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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie Missing,

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Speaker 1: day twelve. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. We are

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Speaker 1: an hour of desperation.

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Speaker 2: And we need job.

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Speaker 3: What happened?

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Speaker 1: Was this really a kidnapping? Totally terrifying situation.

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Speaker 3: You don't know what is real what is fake At

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Speaker 3: this point, this.

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Speaker 2: Criminal did mess up somewhere and they will be taught.

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Speaker 1: As we go to air. We have learned that a tent,

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Speaker 1: a forensics evidentiary tint, has been put up outside Nancy

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Speaker 1: Guthrie's home. Let's take a look at this. This was

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Speaker 1: first reported by Matt Finn FNC A tent going up

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Speaker 1: outside the front door of Nancy Guthrie's home. The first

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Speaker 1: comment was someone opining that a body had been found.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that is the case, although I understand

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Speaker 1: why the viewer said that. Again, that's from Matt Finn

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Speaker 1: FNC joining me an all star panelt tomic sense of

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Speaker 1: what we are learning right now. Straight out to Brian Fitzgibbons.

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Speaker 1: You and I have been on plenty of crime scenes.

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Speaker 1: Why a tent at this juncture? Outside Nancy Guthrie's front porch.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what's unique about this crime scene is you've got

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Speaker 4: not only your standard national media attention or not, I

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Speaker 4: shouldn't say standard, You've got an a credible amount of

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Speaker 4: national media attention, YouTubers, members of the public out there.

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Speaker 4: This is very likely done to protect whatever those agents

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Speaker 4: are doing in there. So the equipment they're bringing in

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Speaker 4: is and being analyzed, the people aren't being photographed as

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Speaker 4: they're working, and that speculation isn't being generated from whatever's happening.

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Speaker 1: But who cares about speculation? Brian? That whatever is speculated

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter to the FBI. Typically a tent like that

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Speaker 1: is put up when evidence is being recovered sensitive evidence.

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Speaker 1: Agree or disagree or Fitzgibbons. When the evidence, as I said,

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Speaker 1: was so sensitive you you don't want it. How can

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Speaker 1: I say polluted or destroyed in any way?

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Speaker 4: I would agree, and I would say that this is

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Speaker 4: done more for concealment and moreover for the suspect to

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Speaker 4: be aware of exactly where they're looking. So you know,

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Speaker 4: this is protecting the integrity of what they're doing.

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Speaker 5: What about it, Scott Iiker, So there's some good equipment

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Speaker 5: that we can use sent into that little four yer

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Speaker 5: area and it'll laser measure that whole area, so it'll

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Speaker 5: give us like a model of how tall the arches,

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Speaker 5: all the bricks where they're at. So it'd be a

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Speaker 5: very detailed picture using lasers to get that documented. Also,

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Speaker 5: I mean, have we ever seen anybody in there looking

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Speaker 5: for hares? I mean, this guy's stood there for a

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Speaker 5: while working with the door, bringing in shrubbery. Did he

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Speaker 5: shed some hairs, did he shed some DNA? They might

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Speaker 5: be just you know, meticulously looking for anything that's still

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Speaker 5: in that front porch area.

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Speaker 1: Iiker, could you explain the laser equipment you are describing

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Speaker 1: that would take specific measurements.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it's a device, you said, in the middle of

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Speaker 5: a room and it takes laser measurements all around to

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Speaker 5: give you exactly the model of that room. We've used

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Speaker 5: it in numerous different cases, even in the theater shooting

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Speaker 5: in Aurora, Colorado.

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Speaker 1: You were measuring with your hands when you said you

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Speaker 1: put the device in the middle of a room and

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Speaker 1: it takes measurements all around, and you were making a

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Speaker 1: spiral gesticulation. What does that mean.

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Speaker 5: Well, the laser has to go all the kind of

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Speaker 5: rotates around in measuring all the different parts of the room,

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Speaker 5: so you give you a full measurement of how far

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Speaker 5: this wide it is, how deep it is, how tall

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Speaker 5: it is. We need measurements on that arch also, right,

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Speaker 5: One of those things is going to help us give

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Speaker 5: a height to this gentleman that's walking to the door, right,

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Speaker 5: because we now can say, oh, when he stood up,

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Speaker 5: he reached this brick in this archway, so he's that tall.

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Speaker 5: So there's a lot of information we can get from

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Speaker 5: these type videos.

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Speaker 1: So why would they need the tent to do that

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Speaker 1: to block off the arch to get the interior dimensions

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Speaker 1: of the room of the porch.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct, and prevent from that laser going further.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. How does the laser work.

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Speaker 5: It takes those measurements bouncing it off the wall, making

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Speaker 5: the measurements of how far that each room is and

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Speaker 5: how far why it.

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Speaker 2: Is, how tall it is.

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Speaker 1: Does it need darkness?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to.

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Speaker 5: Have darkness, but I think that maybe that tent would.

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Speaker 5: We don't want the laser to shoot out to the street, right,

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Speaker 5: We're just trying to get the dimensions of that room.

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Speaker 3: Nancy.

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Speaker 6: The tent was taken down after a couple of hours. However,

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Speaker 6: we got a good hint as to what was taking

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Speaker 6: place that we couldn't actually see. When one of the

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Speaker 6: investigators was leaving the scene. He was carrying a forensic

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Speaker 6: height board. This is a tool used to determine the

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Speaker 6: height of a suspect. When you don't actually have the

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Speaker 6: suspect in front of you, you just have marking areas

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Speaker 6: around where that person had been. So the forensic high

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Speaker 6: board giving us a clue as to what was taking

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Speaker 6: place while they had the tent up earlier today and

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Speaker 6: again Nancy it has been taken down.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, now we've heard from Iker, Scott Iiker, we've

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Speaker 1: heard from Brian Fitzgibbons. Eric Fattis, you were mentioning earlier

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Speaker 1: about how the scene was released too soon and various

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Speaker 1: people could go up and take photos of Nancy's blood.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to circle this back to the tent. That's

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Speaker 1: a problem if there ever is a trial regarding chain

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Speaker 1: of custody.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 7: I mean, in order to enter evidence at a trial,

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Speaker 7: there has to be a sound chain of custody. There

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Speaker 7: has to be proof that what you're giving to the

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Speaker 7: jury is authentic, that it hasn't been contaminated, that it

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Speaker 7: hasn't been tampered with, and that is always a significant

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Speaker 7: issue with there is seen containment problems like in this case.

