Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Interview Edition.
Speaker 1: Very excited about this one, you guys, because I have
Speaker 1: Steve Hyden in his house, not in my house. Where
Speaker 1: you Where are you from? Where are you calling in from?
Speaker 1: I am just right outside of Minneapolis. Okay, that's rock
Speaker 1: and roll town. Yeah, where are you? I'm in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: a nothing great rock and roll town. There we go.
Speaker 1: And for those of you, for the uninitiated, the reason
Speaker 1: I keep talking about rock and roll already is because
Speaker 1: Steve is the co host of one of my favorite
Speaker 1: podcasts here on our own network called Rivals. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's about and I've talked about it a lot on
Speaker 1: the show, so people kind of know it. But it's
Speaker 1: about um famous kind of music beefs in the industry
Speaker 1: from kind of spawned from a book that you wrote
Speaker 1: called your Favorite Band Is Killing Me? Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And thank you for having me on your show, by
Speaker 1: the way, And I'm thrilled that you like Rivals. It's
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to do. You know. It's funny
Speaker 1: because when this show first came up, it wasn't actually
Speaker 1: my idea to do the show. I Heart Radio approached
Speaker 1: me that I think they already had the idea that
Speaker 1: they wanted to do a show about music ravelries, and
Speaker 1: then they knew I wrote this book, so they thought
Speaker 1: I'd be a good host for it. Interesting, and I
Speaker 1: thought like, are we gonna have enough rivalries like to
Speaker 1: do a show? And it's amazing, like as we get
Speaker 1: into this that there's like still tons of good beefs
Speaker 1: that we haven't even gotten to yet. And we've almost
Speaker 1: on like fifty episodes, so I mean there's like a
Speaker 1: lot of conflict in music is Fortunately it's pretty great.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I kind of wondered the same thing.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, what kind of legs does
Speaker 1: this have? And then you know, I'm listening basically on
Speaker 1: a weekly basis. Um, I am a little bit behind
Speaker 1: right now. I'm typing it in now so I can
Speaker 1: look and see what the most recent episodes are. But
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of new rivalries myself, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: now there's there's plenty left to explore from these guys,
Speaker 1: right And you know the thing too that really opens
Speaker 1: it up is, you know, just realizing that pretty much
Speaker 1: like every great band had some sort of like a
Speaker 1: rivalry within the band, Like you know, there'd be like
Speaker 1: two songwriters who feuded or they're you know that's the
Speaker 1: singer and the guitar player had a feud, you know,
Speaker 1: so like those, like like intra band rivalries I think
Speaker 1: are my favorite, Like where it's like two people in
Speaker 1: the same band who can't stand each other, but they
Speaker 1: have to make it work, you know. Yeah, it's inter
Speaker 1: thing I'm looking now. The most recent when I just
Speaker 1: listened to was UM and I kind of jumped around
Speaker 1: at this point was Sting versus the Police, just because
Speaker 1: I'm such a Police fan, And it's such an interesting
Speaker 1: thing where these um two guys, I mean three guys
Speaker 1: that weren't best friends and two guys seemed like they
Speaker 1: really just didn't like each other. Yeah, and like it
Speaker 1: just the combination of people doesn't really make any sense
Speaker 1: on on paper. You know, you have, uh, this drummer
Speaker 1: who was in a prog rock band. You have the
Speaker 1: bass player who was already playing jazz music you know
Speaker 1: before like the Police was really Stings only rock band
Speaker 1: that he ever played in. And Andy Summers, who was
Speaker 1: like almost forty years old, like when the Police are
Speaker 1: crazy kicked off, and yet um, they come together and
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, what's the catchier band and the Police? Like,
Speaker 1: what's an easier band to like than the Police? It
Speaker 1: just came together and created this very accessible, popular sound,
Speaker 1: and you know that's the magic of music. Like why
Speaker 1: do things like that work? You know who knows? Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally it. Um. I mean I'm kind of have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a bit of taste in my mouth
Speaker 1: over the Police because I went and saw that reunion
Speaker 1: tour and just you know, I mean, the music was fine,
Speaker 1: but it just felt so phoned in. At least at
Speaker 1: the show where I was at. They came in from
Speaker 1: clearly separate entrances. You got the idea that they had
Speaker 1: separate rooms, got on separate in separate limos, and literally
Speaker 1: only saw each other on stage, and then you could
Speaker 1: just feel the lack of love on stage and that sucked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's crazy. I mean, you say you're from Atlanta.
Speaker 1: I I co wrote a book with my friend Steve
Speaker 1: Gorman about one of the great Atlanta bands in my opinion,
Speaker 1: the Black Crows. Yeah, I want to talk about that too,
Speaker 1: And you know, I still love the Black Crows, even
Speaker 1: though I like worked on this book and it's just
Speaker 1: about how awful things were in the band, and there's
Speaker 1: like lots of things that Steve told me that aren't
Speaker 1: in the book, Like there's things that he couldn't put
Speaker 1: in there because they were so bad. And yet and
Speaker 1: yet I still like the band. So I feel like
Speaker 1: I have a pretty high tolerance for musicians not liking
Speaker 1: each other and then that ruining the band for me,
Speaker 1: because I definitely think that there's like some people who
Speaker 1: like shouldn't read biographies because I think for some people
Speaker 1: that there's this idea that like a band is a
Speaker 1: family or like a gang, and when you find out
Speaker 1: that in reality, you know, and especially for the bands
Speaker 1: that are round for a long time, they always end
Speaker 1: up disliking each other. And I think that's kind of natural.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, thinking it is like a family,
Speaker 1: or you know, think of like how common is it
Speaker 1: to make a friend when you're like sixteen, seventeen, eighteen
Speaker 1: years old and still be friends with them when you're fifty.
Speaker 1: You know, like that's a pretty unique thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I for I have some childhood friends still, but like
Speaker 1: I don't see them every day. I'm not in a
Speaker 1: band with them. If I if I did see them
Speaker 1: every day, maybe we wouldn't be friends anymore. Uh So
Speaker 1: just uh, I mean, I think the thing with the show,
Speaker 1: it's great for music fans, but I also think it's
Speaker 1: just an interesting show about human relationships, you know, and
Speaker 1: like totally, and you just see how certain patterns recur.
Speaker 1: No matter what kind of band it is. You know,
Speaker 1: it could be a metal band, it could be a
Speaker 1: country band or funk band, whatever, people still have the
Speaker 1: same hang ups and you know, wanting power or feeling
Speaker 1: like you're underappreciated, underpaid, you know, insecurity, you know, feeling
Speaker 1: like you're not getting their respect from this person that
Speaker 1: is supposed to love you, and how it just eats
Speaker 1: at you for years and then it just blows up,
Speaker 1: you know, like a decade or two later. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really sad. I mean because bands, you know, when bands
Speaker 1: get together in especially when you're in us a lover
Speaker 1: like we are and like so many people are, it's
Speaker 1: usually you know the case of like you know, there
Speaker 1: are always the outliers, like the Pixies who all just
Speaker 1: answered an ad um, And I assume there will be
Speaker 1: a Kim Deal versus Black Francis or the Pixies episode
Speaker 1: at some point. But that's an outlier. You know. Usually
Speaker 1: people get together because they are friends, because they have
Speaker 1: similar sensibilities and they love each other, and to see
Speaker 1: those relationships fracture is really kind of depressing. Um. I
Speaker 1: think that. I think if I think the people the
Speaker 1: you two's and the R. E. M s did it
Speaker 1: right and that they were like, listen, we're a band
Speaker 1: and we're all gonna divide this thing up equally and
Speaker 1: there's never gonna be a question about about payment and
Speaker 1: who makes more and who writes more stuff. And from
Speaker 1: that point, all you have to do is have a
Speaker 1: uh a chief songwriter who can live with that, because
Speaker 1: that's a lot of times where it goes wrong is
Speaker 1: a few years in someone's like, man, I'm doing all
Speaker 1: the work and these guys like the drummers not even
Speaker 1: writing ship and so so why am I splitting my
Speaker 1: thing up? You know a piece? Yeah, that's definitely a
Speaker 1: huge thing. I also think that the bands that stick
Speaker 1: around with all the original members are the bands like
Speaker 1: where each person knows what their role is and they're
Speaker 1: and they're okay with that. Like you mentioned you too,
Speaker 1: and like Larry Mowen Jr. Isn't causing a stink because
Speaker 1: he wants to be the singer, you know, he's not.
Speaker 1: He's not like pushing into Yeah, he's not. He's not
Speaker 1: pushing like to have his songs put to the forefront.
Speaker 1: Like he understands that Bono was the singer. The edges
Speaker 1: like the main music guy and he's the drummer or
Speaker 1: you know. I I just wrote a book about Radiohead,
Speaker 1: and like radio Heads another band that like all the
Speaker 1: same members, the same you know, throughout their entire history.
Speaker 1: And that's another thing where it's like, yeah, Tom York,
Speaker 1: he's the songwriter. Johnny Greenwood is the guy who like
Speaker 1: helps realize his idea Sonically. The guys in the rhythm
Speaker 1: section are the rhythm section, and O'Brien is like the
Speaker 1: texturalist guy. And they all know their roles and they're
Speaker 1: comfortable with it. And in the bands where that's not true,
Speaker 1: that's where you have problems, like where the bass player
Speaker 1: wants to say and he or he wants to be
Speaker 1: the guy on the album cover, not the singer. All
Speaker 1: those sort of petty jealous eyes that come to the four, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. And radio Heads one of my favorite bands.
Speaker 1: And I do have that book, um, and it's sitting
Speaker 1: on my nightstand right now, and it is your fault.
Speaker 1: I haven't read it. It's called um this Isn't Happening,
Speaker 1: and it's mainly about the making of Kid a one
Speaker 1: of the just landmark albums, although it seems like radio
Speaker 1: Head puts out nothing but landmark albums. Moonshape Pool is
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. Um, and that's the most recent.
Speaker 1: But I got into the Bob Spitz Beatles book on
Speaker 1: your recommendation from the show, and that you know, the
Speaker 1: breadth of that book. Uh, it has been a bit
Speaker 1: of a slog, a fund slog, but it's long as hell,
Speaker 1: and so that why Radiohead is still sitting on my nightstand.
Speaker 1: But that's next up for me. Well, it's crazy because um,
Speaker 1: I just picked up I don't know if you're familiar
Speaker 1: with this, Like I think his name is Mark Leuisan.
Speaker 1: He's like a big Beatles historian and he's working on
Speaker 1: like just a mammoth Beetles book that's gonna be three
Speaker 1: volumes and he just he put out the first volume.
Speaker 1: I think it was like six years ago and that's
Speaker 1: like nine pages and it's just about the Beatles up
Speaker 1: until like nineteen three, you know, so it's almost like, um,
Speaker 1: like Mark Carrow, he does those Lyndon Johnson biographies, He's
Speaker 1: got it's the same thing there. So I I just
Speaker 1: bought that. I haven't started reading that yet. But if
Speaker 1: you think the Spitz book is long, you know this
Speaker 1: this book is longer than that. And it's just you
Speaker 1: know there, you know, childhood and Hamburg gears and stuff.
Speaker 1: It's not even there sort of prime yet. But I'm
Speaker 1: excited to get into that. I mean the Beatles story,
Speaker 1: you know. I I've seen so many documentaries about them.
Speaker 1: I've read so many books. I never get sick of
Speaker 1: that story. And it has all the elements that we
Speaker 1: were just talking about, where you have these friends from childhood,
Speaker 1: they come up, they become famous, and then you know,
Speaker 1: all these different power dynamics come into play where people
Speaker 1: are fighting for power in the band and fighting for recognition.
Speaker 1: You have John versus Paul, you know, they're sort of
Speaker 1: competition going on. And then you have George Harrison, this
Speaker 1: great songwriter who was treated like the little brother in
Speaker 1: the band. They never and we we did an episode
Speaker 1: on that. They never Lennon McCartney never reached out to
Speaker 1: George Harrison to say, hey, why don't why don't we
Speaker 1: write songs together? It was it was like, no, you're
Speaker 1: like the little brother. You know, you're not gonna be
Speaker 1: as good as good as us ever. And you can
Speaker 1: just see, like when Harrison finally got out of the band,
Speaker 1: he puts out all Things Must Pass. It's like enormous record,
Speaker 1: triple album, and you just felt like, no one's gonna
Speaker 1: tell me, no, I'm gonna put everything on this record.
Speaker 1: It was a bit of a middle finger to the
Speaker 1: other guys. It was like, all right, I'm gonna outdo
Speaker 1: both of you. Um, you know, I mean I've listened
Speaker 1: to almost every episode up until like a month ago
Speaker 1: when uh, I got distracted. But the Tweenie j far
Speaker 1: Our episode is one of my favorites. The band is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite all time groups. So the Robbie
Speaker 1: Robertson levin Helm story was just, uh that that's a
Speaker 1: tough one personally because of the finances of of Levan
Speaker 1: later on in his life, and really kind of all
Speaker 1: the guys, you know, we're you know, the band is
Speaker 1: one of the sadder stories and music I think of them.
Speaker 1: You know, without Robbie playing, he's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: washed up dive bars almost, which is just crazy to
Speaker 1: think about. Um, I'm glad he had a Levin had
Speaker 1: a nice career resurgence at the end with those couple
Speaker 1: of great albums. But um, I recently watched the documentary,
Speaker 1: Uh what was it called Brothers? Uh, Once We're Brothers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Once We're Brothers, which you know it's Robbie Robertson show,
Speaker 1: so I kind of knew what to expect. I loved
Speaker 1: all the archival footage. Um, but you know I was
Speaker 1: I think I had the understanding that they had a
Speaker 1: real deathbed reconciliation and not. He went in there to
Speaker 1: an unconscious Levon Helman kind of held his hand, so
Speaker 1: that really kind of bursted my bubble a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the thing with that conflict between
Speaker 1: Levin and Robbie, I think for the longest time, like
Speaker 1: I've decided with Levin. I mean, I love Levan so much.
