Speaker 1: Episode two thirty two, What No One tells You about
Speaker 1: debt Freedom. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll
Speaker 1: learn to save money, embrace simplicity, rights, and liver with
Speaker 1: your life. Here your host Jen and Jill m. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my
Speaker 1: name is Jill, and today we're talking about the cold
Speaker 1: hard truth that nobody wants you to know about debt freedom,
Speaker 1: all the salacious details. Now, it's not going to be
Speaker 1: it's not going to be like negative that freedom is great.
Speaker 1: But after paying off debt between the two of us,
Speaker 1: Jill I paid off seventy eight thousand dollars Jill years
Speaker 1: is fifty six thousand. And there are things people do
Speaker 1: not tell you. There are things the books about paying
Speaker 1: off debt do not tell you. And we want to
Speaker 1: talk about something that we still love being debt free
Speaker 1: for the most part, but we want to open up
Speaker 1: the conversation to say it's not just rainbows and butterflies. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that there isn't a ton of conversation, especially
Speaker 1: for those who might be still in the midst of
Speaker 1: debt pay off, about what it's going to be like.
Speaker 1: I think better preparation for us myself, you Jen would
Speaker 1: have been helpful. I think there's plenty of articles and
Speaker 1: podcasts for the person who is now out of debt
Speaker 1: recognizing okay, yeah, these are some of the things that
Speaker 1: you're going to be facing, but to even start to
Speaker 1: understand that in the midst of debt freedom, and hopefully
Speaker 1: this episode will help to create space and freedom for
Speaker 1: what your debt free journey is looking like, to know
Speaker 1: that not all of them look the same. There is
Speaker 1: space for you to slow down, speed up, change your mind,
Speaker 1: and then help to prepare for what might it be
Speaker 1: like afterwards and what do I want to set my
Speaker 1: sights on for when that does happen, And and we're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna get into it. But before all of that,
Speaker 1: this episode is brought to you by Sweet Tea. We're
Speaker 1: into the hot, hot heat of summer, and there's nothing
Speaker 1: more fitting than to be sponsored by some cold, refreshing
Speaker 1: sweet tea, especially when the frugal friends are coming at
Speaker 1: you with all the tea about the reality of post
Speaker 1: dept freedom, the dirty laundry, the hot goss, the lowdown.
Speaker 1: That's right, the sweet tea of life beyond paying off debt.
Speaker 1: But before we get into that, we also have some
Speaker 1: thirst satisfying sweet tea for you in the form of
Speaker 1: a free e book. Check it out at Frugal Friends
Speaker 1: podcast dot com slash e book to get your free
Speaker 1: copy Rich with the over two hundred money saving tips
Speaker 1: sweet Tea satisfying all the thirsts. Yes, thirst trap for sure,
Speaker 1: but like John said, there's not that much hots, just preparation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if you know, like they're obviously everyone takes an
Speaker 1: extreme view. Well I won't say everyone, but like the
Speaker 1: it's so easy to focus on the extreme views. Pay
Speaker 1: off debt at all costs, don't worry about debt, just invest.
Speaker 1: And there are so many people on the extremes. And
Speaker 1: we're not about extremes, you know, us were about the
Speaker 1: radical middle and so we love debt freedom. We also
Speaker 1: love investing and building wealth, and we love for you
Speaker 1: to be informed about everything behind the scenes of both
Speaker 1: of those and and that's what we're hoping to focus
Speaker 1: on in this episode. If you are in the midst
Speaker 1: of paying off debt or wondering if you should um
Speaker 1: there are plenty of other Frugal Friends episodes you can
Speaker 1: queue up to play after this Uh. Some of the
Speaker 1: most relevant ones to this episode our episode one paying
Speaker 1: off Debt and your Mental Health with Melanie Lockert and
Speaker 1: episode one seventy one should you focus on paying down
Speaker 1: debt right now? So those are two good ones, and
Speaker 1: we've got two good articles for you today, Jill, What
Speaker 1: did you think about these? These so so fantastic again,
Speaker 1: just giving another perspective thing to think about and freedom.
Speaker 1: I think that was the messaging that I got from
Speaker 1: both of these articles. But to start off, this one
Speaker 1: comes from Melody right. It's published on CNBC. Talks about
Speaker 1: after paying off one hundred thousand dollars in three years,
Speaker 1: I changed my strategy on paying down debt and slowed
Speaker 1: down and here's why. And so this person is telling
Speaker 1: their very real life story about a lot of debt
Speaker 1: already having been paid but still more ahead. Something like
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars had yet to be paid off by
Speaker 1: the time this article was written, but giving some examples
Speaker 1: of the way that they shifted their strategy. And I
Speaker 1: love this one quote that the author writes about in
Speaker 1: that in the midst of this debt payoff journey, after
Speaker 1: paying off one hundred thousand dollars, having eighty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: left to go, deciding to trade in that burnout for
Speaker 1: sustainable money objectives. This person described how they were blogging
Speaker 1: about this debt payoff journey and posting pictures of celebration
Speaker 1: with her husband and and yet not talking about some
Speaker 1: of the burnout being experienced. And we know that debt
Speaker 1: payoff hopefully is not a lifetime. It can be a
Speaker 1: very intense season depending on how we approach it, and
Speaker 1: and some of us approach it in with more intensity
Speaker 1: than maybe we need, and again talking about some of
Speaker 1: that freedom. And so halfway through or a little bit
Speaker 1: past the halfway through mark, she decided to not continue
Speaker 1: to burn herself out, sacrifice herself on the altar of
Speaker 1: debt freedom, and implement some more sustainable money objectives. And
Speaker 1: for her she describes what those are. And I think
Speaker 1: ultimately we want to highlight these two show you have
Speaker 1: freedom in the way that you're even debt payoff journey
Speaker 1: looks like well, which will hopefully pay the way for
Speaker 1: freedom in your post debt freedom journey, because these are
Speaker 1: the habits that were forming now for what will be
Speaker 1: implemented in the future. Yeah, I remember being in the
Speaker 1: same place as Melody, so vividly, like we were a
Speaker 1: year into our debt payoff and I felt hopeless. We
Speaker 1: had accomplished so much. We had paid off my entire um.
