1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch It on 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: the b n F podcast. So last week on the 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: two and April, U S President Joe Biden invited forty 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: world leaders to a summit to discuss the climate crisis. 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: So on today's show, we've asked BNF's Global Head of 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: Policy Research, Victoria coming to join us alongside Ali Zadi Najafabadi, 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: head of Asia Pacific Research for b n EF. Vicky's 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: with me here in London and Ali isn't soul, so 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: we're trying to bring some different perspectives from different parts 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: of the world. They're going to give us a summary 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: of some of the main things that happened at the 12 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: summit and put it into context during what is looking 13 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: like a big year for dialogue and commitments on climate 14 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: with the UN Climate Change Conference or COPY approaching this 15 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: upcoming November in Glasgow. Among the reiteration of some existing commitments, 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: there were a few new commitments and a few statements 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,959 Speaker 1: that bring us a step closer to understanding what some 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: countries will actually be doing. And remember the five w's, who, what, when, 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: where and why? Those are increasingly well trodden territory when 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: we're talking about climate, but it's really the how that 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: last question that doesn't fit with the five ws that 22 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: is turning out to be the really tricky part. As 23 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: a reminder, b n EF does not provide investment or 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: strategy advice, and you can hear a more complete disclaimer 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: at the end of the show. But now let's talk 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: about the Biden Climate Summit from last week. Vicky Ali, 27 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: thank you for joining today, Thank you for having us, 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. So we're here today to talk 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: about the climate summit that took place at the end 30 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: of last week. So it was a two day summit 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: that the United States facilitated. There's a notable climate summit 32 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: already happening this year, so copy is coming up just 33 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: in November. And I really got me thinking when they 34 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: announced that the summit was going to be taking place, 35 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: what were they hoping to achieve? And what did they achieve? 36 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: Potentially we'll get to that. What were they hoping to 37 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: achieve at this summit that wasn't already going to be 38 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: happening at copp in November. I think we can say 39 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: that there are like were two main aims of the event. 40 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: So the first one is that the US is back 41 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: in Paris, is back in the Paris Agreement. So it 42 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: was a chance for the US to re establish itself 43 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: to say here we are, we are committed to tackling 44 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: climate change, and we're raising our climate ambition. And then 45 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: at the same time so we do indeed have COP 46 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: twenty at the end of this year. One of the 47 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: reasons why it is an important COP is that it's 48 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: the beginning of this cycle that was this kind of 49 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: reporting pledging cycle that was agreed in the Paris Agreement, 50 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: where countries or parties they make their pledges, then there's 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 1: a kind of comparison of all the targets together known 52 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: as the Global stock take, and then on the basis 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: of that assessment, parties are meant to increase their ambition. 54 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: And so this summit was an opportunity for countries to 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: make more ambitious pledges. That was the aim was to 56 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: kind of galvanize efforts towards a tackling climate change. So 57 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: those were the main goals of the summit, but yes, 58 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: it may be a different matter as to whether they 59 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: were actually realized. There's some pre COP energy here and 60 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: trying to get everybody really ready for what will hopefully 61 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: be a year very much focused on these issues. Were 62 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: there any countries noticeably absent from the Biden Climate Summit 63 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: from my perspective, Actually, it was noticeable about how many 64 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: countries did attend. So even countries or leaders that have 65 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: been less than ambitious about tackling climate change or vocal 66 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: about the need to tackle climate change, say Saudi Arabia 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: or Russia or Turkey, they were all there. So we 68 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: had peuty In, Bosonaro, Rdigan, Amblo, Mexico was there. They 69 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily making more ambitious pledges, but there were certainly 70 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: in the room. I think the only country among top 71 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: ten emitters I was missing was Iran, and that's naturally 72 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: expected why it wasn't invited. The only other major economy 73 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: that was not the head of state was not invited 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: was Thailand for the obvious political reasons, but Thailand did 75 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: have representation at the event with having a minister attending. 