Speaker 1: Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Speaker 1: Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher Army host Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2: He is Rams's Jaw I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 2: tuned in to Civic SciTE, Yes.
Speaker 1: You are, and we appreciate you sticking around because we
Speaker 1: are having a fantastic conversation with the one the only
Speaker 1: civil rights attorney, Portia Allen Kyle, the managing director of
Speaker 1: Color of Change for again, for those who are unfamiliar
Speaker 1: to the Color of Changes, the nation's largest online racial
Speaker 1: justice organization. They help people respond effectively to injustice in
Speaker 1: the world, and as a national online force driven by
Speaker 1: seven million members, they move decision makers and corporations and
Speaker 1: government to create a more human and less hostile world
Speaker 1: for black people in America. We're having a conversation about
Speaker 1: the new administration and how that affects social justice organizations
Speaker 1: and the plights of those organizations, hers in particular. And
Speaker 1: a quick note, I want to make sure that I
Speaker 1: say that our Ebony Excellence segment earlier was erroneously credited
Speaker 1: to Forbes. It actually comes from Essence magazine, but right now,
Speaker 1: we're going to get to what comes from Forbes magazine.
Speaker 1: This is our time to show you how to be
Speaker 1: ABA become a better Allied by BLA NQ take it Away.
Speaker 2: A twenty one year old man in New York has
Speaker 2: been cured of sickle cell anemia following treatment with a
Speaker 2: pioneering gene therapy. According to his doctors, New York residents,
Speaker 2: Sebastian Bozil was treated with a pioneering new gene therapy
Speaker 2: approach called Lithgenia, developed by biotech company Bluebird Bio. Mister
Speaker 2: Bozil received the treatment on December seventeenth, twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: and has not had any symptom of sickle cell anemia since,
Speaker 2: leading his doctors to believe that the treatment has likely
Speaker 2: cured the disease. Scle cell anemia is a serious inherited
Speaker 2: disorder of red blood cells, which mostly affects black and
Speaker 2: Hispanic people. There are over one hundred thousand people with
Speaker 2: the disorder in the US, and the condition causes a
Speaker 2: range of symptoms, including blood clots and strokes, and a
Speaker 2: resultant reduction and lifespan of twenty years on average. Is
Speaker 2: caused by inheriting defective copies of a hemoglobin gene, causing hemoglobin,
Speaker 2: which carries oxygen in red blood cells, to be subfunctional.
Speaker 1: The defect causes red.
Speaker 2: Blood cells and effective people to be sickle or crescent
Speaker 2: shaped instead of disshaped as normal, limiting the cell's ability
Speaker 2: to carry oxygen. Sickle red blood cells are also more
Speaker 2: prone to clump together and cause blockages to blood vessels,
Speaker 2: causing severe pain and tissue damage. Previously, people with sickle
Speaker 2: cellinemia have been mostly treated with therapies which can control
Speaker 2: but not cure the disease. Some people have been cured
Speaker 2: by giving them bone marew transplants from external donors, normally
Speaker 2: a close relative without sickle cell anemia, but the procedure
Speaker 2: does not always work comes with a host of side
Speaker 2: effects and a risk of dying according to the Natural
Speaker 2: According to the National Institute of Health, about one in
Speaker 2: twenty children under sixteen receiving bone marrow transplants per sycle
Speaker 2: cellinemia have died, and one of ten of people sixteen
Speaker 2: years or older.
Speaker 1: You think of certain things as kind of like quintessentially American.
