1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning Club. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 2: Morning Everybody. It's DJ en Vy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne, the 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: guy we are the Breakfast Club. He got a special 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: guest in the building. 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 3: They call him Big Ellie. 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: The reason I don't want to messing your last name 7 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 2: is my style. 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: It's miss Stall rhymes with Chris Stall and made that up. 9 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: Your kids used to say Ellie rhymes with jelly. I 10 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: didn't like that at all. 11 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: So welcome new book out, Bad law Man. 12 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 4: First of all, Ellie, you know you're one of my 13 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 4: favorite people to listen to. 14 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: I love reading your work in the nation. 15 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 4: I started reading a lot more of your stuff a 16 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 4: few years ago when I realized the Constitution didn't mean 17 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 4: much okay anymore? Right, So so the people, I'm glad 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 4: you're here. What got you into studying constitutional law? 19 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: Well, I went to law school and I hated it. 20 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: I went to Harvard Law School, and you know, part 21 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: of the legal training is like they say that they're 22 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: going to make you think like a lawyer. Right, So 23 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: what that means is that they take the way you think, 24 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: which was fine to me, and they break you and 25 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: then they try to build you back up. In this 26 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: new like legal way of understanding the world. And I 27 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: just never accepted the training. I like, at every point 28 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: when you're telling me that, like, oh, well, this is 29 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: how it's always been done, I'm always like by the 30 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: slavers and I should care about that? Why? And just 31 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: so was a constant while I was in law school, 32 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: like back and forth in terms of my professors trying 33 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: to kind of push me in a certain box and 34 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: me resisting that box and not you know, not all 35 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: of my professors. One of my professors was current Supreme 36 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: Court Justice Elena Kagan. She was great, right, but I 37 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: would go to her office hours and be like, why 38 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: is this like this? And she would say Thurgod Marshall 39 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: once said, It's like, I don't give a damn what 40 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Thurgood said. He was talking for a different time, what 41 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: about our time? And so these are the conversations I 42 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: had all the time, and that led to my first 43 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: book and certainly my career in general. 44 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 4: And that's why you feel like all laws before in 45 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 4: nineteen sixty five should be deemed unconstitution. 46 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: I said, presumptively on constitutional, which is a legal dodge 47 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: on I'm trying to lawyer my way around that. But 48 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: my fundamental premise is that before the nineteen sixty five 49 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act, which I think is the most important 50 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: piece of legislation ever passed in American history, this was 51 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: functionally apartheid country. Not everybody who lived here could vote here, 52 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: Not everybody who lived here could participate in the government. Here. 53 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: The majority of people who lived here, if you think 54 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: about not just black people, but also Latinos and also women, 55 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: couldn't actually participate in the government. What do you call that. 56 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: We have a word for that. It's that word is apartheid. 57 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: And so if you're now going to say that we 58 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: pass some law before everybody had a say, before everybody 59 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: had a vote, and that law it should still be 60 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: controlling today, I say, hell no, Right, it's like Roy 61 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: Breaker from Lockstock, Right, if the milk sour, I ain't 62 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: the type of pussy to drink it. Right, So, if 63 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: you're going to go all the way back before everybody 64 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: had a vote, I'm saying that, presumptively speaking, that law 65 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: should mean nothing. Now, I'm not saying that you get 66 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: rid of every single law passed before nineteen sixty five. 67 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: Some of them I quite like, like the nineteen sixty 68 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: four Civil Rights Act, and that was a good law. 69 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: I also like the Sherman Anti Trust Act. I like 70 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: a lot of laws that were passed before nineteen sixty five. 71 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: But my argument is that if we liked the law, 72 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: we could pass it again. We could pass it again, 73 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: this time asking everybody. And for that example, I didn't 74 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: make that up myself. Right. The example that I'm using 75 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: here is what they did in South Africa. Right when 76 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: South Africa got over apartheid. Did they just go back 77 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: to their africaner racist constitution and be like, Oh, we 78 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: just need a couple of amendments, we just need a 79 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: couple of changes here to make a work. No, they 80 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: threw the whole thing out and started again, this time 81 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: asking everybody, this time having a completely new delegation of 82 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: all of the people of South Africa, not just the 83 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: white folks, but not no white folks, and they came 84 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: up with a new constitutions. One of the reasons why 85 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: the South African constitution is generally thought of as one 86 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: of the best constitutions in the world and ours continues 87 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: to be a piece of crap. 88 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: So what laws would you kick out immediately? What laws 89 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: are you saying it needs to get the fuck out 90 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: of you. 91 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the first one I have in my book 92 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: is that I want to eliminate every single voter registration law. 93 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: All of them, all of them in every state, are bad. Right. 94 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: That's different from voter eligibility. Right, We, I think, can 95 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: all agree that there should be eligibility requirements, like an 96 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: age requirement. Right, you have to be eighteen to vote. Ye, 97 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: I might say sixteen, but I'm not going to say eight. Right, 98 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: I got an eight year old. We don't want. No, 99 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: they're not ready for that. Right, That's a voter eligibility requirement. 100 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: But once, once you're eligible, there's no reason for you 101 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: to have to pre register in order to execute your franchise. 