1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Speak to the plan in Charlamagne of God here and 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: as we come closer to closing out this year, I 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you for tuning it into 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: the Black Podcast Network. There have been so many great 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: moments over the past year. Take a listen to some 6 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: of those captivating moments in this special best of episode. 7 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: So we heard Ojay sent Some passed away from cancer 8 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: to age of seventy six. A lot of people wasn't aware, 9 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 2: you know, that he was suffering with cast So a 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: lot of people do keep that private. My mother did 11 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: for sure. It's not something that people broadcast. I don't 12 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: know how many people know it or not. Of course, 13 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: there's so many conspiracy theories that are out today. Of 14 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: course there always is. There's always going to be somebody 15 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 2: on the Internet that comes up with their own theory. 16 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: But I really wanted to jump in due to limited time, 17 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: and thank you for taking at you in time today. 18 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: There's so many different layers to this, so many different 19 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: we can peel this onion all day. I really want 20 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: to go back to nineteen ninety five. But now I 21 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: know there's gonna be people who will say, you know, 22 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: focus on the good things, focus on the NFL and 23 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: eleven seasons focus on the Heisman Trophy, focus on how 24 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: he was regarded as one of the greatest running backs 25 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: of all time. I know people say, don't talk about 26 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: the negative, don't talk about you know, all of the 27 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: negative things. The reality of it is, when you are 28 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: a public person, all of those things will be talked about. 29 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: Even if you're not a public person. You go just 30 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: to your cousin's funeral, people are gonna talk. They're gonna 31 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: talk about the memories that that person left. And one 32 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: of the most impactful memories that people have of O. J. Simpson. 33 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: Many people who were introduced to O. J. Simpson, at 34 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: least speaking for myself in high school because when he 35 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: was in his prime or wasn't old enough to know 36 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: who he was, or you know, people may be familiar 37 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: he did ah learn good Yeah, went on good times 38 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 2: and did hurts and all that. But I was a 39 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: little girl. I didn't know that. So my really first 40 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 2: introduction of learning who O. J. Simpson was and learning 41 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: about him and everything about him was through the O. J. 42 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: Simpson trial because I was young, so I learned everything. 43 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: And one of the things in the trial is presenting 44 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 2: that person's life from beginning to end. So I want 45 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 2: to go back to that time where we were as 46 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: a culture and where we are now, and if we can, 47 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: if you will compare the two, because a lot has 48 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 2: changed over nineteen ninety five versus now at that time, 49 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: and then I'm gonna flip it to you. At that time, 50 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: there was a Black America many said that he did 51 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: not do it. There was also Black America that said, 52 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: if he did, let's charge it to the game. What 53 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: I have noticed is in this generation many have basically said, 54 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: I remember there was a time where you just could 55 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: not get into a discussion on over the sense what 56 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: I said, there's no way he didn't do it, didn't 57 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 2: do it. But now as more evidence has come out, 58 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: now that the book he wrote it, if I did 59 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: it has come out, Now that even there was a 60 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: mean today that they were sharing where he was mocking 61 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,839 Speaker 2: stabbing somebody. Now that more and more has come out, 62 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: there is a sector of Black America that now is saying, 63 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: you know what, it might be some truth to it, 64 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: but we're still going to charge it to the game. 65 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 2: So take us back, doc prepared from your perspective, Where 66 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: were we in nineteen ninety five. 67 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: So let's tek a quick step back. Patrick Mahomes is 68 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 3: arguably the most celebrated football player of his generation, and 69 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 3: even he. 70 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 4: Wasn't isn't what O. J. Simpson was as an actor. 71 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 4: For those of us who grew up in the seventies, 72 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 4: we watched the juice during the impossible two thousand yards 73 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 4: of the season, things that were not even seen, and 74 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 4: he was universally regarded as the greatest of all time. 75 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 3: So for many of us who grew up during the seventies, 76 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 3: he was for us, our for a integrated team on 77 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 3: our league, were seen as not just actores, but individuals 78 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 3: who transcended. At times, Jim Brown along those same lines. 79 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: These were men who are black but who transcended there 80 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 3: in their role as an athlete, and he knew me 81 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 3: their way into what we now know is mainstream. During 82 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: that time, we didn't have access to somebody's every move. 83 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: We could only live through the law that was created 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 3: through the media. At that time that many of us 85 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 3: had three networks ABC, NBC A, CBS, and there were 86 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 3: not twenty four hours where could do so we had 87 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 3: limited access, and so when we got access it was 88 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: through the way in which that person was portrayed in 89 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 3: this case, he was portrayed as a europe He was 90 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,119 Speaker 3: protuding in that absolute hero, putting that on the shelf 91 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: for a moment. 