1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: I have an eight year old and then this little 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: baby who's one and a half, and the eight year 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: old is kind of like curious about all the older kids. Stuff. 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Actually told her what the swear words were this morning, 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: she asked, and I was like, I'm going to just 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: tell you what they are and how to spell them. 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: And if I tell you them, would you just not 8 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: save them? Does not save them? For a while, my 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: mom had really never told me anything. But then when 10 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: I went and I was like, hey, what about this? 11 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: She was like, I know, it's crazy. Why don't you 12 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: tell me? She's like, I don't know. I just thought 13 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: I'll you'd wait for you. Amazing. Hello, I'm Mini Driver. 14 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Many Questions Season two. I've always loved 15 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: Chruz's question at It was originally a nineteenth century parlor 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: game where players would ask each other thirty five questions 17 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: aimed at revealing the other player's true nature. It's just 18 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: the scientific method, really. In asking different people the same 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: set of questions, you can make observations about which truths 20 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: appeared to be universal. I love this discipline, and it 21 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: made me wonder, what if these questions were just the 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: jumping off point? What greater depths would be revealed if 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: I ask these questions as conversation starters with thought leaders 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: and trailblazers across all these different disciplines. So I adapted 25 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: prus questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: I personally think a pertinent to a person's story. They 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: are when and where were you happiest? What is the 28 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, 29 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, 30 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: What would be your last meal? And can you tell 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: me something in your life that's grown out of a 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, 34 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: ones that I am honored and humbled to have had 35 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: the chance to engage with. You may not hear their 36 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: answers to all seven of these questions. We've whittled it 37 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: down to which questions felt closest to their experience, or 38 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: the most surprising, or created the most fertile ground to connect. 39 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: My guest today on many questions is musician and multiple 40 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: Tony Award winner Anius Mitchell. Anius wrote the extraordinarily brilliant 41 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 1: musical Hades Town, which won eight Tony's out of fourteen nominations, 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: including Best Musical and Best Original Score. She is, by 43 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: any standard of musical bloody genius, and her curiosity, her talent, 44 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: and her spirit feel like they permeate all aspects of 45 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: her life. Hadestown is a telling of the Greek myth 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: of Orpheus and Euridiccy through jazz, folk rock, and pure Americana. 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: And if you know the story of Orpheus and Euridacy, 48 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: Orpheus to sends into the underworld to rescue his love Euridiccy, 49 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: and when Hades, king of the Underworld, allows him to 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: take her back to the world, his only instruction is 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: that Obvious must not look back as they are ascending 52 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: up into the world. And you were to see us 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: walking behind him, and in this moment of what I 54 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: have always thought of as sort of thick headed hubris, 55 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: although as sees it differently, Ophous looks back and you 56 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: were to see is lost to him forever. It's a 57 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: sad miss but Hades Town is full of the kind 58 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: of raw, soulful joy that makes even this sad love 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: story shine with magic. When and where were you happiest. Yeah, 60 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: when and where I was the happiest. This one is 61 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: so tricky. There's so many different moments and eras of 62 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: my life, and I feel like immediately I'm like, oh, 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: I should talk about birth of my children. I should, 64 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, things I should say. But the one that 65 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: just popped into my mind first is this moment. I 66 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: was like, I was twenty seven years old, and I 67 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: was coming out of like a kind of a stuck 68 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: time in my life, like creatively socially, just feeling like 69 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: everything was inching along and not and then never like 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: coming to fruition, and it just felt kind of stuck. 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: I guess it was my saddern return, right, kind of 72 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: classic for that. So the first thing that happened was 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: I read Eckert Totally's book for the first time. Have 74 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: you read those books? Oh yeah, oh yeah? Did you 75 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: read What the Power of Now? It was actually A 76 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: New Earth was the first one I read, and I 77 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have read it except someone I really trusted 78 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: kind of said here, if they saw me in my 79 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,799 Speaker 1: sadder Return moment, They're like, here, you should read this book. 