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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. Welcome to Breaking Points. Ryan Groom,

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Speaker 2: great to see.

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Speaker 3: You, sir, Nice to see too.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of news to get through this morning,

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Speaker 2: including some breaking news of dual murder last night and

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Speaker 2: what appears to be a blatant act of political violence.

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Speaker 2: We'll break that down for you. We also have a

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Speaker 2: lot of updates coming out of Israel and Gaza. We

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Speaker 2: have naturally, specifically out of the occupied West Bank. We

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Speaker 2: had a wild situation unfold in the White House yesterday

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Speaker 2: when the South African President came to visit and we

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Speaker 2: actually have someone from South Africa to break down some

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Speaker 2: of the claims that were made in that interaction. Had

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Speaker 2: a wild day in the stock market as well. The

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Speaker 2: bond market also not looking too great. We also should

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Speaker 2: add this in. They did pass the big beautiful bill.

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Speaker 4: Through the House. The margin was one vote.

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Speaker 2: I will remind you that we just had one Democrat,

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Speaker 2: Jerry Connolly, pass away, so he literally ends up being

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Speaker 2: the margin. That actually ties into some of what's going

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Speaker 2: on with the stock market too, so we can talk

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Speaker 2: about that there. We have some court updates with regard

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Speaker 2: to deportations, a judge saying that Trump is blatantly defying

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Speaker 2: their court order. And we've got some AI team ups

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Speaker 2: going on that are kind of interesting.

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Speaker 5: Ran.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, more concentration in the tech spaces. That's what we need,

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Speaker 3: open AI teaming up with Apple to make some tepa

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Speaker 3: super smart smartphone, smart or smart.

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Speaker 2: Something that I can't even really wrap my head around.

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Speaker 2: So well, but we'll do our best. But let's go

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Speaker 2: ahead and start with that breaking news right here out

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Speaker 2: of d C last night. Can put these images up

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Speaker 2: on the screen too. Young Israeli embassy staffers were murdered

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Speaker 2: near the Capital Jewish Museum in d C. According to officials,

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Speaker 2: they do have a suspect. We'll tell you more about

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Speaker 2: him in a moment. They were fatally shot, they say,

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Speaker 2: at close range, while they were leaving an event Wednesday

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Speaker 2: at that Capital Jewish Museum in DC. According to the

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Speaker 2: embassy's spokesperson, can put the Axios article up on the

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Speaker 2: screen here, which has some more details. The two victims

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Speaker 2: have been identified at this point as Jurin Lishinski and

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Speaker 2: Sarah Lynn Milgram in a statement that was shared two

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Speaker 2: x Apparently, the suspect has been identified as thirty year

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Speaker 2: old Elias Rodriguez of Chicago, Illinois. People who were in

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Speaker 2: the area said Ryan that he was sort of pacing

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Speaker 2: around this museum and then when these two young embassy

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Speaker 2: staffers came out, he pulled down a gun and shot

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Speaker 2: him at close range.

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Speaker 3: It seems like he may have tried to get into

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Speaker 3: the event, or may have had ideas plans to get

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Speaker 3: into the event, was not able to do so, and

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Speaker 3: so hung out outside and then you know, shot people

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Speaker 3: who had had come outside, killing them both. He there's

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Speaker 3: video of him chanting Free, Free Palestine as he's getting arrested.

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Speaker 6: We're talking about this a second.

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Speaker 3: Kenklippenstein obtained and postages is his manifesto, which is what

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Speaker 3: you would expect from kind of a hard left activist. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's you know, people can people can find it pretty easily.

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Speaker 6: We can put a little bit of it up.

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Speaker 3: But it's it's rather kind of standard fair Certainly chat

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Speaker 3: GPT could whip this up for somebody. A kind of

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Speaker 3: the sectarian left are arguing arguing on behalf of you know,

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Speaker 3: the use of political violence. To me, it's civilian. You know,

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Speaker 3: civilian violence against civilians has never justified period. You know,

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Speaker 3: you'll often have Israel say that they killed someone in

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Speaker 3: the Hamas like Ministry of Finance.

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Speaker 6: But if you're which is wrong.

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Speaker 3: But and the principle holds across the board, if you're

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Speaker 3: not carrying a weapon in war, yeah, then you're not

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Speaker 3: a legitimate target.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean these are two young Israeli staffers,

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Speaker 2: and you know, if you do care about the cause

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Speaker 2: of Palestine, you also know the way that this will

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Speaker 2: immediately plan to the hands of those who seek to

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Speaker 2: tar the entire movement as violent anti Semitic extremists. At

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Speaker 2: a time when you know in some ways, it seemed

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Speaker 2: that the dam was starting to break in terms of

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Speaker 2: both public opinion and you know, leading figures in Europe

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Speaker 2: and around the world who were starting to speak out.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it's a it's a horrific act of violence.

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Speaker 2: We actually have that video. We can play view of

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Speaker 2: the suspect chanting free Palestine as he is taken into custody.

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Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and play that, guys.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, we can put the manifesto a piece of

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Speaker 2: it up on the screen. As Ryan said, obtained by

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Speaker 2: Ken Klippenstein, before I read this, I do want to

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Speaker 2: read Ken's justification for why he published it, because these

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Speaker 2: things can be Controversially says he's obtained the manifesto allegedly

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Speaker 2: alleged manifesto. He mentioned some reasons why he believes the

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Speaker 2: document to be authentic, and then he says that you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm publishing it here not to glorify the violence, which

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Speaker 2: I find abhorrent and condemned, but so the public can

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Speaker 2: better understand the truth of what happened. Refusing to confront

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Speaker 2: the content of these texts often creates an information vacuum

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Speaker 2: that is quickly filled by hoaxed documents. Conspiracy theories or

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Speaker 2: selective leafs from authorities that can distort the facts. I

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Speaker 2: believe sunlight is the best disinfectant, especially when politics is involved.

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Speaker 4: As the document makes clear, is the case here.

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Speaker 2: And this was the close to that manifesto, which was

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Speaker 2: some nine hundred words long, and it says the action

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Speaker 2: would have been morally justified taken eleven years ago during

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Speaker 2: Protective Edge, around the time it personally became acutely aware

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Speaker 2: of our brutal conduct in Palestine. But I think to

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Speaker 2: most Americans such an action would have been illegible, would

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Speaker 2: seem insane. I'm glad that today at least there are

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Speaker 2: many Americans for which the action will be highly legible

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Speaker 2: and in some funny way, the only sane thing to do.

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Speaker 2: And then he says, I love you, Mom, dad, baby, Sis, etc.

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Speaker 2: Free Palestine, Elliot Rodriguez.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does agree legible, but's still insane. And now

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Speaker 3: anybody that he's been remotely associated with is being kind

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Speaker 3: of roped into this PSL Party for Socialism and Liberation

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Speaker 3: as an organization that was linked to him in the

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Speaker 3: early hours of this.

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Speaker 6: Killing, of this twin killing.

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Speaker 3: PSL has said that he's not a member they disavow

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Speaker 3: any connection to him that he was involved with one

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Speaker 3: chapter that no longer exists for a very brief time,

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Speaker 3: like in twenty seventeen or something, But in a time

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Speaker 3: like this, the kind of state consequences for any organization

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Speaker 3: that's remotely associated with him. Of course, you know when

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Speaker 3: you're trying to when you're trying to say it's somebody

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Speaker 3: like makmun Khalil is a terrorist who was all about

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Speaker 3: peaceful coexistence and reconciliation and just protesting his violence, when

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Speaker 3: the state is willing to detain him indefinitely without charge

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Speaker 3: and call him a terrorist when he is.

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Speaker 6: Completely peaceful in what he's doing.

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Speaker 3: To then associate yourself with him and take it upon

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Speaker 3: yourself to commit these acts of violence against civilians is

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Speaker 3: also taking an action that, to me, you don't even

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Speaker 3: have the right to do if you consider yourself part

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Speaker 3: of a movement, like if you're either part of a

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Speaker 3: movement or you're some atomistic of some neoliberal vigilante, which

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Speaker 3: is a reactionary right wing approach.

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Speaker 4: That's absolutely that is absolutely accurate.

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Speaker 2: And of course immediately people are theorizing that it's a

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Speaker 2: false flag, not because there's any evidence of that, there

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Speaker 2: is no evidence of that, but because of how clearly

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Speaker 2: damaged it is, right, how clearly damaged it is at

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Speaker 2: a time when, to your point, you have this administration

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Speaker 2: that is using any excuse they can to effectively criminalize

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Speaker 2: dissent from the status quo in regard to Israel, when

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Speaker 2: you just had this incident we're going to cover later

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Speaker 2: in the show of the idea firing on diplomats from

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Speaker 2: all around the world and you know, creating a massive

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Speaker 2: diplomatic crisis for itself, separate and apart from the crisis

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Speaker 2: of legitimacy, from starving and bombing Palestinians and killing so

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Speaker 2: many in what has been a mass slaughter over the

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Speaker 2: past number of days. You know, they certainly want to

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Speaker 2: pain anyone who objects to that as an extremist, a barbarian,

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Speaker 2: an anti semi a terrorist themselves. And this will only

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Speaker 2: give sucker to, you know, the people who would use

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Speaker 2: this incident to you know, further crushed descent and wield

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Speaker 2: the power of the state to make sure that no

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Speaker 2: one can, no one can object to what is being

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Speaker 2: done in our names with our money.

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Speaker 3: And when our money in Gaza, did we play Maryo Bowser.

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Speaker 4: Yet, no, we didn't.

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Speaker 2: We can play that, guys, this is actually not I

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Speaker 2: think the piece we have is not actually Marrio Bowser.

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Speaker 2: This is represented the police department here talking about some

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Speaker 2: of the details of the shooting.

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Speaker 4: We can go ahead and take a listen to that.

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Speaker 7: At approximately nine o eight pm tonight, we received multiple

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Speaker 7: calls for a shooting in the area of Third Street

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Speaker 7: and f Street Northwest. Offices located one adult male and

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Speaker 7: one adult female unconscious and not breathing at the scene.

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Speaker 7: DC Fire and Ems responded in. Despite all life saving efforts,

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Speaker 7: both victims succumbed to their injuries. The preliminary investigation indicates

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Speaker 7: that both victims were exiting an event at the Capitol

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Speaker 7: Jewish Museum, located in the five hundred block of Third

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Speaker 7: Street Northwest, when the shooting occurred. We believe the shooting

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Speaker 7: was committed by a single suspect who is now in custody.

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Speaker 7: Prior to the shooting, the suspect was observed pacing back

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Speaker 7: and forth outside of the museum.

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Speaker 8: He approached a group.

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Speaker 7: Of four people, produced a handgun and opened fire, striking

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Speaker 7: both of our decedents. After the shooting, the suspect then

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Speaker 7: entered the museum and was detained by event security. Once

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Speaker 7: in handcuffs, the suspect identified where he discarded the weapon,

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Speaker 7: and that weapon has been recovered, and he implied that

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Speaker 7: he committed the offense. The suspect chanted Free, Free Palestine

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Speaker 7: while in custody. The suspect has been tentatively identified as

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Speaker 7: thirty year old Elias Rodriguez of Chicago, Illinois.

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Speaker 2: So that was DC Police Chief Pamil Smith there with

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Speaker 2: some early details, and President Trump has already weighed in,

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Speaker 2: we can put this up on the screen as well.

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Speaker 2: His comments that I think were posted to truth Social

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Speaker 2: He says, these horrible DC killings based obviously on anti

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Speaker 2: Semitism must now hatred and radicalism have no place in

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Speaker 2: the USA. Condolences to the families of the victims. So

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Speaker 2: sad that such things as this can happen. God bless

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Speaker 2: you all. So that's what we know. Will certainly keep

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Speaker 2: you updated about this, you know, horrific events here in DC.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, we did want to talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about what is unfolding in Israel. So there

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Speaker 2: was recently a large delegation of diplomats from countries around

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Speaker 2: the world touring the occupied West Bank, and let's go

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Speaker 2: ahead and put these images up on the screen. And

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Speaker 2: you can see one of them here, you know, doing

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Speaker 2: a sort of talk to the camera. A few of

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Speaker 2: them in the background as well, and then what you'll

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Speaker 2: see unfold is there were shots fired by the IDF

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Speaker 2: in their direction. You can see them become alarmed here

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Speaker 2: and you know, start to duck and hurriedly move away again.

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Speaker 2: These are diplomats from countries around the world. Representatives from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Netherlands,

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Speaker 2: pole In, Portugal, Romania, UK, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, Brazil, Canada.

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Speaker 2: Huge delegation that was fired on Ryan by the IDF

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Speaker 2: And there was a statement put out afterwards in you know,

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Speaker 2: this was obviously an unbelievable diplomatic crisis statement put out

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Speaker 2: afterwards that said something to the effect of, well, they

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Speaker 2: wandered off of their pre designated path and we regret

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Speaker 2: the inconvenience.

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Speaker 3: Right. So, even if you take the official Israeli explanation

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Speaker 3: as true from start to finish, it's still quite unhinged.

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Speaker 3: And if you roll, if you scroll back in the

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Speaker 3: video and look look in closely. The New York Times

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Speaker 3: is saying they fired warning shots, shot into the air,

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Speaker 3: and all kinds of euphemisms. The guns look like they're

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Speaker 3: pointed pretty closely. Now, they didn't hit anybody, but the

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Speaker 3: guns does look looks like a little.

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Speaker 6: Too close for comfort for a warning shot.

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Speaker 3: And if that scene looks familiar to you, it's Janine

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Speaker 3: and it is very close to where Sharen Abu Akhla

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Speaker 3: was shot and killed by an IDF soldiers, only a

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Speaker 3: few blocks away from there. So their official version is

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Speaker 3: there was an approved route that they were allowed to

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Speaker 3: take through Janine, and that towards the very end, as

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Speaker 3: they were doing these interviews.

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Speaker 6: They deviated from the route.

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Speaker 3: And that required the Israelis to shoot at them to

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Speaker 3: get them back onto.

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Speaker 6: Their approved route.

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Speaker 3: The organizers say they did not deviate from the route.

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Speaker 6: This was the approved route.

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Speaker 3: They were in consultation with the Israelis the entire time,

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Speaker 3: and the only people there are diplomats and journalists who

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Speaker 3: were interviewing the diplomats, setting aside the disagreement over whether

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Speaker 3: or not they're on the route, even if they were

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Speaker 3: slightly off the root right and what planet do you

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Speaker 3: fire at them, and and then and then and do

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Speaker 3: your statements say we regret the inconvenience.

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Speaker 2: And this the authoritarian nature of requiring that you know,

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Speaker 2: under pain of gunfire, you must stay on this one

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Speaker 2: specific route also was quite illustrative. And obviously people are

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Speaker 2: gonna go, okay, well, if this is how they treat

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Speaker 2: foreign diplomats from their some of their greatest allies from

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Speaker 2: around the world, how do you think that they are

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Speaker 2: treating you know, the Palestinians that that reside there, and

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Speaker 2: so also Ryan. Obviously this comes at a time where

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Speaker 2: you have Europe increasingly speaking out and threatening actions and

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Speaker 2: taking some actions because of the you know, ongoing starvation,

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Speaker 2: because of just how how barbaric. The latest ground offensive

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Speaker 2: in Gaza truly has been the high level of deaths,

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Speaker 2: the continued bombing of the rubble and destruction of hospitals.

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Speaker 2: It's gotten to a point where it does sort of

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Speaker 2: feel like there's a bit of a global dam breaking,

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Speaker 2: where people are starting to realize whether their heads have

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Speaker 2: stayed or whether they're we're going to play you, peers

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Speaker 2: Morgan here in a minute. They're starting to realize the

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Speaker 2: way that history is going to view these actions.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and you've had a Spain increasingly cutting economic and

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Speaker 3: military ties with Israel. You had, as you mentioned, the UK,

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Speaker 3: Canada and France all putting out a joint statement and

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Speaker 3: promising concrete action if Israel it doesn't restrain its assault

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Speaker 3: on gods and start letting in humanitarian a You've had

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Speaker 3: net Yahou and Macrone going back and forth. You've had

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Speaker 3: the free trade agreement between Israel and the EU kind

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Speaker 3: of up for review as a result of these human

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Speaker 3: rights abuse. Is Yet in the face of this yesterday

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Speaker 3: we can put this up. My colleague Jeremy Scahe over

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Speaker 3: Dropsite covered this extraordinary net Yahoo's speech where he says

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Speaker 3: that at the end of this UH operation Gideon's Chariot,

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Speaker 3: that Israel will control all areas of the Gaza Strip. Uh.

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Speaker 3: He said that the US and the other Western allies

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Speaker 3: are in full support of killing what he described as

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Speaker 3: quote monsters. This is kind of despite what you might

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Speaker 3: hear he's saying from from the press from the Europeans. Uh.

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Speaker 3: He he talked a lot about UH full ethnic cleansing

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Speaker 3: of the Gaza Strip and repeatedly put it in Trump's mouth.

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Speaker 3: He said, he repeated repeated. He repeatedly used the phrase

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Speaker 3: quote Trump's plan. He called it revolutionary Trump's plan, of course,

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Speaker 3: is that one where he said it's going to become

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Speaker 3: a riviera on the Mediterranean. He's gonna, You're gonna he's

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Speaker 3: gonna move the Palestinians out to Libya or or you know,

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Speaker 3: God knows where. Uh, Yahu said uh. He repeated his

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Speaker 3: stance that Israel will not engage in a permanent cease fire,

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Speaker 3: only temporary ingred only temporary agreements that really lease Israeli captives,

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Speaker 3: and will continue the war of annihilation with the ultimate

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Speaker 3: aim of implementing what he called what he keeps calling

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Speaker 3: quote Trump's plan. And then finally he says Netaw who

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Speaker 3: says it is taking this long to quote defeat Hamas

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Speaker 3: because quote we want to achieve our goals with minimum

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Speaker 3: loss of IDF soldiers. It won't take another eighteen months.