Speaker 1: You know, things that people will do no matter what
Speaker 1: because they are American people things that people will get
Speaker 1: no matter what because they are American. And to see
Speaker 1: this administration villainize the Department of Education as though it's
Speaker 1: somehow corrupt, somehow wasteful, you know whatever, without substantiating any
Speaker 1: of those claims, and then you know, just with the
Speaker 1: wave of a pen, dismantled this. This it's now a
Speaker 1: legacy department. You know, you mentioned Brown versus Board of Education,
Speaker 1: which was decades ago. So this is now fundamentally who
Speaker 1: we are as a nation, as a superpower on the
Speaker 1: global stage. It's it's it's it's it's crazy how there's
Speaker 1: a surprising calm associated with it, and in terms of
Speaker 1: the administration, how they handle the optics around it, Like
Speaker 1: the presidents signed that with black children around him, so
Speaker 1: as to say this is not to you know, disproportionately
Speaker 1: affect back black children. This is going to be a
Speaker 1: benefit to all right, And so they got these props
Speaker 1: that they use to you know, it's such a crazy,
Speaker 1: uh time to live in. And I know I can't
Speaker 1: state that enough, but we're stuck here, right and I
Speaker 1: know that can be very frustrating for people, And I
Speaker 1: don't want to pretend like it's not frustrating for us
Speaker 1: who are kind of the voices and are kind of
Speaker 1: leading movements here and there. But you know, for people
Speaker 1: that don't have a microphone and an audience like you
Speaker 1: and I and you have today that still feel like
Speaker 1: doing nothing is insufficient, talk to us about some ways
Speaker 1: that maybe individuals can resis the forces of this administration,
Speaker 1: you know. And I don't want to state your brief here,
Speaker 1: but I do want to mention that, you know, we
Speaker 1: talked about the boycotts, and that's obviously one one way
Speaker 1: that we can go about doing it. But Target has
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've heard about this, but
Speaker 1: Target is pushed back on that, saying, well, the black
Speaker 1: products don't sell, and the people that we've hired or
Speaker 1: that we've kind of put on the store shelves have
Speaker 1: only made products that appeal to black people, and so
Speaker 1: the products don't move as quickly, and so they need
Speaker 1: like more in the way development. That's something to which
Speaker 1: I pushed back and said, you know, you know, if
Speaker 1: you can lose money on a Black Friday with loss
Speaker 1: leaders to get more people in the store, then there's
Speaker 1: a business case that you can make for that. And
Speaker 1: on top of that if you have black products on
Speaker 1: the shelves and you're committed to working with these these
Speaker 1: creators and these black entrepreneurs to develop the businesses alongside
Speaker 1: this island target, then you know you can commit the
Speaker 1: resources and the business strategies and so forth to develop
Speaker 1: the brands. You don't just give up after a couple
Speaker 1: of years. In any event, that's just me kind of
Speaker 1: leading you in the in the direction I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do that. But again, the question is like ways
Speaker 1: that individuals can you know, in your own house, when
Speaker 1: you go to work, you come home, you take care
Speaker 1: of your kids, you put them to sleep, you wake
Speaker 1: up tomorrow, you got to fix the garage, and we
Speaker 1: can what are those people what can they do to
Speaker 1: maybe help all of us resist the forces of this administration?
Speaker 3: You know those you said so many things. No, I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: through my mind. Well, I mean, the.
Speaker 4: First thing that was running through my mind is I
Speaker 4: really wish we could like get aligned to stop allowing
Speaker 4: people to use our babies as props.
Speaker 3: But maybe that's separate conference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, you're not wrong.
Speaker 4: But the second thing that started running through my mind was,
Speaker 4: you know how just not plausible, like just actually not
Speaker 4: believable some of the arguments that these like you know,
Speaker 4: corporations and folks are making and so like, even on
Speaker 4: the on the attacks against diversity, equity and inclusion and
Speaker 4: the administration's position that like these are illegal and you know,
Speaker 4: reverse discrimination. Like if that were to be true, then
Speaker 4: all of these companies across industries, with all of their
Speaker 4: counsel in separate law firms, and all of these colleges
Speaker 4: and all of these programs had to all come to
Speaker 4: the same wrong conclusion about their legality of these programs
Speaker 4: and about you know, what they do. And now, like
Speaker 4: when you really break it down, what had to happen
Speaker 4: to get some of these programs together.