92 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety one, just a couple of years. 93 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 3: Before, we still did not have much success to do. 94 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 3: We were at large, and there were rumors and lords 95 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 3: and experiences of African Americans in this country of being 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: mistreated by the police, mistreated by the justice system. And 97 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety one, we saw for the first time 98 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 3: in maps in American history, a black man in the 99 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 3: Ronnie King being beaten to what appeared to be with 100 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: it each is. 101 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: Up his death. And now you mean just to put 102 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: a pin right there, meaning we we saw what we 103 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 2: already knew. I just want to put because many of 104 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 2: us saw it, but we confirmed that we know correct. 105 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 3: But in the country, yes, for the first time, we 106 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: all saw it. I remember being in college there at 107 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: that time, and I remember white kids coming to my 108 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 3: dorm room and they were sterned, like, oh my God, 109 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: can you believe it? 110 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: Y'all can believe it. 111 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: The only thing I can't believe is that we finally 112 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 3: caught it on video. We finally caught and so we 113 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 3: as many of us, not the American at the time, 114 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: especially young black people as I was, we just knew 115 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 3: got these mugs. This time we finally got They asked 116 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 3: this time, watch and see what's gonna happen. Watch and 117 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: see what's. 118 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,119 Speaker 2: Going to happen. 119 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: Not watching, see what all these people are out of 120 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 3: one you're going to do. Watch and see where you 121 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 3: have the video of this man being beaten to. All 122 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 3: of them get off, every single one of them, get off. 123 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 3: The streets turn into riots. People both they say what 124 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: they gotta say, and then shortly on the heels of that, 125 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: our hero is the juges cournal White. That's the context 126 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: of the beginning of the oj Except trial. It's not 127 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 3: probable that a man of his uh uh, the station 128 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: in life would do something like that, and many of 129 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: us startled even thinking, hurdy that White, who with all 130 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: that o j except to that who would do So 131 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: that's how we start this conversation. The conversation start to 132 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: what is today's Patrick mahons, what is the nineties? Uh uh? 133 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 3: Michael Jordan, a man who transcended his sport was an 134 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 3: international phenomenon, being accused of the most gruesive after all 135 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 3: killing the white that he had and the mother gho 136 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: children in cold, gruesome blood. That's the foundation of the country. 137 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: Now, the next layer to that would be I want 138 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: you to take us back to the obvious on It 139 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: wasn't just a wife and a mother, it was a 140 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: white one. Now again, at that time, I was in 141 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: high school and I was not the lens that I 142 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: was looking through. Well, let me be clearing my mother 143 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: because she was a news director's assistant, because she was 144 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: in the media. My first professional meeting was in ABJ 145 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: National Association Black Journey. My mother was very mindful of 146 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: rest and peace of My mother also passed away with cancer, 147 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: but very mindful of images, very mindful of For example, 148 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: I tell people all the time, I couldn't watch Sanford 149 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: and Son. She didn't like the fact that a black 150 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: man was calling his son a dummy. Where many people 151 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: find that Shawhan Larry's great comedy. She didn't like it. 152 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: I could not watch a Good Time. That's right, that's right, 153 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: that's right. I could not watch Good Times. We know 154 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: that we're gonna be unpacking that because we know that's 155 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: about to come out on Netflix, and that has sparked 156 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: a lot of conversation. I'm sure you and I unpacked that. 157 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: But what's so interesting this I just want to put 158 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: a pin with that. Even with Good Times now, how 159 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: they're seeing it in almost a parody form. We don't 160 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: know yet what that looks like. That's how my mother 161 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: saw it then, So when I see people applaud it 162 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: and say, oh, man, Good Times one of the best 163 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: shows ever in history. Yes it was a black father, 164 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: yes it was a black mother, all of those things. 