Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making other content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy? Now? It really is?
Speaker 1: What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christ and
Speaker 1: welcome back to Atlantia. We're coming off of a twenty
Speaker 1: four hour trip in Las Vegas. We got to speak
Speaker 1: at the d m A and then conference thanks to
Speaker 1: our friends at Action i Q thank you TASN team
Speaker 1: to talk about data as a catalyst for creativity and
Speaker 1: it was a great discussion with one of our favorites,
Speaker 1: Nick Drake, who is going to join us on the show.
Speaker 1: Instead of speaking like you know, the kind of pr
Speaker 1: talking points that we hear so much, he's one of
Speaker 1: those leaders who is amazingly natural, really quick witted, but
Speaker 1: like so direct. He has the uncarrier of marketers, the
Speaker 1: uncarrier of marketers. So that was fun. That was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun and now and now it feels like
Speaker 1: it's three weeks later, but it's the same week and
Speaker 1: we're back in the studio and we have actually one
Speaker 1: of your one of your clients who you've been raving
Speaker 1: about forever, Kimrie Blackwelder from Cohan. Yeah. I think where
Speaker 1: PR and comms are going the industry is not having
Speaker 1: PR be the sort of afterthought output to go and
Speaker 1: break news about this first market or most innovative thing
Speaker 1: you're doing, but to really think about the lens in
Speaker 1: which calms brings to development of assets, to thinking about
Speaker 1: what partners you're working with, how they might engage them
Speaker 1: to sort of amplify that idea. So I think it'd
Speaker 1: be really interesting to get her perspective. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: what's really interesting is we we talked to him Marie.
Speaker 1: That that I'm particularly like focused on right now is
Speaker 1: advertising has been desperately trying to move into a more
Speaker 1: natural place where it feels like earned communications communication right.
Speaker 1: And so at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: I always question myself, like, are we organized in our
Speaker 1: kind of under our cmos, typically at large organizations that
Speaker 1: have PR and you know, PR, comms and marketing in
Speaker 1: the right way, because it's still like this kind of
Speaker 1: interesting process in terms of PR does this piece and
Speaker 1: marketing does this piece, and it's still like we're kind
Speaker 1: of still stuck backwards. We'll be right back. So we
Speaker 1: have one of our favorite most energetic hustlers in the industry,
Speaker 1: Kimrie Blackwelder, joining us all away from California on her vacation.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, kim Ray Rick, Hi, thank you.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be on Adlandia. Well, we're
Speaker 1: so happy favorite podcast. YA, so happy to have you. So, Kimrie,
Speaker 1: tell our listeners where you work and what you do.
Speaker 1: I am the senior director of Global PR and Social
Speaker 1: at a wonderful brand called Cohan, which we love and
Speaker 1: we are very frequently frequently Ya, Kimri, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for calling in. Would love to talk about at
Speaker 1: large the worlds of communications and PR. Obviously there have
Speaker 1: been so many factors and influences that have shaped and
Speaker 1: evolved your industry. But would love before we get into that,
Speaker 1: for you to talk about your background. The industry, as
Speaker 1: you know is, especially with PR, has changed drastically. I
Speaker 1: moved to New York right after college and joined a
Speaker 1: very traditional agency um in their executive training program. I
Speaker 1: was invited to be a part of that and that agency,
Speaker 1: Rooter Fun, which is still in existence based out in
Speaker 1: New York. We went into a class, we had an
Speaker 1: executive training class and when I say literally, we were
Speaker 1: in the building on Second Avenue and fifty seven down
Speaker 1: in the basement. This was like PR one oh one
Speaker 1: dropped and dropped down in the basement and you know,
Speaker 1: we were just typing, making content calendars, media lists, I
Speaker 1: mean every traditional PR document and that's all we did
Speaker 1: for multiple accounts. They just kept us down the basement
Speaker 1: and it was it was really crazy to look back
Speaker 1: on it. And then you know, fast forward to that
Speaker 1: was very traditional obviously commercial PR and then UM I
Speaker 1: evolved into actually fashion PR and UM at a time
Speaker 1: when it was so traditional you know you were going
Speaker 1: it was it was run way shows and press previews.
