1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen girl just fourteen

2
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 1: years old, Curly Greg reportedly shoots mommy in the face

3
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:21,279
Speaker 1: and then texts her friends to come see a dead body.

4
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: Let that sink ken. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This

5
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories.

6
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:38,599
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.

7
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,239
Speaker 3: A fifteen year old Mississippi high school student self reported

8
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,560
Speaker 3: math and history nerd. Loves her pets and her mother.

9
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 3: Is she also a killer?

10
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 1: Maybe? Fifteen? Now fourteen at the time mommy gets shot

11
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 1: in the face. But hold on, Let's don't put the

12
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,520
Speaker 1: car before the horse. Let's take a listen to that

13
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: nine one one call. I love nothing better except when

14
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 1: the defendant takes to stand love that the most. Nothing

15
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 1: better than a nine to one one call. Listen.

16
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,479
Speaker 4: Okay, sir, where is your where's your?

17
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:22,000
Speaker 5: Why that on the bore of my daughter stepdaughter room?

18
00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:28,880
Speaker 5: She's on the poor in your stepdaughter's room. What do

19
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:43,119
Speaker 5: I say? Act Ashley? Tie her? Sir? I speak with me? Okay?

20
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,320
Speaker 5: Can you go out? Can go outside the house and speak? Coming?

21
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:52,840
Speaker 4: Okay?

22
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: That gut wrenching nine one one call of Mommy's husband

23
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: finding her in the floor, shot in the face, No

24
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: matter how many times I listen to a nine one

25
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 1: one call. When I hear the person calling in it,

26
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 1: it's almost disabling for the moment to hear that raw

27
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,079
Speaker 1: pain in their voice. What more can we learn?

28
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 4: Listen, that's that's mom, Yeah, yeah, under Mom and dad,

29
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:38,840
Speaker 4: I forgot it?

30
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 5: Okay and dad.

31
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,440
Speaker 4: Dad's got to throw on the shoulder. He's already in

32
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:46,080
Speaker 4: the ambush.

33
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 1: Okay. So join me in all star panel that makes

34
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. Lauren Colin, first

35
00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 1: to you, co host Primetime Crime on YouTube. Lauren, who

36
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,400
Speaker 1: found Mommy?

37
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,079
Speaker 6: He smile found his wife Ashley smiling, and that is

38
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 6: Carly Greg's stepfather.

39
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 1: So the stepfather finds her. But yet, when we are

40
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,320
Speaker 1: listening to the ranking County sheriffs on their body cam footage,

41
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 1: one deputy says this mom and this number two says

42
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: this mom yeah, and then he goes no, she Mom

43
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,600
Speaker 1: and dad both got it. Mom and dad both got

44
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,959
Speaker 1: what got hit? Explain Lauren Conlin.

45
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 6: So when he Smiley walked into his house, he was

46
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,120
Speaker 6: met by Carly Gregg who attempted to shoot him, got

47
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,320
Speaker 6: him in the shoulder as he fought her off.

48
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: So immediately on the scene they realize what they think

49
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 1: has happened straight out to Catherine White and Newman, ranking

50
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 1: county assistant district attorney before that, public defender, private practice

51
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 1: in a wide variety of cases. Catherine, thank you for

52
00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 1: being with us. You know, Catherine, when you hear defense

53
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 1: attorneys say there's no playbook for grief, the husband's showing

54
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: no emotion because he's in so much shock. Did you

55
00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,120
Speaker 1: hear that nine one one call, Catherine.

56
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 7: I did, Nancy, That nine one one call is one

57
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,040
Speaker 7: of the most chilling that I've heard on any type

58
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,360
Speaker 7: of case. He was in sheer shock and terror. We

59
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 7: believe that he was certainly speaking the truth at that moment.

60
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 1: That really hit the nail on the head, Katherine White Newman,

61
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 1: speaking the truth regardless of emotion, lack of emotion, demeanor

62
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: response if you can determine if they're telling the truth.

63
00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: And of course we're not lie detectors, but when I

64
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,679
Speaker 1: hear a nine one one call like that, it sounds

65
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,679
Speaker 1: genuine to me. Now think about it, Catherine White Newman.

66
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with the Alex Murdoch double murder

67
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 1: trial in South Carolina where he was kind of like eh,

68
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: and then it would go away and then he go again.

69
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 1: It was kind of an intermittent kind of wine. That's

70
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,479
Speaker 1: not what we're hearing right here, is it, Catherine, No.

71
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 4: It's not.