Speaker 1: I think it was it was fifty thou dollars my
Speaker 1: student loan. We had done so well, and I could
Speaker 1: I celebrated for like ten seconds, and then I could
Speaker 1: not be happy because I knew we had another year
Speaker 1: to go and there was no reason for me to
Speaker 1: have put myself through that. But we were obsessed with
Speaker 1: paying off debt because it was the only strategy for
Speaker 1: personal finance management that we knew. It was the only
Speaker 1: method anyone had told us. Uh, nobody gave us permission
Speaker 1: to slow down. They said, if you slow down, you'll
Speaker 1: quit and you'll be broke your entire life. And that
Speaker 1: just wasn't the case. Nobody told me that that was untrue.
Speaker 1: And so I love that Melody is like being really
Speaker 1: vulnerable with like she made off a hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: in three years, which is insane. Um and then slow down.
Speaker 1: But like people all they want are the stories of
Speaker 1: like I'm completely debt free, Like I paid off a
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a debt in a year, and like
Speaker 1: that's unrealistic. Like those stories like that are not always
Speaker 1: the healthiest. Like I love seeing like, oh, we paid
Speaker 1: off you know, seventy dollars a debt in seven years.
Speaker 1: You know something like that, Like that takes real commitment.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't have to be that doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be the story either. I just don't think those stories
Speaker 1: get enough attention. But yeah, man, I really really saw myself,
Speaker 1: her saying after pulling myself out of a pit of
Speaker 1: anxiety and despair, I felt that so hard. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: need to give ourselves room to catch our breath. It's
Speaker 1: still sticks with me. This would have been so long ago.
Speaker 1: In a conversation with Alison Baggerley from Inspired Budget, where
Speaker 1: she described debt payoff like a road trip. I know
Speaker 1: people love to talk about marathons, and you even said, Jen,
Speaker 1: like a marathon can still be run in a day.
Speaker 1: So this is not that. This is maybe more closely
Speaker 1: to a road trip and what happens on a road
Speaker 1: trip Sometimes we pull over, we take we were on
Speaker 1: a rest stop, We spend the night in a hotel somewhere.
Speaker 1: We we speed up, we slow down, we hit construction,
Speaker 1: like there's so many different things that happened on a
Speaker 1: road trip and recognizing that. And I can't emphasize enough
Speaker 1: that what we do in our debt payoff journey is
Speaker 1: similar to what we will do post debt payoff. Like
Speaker 1: whatever we're establishing now will follow us. It's not that
Speaker 1: hard to make pivots once debt payoff happens. But recognize
Speaker 1: what you're doing to yourself now in debt payoff that
Speaker 1: will be carried with you into the future. The the anxiety,
Speaker 1: the pressures, the burnout. If we continue to blow past ourselves,
Speaker 1: not valuing what's happening inside of ourselves, paying attention to
Speaker 1: what our body is saying we need, what our relationships
Speaker 1: are saying we need. We can't be under the impression
Speaker 1: that that's immediately in the blink of an eye going
Speaker 1: to shift back and now suddenly we're valuing ourselves and
Speaker 1: we're not expecting like high achievement or we're not putting
Speaker 1: these unrealistic pressures on ourselves. The way that we treat
Speaker 1: ourselves in the debt payoff journey will be the way
Speaker 1: that we treat ourselves post up payoff journey. So keeping
Speaker 1: that in mind too, what are we cultivating in this
Speaker 1: process and is it giving room for freedom? Is it
Speaker 1: valuing ourselves the people around us? Is it paying attention
Speaker 1: to what's happening? And is it right for us? Because
Speaker 1: if we're just doing what we think people are telling
Speaker 1: us we need to do, nothing's going to change post
Speaker 1: that payoff. We're just gonna do what other people are
Speaker 1: telling us to do. And whose life are we living?