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: I've reread it since, but it was the first time 81 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: it really packs the wall of for people that haven't 82 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: read it, all about being present in the moment and 83 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: kind of detaching like your experience of life and being 84 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: in the world from all of the names that we 85 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: put on it. So I'm reading this book and I'm like, 86 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: I'll read a few pages and then just put it 87 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: down and feel so alive and jrful. And at this moment, 88 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: I was offered a gig opening a tour in Europe 89 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: for a band, a big, much bigger band that I 90 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: didn't really know, but I came to really admire. And 91 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: so it was me opening solo acoustic tar for this big, 92 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: beautiful band and riding on their bus, you know, in Europe, 93 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: and we were kind of like stay up all night 94 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: we played the gig, We'd stay up all night listening 95 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: to music. What was the thing before the iPhone, the iPod, 96 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: right like pass around the iPod and everyone would get 97 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: to choose music, and we just were so in love 98 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: with music. And I remember this one morning that we 99 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: woke up we had a day off, and we were 100 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: in Paris and we were rolled out of the bus 101 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: and there's a little cafe and started to drink beer, 102 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: you know in the in the daylight, like these tall 103 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: French beers, and then just like coming out of this 104 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: cafe and the sun was shining, was kind of cold day, 105 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: the sun is shining, and I looked across the street 106 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: and there was the Louver, and so I went to 107 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: the Louver and the art was hearing like a thousand 108 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: times as hard because the Eckert totally and the beer, yeah, 109 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: and the friendship, the camaie and just being out there 110 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: doing what I wanted to be doing, and so that 111 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: was like a moment for me that was a very 112 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: happy time. I love that. You know what's funny is 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: like the idea when we think about happiness, and it's 114 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: certainly in having talked to loads of people about it, 115 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: the idea of there being a sort of a purity 116 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: in anything that it is on a Lloyd, that there 117 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: isn't a confluence of things happening at any one moment 118 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: that creates these moments like it's I feel like we're 119 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: extraordinarily binary and going, well, if I'm doing this, I 120 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: will be happy this one thing. Whereas it's really totally 121 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: and it's beer and it's light and Paris and opportunity 122 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: and probably a certain return it's all these things. Yeah, 123 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: that makes total sense. Again and again I come to 124 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: the realization at like the big moments I'm often not 125 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: as present for like the winning of the Tony or whatever. 126 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: It was like in a fugue stick, you know, like 127 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: I just I wasn't even there. And even my wedding, 128 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, which was like so beautiful, it felt like 129 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: such a oh my friends and family, this culmination of 130 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: so much in this commitment, and it was kind of 131 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: like an incredible party that I wasn't entirely at, And 132 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: so I just sort of had stuff looking for satisfaction 133 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: and happiness from the moments when everyone's like, how does 134 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: it feel? How does it feel? I think that is 135 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: exactly it. And as with most sort of like ruminations 136 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: that I think we probably then forget about and get 137 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: them with making the coffee, changing the diaper, it's like 138 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: take your eye off the ball, like my dad used 139 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: to say, when something was really bad, was one was 140 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: really hard, stop looking at it, even though it feels overwhelming. 141 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: To take your eye off it and get back into 142 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: the sort of menut shy of what is happening, and 143 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: you will start to metabolize your life again and weirdly 144 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: piggyback your better feeling onto that shitty thing. I think 145 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: these in the same way that these huge moments they 146 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: require almost too much for us to be able to quantify, 147 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: whereas it's these tiny moments, these fragments that you patch 148 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: together and suddenly that's where the explosion. Yes, that's huge, 149 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: that's huge, And I feel like two things jumped into 150 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: my mind. One is like if you're doing a crossword puzzle, 151 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, and you get stuck on a clue and 152 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: you just want to like bang your head against the 153 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: newspaper to find this clue, yeah, or cheat, right, But 154 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: usually like if you take a break, like you just 155 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: got to take a break and put your mind somewhere else, 156 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: and then the soft focus, Like a lot of things 157 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: come out of that soft focus. That's too creatively, I 158 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: think you when I'm writing and when it's difficult, I walk. 159 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: There was a whole thing neurologically that literally, when you 160 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: are physically doing something else, your brain stops worrying at 161 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: your right and left brain are sort of more balanced 162 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: when you add in another activity. So it actually kind 163 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: of makes sense. But I always find that the great 164 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: unblocking comes when I do something else. Yeah. Yeah. At 165 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: one point when I was working on Hades Sound, I 166 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: was living in Park Slope in Brooklyn, and I was 167 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: kind of borrowing my friends studio, which was in Lefford's 168 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: Cardens around the other side of the park as a 169 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: writing spot. So I