WEBVTT - Nvidia Touts Energy Efficiency of Chips at Washington Summit 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:10.720 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.960 Wait inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.360 America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:22.880 tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.840 and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.760 Jess pulling up shairs of Nvidia on the terminal because 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:33.680 we want to talk about It's up about four percent. Listen. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.239 We talk about a Hi every Day, came up at 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.000 a conversation that a Lisa Bramo It's had with JP 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.519 Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimond. You can find that by 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.520 the way on the Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.560 We'll hear more too from Jamie Diamond in our next segment. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.880 But when it comes to AI, there have been a 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.159 lot of concerns about it, when it comes to the 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:57.560 electricity demands of artificial intelligence commute computing. On that, Nvidia 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.400 is out today tauting the energy efficiency of its latest 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.080 chips and that is why you're seeing some support in 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.520 in video shares. As I said, Tim up about four percent. 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.800 Here with more on that. Bloomberg News US semiconductor and 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:09.800 networking reporter Ian King. He joins us from our San 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.759 Francisco bureau in we have this AI summit in Washington, 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.080 d C. Tell us about the event and what news 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:16.680 we got out of Nvidia, and I just want to 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.440 contextualize this a little bit. Torston slock over it, Apollo 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.600 sunds out notes all the time. He sent one today 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.880 that talked about data centers use twenty six percent of 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:30.840 Virginia's total power consumption. So just a little idea of 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.520 what we're talking about when it comes to demand of 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:34.119 these things. 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.240 Yeah, I mean, in general, Invidio in Washington trying to 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.520 make a pitch to government and various industries. You know, 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.559 if the rest of the industry is kind of trying 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.880 to chase them in terms of hardware and make hardware 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.000 as good as I kind they're already basically forging food 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.240 and saying, hey, no, we're going to make it possible 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.880 for everybody to use AI. And you know if you 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.400 like that, trying to shift the whole industry forward, and 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:58.920 that's why they're in Washington. But as you say, the 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.720 power of is a continuing kind of concern that everybody 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.840 has about the overall adoption of this technology, and therefore, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.800 in video is trying to position themselves and their technology 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.880 as kind of the answer rather than the problem. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.799 All right, so tell us about exactly what we got. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.760 I read in your story in Blackwell chips using three 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.239 gigawatts of power to develop open ais GBT for software. 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.440 So that's a pretty big reduction from what it has used. 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.200 Well, this is that for their sort of illustration purposes. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.360 This is they're arguing that this is more efficient. And 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.880 the reason they're doing that is because the previous generation 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.640 of Hopper chips they drew about seven hundred watts. The 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.720 new version that's coming to the market right now, called 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.799 Blackwell will draw one point three killer watts, and that's 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.720 obviously a lot more. So everybody's like, oh dear, is 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.280 this going to like cause the earth to go dark? 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:57.799 And the answer is maybe maybe not. I mean, the 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.720 problem Their argument is, look, it works so much faster, 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.760 therefore it's more efficient. And that is true in one way. 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.240 But if you deploy more black Wells then you deployed Hoppers, 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.800 then maybe we've got more overall power being drawn. So 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.160 there's a very nuanced argument being made here for how 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:18.400 these things should be deployed. 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.840 Maybe it will cause the world to go dark unless 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.080 we put nuclear reactors and nuclear power plants back online 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.000 like Microsoft Constellation are trying to do when it comes 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:29.760 to Through Mile Island. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:30.920 Maybe. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.200 Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of solutions, a 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.760 lot of to this problem, and nuclear is one of 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.440 the power source problems building these data centers in where 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:44.000 there's more renewable energy available. Jensen Wang, he talks to 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.400 about it on like a micro level, where a lot 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:50.040 of the power and is wasted in cooling these things 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.240 down because they get so hot. So his latest generation 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.160 is going to be actually water cooled, which is kind 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.000 of a back to the future sort of approach towards 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.600 this thing, and that will reduce the overall energy. So 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.120 there are lots and lots of solutions being offered, but 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.800 there's no doubt that they are absolutely needed because of 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.760 the path that we're on in terms of data manipulation 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:12.119 and what that means for the amount of computing that's 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:12.760 being deployed. