1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,640
Speaker 1: going to have to start making other content. I think

3
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.

4
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.

5
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,319
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're

6
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you

7
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy? Now? It really is?

8
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,960
Speaker 1: What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Christ and

9
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 1: welcome back to Atlantia. We're coming off of a twenty

10
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: four hour trip in Las Vegas. We got to speak

11
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,479
Speaker 1: at the d m A and then conference thanks to

12
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,240
Speaker 1: our friends at Action i Q thank you TASN team

13
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,479
Speaker 1: to talk about data as a catalyst for creativity and

14
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: it was a great discussion with one of our favorites,

15
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,200
Speaker 1: Nick Drake, who is going to join us on the show.

16
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: Instead of speaking like you know, the kind of pr

17
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,080
Speaker 1: talking points that we hear so much, he's one of

18
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 1: those leaders who is amazingly natural, really quick witted, but

19
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 1: like so direct. He has the uncarrier of marketers, the

20
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,960
Speaker 1: uncarrier of marketers. So that was fun. That was a

21
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: lot of fun and now and now it feels like

22
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,840
Speaker 1: it's three weeks later, but it's the same week and

23
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,560
Speaker 1: we're back in the studio and we have actually one

24
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,679
Speaker 1: of your one of your clients who you've been raving

25
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,479
Speaker 1: about forever, Kimrie Blackwelder from Cohan. Yeah. I think where

26
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 1: PR and comms are going the industry is not having

27
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 1: PR be the sort of afterthought output to go and

28
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,680
Speaker 1: break news about this first market or most innovative thing

29
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: you're doing, but to really think about the lens in

30
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,160
Speaker 1: which calms brings to development of assets, to thinking about

31
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 1: what partners you're working with, how they might engage them

32
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,800
Speaker 1: to sort of amplify that idea. So I think it'd

33
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 1: be really interesting to get her perspective. Yeah. I think

34
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 1: what's really interesting is we we talked to him Marie.

35
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 1: That that I'm particularly like focused on right now is

36
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 1: advertising has been desperately trying to move into a more

37
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 1: natural place where it feels like earned communications communication right.

38
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,440
Speaker 1: And so at the end of the day, you know,

39
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,839
Speaker 1: I always question myself, like, are we organized in our

40
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: kind of under our cmos, typically at large organizations that

41
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,280
Speaker 1: have PR and you know, PR, comms and marketing in

42
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 1: the right way, because it's still like this kind of

43
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,800
Speaker 1: interesting process in terms of PR does this piece and

44
00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,799
Speaker 1: marketing does this piece, and it's still like we're kind

45
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:51,960
Speaker 1: of still stuck backwards. We'll be right back. So we

46
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 1: have one of our favorite most energetic hustlers in the industry,

47
00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 1: Kimrie Blackwelder, joining us all away from California on her vacation.

48
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, kim Ray Rick, Hi, thank you.

49
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,399
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be on Adlandia. Well, we're

50
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 1: so happy favorite podcast. YA, so happy to have you. So, Kimrie,

51
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: tell our listeners where you work and what you do.

52
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: I am the senior director of Global PR and Social

53
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: at a wonderful brand called Cohan, which we love and

54
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,200
Speaker 1: we are very frequently frequently Ya, Kimri, thank you so

55
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,679
Speaker 1: much for calling in. Would love to talk about at

56
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 1: large the worlds of communications and PR. Obviously there have

57
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 1: been so many factors and influences that have shaped and

58
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 1: evolved your industry. But would love before we get into that,

59
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: for you to talk about your background. The industry, as

60
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 1: you know is, especially with PR, has changed drastically. I

61
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 1: moved to New York right after college and joined a

62
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: very traditional agency um in their executive training program. I

63
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 1: was invited to be a part of that and that agency,

64
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,960
Speaker 1: Rooter Fun, which is still in existence based out in

65
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 1: New York. We went into a class, we had an

66
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,920
Speaker 1: executive training class and when I say literally, we were

67
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,720
Speaker 1: in the building on Second Avenue and fifty seven down

68
00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 1: in the basement. This was like PR one oh one

69
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 1: dropped and dropped down in the basement and you know,

70
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 1: we were just typing, making content calendars, media lists, I

71
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,760
Speaker 1: mean every traditional PR document and that's all we did

72
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,120
Speaker 1: for multiple accounts. They just kept us down the basement

73
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 1: and it was it was really crazy to look back

74
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 1: on it. And then you know, fast forward to that

75
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 1: was very traditional obviously commercial PR and then UM I

76
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 1: evolved into actually fashion PR and UM at a time

77
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 1: when it was so traditional you know you were going

78
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,360
Speaker 1: it was it was run way shows and press previews.