76 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: So we have a tremendous turnout. Not a ton of 77 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: new commitments, but definitely everybody thinking about the yearhead but 78 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: a few new commitments that were definitely notable, So why 79 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: don't we go through those? Sure? Absolutely so, probably the 80 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: one at the top of that. This would be the 81 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: US is and your emission reduction target for thirty So 82 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: this is as part of its NDC, that's its nationally 83 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,559 Speaker 1: determined Climate plan. So all parties have to put together 84 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: these climate plans, covering them in the next decade or so. 85 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: And they announced their new target, which was a certain 86 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: amount of step in the right direction. We estimated that 87 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: if the US had, say, maintained the same level and 88 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: ambition as its five target, and it just extended it 89 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: out thirty, then the target would have been in a 90 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: thirty something about thirty eight percent reduction below two thousand 91 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: five levels, whereas what they actually proposed was fifty to 92 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: fifty two. So it is a step in the right direction, yes, 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: But then which we may want to talk about later, 94 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: there's a question markus to it's actually achievability. So another 95 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: one that actually put forward a new target was Japan, 96 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: but i'll hand that over Alley, thank you, Vickie. So 97 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: in the case of Japan, the original target was to 98 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: decrease emissions by twenty six percent in twenty thirty relatively 99 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: to the two thousand thirteen basis, And this time around 100 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: a prime minister just in the run up to the summit, 101 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: announced that they would increase the target to fort sent 102 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: emission reduction by twenty relatively to two thousand thirteen. There 103 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: have been a bit of a debate in Japan around 104 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: what to set the new target at the Ministry Environment 105 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: apparently wanted to increase it by reduced emissions by whereas 106 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: the Ministry of the Industry had been arguing for thirty 107 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: nine percent and they were expecting data. Anything beyond that 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: would be to challenging, and it appears that the Prime 109 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: Minister has basically gone with the average of the two 110 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: to keep both sides happy. Well, and then we've got 111 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: one more country. So as we're listening here, you know, 112 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: Ali is representing a pack as head of a research 113 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: for APACK for US. But also you are a Canadian. 114 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: So what is it that the Canadians committed to? Well, actually, 115 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: maybe i'll first let Ricky explain that, and anology very 116 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: happy to comment on the Canadian target. Okay, let's see. Well, 117 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: so Canada, yes, it wasn't a big surprise that it 118 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: announced to hire target because it has historically aligned itself 119 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: with the US. So we Biden having announced its fifty 120 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: target on two thousand five levels. Trudeau announced that Canada 121 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: was increasing its target from reduction on two thousand and 122 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: five levels too. Now, in comparison with say Japan and 123 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: the US, we would say that this was a less 124 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: ambitious move. We've recently published a report that compared the 125 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: G twenty countries NDC targets based on four metrics. So 126 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: it's it's really tricky to compare these targets because countries 127 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,559 Speaker 1: use different deadlines and different baselines. So we use four 128 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: different metrics, say the reduction in absolute volumes, reduction in 129 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: emissions per capita, and we also looked at emission intensity. 130 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: And on this basis, the new Canada target is not 131 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: that bold. In particular, if we compare what emissions would 132 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: be with the target and without the target, we actually 133 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: found that Canada will be able to substantially increases emissions 134 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: and still achieve its twenty thirty target. So on that 135 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: basis it was slightly disappointing. But I understand that Ali 136 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: may have a different view. Well, this is how we 137 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: measure emissions keeps coming up again and again because not 138 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: only is it very much relevant to the targets that 139 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: we're setting in whether or not we can compare Apple 140 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: staffles across countries, but you see it across countries and 141 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: how they're reporting previous podcast. But we've talked about the 142 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: EU taxonomy and how they're trying to standardize this here. 143 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: So this is definitely a challenging space and it does 144 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: depend on how you look at it. So Ali, how 145 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: are you looking at the commitments that Canada made to 146 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: be for all these countries are looking at greenhouse gas 147 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: emissions as a whole. They try to do a very 148 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: good job of accounting for different types of greenhouse gasses 149 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: and the convergent factors that they use are fairly consistent. 