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Speaker 7: And if they're doing this now, why now and not

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Speaker 7: twelve days ago? This would seem to be something that

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Speaker 7: would prime scene specialists would do on the first or

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Speaker 7: possibly second day.

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Speaker 1: Fattus, You're absolutely correct, and that would be a great

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Speaker 1: question for Nanos the sheriff, because twelve days ago, the

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Speaker 1: FBI had not been invited in right, they were not

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Speaker 1: given jurisdiction, So all of these things were just thrown

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Speaker 1: out the window. Nothing happened, no video, no measurements of

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Speaker 1: the area. We didn't need measurements of the area because

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Speaker 1: we didn't have the video of the guy. And it

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Speaker 1: just builds and builds and builds. So you're right about that,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz. What about the fact that you heard

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Speaker 1: that's Gibbon say. He thinks the tent is largely for secretiveness,

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Speaker 1: to keep what's happening a secret. I wonder also how

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Speaker 1: it affects the family when they see evidence being carted out,

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Speaker 1: when they realize what's going on. He also mentioned he

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Speaker 1: and Iker both that you don't want to tip the

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Speaker 1: purp off about every single thing that's happening.

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Speaker 8: And all of those are excellent points. But the family

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Speaker 8: is the first group of people that I thought of

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Speaker 8: when we found out that a tent was going up,

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Speaker 8: because we associate that with finding remains of a person,

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Speaker 8: and so I can only imagine for them already being

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Speaker 8: in this emotional limbo that they're in and having to

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Speaker 8: wait and see, just like the rest of us in

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Speaker 8: many ways, and how hard this must be for them.

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Speaker 1: Oh, when you see a tent like that going up

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Speaker 1: around your mom's home, it's just like the first comment was, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I pray to God in heaven they're not bringing out

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Speaker 1: a body, because we're used to seeing that go up

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere where you've found a body.

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Speaker 1: We've seen it over and over and over. Another development.

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Speaker 1: Dave Mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, I want

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Speaker 1: you to take a look at some video that we

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Speaker 1: found of this guy in the area in the early

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Speaker 1: morning hours, and this is from a neighbor's security. Can

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Speaker 1: let's see the video, please, Dave Matt, what do we

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Speaker 1: know about this?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 6: Nancy we know very little. But look, you can see

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Speaker 6: the man's head clearly. You can see what he's doing.

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Speaker 6: It appears that he's dealing with trash and he's got

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Speaker 6: another backpack.

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Speaker 1: Then why isn't he putting it in the trash can?

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Speaker 3: Well, he's reaching over.

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Speaker 6: It seems to me somebody's handing him something or he's

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Speaker 6: reaching over far enough to get another bag. And now

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Speaker 6: here we go past the past the dumpsterree he's walking

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Speaker 6: back towards wherever he and this was taken a couple

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Speaker 6: of miles away from the Guthrie home at about the

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Speaker 6: same time.

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, Nancy, I don't know what.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what's going on North Tucson, you know,

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Speaker 6: in the middle of the night, but it seems odd

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Speaker 6: that we would have multiple people.

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Speaker 1: That's a backpack. Wait a minute, that's a backpack. At

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Speaker 1: first I thought it was a trash bag. It looks

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Speaker 1: more like a second backpack.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 6: Actually you see the strap hanging down there. Now I

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Speaker 6: didn't notice that either. You can hear the sound of

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Speaker 6: cans in that bag though, you hear something and it

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Speaker 6: has been submitted to the FBI. This video was turned

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Speaker 6: over to them right away. Before it was posted for

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Speaker 6: all of us to see.

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Speaker 3: But again you know where he goes, yeah, trying to.

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Speaker 1: See it is a second backpack, yep. And he's not

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Speaker 1: getting in the vehicle.

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Speaker 3: No, And.

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Speaker 1: Is he doing wait watch his Dave. He hangs it

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Speaker 1: over the side, he reaches over. Something's happening on the

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Speaker 1: other side of that wall.

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Speaker 6: There's somebody else over there, Okay, because he's getting something

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Speaker 6: from somebody or some I mean, why not if he's

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Speaker 6: he's not reaching far enough over to getting something from

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Speaker 6: the ground. You see, he's only reaching what three feet

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Speaker 6: down is all.

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Speaker 3: He can get to.

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Speaker 1: Is he trying to get in behind that gate? Trying

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Speaker 1: to reach around to find the latch and get in

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Speaker 1: And he's not going to the car. So who is

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Speaker 1: he and why is he there? And about what time

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Speaker 1: of the day or night did this take place?

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Speaker 6: Dave mac We're at one point fifty three am and

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Speaker 6: this was caught on a ring camera, the ring app

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Speaker 6: and that's why we're getting just that one angle. But again,

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Speaker 6: you're talking at one fifty three in the morning, February first,

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Speaker 6: so this is taking place at the same time. It

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Speaker 6: takes you know, six minutes difference between the one forty

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Speaker 6: seven on Nancy Guthrie's front porch. And here we go,

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Speaker 6: not far from her house, a guy walking around with

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Speaker 6: backpacks at the same time within minutes. Again, this just

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Speaker 6: seems beyond strange. You've got a guy with two backpacks.

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Speaker 6: He's handing it over the fence. He's grabbing something else.

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Speaker 3: He saw it.