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:13.120 Yeah. 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:16.040 There's another story today right about Google working with utilities 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.320 in the US and other countries to assess nuclear power 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.520 as a possible energy source for them. Okay, all right, 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.760 So it just feels like yay innovation, yay, possibly other 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.880 big problem. Having said that, in video, Ian also talked 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.919 about agent blueprints some software news. What's that all about? 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:38.640 Help us understand, help us become smarter? When it comes 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.680 to what end Video is up. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.560 To, Yeah, I mean they're basically trying to do it 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.440 all for everybody. Anything that they see as an obstacle 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.359 towards the adoption of AI, they're coming up with a 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:52.080 solution for. It's a remarkably dynamic effort, and whether it'll 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.479 be successful or not, we'll see, but it's very hard 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.000 to fault the effort levels that are going on. What 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.560 an agent is. It's that kind of last mile, that 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.080 last piece of software where you've trained your big model. 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:04.800 You're a company, you've trained your big model, you have 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.080 all of the intelligence built in, but then you have 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.160 to have something that deals with the customer open AIS 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.839 general solution isn't good enough, right, You need something specific, 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.120 something that either will help you design a new vehicle, 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.800 or it'll deal with your customer service problems, or it'll 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.800 help you solve a drug discovery issue. And so what 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:26.440 in video is saying is, hey, we'll give you the 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.599 blueprints to do these so you can go even faster, 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.000 no obstacles towards deployment. Companies get out there and do it. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.000 That's what they're doing, and hard to argue that they're 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.640 not foreseeing all of the problems and trying to solve 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:38.279 them right now. 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.080 Again, it's like, buy all our stuff and we'll make 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.239 AI create everything for you. I don't mean to be cynical. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:45.760 I just feel like we're trying to find our way 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:46.039 through this. 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.320 No, it's not being cynical. It's absolutely on point. That's 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:50.880 what they're doing. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.760 It's time for the periodic question about invidious competitors and 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:55.760 just how they're doing it. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:57.480 We have music for that. 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.080 We haven't got to check in with you in a 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.080 little bit, but help us understand how the competitors are 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.360 doing and if they're even on the tracks of video yet. 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.400 Well, we'll find out a little bit more about that 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:14.239 this week. Where you know, the purported closest competitor, AMD, 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.760 they're having a conference later this week, so perhaps we'll 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.560 see some new hardware there, perhaps we'll see some new software. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:22.920 We won't know, but that should give us a nice 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.680 update coming later in the week. But in general, terms 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.800 in video is generally perceived as being sort of still 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.320 over the horizon that everybody else is really chasing hard 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.719 and not really making much of a dent anytime soon. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:37.880 If we weren't talking about Nvidea all the time, if 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.040 we weren't talking about intelling its woes all the time, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:42.880 what would be the chip company that would be front 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:43.520 and center for you. 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.479 Well, we've just seen some song the world's kind of 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.479 second largest largest chip maker, depending upon what day it 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.680 is and how you slice it, coming out and saying hey, 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.760 we're really sorry, we're not good enough. We should be 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:00.480 better than this. Companies like Micron, companies like SKA Hennicks 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.600 have really struggled in some song's wake over the years, 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.000 and some songs kind of dominance has never really been 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.160 doubted in that kind of memoryship area. Sometimes they're admitting 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.280 weakness here. Admittedly Intel would like to have the kind 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.040 of weakness that Samsung has, which is less profits rather 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.720 than no profits. But that's kind of, you know, looks 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.840 like a change of the guard for an industry that's 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.920 really been set in stone for a very long time. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.400 On Intel, anything that you know you're expecting any kind 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:29.680 of news on them anytime soon. 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.880 Well, you know, we're coming into earning season again, and 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.120 really this is a company that cannot afford any more 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:41.240 unforeseen disasters. I think people will be sort of pleasantly, 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.120 sort of reassured if they can manage to do what 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:45.960 they said they were going to do. You remember last 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.600 time we were significantly below forecasts. Intel really needs a 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.680 quarter where it does what it said it was going 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:54.960 to do to kind of help restore stability. 