 2: really really well.

2051
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 1: But it's always like a yeah, this isn't like a

2052
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:48,559
Speaker 1: Donald Trump JUNIORR bestseller right where you just sort of I.

2053
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:50,759
Speaker 3: Didn't mention him by name, but but I will say

2054
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,599
Speaker 3: that it was just very funny. Part of the book

2055
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 3: tour that was interesting was and we can talk about

2056
01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:59,320
Speaker 3: this over drinks when I'm going to be really candid,

2057
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:03,080
Speaker 3: is just the information the misinformation silos that people are in,

2058
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 3: because people were rooting against this book from the far

2059
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:09,639
Speaker 3: left and the far right, the world of normies and Strage,

2060
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:12,680
Speaker 3: the world of normies in between were very interested in

2061
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:14,519
Speaker 3: embrace the book and bought it, and the reviews were

2062
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:18,000
Speaker 3: great and all that stuff. But it was weird watching

2063
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 3: the misinformation silos and also watching and becoming content for

2064
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:26,200
Speaker 3: a bit, not the book which I want to become content,

2065
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:27,519
Speaker 3: that me becoming content.

2066
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:30,000
Speaker 2: You were content, and I know, which was weird.

2067
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:32,000
Speaker 3: It was just very weird because it's like, who is

2068
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 3: this person they're talking about and I'm not talking about anybody.

2069
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:38,080
Speaker 1: The only other author that that happens, you know that

2070
01:43:38,120 --> 01:43:40,840
Speaker 1: happened is that happens to Woodward now these days, and

2071
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:43,679
Speaker 1: it happened. It happens to Michael Wolf all the time

2072
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:46,280
Speaker 1: right these days. Part of that is the way he

2073
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:50,720
Speaker 1: drips out information, But Michael Wolf becomes the story with

2074
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:51,519
Speaker 1: his book sometimes.

2075
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't.

2076
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:55,160
Speaker 3: It was just very You didn't choose this yet, No, no,

2077
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 3: I wanted the scoops to be the news, and for

2078
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 3: the most part they were, but it was it was

2079
01:44:00,360 --> 01:44:03,320
Speaker 3: just interesting. It was very interesting because I don't pay

2080
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:04,960
Speaker 3: a ton of attention to the far left and the

2081
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:10,320
Speaker 3: far right when it comes to their misinformation silos, Like

2082
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:13,080
Speaker 3: I just don't like, it's not worth my time for

2083
01:44:13,160 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 3: people who are You.

2084
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:16,840
Speaker 1: Feel though, that you need to be informed of rabbit holes.

2085
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:18,720
Speaker 1: You need to know what rabbit holes they go down,

2086
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:20,679
Speaker 1: Like I feel like I need to know the rabbit

2087
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:24,240
Speaker 1: holes that I feel like I follow up Carlson or

2088
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 1: Rotar going down.

2089
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:30,680
Speaker 3: Well, but yes, but I feel like I am I

2090
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 3: follow enough people who are rabbit hole adjacent that that

2091
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:38,240
Speaker 3: I'm aware of some self awareness. Yeah, yeah, No, like

2092
01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:42,200
Speaker 3: I'm fully aware of Tucker Carlson's interview with Ted Cruz, right,

2093
01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:43,800
Speaker 3: I mean, and without having to like.

2094
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 2: But also that's not even a rap.

2095
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:49,479
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's that's relevant because that's the mag

2096
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:51,479
Speaker 3: of fight and Tucker and Tucker and crews are not

2097
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:52,479
Speaker 3: fringe characters.

2098
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:55,320
Speaker 2: They are they're mainstream characters, but they're they're they're part

2099
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 2: of the act.

2100
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:59,960
Speaker 3: But that said, the misinformation silos were really interesting to watch,

2101
01:45:00,200 --> 01:45:03,840
Speaker 3: and also the horseshoe theory of the misinformation silos, but

2102
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:06,520
Speaker 3: we'll talk about that some other time over cocktails.

2103
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing that this whole time where there's a

2104
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:11,559
Speaker 1: news story that's hanging over our head, that we're all

2105
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:12,280
Speaker 1: waiting for it to.

