WEBVTT - FTX’s Sam Bankman-Fried Pleads Not Guilty. Now What? 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.680 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast, 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.640 and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:26.040 Bloomberg News. It's Friday, January six. Welcome to the first 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.200 segment of this Week in Crypto for three. We're kicking 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.519 off the year with can You Guess? I'm sure you 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:37.000 can guess. Sam Bankman Freed, the former FTX CEO, had 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.200 quite the wild holiday season. His company's filed for bankruptcy, 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.360 and November he was arrested in the Bahamas. In December, 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.400 Bankman Freed faces multiple criminal charges, and at least two 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:53.959 of his closest colleagues and confidence are providing evidence against him. SBF, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.640 as he's commonly known, flew back to New York this 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.200 week after spending the holidays in California on bail. At 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.120 that hearing in New York on Tuesday, he pleaded not guilty, 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.679 as was widely expected to those charges wild times indeed. 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.520 Here to help me break down the top crypto developments 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.120 of the week and the year so far is Bloomberg 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:19.440 Senior Editor Philip Logger Coranzo. Everything from when f TX 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.480 started unraveling in that first week of November, it felt 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:33.880 like it went on hyper drive speed. Philip, I feel 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.640 like I ask you this question every single time, but like, 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.840 what is going on just in general? What is going 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:42.640 on in general? Yeah, I mean we have to talk 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.160 about SPF, don't we. It's coming to a head now, 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.240 dam Bankman Free's trial on those fraud charges in the 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.040 New York City Court room are set to begin in 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:57.000 October two quite sometimes not unexpectedly, we had the not 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.000 guilty ply trial set for early October, and as we 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.760 point out in our story, it is looking like one 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.720 of the most high profile white collar trials in recent memory. 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.080 It's exciting, it is exciting, but I'm I'm just wondering 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:16.040 about this October twenty three dates. It fields both very 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.040 far away in that we're recording this episode, it's the 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.399 first week of January, and like what, who knows what's 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.280 going to happen between now in October, like ten more 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.640 people can file for bankruptcy. But also, as my colleagues 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.400 on legal, our colleagues on legal have been reporting, this 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.840 is moving at a pretty fast clip by the standards 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:40.280 of you know, criminal prosecutions. Have you noticed this sort 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:45.040 of tension in Krypto where we spent a good chunk 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.399 of the end of last year hearing people say over 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.520 and over, oh, nobody's ever going to be prosecuted for anything. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.200 Investigators are slow rolling, we don't understand why anything is 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.160 not why nothing is happening, and then bam, you know 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:03.120 bank when free, it's arrested. Multiple of his colleagues are 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.600 facing similar charges, some of them have agreed to cooperate 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:11.519 with investigators, and now we're staring down and October date. 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:13.880 Just as an editor, like, how do you sort of 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:19.560 balance these competing timelines. Everything from when f t X 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:23.640 started unraveling in that first week of November, it felt 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.720 like it went on hyperdrive speed. And I mean the 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.079 the sort of the sense you got working on these 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:35.840 stories and watching these developments when it comes to the 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.880 speed at which the prosecution and the s s SEC 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:44.440 and the c s C, c FTC moved um, was 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:49.800 that A they felt obviously that there was a lot 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.640 of evidence here. B that after the year that we've 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.560 had and so much going wrong, and as you said, 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.360 the growing spare or questions about whether or not somebody 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.200 would end up paying the price for everything, all the 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.920 billions of dollars lost hundreds of billions of dollars lost. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:09.920 I don't I don't know what the final tally is. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.720 You get the sense that there was really a sense 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.200 of pressure to to move quickly and make sure that 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:22.240 there was no doubt left that you know, we are 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.880 taking this extraordinarily seriously and you know this will not stand. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.080 And then yeah, I mean, as it comes to the 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.440 actual trial date ten months out from now almost nine 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.839 and change, I don't know. That is a little bit 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.680 more outside my my regular purview, but based on his 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.280 not guilty plea, um, it looks like the trial will 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.200 also take a little bit longer than it otherwise had, 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:50.960 even though we have some legal experts seemed to leave 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.000 room for the fact that he might change course during 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:59.800 this process. I have felt for the past year and 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:03.560 a bits of this as the class in this podcast, 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.279 that it's like running a marathon at sprint pace, which 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.680 people who run marathons are like, yeah, that's how fast 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.040 people run marathons, like they're very very fast. Actually, you're 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.560 just a normal person and not an Olympic athlete. Um. Yeah, 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:18.560 so as a normal person and not an Olympic athletes, 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:23.680 it's definitely been fairly brutal, just in terms of the 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.000 perception that things are taking very long, but the reality 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.360 that actually things are moving quite quickly, because even October 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.599 would still be less than a year from when all 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.400 of those FTX companies were placed into bankruptcy protection. So that's, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.839 you know, that is a pretty accelerated timeline. I want 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:46.360 to also just mention one of the to me weirder 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.120 slash more interesting elements of how this trial has been 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.600 playing out so far, and that has to do with 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.039 the desire for secrecy. Our colleague Jeremy Hill on the 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.400 Credits and Distress team has talked a lot about how 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.520 one of the things that bankruptcy is supposed to do 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.120 is provide clarity and transparency, including for things like the 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:13.520 lists of creditors. And you know, f t X has 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:18.280 taken the position that publishing the names of it's a 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.479 top fifty creditors could expose those folks to some kind 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.680 of of risk. And now bank Man Freed's lawyers, and 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.360 again in bank Win Freed no longer represents or speaks 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.960 for f t X in any capacity, but bank Win 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:38.479 Freed's own personal lawyers have sought to hide or redact 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:42.800 to use the formal phrase the names of two people 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:47.840 who have to co sign his very large bond package. Right, 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.200 He's he was able to be out on bail with 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:54.320 his parents in California because he has agreed to a 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.480 two hundred and fifty million dollar bail package, which does 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.040 not mean that he personally has to put up two 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.200 million dollars. And you know, there's we we have some 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:05.920 stories on this that we can we linked to in 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.279 the show notes that folks can find out how that works. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.600 But it does mean that as part of it, he's 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:12.920 got to find two people who are not his family 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.160 who will sign on as guaranteurs. Which is that like 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.800 if for some reason he like tries to top on 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.880 a private jet to Dubai, say, then those two people 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.640 are actually going to be on the hook for a 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.720 large chunk of that change. And under ordinary circumstances, the 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.240 names of those two people would be public, but his 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.200 lawyers want the judge to hide that information from everybody else, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.960 saying that they're worried that those folks might also face 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.840 some kind of threat or potential harm. How does this 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:45.120 square with cryptos wanted transparency. There's a lot, there's a 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:50.600 lot lately that hasn't really squared with transparency. Um. Transparency 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:55.680 was a bye word, a keyword, a buzzword for for 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.000 a while, until you know that the winds kind of turned. Huh. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.960 I do think that. I mean it does look from 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.600 reading our own coverage, like and the case of his 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.600 Lane Maxwell there there seems to have been president for 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.760 keeping the identities of people back in bail bonds secret 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.440 in the sense where you can expect that they would 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.280 be subject to harassment, to threats or otherwise. And I 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:28.200 think that that was the argument that SPF lawyer made 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.320 as well. I don't know if they referred explicitly to 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.360 that case, but I do know that we have mentioned 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.800 it in our coverage. And you know, to be fair, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.760 we've seen other fallen crypto figures like the three A 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.960 C founders um. We also the terror USD do Quan 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:52.760 have made references to their own personal safety and and 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.400 threat to it um um. So it's a it's a 0:08:56.480 --> 0:09:00.640 delicate balancing act, certainly, you have and in industry that 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:05.839 has always built itself as big on transparency and information 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.480 for all, and now you're seeing things play out very differently. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:13.560 One of the things that happened this week was a 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:22.640 pretty robust statement from various major regulators around the risks 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:27.400 that crypto might pose two banks. And we've said on 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.319 the show a couple of times that robust regulatory speak 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:35.240 sounds like very mild to to normal people. It's things 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.720 like we have concerns, and you're like, WHOA, that's that's huge. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.040 They're practically shouting um. But certainly one of the things 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.360 that we heard that was practically shouting this week is 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:52.240 this idea of you know, two really demonstrated the risks 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.720 of crypto andree you know, folks are not just going 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.880 to sit back and watch while other things collapse. And 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:04.520 it made me think of what you said about this 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.640 idea of people wanting to be seen as taken this 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:12.240 taking this very seriously, because perhaps the most vocal and 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:17.800 not unjustified criticism of policymakers last year is they didn't 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.960 really protect people from being burned by crypto. And it's 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.199 this statement, which came out from a combination of the 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.360 US Federal Reserve, the Office of the Control of the Currency, 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.880 and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corps or fd I c 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.760 essentially said we know we are watching and we are 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.440 going to be paying a lot of attention to this, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.960 but it didn't come with any action, right, It just 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:48.000 said we're paying attention, here are expectations, but there isn't 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.680 necessarily any action attached to this specific thing. Where there 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:58.360 was action was as often happens in New York, where 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.360 the big finale so regulator there, which has not proven 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.720 to be a fan of crypto in any way, came 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.520 after coin base. And so for me, one of the 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.640 themes that's already shaping up in three is this idea 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.400 of what's sometimes called jaw boning, which is like a 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.120 bunch of people saying a bunch of stuff but not 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:21.880 necessarily doing anything, coupled with pretty strident action from states 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.400 regulators in the US, right, Like, this is not the 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:28.400 first time that New York has said, you know what, Feds, 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.920 you are taking too long, or you're not you're not 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:32.920 doing the things that we needed to do. We're gonna 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.760 go after this ourselves. Is there any kind of equivalent 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:40.760 tension in Europe where you're based, where like either countries 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.600 or certain individual regulators in certain countries are looking at 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.920 the relative and action of the EU and saying, actually, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.320 we're going to take this into our own hands. I 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.000 think the main discrepancy we've seen here is between the 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:58.600 EU appears to be standing fairly firm behind MICA right now, 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.800 which is the market thing Crypto Assets Act, which will 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.000 take effect well a year from now actually, and so 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.920 we haven't seen to the same extent certain countries regulators 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.320 springing ahead. What we do see is the UK, obviously 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:17.080 post Brexit, charting its own path here, and we had, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.920 for instance, members of Parliament putting some questions to finance 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:26.000 in the aftermath of the FTX fall, but it's not 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.720 been accentuated. I guess you call it as in the 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:33.440 States where New York regulators have you know, we're making 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.480 targeted moves like this one with coin base. It could 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.760 still happen during this year in the run up to 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.560 MICA taking effect, and that's actually something that I think 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.679 will be paying a lot of attention to. As the 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:50.000 final print gets written on MICA ahead of its launch, 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.760 you might see regulators. It wouldn't be completely wild for 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.520 some regulators to take matters into their own hands. I 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.760 guess it all depends on what what what happens now, 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.320 what happens with firms that are for instance based here. 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.520 But the main thing that I've seen so far is 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.680 the UK kind of trying to chat its own path 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:12.200 on crypto right well, now that they have a government, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.000 we'll see how that goes for them exactly. We'll be 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.440 right back with more of the week's top stories with 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:30.200 Philip Lagerkranza. There are certainly a lot of folks who 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.960 are hoping that bitcoin isn't going to be down another 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.160 six But at least so far this week in January, 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:44.040 we're not seeing a lot of trading volumes were nowhere near, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.440 you know, like the highs of liquidity that we were 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.640 seeing around this time last year. And that's certainly an 