102 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: If you're eligible to vote, you should just be able 103 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: to rock up to the polls and vote. Again. I 104 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: didn't make that up. That's what they do in nearly 105 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: every other democracy, and nearly every other democracy either has 106 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: mandatory registration, automatic registration, or same day registration. What we 107 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: do with this bull crap of like having to show 108 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: up ten days before, a month before in some places, 109 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: in order to pre register before you're allot, we're alone 110 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: basically in the modern world in terms of people who 111 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: do that, So we could just get rid of all 112 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: of them. We could just get rid of all of them. 113 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: And the people will say like, oh, well, we can't 114 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: do that because of voter fraud. Right. Well, first of all, 115 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: and I know this is going to be hard for 116 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: some listeners who spend a lot of time listening to 117 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: Republican lies. But voter fraud does not exist. 118 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,559 Speaker 3: I love how you broke that down in the book. Found. 119 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: Please, voter fraud just doesn't exist. It's not a real thing. 120 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: We shouldn't make laws based on protecting us from things 121 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: that don't exist. 122 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: Right. 123 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: An analogy I've made is like, if let's say I 124 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: want to go fishing. I want to go fishing that 125 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: leg the government says, nah, you can't fish there, And 126 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: I say why They say, because the next months that 127 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: might get you get on my face with that. Shut up, 128 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: that's stupid. We're not going to restrict my right to 129 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: fish because of a thing that doesn't exist. So that's 130 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: number one. But number two. Republicans keep saying we need 131 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: voter ID. The voter ID is the thing that secures 132 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: our election, that protects us from voter fraud. And I 133 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: call their bluff. I'm like, all right, you want voter ID. Fine, 134 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: let's make a deal. Remember how this country used to 135 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: actually make deals in order to move forward. Let's make 136 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: a deal. I'll give you your voter ID. It's got 137 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: to be national, it's got to be free, because if 138 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: it's not free, it violates the twenty fourth Amendments prohibition 139 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: on poll taxes. But you give me a free national 140 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: I'll give you a free national voter ID, and you 141 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: give me automatic registration of every eligible voter that is 142 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: also portable between either in the states or between the states. 143 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: Portable means if I move, I don't have to reregister, 144 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: my registration follows me. I don't have to follow my registration. 145 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: You give me that deal, I will give you your ID card. 146 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: Who says no, and I promise you the people who 147 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: say no are the Republicans, are the ones who claim 148 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: that voter ID is necessary to secure our election because 149 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: their goal is not to secure elections, because again, voter 150 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: fraud doesn't exist. Their goal is to restrict people from voting. 151 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: So if I say, hey, we're gonna fix your fake 152 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: fraud problem, but we're gonna let a lot more people 153 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: have a lot easier access to voting. Republicans are the 154 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: ones that are like, oh no, that's not yes, but 155 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: not like that right, it's so so again, if they 156 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: were serious about voter I d there is a deal 157 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: on the table that we could make, and they're the 158 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: ones who don't want to make it. And that goes through, 159 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: as I'm sure you guys know, through so many issues 160 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: in this country where Republicans claim that there's a problem 161 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: and Democrats and I got a lot of smoke in 162 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: the book for Democrats, but generally Democrats are like, Okay, 163 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: let's make a deal, and Republicans like, we don't want 164 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: the deal. We want the issue. We don't want to 165 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: fix it. We want people to be pissed that it 166 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: isn't fixed. And that's what Republicans keep doing, as opposed 167 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: to actually making a deal with Democrats who are always 168 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: willing to fold and trade and whatever, and so we 169 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: don't even fix any things. We just keep being pissed 170 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: about things that aren't fixed. 171 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 4: Well, question, do you feel like all elections have been 172 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 4: free and fair? Because people will say Democrats will say 173 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 4: the twenty sixteen election was stolen, and then some will 174 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 4: say they feel like this one was stolen. 175 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Big picture, we haven't had a single free, fair election 176 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: in this country ever ever, because we've never had an 177 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: election in this country. This goes back to my point. 178 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 1: We've never had an election in this country where everybody 179 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: who was eligible to vote or should be eligible to vote, 180 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: could easily go and vote. So I would say it's 181 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: never actually been free and fair in terms of the 182 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: particulars and the current What was rigged, what wasn't rigged, whatever. Look, 183 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: Trump lost in twenty twenty and he won in twenty 184 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: twenty four. I don't like that he won in twenty 185 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: twenty four, but he both got the most popular votes. 186 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: Ninety million people stayed home, but he got the most 187 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: popular votes of the people who bothered to show up. 188 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: And I believe the election happened as fairly as we 189 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: do in this country. 190 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 4: What do you think about his executive Orders on elections 191 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 4: that he just recently signed. 192 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: Oh, this is all his National ID crap. And if 193 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: you look at his version of National ID, think about 194 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: the things that he won't do that I just said 195 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: that we could do for National ID. He won't make 196 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: it free. He literally is talking about IDs that people 197 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: have to pay for. And while that might not be 198 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: a lot of money to people like you and me, 199 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: that's a lot of money to somebody. And it's a 200 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: regressive tax that means, like it's a heart, it's a 201 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: larger percentage of your funds the lower the less money 202 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: you have. Right, So, first of all, he's not making 203 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: it For a second of all, he's not making it national. 