2106
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:15,559
Speaker 2: Be an act. I don't think he's gonna Yeah, well,

2107
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:18,519
Speaker 2: who knows, But you're right, you can't predict I can't.

2108
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 1: And by the time, this is very unpredictable. This is

2109
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:23,559
Speaker 1: going to drop next week. We're taping on a Thursday.

2110
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 1: In this so one would assume that there might be

2111
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:29,120
Speaker 1: breaking news you and I have to cover at some point.

2112
01:45:29,439 --> 01:45:31,000
Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you, let me tell you something about

2113
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:32,160
Speaker 2: it anymore, But who knows.

2114
01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:36,760
Speaker 3: Yoav Gallant, the former Defense Secretary for Israel told me

2115
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:40,120
Speaker 3: that just and this will be the last thing to say,

2116
01:45:40,120 --> 01:45:44,000
Speaker 3: but he told me on Wednesday on air that Israel

2117
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:52,479
Speaker 3: had degraded Iran's nuclear capability several years and so I thought, oh, well,

2118
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:56,800
Speaker 3: then President Trump doesn't need to bomb the facility at

2119
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:59,479
Speaker 3: four to oh where the nuclear Richmond's going on, because

2120
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:01,920
Speaker 3: now you have a couple extra years before they can

2121
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:05,320
Speaker 3: create a nuclear weapon. Take that opportunity to do the

2122
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:06,880
Speaker 3: diplomatic solution, which is I think what.

2123
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:07,760
Speaker 2: Trump wants to do.

2124
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:11,720
Speaker 3: But I think he's also he's really you know, he's

2125
01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:12,879
Speaker 3: really into this concept.

2126
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 1: Look as much, look as much as I I think

2127
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:19,639
Speaker 1: he's you know, temperamentally, you know, you there's probably three

2128
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:22,800
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty nine million other people that temporarily might

2129
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,080
Speaker 1: be better prepared for dealing with some of these situations.

2130
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 2: He's been jammed. And it's not an easy decision.

2131
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:33,920
Speaker 1: No resident would be sitting here because I know, one

2132
01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:36,559
Speaker 1: one one, you have some staffers that are going, look,

2133
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,519
Speaker 1: they've never been this degraded. You've never You'll never have

2134
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 1: a better chance to wipe this out than right right now,

2135
01:46:42,200 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 1: And if you don't take it, you may not have

2136
01:46:43,840 --> 01:46:46,040
Speaker 1: another chance, so yes, And on the other hand, what

2137
01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:47,160
Speaker 1: if it doesn't work right?

2138
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:49,960
Speaker 2: On the other hand, rock right on the other hand, Afghania,

2139
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:52,720
Speaker 2: rock right exactly. In the other hand, Syria. On the

2140
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 2: other hand, Benghazi, yeahah, no, it is there's I'm not

2141
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:00,679
Speaker 2: you know, we all give. It's easy to give.

2142
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe he like, lets us all

2143
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 1: watch this, you know, the sort of indecisiveness and real time.

2144
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:10,880
Speaker 1: But he isn't it. He's been put into a corner.

2145
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:12,639
Speaker 1: It's not easy.

2146
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:17,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if sympathy is the right word, but.

2147
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:20,519
Speaker 1: I look, this is the job you wanted to be president.

2148
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:21,760
Speaker 2: You know there was that.

2149
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:23,519
Speaker 1: You know, Obama used to talk about it, right, mare,

2150
01:47:23,560 --> 01:47:25,240
Speaker 1: He used to say this all the time. One the

2151
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:27,599
Speaker 1: decisions that gets to my desk are the ones nobody

2152
01:47:27,600 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 1: else wanted to make.

2153
01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:28,679
Speaker 2: Right.

2154
01:47:29,160 --> 01:47:32,160
Speaker 3: This is the this is the definition of that. Yes,

2155
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:35,160
Speaker 3: are you do you want to write? It's all out there,

2156
01:47:35,200 --> 01:47:36,479
Speaker 3: But yeah, perfect Tapper.

2157
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:40,719
Speaker 1: We we did our little We let people in on something.