would get on my bike and 170 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: I would ride around Prospect Park to get to the studio, 171 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: and I would have all these ideas, like I'd have 172 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: ideas on the bike. Sometimes I roll around the park, 173 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: the whole park, and then get to Leffords Guard and 174 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: get to the studio, get to the desk, and then nothing, 175 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, nothing would happen at the desk, just as 176 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: such an illustration of the app soft focus. And I 177 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: even feel like in my life I've noticed side projects 178 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: often are so magical and had son. You know, for 179 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: a long time it was a side project. I felt 180 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: like my songwriter career was the main thing, and then 181 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: this is this weird other thing I'm going to kind 182 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: of soft focus on. At a certain point it became 183 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: the main thing. But there's a charmed quality to those 184 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: things that were not obsessing over how did you write? 185 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: Because you wrote another record while you were writing Hadi's 186 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: time Bonnie exactly, Bonnie lad Horseman. But was that what 187 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: you were talking about was that you had to take 188 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: your eye off the ball and do something else or 189 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: did you just owe a record and you had to 190 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: write it. Yeah, that felt the same way. It was 191 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: a side project. I was like, this is not my identity. 192 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of anxiety around that music at all, 193 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: and it was easy as working with these two beautiful 194 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: friend collaborators, Josh Kaufman and Eric D. Johnson, And it 195 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: felt easy. And usually I don't trust that, like I 196 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: think it's got to be hard or it's not going 197 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: to be good, but that band felt like, oh wow, 198 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: it's it feels so intuitive and natural. And so it 199 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: was at that point that was the side project that 200 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: was sort of giving me life interesting. I think my 201 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: dad might have been a bit of an act cart Tolley, 202 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: because I do think it's like, take your mind off 203 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: the thing and put it elsewhere, and then the thing 204 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: will work itself out and you'll get everything that you 205 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: need to solve that problem by doing this other thing. 206 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: As with most personal growth, it sounds counter into your type, 207 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: which is probably why we don't do it enough, because 208 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,599 Speaker 1: it's like Wow, that sounds great. I'm not going to 209 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: do that right, Yeah exactly. The director of Haiti Sound, 210 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: Rachel Chapkin, is like kind of a Jedi, yeah, Jedi 211 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: creative person and she gets a lot of good ideas 212 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: when she's napping. And she'll take these little naps where 213 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: she's very good at falling asleep in the middle of 214 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,599 Speaker 1: the day, you know, anywhere, just kind go in the 215 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: back room and lay on the floor and can make 216 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: herself fall asleep. And the way that she does it 217 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: is she kind of she lays down and then she 218 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: says she phrased the mind by thinking about like three 219 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: or four things at once, like three or four things 220 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: that she's interested in. She put her mind on him 221 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: at once, and that kind of is like enough to 222 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: knock her out. And I love she fries her own 223 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: circuit board. Yeah exactly exactly, And somehow the frying of 224 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: the circuit board then leads to like these great ideas 225 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: that happened in the Knap state, in the knap space. 226 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: Well that's also her book now, it's called Knapsack. What 227 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: quality do you like least about yourself? I am definitely 228 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: someone who overthinks and second guesses a lot, and I 229 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: think just insecurity that I feel like I've lived with 230 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: my whole life and I keep expecting it to go away, 231 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,839 Speaker 1: you know, as like I get older, I'm like, when 232 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: am I gonna give less? Can I swear on the 233 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,599 Speaker 1: show or no swearing? Oh? Yeah, you can swear absolutely. 234 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: I'll give you full permission, like not like, give no 235 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,719 Speaker 1: Fox anymore? If the fewer, you know, give fewer. I 236 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: haven't arrived there yet. I just I care too much. 237 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes did I say something awkward? Is this song you 238 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: know as good as it could be? Do I look bad? 239 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: You know? Things like that it's exhausting. Do you find 240 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: that the achievements so as you're standing there with the 241 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: hardware of a tony, like multiple Tonys in your hands, 242 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: did you ever sort of consciously allow that to mitigate 243 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: that other voice? Like, do you ever think back to 244 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: your achievements and help them soothe those moments of insecurity? 245 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: I think no. The one thing I will say I 246 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: feel a little bit more confident about now is that 247 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: I've written enough songs that I know that at the 248 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: moment when I'm like, I don't know how to write 249 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: a song, there's no way I'm going to finish the songs. 