Speaker 1: I love him in the band, have to great drummer,
Speaker 1: incredible singer. Um, and you know, Robbie Robertson's just like
Speaker 1: a less sympathetic character in a lot of ways, although
Speaker 1: I think lately I've come to have more equal empathy,
Speaker 1: just because I feel like, you know, from from Robertson's perspective,
Speaker 1: you know, he was the band with these like three
Speaker 1: genius singers and musicians, you know, Helm Danko and Richard Manuel,
Speaker 1: but they were all also like drug addicts and irresponsible.
Speaker 1: I'm sure, like, especially after they became popular, you know,
Speaker 1: it was hard to wrangle those guys get him into
Speaker 1: the studio. Robertson was the responsible one, you know. I
Speaker 1: think he was like writing the songs, he was putting
Speaker 1: things together. I can see from his perspective how that
Speaker 1: would have just been maddening to deal with. And maybe
Speaker 1: at some point you're just like, I gotta get out
Speaker 1: of here. I could. I'll go to Hollywood and make
Speaker 1: movies with Martin Scorsese and that'll be great. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that movie once we're brothers, it really does leave like
Speaker 1: a salur taste in your mouth, because you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: Robbie Robertson, you ever right to get your viewpoint out there,
Speaker 1: but yeah, a long time to do that, and he
Speaker 1: didn't do it until the other guys were dead right
Speaker 1: and they can't respond, And it just seemed a little cheap,
Speaker 1: um and it actually I think made up look worse
Speaker 1: to do that. I think a lot of people, a
Speaker 1: lot of band fans did not really respond positively to
Speaker 1: that movie. It seemed like a pretty kind of transparent,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of uh, you know, apology. It's a
Speaker 1: way to like prop Robbie up basically and make the
Speaker 1: other guys look as good. And um, I think if
Speaker 1: you would have been a little more honest and uh
Speaker 1: to leave on he he would have came out looking
Speaker 1: better and also made his case. But you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, that's such a complicated thing. I know. And
Speaker 1: always he always strikes me as a guy that kind
Speaker 1: of likes to hear himself talk. Um is evidence from
Speaker 1: you know, the last Waltz in this documentary and his
Speaker 1: sort of you know, shoe polished black hair at his
Speaker 1: age and the Hollywood thing. I don't him, man, it's
Speaker 1: it's but he's one of my favorite guitar players of
Speaker 1: all times. Well, and that's the thing, like I I
Speaker 1: had the chance, Look, I've I've taken shots at Robbie
Speaker 1: Robertson like in print like many times. But I I
Speaker 1: interviewed him, um, like two or three years ago, and
Speaker 1: um he was a great interview and you know, whatever
Speaker 1: you want to say about him. He played on the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six Dylan tour blazing lead guitar, like some
Speaker 1: of the greatest lead guitar ever. He was there with
Speaker 1: the Basement tapes. I mean, this guy has been a
Speaker 1: part of like some of the greatest music ever made.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he's arrogant and uh, kind of a glory hog,
Speaker 1: I think, but his resume is pretty great, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like, what are you what are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: What's like? What's it like when you're interviewing I mean,
Speaker 1: you're a music journalist first and foremost, and that's where
Speaker 1: you're career has has led you to podcasting secondary in
Speaker 1: a secondary way. But when you're interviewing some of these
Speaker 1: people that are your idols or just just these huge superstars,
Speaker 1: what uh what's that like? How do you how do
Speaker 1: you keep it chill? Well? I mean, you know, interviewing
Speaker 1: like a famous person. To me, like, isn't that big
Speaker 1: of a deal? You know, like it is what it
Speaker 1: is it's part of because like they're just people a
Speaker 1: lot of times too, it's like they're not famous for
Speaker 1: anything extraordinary necessarily. It's just like they're just famous. But
Speaker 1: if it is someone like Robbie Robertson or like I
Speaker 1: interviewed Robert Plant once, or like or like a Paul Simon,
Speaker 1: that that is like I'll be of like nerves in
Speaker 1: the pit of my stomach starting the day before. These
Speaker 1: are the rare, rare humans in history, yeah exactly where like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're human beings, but there built up so much certainly
Speaker 1: in my mind, be honest, especially someone like Robert Plant,
Speaker 1: like where you know, I started listening to led Zeppelin
Speaker 1: when I was like eleven or twelve years old and
Speaker 1: reading Hammer of the Gods, you know, by Stephen Davis,
Speaker 1: and you know, and I I've said this before, but
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm not a comic book guy, but
Speaker 1: like rock stars of the sixties and seventies, like they're
Speaker 1: my Marvel heroes, Like that's my Robert Plant is my Batman,
Speaker 1: you know, Robbie Robertson is like my you know, whoever
Speaker 1: Green Lantern or whatever. I can't even think a comic
Speaker 1: book characters I think Robert Plant would be more of
Speaker 1: a thor if you know, I was going to get
Speaker 1: into the Norse mythology right right, But you know, just
Speaker 1: people that are so built up in my mind that
Speaker 1: it's just it's just incredible to talk to them. And
Speaker 1: then you talk to them, and like Robert Plant was
Speaker 1: really nice and like thoughtful, and he's just a music
Speaker 1: fan at heart. So when I was interviewing him, that
Speaker 1: was something that I felt like I could I could
Speaker 1: connect with him, you know, like we were talking about
Speaker 1: um Sandy Denny singing on the Battle of Evermore Unlet's
Speaker 1: up on four. So then we started talking about like
Speaker 1: Fairport Convention and like English folk of like the late
Speaker 1: sixties and early seventies, because I like that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff and and obviously he's a huge fan of that,
Speaker 1: so you know, we could connect just as music fans
Speaker 1: is what you're looking for, I think. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, like when you interview someone like
Speaker 1: that who's been interviewed so many times, you know, you
Speaker 1: don't want to ask just the standard questions that they've
Speaker 1: been ask a million times because you know, well, for
Speaker 1: one thing, everyone's heard that before, so it's not interesting
Speaker 1: but also like the the person you're talking to, they're
Speaker 1: not going to give you good answers that they're just
Speaker 1: gonna feel like, well, I can go on autopilot because
Speaker 1: this is just like another dumb journalist, you know, out
Speaker 1: of millions that I've talked to you in my life.
Speaker 1: But I think if you can show that you know
Speaker 1: you care about this stuff as much as they do,
Speaker 1: I think it's a signal to them that oh, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can loosen up because this person's on the right
Speaker 1: level and we can actually have a real conversation. And
Speaker 1: at think that's when doors get opened and you actually
Speaker 1: end up maybe discovering something new, uh you know that
Speaker 1: hasn't been rehashed you know a million times. I love
Speaker 1: the story when you have felt so bad for you man,
Speaker 1: when you were recounting your Liam Gallagher interview and and
Speaker 1: you know you don't want to be the millionth guy
Speaker 1: to ask him about an Oasis reunion. But it's almost
Speaker 1: like you kind of have to where you're being negligent,
Speaker 1: and it seems sounds like you didn't press it, but
Speaker 1: it was all just b D, I mate, b D
Speaker 1: I mate, Well, yeah, this was we wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about Yeah, this was right after Oasis broke up and
Speaker 1: he yeah, he started this new band called b d I,
Speaker 1: and um, it was an interesting time in his career
Speaker 1: because I think he's changed quite a bit since then.
Speaker 1: He used to be much more sort of, um like
Speaker 1: churlish with the media, and um, now like you see
Speaker 1: interviews with him, and he's like super charming and and
Speaker 1: money and and much more loquacious. And I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if that was just something you know, he
Speaker 1: just got older and gotten a better part of it,
Speaker 1: or maybe there might have been like substance abuse issues too.
Speaker 1: I wonder if if maybe he was just more intoxicated
Speaker 1: when I talked to him, because he because like you
Speaker 1: see him now and like, you know, his eyes looked
Speaker 1: clearer and he looks more alert. So I I do
Speaker 1: think that's maybe part of it. But yeah, when I
Speaker 1: talked to him, you know, and I said this, I
Speaker 1: think I said on the on the show, I asked
Speaker 1: twenty four questions in fifteen minutes because it was all
Speaker 1: just like one sentence answers. But I'm such an Oasis
Speaker 1: fan that I actually was. I was digging that, Like
Speaker 1: it was kind of uncomfortable but like it's kind of
Speaker 1: a classic Gallagher move. Yeah, I was kind of I
Speaker 1: was kind of loving it just because it's like, I
Speaker 1: love Liam Gallagher. I love his attitude, and so to
Speaker 1: be on the their end of it, it was kind
Speaker 1: of a dream come true. Uh, to be abused by
Speaker 1: Liam Gallagher a little bit. I'm also a big fan
Speaker 1: of them, the Van Halen episodes and um My, uh,
Speaker 1: I am now kind of email friends with Aaron Hagar. Uh,
Speaker 1: Sammy's son, because he's a fan of movie crushing stuff
Speaker 1: you should know, and got in touch with us a
Speaker 1: while back, and uh now I can just like email
Speaker 1: him about anything. Anytime I have some little question or whatever,
Speaker 1: I can email him and he'll be like, yeah, man, whatever,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you anything. I'm like, I'll go ask my
Speaker 1: dad right now, Sammy says, Hi, he thinks it's so cool,
Speaker 1: and it's just like Sammy, you know. I'm obviously a
Speaker 1: big David Lee Roth Van Halen guy because I was
Speaker 1: that was the original lineup when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: But I loved both. I loved Van Hagar and I
Speaker 1: think Sammy Hagar is one of the more kind of cool,
Speaker 1: endearing guys in rock history. He just he just seems
Speaker 1: like a good guy. And Aaron's like, man, he's he's great.
Speaker 1: He's a great dad and always was. Yeah. I interviewed
Speaker 1: Sammy Um maybe ten years ago when he put out
Speaker 1: his memoir Read, which I think I said this in
Speaker 1: the episode. I think that's like one of the underrated
Speaker 1: rock memoirs. I don't hear that like mentioned when people
Speaker 1: talk about great rock books. But it's like a pretty
Speaker 1: entertaining Yeah, he's like, I mean, he his personality comes
Speaker 1: across in the book pretty clearly, and I mean there's
Speaker 1: like a lot of trash talking about Eddie van Halen,
Speaker 1: so like there's that aspect of the book just talking
Speaker 1: about basically how messed up Eddie van Halen was during
Speaker 1: that period. But like even the stuff like before he
Speaker 1: joins the band, it's pretty fun. And uh, I mean
Speaker 1: he has the whole Aliens thing, like how he talks
Speaker 1: about how he had an alien encounter when he was
Speaker 1: twenty years older. So uh so that's pretty wild. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I interviewed him, Um, you know, we talked for
Speaker 1: a long time. It was like over an hour, and
Speaker 1: it was one of those things like where I think
Speaker 1: we went over our time that we were allotted by
Speaker 1: the publicists. But he was just like, you know, just
Speaker 1: whatever you have, just keep asking me questions. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll go as long as you want. I think that's
Speaker 1: just his attitude. He seems like a pretty you know,
Speaker 1: like man of the people type, you know, so I
Speaker 1: appreciate that about him. Did you grow up in Minneapolis, No,
Speaker 1: I'm from Wisconsin original, Okay, I'm I grew up in
Speaker 1: a town called Appleton, which is not far from Green Bay.
Speaker 1: It's about a half hour south of Green Bay. So
Speaker 1: still a big Packers fan, even though I'm Minnesota now.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've lived here for five years, okay, and
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it here, even though we're
Speaker 1: now entering our winter hell here, although it still wasn't
Speaker 1: too bad here, I have to say, uh, but yeah,
Speaker 1: Januarine February are always for me. But after that it's great.
Speaker 1: And i'd like seasons too. I'm pro season. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta have a good friend there and stuff you
Speaker 1: should know always does really well. They're on tours. It's
Speaker 1: a great um. I think it's a great town for artistic,
Speaker 1: very literate sort of cultured people and very you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a great rock and roll town. Everyone from
Speaker 1: the Replacements to Whosker Doo and Soul Asylum and obviously Prince.
Speaker 1: It's just got a great rock and roll tradition. Uh.
Speaker 1: This indie band, Tapes and Tapes is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite indie bands of all time. And they're I've gotten
Speaker 1: to know those guys actually by touring in. Invite him
Speaker 1: in to the show and stuff, and just a cool,
Speaker 1: cool town. Hold Steady obviously, yeah yeah, although they came
Speaker 1: together in Brooklyn, Okay, but but all there, but Craig
Speaker 1: Fenn lived to it for a long time and all
Speaker 1: of his songs are set here. So they're really like
Speaker 1: the Bruce Springsteen of Minneapolis. Like how you listen to
Speaker 1: Springsteen songs and he's name checking specific towns and bridges
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and Hold Steady songs He'll like
Speaker 1: he talks about like one sixty nine and like that's
Speaker 1: literally like half a mouth from my house, you know.
Speaker 1: So so that's a cool thing about listening to hold
Speaker 1: Steady songs if you happen to be you know from this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when did you start writing about music and think that
Speaker 1: that was a career path for you? Well, I started
Speaker 1: when I was fourteen. Really, I mean I wrote for
Speaker 1: my junior high paper. The first record reviews I ever
Speaker 1: wrote were of Automatic for the People by rig and
Speaker 1: my Favorites and Dirt by Alison Chains. Those were the
Speaker 1: first favorites. I gave Automatic for the People and A
Speaker 1: and I gave Dirt a B plus. And I should
Speaker 1: have given that an A too. That's an I think,
Speaker 1: my fourteen year old self, I have to write him
Speaker 1: an angry letter about that. Um. And then yeah, I
Speaker 1: started writing UM for my like daily local newspaper. They
Speaker 1: had a teen page uh then that I started writing
Speaker 1: four when I was fifteen and so I so I
Speaker 1: was getting paid for that. I was getting like ten bucks,
Speaker 1: I think a column. So I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: always I just had a programmed in me, I think
Speaker 1: to be a music critic. You know. I just started
Speaker 1: doing it like pretty early, and I've been really writing
Speaker 1: ever since. You know, I did it throughout high school.