72
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 7: In fact, at the beginning of the call, the nine

73
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,559
Speaker 7: one one dispatcher actually thought he was speaking to a woman,

74
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 7: and Heath's voice was so high pitched because of the

75
00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 7: terror that he was in that they again thought he

76
00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 7: was a woman, and it wasn't until he gave them

77
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 7: his name that they realized they were talking to a man.

78
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 1: Katherine White Newman has actually worked on this case to

79
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,480
Speaker 1: Kevin Camp joining us, a veteran criminal defense attorney and

80
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,920
Speaker 1: lead lawyer in the case for Carly Gregg and f YI,

81
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: just so you know, former JAG military attorney guys, he's

82
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,360
Speaker 1: at Camp Law Firm dot com. Kevin Camp question, how

83
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,280
Speaker 1: do you somehow? What do you do you say to

84
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 1: the jury? Look here, not here?

85
00:05:58,520 --> 00:05:59,280
Speaker 5: How do you do that?

86
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,320
Speaker 1: On one call is being played in front of the jury.

87
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,400
Speaker 1: Do you just sit there pretend like you don't hear it?

88
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,799
Speaker 1: Do you pull an OJ and act like you're taking

89
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,479
Speaker 1: notes out when OJ's really writing I did it, y'all? Okay,

90
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 1: So what do you do? When you're hearing that nine

91
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 1: to one one call.

92
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,560
Speaker 8: At that point, you're just like what you said, You're

93
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 8: you're trying to do something to deflect it away from

94
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 8: your client and to move on from those issues as

95
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 8: quickly as you possibly can. Sometimes you you have the

96
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 8: situation where you know, look at the monkey, look at

97
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 8: the silly monkey over here, and you know, and get whatever,

98
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 8: whatever the issue is, you want to get off of

99
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 8: that subject just as fast as you can.

100
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,400
Speaker 9: Oh yes, And of course, from.

101
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 1: What I can understand about your trial record, Kevin Camp,

102
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,039
Speaker 1: you have certainly schooled your client how to behave in court.

103
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,360
Speaker 1: Here's a little example. I was trying a murder case.

104
00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,160
Speaker 1: When I came into court, I had not seen it

105
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,040
Speaker 1: at the arrament care calendar or any of the motion's calendars.

106
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,800
Speaker 1: And I looked. But in a murder case, the defendant

107
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,160
Speaker 1: had shaved into the back of his head hit man

108
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: number one. You know how many times I went to

109
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 1: the other side of the courtroom, so you'd have to

110
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: turn around and look that way so the jury could

111
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 1: see the back of his head. Well, obviously his lawyer

112
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 1: did not school him not to put that on the

113
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 1: back of his head. Bottom line I'm sure you have

114
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,200
Speaker 1: your client schooled how to behave when damning evidence is

115
00:07:28,240 --> 00:08:13,320
Speaker 1: pouring from the witness stand. Listen, fourteen did a fourteen

116
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 1: year old girl shoot her mom dead? Shoot her stepfather?

117
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 1: And if so, why they did everything possible to show

118
00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,600
Speaker 1: her she's loved? And now I understand why Catherine White

119
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: Newman is saying they thought they were speaking to a woman,

120
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,839
Speaker 1: because Smiley, the stepfather, is in so much pain and

121
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 1: shock from being shot and seeing his wife dead. His

122
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,280
Speaker 1: voice has gone into a whole another octave and he

123
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 1: says she's fourteen. She ran away. I want to show

124
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: you some video that we have obtained. That's Carly Gregg

125
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 1: and her home. And from a trained eye, I immediately

126
00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 1: notice everything's spotless. There. She walks out of the view

127
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,400
Speaker 1: from the Okay, walking back across the den so far,

128
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: nothing in her hands. There are the dogs following her around,

129
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 1: everything as normal. I see her backpack. Oh, she's coming

130
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: around the corner with something behind her back. Oh what

131
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: could it be? Okay, not just one, but I think

132
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,839
Speaker 1: three gunshots. There's free meditation right there. That's plenty of

133
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,000
Speaker 1: time to form intent to kill. Here she comes back,

134
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: guns still behind her back and go straight to her phone.

135
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 1: Why not, Mommy's dead and she's texting. I wonder if

136
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 1: that's when she texts, Hey, guys, you want to see

137
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,319
Speaker 1: a dead body, Come on over now, wait for it,

138
00:09:52,200 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 1: wait for it? Texting texting Catherine White. Nay, maman, did

139
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 1: she actually break out into song?