Speaker 1: That was just for media and buyers. You do not
Speaker 1: have the street style bloggers and those digital influencers. You know,
Speaker 1: that was nowhere on the scene. UM and then I
Speaker 1: evolved to a very interesting role with a very dynamic
Speaker 1: woman Uma by the name of Amy Sako, who was
Speaker 1: looking for a right hand that had experience and PR
Speaker 1: marketing events she was known as the Queen of the
Speaker 1: night and she had very exclusive spaces such as Bungalow eight.
Speaker 1: And we worked really closely with the fashion industry, publishing
Speaker 1: all the all the magazines, the art world. Um, it was.
Speaker 1: It was really the entertainment world. Obviously, celebrity was a
Speaker 1: huge part of that. I evolved. I worked at a magazine.
Speaker 1: I eventually landed at Cohen and they were looking for
Speaker 1: someone that had media experience celebrity events. And so I
Speaker 1: have watched the PR industry just evolved and been part
Speaker 1: of it. And I will honestly say I love where
Speaker 1: where we are today is just really interesting because there's,
Speaker 1: like I say, never a dull moment, and you have
Speaker 1: to be on your game. It used to be a
Speaker 1: puzzle that was just like put the pieces together and
Speaker 1: this is how you do it. It is not like that.
Speaker 1: There's almost no rules, you know. The only rule you
Speaker 1: have to follow in this world of PR and comps
Speaker 1: is give the media the facts, right, That's our responsibility.
Speaker 1: We have to give them the correct information. How we
Speaker 1: get that information to them, the sky's the limit. It's
Speaker 1: I mean, what does that look like? What the craziest
Speaker 1: thing is that you've done to pitch, well, I want
Speaker 1: to get crazier. I don't think I've done my craziest thing.
Speaker 1: This is this is like the thing this like gives me,
Speaker 1: just like this is what gets me out of bed
Speaker 1: in the morning. I want to crack this, this thing
Speaker 1: of the of the modern day a PR pitch because
Speaker 1: I am the first one that wants to kill the
Speaker 1: traditional press release and the all the typical jargon in it.
Speaker 1: Everyone is thrilled to launch something, Everyone is excited, and
Speaker 1: it just it's you could read one from you know,
Speaker 1: a brand, and then read one from a tech company,
Speaker 1: and then read one from a pharma They're all saying
Speaker 1: that it's no. That's so that's the biggest thing is
Speaker 1: figuring out how to pitch this media, and now that
Speaker 1: the media landscape is so drastically changed, is how do
Speaker 1: you stand out? Right? How do you stand out? These
Speaker 1: editors a lot of are getting, especially the digital editors,
Speaker 1: are getting a hundred and fifty minimum pitches in their
Speaker 1: inbox a day, and um, and if you're a brand,
Speaker 1: UM that maybe does not have a huge advertising budget,
Speaker 1: it's hard. The struggle is real, and UM, you've got
Speaker 1: to figure it out. I want to figure out like
Speaker 1: a short video spot that's just the pitch, you know,
Speaker 1: to do a really cool fifteen second do it so thick.
Speaker 1: These these editors that are inundated, they can be they
Speaker 1: can they can listen to it. They don't have to
Speaker 1: watch it. So I think it's figuring out video audio
Speaker 1: of a short pitch. I was just talking to the
Speaker 1: PR Newswire for one of oh and and like I
Speaker 1: this is this is what kind of killed me. I
Speaker 1: was like, yes, we have to just do it because
Speaker 1: we have to, like, you know, keep the subscription because
Speaker 1: table stakes. But at the end of the day, I'm
Speaker 1: why am I getting text based long form press releases anymore?
Speaker 1: And by the way, this is for a technology company.
Speaker 1: I'm like, why are we doing this? Why is this?