79
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,680
Speaker 1: That was just for media and buyers. You do not

80
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,200
Speaker 1: have the street style bloggers and those digital influencers. You know,

81
00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:14,599
Speaker 1: that was nowhere on the scene. UM and then I

82
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:19,680
Speaker 1: evolved to a very interesting role with a very dynamic

83
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 1: woman Uma by the name of Amy Sako, who was

84
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: looking for a right hand that had experience and PR

85
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,320
Speaker 1: marketing events she was known as the Queen of the

86
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,600
Speaker 1: night and she had very exclusive spaces such as Bungalow eight.

87
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 1: And we worked really closely with the fashion industry, publishing

88
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,719
Speaker 1: all the all the magazines, the art world. Um, it was.

89
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,839
Speaker 1: It was really the entertainment world. Obviously, celebrity was a

90
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,000
Speaker 1: huge part of that. I evolved. I worked at a magazine.

91
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 1: I eventually landed at Cohen and they were looking for

92
00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 1: someone that had media experience celebrity events. And so I

93
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 1: have watched the PR industry just evolved and been part

94
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 1: of it. And I will honestly say I love where

95
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 1: where we are today is just really interesting because there's,

96
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,480
Speaker 1: like I say, never a dull moment, and you have

97
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 1: to be on your game. It used to be a

98
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 1: puzzle that was just like put the pieces together and

99
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 1: this is how you do it. It is not like that.

100
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,840
Speaker 1: There's almost no rules, you know. The only rule you

101
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: have to follow in this world of PR and comps

102
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,280
Speaker 1: is give the media the facts, right, That's our responsibility.

103
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,159
Speaker 1: We have to give them the correct information. How we

104
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: get that information to them, the sky's the limit. It's

105
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 1: I mean, what does that look like? What the craziest

106
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,880
Speaker 1: thing is that you've done to pitch, well, I want

107
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 1: to get crazier. I don't think I've done my craziest thing.

108
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,920
Speaker 1: This is this is like the thing this like gives me,

109
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 1: just like this is what gets me out of bed

110
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: in the morning. I want to crack this, this thing

111
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 1: of the of the modern day a PR pitch because

112
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,919
Speaker 1: I am the first one that wants to kill the

113
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,359
Speaker 1: traditional press release and the all the typical jargon in it.

114
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 1: Everyone is thrilled to launch something, Everyone is excited, and

115
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 1: it just it's you could read one from you know,

116
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 1: a brand, and then read one from a tech company,

117
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: and then read one from a pharma They're all saying

118
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,280
Speaker 1: that it's no. That's so that's the biggest thing is

119
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: figuring out how to pitch this media, and now that

120
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,680
Speaker 1: the media landscape is so drastically changed, is how do

121
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: you stand out? Right? How do you stand out? These

122
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 1: editors a lot of are getting, especially the digital editors,

123
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 1: are getting a hundred and fifty minimum pitches in their

124
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 1: inbox a day, and um, and if you're a brand,

125
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 1: UM that maybe does not have a huge advertising budget,

126
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,240
Speaker 1: it's hard. The struggle is real, and UM, you've got

127
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 1: to figure it out. I want to figure out like

128
00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: a short video spot that's just the pitch, you know,

129
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 1: to do a really cool fifteen second do it so thick.

130
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 1: These these editors that are inundated, they can be they

131
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: can they can listen to it. They don't have to

132
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: watch it. So I think it's figuring out video audio

133
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,000
Speaker 1: of a short pitch. I was just talking to the

134
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 1: PR Newswire for one of oh and and like I

135
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 1: this is this is what kind of killed me. I

136
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: was like, yes, we have to just do it because

137
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 1: we have to, like, you know, keep the subscription because

138
00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 1: table stakes. But at the end of the day, I'm

139
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:38,199
Speaker 1: why am I getting text based long form press releases anymore?

140
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,000
Speaker 1: And by the way, this is for a technology company.

141
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, why are we doing this? Why is this?