Speaker 1: So there's also this deeper layer of what are we
Speaker 1: cultivating right now that is aimed at well being? And
Speaker 1: what are we cultivating that we're not gonna want? Well, then,
Speaker 1: if we're not going to want to post step payoff,
Speaker 1: why are we implementing it currently. It's not to say
Speaker 1: that there's not times where we operate in greater levels
Speaker 1: of intensity, but not to set up camp there live
Speaker 1: there in a way that is wiping us out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that leads us to Melody's first tip for us
Speaker 1: is to give yourself room to reevaluate. I remember when
Speaker 1: we started out, we we're deciding whether to use the
Speaker 1: debt avalanche or the debt snowball, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: we've been told we need to use the debt snowball,
Speaker 1: So we have to use the debt snowball and Travis
Speaker 1: is like, I mean, we don't have to. We can
Speaker 1: kind of do whatever we want. And I was like that,
Speaker 1: like blew my my. And I was like what, Like,
Speaker 1: I can't what. I just read this book, like I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if we should deviate, And it
Speaker 1: really taught me like when you're in the beginning stages
Speaker 1: of anything you don't have, it's you don't have to
Speaker 1: think for yourself. You don't know how to think for yourself,
Speaker 1: and so it's okay to follow somebody's instructions to a
Speaker 1: t while you are figuring out how you fit and
Speaker 1: how this fits into your world. But once you get
Speaker 1: a grasp, like all kids, like babies, we do everything
Speaker 1: for them because they don't they don't know how to
Speaker 1: do things. But once they get into toddlers, you've got
Speaker 1: to teach them how to pull their pants up or
Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to potty train. And
Speaker 1: then you got to teach them to use the toilet
Speaker 1: or they're not going to be able to enter kindergarten.
Speaker 1: So you have to do these things kind of before
Speaker 1: they want to be ready. It's the same with you.
Speaker 1: You can follow somebody's advice, but you have to get
Speaker 1: to a point point where you re evaluate whether it
Speaker 1: is right for you. And I I wasn't told I
Speaker 1: had permission to reevaluate, and I wish and it was
Speaker 1: okay in the beginning, because I didn't know how I
Speaker 1: would revaluate. Having been given too many choices and not
Speaker 1: knowing how to choose between them would have led me
Speaker 1: to just not choose any So I'm glad that I
Speaker 1: had something to, you know, cling to, But I did
Speaker 1: not have permission to reevaluate at any point, and really
Speaker 1: I clung to something that was not working for me
Speaker 1: and my mental health for much longer than I should have.
Speaker 1: And that's another one of those tips that can be
Speaker 1: helpful across the board for our whole personhood and with
Speaker 1: the goals that we set. Sometimes we set a goal
Speaker 1: in our twenties that we want to accomplish by our thirties,
Speaker 1: but by the time we reach our thirties, it's irrelevant.
Speaker 1: We've changed, our desires have changed, but sometimes we can
Speaker 1: still feel tethered to what we had set out to do,
Speaker 1: whether it was a career path or an educational goal,
Speaker 1: and we feel obligated to do that thing because well,
Speaker 1: I said it and I wrote it down, and that's
Speaker 1: what I wanted. And I've been aimed at this thing.
Speaker 1: But what about the permission to say I'm different now.
Speaker 1: My desires have changed, my context has changed, my relationships
Speaker 1: have changed, and I have room to say I changed
Speaker 1: my mind on that. That's not my goal anymore. I
Speaker 1: want to make this pivot. There is room for that,
Speaker 1: and I think that's where we can find more freedom
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, that was something that I aimed at,
Speaker 1: then it was worthwhile to aim at. I'm glad I
Speaker 1: set my sights on something, but it's not what I
Speaker 1: want anymore. I know, Jen, you've experienced that in a career.
Speaker 1: I've experienced that in in my career, and and that
Speaker 1: applies to our finances as well. That it's good to
Speaker 1: set your sights on something. Think it's good to say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay off debt and here's the amount of
Speaker 1: time I want to do that in. But as you
Speaker 1: get into it, if things shift and change, we can reevaluate, well,
Speaker 1: where am I at now? How do I want to
Speaker 1: shift and adjust what I had set out to do?
Speaker 1: And for this article, for this our author. It's not
Speaker 1: not paying off debt anymore, it's just going about it
Speaker 1: differently given her now context, And so that leads to
Speaker 1: to the next point that she gives of not being
Speaker 1: afraid to embrace a change in plans. It's the same
Speaker 1: concept to giving yourself room to reevaluate. But then beyond
Speaker 1: the reevaluation, what do I now want to implement that
Speaker 1: the plans can change. We can take a detour on
Speaker 1: this road trip, we can stop overnight somewhere, we can
Speaker 1: change cars, we can do a lot of things. Life
Speaker 1: is not static, it's dynamic, and so room to reevaluate,
Speaker 1: actually plan to reevaluate, set your sights on something. But
Speaker 1: then one year in, how is this working? How is
Speaker 1: this going? Where are my capacities? How am I doing mentally, emotionally, relationally, spiritually?
Speaker 1: All right? If not good? What needs to shift? And
Speaker 1: there is room for that and it should be happening,
Speaker 1: not just oh, there's permission, but let's do this, let's reevaluate.
Speaker 1: Let's change the plan so that we can find ourselves
Speaker 1: on the other end of this, not flat like a
Speaker 1: pancake on the side of the road. Yeah, definitely, and
Speaker 1: we're all for going you know, hot and heavy for
Speaker 1: a period of time. We love no spend challenges, like
Speaker 1: you know, being committed having that one goal is like
Speaker 1: what we say the most effective way to goal set
Speaker 1: and execute is is being focused on one goal at
Speaker 1: a time. But that always comes with reevaluation and being
Speaker 1: open to changing the plan and being open to take
Speaker 1: your foot off the gas if something else is suffering.