204 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: So he's putting in a system where like Alabama or 205 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Mississippi can have one kind of ID requirement, but Wisconsin 206 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: and New York can have another kind of idea requirement. 207 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: And we can imagine just how worse it'll be, how 208 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: much harder it will be for certain kinds of people 209 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: to get IDs in Alabama or Mississippi versus New York 210 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: or California. Right, So he's not making a national fixed 211 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: the problem, and he's trying to give the specter that 212 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: this is somehow tied to making sure that people are citizens. 213 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: Citizens already non citizens already can't vote. And there has 214 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: again not been any evidence produced by any of these 215 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: people that we have a significant or even a minor 216 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: portion of non citizens actually trying to vote. Again, it 217 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: just doesn't happen, and certainly doesn't happen to the numbers 218 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: that would be necessary to like flip an election. Right, 219 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: but that, But he's not again, he's not interested in 220 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: fixing the problem. He's interested in keeping people angry and 221 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: pissed off about the problem. 222 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 4: We're talking to Elimus Style, a new book out now, 223 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 4: Bad Law tend popular laws that are ruining America. And 224 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 4: you talk about chapter three, Ah, who gave away the 225 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 4: skies to the airline? 226 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: Now, I just want you to know, Jess and myself, 227 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: we're reading some of your chapter titles. Yes, we love him. 228 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: We got to go through a lot of them. There's 229 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: a couple that debt me and know we're talking. We 230 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: would like these would be good if we won. 231 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: But go Do you all life flying? 232 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: Yes? 233 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: You love flying? You like flying? I hate flying. It 234 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: is like the worst. It is always the worst day 235 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: of my life. Well, I'm fat, so I gotta I 236 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: gotta squeeze myself into a small ass. They ain't built 237 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: for me. I got somebody's you know, seat back right 238 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: into my lap. I can't eat nothing right. I gotta 239 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: get the most embarrassing moment of my life every time 240 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: I have to do it. Man, I'm gonna have a 241 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: seat bullocks, I'm a fatty please, and then right, and 242 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: then I like cry on the inside. Right, the food's expensive, 243 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: the liquor sucks, the service sucks. I'm always delayed, my 244 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: bags get lost. It is miserable. Jesus Right, I'm gonna 245 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: fly ascard. Whenever I can, I drive. I'm not even 246 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm not whatever. Whenever I can I drive, And I 247 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: know that's bad for the environment, but like whenever I 248 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: if I'm doing East Coast. That's why my agent's like, 249 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, if you want Ellie kind of of the Hudson, 250 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 1: it's like one price, and if you want me to 251 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: get on a plane, it's a whole different price. Right, 252 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: yesterday's price is not today's price. If I got across 253 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: by gotta got on a plane. But anyway, it didn't 254 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 1: always used to be this way. Flying used to be awesome, 255 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: spacious seats, good service, kind people, and they weren't nickel 256 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: and diming you at every point. And what the reason 257 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: why it used to be great and now it's not 258 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: is this thing called deregulation, the idea The airline industry 259 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 1: used to be one of the most heavily regulated industries 260 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: in the country. That makes a lot of sense because 261 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: we're putting metal in the sky and hoping it comes 262 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: down at a survivable rate. That's crazy. So it used 263 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: to be one of the most heavily regulated industries in 264 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,599 Speaker 1: the country with literal price fixing. Literally they could the 265 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: government set the maximum price that you could charge for 266 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: certain routes. And I know Conservatives, Republicans, even a lot 267 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: of Democrats like price fixing. That's terrible. That stops innovation. 268 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: Oh it doesn't. It makes flying a public service, and 269 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: it makes it easy for people to get around the country. 270 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: FDR thought it was a war plan. Thought it was 271 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: part of our mobilization plan for war to have reliable, 272 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: cheap and accessible commercial airflight. Right, Democrats and Republicans gave 273 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: this guise away literally two corporate raiders in the nineteen seventies. Now, 274 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: when I started researching this book, I actually assumed that 275 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: this was a Ronald Reagan program because most you know, 276 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't know about your process. My process is usually like, 277 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: if I see something bad, show me the Republicans, right, 278 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: show me what Reagan did, because I'm sure it's as 279 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: fucked me And there's always a mustache trailing Republican You 280 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: know behind every curtain, but for this particular issue, this 281 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: Republican plan to deregulate the airlines and let corporate, let 282 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: the market decide how we fly as opposed to the 283 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: government that was spearheaded by the Democrats. And as I 284 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: did the research, Democrats that we all know kept coming up, 285 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy huge in this deregulation, Stephen Bryer, 286 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: one of the Democratic appointees to the Supreme Court. For 287 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: a long time, there were all of these Democrats that 288 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: like sucked, got sucked in. Ralph Nader right, got sucked 289 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: into the gospel of deregulation. And once they did it, 290 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: once the Republicans, I would say, snowjob the Democrats into 291 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: this thing. The first thing that happened when they give 292 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: away the airlines is the thing that that has killed 293 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. From my entire lifetime, the Airline Deregulation 294 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: Act came out in nineteen seventy eight. I was born 295 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen six seventy eight. From my entire lifeline labor 296 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: got gut it. Airline jobs used to be good jobs. 297 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: Baggage handlers and flight attendants and pilots. Pilots used to 298 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: be one of the best jobs you could get, and 299 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: with market forces, with deregulation, those good jobs got slashed, right, 300 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: And then you go into the Reagan era where Reagan's 301 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: like social safety net, here's a big ol' hole. I'm 302 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: cutting in your social safety neck. And people fell from 303 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: good middle class jobs straight through down to the bottom. 