1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 2: This is the Boomberg Day a Q podcast. Good morning,

3
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,520
Speaker 2: It's Thursday, the twelfth of February. I'm Caroline Hepkeit in London.

4
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,120
Speaker 1: And I'm Stephen Carolin Brussels. Coming up today. Another investor

5
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,079
Speaker 1: cuts ties with the global ports giant DP World over

6
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 1: the CEO's alleged ties to Jeffrey Epstein. As the fallout

7
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 1: from the release of documents grows.

8
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 2: The UK Prime Minister Kis Starmer calls on Manchester United

9
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 2: co owner Jim Ratcliffe to apologize after he said Britain

10
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,560
Speaker 2: has been colonized by immigrants.

11
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 1: Plus a rare and detailed view into the mechanics of

12
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: an alleged multimillion euro insider deal revealed in the trial

13
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,159
Speaker 1: of two traders in Paris.

14
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 3: Let's start with a round up of our top stories.

15
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,320
Speaker 1: A UK government owned investment firm has halted its relationship

16
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,320
Speaker 1: with global ports giant DP World over the CEO's alleged

17
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 1: ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Comes after Canada's second largest pension

18
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 1: fund also suspended future investment plans with Dpworld. With Maury

19
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,000
Speaker 1: Here's Boomberg's crispest.

20
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 4: Both firms took the decision after emails released by the

21
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 4: US Justice Department and others obtained by Bloomberg News last

22
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 4: summer showed that DP World CEO Sultan Ahmed bin Salaam

23
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,959
Speaker 4: corresponded with Epstein for more than a decade after Epstein's

24
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 4: jail sentence in two thousand and eight on charges that

25
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,199
Speaker 4: included procuring a minor for prostitution. A spokesperson for DP

26
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 4: World wasn't immediately available for comment. Meanwhile, neither Bin Salaam

27
00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,760
Speaker 4: nor representatives for DP World responded to repeated requests for

28
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,040
Speaker 4: comments on a Bloomberg News investigation about the email exchanges

29
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 4: in London, Chris Pitt Bloomberg Radio.

30
00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 2: The latest revelations come as the fallout from the release

31
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,760
Speaker 2: of the Epstein files continues to reach across governments, companies,

32
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 2: and universities. US Attorney General Pam Bondi yesterday revealed that

33
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 2: there are pending investigations by the US Justice Department related

34
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 2: to the probe of the late disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

35
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 2: During a congressional hearing on Wednesday, Bondie said in a

36
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,040
Speaker 2: response to a question about whether there were any additional

37
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 2: Epstein related prosecutions, planned that we have pending investigations in

38
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 2: our office, but did not elaborate, and during that same hearing,

39
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,360
Speaker 2: New York Congressman Jerry Nadlers tried to ask BONDI, how

40
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 2: many men connected with Epstein have been indicted?

41
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 5: How many perpetrators are you even investigating?

42
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 4: First you showed it, I find how many have you?

43
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I'm going to answer the question.

44
00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 3: Answer my question.

45
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 4: I'm going to answer the question the way I want

46
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 4: to answer the question.

47
00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 3: You answer the question.

48
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get in the gutter with these people.

49
00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to answer the question, how many of you?

50
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 2: The exchange between Nadler and Palm Pam Bondie came as

51
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,640
Speaker 2: Columbia University said that it admitted a student to its

52
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 2: dental school via what it called irregular process that coincided

53
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 2: with fundraising solicitations by former faculty and alumni to disgrace

54
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 2: financi Jeffrey Epstein. That revelation came after Bloomberg reported on

55
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 2: a year's long chain of communication between Epstein's camp and

56
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 2: senior members of the Columbia dental faculty.

57
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: The Republican led US House of Representatives, as past legislation

58
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 1: named at ending President Trump's tariffs on Canada. The move

59
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 1: signals growing anxiety over the White House's economic agenda ahead

60
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,160
Speaker 1: of midterm election campaigns that are expected to focus on

61
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 1: affordability issues. President Trump can still veto the bill, meaning

62
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: the vote was largely symbolic and a way to get

63
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 1: lawmakers on the record regarding their support for tariffs on

64
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: Canadian goods. Here's our senior US Government editor, Derek Wallbank.

