1 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: for joining me for session three point thirty one of 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into 13 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. The reviews 14 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: for Sisterhood Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot 15 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: stop smiling at the hot girl books on Instagram shared 16 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: finish reading this warm hug of a book last night, 17 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: and while it made me want to hug my sister 18 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: friends so bad, Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on 19 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: how we as black women can use our community and 20 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: friends to aid in our healing process. Thank you so 21 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: much for the beautiful review. Have you grabbed your copy yet? 22 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Get one for yourself and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com. 23 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: As the seasons begin to change, we're taking another good 24 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: look at the sister friends that have carried us this 25 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: far into the year. What better way to celebrate friendship 26 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: than to showcase how Black women of all ages have 27 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: fostered supportive, uplifting and life saving bonds secret that over 28 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: here at Therapy for Black Girls, we believe Sisterhood Heels 29 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: and today's guests are a perfect example of the liberating 30 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: impact our connections have. Joining me for today's conversation are 31 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: community members Karen Hudson and Betty Holt Haskins. This godmother 32 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: and goddaughter duo are representative of an intergenerational friendship with 33 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: an age gap of forty seven years. Together, we chatted 34 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: about their transition from godmother and daughter to best friends, 35 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: what friendship looks and feels like when operating as equals, 36 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: and the multitude of benefits in making friends in every 37 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: age group. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, 38 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag 39 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: TVG in Session or join us over in the Sister Circle. 40 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: To talk more about the episode, you can join us 41 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Well, 42 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: thank you so much, so much for joining me today, 43 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: Carent and Betty. Nice to be here, really excited. 44 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I am too. 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: So you both are godmother and goddaughter, but also have 46 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: a beautiful friendship that has transitioned now into beyond godmother 47 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: and goddaughter, and there is a forty seven year age 48 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: in between you all, So can you share a little 49 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: bit about how your relationship has transitioned from just godmother 50 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: and goddaughter to an actual friendship. 51 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 52 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 4: Absolutely, So I'd say it's been in stages, right, So, 53 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 4: you know, typical godmother goddaughter. And then when I went 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 4: off to college, she's always been my spiritual advisor, but 55 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: I think really kind of strengthening that own personal relationship 56 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 4: with it myself. And we finally kind of went on 57 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 4: a graduation trip at the end of my undergrad and 58 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: we realize that we actually travel really well together, and 59 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 4: we really care for each other and take care of 60 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 4: each other really well, and so it blossomed into this 61 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 4: really beautiful space where we can deepen a friendship and 62 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 4: have conversation way beyond just the normal how are you 63 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 4: doing and what's going on in your life? And so 64 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 4: it was really transformative at least in my and it 65 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 4: was Yeah, it was. 66 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: The same for me. 67 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: As she said, We've always been godmother goddaughter. And I 68 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 3: think from the beginning our relationship had the aspect of 69 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 3: being different because I'm the godparent of several young people, 70 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: but she's the only person that I was actually instilled 71 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: in the church, actually went through the ceremony, actually went 72 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 3: through the classes. Everyone else was like, oh, we'd be 73 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: my child's godmother, Like, yeah, I'm sure, but this one 74 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 3: we went through the church. She's the only one. So 75 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: right away the relationship was very special and. 76 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: It's just grown. 77 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 3: But I think also we always knew that we would 78 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: probably be really good friends because even as a child, 79 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 3: she was in the club that her and I dubbed 80 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: the Homies Club. And because I'm older than her mother, 81 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: I was Homie senior, her mom was Homie She's Homie Junior, 82 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 3: and my mom was Homie emeritus. And so we take 83 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 3: our girlfriend trips and so we knew each other well. 84 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 3: But that graduation trip in Sedona just really sealed the deal. 85 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: It let me know that she is an adult, she. 86 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: Can handle things, and let her know that I was 87 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 3: not that stodgy older woman, that she could. 88 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: Be herself around. 89 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 3: And once we knew that we could be free with 90 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 3: each other, it allows space for the friendship to grow. 91 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: I love that. Was it just the two of you 92 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: on the graduation trip? 93 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: Yes, well, let's just say it was the two of us. 94 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 3: By this time, my friend her mother had transitioned, but 95 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 3: we felt her presence there the entire time, So physically 96 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 3: it was just the two of us, but Homie seemed 97 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 3: to be always there. 