304 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: And they've never forgiven the Democrats for it. See that's 305 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: the that's the thing that that I think the Democratic 306 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: Party didn't kind of realize when you cut labor. Labor 307 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: used to vote for Democrats consistently, right, not just black labor, 308 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: white labor, this white working class laborers used to vote 309 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: for Democrats. But once the market controlled everything, Democrats weren't 310 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: helping them. And that's how they became I believe it's 311 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: part of the reason why they became obsessed with their 312 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: cultural issues as opposed to their economic issues, because they 313 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: felt like they weren't gonna get ahead economically anyway. Right. 314 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: If you tell people like you're not gonna get head economically, 315 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna be poor, you're gonna be struggling, but you're 316 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: gonna be better off than that black person over there, 317 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: they're gonna be like, Okay, sign me up Trump Like, 318 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: that's that's how it happens. You get you tell white 319 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: folks that they're gonna have nothing, but they're gonna have 320 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: a little a little bit more than black folks, and 321 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: white folks will sign up for. 322 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 4: Yet a rich white man is convinced the poor white 323 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 4: man that the liberal white man has taking all this 324 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 4: shit and giving it the niggas. 325 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: And that's not true, and it's just straight up not true. 326 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: But this act, this particular law that I write about, 327 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: is one of the first times where the Democrats, where 328 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party played ball with the Republicans. And I 329 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: say that it's one of the biggest mistakes of the 330 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: Democrats for the past fifty years. And if you understand 331 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: how they make that mistake, you can understand how they've 332 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: made pretty much every mistake they've made since right, because 333 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: the same problem. It's the same giving to the market 334 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: what should be a government service. I understand that people 335 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: don't like the government. I understand that people think the 336 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: government is inefficient. I don't like the government. I don't 337 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: like interacting with government forces. But as opposed to the market. See, 338 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: people say you can vote with your wallet. Nah, the 339 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: person with the biggest wallet can vote the most when 340 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: you're in the market. If you're in the government, then 341 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: my vote technically counts just as much as yours, right, 342 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: And that's the huge difference. So when you give away 343 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: government services to the market, what you are doing, Democrats 344 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: is giving away my power to affect change in my 345 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: own life, right, And that's that's the problem. It's like 346 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: the difference between going sending your kids to a school 347 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: and sending your kids to a factory. Right. If you 348 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: send them to school, I have a vote, I have 349 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: a say and how that school is running, what my 350 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: kids should be taught, and how they should be treated. 351 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: If you send if I send my kids to the factory, 352 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: all I gotta say is in their paycheck? Right, And 353 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm using child labor because Trump wants to do. 354 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 3: That now too. 355 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: You had, of course chapter nine, No, it's ten no, okay, 356 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: chapter nine? 357 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 5: Well, actually, why can't we say gay? What are we 358 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 5: supposed to say? 359 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: So? You know, as I'm sure most of your listeners 360 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: are aware of, I could have written the whole book 361 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: just bad law in Florida, like you can't. It is 362 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: going gone through the Florida like this is terrible? Is 363 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: there This is just racist, This is stupid. Right. I 364 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: focused on the Florida don't Say Gay law because it 365 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: is so particularly oppressive and stupid. The law says that 366 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: you cannot teach about gender difference, sexuality differences, transgender issues. 367 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: You can't say any of those words to school children. Right. 368 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: And if you talk to certain kinds of conservatives, they 369 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: are like, what's fine is why does a third grader 370 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: need to learn about gay people? Why can't they just 371 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: learn about reading writing? Right? And I'm like, do y'all 372 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: have third graders? Like I got a twelve year old 373 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: and a nine year old? Right, they talk about all 374 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: this stuff. They're they're not in a kind of lascivious 375 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: sexual way, but they're interested in who in how these 376 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: things were? Right? 377 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 4: How did it would they be if they weren't taught 378 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 4: about it in school showing it on television? Yea? 379 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: Because they just see it in their daily lives. 380 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 3: Right. 381 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: And so I use the example if I if I'm 382 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: a school teacher and i'm you know, I've got my 383 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: wife and I have a picture or me and my 384 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: wife on my desk at school. The kids see that 385 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: it's me and my wife, that it's a man and 386 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: a woman. Right, If I'm a gay school teacher and 387 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: I have a picture of me and my husband on 388 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,959 Speaker 1: the desk, they see that that's different. They see that 389 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: it's a man and a man, and they might have 390 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: a question about that. And in Florida, I'm not allowed 391 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: to say why. And so you act like it. People 392 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: act like it's neutral, but it's not. It is what's 393 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: the scholars call heteronormative. It's pushing the man and the woman. 394 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: That's the normal way of doing it. And the man 395 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: and the man or the woman and woman. That's just 396 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: crazy and weird when you could just say, like, oh, 397 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: that's my husband. Anyway, back to math. 398 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: So what do you think about you know, Trump's transgender 399 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 2: of Bill Ware. It's just two genders this Dandieva. What 400 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 2: is your thoughts on that? 401 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: It's again biologically, it's not true. There are people who 402 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 1: are different. That's just a biological fact. We can pretend 403 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: people think that. 404 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: The biological or neurological man. 405 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 4: I don't know, because I said, because you can think 406 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 4: you're in the wrong body. But I'm not going if 407 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 4: that's not biologically defect man biologically as men and women. 