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Speaker 6: He's got back back in his left arm. He's reaching

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Speaker 6: with his right arm and now he comes back up.

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Speaker 6: He's holding the left back up and reaching with his

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Speaker 6: right He's resting that left bag on that brick wall there.

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Speaker 1: It looks to me that Jackie's right. He looks like

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Speaker 1: he's trying to get in that gate. Guys, this is

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Speaker 1: posted on Ring Neighbor app. It's an app. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people have them in neighborhoods and everybody in the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood can look at it Ring Neighbor app. We're not

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Speaker 1: saying this guy is the purp. The reason it caught

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Speaker 1: our attention is in it's post stood by I Amy

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Speaker 1: Lee on x and it's from the Ring Neighbor app.

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Speaker 1: And the reason Dave, that you and I are so

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Speaker 1: interested in it is it's around two am in the

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Speaker 1: morning of the same night Nancy Guthrie is kidnapped. Starting

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Speaker 1: around one forty seven am two am, there is a

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Speaker 1: spike in her heart monitor, her pacemaker spikes, and in

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes or so, she's gone. This is just a

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Speaker 1: few miles from Nancy's home. Again, we're not saying that

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Speaker 1: this is the purp. I'm saying this was posted on

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Speaker 1: the neighbor the Ring Neighbor app a few miles from

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Speaker 1: Nancy's home the night she disappears. Within minutes of her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Who is this guy? What is he doing? Does that

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Speaker 1: gate lead to a back does it lead to a

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Speaker 1: back road to Nancy Guthrie's house. This has been sent

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Speaker 1: to the FBI, and tonight we are calling on all

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Speaker 1: neighbors everyone. Look at your ring apps, look at your

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Speaker 1: door cams. This is how the case is going to

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Speaker 1: be cracked wide open by someone seeing something, a girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: a wife, a friend noticing something unusual. It's going old

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Speaker 1: school right now in the search for Nancy Guthrie. Also,

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Speaker 1: in addition to that tent going up and the discovery

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Speaker 1: of that video on the Ring Neighbor app, Savannah has

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Speaker 1: just released a heartbreaking, a poignant video. Let's watch she

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Speaker 1: accompanies this with music, and there you see Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 1: with her little girls in her youth. That's Savannah and

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Speaker 1: her sister Annie. There's this stial including brother Cameron. This

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Speaker 1: is outside, we believe, the very porch where she was

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Speaker 1: led out of the home, leaving behind blood drops. I

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Speaker 1: believe I know why Savannah released this number one. Her

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Speaker 1: heart is breaking breaking and she's going through all of

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Speaker 1: these videos and photos of her mom, praying desperately. Her

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Speaker 1: mom is still alive and we brought home soon. Pits Gibbons,

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Speaker 1: I think there's another reason she released it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this is this is an incredibly emotional

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Speaker 4: and humanizing video. You know this is going to go

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Speaker 4: like wildfire across the country. This is going to keep folks,

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Speaker 4: as you were talking about earlier in this show, keep

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Speaker 4: people in spy to persevere in this case, what about it?

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Speaker 2: I ker, I agree.

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Speaker 5: And you're also sending a message to the potential kidnappers

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Speaker 5: that this person has family, has kids, is a loved one.

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Speaker 5: You want to humanize this person, not just not being

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Speaker 5: just a victim that you don't care about. Now you're

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Speaker 5: showing she's a mother and has a family. Hopefully that

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Speaker 5: I'll preserve her and make sure that she stays alive.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, this is a desperate hour. I believe

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Speaker 1: Savannah is sending this speaking directly to the kidnapper. I agree, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: She is definitely trying to appeal to whatever scintilla of

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Speaker 8: empathy that the kidnapper may have. But if not them,

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Speaker 8: then somebody close to them who recognizes them, who knows

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Speaker 8: it's them, This may appeal to them, and they might

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Speaker 8: go to the police, hopefully and tell what they know.

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Speaker 1: You know, you said something really important just in Doctor

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Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz to Eric Fattis. Doctor Sherry pointed out not

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Speaker 1: just to them, but someone that knows them, maybe a

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Speaker 1: mom that knows their son, their husband, their son in

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Speaker 1: law has Nancy Guthrie, and only a mom would really

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Speaker 1: understand this video. The bond between a child and their mother.

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Speaker 1: The last thing you want to do is separate a

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Speaker 1: mother from their child. Eric, I think that's how the

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Speaker 1: case may crack. Someone a girlfriend, a wife, a mom

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Speaker 1: knowing their son, their husband, their ex has Nancy.

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Speaker 7: Someone knows something here that this was not done in

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Speaker 7: a way where only the kidnapper is aware of this.

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Speaker 7: I am relatively certain that somewhat around them, a friend,

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Speaker 7: a family member, an acquaintance, a coworker, somebody knows something.

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Speaker 1: And these videos.

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Speaker 7: Helped to sort of galvanize the community and also speak

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Speaker 7: to the emotional resonance within those people, hopefully so that

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Speaker 7: they would come forward and tell what they know.

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Speaker 1: Late in the evening Eastern time, we learn the discovery

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Speaker 1: of a glove. That's the first thing we learn. It

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Speaker 1: looks amazingly similar to the gloves worn by the perp

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Speaker 1: on Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Look at this guy. See

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Speaker 1: those that. Then we learn not just one glove, but

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Speaker 1: two gloves found found by the side of the road.

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Speaker 1: Now you may think debris. People throw everything out of

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Speaker 1: the cars, everything ends up on the side of the road.

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Speaker 1: But what is significant about the location of these gloves

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Speaker 1: less than a mile and a half from Nancy guthrie home.