98 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So, though the two of you 99 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: are not blood related, can you say a little bit 100 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: about how being a part of the same community has 101 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 1: really impacted your relationship with one another. 102 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: So when you say community, are you talking about physical 103 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 3: location or the people in our circle? 104 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: The people in your circle? 105 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: Well, that's kind of interesting because there really isn't any 106 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 3: other people in our circle. I mean, my friend Ata 107 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: her mom passed when she was a teenager. She was 108 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 3: probably the connector of our circle, and once she passed, 109 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 3: it's been Karena and I. I think that's probably why 110 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 3: we don't have a lot of gossip in our conversation 111 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 3: because we don't know the same people. 112 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: It's really just us. 113 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: We have the extraneous people outside of our togetherness that 114 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: we talk about on a peripheral type of thing, but 115 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: we don't really have a community. Now that they think 116 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: about it, it's really just us. 117 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 4: I agree, we definitely have. We are our own community, 118 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 4: like we have our own language, and that's in a 119 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 4: physical sense and an undershding sense. We introduce each other 120 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 4: to our friends and our family, and also when it 121 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 4: comes to that connection, it's really just the two of us. However, 122 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 4: I will say that connection is contagious because wherever we go, 123 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 4: we end up picking up these people along the way, 124 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 4: and even if it's just for that moment or that 125 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 4: dinner or that time together, they're a part of our community. 126 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 4: They're welcome, we're asking them the same questions, we're having 127 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 4: a great time, and there's these small people that we 128 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 4: just impact along the way. But yeah, I would agree 129 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 4: we are each other's community really. 130 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: And where do you both live? Are you in the 131 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 1: same geographical location? 132 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 4: No, I actually live and work in Raleigh, North Carolina, 133 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: but I was born in is in Baltimore, Marylyn. 134 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: And I'm in Baltimore and that's where I met her 135 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: mother in Baltimore. So no, we're miles apart. We haven't 136 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: actually seen each other for years. 137 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, thank you. 138 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 4: Pre pandemic. 139 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 3: Oh, definitely pre pandemic spent a long time and it 140 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: just seems that the universe is conspiring against us. We 141 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 3: make plans and then they don't happen. So seeing her 142 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 3: face today is quite a thrill. 143 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: Are you usually talking on the phone or texting? 144 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll talk on the phone. Maybe we try to 145 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 4: do at least like once a week or so, but 146 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: definitely like every two weeks, and we'll be on the 147 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 4: phone anywhere from two hours depended on. 148 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: The day, yes, and dependent upon the events and what's 149 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: going on in each of our lives and what we've 150 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: noticed that we want. 151 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 2: To talk about, like. 152 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 3: This particular tree that's a blossoming different differently, or a 153 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: book that someone has read, or a verse that someone 154 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 3: has seen, or something that we've observed, and how does 155 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 3: it impact our lives. So we laugh and think to ourselves, 156 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: we can have our own podcasts because our conversations are 157 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 3: so unique and so varied, and we think interesting. 158 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: We think so, Betty, is there any part of yourself 159 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: that you see inkoin No. 160 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 3: I think that's what makes our friendship so unique. We 161 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: are absolutely different people. We go about our lives in 162 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 3: a different way, but we're able to support one another. 163 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: And I think the fact that we're able to be 164 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: ourselves with one another, not try to fit into any 165 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 3: particular mold. But we are very different. We are very different. 166 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 3: I think the only thing maybe I could say that 167 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: I see we both are adventurous them and our food choices. 168 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: Okay, what's the most adventurous meal you all have had 169 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: or food adventure you've had. 170 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 4: I would have to say our introduction into oysters that, yeah, 171 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 4: neither one of us, and correct me if I'm wrong, 172 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 4: neither one of us really fried raw oysters were into 173 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 4: the idea of it. But we went on a trip 174 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 4: to New Orleans and we went to this little cafe 175 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 4: and the guy was like, you guys need to eat this. 176 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 4: I'm just gonna make this and you're gonna eat it. 177 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 4: And we were like, Okay, this is what we're doing 178 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 4: on this trip. And after that it's been our bonding 179 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 4: thing to the point where we looked into you know 180 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 4: how to get the oysters trucker at home if not 181 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: to do it at home. So that's one of many, 182 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 4: but I think that one is maybe my favorite memory 183 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 4: of our food choices together. 