65
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 6: These votes sort of represent an increase in political pressure

66
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,480
Speaker 6: on the President to change course just months before the

67
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 6: midterm elections. They also, though, represent a big difficulty for

68
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,640
Speaker 6: some swing district Republicans whose districts may be heavily affected

69
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 6: by tariffs, but who have to face a very real

70
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 6: question about whether or not they want to cross the

71
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 6: President on his signature issue.

72
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,159
Speaker 1: Derek Weelbank was speaking of sources of Tel Bloomberg. President

73
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 1: Trump is privately considering quitting the US Mexico Canada Trade

74
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,159
Speaker 1: Pact that he signs during his first term.

75
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 2: Now, the British Prime Minister has labeled comments on immigration

76
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 2: made by Manchester United's co owner Jim Ratcliffe as offensive

77
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 2: and wrong.

78
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:44,840
Speaker 3: A spokesperson for No.

79
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 2: Ten also called on the billionaire boss of Enios Chemicals

80
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,400
Speaker 2: to apologize for the remarks made during an interview with

81
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 2: Sky News. During the conversation, Ratcliffe said that the UK

82
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,039
Speaker 2: couldn't sustain its current population growth.

83
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 7: You can't have an economy with nine million people on

84
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 7: benefits and huge levels of immigrants coming in. I mean

85
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 7: that the UK has been colonized. It's costing too much money.

86
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 7: It will cause the UKO has been colonized by immigrants, really,

87
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 7: isn't it. I mean the population of the UK is

88
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 7: fifty eight million in twenty twenty, now it's seventy million.

89
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 2: In that interview with Sky News, Jim Ratcliffe went on

90
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 2: to argue that Kirs Darman needs to make difficult decisions

91
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 2: to get the UK back on track. Data from the

92
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 2: Office for National Statistics estimates the UK population in mid

93
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five was sixty nine point four million, almost

94
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,600
Speaker 2: three million higher than in twenty twenty. Several managers the

95
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,279
Speaker 2: United Supporters Clubs have condemned the comments, as well as

96
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 2: the Kick it Out campaign against discrimination in sports.

97
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 1: The leaders of France and Germany are at odds over

98
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 1: a Made in Europe push across the EU that says

99
00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 1: European leaders are gathering in rural Belgium to discuss their

100
00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,839
Speaker 1: economic challenges. Bloomberg tea at of Bio has more.

101
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 8: We have to preserve and define by design European content.

102
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,599
Speaker 8: Those were the words of French President Emmanuel Macran to

103
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 8: a summit of business leaders as he's urging EU countries

104
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,919
Speaker 8: to prioritize buying from within the bloc in strategic sectors.

105
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,160
Speaker 8: But his Made in Europe agenda has a significant opponent.

106
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 8: Germany's Chancellor has worn the approach could be too narrow,

107
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 8: arguing that European preference rules should only be used as

108
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 8: a last resort. Friedrich Mertz's remarks at the same event

109
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 8: illustrate the divisions going into today's European leaders retreat on competitiveness. Meanwhile,

110
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 8: the UK's Rachel Reeves has appealed for any Made in

111
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 8: Europe law to be broadened to include like minded countries

112
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,360
Speaker 8: outside the EU. In London, he were at a bioblion

113
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 8: Berg Radio.

114
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,720
Speaker 2: WhatsApp says that Russia has tried to fully block its

115
00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 2: encrypted messaging service in the country. WhatsApp, which is owned

116
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 2: by Meta, said in a statement on Wednesday that it's

117
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 2: trying to keep more than one hundred million Russian users connected.

118
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 2: The Russian government is trying to drive the adoption of

119
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 2: a new state sponsored app called Max, modeled on China's

120
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 2: we Chat, while it is also trying to choke off

121
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 2: access to other foreign owned services, including Telegram. Those are

122
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 2: some of our top stories for you this morning. In

123
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 2: terms of the markets, Asian equities have had a huge

124
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 2: impressive start to the year in terms of the rally

125
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 2: that we've seen. The costpy continues that today up by

126
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 2: two point seven percent, the topics also climbing by eight

127
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 2: tenths of one percent, the Japanese yen strengthening against the dollar.