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Speaker 3: And then he added that Isra will only allow aid

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Speaker 3: for gaza that has attributed in individual meal boxes, not

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Speaker 3: trucks with aid for local distribution as they've been doing,

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Speaker 3: and they'll create quote sterile zones to distribute more food.

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Speaker 3: So continuing to use the starvation as part of his

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Speaker 3: as part of his tach land here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of the things that was really significant

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Speaker 2: from his comments is for the first time, he's now

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Speaker 2: asserting that the implementation of Trump's ethnic cleansing plan is

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Speaker 2: now one of his conditions for ending the war.

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Speaker 3: He says it's underway, that it's not a future plan,

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Speaker 3: that he is using the starvation to enact to this plan.

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Speaker 3: This is all happening while Trump is allegedly, like Biden, getting.

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Speaker 4: Very frustrutted behind.

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Speaker 3: The scenes, behind the scenes, very frustrated, and is continuing

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Speaker 3: with his negotiations with a run. They're meeting in Rome

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Speaker 3: on Friday. While Israel, we can put up ce No, no,

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Speaker 3: let's let's put up STE three first, because this, this is,

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Speaker 3: this is relevant to what we were just talking about.

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Speaker 3: Then Yaho has lots of public support like this is.

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Speaker 3: He's not going out on a limb here when he's

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Speaker 3: doing this. The Starvey on Israeli Channel thirteen is does

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Speaker 3: Israel have to let in humanitarian aide to Gaza? Fifty

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Speaker 3: three percent of Israeli say no, So fifty three percent

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Speaker 3: of Israeli is endorsing just objective war crimes, four percent

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Speaker 3: saying yes.

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Speaker 6: Thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Don't know, I would be interested in the religious breakdown

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Speaker 2: in the subtabs.

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Speaker 3: Right if ten to twenty percent are Palestinian citizens of

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Speaker 3: Israel and they're polled there or Druis citizens of Israel.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the numbers for Jewish Is release are almost certainly

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Speaker 2: even higher.

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Speaker 3: Right, those are tipped, The scales are tipped there by

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Speaker 3: that so putting up C four Relevant to all this

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Speaker 3: is that this is a follow up to the CNN

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Speaker 3: story from two days ago. CNN reported based on American

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Speaker 3: intelligence officials leaking to them that Israel was preparing to

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Speaker 3: strike Iran alone without US support. The update to that

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Speaker 3: is now that Israel is planning to immediately strike Iran

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Speaker 3: if talks between Iran and the United States breakdown. So

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Speaker 3: they would not so as long as the talks are going,

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Speaker 3: according to this report in Axios, Israel will hold back.

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Speaker 3: But the that Trump announces things are going nowhere, I'm

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Speaker 3: my people need to come home from Rome with cough

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Speaker 3: is done talking. I'm angry at the Iatola for you

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Speaker 3: know whatever post. Yeah, that they're saying that at that

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Speaker 3: moment they're going to that they're going to.

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Speaker 2: Strike with basically the calculation being from Bbe that Trump

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Speaker 2: will be mad and will accept such a thing. In

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Speaker 2: that moment of talks breaking down, I saw you and

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Speaker 2: Jeremy speculating a little bit like who do you think

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Speaker 2: is leaking THEEDS reports and to what, like what are

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Speaker 2: they trying to accomplish?

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Speaker 3: I think originally it was the one two the CNN

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Speaker 3: was Americans telling basically telling Israel, we're aware that you're

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Speaker 3: doing this, and we don't approve of it.

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Speaker 6: The alternative explanation.

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Speaker 3: Is they do approve of it, but they want to

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Speaker 3: publicly wash their hands of it because the alt on Iran,

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Speaker 3: if it is carried out, could have horrific reverberations around

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Speaker 3: the entire region, and also for American troops who are

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Speaker 3: in the region.

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Speaker 4: Can it be done without our assistance?

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Speaker 6: They can drop bombs?

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Speaker 3: And this also goes back to a point that I've

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Speaker 3: seen my colleague ma Hussein make that the goal is

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Speaker 3: not necessarily.

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Speaker 6: Ending the nuclear the nuclear program.

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Speaker 3: The goal really is to crush Iran politically and substantially,

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Speaker 3: to make it so that Iran is not an economic

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Speaker 3: and political power in the region, an Iran that is

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Speaker 3: no longer sanctioned and is an active and normal part

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Speaker 3: of the global community, even if it does not have

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Speaker 3: a nuclear program, is arguably, from Yahoo's perspective, a bigger

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Speaker 3: strategic threat than a weakened Iran that does have a

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Speaker 3: nuclear program or is close to getting a nuclear program.

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Speaker 3: The idea that the bombing is about the nuclear program

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Speaker 3: misses that analysis that the idea maybe just will just

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Speaker 3: bomb them and keep the sanctions on and then okay, yes,

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Speaker 3: if we have to bomb them every five years, will

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Speaker 3: bomb them every five years, and we'll just do that endlessly.

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Speaker 2: And the last information that we've gotten out of those

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Speaker 2: nuclear talks is not particularly encouraging, although you just never

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Speaker 2: know that the Trump administration where they're going to end up.

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Speaker 2: But you had Witcough coming out and saying insisting on

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Speaker 2: zero enrichment as a clear red line. Other administration official,

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Speaker 2: including Trump himself, has been more like, h we'll see.

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Speaker 2: Other administration officials have said other things at other times.

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Speaker 2: But that's kind of where things are right now with.

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Speaker 4: Regard to that.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's totally plausible that you could have atomic inspectors

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Speaker 3: go in and allow for a civilian nuclear program and

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Speaker 3: prevent it from getting close to breakout. In fact, if

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Speaker 3: you don't do that, you actually make it easier for

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Speaker 3: them to get to that can break out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So again the.

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Speaker 6: Focus on.

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Speaker 3: The focus on whether or not they're going to get

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Speaker 3: the bomb is again it was once again astraction, I

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Speaker 3: think from the broader goal.

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Speaker 4: I think that's well said.

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Speaker 2: The other thing we wanted to bring you an update

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Speaker 2: on is what's going on with Mack mud Khalil, who

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Speaker 2: has been in prison for how many months at this

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Speaker 2: point for quite a while, missed the birth of his

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Speaker 2: newborn son to his you know, his wife is an

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Speaker 2: American citizen, and we can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: He attempted to have a contact visit with his newborn child,

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Speaker 2: who he has not been able to meet yet for

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Speaker 2: you know, the crime of being participating in pro palesign

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Speaker 2: protests at Columbia, and that visit was denied. So this

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Speaker 2: is from the ACLU, they say in a decision that

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Speaker 2: underscores the government's ongoing retaliation against mackmou Khalil in response

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Speaker 2: to his advocacy and support of palestinine rights. Officials from

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Speaker 2: ICE and private prison contractor GEO Group. They're the same

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Speaker 2: one that had the tussle in Newark. But anyway, have

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Speaker 2: refused to allow a contact visit between him and his

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Speaker 2: family and the official site a blanket no contact visitation

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Speaker 2: policy and unspecified security concerns relating to the presence of

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Speaker 2: a mother and a newborn baby. I think we may

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Speaker 2: have another piece of this statement here that we can read.

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Speaker 2: ICE's refusal comes after multiple requests from mister Khalil's legal

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Speaker 2: team that point to federal policies explicitly encouraging contact visits

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Speaker 2: between detained parents and their children. Mister Khalil's team has

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Speaker 2: also noted permission for family visits like these are routinely

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Speaker 2: granted at facilities like the Elizabeth Detention Center in New Jersey,

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Speaker 2: where his attorneys have requested he be transferred. And so,

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're treating him like a hardened, you know,

440
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: the most horrific criminal you can imagine. When they've asserted

441
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: no criminality against him, they've asserted nothing more than him

442
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: being an active member of a pro Palestine movement on

443
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: campus at Columbia, right, And.

444
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 3: These contact visits are They're a normal thing, especially in

445
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 3: a country that has you know, systematized mass incarceration. You

446
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 3: go through a metal detector, you get searched, you and

447
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 3: your baby get searched. You go into a room where

448
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: oftentimes there's lots of other people.

449
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 6: They get searched. They come into that same room.

450
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 3: You meet In that room, you can hug, you can

451
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: sit there specified amount of time. Everybody's watching cameras, guards,

452
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: He goes back to a cell. They go back out

453
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: like this is this is very basic stuff. So to

454
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: deny this is clearly just malevolent and cruelty for the

455
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: sake of it.

456
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no other reading of that.

457
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: At the same time, you have the new president of Columbia,

458
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: Clear Shipment, speaking at their graduation ceremony, and quite a

459
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 2: lot of students not too happy with her or what

460
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: she had to say.

461
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and take listen to that.

462
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 9: Good morning, class of twenty twenty five. I know that

463
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 9: many of you feel good morning, class of twenty twenty five.

464
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 9: I know that many of you feel some amount of

465
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 9: frustration with me, and I know you feel it with

466
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 9: the administration. And I know we have a strong, strong

467
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 9: tradition of free speech at this university. And I am

468
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 9: always open to feedback, which I am getting right now.

469
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 9: The work of your generation will be to shape these

470
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 9: interesting times, to define the.

471
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 2: Values, and I know Ryan, she did also in her

472
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: comments say something about mak Munkhalil and how she understands

473
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 2: that a lot of people are regretting his absence that day.

474
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 2: But I mean, Colombia is really case in point of

475
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: the university that completely bent to whatever the Trump administration

476
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: was trying to throw at it, and all it resulted

477
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: in was more and more demands being made of the

478
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: university versus you know, any sort of like amuseman. I

479
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: know they're just going to give up and go away now.

480
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. And Shipman as a long time, long time a

481
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 3: television correspondent before she got into her other career, was

482
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: a well, very well known figure in like the nineties,

483
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 3: in two thousands, was Good Morning America. Was until recently,

484
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: you know, married to Jay Carney, who himself was a

485
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 3: top Washington journalist and then became a spokesman for Obama

486
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 3: and then a spokesman I think for Amazon that tracks. Yeah,

487
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: And so you know, to have a journalist at the

488
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: helm of this completely embarrassing capitulation is it doesn't speak

489
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 3: well to the kind of ability of kind of broadcast

490
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: journalists to stand up for their their their their craft

491
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: and their trade.

492
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and we've seen plenty of that coming from

493
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: other news outlets as well. In fact, it's not on

494
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 2: the show. But I don't know if you saw there

495
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: was some memo that went out from Bob Iger to

496
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: the ladies at the View that they needed to tone

497
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: down there.

498
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: That's right gl rhetoric.

499
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, broadcast journalism is are we broadcast journalists?

500
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: We're broadcasting but not really right?

501
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know, hope or not. I don't

502
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: want to be part of that club right now. We

503
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: can't broadcast journalists.

504
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 3: Peers Morgan, Yeah, speaking of how about that?

505
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: So you know, Peers really put his YouTube show on

506
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: the map with these raucous debates over Israel. I mean,

507
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: he's obviously debates all kinds of stuff, but I really

508
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: feel like those are the ones that brought a lot

509
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: of people to that program, and Pures has mostly taken

510
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 2: the side of Israel one hundred percent. You know, there

511
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: have been times where he's objected to this or that,

512
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: but broadly he's been very pro Israel. And he had

513
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: Meddi Hasen on his show recently and he said to Meddi,

514
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: you know what, basically you were right. I don't think

515
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: that we disagree anymore. He even uses the word genocide

516
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: in this context. Let's go ahead and take a listen

517
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: to a little bit of that.

518
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 10: You and I have talked about this war in Gaza

519
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 10: for ever since it started, this phase of the seventy

520
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 10: five year conflict, and I have resisted going as far

521
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 10: as you have done in your criticism of the Israeli government.

522
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 11: I resist no more.

523
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 10: I think we've reached common ground about what we view

524
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 10: is happening and has been happening through this period of

525
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 10: this blockade, which frankly is just starvation of the people there,

526
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 10: including so many innocent young women and children. And I

527
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 10: think that the incessant bombing and killing, and we don't

528
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 10: know how many civil have been killed, but it is

529
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 10: on a daily basis, it looks like hundreds of people

530
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 10: every day with no apparent attempt. It seems to me

531
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 10: to have any real plan for how this ends or

532
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 10: what happens when it ends, other than if you look

533
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 10: at what Smadridge has been saying, probably the most right

534
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 10: wing member of a very right wing government, he is

535
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 10: talking in a genocidal language about kicking all the Palestinians out.

536
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 10: So I think you and I have reached a place

537
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 10: in the last few weeks where we are in agreement.

538
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 10: But my question of youe Metti is how does this end?

539
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 4: What do you make of those comments Ryan and the

540
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: timing of them.

541
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 3: I think Pierce, because of his program, has had to

542
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: follow this in an incremental way. True, and because he

543
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: invites on people from all different walks away of all

544
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: different factors, all different perspectives, he has been exposed to

545
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 3: the reality of.

546
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 6: What's going on.

547
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: And I think anybody who's exposed to the reality of

548
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,719
Speaker 3: what's going on and isn't actively paid to take a

549
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: certain position.

550
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 4: To just be propagandist, yes, can.

551
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: Only conclude that this is a unique, a new crime

552
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: against humanity that's being carried out. And so.

553
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 6: He had to so he said it. I don't know

554
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 6: what did you make of it?

555
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I just think, as I said earlier,

556
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: something about the I think probably the months of starvation

557
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: and the images that are coming out of these emaciated babies,

558
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: and you know the risk of mass famine and mass

559
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: death event.

560
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: Because of this. I mean, how you just how do

561
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: you justify that?

562
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 6: Yeah?

563
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, it's just you can't say this

564
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: is oh targeted. We're going after amahas when you are

565
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: intentionally starving an entire population, and then when you see

566
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: these images of the rubble and then they're bombing the

567
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: rubble and with gruesome results, and there they just you know,

568
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: Smotrich and all the rot and I've just.

569
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: Gone mask off.

570
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: At this point, they've taken the layers of Hasbro Hasbara

571
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: out and said, I know, we want to ethnically cleanse them.

572
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: We are going with the Trump plan, and even this

573
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: pitty bit of aid that we might let in is

574
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: just to enable for the war crimes. If you're actually

575
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: grappling with that, how can you say other than this

576
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: is this is a horror, This is a atrocity, And

577
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: how can.

578
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 4: You feel other than when we look.

579
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: At this a decade down the road, or however long

580
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: it is down the road, people are going to have

581
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: to get asked very hard questions about what did you say,

582
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: what did you do? Where were you and so you know,

583
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: I think there's a very belated effort to try.

584
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 4: To end up on the right side of history.

585
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: And I will just say for myself, I hope there's

586
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: a real tracking of every journalist who enabled these crimes.

587
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: Every politician who enabled these crimes.

588
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: Every propagandist, every poster like, I think it is critical

589
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: that we look back and understand who justified these atrocities

590
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: and enabled these atrocities, and funded these atrocities, and provide

591
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: a diplomatic cover for these atrocities. I think that's going

592
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 2: to be absolutely essential. And so yeah, I'm listen. I

593
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: don't want to like, I'm glad to hear Peers say it.

594
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: It's extremely related, and I do think that there's a

595
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: sense of like, oh shit, I better get on the

596
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 2: right side of history for him, for some of these

597
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: world leaders that are coming out and starting to make

598
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 2: some noises as well.

599
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 6: Right, if you're behind mccron, it's taken you a while.

600
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

601
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: I appreciated Mehdi's response, which he said where he says, look,

602
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: I wish I had been wrong, right. No, I wish

603
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 3: that because in October November of twenty twenty three, the

604
00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: most wild, vulgar assessment of what is isels approach was

605
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: and was going to be turned out to almost underestimate

606
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 3: what it was right. And there's no there's no there's

607
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 3: no satisfaction in being right about that at all.

608
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: That's right. Well, if you looked into.

609
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: Better to have been wrong, and to have you know,

610
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: tens of thousands of people still alive and millions of

611
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 3: people still in their homes and a path toward peace

612
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: and co existence, that's right.

613
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 6: Instead we have this.

614
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: We have horror and the cold comfort of yeah, I

615
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: guess we were right.

616
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 8: Yeah.

617
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 4: I mean, if you listen to.

618
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: The most maximalist voices on actual brief or if you

619
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: went and talked to you know, Daniel Owiss or some

620
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: of these other settlers right who or you know Smoke

621
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: Trich and.

622
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 4: A lot of that.

623
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 2: I mean, there were people in Israel right away who

624
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: were saying what their plans were.

625
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: They've been saying that a long time, and they don't

626
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: always get to get the reins of power and that.

627
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: To actually enact it.

628
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: But if you would listen to them and taken that

629
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: seriously from the beginning, then you would have had a

630
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 2: much more accurate understanding versus the spin and the oh

631
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: we're dropping leaflets and oh, here's my presentation of how

632
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 2: there's actually tunnels under this hospital, and oh, that wasn't

633
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: even us that bombed the hospital. We would never bomb

634
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: a hospital. It's almost quaint to go back and think

635
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: about some of these things that were debated at the

636
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: time and how we were to Oh, they would never,

637
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: they would never do the most moral army on the planet.

638
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: And now they don't even bother to really justify, you know,

639
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: it's just so out.

