1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to the Therapy for 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: Let Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the episode after 13 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. One factor that is critical 14 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: to our mental health is proper sleep, but getting a 15 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: good night's rest sometimes seems easier said than done. So 16 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: to help us hopefully sleep a little better today, we're 17 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: joined by Ebenia osibod On Yelli. Ebena is a licensed 18 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: marriage and family therapist into Mecula, California. Her practice focuses 19 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,919 Speaker 1: on incorporating scripture into treatment, helping women struggling with anxiety, 20 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: self esteem issues, and difficulties with assertiveness. She also assists 21 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: women in finally falling and staying asleep utilizing cognitive behavioral 22 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: therapy for insomnia. She and I chatted about some of 23 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: the primary causes of insomnia, lifestyle choices that might make 24 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: it difficult to sleep, how are sleep has changed during 25 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: the pandemic make and she shares tips for how to 26 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: improve sleep hygiene. If something resonates with you while enjoying 27 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: our conversation, please be sure to share it with us 28 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session. Here's 29 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Vigner, 30 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, Dr Joy. It's so good to be here. Yeah, 31 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to chat with you. You know, sleep, 32 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: I think it's one of those things that is often 33 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: not paid enough attention to as it relates to mental health. 34 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: But we know that there are so many ways that 35 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: our mental health is actually impacted by sleep. So I 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: wonder if you can just get us started by talking 37 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: about some of the most common sleep disorders that clients 38 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: will come into the sessions with you for. Oftentimes it 39 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: is insomnia that's a huge one. They just cannot sleep. 40 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: Very rarely. It would be hypersomnia, sleeping way too much, 41 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: and sometimes clients are coming in with nightmares. What are 42 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: usually related to some type of underlying trauma going on. 43 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: Usually it's insomnia. That's a big one. Mm hmm. So 44 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: can you define insomnia for us? Okay, so how you 45 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: know that you have insomnia? Because people ask me this 46 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: all the time. So if you cannot fall asleep within 47 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: I'd say about an hour or stay asleep, and it's 48 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: been going on for more than two to three weeks, 49 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: then you do have insomnia. Because some people are like, well, 50 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: you know, I can have a job interview tomorrow and 51 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: I can't sleep. Well, that's more nerves than insomnia. So 52 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: it has to be going on for a while before 53 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: you can categorize it as insomnia. Mm hmmm. That's helpful. 54 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: The duration as well as like the time, that really 55 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: is helpful. So you've already mentioned like sometimes like stuff 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: like anxiety, right like we're worked up or stressed about 57 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: interview or a big day something happening. Can you see 58 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: a little bit more about some of the underlying causes 59 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: of it insomnia? Well, the first is physical, so it 60 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: could be hormones out of balance or some type of 61 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: a vitamin deficiency or health issues chronic pain, for example, 62 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: that would obviously keep you awake for a lot of people. 63 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: But when it comes to our mental health, it could 64 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: be trauma, trauma related, or it could be anxiety related, 65 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: it could be depression related, and sometimes there might be 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: also psychosis that's keeping you up at night. But the 67 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: first thing that I tell everybody is go to the 68 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: doctor first, and let's rule out all the physical stuff. 69 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: And if they determine that it's not physical, then we 70 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: can start to focus on the emotional. So I just 71 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: want to back up a second. So you mentioned hormones. 72 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: Can you say more about it? I feel so we 73 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: see this a lot in women who are pre menopausal, 74 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: or even some women who are not pre menopausal. Sometimes 75 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: their estrogen is out of whack, and I think this 76 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: is when a lot of women freak out in this 77 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: m I and menopause, and I'm like, relax, relax, relax, 78 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: go to the doctor first. And we also see this 79 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: in women who have pcos. Sometimes their hormones are out 80 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: of balance. But once they're able to get those hormones 81 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: in check, then we start doing some of those CBT 82 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: techniques good sleep hygiene to get them sleeping well. Again, 83 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: do we also or do you also see some of 84 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: this around minstrel cycles or there are changes and I 85 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: sleep that happened there. Yes, a lot of women don't 86 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: have PMS symptoms and they just cannot sleep. Sometimes it's 87 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: because of pain, or sometimes it's again those hormones are 88 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,799 Speaker 1: out of whack during the menstrual cycles, and those women 89 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: usually send them to a functional medicine doctor for example, 90 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: who put them on supplements to just keep those hormones 91 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: more balanced so that they can sleep better. But yes, 92 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: that does happen at an EXACS because every month, for 93 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: a week they are struggling with insomnia. Mm hmmmmmm. So 94 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: you mentioned CBT as a wake after we have ruled 95 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: out anything physical, So I think that that's really important, right. 96 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: So it sounds like the first step is make making 97 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: sure you check with your primary care physician or whoever 98 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: takes care of your health to rule out anything physical. 99 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: And then is CBT typically like your first go to 100 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: work through things like insomnia. Yes, CBT is my absolute 101 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: go to, and because most people that struggle with insomnia 102 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: also have underlying anxiety, I'll also do some DBT as 103 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: well to help them with distress tolerance because it is 104 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 1: extremely stressful to be laying in the bed night after 105 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: night everyone is asleep and there you are just staring 106 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: at the ceiling. It's so anxiety provoking. So I'll do 107 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: some CBT around the thoughts. A lot of times there 108 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: are a lot of negative thoughts about I will never sleep, 109 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to die because I cannot sleep, something bad 110 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: is going to happen to me, I'm gonna lose my job. 111 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,679 Speaker 1: Like you just think about the worst possible thoughts, which 112 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: then worsens the stress. And when your body is under stress, 113 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: it's really hard for it to shut down at night. 