Speaker 3: The idea that they're like all just illegal and you know.
Speaker 4: Running a foul of the law and discriminating against white
Speaker 4: people is like actually kind of laughable as a like
Speaker 4: as a premise. But to the question you actually asked,
Speaker 4: not the question I wanted to answer.
Speaker 3: Like, well do both.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're here.
Speaker 4: It's you know, there is so much people can do
Speaker 4: on an individual basis, and I you know, really will
Speaker 4: say it all matters because there there's levels of engagement.
Speaker 3: Right, Like there's really levels to this.
Speaker 4: And people organizing their family at Thanksgiving is just as
Speaker 4: important as like showing up you know, in the in
Speaker 4: the street for protests. Right like, we all have lanes
Speaker 4: that we occupy.
Speaker 3: We all have we all have a role in those
Speaker 3: lanes and a role that we could play very well.
Speaker 4: Right Like, so if your your starting places, I'm new
Speaker 4: to this trying to learn, then like the best thing
Speaker 4: you can do is go be well informed because our
Speaker 4: people are subject to misinformation. And if your family is
Speaker 4: like my family, you know, we we got the text chats,
Speaker 4: the WhatsApp chains. Some are still sending email from their
Speaker 4: AOL you know accounts like and you know, trying to
Speaker 4: figure out what's real what's not. Got an email from
Speaker 4: my aunt about like our social security, you know, windfall
Speaker 4: and this and that.
Speaker 3: Like we're all.
Speaker 4: Trying to figure out what's true when we're taking in
Speaker 4: different information from all places, some of those places more
Speaker 4: reputable than others. But like anybody that can, you know,
Speaker 4: take the time and do the work. We all have
Speaker 4: that cousin we call when we have a question about
Speaker 4: you know, maybe money or something we have that you
Speaker 4: know person we call when we have a question about
Speaker 4: you know that we trust as a messenger, et cetera.
Speaker 4: And if you're one of those persons, as many of
Speaker 4: us are, on at least one issue, be the reputable
Speaker 4: source and not you know, the source that fans the misinformation,
Speaker 4: right like, they're the second.
Speaker 3: Thing. We need institutions.
Speaker 4: And I don't just say this, you know as Portie
Speaker 4: who is you know, the interim executive director of Color
Speaker 4: of Change. I say this as like someone who understands
Speaker 4: very deeply in an eat from an ecosystem perspective, the
Speaker 4: role that all of these various organizations play. And we
Speaker 4: can't all play the same role, right Like, we need
Speaker 4: someone who is more amenable to the end side who's
Speaker 4: going to kind of do their thing that then allows
Speaker 4: Color of Change from the outside to come in from
Speaker 4: a different angle and go a little harder and push,
Speaker 4: you know, a little further.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: We need organizations that are you know, focused on uh,
Speaker 4: you know, whipping together attorneys. We need folks who are
Speaker 4: focused on the you know, media and narrative. We need
Speaker 4: people that are going to take on those democracy and
Speaker 4: voting fites, who are going to organize students who are
Speaker 4: going to But all of those institutions need funding. And
Speaker 4: resources and more importantly, they need engagement you know from folks,
Speaker 4: and so for folks looking how to you know, do
Speaker 4: something and stand up, become involved whatever that choice is
Speaker 4: for you, find a find an organization and love it
Speaker 4: like love it with your time, love it with your
Speaker 4: resources if you can, love it with your energy and
Speaker 4: your expertise, because we all need reinforcement and you know,
Speaker 4: support from from the community in this moment if we're
Speaker 4: going to weather the storm, because our institutions will be
Speaker 4: under attack, and you know we've seen that in history,
Speaker 4: we've already seen it to start today. The third thing
Speaker 4: that I you know, really in addition to you know,
Speaker 4: kind of being being the educating and being the source
Speaker 4: of you know, good information to you know, becoming involved
Speaker 4: with organizations, et cetera. When see something, say something is
Speaker 4: like maybe a shorthand way to put it, but there
Speaker 4: are oftentimes that we see injustice in any form. Right
Speaker 4: like we're at work and somebody says something really messed
Speaker 4: up and instead of saying, hey, that was wrong, in
Speaker 4: the moment and calling it out will maybe give some private,
Speaker 4: you know, some private consolation to you know, somebody who
Speaker 4: was wronged or heard or discriminated, discriminated against, or aggrieved.