Speaker 1: I wrote for my college paper. Um, you know, I worked.
Speaker 1: I actually got hired by the same paper that I
Speaker 1: wrote for as a teenager. That was my first job
Speaker 1: out of college. So I worked for a daily newspaper.
Speaker 1: Work for all weeklies. You know, I kind of did
Speaker 1: a little bit of everything, and that's what's been cool
Speaker 1: about doing podcasts because you know, I love doing podcasts.
Speaker 1: It's it's a lot of fun, and it's to me,
Speaker 1: it's just like the next iteration of different media that
Speaker 1: I've worked in, you know, because like daily newspapers, they
Speaker 1: still exist, but they're obviously on the decline. All weeklies
Speaker 1: are almost gone at this point. You know, I'm working
Speaker 1: in digital media, but that's always pretty boatle, so you know,
Speaker 1: you just have to be able to roll with the punches.
Speaker 1: I guess I'll be doing TikTok reviews here pretty soon.
Speaker 1: You know. It seems like I just saw a story
Speaker 1: and Rolling Stone about how the future of music journalism
Speaker 1: is TikTok. So good lord, So we'll see about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've I've always liked it. You know. It
Speaker 1: just came from a very simple impulse of I love
Speaker 1: writing and I love music, so how can I combine this?
Speaker 1: And I was able to pull it off. So it's amazing.
Speaker 1: I feel really fortunate for that. What book do you
Speaker 1: want to write next? Can you talk about that or
Speaker 1: what ideas are brewing? Well? I I just well, I
Speaker 1: I have an agreement to write a book. I haven't
Speaker 1: officially signed the contract yet. Um so I'm starting work
Speaker 1: on something right now that I won't say yet. But
Speaker 1: if you like, if you like my other books, I
Speaker 1: think you'll like this one. It's it's in a similar vein.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going off and doing a book
Speaker 1: about right side Fred or something. You know, it's definitely
Speaker 1: and although that would be cool, I would definitely do
Speaker 1: a Bright Said Fred book if I could sell that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know about that. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: so i'll be I'm just about to start really writing
Speaker 1: that and so that will be out in um so, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's when we're going now. And and there's always
Speaker 1: like different projects I have kind of percolating that I
Speaker 1: want to do. It's just about whether you can actually
Speaker 1: pull them off get someone to buy it. But I've
Speaker 1: been pretty lucky with that too, so hopefully they will continue.
Speaker 1: Uh So, a couple of questions about the your your youth, Um,
Speaker 1: what was your first and this is not a hey,
Speaker 1: I gotta give this guy a cool answer? What was
Speaker 1: your first real music love? And I'll just go ahead
Speaker 1: on a level set and say legit mine was Barry Manilow.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well he's got some good tunes. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I was born in the nineteen seventy seven,
Speaker 1: so like it was natural for me, like around five
Speaker 1: or six to really love Thriller. Like I loved Thriller
Speaker 1: because everyone loved Thriller. So I'll say that, although I
Speaker 1: feel like that almost doesn't count because it was like
Speaker 1: so ubiquitous at that time. So I remember, like the
Speaker 1: first rock band I loved was Huey Lewis in the
Speaker 1: news Sports I had Sports good album. I had that,
Speaker 1: and then four I had that on cassette. Well and actually,
Speaker 1: um got to spend time with Huey Lewis too, I did.
Speaker 1: I wrote a profile of him, and which was pretty
Speaker 1: wild too, you know, because he was a huge deal
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, because you know, it's it's wild to
Speaker 1: think of a band like that being pop stars now
Speaker 1: because it's like a guy, like a guy who looks
Speaker 1: like Huey Lewis, Like just imagine him being a pop star.
Speaker 1: It's so strange. But like you know, like when I
Speaker 1: was a little kid, you know, in the mid eighties,
Speaker 1: they had Sports uh you know, they had the Back
Speaker 1: to the Future song and that was bigger than that.
Speaker 1: And they had four you know, which had hip to
Speaker 1: be square on it, and a bunch of other hits.
Speaker 1: So like from like eight three, eight, six, eighty seven.
Speaker 1: I mean they were like as big as any band really. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Huey lewis in the news. They taught me
Speaker 1: about the harder rock and roll and I'm grateful for
Speaker 1: such great songs. Yeah, I have to say that, like
Speaker 1: you know, I mean a joke about that, but like
Speaker 1: I think I did learn from the harder rock and
Speaker 1: roll that like Cleveland is an important city in history
Speaker 1: of rock music because of Alec Freed and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And like you know, they says the harder rock and
Speaker 1: rolls in Cleveland is the lyric from that song. So
Speaker 1: Huey lewis bit of a music historian there and definitely
Speaker 1: totally taught me something that my wise family is from Akron.
Speaker 1: They all live here now in Atlanta, but um and
Speaker 1: followed her here. But today I went to Cleveland and
Speaker 1: Akron a bunch over the years and went to the
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which is you know,
Speaker 1: I want to go back. It's just an amazing place
Speaker 1: to visit. And um, she went to My wife went
Speaker 1: to Firestone High, home of Chrissy Hynd and the Black
Speaker 1: Keys and Devo and I think there was one more.
Speaker 1: All went to Firestone High, which is a pretty incredible
Speaker 1: you know, from a single high school, pretty incredible lineage. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: in Ohio in general, tons of great bands. Maybe my
Speaker 1: favorite band of all time, Guided by Voices from Dayton, Ohio,
Speaker 1: like a huge Guided by Voices fan. And then you
Speaker 1: have the National I mean they started like those guys
Speaker 1: are from Cincinnati was another band that kind of like
Speaker 1: I think they came together in Brooklyn. But James Gang,
Speaker 1: James Gang. Absolutely, Yeah, Ohio great. And you know, I
Speaker 1: always I love the way the flag for Midwestern rock bands,
Speaker 1: you know, like I waved the flag for the Midwest
Speaker 1: in general. But yeah, I always love to see Midwest
Speaker 1: stepping up doing something. I mean, I'm from Wisconsin. There's
Speaker 1: not like a ton of great bands really, uh from Wisconsin. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we have like the Violent Fems and the Bowden's of course,
Speaker 1: Bunny Bear is the big one now, which is and
Speaker 1: I went to school in Eau Claire, which is where yeah,
Speaker 1: Justin is from. So he actually wrote a song is
Speaker 1: a song on the second Bunny Bear record called Towers,
Speaker 1: which is about one of the dorms on u W
Speaker 1: Clare campus called there's Towers North and Towers South. And
Speaker 1: I lived in Towers North my freshman year, so so
Speaker 1: there's a song about your college dorm. I know. See,
Speaker 1: It's like, look, when you live in the Midwest, you
Speaker 1: have to like grasp onto these things. It's not like
Speaker 1: when you live in New York and there's like a
Speaker 1: million New York songs, you know, like every lou Read
Speaker 1: song you can just write to and be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's about my town. R M never wrote a song
Speaker 1: about Red Hall, So I'm a little disappointed. Um, Athens,
Speaker 1: I love. Athens is a great town, you know. I
Speaker 1: was just there last weekend for the first time in
Speaker 1: a while, and uh my daughter was at my mom's
Speaker 1: house spending a night and my wife had an event
Speaker 1: all day, and I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: haven't been to Athens and forever. I have a day
Speaker 1: to myself and I went and just uh soaked it
Speaker 1: all in again. You know. It was something, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like the best six years of my life,
Speaker 1: of my youth, let's say, and the R. E. M.
Speaker 1: Steeple is still there from the church where they played
Speaker 1: their first gig. I've seen that. Yeah, it's still right there.
Speaker 1: It's cool. You can also and they also have like
Speaker 1: those tower things that are on the back cover of Murmur. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the train trestle, the train trestle. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can go see the R. D. S is still there.
Speaker 1: Automatic for the people was his local soul food restaurant,
Speaker 1: and all that stuff is within like, you know, a
Speaker 1: half a mile of a couple of places that I
Speaker 1: lived and Stipe still loans. Uh. I think he owns
Speaker 1: three houses now, which is I think the rich guy move,
Speaker 1: which is you buy your house and then eventually you
Speaker 1: buy the neighboring house, and then eventually you buy the
Speaker 1: other side neighboring house, just to sort of sock yourself
Speaker 1: in a little bit. But um, I know he lives
Speaker 1: in New York, but you know he's still there and
Speaker 1: you could go on any given night and bump into
Speaker 1: two Stipe still uh, even though he spends most of
Speaker 1: his time in New York. And I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the charming things about that band is that they
Speaker 1: still have you know, Bill Berry still lives just outside
Speaker 1: Athens on his farm. Berry is the one member of
Speaker 1: R E M. I haven't interviewed. I'd love to interview
Speaker 1: Bill Berry. I remember when I interviewed Michael Stipe. That
Speaker 1: was another one where I had not in my stomach
Speaker 1: the night before. But because us, you know, still am
Speaker 1: such a huge R e M. Fan, And I had
Speaker 1: also heard that he was like a bit standoffish in interviews,
Speaker 1: could be difficult, and he couldn't have been warmer and
Speaker 1: nicer and like and more open like we were talking
Speaker 1: about all these different I mean, it was just about R. E.
Speaker 1: M Our interview and he uh, you know, it was
Speaker 1: very frank about like what he thought the band did
Speaker 1: well and what you know he thought they didn't do well,
Speaker 1: and very matter of fact and you know, had a
Speaker 1: great sense of humor and um, yeah, all those guys.
Speaker 1: They are one of the only bands that, like, when
Speaker 1: they walked away, you felt like, Okay, they're done, because
Speaker 1: they just seemed like guys said, we feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we did what we wanted to do and now we
Speaker 1: want to be normal. We want to have normal lives,
Speaker 1: and they don't seem to have, you know, the ego
Speaker 1: that like other bands of that level would have like
Speaker 1: we're eventually you want to be in front of fifty
Speaker 1: people again. And you know, I've seen Peter Buck play
Speaker 1: with so many different bands and he just loves it.
Speaker 1: And he'll play with Alejandro Escoveto. He'll like, he'll put
Speaker 1: out a record on like well that I think that
Speaker 1: label Mississippi Records, like out in Oregon, where it's like
Speaker 1: you can only buy it on vinyl and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand copies pressed or whatever, and he's,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's just the guy who just he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, got tens of millions of dollars, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: and he's just like I don't need to be a
Speaker 1: superstar anymore. I can just do whatever I want to do,
Speaker 1: and I just want to play music. And I can't
Speaker 1: think of like another band that was like that huge
Speaker 1: where the members just did that walked away, And I
Speaker 1: really think I don't think they'll ever get back together.
Speaker 1: I think you're in a real way, I think they
Speaker 1: could do. I could see them getting back together and
Speaker 1: playing a show at the forty on and that's the
Speaker 1: only time they get back together. But in terms of
Speaker 1: doing like a real tour or like an album or something.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that won't happen. Yeah, The forty White Man,
Speaker 1: many many nights there that Uh. One of my I
Speaker 1: guess my favorite um sort of college rock band of
Speaker 1: all time is Pavement. And I saw Pavement and on
Speaker 1: that first tour for Slanted, uh without even knowing who
Speaker 1: they were. It was just there's a great uh all
Speaker 1: weekly They're called The Flagpole Magazine, and I, uh, I thought,
Speaker 1: you're about to whip out the flagpole. You just reach
Speaker 1: for something, um the Flagpole. You know, it was in
Speaker 1: Athens in the early nineties, and you would you would
Speaker 1: just read up like who's playing the fort for four
Speaker 1: dollars on a Wednesday? And like let's just take a
Speaker 1: flyer and go. And Pavement had an interesting write up
Speaker 1: and I was like, let's go check these guys out.
Speaker 1: And from that night on, I was like, these are
Speaker 1: my guys, and they have remained my guys ever since then.
Speaker 1: It was sort of a ship show of a concert. Uh.
Speaker 1: The you know, Gary the drummer at the time, just
Speaker 1: destroyed his drum set and Steve Malcolmus ended up passed
Speaker 1: out on the stage with like cigarettes falling out of
Speaker 1: his breast pocket and he came back and apologized, and
Speaker 1: I was like, man, these guys are the ship there,
Speaker 1: my dudes, that's awesome. I got to see um drive
Speaker 1: by truckers there. That's the only like because I was
Speaker 1: in town to do a story on them, and they
Speaker 1: do this thing. Um, I mean they didn't do it
Speaker 1: this year obviously, but like they they do this thing
Speaker 1: in the winter where they play like a three show
Speaker 1: stand at the forty. So I was at one of
Speaker 1: those shows and that was definitely like pretty cool to
Speaker 1: be at the forty watch just having like grown up
Speaker 1: a huge r M fan and knowing about forty what
Speaker 1: it's just from just from reading about them. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I love Athens too. It reminds me of Madison, Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: which which is you know, like another sort of like
Speaker 1: liberal college town in the middle of like just conservative country.
Speaker 1: It's like a little oasis, you know. Um yeah, like
Speaker 1: Austin too, Yeah exactly. I mean Austin is a bigger city,
Speaker 1: but um yeah, for sure. So it felt very comfortable
Speaker 1: when I was there. I felt like, oh, I haven't
Speaker 1: been here before, but I feel like I have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's cool stuff. You should know. Did Um, sort of
Speaker 1: an off the beaten path live show in Lawrence, Kansas
Speaker 1: one time, and I got those Athens vibes a big time.