114 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: So yes, CBT is my too for in some new work. Yeah, 115 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: and I want to back up a little bit because 116 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: we have alluded to you like the mental health impact 117 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: that not getting enough sleep haass. But I would love 118 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: for you to talk more in depth about like how 119 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: exactly does it look when we are not getting enough sleep? 120 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So physically a lot of people are 121 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: getting chronic headaches or they just feel like they have 122 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: butterflies in there, telling me all the time it's nervous feeling, 123 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: but mentally it is this I would describe it as 124 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: angst like I cannot sleep and all I want is 125 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: to sleep, and there's this obsession with sleep, which also 126 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: comes with a fear about sleep. So all you can 127 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: think about is getting sleep, but you also fear night 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: time because in your mind you know you're not going 129 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 1: to sleep. And then it's this self fulfilling prophecy. See 130 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: I said it, My body will never shut down. And 131 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: that's when sometimes the anxiety and the depression around sleep 132 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: start to form. And then some people will actually develop 133 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: sleep phobia around this because they're terrified of evening time, 134 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: they're terrified of nighttime, and it's just really, really horrible. 135 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: And then of course your concentration is just completely gone, 136 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: your mood is shot, very quick tempered because you haven't slept. 137 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: You're exhausted all day long. Mm hmmm. Yeah. You know 138 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: when I talked to my clients sometimes about you know, 139 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: we know what happens to toddler's when they miss their naps, right, 140 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: and so if you think about like an adult version 141 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: of like a tantrum or or mildown, like, it sounds 142 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: like that's what you're describing. Absolutely, it's almost sad because 143 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: friends and loved ones don't understand. They say, why are 144 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: you so cranky? Why are you such a bad mood? 145 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: All because you didn't get enough sleep. But it's the 146 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: agony of just laying in the bed for hours, and 147 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: they often feel like they're the only ones going through this, 148 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: and loved ones often minimize it unfortunately, So I mean 149 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: you do. We typically see sleep issues like insomnia kind 150 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: of pop out out of kind of nowhere or there. 151 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: Typically something that like will trigger it. It's usually something 152 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: that triggers it. But when people come to me, they 153 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: often say, I've never been able to sleep. Well, that's 154 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: not true, because at some point you were sleeping. So 155 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,239 Speaker 1: then we go all the way back and it's typically 156 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: something that happened. It could be a loved one, or 157 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: it could be a death of a loved one, or 158 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: it could be a big move or a very stressful job, 159 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: or maybe hormonal changes or physical changes or some type 160 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: of imbalance that's going on. So then my job is 161 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: to dig deep to figure out what triggered this and 162 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: then we can move forward from there. But typically something 163 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: happened to cause this, because most people were sleeping well 164 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: when they were five years old. So I always remind 165 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: them that I said, your body was able to sleep 166 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: at some point, so it will be able to sleep again. 167 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: We just have to figure out why it's not sleeping. 168 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. So can you walk me through maybe some 169 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: of the things that you do with clients to help them. 170 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: So you've already talked about using CBT kinds of techniques, 171 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: what kinds of thing things, and what kinds of questions 172 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: are you asking them? What kinds of strategies are you 173 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: working with them on to help them get better sleep. 174 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: So a lot of it is understanding the science of 175 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: sleep and understanding that our bodies are engineered to sleep, 176 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: because the first thing clients will say is I'm just 177 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: not one of those people who's able to sleep. And 178 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: so then when we rewind and say how are you sleeping, 179 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: when you retend, oh, I slept no problems, So your 180 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: body didn't know how to sleep at some point, right, 181 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: reassuring them first that your body will be able to 182 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: sleep eventually. And a lot of it is really just 183 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: tackling the negative thinking around sleep and the fears of 184 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: the bedroom, because a lot of my clients don't even 185 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: go into the bedroom anymore. They'll just go get changed 186 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: and then they go and sleep in the living room 187 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: or in the car or somewhere else because they're just 188 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: terrified of the bedroom. So then we have to do 189 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,239 Speaker 1: a little bit of exposure therapy to get them comfortable 190 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: in the bedroom again. And then in addition to that 191 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: is it's a lot of sleep hygiene and lifestyle habits. 192 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: So a lot of people are doing things that are 193 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: triggering insomnia, but they don't know it, right, So the 194 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: drinking of the coffee at seven pm, or just living 195 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: in a dark cave. I always say, are you living 196 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: in a dark cave? Not wanting to expose our eyes 197 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: to sunlight? There's a reason why, because our body cycles 198 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: just go with sunlight. So when you expose your eyes 199 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: to sunlight in the morning, your body temperature rises, what 200 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: triggers some hormones to be produced, which keeps your wig 201 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: And then as the sun sets and it gets darker, 202 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: your body temperature falls, which then triggers melatonin to be produced. 