640
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: Now they're saying, yeah, we're doing it, and it's good.

641
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're getting away and the world has let

642
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 4: us do it. That's what smoocher said.

643
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, public Enemy number one has become miss Rachel.

644
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 4: That's right.

645
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 6: She was the subject of this really bizarre New York.

646
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: Times New York Times article. Yeah, in a moment, she

647
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: has not back down at all. And so I think

648
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 3: we have a recent clip that we should posted a

649
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 3: video with a double amputeam Rahaf, Let's roll that.

650
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 4: Let's go back to sleep, Rahaf. We're so tired.

651
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 12: See the bunny sleeping too.

652
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 4: It's near the moon.

653
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 12: Shall we wake them?

654
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 8: Mabel married to They're so still?

655
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 9: Are they in?

656
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 11: Make up?

657
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 9: Soon?

658
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 11: Make up?

659
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 12: Little Bunnies Skip, Little Bunnies skip ski skip skip Little Bunniest,

660
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 12: Bunniest get.

661
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 4: This skip skip skip that stuff.

662
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 12: Let's hop again, hap Little bunnies half hop Hop Hop

663
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 12: Little Bunnies half hop hop hop little bunnies half hap

664
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 12: hap hap hop this stuff.

665
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 13: Yeah.

666
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 3: The strangest element of this New York Times piece on

667
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 3: her and I don't even I don't I'd like to

668
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 3: do some reporting on this, trying to figure out how

669
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 3: this even got into the piece. Is there forwarding of

670
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 3: complaints by what they called an advocacy group, Anti Stop

671
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 3: Anti Semitism. It's not an anti it's not an advocacy group.

672
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 3: It's like one unhinged.

673
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 4: Person troll yeah, who.

674
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 3: Posts mostly anonymous nonsense and accused her of effectively being

675
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 3: funded to support Hamas, which.

676
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 6: That's what trolls can do.

677
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 3: Like the Internet is filled with URLs that you can

678
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: buy and you can make claims. It's very crazy for

679
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: the New York Times to then take this and then

680
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 3: report it as something that advocacy groups are saying when

681
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: it's not, like again, it's not AVAC group, it's just

682
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: it's a nut, and then confront her with it and

683
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: have her respond to this claim of whether or not

684
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: she's being funded to support Hamas. And one of the

685
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 3: pieces of evidence they forward from this Anti Stop Anti

686
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 3: Semitism troll account is that for every one post about

687
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 3: an Israeli child.

688
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 6: She's put up ten posts about a child in Gaza.

689
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 3: It's like, well, that's wildly disproportionate in favor of Israel,

690
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 3: considering that they're eighteen thousand plus children who've been killed, right,

691
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: and it's it's not ten to one, right, And.

692
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: It's not to mention children like Rahaf who are surviving.

693
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 2: She's alive and thank god was well. I have of

694
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 2: trouble talking about this. It was medically evacuated. Her brothers

695
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: are still in Gaza, her father is still in Gaza.

696
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 6: You know.

697
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: Miss Rachel talked about this with Mehdi like she's a

698
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: double amputee. I mean, like I said, thank god, she

699
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 2: was medically evacuated. She's getting the care that she needs.

700
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, how and the idea that the only way

701
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: you could care about that and want to highlight that

702
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: is if you're being paid by Hamas, Like it's the

703
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: height of insanity of inhumanity to be so disconnected from

704
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: human emotions that you think the only reason someone might

705
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 2: care about an adorable double imputee like Rahaf is because

706
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: they're being paid by Hamas.

707
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 4: Like it's just the same.

708
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: There was another quote in that article towards the bottom

709
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 3: that was quite wild. A person named Stacy Hackner, a

710
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 3: teacher at a London Shader, said, quote, Miss Rachel seems

711
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 3: to be someone who is really really good hearted, but

712
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: in the context of everything that's going on, she says

713
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 3: I care about all children, but really she's talking about

714
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: the children of Gaza. That has left a lot of

715
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: Jewish parents feeling quite isolated, which is I think what's

716
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: so startling about that quote is that I believe it

717
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 3: is representing her authentic feeling.

718
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 6: She is genuinely.

719
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 3: Hurt that Miss Rachel is saying I care about all

720
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 3: children and is talking about the children of Gaza. That is,

721
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: she feels that as as painful and offensive, right, And

722
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 3: where do you go from there?

723
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 6: Like, your only accusation against.

724
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 3: Her is that she says I care about all children,

725
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: but really she's talking about the children of Gaza, and

726
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: that that and it's just understood that there's something wrong

727
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 3: with that if you're talking about the children of Gaza,

728
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: there's something.

729
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 6: Wrong with that.

730
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: That they don't count as children, that they should be

731
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: kept separate. Apart that if you're talking about the children

732
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: of Gaza, you don't really.

733
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: Care about it represents a view from a just startlingly

734
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: dark place.

735
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So well, let's let's go

736
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: ahead and transition to this wild scene that played out

737
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 2: in the White House yesterday when the President of South.

738
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 4: Africa came to visit.

739
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 2: South African President Ramafosa was in DC yesterday and the

740
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 2: context here, you know, is that the US the Trump

741
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: administration to shut down all refugee admissions. It's except for

742
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 2: white farmers that they claim are facing persecution and even

743
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: genocide in South Africa. So this meeting quickly turned contentious

744
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: as President Trump basically ambushed him with this whole multimedia

745
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: presentation of his allegations against what his government is doing

746
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: in his own country of South Africa. Also kind of

747
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: comes on the heels of President's Trump trip to the

748
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: Middle East, where he said, We're not going to go

749
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: around the world lecturing.

750
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 4: People about their human rights of viuses, so we do

751
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 4: it from here. Yeah, we'll just do it right here

752
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 4: when you come to visit us.

753
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 2: So in any case, let me show you a little

754
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: bit of this, and we are going to have a

755
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 2: guest join us in a minute to break down some of.

756
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 4: The claims that are made here.

757
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 6: And what actually that's a mean. Reality is it's means tested.

758
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: If you have a certain amount of money, then we

759
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 3: will not care about your human rights.

760
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 4: Well, that actually comes up in this exchange at one point.

761
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: We'll play you that in a minute where the President

762
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: of South Africa says, wil, I'm sorry, I don't have

763
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: a four hundred million dollars plane for you, basically saying

764
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't have sufficient funds for you know,

765
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 2: to really get on your good side here. In any case,

766
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and take a listen to a little

767
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: bit of how this went down.

768
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 14: It will take President Trump listening to the voices of

769
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 14: South Africa, some of whom are his good friends, like

770
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 14: those who are here when we have talks between us

771
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 14: on the quiet a quiet table. It will take President

772
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 14: Trump to listen to them. I'm not going to be

773
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 14: repeating what I've been saying. I would say if there

774
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 14: was Africana farmer genocide, I can bet you these three

775
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 14: gentlemen would not be here, including my Minister of Agriculture,

776
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 14: he would not be with me.

777
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 5: But you're surprised that I say we have none of quite,

778
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 5: we have thousands of stories talking about it. Show me

779
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 5: we have documentaries. We have news stories.

780
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 14: Today even in the Parliament. And they're a small minor

781
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 14: which is allowed to exist in terms of our constitution.

782
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 5: But you do allow them to take land?

783
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 13: No, no, no, no, do allow them to take land.

784
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 14: Nobody can take.

785
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 13: Where they take the land, they kill the white farmer.

786
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 13: And when they kill the white farmer, nothing happens to them.

787
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 13: There is nothing happens. There is criminality in our country.

788
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 13: People who do get killed, unfortunately through criminal activity are

789
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 13: not only a white, majority of them are black. And

790
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 13: we are now farmers. The farmers are not black. I

791
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 13: don't say that's good or bad, but the farmers are

792
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 13: not black.

793
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: So what the President is trying to say there Ryan

794
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 2: is we do have a really significant problem with violence,

795
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: which is true. There are tens of thousands of bookers

796
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: in South Africa every year, but if you look at

797
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: the statistics, I mean, it's disproportionately actually the poor, which

798
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: tends to be black South Africans, who are affected. But

799
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: there is no indication that white farmers in particular are

800
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 2: are more subject to violence than other groups in a

801
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: nation that is again unfortunately beset by high level levels

802
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 2: of violence RNNE.

803
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean, there is never racially charged violence,

804
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 3: and I think people here in the United States might

805
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 3: have a people on the right might have a better

806
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 3: time understanding this if they contextualize it in the in

807
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: the within the United States. So in South Africa, there

808
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: are definitely cases where black South Africans have killed white

809
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 3: South African farmers and have used racial language when they've

810
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: done so, like that has happened. Yeah, no, there's no

811
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 3: question about it, with some of their playing witnesses like

812
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: these core cases that that has happened. Here in the

813
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: United States, there have been many cases of white people

814
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 3: who have killed black people and have used racially charged language. Also,

815
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 3: the reverse people can argue that what the numbers are,

816
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: it has happened, but you wouldn't Nobody would say that

817
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: white genocide or black genocide is going on here in

818
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: the United States just because you can find those examples.

819
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 6: So you have to look at it holistically.

820
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 3: So that's what I would argue to people on the

821
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 3: right who have been convinced by seeing some examples of

822
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 3: of racial violence and have then gone from there to oh,

823
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 3: this is genocide.

824
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you think Trump has become obsessed with

825
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: this particular thing?

826
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 4: I mean, there's the obvious. There's a few things that

827
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 4: are obvious.

828
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 2: Number one, Elon Musk being so probable and not just Elon,

829
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 2: David Sachs and some others who are close with the

830
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 2: administration are.

831
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 6: Also there's tons of Peter teel right.

832
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 2: Peter Tile also South African exactly. So I mean that

833
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 2: seems significant because in the first administration we did not

834
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: see this same focus. There's that this is a fixation

835
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: with white nationalists. You know, you can see Steven Miller

836
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: being really into this kind of thing. This, you know,

837
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: I've seen all kinds of you know, commentary on Twitter

838
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 2: and et cetera. The other piece is that, you know,

839
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 2: South Africa has been one of the leading opponents of

840
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: Israel's genocide in Gaza.

841
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 4: In fact, one of the White House.

842
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: You know, one of the things that they put out

843
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 2: even explained that that was a piece of why they

844
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: were upset with South Africa. So it's also sort of

845
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: one of these like up is down left as right

846
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: situations where the very country that is standing strongest against

847
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 2: genocide in the context of you know, Israel and Gaza

848
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: is now being accused of committing genocide, you know, which

849
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 2: is you know, frankly a fairly preposterous claim.

850
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: You also see some lurid arguments on the right that

851
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 3: this that this is what happens if DEI goes on unchecked.

852
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they've roped it into their whole dee.

853
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,479
Speaker 2: I mean, this is in the whole sphere of people

854
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: who long for the days of Rhodesia and who want

855
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 2: to use the breakdown of you know, the high levels

856
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: of violence in South Africa also to broadly smear black

857
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 2: people is unable to govern. I mean that's you know,

858
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 2: that's where this whole argument leads it to as well. So,

859
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's there's a whole host of

860
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: reasons why Trump has probably decided that this is something

861
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: that he is very interested in, and I think he

862
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: also just loves It's kind of a troll, is kind

863
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: of a distractions. It's that sort of thing as well,

864
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: to make everybody get upset and talk about it, and

865
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: the you know, outrageous nature of saying that this particular

866
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: group is more you know, beset by violence or under

867
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: threat than you know, people who helped us our troops

868
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan now than the Taliban's back in power, people

869
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: from other conflicts around the world is also, you know,

870
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: just utterly absurd, which is part of why he likes

871
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 2: it because it upsets people like us or of liberal

872
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: commentariat on TV or whatever so much.

873
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 3: Right, and so far, there's been what dozens of white

874
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,399
Speaker 3: South Africans let in under this program. Yes, and it's

875
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: basically open to every white South African for the most part. Yeah,

876
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: and there are many many, what's the population hundreds many,

877
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of millions of white South Africans A

878
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 3: lot so for you know, point zero zero, zero whatever

879
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 3: percent to take.

880
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 4: It up is not very four point five million according.

881
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: To white South African Yeah, and fifty to sixty have

882
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 3: taken him up on this offer. It's not it's not

883
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: a very strong argument for them feeling like they're facing

884
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 3: imminent threat of genocide.

885
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 4: Yes, that is a that is a good point as well.

886
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: Let me play you one more clip before we bring

887
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: in our guests, where the President of South Africa, anticipating

888
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: that something like this was going to unfold, brought with

889
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: him first, like you know, a bunch of white guys

890
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: that are in his cab, even some Gulf some of

891
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: the white South African golfers. There are a number of

892
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: them who are you know, very high level in PGA tour,

893
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 2: et cetera, thinking like okay, it loves them.

894
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, this has got to be the way to get

895
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 4: in good with Trump.

896
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 2: And there's a moment here too that I referenced earlier

897
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 2: where He's says straight to Trump's face like a sorry,

898
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: I didn't have a plane to give you, indicating like

899
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: maybe it'd be treated a little different if I had

900
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 2: some more gifts than I.

901
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 6: Would be pony up in extreme Maybe yeah, maybe.

902
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 8: Maybe, just maybe.

903
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 4: So let's take a listen to a little bit of

904
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 4: how that went down.

905
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 15: Dependent well, white after honor refugees here do you explain

906
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,439
Speaker 15: to America and to whisup Burby as well from White

907
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 15: afri Hounor's here when other refugees like at Dans thats

908
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 15: Wayland's Asians have all had their attap of status removes.

909
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 5: Well, this is a group NBC that is truly fake news.

910
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 5: They ask a lot of questions in a very pointed way.

911
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 5: They're that questions they statements today have many friends from

912
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 5: South Africa, but many of those friends are.

913
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 13: They can't go back.

914
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 8: I have elon is from South Africa.

915
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 5: I don't want to get Elon involved.

916
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 14: That's all I have to do. Get him into another thing,

917
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 14: but to be from South Africa.

918
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 13: This is what he learned wanted. He actually came here

919
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 13: on a different subject, sending rockets to Mars.

920
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 6: Okay, he likes that better.

921
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 13: He likes that subject better.

922
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 16: We have too many deaths. But it's across the board.

923
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 16: It's not only white farmer, it's across the board. We

924
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 16: need technological help. We need starlink at every little police station.

925
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 14: I'm sorry, I don't have a plane to give you.

926
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 5: I wish you did.

927
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 15: I would tell if.

928
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 5: Your country offered the United States Air Force applan, I

929
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 5: would take it.

930
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 14: Okay, But coming back to this issue, which I really

931
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 14: would like us to talk about and talk about it

932
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 14: very calmly. We were taught by Nurse and Mandela that

933
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 14: whenever they're our problems, people need to sit down around

934
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 14: the table and talk about it. And this is precisely

935
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 14: what we would also like to talk about, including of

936
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 14: course trade matters, investment matters, so the issues that concern

937
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 14: you as the United States, and does your own death.

938
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 2: So he also introduces there another piece of the puzzle

939
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: of why there might be this particular upset with South

940
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: Africa because Elon wants them to take up Starlink, and

941
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 2: there's a provision that would require I think Starlink to

942
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 2: be owned thirty percent by black South Africans through some

943
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 2: sub subsidiary in South Africa.

944
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 4: I think those are the details, guys, you have to

945
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 4: go and double check.

946
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: But in any case, he has felt aggrieved that he

947
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: hasn't been able to get South Africa taken to take

948
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: up Starlink, and so that gets a mention there too

949
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: of you know, one of the South Africans, it's like,

950
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: we really want starlink, you know, is is that going

951
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 2: to make you happy with us? Because other countries around

952
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 2: the world, that's been the way that they've greased the

953
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 2: skids with this administration, and.

954
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 3: Starlink would legitimately be good for South Africa, right because

955
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 3: like they've had such a hard time building up the

956
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,479
Speaker 3: telecommunications infrastructure that now you like, you know what, skip

957
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 3: all that stuff. Let's just jump to the star link era,

958
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 3: that the satellite era. But right, they also have rules

959
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 3: around local ownership and I guess you know it's causing.

960
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: Problems apparently, yes, apparently, And then just too on the

961
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 2: nose that the President of South Ava says, well, I'm sorry,

962
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 2: I don't have a plane, and Trump's like, well, if

963
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: you hadn't want to take.

964
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 6: It, yeah, come back when you have a plane.

965
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 4: There you go.

966
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: The word for that is, you know, bribery is one,

967
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: but tribute is the other. Like for tens of thousands

968
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 3: of years, that is how emperors have operated. You pay

969
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 3: tribute to the emperor and you don't necessarily get anything

970
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: for it. But if you don't pay your tribute, everybody

971
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 3: knows then you're not going to get treated as well

972
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 3: by the benevolent emperor.

973
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 4: No matter how many golfers you bring.

974
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 3: Apparently, although the golfers are tribute also in a.

975
00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 2: Way, yeah, they are tribute to Trump's particular es A right,

976
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: Let's go ahad and get to our guests who can

977
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 2: break down some of the more specifics.

978
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 8: Here.

979
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 3: We are now joined by bulel Wal Mabasa, who is

980
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 3: a land reform attorney in South Africa. And I was

981
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 3: just saying that I reached out to around midnight her

982
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: time last night and asked her if she could be

983
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: on this morning and if she was asleep, go ahead

984
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 3: and reach back out to us in the morning. She

985
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 3: said on a day like today, There's no way I'm sleeping.

986
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: So what has it been like in South Africa? How

987
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 3: are South Africans kind of responding to this unbelievable scene

988
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 3: out of the Oval Office.