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.280 Unbelievable stuff, all right, bottom line back to Nvidia, because 0:07:58.280 --> 0:07:59.000 I'm just going all around. 0:07:59.040 --> 0:07:59.960 It's going to be where you're gainers. 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.960 It is one of my gainers. Okay, on a scale 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.120 of one to ten, the News in terms of importance 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.680 to the company's business, growth, trajectory and valuation. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.679 Growth is everything, right now? Can they keep this growth going? 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:14.960 That's all anybody wants to see. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.280 All right, that's all we need to know. All right, Hey, Ian, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.360 thank you so much. Bloomberg News US semi conductor and 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.360 networking reporter Ian King. He is out there in our 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.600 San Francisco bure. Be sure to check out his story. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.000 All of his reporting really so informed on the semi space. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.360 You can find it at Bloomberg dot Com meantime and 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:30.560 video shares still. 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.000 Up, Yeah, three point nine percent as we speak. If 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.720 you check out on the Bloomberg Terminal, it's the highest 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.320 going back all the way to July tenth, where it 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.720 was out one hundred and thirty four dollars and ninety cents. 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.719 Anian mentioned Samsung, and you know one of the things 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.360 that we love to do, because they were kind of 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.080 a little like sorry that it was so weak or 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.520 some problems. But I look at the supply chain function. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.720 Apples their number one customer, Best buys their second, Dell 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.000 is their third, so Apple about six point seven percent 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.680 of their revenues for Samsung. So it just makes you 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.120 think about be going on or whatever. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.720 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.000 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.199 on Apple car Play and then Bright Auto with a 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.320 Bloomberg Business app or watch us live on YouTube. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.240 Yeah brings us to today's at Bloomberg. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:17.719 A big take. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.120 It's a story that our editorial team deems is a 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.360 must read. Also a must read on the Bloomberg termin all. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.439 The story I most read on the Bloomberg Terminal, The 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:26.240 story takes us to. 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:27.079 Two US towns. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.840 They sit on opposite sides of a year's long tariff 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.839 battle over a mundane product. The global economy needs to 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.880 keep moving, Carol, we're talking about shipping container trailers. 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.280 I love these stories and they're often done by our 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.360 Sean Donnan because it takes us across the country, tells 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.079 us a story, It helps explain so much. Let's head 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.280 to our Washington DC bureau for more. That's where we 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.520 do find Sean Donnan. He's Bloomberg New senior economics writer. 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.920 I'm Sean. You do you take us across America? Tell stories, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:58.320 explain our economy. Tell us about Pittsview, Alabama, and Poria, Virginia. 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:00.720 Why you are writing about these two areas. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.640 Yeah, thanks so much, Carol. 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.920 Look it often when we talk about tariffs, we think 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.120 about who pays for them, or we get into a 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.720 debate about whether or not they're good economic policy for 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:17.360 a country. And one of the reasons economists actually hate 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.400 tariffs generally is that they create these kind of messy 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:24.480 fights between interest groups oftentimes, and that's really what we want. 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.199 We set out to kind of look at here, and 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.200 there is this mundane product it's incredibly important. It's the 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.400 thing that carries those shipping containers that has zipping by 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.719 you on I ninety five or other interstates, and those chassis. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.600 At one point during the pandemic, when we had all 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.080 that supply chain logjams, they were actually in short supply. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:48.480 There was actually a shortage of them. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.520 And part of the reason for that, and a lot 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.959 of the ports were arguing, was these tariffs that had 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.000 gone into place that suddenly had stopped the imports of 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.120 these trailer shafts seeds that were predominantly made in China 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.840 at the time and by a company called CIMC. And 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.439 so these tariffs went into place in twenty twenty one 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.719 after they were lobbied for in twenty twenty by US producers, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.360 and we look at what came next, and really what 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:19.319 happened there is that CIMC, this big Chinese company, tried 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.400 to set up production in the US in California and 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.120 in the tiny town in Poria, Virginia, just near the 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.959 North Carolina border in the southern part of the state, 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:33.080 and wanted to start doing what Donald Trump and other 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.280 advocates of tariffs would argue they'd like to see foreign 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.960 investors do, and that has created some factory jobs in 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.960 the United States. We've also, at the same time, you 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:47.040 had in Pitts U, Alabama, an outfit called Pitt's Enterprises, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.360 which was one of the US companies that had lobbied 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:50.679 for these tariffs to. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.959 Go into place on CIMC. 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:58.720 It spotted an opportunity in the shortage of trailer chassis 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.360 at the time and decided it was going to import 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.440 some from Vietnam. Well, those chassis actually turned out to 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.000 be largely Chinese customs imposed the tariffs on these Pits 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.040 Enterprise trailers that Pitts Enterprise had lobbied for in. 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.600 The first place. Wait a second, keep out imports. It's 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:15.559 this messy fight. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:18.120 And that's the whole point really here, is that when 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.840 you get these tariffs in place, you get these messy 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.199 fights that come out of them. You get these unintended consequences. 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.280 What I didn't tell you is that CIMC was then 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.600 hit with its own investigation about its shassis and. 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:34.880 Where they were coming from. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:36.960 That shut down production there for more than a year 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.000 and led to a couple hundred people losing their jobs. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.240 US workers losing their jobs. So you know, it's a 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.320 messy fights all about undintended consequences and where kind of 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:49.240 tariffs get you. It's complicated, but that's kind of the point. 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.040 I'm just going to say, the global supply chain, it's messy, 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.880 it's complicated. Like that's one of the big takeaways too. 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.040 And just a reminder, so net net shawan in the end, 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.080 are these towns better off now than they were pre tariff? 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.800 Or these companies better off now? Is this company better 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.280 off now than it was pre tariff? Or if the 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.520 executives could go back in time, would they not have 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:10.280 lobbied for it? 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:16.120 So look, I think the net result potentially for the 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.200 United States when all the dust clears, is some more 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.160 manufacturing jobs in the United States. But we're talking about 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:28.240 a couple hundred, maybe a few thousand manufacturing jobs. And 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.640 we're also talking about higher prices for trailer chassis. And 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.360 this is going to get us back into who pays 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.920 the cost of tariffs that you know, those higher cost 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:41.120 schassis mean that it's more expensive to transport goods around 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.200 the United States, which means higher prices for consumers. It 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.079 should be said that right now in Emporia, Virginia, they're 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.280 just starting to get back to work. CIMC was eventually 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:57.000 cleared and they're ramping up production in Pittsview, Alabama. They're 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:01.960 still facing a terror bill in the tens of millions 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.920 for these trailers that they imported, and they've lost something 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.400 like two hundred and fifty million dollars in revenues and 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.959 they're still fighting this in federal court. 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.240 And if they lose that fight. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.400 That's not going to be good for the company or 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.000 the people of Pittsview, Alabama. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:18.839 One thing that we've also seen sean in the wake 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.280 of tariffs being slapped on Chinese companies during the Trump 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.080 administration those tariffs largely being kept in place by the 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:29.800 Biden administration is the surgeon manufacturing over the border in Mexico. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.920 So not necessarily bringing jobs to the US is it 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.920 was intended, but Chinese companies setting up shop just over 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:41.160 the border and then importing certain goods across the border 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:42.280 to get around those tariffs. 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.520 Yeah, and look that is we're seeing that in all 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.040 sorts of different sectors. That's one of the big concerns 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.320 that Donald Trump talks about when he talks about Chinese evs, 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.640 that they will start producing them in Mexico and avoid 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:59.160 tariffs and coming into the US that way. In the 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.680 case of trailer sh sassis, there has been some production 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.320 that's ramped up in Mexico apparently, and some of the 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:10.280 US producers are taking advantage of cheaper production in Mexico. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.800 It's you know, it's a complicated picture, and I hate 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.920 to keep saying that, but part you know, one of 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.120 the reasons it's complicated as well is that we've seen 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.360 a bit of a trucking recession here in the United States, 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.800 and things have slowed down a bit in terms of 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:28.520 the movement of goods. There may be too many chassis 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.520 that were produced or brought in at one point, so 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.280 that may be a bit of a glut of chassis, 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:35.960 but that can all turn around very quickly. One of 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:37.560 the things we heard in the lead up to this 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.920 port strike, for example recently, is that people were again 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.440 worried that there might be a shortage of chassis because 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.200 when shipping containers sit around, they usually have to sit 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.080 on some wheels, and that means that those chassis can't 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.960 be used to move other shipping containers, and that means 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.760 all of a sudden you get a shortage and more logjam. 