203 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: So it's a lot of science things and then they're like, oh, 204 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: that makes sense, Okay, I can do that. So it's 205 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: just little tiny habits that we can change to encourage 206 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: our bodies to start to produce melatonin at the right time, 207 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: which is at nighttime. M hmmm. So I wonder if 208 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: there are other sninky kinds of things like I think 209 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: most of us are aware of, like coffee and caffeine, 210 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: But I think there are other things that, like the 211 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: lifestyle issues that you're talking about, that may be contributing 212 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: to us not getting enough sleep. What are some of 213 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: those other things? So exercise. A lot of people that 214 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: have insomnia just don't move anymore because they say I 215 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: have no energy. But exercising at the right time could 216 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: actually help your body trigger all the right chemicals so 217 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: that you can sleep at night, not laying in the 218 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: bed constantly, which as usual. They look at me like, 219 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: I'm only getting two hours of sleep at night, and 220 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: you're telling me to get out of the bed. Yes, 221 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: get out of the bed. Reason being, when you are 222 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: laying in the bed in agony, feeling anxious or depressed constantly, 223 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: your body begins to think that your bedroom is a 224 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: place of agony. Right, So, if you're laying in the 225 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: bed and say you haven't been able to sleep in 226 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: thirty minutes or one hour, get out of the bedroom. 227 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: Go out of the bedroom, go somewhere else to do 228 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: something else. Don't go up out there thinking about sleep 229 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: and worrying. Just go out there and do something else. 230 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: Read a book, you can watch some TV. I'm fine 231 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: with that. Come back in and you do the thirty 232 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: minutes on, thirty minutes off. First of all, that wears 233 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: you out. Second of all, that is really boring, and 234 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: eventually your body will just shut down because it's just 235 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: sick of the back and forth. I haven't had one 236 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: client successfully do that twice. By the time they leave 237 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: and come back, they're just like, I'm just I was 238 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: so exhausted, I fell asleep. So it's little things like that. 239 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: Or you know, as soon as you you get up 240 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: in the morning, open up your blinds or your pertinents 241 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: so that your eyes can hit sunlight, and don't linger 242 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: in the bed. So a lot of people with insomnia 243 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: are sleeping in too much. Get out of the bed 244 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: as soon as possible, within thirty minutes of waking up, 245 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: because when you're just laying in the bed awake, that 246 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: tells your body that your bedroom is a place of 247 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: work or wakefulness as opposed to a place of sleep. 248 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: Good sleepers often don't spend a ton of time in 249 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: the bedroom, but people with insomnia I find are like, 250 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: how long do you spend in a bedroom. They're spending 251 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: like ten twelve hours in the bedroom, So then your 252 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: body doesn't know that it's a place of sleep. It 253 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: thinks it's a place where you just wake up and lounge. Mmm. 254 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: So you mentioned like the right time for exercise. When 255 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: is the right time for us to exercise to make 256 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: sure we're like not messing up our sleep. Morning time 257 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: is usually best. Morning time is usually best because then 258 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: your body temperature rises, which then triggers wakefulness in the body. 259 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: But if you're not a morning person, as long as 260 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: you're not working out, I'd say within four hours of bedtime, 261 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: so early morning or mid morning or maybe early afternoon. 262 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: But if you struggle with insomnia, just ditch the evening 263 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: workout until your sleep has leveled off. Then you can 264 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: go back to working out in the evening because for 265 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: some people, working out actually energizes them. Mm hmmmmm, yeah. 266 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: I mean we hear about these endorphins, right, So you 267 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: do want to be careful not to get that boost 268 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: in endorphins when you're actually supposed to be laying down 269 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: exactly exactly, got it, got it? So you mentioned sleep hygeine, 270 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: which we use that term to talk about all the 271 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: things you need to do to have a nice bedtime routine. 272 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: Can you talk about what kinds of other things should 273 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: go into a sleep hygeene? Okay, so then if you 274 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: struggle with insomnia, it means that your body has a 275 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: hard time relaxing or shutting down. Some people's minds are 276 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: just so busy from the work day that they can't 277 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: just lay in the bed and shut it off. So 278 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: have an actual bedtime. A lot of adults are surprised 279 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: that I say this, have an actual bedtime. We have 280 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: bedtimes for our kids because it creates good structure. And 281 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: when you go to bed around the same time every 282 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: single day, your body produces melatonin around the same time 283 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: every single day, so it's predictability within your body. An 284 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: hour before bed, shut everything down normal electronics because those 285 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: electronics produce blue light, which for some people will prevent 286 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: melatonin production. Not everyone. Some people can stare at the 287 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: phone and five minutes later they're fast at sleep. I'm 288 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: one of those people, Like I could be in the 289 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: bed on the phone and then I'm like fastest. But 290 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: not everybody can do that. So shut down the phone 291 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: and start to create a routine that works for you. 292 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: For some people it is stretching. For other people it 293 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: is prayer or meditation. For other people it is taking 294 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: a nice, warm shower. Some people like a cold shower. 