165 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 2: But my mother had the same problem with it that 166 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: the actors had with it behind the scenes. So although 167 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: I did sneak to watch those shows, she was very 168 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: much against it. But she was very much supportive be 169 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: watching George Jefferson. She was proud of the fact that 170 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: he was an entrepreneur, She was proud of moving on up. 171 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: She wanted to know, well, when are they gonna ever 172 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: out the ghetto on Good Times? When is it ever 173 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: gonna be you know, when we ever get to the 174 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: other side. I'm saying on her to say, doctor par 175 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: because I'm trying to set the scene going back to man, 176 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: I wish my mother was alive so we could talk 177 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: about this. Many reason I wish he's alive but this 178 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: is one. But I'm trying to I'm trying to paint 179 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: a picture for the listeners on what that meant. When 180 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: I would come in from school and we would pop 181 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: in the teeth that had a yellow piece of time, 182 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: I mean, even be a chance we have either a 183 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 2: white or yellow sticker on it. I can see it's 184 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: so clear. And we would watch this and unpack this 185 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: because my mother wanted me to know what was happening 186 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: in the media, what we're seeing in the media, which 187 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: we see with the infamous Johnny Cochrane. It was surreal 188 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: to me to be standing next to the Carl Douglas 189 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: just a couple of years ago at a press at 190 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: one of his press conferences with Attorney cra Carral Douglas is. Yes, 191 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: so Carl Douglas. For those who are not familiar with 192 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: this case, Carl Douglas was one of the members of 193 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: the Dream Team, the infamous Dream Team that Johnny Cochrane 194 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 2: put together, well that we can say that he I 195 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 2: don't want to say put together, because OJ selected his team, 196 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 2: but Johnny Cochran ended up leading that team after the 197 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: Kardashian his friend at the time, was not leading the team. 198 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: In the direction that OJ believed it need to go 199 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: in and Johnny Cochran came in and changed it, and guys, 200 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 2: if you'reknocking me with the ODA says in case, it 201 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: is so many different movies. Documentary stinks, but I encourage 202 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 2: you to watch them all and power together and then 203 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: go on YouTube and watch the actual trial. They still 204 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: have the trial available every single day of YouTube. So 205 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 2: Carl Douglas was a member of the Dream Team. So 206 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: for me to be standing next to him two years 207 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: ago in one of his cases, it was just surreal. 208 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: I'm taking you back to that Doctor Perry, because when 209 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 2: I was watching this Eve and through the Lands of 210 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 2: a Teenager, I was looking at all of those different things, 211 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: and we knew. What I knew about interracial relationships at 212 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: the time is not what I know now. So it 213 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: was not just but my mother put me up on 214 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: game that it was not just about a man killing 215 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: his wife, but it was a white wife. And so 216 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 2: then the conversation started happening. People are even saying it 217 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: in the comments now, if he killed his black wife, 218 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: it would have never been a thing. You said. You 219 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: were in grad school at the time. What was the 220 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: conversation about it being a white woman at the time, 221 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: and why did that make a difference, and why did 222 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 2: we give a pass? Because let's be honest about it. O. J. 223 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: Simpson to many abandoned his community. Johnny Cochrane had to 224 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: go in and blackify without a new word that I 225 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: just made up today his house so that when the 226 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: jurors came by he was a He took all the 227 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: white pictures off the wall and put black pitches on 228 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: the wall. So take us back to what how were 229 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: you guys looking at it about his Yeah. 230 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,599 Speaker 3: So I was I was in social work school, which. 231 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 5: Was overwhelmingly white and female. I was I am the 232 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 5: only African American male who graduated from my class in 233 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five. 234 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 3: So the comsations were lopside, to say the least. And 235 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 3: it wasn't just that she was white. She was and 236 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 3: you'll understand the term that she was pretty. She was 237 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,239 Speaker 3: a pretty white woman. 238 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: Blonde and blonde and all that matters. 239 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: It does matter. And during that time, one of the 240 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 3: things that was happening in the media, which we referred 241 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: to back then, which is mostly magazines, is they would 242 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 3: actually darken his picture to create a more brooding aesthetic. 243 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: So they would go they would put filters on his 244 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: picture on the cover of Newsweek and other magazines where 245 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 3: they darkened his esthetic. Now keep in mind, during the 246 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 3: same time, during the same time period, Mike Tyson was 247 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 3: already in prison for rape. 248 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: So you have our. 249 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 3: Heroes, and again, by parallel, you'd be looking at and 250 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 3: I don't mean to make the parallel. I don't want 251 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: to put this on this brother, but the likes of 252 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: a Pat Mahomes, the likes of a Lebron James, you know, 253 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: the lights on the money Madeweather, Like these cats were 254 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: at the top of their game in terms of as athletes, 255 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: as entertainers, and as wealthy people. These were the same 256 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: things that. 257 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: Were happening during that time. 258 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 3: So we were now looking at a global phenomena, an 259 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 3: actor who was being accused of killing a pretty white woman. 