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.520 You know, one of the things you reference to the 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.720 idea of you know, being a as a manufacturer here 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.800 in the United States or US based manufacturer, you know, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.720 who do tap into the global supply change on is 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.560 that being able to say made in America and the 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.520 rules around that. I guess what I want to pose 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.120 to you, and I'm not sure forgive me if you've 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.240 got an answer, But I mean, does it matter to 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.920 the American public? I will say increasingly, I am looking 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.520 at where things are made. But I just wonder for 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:30.000 most Americans doesn't matter? Do they care? You know, they 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:32.880 might say, if you were asked, you know, would you 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.920 rather support American jobs versus non American jobs? And people 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.760 might say yes. But would you rather pay for cheaper 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.240 goods that are made outside of America than others? They 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.200 probably would say yes to that too. So I'm just 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.960 curious if this issue matters. 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:45.840 Yeah. 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.000 Look, I think the answer is all over the place 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.280 on this, and I think surveys are all over the 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.640 place on this. You'll often see consumer surveys. Let's say, 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.400 people are willing to spend more if a product is 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.240 American made, But then you know, people go to Best Buy, 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.920 go to Walmart buy a new TV, and that TV 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.640 typically is not made in the United States. It's typically 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.440 made in China or somewhere in Asia. And it is 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.080 that cheap, and it is that big for that cheap 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.919 because it was made overseas. So I think on a Sunday, 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.399 when people sit down to watch the NFL, they don't 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.520 necessarily care about how where that TV was made. They 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.240 care about what a bargain they got and how big 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.320 that TV is and how big those players look on 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:30.520 their living room wall. 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.200 Just thirty seconds. The workers though, they. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:38.120 Care, Yeah, the workers, the workers absolutely care. But look 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.760 one of the stories of and it's totally true that 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.919 we saw a real de industrialization in parts of America 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.640 in the early two thousands as a result of these 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:54.600 jobs going overseas. But the reality, unfortunately, is that the 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.440 number of workers who lost their jobs is much smaller 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.800 than the number of consumers who have benefited from. 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.240 Broader, cheaper prices. 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.600 We are having a huge political debate about this because 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.120 the question is where the balance sits. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:12.600 Well, another story from you with a snapshot of America 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.679 to tell a larger story that is certainly part of 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.960 our political narrative. Shawandan and Bloomberg New Senior Economics writer 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:19.400 on Today's Bloomberg Big Take. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.320 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.199 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.280 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Ad. You 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.600 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.440 New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.720 It is time for another edition of Bloomberg Plugged In. 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.000 It's your weekly look at EV's Carol. You'll remember on Friday. Yes, 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.520 Rivian was one of my decliners during simulcast. Shares taw 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.359 close to nine percent. The company said it had to 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.840 drastically cut its twenty twenty four production targets over yet 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:59.200 another supply chain hiccup. Analysts Ed Ludlow and Kyle porter 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.160 Wright were puzzled as to why Rivian had to do 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.960 such a thing. Ed love thoughs co host of Bloomberg 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:06.879 Technology on Bloomberg TV. He joins us from our San 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.480 Francisco bureau. You and Kyle got to the bottom of 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.959 this d What happened here with the supply chain hiccup? 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.760 Something's been going on at Rivian for a little while, 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.800 and we've been kind of drip fed information, and by 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.119 Friday we knew it was something to do with the 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.359 electric vehicle motor electric motor that they make. It was 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:30.360 a specific single part for a single supplier, and we 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.040 just got to the bottom of it. The single part 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.520 is copper windings, and we can talk about what copper 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:41.720 windings are. The single supplier, according to sources, is Essex 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.480 for Akawa, and the backstory to how they ended up 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.959 in this pickle is quite a backstory indeed. 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.160 All right, so how did they get here? 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.879 Okay, let's do this as simply as we can. Okay, 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.760 Earlier this year, Rivian made a mistake. They did a 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:07.320 booboo and they miscalculated how much copper they would need 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.199 for the electric motors that they made in house. So 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:16.919 it was an error. They phoned up their supplier, for 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.240 want of a better explanation, Essex, and were like, this 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.280