WEBVTT - Victims, Heroes & Learners with Rabbi Sharon Brous 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.160 Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you. 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:05.280 I'm great, you're here in person, I know, and. 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:07.120 I'm dehydrated because I just got off a plane. Oh 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.399 I just found my visiline and my bra look at that. 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.080 When I yeah, when I have my little Plaine meal, 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.440 which I have now started eating plain food because that's 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.040 how desperate I am. I have no food in whistler, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.360 my refriger. I mean, I have food, but I just 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:22.360 can't cook anything, so I just don't really eat. All 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.880 I have are protein shakes and protein bars. And it's 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.280 really one of the most unhealthy times of my life. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.280 And Margarita is I mean, yeah, I'm just like, oh, 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.599 I need food, and then I'm like, here's a protein. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.040 Sometimes you need just like lazy food. That's just like Okay, 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:38.280 this is here. I can put it in my body 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:39.279 and like keep going for the day. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.159 That's right. That's right. So between that, what else has 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:44.080 been happening? Yeah, So I came back to La. I'm 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.120 doing a guest star role in this show called Not 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.800 Dead Yet on ABC and Hulu. My friend is the 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:51.479 producer on it and asked me to come do a 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:53.239 guest star So I came back for two days to 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.480 do that and then a little photo shoot for my 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.720 Netflix is a Joke Festival, which is on May eleventh. Fantastic. 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.760 I am very excited about your Netflix's joke show. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.160 Oh oh, it's going to be so fun. Yes, yes, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:06.560 I'm going to sneak on in there. And I was 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.360 in Saskatoon and Winnipeg, Canada this week. Saskatoon sounds like 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.960 it's a made up place. It sounds like Sascat's Asakatakaku. 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.959 And they are two cities with sheets of ice. So 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.319 when you look out, you are in the plains of 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.840 Canada with just two ice sheets. So there's that. Yeah, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.680 just pretty flat and cold. I had to sleep under 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.640 the covers with a robe on and my hat, my 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.280 two as they say in Canada. And so those are 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.959 the two probably coldest cities I will have been too. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:36.960 But you made it. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.119 I did. I made it. 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.120 Now did you do super Bowl party anything like that? 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.000 I did go to a Super Bowl party. I skied yesterday. Well, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:45.280 it took me a lot of time to get ski 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:46.880 because I have the twins on the weekends because I'm 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.880 a single parent. Actually no, I'm not a single parent. 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.280 My buddy's the mother and I'm the father, so I 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.640 have the girls on the weekend. So first I went skiing, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.360 but that didn't really I didn't get very far skiing 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.840 because I got stuck at a bar at the Umbrella 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.880 Bar Unwhistir and then I so I didn't get on 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.200 the mountain till our skiing. Well yes, during I didn't 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:07.760 get on the mounta until twelve. Then I went to 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:09.480 the Umbrella Bar and then I was there till one 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.560 thirty and then we went skiing and there was just 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.440 everyone was skiing out, and so we decided to go 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.480 back to the Umbrella Bar and wait for everyone to 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:18.840 ski out. And then I had to pick up my 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.799 daughter at four, so I have to well she's actually 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.560 my son, but we call her my she's a girl, 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.840 but we call her my son. And so I had 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:28.160 to go pick her up and bring her to a 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:29.800 super Bowl party because there was going to be a 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.080 cutie piet to super Bowl party that she wanted to meet, 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:33.920 so obviously that's a priority. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.280 Yeah, then you can like casually snuggle on the couch 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.560 a little bit, or you're not really snuggling, but you're like, oh. 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.120 Yeah, yeah, they had a little casual snuggle. So that 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.079 was cute and it was worth it. And then I came. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.240 I left before the game ended, but I saw that 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.600 the Chiefs won, and Taylor Swift rigged the whole thing. Apparently, 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:54.400 of course, all conservative news outlets the Super Bowl. Okay, well, 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.520 our guest today is an author. She's a spiritual leader 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:02.200 and the founder and your rabbi at e Car, which 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.120 is a non denominational Jewish congregation based in la And 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.360 everyone I know has talked to me about this woman 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.320 and how amazing she is. So I thought, okay, let's 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.240 have her on. And she wrote this beautiful book that 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.280 I just read. You read it. It's gorgeous, right, like, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.280 I love the way she wrote. I'm writing a lot 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.480 about that stuff in my book. So it was very resonated. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.840 It's called the Amen Effect. It's ancient wisdom to mend 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:29.120 our broken hearts and world. So please welcome Rabbi Sharon Brouse. Hello, 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.480 good morning, Hi, Thank you so much for joining us today. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:35.080 I'm so happy to be with you. 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.680 We have so many people in comment that go to 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.400 synagogue with you, and I have never been, and so 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:43.120 many of my Jewish friends are like, oh my god, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.200 you would love her. You guys have so much in common. 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:46.400 Yeah, you got to come. 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:48.440 I will. I know, I one day I will. I'm 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.480 never in la, that's the problem. So I just finished 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.040 your book, The Amen Effect, which was really moving. There 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.200 are many sentiments to it, but the big takeaway from me, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.800 and there's something that really resonated with me, was the 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.119 constant theme of connectivity and showing up. I mean, there's 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.240 a lot of ways to show up for people, but 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.560 just the act of showing up itself and what that 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.720 can do, how that can help a person who is dying, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.640 or is grieving, or is just in any sort of 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:23.520 emotional trouble or trauma. So tell me, like, is this 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:28.880 something that you've obviously learned throughout your rabbinical training and 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:33.160 practicing and being a rabbi, But is this something that 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:34.360 comes naturally to you? 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.480 What a great question. Yeah. I think I think on 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.080 some level I was this you know, kind of empathic 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.400 five year old. I mean, I do. I think that 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.440 I was a person growing up who when I saw pain, 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.360 it pained me. And I always felt, like, you know, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.440 I wanted to do whatever I could to help people, 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.880 and even in sometimes unhelpful ways. I think so, But 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.960 I think the idea of moving toward pain instead of 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.960 running away from it is for many of us as counterinstinctual, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.640 and even for people like me who feel pain deeply, 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.359 we often pull away from folks who are struggling and 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.279 suffering because for lots of good reasons. I mean, we're 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.599 afraid that we're going to say the wrong thing, we 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.880 think that we'll be a burden, and they don't actually 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.520 want us or need us there, Chelsea, I think we 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.360 think that people's pain is contagious, and if we get 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.280 too close to someone suffering, it forces us to think 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.200 about how vulnerable we are, and that's really hard for 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.520 people to come to terms with. And so what ends 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.000 up happening is that we really retreat from each other, 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.640 precisely in the moment that we need each other the most, 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.960 both that the person who's suffering needs to be connected 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.679 and also that the people who are doing okay really 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.560 need to be of service, but instead pull away from 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:54.320 those kind of really deep and meaningful encounters. And it 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:55.679 hurts all of us. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.760 Yeah, because it is so it's a gift that you're 0:05:57.760 --> 0:05:59.960 giving to the person and that you're giving to yourself, 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.120 and I think many people don't necessarily see it that 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.040 way because they haven't practiced it enough. And I remember 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.400 a friend of mine's partner dying a few months ago 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.680 and another friend of mine saying, should I don't think 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.960 I'm just gonna wait to reach out And I said, no, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.000 you have to reach out right away, Like it doesn't 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.719 and he said no, she's consumed with texts and she's 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.880 consumed and everyone's reaching out to her. And it's like, 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.280 you shouldn't even be thinking about any of that. That's 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.640 not your you know what I mean. That's it's so 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.640 important to like register that you're available for that person 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.960 who's going through something. In my opinion, I mean, that's 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.039 the thing I'm best at, is showing up in times 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.440 of turmoil when other people want to look away. That 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.440 is the strength of mind. And I take a lot 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.360 of pride in it because a lot of people think 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.200 it can be meddlesome. And it's like, well, it's not 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.520 meddlesome when you really care about somebody and you're just 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.440 they're giving yourself and so like I'm trying to squeeze 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.880 them for details and information, it's actually being available, being 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:56.720 there and sitting next to somebody and the withness that 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.159 you talk about in your book is so important for 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:01.039 the human spirit. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.120 Yeah, and we have to be present in ways they're 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.120 attentive to the needs of the person who's struggling and suffering. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.160 And someone just told me the other day that when 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:09.880 she had suffered a lot, she had a friend who 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.080 came right into her house and got into bed with 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.160 her and snuggled her, and the whole time she was thinking, 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:15.920 can you get out of my house? I don't want 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:17.840 you to be here, like this isn't what I need, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.080 this is what you need. And so I think our 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.320 responsibility is to try to be attuned to what the 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.560 other person needs, but to err on the side of presence, 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:28.440 to err on the side of presence. And I write 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.160 in the book about you know, one of the ways 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:34.160 that I learned this was because my beloved Rabbi Marcello, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.280 who's so dear to so many people, his mother died 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.280 and I literally remember thinking the same thing that your 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.120 friend thought. I thought, he is just burdened right now 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.680 by all the love and all the lasagna and all 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.440 the lingering hugs, And so I just wrote him a 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.920 little note, but I did not fly in for the funeral. 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.920 I didn't call, and afterwards he said to me. A 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.680 few months later, when I saw him, he said, you 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.200 really failed me. He said I needed you and you 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.000 weren't here for me. And when I heard I felt 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.320 so defensive. And I had all these great reasons why 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.400 I think. I had little kids, I had a community, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.800 I had work, you know, and I finally realized this 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:10.800 was a gift. He was saying to me, like, don't 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.200 assume that you know that I don't need you. Just 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.040 be there, and so we can be there in a 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.600 way that actually speaks to the needs of the person 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.640 who were going to a kind of like light touch 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.080 presence that lets people know that we love them and 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:28.280 that they're not navigating these moments of real hardship alone, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.360 but that we will be here and will be here 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.400 with relentless love and presence in a way that actually 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.640 suits the needs of the person who's going through this 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:38.600 time of suffering. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.559 And also, what a gift Rabbi Barcelo gave you by 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.040 his giving you his honesty instead of just being like, oh, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.360 that's not a friend of mine anymore, because that's another 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.280 thing people do when people don't show up for them 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.880 in their times of strife, they're like, oh, that person's 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.280 dead to me. He said to you, you failed me. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.920 Next time you better be there. That's right, is what 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:56.800 he said. And that's a. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.520 Gift all It's such a gift because I think that 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.080 we also think that our relationships are supposed to be 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:05.640 supportive in the sense that you know, I need you, 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.200 I need you to support me and to help me 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.160 see why I did this right. And instead, what he's 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.120 teaching me is that real what he taught me is 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.560 that real friendship is sometimes saying to someone, you know, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.920 here's a way that you failed me, and I know 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.360 that you can do better. That that's actually a gift 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.000 of real love, which which connects to something that I 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:27.720 speak about in chapter two about the idea that I 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.160 mean the first person was created alone, and it's the 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.280 first thing in the Hebrew Bible and the terror that 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.880 God says is not good that you know every day 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:36.240 at the end of at the end of every day, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.560 it's good, it's good, it's good, it's really good. And 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.880 then it says it's not good for a person to 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.480 be alone, which doesn't mean that a person should be 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.600 married or should be partner. It means that we shouldn't 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.320 be fundamentally alone in the world. That we should have 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.959 someone who we can let in, who can see us, 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:53.679 and who we can see. And that could be a 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.720 sister or a friend, or a therapist or an aunt, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.160 a grandma. I mean, it could be just somebody who 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.200 we allow to see. But the language that the text 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.640 us is to see us by being opposite us, which 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.679 might mean to see our beauty, but also to see 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.720 our brokenness, our bruises, our failures, our flaws, and not 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.160 to run away from us when they encounter those things, 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.600 but instead to say, you know, hey, I really needed 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.440 more from you than you were able to give me. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.880 That that could be an incredible gesture of love because 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.920 it helps us grow. Those kind of relationships are the 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:25.800 ones we grow from. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.800 Yeah, I always think that when anyone ever says that 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.840 person's dead to me, it's like you're missing an opportunity 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.480 to explain that you'd be willing to give them another 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.800 chance if they actually saw the situation in a more 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.680 holistic sense instead of from just their side. So it 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.000 is kind of always a missed opportunity. Actually, one of 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.079 my friends who I know is listening and we're talking 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.280 about you, so I'll talk to you about this later. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.880 She's gonna be like, were you talking about me? Yes? Yeah, 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.560 talk about the story about together, separateness aloneess, because in 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.480 your book you talk about Adam and Eve and what 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.920 it's in the Tora about that. Talk a little bit 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.720 about that. I had never read that before. 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.200 I mean, one of the most It's an incredible story 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.000 that comes from this is a midrash, an ancient rabbinic 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.920 commentary to the Torah that's maybe fifteen hundred and seventeen 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.000 hundred years old, and it tells this. It imagines what 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.360 happened at the end of the sixth day of creation. 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.439 This is the first day that human beings were alive. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.720 We were human beings were created on the sixth day, 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.680 according to the narrative of the Torah. And so the 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.440 sun starts to set and they've never seen darkness before. 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.679 And as the sun is coming down, Adam, the first person, 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.440 just starts freaking out and he does what we do 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.240 when we encounter darkness for the first time. He starts catastrophizing, right, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.280 and he thinks, oh my god, it's not just darkness, 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.280 it's the end of the world. And he does what 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.080 we do when we see darkness, which is he blames 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:51.680 himself for it, and he thinks, what did I do 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.559 to deserve this? And maybe I did something wrong, and 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.080 maybe this is all my fault, and now everything's lost. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:02.120 And the story says that Eve heard him weeping and 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.680 wailing and crying as the night descended, and she just 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.200 went and she sat right across from him, and she 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.640 just wept with him and held him all night and 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.480 until the dawn came. And I think that the story asks, 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.200 it challenges us to ask this question of ourselves, like 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.040 who will be with you through the dark night of 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.400 the soul? Because everybody has these dark nights? And will 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:29.320 we let somebody into the intimacy of that heartache in 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.240 order to just be with us, not to fix us, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.679 not to try to say, Adam, don't worry the sun's 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.160 going to come up in the morning, because she didn't 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.920 know that either, but just to sit with us and 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.000 weep with us through the dark night, because often there 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.640 is joy does come in the morning, right, I mean, 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.360 there often is a morning. There's not always a new 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.480 dawn that comes. As I also speak about later in 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.560 the book that after some kinds of losses and some 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.400 kinds of struggles. There isn't some bright new day that 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.320 now we can start again, and then our challenge is 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.800 to find the blessing even in the dark night. But 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.080 very often there is a new dawn that emerges, but 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:06.959 the fact of the new dawn doesn't make it any 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.720 easier to make it through the long night. The presence 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.959 of another person who just loves you and cares about 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.360 you is what helps us. And by the way, to 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.240 contrast with the friend who climbs into bed and cuddles 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.040 when the last thing you want is to be cuddled 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.960 by somebody. If you're a person who wants to experience 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.280 your grief differently than that, maybe you don't want a 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.520 foot massage. Maybe you just want to, you know, like 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:29.040 you just want to. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.160 Always want a foot message. I don't know where the 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.920 fuck is happening. I need a foot massage, and I'll 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:35.640 take one from anyone. 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.960 Ever, anyone. But maybe you're one of the rare people 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.720 who doesn't want a foot massage, but that's what your 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:42.600 friend wants to get. But I'm going to just like 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.080 there's a there's a beautiful story that I that I 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.880 found out about years years years after it happened. But 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:50.960 we had a tragic death in our community of someone, 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.760 a young person was really beloved to die by suicide 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.560 and the family found his body on Friday, and it 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.880 was I mean, the reverberative trauma in the community, like 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.640 the It was just a terrible, terrible loss. I write 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.160 about him a little bit in the book. He was 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.000 a healer, and I think he took a lot of 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.120 the pain of his patients in the world into his 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:16.400 body and it just kind of metastasized inside his body. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.080 But I found out years later that a couple in 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.360 my community knew about the loss. They weren't very close 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.920 with either the person who died or his family, but 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.200 they called the mother the following week on Friday because 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.640 they just assumed, like, this is going to be really hard. 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.320 Fridays are going to be really hard for her. And 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.440 then they called again the next Friday, and then the 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.360 next Friday, and they literally called her every single Friday 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.440 for three years, and now it's been almost six years. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.240 And they called every single week, just sometimes for five minutes, 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.960 sometimes for half an hour. They connected because they wanted 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.320 her to know that they were not going to abandon her, 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.440 that they knew that this was a hard time. And 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.600 so that's the kind of sort of relentless love in 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.240 showing up that doesn't actually intrude on someone's privacy and 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.280 doesn't make it about your need as the caregiver rather 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.760 than the person's need as the recipient of the care. 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:09.840 But it's just a gesture of love to say, like, 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.360 I haven't forgotten that your son died, and I know 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.200 that you're thinking about it every day. I'm also thinking 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.320 about it. I'm right here with you with love, and 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.880 I think we can give each other those gifts of 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:22.920 love much more than we do, and much more than 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:23.560 we think we can. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.560 It's kind of like the strength that people have when 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.160 they're like when you see the hostages, families like Hirsh's mother, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.920 when you see people who are able to comport themselves 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:39.160 through what they're going through, it's almost like you're tapping 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:40.960 into a part of yourself that you didn't even know 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.800 was there, you know, Like it's kind of it's analogous 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:48.400 to what you're describing. I think, because all of us 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.560 have this like reservoir of strength, right and when we 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.960 lose something, or we're losing something, you know, we can 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.960 all handle it. In different ways. But we can also 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.040 always surprise ourselves and each other in the way in 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.920 which we do handle things, and that you can like 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.520 muster up the courage and the strength to charge forward 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.680 just when you think you don't have another step. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.440 Left, right, right. And what Rachel has demonstrated Hersh's mother 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.240 through this time is I mean, I think she is 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.040 a prophet in our time because she has been able 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.960 to give words to the anguish of a mother who's 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.480 in profound grief and sort of suspend it between life 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.280 and death. I mean, she has no idea, and even 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.880 through that, she has been able to lift her gaze 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.560 and imagine a different kind of future. I mean, she's 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:43.680 writing poetry about sitting with her with a Palestinian woman, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.280 both of them elderly, wrinkles on their face from laughing 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:51.080 so much together, and you know, their teeth brown from 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.160 all the tea that they drank together, watching their sons 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.360 and their grandchildren playing together. Like she she's calling us 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.320 to imagine a different in the future, even as she's 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:06.280 grappling with the most unimaginably painful reality. And that's pretty 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.520 extraordinary and one of the things that that makes me 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.199 think of when is that one of the reasons that 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.480 people stay away from the pain is because they say 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.359 they don't want to trigger the bereaved. They don't want 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.719 to trigger the person who's experiencing laws because maybe you're 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.440 having a good day and you're not thinking about your 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.800 child or your you know, or your loved one who's died, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.439 or you're not thinking about your your breast cancer or 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.240 your you know, whatever illness you're struggling with, or whatever 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.919 worry you're holding. But the fact is, we know that 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.879 when we're going through those periods of darkness, when we 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.720 are bereft and bereaved, we're thinking about it all the time, 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.240 and it just appears like the whole world is moving 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.200 in the other direction without even any awareness that we are, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.080 as Rachel Goldberg says, living on a different planet. And 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.679 so what we're doing when we show up, as we're saying, 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.480 I see you on your planet, and I acknowledge that 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.440 you're moving in a different direction than I am, and 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.200 I don't want you to feel like you are alone 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.600 in this moment. Even as I continue with my life, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.840 I still see you and the pain that you're holding 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:09.359 in yours. 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.000 Okay, on that note, we're going to take a break 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:20.240 and we'll be right back, and we're back. 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.719 If you are the person who is bereaved or who's grieving, 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:26.960 or who's going through a hard time, we get a 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.960 lot of emails on the show from people who are 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.760 lost and grieving. What would you say to someone about 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.560 how to reach out to that eve who can come 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.680 sit and weep with them, or to someone when they 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.439 know they need help but they feel like, well, I 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.000 should just kind of be doing it on my own. 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.320 I don't want to bother them that sort of thing. 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.640 So thank you for that question, Catherine. One of the 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.080 spiritual practices that I write in the back of the 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.080