260 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: And so the presentation of it was the most taboo 261 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 3: of taboo. Whos we ain't talking about just whistling and 262 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: a white woman that Emmettil was accused of. We're talking 263 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: about full fledged murder. So for many of us, it 264 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 3: was like, oh, if he is accused of killing a 265 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 3: white woman, it's a rap you know, so said too bad, brother, 266 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 3: you about to get deaf, finalty two three times in 267 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 3: a row. 268 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: You gonna die. 269 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 3: And there was no notion that there was such a 270 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 3: thing as an African American who had the financial wherewithal 271 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 3: to be able to hire attorneys of the caliber that 272 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: he was able to every single way that, you know, 273 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 3: a social work school in Philadelphia at the time, my 274 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 3: knowledge of attorneys was public offenders or whoever you knew, 275 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: who knew somebody would get you in there. Basically, you 276 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 3: were still going to be guilty, but you would be 277 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 3: you wouldn't go to prison, but the entire rest of 278 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 3: your life, and you rolled on somebody, you might be 279 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 3: able to see the light of day at some point. 280 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 3: So this notion that you could even conceive that you 281 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: might get off that was something that was inconceivable. So 282 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: I remember where I was the day that he was 283 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 3: found now guilty. I watched the case myself. During that time, 284 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: I was doing an internship for an African American man. 285 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 3: It was pretty wealthy and during that time I was 286 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: doing an internship and in his office they had, you know, 287 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 3: to see it in you're watching it, and I remember 288 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 3: we were all sitting in the conference room, and I 289 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 3: remember thinking, OJ. 290 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: Goer jail, OJ get a death sentence. 291 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: Oh you're gonna die. And then I remember seeing the 292 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: verdict and I remember that seeing in if it was 293 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 3: what because I was watch just seeing it in the time. 294 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: I remember they went to I think it was Howard University, 295 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: and people jumped up like we had just won the 296 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 3: the election of President Obama. They all there was just 297 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: like this hooray. 298 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: And I'll be. 299 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 3: Honest with you, I grew up watching someone be domestic. 300 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 5: I grew up in a domestic violenceshold. 301 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: Uh for the time that they were together, and I 302 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 3: remember knowing what it's like to watch my mother under 303 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 3: those conditions. And as a social worker, I had seen 304 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: it enough time that I had seen it. And as 305 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 3: a black man, there was a part of me that thought, 306 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: did we just did we just get away with us? 307 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 3: We didn't get away with the Rody King thing, didn't 308 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 3: get away with the Mike Tyson thing. Did we just 309 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: get away with this boy a spell? Even as somebody 310 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 3: was going with a master's on social work, the complexity 311 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 3: of the emotions like wow, I never thought for a second, 312 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: and to this day, I never thought that he was innocent. 313 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: I didn't. Still, you know, there was a time you'd 314 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 2: never say that people would just you know, yeah, because 315 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: people truly Johnny Cochrane had a way. And this is 316 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: what I actually teach a class on the how to 317 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: win in the court of public opinion. He created such 318 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: an environment that people actually believed that ol J. Simpson 319 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 2: and people can are still debating this to this day, 320 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: that people believe that it's no way that one man 321 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: could do this, even though they showed how. It's I 322 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: those people who have stabbed multiple people at that time 323 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 2: or had the way, even though they shown and even 324 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: though the blood was everywhere, even though the DNA was everywhere, 325 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: even though you know, his hand was cut, even though 326 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: Johnny Cochran did such a masterful job of his job. 327 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: So let's just pat was there for a moment. Let's 328 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: really deal with what people were celebrating, the majority of 329 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 2: what black people were celebrating. It was not a matter 330 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: of Now, there were people who believed he didn't do it, 331 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: but there was not a matter of if he did 332 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 2: it or didn't do it. It was what you said, 333 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: did he actually get away with just and did a 334 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 2: black man an attorney make that happen. Was the system 335 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: finally beat? But what I think is interesting is how 336 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 2: O Jay sentence because even at that time he went 337 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 2: to the Black Church like Johnny Carker really did it, 338 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: like he brought him to the Black Church. He did all. 339 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: Imagine if that happens now. 340 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: Once again, thank you for tuning into the Black Podcast Network. 341 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: Seeing you in twenty twenty five for more great moments 342 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: from your favorite podcast.