150 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: So from that perspective, when they're talking about these emission 151 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: reduction targets, they are talking about the same thing. Where 152 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: I think it's important to recognize is what do they 153 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: need to do? So what where is the emissions is 154 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: coming from and what exactly how do they have to 155 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: do to be able to reduce this. And where US 156 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: is today is very different than where Canada is and 157 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: where Japan is. In the case of Canada, a significant 158 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: portion of the emissions is coming from its oil and 159 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: gas sector. So if you look at regionally, the province 160 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: of Alberta alone accounts for over a third of Canada's emissions, 161 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: and if you ignored Alberta, Canada's emissions are already actually 162 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: declining at a rapid pace. So the challenge that Canada 163 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: is going to have with reducing its emissions aggressively is 164 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: how does it get under controlled emissions associated with oil 165 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: and gas production. Unlike Japan and the US, Canada's power 166 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: sector is already fairly clean. Over eight percent of the 167 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: electricities erated from zero emission sources, dominated by hydro, so 168 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: that opportunity of reducing emissions in the power sector is 169 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: no longer available to Canada because they've already mostly done it. 170 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: In the case of Japan, actually most of the opportunity 171 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: is still in the power sector, So the emission factor 172 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: for the Japan's power generation is still relatively higher compared 173 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: to Europe, US and Canada. So there's a lot of 174 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: work that they could do to be able to get 175 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: emission reduction from there. A different way of looking at 176 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: this is what's the cost of abatement and so how 177 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: much does it cost you to be able to reduce 178 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: that emissions? If you're talking about the power sector, the 179 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: technologies are fairly known, and the cost of abatement and 180 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: the power sector is actually fairly low. In some cases 181 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: it can be even positive. So if you're a country 182 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: like Japan where you have a very high import dependence 183 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: on energy, you can potentially by relying on domestic renewables 184 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: we can actually end up having a positive conomic impact. 185 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: But if you have to actually abate exists think economic 186 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: activity such as oil and gas production, that can be 187 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: very expensive, particularly given that today we still don't have 188 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: a commercial, available, liable carbon capture and storage technology. So 189 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: Ali was impressed Vicky. So I would just say, I'm 190 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: not disagreeing at all with what Ali says. It will 191 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: be tough. We're tough for all three countries to to decarbonize, 192 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: and for different reasons, but purely on the basis of 193 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: level of ambition, I think the Canada's step up was 194 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: slightly lower than say the US in Japan. So I mean, 195 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: if we are looking at achievability, the US target is 196 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: going to be very very challenging to actually achieve. As 197 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: you say, in theory, the power system will be decarbonized 198 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: by five so Buying has announced a separate target for that. 199 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: But then in terms of looking at how to decarbonize 200 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: building heating is very challenge as its industry, and it 201 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: really does lack the policy support both at federal and 202 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: state level for that to happen. Let's talk about that 203 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: for a second. The US's role in this. So they're 204 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: making much bigger commitments to climate during this administration as 205 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: compared to the last administration. So the last administration saw 206 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: the United States pull out of the Paris Climate Agreement, 207 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: and now we have the US back in. How are 208 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: the other countries making commitments or perhaps not making commitments, 209 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: Viewing the US's role in the commitments are making now, 210 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: given that they may very well be reversed in less 211 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: than four years time, it's a fair point. The OS 212 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: was in some ways successful in rebuilding some of its 213 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: credibility with this summit and with the announcements it made, 214 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: but that target hasn't been passed through into legislation paths 215 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: through Congress, and really it won't be able to kind 216 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: of solidify its credibility fully until it's put in place 217 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: the concrete policy measure to achieve those targets and actually 218 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: taken steps towards meeting that target. So I mean one 219 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: of the reasons why it was so simple for Trump 220 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: to exits the paras groute was because it hadn't been 221 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: enshrined in legislation. So it would be interesting to see 222 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: if and what a steps Biden takes to to change that. 223 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: One other area that's notable is the amount of money 224 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: that was committed or maybe not committed to tackling climate 225 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: change in countries outside of the US and specifically some 226 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: developing countries. Can we talk a little bit about how 227 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: much was raised and whether or not that was impressive 228 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: or not impressive. The final amounts is not super clear. 229 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: So so the US did make a pledge to to 230 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: increase more than five billion, but if you want to 231 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: tell you up all the announcements during the summing, it's 232 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: a little bit unclear. There were a couple of bilateral 233 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: new partnerships also announced, for example between US and India 234 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: and US in Japan and the U S and Japan. 