184 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, mine too, And I think that memory also points 185 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: out something else about our experiences, and that is we're 186 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 3: not sure if that cafe actually existed. You hear about 187 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 3: people living these sort. 188 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: Of out of body moments. 189 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: We have a feeling that if we went back there, 190 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: that that cafe and that man would not be there. 191 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 3: It just seemed like an out of body experienced the 192 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 3: whole thing. 193 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: But who knows. 194 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: M I mean, it's New Orleans, so really anything, anything 195 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: can happen. 196 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: Anything can happen. 197 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: So in the submission tape, Betty, you refer to Karin 198 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: as your sideline therapist, and I'm curious to hear from you, Karin, 199 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: how your work as a licensed marriage and family therapist 200 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: associated impacts your relationship with Betty. 201 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 4: That such a good question. I think it's been really 202 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 4: such a great experience because she's been with me through 203 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 4: everything from the journey of At one point, I think 204 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 4: I wanted to get my PhD and do clinical research 205 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 4: and human sexuality. I always knew I wanted to work 206 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 4: with like sexuality and spirituality, and she's actually been the 207 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 4: foster kind of flaming that desire within myself, even when 208 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 4: I wasn't really sure how it was gonna look. She's 209 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 4: always been that person to nurture it and flame it. 210 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 4: And so when I finally kind of stumbled across you know, oh, 211 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 4: maybe I can go this route, get an LMFT, be 212 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 4: a sex therapist that nature. She was there all along 213 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 4: and throughout school. Any concept that I would learn, like 214 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 4: attachment and all these cool concepts, I would have the 215 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 4: phone conversations with her, and we found that it was 216 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 4: really helpful just in her journey of where she's at 217 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 4: and these ideas and concepts in her own healing journey. 218 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: And so it's helped me in a way that obviously 219 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 4: I'm not doing therapy on her, but even just being 220 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 4: able to bring these concepts up that I'm like, man, 221 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 4: this is so cool, this is how I'm flying it 222 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 4: to my life and I didn't even think about it 223 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 4: in this way, and being able to introduce that to 224 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 4: her is helping her on her journey. And so that's 225 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 4: where I think we really fostered a lot of vulnerables 226 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 4: between the two of us, because I began to learn 227 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 4: her as an adult, not as my godmother, and I 228 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 4: began to learn her as this human and this person 229 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 4: with her own experiences and her own hard pieces in 230 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 4: life and her own trauma, even though she's been with 231 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 4: me through mine right and so it really opened my 232 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 4: eyes to being able to be a sounding board for 233 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 4: her and an encouraging person for her along her journey. 234 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 4: So I've been really grateful for it because it's definitely 235 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 4: someone I can kind of bounce ideas off of and share, 236 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 4: and through our conversations the metaphors and our conversations I 237 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 4: end up using with my clients. So it's really helpful 238 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 4: to have someone who sees me in the same way 239 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 4: that I think I'm starting to see her and getting 240 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 4: up opportunity to see her. 241 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 2: She's my sideline therapist. 242 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: She talks about being the sex therapist, but I remember 243 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: when that was the furthest thing from her mind. But 244 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: as she's grown and to this she has helped me 245 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 3: to see things in my life that I can change, 246 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: improve upon to make the rest of my journey better 247 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 3: more productive. I don't take her as my therapist. I 248 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 3: would not want that to be. But she opens my 249 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: eyes to things to think about attachments and. 250 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: Ways of growing and ways of looking at things. 251 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: I think I'm going to run back to the question 252 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: you ask about our similarities. One of the things that 253 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 3: we talked about in one of our last conversations was food, 254 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 3: and she was telling me about her relationship with food. 255 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: When we got off the phone, I'm thinking, well, I 256 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: don't have that relationship with food. And then something else 257 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: comes along and I'm thinking about but I do have 258 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: this one. And because of our relationship, it helped me 259 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: to go down the path of why do I have 260 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 3: this reallylationship to open those doors, And I think that 261 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 3: without our relationship, I've said this to her, I think 262 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: I would be a greeter at Walmart in my senior years, 263 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 3: you know, just be settled with Okay, I don't want 264 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 3: to just stay around the house, but I'll just get 265 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: a job as a greeter at Walmart instead. Because of 266 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 3: our conversations, she's helped me to see that there are 267 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: a lot bigger things out there to do. And she's 268 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 3: always saying, as my friends are saying, you're always doing 269 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 3: something new, You're always reinventing yourself, and I owe that 270 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: to our conversations. I know that without them, I would 271 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 3: be the same person I was twenty years ago. 272 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: I love it more From my conversation after the break, 273 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: I feel like you're answering my next question, which was, 274 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: you know what do you really feel like the age 275 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: difference ads to the relationship And it sounds like what 276 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: you're saying, Betty, is that Korein really helps you to 277 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: kind of stay fresh and keep you open to always 278 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: trying new things. 