250 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: You know, I kind of can look back and be like, well, 251 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: you did finish all those other songs, so probably it's 252 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: going to happen. You know. That feels a little more 253 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: sure for me. But in terms of like I'm meeting 254 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: somebody at a party and I'm like, I want to Tony, 255 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: it doesn't cross my mind. You know, taking like a 256 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: power stance and in the women's room, we certainly allow 257 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: ourselves to be haunted by the shitty things that happened 258 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: to us. Oh yeah, why didn't we allow ourselves to 259 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: be beautifully haunted by those things that we've achieved. I 260 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: wonder why we don't do that more. They're they're they're 261 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: available energy and actually fundamentally tangible, like you did these things. 262 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: I do that sometimes with my son. I look at 263 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: Henry when when things are not working out and go, 264 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: I made a person. I made a person who is 265 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: so funny and talented and kind and good, and give 266 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: myself some sort of credit for that. Yeah. Kids do 267 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: kind of change the equation a little bit because it's 268 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: like your relationship with them has nothing to do with 269 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: your creative accomplishments. You know, it's kind of like there's 270 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: a foundation of family love that is going to be there. 271 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: However awkward you are at a party, it's going to 272 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,319 Speaker 1: be there. Yeah, exactly how old is your son? He 273 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: just turned thirteen? Amazing. Wow, it is completely bananas because 274 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: it's the same. It's the same feeling as when they 275 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: were one and a half or when they were six 276 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: months old. I'm seven thousand miles away from my son 277 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: right now, and it's brutal. Yeah, even though I know 278 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: he's totally fine and happy and doing his thing. It's 279 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: just I don't think that ever goes away that feeling 280 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: of I need to be in close proximity. Yeah. I 281 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: wonder what it's like for my parents now, you know, 282 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: like an adult life, if you still have those vieelings 283 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: or not. It's funny. I think they do. I just 284 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: think that there's more space in between because that the 285 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: letting go, which is what nobody ever tells you about 286 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: about parenting. The very first thing literally physically that you 287 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: do with your child is let go. Everything is more 288 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: letting go, and I think as you get older. I 289 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: was very close with my mother, but I watched how 290 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: she would foster those spaces in between because she knew 291 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: that we had to go and do our thing, but 292 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: I know now that it was active and conscious and 293 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: probably quite painful, right, I know it's brutal, actually, I 294 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: mean it's beautiful. It's beautiful and brutal parenting because I 295 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: would literally I would have Henry carry me around his 296 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: book bag, like if possible, I just like get inside, 297 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: back back, I'll stay here through double chemistry with you. 298 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: I just wanted what relationship, real or fictionalized to find 299 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: love for you. I'm a kind of a romantic, like 300 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: I always have kind of been a romantic and love 301 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: to the idea of you know, love at first sight 302 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: and a kind of twin souls, you know, and yeah, 303 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: that idea that you meet someone I'm thinking of worth 304 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: us and your reality right now, because it's that's what 305 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: it was. Yeah. I remember, like a bunch of times 306 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: in the sort of amateurgical trenches of working on the show, 307 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: people with the dramaturg or like someone else would be like, 308 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: but why does you love her? You know, why does 309 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: orpheus love you? Real Tocy and I would be like, 310 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: because he's orpheous and she's your really, which is not 311 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: enough for you know, a lot of people they need 312 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: to see the kind of causality. But the idea of this, 313 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: what's what is written in the stars. And oh another 314 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: kind of fictional version of that that went deep for 315 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: me is that Hemmingway book for Whom the Bell Tolls. 316 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: You know, just these like young revolutionaries like fighting fascism 317 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: and their love and it's like the earth moves and 318 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: all that stuff. And I feel like I've had an 319 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: experience of that with my life partner. I've been went 320 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: the same guys since I was nineteen. We were like 321 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: not fully formed in our identities, you know, we were 322 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: like wet clay when we met, and it wasn't full on, 323 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: you know, from the age of nineteen. There was kind 324 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: of a courtship and there was some breakups and stuff, 325 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: but there were a bunch of moments that felt like 326 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: these star cross moments like oh my god, this is 327 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: my person, you know, and almost like a scary terrifying 328 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: because you see your mortality connected to it. It contains 329 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: everything this idea of like the love at first sight. 