140
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,319
Speaker 7: She did, Nancy. She absolutely started homing at some point.

141
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,000
Speaker 7: And the person she was texting at that moment that

142
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 7: was her mother's, her dead mother's phone. She picked up

143
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 7: that phone and text her stepdad and said.

144
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 8: When will you be home? Honey?

145
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 1: So she is luring luring the step dad to the scene.

146
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 7: That's right, That's absolutely correct. She had her phone there,

147
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 7: but she chose to use her mother's uh to text

148
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 7: him to find out when he would be home.

149
00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 1: Gonna be very tough to show any type of mental

150
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 1: defense when she texts the stepdad luring him home so

151
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 1: she can shoot him dead.

152
00:10:52,200 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, okay, sir, all right? What's her name? Carly Gregg?

153
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 5: Carly Gregg? Did you still have a gun? Homer?

154
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,559
Speaker 1: He ran.

155
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:24,839
Speaker 3: Ran h Burnes, evapstash pot and an angry team. It's

156
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 3: an explosive combination that leads to death.

157
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:36,400
Speaker 5: I'm not we got, we got everybody had, that's what

158
00:11:40,320 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 5: your mom? Where's the mon where's sir? God?

159
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's so hard to hear that raw pain

160
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 1: and emotion by the stepdad finding his wife shot in

161
00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:21,719
Speaker 1: the face, to just the out pouring, the screaming, the

162
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,559
Speaker 1: crying she shot her mom and she's gonna come back

163
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 1: and kill me, And still this nine one one person

164
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to understand what's going on. The nine one

165
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 1: one dispatch says she killed her mom, and he goes, yes,

166
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,960
Speaker 1: that's what I've been trying to tell you this whole call.

167
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 1: And now she's coming back to kill me. It's really

168
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 1: gonna be hard to make that mental defect, that mental defense.

169
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: When we see Curly Gregg, fourteen years old, sneaking around

170
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,960
Speaker 1: the house with a gun behind her back, sneaking into

171
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,840
Speaker 1: mom's area and shooting mom in the face. There's three

172
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: gun shots that we hear fired and then go straight

173
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,559
Speaker 1: to the phone and texts stepdad hey from mom's phone.

174
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 1: From mom's phone, another layer of deception to lure him home.

175
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: Let's stay on that one moment when we introed, I

176
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,240
Speaker 1: heard the words burner, phones, pot, and an angry teen

177
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 1: wait a minute straight out to doctor William Marony, longtime

178
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:32,840
Speaker 1: colleague and friend, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, opioid treatment expert,

179
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 1: and author of a bestseller American Narcian. It's about saving

180
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 1: lives with malaxon dtr Maroney, thank you for taking time

181
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,719
Speaker 1: from the morgue. I can't imagine who wants to tear

182
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 1: themselves away from that. But that said, are we really

183
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 1: going to blame pot here? That pot caused some kind

184
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,679
Speaker 1: of a middle deepink? You're the toxicologist, I'm not buying it.

185
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:03,280
Speaker 1: Help me.

186
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 9: There's an awful lot of moral ethical and it's a

187
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 9: just a terrible state of American mental health. There's dissociative

188
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 9: disease here, dissociateive disease. Let me dumb it down, because

189
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 9: I know not everybody's a doctor. The idea that she

190
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 9: has a mental health process, that she's disconnected from thoughts, feelings,

191
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 9: and identity to make this happen. This violence is the

192
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 9: end result of dissociative disease. But guess what six times

193
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 9: more likely psychosis with cannabis.

194
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: So okay, take hold on, let me rephrase my question.

195
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 1: Can I blame this on pot?

196
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,760
Speaker 9: Fifty fifty mental illness and drugs together.

197
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,680
Speaker 1: Why wait, now, you're the medical examiner, right, Yes, but

198
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 1: it's it's okay. Do you have a degree that you've

199
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 1: kept hidden from me in psychiatry.

200
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,440
Speaker 9: Yes, I'm writing a book called Sidewalks.

201
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,280
Speaker 1: Does not have a degree in psychiatry.

202
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 9: I did study psychiatry at school, so no, no, I'm

203
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,000
Speaker 9: going to argue with you. I can make these decisions.

204
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 9: I see people's mental.

205
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 1: I study psychology. I had one course in it. But

206
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 1: that doesn't make me Karen Stark. Good, Okay, I differ.

207
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 1: One little rotation with a psychiatric unit does not make

208
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 1: you a psychiatrists, just like my one class in psychology

209
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,960
Speaker 1: does not turn me into Karen Stark.