Speaker 1: When I was in Lawrence, I was like, Man, this
Speaker 1: this is this town is the ship. I love what
Speaker 1: it's about. Yeah, I haven't been there, but I've heard
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Uh. And then another sort of childhood music
Speaker 1: question before we move on to what we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about, which is music movies. What was your first concert?
Speaker 1: Like what you know you consider your first real concert?
Speaker 1: I like, my parents dragged me to Kenney Rogers and
Speaker 1: Bobby Goldsboro when I was a kid, but like my
Speaker 1: first show that I wanted to go to and paid
Speaker 1: for it was Cheap trick In. Oh wow, that's another
Speaker 1: great Midwestern band. Yeah, one of them. I've seen them
Speaker 1: probably nine or ten times, including a Weird forty And
Speaker 1: I'm not weird. It was great. It was kind of
Speaker 1: weird that they played there. Uh, this epic forty watch
Speaker 1: show like fifteen years ago. But um, what was your
Speaker 1: first real concert? Um? Well, like in terms of like
Speaker 1: a show that I was taken to, um, like by
Speaker 1: my by my dad. It was when I was nine.
Speaker 1: I saw the Beach Boys at the Marcus sampath Theater
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee was the first show at the Marcus Sampatheater,
Speaker 1: which is where, uh where Summer Fest takes place in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee for those who know what Summer Fest is. Um.
Speaker 1: And that would have been like six and I the
Speaker 1: Kokomo years. It was right before Kokomo, so so you know,
Speaker 1: it was just like the greatest hitset And I was
Speaker 1: so young, you know, I didn't really even know who
Speaker 1: the Beach Boys were, although like when they started playing,
Speaker 1: I knew a lot of their songs already from Oldie's Radio.
Speaker 1: And I had a great time. I loved it. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to I wish I knew if Brian Wilson was there,
Speaker 1: because it's possible that he might have been at that show,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if he was or not. But
Speaker 1: certainly Carl Wilson was still with them. Dennis Wilson had died,
Speaker 1: you know, three years before that. Uh So it was
Speaker 1: pretty cool, Like and I love the Beach Boys, so
Speaker 1: it was pretty great. Another great Rivals episode, by the way,
Speaker 1: my loved one. Yeah, totallyhole um, Like in terms of like,
Speaker 1: you know, a show that I paid for myself. Like
Speaker 1: one of the first big ones was I saw the
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones on the Voodoo Lounge tour at Camp Randall
Speaker 1: Stadium in Madison, and I was, I think literally in
Speaker 1: the last row. And you know, I was already as
Speaker 1: I was already a big classic rock fan when I
Speaker 1: was sixteen, and I remember feeling like a little snarky
Speaker 1: about out, like, oh, is this gonna be any good?
Speaker 1: You know, because at that time, the Stones seemed super old,
Speaker 1: you know, and I thought they're gonna they're gonna retire. Well,
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger was fifty on that and you know at
Speaker 1: that time, there weren't a lot of fifty year old
Speaker 1: rock stars in ninety four. You know. Now you know
Speaker 1: we're used to I mean, Bob Dylan's going to be
Speaker 1: eighty uh next year, so that's been normalized. But I
Speaker 1: remember thinking like, I got to see the Stones on
Speaker 1: this tour because they're gonna probably retire after this, you know.
Speaker 1: And that was like twenty six years ago. But they
Speaker 1: came out and I forget what they played first, but
Speaker 1: it was awesome. It was unbelievable, and I and even
Speaker 1: in the stadium, like the magnetism of McK and Keith
Speaker 1: especially was just it was intoxicating, like I was just
Speaker 1: I was in heaven during that show. I remember they
Speaker 1: played all down the Line from Exile on Main Street
Speaker 1: and I loved the Exile and I wasn't expecting them
Speaker 1: to play that um, so I was pretty excited. And
Speaker 1: they and Keith sang three songs I think, including Memory
Speaker 1: Hotel from Black and Blue, which is you know, not
Speaker 1: a hit, pretty big, deep cut. Any Keith sung songs
Speaker 1: I was going nuts for because I loved Keith Richards
Speaker 1: was one of the first like rock stars I really
Speaker 1: came to love and I still love Keith Um, but
Speaker 1: at that time especially I just worshiped Keith Richards, So
Speaker 1: that was that was pretty great. So yeah, so this
Speaker 1: so probably The Stones would be like one of the
Speaker 1: first like kind of like shows I paid to go see.
Speaker 1: And that was a big deal too, because I had
Speaker 1: to get permission to like drive it down that was
Speaker 1: that was like a two hour drive and uh so
Speaker 1: yeah that was great. That was so much fun. They're
Speaker 1: remarkably a band I haven't seen I have. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been going to concerts, like I said, since I
Speaker 1: was twelve years old, and like big, big, shows. You know,
Speaker 1: when I was little, I was going to the to
Speaker 1: the Omni in Atlanta, you know, our our local you
Speaker 1: know basketball arena. And obviously once college kicked in, I
Speaker 1: was going to like smaller shows along with big shows. Still,
Speaker 1: but I have some big holes, like I've never seen
Speaker 1: the Stones. I never got to see The Who And
Speaker 1: I had a chance to see The Who in the
Speaker 1: eighties when it was still you know, pretty vital and
Speaker 1: John and Whistle was still with them. I never I've
Speaker 1: never seen I never got to see Pink Floyd, I
Speaker 1: never saw that. I didn't go to that Plant Page tour. Um,
Speaker 1: I never saw Bowie like some of my idols. I'm
Speaker 1: just kicking myself for not going to these shows, you know.
Speaker 1: And I guess part of it was finances back then,
Speaker 1: like not being able to afford to go to all
Speaker 1: the shows. Um, I've got a great concert list, but
Speaker 1: those like those are some pretty big holes to have
Speaker 1: not seen the Stones and with so many opportunities, and
Speaker 1: I really regret that. Well, and hopefully you'll still have
Speaker 1: a chance. I mean, I mean, I was gonna see
Speaker 1: them this year again, like they were gonna you know,
Speaker 1: they were going on to her and I there was
Speaker 1: a month in May where I was going to see
Speaker 1: the Stones, Guns n Roses and Ween and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great. And then and I had
Speaker 1: that planned in like February or whatever, and then you know, uh,
Speaker 1: we all know what happened next. I mean, but like
Speaker 1: someone like Bowie for instance, Like I've never seen Bowie either,
Speaker 1: and it's just like you know that's gone forever, you know,
Speaker 1: like you we're never gonna get a chance to see that,
Speaker 1: which is a real bummer. Or um. I never saw
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd either. I've seen Roger Waters, which was pretty great,
Speaker 1: Like his band is so good and he actually he
Speaker 1: has this guitar player when I saw him named Jonathan Wilson,
Speaker 1: who's a great singer songwriter in his own right and
Speaker 1: great producer, like he's produced all the Father John Misty
Speaker 1: records and like Dogs and some other bands like that.
Speaker 1: But he was the guitar player in Roger Waters band
Speaker 1: and he would sing the David Gilmour parts two and
Speaker 1: it was so perfect and like the guitar solos that
Speaker 1: he was playing, we're like note for note from the record,
Speaker 1: which I'm a little mixed on. But Also, those solos
Speaker 1: are amazing, so I was to hear him. I was
Speaker 1: kind of excited to sit there, you know, I was.
Speaker 1: I was in an arena with an amazing light show,
Speaker 1: listening to like the guitar solo from Comfortably Numb, you know,
Speaker 1: pend David Gilmore. Yeah, it was like it was pretty cool,
Speaker 1: Like I was. It's like you can be cynical about
Speaker 1: these things and be like, oh, it's not the real
Speaker 1: band or you know, blah blah blah. When you're in
Speaker 1: that seat, that plastic seat and the light shows going
Speaker 1: and that music is playing. I'm sorry, but like my
Speaker 1: I'm I can be a cynical rock critic, but my
Speaker 1: cynicism evaporates. It's like I don't I'm not that powerful
Speaker 1: of a cynic It's like this, this stuff is working
Speaker 1: for me, like Gangbusters, you know, like there's a reason
Speaker 1: why this is so popular, Like it works. You know. Well,
Speaker 1: I had tickets for the Roger Waters tour this summer.
Speaker 1: Really good seats happened. I had tickets for Guns and
Speaker 1: Roses didn't happen. Um. I have been on a on
Speaker 1: a mission now to like to just not miss these
Speaker 1: big shows, especially if it's an older artist like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't saw that Elton John tour three times, uh and
Speaker 1: the Fleetwood Mac both the with Lindsay and then with
Speaker 1: with Campbell and Neil Finn and that was great. Um,
Speaker 1: so I try not to miss anything now that I
Speaker 1: can actually afford to go to concerts and get like
Speaker 1: decent seats. Finally in my life, I saw Petty you know,
Speaker 1: from like the fifth row on that last tour, and uh,
Speaker 1: I think the two previous tours as well. So I'm
Speaker 1: not and certainly after the pandemic is over, like no
Speaker 1: one should be snoozing on live tours well again, and
Speaker 1: that's why, you know, part of me is like, are
Speaker 1: people are going to be afraid to go to shows
Speaker 1: because there's such a you know, I know like when
Speaker 1: I went to shows, I never thought about germs, you know,
Speaker 1: I never thought about like someone copying Ted Rose ahead
Speaker 1: of me and Nickiel, like, oh I'm in danger now.
Speaker 1: But then there's the thing you're talking about where people
Speaker 1: are so primed you know, take a minute. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I managed to see a couple of things
Speaker 1: in early a couple of live shows, but this is
Speaker 1: easily the least amount of music I've seen since I
Speaker 1: was what like sixteen fifteen, sixteen years old. It's been
Speaker 1: crazy and that's true for everyone obviously. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's such a it's really weird. I mean, there's so
Speaker 1: many things that we've lost that I try not to
Speaker 1: dwell at it too much because it can really drag
Speaker 1: you down. Um, but yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, hopefully, yeah,
Speaker 1: hopefully we're on the verge of coming back and it
Speaker 1: will be so fun. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, all right, my friend,
Speaker 1: let us uh segue here into music movies. And what
Speaker 1: I did everyone, as I emailed Steven, was just like, listen,
Speaker 1: let's just not him ourselves in make a list of
Speaker 1: your favorite five music movies that can be concert movies,
Speaker 1: can be documentaries, can be biopics, that can be whatever.
Speaker 1: And you were fully allowed to cheat like crazy, because
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my top five list and it has
Speaker 1: probably thirteen movies and then another twelve honorable mentions. So
Speaker 1: let's just start talking about these. Um, I'll go ahead
Speaker 1: and to start it off. And these are not for me.
Speaker 1: They're not ranked I think you ranked yours, but on
Speaker 1: my list of top five, I kind of tried to
Speaker 1: categorize it I did concert movies, and my two favorite
Speaker 1: concert movies are The Last Waltz and Stopped Making Sense
Speaker 1: a little on the nose, but that's the truth. You
Speaker 1: can't go wrong with those, yeah. I for my list,
Speaker 1: I had sort of a subcategory where I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to put these on my list because
Speaker 1: I feel like people know these movies or I feel
Speaker 1: like Charles is probably going to mention them, and those
Speaker 1: were two that I but I But I also wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure I shouted them out because they're great.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying they're not great. I think I'm
Speaker 1: not being like a snob here and being like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Last Waltz isn't great or Stop making Sense as great,
Speaker 1: Like they're they're great. But I also want to recommend
Speaker 1: some movies that maybe people haven't seen that I think
Speaker 1: are really great. But yet those two, if you haven't
Speaker 1: seen them, you have to see them. They're like the
Speaker 1: gold standard I think for concert films. They really are,
Speaker 1: and I think in sort of two different ways. In
Speaker 1: in one similar way, um, the Last Waltz has all
Speaker 1: that other uh, all that other great footage. Stop making
Speaker 1: Sense does not do that. But I think the things
Speaker 1: they have in common, which it was pretty genius from
Speaker 1: Scorsese and and Jonathan Demi was the immediacy of the
Speaker 1: film work. And I think part of that is due
Speaker 1: to the fact that just back then they didn't have
Speaker 1: you know, fifty ft techno cranes, Like the way they
Speaker 1: shoot concerts now is so different. Back then it was
Speaker 1: it was people on stage with the camera largely. You know,
Speaker 1: you had one setup wide for your wide shot. But
Speaker 1: so what's so great about both of those is just
Speaker 1: the immediacy, and especially Stop Making Sense. I mean, you
Speaker 1: don't even see the audience. Really, it's this weird thing
Speaker 1: that feels like it's in this vacuum where you're kind
Speaker 1: of on stage with this avant garde rock band. Um
Speaker 1: The Last Walls feels like a bit more of a party.
Speaker 1: But they both work for those reasons. I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Stop Making Sense is the greatest sort of
Speaker 1: visceral concert movie. Like it it's the concert movie that
Speaker 1: comes closest to actually feeling like a show, where like
Speaker 1: I've been to screenings of Stop Making Sense and people
Speaker 1: will get up and dance like during the show, and
Speaker 1: I've never seen that for other concert films. The Last
Speaker 1: Waltz to me, and I think you make a great
Speaker 1: point about how that was shot. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: if you look at a film like Woodstock or Gimme Shelter,
Speaker 1: like the earliest you know, like those late sixties kind
Speaker 1: of like the early great concert films, it's more like
Speaker 1: handheld stuff. It feels like a little grittier, which I
Speaker 1: love that about those movies. But there's a grandness to
Speaker 1: the Last Waltz. It's like it's like gone with the
Speaker 1: wind of concert movies, Like it just looks so great
Speaker 1: and the compositions of it are are so wonderful, and
Speaker 1: there's just like a sweep to it that I think
Speaker 1: it was really unique to concert movies at that time.