330 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: It's like youthful infatuation and beauty and then also you 331 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: know you're gonna die with this person, like you you 332 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: see the whole thing, and it contains all of it, 333 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: and and so there's a way in which it's almost 334 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: like it's tragic even if it's not ortheous in your Idacy, 335 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: or or Romeo and Juliet. It's like, even if you're 336 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: married for seventy five years and then you die in 337 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: each other's arms, it's still like a tragedy at some level. Right, Wow, 338 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: the span, I think that's pretty amazing, Like you hold 339 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: the paradigm that is pretty massive at the idea at 340 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: nineteen to be able to be with someone that kind 341 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: of love and the love. Now are you in your 342 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: like late thirties, like around I just turned forty. Look 343 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: at that, like that twenty year span, Like that's incredible 344 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: to be able to see the end and to not 345 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: let it derail then now, to see it as tragic, 346 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: to see it as beautiful, to see it as never ending. 347 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: I mean, no wonder you love the Greeks. Really. I 348 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: work up this morning thinking about Orpheus and euridacy because 349 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: the last thing this person that I he was my 350 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: best friend and I loved him very very very much. 351 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: We were together for a long time and then it 352 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: ended horribly. The most helpful thing he ever said to 353 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: me was don't look back. And I've always linked it 354 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: to orpheous and euridacy. I've always linked it to that 355 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: moment of just don't look back, Just don't. I know 356 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: what happens if you do. You know what happens if 357 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: you do. Just don't do it. I think about those 358 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: gifts that you get from people that have hurt you, 359 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: and I wondered if he got it from orpheus. He 360 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: loved the Greeks too so, and but I don't look 361 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: back for you? Was it to not doubt yourself? Was it? 362 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: The idea of like, don't look down almost is literally 363 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: coming back to the Eckhart totally idea of it is 364 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: a complete illusion to look back, to look back and 365 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: feel that that is going to have really any relevance. 366 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: And I know that's sort of a bold statement, but 367 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: the now, this moment, trust this now, to trust that 368 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: all of the ideas that you think, like, if I 369 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: look back, I will get this if I look back 370 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: and I pick over the bones at this thing, if 371 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: I look back because I'm frightened, it will somehow make 372 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: mine now better. And that that is a fallacy. It's 373 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: such an extraordinary gift that he gave me because I 374 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: think it often, particular, when I start being frightened about 375 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: historical stuff that I'm worried is going to play out 376 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: again in this now, I shriek it at myself Sometimes 377 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: this morning I was shrieking it orvious, like just don't 378 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: just don't look. I just keep walking, Just keep walking, 379 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 1: and it's going to be fine. Like trust you can't 380 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: hear anything, you can't see anything, you don't know anything. 381 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: Trust this very moment and you will be all right. 382 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, a cosmic thing that kind of happened 383 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: with our orpheus and you're to see I think I'm 384 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: allowed to tell it's quite public at this point, but 385 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: our actors that play orphous and you're to see totally 386 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: film love you know they really that's amazing. Yeah, And 387 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: I thought, oh, you know, when I saw that that 388 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: was hapening, I was like, I hope they can keep 389 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: it together because it's not going to be easy. You know, 390 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: six months down the line, if there's a breakup and 391 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: they're like trying to play these start cross lovers and 392 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: but they're still together. They made it through the pandemic. 393 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: They're like got a dog, Like it's beautiful and they're 394 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: so beautiful together. It's crazy because it's a story that 395 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: the people know how it ends, but there's still a 396 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: gasp like when he turns around, it's like, how did 397 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: this happen? That's exactly it. We want to change the 398 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: ending of the story, maybe like seeing the repetition of 399 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: that over and over again, it's like you, you can't 400 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: change that story, but you can take the piece that 401 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: you're shrieking about and you can bring it into your 402 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: life and go, I know how that works out? Yeah? Yeah. 403 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: And there's also something about like you're saying that this 404 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: sort of this X of yours gave you this piece 405 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: of wisdom that you have carried on in your life, 406 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: and that there's a way in which, like I'm like, 407 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: you light someone's candle with your candle and then or 408 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: their cigarette with your cigarette, and you keep a flame going. 409 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: And that's kind of I think in the Orpheus story, 410 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: at least the way it plays out with Hades Toun 411 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: is like, well, okay, we still celebrate Orpheus because he 412 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: kept the flame and now it's someone else's turn. Got 413 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: that such a beautiful image, like the relay of love? Yes, 414 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: and we judge the tragic part of it, the part 415 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: of it not working out. But actually, as you just said, 416 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: like in your own life, it's part of the whole. 