210
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 9: But I've seen this mental health of twenty years.

211
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 1: Using pot is not an excuse for shooting your mother

212
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 1: and your stepfather.

213
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 9: What we have what we call three hit hypotheses genetics, environment,

214
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 9: and then drugs. You add them all together and you

215
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 9: get a terrible combination that leads to disrespective life, to

216
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 9: socia of disease, and then violent behavior that breaks laws.

217
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 9: This is the breakdown of society. There's not enough mental

218
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 9: health here, and the lack of.

219
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 1: Dear Lord in heaven. Now you're going to societal breakdown.

220
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,720
Speaker 1: I know their societal breakdown. Guess what they said that

221
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 1: in Roman times there will always be societal breakdown. Okay,

222
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: not my problem right now. My problem right now is

223
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: why to Curly Gregg shoot her mother. If she has

224
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: a mental defect, then I want her in a mental hospital.

225
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,400
Speaker 1: If she doesn't, I want her to treat it as

226
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: an adult and tribe for murder. It's really black and white,

227
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 1: it really is. You're telling me that pot I can

228
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 1: blame pot for the murder. Is that what you're saying?

229
00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 9: It adds to the dissociate disease six times more than

230
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 9: natural mental illness. The studies come from Scandinavia. They followed

231
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 9: conscripts for twenty years, and the condavia have six times

232
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 9: more likely to have psychotic episodes. Period.

233
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 1: Are you throwing a Scandinavian study at me and expecting

234
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,880
Speaker 1: me to let Curly greg walk for murdering her mother

235
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: and then shooting her steath?

236
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 9: No?

237
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: What hold on? Hold on, Marony, Catherine White Newman. Isn't

238
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 1: it true that just before Curly Gregg shot her mother

239
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,120
Speaker 1: in the face, I'm pretty sure I heard three gunshots

240
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: as you know you're a veteran prosecutor. Intent can be

241
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 1: formed in the twinkling of a moment, the blink of

242
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: an eye, the time it takes for you to pull

243
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,680
Speaker 1: a trigger. Under the law, you don't need a long

244
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,440
Speaker 1: drawn out plan such as poisoning someone over a period

245
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 1: of weeks and months, raising the gun, and pulling the trigger.

246
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 1: Under our jurisprudence shows intent. We've got three of those here.

247
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,360
Speaker 1: But that said, in casey jury doesn't believe me, isn't

248
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: it true the mom was searching her room and she

249
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: didn't like it.

250
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 7: That's exactly right, Nancy. Not only do we know that

251
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 7: because one of Carly's friends came forward to law enforcement

252
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 7: that day at school. He had been concerned about Carle's

253
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 7: use of burner phones and marijuana t x vapiens, and

254
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 7: so he confronted her mom to let her know about

255
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,200
Speaker 7: this secret life. And we know from Carlee's evaluations that

256
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 7: mom confronted her on the way home, and then from

257
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 7: the video evidence inside the home, we know that mom

258
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 7: went over to Carly's side of the house, removed some items,

259
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,239
Speaker 7: walked back to her bedroom at some point with them

260
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 7: in her hand, and then walked back to the bedroom

261
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 7: to continue searching. When law enforcement arrived on the scene

262
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 7: and they were able to process the scene, they found

263
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 7: four empty vape cartridge boxes as well as Carly's burner.

264
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: Okay, Katherine White Newman, you've got me drinking from the

265
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: fire hydrant. Okay, that was so much information, but I

266
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to stop you. Could you say that again

267
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,760
Speaker 1: and slowly? Because I'm making a flow chart here as

268
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: to why this girl is not insane. I'm not saying

269
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,960
Speaker 1: she wasn't depressed, not at all. I'm not saying she

270
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 1: didn't have some type of mental issues. Don't all teenagers

271
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 1: have some kind of mental issue. But that said, if

272
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,360
Speaker 1: she's truly mentally ill, I don't want her thrown into

273
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 1: gp general population. I want her treated. But I'm not

274
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: convinced yet. I have one dead body, a mother, a

275
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: devoted mother, shot in the face. I have her or

276
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 1: tasting her friends. Hey, you want to see a dead body,

277
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 1: and this is after she lures stepped at home to

278
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 1: shoot him. Now, my original question, Miss Newman, was isn't

279
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,120
Speaker 1: it true mother was going to search her room?

280
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 8: Yes?