Speaker 4: This is a moment and the hate that we're experiencing,
Speaker 4: the like neo segregationist, the agenda that we're experiencing, thrives
Speaker 4: in silence.
Speaker 3: We have to, you know, speak up.
Speaker 4: We have to push back on these ideas and have
Speaker 4: to be really loud about it, because they will drown
Speaker 4: out the ecosystem. There's just more there aren't folks at
Speaker 4: the same There's no Twitter for like or ex for
Speaker 4: justice at the moment. Right Blue Sky is trying to
Speaker 4: be a thing. It does not have the reach of x.
Speaker 4: It does not have the reach of Facebook. It does
Speaker 4: not have the reach of you know, of Instagram or
Speaker 4: Meta or Reddit or many of them. Yeah, like, the
Speaker 4: infrastructure of hate is deep, and the infrastructure that props
Speaker 4: up right wing agendas and propaganda is really really deep.
Speaker 4: We need to you know, really figure out the ways
Speaker 4: to counterbalance that. And part of that is even in
Speaker 4: those spaces to continue to you know, rise up. Part
Speaker 4: of it is making investments in a different set of
Speaker 4: ecosystem and infrastructure that's going to get to our people
Speaker 4: and find our people where they are.
Speaker 2: I want to stay where we are for a second,
Speaker 2: you spoke about kind of being the source for good information,
Speaker 2: and in the spaces that we all work in, we
Speaker 2: admittedly and knowing we have access to more accurate information
Speaker 2: than most people. The problem I've been facing in my ecosystem,
Speaker 2: and I've shared this with Ramses with increasing frustration by
Speaker 2: the day, is that it seems that no one wants
Speaker 2: to be properly informed. Everybody just wants to be right,
Speaker 2: so they'll post something or blast something off and it'll
Speaker 2: be wrong, and I'll go fact check and do the
Speaker 2: research and bring them accurate information, and they just have
Speaker 2: no interest in the information I'm bringing, even though it's
Speaker 2: far more accurate and far more true. Using our tools
Speaker 2: and our resources to kind of galvanize our communities around
Speaker 2: good information, it seems that all of us have also
Speaker 2: learned that there is wealth in writing, because people who
Speaker 2: are seeking out information do still read. Ramses and I
Speaker 2: are working on a book really about radical candorous allyship
Speaker 2: with intention. Like you said, passive, you can't be a
Speaker 2: passive ally anymore. You can't be a neutral ally anymore.
Speaker 2: You can't just not be racist, you have to be
Speaker 2: anti racist. So we're working on a project now to
Speaker 2: that end. However, you are an author who I think
Speaker 2: a lot more people should be following and should be
Speaker 2: getting more information from. Can you talk to us a
Speaker 2: little bit about advice to thrive by because we want
Speaker 2: listeners to be able to tap in with that as well.