128
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 2: There's a real sort of by Japan moment, it seems. Meanwhile,

129
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 2: AI taking a bite out of more industries, including US

130
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 2: real estate names and Dasso Systems yesterday in Europe. Very

131
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,520
Speaker 2: hot US jobs report yesterday means that trades are pricing

132
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 2: in a rakeup from the FED now in July, so

133
00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,840
Speaker 2: not until then. And a number of earnings out today

134
00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 2: ab im Beev, Siemens and Mercedes benz Ziemen's actually raising

135
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 2: its outlook, so a sort of validation for Roland Bush's

136
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,880
Speaker 2: push to reshape the company. Mercedes Benz expects margins to

137
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 2: remain under pressure this year.

138
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 3: Those are the markets in a moment.

139
00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 1: More on the latest on how revelations in the Epstein

140
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 1: files are reverberating across the corporate world. Plus a court

141
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 1: case in Paris reveals rare insight into the mechanics of

142
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 1: an alleged multimillion euro insider trading scheme. But another story

143
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,800
Speaker 1: that we've been reading first this morning, on the question

144
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 1: of imitations, copies, counterfeits. Is it flattery or is it frustrating?

145
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 1: Felix Salmon has been writing about this for Bloomberg Pursuits.

146
00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,440
Speaker 1: He points to the long tradition of artists copying slash

147
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 1: being inspired by one another through history, and the value

148
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 1: that we now place on reproductions that are very old,

149
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 1: and he says that as we transition from a century

150
00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 1: that was dominated by the US to one dominated by China,

151
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 1: the world will have to start grappling with its attitude

152
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,440
Speaker 1: toward copies and fakes. They're far more accepted the in

153
00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 1: Asia than they are necessarily in the West. Perhaps that's

154
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,400
Speaker 1: the attitude we should be adopting.

155
00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, I'm more interested in handbags.

156
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,880
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, than art, and that apparently if you have

157
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 2: fake handbags that, according to a professor who've done research

158
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 2: into this, luxury knockoffs actually mean that consumers want to

159
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,400
Speaker 2: spend more on the original.

160
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 3: Chadn't realized.

161
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like, I don't have a problem with having

162
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 1: prints of artwork on my walls at home rather than

163
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 1: necessarily everything being original either. I mean, if you like

164
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,199
Speaker 1: the picture, you like the picture, which is sort of

165
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 1: the element of a two. Felix always very intellectual in

166
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:37,560
Speaker 1: the way that he, of course looks at these issues

167
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 1: as well. He quotes the artist Eric Duringer as well,

168
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,920
Speaker 1: who notes that the word copy comes from the Latin copia,

169
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 1: which is the root of cornucopia. So take from that

170
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,240
Speaker 1: what you will. You can read Felix's piece at Bloomberg

171
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: dot com or put a link to it in our

172
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,480
Speaker 1: podcast show notes as well.

173
00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,199
Speaker 2: Now, and let's bring you more on the fall out

174
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 2: from the Epstein files. The UK's Development Finance Bank British

175
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 2: International Investment has suspended dealings with Dubio Logistics gan DP

176
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 2: world over alleged ties between the firm CEO and Jeffrey Epstein.

177
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 2: Around the world, politicians and business leaders are having to

178
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,959
Speaker 2: respond to revelations found in the millions of documents released

179
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,160
Speaker 2: by the US Justice Department. Joining US now as Harry Wilson,

180
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg reporter at the center of our investigation that

181
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 2: first uncovered the extent of Epstein's ties to the UK's

182
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,839
Speaker 2: former ambassador to the US, Peter Mandelson. Harry, good to

183
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,960
Speaker 2: speak to you. You've also been reporting on the story

184
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 2: around DP world this week, and those revelations around the

185
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 2: chairman and CEO's contacts with Epstein having consequences really far

186
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,920
Speaker 2: beyond Dubai.

187
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 3: Tell us what's happened.

188
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 5: Yes, well, it's been quite a familiar story now, hasn't it.

189
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 5: With all the release of these documents, what we're seeing

190
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 5: is a whole host of people around the world, often

191
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 5: very wealthy, very influential people, being caught up in this,

192
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 5: I guess ever growing scandal, which is that they in

193
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 5: some way have either had linked connections, were close friends

194
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,439
Speaker 5: associates of Jeffrey Epstein, and those relationships now are getting

195
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,960
Speaker 5: exposed in a very public and a very I guess

196
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,960
Speaker 5: sort of damaging way for them at the moment.

197
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:22,960
Speaker 3: Harry.

