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Speaker 1: Bushkin. Hey everybody, it's me wie Ma Bell. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to my podcast Who's with Me, which is based on

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Speaker 1: my substack Who's with Me, So you can get the

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Speaker 1: podcast here with Me right now, or you can go

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Speaker 1: to my substack look up Who's with Me or w

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Speaker 1: ca mal Bell on substack and we can stay in touch.

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Speaker 1: This week, episode fourteen is My Friend CNN's Sarah Sidner.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Sidner is one of the co hosts of the

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Speaker 1: CNN program CNN News Central. I'm just laughing because it's

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Speaker 1: such a like they used to have lots of it's

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Speaker 1: their morning show. They used to have lots of like

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Speaker 1: more fun sounding names for the morning show because the

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Speaker 1: morning show. You know, morning news shows are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit fun, even when it's CNN and

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Speaker 1: bringing you the news. But now it is CNN News Central.

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Speaker 1: It just makes me laugh because it just sounds so

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Speaker 1: like we're having fun at seeing N anymore. They and

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Speaker 1: they may not be for a lot of reasons that

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get into today, because this episode

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Speaker 1: is just about talking to Sarah Seidner about her life

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Speaker 1: and how she got to be the journalist she is.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't had a conversation like this with her before.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know her background. We talked about that,

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Speaker 1: and also we talk about her recent, very recent, last

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Speaker 1: three years battle with breast cancer. She's currently cancer free.

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Speaker 1: She's training for the New York City Marathon. She's really

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Speaker 1: become quite an advocate and as a survivor, and she's great,

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Speaker 1: and I look forward to talking to her today. Well,

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Speaker 1: I talked to already. I look forward to sharing that

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Speaker 1: conversation with you in a few minutes. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why I'm saying today. But also let's get to my

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Speaker 1: stand up dates before we get to the other things.

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Speaker 1: I will be at the New York Comedy Club in Stanford,

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Speaker 1: Connecticut on September twenty fifth and twenty sixth. You can

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Speaker 1: get the dates from wqmube dot com or go to

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Speaker 1: the New York Comedy Club website. And then I will

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Speaker 1: be in Stanford University on October first, which you can

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Speaker 1: get from w cmub or go to Stanford Live dot com.

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Speaker 1: I think the website is. And then next year February twentieth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven, I'll be at Bellingham, Washington. Anyway, I

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Speaker 1: think I'm just not distracted to day, but my brain

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Speaker 1: is definitely processing a lot. I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: read the news about this ex Cambridge University professor Jason Arday,

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Speaker 1: a black man, black academic's a tragic story. He recently

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Speaker 1: took his own life after a really intense period of

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Speaker 1: being what I would say is bullied by the UK press.

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Speaker 1: Definitely bullied by the UK press. So Jason Arday, I

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Speaker 1: had not heard of him until last week or so.

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Speaker 1: I tried to pay attention to things going in the UK,

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Speaker 1: but I had missed this story. But anyway, Jason Arday

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Speaker 1: was the first I think black professor at Cambridge. Cambridge

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Speaker 1: is like they're Harvard, but I think they would say

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Speaker 1: we're better than Harvard. I'm sure they would in fact.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, So he was the first black professor. Is

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Speaker 1: certainly young, one of the youngest professors, maybe the youngest

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Speaker 1: professor ever at Cambridge. I don't have all the details

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Speaker 1: down because I'm just talking here, But anyway, he had

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Speaker 1: accomplished a lot in a very short life, and when

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Speaker 1: he told his story, there were elements to a story,

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Speaker 1: many el us to stories that sounded too good to

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Speaker 1: be true. Athletic achievements, places he had been, things he

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Speaker 1: had done that sort of built this real like legend

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Speaker 1: and myth around him, and at some point people started

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Speaker 1: to look into it and be like, hey, this is

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Speaker 1: not But one of the people who looked into it

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Speaker 1: was another professor at Cambridge named Nathan Kaufness. Nathan Coaffness

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Speaker 1: is a white guy who believes in that old school

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Speaker 1: Bell Curve theory that black people are less intelligent white

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Speaker 1: people because of genetics and DNA. He's that guy. He

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Speaker 1: had been a professor at Cambridge. Apparently he was so

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Speaker 1: racist they're like, we gotta let you go, man. And

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Speaker 1: his revenge tour was taking down Jason R. Day. He

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Speaker 1: made it his mission to take down Jason R. Day

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Speaker 1: because he believes that he needs white supremacy to rule

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Speaker 1: the land, you know, like a lot of people do.

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Speaker 1: And our day he's like, I got fired from this

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Speaker 1: institution for being a racist, so then I'm going to

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Speaker 1: use racism to take this guy down. Now, it's certainly

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Speaker 1: not a clean story, because Jason sounds like he did

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Speaker 1: make up lots of events about his life to help

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Speaker 1: sell the tale. Whatever perfect is, he was not that.