295 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: If that works for you, great, drinking a nice you know, 296 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: cup of tea, something relaxing. You know you don't want 297 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: coffee at night. Doing something that just feels relaxing, and 298 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: then just gently go into the bedroom. You can do 299 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: some like reading. Now a word about reading, do not. 300 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: I had a client tell me she listens to murder 301 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: podcasts before a bit, and I'm like, and you're wondering 302 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: why you're having these dreams And then she was like, oh, 303 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm like no, no, ladies, And I know we love 304 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: our murder podcast, but probably not at nighttime. You don't 305 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: want to listen to, or watch or discuss anything that 306 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: is anxiety provoking or scary. So those horror movies that 307 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: we love to watch at night, Dateline and all those 308 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: scary things not at night. So you want to think 309 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: relaxation even about your bedroom. When you walk into your bedroom, 310 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: what feelings come up for you? Do you look at 311 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: your bedroom and go I hate this place. And you 312 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: don't have to spend a ton of money or anything 313 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: like that. Let go of the clutter. If you can 314 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: let some light in in the morning, you know, spruce 315 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: up the place a little bit. Invest in some soft sheets. Again, 316 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: these things do not have to cost a lot of money. 317 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: I'm not someone who's like go and splurage and by 318 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: the most expensive threadcount. Nothing like that. Just sheets that 319 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: don't feel itchy. Even what do you wear to sleep? 320 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: Is it comfortable? I'm a fan of cutting because it's breathable. Right. 321 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: You can do some candles that have nice smells, like lavender, 322 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: for example, cedar. Would those really help with relaxation and calm? 323 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: Putting on music or sounds of nature. You want to 324 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: think about creating a spa environment in your bedroom, So 325 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: think about sights, sounds, smells, and touch and maybe even 326 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: taste if you're someone who likes to drink tea, So 327 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: think about all of those things when you walk into 328 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: the bedroom. You want it to signal this is a 329 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: place of risk. And also dim the lights at night 330 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: so that your brain begins to understand that it's time 331 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: to begin to wind out. More from my conversation with 332 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: Eben after the break. So you talked about the devices, right, 333 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 1: and I think it's become even harder because a lot 334 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: of us use our devices as like an alarm clock 335 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: and you know, that kind of thing. But I'd love 336 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts about like how the devices have 337 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: impacted us. You know, you already mentioned the blue light, 338 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: but also your thoughts about like televisions in the bedroom. 339 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: I I am not a fan bedroom. I am not 340 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: a fan of televisions in the bedroom, especially if you 341 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: have a streaming service, because they will just automatically go 342 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: to the next episode and then the next thing, it's 343 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: been five hours of your prime show and you're like, 344 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, why am I still awake? Right, So, 345 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan of TV in the bedroom. Except 346 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: you have the most self control possible, then sure, and 347 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: you know you're gonna just shut it down by your bedtime. 348 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: But that being said, though, for some people when they 349 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: cannot sleep at night, I do advise them to just 350 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: watch like the most boring TV show ever, because that 351 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: is not stimulating to them at all and that will 352 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: help their minds shut down. Or for some people they 353 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: say that they can't fall asleep without the flickering light 354 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: of the TV. So if you're one of those people, 355 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: sure do that, but just make sure that you have 356 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: the TV on low so that you're not hearing that 357 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: blurring s out all night long. But I'm not a 358 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: fan of TV's in the bed. The bedroom is for sleep, rest, 359 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: and sex. That's it, nothing else. So this as the 360 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: blue light. Are there other ways that, like our phones 361 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: and our computers are maybe impacting our sleep. Yes, so 362 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: a lot of us have a dependency on our devices. 363 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: It's now like a third limb or fifth limb at 364 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: this point. We just wake up in the morning and 365 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: the first thing we do is we reach our phones, 366 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: reach for our phones, or we reach for our tablets. 367 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: So what I often advise my clients is not to 368 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: put your phone on the nightstand. So I know that 369 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: for most of us our phones are alarmed, I'd say 370 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: put it across the room. So what that does is 371 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: that forces you to actually get out of the bed 372 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: and then go out there to reach it. So that's 373 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: what I always say about the phones. But the phones 374 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: just create this dependency. And so what I would say 375 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: with that is to go into your phone settings and 376 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: create some type of parameters so that you're not staring 377 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: at the phone. And another thing that's also helpful is 378 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: to go in there and to check your screen time 379 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: because when you see how many when you see how 380 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: many hours and I and I speak for myself, when 381 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: I see how many hours, and I'm like, what what 382 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: are you doing? So that creates checks and balances, right, 383 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: And for some clients, I would say to even do 384 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: a social media fast because if you're finding that you're 385 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: just on there constantly, I say delete social media for 386 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: a week and see how you feel and see how 387 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: it impactious sleep, because it's the idea of did they 388 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: like my picture, did they like my picture? Did they 389 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: comment on the picture? What are they doing, what are 390 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: they doing, where they're doing, And you're just thinking about 391 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: that constantly, and that almost creates some anxiety for some people, 392 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: just waiting and watching and watching to see how many 393 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: people like me, how many people followed me, and all 394 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: of that stuff. So it's just that dependency that instead 395 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: of resting, your wondering, that fear of missing out continues 396 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: to have and like, what's going on in social media? 