235 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: Was interesting because they also said that they would focus 236 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: the on the Indo Pacific region. So it wasn't completely clear. 237 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: If you go back to climate change negotiations, developed economies 238 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: had already made the pledge that by twenty twenty they 239 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: would increase climate finance support to developing economies two hundred 240 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: billion dollars. It doesn't appear that they have met that 241 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: target unless you start counting private investment as well, which 242 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: is something that's was not supposed to be countered towards 243 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: and so this is supposed to be coming from governments 244 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: and multilateral entities. The other issues that there's a bit 245 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: of a mismatch between countries who have been recipients of 246 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: this funding whereas the ones that have asked for the funding. 247 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: So places like India and some parts of Southeast Asia 248 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: have done relatively well, but on the hotter hand, a 249 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: lot of the lower developing economies, for example parts of 250 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: Africa I have not done as much in attracting the 251 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: financing that they had requested. The summit it may have 252 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: been a positive, small step towards that issue, but it 253 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: didn't see into bridge the gap. We did have several 254 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: countries during the summit, starting with the biggest one, China, 255 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: pointing out the fundamental principle of common but differentiated responsibilities 256 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: in climate change negotiation. So this is the whole idea 257 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: that if you look at the challenge of emissions, we 258 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: have to look at who has emitted since the Industrial 259 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: Revolution and since European countries as well as North America 260 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: and Japan, so basically mostly oly City members, they have 261 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: been more responsible for emissions. Historically, they bear the responsibility 262 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: of helping a non annex one countries reduce their emissions 263 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: and they have to sort of carry the load at 264 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: the beginning. This is a tricky one because while yes, 265 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: if you look at commulative emissions, it's through that those 266 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: countries very responsibilities, but if you look at who's emitting 267 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: more these days and who's on a growing trajectory, and 268 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: a lot of these non annex one countries are becoming 269 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: an issue. And this has been a debate for some 270 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: time as to how we go about figuring out who 271 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: needs to do what and when and back and forth. 272 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: Yet so it's this is a bit a bit retro 273 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: in terms of the emissions discussion, but it's back again 274 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: and they are making strides. So actually, well, China didn't 275 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: create a new target that they committed to during this summit. 276 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: What was it that they did outline and make a 277 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: little more transparent positive announcement from Prisoner was omitting to 278 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: achieve coal peak consumption within the fifteen five year planned 279 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: period that refers to. Previously China have talked about that 280 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: the peak would be what he has now alluded to 281 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: is that they will be achieving that earlier than that. 282 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: And we saw an immediate reaction where a lot of 283 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: the coal companies, those that were publicly listed, actually there 284 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: was a real negative reaction to their prices. And there's 285 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: now a lot more talk by state owned entities in 286 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: China around how they can achieve peak coal earlier and 287 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: I try to reduce him aasitions for um whole generator. 288 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: So that was definitely a positive step. We're going to 289 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: take a quick break. Stay with us. Let's talk about 290 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: some of the other interesting things that came from some 291 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: of the statements that were made by other countries that 292 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: have a particularly big role to play in the climate discussion, 293 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: so namely Brazil and Russia. What were their statements at 294 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: this summit. One of the interesting ones was came from 295 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: a Bosnar from Brazil. So he reiterated that the country 296 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: would be willing to reach the next zero emissions and 297 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: he actually brought forward the deadline for that from which 298 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: has been previously mentioned to, but he made it clear 299 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: that that would rest on substantial support from other countries, 300 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: specifically developed countries UM, so where my about half of 301 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: that reaching next zero would be achieved through reducing emissions itself, 302 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: that the other half would be through some kind of 303 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: forestry offset um to make use of its natural resources. 