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Speaker 1: And also he's clearly dude who struggled with mental health.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure that all adds into it. So I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of sympathy for that. It just means

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Speaker 1: that the UK, when they found out that his story

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Speaker 1: was probably fabricated in many ways, that there's a certain

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Speaker 1: type of British racism that is like even more pure

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Speaker 1: than the American racism we experience as black people in

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Speaker 1: this country. It is more like wah, it is just

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Speaker 1: it is uncut. And so they really love to just

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Speaker 1: go on TV on all the channels, even the people

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Speaker 1: who are the so called left leaning press and just

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Speaker 1: terror part DEI. I didn't even know they called a

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Speaker 1: DEI over there, but they do, and they loved take

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Speaker 1: down this black man. There's glee in the faces of

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Speaker 1: like newspeople and anchors who are like, this black guy

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Speaker 1: lied and this is why DEI is bad. And this

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Speaker 1: guy Nathan coffiinence who was the ex professor, he said

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Speaker 1: his goal is to try to basically clear out all

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Speaker 1: diversity and especially black people out of academian leadership roles.

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Speaker 1: That's his goal. And so there's a lot of glee

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Speaker 1: in the UK press about taking on this black man

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Speaker 1: and also the UK. Has you think we have tabloid press.

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Speaker 1: They really invented this the way tabloid press really. If

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Speaker 1: it bleeds, it leads. There's been hundreds of articles written

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Speaker 1: about Jason Arday and his story. He resigned because of

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Speaker 1: all the controversy, and there was like over one hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty articles written after he resigned, So there's really

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Speaker 1: glee in taking this man down. I'm not here to

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Speaker 1: argue about whether or not he lied about his life.

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Speaker 1: In the details, it sounds pretty clear that he made

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Speaker 1: up some details. But here's the complicated part. I'm not

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Speaker 1: laughing because it's funny. I'm laughing because that's how I

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Speaker 1: express pain sometimes. Of course, of course we know this,

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Speaker 1: but they found examples of white people, white professors in

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Speaker 1: the UK lying about their resumes, plagiarizing, you know, assaulting people,

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Speaker 1: harassing students, sexually harassing students, and there weren't hundreds of

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Speaker 1: articles written about that, and some of them were allowed

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Speaker 1: to keep their jobs. So it's not about the fact

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Speaker 1: that he did something wrong he should resign, we can

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Speaker 1: talk about that. It's about the fact when black people

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Speaker 1: do something wrong we get so much more intense pressure scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's any number of times in this country

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Speaker 1: that just where black people. You know, it's like the

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Speaker 1: three strike laws in California, which affected black people and

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Speaker 1: also people of color. Is that I don't care if

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Speaker 1: that third strike is stealing a piece of pizza, You're

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Speaker 1: going to jail for life. Like it's just the ways

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Speaker 1: in which we are over prosecuted and over person acuted,

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Speaker 1: over the ways that white people who do similar things

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Speaker 1: or the same things or worse things don't deal with

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Speaker 1: the consequences in the same way. It is so clear

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Speaker 1: in this Jason Arday situation. So the conversation to me

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Speaker 1: and many other black people is not about did this

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Speaker 1: guy lie about his life and career? That's one conversation.

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Speaker 1: Is the UK leeffully using white supremacy and white supremacy

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Speaker 1: tactics in such way that this man felt bullied into

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Speaker 1: killing himself. That's the more important conversation. And it's not

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Speaker 1: even we don't have to answer the question why is

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Speaker 1: it that that white people can get away with more

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Speaker 1: than black people. We know it's it's because white supremacy

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Speaker 1: is baked into the system of this country and especially

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Speaker 1: the UK, because that's where they really perfected the original

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Speaker 1: recipe of white supremacy. It's just ugly and it just

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Speaker 1: reminds me again of the Nolan Wells thing, like a

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Speaker 1: black person on a good day has to sort of

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Speaker 1: walk around on tender hooks about is white supremacy coming

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Speaker 1: from me today? Am I going to look up and

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Speaker 1: find white supremacy? There's any number of stories, you know,

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Speaker 1: the stories. I don't know the names, but like there's

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Speaker 1: a black woman who knocked on somebody's house because she

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Speaker 1: was in trouble and needed help and this man shot her.