Speaker 1: What's our what's our new benchmark for for for the
Speaker 1: press release? Like, what's our new thing? That's what That's
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to solve for. Because the PR Newswire,
Speaker 1: I mean I use them, everybody does, everybody doesn't, but
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't if you look at the analytics and
Speaker 1: the reports, it's not driving it's not building a brand,
Speaker 1: and you're not getting quality coverage. From them, and it's
Speaker 1: it's so, it's so yesterday, and but everybody still does
Speaker 1: it because I think they've made it so easy. You
Speaker 1: just kind of here you go, here your assets, here's
Speaker 1: the copy, you know, um, but it's not what is
Speaker 1: moving the needle, and it's yeah, it's they We've got
Speaker 1: to we've got to figure that out in the industry
Speaker 1: what it does. And I'm it's like literally number one
Speaker 1: on my list of testing and learning and trying new things.
Speaker 1: How have you thought about how you might bring in
Speaker 1: press not when the project is necessarily finished, um, but
Speaker 1: from the beginning, so that people may have that sort
Speaker 1: of exclusive look as opposed to an exclusive break. Does
Speaker 1: that make sense? It makes perfect sense. And it's it's
Speaker 1: another other than killing that press release. It's this get
Speaker 1: it's the second most important thing to be at the beginning,
Speaker 1: you know, be there through the process, even the ideation,
Speaker 1: like when you think about who are going to be
Speaker 1: your partners, you know, your media partners be part of
Speaker 1: that that first kickoff conversation, be at the table because
Speaker 1: you are able to capture not only are you able
Speaker 1: to capture the journey, whether it's video film, because people
Speaker 1: want a story right, and they want to see how
Speaker 1: something's created. They just don't want to see it here,
Speaker 1: here's your product or your service on launch day, right.
Speaker 1: They it's much more interesting. They feel like they're part
Speaker 1: of that journey. And everyone talk about like the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes UM content media love that. They were like,
Speaker 1: do you have any behind the scenes video? Do you
Speaker 1: have any behind the scenes stills? They get or you
Speaker 1: bring them behind the scenes. And I have done that,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you when I launched a
Speaker 1: campaign a couple of years ago, I brought in three
Speaker 1: different media outlets and the coverage for that campaign what
Speaker 1: And it's still talked about today. It's because we brought
Speaker 1: them in to set and had conversations that day. You know,
Speaker 1: they got to be part of it, um. And you know,
Speaker 1: some some people get very skittish about that, Oh I
Speaker 1: don't showing too much. But we're in the age of digital.
Speaker 1: Everyone shows everything. So when you sit down with these
Speaker 1: partners from the from the get go and create these
Speaker 1: these very brilliant campaigns and is documented so you had
Speaker 1: it when you go to launch, it's just a better story.
Speaker 1: They're inundated with stories and only yours will stand out.
Speaker 1: If you have really layers to it. Well, it's interesting
Speaker 1: too because it feels like earned value is a metric
Speaker 1: these days that is just as important as what you
Speaker 1: expect based on the guarantees of what you're buying, right,
Speaker 1: And so to me, by not having PR COMMS at
Speaker 1: the table from the beginning, you're sort of diluting the
Speaker 1: impact of whatever it is that you're creating. Knowing that
Speaker 1: everybody's like, what's our viral moment? And people are still
Speaker 1: asking that question, how do you create something that's going
Speaker 1: to how But but people are asking this, but what
Speaker 1: they're asking is how do I generate earned value? So
Speaker 1: in the market, I think you know, for every dollar
Speaker 1: that I'm putting in, right, what is going to be
Speaker 1: the incremental return? So oftentimes that really requires PR and
Speaker 1: COMMS to be at the table from the begin Absolutely, right,
Speaker 1: you take a media investment, so you have that investment,
Speaker 1: but you wanted to always have legs and that is
Speaker 1: the biggest, biggest thing when we go into our paid
Speaker 1: media partnerships. I'm sitting there at the table at the
Speaker 1: very beginning, like my mind is already racing, how does
Speaker 1: this have legs? How can you know for your term
Speaker 1: take it viral? Where where's their storytelling? Earned storytelling here?
Speaker 1: And if you're not at that table at the beginning
Speaker 1: those conversation sations, you're you're missing opportunity. You know, um
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's something that you would think that
Speaker 1: PR and comm should always have a seat at the table.