Speaker 1: And the fact too that you just have these like
Speaker 1: towering figures of rock history all assembled at once. You
Speaker 1: have like Muddy Waters on stage, you know, like how
Speaker 1: amazing is that? And then you've got like Ben Morrison
Speaker 1: in the purple suit. You've got Bob Dylan with like
Speaker 1: looking like a rabbi, you know exactly, Neil Young with
Speaker 1: the booger knows which someone pointed this out to me recently.
Speaker 1: If you look at the shirt that Neil Young is
Speaker 1: wearing which I've never noticed this, but like if you
Speaker 1: because you can see a couple of times it's like
Speaker 1: a drawing of two people doing a sixty nine? Is
Speaker 1: it really? Yeah, it's like, what the hell, Neil Young,
Speaker 1: what are you thinking? But it's funny. Another great interviews
Speaker 1: like just uh, you know, Robbie of course is blow
Speaker 1: beating about everything, but you know, the best interviews You're
Speaker 1: going to see a Richard manual for sure, even though
Speaker 1: it was sad and he was just so fucked up
Speaker 1: um and Levan was he had a very obviously cynical
Speaker 1: outlook about the whole project, but is still some pretty
Speaker 1: great interview footage of him. Yeah, Like you read Levan's book,
Speaker 1: This Wheels on Fire, and he just trash He trashes
Speaker 1: the last Waltz, like he hates the movie, and he
Speaker 1: talks about like how miserable he was being interviewed. But
Speaker 1: then like you watched the movie and he's like it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it. He's super charming. He's telling that
Speaker 1: story about like being in Arkansas and like how yeah,
Speaker 1: late at night, you know, girls just start shaking it
Speaker 1: and like the band starts playing a little you know,
Speaker 1: he's tell these great stories and it's so damn charming,
Speaker 1: but like apparently he hated the whole experience. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he just hated being taken off
Speaker 1: the road and feeling that Robbie Robinson sort of decided that,
Speaker 1: you know, unilaterally, and he just associates that with the movie.
Speaker 1: Now maybe I don't know, but well, in the whole
Speaker 1: Hollywood thing, which he was just you know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think at that point there was just Robbie animosity overall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is too bad. You know, I wish um because
Speaker 1: I do think some of his animosity I think is misplaced.
Speaker 1: And you know, I I do think that, Like it's
Speaker 1: I don't know how much we want to get into
Speaker 1: the weeds with that. We have to talk about these
Speaker 1: other movies, but I won't even get into that. Just
Speaker 1: listen to our episode. But but I'll just say, like
Speaker 1: I wish those two guys could have had a real
Speaker 1: reconciliation and that, like you said, where it's like Levan
Speaker 1: was unconscious usin and Robbie just kind of showed up
Speaker 1: at the end. All right, what's your first entry? Um?
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go. So I just want to say, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so I mentioned that I had this list of movies
Speaker 1: that aren't on my list just because I felt like
Speaker 1: they're like the Cannon music movies. But I but I
Speaker 1: love all these movies, but I just wanted to maybe
Speaker 1: pick other movies that maybe people haven't seen, so like,
Speaker 1: like those are to be the honorable mentions. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: so like last Waltz stopped making sense, I'd gimme Shelter
Speaker 1: on their The Rolling Stones movie and Don't Look Back
Speaker 1: the Bob Dylan movie from nineteen seven. Can that not
Speaker 1: be in there? Exactly? These honestly like my honorable mentions,
Speaker 1: like they could be my top five. But again easily,
Speaker 1: I was hoping I could maybe make some recommend I
Speaker 1: feel like people have seen these movies, so like I
Speaker 1: wanted to recommend some things people I haven't seen. Maybe.
Speaker 1: But the other one was A Hard Day's Night by
Speaker 1: the Beatles. The Beatles movie, it's one of the most
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like one of my favorite movies period
Speaker 1: of time, just super charming comedy. Aside from the music.
Speaker 1: Music is obviously wonderful, but the comedy in that movie
Speaker 1: is so great, and so many quotable lines like all
Speaker 1: the other actors, like the guy who plays the grandpa.
Speaker 1: That's great. Uh so many wonderful parts of that movie.
Speaker 1: So those were the movies on my honorable mentions, my
Speaker 1: number five movie, and I have a bunch of parent
Speaker 1: the articles on this too. This is sort of like
Speaker 1: my comedy category. Um. And so obviously you have like
Speaker 1: this is spinal Tap, you have Pop Star Never Stopped Popping.
Speaker 1: You have the Great Movie. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: seen this. All you need is Cash, the Ruttles movie
Speaker 1: that Eric Idle did in the Beatles Parity. Uh. I
Speaker 1: love all those movies. Those are all basically like fake documentaries,
Speaker 1: you know, so so sort of doing a parody of
Speaker 1: like the documentary genre. The movie that actually put on
Speaker 1: my list at number five is a parody of music biopics.
Speaker 1: And I feel like, after this movie was made, I'm
Speaker 1: shocked that music biopics continue to be a thing, because
Speaker 1: this movie nails biopics so perfectly. Like I watched it
Speaker 1: again last night, Like you can't watch this movie and
Speaker 1: then watch Bohemian Rhapsody and take it seriously. I mean,
Speaker 1: BEHEMI reps. He is kind of ridiculous anyway, But Anyway,
Speaker 1: the movie is Walk Hard The Dewey Box Star. Sorry, Um,
Speaker 1: it's so perfect, like just nailing the sort of like
Speaker 1: awkwardness of biopics. The you know, the scene I was
Speaker 1: laughing the hardest. I always have a different scene that
Speaker 1: I laughed hard at. But like the scene early in
Speaker 1: the movie where they show young Dewey Cox in this
Speaker 1: grocery store and he comes across these two blues guys
Speaker 1: and then and then he takes the guitar and he
Speaker 1: starts he learns guitar instantly, and then he starts singing
Speaker 1: in this like blues sky boys. It's so perfect. It's
Speaker 1: so perfect for these things. And like how there's like
Speaker 1: a scene a little bit later where he's like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna walk Hard. I'm going you like how you have
Speaker 1: to like repeat the title of like a song like
Speaker 1: in the dialogue, which is something that happens all the time.
Speaker 1: And Walk the Line that Johnny Cash movie. I mean
Speaker 1: they really nail the Johnny Cash movie pretty bad and
Speaker 1: Walk Hard. But um, and Walk the Line was a
Speaker 1: great movie too. It is the Joaquin Phoenix and performance.
Speaker 1: I think it is great. Wetherspoon I think is great,
Speaker 1: but um, yeah, just the sort of um reductive nature
Speaker 1: of biopics and how uh and just the corny nous
Speaker 1: of them, like walk Hard. It just nails it so perfectly.
Speaker 1: It's a tough genre, you know, Like I love Bohemian Rhapsody,
Speaker 1: but just because I'm such a Queen fan, um, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, like the live aid part is super entertaining.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't not be roused by that. It's
Speaker 1: it's well done. But they're they're a tough genre to
Speaker 1: pull off and make a really great movie, like if
Speaker 1: you're talking about really great movies. I mean, as much
Speaker 1: as I loved it, it was corny and cheesy and
Speaker 1: did not deserve like these Academy awards, I don't think,
Speaker 1: But I think it just it hit me right in
Speaker 1: the fields because I'm such a Queen fan, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't care. I want to. I forgave it of everything
Speaker 1: because I just love it so much. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel the same way. I mean, I
Speaker 1: I can step back and I can point out all
Speaker 1: the flaws with it because it's a pretty ridiculous movie.
Speaker 1: And there's also like some weird things that they do
Speaker 1: with Freddie Mercury Story, especially at the end, and like
Speaker 1: the chronology of like when he got sick and when
Speaker 1: he found out about it like this, Yeah, which is
Speaker 1: kind of weird if you know the real story. But um,
Speaker 1: you're right, Like the it's like you're in a movie
Speaker 1: theater listening to queen music for two hours. So like,
Speaker 1: even if the movie is flawed, like, are you not
Speaker 1: having a good time? I mean, it's still a good
Speaker 1: time at the end of the day. So yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not a great movie, but it was
Speaker 1: a very entertaining movie. I think, Yeah, absolutely. Uh So
Speaker 1: my next movie, I went for this one movie about
Speaker 1: a fictional rock band, almost Famous, which I think is, um,
Speaker 1: it is a flawed movie in some ways, and that
Speaker 1: it's sort of overly saccharin at times, and uh, but
Speaker 1: there's just something about it. Man. When it came out. Uh,
Speaker 1: going to see that movie in the theater was a
Speaker 1: real experience. I think Cameron Crow really nailed more than
Speaker 1: many directors I've seen, what it's what it might be
Speaker 1: like to be in a band. I thought he nailed
Speaker 1: the I thought the live music performance sections of that
Speaker 1: movie were amazing and really realistic. Uh, And it was
Speaker 1: just such a charming movie in every way it was.
Speaker 1: It was like the best of what I used to
Speaker 1: love about Cameron Crow like kind before we started making
Speaker 1: what I think are pretty subpart movies. Um, I love it.
Speaker 1: I love those songs, and I love that story, and
Speaker 1: uh that movie still holds it like a pretty special
Speaker 1: place in my heart. Yeah, I mean I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean as a music critic, that is the rare
Speaker 1: movie where a music critic is the hero of the
Speaker 1: film's kind of your story. I mean I've called that
Speaker 1: like the top Gun of music criticism. Like how like
Speaker 1: people saw top Gun then they're like, I want to join, right,
Speaker 1: I want to fire airplanes, you know, like you see
Speaker 1: almost famous and you're like, I want to be a
Speaker 1: rock critic. This seems like the best. And the Lester
Speaker 1: Bang stuff was so cool. That's the thing. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: Philip Seymour Hoppin's portrayal of Lester Bangs is like that's
Speaker 1: more famous than Lester Banks now, Like like I like
Speaker 1: he's like overtaken that like reality, and I really think that,
Speaker 1: like like that version of Lester Bangs is like the
Speaker 1: most famous rock critic ever. You know, I wish I
Speaker 1: could have seen that movie too. Oh man, that would
Speaker 1: have been like a movie where just it's just Philip
Speaker 1: Seymour Hoffman, you know, hanging out with like Lou Reed
Speaker 1: and biggy pop. That would have been amazing. Um Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love I love Almost Famous too. I agree with
Speaker 1: you about like the live music scenes. I appreciate that,
Speaker 1: like Cameron Crowe made them like a credibly like okay band,
Speaker 1: you know, like because I don't think Still Water is
Speaker 1: supposed to be led Zeppelin or the Allman Brothers. It's
Speaker 1: based on his experiences with those bands, but like they're
Speaker 1: not supposed to be as good as those bands, and
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be like kind of like a mid
Speaker 1: level like Black Oak Arkansas or something, you know, like
Speaker 1: the Theater sized. Yeah, like a like a boogie rock
Speaker 1: band from the seventies. And like he co wrote those
Speaker 1: songs with Nancy Wilson from Heart, who was his wife
Speaker 1: at the time, Like likes like Fever Dog, you know,
Speaker 1: like songs like that a good song. And I think,
Speaker 1: too Almost Famous. What I respond to in it is
Speaker 1: like the love of music, Like there's it expresses what
Speaker 1: it means to love music so much or love a
Speaker 1: band so much in a really kind of pure and
Speaker 1: I think genuine way where yeah, it might be a
Speaker 1: little corny, but like you know, loving a band is
Speaker 1: kind of corny. You know, that's the way it is.
Speaker 1: And like that's kind of the great thing about it,
Speaker 1: where you just kind of give yourself up to something
Speaker 1: and you're not self conscious about it. You just love
Speaker 1: it unequivocally, you know, And I appreciate that fearlessness in
Speaker 1: a way like to not be cool. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: be cool about this because I love it. You know
Speaker 1: that that's the way it should be. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a pure love letter, and you know, if you're a
Speaker 1: music fan, you can't help but love the end of
Speaker 1: that movie when when Billy crewed up comes to that
Speaker 1: house and gives him that interview in the bedroom and
Speaker 1: the way he wrote that, you know, I think the
Speaker 1: line of something like what do you what do you
Speaker 1: love most about music or being in a band and
Speaker 1: setting me he said something like, you know, to start
Speaker 1: with everything and and then and they just trail it
Speaker 1: off from there, and it's just I still sort of
Speaker 1: get chills at that moment. It was just a love
Speaker 1: letter to to rock and roll in every way. Tangerine
Speaker 1: in the background that leads uplands on. The music cues
Speaker 1: are crazy, and the bus going into the sunset at
Speaker 1: the end, it's yeah, it's like yeah, it's like that
Speaker 1: iconography that just speaks to me, like I will be
Speaker 1: a sucker for that. Any to the week. Um So,
Speaker 1: next movie on my list, um is you know if
Speaker 1: you love The Last Waltz, I'd recommend this movie. It's
Speaker 1: a little less well known, but I think it's really great.
Speaker 1: It's called Chuck Berry Hale Hale, Rock and Roll. I've
Speaker 1: never seen that. Great movie came out in seven, directed
Speaker 1: by Taylor Hackford. It's about this uh concert that Chuck
Speaker 1: Berry played in his hometown of St. Louis. I guess
Speaker 1: it would have been six um when he was sixty
Speaker 1: years old, and he assembled this all star and like
Speaker 1: Keith Richards was on guitar. Uh, the bass player from
Speaker 1: nrb Q was on base. I can't remember his name. Um,
Speaker 1: I think Steve Jordan was on drums, and like Eric
Speaker 1: Clapton shows up at one point, Air Clapton. That's the
Speaker 1: link I guess between this and The Last Waltz. Um So,
Speaker 1: it's a concert movie, but before the concert movie part
Speaker 1: of it begins like the first half of it is
Speaker 1: just about Chuck Barry and following him and just what
Speaker 1: his career was like at this moment in his life.