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Speaker 1: The crime scene yesterday we saw and let's see the

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Speaker 1: footage of it please. We saw LA law enforcement. It

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Speaker 1: was the FBI out literally beating the bushes in multiple locations,

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Speaker 1: all on road sides. We saw them in Campbell, we

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Speaker 1: saw them in Estrata, out combing the area beside roadways

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Speaker 1: and then wow, what a coincidence. That's what our friends

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Speaker 1: at Fox needs. By the way, what a coincidence. They're

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Speaker 1: looking in multiple locations by the roadway and they find

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Speaker 1: the gloves by the roadway. This as the question arises,

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Speaker 1: CAST Cellular Analysis Survey team with the FBI, they were

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Speaker 1: the ones. I'm telling you we haven't heard it from Cash,

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Speaker 1: but tell we haven't heard it yet. But mark my words,

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Speaker 1: they were the ones that unearthed that porch video. It

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Speaker 1: had to be them, and I'll explain with you, along

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Speaker 1: with a founding member from the CAST team joining us,

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Speaker 1: how they did it. But my question tonight is is

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Speaker 1: their audio? My little ring door cam has audio? Bet

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Speaker 1: this did too? And what about the other cameras in

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Speaker 1: the home and around the home? Is there more to come?

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Speaker 1: Are they working feverishly at this moment to get more

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Speaker 1: evidence and lead us to the identity of the kidnapper?

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Speaker 1: And god willing Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out

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Speaker 1: to Dave mac Crime Stories investigative reporter, Go.

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Speaker 6: Dave, you know, Nancy, yesterday we were talking about this

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Speaker 6: incredible search that's going on and how many agents are

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Speaker 6: in the field. We're talking hundreds. We're out searching yesterday

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Speaker 6: and a mile and a half, I mean a mile

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Speaker 6: and a half from Nancy Guthrie's home, on the side

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Speaker 6: of the road, they find a black glove. You saw

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Speaker 6: the video from the porch, and it looks like the

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Speaker 6: pictures were seeing of the glove and Nancy. It's shocking

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Speaker 6: that they told us where they were looking and they

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Speaker 6: found it. So they're operating on tips that we're not

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Speaker 6: aware of. They've been given information or have unearthed their

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Speaker 6: own information to know where to look, and specifically, I

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Speaker 6: mean you're talking about finding a needle in a stack

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Speaker 6: of needles. Here they find a glove just off the road,

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Speaker 6: a mile and a half from Nancy Guthries's home.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the possibilities. It just takes one,

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Speaker 1: just one one hair, one little speck. I've touched a DNA.

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Speaker 1: Think about Brian Coburger, no motive, no confession, didn't find

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Speaker 1: the weapon, no connection between him and the victims. But

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Speaker 1: we got DNA. We got d in a Deoxaribo niclay acid.

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Speaker 1: A tiny amount of DNA on the snap, the little

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Speaker 1: button snap on the hilt of a knife, a knife

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Speaker 1: hilt just that much and no, Coburger did not have

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Speaker 1: a record, so you couldn't compare it to DNA already

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Speaker 1: in the system. Another hurdle. Genetic genealogy experts went all

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Speaker 1: the way up his family tree. They staked out his home,

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Speaker 1: They got his d DNA and that information gave them

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Speaker 1: enough to get a search warrant to use to compare

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Speaker 1: his DNA and it was I wrote it down last night,

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Speaker 1: one in five point three seven octillion match to Brian Coberger.

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Speaker 1: It just takes one. Let's talk about the gloves. Now,

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Speaker 1: first we heard there was one glove. Now we are

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Speaker 1: hearing there are two gloves. Dave Mack, which one is it?

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Speaker 6: Two gloves found but not together in separate areas. The

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Speaker 6: one glove was found right off road, that's the one

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Speaker 6: we've been told about about a mile and a half

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Speaker 6: from Nancy Guthrie's home. A second glove found away from

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Speaker 6: where the first glove was found. They're not indicating exactly

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Speaker 6: where that one was found, but we've been told two gloves.

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Speaker 1: Joining me Brian Fitzgibbons. He is the director of Operations USP,

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Speaker 1: a nationwide security He leads a team of investigators to

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Speaker 1: go around the world finding missing people, Fitzgibbons. Don't you

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Speaker 1: know that the purp was hot, not necessarily hot temperature wise,

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Speaker 1: is in the evening, it may very well have been

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Speaker 1: cool outdoors, but from all of those clothes, and it

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Speaker 1: looks like he was wearing layers of clothes. And I

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Speaker 1: got a theory on that, the stress of breaking in

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Speaker 1: her home and getting an eighty four year old woman out.

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Speaker 1: He's got on layers of clothes, including a ski mask

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Speaker 1: or a ballaclava, gloves, the works. He gets in the car,

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Speaker 1: he's got her in the car, and he is sweating bullets, Fitzgibbons.

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Speaker 1: And can't you just see him rolling down the window,

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Speaker 1: stripping off a glove, throwing it, stripping off a glove,

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Speaker 1: throwing it. Hence the separation at where they're located, keeping

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Speaker 1: one hand on the steering wheel. Just play it out,

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Speaker 1: unless of course, someone was driving with him. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: hypothesize with me for sure.

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Speaker 4: And this is a common theme in a number of

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Speaker 4: violent crimes like this, that perpetrators will discard items of clothing,

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Speaker 4: pieces of equipment that they used, weapons along the roadways

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Speaker 4: around the near the crime scene or a small distance away.

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Speaker 4: We actually had a murder case here locally. That was

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Speaker 4: solved when detectives found a polo shirt five miles from

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Speaker 4: the murder scene that was discarded out the window by

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Speaker 4: the suspect himself. They had DNA and blood from the

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Speaker 4: victim on it. And this was five miles down the road,

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Speaker 4: just on the side of the road, found by a

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Speaker 4: dog walker. So you know, this is very common that

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Speaker 4: they would want to dump those items, especially as he's

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Speaker 4: driving in those moments after committing this crime. He's as

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Speaker 4: he's moving along the roadways, that's some of the most

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Speaker 4: vulnerable time for him because he's wondering has police been called?