989
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 17: So interestingly, the responses have been varied from you know, commentators, intellectuals,

990
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 17: and academics on one end of this spectrum, praising the

991
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 17: South African team, saying that they've maintained the moral high ground,

992
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 17: that our President Suramaposa maintained composure and that he did

993
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 17: not descend into the kind kind of you know, comical

994
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 17: playing out of the you know, the the the meeting,

995
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 17: and others you know, kind of a little bit more

996
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 17: in the middle saying well, it was kind of you know,

997
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 17: President Trump being President Trump, which was you know, kind

998
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 17: of a zero out obtain for for for the US

999
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 17: team and maybe about you know, sixty out of one

1000
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 17: hundred for the youth for the South African team.

1001
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 8: And the other extreme end, which is.

1002
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 17: Kind of this weaponization or weaponizing Nelson Mandela's call for

1003
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 17: reconciliation as if there is a trade off for not

1004
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 17: transforming the country and this kind of a begging ball

1005
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 17: syndrome reminiscent of the colonial era. You know, we are

1006
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 17: the poor African country and we need this rich superpower

1007
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 17: and with this small economy.

1008
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 8: And we need you to rescue us, almost like a uh,

1009
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 8: you know.

1010
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 17: Messiah, you know, to state you know, metaphorically, almost like

1011
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 17: a savior coming down. So there actually has been interesting

1012
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 17: from a political lens, but obviously, you know, not being

1013
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 17: a political commentator in any way, my focus was on

1014
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 17: the land confiscation issue and how it was addressed, and

1015
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 17: that's where yeah, and I think that's what we're going

1016
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 17: to talk about.

1017
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 4: Yes, of course.

1018
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: And I wanted to get I wanted to play some

1019
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 2: of the specific claims that were made by the President,

1020
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 2: who I said earlier prepared this whole multimedia presentation for

1021
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: this meeting, and and get you to address some of

1022
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 2: the specific claims that were made. This is a five guys,

1023
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 2: if we could go ahead and play that.

1024
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 5: This is very bad.

1025
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 13: These are These are verial sides right here, burial sides

1026
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 13: over a thousand of white farmers. And those cars are

1027
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 13: lined up to pay love on a Sunday morning. Each

1028
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 13: one of those white things you see is across and

1029
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 13: there's approximately a thousand of them. They're all white farmers.

1030
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 13: The family of white farmers, and those cars aren't driving

1031
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 13: their stuff.

1032
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 5: There to pay respects to their family member who's killed.

1033
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 14: Have they told you where that is, mister president? You know,

1034
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 14: I'd like to know where that is. Of course, this

1035
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 14: I've never seen.

1036
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 2: In addition, there were news articles that were printed out

1037
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 2: about deaths. I know one of them actually had nothing

1038
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 2: to do with South Africa. It was from another African

1039
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: nation and you know, was completely unrelated. As you referenced

1040
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: before we played earlier, there were claims made about land exproporation,

1041
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 2: and I know that that is your particular specialty. So

1042
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 2: could you sort through some of these these claims that

1043
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 2: were made and help us understand what's really going on here?

1044
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 17: Yes, so the visuals around the white process, there isn't

1045
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 17: actually that that wasn't a burial site. And you know,

1046
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 17: with the kind of US machinery, you know, with the

1047
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 17: intelligence agencies in the US being the most powerful, it

1048
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 17: boggles the mind that such an untruth could land up

1049
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 17: in the Oval Office and be presented as truth.

1050
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 8: That was a protest.

1051
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 17: In actual fact, those aren't burial sides, and there isn't

1052
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 17: in fact a burial site of just exclusively farm victims

1053
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 17: or victims of farm murders that exists in South Africa,

1054
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 17: and in so far as the land confiscation issue, I

1055
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 17: think what what needed to be put through in that

1056
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 17: meeting is that President Ramaposa himself was part and parcel

1057
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 17: of the negotiations that took place just before South Africa

1058
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 17: became a democracy, and he was part and parcel of

1059
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 17: a team that formulated our constitution. It was the National

1060
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 17: Party government at the time and the ANC incoming government.

1061
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 17: They negotiated into a constitution. How so Africa was going

1062
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 17: to deal with its land issues. South Africa's constitution recognizes

1063
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 17: that there was a law which was promulgated in nineteen thirteen,

1064
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 17: the Natives Land Act, that actually confiscated land from black

1065
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 17: people into at the hands of the white minority. Black

1066
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 17: people were dispossessed of eighty percent of the land that

1067
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 17: was in the hands of the seven percent of the population.

1068
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 8: And if there's a.

1069
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 17: Historical context that grounds what our reform policy is. We

1070
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 17: have in our constitution section twenty five that protects property rights,

1071
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 17: that says that no one may be expropriated of property

1072
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 17: unless in terms of the law of general application, So

1073
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 17: in terms of the rule of law. But in the

1074
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 17: same section it also says that we take into account

1075
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 17: the past historical in justices that have taken place in

1076
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 17: our country and therefore within that constitution it invites the state.

1077
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 17: In fact, it's not even any invitation, said direct obligation

1078
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 17: to the state to say, the state massive or reasonable

1079
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 17: legislative measures to ensure that we have land reform in

1080
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 17: a form of land restitution, land registribution and security of

1081
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 17: land tenure.

1082
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 8: So that should have been the very first.

1083
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 17: Kind of key message to say our land reform project

1084
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 17: is grounded within the rule of law.

1085
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 8: It's part and parcel constitution.

1086
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 17: We've got a very rich judiciary where all of this

1087
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 17: is happening every single day.

1088
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 8: We've got a restitution program in South Africa, for.

1089
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 17: Example, where people can lay claim to land that they've

1090
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 17: lost previously and they get either provided with the land

1091
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 17: or compensation, and this has this is probably the biggest

1092
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 17: restitution program in the world. And land transfers are happening

1093
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 17: is fully without violence. Then they are grounded within the

1094
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 17: rule of law. So I think that's probably the very

1095
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 17: key first message that South Africa could have opened up

1096
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 17: the conversation about, and that there isn't this land confiscation

1097
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 17: is not you know, it's not happening. Certainly it's not

1098
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 17: sanctioned by law. But I think also most important is

1099
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 17: to say expropriation that we follow in South Africa is

1100
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 17: very similar to the laws of eminent domain in America.

1101
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 17: In fact, our laws of expropriation borrow from the UK

1102
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 17: law the laws in Germany. It's no simple and you know,

1103
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 17: I know in the UK it's called compulsory purchase. And

1104
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 17: so our law, which is granted on Roman Dutch law,

1105
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 17: English law of expropriation is no different. Even in America

1106
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 17: there are instances, for example, where expropriation does take place

1107
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 17: for the public interest, for environmental purposes and so forth,

1108
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 17: and this is what South Africa is doing. The only

1109
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 17: difference that South Africa has, if you had to compare

1110
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 17: it with the other developed nations, is that we are

1111
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 17: also using our expropriation laws in order to make land

1112
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 17: available in line with our constitutional imperatives of transformative justice.

1113
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 3: So this to me feels like the crux of the issue,

1114
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 3: like everything else that's going on in the Oval Office

1115
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 3: there the fake thousand you know, white cross or the

1116
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 3: White Cross is representing a fake one thousand dead people.

1117
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 6: All the talks about white.

1118
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 3: Genocide, it's all a distraction because what is what they

1119
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 3: really want to talk about is this underlying central conflict

1120
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 3: around around land reform, and that is a real conflict.

1121
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 8: That's a conflict.

1122
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's a real one.

1123
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1124
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 6: So let's so how does it? How does it work?

1125
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 3: So this is what you do?

1126
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 6: You know, you work in this in this field.

1127
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 3: Who who is getting expropriated and who is the land

1128
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 3: being redistributed to as part of that process? Because I

1129
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:05,919
Speaker 3: really do feel like that we should just talk about

1130
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 3: it because this is what people are really actually genuinely

1131
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 3: upset about, but they don't want to come out and

1132
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 3: say it.

1133
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 17: Yes, South Africa's land policy is granted on three notions.

1134
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 17: The first is called land restitution, which means that people

1135
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 17: who can prove that they were or their descendants were

1136
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 17: dispossessed of land without compensation that it happened after nineteen thirteen,

1137
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 17: those people were able to go to the government and

1138
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 17: make land claims and if those claims are proven to

1139
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 17: be valid, those people then could either be given the

1140
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 17: land that they lost and sometimes if the land that

1141
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 17: the lost is no longer viable for human occupation, or

1142
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 17: it's been built up, or it's not a shopping center.

1143
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 17: They're given alternative land, or they're given compensation.

1144
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 8: That's one arm of it.

1145
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 17: That is the restitution program that I spoke about, that

1146
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 17: it started in nineteen ninety four. Yes, it's been slow paced,

1147
01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 17: but that's the land one of the land form a pillars.

1148
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 17: The second pillar is land redistribution, now land redistribution. It's

1149
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 17: also embedded in our constitution. It says the states must

1150
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,919
Speaker 17: take legislative measures to ensure that people who need the land,

1151
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 17: who need to have access to land, are given the land. Again,

1152
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 17: the state has been slow that haven't provided enough resources

1153
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 17: in order to ensure that the land is redistributed. I

1154
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 17: think so far we're only speaking about ten percent of

1155
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 17: the land that has been redistributed. There's been very poor

1156
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 17: physical support in order to see progress there.

1157
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 8: The third leg of this is the.

1158
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 17: Land tenure of black people. More than sixty percent of

1159
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 17: black people don't have securit tenure.

1160
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 8: What that means is that they.

1161
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 17: Don't have formal rights, property rights. They live in informal settlements.

1162
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 17: And this is what the land reform projects of South

1163
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 17: Africa is trying to correct when it comes to itspropriation.

1164
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 17: Expropriation is actually very simply color blind. Expropriation is just

1165
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 17: the tool that the state uses when it needs to

1166
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 17: use land for a public purpose or a public interest.

1167
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 17: The best example we can give about expropriation that's been

1168
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 17: actually implemented is the how trained. We've got the how train,

1169
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 17: which is that it's bit trained that links people in

1170
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 17: public transport system those people were expropriated, those people would

1171
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 17: have been black, White, Indian and so forth. It's actually

1172
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 17: a very color blind. It's a state tool that is

1173
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 17: used worldwide, and so the outcry around itspropriation without compensation

1174
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 17: is a little bit it's it's hype. It's it's hyperbole

1175
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 17: because even in that legislation it tells you under what

1176
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 17: circumstances there could be nol compensation.

1177
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 8: And this way, there's.

1178
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 17: Abandoned buildings, you cannot check the owner, where the land

1179
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 17: is unsafe, there's a safety risk.

1180
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 8: So it's only.

1181
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 17: Within quite determined, you know, easily determinable circumstances where that

1182
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 17: could happen. But in the main, we don't have an

1183
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 17: expropriation law in South Africa that promotes expropriation as a

1184
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 17: wholesale concept. In fact, when I sat as part of

1185
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 17: the Presidential Advisory Panel, we found that the States, the

1186
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 17: Democratic state, has actually not even used the expropriation powers,

1187
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 17: although it's sanctioned in the constitution. So all of this

1188
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 17: is a rather perplexing situation where actually the government has

1189
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 17: been slow to implement the constitutional obligations for land reform

1190
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 17: and yet to find this kind of it's almost an

1191
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 17: untruth that has kind of built legs that that that

1192
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 17: that we saw play out in the Oval House, so

1193
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 17: in the Oval Office.

1194
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 8: And so what we actually now find is that.

1195
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 17: The land reform question is almost metaphorical for the need

1196
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 17: to transform South africa society. At the heart of transformation,

1197
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 17: whether we're talking about you know, labor, land, uh, you know,

1198
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 17: business and so forth, is the need to transform as

1199
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 17: society because we're still so Africa is the most unequal

1200
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 17: country in the world, skewed against the black majority. We

1201
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 17: still have the economy in the hands of majority of

1202
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 17: white people. We still have property rights landowners skewed in favor,

1203
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 17: held in white hands.

1204
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 8: And so it's kind of a machinery that you you kind.

1205
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 17: Of watch in disbelief because it couldn't prefer that from

1206
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 17: the truth on the ground.

1207
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 2: And lastly, I think the the other major question is

1208
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 2: that of violence that I know the President was saying that,

1209
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: you know, unfortunately there is a high level, high level

1210
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: of violence, but that violence is not disproportionately aimed at

1211
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 2: white people or white farmers. It it afflicts you know,

1212
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 2: people of all types within the country. Could you could

1213
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 2: you speak to to some of that and you know

1214
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 2: what what the number are, what the reality is, and

1215
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 2: what are some of the you know, potential sources of

1216
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: that violence.

1217
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 8: Crime is skewed highly.

1218
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 17: It's something that mainly affects poorer communities where there is

1219
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 17: lack of policing, the service delivery, where it is not

1220
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 17: as you know, good as you know, more the affluent.

1221
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 8: Parts of society.

1222
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 17: The victims of crime, and I don't have the statistics

1223
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 17: of hand, actually are poor black people. The majority of

1224
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 17: people in prisons are black men. And so the claim

1225
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 17: that you know, there's there's this targeting of a spirit

1226
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 17: of a minority group is not born by the facts

1227
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 17: or the evidence. And I think there was also too

1228
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 17: much said around the issues of violence and crime, which

1229
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 17: distorts the experience, the lived experience of South Africans across

1230
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 17: the racial lines. I think the South African societies progressed

1231
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 17: to such a you know, since Mandela became the president,

1232
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 17: the first first democratic president.

1233
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

1234
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 17: We have societies that are completely mixed. We live in

1235
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 17: suburbs that are Malteri racial. My children go to school

1236
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 17: in a Malti racial school. And our societies society as

1237
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:22,639
Speaker 17: a as A as A as A, as.

1238
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 8: A, you know, living in a black woman's body.

1239
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 17: I mean a law firm with a diverse you know,

1240
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 17: people from diverse backgrounds. We have black people now living

1241
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:40,480
Speaker 17: in suburbia, so we've got I think the the conversation

1242
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 17: focused on the issues of crime, which are vealid issues,

1243
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,560
Speaker 17: was the lost opportunity to sell the country that we

1244
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 17: know and love and we live in where we've actually

1245
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 17: and and maybe not completely, but we we are the

1246
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 17: lived example of the Rainbow nation that Nelson Mandelas spoke about.

1247
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 17: And yes, we do have issues to deal with, inequality, poverty,

1248
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 17: unemployment and not unique to South Africa. And yes unemployments

1249
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 17: that's high at thirty two percent. But I think that

1250
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 17: South Africa still remains a viable, colorful complex. But beautiful

1251
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 17: place to live, work and play, and I think it

1252
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 17: was unfortunate that there was this kind of ambush and

1253
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 17: concentration around violence.

1254
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 3: And Trump also last question for me. Trump also in

1255
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,600
Speaker 3: the meeting, played a clip of Julius Malema singing or

1256
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 3: chanting the rap song like kill the Boar? What's is Boar?

1257
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 3: White South African? That's a clip that Elon Musk has

1258
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 3: circulated many times. It's a prominent clip kind of on

1259
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 3: the right here in the United States. Can you talk,

1260
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 3: you just brieve about who is Mali? What does what

1261
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:03,959
Speaker 3: should people understand about.

1262
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 8: This cheerless Malemma actually.

1263
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 17: Comes from the A and C, which is the world

1264
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 17: It was the majority reading party up until the recent elections.

1265
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 17: He was then expelled. He was formed part of the

1266
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 17: youth wing. He was expelled from the A and C.

1267
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 17: He formed his own party, the Economic Freedom Front. I

1268
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:29,560
Speaker 17: think up until I could be inaccurate in terms of percentages,

1269
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 17: but his party, I think got seven percent of the

1270
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 17: vote national vote, although that's you know, it's in the minority.

1271
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 17: He does have quite a you know, his majority of

1272
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,560
Speaker 17: his membership is around the youth. But in terms of

1273
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 17: the song, the issue was dealt with by the courts

1274
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 17: from the High Court all the way to the Constitutional Court,

1275
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 17: and it was not found to be a hate speech.

1276
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 17: And there's a little bit of contextual background around that.

1277
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:01,520
Speaker 17: During that parted era, when the political prisons were exiled,

1278
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 17: whether force fully or voluntarily, the societies that remained behind

1279
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 17: made up a lot of these chants. There's hundreds and

1280
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 17: thousands of them that were kind of a yearning for

1281
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 17: you know, one day when Mandela's released, we're going to

1282
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 17: have a freedom back. And it's quite contextual, and the

1283
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 17: literal meaning then at the time was we're going to

1284
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 17: put up arms, We're going to revenge the white farmer

1285
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 17: or the boa, and it is not literal. And in fact,

1286
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 17: there was a court case that every forum launched, that

1287
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 17: was heard by the High Court, it went on appeal

1288
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 17: to other courts, and ultimately the highest quote of the

1289
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 17: land found that these songs and this song in particular,

1290
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 17: did not you know, it did not amount to hate speech.

1291
01:11:58,360 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 8: And I think the reason for that is that it

1292
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 8: was contextual.

1293
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 17: It was around the time no one sings that song

1294
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 17: and goes and kills, you know, a white farmer, and

1295
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 17: I still have songs that I was chance that.

1296
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 8: We grew up with. You know, some of it goes

1297
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 8: we miss you, Manela, where are you?

1298
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,640
Speaker 17: And in fact growing up in so it so there

1299
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 17: was a lot of that kind of mystery around where

1300
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 17: our political prisoners we're not we're going to get freedom.