Speaker 1: Like I gave myself shingles two months into our debt
Speaker 1: payoff because I was like side hustling NonStop trying to
Speaker 1: get this debt out of my life, and this was
Speaker 1: really two months in and so I my body had
Speaker 1: to force me to change plans. So don't do what
Speaker 1: I did. Just be just don't be afraid to embrace
Speaker 1: a change without your body revolting against you, as to
Speaker 1: get ahead of it. To be proactive rather than reactive
Speaker 1: would be amazing. But there's land mines all over this.
Speaker 1: We'll discover our capacities sometimes because we get wiped out.
Speaker 1: But honor that value that make shifts and don't just
Speaker 1: be like, well all right, I'm just I'm not going
Speaker 1: to change a thing. I'm going to keep going even
Speaker 1: though like this is destroying my my body and my
Speaker 1: physical well being. Yeah, and you're one goal can still
Speaker 1: be paying off debt while you take the gas off
Speaker 1: to save for the gosh, they said we needed a
Speaker 1: new mattress. Instead we were lamenting a out. How that
Speaker 1: money could you know have paid off a student loan?
Speaker 1: And so like, don't do that. Don't like sacrifice your
Speaker 1: health and well being to put money towards debt. So
Speaker 1: be willing to take the money that you need and
Speaker 1: put it in other places while still having your primary
Speaker 1: focus be paying off debt. You can funnel money away
Speaker 1: to your rath i ra every month and invest and
Speaker 1: get those years of compound interest while still having your
Speaker 1: singular primary focus your main financial focus be paying off debt.
Speaker 1: The things that we are being told are mutually exclusive
Speaker 1: are not actually mutually exclusive. We live in this ecosystem
Speaker 1: of financial choices that can exist together even when some
Speaker 1: people may be saying that they cannot. Ecosystem of financial choices. Yes,
Speaker 1: jen mm hmm yeah, so uh, do you have anything
Speaker 1: else to say about this wonderful article? Thanks for the freedom?
Speaker 1: Yes um. The author Melody Robinson she Um is on
Speaker 1: Instagram at broke on Purpose and she's really great so
Speaker 1: definitely give her her a follow and we'll jump into
Speaker 1: our next article, which is life after debt when you
Speaker 1: stop paying down balances and start building wealth. And I
Speaker 1: picked this one because I had no concept of building wealth.
Speaker 1: I thought paying off debt was building wealth and it
Speaker 1: is not. So I, um, yeah, I really didn't understand
Speaker 1: the difference. So I was very shocked to realize that
Speaker 1: it was about investing and doing other things. It's a
Speaker 1: it's a good aim, it's a great financial move, but
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Jen, it's not wealth building. One of
Speaker 1: the things that I appreciate at the very beginning of
Speaker 1: this article and felt very seen this. This resonates with
Speaker 1: my experiences after the debt payoff, this question of what
Speaker 1: is the best use of my available cash flow and
Speaker 1: acknowledging that answering that question can be quite intimidating and overwhelming.
Speaker 1: And I think we've mentioned this on other podcasts episodes
Speaker 1: before as well. But once we get off of this
Speaker 1: singular goal, and that was that was what it was
Speaker 1: for me, was a singular goal. Now I'm realizing I
Speaker 1: could have had freedom to be doing and working on
Speaker 1: other things I didn't uh for better or worse. I
Speaker 1: do wish that there had been some savings alongside that goal,
Speaker 1: but hindsights twenty and so that as difficult as that
Speaker 1: was and as much time, energy, attention focus that took,
Speaker 1: there wasn't a whole lot of thought that needed to
Speaker 1: go into it other than problem solving how can I
Speaker 1: pay this off as quickly as possible versus what then
Speaker 1: needs to come into place of saving, investing, retirement, And
Speaker 1: that can feel so beyond me and probably the typical
Speaker 1: person's understanding of finances. That feels next level intimidating, overwhelming,
Speaker 1: because now we're getting into conversations about stocks and tax
Speaker 1: benefits and retirement and future and so many other terms
Speaker 1: that sometimes it can cause us to just be like, well,
Speaker 1: I did the debt payoff thing, Okay, that's that, and
Speaker 1: not think beyond that. So I appreciate how this article
Speaker 1: is encouraging us to think beyond that, even in the
Speaker 1: midst of debt payoff, of how will I approach this
Speaker 1: once I reach that point? Yeah. I love how he
Speaker 1: says in life after debt, you're more empowered with your
Speaker 1: money and in control of what you can accomplish in
Speaker 1: your life. And I think that's a great foundation. Being
Speaker 1: debt free makes building wealth a lot easier. So the
Speaker 1: article then goes into talking about the three options that
Speaker 1: are really before us when paying off debt. Spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: not all of them are necessarily what we want to
Speaker 1: be doing. What we'll get into that so once we
Speaker 1: become debt free, and again, this is something for us
Speaker 1: to be considering even if we're still in the debt
Speaker 1: payoff journey, because this this will inevitably become a part
Speaker 1: of your reality. So thinking about it now ahead of
Speaker 1: time is great. We've got option one, which is lifestyle creep.
Speaker 1: Just let let all the things that you ever wanted
Speaker 1: to do happen. You don't have to worry about debt
Speaker 1: payoff anymore, so just live the life that you wanted
Speaker 1: to live. That's that's one option some of us do that.