279 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: She does she does. 280 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: When I was a young person, my father gave me 281 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: the advice he said, when you turn forty, start making 282 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: friends in every generation. You're going to see the value 283 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 3: of that. And I do see the value of that. 284 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: Just in one of our recent conversations, I was telling 285 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 3: her about a new venture that I was going to start, 286 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 3: but I didn't want to use my phone number and 287 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 3: I didn't want to get a second phone. 288 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: She said, what about gogal Voice? Like what is Google Voice? 289 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: And so she's telling me about it, I'm like, Oh, 290 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 3: this is just so great. So now I shared this 291 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: with my friends and my age group, like Google Voice? 292 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: What is that? And I know that if I didn't. 293 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 3: Know Karen, we would all be ignorant to this day 294 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 3: of such things as Google Voice. 295 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just an example of it. 296 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 3: She does keep me fresh, and I think that I 297 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: give her the model of what seniorhood can look like. 298 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: You know, when I was growing up, the model was 299 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: rocking chair front porch watching the world go by. That 300 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 3: is not the model that I followed. And I'm hoping 301 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: that she will see that. My motto, my tagline on 302 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 3: my emails, on my voicemails, and my trainings that I 303 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: do is never stop learning. And she has helped me 304 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: to always continue to learn. I mean, just the other day, 305 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 3: she sent me a text, you gotta listen to this 306 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: YouTube video and I looked at as like an hour long. 307 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 2: My gosh, I don't. 308 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 3: Know, but I did, and I can't wait to listen 309 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 3: to it again, you know. I mean, so we just 310 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 3: keep each other fresh that way. I'm so thankful for 311 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 3: her in my life. 312 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: What would you say, Karin, what do you feel like 313 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: the age difference really adds to the relationship. 314 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 4: Inspiration is the first word that comes to remind I 315 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 4: think when I was younger, I remember thinking you were 316 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 4: like the coolest person in the world. Like my godmother. 317 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 4: She travels and she has all this knowledge, and one 318 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 4: of the things that she's really helped me is just 319 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 4: to embody myself in my existence and be a little 320 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 4: bit more free. And we used to talk about when 321 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 4: I was a teenager, you know, her and my mom 322 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 4: would just bust out singing in the middle of anywhere, 323 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 4: literally anywhere, Like they would just sing or they would 324 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 4: talk in their special language anywhere, and they would be 325 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 4: so unapologetically themselves. And I think it took me, and 326 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 4: it's still taking me. 327 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 3: You know. 328 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 4: It's an onwar journey for me, this ability to be 329 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 4: seen and just unapologetically being myself, embodying myself and owning 330 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 4: all of that that comes. And so I remember thinking 331 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 4: how I wanted to. 332 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: Be just like that. 333 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 4: I want to be free. I want to be old 334 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 4: when I walk into a room. And it started there, 335 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 4: But I would say as I get older as an adult, 336 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 4: it is inspiring because her tagline of never stopped learning 337 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 4: is essentially something I use and kind of live my 338 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 4: life by constantly this constant death and transformation, this death 339 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 4: and rebirth process, never being afraid to not own versions 340 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 4: of myself that no longer apply to me, and so 341 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 4: as we're talking, I realized how important that is for me, 342 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 4: and that was instilled at a young age, I think 343 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 4: from you, and and yeah, you just bring this inspiration, 344 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 4: this wisdom. I've always been someone who has craved wisdom 345 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 4: like this knowledge and just understanding and someone who's not 346 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 4: willing to play the devil's advocate, which I think a 347 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 4: lot of us there that's enjoyed to do. And so 348 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 4: having someone in your life that you can go there 349 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 4: with and be this vulnerable self and someone who sees 350 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 4: you and appreciates you like I think our love story 351 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 4: is one that makes me realize really what it feels 352 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 4: like to be seen in friendship and what it feels 353 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 4: like to have that pure like you've seen me at 354 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 4: my worst, and in our case, you've seen me from 355 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 4: the beginning, you know. And so yeah, this inspiration and 356 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 4: this level of vulnerability that I'm learning is necessary and 357 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 4: that I now take from our friendship and Foster and 358 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 4: my other friendships as well. 359 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: You know, I find myself really struck by the way 360 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: that you all have transitioned into this friendship that feels 361 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: very like you operate as equals when it feels like 362 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: it would have been so easy for you to fall 363 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: into this like mother daughter kind of pattern. Can you 364 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: say a little bit about how you all have resisted that. 365 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 4: No, it's interesting because I think we almost got there. 