281
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 7: Absolutely, that's true. Mom had gone into Carly's room. She

282
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 7: was currently searching through her room when Carly came in

283
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 7: and shot her three times in the head. From what

284
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 7: we learned through law enforcement and also through the trial

285
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 7: was that one of Carly's friends was so concerned about

286
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 7: her secret life using burner phones as well as these

287
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 7: marijuana thhc vappens that he confronted her mom at school

288
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 7: that day to let her know that he was concerned

289
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 7: about Carly. And so we also know from Carly's mental

290
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,120
Speaker 7: health evaluations she reported that mom in fact did confront

291
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 7: her on the way home about the drug use and

292
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 7: the phones. When law enforcement arrived at the scene to

293
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 7: process it, they found four empty vap pen boxes that

294
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 7: we assumed that mom had removed from Carly's bedroom. On

295
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 7: the video surveillance footage, Mom Ashley Smiley is seen walking

296
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 7: to Carly's of the house and then has something in

297
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 7: her hand and is scene walking to her bedroom and back,

298
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 7: and so we certainly think that Ashley had found those

299
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 7: baked pin boxes and quite frankly, possibly Carly's burner poam

300
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 7: before Carly came in and shot her mom three times

301
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 7: in the face inside her.

302
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 3: Bedroom, gunshots ring out. Carly Gregg caught on home surveillance

303
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: running away what happened?

304
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: Did you see her running away right there? Could I

305
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: just show that video one more time and that's from

306
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: out you're looking through the garage and there she goes.

307
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 1: Just so you know, that was Dad's blue pickup. That

308
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: was just Stepdad coming home after she lured him. There, guys,

309
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 1: with me and all Star Pannel, we have the prosecutor

310
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: on this case, Katherine White Newman, and the defense attorney

311
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: who still has not given up one greg Whether you

312
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: agree with him or not, that's what our constitution is

313
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: all about. He cares about one thing and one thing only,

314
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: doing everything he can within the law. I hope to

315
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: help his client. And if you're in trouble, that's kind

316
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: of lawyer you want. But I gotta tell you something,

317
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: Kevin Camp that text luring the stepdad and then the

318
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: text going hey guys, what's he? He dead body? Shooting

319
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: her mother twice in the face, and there's gotta be

320
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: some psychological story behind that once in the neck and

321
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: then shooting stepdad in the shoulder. It's gonna be really

322
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 1: tough to prove she has some type of mental defect.

323
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: When you when you see that and she runs flight

324
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: shows evidence of guilt. Knowledge of guilt? How do you

325
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: fight that? Yes, I know she usedes O law. I

326
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: get it, But how are you gonna blame pot?

327
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 8: She texted her friends because she asked them because she

328
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 8: needed help, and so the tech, the text stream from

329
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 8: all her friends was dealing with, uh, you know, come over,

330
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 8: I need help. Uh, you know, things of that nature.

331
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 8: And they became concerned because they.

332
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: Thought, you mean things of that nature. Whoopsie, you mean

333
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: when she said, hey, does a dead body bother you?

334
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 1: That that that other text that wasn't a text, that

335
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: that was not a text? Was okay? What was the

336
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: text that?

337
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 5: What was that?

338
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 8: That was when her one of her friends, which you

339
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 8: saw the friend running behind Carly in the video, when

340
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 8: that friend came over, then Carly made that comp Brooks said,

341
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 8: Carly made that comment to her, and so that that's

342
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 8: where that comes. That's not the that's not from the Texas.

343
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 8: It'd be the second person they you know what.

344
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm glad you clear cleared that up, Kevin Camp. So

345
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: am I supposed to assume that you think that's not

346
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: as damning as texting it? She says to her friend,

347
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: does dead body bother you?

348
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 8: The the other the other things that you ask about

349
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 8: sort of what's going on and why why we have

350
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 8: these opinions on it. It's a mental defect and things

351
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 8: of that nature. It's a lot of conversations that she's

352
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 8: having with her friends. It's it's convers it's Texas conversations.

353
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 8: It's things that she was writing in her diary that

354
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,399
Speaker 8: give us a glimpse of actually what was going on

355
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 8: that nobody knew besides her friends that these issues were

356
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 8: out there. And then what you're seeing is everything sort

357
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 8: of comes to a head on that March nineteenth day.

358
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 8: You have the medication comes into play. You have she

359
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 8: already had issues, she was cutting, there have been cutting issues.