Speaker 1: This option, too, is to allocate that money to other
Speaker 1: savings goals, just kind of making a really quick, kind
Speaker 1: of mindless I'm not using that word in a bad way,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily considering all of the options, but just
Speaker 1: immediately shifting whatever money you had been putting towards debt
Speaker 1: to some sort of savings goal. Seamless. Yeah, a seamless transition,
Speaker 1: just all right, five dollars was going to this, So
Speaker 1: now five dollars is going to that, and I don't
Speaker 1: need to think about it anymore. And the third option
Speaker 1: being to relax, take a pause, and do some as
Speaker 1: they call spring cleaning financially, to kind of re evaluate
Speaker 1: what do I want to do with this money or
Speaker 1: now that I am debt free, that question of what
Speaker 1: what's the best use of this, but giving space to
Speaker 1: relax and take time. So those are the three options
Speaker 1: ahead of us, and he kind of goes into, well,
Speaker 1: what what is the best option and how do we
Speaker 1: want to react and respond. Obviously, one option one lifestyle creep.
Speaker 1: That's not a great option because it's gonna be really
Speaker 1: hard to come back from maybe moving out of a
Speaker 1: roommate situation and buying your own house and now getting
Speaker 1: a luxury vehicle and going on all the expensive vacations
Speaker 1: and buying all the gadgets. There's there's almost going to
Speaker 1: be no return from doing all of the things and
Speaker 1: never saying no to yourself. So that's we do want
Speaker 1: to avoid that. But then number two, oh, number two, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one is the one where I think most people
Speaker 1: get caught up. And I believe number two is the
Speaker 1: reason for the rise of the financial independence movement is
Speaker 1: that we have so many people and myself included, so
Speaker 1: many people paying off debt at this feverish rate. They
Speaker 1: get done and it's like, you've got this debt payoff hangover.
Speaker 1: You don't know what to do, so in order to
Speaker 1: make the pain away, you just keep drinking, which is
Speaker 1: a strategy for dealing with hangovers. And as you probably
Speaker 1: could fit like anticipate, it's not the healthiest one, but
Speaker 1: this is the one most people go with with money
Speaker 1: is instead of reevaluating, we just keep going full force
Speaker 1: at something else. And that's something else tends to be
Speaker 1: usually investing for retirement. So I mean, even with buying
Speaker 1: a house, that goal ends, you know, eventually when you
Speaker 1: buy the house, but investing never has to end. So
Speaker 1: that and we did that. That's exactly what we did
Speaker 1: when we stopped, when we finished paying off our debt,
Speaker 1: we already had bought a house, and we just went
Speaker 1: hard on investing without asking why. With asking why, they
Speaker 1: were just like, oh, if you invest fifty of your income,
Speaker 1: you can retire early. Cool. That sounds like fun, but
Speaker 1: like I didn't ask why or if that's what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do. I just I just did it. And
Speaker 1: it's not the worst thing. And the author of the
Speaker 1: article even says on paper, logically, this probably is the
Speaker 1: best option. Just allocate that money towards savings and building wealth.
Speaker 1: But what we're saying is that can lead to ongoing
Speaker 1: and continued burnout doing things that might not actually align
Speaker 1: with your goals and values, never actually giving thought to
Speaker 1: but what do I want to do with this money,
Speaker 1: and and really not giving time to pause and celebrate
Speaker 1: and reflect and look back and reevaluate and change the plan.
Speaker 1: So again, you're not doing the worst thing. In the
Speaker 1: long run. Allocating money to other savings goals is better
Speaker 1: than lifestyle creep for talking overall benefit to us. But
Speaker 1: there are some things that can happen that are not
Speaker 1: beneficial for us if we're not being mindful about the
Speaker 1: next steps beyond debt payoff, which is why they then
Speaker 1: argue step three is really the way to go in relaxing,
Speaker 1: giving some time to rest, pause, reflect, look at our
Speaker 1: finances and decide what's going to be best for us,
Speaker 1: and then keep going. And my estimation, it's kind of
Speaker 1: the blend between one and two. It's not full fledged
Speaker 1: lifestyle creep. It is some celebration and reward with boundaries
Speaker 1: on it and then allocating money in a way that
Speaker 1: makes sense for us. Yeah, it is the radical middle. Like,
Speaker 1: it's not going all the way to lifestyle creep, and
Speaker 1: it's not going all the way to you know, saving
Speaker 1: seventy of your income. It's it's taking and that is
Speaker 1: what we should be celebrating more. I see the I
Speaker 1: see a lot of people on Instagram, which is one
Speaker 1: of the reasons I'm not on Instagram much anymore. Um
Speaker 1: just like posting numbers, and people while they're paying off
Speaker 1: debt really like that. And then the person pays off
Speaker 1: debt and they're like, oh, well now I have to
Speaker 1: keep posting something. And so they're posting their investing numbers,
Speaker 1: and then once they get burnt out, they stop posting
Speaker 1: all together. I see that all the time, and I
Speaker 1: think we just need to celebrate rest and relaxation. We
Speaker 1: need to celebrate goal transition and reevaluation, and we need
Speaker 1: to celebrate that for ourselves and in other people and
Speaker 1: and just make that more normal. Yeah, tethered to something again,
Speaker 1: not the lifestyle creep. But maybe that one month's worth
Speaker 1: of money that had been going to debt payoff can
Speaker 1: go to a celebratory thing. It's not without boundaries, it's
Speaker 1: not going wild. It's a set amount of money that
Speaker 1: you are giving your self permission to say, I'm going
Speaker 1: to go out to a really nice meal, or I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take a weekend trip, or I'm going to buy
Speaker 1: myself some some new clothing new to me, even if
Speaker 1: it's from second hand. Whatever. It is giving yourself time
Speaker 1: to celebrate. I think we don't do that enough. And
Speaker 1: I love this quote attached to this approach. What's right
Speaker 1: for you does not necessarily mean the objectively right financial answer,
Speaker 1: at least not every single time you make a financial decision.