408 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: I know, I don't think that's right. I think that 409 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: there are I again. 410 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: Is something other than a man and women. 411 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: As I see now, you're you're pushing me into you're 412 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: getting me away from the law. 413 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: But I'm just asking, as. 414 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: I understand it, there are people who are born with 415 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: female hormones in male bodies, right or vice versa, and 416 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: they want to express how they feel inside as opposed 417 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: to how they look on the outside. But I think 418 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: the larger point is not just that I don't know. 419 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: The larger point is I don't care. It's not me. 420 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: I'm the way that I am, right, I don't care 421 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: how it doesn't affect me just somebody else being in 422 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: trans doesn't make me think, hum man, maybe I should 423 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: maybe I should be trands. I always wanted to wear 424 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 1: nice hats like that's not like, that's not how my whatever. 425 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: I tell a story in the in the book about 426 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: in my kids class, one of one of the kids 427 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: in my younger kids class came out as a boy 428 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: after being a girl I want to say, eight, okay, 429 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: And you know, the parents were just like, how does 430 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: one really how is that? The kids were just like, yeah, whatever, 431 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: it's Ramsey's now. It used to be Cleopatra. It's Ramseys now, 432 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: but he's cool. 433 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 5: And then if I'm your mom, I'm like, no, I 434 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 5: named you fucking Corey. How are you just gonna come 435 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 5: up and be Shakira today? 436 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: But about that, but that's between that's between Ramseys and 437 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: and his mom and the mom. That's not between me 438 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: and that's not that's not between the school and the kids. 439 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: I don't have a say the school call them or her. 440 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Because if your MoMA named 441 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 2: you Corey, and now you say, and I don't want 442 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: to be called Corey. I want to be called Shamik. Now, 443 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 2: the school is supposed to call you man. 444 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: I go to My kids go to a progressive school, 445 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: where like if my kid came in and said I 446 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: want to be called ketch Up today, they would call 447 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: him ketch up for like they would just they would 448 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,239 Speaker 1: call him what the kid wants to be called. And 449 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: I think that's just the natural thing to do. If 450 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: somebody comes and tells you their name, you say their 451 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: name right. You don't say, actually you're cash is Clay. No, 452 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: you say you want to be Muhammad Ali today, guess 453 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: what you get to be Mohamad al. 454 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 2: That kid go to school and say I'm Batman, they 455 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: gonna call you kid batman. 456 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: They're gonna call my kid back. 457 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 4: But see, I think that's a little different. We're talking 458 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 4: about his name. Yeah, because if I say, yes, this 459 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,959 Speaker 4: is my name, you call me my name. But if 460 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 4: I say I am ketchup and I just stand still 461 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 4: when dogs. 462 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: Come around. 463 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 4: Coming on my head, that's just a little different. 464 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't see. I disagree. I don't think Ramsey's does 465 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: anything different in school now that he's Ramsey than he 466 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: did when he was Cleopatra. I don't think that there's 467 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: any doesn't learn differently, doesn't go to. 468 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 4: Doesn't go in a different bathroom, might start going to 469 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 4: other women, which make women uncomfortable. 470 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: The kids a. 471 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 5: Uncomfortable yeah, the other eight year old girls, all right, 472 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 5: they're only eight. 473 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: Do you do you know how uncomfortable kids are in 474 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: bathrooms as they hit puberty generally. 475 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 5: So now you sing a little boy, yeah, but now 476 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 5: private stall until you got to walk past the sink. Dudes, 477 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 5: you get and it's like. 478 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 3: What you're doing. 479 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 2: You have daughters and sons, sons, all right, so your 480 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 2: sons will not get naked in front of your wife 481 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: and other women. But he will do it in front 482 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 2: of you, correct if you have to change or if 483 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 2: it's something like that. Now, imagine a girl going into 484 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 2: a boy's bathroom where urinal. He's gonna feel uncomfortable, gonna 485 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 2: make him feel awko, don't you think. 486 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 5: And even more uncomfortable than he would then you know. 487 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: So we were at city Field and my boy going 488 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: to the urinal and my boy just drops trout, doesn't 489 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: use the fly, doesn't like, just drops, just drops, trow 490 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: to his ankles and just takes a peed. Now I 491 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: was uncomfortable. I was like, that's that? How was you raised? 492 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: Oh wait, that was me right, And like maybe you 493 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: should pull you know when you do go? Why it's 494 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: my butt? Why I was peeing? 495 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 3: And I was like, he sounds like your son. 496 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 1: That's a fair point, right, Like people will get over it, 497 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: people will learn. And again we're all we're talking about 498 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: this from the perspective of making things more comfortable for 499 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: the heteronormative kids in the school, we also should be 500 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: talking about this in terms of making things more comfortable 501 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: for the trans kids in the school. Because as much 502 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: as we might say it might be uncomfortable for the 503 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: trans girl in the girl's bathroom for the other girls, 504 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: imagine how uncomfortable it is for the trans girl in 505 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: the boys bathroom as they hit people. And we know, 506 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: and again this is not me making up. We know 507 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: statistically speaking, that trans women are the most likely people 508 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: to be brutalized, to be murdered, to be beaten up, 509 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: to be victims of domestic violence in this country. So 510 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: if you're telling me that we can potentially save some 511 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: trans kids from that fate, and the cost is that 512 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: some girls have to be a little bit uncomfortable in 513 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: a bathroom out of high school, that is a trade 514 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: that I am willing to make them. That is a 515 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: trade that I think society should be wing them. 516 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,239 Speaker 4: I respect everybody's right to live, but I don't want 517 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 4: to have this conversation no more like what you said 518 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 4: earlier is true. 519 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 3: I don't care I lost the last election. 