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Speaker 4: Are they searching for his vehicle in those moments right

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Speaker 4: after the crime.

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Speaker 1: You know, last night we were having quite the discussion

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Speaker 1: regarding what could be if these are the right gloves,

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Speaker 1: what can be attained from the gloves? There's a lot.

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Speaker 1: Number one. Does anybody remember the name Tott mom Casey Anthony,

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Speaker 1: if you will recall, in the prosecution of Casey Anthony

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Speaker 1: and the murder of her daughter, Kelly Anthony, she was acquitted.

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Speaker 1: We learned well, many people learned for the first time.

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Speaker 1: I learned it way back when in the Atlanta Child

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Speaker 1: murders that plastic such as plastic trash bags and plastic

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Speaker 1: gloves each have a particular molecular makeup, a molecular signature

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Speaker 1: that that company uses to create their product. Unlike any

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Speaker 1: other company, trash bags and plastic gloves can be traced

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Speaker 1: to a batch and a lot down to where they

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Speaker 1: were sent and where they were sold. You ever heard

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Speaker 1: of anything like that? Joining me? Scott Iiker, forensics expert,

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Speaker 1: founding member of the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey Team. Not

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Speaker 1: only that twenty two years former police officer home in

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Speaker 1: the homicide unit with the Norfolk, Virginia PD. Scott, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. What do you make of that?

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Speaker 1: The fact that they FBI, not local law enforcement, They

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Speaker 1: don't have the facilities, they don't have the wherewithal to

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Speaker 1: do that, nor should they. Really, it can be done

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Speaker 1: and it's not that hard.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree with that.

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Speaker 5: We've It kind of brings me back to the Atlanta

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Speaker 5: bombings because I was working that with the FBI with

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Speaker 5: Eric Rudolph back then, and the bomb components were all

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Speaker 5: individual and we were able to kind of go back

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Speaker 5: and each component we could figure out where was that made,

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Speaker 5: Where was where was that sold? So those are the

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Speaker 5: tracks that the FBIS can be doing with these gloves.

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Speaker 5: What's the composition obviously the DNA and here in the

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Speaker 5: gloves themselves, and then trying to figure out where they

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Speaker 5: were purchased, how long ago were they purchased, trying to

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Speaker 5: get video from where these items were purchased. It is

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Speaker 5: a big deal to find these gloves and hope, hopefully

435
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 5: they are related to discut theries, kidnapping or missing.

436
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: You just gave me a great thought, thank you. You

437
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: know how tight it is when you rip off latex

438
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: or plastic gloves that has to take away, that has

439
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: to rip off some hair on a guy's hand, some DNA.

440
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: It's not just you putting them on, which is probably

441
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,479
Speaker 1: enough to get touched DNA because when you look at

442
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: the gloves he's wearing, they look tight. I wonder if

443
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: he was wearing gloves under the gloves, which would not

444
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: be helpful at all, but still the ripping them off

445
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: aspect from the wrist could very well Scott Iiker rip

446
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: off hair or definitely touch DNA.

447
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: I totally agree with that.

448
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 5: That's and have you ever tried to put two sets

449
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 5: of gloves on in the same hand. I've done that before,

450
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 5: but it's very hard because they are sticky, so I

451
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 5: doubt he's wearing two sets of gloves. But it sure

452
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 5: does look like the gloves that are that were found

453
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 5: that are black in color matched the video that we

454
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 5: see of him coming up to that front door.

455
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: This could be the break in the case.

456
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 5: I'm so excited and I'm hoping they could get some

457
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 5: information off of this.

458
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: You know, you said something else, Skottiker, and I'm going

459
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: to follow up with you about what else could be obtained,

460
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: such as fingerprints. But doctor Sherry Schwartz is joining us,

461
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: and I want to ask you a question about perseverance.

462
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz is a forensic psychologist at Pantherlitigation dot com.

463
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: She is the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law

464
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: and Psychology Intersect Perfect night before last, Doctor Sherry, we

465
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: were all so bullied.

466
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: So.

467
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: Happy that while Nancy was still missing, we had something.

468
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: There had been a detainee pulled over and was being questioned.

469
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: The hostage team was a few blocks away, waiting to

470
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: go in and try to save Nancy. We all checked

471
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: the news throughout the night and woke up in the

472
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: morning to find out it was a catch and release.

473
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: He was not involved, and we were back to square one.

474
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: I felt so defeated. I felt like somebody kicked me

475
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: in the stomach, and then I was overwhelmed with guilt.

476
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: How dare I feel defeated? When Savannah and her family

477
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: woke up to the same news, it's like day after

478
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: day they're living in a nightmare. They're away from their home.

479
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Savannah lives with her family, her children, and husband in

480
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: New York. She's out there, she's away from home. Her

481
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: mother is missing, she could have been killed. It's a

482
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: race against the clock. Evildoers, trolls are coming out of

483
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: the woodwork trying to get money and torture them. It's

484
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: a night mare for her. So how dare we feel

485
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: like we got a gut punch? How what can you

486
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: tell us to help us keep going? Sherry? Because you know,

487
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz, you never know. The FBI certainly does

488
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: not need us. But what if one thing that you say,

489
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: or if Fitzgibbons says, or I Kerr or mac or

490
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: Eric fattis one thing leads to one thing leads to

491
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: one thing leads to a solution. Give us some encouragement

492
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake.

493
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 8: Well, the best encouragement that I have is that in

494
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 8: a case like this, of course we want resolution, we

495
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 8: want to know where Nancy Guthrie is and bring her

496
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 8: home safely. But the good news is, and we can

497
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 8: look on the positive side, that if this isn't the person,

498
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 8: and this person has no idea and isn't a suspect anymore,

499
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 8: then they keep looking, and that means there's still opportunity,

500
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 8: right because if it is the person, and whatever the

501
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 8: outcome is, if it doesn't bring misgus three home safely,

502
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 8: then it's over and we're all grieving. But in this

503
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 8: particular case, it just means that the investigation continues and

504
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 8: everybody needs to stay vigilant because, like you said, Nancy,

505
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 8: you just never know. You never know who might hear something,

506
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 8: who might see something. Putting this video out there of

507
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 8: this suspect is this intruder is excellent because somebody might

508
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 8: see this video and recognize this person from the way

509
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 8: they walk, the way their body looks. So it's really

510
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 8: about staying vigilant, staying engaged, and helping to bring Nancy

511
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 8: Guthrie home.