366 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 4: We were operating there for a little bit, I would say, 367 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 4: maybe from like twenty sixteen, and then I moved down 368 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 4: to North Carolina in twenty nineteen. And when I first 369 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 4: moved down here, we talked a lot about I don't 370 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 4: know if you remember, we talked a lot about you 371 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 4: coming down here, like taking care of me, right, almost 372 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 4: like that grandmotherly role, like all in my scalp. And 373 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 4: she came into my first apartment and cooked for me 374 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 4: and stayed with me and snuck some crafts down playing 375 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 4: for me. And then I think there was a shift 376 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 4: I would probably say maybe in twenty nineteen. I don't 377 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 4: know it was pre pandemic, but it just was this 378 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 4: natural shift that occurred where I think I really got 379 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 4: deeper into my spiritual journey and it was something that 380 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 4: we connected on just a different level. And from there 381 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 4: we began really building a friendship. I think it's when 382 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 4: we really identified ourselves as friends. I think before we 383 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 4: were like, oh, we just love our godmother goddaughter relationship. 384 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 4: We take care of each other, we see each other. 385 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: But I think it wasn't until we actually named it, like, 386 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 4: you know, you're my best friends, You're someone that I 387 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 4: can go to, and we really ran with it. I mean, 388 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 4: correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's really 389 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 4: kind of where we pivoted fully towards friendship. 390 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: I think you're right. 391 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 3: I know that when we went on one of our 392 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 3: homie trips, that's what we call our homie trips. When 393 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 3: we went to Sedona, a couple of things came out 394 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 3: that showed me that. 395 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: I could trust her. 396 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 3: I contracted altitude sickness. She was so calm in the 397 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: midst of all of that, and she just handled things. 398 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 3: And then I showed her a side of me that 399 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 3: she didn't know existed. And I think it started then 400 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 3: that we began to realize that we are individuals. We 401 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 3: are not necessarily in this role of god mother godparents. 402 00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 3: Then we often think about god daughter godmother relationships being 403 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 3: holiday related. You know, I give you your Birthday gift, 404 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 3: give you a Christmas gift, Maybe you'll give me a 405 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 3: Mother's Day gift, and that sort of thing. When we 406 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 3: realized that we couldn't afford to give gifts. 407 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 2: It's like, well, that's kind of gone out the window. 408 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 3: And then we realized that it was a bigger gift, 409 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 3: you know, the friendship was a much bigger gift than 410 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 3: any material thing that we could give. I don't know 411 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 3: that there was a particular point when we could say 412 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 3: we're now friends and not god mother goddaughter. We talk 413 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 3: about this often. We don't know what had happened. It 414 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 3: just sort of evolved, but I think it began when 415 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 3: I realized I could trust her to handle things, and 416 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 3: therefore I didn't always have to be the adult. And 417 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 3: I remember telling her when she was younger, we were 418 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 3: both younger. I would pick her up and she would say, 419 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 3: I want to drive. I want to drive, and I 420 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 3: would say to her, don't worry. One day you're going 421 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 3: to be the person picking me up. You're going to 422 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 3: be the person taking care of the trips and the planning. 423 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 3: And the day did arrive. And because I think that 424 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 3: was in our expectation that I would not always be 425 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 3: the leader, that there would come a time when she 426 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 3: would have her chance to lead, and we made that. 427 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: Prophecy come true. 428 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 3: And so we take turns now, and I think we 429 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 3: learned a lot from her mother my best friend that 430 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 3: in order to have a friendship, there are times when 431 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 3: you need to know that you can let your friend 432 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 3: handle everything. That today you don't have to think about anything. 433 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: You don't have to think about what you're having for breakfast, 434 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 3: you don't have to think about how you're getting here, 435 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: you don't have to make any decisions whatsoever today. And 436 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 3: when I realized that she was a person that I 437 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 3: could trust my life with, I think that's the point 438 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 3: of time when we could transition from me being the 439 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 3: responsible adult to us both being responsible adults and friends. 