2158
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:43,280
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll say, all right, please, buddy, I'll talk to

2159
01:47:43,280 --> 01:47:56,520
Speaker 2: you soon. Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. Appreciated.

2160
01:47:56,640 --> 01:47:59,799
Speaker 1: Like I said, Jake, and I we grew up professionally together,

2161
01:47:59,880 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: so and we will fight like brothers, and we will

2162
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:07,719
Speaker 1: compete like brothers, and we will protect each other like brothers.

2163
01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:10,200
Speaker 1: Let me move to a couple questions, and then I

2164
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:15,280
Speaker 1: want to share with share with you a family family

2165
01:48:15,280 --> 01:48:18,840
Speaker 1: thing that I just I feel like sharing because it's

2166
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:20,800
Speaker 1: been it's been a tough day. But I'll get to

2167
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:21,320
Speaker 1: that in a minute.

2168
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:22,240
Speaker 2: Ask Chuck.

2169
01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 1: First couple questions is when it comes from Joe D

2170
01:48:27,280 --> 01:48:32,479
Speaker 1: from Santa Maria, California. Howdy, Chuck, have been a follower

2171
01:48:32,479 --> 01:48:34,519
Speaker 1: of yours since you joined NBC in two thousand and eight.

2172
01:48:34,520 --> 01:48:36,439
Speaker 1: Appreciate all you do. Who would you put on the

2173
01:48:36,479 --> 01:48:38,960
Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore of Washington DC media figures from the last

2174
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:41,719
Speaker 1: fifty years in nineteen seventy five? Where would Tim Russer

2175
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:42,559
Speaker 1: fit into that?

2176
01:48:42,720 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 2: Thank you?

2177
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:47,160
Speaker 1: Well, look, I think since nineteen seventy five. Well, that

2178
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:52,200
Speaker 1: just talk about your recency bias, right, you know? For me,

2179
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:54,240
Speaker 1: I just I guess I look at it at the

2180
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:57,040
Speaker 1: people I trust, So you'd have to put cronkite on there.

2181
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 1: David Brinkley, you know, one of the proudest things for

2182
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:07,360
Speaker 1: me at NBC I my desk in my office was

2183
01:49:07,439 --> 01:49:09,880
Speaker 1: David Brinkley's desk. It was actually one half of David

2184
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:10,519
Speaker 1: Brinkley's desk.

2185
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:14,000
Speaker 2: He had this monster desk that had one of those

2186
01:49:14,040 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 2: like old school like it was.

2187
01:49:16,479 --> 01:49:19,240
Speaker 1: It was, you know, it had had two sides to it.

2188
01:49:19,240 --> 01:49:21,600
Speaker 1: It was like L shaped. Well you know, the L

2189
01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:25,320
Speaker 1: had been long gone, but I had the one part

2190
01:49:25,640 --> 01:49:28,360
Speaker 1: of it. And you know, I always thought it was

2191
01:49:28,360 --> 01:49:31,320
Speaker 1: a nice homage that I was sitting in Tim Russell's chair,

2192
01:49:31,360 --> 01:49:35,320
Speaker 1: working in David Brinkley's David Brinkley's desk. So I put

2193
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:39,600
Speaker 1: Brinkley Cronkite, and I'm yeah, I'm going to be a

2194
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,479
Speaker 1: homer here, and I do Brokaw and Russard, but that's

2195
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:47,599
Speaker 1: your TV, because if you'd make me do reporters, I'd

2196
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:51,160
Speaker 1: want to throw David Broder on there, particularly for political reporters.

2197
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:53,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I don't know if i'd have

2198
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:56,760
Speaker 1: enough room for four slots on that front. But I

2199
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,600
Speaker 1: look at sort of the people that helped explain politics.

2200
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 1: I think in a way that was understandable. David Brinkley

2201
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 1: I think did it as well as anybody.

2202
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:05,160
Speaker 2: First.