142
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 1: What's our what's our new benchmark for for for the

143
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 1: press release? Like, what's our new thing? That's what That's

144
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to solve for. Because the PR Newswire,

145
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 1: I mean I use them, everybody does, everybody doesn't, but

146
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't if you look at the analytics and

147
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 1: the reports, it's not driving it's not building a brand,

148
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,240
Speaker 1: and you're not getting quality coverage. From them, and it's

149
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 1: it's so, it's so yesterday, and but everybody still does

150
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,080
Speaker 1: it because I think they've made it so easy. You

151
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 1: just kind of here you go, here your assets, here's

152
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:23,320
Speaker 1: the copy, you know, um, but it's not what is

153
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 1: moving the needle, and it's yeah, it's they We've got

154
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,040
Speaker 1: to we've got to figure that out in the industry

155
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,199
Speaker 1: what it does. And I'm it's like literally number one

156
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,559
Speaker 1: on my list of testing and learning and trying new things.

157
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: How have you thought about how you might bring in

158
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 1: press not when the project is necessarily finished, um, but

159
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,360
Speaker 1: from the beginning, so that people may have that sort

160
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: of exclusive look as opposed to an exclusive break. Does

161
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,839
Speaker 1: that make sense? It makes perfect sense. And it's it's

162
00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,240
Speaker 1: another other than killing that press release. It's this get

163
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 1: it's the second most important thing to be at the beginning,

164
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, be there through the process, even the ideation,

165
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: like when you think about who are going to be

166
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,959
Speaker 1: your partners, you know, your media partners be part of

167
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,800
Speaker 1: that that first kickoff conversation, be at the table because

168
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: you are able to capture not only are you able

169
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 1: to capture the journey, whether it's video film, because people

170
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,800
Speaker 1: want a story right, and they want to see how

171
00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: something's created. They just don't want to see it here,

172
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 1: here's your product or your service on launch day, right.

173
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,679
Speaker 1: They it's much more interesting. They feel like they're part

174
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 1: of that journey. And everyone talk about like the behind

175
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,440
Speaker 1: the scenes UM content media love that. They were like,

176
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,680
Speaker 1: do you have any behind the scenes video? Do you

177
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,960
Speaker 1: have any behind the scenes stills? They get or you

178
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 1: bring them behind the scenes. And I have done that,

179
00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,920
Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you when I launched a

180
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 1: campaign a couple of years ago, I brought in three

181
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 1: different media outlets and the coverage for that campaign what

182
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 1: And it's still talked about today. It's because we brought

183
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 1: them in to set and had conversations that day. You know,

184
00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,960
Speaker 1: they got to be part of it, um. And you know,

185
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 1: some some people get very skittish about that, Oh I

186
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 1: don't showing too much. But we're in the age of digital.

187
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,319
Speaker 1: Everyone shows everything. So when you sit down with these

188
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 1: partners from the from the get go and create these

189
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: these very brilliant campaigns and is documented so you had

190
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,840
Speaker 1: it when you go to launch, it's just a better story.

191
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,160
Speaker 1: They're inundated with stories and only yours will stand out.

192
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 1: If you have really layers to it. Well, it's interesting

193
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,440
Speaker 1: too because it feels like earned value is a metric

194
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,640
Speaker 1: these days that is just as important as what you

195
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,199
Speaker 1: expect based on the guarantees of what you're buying, right,

196
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,040
Speaker 1: And so to me, by not having PR COMMS at

197
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,240
Speaker 1: the table from the beginning, you're sort of diluting the

198
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 1: impact of whatever it is that you're creating. Knowing that

199
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 1: everybody's like, what's our viral moment? And people are still

200
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,760
Speaker 1: asking that question, how do you create something that's going

201
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,000
Speaker 1: to how But but people are asking this, but what

202
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: they're asking is how do I generate earned value? So

203
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 1: in the market, I think you know, for every dollar

204
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 1: that I'm putting in, right, what is going to be

205
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,960
Speaker 1: the incremental return? So oftentimes that really requires PR and

206
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,480
Speaker 1: COMMS to be at the table from the begin Absolutely, right,

207
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: you take a media investment, so you have that investment,

208
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 1: but you wanted to always have legs and that is

209
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,040
Speaker 1: the biggest, biggest thing when we go into our paid

210
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 1: media partnerships. I'm sitting there at the table at the

211
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,959
Speaker 1: very beginning, like my mind is already racing, how does

212
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: this have legs? How can you know for your term

213
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:56,840
Speaker 1: take it viral? Where where's their storytelling? Earned storytelling here?