1301
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 17: So there's a context to which those songs were played

1302
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 17: and there were chances, the chances, you know, the chants

1303
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 17: that were created. But our ultimate highest court in the

1304
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 17: land has opined on this to say that it doesn't

1305
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 17: form part of the of hate speach precisely because of

1306
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 17: the history and the context and in relation to j

1307
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 17: Les Malama, he's he's quite a noteworthy figure in our

1308
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 17: in our in our political landscape because he did form

1309
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:57,479
Speaker 17: part of the A and C, which was the ruling party.

1310
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 17: He was expelled from the the Youth Party, and his

1311
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 17: brand of I would say he is kind of, you know,

1312
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 17: regarded to be on the left of of of our

1313
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 17: political arena. But I think what's important to note as

1314
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 17: well is correct is pointed out in the meeting or

1315
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 17: in the yeah in the Oval offices that he enjoys

1316
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:26,560
Speaker 17: round about seven seven percent if not less, of the

1317
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 17: national of the national vote.

1318
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 3: Is the context changing, you know, that you said that

1319
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 3: the context made it so that people understood it not

1320
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:38,200
Speaker 3: to be literal. But in the context of now so

1321
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 3: many international right wing figures talking about the tension, the

1322
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 3: racial tensions in South Africa, has that overlaid a new

1323
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 3: context that is giving a new meaning. That means that

1324
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 3: I think might start beginning to.

1325
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 17: Depends on the lens in which you are seeing or

1326
01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:00,120
Speaker 17: perceiving things. If you are right wing, a person who

1327
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 17: legitimately believe that there's this genocide and there's this land confiscation.

1328
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 8: Then it plays into the hands of that.

1329
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 17: But if you are a South African kind of a

1330
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:16,640
Speaker 17: regular citizen, despite whichever kind of you know, racial or

1331
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 17: social class that should belong to, that it's not something

1332
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 17: that will have any form of weight in terms of

1333
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 17: behavior or even conduct to flow South Africans got it interesting.

1334
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for helping us understand some

1335
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 2: of these different pieces. We really appreciate you taking the

1336
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 2: time below wall.

1337
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 8: Thank you, it was great to chat to you, Sam.

1338
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 8: Thanks good bye.

1339
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,920
Speaker 2: Had a pretty significant market sell off yesterday and since

1340
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: I got my resident finance bro Ryan here.

1341
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 4: I thought we would go through.

1342
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 2: There was actually a pretty significant reason why there was

1343
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,679
Speaker 2: a sell off AUSTRALI let's go and put the numbers

1344
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: up on the screen here from CNN, the Dell thinks

1345
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 2: eight hundred points as bond market starts to freak out

1346
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 2: over Trump's tax bill. That was the analysis from CNN.

1347
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 2: And you can put the next piece up on the screen.

1348
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 2: You can see a little bit more of what was

1349
01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:15,639
Speaker 2: going on here. This is from this account.

1350
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 4: Do you know how to say this, Ryan? The Kobec

1351
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 4: letter is that how I don't know.

1352
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 3: I only ever see it. I don't hear people talk

1353
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 3: about it.

1354
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 2: In any case, they have this the beginning of the

1355
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 2: drop that happened at one pm, and they say, well,

1356
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 2: what actually happened was a week twenty year bond auction

1357
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 2: which sent US treasury yields soaring.

1358
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 4: So for those of us who.

1359
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 2: Aren't finance bros, Ryan, what effectively happened here is the

1360
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 2: government went to do treasury bond twenty year treasury bond auction.

1361
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 2: There was a very weak demand, meaning people didn't really

1362
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 2: weren't too psyched about buying the stat at this point.

1363
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:57,799
Speaker 2: It required a significant increase in the yield that was offered,

1364
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 2: so the price went down, the yield goes and that,

1365
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 2: you know, fit in with the pattern of Okay, we've

1366
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 2: got a world that's moving away from the dollar. We've

1367
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 2: got a world that is no longer fleeing to treasuries

1368
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 2: as safety. We have this giant bill that's about to pass.

1369
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 2: It's about to blow up the deficit by some roughly

1370
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 2: four trillion dollars more in service of giving, you know,

1371
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 2: tax cuts to a bunch of people who really don't

1372
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 2: particularly need a tax cut. And because of all of

1373
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 2: those factors, there was a significant reaction to the stock market.

1374
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 2: I just checked in with the markets which are open now,

1375
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 2: and they are down a bit this morning as well.

1376
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so this comes after Moody's downgraded US debt

1377
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 3: from the top to the just underneath it tip top

1378
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 3: of ratings. And the twenty year note, which is what

1379
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 3: they were auctioning off, is actually a bit of an anomaly.

1380
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 3: The US didn't sell them for many decades. Steve Manutchen

1381
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 3: brought them back. Usually we sell the big ones of

1382
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 3: the ten years and thirty in the thirty He's like,

1383
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 3: why not bring back the twenties. Everybody loves the twenties. Bizarrely,

1384
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:07,520
Speaker 3: you can get a higher yield.

1385
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 6: For the twenty than you can for the thirty.

1386
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 3: And that's which doesn't which doesn't make economic sense because

1387
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 3: if you're locking up your money for a longer time, you're.

1388
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 6: Supposed to get a higher yield.

1389
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 3: But because there are so many thirty year notes out there,

1390
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 3: they're much more liquid, so you can trade them more easily,

1391
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 3: and so as a result, you get this kind of

1392
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 3: anomalous situation where you have to you know, the US

1393
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 3: has to pay a higher yield for a shorter time period.

1394
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 6: In other words, you should get rid of the twenty years.

1395
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 3: Unless unless you can flood the market with them and

1396
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 3: create more liquidity, which eventually they could potentially get to.

1397
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 3: But so they had this auction and yeah, at first

1398
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 3: they're offering like a four you know, high fours on

1399
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 3: the on the interest rate, and there weren't enough people

1400
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,799
Speaker 3: lining up to buy them. And we don't know exactly

1401
01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:01,320
Speaker 3: how much of this is just as buyers saying, we

1402
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 3: don't trust the the market here on these bonds, because

1403
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 3: if you buy, if you buy the bond at this

1404
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 3: price and then bond prices collapse over the next few days,

1405
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 3: you're you know, then you're stuck holding that bag. If

1406
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 3: you're not planning on keeping them for twenty years, and

1407
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:17,680
Speaker 3: we don't know how much of it is related to,

1408
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 3: you know, geopolitics of Japan, Canada, China. Some of the

1409
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 3: usual biggest buyers of at these auctions saying few, Yeah,

1410
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 3: I mean what am I? Why am I going to

1411
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 3: come in here and make life easier for you when

1412
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 3: you're actively trying to make life worse for us?

1413
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,280
Speaker 4: Do you have a central banker who's ahead of Canada now?

1414
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 2: So you never know, you never know what kind of

1415
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 2: game's gonna be playing there, And we we do know

1416
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 2: the bond market has probably been the most powerful countervailing

1417
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 2: force against Trump's economic plans of you know, of all

1418
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 2: the various factors. You know, he himself admitted he walked

1419
01:18:56,160 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 2: it back, but he himself admitted that when the what

1420
01:18:58,439 --> 01:18:59,719
Speaker 2: did he say, the bond market.

1421
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 4: Started to yippy yippy, Yeah, they started.

1422
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 2: Getting yippie, is when he pulled back from the most

1423
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 2: maximalist tariff posture that he had originally had. And so

1424
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the broader context, is you already had.

1425
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 2: And I think the Ukraine warned the huge sanctions regime

1426
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:16,600
Speaker 2: we threw at Russia. I think, you know, contributed to

1427
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:18,680
Speaker 2: this as well. But you already had a world that

1428
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 2: was starting to move away from dollars reserve currency. Then

1429
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 2: you have Trump declare trade war on the entire world,

1430
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,839
Speaker 2: not just you know, China or some smaller subset of countries,

1431
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: the entire world in this very take this very belligerent

1432
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 2: stance towards you know, traditional allies like Japan and Canada

1433
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 2: and other places, and that has accelerated that move away.

1434
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 2: Part of what ultimately leads him to back off is

1435
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, usually when you have this

1436
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,920
Speaker 2: economic chaos and uncertainty, there's a quote unquote flight to

1437
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 2: safety and people buy up US government debt, and that

1438
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 2: wasn't happening, and that was what kind of freaked them

1439
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,959
Speaker 2: out and caused them to, look, we still have significant

1440
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,680
Speaker 2: tariffs that are on and they're still saying, hey, we're

1441
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:04,759
Speaker 2: going to go back in and impose more terrors whatever.

1442
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 2: But cause them to back off the most maximus posture

1443
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 2: that he originally.

1444
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 3: Had, and moodies and the interest rate moves have ripple

1445
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:16,680
Speaker 3: effects throughout the entire economy because if if you're you know,

1446
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 3: let's say you have corporate debt, and that corporate debt

1447
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 3: is collateralized by some you know, you know, treasuries held

1448
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 3: by the corporation or there's some other counterpart of your

1449
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 3: interplay with the with the treasuries, now they're no longer

1450
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 3: triple a that that means that the bonds underneath them,

1451
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 3: they lose a little bit of value as well, which

1452
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:43,400
Speaker 3: means all of it creates high, you know, higher interest

1453
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 3: rates because the bonds are less valuable, which then creates

1454
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 3: this this cycle, this vicious cycle where when the US

1455
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,600
Speaker 3: was just absolutely flooding the economy with money at a

1456
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 3: zero and there's basically a zero percent or less interest

1457
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:01,839
Speaker 3: rate going around, you couldn't put your money in bonds

1458
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 3: because you're getting zero percent return for it, right, So

1459
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,679
Speaker 3: you put it in this into equities in the stock market,

1460
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 3: and that pushed up the stock That pushed up the

1461
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,200
Speaker 3: stock market like crazy, pushed up bitcoin, pushed up all

1462
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 3: this other stuff.

1463
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,599
Speaker 6: I asked that bubbles, like housing as well.

1464
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 3: Now that you you're looking you're looking at the equity market,

1465
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 3: You're like, hmm, this seems way overvalued. I think this

1466
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 3: is going to crash because you know, Trump's still still

1467
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 3: headed for the cliff, just at a slightly like he

1468
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,160
Speaker 3: was going at the cliff one hundred and forty five percent.

1469
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 3: Right now he's going at the cliff at thirty percent,

1470
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 3: right He's still headed for the cliff. Yeah, And you're like, oh, well,

1471
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 3: now I can get you know, five point one percent

1472
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 3: interest rate for a twenty year note and four something

1473
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:46,759
Speaker 3: for ten you know. So then you sell your equities

1474
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 3: and then you move into these these bonds, which eventually

1475
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 3: should push the bond prices up and the yelds down,

1476
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 3: but it it pulls more money out of the stock

1477
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 3: market at the same time. Now, if and if people

1478
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 3: are deep trying to decouple from the dollar, then then

1479
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 3: you can have all you can have it all sinking

1480
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 3: at the same time. You can have the market going

1481
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 3: down and the bond mark going down at the same time,

1482
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 3: which is unusual but might represent the new path forward

1483
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 3: because you've got people like Jamie Diamond and you can

1484
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 3: we can.

1485
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 4: Put up this b three guys a week economic outlook.

1486
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 3: Jamie Diamond and others keep saying, guys, like, things are

1487
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 3: not good. Things are not as good as the market

1488
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 3: is saying they are right now. Like the market, you know,

1489
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 3: freaked out in April and crashed and then it climbed

1490
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 3: mostly all the way back and then you know, now

1491
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 3: maybe it's on its way back down. But you've got

1492
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:46,640
Speaker 3: Diamond and a whole bunch of others saying things are

1493
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 3: bad in the United States, like we're headed in a

1494
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:56,799
Speaker 3: not great direction. What is what on earth is propping

1495
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 3: this up at this point? And then that's where the

1496
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 3: bill comes. And so they passed it, like what very

1497
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 3: early in the morning, Yes, yeah.

1498
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,840
Speaker 2: I think early this morning they passed this, the big

1499
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,640
Speaker 2: beautiful bill that provides lots of money for the police.

1500
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:14,560
Speaker 3: Takes they put up before for this, Yeah, lots of

1501
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:15,280
Speaker 3: tax cuts for.

1502
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: The rich, and you know, at the expense of Medicaid

1503
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 2: and SNAP and other programs to benefit middle class and

1504
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 2: working class and lower income people. And this is Jason Furman,

1505
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:33,719
Speaker 2: who's was a White House economists under Obama. But he says,

1506
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure, I'm not sure I've ever seen such a

1507
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,960
Speaker 2: brutal distributional analysis from CBO. This contrast the Medicaid and

1508
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 2: SNAP cuts for the lowest dea style with the tax

1509
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 2: cuts for the top death sile and so you can

1510
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 2: see the way that you know, the cuts are coming

1511
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 2: from the people who can least support the cuts and

1512
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,639
Speaker 2: the benefits are going to the people who at least

1513
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:52,440
Speaker 2: need the benefits.

1514
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 6: But you know, it's a wild chart.

1515
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't come in and it doesn't come anywhere close

1516
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 2: enough to like balance out because the tax cuts that

1517
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 2: are being flooded for the wealthy, the extension of the

1518
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 2: Tax Cuts and Jobs Act effectively is a four trillion

1519
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:07,760
Speaker 2: dollar expenditure.

1520
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1521
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 2: So they're making some custom Medicaid and to Snap in

1522
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 2: particular that are going to be really bad for millions

1523
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 2: of Americans, but it still doesn't even come close to

1524
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 2: making up for the large s that is being showered

1525
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 2: on the wealthiest among us.

1526
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like a giant heist of money from

1527
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 3: poor and working class people to rich people. And you

1528
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 3: wouldn't think ideologically that Wall Street would be opposed to that, Right,

1529
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 3: they're not, but they're like, WHOA, I don't know, I

1530
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,600
Speaker 3: don't think we can handle this like this this is

1531
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 3: a bit much.

1532
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1533
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 2: Well it's also I mean, it's the final failure and

1534
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:47,000
Speaker 2: humiliation for DOGE, which again I've never thought was actually

1535
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 2: about cost cutting or efficiency, but that was what they claimed,

1536
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 2: and they did not actually save any money. They probably

1537
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:57,479
Speaker 2: cost the government money, especially with the cuts the IRS,

1538
01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:58,759
Speaker 2: which means that you can't.

1539
01:24:58,520 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 4: Go after rich tax sheets.

1540
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 2: So there were no deficit. There was no deficit reduction

1541
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 2: that was achieved there. I mean, what the Wall streeterers

1542
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 2: would like is for them to take more of an

1543
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:12,200
Speaker 2: acts to the you know, Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid, etc.

1544
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,320
Speaker 4: It's what they would really like to see.

1545
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm not one to be a big

1546
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 2: leg deficit hawk and like wring my hands about the debt.

1547
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 2: You know, I think for a long time those concerns

1548
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 2: have been really overblown. However, we may be entering a

1549
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 2: new era in global economics and in US economics where

1550
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 2: the reason we've been able to spend so much without

1551
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,640
Speaker 2: really much care or concern is because we've been the

1552
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 2: global reserve currency and because we have benefit from what

1553
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 2: is described as the exorbitant privilege of being the center

1554
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 2: of the economic world here. And if that is changing,

1555
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:49,440
Speaker 2: then we're going to have to have a different relationship

1556
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:51,880
Speaker 2: towards our debt and our deficit than we have in

1557
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 2: the past.

1558
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:56,640
Speaker 3: And so far we still are because you know, the

1559
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:00,719
Speaker 3: world doesn't really trust anybody else, right, but you are seeing,

1560
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 3: you know, moves towards people trading in their own currency,

1561
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:06,720
Speaker 3: which which then you know, right now we have this

1562
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,000
Speaker 3: like you're in this glorious position where you know, if

1563
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 3: two countries are trading with each other, rather than trading

1564
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:14,639
Speaker 3: in their own currency, they move it through a dollar.

1565
01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 6: The dollar system. They don't, they don't have to do that.

1566
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,639
Speaker 3: You know, there's there's all sorts of kind of value

1567
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,519
Speaker 3: in the liquidity and the efficiency of our capital markets

1568
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 3: that that keep that keeps us there.

1569
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 6: But as but as as that.

1570
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 3: Erodes, yeah, then then then we become like other countries.

1571
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 3: I have to like pay for things, right and it

1572
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 3: wouldn't you know, people say like, oh, it's just you

1573
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 3: look at the budget numbers. It's just absolutely impossible. We can't,

1574
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 3: we can't do it. I mean it's true, you can't.

1575
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 3: You can't balance the budget if you want to cut

1576
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 3: taxes on the rich, right and you're trying to balance

1577
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 3: it by finding waste in medicaid, right like, and you

1578
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 3: could actually go after Medicare and medicaid and get a

1579
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,639
Speaker 3: significant amount of fraud out of that, out of that system,

1580
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,400
Speaker 3: but you're still squeez you know, you were talking about

1581
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:05,720
Speaker 3: hundreds of billions. There's trillions in like over a ten

1582
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 3: year period, just just by tweaking the higher marginal tax

1583
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 3: rates on the on the super rich.

1584
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:17,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey a look at the Pentagon. But instead in

1585
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 2: this budget they're increasing Pentagon spending. You know, the budget

1586
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 2: really does, in my opinion, reflect, you know, the priorities

1587
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 2: of Trump two point zero, which is it's a huge

1588
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 2: boon to the oligarchy and huge boon to the police

1589
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 2: state at the expense of working class people, with a

1590
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 2: few flourishes thrown in, like no tax on tips or

1591
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 2: whatever that they can point to and posture as a

1592
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 2: pro working class party even as they effectuate one of

1593
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:43,799
Speaker 2: the largest upward transfers of wealth in history.