397 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: I can't I can't shut down down because I just 398 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: got to know who liked the picture? But that's a 399 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: big thing that I see. M mmmmmm. I think a 400 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: lot of times when people struggle with sleep at night, 401 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: you will hear them talking about, like taking naps during 402 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: the day. Is it possible for you to catch up 403 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: on the sleep that you missed at night by taking 404 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: naps during the day. And if we are a napper, 405 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 1: what kind of parameter should we have around naps? Okay, So, unfortunately, 406 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: once you've missed out on sleep, you've missed there is 407 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: no catching up. There is no catching up. Unfortunately. However, though, 408 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: when you've missed out on sleep after a while, after 409 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: a few days, your body will then create this really 410 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: hard drive for sleep. So let's say you win three 411 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: solid nights with only two hours of sleep. By about 412 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: the fourth or fit night, you find that suddenly you 413 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: slept eight hours straight because your body is it has 414 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: this drive to self protect and actually fall asleep. So 415 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: that's what I tell people is don't worry about about 416 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: the fortnight. You will fall asleep. Now, naps are fine 417 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: as long as you're not napping for more than forty 418 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: five minutes to an hour at a time and not 419 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: too close to bedtime. So if your bedtime is ten PM, 420 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: for example, don't take that nap at seven because you'll 421 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: be too awake and alert by ten pm. Now, with naps, 422 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: I say, don't make that a routine for yourself, because 423 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: for some people, when they take too many naps during 424 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: the week, by nighttime, they're just not tired enough. So 425 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: you want to wear yourself out enough so that by 426 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: your bedtime you are visibly exhausted, you're yawning, you're blinking, 427 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: you can't pay attention to conversation. But naps are fine 428 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: as long as they're not for longer than forty five 429 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: minutes to an hour and not too close to bedtime. 430 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: That's not so great. Okay, okay, perfect, So nap time, 431 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: we can keep that in our schedules. Yes, yes, yes, 432 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: set an alarm. Okay, alarm right, because that I was 433 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: just like trying to take a nap and wake up 434 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: and it's two hours later, So the alarm part it 435 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: sounds like it's helpful. So being yea, you've talked about 436 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: how our difficulties sleeping sometimes comes from a place of 437 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: anxiety or maybe we're depressed, and I know, you know, 438 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: setting up the routines is an important part of getting 439 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: good sleep. But sometimes anxiety and depression make it so 440 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: that you don't have right, like the motivation to do 441 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: these routines. And so we don't want people to like 442 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: feel like they're failing, right like they get an if 443 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: in their sleep hygiene. So what kinds of things might 444 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: be helpful? You know, people are struggling with those concerns. 445 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: So the first thing that I tell clients is that 446 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: this is going to be a process, and when you're 447 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: creating new routines, it is going to be difficult for you. Right, 448 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: there's no past, there's no fail, you're not being graded, 449 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: you're not being judged. So I actually create the routine 450 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: with them like I would actually run through the day 451 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: with them, and then we just picked the tiniest little 452 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: change that they can make. And I don't ask them 453 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: to change it every single day because I know, if 454 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: you don't have motivate asian, how are you going to 455 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: do this every single day? And we just pick one 456 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: day a week. So let's pick one day a week 457 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: where you can just get out of the bed for 458 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: five minutes and then you can just make your way 459 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: back in. So that way they get to see that 460 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: they can do it. So it's definitely something that I 461 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: prepare them for and it is important. The one thing 462 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: that I didn't mention is when you're doing the CBT 463 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: for insomnia, if there is that anxiety and the depression, 464 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: it is important that that is being treated as well. 465 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: So working on the two things at the same time, 466 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: because you can't really treat one without the other. So 467 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: helping them to just realize that, you know, if you 468 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: can just do this one time this week, that is success. 469 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: And with the praise. I'm always big with the praise, 470 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: and you know, with time, they begin to see that 471 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: they actually are mastering these habits. I want to go 472 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: back to some of your comments around like social media 473 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: and thinking about people who work in digital spaces, right, 474 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: So thinking about journalists and other content creators who really 475 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: are required to be online most of the day. I 476 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: wonder if you have thoughts about how they protect sleep 477 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: when they maybe are required to be online, maybe more 478 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: than most of us. So if that is part of 479 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: your work, then you know it is what it is, 480 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: and that is why having that strict bedtime and making 481 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: sure that when you're not supposed to be working, you're 482 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: off social media, right, So have that strict bedtime and 483 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: have that wine down time thirty minutes to an hour 484 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: before bedtime so that your mind can kind of calm 485 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: down from the activity and the hustle and bustle of 486 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 1: the day. And during your wine down time, do not 487 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: touch the phone. M Thank you. That's helpful. You know 488 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: something else I've been thinking about even and I wonder 489 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: if this has come up in your practice, just this 490 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: idea of like grind and hustle culture, right, and how 491 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: that has really impacted I think a lot of people's 492 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: relationship with sleep. I wonder if you have thoughts or 493 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: if this is something that you've had to addres us 494 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: with clients in your practice. Yes, I am a fan 495 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: of hustle culture. I am not a fan of hustle 496 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: culture at all. Our bodies need to rest our, bodies 497 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: need to sleep, and we do work a lot around 498 