214
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 1: And if you're not at that table at the beginning

215
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 1: those conversation sations, you're you're missing opportunity. You know, um

216
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's something that you would think that

217
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 1: PR and comm should always have a seat at the table.

218
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,840
Speaker 1: I have always believed this because when things when the

219
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 1: larger marketing teams hand things off for their brand teams

220
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 1: hand things off, you're like, wait, well, how how am

221
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 1: I going to maximize this? Pr and comms need to

222
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,400
Speaker 1: always have a seat at that table from the get go,

223
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,560
Speaker 1: from the initial kickoff all the way through execution, because

224
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,440
Speaker 1: there are moments um that along the way that you

225
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 1: could just keep on as things developed and as content

226
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,319
Speaker 1: develops with your partners that you're constantly evolving. Well, I

227
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,480
Speaker 1: think here's the thing for me, Kim Marie is like,

228
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,760
Speaker 1: the story doesn't stop because the plane stopped. I mean,

229
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,439
Speaker 1: that's a that's a whole that's the whole other thing.

230
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 1: And the funny thing is Laura and I were in Vegas,

231
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 1: Baby Vegas earlier this week. It feels like it feels

232
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: like three weeks ago, but we were there earlier this

233
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,439
Speaker 1: week with Nick Drake, and he was saying, you know,

234
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 1: we used to we used to work in this waterfall process.

235
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 1: And he's like, the waterfall process is bullshit and everything

236
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: you just described, like in this simple like we should

237
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 1: have a seat at the table and someone's handing something

238
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 1: off like to me, that whole like organizational flow is

239
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,160
Speaker 1: why people are asking, well, is this one thing gonna

240
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: is this thing going to go viral? Instead of saying

241
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 1: is this a story? Right? Is this an investment in

242
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: the brand, in my consumer and in what they care

243
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 1: about me? Doing that is going to give us legs? People,

244
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about the headline from the beginning, from

245
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 1: the beginning. Work that we've done starts with the headline.

246
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 1: And I think with the headline and yes, yes, yes,

247
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting about that, right is I

248
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 1: think and you were starting to just allude to it,

249
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 1: is like the content or the filter or the narrative

250
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 1: that you know is going to sell in p are

251
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,600
Speaker 1: and to amplify that brand story isn't necessarily what a

252
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 1: creative director is looking for, isn't necessarily what a media

253
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: planner is looking for. So how do you deal with

254
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 1: that tension? The only way we're gonna we're going to

255
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 1: make it and keep and literally keep evolving, is to

256
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 1: keep learning and keep testing and trying always. Obviously it

257
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 1: goes back to having a PR comms person at the

258
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: table from the kickoff. But um, you know we're gonna try.

259
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: You know, we're going to test and learn lots of things. Um.

260
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: I think that we have I think everyone in this

261
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 1: PR industry we have that permission as long it goes back,

262
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 1: as long as we're giving the facts, the correct information

263
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: to the media. How we get it out there? The

264
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,240
Speaker 1: world is our oyster. And what are some things that

265
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,760
Speaker 1: you go like ways you go about actually testing and

266
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 1: learning from a from a PR com standpoint, I think

267
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 1: you really have to do it on on I don't

268
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 1: want to say like smaller and anouncements. You know, you

269
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 1: can start testing and learning when you've invested you know,

270
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousand dollars or media and in a campaign

271
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 1: and talent and paid media. Now that's not the time

272
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 1: to be tested something. But I think when when companies

273
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 1: and brands have a service or a product, you know

274
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: they're constantly putting things out right. I mean I work

275
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 1: in the I guess the fashion lifestyle space, and we're

276
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 1: all we're always releasing something, you know, every month or

277
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: every couple of months. Try it on, you know, a

278
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 1: new product that maybe you're not it doesn't have a

279
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 1: campaign around it, but it's a it's a next generation

280
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,160
Speaker 1: or an evolution. I think when you think about it

281
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: from like a work product, it's like you only see

282
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 1: the giant campaign work and if it's really kick ass

283
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 1: and like you all this amazing coverage and you've done

284
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 1: some really interesting things from a PR and Colm standpoint,

285
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 1: but that usually starts because you did it. You started

286
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: doing components even you lead the ground and I don't

287
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 1: think that way enough out loud. Yeah, yeah, I agree.

288
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,440
Speaker 1: It's and you also it's a little bit of trusting

289
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 1: your gut, like, hey, you know this, this has legs.