Speaker 1: And again the freedom that is attached to that that
Speaker 1: even if something makes sense on paper, that you just
Speaker 1: you keep paying off your debt until it's gone. You
Speaker 1: never make any changes. Then you allocate that money to
Speaker 1: this next thing, and you never make any shifts or changes.
Speaker 1: That's robotic thinking. We're not robots, we are not limit lists,
Speaker 1: and our capacities. Life shifts and changes, and we need
Speaker 1: to make room for that. And recognizing that even if
Speaker 1: something makes sense on paper logically, if it doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense for you, if it's not right for you, and
Speaker 1: you're given contexts and circumstances, it's okay to work around
Speaker 1: that as long as there's thought and planning and right
Speaker 1: boundary lines set around it. Again, that freedom and permission. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we're not saying to take indefinite pauses on paying
Speaker 1: off debt. Like we love being debt free. We love
Speaker 1: the accomplishment of paying off debt, and we love what
Speaker 1: it's done for making it easier for us to pursue
Speaker 1: other financial goals. For it, for allowing us to be
Speaker 1: able to step back, rest, refresh, reset. Without debt, we're
Speaker 1: able to make clearer decisions on what we want from
Speaker 1: our future, what we want financially. Debt freedom really has
Speaker 1: given us that. But I would gladly go back and like,
Speaker 1: we paid off our debt in twenty three months so
Speaker 1: I can say, oh, yeah, we paid off seventy eight
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of debt in less than two years. I'd
Speaker 1: gladly give up that statement um and say we paid
Speaker 1: off seventy eight thousand dollars in three years. It's just
Speaker 1: as impressive. I would gladly even add a few months
Speaker 1: to that to have enjoyed the journey more. It was
Speaker 1: just so miserable. I wanted to get out of it
Speaker 1: so quickly, and that made it more miserable. And so
Speaker 1: we don't want that experience for you. If you are
Speaker 1: paying it off and you are loving it, and you're
Speaker 1: paying it off fast, then we want that for you.
Speaker 1: But we don't want you to be miserable because you
Speaker 1: can pay off your debt in two years, but your
Speaker 1: third year isn't promised, your fourth year isn't promised, and
Speaker 1: so live for today while being responsible for tomorrow. Is
Speaker 1: one final thing I want to highlight in this article
Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, Jen, But it's interesting because it's
Speaker 1: similar to an approach within my day job. I eight
Speaker 1: will often help people plan and implement sabbatical, this kind
Speaker 1: of extended, intentional time of rest after a certain amount
Speaker 1: of time, usually in some really difficult work. I know
Speaker 1: sabbatical is taken by a variety of careers. It's quite
Speaker 1: common for people in some certain settings and has to
Speaker 1: do with the weight of responsibility. And I think this
Speaker 1: is a very clear pivot point or pause point when
Speaker 1: debt is paid off, however you got there, hopefully you
Speaker 1: found freedom along the way and moving into something else.
Speaker 1: It's a really clear, definitive opportunity to these words rest, refresh, reset.
Speaker 1: It's actually so similar to when I help people go
Speaker 1: through sabbatical. It's a three phase model and it's rest, refresh,
Speaker 1: re entry. So just that last are is different from
Speaker 1: what's in this article, but I'm seeing so much overlap here,
Speaker 1: and it makes sense because it's congruent with where people
Speaker 1: might find themselves after a hard push in their career
Speaker 1: now needing a sabbatical and not not just a time where, oh,
Speaker 1: let me just sleep. There's a lot of intentionality to
Speaker 1: that time, but it's best practice for us to do this,
Speaker 1: to take time to rest, refresh. There's going to be
Speaker 1: something at each stage of that what rest looks like,
Speaker 1: what refreshment looks like, and what resetting looks like. But
Speaker 1: giving ourselves that space is going to set us up
Speaker 1: best for what comes next, and we're going to feel
Speaker 1: able and equipped to more effectively step into that next
Speaker 1: season versus just plowing through and pushing past and moving
Speaker 1: beyond and going to the next thing and never pausing
Speaker 1: and reflecting. There's so much more opportunity and personal growth
Speaker 1: and reflection that can happen if we rest, refresh, reset,
Speaker 1: and then get back into things with what this next
Speaker 1: season is. Mm hmm. I love that and what I
Speaker 1: also love to follow up any any rest, refresh, reentry
Speaker 1: is just good old fashion. I can't think of a
Speaker 1: word that starts with our, but the week that's right,
Speaker 1: It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 1: Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Speaker 1: Maybe you paid off your mortgage, Maybe your car died,
Speaker 1: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 1: U bills, Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton, this is the bill
Speaker 1: of the week. Hi, Jen and Jill. My name's Christine.