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Speaker 1: The Jordan Davis story. He was listening to music too loud,

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Speaker 1: too loud, I'm putting in square quotes, and a white

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Speaker 1: man killed him. Like, there's all these stories of black

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Speaker 1: people just living our lives out in the world and

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Speaker 1: being killed or targeted by racism just for living our

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Speaker 1: lives in the world. So of course, if you find

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Speaker 1: a black person who's actually maybe done something wrong, then

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Speaker 1: white supremacy really goes Oh, we can really go after

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Speaker 1: this guy. And they're making a real case out of

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Speaker 1: what this guy did as a way to say we

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have black people in academia, when again, there have

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Speaker 1: been many white professors, of course, mostly men, who have plagiarized,

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Speaker 1: assaulted people, harassed people who maybe lost their job, but

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Speaker 1: weren't turned into an international story about how white men

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Speaker 1: should not be in academia the way that Jason oar

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Speaker 1: Day has been turned into. So I feel rested piece Jason,

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Speaker 1: you know, And that's why I really give it up

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Speaker 1: for black people in media who hold their head up

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Speaker 1: and try to do the right thing, or black people

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Speaker 1: in the world. I'm thinking about Sarah Sidon right now.

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Speaker 1: This is my segue to Sarah Sidon, but just black

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Speaker 1: people world to keep their head up and do the

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Speaker 1: and do the best they can and try to help

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Speaker 1: their fellow person. And Sarah is one of those people.

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Speaker 1: She's working at CNN, and CNN is going through it

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Speaker 1: right now. They might be bought by one of the Ellisons,

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Speaker 1: by the lesser Ellison, David Ellison, and that is going

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Speaker 1: to change the network if CNN is bought by the

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Speaker 1: by the lesser Ellison, David Ellison. But meanwhile, Sarah just

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Speaker 1: shows up to work and does her job and really

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Speaker 1: understands what her job is as a journalist to try

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Speaker 1: to like understand people and highlight impacted voices, and Sarah,

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Speaker 1: much like me, used to have that CNN job where

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Speaker 1: she was out there in the field talking to people

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Speaker 1: directly about what was going on in their life and

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Speaker 1: and and talking to some of the scary people. We

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Speaker 1: both had our talk to the Clan moment. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know if she talked to the straight up plan

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Speaker 1: but certainly talk to like out loud racists in public.

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Speaker 1: So I really love that Sarah's out there, especially at

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Speaker 1: a time when it's hard to be a black woman

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Speaker 1: out there, just with the state of the current state

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Speaker 1: of America. It's always hard to be a black woman

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Speaker 1: out there, but specifically at the current state of America

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Speaker 1: under Trump, and I really admire her for sharing her

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Speaker 1: cancer journey with the audience and becoming an advocate for

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Speaker 1: cancer survivors and for cancer research. We talk about the

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Speaker 1: Breast Cancer Research Fund, which is where she's actually raising

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Speaker 1: money she's for and she's running a New York City marathon.

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Speaker 1: She's training for New York City Marathon, and she's going

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Speaker 1: to raise money for the Breast Cancer Research Fund. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk more about that later at the end, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: take it away, Sarah Sidner. Hey, thanks for watching an

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Speaker 1: episode of Who's with Me. If you're on YouTube, please

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Speaker 1: like and subscribe, share, hit that hype button. I hear

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Speaker 1: it makes all the difference. Please like, subscribe, share, hit

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Speaker 1: the hype button. Thank you, Sarah side Melville.

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Speaker 2: It's been a minute.

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Speaker 1: How Yeah, we were just trying to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: When's the last time we saw each other in real life.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to believe that this is when it is,

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Speaker 2: but I think it was back when you were doing

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Speaker 2: our show.

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Speaker 1: The United States of America. Yeah, that's my show. I

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Speaker 1: know it's see an end show, but it's my show.

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Speaker 1: I did have your name in it show. To be fair,

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Speaker 1: I would love to see them with somebody.

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Speaker 2: Else on our network. Let's do with that.

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Speaker 1: I would love to see United States of America with

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Speaker 1: you know, Roy Wood Junior. I would love to see that.

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Speaker 1: I would have feelings. I love Roy, but I would

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Speaker 1: have feelings. I have some feelings. I would I would

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Speaker 1: DM and be like, hey man, good luck.

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Speaker 2: Also, okay, well that's mine. Yeah, I think it was then.

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Speaker 2: I think we were.

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Speaker 1: When we were so in like the hinterlands of Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, And it made me cry. I remember that,

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Speaker 2: not on purpose. I didn't even know it was coming.

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Speaker 2: It just came out. But it's like it was some

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Speaker 2: stressful stuff, right, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird. It was when America was going through

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Speaker 1: things and there we were stressed about things. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember that time too. Yearsually go to

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Speaker 1: America felt like it was being pulled apart.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was really. I think I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: how I was feeling in my gut because I pushed

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Speaker 2: things down, down, down to be able to do this job.

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Speaker 2: Lucky for you, it all came out out out direct.