520 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 5: It's nice one of your favorite people you like to 521 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 5: listen to them. 522 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: Only can just get back to the lodges really quickly, Please, 523 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: just very closely on the law of this. The idea 524 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: that we can discriminate against trans people but nobody else 525 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense legally, right If we're going to have 526 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: a law that treats everybody equal under the law, then 527 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: we have to treat trans people with the same kind 528 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: of respect and decency that we treat everybody else. And 529 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,719 Speaker 1: once you start trying to poke holes in that, you 530 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: see they're not stopping at trans. They're going right togay, 531 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: they're going right to all these other things. Right the 532 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: chapter it says the chapter we can't now, we can't 533 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,239 Speaker 1: say trans. Now, we can't say say all these other things. Right. 534 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: So again, from a legal standpoint, a quality. 535 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 3: To drop your trousers, just be right here. We're not 536 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: uncomfortable at all. 537 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: That's what we gotta be revolved. Right. So yeah, so 538 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: just legally speaking, the easiest thing in the law is 539 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: just to treat everybody. 540 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 4: Gotcha, Why are people so nonchalantly, nonchalantly discussing Trump getting 541 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 4: a third term? 542 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: M well, here's the thing. He can't constitutionally. But what 543 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: he can't do and what he can do are two 544 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: very different thing. That's right, right, If you understand that 545 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: we live in a fascist dictatorship and we do, this 546 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: is what it feels like. I know that the New 547 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: York Times hasn't said today fascism started, but like it started, right, 548 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: this is we are now living in a fascist dictatorship. 549 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: And so when you tell the fascist dictator, hey, you 550 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: can't do this legally, ah, I might be right, but 551 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: he might not care. So if you're asking me about 552 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: the law, no, there is at the twenty second Amendment 553 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: is ironclad on this issue. There is no wiggle room. 554 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: You cannot serve. You cannot be elected president more than twice, 555 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if your terms were consecutive or non consecutive. 556 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: They were very clear at what they wanted to do 557 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: when they wrote that amendment. It's one of the most 558 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: clear amendments in the entire Constitution that said Trump is 559 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: a fascist dictator and if he look, bro my man 560 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: lost the twenty twenty election and attacked the capital and 561 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: came this close to overturning that election. Right, so, who's 562 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: to say that he can't do it again? Who's to 563 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: say that he can't be successful in doing it the 564 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: next time? Right? Like, So we can't blithely say that 565 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: he can't do something just because he's legally prevented from 566 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: doing something. He's already shown he doesn't actually give a 567 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: damn about what he's legally prevented. From doing so. Can 568 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: I make a case for how he'll do it? Sure? 569 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: I can make. I I like to say one of 570 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: the things that makes me a little bit of a 571 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: different legal commentator than a lot of others is that 572 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,719 Speaker 1: I understand what white people are capable of. I've never 573 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: forgotten love white people are capable of in this country. 574 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: And if you want to tell me that Trump is 575 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: going to run for a third term and has a 576 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: way to win it, I can tell you how he 577 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: does it. He gets himself because remember, we don't have 578 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: one federal election system in this country. We have fifty. 579 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: So all he has to do is get himself on 580 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: the ballot in red states that are already capitulating to 581 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: him enough red states to get to two hundred and 582 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: seventy votes. The ballot process is controlled by the states, 583 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: not by the federal government. You can say, well, he 584 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: shouldn't be kicked off the ballot, but he should have 585 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: been kicked off the ballot last time because he was 586 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment. Whether the Supreme Court do, 587 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: oh no, we shouldn't decide such things, it should be 588 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: up to this Fourteenth Amendment. He should have been kicked 589 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: off last time, but the Supreme Court didn't step in. 590 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: Will they step in next time? I don't know. 591 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 2: So what Al Shopton and everybody's saying is BS that 592 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 2: that can't happen. 593 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: That's true, it can No, it's not byes. It can't 594 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: happen legally. But let's not fool ourselves to think that 595 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: Trump is not willing to act illegally. Right, he can 596 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: illegally get himself on the ballot, he can illegally get 597 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: himself to some version of two hundred and seventy votes, 598 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: and he can illegally declare that he is still the president. 599 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: And who's gonna check him? Boo? Who's going to actually 600 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: stop him from doing that? 601 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 3: It won't be the Supreme Court. 602 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 4: I love the article you wrote for The Nation call 603 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 4: it's impossible to overstate the damnage done by the Supreme Court. 604 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 3: Do you think the Supreme Court would back him in 605 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 3: something like that? 606 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. 