304 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: And this is one of the first times that a 305 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: major economy has announcement at zero target but put it 306 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: up conditional on support from from elsewhere, and as yet 307 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: there have not been any kind of concrete responses from 308 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: developed countries that they would be willing to do that. 309 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 1: The other one may be interesting was Russia. We're President 310 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: Putting actually talked about getting methane emissions under control, which 311 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: was rather surprising given Russia's significant oil and gas operations 312 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: and and unlikely challenges with with controlling methane emissions. Methane 313 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: is a bit tricky because it's actually it's impact on 314 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: warming is much more significant than CEO two, although it 315 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: doesn't last as long as you two in the atmosphere. 316 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of discussions around getting better 317 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: control around methane leaks, and it was quite positive to 318 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: actually see President Putting bring that up and talk about 319 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: in a positive manner around how there should be international 320 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: cooperation on getting that under control. So there's a sense 321 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: here that there is some momentum in these discussions and 322 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: that maybe we will see some really very interesting things 323 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: take place at cop later in this year as we 324 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: look ahead to that. I think one of the things 325 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: that really has stood out to me over the course 326 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: of this past year, with Project light Speed and with 327 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: the advancements that we've made in vaccine technology, is that sciences, 328 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: when they really put their mind and quite a bit 329 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: of money behind advancing something, we make incredible strides. Now 330 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: in the climate space, there is money being committed, there 331 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: are targets and years and momentum, And my question is, 332 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: you know, what does this all mean? What do you 333 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: anticipate in particular for the spaces that then EF covers 334 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: very closely. So let's say, for example, clean energy and transportation, 335 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: you know, what do we expect might happen in the 336 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: nearer term in these areas. As a result of some 337 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: of the announcements at the summit last week, one of 338 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: the kind of less covered results from last week's summit 339 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: was the fact not these kind of emission reduction targets 340 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: made by likes of US and Japan, but the announcements 341 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: made by other countries of these more concrete projects, all 342 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: the kind of partnerships or initiatives for example between US 343 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: and India with regard to clean energy. What I would 344 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: anticipate coming out of the copy is more progress made 345 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: on say these concrete initiatives around for the energy transition, 346 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: moving towards clean power and clean road transport. Those are 347 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: two of the priorities for the UK government which is 348 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: hosting COP and we could see more announcements come out 349 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: centering around initiatives that already exists, for example the powering 350 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: Past whole alliance or the electric vehicle alliances. That is 351 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: one of my kind of expectations from the COPS. But 352 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: the other one is also finance. So while that was 353 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: saying somewhat disappointing outcome of the summit last week, the 354 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: UK government is committed to discussing there's a hundred billion 355 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: a year target when it comes to the Glasgow events 356 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: and maybe making more commitments from developed countries for five 357 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: So we would anticipate more progress being made on that side. 358 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: And Ali, what would you say that perspective is regarding 359 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: the Asia Pacific region specifically EPOCH side. If you look 360 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: at power sector the carbonization, it's still relative to North 361 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: America and Europe, the region is relatively behind, even though 362 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: of course a park which China, it is the largest 363 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: market for deployment of renewables as well as they're manufacturing. 364 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: But still in terms of the emission intensity of power generation, 365 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: the region needs to accelerate. And I think all in 366 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: all of what we heard at the summit, even though 367 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: some of it was not new, it was a good 368 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: sign that this has happened in so hopefully way before 369 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: twenty third we're gonna see emissions from the power sector 370 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: in the region to reach its peak, which would be 371 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: a positive development. When we go beyond these sectors though, 372 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: this is where your vaccine analogy becomes really important. So 373 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: there are areas um such as carbon capture and storage 374 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: or hydrogen in general. When we talk about industry de carbonization, 375 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: these are areas that significant more R and D needs 376 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: to happen, but also significant more regulation needs to come 377 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: into place to signal to investors and companies that at 378 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: some point these sectors will be covered by significant restrictions. 