1594
01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1595
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 3: Also the billions of dollars that people spend around the country,

1596
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:53,719
Speaker 3: around the world coming to this country, buying real estate

1597
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:58,599
Speaker 3: and through tourism and going to universities here. Yeah, it's

1598
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 3: also a significant can you know, prop up of our

1599
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 3: of the dollar economy. If we lose that, then we're

1600
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 3: in huge trouble. Yeah, because we don't make enough stuff

1601
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:12,920
Speaker 3: to We don't have any other ideas, like that's that's

1602
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 3: our thing.

1603
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 6: People want to live here.

1604
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 3: It's a nice place to live and we're very welcoming

1605
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,759
Speaker 3: up until recently two foreigners.

1606
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's right, that's right. On the other hand,

1607
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 2: let's put this up on the screen. There were some

1608
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 2: decent jobless numbers that came in. Jobless claims dropped a

1609
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:33,560
Speaker 2: bit last week. This was a little bit below the

1610
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 2: initial estimates of the previous week's unrevised tally of two

1611
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 2: hundred twenty nine thousand, so they dropped it two hundred

1612
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 2: twenty seven thousand. So you know, you don't see it

1613
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 2: like a huge spike in jobless claims or anything like

1614
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 2: that showing up yet. And then on the other handless

1615
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 2: put the nice piece up on the screen. You do

1616
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 2: have some you know, some indications with retail you previously

1617
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 2: had Walmart, you know, this whole back and forth with Trump,

1618
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 2: but basically saying like, look, we're gonna have to raise

1619
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:58,800
Speaker 2: our prices.

1620
01:28:58,720 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 4: Because of these tariffs.

1621
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 2: Now, of course, say we'd love to raise prices for

1622
01:29:01,479 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 2: any number of reasons, and plenty of retailers will take

1623
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,400
Speaker 2: advantage of the terrorist to prices even beyond what they

1624
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 2: have to. But also when you're talking about a thirty

1625
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 2: percent tariff on China, that is going to require some

1626
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 2: price hikes in order to you know, continue to run

1627
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:16,360
Speaker 2: a profitable business.

1628
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 4: This was interesting to me. Ryan leave us up on

1629
01:29:18,160 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 4: the screen.

1630
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 2: Target on Wednesday cut it's full year sales outlook, as

1631
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 2: executives said, weaker discretionary spending, consumer uncertainty about tariffs, and

1632
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:29,639
Speaker 2: backlash to the company's rollback of key diversity equity inclusion

1633
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 2: efforts hurt its business. So they went away from woke

1634
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 2: and went broke apparently.

1635
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean the backlash against that was massive and

1636
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 3: a lot of people that were boycotting Target as a

1637
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:42,960
Speaker 3: result of.

1638
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 6: This Wow and It's showing up.

1639
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 4: So they got on both sides.

1640
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:48,400
Speaker 2: They got the boycott for the wokeness and then they

1641
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:50,799
Speaker 2: got the boycott for the anti wokeness.

1642
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:51,639
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1643
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 2: Interesting, So one indication there of things that maybe to come.

1644
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:02,760
Speaker 2: Let's go and move on to the latest news with

1645
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 2: regard to deportations, we have new ice tactics. Practically every

1646
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:09,639
Speaker 2: day we can put these images up on the screen.

1647
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 2: They're now camping out outside of asylum hearings. This is

1648
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:17,760
Speaker 2: D zero guys camping out outside of asylum hearings. And

1649
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 2: then you know, the minute if a case is dismissed

1650
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 2: or whatever, they just you know, I don't know why

1651
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 2: these like the masking of these agents of the state

1652
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:28,759
Speaker 2: is deeply disturbing to be and that is a common

1653
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 2: trend now. Actually, Ken Clippenstein did some reporting on exactly this,

1654
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 2: and even in photos they're blurring their face or they're

1655
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:39,200
Speaker 2: turning around backwards so you can't see their faces, et cetera.

1656
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 2: But this woman was asked how long were you here for?

1657
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 2: She said a year. Then they say, were you guys

1658
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 2: given any type of process? She says, yes, a process

1659
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 2: of asylum. And then she says, I had my first

1660
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 2: court hearing, and she goes on, they dismissed my case.

1661
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 2: So her case is dismissed, and then she's just swept

1662
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,479
Speaker 2: right up by ice. Let's put the next piece up

1663
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 2: on the screen. This was a significant, significant result in

1664
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,600
Speaker 2: the court system. Here a judge has said directly that

1665
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 2: the Trump administration is violating their court order with these

1666
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:19,719
Speaker 2: deportation this deportation flight to South Sudan.

1667
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:21,080
Speaker 4: Go ahead and read you this.

1668
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 2: This says after a deportation flight with eight migrants left

1669
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 2: Texas reportedly intended for South Sudan this week, of federal

1670
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,200
Speaker 2: judge on Wednesday rule the Trump administration had.

1671
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 4: Violated a previous order.

1672
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:32,600
Speaker 2: US District Court Judge Brian Murphy in Massachusetts said it

1673
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:34,800
Speaker 2: at hearing the administration had failed to adhere to an

1674
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 2: injunction he issued in March that prevented people from being

1675
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:41,560
Speaker 2: sent to countries other than their own without opportunities to

1676
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 2: raise fears of persecution or torture. And South Sudan not

1677
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:48,679
Speaker 2: in a good state right now. United State Department warning

1678
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 2: for Americans to avoid South Sudan. I think our diplomats

1679
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:54,800
Speaker 2: have been pulled because of safety concerns. And this is

1680
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 2: where it appears the government didn't really want to give

1681
01:31:57,320 --> 01:32:00,639
Speaker 2: up this information. But it appears that these migrants were sent.

1682
01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 2: And the judge even went ryan so far as to say,

1683
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 2: the department's actions are unquestionably violative of this court's order.

1684
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:14,400
Speaker 2: So no ambiguity and raise the possibility even of outright contempt.

1685
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what contempt is for. There is an

1686
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 3: order in place, and they clearly had contempt for it.

1687
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 3: Their argument is that these are terrible, uh, you know,

1688
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 3: murderers and other criminals. You know, if if you can't,

1689
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:32,559
Speaker 3: why can't they figure out a way to do this legally?

1690
01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:35,559
Speaker 3: If it's true, if you've got a murderer here who's

1691
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 3: here illegally, you can you can figure out a way

1692
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 3: to deport them. If you can't go to Congress and say,

1693
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 3: look this, we've got to murder here illegally, and you

1694
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 3: know these judges aren't allowing us.

1695
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 6: We need better laws on the books. Nobody is going

1696
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 6: to object to that.

1697
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 2: It would not be any sort of a First of all,

1698
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:56,760
Speaker 2: murders should serve their sentence before they, you know, are

1699
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 2: released into whatever country you're talking about. But second of all,

1700
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 2: there's literally not a single politician who would object to

1701
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 2: a murder who's here illegal, illegally getting deported somewhere. And

1702
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 2: it would not be a difficult process to play out.

1703
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 2: But it's you asked the question, why don't they do

1704
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,120
Speaker 2: this the lawful way? I mean that is part of the.

1705
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:22,679
Speaker 4: Point, right. They want to test the bounds. They want

1706
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 4: to outright defy the.

1707
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 2: Constitution and these judicial orders that have been issued and

1708
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:31,439
Speaker 2: see how far they can go and see what they

1709
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:33,560
Speaker 2: can get away with. I mean, that is a that

1710
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 2: is a key part of their strategy here. The other

1711
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:38,600
Speaker 2: thing that's in this budget that just passed is a

1712
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 2: huge increase in funding for Ice. That makes it, i think,

1713
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 2: the largest funded federal law enforcement agency in history. So

1714
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:49,760
Speaker 2: you know those are you're getting the police state, you're

1715
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 2: getting the you know, the military expansion, and you're getting

1716
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 2: the tax cuts for the rich. So so far, they

1717
01:33:56,120 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 2: have not been able to achieve deportation numbers that approach

1718
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:03,680
Speaker 2: that are even like commiserate with what Obama Deporter in chief, was.

1719
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 4: Able to accomplish.

1720
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:07,320
Speaker 2: They're trying to secure the resources to be able to

1721
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 2: do that, but in the meantime, they want these displays

1722
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 2: of lawlessness and cruelty to substitute for that, and then

1723
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 2: to encourage people to self deport. That's effectively what substituting

1724
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:22,080
Speaker 2: for you know, actually falling process or god forbid, going

1725
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 2: through Congress and actually you know, passing laws that help

1726
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 2: you accomplish the outcomes that you want, which, as we've

1727
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 2: discussed before, I think Democrats would have absolutely gone along

1728
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 2: with at the beginning of this administration. Now I think

1729
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,200
Speaker 2: it would be a bit different, and I don't I.

1730
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 3: Don't know what numbers we're going to have available, but

1731
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,559
Speaker 3: it's you know, it's probably going to work to some degree.

1732
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:43,479
Speaker 3: You know, I think you know, within immorant communities. They

1733
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:50,479
Speaker 3: have successfully struck staple fear. Yes, they're definitely afraid and

1734
01:34:50,600 --> 01:34:54,240
Speaker 3: some and some are going back. At the same time

1735
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 3: they're they are trying to arrest and detain people as

1736
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 3: there as they're leaving, which is counterproductive to the whole idea.

1737
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 3: Like that, this and this, this is a this is

1738
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 3: a bizarre trend where people are suing for the right

1739
01:35:12,160 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 3: to be able to leave freely, and then DHS is

1740
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:18,160
Speaker 3: going to court trying to say no, no, we want

1741
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 3: to be able to detain you and then deport you,

1742
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 3: detain you and definitely and then deport you at some

1743
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:23,320
Speaker 3: point down down the line.

1744
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 4: I hadn't seen those cases, which is.

1745
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:30,320
Speaker 3: Which is a real problem with the private detention facility, right,

1746
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,080
Speaker 3: because they profit the profit, right, and now they're going

1747
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 3: to have this massive budget which is going to meet

1748
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,240
Speaker 3: you create a lot more profit. And there's no there

1749
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:42,760
Speaker 3: isn't any money in somebody just buying a ticket and

1750
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 3: going home, right, Like the money is in hiring people

1751
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:48,960
Speaker 3: to go catch them, lock them up and then guard

1752
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 3: them indefinitely.

1753
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1754
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 4: That's very dark, but very good point.

1755
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,160
Speaker 2: Let's put D two up on the screen because this

1756
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 2: really gets the heart too of what's going on here.

1757
01:35:57,439 --> 01:36:01,480
Speaker 2: So there was a memorandum that came out from the administration,

1758
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 2: from the intel community that said like, basically, okay, we're

1759
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 2: not being invaded by trend To Aragua and specifically debunking

1760
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 2: the alleged connection between the Venezuelan government and this gang.

1761
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 2: And this is a problem for this administration because that

1762
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 2: is the pretext for which which they used to invoke

1763
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:23,720
Speaker 2: the Alien Enemies Act. You know, this is supposed to

1764
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 2: be used in wartime or in times of an invasion.

1765
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:29,760
Speaker 2: So they said, we're being invaded by trend To Ragua. Preposterous,

1766
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 2: and the Venezuelan government is directing this invasion. So they

1767
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 2: fired the people who drafted the original report, and then

1768
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:41,840
Speaker 2: they did this rewrite from Joe Kent, and he has

1769
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:47,200
Speaker 2: now been caught, you know, directing them to manipulate the

1770
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:48,599
Speaker 2: outcome of this report.

1771
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:50,719
Speaker 4: So let me read you a little bit from this article.

1772
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 2: They say, new emails document how he top eight to

1773
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 2: Tulci Gabbert, the Director of National Intelligence, ordered analysts to

1774
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 2: edit an assessment with the hope of insulating President Trump

1775
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:02,560
Speaker 2: and gathered from being attacked for the administration's claim that

1776
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 2: Venezuela's government controls a criminal gang.

1777
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:05,559
Speaker 4: Quote.

1778
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:08,800
Speaker 2: We need to do some rewriting and more analytic work

1779
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 2: so this document is not used against the DNI, that's

1780
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:14,720
Speaker 2: Tulsi or Potus, Joe Kent, the chief of staff to

1781
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:16,560
Speaker 2: Miss Gabbard, wrote in an email to a group of

1782
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,880
Speaker 2: intelligence officials on April third, using shorthand for Miss Gabard's

1783
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:22,719
Speaker 2: position in the President of the United States. Times reported

1784
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:25,400
Speaker 2: last week that Joe Kent had pushed analysts to redo

1785
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:29,120
Speaker 2: that assessment date of February twenty sixth on that relationship

1786
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:31,960
Speaker 2: between Venezuela's government and the gang trender Arragua, after it

1787
01:37:32,040 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 2: came to light that the assessment contradicted a subsequent claim

1788
01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:37,920
Speaker 2: by mister Trump. Disclosure of the price sise language of

1789
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 2: mister Kent's emails has added to the emerging picture of

1790
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:45,320
Speaker 2: a politicized intervention. But remarkably, even with them like cooking

1791
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 2: the results of this assessment, they still weren't able to

1792
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:53,599
Speaker 2: totally validate, Like they couldn't go far enough to actually

1793
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,960
Speaker 2: validate the claims that were made in the Invocation of

1794
01:37:57,000 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 2: the Alien Enemies Act. So even with them doing their

1795
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:03,439
Speaker 2: absolute best to insist we are invaded by trender Uragua,

1796
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:06,360
Speaker 2: and it is the Venezuelan government that is directing the

1797
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:10,040
Speaker 2: you know, whatever is going on in Aurora, Colorado, apartment

1798
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:13,800
Speaker 2: buility or whatever. Even they were not able to fully

1799
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:15,680
Speaker 2: make those claims right.

1800
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:18,719
Speaker 3: And also if their argument is there is an ongoing invasion,

1801
01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:19,880
Speaker 3: the invasion's over.

1802
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:21,240
Speaker 6: So that's a problem too.

1803
01:38:21,720 --> 01:38:24,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Emily has made that point that she she wanted

1804
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 2: to ask administration about. Okay, well you've you know, the

1805
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:32,080
Speaker 2: border crossings are genuinely significantly down. So is are we

1806
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:34,880
Speaker 2: being invaded or are we not being invaded? In the

1807
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:36,040
Speaker 2: problem solved because you.

1808
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 3: Can't have guess you could argue we've been invaded and

1809
01:38:38,040 --> 01:38:39,400
Speaker 3: you have to find all the invaders.

1810
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 4: I guess that's what they would say. Yeah.

1811
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:45,799
Speaker 3: But the other problem they have with this invasion rhetoric

1812
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 3: is that so much of it was done legally within

1813
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:55,479
Speaker 3: the properly within the immigration system. What's his name, Andre,

1814
01:38:56,479 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 3: the makeup dude, you know, Yeah, he like made a

1815
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:03,040
Speaker 3: TVP want toppointment, had an asylum case open, yep, was here,

1816
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:06,120
Speaker 3: like was here legally. That's not how an invasion unfolds.

1817
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 3: Invasions you just crash.

1818
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:09,880
Speaker 4: You're not going through.

1819
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:10,720
Speaker 6: Castle wall one.

1820
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:13,840
Speaker 4: App Yeah, we're waiting for your appointment at the border, and.

1821
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 3: You can put up this next this next alment D three.

1822
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 3: He was not alone, you know, more than fifty at

1823
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:25,400
Speaker 3: least of the Venezuelans who are who were sent to

1824
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:29,800
Speaker 3: El Salvador, according to this investigation and analysis by Cato,

1825
01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:33,719
Speaker 3: right wing libertarian institute, we're.

1826
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 2: Here legally so and even beyond that, in this analysis,

1827
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:42,679
Speaker 2: he was actually only able to ascertain the legal status

1828
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:44,440
Speaker 2: of ninety of the individuals.

1829
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:47,960
Speaker 4: And out of that ninety fifty of them right came

1830
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 4: here legally.

1831
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:52,280
Speaker 2: So actually a clear majority of the numbers that he

1832
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 2: was able to ascertain any information about came here legally.

1833
01:39:56,600 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 2: So you know, it's not a scientific sample, et cetera.

1834
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:01,639
Speaker 3: But if you expectin that out to fifty, how many

1835
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:02,920
Speaker 3: do they send, Yeah.

1836
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 4: Roughly q fifty a ton, Yeah, roughly two fifty.

1837
01:40:05,320 --> 01:40:08,160
Speaker 2: So if you extrapolate that out, you know, it's very

1838
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:10,920
Speaker 2: easy to believe that actually a majority of the people

1839
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:15,599
Speaker 2: who were sent to a foreign dungeon potentially for life,

1840
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:19,960
Speaker 2: came here legally and committed We already know they a

1841
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:21,320
Speaker 2: majority committed no crimes.

1842
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:24,800
Speaker 3: And as Ben Franklin would say, even if it was

1843
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:27,679
Speaker 3: just one, it's wrong, that's right, and that's.

1844
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 6: Why you have to do process.

1845
01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:32,719
Speaker 3: So what did he say, I'd rather one hundred guilty

1846
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:36,160
Speaker 3: men go free than one innocent man go to prison,

1847
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 3: and that and that's the founding spirit of our Bill

1848
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 3: of rights and our entire kind of rule of law system. Yeah,

1849
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:45,839
Speaker 3: that that it is better to protect the innocent.