440 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: More from my conversation after the break so, do you 441 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: feel like there are any rules or guidelines that really 442 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: helps add to the longevity of your friendship. 443 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 4: My favorite thing is that we do not put pressure 444 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 4: on each other. And I think this is a tenet 445 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 4: that I've actually taken to my own friendships because I 446 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 4: can be very finicky. I'm a Gemini with a scorpio rising, 447 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 4: so I really may not text back, I may not 448 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 4: call back. You might not hear from me weeks at 449 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 4: a time. In having someone where sometimes she's on that 450 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 4: same exact time It has been the most stressful even 451 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 4: thing because I actually took the quiz and I'm the 452 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 4: leader of the friendship group, and a lot of times 453 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 4: I feel very responsible for let me make sure everyone's 454 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 4: checking in, how's everyone doing, Okay, this person's birthday, it's 455 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 4: that person's birthday. Let me make sure okay, this person's 456 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 4: brother sick. Let me check in on them. So I'm 457 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 4: always doing that, but this tip is different because I 458 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 4: feel like I don't always have to do that, and 459 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 4: we take turns doing that for each other. So there 460 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 4: will be weeks that go by where we might not 461 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 4: talk and I'll just kind of send her I love 462 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 4: you gbu R, which is our sign off, and she'll 463 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 4: be on the same time. She'll be like, it's been 464 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 4: a crazy couple weeks for me too, I've been actually 465 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 4: thinking about you love you too. We'll talk when we talk, 466 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 4: and that freedom, I think has really been one of 467 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 4: my favorite parts of our friendship for sure. And it's 468 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 4: just the ability to let each other be and trusting 469 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 4: that when it's time, we'll talk and even when it's frustrating, 470 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 4: we'll be frustrated about it, but we know, oh okay, 471 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 4: as soon as we get on the phone. This is 472 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 4: why it took so long. We needed to go through 473 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 4: experiences like I feel like more recently in the past 474 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 4: couple of years for me, we used to talk I 475 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 4: think a lot more often. And then as I've been 476 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 4: just kind of finishing up for rad school and clinical internship, 477 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 4: things got really crazy and even in my personal life 478 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 4: there were things I had to learn that she would 479 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 4: usually be the person I would run to right for 480 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 4: more spiritual guidance, but I ended up learning those lessons 481 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 4: on my own, and then we talked about them more 482 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 4: on the friendship level, and so I think that's been 483 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 4: my favorite part, is just this complete and total acceptance 484 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 4: of each other and meeting each other where we're at. 485 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 2: I have to agree with that as well. 486 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 3: The ability to be who you are, the ability to 487 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: do that on apologetically, the ability to be a part 488 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 3: yet be together, to be together yet be alone. 489 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 2: It's really good. Those things I think make for the longevity. 490 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 3: The ability to be who you are, and the knowledge 491 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 3: that I may not be the same person tomorrow that 492 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 3: I am today, and that's going to be okay. And 493 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 3: she said she in the test that she turned out 494 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 3: to be the leader I turned out to be the peacemaker, 495 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 3: and so I think that those two go well together, 496 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 3: the leader and the peacemaker. And I know that when 497 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: we're done with this podcast, it doesn't happen today that 498 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 3: in our next conversation, this is going to be our 499 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: conversation and what we learned from the quiz and how 500 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 3: it really helps our friendship along. But I think the 501 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: peacemaker and the Leader we harmonize, and thinking about that, 502 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 3: I think is the reason that wherever we meet new 503 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 3: people who just fall in love with us, we may 504 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 3: never see them again, but we meet these new people 505 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 3: that fall in love of us want to give us things. 506 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 3: There's really something very special going on between us. 507 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: M So, was there anything surprising for you about the 508 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: quiz or your results from the quiz? For either me? 509 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: No? 510 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: I mean, you know what, I'm so old that I've 511 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 3: taken those quizzes so many times. I remember taking one 512 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 3: when Cosmopolitan first came out. You guys really thought it 513 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 3: was out forever. No, I remember when it first came 514 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: out and we were taking the quizzes then. So I 515 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: really wasn't surprised. But I am surprised. That's surprise. Maybe, 516 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 3: isn't the word, but I'll use it anyway. That she 517 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 3: came out as leader, like. 518 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: I don't know what the other choices were. 519 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 3: I would have thought she might have come out as 520 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 3: peacemaker as well. 521 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: Was anything surprising for you, Karin, No. 522 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 