290
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 1: I know this has legs. You know I preached this

291
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: all the time. I have friends that mocked me when

292
00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 1: I say this, And it's such a simple statement. Know

293
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 1: your media and know their audience, right, And if you

294
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 1: know you're the media, you know your media and your audience,

295
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 1: and you trust your gut. You know, that's where you

296
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 1: go out and test and learn. Be like, that's where

297
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 1: you should have that confidence. Have you seen data? Right?

298
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 1: So a lot of the marketing decisions or sort of

299
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 1: media planning and buying decisions UM these days have a

300
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: higher dependency obviously on data driven insights. Are you seeing

301
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 1: that impact PR and calms UM or do you still

302
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 1: feel or is it still something that really relies on

303
00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 1: how well you know the industry and that gut fact

304
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 1: or you were just talking about. I look at well,

305
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: depending on what if it's a law campaign, launch, product launch, etcetera.

306
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: But really looking at the media their reach, I look

307
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 1: at all the media and their analytics, and then I

308
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 1: look through past um and say, oh, I know this

309
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 1: media outlet drives a lot of traffic and sales. You know,

310
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,600
Speaker 1: so I'm really from a strategic point. That's how I

311
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 1: kind of pick um pick the media to go out

312
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,640
Speaker 1: to when we like launch um. It's but again there's

313
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,440
Speaker 1: a lot of gray areas still left to kind of uncover.

314
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 1: How does the role of influence impact that list and

315
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,720
Speaker 1: who you you go to pitch right? Can you talk

316
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: about that tension that exists within influence and what that

317
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,359
Speaker 1: looks like when you're having to consider established media brand

318
00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: to sort of scaled individuals. Influence is part of my

319
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 1: strategy for any of the launch of a campaign, a product,

320
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 1: anything that is right there, we build that out. You know,

321
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,199
Speaker 1: it used to be all about that top influencer, you know,

322
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: the man repeller. You know, we love to talk about

323
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: the Man Repeller, but and those and those types of

324
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 1: digital influencers. But what I've been really fascinated by and

325
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,640
Speaker 1: have really stuck into is looking at the micro influencers.

326
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's just been eye opening of what

327
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,919
Speaker 1: the power of a micro influencer. And obviously you know

328
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 1: their rates are lower, but there it's so interesting to

329
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 1: watch how their engagement is high. And if you're if

330
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 1: you're a brand or a company that you know may

331
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: not have big budgets, this this is this isn't something

332
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 1: you need to have into your launch strategy. So you've

333
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: really gone I'm going to call it d T I

334
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: influencer because yes it is. It's all changed. You know,

335
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 1: there's no rules like we're getting to use different you know,

336
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: and there's a lot more paid pieces to getting this

337
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: earned media. There such an important part. We do not

338
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,959
Speaker 1: do a launch without an influencer component to it. So

339
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: what skill set does a modern day pr comms person

340
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: need to have to be effective, be aware, be be

341
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 1: out there in the world, living and listening and experiencing. Well,

342
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 1: we have to let you get back to your vacation.

343
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: But first, but first we're going to do our game

344
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: killed by d I Y Camry. What in the world

345
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: would you kill? What would you buy? And what would

346
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 1: you do yourself? Okay, you know what I'm going to

347
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 1: kill is the traditional press release. I'm so sorry. Yeah

348
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 1: that that was a given. What am I going to buy? Oh?

349
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: I might want to buy away, um, but what would

350
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: I do myself? You know, I'm gonna go back to

351
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: I want to figure out. I'm gonna figure out video

352
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: visual audio pitches short, sweet, you know where you can engage.

353
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to figure out. I've got to

354
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: find some partners to do that. Well, Kimry, if people

355
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with you to talk about

356
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: that fifteen second elevator video pitch, how do they get

357
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 1: in touch with you? They try to get me at

358
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: KASA com k A z Z A k I M

359
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: at hazard count on all social Kimrie, enjoy your trip

360
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: in California. Thank you so much for calling in a

361
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: lot of thank you to Kimry Blackwelder for joining us

362
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: calling it in her vacation. The only thing we were

363
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: missing from this episode were spicy Margarinas said, it um

364
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: so big. Thanks to Kimry. Thank you to friends and

365
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 1: family at Panoply, our producer Dana Matt turk Andy Bowers.

366
00:21:53,359 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: We'll be back in two weeks. Full disclosure. Our opinions

367
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: are our own