2203
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:07,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember Tom Broke telling me, you know

2204
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:09,680
Speaker 1: when I sort of got handed the baton. He said, Man,

2205
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 1: NBC has always been you know, he says, CBS kind

2206
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:15,519
Speaker 1: of ate our lunch in the coverage of Vietnam. That's

2207
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:18,559
Speaker 1: what he once told me, he said, But nobody topped

2208
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:22,720
Speaker 1: NBC for politics David Brinkley. Then from Brinkley, I went

2209
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:26,479
Speaker 1: to Brokon Russert, and yes, I took the baton from there.

2210
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:28,919
Speaker 1: So that's always mine. It was one of the challenges

2211
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:31,160
Speaker 1: I gave to Kristen Welker's. I reminded her of that

2212
01:50:31,200 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 1: conversation that that broke all once had with me on

2213
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 1: that front. So you know, we took pride at NBC

2214
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:40,920
Speaker 1: that we were sort of we had the best poll

2215
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:45,120
Speaker 1: in the NBC News poll. It is the gold standard,

2216
01:50:45,120 --> 01:50:48,719
Speaker 1: has been the gold standard. And I encouraged my friends

2217
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:49,240
Speaker 1: over there.

2218
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:53,080
Speaker 2: Do you know that.

2219
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:55,760
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of cheaper polling out there,

2220
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 1: but remember, you get what you pay for. That's all

2221
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:02,000
Speaker 1: I will say, you get what you pay for on

2222
01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:06,960
Speaker 1: that front. So i'd have again TV side, I gave

2223
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:12,120
Speaker 1: it to you, Cronkite, Brinkley, Brokeaw Russer. I'd put those

2224
01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:13,760
Speaker 1: four up there for now.

2225
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:14,560
Speaker 2: But that's.

2226
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:19,599
Speaker 1: Either's so many other places. I would want Chip to

2227
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:22,800
Speaker 1: sort of put up put up others on there as well.

2228
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:26,240
Speaker 1: Second question here comes from Andy g Andy from LA

2229
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:28,559
Speaker 1: home of the Dodgers. What should happen if the Nats

2230
01:51:28,560 --> 01:51:33,439
Speaker 1: get swept by the worst team in baseball history? The

2231
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:35,519
Speaker 1: Nats gets swept by, Well, we did, thanks a lot.

2232
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:38,280
Speaker 1: It's the Colorado Rockies. Here's a chance for some therapy,

2233
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 1: like Fraser Crane, I'm listening. Well, it's funny you bring

2234
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:46,080
Speaker 1: this up. I think the Knats at least got one

2235
01:51:46,160 --> 01:51:50,640
Speaker 1: from the Dodgers. It was my son sort of called it.

2236
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:52,479
Speaker 1: He says, we'll win the middle game and get blown

2237
01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:54,400
Speaker 1: out in Game three. Well, sure enough, we got blown

2238
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:57,040
Speaker 1: out in Game three. On that front, I was glad

2239
01:51:57,040 --> 01:52:00,000
Speaker 1: to see James Wood, though, hit one of the fartherish

2240
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:05,400
Speaker 1: home runs I've seen in Dodger Stadium that I can remember.

2241
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:06,240
Speaker 2: I know it.

2242
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:09,160
Speaker 1: Think it's Willie Stargel that has the longest home run

2243
01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:11,960
Speaker 1: in history out of Dodger Stadium, if I'm not mistaken Andy,

2244
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:15,960
Speaker 1: But I was happy to see James Woods show up

2245
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:20,280
Speaker 1: and uh and and make sure people saw that. Look,

2246
01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:22,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be frank here. I think the fact that

2247
01:52:22,640 --> 01:52:24,880
Speaker 1: there's been no firing of the manager, and I'm I'm

2248
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:26,760
Speaker 1: kind of a Davy guy, although I didn't like that

2249
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:29,840
Speaker 1: attack the players, So it may be that it's time

2250
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:35,439
Speaker 1: for Sometimes managers need need a need, a new need,

2251
01:52:35,479 --> 01:52:38,640
Speaker 1: a just you know, players need a new voice in

2252
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:41,520
Speaker 1: their ears, and managers need a new set of players

2253
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 1: for their old stories type of type of thing. But

2254
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:50,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what distresses me. I fear that the