607 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 2: Wow. 608 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 1: Not only do I not know that they would back him. 609 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: If they don't, I don't know that he would follow 610 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: their order. There's been no evidence that Trump is going 611 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: to follow a Supreme Court order that he doesn't like. 612 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: And more to the point, there's been absolutely no evidence 613 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: that he's going to enforce a Supreme Court order on 614 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: the co President Elon Musk that he doesn't want. So, 615 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: even if the Supreme Court stands up to him, and 616 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: I'm putting that in air quotes, there's no evidence that 617 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: he'll actually listen to them. Because he control anything that 618 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: he controls the physical power of. And I think people 619 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: really have to understand this in a kind of chest 620 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: thumping way, like if he physically controls it, because he 621 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: physically controls the army, he physically controls the power military, 622 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,479 Speaker 1: he physically controls the secret police. If he physically can 623 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: control something, he doesn't have to listen to nobody. The 624 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: legal illegal doesn't actually matter to him if he has 625 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: physical control. Now, if he only has control because he's 626 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: got to get other people to do his bidding in 627 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: the states, in the localities, that's a place where the 628 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: Supreme Court can kind of step in and maybe show 629 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: some spine. 630 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 3: Right. 631 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: So if you think about these lawsuits that he has 632 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: in New York against like Kathy Hochel, if is a 633 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: situation where like he has to force Kathy Hockel to 634 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: do something, and Kafy Hochel says no, and the Supreme 635 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: Court says no, Well, then I don't think Trump can't 636 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: force her to do it unless he's literally willing to 637 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: put you boots on the g which he might, but 638 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, then we'd have some real traffic problems in forty. 639 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: But if it's something that he has complete physical control over, 640 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: I see no evidence of him actually following the Supreme 641 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: Court order. 642 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 4: What do you say to people who say, is it 643 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 4: really a fascist dictatorship? If this is what people voted for, 644 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 4: the people will say this, that was democracy working. 645 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: People voted for Hitler, Yeah, people voted for Franco, people 646 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: voted for Pinochet. Fascist dictators are always popular. That's how 647 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: they get to be fascist, right, And it never has 648 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: to happen to a lot of people. That's not how 649 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: they stay in power. It just has to happen to 650 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: enough people to make everybody else fear it could happen 651 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: to them. That's how fascism has always worked. It's never 652 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: been the I read a book. Adam Surer from the 653 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: Atlantic made me read a book recently called They Thought 654 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: They Were Free? And it's about it's like written about 655 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: Germans in the nineteen fifties, and it kind of goes 656 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: back to how all the free Germans who we call 657 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: Nazis now didn't think they were part of a Nazi 658 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: fascist US. They thought they were just normal citizens in 659 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: their country. They didn't know they were under a dictatorship 660 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: in real time. Because for most people, their lives don't 661 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: have to change. Most people can keep doing whatever they 662 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: were Most people, whatever they were doing on November fourth, 663 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: they could still do on November sixth. The election didn't 664 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: change their lives because it never changes most people's lives, 665 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: because then they would get pissed off. It only has 666 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: to happen to a few people. It only happens to 667 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: a smaller sect, especially a sect that this country that 668 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: people think are deserving of cruelty and shame and a 669 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: lack of dignity. You know, whether it's trans people or 670 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: new immigrants or whatever, people who think deserve black people 671 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: deserve to get the boot up the ass. That's who 672 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: it happens to. I'm a good person. Doesn't have to 673 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: happen to me. That's how fascism always work. Look, guys, 674 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: we live in a country where you can get snatched 675 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: up off the street for writing an article in the 676 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: newspaper and as a person who writes articles and newspapers. 677 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: This is something that has really worried me and really 678 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: changed and affected how I think about my job and 679 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: my life. And we can say, wha, we happened to 680 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: greenaw card holders? Yet now so far? How long before 681 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: it happens to me? I'm an American, So I was 682 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: born in Queen's Right, but how long Flushing? I was 683 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: close enough to Shay that you could hear the stadium 684 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: like Well, then I moved to Long Island and I 685 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: went to Friends Academy, which is like a private Quaker 686 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: school England Cove kind of. As my parents made more money, 687 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: we moved further and further at on the island. Right, 688 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: So as I think about my career when I when 689 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm doing book events, now I have security, right, which 690 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: is not something I did for my first book. Right, 691 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: when I write, I think about, like, how you know, 692 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: I'm very when I write about Musk, especially because he's 693 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: the one with so much power. I write very truthfully 694 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: about him, but carefully. I use all of my legal 695 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: skills when I'm writing about must to be very careful 696 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: about what I'm saying, because I know that he will 697 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: sue people and he will go after people. 698 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: Is anything that you feel like this presidency has done 699 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 2: good at all? Was everything bad? If we can take 700 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 2: it carefully. 701 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: Now I'm trying to think carefully how to say it 702 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: without cursing. It's okay, sure, yeah, not one fucking thing, 703 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: because there is not one fucking thing that fascism does well. 704 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: And if I give them that credit, I legitimize all 705 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: of It's one of the reasons why I was so 706 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: angry at Schumer's capitulation on the budget deal. If you 707 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: say that you can work with these people here there 708 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: and whatever, what you're fundamentally saying is that you just 709 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: have a little bit of a disagreement on this, that 710 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: and the other thing. You're not actually fighting fascism. You're 711 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: just playing normal bullshit partisan politics. Right from my perspective, 712 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: Trump is a fascist threat to the country. Nothing he 713 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: do can be it can be okay. And I wanted 714 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: to say that about other Republicans. I want to said 715 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: that about Mett Romney or John McCain or even w 716 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: Dick Cheney different, but even w Right. You could find 717 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: some things that you could work together with those people 718 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: on because they were fundamentally democratic presidents. I mean democratic 719 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: with a small D. Right, Presidents who believed in democracy. 