379 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: We are seeing those signals primarily in Europe today, we're 380 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: starting to see those signals elsewhere. So Canada, for example, 381 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: does now have a fairly strange and carbon price in 382 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: mechanism in place, but many other economies, particularly when you 383 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: look at US, China in DA, those signals are still 384 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: not there and this is where it will be interesting 385 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: to see whether the US will follow through with with 386 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: some type of a current pricing mechanisms. China has started 387 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: this older, so they have a carbon trading mechanism operational 388 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: starting from this year, but the prices are not allowed 389 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: right now. There's too much free allowances. Essentially, enterprices are 390 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: not rising, so it will be interesting to see whether 391 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: we see more policy direction that Yeah by twenty thirty, 392 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: for example, we're looking at covering emissions from petrochemicals steal 393 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: and aviation as an example. These are what we need 394 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: to see happened within this decade so that there's enough 395 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: investment going in uh these new new areas for technology 396 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: development as well as gender deployment in the twenty thirties. Okay, 397 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: so let's play the acronym game, since it seems like 398 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: there are a lot of them. We actually wrote a 399 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: research note I believe at one point that was called 400 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: making Sense of the Sustainability alphabet soup or something along 401 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: those lines. So, Vicky, what is an NDC so NDCU 402 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: if you don't know, because if nothing else, the climate 403 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: talks really like acronyms. So NDC is one to remember. 404 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: It means nationally determined contribution. So it's essentially a party's 405 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: plan for how it intends to reduce emissions or promote 406 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: climate adaptation over the next tent fifteen years. There's also 407 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: a longer term version which is called a long term strategy, 408 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: and that goes out to stay and is where some 409 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: countries have put in place net szero emission goals. So 410 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: Ali in relation to Asia Pacific, were there any other 411 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: statements that were made that you found particularly interesting? A 412 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: few other interesting comments from our leaders are the summit 413 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: or one of those where from Indonesia's President of Kobe. 414 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: For the most part, he took a positive tone, but 415 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: but towards the and he did comments that countries should 416 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: not be throwing trade barriers and negatively commenting on other 417 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: countries policies. And this was an indirect reference to EU 418 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: regulations on restrictions of palm oil exports or palm oil 419 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: imports from Sciency Stag into the Europe because there are 420 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: concerns that the palm plantations are essentially causing additional emissions 421 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: because they're usually done by clearing virgin forest um and 422 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: planting in his place palm trees. The other one that 423 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: was interesting was Australia. Probably for me personally it was 424 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: the most entertaining speech, but in terms of substantive commitment 425 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: towards the climate change, it was also probably the one 426 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: that was lacking any substance. Prime Minister Morrison had a 427 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: couple of good lines, saying through technology not taxation, and 428 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: also he finished with the line that I'm probably gonna 429 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: mangle here saying that the future gener rations will judge 430 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: us not by our plans but by our actual actions, 431 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: and he was essentially trying to say that there is 432 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: an Australia is not announcing any additional more ambitious goals 433 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: is because it feels like it would be empty boards 434 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: and it's rather focused on fulfilling its existing goals, which 435 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: by the way, right now they're not on the trajector 436 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: to fulfill and they haven't passed any policy framework to 437 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: actually make sure that they would meet those twenty thirty goals. 438 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: Vicky in regard to North America and Europe. What did 439 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: you find that was some stand out? But other than 440 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: for the countries that we have already discussed well in 441 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: some ways, in terms of Europe that it was the 442 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: least interesting. And that's principally because they have already made 443 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: the kind of their big headline grabbing climate announcements. So 444 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: one thing they could say was that on the day 445 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: before the summit began, the European Commission, Parliament and Council, 446 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: so those are the three big EU institutions, had reached 447 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: an informal agreement on its climate law. And then this 448 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: climate law it includes its emission reduction target, which is 449 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: reduction on levels and the net zero goal. For now, 450 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: how about companies. I my understanding was that there were 451 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: several large, important companies that were also invited to join 452 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: these talks. What was their role to play there? Isn't 453 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: Those companies were there were primarily as a supportive signal 454 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: for the domestic U S audience. So one thing I 455 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: would give them really high marksis that they designed this 456 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: summit very carefully with two audiences in mind. Who won 457 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: the international audience and the other one the domestic audience. Particularly, 458 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: how do they emphasize the jobs as well as the 459 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: security and the national security angle of climate change, so 460 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: that they can