417 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: The tragedy is always there, present in the joy and 418 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: the wonder. It doesn't diminish your takeaway or fears. Seeing 419 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: you really to see in the forest or wherever it 420 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: was that he saw her and falling madly in love, 421 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: and the very short time that they had to love 422 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: each other, or the short time that I had to 423 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: love this man. It's not diminished by how it ended 424 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: up in a way, but it's hard to hold that 425 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: in your heart that all can be true. Poor humans, 426 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: we're given certain tools that we just don't use. What 427 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: would be your last meal? From my best meal, I 428 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: would like it to be a sort of like this 429 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: is your life meal. You know that I could return 430 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: to some dishes that were You know how at different 431 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: times of your life you just do one dish a lot, 432 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: and then maybe you're sick of it and you don't 433 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: do it again. But then if you were to have 434 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: it again, it reminds you of this era. And so 435 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: here's what I'm gonna do. This is okay, it's a 436 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: few things yes, okay, okay, So from my childhood, I'm 437 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: going to have So I grew up on this sheep farm, 438 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: and my parents they spent a little time on this 439 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: Greek island when they were young hippies. Then like they 440 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: carried the kind of romance for this Greek island with them, 441 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: I think in my childhood. And so my mom she 442 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,239 Speaker 1: would make like a marinadd lamb chopped. It was all 443 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: about just like marinade them like crazy with the family marinade, 444 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: and then broiled them like really fast on both sides. 445 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: And also I think like she would make these Greek 446 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: potatoes they had lemon and garlic, and so I associate 447 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: that with this sort of special family meal that we 448 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: would have, like if people came over for dinner, it 449 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,239 Speaker 1: was all like we're gonna have lamp. So I'm going 450 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: to have that. And then so my husband, my life partner, 451 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: he is a farmer of vegetables, and there's a couple 452 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: of kind of vegetable dishes that I associate with him 453 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: in different times of our life. And so I'll get 454 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: his vegetables and I will make like a kale salad. 455 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: You massage the kale with you know, the salt in 456 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: the oil, and then maybe it's feta and lemon and 457 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: like maybe some toasted seeds and they're all like finally ribboned, 458 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: ribboned up, and all right, what else was I think? Oh? Yeah, okay, 459 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: so Haiti's town. I've worked on Haiti sound for so long, 460 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: and I spent a lot of time with Rachel Chapkin, 461 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: the director, and our music director, Liam Robinson. And there's 462 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: a whole era where we were working on the show 463 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: out of town, and so we would be put up 464 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: in these little flats and a lot of times, like 465 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: late at night, we come back to the flat someone's 466 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: flat and we would fry some Halloomi cheese, like we 467 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: all got into halloom me at the same time. And 468 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: now if I taste the Halloomi cheese, I picture this 469 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: like really joyful time of like in the trenches with 470 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: those guys eyes working on that show, which is really 471 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: like a third of my creative life was like working 472 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: on that show. So I have the Halloomi. I don't 473 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: have a meaningful dessert really, so I might just have 474 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: like a chocolate moose. You know. There's a thing that 475 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: I always like, don't let myself have it. So I 476 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: would have it. Wow, I really like that. There's a 477 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: kind of Dickensie and let's go back and revisit the 478 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: ghosts of meals past. Yeah, it's like Proust. It's like 479 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: the Madaline and the Teeth. That's a way better analogy. 480 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: I love that because it does it. It lights up 481 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: those parts of our life. So it really just becomes 482 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,959 Speaker 1: the illustration of memory in such an immediate way. And 483 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: food can do that like and and actually, I guess 484 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: the sense of smell really does that in a way 485 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: that you know, you smell like a product, like a 486 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: perfume that your boyfriend wore when we're like fourteen or something, 487 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: and it's just like a complete body slam of memory. 488 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: And music is that way too. I couldn't agree more. 489 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: But if I listened to Elliott Smith, it's so painful 490 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: and it is so beautiful. I was in the studio 491 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: with him while he was recording Exo and when he 492 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: was layering these vocals, and it was it was so funny, 493 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: like watching somebody build something which is still standing now 494 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: he's gone. It's incredible. It's like experiencing the strongest moments 495 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: of him. It's so interesting how there is music. It 496 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: hits you on every single level and kind of takes 497 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: your breath away. It's so physiological, like you really feel 498 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: it in your body. And I look at a person 499 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: I get like obsessed with one song, almost like I 500 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: can't breathe, like I need it, you know, like you 501 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: get in the cards like quick, get it on, like 502 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: get it on the stereo like I need it, and 503 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: just listen again and again and again to one song 504 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: or one album from one artist at a time. And 505 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: then if I hear that song, it takes me back. Yeah, 506 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: it's feeling right, it's getting having permission to feel again. 