4: I think I was either going to get leader or 523 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 4: peacemaker if there was a possibility to be somewhere in 524 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 4: the middle. I think that's the that I hang out 525 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 4: on because I tend to be the person planning things 526 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 4: in my friend group, so I think that's where the 527 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 4: leader piece came from. But I'm very aware of my 528 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 4: energetic aura and I'm very aware of what I do 529 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 4: to a room, so I try to check in with 530 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 4: people constantly, and I think that's where I hang out 531 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 4: in the more peace maker place of you know, is 532 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 4: everyone okay, this is where so and so's coming from, 533 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 4: this is where the other person's coming from. I've literally 534 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 4: been a mediator, you know, and nothing surprised me about 535 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 4: what I got. I will fall somewhere between leader and peacemaker. 536 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 4: And I used to be the firecracker, I would say, 537 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 4: but not. 538 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 3: I want to add that I can see that in 539 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 3: ten years or more, you will be the firecracker. A 540 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 3: game you're going to be a senior citizen Firecracker. 541 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 4: But yeah, I can see that a lot. I think 542 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 4: as I'm growing into min I'm currently going through my 543 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 4: sadder returns, so definitely trying to navigate through life's journey 544 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 4: and purpose and kind of this next chapter into my 545 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 4: adulthood coming into thirty and so I definitely can see 546 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 4: myself moving out of leader and more into I don't 547 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 4: give a damn. This is what I am, this is 548 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 4: where I'm at. I'm intentional with my friendships, and also y'all, 549 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 4: I'm tired. I can't be trying to figure this out 550 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 4: for all of us, like y'all let you know when 551 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 4: y'all get back on the same page. 552 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 3: I love you both. 553 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 4: Let me know if you need an individual, I'm here 554 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 4: for you. But I can't be doing all that. So 555 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 4: I think I'll evolve, And again that comes with our friendship, 556 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 4: like we accept each other no matter what role we're 557 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 4: in in our stage of life, whether I'm the leader, 558 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 4: she's peacemaker. She might be the leader and I'm firecracker. 559 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 4: I think we really kind of hakele on all of 560 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 4: those concepts and alternate and shift. 561 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: So, Betty, what would you say, makes Karen a great friend. 562 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: So many things. 563 00:31:54,440 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 3: Okay, so she's a listener, not only a carrying listener 564 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 3: that you can share things with, but she's a listener 565 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 3: who pays attention and tries it. She takes my experiences 566 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 3: and run with them. 567 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: And I like that. 568 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: I think so many times people will hear, especially as senior, 569 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 3: or hear your experiences and think that happened to you, 570 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 3: not to me. But she's someone who really pays attention 571 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 3: to that. And I think one of the questions in 572 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,239 Speaker 3: the quiz was do you feel as if you're being 573 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: listened to? And I think that she listens to me. 574 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 3: I think the other thing is that she's adventuresome like 575 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 3: I am, and she's the person that we can dream 576 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 3: and maybe one day we'll actually do these things, but 577 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 3: to travel to exotic places or try exotic foods, or 578 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 3: be silly on the street corner one day, you know, 579 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 3: and put some of those plans into effects. 580 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 2: And then probably one of the most important things is 581 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 2: this ladder that we form. 582 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 3: I mentioned to her the Bible story of Jacob's Ladder, 583 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 3: and in that story, Jacob sees this ladder, but it 584 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 3: doesn't have a formation on the ground that speed are 585 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 3: not on the ground. And the thing that's really interesting 586 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 3: about our ladder is that when you see a ladder, 587 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 3: you see each person going up the ladder. But there 588 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 3: are times when she stands on my shoulder we watch 589 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 3: each other grow. I will go through something, she can 590 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 3: use that to grow. She stands on my shoulder and 591 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 3: she gets taller. She stays there, but somehow then I 592 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: can stammer her shoulder and I get taller. We're never 593 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: connected to the ground anymore. We just keep going up 594 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: to the same ladder. And that is something that is 595 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 3: unique in our relationship. I don't have it with anybody else. 596 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 3: And I have friends that I had been friends with 597 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: for sixty years and I don't have that with them. 598 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is unique. 599 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: And what would you say, Karin, what makes Betty a 600 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: great friend? 601 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 4: I would definitely say I guess the first piece would 602 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 4: be her fire for energy, her boldness in getting to 603 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 4: kind of soak that up like a sponge and then 604 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 4: playing around and seeing what that feels like for me. 605 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 4: She's so inspirational, like I just like she is so cool, 606 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,919 Speaker 4: and the way that she is never afraid to try 607 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 4: something new, and the way that She's never afraid to 608 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 4: shift directions or start fresh. I honor that and I 609 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 4: love that so much, and it gives me the courage 610 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 4: to know that, Okay, I could beat seventy ten or 611 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 4: starting a whole new career and that's fine. What is 612 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 4: someone going to say about it? 613 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 2: Nothing? 