512
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: Joining me high profile defense attorney Eric Fattus, the founder

513
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: of the law Offices of Eric Fattus, former felony prosecutor.

514
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: You can find him at Ericfattesslaw dot com. Eric, thank

515
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: you for being with us. How do you do it

516
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 1: when you're in the middle of a trial and you

517
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: get a big blow, the judge rules against you, You

518
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: think the jury is a rule against you, your client

519
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: is horrible. How do you keep going? Because I'm very

520
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: curious because yesterday morning, when I got up five point thirty,

521
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: looked at the news again and saw it was real.

522
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: The guy was not involved. Back to square one. I

523
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: had to drag myself. If I didn't have to get

524
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: breakfast ready for the twins and my mom, I think

525
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: I would have just, I guess, go back to bed.

526
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I had to drag myself out. That

527
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: was a blow, and then I immediately felt horrible that

528
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: I felt defeated when Savannah is out there just bone tired, exhausted,

529
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: trying to keeut one foot in front of the other.

530
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: How do you do it when you get a setback,

531
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: and I.

532
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: Know you do, sir.

533
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 7: I mean, what a rollercoaster of emotions for this family,

534
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 7: certainly for Fancy Guthrie. You know, when that happens, you've

535
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 7: got to try to remain resilient. I think having a

536
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 7: good support system around you is helpful, having a sort

537
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 7: of faith in the integrity of the system and the

538
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 7: objective of the system to seek justice. You know, it

539
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 7: appears that law enforcement is continuing to follow up on leads,

540
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 7: being diligent and thorough, although there have been some missteps,

541
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 7: and you have to hope that that there are genuine

542
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 7: efforts and people who truly care about the outcome of

543
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,959
Speaker 7: this case and about seeking justice and sort of draw

544
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 7: upon that energy, draw upon what they're bringing to the table,

545
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 7: and sort of collaboratively trying to reach the best outcome

546
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 7: available under the circumstance.

547
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: I want to go back over Dave mac Well, Eric Fattis,

548
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: you're right by the way to day make I want

549
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: to go back to the discovery of the gloves again.

550
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: It was no coincidence that we see law enforcement side

551
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: by side all up and down the highways, looking by

552
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: the road, not just the roads in Nancy Guthries's neighborhood,

553
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: but all around Estrada. They were in Campbell, they were

554
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: in Tucson, they were in various areas, and I knew

555
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: they were all looking by roadsides. I knew that meant something,

556
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: but I didn't know what it meant. And then, of

557
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: course there is no coincidence in criminal law, Dave mac

558
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: gloves are found on a roadside, and that leads me

559
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: to think possibly someone had called in a tip of

560
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: having seen something thrown out of a vehicle. Where all

561
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: were they searching? And Dave, weren't they searching behind sister

562
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: Annie Guthrie's home and again at Nancy Guthrie's home?

563
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 6: You know, Nancy, It's important to point out that when

564
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 6: we think about a search with law enforcement, you know,

565
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 6: we tend to think of you know, maybe fifteen or twenty.

566
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 6: We're talking hundreds here. This was a massive undertaking of

567
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 6: law enforcement, FBI, local deputies. We're talking real searching in

568
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 6: these areas just off the side of the road now,

569
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 6: just era a mile mile and a half away from

570
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 6: Nancy Guthrie's house, you know, Nancy, just off the road

571
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 6: in this area, it's rugged terrain. We're talking arroyos that

572
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 6: go four or five feet deep, a lot of brush

573
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 6: and rocks and packed die. I mean, there's a lot

574
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 6: going on even that close to the road. So to

575
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 6: have this many law enforcement personnel out seeking, they had

576
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 6: to have information that put them on this road because

577
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 6: look at the results. But going back to Anny Guthrie,

578
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 6: you know, this was something that is not getting talked

579
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 6: about a lot. But law enforcement went to her neighborhood,

580
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 6: Nancy to Andy Guthrie's neighborhood and went door to door there.

581
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 6: They looked in the brush, They looked in little backhouses,

582
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 6: you know where you stored lawnmowers and things like that.

583
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: They searched for something or.

584
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 6: Someone all throughout that neighborhood, door to door. Now they

585
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 6: did the same thing and Nancy Guthries too. They didn't

586
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 6: just fan out into the brush at her house and

587
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 6: went out from there. They were looking, like I said,

588
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 6: they found The first glove they found was a mile

589
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 6: and a half from the home, not very far. And

590
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 6: we're talking directly across from where Nancy's house is facing

591
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 6: look at her front door and goes straight out that

592
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 6: way into the brush. That's where this was found. The

593
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 6: other glove was found nearby, not far away. As you mentioned.

594
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 6: Like if you're taking one off and throwing it, taking

595
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 6: the other off and throwing it that's about the.

596
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 3: Area where these gloves were found.

597
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 6: So again going back to this, we're not talking a

598
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 6: couple dozen law enforcement officials spending the day walking. We're

599
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 6: talking hundreds in a very structured search of a very

600
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 6: specific area and finding what they're looking for a mile

601
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 6: and a half from the scene of the crime. I

602
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 6: think they had more than just a tip. I think

603
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 6: we just don't know what they have yet.

604
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: Carlo Palazuelos, the individual that bore a general resemblance to

605
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: the guy on the front porch, is actually a delivery

606
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: person who delivers not just to Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood, but

607
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: likely to Nancy Guthrie's home. He was detained and questioned.