Speaker 1: I have always believed this because when things when the
Speaker 1: larger marketing teams hand things off for their brand teams
Speaker 1: hand things off, you're like, wait, well, how how am
Speaker 1: I going to maximize this? Pr and comms need to
Speaker 1: always have a seat at that table from the get go,
Speaker 1: from the initial kickoff all the way through execution, because
Speaker 1: there are moments um that along the way that you
Speaker 1: could just keep on as things developed and as content
Speaker 1: develops with your partners that you're constantly evolving. Well, I
Speaker 1: think here's the thing for me, Kim Marie is like,
Speaker 1: the story doesn't stop because the plane stopped. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a whole that's the whole other thing.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing is Laura and I were in Vegas,
Speaker 1: Baby Vegas earlier this week. It feels like it feels
Speaker 1: like three weeks ago, but we were there earlier this
Speaker 1: week with Nick Drake, and he was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: we used to we used to work in this waterfall process.
Speaker 1: And he's like, the waterfall process is bullshit and everything
Speaker 1: you just described, like in this simple like we should
Speaker 1: have a seat at the table and someone's handing something
Speaker 1: off like to me, that whole like organizational flow is
Speaker 1: why people are asking, well, is this one thing gonna
Speaker 1: is this thing going to go viral? Instead of saying
Speaker 1: is this a story? Right? Is this an investment in
Speaker 1: the brand, in my consumer and in what they care
Speaker 1: about me? Doing that is going to give us legs? People,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about the headline from the beginning, from
Speaker 1: the beginning. Work that we've done starts with the headline.
Speaker 1: And I think with the headline and yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting about that, right is I
Speaker 1: think and you were starting to just allude to it,
Speaker 1: is like the content or the filter or the narrative
Speaker 1: that you know is going to sell in p are
Speaker 1: and to amplify that brand story isn't necessarily what a
Speaker 1: creative director is looking for, isn't necessarily what a media
Speaker 1: planner is looking for. So how do you deal with
Speaker 1: that tension? The only way we're gonna we're going to
Speaker 1: make it and keep and literally keep evolving, is to
Speaker 1: keep learning and keep testing and trying always. Obviously it
Speaker 1: goes back to having a PR comms person at the
Speaker 1: table from the kickoff. But um, you know we're gonna try.
Speaker 1: You know, we're going to test and learn lots of things. Um.
Speaker 1: I think that we have I think everyone in this
Speaker 1: PR industry we have that permission as long it goes back,
Speaker 1: as long as we're giving the facts, the correct information
Speaker 1: to the media. How we get it out there? The
Speaker 1: world is our oyster. And what are some things that
Speaker 1: you go like ways you go about actually testing and
Speaker 1: learning from a from a PR com standpoint, I think
Speaker 1: you really have to do it on on I don't
Speaker 1: want to say like smaller and anouncements. You know, you
Speaker 1: can start testing and learning when you've invested you know,
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousand dollars or media and in a campaign
Speaker 1: and talent and paid media. Now that's not the time
Speaker 1: to be tested something. But I think when when companies
Speaker 1: and brands have a service or a product, you know
Speaker 1: they're constantly putting things out right. I mean I work
Speaker 1: in the I guess the fashion lifestyle space, and we're
Speaker 1: all we're always releasing something, you know, every month or
Speaker 1: every couple of months. Try it on, you know, a
Speaker 1: new product that maybe you're not it doesn't have a
Speaker 1: campaign around it, but it's a it's a next generation
Speaker 1: or an evolution. I think when you think about it
Speaker 1: from like a work product, it's like you only see
Speaker 1: the giant campaign work and if it's really kick ass
Speaker 1: and like you all this amazing coverage and you've done
Speaker 1: some really interesting things from a PR and Colm standpoint,
Speaker 1: but that usually starts because you did it. You started
Speaker 1: doing components even you lead the ground and I don't
Speaker 1: think that way enough out loud. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: It's and you also it's a little bit of trusting
Speaker 1: your gut, like, hey, you know this, this has legs.
Speaker 1: I know this has legs. You know I preached this
Speaker 1: all the time. I have friends that mocked me when
Speaker 1: I say this, And it's such a simple statement. Know
Speaker 1: your media and know their audience, right, And if you
Speaker 1: know you're the media, you know your media and your audience,
Speaker 1: and you trust your gut. You know, that's where you
Speaker 1: go out and test and learn. Be like, that's where
Speaker 1: you should have that confidence. Have you seen data? Right?