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: that guilt that comes with sleeping and the guilt that 499 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: comes with rest, especially for people who are you know, 500 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: entrepreneurial running their own businesses like I need to be 501 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: going and going and going and going and teaching them 502 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: the value of rest and working around where they got 503 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: the idea of what hustle is and where they got 504 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: the idea of risk being bad and kind of like 505 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: doing some CBT around that as well. But hustle culture 506 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: really definitely does contribute to insomnia because I hear this 507 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: idea of like I only sleep three hours a day, yeah, 508 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's not a good thing your body, right, 509 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: So we work around those pieces and teaching them really 510 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: to listen to their bodies. If you're tired, you should 511 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: probably sleep because your mood will be better in the 512 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: morning and you'll be much more creative too. Mm hmmm. Yeah. 513 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: And it seems like an extension of that is really 514 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: kind of viewing like sleep as a reward, like if 515 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: I do this last two things am I to do list, 516 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: then I can go to bed. Right, So there's some 517 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: CBT kinds of things that can help with like breaking 518 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: that kind of an idea as well. Yes, we talk 519 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: about what sleep is for in reality, what is sleep for. 520 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: Sleep is really just to redriven at your body. Sleep 521 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: is like air. Sleep is like food. Your body needs food, 522 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: Like you cannot go without food and survive. You cannot 523 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: go without sleep and survive. And we just do some 524 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: affirmations around that my body needs sleep. I'm a valued 525 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: person and my body needs sleep, and sleep is not 526 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: I don't love the idea of sleep as a reward. 527 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: Like sleep, it's just the thing we should be doing 528 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: because our bodies needed, you know, because I love myself, 529 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: I sleep. So we do a lot of affirmations around 530 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: that as well, and you know, with time, eventually hopefully 531 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: they do learn to just value sleep for just for 532 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: what it is. More from my conversation with Ebenna after 533 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: the break, so I love to talk a little bit 534 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: of Bana about how our sleep has changed throughout the pandemic. 535 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: Lots of people have been kind of studying our sleep. 536 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: The American Academy of Sleep Medicine found that twenty percent 537 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: of Americans said they had trouble sleeping because of the pandemic. 538 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: And then they repeated the survey ten months later in March, 539 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: and sleep problems had only gotten worse. So roughly sixty 540 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: of people said they struggle with pandemic related insomnia. So 541 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: I wonder if that has come up in your practice 542 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: and maybe just things that you have observed about our 543 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: sleep during the pandemic. Oh yeah, So a lot of 544 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: people transition from working outside of the home to working 545 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: from their bedrooms, and the one rule that I have 546 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: for my client is get out of your bedroom. And 547 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: so then became the struggle of but now my bedroom 548 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: is my workspace. What do I do? So if you 549 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: find that your bedroom is your workspace, create an actual 550 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: workspace that's off of the bed. So you can't change 551 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: that the bedroom is the workspace, but just carve out 552 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: a little you know, nook if you can, if you 553 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: do have the space, and let that be your actual workspace. 554 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: And also really stick with those guidelines of no napping 555 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: all day long. And when you're off of work, leave 556 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: your bedroom if you can, and just go to the kitchen, 557 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: or go to the living room, or go wherever. If 558 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: you live in a studio apartment, again it is what 559 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: it is, but just walk away from that work niche 560 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: That way your brain can separate the difference between work 561 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: and home basically. But what I've noticed is that because 562 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: of the high anxiety of the pandemic, many people are 563 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: worried about their health, and people are worried about income, 564 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: and there's so many things going on and families are 565 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: on top of each other. So a lot of it 566 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: was the anxiety about the pandemic, and that big transition 567 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: from we were able to just move around freely to 568 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: being a little bit more restricted in our movement. So 569 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the anxiety brought on really really hard insomnia, 570 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: and a lot of people who were really good about 571 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: sleep hygiene, all of that just felled by the wayside. 572 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: And even something as simple as transitioning from work closed 573 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: to sleep close because we were in our pajama We 574 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: were in our pajamas, so there was no mental transition 575 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: because you know, in the non pandemic world, you know, 576 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: we would work outside of the home, a lot of us, 577 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: and then in the evening or whenever it is, we're 578 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: off our shifts, we drive back home or walk back home, 579 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: and then we transition our minds into the bedroom. But 580 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: when they're blurred lines, everything just becomes very scattered. But 581 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: if you can just continue to maintain that bedtime and 582 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: continue to maintain the good sleep hygiene, continue to create 583 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: a RESTful sleep environment, than your sleep will not be 584 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: impacted too much by the pandemic. Got it, Okay? So 585 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: something else that I have noticed, there's been more commentary around. 586 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: I had not heard this term before the pandemic is 587 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: so I want to know if you have so this 588 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: term revenge bed time procrastination. Have you heard of it? 589 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: So you had you heard of that before the pandemic? Yes, yes, 590 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: that before, but well yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, 591 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: there's a name for this thing that I have been doing. 