Speaker 4: Oh that first, that's very kind, So thank you.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: One of the lessons and takeaways that I've had across
Speaker 4: like it really actually doesn't matter what role I've been in,
Speaker 4: is that the bench is too small. There are not
Speaker 4: enough of us who are not just where we are now,
Speaker 4: we're you know, already somewhat outnumbered in this capacity, but
Speaker 4: those who are coming up behind. We have not necessarily
Speaker 4: invested the time, the resources, the energy to build up
Speaker 4: that next generation to make sure that when it's you know,
Speaker 4: time to step aside, it's time to step aside, right,
Speaker 4: And I would love nothing more. You know, I'm not
Speaker 4: as young as I used to be and not as
Speaker 4: old as I hope to get right, but I fully
Speaker 4: anticipate and want to be when it's my time to
Speaker 4: step aside, to be outflanked by somebody coming up younger
Speaker 4: who's like, hey, you're not pushing us bold enough, you're
Speaker 4: not taking us far enough, we should be demanding more
Speaker 4: raising the standard and really you know, towing the line
Speaker 4: and so invice to thrive by, you know, was really
Speaker 4: born from that desire on how to build up the bench,
Speaker 4: and particularly for attorneys and for public interest attorneys specifically.
Speaker 3: You know, there isn't really a clear career path, you know,
Speaker 3: for those who want to come into this and do
Speaker 3: this type of work. And there certainly aren't, you know,
Speaker 3: any aren't A lot of cheat codes are kind of
Speaker 3: behind the scenes on like hey, this is you know,
Speaker 3: kind of how it works. Here's how to engage in
Speaker 3: some strategy to get you know, from from where we
Speaker 3: are to where we're going, and wanting to provide some
Speaker 3: of the advice that would otherwise require insider information backgrounds,
Speaker 3: you know, just hidden things that people who you know
Speaker 3: have been in space know, but if you don't have
Speaker 3: access to spaces, or you're the first one from your
Speaker 3: family or the first one you know from your social
Speaker 3: network may just not know that.
Speaker 4: Can help open doors. And like that that was the
Speaker 4: impetus with the goal of you know, really perhaps trying
Speaker 4: in a personal way to open more doors in a
Speaker 4: more lasting and systemic way where one on one. Mentorship
Speaker 4: is never was never going to get to scale as
Speaker 4: much as I love it, and it's very fulfilling. But like,
Speaker 4: we can't mentor ourselves out of systemic injustices, right, and
Speaker 4: so then how do we pass information that allows people
Speaker 4: to take advantage and allows people to engage and equips
Speaker 4: them with the tools that hopefully makes their journey and
Speaker 4: their pathway a little bit easier, Not you know, not
Speaker 4: addicating duties of mentorship and sponsorship altogether, but wanting to
Speaker 4: you know, make impact us a little bit more lasting.
Speaker 2: Poorscha, I first want to say thank you for just
Speaker 2: making time for us. These conversations are so much more
Speaker 2: important than we realize. I think a lot of our constituents,
Speaker 2: a lot of our friends, a lot of our colleagues
Speaker 2: are dealing with this combination of anger, frustration, and hopelessness.
Speaker 2: And we turn out to be the voices that they trust.
Speaker 2: And we know this because people walk up to us
Speaker 2: and tell us, you know, we we are more necessary
Speaker 2: now than we were a few months ago. And as
Speaker 2: hard as it is to accept the gravity of that statement,
Speaker 2: we've heard it enough times to know that it's true.
Speaker 2: So someone like yourself making time to talk to us
Speaker 2: and just inspire us. Because even we have those days
Speaker 2: where we're looking around like the sky is falling and
Speaker 2: we have no idea what to do next. How can
Speaker 2: we support you? Where do we follow you? Where do
Speaker 2: we look for you? If we want to get in
Speaker 2: the support Porsche business, if we want to be your brother,
Speaker 2: get the book, Guards and Allies, and we want more
Speaker 2: people to read this book, tell us, tell us and
Speaker 2: tell listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean you can always find me a color
Speaker 4: change out of work right like go you know, join in.