360
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 8: There had been a lot of different mental things that

361
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 8: were that were all going on, and that's that's where

362
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 8: it all sort of comes together. One other thing that

363
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 8: I that I want to sort of clarify. They talked

364
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 8: about a burner fund. The burner phone is like just

365
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 8: an old iPad that they had and that she was

366
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 8: able to activate. So it's not like some you know,

367
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 8: nefarious phone. It was just one that that she was texting, uh,

368
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 8: texting her friends and stuff like that on and and

369
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 8: there was a boyfriend that I think she was texting

370
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 8: on that that she didn't want her mom to know about,

371
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 8: is what I got.

372
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: So she's using an old iPad that mom and dad

373
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: have discounted, and she's using that surreptitiously.

374
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's where that's when we're talking about a burner phone.

375
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 8: That's that's the quote unquote burner phone. And so the

376
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 8: person that she's talking to is this. There's a boyfriend

377
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 8: who came in and testified that I think she had

378
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 8: met him at some mathematics camp up at Mississippi State

379
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 8: or something that summer before, and so that was that

380
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 8: was where the Texas were going, you know, the nefarious

381
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 8: Texas that everybody says. She has a burner phone.

382
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: Listen.

383
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 10: Immediately after the shooting, Carly uses her mom's phone to

384
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 10: text Heith Smiley, you almost home, honey. Smiley replies he'll

385
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 10: be home in about an hour. Carly then sends a

386
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 10: text to six friends saying she's having an emergency and

387
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 10: needs someone to come to her house. One friend offers

388
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 10: to call nine one one, Carly declines. Eventually, one friend

389
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 10: agrees to come over. When Carly answers the door, she

390
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 10: asks the girl, are you squeamish around dead bodies, before

391
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 10: leading the girl to her mom's body in her bedroom.

392
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: What are you squeamish around dead bodies? And then takes

393
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: the friend to go look at mom's body. Catherine White Newman,

394
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: did that happen?

395
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 7: That did happen. One of the other things that has

396
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 7: not been addressed is that one of the people she

397
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 7: was texting with as you just played, offered to call

398
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 7: nine on one. She said, no, you can't do that.

399
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 7: One of the other friends. She also facetimed with multiple people,

400
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 7: so one of the other friends reported to law enforcement

401
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 7: that he told her don't hurt yourself or someone else,

402
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 7: and as soon as he got out or someone else,

403
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 7: she said it was too late. She also facetimed with

404
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 7: the same friend who had offered to call nine one one,

405
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 7: and she said, you can't do that. Our assumption is

406
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 7: because we knew that she wanted to try to kill

407
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 7: stepdad two, she didn't want her plans interrupted. But she

408
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 7: also explained to him that she had fed up again,

409
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 7: indicating to us, of course, Nancy, that she did in

410
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 7: fact know right from wrong. All of these actions. The

411
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 7: fact that she kept telling these friends, I can't tell

412
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 7: you why I need you to come over. I just

413
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 7: need help.

414
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: Let's go to Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma

415
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen with a

416
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: C if you're looking for her. Okay, Karen. The only

417
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: other fact I want to throw in is Curley had

418
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: been on Zoloft and switched to lexipro. I don't know

419
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: if that had anything to do with it, but I

420
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: can tell you this, Karen Stark. If it did and

421
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: the defense is using that prescription drug, everybody in Rikers

422
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: is going to walk free because they're all going to say, hey,

423
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: I was on lexapro.

424
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 11: Well, Nancy. I read that she was taking a very

425
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 11: small dose, and there's no way that that led to

426
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 11: psychotic behavior. I also want to talk about a disassociated

427
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 11: state that doctor Moroney kept mentioning. There's no way that

428
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 11: she's in a disassociated state. I don't even know where

429
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 11: that comes from. She is very aware of what she's doing.

430
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 11: She knows right from wrong. She knows to take her

431
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 11: mother's phone and to get in touch with his stepfather

432
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 11: and even use her mother's voice and say honey, are

433
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 11: you coming back soon? Her own counselor who saw her

434
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 11: the day before said that her mental state was fine.

435
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 11: She knows the difference between right and wrong. She knows

436
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 11: to walk quietly into her mother's room, She understands to

437
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 11: text her friends. She runs away after she attempts to

438
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 11: kill her stepfather. So this is someone who is a psychopath.

439
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 11: This is not a disassociated state. It's not because of

440
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 11: the medicine. It's very very clear. She's an angry teenager

441
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 11: who got caught and decides, well, I'll just go ahead

442
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 11: and kill both of them.

443
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: Lauren Collins joining me co hosts of Primetime Crime on YouTube,

444
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: which is incredible, Lauren, Lauren, is it true that when

445
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: everyone arrived at the scene they found mommy dad shot

446
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: three times? Which I'm gonna have to go to Maroney

447
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: on this overkill two times in the face, one time

448
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: in the neck. But Curly Gregg had laid a towel

449
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: over her mother's face.