Speaker 1: How he was just flying from town to town playing
Speaker 1: with pickup bands, like he didn't have his own band.
Speaker 1: He just played with local musicians essentially, and like Keith
Speaker 1: Richards talks about how, you know he wants to do
Speaker 1: this concert because every time he's seen Chuck Berry it's
Speaker 1: always been bad. He's like, he's always playing with these
Speaker 1: like local musicians, who what a weird thing to do? Good? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it was, like, you know, it was probably
Speaker 1: cheaper for him to do that because you don't have
Speaker 1: to have you don't have a band on retainer. You know,
Speaker 1: you just show up. These guys are so excited just
Speaker 1: to play with Chuck Barry. He's taking probably like he's
Speaker 1: probably kicking these guys fifty bucks and like a case
Speaker 1: of pay or something. There's a great story Bruce Springsteens
Speaker 1: in the movie, and he tells a story about how
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen early in his career opened up for Chuck
Speaker 1: Berry and like his band ended up being Chuck Berry's
Speaker 1: backing band. So he tells this great story about how
Speaker 1: like they're on stage. You know, Bruce Springsteen is playing
Speaker 1: lead guitar or or rhythm guitar or whatever and Chuck
Speaker 1: Berry's band and like he has no idea what Chuck's
Speaker 1: about to play, and they have to figure out, like
Speaker 1: Chuck just counts in and starts playing, and you know,
Speaker 1: Chuck Berry like the riffs of his songs they kind
Speaker 1: of sound alike, so they have to figure out what
Speaker 1: song they're playing in and what key. And it's just amazing.
Speaker 1: She was always good on the fly like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: total it had been known to do stuff like that
Speaker 1: in his own band, like you know, follow me in
Speaker 1: g right exactly. It's just wild to see, you know,
Speaker 1: just to imagine like a young Bruce Springsteen playing with
Speaker 1: Chuck Barry, it's kind of like a dream type thing
Speaker 1: to imagine. So yeah, great movie, great, Uh you know,
Speaker 1: I mean the mute the concert part of it is great,
Speaker 1: but like all the stuff that leads up to it
Speaker 1: is great. There's a great scene like we're Chuck Barry
Speaker 1: and Keith Partisica do an argument like where they're just
Speaker 1: screaming at each other over like how to properly play
Speaker 1: some song so a wonderful movie. Um and yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like it was critically claimed at the time, and
Speaker 1: it's been overlooked a little bit over the years. I
Speaker 1: think you're right, but definitely seek it out. It's it's
Speaker 1: really great, all right. That's I gotta add that to
Speaker 1: the old list. It's something I've seen clips of over
Speaker 1: the years a lot, but for some reason, just never
Speaker 1: got to it. Um. Alright, So my next one is
Speaker 1: a movie about a fictional Motown R and B band,
Speaker 1: and it is dream Girls, the Great two thousand six
Speaker 1: Films from Bill Condon. Uh. I love dream Girls. My
Speaker 1: wife loves dream Girls. I think it's got some of
Speaker 1: the best original songs of any music movie of all time.
Speaker 1: The acting is amazing. Uh, Eddie Murphy is unbelievable. Um,
Speaker 1: Jamie Fox Beyonce. I mean it's it's really one of
Speaker 1: my favorite music movies of all time. And I grew
Speaker 1: up as a kid, like my parents weren't into music
Speaker 1: very much. I wasn't like I didn't have the dad
Speaker 1: that was like, hey, this is Simon and Garf, Uncle,
Speaker 1: you gotta listen to this. This is amazing. Like they
Speaker 1: sort of liked music, but it just wasn't a big thing.
Speaker 1: Like I got my music from listening to Casey Kyson
Speaker 1: every weekend and being a radio head as a you know,
Speaker 1: nine year old. And um. The one album they did
Speaker 1: have though, was the Big Chill Soundtrack like every boomer
Speaker 1: and when I was whatever, I mean, I can't remember
Speaker 1: when that came out. I had to be like eight
Speaker 1: or nine. I was introduced to some of the best
Speaker 1: music in history, and I was introduced to motown. And
Speaker 1: from that moment on, I was like I was a
Speaker 1: nine and ten year old that was listening to Aretha
Speaker 1: Franklin and the Supremes and Otis reading and uh and
Speaker 1: I mean, you name it man, and it just it's
Speaker 1: a love that is still with me today. I still love.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things to do, and it's just
Speaker 1: a big group hang out is just put on a
Speaker 1: Motown You can never go wrong with a motown playlist
Speaker 1: as far as just satisfying the most people with like
Speaker 1: good time music. Yeah, it's the easiest music on the
Speaker 1: planet to like, I mean, because like I mean, no
Speaker 1: matter what genre you might be into, yeah, you're putting
Speaker 1: on you know, Supremes or four Tops or something. People
Speaker 1: are going to respond positively to it. I've never seen
Speaker 1: dream Girls. I've heard it's great. I've heard Murphy's great.
Speaker 1: I heard he got Robbed for Guys here and it's great.
Speaker 1: I mean the songs themselves are just phenomenal, and it's
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean, you know, it's broad I think
Speaker 1: it was a Broadway show before it was a movie,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Um, really really great, great movie.
Speaker 1: Have you seen that movie Standing in the Shadows of Motown?
Speaker 1: The about the backing musicians that we have that in
Speaker 1: twenty ft from Stardom? Yeah, or a couple of my
Speaker 1: favorite sort of behind the scenestocks. Those are good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the whole this the whole Motown Factory. It's
Speaker 1: such a fascinating period that they could just like turn
Speaker 1: out this music in a very sort of like automated
Speaker 1: kind of way, and yet it was so great and
Speaker 1: they had so much soul to it. You think that
Speaker 1: there would be a chance that this music could be
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, forgettable, you know, because they
Speaker 1: were just churning it out so much. But they those
Speaker 1: musicians were so great and the songwriters were just like
Speaker 1: the greatest ever. You know, they just hit upon a
Speaker 1: groove and it was it was, it was phenomenal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So my next film is a movie that it's part
Speaker 1: of this wave like in the last ten years, it's
Speaker 1: been just like a ton of like music documentaries that
Speaker 1: have come out, um that are authorized documentaries, Like there
Speaker 1: was just this past week HBO they debuted, um the
Speaker 1: Bigs documentary how Can You Meant a Broken Heart? We
Speaker 1: can't wait to see that. It's you know, I have
Speaker 1: a couple qualms with it, but overall, I really really
Speaker 1: liked it. I think it's it's a very entertaining movie. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think that the best example of like this
Speaker 1: recent run like artists authorized docs is History of the Eagles,
Speaker 1: which came out I think in like thirteen or fourteen,
Speaker 1: And this is a movie where, you know, if you
Speaker 1: don't like the Eagles, I think you would actually enjoy
Speaker 1: this film more than a person who loves the Eagles,
Speaker 1: because it's the rare movie like this that I think
Speaker 1: is an actuals and all depiction where the main guys
Speaker 1: do not come off very well, like Don Henley, Glenn
Speaker 1: Fry don't come off very well. To what degree that
Speaker 1: was that they were conscious of that, I don't know, Uh,
Speaker 1: it may have been over their heads a little bit, um,
Speaker 1: but this movie, to me, it's such an entertaining snapshot.
Speaker 1: I think of like what happened to rock music between
Speaker 1: the early seventies in the early nineties, Like if you
Speaker 1: just wanted to like kind of see one story that
Speaker 1: like traced how rock music went from being this sort
Speaker 1: of like hippie, feel good kind of music to being
Speaker 1: like uber corporatized, you know, boomer sort of like nostalgia
Speaker 1: thing by the nineties. This film covers it, like, you know,
Speaker 1: covers it perfectly. It's like a long movie. It's about
Speaker 1: three and a half hours long. There's like two parts
Speaker 1: to it. Um, but it's so colorful. There's so colorful
Speaker 1: characters in this movie. It's very quotable. Uh there's there's
Speaker 1: are we allowed to swear on this podcast? Or do
Speaker 1: you like? Okay? So one of my favorite scenes in
Speaker 1: this movie is, like it comes in the second half
Speaker 1: where David Geffen is talking about his feud with Don
Speaker 1: Henley and he looks into the camera and he says,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think this is something he said
Speaker 1: to Don. He said, I'd rather die than let you
Speaker 1: fuck me. And that's a line I quote all the time.
Speaker 1: I just think that's a hilarious line. Um. And by
Speaker 1: the way, we will definitely be doing a multi part
Speaker 1: series on the Eagles on right very soon. But yeah,
Speaker 1: if you if you love seventies rock, if you love
Speaker 1: just like kind of down and dirty, like feuding, this
Speaker 1: movie is for you. And again, if you hate the Eagles.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people hate the Eagles, I
Speaker 1: actually think you'll like this movie more because then if
Speaker 1: you're a fan, because you will justify your dislike of them,
Speaker 1: but you'll also be entertained by the movie as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So here's my history of the Eagles is. I grew
Speaker 1: up a really big Eagles fan when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: I love the Eagles, and um new you know, knew
Speaker 1: all those songs backwards and forwards. Then I think because
Speaker 1: of classic rock radio, which is there's a great line
Speaker 1: in that movie where I think Henley is saying like
Speaker 1: we were kind of fading away and then classic rock
Speaker 1: radio started and that was it, Like you could hear
Speaker 1: our songs forever now, And he's right, and a hundred
Speaker 1: years I'll be playing the Eagles on a classic rock
Speaker 1: radio station. But it got so overplayed, and I sort
Speaker 1: of also got caught up in the the anti Eagles
Speaker 1: thing that came about, which I think Big Lebowski has
Speaker 1: a little bit shoulders. I kind of was done and
Speaker 1: didn't listen to the Eagles at all for many, many years,
Speaker 1: and this documentary made me rediscover my love for the
Speaker 1: Eagles to where I was like, why am I not
Speaker 1: listening to this band? I fucking love these songs? And
Speaker 1: that all culminated with me going to see this last
Speaker 1: Eagles tour as a guest. The stuff you should know
Speaker 1: listener is um one of the one of the techs. Uh.
Speaker 1: He's not a guitar tech. He sort of does like um, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to volte what he actually does, but
Speaker 1: he's on the crew like a high high place member
Speaker 1: of the road crew, and he uh invited my wife
Speaker 1: and I and gave us like I got to stand
Speaker 1: on the stage at Philips Arena with the curtain up
Speaker 1: with everyone out there, with like fifteen thousand people kind
Speaker 1: of stirring, and I got to touch Don Henley's drum set,
Speaker 1: and I got to touch you know, Glenn Fry's son
Speaker 1: has all his dad's guitars there, and uh, and I
Speaker 1: got to like touch those and touch Joe Walsh's guitars,
Speaker 1: and it was it was amazing, dude. It was a
Speaker 1: great show. Um, what can you say about going to
Speaker 1: a conswert where they play thirty five songs that everybody
Speaker 1: knows by heart. It's a ridiculous amount of great music
Speaker 1: and huge, huge, monster hits. So that documentary was a
Speaker 1: big deal for me. That really made me rediscover my
Speaker 1: love for them. Yeah, and it I agree. I mean
Speaker 1: I have like a love hate relationship with the Eagles
Speaker 1: for like the reason that you're saying that, like they
Speaker 1: were a band that would I just felt like you
Speaker 1: could not get away from for the longest time. But
Speaker 1: if you can actually step back and just look at
Speaker 1: those songs as like craftsmanship, I mean they are, like
Speaker 1: you know, they're like a brick ship house of songwriting.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can get ridiculous and a trade those songs.
Speaker 1: They're like just perfectly written. They're almost like two perfect
Speaker 1: sometimes like because I sometimes like things that aren't quite
Speaker 1: that well crafted. But you can't deny, you know, what
Speaker 1: they put in those songs. There's a reason why those
Speaker 1: songs are played so much. Like you here, take it easy,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's kind of like a perfectly written song,
Speaker 1: you know, from from beginning to end. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but I just want to say because I do, because
Speaker 1: I know some people instantly recoil at the Eagles, I
Speaker 1: think because of the big Lebowski thing, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, if you're not a fan, I
Speaker 1: think you'll still enjoy this movie because the story itself
Speaker 1: is like so interesting, and the characters in that movie, yeah,
Speaker 1: are so colorful. Um that it's more entertaining than most
Speaker 1: documentaries about a band that you might actually love. You know,
Speaker 1: There's so much there that I think is really great.
Speaker 1: So yeah, History of the Eagles alright, number four on
Speaker 1: my list is actually my favorite favorite documentary about a band. Um.
Speaker 1: And this is hard because there's the list is long,
Speaker 1: but uh, as a Tom Petty fan, it doesn't get
Speaker 1: any better than Peter Bogdanovich's epic, epic, like four hour
Speaker 1: documentary on Tom Petty in The Heartbreakers Running Down a Dream.
Speaker 1: It's just I mean, all rock documentary should be four
Speaker 1: hours long, you know what you've seen this well yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean the Eagles one is that long too.