2255
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:53,840
Speaker 1: reason to keep Davy was not to keep Davy. I

2256
01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:56,080
Speaker 1: fear that this was a franchise that doesn't want to

2257
01:52:56,120 --> 01:52:58,519
Speaker 1: pay two managers right because if you fire one early,

2258
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 1: you still got to pay the person. And I continue

2259
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:05,320
Speaker 1: to believe that the biggest problem that has is that

2260
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:07,719
Speaker 1: it's not clear if the owners are committed to owning

2261
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:11,200
Speaker 1: the team, And right now they are behaving like a

2262
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:14,440
Speaker 1: set of owners that are not fully committed to the team,

2263
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:17,120
Speaker 1: that are they going to sell or not, etc. And

2264
01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:21,479
Speaker 1: if you don't think that trickles down to employees, go

2265
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:23,639
Speaker 1: talk to folks at CNN right now who are about

2266
01:53:23,640 --> 01:53:25,599
Speaker 1: to get spun off. Go talk to folks at CBS

2267
01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:28,360
Speaker 1: who are wondering what Paramount's going to do. Trust me,

2268
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,840
Speaker 1: employees pay attention to this stuff when owners are messing

2269
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 1: around and it impacts morale. Don't think it doesn't. All right,

2270
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna pause my questions there. I got

2271
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:43,479
Speaker 1: a bunch of other great questions, but I got a

2272
01:53:43,479 --> 01:53:46,240
Speaker 1: bunch of episodes later this week answering. Look, I want

2273
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:47,559
Speaker 1: to share something with you. We had to put our

2274
01:53:47,560 --> 01:53:52,519
Speaker 1: dog down today, and I just want to tell you

2275
01:53:52,520 --> 01:53:57,640
Speaker 1: about Ruby. She's fourteen, and it's been really hard for

2276
01:53:57,680 --> 01:53:59,519
Speaker 1: my two kids. It's been hard for me. It's been

2277
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:01,840
Speaker 1: hard for my wife. It's been hard for my two kids.

2278
01:54:01,840 --> 01:54:05,000
Speaker 1: They're eighteen and twenty one, and Ruby's fourteen. So think

2279
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:07,720
Speaker 1: about it, right, My son was four when we got her.

2280
01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:11,240
Speaker 1: My daughter was seven when we got her. Right, this

2281
01:54:11,320 --> 01:54:13,360
Speaker 1: is not the first dog we've lost as a family,

2282
01:54:13,439 --> 01:54:18,200
Speaker 1: but this is the first dog that we've lost. They

2283
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:22,880
Speaker 1: my kids grew up with Ruby. In fact, I mean,

2284
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:25,360
Speaker 1: you guys will laugh. We get she got the name

2285
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:28,439
Speaker 1: because I remember we go pick them up and we're

2286
01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:30,200
Speaker 1: trying to figure out and we got the runt of

2287
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:35,040
Speaker 1: the litter with standard shoe, standard poodle, and we didn't

2288
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:36,880
Speaker 1: want too big of a dog. So I was always okay,

2289
01:54:36,880 --> 01:54:38,640
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, let's get the smaller. We

2290
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: already had a we had a we had a mini

2291
01:54:41,400 --> 01:54:44,160
Speaker 1: mini poodle, miniature poodle. So we were like, all right,

2292
01:54:44,240 --> 01:54:45,880
Speaker 1: let's get small. We don't want to We don't want

2293
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:49,680
Speaker 1: our little guy Mikey to get overwhelmed by a huge

2294
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:54,160
Speaker 1: standard poodle. So you know, and so we're trying to

2295
01:54:54,200 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 1: come up with the name. Well, at the time, and

2296
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,000
Speaker 1: anybody whose parents have kids of that age will remember

2297
01:55:00,680 --> 01:55:03,960
Speaker 1: my son's favorite show at four Boys. He's going to

2298
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:05,600
Speaker 1: be mad at me for bringing this up, but he's

2299
01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 1: not going to be mad for the reason I did

2300
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:11,160
Speaker 1: was Max and Ruby. And if you plot the show

2301
01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:13,720
Speaker 1: was the plot of that show was basically somehow these

2302
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:16,560
Speaker 1: two kids never had adult supervision. They went on all

2303
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:20,080
Speaker 1: these tracks and the big sister Ruby let around. Max

2304
01:55:20,240 --> 01:55:22,360
Speaker 1: was always keeping little Max.