614 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 4: And I appreciate that. I would also say her love 615 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 4: of laughter and silliness, because I I think I just 616 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 4: love being silly, and having someone where you can really 617 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 4: do that is amazing. I would say her adventure some 618 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 4: personality as well, you know, never being afraid to try 619 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 4: something new and learn something new. I think one of 620 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 4: our favorite things is that we will talk about anything. 621 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 4: And I love random facts, so having someone else that 622 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 4: also enjoys random facts and has all of this knowledge. 623 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 4: I think the other piece of it that I really 624 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 4: like is that we can be silent together. I think 625 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 4: that is a very underrated form of like vulnerability and 626 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 4: comfort with another person is existing without having to interact. 627 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 4: And I can really only do that generally with my 628 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 4: partner and with her. We haven't found a whole bunch 629 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 4: of people where that occupies our friendship as well. Maybe 630 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 4: in spurts and some of my other friendships, but I 631 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 4: think this one is different because we just exist together 632 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 4: and it's almost like, even in that resting time, we're 633 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 4: still learning something. We're both very observational of the other 634 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 4: person and so being able to have someone say, hey, 635 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 4: I'm curious about this, where you might not even be 636 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 4: thinking about it, and then it becomes a whole you know, well, 637 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 4: oh wow, a revelation. Right. Having someone that knows you 638 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 4: in that way, it fosters growth, you know, in its 639 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 4: truest sense, It's like allows you to grow because you 640 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 4: have someone who wants nothing but to encourage you to grow. 641 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 4: And I think those are all my favorite things. You're 642 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 4: the total package as a friend, you know, I love it. 643 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing so openly about your 644 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: story with one another. So let us know where can 645 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: we find you online? I know people will be curious 646 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: and have more questions. So where can we find you online? 647 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: Do you have any websites or social media handles you'd 648 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: like to share? 649 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 4: Well, you can find me on my Instagram. It is 650 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 4: new informing. I'm in the process of kind of building 651 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 4: and branding, So you can find me at Flowering, Underscore Heart, 652 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 4: Underscore Wellness on Instagram and I think on Facebook, but 653 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 4: don't be prise. Not a lot on there, y'all. It's 654 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 4: like my personal brain dump, right, So I'm building, But yeah, 655 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 4: come through for yoga, reiki, human design, therapy, chaps, all 656 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 4: that good stuff. 657 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 2: On Instagram, it's aunt, babe. 658 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 4: Is that what I am? Your on baby story is 659 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 4: what you are Instagram? 660 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 2: But I've never used Instagram. 661 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 3: I'm a Facebook person. Betty Haskins, You'll find me there. 662 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 3: I'm in the process of developing a new web page, 663 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 3: so at some point maybe it'll be there. 664 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: We will be ensured to in clude what you do 665 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: have in the show notes. Thank you again both for 666 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: joining me today. I'm so glad Karent and Betty were 667 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: able to join us for this episode. Don't forget to 668 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 1: grab your copy of the book Sisterhood Heels at sisterhood 669 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: Heels dot com, and remember to take the Sister Friend 670 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: Quiz for yourself to find out if you're the leader, wallflower, peacemaker, 671 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: or firecracker in your friend group. If you're looking for 672 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: a therapist in your area, check out our therapist directory 673 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory, and if 674 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: you want to continue digging into this topic, or just 675 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: be in community with other sisters. Come on over and 676 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,959 Speaker 1: join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner 677 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: of the Internet designed just for Black women. You can 678 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: join us at Community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 679 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, and 680 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all 681 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: so much for joining me again this week. I look 682 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 683 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: Take good care. What's The reviews for Sisterhood Heels are 684 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: rolling in and I simply cannot stop smiling at the 685 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: hot girl books on Instagram shared finish reading this warm 686 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: hug of a book last night and while it made 687 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: me want to hug my sister friend so bad, Sisterhood 688 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,959 Speaker 1: Heels is a beautiful guide on how we as black 689 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: women can use our community and friends to aid in 690 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: our healing process. Thank you so much for the beautiful review. 691 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: Have you grabbed your copy yet? Get one for yourself 692 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: and a friend at sisterhood Heels dot com.