Speaker 1: I was thinking that during the Bigs documentary, Like that
Speaker 1: is one of my quibbles with that movie is that
Speaker 1: that's another band with a fascinating story where it could
Speaker 1: be three or four hours long, and they end up
Speaker 1: cutting out some things that I think are interesting for
Speaker 1: the same in order to keep it under two hours. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm so glad you brought up this movie,
Speaker 1: Like this might be my favorite movie to watch if
Speaker 1: I'm up late at night and uh I've had some
Speaker 1: sal we say chemical enhancement, and and I just want
Speaker 1: to hang out and feel good. Yeah, man, put On
Speaker 1: Running Down a Dream like, I will always be happy
Speaker 1: to see that movie. It just puts me in like
Speaker 1: the happiest place. It's the best. I mean, there was
Speaker 1: no one better than Tom Petty. And the Warren Zanes
Speaker 1: book is just amazing. Like I can just give it
Speaker 1: all to me. Uh, if Stan Lynch wrote a book,
Speaker 1: I would read it. Um. I think that that's got
Speaker 1: to happen. That's the Rivals episode at some point, prob. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or I mean Stan Lynch and Jimmy Irvine, you know who.
Speaker 1: I just wrote a huge I wrote a list of
Speaker 1: like my favorite hundred favorite Tom Petty songs. It was
Speaker 1: like a twelve thousand word story I wrote and I
Speaker 1: got to read that, and one of my beefs in
Speaker 1: there was you watch that movie and you watch other
Speaker 1: Tom Petty things. Jimmy Irvine is always knocking. Stan Lynch
Speaker 1: is drumming, And I think Stan Lynch is a great drummer.
Speaker 1: I love I love I love his drumming, I love
Speaker 1: his backing vocals. I love him as a personality, Like,
Speaker 1: I think he's funny. I could see how he would
Speaker 1: be obnoxious if you're Tom Petty, like because he was
Speaker 1: always I think, kind of given Tom shit a little bit.
Speaker 1: But and he wanted to be. He was a rock star.
Speaker 1: He was tall and good looking, sort of brash, all
Speaker 1: about the chicks and um, I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: he added uh sort of a wild card element to
Speaker 1: that band though that I love. I mean, no knocking
Speaker 1: Uh is Steve Arron. Yeah, he's a great drummer too,
Speaker 1: But like he was, but he wasn't he was gonna
Speaker 1: do what Tom said, you know, stand Lynch. I think that,
Speaker 1: I mean, I look, I love The Heartbreakers with Steve
Speaker 1: ARRONI but like it seems like the Heartbreakers with stand
Speaker 1: Lynch is like a different entity. It kind of feels
Speaker 1: like more like a real band band type thing where
Speaker 1: each guy's got a personality to it. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's what really comes through. And the documentary too,
Speaker 1: is because of his success as a quote unquote solo artist.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's sort of it is like Bruce
Speaker 1: Springsteen and the E Street Band, But the Heartbreakers were
Speaker 1: they all he always wanted to think of themselves as
Speaker 1: a real band. Like if it was up to Tom Petty,
Speaker 1: they may have just been called the Heartbreakers and not
Speaker 1: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. And uh, one of my
Speaker 1: favorite parts of that documentary is this the Stephen story
Speaker 1: when you know they're obviously such good friends and she
Speaker 1: wanted to join them, and like it's Stevie fucking Knicks
Speaker 1: in and Tom Petty and that Gainesville drawl just goes,
Speaker 1: they are we don't have girls in the Heartbreakers, he
Speaker 1: says in such a sweet way. It's it's just such
Speaker 1: a great line. It's wild. Then then then you know,
Speaker 1: Mike Campbell ends up in Stevie Nicks's band. You know,
Speaker 1: like she obviously just wanted a little bit of that
Speaker 1: Heartbreakers feel. You know, it was a Great Tour. I
Speaker 1: didn't get to see that. I've never seen Fleetwood Mac.
Speaker 1: They're like one of the They're one of my big
Speaker 1: sort of holes in my history. Although I love Fleetwood
Speaker 1: Mac obviously. Um Yeah. I think with the Heartbreakers even
Speaker 1: more than the eas Street Band, like Mike Campbell and
Speaker 1: Ben Montench. Those two guys especially, like what they brought
Speaker 1: to Tom Petty songs. It's so integral where I mean,
Speaker 1: anytime he did another project, he still brought those guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had to have Mike Campbell writing Shotgun and Ben
Speaker 1: Montench just as a keyboardist is like one of my
Speaker 1: all time favorites. He's amazing. He was just a kid
Speaker 1: when they started. He was he was the young in Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like a wild man too until he sobered up.
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like he was like the big
Speaker 1: party guy in the band, which I was a little
Speaker 1: surprised by when I watched the movie. I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: thought that necessarily, but he's a cool dude. Um. Next,
Speaker 1: My next movie is, um I think one of the
Speaker 1: great movies of all time, not just the music movie,
Speaker 1: but just as a movie period, and that is Robert
Speaker 1: Altman's Nashville which came out in nine and um. One
Speaker 1: of the great things about this movie, and I feel
Speaker 1: like it was maybe the first movie to do this,
Speaker 1: is that you have all these actors in the movie
Speaker 1: who aren't musicians, but like they actually ended up like
Speaker 1: writing their own songs and like playing instruments. So it's
Speaker 1: not one of those things where you watch a music
Speaker 1: movie and the actor starts playing a song and they're
Speaker 1: clearly like lip syncing, something which I know, for me
Speaker 1: always takes me out of the movie. You know, if
Speaker 1: you're watching a movie and like it's clearly not their
Speaker 1: voice and they're clearly not playing the guitar, it's like
Speaker 1: or they show like a live music scene and like,
Speaker 1: you know, the live sound is like way too perfect,
Speaker 1: and people in the audience can talk to each other
Speaker 1: and they don't have to shout, you know. It's like
Speaker 1: it's so phony. And in Nashville, along with just obviously
Speaker 1: the great drama of that movie and all the great
Speaker 1: actors there in it, I think like the way live
Speaker 1: music is presented in Nashville is so great. And I
Speaker 1: think that like the classic scene in that movie I
Speaker 1: think is the scene like we're Keith Carradine is in
Speaker 1: this nightclub and he starts playing a song called I'm Easy,
Speaker 1: which is which is the song that he wrote, which
Speaker 1: is it's a phenomenal song. And he's playing it and
Speaker 1: all these women that he's like slept with are in
Speaker 1: the audience, and they think that he's singing to them,
Speaker 1: and then finally they realized that no, he's singing directly
Speaker 1: to Lily Tomlin who's in the back, who he hasn't
Speaker 1: slept with yet. He's like trying to seduce heir, and
Speaker 1: he's playing this song. Um, and it's just such a
Speaker 1: wonderful movie. It's a great snapshot of like what that
Speaker 1: city was in the mid seventies, like the country's music industry,
Speaker 1: but just also just a great snapshot of America. Uh.
Speaker 1: And obviously the ending is crazy. I won't say what
Speaker 1: the ending is if you haven't seen it, but UM,
Speaker 1: wonderful movie, highly recommended, great music movie, and just a
Speaker 1: great American film period. Yeah. That's I mean one of
Speaker 1: the masters that was actually UM covered on this show.
Speaker 1: It was It's the favorite movie of John Cameron Mitchell,
Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty cool. And you know, we
Speaker 1: might as well go ahead and throw Headthig in The
Speaker 1: Angry Inches one of the great music movies of all
Speaker 1: them too. I've not seen that. Oh I need to
Speaker 1: see that. It sounds like I really need to see it.
Speaker 1: I've heard it's awesome for some reasons. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I haven't seen that yet. Yeah, great music. Um
Speaker 1: So my number five is a three way tie. And
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna categorize this is behind the scenes. Docks
Speaker 1: and twenty from Stardom is one that we mentioned along
Speaker 1: with Muscle Shoals and the Wrecking Crew and uh and
Speaker 1: as you know, Muscle Shoals and the Wrecking Crew were
Speaker 1: about these two sort of groups of legendary backing musicians.
Speaker 1: Uh and the jeez, I guess the when did they start?
Speaker 1: With the fifties through seventies? That sounds right roughly. Um.
Speaker 1: And these you know, these players that played on some
Speaker 1: of the most iconic songs of all time, uh and
Speaker 1: with the most iconic bands of all time, and they
Speaker 1: were largely unsung to a certain degree. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: speaking of dry By Truckers, Patterson Hoods, Uh Dad David
Speaker 1: hood Is was I think he was a ace player? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And on some of these great records and it's just
Speaker 1: cool to see them get their due. Uh. Same with
Speaker 1: twenty Feet from Stardom and I guess standing in the
Speaker 1: shadows of Motown with with the backup singers. Uh, these
Speaker 1: people that are so talented, and we're comfortable in that
Speaker 1: position of knowing, like, you know what, I'm never gonna
Speaker 1: be the Rolling Stones or the Beach Boys, but I
Speaker 1: might play in a session for these guys. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: I love when music films can access history like that
Speaker 1: through an unexpected portal. You know, it's typical, I think,
Speaker 1: to make a movie about a really famous person and
Speaker 1: to focus on their story. But sometimes those don't work
Speaker 1: as well because it's like, well, we know these stories already,
Speaker 1: or we already have a fixed idea of like who
Speaker 1: um these big superstars are. And it can be and
Speaker 1: if you watch a movie, especially if it's like an
Speaker 1: actor playing a famous person, a lot of times it
Speaker 1: doesn't work because you're like, oh, you're not that guy.
Speaker 1: I know what that other person is. So you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like those movies are great because you're meeting
Speaker 1: these musicians, but it's also like it's another way to
Speaker 1: talk about like this wonderful music of the sixties and
Speaker 1: seventies that we all know, but like maybe we don't
Speaker 1: know this aspect of it, you know. I like with
Speaker 1: the Um Muscle Shoals, I remember being blown away just
Speaker 1: realizing that, you know, because I I'm aware of like
Speaker 1: the like Aretha Franklin and like a lot of the
Speaker 1: great soul people that recorded there, but like Bob Seeger,
Speaker 1: like most of his great hits were recorded there, you know,
Speaker 1: and all those guys play on those songs, and it
Speaker 1: just shows like they could play like with a lot
Speaker 1: of different artists and make it work because they were
Speaker 1: just such great musicians. So yeah, it's it's great to
Speaker 1: be able to learn those stories, you know, and kind
Speaker 1: of add to your appreciation of music you already love. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. So that was my last on the on
Speaker 1: that list ideal of honorable mentions. But what's your number five?
Speaker 1: So and this is actually I had a number one
Speaker 1: on my list, although like all these could be number one.
Speaker 1: But I do love this movie a lot, and it's
Speaker 1: kind of related to what we were just talking about,
Speaker 1: because this is a film that I think did a
Speaker 1: really clever thing where instead of making a movie about
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan in the early sixties, like when he was
Speaker 1: first starting out in New York and Greenwich Village in
Speaker 1: the folk scene. They made a movie about a character
Speaker 1: who could have been in that scene at the same time,
Speaker 1: who was like in Bob Dylan's orbit, but they just
Speaker 1: focused on him and made it about him and made
Speaker 1: it a movie not about success but about failure and
Speaker 1: about coming with failure. And that's Inside Leewin Davis my favorites. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like one of my favorite I think just
Speaker 1: Coen Brothers movies, which is like a great honor for
Speaker 1: me too. I mean, like because I love pretty much
Speaker 1: all their movies, and I find that I have different
Speaker 1: favorites all the time, but Inside Leewin Davis is always
Speaker 1: among my top favorite of their of their films. And
Speaker 1: you know, like I was saying, I love that idea
Speaker 1: that like because in a way, I think that is
Speaker 1: like a Bob Dylan movie, and like Bob Dylan shows
Speaker 1: up at the end, like and you don't see him clearly,
Speaker 1: you hear him, and he's seen. He's presented in a
Speaker 1: way as like a sign of doom because it's like
Speaker 1: there's this guy, you know, Oscar Isaac. Brilliant performance by
Speaker 1: Oscar Isaac as as Lleuen Davis. He's trying to make it.
Speaker 1: He's this sort of more kind of conventional folk singer,
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, like, you're not going to be famous,
Speaker 1: You're not going to ever make it. There's this other
Speaker 1: guy who has just entered the scene. He's gonna like
Speaker 1: do all the things that you wanted to do. Um,
Speaker 1: And I don't know. It's just such a great portrait
Speaker 1: to me because you know, I again, I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, documentaries or books or whatever,
Speaker 1: it always focuses on the people who made it, you know,
Speaker 1: the the icons, the legends. But I'm interested in the
Speaker 1: people who didn't make it, the people who who failed
Speaker 1: in a way that's more relatable. It's another reason why
Speaker 1: this is a movie I could have put on my list.
Speaker 1: Um i'm adeis the Male Shore Measure film, which I
Speaker 1: think is a brilliant film, and it's a similar thing
Speaker 1: where you know, like Mozart's in that movie, but it's
Speaker 1: really about Salieri. It's really about this guy who was
Speaker 1: very successful in his time, but he wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be legendary like Mozart and his curses that he can
Speaker 1: recognize that, like he recognizes the genius of this guy,
Speaker 1: and he knows what it means for him. He knows
Speaker 1: that it means like I'm just like a hack really
Speaker 1: compared to this guy, and how painful that is to realize. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a nice parallel there with inside
Speaker 1: Leewin Davis. It's somewhere kind of thing based on what
Speaker 1: was that guy's name? I think it's is this I
Speaker 1: guess I'm not educated off my classical music. I guess
Speaker 1: I thought there actually was a saliary, But is there not? Actually,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean Lewen Davis, Davan Rock. I think
Speaker 1: I think that was, Like, I don't think because Davan
Speaker 1: Ronk wrote a biography called The Mayor of McDougall Street,
Speaker 1: and I think some of the details from that book
Speaker 1: are in the film. I don't think. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's like supposed to be Dave and Ronk exactly.
Speaker 1: I think it's just a loose inspiration, right exactly. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, just a great movie, great soundtrack, the songs
Speaker 1: are so good, and it's it's a movie I like
Speaker 1: to watch this time of the year, especially because movie
Speaker 1: it's a great winner movie. Yeah, it's always cold. It's
Speaker 1: always cold. And I mean the scene in that movie
Speaker 1: that always stands out to me. It's funny that I
Speaker 1: just brought ups because f Marie Abraham has one scene
Speaker 1: and he shows up to you know, Oscar Issing shows
Speaker 1: up to audition at this famous folk club in Chicago.