Speaker 4: We are on some of the platforms we campaign against,
Speaker 4: and so you can also find us on X like
Speaker 4: on Instagram, on Facebook, where our people are frankly, you know,
Speaker 4: on the in the corners of the interwebs. The one
Speaker 4: thing I will say in terms, I'm so happy and
Speaker 4: like appreciative of the opportunity to be here, and I
Speaker 4: would say it is, you know, folks like y'all, and
Speaker 4: you know shows like this that are how we are
Speaker 4: going to get our people back. That won't happen talking
Speaker 4: to people, you know through the New York Times and
Speaker 4: the Washington Post like that just isn't where our folks
Speaker 4: are and so it is. You know ya, y'all play
Speaker 4: such an important role in the ecosystem. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 4: I've said ecosystem a thousand times, but it is such
Speaker 4: an important role in any way, you know, to be
Speaker 4: supportive to you know, engaged, to let folks know about
Speaker 4: our work, keep people informed, and let people know how
Speaker 4: to get engaged.
Speaker 3: Glad to be able to do so well.
Speaker 1: We just followed you, sent you a message, so we
Speaker 1: are definitely going to lock in you know, we we
Speaker 1: would love to have you back on this show. We'd
Speaker 1: love to have you on any one of our other
Speaker 1: shows or all of them. We'd love to continue to
Speaker 1: build with you. This is a moment where we are
Speaker 1: you know, We've always been about you know, solidarity and
Speaker 1: kind of galvanizing all of this energy, you know from
Speaker 1: folks who want to make the world more equitable for
Speaker 1: all of us. But now it's not just a nice thought.
Speaker 1: Now it's kind of mission critical. We kind of need
Speaker 1: each other more than everything. So we'll definitely do our part.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, we're following you. Our hope is that
Speaker 1: we can continue these conversations moving forward. But for now,
Speaker 1: you know, I just want to say thank you. On
Speaker 1: behalf of me and Q and Chris and all of
Speaker 1: us here at the Black Information Network. Thank you very
Speaker 1: much for coming on to share your time and your
Speaker 1: your brilliance. And you know, the work that you have done,
Speaker 1: work that your organization has done, the work that you
Speaker 1: are doing, work you continue to do. It's a joy,
Speaker 1: it's an honor. And you know, count us among you
Speaker 1: know your brothers. Uh, you know when you need we
Speaker 1: need a little extra on this side of the world
Speaker 1: and the media side of the world or whatever, because
Speaker 1: we got the bullhorn still too, and the batteries do work.
Speaker 1: So we did the ground any sign right once again the.
Speaker 4: Day of Action and so any you know, anyway, if
Speaker 4: you can highlight their events going on across the country.
Speaker 4: Color of Change is you know, one of the sponsors
Speaker 4: of that Day of action. It's really about hands off
Speaker 4: our medicaid, hands off our student loans, sure, hands off
Speaker 4: our healthcare, like hands off food for our children, and
Speaker 4: hands off snap And so if you can amplify that
Speaker 4: gets to attend and hopefully turn out that be wonderful.
Speaker 1: Oh, we are all over it. Don't worry about that.
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of what we do. We do believe
Speaker 1: in direct action around here, so I'll leave you to
Speaker 1: interpret that for your own purposes, all right, and that
Speaker 1: is going to do it for us here on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: So we appreciate you tuning in once again. I've been
Speaker 1: your host. Rams' Jah.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsy's jaw king Ramses John's how I refer
Speaker 2: to him. I am q Ward and I appreciate you
Speaker 2: guys once again tuning in with us on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, and just so you know, that actually is
Speaker 1: my name. It's all my birth certificate, so King is
Speaker 1: not just flattery around here. It actually is my name. Anyway,
Speaker 1: do us a favor. Hit the website download this in
Speaker 1: any previous episodes. We need subscribers for the podcast as well,
Speaker 1: so please subscribe. Subscribe, subscribe, even if you can't listen
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Speaker 1: follow me on all social media at Rams's joh
Speaker 2: I Am Qward on all social media as well, and
Speaker 2: we are civic cipher on other platforms, so lock him
Speaker 2: with us there as well, and until next week you'll peace.