592 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: And I definitely noticed it more in myself, you know, 593 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: since the pandemic. Can you see a little bit about 594 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: what revenge bed time procrastination is? So it's that idea 595 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: of It's almost like when a child throws the tantrum. No, 596 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: I will not go to bed. I'm gonna stay up, 597 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: but I'm going to watch my show because I'm an adult. Right, 598 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: So we know we should be going to bed because 599 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: we have a busy day tomorrow, but we choose to 600 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: just do all of the fun things because maybe our 601 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: days were just fact and we feel like we haven't 602 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: had enough fun in the day. Although it feels great 603 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: to do that, but then remind yourself about how you 604 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: will feel in the morning when you're not getting enough sleep. Now, 605 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: I know a lot of these parameters just sounds super strict, right, 606 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: because people are like, well, I'm an adult, I should 607 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: be able to go to bed whenever I want. Yes, 608 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: you should, so you can give yourself one or two 609 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: cheat days. Give yourself one or two cheat days where 610 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, on Tuesday and on Thursday, 611 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to bed whenever I want. But 612 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,479 Speaker 1: in all the other days I will follow my strict 613 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: bedtime routine because I often say that our bodies are 614 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: like machines, and they like predictability, and they like structure, 615 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: and they just like the same old, same old, boring lifestyle. 616 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: It's boring to have a bedtime, and it's not huge. 617 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to say I have a bedtime. But give 618 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: yourself one or two cheat days to stay up till 619 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: whenever you want. But the other five days of the week, 620 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: you got to be really good about your sleeps so 621 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: that your body isn't confused, because the body often will 622 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: get confused. M hmmm. You know, I can't believe I 623 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: didn't ask you this question, But how much sleep should 624 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: we be getting? Like how much on average and an 625 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: adult beginning? So the golden number is actually seven hours. However, however, 626 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: I know I'm always like, I'm a woman of science, 627 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: and then sometimes I would say those seven to nine hours, 628 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: because most people do not feel refreshed after seven hours 629 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: of sleep. So I think this should be on a 630 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: case by case individual basis. If you tend to get 631 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: seven hours of sleep and you wake up and you 632 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: feel just great, then great, continue with your seven hours. 633 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: But if you feel like seven hours aren't enough, then 634 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: go up to eight. If eight isn't enough, then go 635 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: up to nine. Some people even need closer to ten. 636 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: Whatever works for your body. Mm hmmmm. So I know 637 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: e being that you are not um a physician, you 638 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: do not prescribe any medication, but I would just love 639 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts because I'm sure you have to 640 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: come in maybe using things like platonin or over the 641 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: counter sleep aids. Can you talk a little bit about 642 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: like when maybe people should consider those or why maybe 643 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: they should stay away from that, and when maybe they 644 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,280 Speaker 1: would want to talk with the psychiatrist or their primary 645 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: care physician about like a sleepaide that is prescribed. Okay, Personally, 646 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: I am not a fan of sleep aids because I 647 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: believe that our bodies are wired to sleep, and if 648 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: we do all of the right things, our bodies will 649 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: naturally just heal and be able to sleep. However, though, 650 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: if your doctor has ruled out all the physical things 651 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: and if we've tried all of the holistic things and 652 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: the cbt s and the dbt s and the relaxations 653 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: and all the sleep hygiene and it's still not working, 654 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: then I would say, you know, go to your physician 655 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: and definitely get a prescription. However, though, a word about 656 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: those sleeping pills is that they don't actually cure insomnia, 657 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: because in my mind, it here means you're not gonna 658 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: need to sleep aid anymore. Your body wouldn't be doing 659 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: what it's supposed to be doing, and then it will 660 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: just go away. And for a lot of people it 661 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: creates dependency, and there's a lot of side effects and 662 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: the headaches and feeling like a zombie and grogginess and 663 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: poor concentration forgetfulness. So a lot of people just have 664 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: really bad side effects, even from melotonin, which really surprises 665 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: me because melatonin is over the counter, but a lot 666 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: of people just have, you know, bad side effects from it. 667 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: But if you've tried all of the things and nothing 668 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: is working, then I'd much rather you, of course take 669 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: a prescription and get the sleep that you deserve than 670 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: just suffer through. Mm hmmm. That's an important note. So 671 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: you've already talked about a couple of things, having sheets 672 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: that are not scratchy, and you know those kinds of things. 673 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: Maybe smells that are comforting to you and induce sleep. 674 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: Are there other things that you have suggested as the 675 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: clients or that clients have said, oh this really helped me, 676 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: that we've I want to consider adding to our sleep hygiene. 677 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 1: So a lot of clients really focus on their thoughts 678 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: around sleep and their fears around sleep because for a 679 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,360 Speaker 1: lot of clients, they feel like their bodies have betrayed them. 680 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: So a lot of my work is helping them understand 681 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: that your body is your friend. And I think that 682 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: has been the biggest light bulb for most of my 683 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 1: clients is my body is actually trying to help me. 684 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: I said, yes, your body wants to sleep, your body 685 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: craves sleep right and letting them know that you are 686 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: your own sleep expert, and that is the most important thing, 687 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: is realizing listen to your body. If your doctor puts 688 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: you on a pill and it's not working for you, 689 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: let your doctor no, it's not working. If somebody is 690 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: telling you should only be sleeping eight hours, but you 691 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: feel like nine hours is more like it, and sleep 692 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: for nine hours. I know I talk about naps, but 693 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: if you're napping every single day and it's not impacting 694 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: you at night, then keep napping every single day. You know, 695 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: if you're sleeping six hours and it seems to work 696 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: for you, then it's fine. So listen to your body. 697 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: That is the biggest thing is I say, I'm going 698 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: to hear to guide you. I don't know your body 699 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: as well as you know your body. Right, if you 700 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: take melatonin every single night and it seems to work, well, 701 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: you don't get headaches, you're not groggy, it feels good. 702 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: Do what works for you. So know your body. Listen 703 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,720 Speaker 1: to your body and focus on those thoughts about sleep 704 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: and that fear about sleep. A lot of it is 705 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: really you know, the mental the I cannot sleep, I'm 706 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: not good at sleeping. My body is betraying me. My 707 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,879 Speaker 1: body will never sleep, my body will never shut down, 708 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: and trying to combat those thoughts with my body does 709 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: know how to sleep, and it's going to sleep again, 710 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: because again, those negative thoughts trigger stress, and our bodies 711 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: have a hard time shutting down when they're under stress. 712 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: So you know, something that just came to mind is 713 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: you know, if you are sleeping with someone right, like 714 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: maybe a partner or other kids. If you're having sleep problems, 715 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: then is likely that their sleep is also being invetive. 716 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: It's I wonder if there are things that you can 717 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: suggest about, like how we might help a loved one 718 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: who might be struggling with sleep issues. Are there things 719 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: we can do to help? Oh? Yes, Oh absolutely so. 720 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: If you're sharing a bed with someone, let them know 721 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: that you're struggling, and let them know that you're trying 722 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: to create this new structure. Because for a lot of clients, 723 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 1: they'll say, my partners in the bed and they have 724 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: YouTube on and it's loud, or my partners in the 725 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: bed and they're just real sweaty and all that, or 726 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: it's just really hot in here and I'm uncomfortable. So 727 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: starting to have those conversations around what you need for sleep, 728 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: like these sheets are not working for me anymore? Can 729 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: we try something else? Or you coming into the room 730 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: in and out at two am and three am and 731 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,399 Speaker 1: odd hours isn't working for me anymore. Can we meet 732 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: in the middle. I need quiet time from this time 733 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: to this time. Is that something that you can do? 734 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: Or can you put headphones on when you're listening to YouTube, 735 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: or can you make sure that the TV in the 736 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: bedroom is off and you watch a on your phone 737 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: or something. So having those conversations around what you need 738 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: and helping them understand the emotional impact of insomnia, because 739 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: if you have never struggled with insomnia, it's really hard 740 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: to understand the emotional and physical toll that it takes. 741 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: So just opening those lines of conversation so that they 742 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: can cater to you and your needs. Thank you for that. 743 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: So are there other resources that you typically share with 744 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: clients or things that are kind of go to us 745 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: for you to help people kind of learn some of 746 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: this stuff. Yes, yes, yes, YouTube is a big one. 747 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: There are like a million relaxation videos on there. There 748 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: are million body scans. I'm a fan of deep breathing 749 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: and body scans and relaxation. Some of my clients love 750 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: a s MR slicely just go on YouTube and just 751 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: type it a s MR and just pick the one 752 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: that you like. Go on YouTube and go to guided meditation, 753 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: go on YouTube and look up yoga. So they are 754 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,919 Speaker 1: finding resources that works well for them. And usually most 755 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: of my clients will just pick the one and they 756 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: do that every single nine. I'm like, if it works 757 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: for you, keep doing it. I think that is super important. 758 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: So YouTube. I also love the calm app. That's a 759 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: big one, and I love Headspace as well. But I'm 760 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: a big fan of YouTube because it's free. You don't 761 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: have to subscribe to anything, you don't have to pay anything. 762 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: It's right there at your fingertips. Perfect. We'll be sure 763 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: to include those in the show notes. So tell us 764 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: where we can find you. What is your website as 765 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: well as any social media handles you'd like to share. 766 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 1: So my website is the Zennia Practice dot com and 767 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: I'm on Facebook and Instagram at the Zenia Practice as well. 768 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: In Zenia z I N N I A. And no, 769 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: my name is not Zennia because people call me Zennia 770 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: all the time. So yeah, that's how you can find me. Perfect. Well, 771 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: we really appreciate you sharing all this helpful information to 772 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 1: help us get a little bit better at sleep being. 773 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: I thank you. It was really great to be here 774 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: with you. I'm so glad that was able to share 775 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: her expertise with us today. To learn more about her 776 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: and her work, visit the show notes that Therapy for 777 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash session two to five, and 778 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: don't forget to text two of your girls and tell 779 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: them to check out the episode as well. If you're 780 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: looking for a therapist in your area, be sure to 781 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls 782 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: dot com slash directory. And if you want to continue 783 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: digging into this topic or just be in community with 784 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: other sisters, come on over and join us in the 785 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet design 786 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,880 Speaker 1: just for black women. You can join us at community 787 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,960 Speaker 1: dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Thank y'all so 788 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: much for joining me again this week. I look forward 789 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: to continue in this conversation with you all real soon. 790 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: Take it care