Speaker 1: He's like traveled across the country through all these problems.
Speaker 1: He plays in one song and he says, I don't
Speaker 1: hear a lot of money in this. Uh. It's funny
Speaker 1: and it's heartbreaking, but it's like such an accurate sort
Speaker 1: of depiction of like, yeah, this guy is really good.
Speaker 1: He has a lot of talent, but you're not going
Speaker 1: to be the guy. You know, you're not gonna make
Speaker 1: anyone a million dollars and that's it. You had one
Speaker 1: audition and it's over and un timber Lake is so good,
Speaker 1: Adam Driver, Uh Stark Sands who plays Troy Nelson. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Garrett Headlin, I mean John Goodman. It's such a great movie. Um,
Speaker 1: I just pulled up my favorite line of dialogue, if
Speaker 1: you'll allow me, from Carrie Mulligan as Jean, when she
Speaker 1: says they have that great scene in Washington Square Park
Speaker 1: and she just hates him so much. She said, I
Speaker 1: should have had you wear double condoms. But if you
Speaker 1: ever do it again, which is a favorite to women everywhere,
Speaker 1: you should not. But if you do, you should be
Speaker 1: wearing condom on condom and then wrap it in electrical tape.
Speaker 1: You should just walk around always inside a great big
Speaker 1: condom because you are shit. I love that movie so much, man,
Speaker 1: the look of it, that's sort of it's just a
Speaker 1: gorgeous movie to look at. I love everything about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like fuzzy around the edges, you know,
Speaker 1: it kind of has like it feels like it's a
Speaker 1: little frosted over in a way, and it's it's sort
Speaker 1: of like a Cepia tone, but like it's not I
Speaker 1: don't know. There's something about that movie where it's romantic
Speaker 1: on one level, but yeah, it's also like kind of brutal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's just it's just like digs in like the
Speaker 1: the knife. Like there's that scene to like we're jeans
Speaker 1: on stage. I think it's Jane and Max. Max Casella
Speaker 1: is the owner of the club. Yeah, and he's just
Speaker 1: talking about the other, like all the women he wants
Speaker 1: to sleep with, He's like, yeah that Jane. I love
Speaker 1: to sleep with Jane and I sleep with But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so good man. It's such a great movie and
Speaker 1: a great choice. So yeah, that would be number one
Speaker 1: on my list today. But if if I was on
Speaker 1: your show again tomorrow talking about music movies, I probably
Speaker 1: have a different number. It's not fair, And I'll have
Speaker 1: you back for sure, because we have clearly a lot
Speaker 1: to talk about. But my honorable mentions and I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna kind of tick through these quickly. If you're looking
Speaker 1: for good music movies and documentaries, there's a movie called
Speaker 1: Sing Street, which is just fantastic. Love that movie from
Speaker 1: the director of Once, another great music movie. Um, Sing Street,
Speaker 1: coming of age movie? Um set in I guess is
Speaker 1: it Ironlanders at Scotland? Yeah, it's Dublin in nine ten
Speaker 1: eight five. So if you have any love for sort
Speaker 1: of early to mid eighties new wave wrapped in a
Speaker 1: great coming of age love story, I would highly recommencing
Speaker 1: Street absolutely. I'll second that. Uh. Along those similar lines, um, geographically,
Speaker 1: twenty four hour party people in a great movie. Yes,
Speaker 1: I just I rewatched that not that long ago. Steve Coogan, good. Yeah, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Just two of the movie about a time in music
Speaker 1: history that just really encapsulates what was going on at
Speaker 1: Factory Records, and um, just sort of the birth of
Speaker 1: this genre. Almost Yeah, so good. I was also gonna say, uh,
Speaker 1: there's a movie called Control, which is a Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a bio pick about Joy Division, very small
Speaker 1: indie style, which is a good movie. I mean because
Speaker 1: twenty four Hour Party People kind of has like a
Speaker 1: Joy Division bio pick tucked inside of it, like the
Speaker 1: first half of it, and like the Ian Curtis in
Speaker 1: that movie, it's so great and how that movie is
Speaker 1: so good? Yeah, that could have been on my list easily.
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for a great Smith's movie. I know that
Speaker 1: they did one a few years ago, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it was very well received, so I didn't even
Speaker 1: see it. I wasn't even aware that there was a
Speaker 1: Smith's movie. Yeah, let me see here. I'm gonna look
Speaker 1: it up. It's called Uh, England is Mine from three
Speaker 1: years ago, based on the early years of Morrissey. Um,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't supposed to be very good, so I
Speaker 1: kind of was like, I don't even want to Sometimes
Speaker 1: if you love a band, you don't want it tainted
Speaker 1: by a bad depiction. Oh yeah, it can be. It
Speaker 1: can be so annoying to see a movie about a
Speaker 1: band you love and they just get everything wrong. A
Speaker 1: handful of documentaries that I think are great over the
Speaker 1: last like ten years, Searching for Sugarman, Um, great great
Speaker 1: movie with with a cool central mystery. A band called Death.
Speaker 1: Great documentary about this kind of unknown Detroit punk band,
Speaker 1: like all black punk band, which was very much an
Speaker 1: outsider kind of thing at the time. I like that movie.
Speaker 1: Great documentary. Um, David Crosby, remember my name, Really Warts
Speaker 1: and All, if you want to talk about Warts and
Speaker 1: All documentaries. It's such a sad thing to watch on
Speaker 1: one hand, and that he's just like, I've been an
Speaker 1: asshole my whole life and now I'm alone because of it.
Speaker 1: I know. Well. And yeah, I mean we did a
Speaker 1: four part series on or was it was three parts actually,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm a sucker for any CSNY content. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I mean their story is crazy with a number of
Speaker 1: beefs and allegiances and like I'll go make a record
Speaker 1: with you, but not you, and then now we'll get
Speaker 1: together and make some music. But not him, and we'll
Speaker 1: tour together. But Neil Young will be out of here
Speaker 1: in three weeks. And it's just such a crazy story.
Speaker 1: Let me see here, Linda ron Stat The Sound of
Speaker 1: My Voice, great great doc that beats rhymes in life.
Speaker 1: A Tribe called Quest from Michael Rappaport. It's a little
Speaker 1: uneven and not the best film, but if you love
Speaker 1: a tribe called Quest, it's it's a pretty great documentary. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was a fan of that too. Festival Express, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. That's about like that Canada tour with the
Speaker 1: band and on the train. Yeah, that's awesome, great, great footage,
Speaker 1: some of the best archival footage of some of those groups. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then more recently Eight Days a Week the touring
Speaker 1: years about the Beatles, uh from Ron Howard. Fantastic, that's great.
Speaker 1: I have a couple uh recommendations here too. I guess
Speaker 1: um in terms of just like overblown biopics that I love,
Speaker 1: Oliver Stone's The Doors. It's a movie that is like
Speaker 1: so campy. I actually I quoted a bit of dialogue
Speaker 1: from this movie in the epigraph of my second book,
Speaker 1: Twilight or the Gods, just because I loved it. It
Speaker 1: was just this. It was like a total biopics scene,
Speaker 1: like where Raymond's Eric is saying, like, you know, people
Speaker 1: are in the streets, man, they're looking for something that
Speaker 1: we need to be the spokesman of our generation. And
Speaker 1: then Jim Morrison says, yeah, man, there should be orgies too.
Speaker 1: You know. So I rewatched The Doors recently. It's so ridiculous,
Speaker 1: but I hold up, well, it depends on what you're
Speaker 1: looking for, if you if you embrace the ridiculous, overblown,
Speaker 1: like you know, sort of campiness of it, I think
Speaker 1: it's great. Like I I really enjoy it, and I
Speaker 1: like The Doors to Like there are another band like
Speaker 1: the Eagles that people sure have a hat. You have
Speaker 1: a phase, yeah, where you hate that where you love
Speaker 1: them for a while. Then I think it's kind of
Speaker 1: fashionable to hate them. But yeah, I mean I love
Speaker 1: The Doors. In college, I was in a big Doors
Speaker 1: phase when that movie came out, so it was an event,
Speaker 1: Like we went opening night and I thought it was
Speaker 1: like one of the best rock and roll movies I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. Um and just haven't seen it much since then,
Speaker 1: So I'm sort of afraid to maybe you shouldn't. Maybe
Speaker 1: you should just preserve that memory. But I think it's
Speaker 1: a lot of slet it be there. I enjoy another
Speaker 1: another movie that like that's more like an unconventional rock movie,
Speaker 1: but I think it's really great. Is Velvet gold Mine
Speaker 1: the Todd Haynes. Yeah, where they didn't have the rights
Speaker 1: to the David Bowie catalog, but like he still made
Speaker 1: it work, and like I think it's a great movie
Speaker 1: about like the idea of David Bowie and like a
Speaker 1: like a fan's perspective, like one fan's perspective on what
Speaker 1: he meant. And um, you know, great performances by Ian McGregor.
Speaker 1: Plays like an Iggy pop type person. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's Iggy Pop, but he's like so greatly based on him.
Speaker 1: Great movie. Um, A great movie from like the early eighties.
Speaker 1: I think has been overlooked a little bit over the years.
Speaker 1: Tender Merci's Bruce Parris for his movie. Robert Daval won
Speaker 1: an Oscar for this movie for best a. Um. It's
Speaker 1: a movie that like like if you've seen Crazy Heart,
Speaker 1: the Jeff Bridges movie, this is like the precursor to that,
Speaker 1: Like where Robert Daval was like an alcoholic country singer
Speaker 1: who's trying to remake his life. I like Crazy Heart.
Speaker 1: I think Tender Mercy's is a much better movie. It's
Speaker 1: really beautiful, really well done, gentle movie. This is another
Speaker 1: movie like Robert Daval like wrote his own songs for
Speaker 1: this movie and he sings them in the movie, and
Speaker 1: it really kind of gives like an authenticity to this,
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like a Whalen Jennings type person.
Speaker 1: But definitely seek that out. Wonderful movie. And the last
Speaker 1: one I'm gonna recommend. This is a movie that like
Speaker 1: I avoided for a long time because I thought I
Speaker 1: wouldn't like it. I thought it'd be annoyed by it.
Speaker 1: But I saw it recently and I really loved it.
Speaker 1: It's Edgar Wright, Scott Pilgrim versus the World. We just
Speaker 1: covered that on the show. It's a great, great movie.
Speaker 1: It's a great movie. I don't know why I thought
Speaker 1: I wouldn't like it, but it's a great movie. And
Speaker 1: it's a great app shot of like sort of like
Speaker 1: like a pop punk, emo indie rock world of Like
Speaker 1: when that movie came out, which would have been I
Speaker 1: think like the late odds, like two ten or so.
Speaker 1: I think that came out something like that. Um Uh,
Speaker 1: it's a very busy movie, like very you know, lots
Speaker 1: of things happening at once, but um it feels like
Speaker 1: a like a video game essentially. Um. But it's really
Speaker 1: well made, really funny, in engaging. I thought Michael Sarah
Speaker 1: was great. Jason Schwartzman is in it. Uh, Breed Larson
Speaker 1: plays this like ex girlfriend who's like a rock star,
Speaker 1: and like she's really great in that role. There's like
Speaker 1: so many people before they like really blew up, we're
Speaker 1: in that movie. Yeah, really great cast and like actually
Speaker 1: I think like a really good soundtrack to of like
Speaker 1: sort of like sound alike songs like done in the style. Uh.
Speaker 1: So if you're like me and you were like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like that movie, definitely see that movie.
Speaker 1: Although I'm sure I feel like most people love that movie.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty beloved cult movie by this right now
Speaker 1: for sure. Um. But yeah, Scott Pilgrim Versus the World.
Speaker 1: So I feel like we could just keep listening movies forever.
Speaker 1: I keep thinking of new movies I want to talk about,
Speaker 1: but consider this part one. Then you know we'll have
Speaker 1: you back. I think you'd be fun to talk more
Speaker 1: about movies we love, and also it might be fun
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about some of the ones
Speaker 1: that have really gone wrong, because there have been some bad,
Speaker 1: bad rock and roll movies about either great bands or
Speaker 1: ideas like the CB g B movie where you're just like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: how could you funk that up? Um? So maybe it'd
Speaker 1: be fun if he came back for a part two
Speaker 1: where we kind of talked about both our favorites and
Speaker 1: some of the ones that they just really screwed up.
Speaker 1: That would be phenomenal, man, I would really enjoy that. Alright, Steve, Well,
Speaker 1: it was great meeting you, my friend. I knew this
Speaker 1: was gonna go this way and that we could probably
Speaker 1: go for like three hours if we had nothing else
Speaker 1: going on in our lives. But thank you for giving
Speaker 1: me so much time. I have a lot of new
Speaker 1: great recommendations. I'm gonna go read this Tom Petty uh
Speaker 1: from up Rocks the best Tom Petty songs ranked right
Speaker 1: after we hang up and go check out your books
Speaker 1: buy them. Your Favorite Band Is Killing Me about musical Robberies,
Speaker 1: Twilight of the Gods about sort of you know, the
Speaker 1: heyday of classic rock, The Black Crow's Book Hard to Handle,
Speaker 1: and most recently, This Isn't Happening. If you love Radiohead
Speaker 1: and kid A can't wait to start this book, Um,
Speaker 1: go out and buy these books. And yes, Charles, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Movie Crash is produced and written by
Speaker 1: Charles Bryant and Roll Brown, edited and engineered by Seth
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson, and scored Yaniel Brown here in our home
Speaker 1: studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the i
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,