Speaker 1: So a lot of the marketing decisions or sort of
Speaker 1: media planning and buying decisions UM these days have a
Speaker 1: higher dependency obviously on data driven insights. Are you seeing
Speaker 1: that impact PR and calms UM or do you still
Speaker 1: feel or is it still something that really relies on
Speaker 1: how well you know the industry and that gut fact
Speaker 1: or you were just talking about. I look at well,
Speaker 1: depending on what if it's a law campaign, launch, product launch, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But really looking at the media their reach, I look
Speaker 1: at all the media and their analytics, and then I
Speaker 1: look through past um and say, oh, I know this
Speaker 1: media outlet drives a lot of traffic and sales. You know,
Speaker 1: so I'm really from a strategic point. That's how I
Speaker 1: kind of pick um pick the media to go out
Speaker 1: to when we like launch um. It's but again there's
Speaker 1: a lot of gray areas still left to kind of uncover.
Speaker 1: How does the role of influence impact that list and
Speaker 1: who you you go to pitch right? Can you talk
Speaker 1: about that tension that exists within influence and what that
Speaker 1: looks like when you're having to consider established media brand
Speaker 1: to sort of scaled individuals. Influence is part of my
Speaker 1: strategy for any of the launch of a campaign, a product,
Speaker 1: anything that is right there, we build that out. You know,
Speaker 1: it used to be all about that top influencer, you know,
Speaker 1: the man repeller. You know, we love to talk about
Speaker 1: the Man Repeller, but and those and those types of
Speaker 1: digital influencers. But what I've been really fascinated by and
Speaker 1: have really stuck into is looking at the micro influencers.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's just been eye opening of what
Speaker 1: the power of a micro influencer. And obviously you know
Speaker 1: their rates are lower, but there it's so interesting to
Speaker 1: watch how their engagement is high. And if you're if
Speaker 1: you're a brand or a company that you know may
Speaker 1: not have big budgets, this this is this isn't something
Speaker 1: you need to have into your launch strategy. So you've
Speaker 1: really gone I'm going to call it d T I
Speaker 1: influencer because yes it is. It's all changed. You know,
Speaker 1: there's no rules like we're getting to use different you know,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot more paid pieces to getting this
Speaker 1: earned media. There such an important part. We do not
Speaker 1: do a launch without an influencer component to it. So
Speaker 1: what skill set does a modern day pr comms person
Speaker 1: need to have to be effective, be aware, be be
Speaker 1: out there in the world, living and listening and experiencing. Well,
Speaker 1: we have to let you get back to your vacation.
Speaker 1: But first, but first we're going to do our game
Speaker 1: killed by d I Y Camry. What in the world
Speaker 1: would you kill? What would you buy? And what would
Speaker 1: you do yourself? Okay, you know what I'm going to
Speaker 1: kill is the traditional press release. I'm so sorry. Yeah
Speaker 1: that that was a given. What am I going to buy? Oh?
Speaker 1: I might want to buy away, um, but what would
Speaker 1: I do myself? You know, I'm gonna go back to
Speaker 1: I want to figure out. I'm gonna figure out video
Speaker 1: visual audio pitches short, sweet, you know where you can engage.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to figure out. I've got to
Speaker 1: find some partners to do that. Well, Kimry, if people
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with you to talk about
Speaker 1: that fifteen second elevator video pitch, how do they get
Speaker 1: in touch with you? They try to get me at
Speaker 1: KASA com k A z Z A k I M
Speaker 1: at hazard count on all social Kimrie, enjoy your trip
Speaker 1: in California. Thank you so much for calling in a
Speaker 1: lot of thank you to Kimry Blackwelder for joining us
Speaker 1: calling it in her vacation. The only thing we were
Speaker 1: missing from this episode were spicy Margarinas said, it um
Speaker 1: so big. Thanks to Kimry. Thank you to friends and
Speaker 1: family at Panoply, our producer Dana Matt turk Andy Bowers.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks. Full disclosure. Our opinions
Speaker 1: are our own