1850
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:46,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1851
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 2: I think the view from the you know, the extremists

1852
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 2: in the administration and you know, which is quite prevalent

1853
01:40:55,160 --> 01:41:01,520
Speaker 2: in Republican influencers, is that the Biden immigrants policy was illegitimate.

1854
01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 2: So even if you came here, you know, as a

1855
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 2: venezuela and got temporary protected status doesn't count. You're still

1856
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 2: in their view, you're still illegal because they didn't they

1857
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:16,320
Speaker 2: didn't like that procedure, and so it's illegitimate. This came

1858
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:21,439
Speaker 2: up during the Haitian situation in Springfield, Ohio that you know,

1859
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 2: the vast majority of them were there legally through that

1860
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:29,000
Speaker 2: Trump temporary protected status program or had been here. Actually

1861
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:30,640
Speaker 2: a number of them have been here even longer, and

1862
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 2: you know, had over time moved to Ohio. But that

1863
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:38,360
Speaker 2: was the view was that even though they had availed

1864
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:41,840
Speaker 2: themselves of legal channels. Those channels were legitimate because they

1865
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:42,439
Speaker 2: opposed them.

1866
01:41:42,720 --> 01:41:42,840
Speaker 6: Right.

1867
01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:48,000
Speaker 3: So and so Rick Grennell, special Envoyd to Trump in

1868
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:53,080
Speaker 3: the State Department, returned yesterday from Venezuela with a with

1869
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:58,640
Speaker 3: an American who had been held there for a significant

1870
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:01,320
Speaker 3: amount of time. Grannell had has been this is this

1871
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 3: is not the first American that Grenell has gotten out

1872
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 3: of detention in Venezuela and maybe some other countries as well.

1873
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

1874
01:42:09,400 --> 01:42:14,680
Speaker 3: He's also been in active negotiations with the with the

1875
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:19,040
Speaker 3: government there that I guess we technically don't recognize, but clearly,

1876
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:22,479
Speaker 3: clearly we do. He did an interview yesterday on his

1877
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 3: on his way back with Steve Bannon saying that the

1878
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 3: US is not out trying to enact regime change all

1879
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:31,479
Speaker 3: over the world. Then this was in the context of

1880
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 3: the Maduro government in Venezuela, not.

1881
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:37,559
Speaker 4: All over the world, just in South Africa, just.

1882
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 3: Just in South Africa. And so, uh, we put this

1883
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:45,720
Speaker 3: next element of monsuscoop from the Miami Herald. This is

1884
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 3: D four usked secretly negotiating deal to let Venezuela sell

1885
01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:55,400
Speaker 3: more oil if it takes more deportees. And this is

1886
01:42:55,520 --> 01:43:00,879
Speaker 3: actually where diplomacy does play a role in our migration policy.

1887
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:04,519
Speaker 3: Like let's let's imagine that that you know that this

1888
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:08,679
Speaker 3: is phrased in oil terms, because that's how we understand

1889
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:12,719
Speaker 3: our diplomacy. No, China and Russia have been making overtures

1890
01:43:12,760 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 3: towards Venezuela. Their their oil industry is practically shut down

1891
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:21,120
Speaker 3: because of because of sanctions, and and uh, the the

1892
01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 3: amount of the disrepair that it is, it has fallen into,

1893
01:43:23,680 --> 01:43:27,679
Speaker 3: it's it's it's not the easiest oil to refine apparently,

1894
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:30,679
Speaker 3: and so it requires you know, significant investment and upkeep,

1895
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 3: and that's been impossible under sanctions. And so the idea

1896
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 3: here is that the US would move towards normalizing relations

1897
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:41,280
Speaker 3: with Venezuela. In exchange, we'd get a bunch of oil.

1898
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:45,799
Speaker 3: And then when you have normalized relations with the country,

1899
01:43:47,120 --> 01:43:52,599
Speaker 3: your immigration policy works more fluidly. Like if, for instance, uh,

1900
01:43:53,120 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 3: there's a French person here who overstays their visa and

1901
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:00,360
Speaker 3: they get then they get caught and they get a

1902
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:04,639
Speaker 3: deportation order. France takes them back. We're allies with France,

1903
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:07,640
Speaker 3: we have normal relations with them. We don't with Venezuela,

1904
01:44:08,280 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 3: which is why and we have we don't have normal

1905
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:13,840
Speaker 3: relations with so many countries around the world that we

1906
01:44:13,960 --> 01:44:18,560
Speaker 3: are bullying, you know, because it's just what, just what

1907
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:21,000
Speaker 3: we do, and so then we have to then, know,

1908
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:23,400
Speaker 3: we don't have to. But then they choose to send

1909
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:25,800
Speaker 3: them to El Salvador or South Sudan, or they call

1910
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:29,080
Speaker 3: up Libya or and whoever whoever claims to represent Libya

1911
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 3: at this point, can you take them? Hey, Somaliland, you

1912
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 3: want to be recognized as a country. Okay, well you

1913
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 3: have to take a bunch of people from Bolivia because

1914
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:38,280
Speaker 3: we can't send them to Bolivia because we tried to

1915
01:44:38,360 --> 01:44:40,360
Speaker 3: coop their government and we don't have good relations with them.

1916
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:44,759
Speaker 3: So if you want a rational immigration policy, it would require,

1917
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:49,479
Speaker 3: you know, normal diplomatic relations with other countries, not not

1918
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:54,439
Speaker 3: being a thug in your region. So I actually wouldn't

1919
01:44:55,880 --> 01:44:58,439
Speaker 3: you know, jump down jump on Grannell for that, Like,

1920
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:01,880
Speaker 3: if Grannell can greate normal relations with Venezuela, then yes,

1921
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 3: if there are people here who are getting deported that

1922
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:05,360
Speaker 3: as well, would then accept them.

1923
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:11,439
Speaker 2: I'm sort of this though, because Venezuela has accepted deportation flights.

1924
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:13,120
Speaker 2: But perhaps it was on more of like an ad

1925
01:45:13,160 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 2: hoc basis, because this is one of the key things

1926
01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:19,440
Speaker 2: that was key details of the you know, the Venezuelan's

1927
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 2: being shipped to El Salvador instead. Apparently, prior to that

1928
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:27,080
Speaker 2: flight to El Salvador, Venezuela had said yes, we'll take

1929
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, deportees from the US, and there have been

1930
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:35,080
Speaker 2: subsequently flights that have left and brought deportees to Venezuela.

1931
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:37,160
Speaker 2: But like I said, perhaps maybe that was more ad

1932
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:39,920
Speaker 2: hoc and this is to be a more durable, long

1933
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:43,240
Speaker 2: lasting relationship. It's also funny because apparently Meduoro they have

1934
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:45,200
Speaker 2: an analyst here who says he wants a deal similar

1935
01:45:45,240 --> 01:45:46,439
Speaker 2: to the one granted to Syria.

1936
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:48,840
Speaker 4: He's looking for the Yeah. It's like, okay, well you

1937
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:50,120
Speaker 4: could do it with them, you.

1938
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:50,760
Speaker 6: Know, why not.

1939
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:52,120
Speaker 4: I'm a former al Qaeda guy.

1940
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:55,880
Speaker 3: Surely I'm not not that bad, right he literally nobody

1941
01:45:56,000 --> 01:45:58,160
Speaker 3: who could be as bad as the al Kaya guy,

1942
01:45:58,360 --> 01:46:01,559
Speaker 3: I mean, the former Alkada guy. Like I think, if

1943
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:03,519
Speaker 3: we can get along strong pass it's a very good point.

1944
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:05,519
Speaker 6: If you can get along with him, you can get

1945
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 6: along with Maduro.

1946
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:10,000
Speaker 3: I interviewed the Venezuela Foreign minister maybe like a year ago,

1947
01:46:10,040 --> 01:46:13,080
Speaker 3: and he brought up, and he mentioned deportations as a

1948
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:15,760
Speaker 3: place to where there could be room for negotiations if

1949
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:19,599
Speaker 3: in a world where there was normalized relations. But yet

1950
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:23,320
Speaker 3: they certainly will take some and certainly if they're political opponents, Ben.

1951
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 6: Azuell is happy to take them.

1952
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:26,160
Speaker 3: Yes, they said that you and then beat them up

1953
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 3: and put them in there in jails, right, the US position.

1954
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:33,120
Speaker 2: According to this, other analysts said they argue Maduro can

1955
01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:34,639
Speaker 2: become a pro American dictator.

1956
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:38,240
Speaker 3: So, I mean it would not he would not be

1957
01:46:38,320 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 3: the first American, you know, pro American dictator.

1958
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure to fit them mold. So anyway, interesting, We'll

1959
01:46:45,320 --> 01:46:47,200
Speaker 2: see what develops there. But I mean, it would make

1960
01:46:47,280 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 2: sense that they're using those deportation flights as leverage to

1961
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 2: try to roll back some of those sections and you know,

1962
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 2: secure oil sales on a more permanent basis. Yeah, all right,

1963
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 2: let's get to this AI. This is pretty interesting. We

1964
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 2: try to follow this closely. Put this up on the screen.

1965
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 2: We've got a new collab between open ai and Joni Ive,

1966
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:13,320
Speaker 2: who is the designer of the iPhone, in a six

1967
01:47:13,400 --> 01:47:18,519
Speaker 2: point five billion dollar deal to create AI devices. Let

1968
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:20,360
Speaker 2: me read you a little bit of this because I'm

1969
01:47:20,400 --> 01:47:21,800
Speaker 2: just gonna be honest with you. I have a hard

1970
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 2: time wrapping my head around what this tech is actually

1971
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 2: going to be. But they say they want to move

1972
01:47:27,240 --> 01:47:30,800
Speaker 2: away effectively from the smartphone era to this type of

1973
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 2: tech that's almost like ambient, Like it's like your glasses

1974
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 2: or your head.

1975
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:36,479
Speaker 4: But I don't really know anyway, they say in a

1976
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:37,120
Speaker 4: joint interview.

1977
01:47:37,200 --> 01:47:39,840
Speaker 2: Mister Ive and mister Allman declined to say what such

1978
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 2: devices could look like, how they might work, but they

1979
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 2: said they hope to share details next year. Mister Ive

1980
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:47,479
Speaker 2: fifty eight fram the ambitions as galactic, with the aim

1981
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:50,719
Speaker 2: of creating amazing products that elevate humanity. We've been waiting

1982
01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 2: for the next big thing for twenty years, mister Altman added.

1983
01:47:53,160 --> 01:47:55,599
Speaker 2: We want to bring people something beyond the legacy products

1984
01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:57,880
Speaker 2: we've been using for so long. Mister Altman and mister

1985
01:47:57,920 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 2: Iver are effectively looking beyond an era of smart phones,

1986
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:02,599
Speaker 2: which have been people's signature personal device since the iPhone

1987
01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 2: debuted in two thousand and seven.

1988
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:05,160
Speaker 4: If the two men.

1989
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:07,320
Speaker 2: Succeed, and it's a very big if they could spur

1990
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:10,479
Speaker 2: what is known as ambient computing, rather than typing and

1991
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:15,560
Speaker 2: taking photographs on smartphones, future devices like pendants or glasses

1992
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:19,679
Speaker 2: that use AI could process the world in real time,

1993
01:48:20,160 --> 01:48:24,240
Speaker 2: fielding questions and analyzing images and sounds in seamless ways.

1994
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 2: They put on this like funny hype video, like relatively

1995
01:48:28,479 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 2: lengthy hype video for this partnership. We pulled a couple

1996
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:33,400
Speaker 2: pieces to share with you. Let's take a listen to

1997
01:48:33,439 --> 01:48:35,160
Speaker 2: a little bit of what Sam Oltman had to say.

1998
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:40,320
Speaker 18: I think we have the opportunity here to kind of

1999
01:48:40,360 --> 01:48:43,679
Speaker 18: completely reimagine what it means to use a computer.

2000
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 11: Sam is a rare visionary. He shoulders incredible responsibility, but

2001
01:48:57,280 --> 01:49:02,880
Speaker 11: his curiosity, his humility remain utterly inspiring.

2002
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:10,800
Speaker 18: Johnny is the deepest thinker of anyone I've ever met.

2003
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,559
Speaker 18: What that leads him to be able to come up

2004
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:16,840
Speaker 18: with is unmatched.

2005
01:49:17,400 --> 01:49:18,960
Speaker 19: I was just thinking, what a privilege it is to

2006
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:22,599
Speaker 19: really connect with somebody new and it's it hasn't happened

2007
01:49:22,600 --> 01:49:27,479
Speaker 19: in a long time. And the reason I think that

2008
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 19: it happened is we had both a very strong shared vision.

2009
01:49:33,080 --> 01:49:34,920
Speaker 19: We maybe didn't know exactly where we were going to go,

2010
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:38,040
Speaker 19: but like the direction of the like the force vector,

2011
01:49:38,080 --> 01:49:41,400
Speaker 19: felt clear. And then this like deeply shared sense of

2012
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:44,400
Speaker 19: values about what technology should be when technology has been

2013
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:45,920
Speaker 19: really good, when it's gone wrong.

2014
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:47,680
Speaker 11: I mean that that was in a way one of

2015
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:50,000
Speaker 11: the basis I think for one of the reasons Sam

2016
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:56,519
Speaker 11: and I clipped was despite our wonderfully different journeys to

2017
01:49:56,680 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 11: this point, our motivations and values are completely the same.

2018
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:05,240
Speaker 11: In my experience, if you're trying to have a sense

2019
01:50:05,479 --> 01:50:12,080
Speaker 11: of where you are going to end up, you shouldn't

2020
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:14,639
Speaker 11: look at the technology. You should look at the people

2021
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 11: who are making the decisions, and you should look at

2022
01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:22,360
Speaker 11: what drives, motivates and look at values.

2023
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:24,760
Speaker 4: So Johnny and Sam really feeling.

2024
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:27,559
Speaker 3: Each other there, they really are, you know, you were saying, Sam,

2025
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:30,200
Speaker 3: really sounds like Ezrare at the beginning, Like what really

2026
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 3: does actually?

2027
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:33,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, really through me that it fits.

2028
01:50:33,360 --> 01:50:34,800
Speaker 6: With the abundance agenda. It does?

2029
01:50:35,240 --> 01:50:36,080
Speaker 4: It absolutely does.

2030
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 3: I mean I just can't get over all been taking

2031
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:40,920
Speaker 3: this nonprofit and turn It's one of the things I

2032
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:45,360
Speaker 3: agree with Elon Musk on taking this nonprofit and turn

2033
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:48,120
Speaker 3: trying to turn it into a for profit and then

2034
01:50:48,160 --> 01:50:50,840
Speaker 3: he's going to use the billions and like rise up

2035
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:54,080
Speaker 3: in market cap that to then by the guy that

2036
01:50:54,200 --> 01:50:57,280
Speaker 3: helped make the iPhone. I'm sure everybody who else who

2037
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 3: participated in making the iPhone was like, this guy didn't

2038
01:50:59,240 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 3: do it.

2039
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:04,479
Speaker 2: It's just like a brand, like you created this brand

2040
01:51:04,520 --> 01:51:06,840
Speaker 2: image around I don't know anything. That's why I thought,

2041
01:51:07,439 --> 01:51:09,439
Speaker 2: And it's actually Johnny because I really like I've never

2042
01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:10,960
Speaker 2: heard but apparently he's a big deal.

2043
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:16,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, and it also feels dystopian, like we all

2044
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:20,040
Speaker 3: understand the way that so if if you didn't drive

2045
01:51:20,240 --> 01:51:23,600
Speaker 3: before ways and Google maps, like you don't know that

2046
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:27,360
Speaker 3: you actually can get around places knowing.

2047
01:51:27,240 --> 01:51:27,600
Speaker 8: Where to go.

2048
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:31,360
Speaker 4: Your brain that were devoted to like actually to get places.

2049
01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:35,720
Speaker 3: And so if you take that and you apply it,

2050
01:51:35,800 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 3: you put glasses on and you look this way, and

2051
01:51:39,560 --> 01:51:43,920
Speaker 3: it says tree like your brain is going to stop working.

2052
01:51:44,479 --> 01:51:44,920
Speaker 6: It's going to.

2053
01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:48,080
Speaker 3: Shut down, and it's going to it would be like

2054
01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:50,920
Speaker 3: it's it's like when you don't walk for a couple

2055
01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 3: of weeks because your bed ridden, your legs stop working.

2056
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:58,920
Speaker 2: I have thought that same thing with the exact the

2057
01:51:59,080 --> 01:52:03,880
Speaker 2: exact like GPS, because when I first started driving, there

2058
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:05,680
Speaker 2: was map quests and those sorts of things, but you

2059
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:07,120
Speaker 2: had to print out direction.

2060
01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:10,200
Speaker 4: And then if you screwed up, you had to actually.

2061
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:12,760
Speaker 2: Like get out a map and like figure it out,

2062
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 2: or like go to the gas station, be like, where

2063
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:16,599
Speaker 2: the hell am I what do I do? And then

2064
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:19,840
Speaker 2: your brain actually does this thing of learning where you're

2065
01:52:19,880 --> 01:52:20,880
Speaker 2: going and how to get there.

2066
01:52:21,439 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to a gas station just for

2067
01:52:22,920 --> 01:52:24,519
Speaker 3: fun and ask somebody how to get somewhere.

2068
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:26,639
Speaker 6: They'll like nine one.

2069
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:30,679
Speaker 2: I've actually had people on the street like Taurus asked

2070
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:31,439
Speaker 2: me how to get a place.

2071
01:52:31,479 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, you're gonna get it.