Speaker 1: I'm calling from Salt Lake City, Utah, and I'm calling
Speaker 1: to share my bill of the week. On Monday, it
Speaker 1: was Valentine's Day and I gifted myself with paying off
Speaker 1: my car loan. So that was super exciting. It was
Speaker 1: a little bit over eleven thousand dollars and it feels
Speaker 1: so good to have that done and not have that
Speaker 1: bill anymore. UM. It's also extra exciting because just a
Speaker 1: month ago, on January fifteenth, I got married and after Um.
Speaker 1: Going through our very generous gifts and sorting through all
Speaker 1: of our bills from the wedding, we had some money
Speaker 1: leftover that we were able to put towards the loan.
Speaker 1: And not only are we um completely paid off for
Speaker 1: the wedding and now this car, but we are actually
Speaker 1: debt free now. So super exciting and a great way
Speaker 1: to start this new chapter of our life as a
Speaker 1: married couple. Oh, Christine, congratulation and that is amazing. Also,
Speaker 1: thank you for letting everyone know that we are six
Speaker 1: months behind on sharing bills, but we are so glad
Speaker 1: we got to yours. Christine, this is so exciting. And
Speaker 1: not only paying off a car loan of over eleven
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, which is a lot to pay off, but
Speaker 1: congratulations on your marriage and how amazing to find yourself
Speaker 1: in a place of being in the black post wedding
Speaker 1: and being able to put some of that money towards
Speaker 1: debt payoff and savings goals, and how congruent with what
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, which it's Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: there's so many bills all in one, and what an
Speaker 1: exciting time that was six months ago for you. But
Speaker 1: we're still within the year, which is great, and we
Speaker 1: don't stop calling in your bills. Yeah, I just know
Speaker 1: that if you haven't heard years from m March or April,
Speaker 1: that we just haven't gotten there yet yet. And if
Speaker 1: you do want to submit a bill, if you're not
Speaker 1: concerned about our backlog, visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: slash bill, leave us your bill. We will get to
Speaker 1: it in six to eight months from now. And now
Speaker 1: it's time for coming round. So today in our Vulnerability
Speaker 1: lightning Storm, we're going to talk about what's something that
Speaker 1: you experienced or didn't experience after paying off debt that
Speaker 1: no one told you about? You go first, I will
Speaker 1: go first. Again. I want to restate I love being
Speaker 1: debt free. I love the freedom, the mental freedom that
Speaker 1: it brings. So there was like some mental trouble doing it,
Speaker 1: but the but the effort was worth it for sure.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have wanted to drag it out for a
Speaker 1: you know, for ten years. But I will say that
Speaker 1: nobody told me that the level of hustle is great
Speaker 1: for a short period of time, um, like a year
Speaker 1: or two, but it is ultimately unhealthy and unsustainable, like
Speaker 1: just like that, like the depth payoff hangover, like I
Speaker 1: was saying, like you drink to keep the hangover at bay,
Speaker 1: Like that's really what I felt like I was doing.
Speaker 1: I just didn't have a clear plan for what to
Speaker 1: do next. And I wish I had had somebody telling me, like,
Speaker 1: this is the whole picture, it's all important, um. And
Speaker 1: then just whatever you're working on at each time, that's
Speaker 1: the most important, but it's not at the sacrifice of
Speaker 1: everything else, your whole personhood, um. And I was. We
Speaker 1: were obsessed, and it was great for a short period
Speaker 1: of time. We did it for two years. God, I
Speaker 1: don't think I could do it any longer. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: recommend people do what we were doing for longer than
Speaker 1: we did it. But the hustle was unsustainable and unhealthy.
Speaker 1: And when I finally did it, took a seizure and
Speaker 1: getting laid off, not in those orders. The layoff was first,
Speaker 1: then the seizure, and then several weeks later was having
Speaker 1: my son. That's what it took to make me stop,
Speaker 1: rest and reevaluate. And like I said, don't let unemployment,
Speaker 1: health problems and a new baby for the combination of
Speaker 1: the three. Don't do it like I did, Just do
Speaker 1: it on your own. Yeah, I mean it's indicative of you,
Speaker 1: your personality, your tenacity, but you're not unique in needing
Speaker 1: permission to reevaluate and change the situation. And it stinks
Speaker 1: that it took that much to give you the permission.
Speaker 1: And hopefully for anyone listening, this can be a cautionary
Speaker 1: tale of pay attention because at the end of it,
Speaker 1: not caring for yourself well, it can be detrimental in
Speaker 1: a variety of ways. But Jen, I have seen shifts
Speaker 1: that you've made as a result of that, Like you
Speaker 1: have talked about some of your learning since that debt
Speaker 1: payoff journey, and you really have implemented I think it
Speaker 1: took experiencing some of those things to find the podcast.
Speaker 1: We were running the podcast while all this happened. We
Speaker 1: had been doing this for over a year, so if
Speaker 1: you listen to episodes from our first year, like I
Speaker 1: still had not come to this realization yet. So for me,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that and that I wasn't told.
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to say this is on other people,
Speaker 1: like other people should have told me or warned me things,
Speaker 1: but just my own understanding ignorance conversations, I suppose just
Speaker 1: things I wasn't aware of, and that's okay. We we
Speaker 1: don't know what we don't know, and we learn along
Speaker 1: the way. But I think in looking back at what
Speaker 1: my debt payoff journey was and what I realized post that,
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things I think I didn't realize
Speaker 1: in the debt payoff journey that post debt payoff was
Speaker 1: going to be this world of unknown and lots more
Speaker 1: questions to answer. I think I really did view that
Speaker 1: once I get to that point, it's just coasting and
Speaker 1: and the world is going to be a better place.