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.400 indicator that a lot of folks are going to be 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.040 paying attention to in terms of his sentiment coming back 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.599 for crypto. And there's this interesting problem and it's a 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.200 little bit chicken and egg e here for you know, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.120 folks who are enthusiasts of this asset class, which is 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.640 because liquidity is so thin, any price declines tend to 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.679 be fairly dramatic, and so you actually need a lot 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.840 more people coming back into the market and being willing 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.480 to trade to you know, get some momentum back. That 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.240 will mean one there's more potential for sustained upside and 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.400 to you, you limit your downside risk a little bit, 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.800 and we're not seeing that yet. But the other thing 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.240 is one of the reasons people aren't necessarily coming back 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.640 into the markets is because they spent a lot of 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.560 time being like there's nothing interesting to do right now, 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.080 that there's nothing, I can't take any interesting speculative positions, 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.040 like I don't know, I'm not super optimistic about what 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.640 might happen with with regulation, or you know, there's not 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.560 enough going on for me to take a position in this. 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.080 And you're hearing that from institutional investors certainly who love 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.680 an arbitrage opportunity, but also retail ones and so I 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.480 guess you know. One thing we're gonna be looking at 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.400 in our coverage is where is their activity? And certainly 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.800 a theme that we're starting to see isn't what's sometimes 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.480 known as old coins, right like the Solanas of the world, 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.520 or in the case of the inevitable meme coins, there's 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:22.040 something called bunk, which we will talk about on a 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.120 future episode. Are there any unusual coins, Philip that you're 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.320 paying attention to? Three you mentioned Solana already, it's up, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.520 it's a thirty. I believe UM this year alone, it's 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.920 it's by far the biggest gainer, and it was also 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.680 the one that got the most pummeled by all the 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.320 top old coins in December, So in a sense that's 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.520 kind of you can you can assign that to being 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:51.040 a bounce back from extreme pessimism embarrassness. But you do 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.000 also have other coins like um light coin um that 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.880 I've done well and we we we are actually seeing 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.720 now and it's interesting to see what can we make 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.920 of this? What can we make of is it is 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.640 it just a function of when the market moves up, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.160 al coin moves up, move up more or is there 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:15.960 more risk willingness creeping back into the markets, And you 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.040 know that al coins would be the first barometer or 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:24.000 the first sign that we are seeing more risk appetite 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:29.120 creeping back. From that perspective, it's quite interesting too to 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.920 follow um Salona does. As you say, it is it 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.760 is a little bit of a special case at this point. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.360 But I think if if other alt coins start catching 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.960 up to Salona's performance UM so far this year, then 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:43.840 you know that that is something to really pay attention to. 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.760 And as you mentioned, you know you you don't want 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.120 to be making too much of price advances and ald 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:57.080 coins without the benefit of also having ideally volumes picking up. 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.400 For Salona, volumes are definitely picking up a litt little bit, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.080 but I think we'll want to see whether or not 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.760 that remains in the next few few days a few 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.720 weeks um, and it could be quite an important interesting 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.600 at least it may be storyline. You've given me the 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.520 opportunity to wheel out one of my favorite journalistic cliches. 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.960 Too early to tell. Thank you, Philip, Talk to you 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.120 again soon. Thank you. You can find more of phillips 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:33.520 work on the Bloomberg terminal and on Bloomberg dot com. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.679 This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.680 I Heeart Radio. For more shows from I Heeart Radio, 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.199 visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.280 get your podcasts. Send us your comments, questions, or suggestions 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:52.960 for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. The 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.959 supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergalina. Our senior 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.600 producer is Janet Babin. Our producers are Moham Farup and 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.320 Sharon Barrero. Our associate producers are Ty Butler and Moses 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.600 on them. Desta wonder At is our engineer. Original music 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:13.679 by Leo Sidrn. I'm Stacy, Marie Ishmael. Have a great weekend.