198
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: This is part of a deluge of documents released now

199
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,240
Speaker 1: more than a week ago. Why just on the mechanics

200
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 1: of this, why are we still learning significant new details

201
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 1: each day? And should we expect that to continue?

202
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 5: I supposely the answer is pretty simple, which is that

203
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 5: there's three and a half million documents that have been released.

204
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 5: Quite a few of those documents will be one hundreds,

205
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 5: maybe thousands of pages long, So we're talking about potentially,

206
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 5: I think, probably upwards of tens of millions of pages

207
00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 5: of information here and quite simply just going through the

208
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,199
Speaker 5: process of sifting through that long time. You know, even

209
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 5: with all the technology we have at our fingertips today

210
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 5: that's access to aisystems and such like, it's still a

211
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 5: very very labor intensive process. And I think that we're

212
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 5: probably only you know, about maybe five ten percent of

213
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,840
Speaker 5: the way into into this. You know, there's just just

214
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 5: simply a huge amount of information to go through. Quite

215
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 5: often as well, documents require a lot of context. You know,

216
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,440
Speaker 5: you can see an email that looks pretty innocuous, but

217
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,199
Speaker 5: it can only reveal its true significance quite often in

218
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 5: a wider context of what was happening at the time

219
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,440
Speaker 5: when the email was sent. And that's just a very

220
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,120
Speaker 5: labor intensive, time consuming process. So My guess is that

221
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 5: this is going to go on for at least several

222
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 5: more weeks, probably months, and who knows, we can still

223
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 5: be a year or so out from this learning new

224
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,920
Speaker 5: things from this cash.

225
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and some of the allegations are much more serious

226
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 2: than others. What has stood out to you most in

227
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,640
Speaker 2: terms of what has emerged so far?

228
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 5: I think probably what stands out to me, probably what

229
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 5: stands out to a lot of our listeners as well,

230
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,320
Speaker 5: probably is the unguardedness and the year. I guess sort

231
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:23,080
Speaker 5: of vulgarity maybe is the word. But what I think

232
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 5: a lot of people finding surprising is just simply the

233
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 5: way in which people communicated so openly about such often

234
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 5: terrible things with Jeffrey Epstein. You might have expected, you know,

235
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 5: at least by I guess sort of the mid twenty

236
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 5: tens or something, people to be more guarded in their

237
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 5: electronic communications. But what we actually see is people sending

238
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:52,360
Speaker 5: incredibly I guess, sort of course or unwise communications to

239
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 5: and from Epstein. And I think that to me has

240
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,440
Speaker 5: been a huge surprise that people were quite openly sending

241
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 5: this type of staff to Epstein years after he was

242
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 5: convicted of soliciting sex from a minor and I think,

243
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,800
Speaker 5: you know, I think a lot of other people probably

244
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:13,920
Speaker 5: find that very surprising too.

245
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Harry, thanks so much for joining us, Harry Wilson.

246
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: They're a reporter who's been covering the Epstein files and

247
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,720
Speaker 1: indeed broke many of these stories before the delage of

248
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 1: documents that came from the US Justice Department as well.

249
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining us this morning. Stay

250
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 1: with us. More from Bloomberg Daybreak Europe coming up after this.

251
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 9: Now.

252
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 2: The trial of two traders in Paris is offering a

253
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 2: rare view into the mechanics of an alleged multimillion euro

254
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,480
Speaker 2: inside a deal. It follows a decade long investigation into

255
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 2: trades that were made before French chemical producer air le

256
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 2: Ked announced plans to acquire American rival air gas. Our

257
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 2: Paris legal reporter gaspell Seabag joins us now for more.

258
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 2: Good to talk to you, Gas about what has stood

259
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 2: out doing this trial.

260
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 9: You know, what was really extraordinary during this trial is

261
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,760
Speaker 9: that some of the suspects were using what's known as

262
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 9: Berner phones. They were using these prepaid cell phones that

263
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,800
Speaker 9: you typically discard to avoid being detected by authorities, but

264
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 9: Despite these precautions, Coop managed to trace their movements and

265
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 9: somehow actually wiretapped these secret lines, and so in court

266
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,400
Speaker 9: there was this moment where the judge actually played the

267
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 9: tapes and so instead of surmising that these traders who

268
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 9: had been making millions over the past years, surmising that

269
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 9: maybe they'd got a tip from somewhere, well, actually we

270
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 9: were listening to them as they appeared to get leaks

271
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 9: from a banker of details about out a yet unannounced

272
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,920
Speaker 9: multi billion dollar acquisition.