608
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: This is him speaking. He has nothing to do with

609
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, and this statement dashed our hopes that Nancy

610
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: was this close to being found.

611
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 7: They helped me against will remember rise until two hours later?

612
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: Okay, long my reason?

613
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: Do you know who Nancy Grie when.

614
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: Kidnapping? What were you thinking?

615
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 8: What about anything?

616
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 1: Follow the front porch video emerged? What can we learn

617
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 1: from this video?

618
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: How did this person get in? How did they exit?

619
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there had to be two people.

620
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: I think this is going to be the tip of

621
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: the iceberg. We're going to see more and we're going

622
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 3: to have a better idea as to what's happened.

623
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: We'll be back to the glove in a moment regarding

624
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 1: the possibility of getting d n A from the gloves

625
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: and her fingerprints. But I want you to look at

626
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: a conundrum that we observed after a careful inspection of

627
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: the photos of the guy on the porch, as we

628
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: call him. In one clip, in one frame grab, he

629
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: is wearing a backpack and another he's not. Let's see

630
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: those now. This tells me a lot. This tells me

631
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: that very likely somewhere there was a car. We don't

632
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: see the backpack laying around. Where is it and where

633
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: did he come from? Okay, Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter,

634
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: way in.

635
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 3: Nancy, that's been the big question.

636
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 6: One thing I've noticed, as you see this guy walking

637
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 6: up towards the walkway, right, he's kind of got this

638
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 6: odd gait, kind of loping as he comes into frame,

639
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 6: and then once he knows he's in camera frame distance,

640
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 6: he stops, ducks his head and starts with a different

641
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 6: kind of a shuffle, and I think see we see

642
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 6: him coming from somewhere and you see him loping. And

643
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 6: that's why I said, this guy's been here before.

644
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 3: He knows what's going on.

645
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 6: In knows is where the camera is the angled because

646
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 6: he comes at an angle and immediately drops his head.

647
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 6: So was his vehicle park down the street? Was it parked,

648
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 6: you know, a street over? You know, it's interesting that

649
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 6: we've had some sightings of vehicles in the neighborhood. Maybe

650
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 6: there was a rehearsal parking in a certain area and walking.

651
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 6: I mean, we just don't know because we're not getting

652
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 6: that info from law enforcement at this point. But he

653
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 6: had to come from somewhere. He wasn't walking around at

654
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 6: one forty five in the morning just out for a

655
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 6: stroll to you know, get to this location.

656
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 3: He had to be nearby.

657
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 6: And then Nancy, they still have to get they I

658
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 6: think they're talking to people too. We only have one

659
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 6: on video, But I don't see how you're going to

660
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 6: get an eighty four year old, fairly immobile woman out

661
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 6: on your own. This guy doesn't look like he could

662
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 6: handle her by himself and maintain control. Her cane is

663
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 6: left in the house. You have to her out of

664
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 6: the home by either walking with her or carrying her,

665
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 6: and that's going to take two people.

666
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: So where is the vehicle?

667
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 6: Was the other person waiting in the vehicle until this

668
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 6: guy was able to disable the cameras?

669
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 3: We don't know, but he had to be somewhere.

670
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, that eagle eye Jackie here

671
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: on the set. Notice, let's see that double photo again. Please,

672
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: Not only is he missing a backpack? Where's the gun? Okay?

673
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: Iker former FBI? What about it? Here at my radio

674
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: producer Jackie had to school the FBI cellular Annaly's a

675
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: survey team founding member? What about that founding member?

676
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 5: She's exactly right. I did notice that in the photos

677
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 5: comparison when you showed him up. I'm like, where's the

678
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 5: gun and where's the backpack? So where is this later

679
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 5: after he's.

680
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 1: Put him up? I ker, yes, ma'am, you noticed it,

681
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: but you just wanted to keep a special secret and

682
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: not say anything about it.

683
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 2: I can keep it, believe it.

684
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: So what do you make of it? The backpack's not

685
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: there and the gun's not there?

686
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 5: Right, So is this a later time frame? And then

687
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 5: that did he's already has been in the house. Now

688
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 5: he's moving things around, maybe walking her to a bar

689
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 5: or something like that, and doesn't need the gun in

690
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 5: the back.

691
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: He's not walking her anywhere. He's on his way walking

692
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: back in. Look at the picture. Where's the gun? Where's

693
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: the backpack?

694
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 4: What?

695
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: Let's analyze.

696
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: You put it?

697
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: What else can do you put it?

698
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 2: You put it somewhere? Right?

699
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 5: Did he leave it in the house while he's moving

700
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 5: things around, or did he take it to the car and.

701
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: Now he's keeping that? Hey, iker, look at the photo

702
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: on the left and look at the photo on the right.

703
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: When I was looking at them, at the photo on

704
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,479
Speaker 1: the right, I thought, wait, is that the backpack over

705
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: there to the right under that palmetto plant? It's not

706
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: that is the pot a pot for a plant? Because

707
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: if you look at the picture on the left, you

708
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 1: see two of them. The picture on the left really

709
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: shows me the background a lot better. If there was

710
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: a vehicle, I'm sure he parked it away from the home.

711
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, that really doesn't make sense. If

712
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: he's leading her to the vehicle, he would park as

713
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: close as possible.

714
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 5: Right, agreed, agreed, Unless he brings the car around. If

715
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 5: there's more than one person. We've got a lot of

716
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 5: different scenarios going on here.

717
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: Another thing, photo on the left. Keep the photo on

718
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: the left when he drove away. If he went in

719
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: that direction, that cam may have caught it up. Of course,

720
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: then he took the cam down, which leads me to

721
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: another question. Iker. If he removed the cam, would it

722
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: have kept recording? Is that possible?

723
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 5: It's possible if it has its own power source. I

724
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 5: have ness cameras and they don't have their own power source.

725
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 2: They don't have a battery in them.