507 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: Poor sweet humans, we can't marshal all of the stuff 508 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: that there is to synthesize and feel in this life. 509 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: I think music is a way of doing that. As 510 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: his food, as his love, I suppose. Yeah, music is 511 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: very calming for me. I find like if I'm at 512 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: home and like, you know, the boredom of children, A 513 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: small children, Yeah, yes, small children. They're just like they 514 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: want to read the same board book a million times. 515 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: And if I have music on, I don't mind. You know, 516 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: if you're cooking something, they go together. If you're cooking something, 517 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: you smell that thing cooking out of the kitchen and 518 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: you've got the music on, everything is okay, you can 519 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: sort of be cool. Yeah, it's absolutely true. Certainly with 520 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: the children thing. It gives you a place to sit 521 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: on that is above the grinding repetition of small children, 522 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: which is obviously how they're learning. They need to repeat 523 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: all that stuff. But it doesn't like you in saying, 524 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: but listening to phole records, I must say, I love 525 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: doing that. My son's just started doing that and going, 526 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, because these children, they've just been indoctrinated with 527 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: like a single or like a song to playing him albums. 528 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: He came running in the other he just listened to 529 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: Inner Visions and he was like, Mom, it's connected, the 530 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: whole thing. It's connected. And doing something else. I said, 531 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: what do you mean. He's like the songs it's connected, 532 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: like if you listen to them one after the my 533 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: sweet friend who's like born into the world of like 534 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: infinite shuffle, like there's no connectivity. It was so brilliant 535 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: his little face when he saw that music could be written, 536 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: you know, all the way through in the an A 537 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: side and a B side, Like there was a reason 538 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: that those five songs there, the other five songs were there, 539 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: and how they connected. Yes, I love that. Well, first 540 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: of all, I love your accent, your son, whatever you're 541 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: impression in him. You know, he gets very annoyed because 542 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: he doesn't really talk like this anymore, but he did 543 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: his whole life. I have video to prove that. He 544 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: always sounded like a tiny bookie from the Catskills. Amazing, amazing. Yeah, 545 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. With the sequencing of 546 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: an album. I completely lost my mind trying to sequence 547 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: this record. But yeah, I took months. It took months, 548 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: and it ultimately cut a couple of songs. That's the 549 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: hardest thing. That is like killing something you love. Yeah, 550 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Nowadays, like you can put 551 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: them out and put them out as a couple of songs, 552 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: so it's not a big deal, but it feels like 553 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: maybe it's a thankless job. With its bonny light Horseman music. 554 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: We're we're all like obsessed with the album and the 555 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: A side and the B side and you know, how 556 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: are they connected? Yeah, what's the narrative arc of things? 557 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: Let alone, you know, here's the banjo on this one, 558 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: and the syclophone and this one and this isn't key 559 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: of C and this isn't you know, you can't have 560 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: two sees following each other. Well, this one cap, but 561 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: it's like, but it does go after that, Well it can't. 562 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: Then you gotta put it in a different key because yeah, 563 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: all of those battles so tricky. But also nowadays, like 564 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: because of the algorithms, like people may not hear the 565 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: music in the order that you put it on the record. 566 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: Like basically whatever is popular will then rise to the top, 567 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: and that might be the first song people here it is. 568 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, that's what the algorithm does. So this 569 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: whole notion of it really was like one, two, three, 570 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: four five, Like that's the order. I do like doing 571 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: that with people's records and seeing what they I've really 572 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: tried to do that with a new record. No, I'm 573 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: the same, I'm the same. It's special when songs can 574 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: speak to each other, and a lot of times they do. 575 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: What person, place, or experience has most altered your life. 576 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: The person that leaps to mind is my grandma. My 577 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: parents had a house, and then my grandparents also when 578 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: they were alive, had a house on the same land. 579 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: And now this is in aside. But my brother's family 580 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: has a house on this farm, and we have recently 581 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,959 Speaker 1: left New York City and we're living in Vermontain. We're 582 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: going to renovate my grandparents house and move into it. 583 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: So it's kind of a full circle moment for us. 584 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: But this house, my grandparents house, Like I spent a 585 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: lot of time down there. It's literally my happy place. 