overcome Republican position that even if they 461 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: don't get enough Republican support, they can still go ahead 462 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: and read what they want to do and the public 463 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: would be on their side. And I think they generally 464 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: did a good job of trying to do this. So 465 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: there were three new announcements at this summit, and then 466 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: some other interesting things that we've already discussed on the 467 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: show today. My final question to both of you, so 468 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: we're maybe we're going to a betting shop and we're 469 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: going to put our money where our mouth is. You know, 470 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: who are you betting on? And which of the three 471 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: countries so US, Japan, Canada do you think are going 472 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: to meet the targets that they've outlined. I am going 473 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: to say Canada, and that is because it's not as 474 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: ambitious as the other targe the other targets. Yes, it's 475 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: already got a fairly decarbonized power system, but the federal 476 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: government and some of the provincial governments are showing intention 477 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: of actually reducing emissions and putting in place policy measures 478 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: to actually realize the mission targets and that's the most 479 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: important thing that governments now need to do. It's all 480 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: very well coming out with these big announcements of goals 481 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: which kind of indicate the direction of travel, but the 482 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: next and equally important step is to actually implement policy 483 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: measures to spur this change in in real life. I 484 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: actually would think both Canada and Japan will meet their targets. 485 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: For Canada, yeah, yeah, I still disagree with Rickie, that's easy, 486 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,479 Speaker 1: but I agree that they've done more in terms of 487 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: introducing a policy framework, particularly on carbon pricing, which recently 488 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: the federal government one at the Supreme Court as well, 489 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: so it's fairly secure legislation now in place. So I 490 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: think they have a good opportunity to meet their target 491 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: because that policy framework is already in place. And in 492 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: the case of Japan, compared to both Canada and US, 493 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: the central government of Japan is much more powerful, so 494 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: unlike US and Canada, the local governments in Japan don't 495 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: have as much power. Now this could be a good 496 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: thing or a bad thing in this case. Particular challenge 497 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: that both US and Canada have encountered, particularly in the 498 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: case of Canada, where a lot of energy policies at 499 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: the provincial level. If federal government has a specific national plan, 500 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: it can run into challenges of constitutional jurisdiction around whether 501 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: it can implement it or not. In the case of Japan, 502 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: the central government has all that power, and also because 503 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: Japan still has these areas such as the power sector 504 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: where if they really wanted to technology already exists, it's 505 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: more of a motivation too for implementation, they could actually 506 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: do it. In the case of the US, I think 507 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: the challenge is that if you look at where the 508 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: emissions have trended now, transportation is the largest sector. The 509 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: carbonizing that for road vehicles will require introducing new field 510 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: economy standards, as well as potentially ramp revamping and expanding 511 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: the the California ZEV mandate Nationally, these are topics that 512 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: are definitely Republican states will oppose and will try to 513 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: fight the federal government. On the power sector, the challenge 514 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: for the US is that you have to go beyond 515 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: just reliance on natural gas. While renewables have accelerated, If 516 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: the Biden regition really wants to meet its net zero 517 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: power goal, then we're talking about phasing out or limiting 518 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: the role of natural gas in the power sector. Which 519 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: is going to be politically very challenging. UM. That's why 520 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: I think the US target is actually the most challenging 521 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: politically to be met compared to Canada's and the Japanese one. 522 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: Vicky and Ali, thank you very much for joining. I 523 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: think it would be great to have you back in 524 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: the run up and maybe the post cup to see 525 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: where we got to in this next year. Today's episode 526 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: Switched On was edited by Rex Warner The Gray Stoak Media. 527 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberginni app is a service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP 528 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: and its affiliates. This recording does not constitute, nor should 529 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: it be construed as investment advice, investment recommendation, or a 530 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: recommendation as tom investment or other strategy. Bloombergnia should not 531 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: be considered as information sufficient up on which to base 532 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg Finance Lp nor any of 533 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: its affiliates makes any representation or warranty as the accuracy 534 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: of the completeness of the information contained in this recording, 535 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: and any liability as a result of this recording that 536 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: expresses