273
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,000
Speaker 10: It was really really quite extraordinary.

274
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 9: You could hear the suspects laugh at times in court.

275
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 9: I really sensed unease from the defendants. And what was

276
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 9: really quite amazing was the wealth of details that this

277
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 9: gang had. They didn't just know the names of the

278
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,520
Speaker 9: companies that you just cited. They also appeared to gain

279
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 9: information about the price they acquired was going to pay,

280
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 9: which was basically a forty percent premium. They seemed to

281
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 9: know the date the deal was going to be announced,

282
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,000
Speaker 9: they seemed to know how it was going to be financed. Basically,

283
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 9: they kind of seemed to have everything in hand.

284
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 1: One of the unusual characters in this case, it's been

285
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: a paintball executive. Can you tell us more about about

286
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 1: Hyman and how he was embroiled in this Yes?

287
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 10: Absolutely.

288
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 9: In fact, you know, beyond these berna phones that I mentioned,

289
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 9: what makes cracking inside a trading case it's very difficult,

290
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,280
Speaker 9: is when you have these unusual intermediaries. You know, it's

291
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 9: essentially people that there's no real objective reason to suspect,

292
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 9: and that I believe was the case in many ways

293
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 9: with this Paintball executive, mister Thomas Seligman, who'd started his

294
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 9: career running hair salon family business for several years and

295
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 9: then set up, as you said, a paintball supply firm.

296
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 9: He didn't carry any stock trading himself, so you know,

297
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,679
Speaker 9: he never raised any red flags with market regulators. But

298
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 9: as it seemed to turn out, he was the connector.

299
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 9: He was the essential node in this alleged scheme. You know,

300
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 9: independently over the years he'd met a banker and then

301
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,920
Speaker 9: at another occasion he'd met a solo trader, and thereafter,

302
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:12,600
Speaker 9: using these secret lines, he was phoning one to collect information,

303
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 9: then calling the other to share what he'd learnt.

304
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,640
Speaker 10: And you know that was the.

305
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 9: Person that eventually authorities started tailing. You know, they started

306
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,919
Speaker 9: to follow what he was doing, and they finally managed

307
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,240
Speaker 9: to place a wiretapp on his phone.

308
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,800
Speaker 3: So then what was in it for him?

309
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 2: Since he wasn't himself trading on the intel Allegedly.

310
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 10: That's where it gets really really quite interesting too.

311
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 9: You know, obviously you can imagine that according to investigators,

312
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 9: he wasn't doing this for free. He expected seemingly a

313
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 9: kit back on the proceeds, and the authorities alleged that

314
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 9: he and his co conspirators were using these quite roundabout

315
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 9: ways to make payments, right, they weren't just like you know, making.

316
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 10: A wire trade transfer like this, you know.

317
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 9: And and so in one one instance, mister Seligman had

318
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,400
Speaker 9: received a regency period console when he'd got married several

319
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,879
Speaker 9: decades earlier, and he was desperately trying to get rid

320
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 9: of it in the in the years proceeding uh this

321
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 9: this case, and he'd had Christie's auction it several times,

322
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 9: but you know, no one was a buyer. The price

323
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 9: kept on dropping, and still no one was a buyer.

324
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 10: And then one day.

325
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 9: Actually he was on Christmas Eve, just after a protagonist

326
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,359
Speaker 9: had made a mint on air gas, this fellow Seligman

327
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 9: got a big wire transfer worth at least three times

328
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,679
Speaker 9: the value of this furniture piece from one of the

329
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 9: trader friends who who'd made fortune. You know, this was

330
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 9: just one of the alleged Kickmax schemes. There were other

331
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:10,439
Speaker 9: which were seemingly disguised in a distribution contract for Paintball Ammo.

332
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 9: But I do think this Regency one is pat the

333
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 9: most telling.

334
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, your morning brief on the

335
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 1: stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond.

336
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 2: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning, on Apple, Spotify,

337
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

338
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 1: You can also listen live each morning on London Dab Radio,

339
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com.

340
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 2: Our flagship New York station is also available on your

341
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 2: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

342
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 3: I'm Caroline Hepka and.

343
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Carroll. Join us again tomorrow morning for all

344
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 1: the news you need to start your day right here

345
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg day Break Europe