2305
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:26,440
Speaker 2: Out of trouble. So uh and that damn song Max

2306
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:30,960
Speaker 2: and Ruby, Ruby and Max, Well somehow it you know,

2307
01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:33,240
Speaker 2: you're coming up with a name, and it had to

2308
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:33,720
Speaker 2: be Ruby.

2309
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:39,160
Speaker 1: So she was a good dog. She had a hard

2310
01:55:39,240 --> 01:55:42,240
Speaker 1: last couple of years, hard last couple of years at

2311
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:47,320
Speaker 1: kidney failure, liver failure, all those things, and she was

2312
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:51,360
Speaker 1: spent a Trooper. It's one of those couple of years

2313
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:53,800
Speaker 1: ago we were told was never going to get better,

2314
01:55:56,160 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 1: but we just wanted to make sure that she was,

2315
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:04,760
Speaker 1: that she could live a comfortable life. And then when

2316
01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:08,680
Speaker 1: she couldn't, we wanted to know, and we figured she'd

2317
01:56:08,760 --> 01:56:14,720
Speaker 1: let us know, and unfortunately she did. But man, you know,

2318
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:17,480
Speaker 1: I know we're not the only family that's ever lost

2319
01:56:17,480 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: a pet. We're not the only family that treats pets

2320
01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 1: like family.

2321
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:21,840
Speaker 2: We all do.

2322
01:56:23,800 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 1: But it's uh, it's it.

2323
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:30,600
Speaker 2: Well, you're reminded, and it's so true.

2324
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:33,240
Speaker 1: No matter how bad my day was, my dog Ruby

2325
01:56:33,320 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 1: was always happy to see me, especially if I give

2326
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:38,160
Speaker 1: her a treat. She was always happy to see me,

2327
01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:41,080
Speaker 1: especially when I was cooking and would accidentally, well not

2328
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,200
Speaker 1: so accidentally, drop stuff on the floor for her. So,

2329
01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, in a vicious town, right, Harry Truman said

2330
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:50,000
Speaker 1: it best right, If you want a friend in Washington,

2331
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:55,160
Speaker 1: get a dog. It's more true every day, as toxic

2332
01:56:55,200 --> 01:56:58,760
Speaker 1: as things get. And I think it says something my neighborhood.

2333
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:03,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure so many neighborhoods, particularly after COVID, I think

2334
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:06,360
Speaker 1: there are now more houses with dogs, more families with

2335
01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:10,920
Speaker 1: dogs than families without dogs, and this, and and cats too.

2336
01:57:10,920 --> 01:57:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to leave out my my, my, my

2337
01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:15,720
Speaker 1: friends with cat cats out there. Cats are very much

2338
01:57:16,160 --> 01:57:17,760
Speaker 1: I grew up with a cat, and I know that

2339
01:57:17,800 --> 01:57:21,959
Speaker 1: there's that. They're also sometimes not sometimes not as lovable.

2340
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:25,360
Speaker 1: Cats are so clever, right, They make you earn you know,

2341
01:57:25,480 --> 01:57:29,280
Speaker 1: they want you to earn their love if you will.

2342
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:33,280
Speaker 1: Dogs have that loyalty to them that that sometimes can't

2343
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:39,880
Speaker 1: be can't be can't be imitated. But anyway, I I'm

2344
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:43,640
Speaker 1: just sharing because it's it's one of those things you

2345
01:57:43,960 --> 01:57:46,960
Speaker 1: kind of just just I just want you to love

2346
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:51,320
Speaker 1: my dog, love your dog as much as I love mine.

2347
01:57:52,080 --> 01:57:53,680
Speaker 2: All right with that? You know?

2348
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:57,760
Speaker 1: C the Sarah McLoughlin, uh and I will see you

2349
01:57:58,160 --> 01:57:59,240
Speaker 1: the next time we unload