586 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: Like when I was getting ready to give birth for 587 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: the first time, I did like a hypno birthing class, 588 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, and they're like, what is your happy place? 589 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: And I thought my grandma's house, And I'm picture myself 590 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: like laying on the floor with like a son beam 591 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: coming in like a carpeted floor, and the sun coming 592 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: in the sliding glass door. My grandma was an incredibly 593 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: creative woman that wasn't an artist per se. You know. 594 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: She's a homemaker mostly and a sort of community member. 595 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: And she was a quilter, she made quilts, and amazing cook, 596 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: amazing entertainer. She wrote letters every morning. So in the pandemic, 597 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: we fled from New York. I was pregnant with our 598 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: second baby. We had the baby on this farm, and 599 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: then we moved into my grandma's house and I found 600 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: a box full of old like letters from my grandma 601 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: and read them and amazing eye for detail, like it 602 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: was always so and so was wearing this type of fabric, 603 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, and the or dervs were like this, and 604 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: like this type of bird is hanging out in the 605 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,719 Speaker 1: tree like really and eye for detail. But there are 606 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: two ways in which she really set me on a path. 607 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: One was that she and my grandpa would travel a lot. 608 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: My granddad was retired, but he was consulting. He was 609 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: like a solar energy guy back in the day, you 610 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: know before where it was cool, so he was he 611 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: would be flying around. They go into like Europe, and 612 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: they would go to China and Australia, and my grandma 613 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: would go you know with him, and they would bring 614 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: me back things from wherever they were, and there always 615 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: was this value of like any chance you can travel, 616 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: you get to do it. Like they sort of instilled 617 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: like a wanderlust that I think as I actually was 618 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: pretty formative for me in terms of like becoming a 619 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: touring musician. And the other thing they did is that 620 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,719 Speaker 1: they brought me home, I think from China this tiny 621 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: size violin when I was seven years old. I had 622 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: seen a woman in my elementary school in a beautiful dress. 623 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: She came with a gown and she played the violin, 624 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: and I thought, this is I'm going to play the violin. 625 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: And they brought home this I think one eighth size 626 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: little red violin, and then they paid for my violin 627 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: lessons as a child, and I would even go to 628 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: their house in the morning to practice, like before I 629 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: went to school. So eventually I gave up the violin 630 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: and I picked up the guitar and I started to 631 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: write songs. And you know, I don't think of the 632 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: violin as any part really of my music reality now, 633 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: but as a formative instrument, like just to be living 634 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: with that kind of melodic music, it was pretty huge 635 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: for me. So I think the gift of that violin 636 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: and the lessons in the space to practice it, because actually, 637 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: no parent wants a kid to be learning violin in 638 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: their house, you know, you're terrible for years. And then 639 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: the travel, I think, like, certainly I became someone really 640 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: just I wanted to tour around and play music, and 641 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: so I thank her for that. Oh my god, how 642 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: lovely stringed instruments and wander lust that's pretty crazy good combination. Really, 643 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: I cannot thank you enough for coming and answering all 644 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: these questions so fun. What an amazing format. I'm like 645 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: really impressed. It was totally fascinating to hear like Tony 646 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: Blair and Alan coming, like just amazing variety of people 647 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: and minds. And you know, I'm just at the beginning 648 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: of doing a bunch of interviews for the record and 649 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: putting out and it's like usually so boring, like this 650 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: is no way to get access to something fresh. You know, 651 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm dying to hear your next record. Amazing. So I'm 652 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: so excited for this to be out in the world. 653 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: I bet you are too. I mean, you know, you've 654 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: been doing a lot of giving birth well done. Thanks 655 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: and knows. His new self titled album is out now, 656 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: featuring the song's bright Star, Brooklyn Bridge, and many more. 657 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: You could also see Haydestown on Broadway Now or on tour. 658 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: Mini Questions is hosted and written by me Mini Driver, 659 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Levoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. 660 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by 661 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,719 Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman. Executive produced by Me Mini Driver Special thanks 662 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Castella 663 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: and Nick Oppenheim at w kPr DE La Pescadore, Kate 664 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support 665 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: Henry Driver