450
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 6: That's correct, Nancy, she did lay a towel over her

451
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 6: mother's face. And I just I want to add that

452
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 6: Ashley Smiley was an incredibly devoted parent Nancy, and Carly

453
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 6: greg like Kevin said, was brilliant. She skipped a grade

454
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 6: at thirteen, she scored a thirty on her acts, and

455
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 6: that towel right there, combined with everything else, in my opinion,

456
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 6: does show that she did know right from wrong. She

457
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 6: perhaps did not want to look at what she did

458
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 6: to her mother after she shot her three times in

459
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 6: the face, so she put a towel over her.

460
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I've seen so many cases

461
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: where people do a makeshift covering, especially the murder of

462
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: victim's face, and one case where a daughter kills her

463
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: mother and then puts a wicker trash back basket out

464
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: of the bathroom over her mom's head. People throw leaves

465
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: over the face, only put a blanket a pillow. It's

466
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: very odd to me, but it's a thing because I've

467
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: seen it over and over. That's anecdotal proof, not statistics.

468
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: Doctor William Maroney again renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, and author.

469
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: Doctor Moroney, This all starts over vaping and popped. Mom

470
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: goes into the room after getting tipped off by a

471
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: friend of her daughter's and pulls out four vapes empty.

472
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: Explain what that means? What are your thoughts.

473
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 9: It's really important to recognize that THHC is just as

474
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 9: much a drug just because it's legal as something like

475
00:31:54,480 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 9: amphetamine or OxyContin, and regular exposure he whires the brain.

476
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 9: And you're not dealing with an adult brain of a

477
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 9: twenty seven year old. You're dealing with the brain of

478
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 9: a child. And if there's been THHC involved since it's eleven, twelve,

479
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 9: thirteen years old, you have what we call arrested emotional development.

480
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 9: So this knowing the difference between right and wrong in

481
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 9: a child, that's insane.

482
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: Doctor William Roney chilling in court, and you've got Kevin

483
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: Camp sitting right beside her, standing by her till the

484
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: bitter end. And you see Curly greg the fourteen year

485
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: old girl giggling in court, trying to stifle a giggle

486
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: in court after she is accused of murdering her mother. So,

487
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: Kevin Camp, that is damning. What do you do when

488
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: you're clients starts laughing during a murder trial?

489
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 8: Well, I think it depends on you know what time

490
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 8: you're you're talking. That was a five day trial. There

491
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 8: were numerous times where she was crying when she was

492
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 8: given or when there were a lot of photos and

493
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 8: things that we had we had talked to her about.

494
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 8: But we had not prepared her for those or we

495
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 8: had not shown them to her, and so when they

496
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 8: came out in court, Uh, she became very very emotional

497
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 8: about that. So when if you're asking, you know, you

498
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 8: want the perception is you want your the people to

499
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 8: believe that that this individual is truly concerned about what's

500
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 8: going on. So when you're you're saying she was giggling,

501
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 8: I would have to put that in perspective of when

502
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 8: that happened. I know it wasn't during any of the

503
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 8: testimony or anything like that. Long trials that are very intense.

504
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: Kevin. Yes, I never want to be a defense attorney,

505
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: but I have to say I really admire you, you know,

506
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: fighting your way out of this paper bag, because she's

507
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: laughing in court in the murder of her mother and

508
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: you actually said that you're defending her, and you said, well,

509
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: it kind of depends on you know, the testimony at

510
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: the moment. Did she not see the gruesome crime scene

511
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: photos of her mother dead? But somehow she manages a giggle.

512
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 8: She does it. She's not giggling then, In fact, when

513
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 8: when those were being shown, she was she was crying.

514
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 8: She was visibly upset when all that was happening as

515
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 8: far as this giggling. I don't know what time frame

516
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 8: we're talking about, but it wasn't. It certainly was not

517
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 8: in those time frames because I know what her reaction was.

518
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: Then the bio dad standing by her and defending her.

519
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: I have just received this motion for a new trial.

520
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: This is SOP standard operating procedure. Once you get once

521
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: the defense gets a guilty verdict or in this case,

522
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: a verdict of not insane or menally ill, you immediately

523
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: file a motion for a new trial and you try

524
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: to convince the judge this just just ruled against you,

525
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: that he she was all wrong and to give us

526
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: a redo. That rarely happens because no judge, even if

527
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: they are wrong, is ever going to admit it. After

528
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: this is denied, then the defense will start a legitimate

529
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: appeal to a higher court. So, Catherine White Newman, what

530
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: happened at the trial?