720 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 2: Don't get gay. 721 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 5: Oh we can't say Gage, New York don't get gay 722 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 5: because you say a small D. 723 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 2: And he was just thinking of small penisness. 724 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 3: I've got a couple. 725 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: I said small D and I said bush like in 726 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: the same But you know what was. 727 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 3: The significance of Corey book. Corey book is philibus. 728 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: It's got it. One of the things that democrats can 729 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: do since they have no political power is start building narratives, 730 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: start start building movements, and start building momentum towards change right. 731 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I wrote my book is 732 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: that I look, I wrote this in before the election, 733 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: before Joe Biden's first debate. I knew we were in trouble, 734 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: but it's you know, while I was writing it, I 735 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: was under no illusions. But I kept writing it, and 736 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: I kept thinking that this would be a good time 737 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: to release it, because from my perspective, if we lost, 738 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: this book then becomes my first attempt to write Project 739 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: twenty twenty nine. Ooh right, it these people are out 740 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: here writing Project twenty twenty five. When did they start 741 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,919 Speaker 1: writing that? In twenty twenty one when they had no power, 742 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: when they had no political power whatsoever. That's when they 743 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: started their plans for this current maggot revolution. So from 744 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: my perspective, this is the time when we have no 745 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: power that we need to actually start thinking bigger and 746 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: start thinking more actively. Right, when Republicans come into office, 747 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: they come in with a sledgehammer and they smash things, 748 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: Smash things that I hold dear, smash things that I 749 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: care about. Right when Democrats come into office, we come 750 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: in with like super glue and tape and we're going 751 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: to like put the base back together to make We 752 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: got to smash them things. My book is about what 753 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: we can smash. What Corey was doing is that same 754 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: kind of idea of building momentum to something bigger. And 755 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: that is the best use of democratic power at this point, 756 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: because it's the only power that they have. Right, you 757 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: can't actually stand up to them legally because you have 758 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: no authority. You can't send them to them in Congress 759 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: because you have no authority. Now, I think they should 760 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: be doing more than placards at the State of the Union. 761 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: That was pathetic doing what Corey Booker did, breaking racist 762 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: strom Thurman's record on the Senate floor, Like, these are 763 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: the narratives and stories that we can be building now 764 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: so that by the time we get to twenty twenty six. 765 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm not even talking about twenty twenty eight. To me 766 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: get to twenty twenty six primary season, that's the fight. 767 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 3: But is it too late if we're already in a 768 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 3: fascist dictatorship? 769 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: Fascist dictatorships don't historically last very long, okay, because they 770 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,280 Speaker 1: overplay their hands. They're terrible, and they overplay their hands. 771 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: And while they that small group of people that they 772 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: want to hurt at the outset that everybody's like, yeah, 773 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: let's hurt, then that always expands. It always expands. That's 774 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: the nature of fascism. The in group gets smaller and 775 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: the group gets bigger, and there's a tipping point when 776 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: the out group is so big they can overthrow the 777 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: in group. That's how every fascist dictatorship has ended, except 778 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: for Rome, when you needed actual work. 779 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 4: Have there ever been and you noticed, I've known. Have 780 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 4: there ever been a time in history when fascism has 781 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 4: been voted out? 782 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: Though? 783 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: Is what the question I'm asking. 784 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Franco was voted out. Okay, ran he didn't. 785 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: We didn't have to bomb his country, right, you can 786 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: you can vote these people out again. I'm not sure 787 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: that we're gonna have a free and fair election anytime soon, 788 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: but but yeah, you can vote these people. And and 789 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: and if you you know, my wife's from Zimbabwe. If 790 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: you look at the African continent, happens all the time. 791 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 1: You get like a terrible warlord, and they're terrible things, 792 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: and usually they have to die. But you know, when 793 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: they die of like natural causes, you have a new election, 794 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: and sometimes you get much better leaders the second time around. 795 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: I would hope that we're not in the situation where 796 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: we're in this until this man chokes on a big 797 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: mac like. I would hope that we could be a 798 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 1: little bit more proactive than that. But no, I don't. 799 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: We're in a fascist period. Whether it lasts two years 800 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: or five years, or ten years or twenty five years 801 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: is entirely up to us. 802 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 4: Well, Ellie Mistelle is new book Bad Law, Ten popular 803 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 4: laws that are ruining America. I learn a lot from you, Ellie. 804 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,399 Speaker 4: I like reading your stuff. Man, you are very good 805 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 4: at what you do. 806 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Interview. 807 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 5: I learned a lot in this interview, so I appreciate you. 808 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much. 809 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: Alrighty ladies and gentlemen pick up the new book bad Law. 810 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 2: It's the Breakfast Club. 811 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning. The 812 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: Breakfast Club