Speaker 1: I think I had this like fantastical view and again,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Jen, there are some amazing benefits, Like
Speaker 1: I am still very celebratory and grateful about debt freedom,
Speaker 1: but it is not the rainbows and butterflies and unicorns
Speaker 1: that I think I thought that really more work was
Speaker 1: waiting for me on the other side of increasing my
Speaker 1: financial literacy, understanding what my goals are now, what is
Speaker 1: the best thing to do with this money? Again, I
Speaker 1: was faced with that question. I didn't know that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't know how to answer that, and so coming to
Speaker 1: that other side was like, ah, crap, I thought that
Speaker 1: I would have arrived, but I'm not arrived. There's so
Speaker 1: much more like it is in some ways only now
Speaker 1: just begun. Which again there's gratitude in that because there's
Speaker 1: freedom of choice, but that freedom of choice can feel
Speaker 1: debility tating. I also didn't realize that it's not the
Speaker 1: epitome of accomplishment, which I think that message had been
Speaker 1: given to me and I had embraced, and it ties
Speaker 1: into this concept that I have since learned that debt
Speaker 1: is neutral, and Jen, you've helped me to see that.
Speaker 1: I think I really did how they Debt is bad,
Speaker 1: Debt is shameful. No one should ever be in debt.
Speaker 1: I wish that I hadn't been, but now I know better,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to dig my way out. And once
Speaker 1: I accomplished this, I'm gonna like I can look down
Speaker 1: on other people. Not not entirely, but it kind of
Speaker 1: like there's that messaging around it of this is the
Speaker 1: epitome of accomplishment, like all right, it's okay. If you
Speaker 1: got into it, you didn't know any better, but now
Speaker 1: get yourself out of it. And now I'm realizing, no,
Speaker 1: that's debt is neutral. And since debt freedom. I have
Speaker 1: chosen to take on debt and that had to be
Speaker 1: a shift of mindset. Debt in my house, like my
Speaker 1: house is not paid off. I've taken out alone to
Speaker 1: do that. I don't have to be ashamed for that.
Speaker 1: So I think that this concept of oh, once you're
Speaker 1: debt free, never ever get yourself in that position again. Well, now,
Speaker 1: in some ways I am choosing to get myself into
Speaker 1: that position again, and I'm okay with it. But I
Speaker 1: feel armed and equipped to now vigate it in a
Speaker 1: way that I'm very mindful of and intentional with, and
Speaker 1: it is beneficial to me as I also accomplished these
Speaker 1: other goals. So lots of learnings. Yeah, definitely that the
Speaker 1: debt is neutral thing was a big thing for me too,
Speaker 1: Like all like, some people are adamant that there is
Speaker 1: good debt and some people are adamant that there is
Speaker 1: only bad debt. All debt is what you like. Your
Speaker 1: purpose for the debt is neutral. What's uh growing or
Speaker 1: limiting is how you use it. But debt has no morals.
Speaker 1: So thanks so much for listening. I hope that if
Speaker 1: you are paying off debt that this gave you hope
Speaker 1: encouragement perspective, and like we ask that you not take
Speaker 1: our word for it, that you are only inspired to
Speaker 1: do your own thinking about what's right for your life.
Speaker 1: Like we said, if you're all in and you're loving
Speaker 1: it and be all in. But if you're all in
Speaker 1: and you're miserable, like it's okay to pivot. It's you
Speaker 1: have permission. And so we just hope that we are
Speaker 1: inspiring you um outside of the boxes that may be
Speaker 1: stifling you. And if you want more of that, then
Speaker 1: we have a private community where we do monthly challenges
Speaker 1: and inspire people to think, you know, think bigger about
Speaker 1: what they're capable of. And we want to congratulate one
Speaker 1: of our members, Ashley. She says, after the Spending Symposium,
Speaker 1: which is the online of that we had in July,
Speaker 1: taught me so much and gave me so much motivation.
Speaker 1: My husband has never felt strongly about budgeting or our
Speaker 1: financial future, but seeing just how excited I was after
Speaker 1: listening to the symposium sessions, he has gotten a little
Speaker 1: more on board with my goals and plan baby steps. Uh.
Speaker 1: In the past three weeks, I've been able to get
Speaker 1: an emergency fund started up to seven dollars pay cash
Speaker 1: for our pups space surgery, join this membership and make
Speaker 1: some awesome negotiations on my consumer debt payoff plans. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited and finally feeling that getting out of debt
Speaker 1: maybe possible. Thanks so much, Jen and Jill for creating
Speaker 1: such a wonderful podcast doing all you do. I don't
Speaker 1: know that I could have ever moved in this positive
Speaker 1: direction if I hadn't stubled upon your podcast. So excited
Speaker 1: for this journey and glad to be a member of
Speaker 1: this club. Congratulations Ashley, what amazing steps you're taking and
Speaker 1: if I can say, those are not baby steps. You
Speaker 1: have great drives in a very short amount of time
Speaker 1: and keep going at a sustainable pace. Yes, so thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. If you want to check out our monthly membership,
Speaker 1: head to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash club. You
Speaker 1: see what challenge we have coming up next, See you
Speaker 1: next week. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Sirianni.