2072
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 2: Way better to have much better success with this anyway. Yeah,

2073
01:52:37,200 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 2: it is terrifying to think about. And already I think

2074
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:44,760
Speaker 2: with even the level of AI we've gotten to, there

2075
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:48,679
Speaker 2: is a lot of risk of especially writing ability atrophying.

2076
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:51,120
Speaker 2: There's all these you know, stories about college kids just

2077
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:53,560
Speaker 2: like rampantly cheating, which you know, you could solve that

2078
01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:55,920
Speaker 2: particular problem force people to write stuff while they're in

2079
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:59,840
Speaker 2: class or whatever. But when you think about it being

2080
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:05,559
Speaker 2: almost fully embedded in your life or ultimately what Elon

2081
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 2: and others want, I mean, it's this like transhumanist vision

2082
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 2: where the tech is actually embedded in your head and

2083
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:16,200
Speaker 2: in this becomes indistinguishable from you and yourself and your

2084
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 2: humanity and whatever your own brain would have brought you

2085
01:53:19,200 --> 01:53:21,479
Speaker 2: to I mean, I don't know how you can feel

2086
01:53:21,560 --> 01:53:24,240
Speaker 2: any other way than that it is frightening and dystopian,

2087
01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:29,320
Speaker 2: and that they're playing with forces that even they don't understand,

2088
01:53:29,400 --> 01:53:30,680
Speaker 2: and I think would admit that they.

2089
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,200
Speaker 3: Don't really understand, and which nobody asked for and.

2090
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:35,080
Speaker 4: Which nobody asked for. That's exactly right.

2091
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:38,519
Speaker 2: And we're such a broken society now that it doesn't

2092
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:42,400
Speaker 2: even feel possible to have like a serious adult conversation

2093
01:53:43,040 --> 01:53:47,360
Speaker 2: about the deployment of this technology, the development of this technology,

2094
01:53:47,479 --> 01:53:49,479
Speaker 2: how it should be used, how it should be constrained,

2095
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:52,200
Speaker 2: et cetera. Let me play a little bit more of

2096
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:55,519
Speaker 2: the Bromance video with with Sam and Johnny there talking

2097
01:53:55,520 --> 01:53:58,880
Speaker 2: about how they their belief they're selling this as like, oh,

2098
01:53:59,040 --> 01:54:01,840
Speaker 2: the iPhone experience, Like we're all too locked down the

2099
01:54:01,920 --> 01:54:04,640
Speaker 2: screens and it's you know, all these alerts and notifications

2100
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:08,160
Speaker 2: or whatever, and this is going to be a human

2101
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 2: centric improvement on the current state of affairs, is the

2102
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 2: way that they're pitching this.

2103
01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:16,080
Speaker 4: At least, let's take a listen to a little bit

2104
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:16,400
Speaker 4: more of that.

2105
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:19,000
Speaker 19: You can talk to people who use our latest model

2106
01:54:19,560 --> 01:54:22,400
Speaker 19: and say this is like genius level in every field,

2107
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:23,760
Speaker 19: and you just have to put in the work to

2108
01:54:23,960 --> 01:54:25,840
Speaker 19: pull it all together. But if you have a hard problem,

2109
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:28,360
Speaker 19: you can have this like team of geniuses in all

2110
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:31,680
Speaker 19: of their different disciplines, and they report, I'm two or

2111
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:34,520
Speaker 19: three times more productive as a scientist than I was before.

2112
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 19: I'm two or three times faster to find a cure

2113
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:39,040
Speaker 19: for cancer than I was before because I have this

2114
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:42,560
Speaker 19: incredible external brain that just didn't exist six months ago.

2115
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:44,960
Speaker 19: I think this will be one of these moments of

2116
01:54:45,720 --> 01:54:50,040
Speaker 19: just an absolute embarrassment of riches of what people don't

2117
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:51,680
Speaker 19: create for collective society.

2118
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 11: I am absolutely certain that we are literally on the

2119
01:54:57,680 --> 01:55:03,800
Speaker 11: brink of a new generation of technology that can make

2120
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:05,920
Speaker 11: us better selves.

2121
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:09,000
Speaker 4: Can make us our better selves. That's the that's the pitch.

2122
01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:12,040
Speaker 2: And look, I mean, there are certain aspects that I'm

2123
01:55:12,080 --> 01:55:14,080
Speaker 2: sure will be beneficial, you know, and they like to

2124
01:55:14,160 --> 01:55:18,040
Speaker 2: sell the possible benefits of like medical breakthroughs, et cetera.

2125
01:55:18,440 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 4: But just focus on that, guys, Yeah, just let's let's

2126
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:22,920
Speaker 4: just do those pieces.

2127
01:55:23,160 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 3: Show us you can make some medical breakthroughs, then come

2128
01:55:26,040 --> 01:55:27,920
Speaker 3: back and make us our better selves.

2129
01:55:28,200 --> 01:55:30,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and be like, and we're going to eliminate all

2130
01:55:30,760 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 2: of the necessity of human lapor. By the way, and

2131
01:55:34,160 --> 01:55:35,920
Speaker 2: some of this is already happening. Let's put this up

2132
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:39,480
Speaker 2: on the screen from Klarna, which is isn't Clarna the

2133
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:41,440
Speaker 2: thing where like when you go to pay for something online,

2134
01:55:41,440 --> 01:55:43,480
Speaker 2: it's like you can pay an installments. It's like the

2135
01:55:43,560 --> 01:55:46,440
Speaker 2: sort of like consumer loan. So they've been having some

2136
01:55:46,520 --> 01:55:49,280
Speaker 2: trouble recently because of consumer sentiment. But in any case,

2137
01:55:49,560 --> 01:55:52,920
Speaker 2: they announced that they already used AI to shrink their

2138
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:57,160
Speaker 2: workforce by forty percent, they said, the CEO said, the

2139
01:55:57,200 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 2: truth is the company is shrunk from about five thousand

2140
01:55:59,360 --> 01:56:01,480
Speaker 2: to now only three thousand employees. If you go to

2141
01:56:01,520 --> 01:56:04,200
Speaker 2: LinkedIn and look at the jobs, you'll see how we're shrinking.

2142
01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:09,280
Speaker 4: And if you talk to the leaders.

2143
01:56:09,080 --> 01:56:12,160
Speaker 2: Of the AI revolution to a person, they will all

2144
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:15,680
Speaker 2: tell you that the goal is to eliminate as much

2145
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:20,440
Speaker 2: human labor as possible. And look, maybe in a world

2146
01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:23,680
Speaker 2: where you have like a large universal basic income or

2147
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 2: some sort of you know, ability to function as an

2148
01:56:28,280 --> 01:56:31,920
Speaker 2: economic political society, and imagine that there might be some

2149
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:35,840
Speaker 2: solution for this type of mass disruption larger than the

2150
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:37,680
Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution in a shorter.

2151
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:38,200
Speaker 4: Period of time.

2152
01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:41,480
Speaker 2: That's what they're at least promising to deliver, then maybe

2153
01:56:41,640 --> 01:56:45,520
Speaker 2: you could, you know, imagine a non dystopian version of this.

2154
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:48,840
Speaker 2: But as things sit today in US society, where we

2155
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:51,240
Speaker 2: can't even do things like you know, give parents paid

2156
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 2: over time, it's hard to imagine this working out in

2157
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:56,880
Speaker 2: a way that is beneficial for the masses, especially since

2158
01:56:56,920 --> 01:57:02,720
Speaker 2: it's controlled by these few highlight concentrated, you know, tech giants.

2159
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:05,640
Speaker 3: And this one itself is particularly symbolic because it's a

2160
01:57:05,720 --> 01:57:10,680
Speaker 3: company that is basically a payday lender, you know, trying

2161
01:57:10,760 --> 01:57:14,880
Speaker 3: to you know, grease the wheels of consumption commerce for

2162
01:57:14,960 --> 01:57:17,640
Speaker 3: people who aren't getting paid enough to be able to

2163
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:19,480
Speaker 3: make ends meet.

2164
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:20,600
Speaker 6: So there's this company.

2165
01:57:20,600 --> 01:57:23,200
Speaker 3: They'll come in and give you a little the little

2166
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:26,840
Speaker 3: loan and the terms are great unless you don't pay it,

2167
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 3: and then the terms are terrible. And so the argument

2168
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 3: from AI is, we can do this high tech payday

2169
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 3: lending with fewer employees, right, so we're not.

2170
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:41,360
Speaker 2: Even getting lead like the job creation of the payday lender,

2171
01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:46,040
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like concentrating all of the wealth

2172
01:57:46,080 --> 01:57:48,280
Speaker 2: extraction in the hands of it just a few people,

2173
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:48,920
Speaker 2: just a few people.

2174
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 4: We're going to make sure that that happens like.

2175
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:52,720
Speaker 3: Oh good, okay, great, thanks, that's that's nice.

2176
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 6: That makes me feel better.

2177
01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:57,400
Speaker 2: You know, we mentioned the abundance guys earlier. Derek has

2178
01:57:57,440 --> 01:57:59,760
Speaker 2: been doing some work on suggesting that some of this

2179
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,800
Speaker 2: AI job replacement among white color employees may already be happening.

2180
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:05,880
Speaker 4: That they're increasing indications.

2181
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:07,440
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things they point to is

2182
01:58:07,480 --> 01:58:09,920
Speaker 2: the number of college graduates you're going straight to law school.

2183
01:58:09,920 --> 01:58:12,160
Speaker 4: Now, that's also kind of a recession indicator, so it

2184
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:12,880
Speaker 4: could be that good.

2185
01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 3: Also, guys, be careful, Like AI can write legal briefs well,

2186
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:17,520
Speaker 3: and that's the thing.

2187
01:58:17,760 --> 01:58:21,320
Speaker 2: And you know, you can imagine if you're a big

2188
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:24,440
Speaker 2: law firm, instead of hiring I don't know, twenty of

2189
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:27,640
Speaker 2: the new associates, you hire five and you give.

2190
01:58:27,480 --> 01:58:31,520
Speaker 4: Them chat GPT, and a lot of law briefs are a.

2191
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:34,880
Speaker 2: Lot of like grunt legal work is very sort of

2192
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:38,960
Speaker 2: copy and paste, and especially the corporate filings are just

2193
01:58:39,040 --> 01:58:42,480
Speaker 2: basically like proforming. You sub in this company's name instead

2194
01:58:42,520 --> 01:58:44,760
Speaker 2: of that company's name, and their evaluation instead of their

2195
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:45,800
Speaker 2: valuation whatever.

2196
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:49,480
Speaker 3: What they're finding though, is that these AI models are

2197
01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:52,640
Speaker 3: just fabricating a bunch of stuff. Yeah, like they're writing

2198
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:56,920
Speaker 3: these legal briefs and citing cases that don't exist, completely

2199
01:58:56,960 --> 01:59:00,720
Speaker 3: misreading cases that do exist, applying law that, making up

2200
01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:03,840
Speaker 3: laws that don't actually exist, and putting them in And

2201
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:07,160
Speaker 3: you can tell that men designed all of this because

2202
01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:08,480
Speaker 3: it's done with complete authority.

2203
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I can tell.

2204
01:59:11,560 --> 01:59:12,480
Speaker 3: You all about that case.

2205
01:59:12,680 --> 01:59:14,760
Speaker 6: Well, the thing is completely wrong.

2206
01:59:15,160 --> 01:59:17,160
Speaker 2: It really messes with you too, because it'll be like,

2207
01:59:17,320 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 2: you know, twenty citations and nineteen of them are spot off,

2208
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:23,240
Speaker 2: and then one buried in there is just totally made up,

2209
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:25,040
Speaker 2: is completely fabricated.

2210
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:28,560
Speaker 3: And so the thing that college graduates are hired for

2211
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:32,440
Speaker 3: at these white collar jobs is producing memos for the boss,

2212
01:59:32,600 --> 01:59:35,160
Speaker 3: like organizing, doing research.

2213
01:59:35,480 --> 01:59:39,080
Speaker 4: Be an Excel spreadsheet, spreadsheets now, and that's.

2214
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:41,680
Speaker 6: How you learn what the company does.

2215
01:59:41,880 --> 01:59:44,800
Speaker 3: Learn you know how to work in a company, and

2216
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:46,880
Speaker 3: then rise through the ranks and then become one of

2217
01:59:46,920 --> 01:59:49,680
Speaker 3: the people telling the college graduates what to do. If

2218
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:53,400
Speaker 3: those jobs all get cut out, how does that twenty

2219
01:59:53,440 --> 01:59:55,800
Speaker 3: two year old then become the thirty two year old

2220
01:59:55,960 --> 01:59:59,600
Speaker 3: who's in the mid job and become the forty five

2221
01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:03,400
Speaker 3: year old higher up. Yeah, you're breaking the whole You're

2222
02:00:03,440 --> 02:00:04,520
Speaker 3: breaking the entire thing.

2223
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a daughter who you know, is going

2224
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:09,920
Speaker 2: to be going to college, and she's seventeen, she has

2225
02:00:09,960 --> 02:00:12,520
Speaker 2: one more year of high school, and she I think

2226
02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:15,720
Speaker 2: she knows what she wants to do. But if I

2227
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:18,520
Speaker 2: were to give sort of like broad advice about what

2228
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:21,680
Speaker 2: would be the right careers to go into, that would

2229
02:00:21,680 --> 02:00:24,000
Speaker 2: be like AI proof. It's not an easy thing to

2230
02:00:24,040 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 2: figure out, not an easy thing to figure out at all,

2231
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:31,080
Speaker 2: because Yeah, most of those entry level like color jobs

2232
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:34,280
Speaker 2: that you would get coming out of college seems like

2233
02:00:34,480 --> 02:00:37,360
Speaker 2: they could be, you know, hugely impacted by what but

2234
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:41,160
Speaker 2: even what we already have let alone wherever the development

2235
02:00:41,280 --> 02:00:44,280
Speaker 2: ultimately goes. And again, you know, I guess it'd be

2236
02:00:44,360 --> 02:00:45,920
Speaker 2: one thing if there was some sort of a natural

2237
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:48,720
Speaker 2: conversation about what we're going to do about that, But

2238
02:00:48,840 --> 02:00:51,960
Speaker 2: there's not. It's just total no breaks on the car.

2239
02:00:52,600 --> 02:00:54,280
Speaker 2: We're in a race with China and we have to

2240
02:00:54,360 --> 02:00:56,920
Speaker 2: win consequences. We're not even going to think about what

2241
02:00:57,240 --> 02:00:59,560
Speaker 2: the fallout is going to be. And we think about

2242
02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:03,320
Speaker 2: how foundly our society has been changed by the smartphone

2243
02:01:03,320 --> 02:01:07,400
Speaker 2: and by specifically algorithmic social media. We can't even cope

2244
02:01:07,440 --> 02:01:10,080
Speaker 2: with that, apparently, right and now we're going to be

2245
02:01:10,280 --> 02:01:12,640
Speaker 2: you know, have an ambient tech that's informing you know,

2246
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:16,720
Speaker 2: that's talking to our brains all the time, and you know,

2247
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:20,160
Speaker 2: feeding us answers or insights or you know, writing our

2248
02:01:20,240 --> 02:01:23,760
Speaker 2: essays or whatever constantly. It's just I don't think anyone

2249
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:26,320
Speaker 2: can really anticipate what the fallout could be.

2250
02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:30,200
Speaker 3: Well, luckily the textile mails are coming back, so they work,

2251
02:01:30,240 --> 02:01:32,760
Speaker 3: there are they are?

2252
02:01:32,840 --> 02:01:32,960
Speaker 9: They?

2253
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:36,600
Speaker 6: Nobody here knows how to sew though, so that's a problem.

2254
02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:39,520
Speaker 2: Well and certainly, and yeah, well that that was the

2255
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:41,720
Speaker 2: other thing when Lutnik was talking about like the millions

2256
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:44,960
Speaker 2: army of millions to screw in little little screws. If

2257
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:47,440
Speaker 2: you listen to the whole quote, he actually says, no,

2258
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:49,640
Speaker 2: that will actually be robots that will be doing.

2259
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:51,880
Speaker 3: That, and what he yeah, he's like, this is out

2260
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:54,480
Speaker 3: of context. What you'll actually be doing is you'll be working.

2261
02:01:54,280 --> 02:01:57,640
Speaker 4: On the robots, right, right, But that will take your kids.

2262
02:01:57,480 --> 02:01:58,920
Speaker 3: And your grandkids will also be able to work on

2263
02:01:58,960 --> 02:02:03,920
Speaker 3: the robots, right. Not the most inspiring vision of the future.

2264
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:06,560
Speaker 4: And why wouldn't you have other robots working on the robots.

2265
02:02:07,320 --> 02:02:09,880
Speaker 3: I guess the robots are going to break eventually, and

2266
02:02:10,040 --> 02:02:11,480
Speaker 3: the other robots can't figure it out.

2267
02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:14,640
Speaker 2: Maybe there's some role for the human being in there.

2268
02:02:15,760 --> 02:02:17,600
Speaker 2: All right, guys, thank you so much for hanging with

2269
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:20,000
Speaker 2: us today. Ryan and Emily are going to do the

2270
02:02:20,120 --> 02:02:22,520
Speaker 2: Friday Show tomorrow. I'm sure there will be many things

2271
02:02:22,880 --> 02:02:25,440
Speaker 2: for them to discuss, and we are actually going to

2272
02:02:25,480 --> 02:02:28,400
Speaker 2: take Memorial Day off enjoy a long weekend. Let our

2273
02:02:28,440 --> 02:02:31,560
Speaker 2: crew and everybody enjoy a long weekend. So we'll see

2274
02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:32,560
Speaker 2: you back here next week.