726
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 5: They have to be plugged in, and as we saw

727
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 5: from them removing that camera on the roof, there was

728
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 5: a solar panel that gave it the power it needed.

729
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 5: Other cameras are hardwired, all minor hardwired, so they have

730
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 5: to have a power source. It's usually just the camera

731
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 5: and not any batteries in it. So once you take

732
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 5: it away, I think it's not going to record anything anymore.

733
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: M Okay. If it has batteries and you take it away,

734
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: would it keep recording?

735
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 5: Yes, it would for a small amount of time because

736
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 5: it's going to lose its Wi Fi connection once it

737
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 5: gets away from the house.

738
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: Okay, here's another question to you regarding the camera. Scott

739
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: Ker Guys, just so you know, like her is with

740
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 1: Precision Cellular Analysis handling criminal defense, civil cases and more

741
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: at PCA experts dot com and remember founding member of

742
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. They are the ones

743
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: responsible forgetting this video. And let me just put it

744
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 1: out there right now. Eric fattis joining me. Veteran trial lawyer. Eric.

745
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: At the beginning, the sheriff, who by the way, buried

746
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 1: the lead here, stated late last night that more detainments

747
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: are likely to occur quickly. He said that nanos. He also, however,

748
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: said that at the beginning, oh shucks, she doesn't she

749
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: doesn't have a subscription, no video. We sent it off

750
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: to blah blah blah and they couldn't pull anything up. Well,

751
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: blah blah. Law did a crap job because the Cellular

752
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 1: Analysis Survey team with the FBI got it after they

753
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: mined the vast, vast millions and millions of data points

754
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: from Google. That's a Nest cam. Look at the top right,

755
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: fattest of the photos. They all say Nest. Nancy Guthrie

756
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: had the Nest equipment in her home. Google owns Nest,

757
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: it's all Google. So they either got a court order

758
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: or a subpoena or a subpoena ducas tacum, or a

759
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: plain old search warrant is my guess, or Google may

760
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: have given permission. That said, they weighed through millions of

761
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: data points, and out of all that a CEE a

762
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: sea of information they find Nancy Guthrie's porch cam and

763
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: managed to get this. My point is at the beginning,

764
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: Fattest Nano says, darny, darn, darn, no video, what about it?

765
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: Can I trust what he's saying? Now that more detainments

766
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: are about to happen.

767
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 7: Sir Nancy, I thought it was peculiar than the video

768
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 7: took so long to be obtained and get public. Usually

769
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 7: in these investigations they have it within the same day.

770
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 7: You can go to Google, like you said, with a

771
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 7: search warrant, production of records requests and they have to

772
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 7: respond to that. In addition, there were some scene containment

773
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 7: issues and and the STYFF has been criticized for that,

774
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 7: and so there have been some missteps, as I mentioned,

775
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 7: in this investigation, and I'm not sure the public has

776
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 7: full of faith in law enforcement conducting the investigation and

777
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 7: reaching an ultimate outcome and finding a suspect here.

778
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: We also heard from Cash Betail stating as late as

779
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: last night there are persons of interest, so iker I

780
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: took us down the garden path there. But regarding the camera,

781
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 1: Scott doorcam, it's a ring gives me audio. I can

782
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 1: hear what the person is saying, I can hear everything.

783
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: I can hear the dog barking, can hear everything. Is

784
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: there audio that we have yet to hear?

785
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: It's a good possibility.

786
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 5: I have several cameras at my house, but only two

787
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 5: of them provide sound, So it really depends on which

788
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 5: camera that was you at that front door on if

789
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,959
Speaker 5: it had a sound ability, I'm not sure we would

790
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 5: have heard very much of him walking up to that house.

791
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 5: But you never know what was possibility there. And I

792
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 5: did confirm that cast was once. It kind of worked

793
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 5: with Google and obtained this video, and it did take

794
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 5: a while because Google had to do a lot of

795
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 5: searching and had have the right parameters to get this stuff.

796
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 5: So Gus was definitely integral part in that aspect, as

797
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 5: in the stopping of the Gentleman a couple of days

798
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 5: ago or last night, that was later released that there's

799
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 5: one hundred percent possibility that that's cast looking at the

800
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 5: tower dump information and seeing that sub that individual's phone

801
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 5: come into the area, stayed for a little bit, and leave,

802
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 5: And that's exactly what they're looking for in those tower

803
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 5: dumps is phones that are not stationary like neighbor's phones

804
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 5: or Nancy's phones. They're looking for phones that came in

805
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 5: and left around that time that they believed she disappeared.

806
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 5: So there's going to be a lot more of those

807
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 5: little detainments, just trying to figure out who was allowed

808
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 5: to be there or had a reason to be there,

809
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,240
Speaker 5: and then hopefully narrow down to our suspect.

810
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: The following me, Yeah, they're following me Marana County and

811
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 2: Rana was down here. It's like, come on two and two.

812
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: And so then when they when they came up on you,

813
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: what do they.

814
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 3: Say, looking, looking, looking, They just told me, what's your name?

815
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: Gods that's equally in the cop car. Wait two hours

816
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: in this year anything.

817
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: As Savannah herself stated, the hour of desperation. With every

818
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: minute that passes, the hour becomes even more despairing. If

819
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: you know or think you know anything about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance.

820
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: Please call one eight hundred two two five five three

821
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 1: two four toll free eight hundred two two five five

822
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,959
Speaker 1: three two four, or if you wish to remain anonymous,

823
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: dial five two zero eight eight two seven four six

824
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: three repeat five two zero eight eight, two seven four

825
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 1: six three. We remember an American hero, Lieutenant Shirley Lanning,

826
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: Canadian County Sheriff's Oklahoma, killed in the line of duty

827
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: after thirty years serving and protecting, leaving behind her grieving husband.

828
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:03,919
Speaker 1: American herout in it. Shirley Lanning Nancy Grace signing off

829
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,