531
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 7: I believe that the evidence showed that Carly Gregg was

532
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 7: in fact guilty of murder, attempted murder, and tampering with

533
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 7: physical evidence. We heard from doctor Gugliano as well as

534
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 7: doctor Pickett on behalf of the state, who testified that

535
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 7: Carly Gregg was competent to stand trial, and then that

536
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 7: Carly Gregg was not in fact insane at the time.

537
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 7: The judge allowed doctor Andrew Clark to testify on behalf

538
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 7: of the defendant. It's the states argument, and we stand

539
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 7: by this that he actually did not testify to the

540
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 7: proper standard. He did not actually meet the qualifications to

541
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 7: testify as an expert in this case. However, the jury

542
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 7: did get to hear from him. He talked about the

543
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 7: fact that Carly had apparently experienced a disassociated state and

544
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 7: that she blacked out from the time that she let

545
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 7: her dogs out until the time that she came to

546
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 7: in the sewer. Interestingly, doctor Clark said that his opinions

547
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 7: were just hypotheses, and also there were times that Carly

548
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 7: knew right from wrong during some of her actions. And

549
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 7: so we believe the jury got it right. I mean,

550
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 7: these ladies and gentlemen used their common sense and heard

551
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 7: from these experts, and there was just no testimony that

552
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,479
Speaker 7: Carly in fact did not know right from wrong.

553
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: Kevin Camp, you just heard Katherine White Newman just off

554
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: the top of her head spin out so many seemingly

555
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: damning facts. She didn't even have to look at her

556
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: notes for Pete's sake. But Kevin Camp, you are convinced

557
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: at this girl, then fourteen year old Curly is ill,

558
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: that she has some sort of a mental illness. I

559
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: want to hear your defense, because again I do not

560
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: want someone medtally ill thrown in with GP. Tell me

561
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: your best shot.

562
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 8: First and foremost. I would say doctor Clark was a

563
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 8: much more experienced psychiatrist than either of the two states

564
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 8: psychiatrists in this situation. In fact, the psychiatrists they used,

565
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 8: which was a doctor Pickett, this was the first time

566
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 8: that he had ever been qualified as an expert. He

567
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 8: had just gotten his qualifications, I believe back in October.

568
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 8: That being said, doctor Clark went through an extensive valuation

569
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 8: and we ruled out different things so we knew she

570
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 8: was on psychopath There were different tests and different things

571
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 8: that we looked at on that we knew that this

572
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 8: wasn't a panic situation. So then it comes into a

573
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 8: mental illness. We went back and started looking at what

574
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 8: the mental illnesses were, what was going on, uh, things

575
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 8: of that nature. Some of the stuff that I want

576
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 8: to I just want to address this a little bit.

577
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 8: Doctor Clark testified exactly to what McNaughton was. There was

578
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 8: no issue on different standard or anything of that nature.

579
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 8: One of the big issues that came out in the

580
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 8: case is they're actually their h expert. Again, the expert

581
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 8: who doesn't have any experience in this case, did a

582
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 8: diagnosis of Carly Gregg's father without ever seeing him. And

583
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 8: that that's something that from my understanding is you're the

584
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 8: American Medical Association, which this doctor is a part of,

585
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 8: is you don't do that, Okay, if you're you do

586
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 8: not do a value. You do not do diagnosis of people,

587
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 8: especially psychiatry diagnoses of people that you never examine. There's

588
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 8: a rule, it's called the Goldwater rule that comes into play.

589
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 8: That being said, the big issue was whether or not

590
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 8: she was bipolar, and she had not been diagnosed with

591
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 8: bipolar at that time. If there's a heredity, So let me.

592
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: Understand, you're an answer to the question, what instrumental defect

593
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: you're saying bipolar?

594
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 8: Man?

595
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: It depressive? Is that what you're saying is your ailment?

596
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 8: Yes, it goes into that, Yes, it goes into that

597
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 8: disassociated state, and it all it all sort of fits

598
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 8: in together on how that works and that's what uh

599
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 8: if you take, if you if doctor Pickett does there evaluation,

600
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 8: does what he's supposed to, he's going to come to

601
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 8: the same conclusion that doctor Clark did, which that she

602
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 8: was in a manic situation and in that disassociated state

603
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 8: at that floor.

604
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off good

605
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: night for it