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, I wasn't a cynical to be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is good television. I was more like, oh, my

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Speaker 1: friend is crying and I didn't. I didn't expect that,

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Speaker 1: and I hope she's okay.

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Speaker 2: No, I was okay, but it was necessary too well.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, welcome to my podcast. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that was all part of it, but this is the

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Speaker 1: official welcome. Who's with me? I consider you to be

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Speaker 1: a person that I'm with and I believe you're with

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Speaker 1: me whether or not we work and for the same

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Speaker 1: corporate entity anymore or not. And you know, I also

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Speaker 1: always start by giving people their furs like this exactly, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, like that Joe said, mean bad because I

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Speaker 1: just feel like I want to have people on here

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Speaker 1: who I admire, who I respect, who I'm friendly with,

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Speaker 1: and and also I you know, I've admired you at

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Speaker 1: CNN since before we even are pas a cross like

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Speaker 1: just as a as A, as a reporter on the

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Speaker 1: air who was out in the world if if the

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Speaker 1: ship was going down, you were there, Yeah, for years

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Speaker 1: and years.

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Speaker 2: For years and years. I'm oddly attracted to conflict.

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Speaker 1: You would have to be because you were always there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I hate it so at the same time,

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Speaker 2: it's that duality that I really dislike conflict. I prefer

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Speaker 2: to have a chat, even with people who I completely

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Speaker 2: disagree with or who completely disagree with me, even people

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Speaker 2: who do not like me, Like I prefer to sit

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Speaker 2: down and have a conversation and not be in conflict.

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Speaker 2: But for some reason, there is a part of me

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Speaker 2: that wants to see conflict. I think it's because I

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Speaker 2: want to see how the resolution happens and want to

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Speaker 2: be a part of the resolution. Doesn't always work that way,

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Speaker 2: as you saw, but to understand the world. People are

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Speaker 2: the most honest when they're in conflict. They say things

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Speaker 2: straight from their mind, there's no filter, kind of like

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Speaker 2: my family. So I realize that there is there is

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Speaker 2: some synergy there with the way that my family also is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean all of that sounds very familiar to

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Speaker 1: me about how I say, I really don't want to

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Speaker 1: be in conflict, but I always feel like, but if

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Speaker 1: I'm working on a thing, there's got to be a

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Speaker 1: conflict that's being worked on. Yeah, and then suddenly you

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Speaker 1: find yourself, oh man, and here I am talking to

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Speaker 1: the klan, you know what I mean. Like, it's like that.

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Speaker 2: I've literally had that too.

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Speaker 1: We have that here, we have that in common. I

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Speaker 1: think we both have had maybe the same guys. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to tell. They have the hood zone.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it can be a little confusing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, and suddenly you're like in this position of

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Speaker 1: like and maybe please speak to this that you're like,

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Speaker 1: this is my common refrain those situations whose idea was this?

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Speaker 1: It was mine? Yeah, like it all it helps me

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Speaker 1: not to be able to blame anybody.

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Speaker 2: There is no one to blame when Sarah Seiedner is

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Speaker 2: covering a conflict. But yeah, because there's always the no

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Speaker 2: that could come and say like I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: do this, and yet I never say no to this thing.

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Speaker 2: But but I do value being able to sit across

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Speaker 2: from someone who, by many accounts do solely sometimes to

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Speaker 2: my skin color or especially being mixed race. I am

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Speaker 2: like the quintessential person to hate in the genre of

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Speaker 2: the clan or white supremacy, the mixing of blood is

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Speaker 2: a is a huge, big thing. There is something about

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Speaker 2: having being able to have a conversation with someone who

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Speaker 2: feels that way without tearing each other's eyes out that

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Speaker 2: matters to me. Yes, I think it is important to

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Speaker 2: show my humanity and to to also to try to understand.

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Speaker 2: I'm never going to understand that level of hatred. I'm

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Speaker 2: just never going to. There's not a single person in

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Speaker 2: this world that I hate, even those who may hate me.

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Speaker 1: You don't hate anybody.

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Speaker 2: I do not. I do not hate anyone.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I have felt hatred, I have felt I have felt

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Speaker 2: it make a mistake, like I have felt that that

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Speaker 2: that desire to really like, oh God, I just hate you,

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Speaker 2: or as I like to say, can I cuss I

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Speaker 2: hate your ass?

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Speaker 1: Right? I think?

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Speaker 2: Okay, it dissipates though, when I see their humanity, because

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Speaker 2: in each and every person that I have ever spoken with,

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Speaker 2: I see something in them that's almost like their childhood self.

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Speaker 2: And that's the way that I think of them, Like

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Speaker 2: who were you as a kid? Right, And because we

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Speaker 2: know we're not born with this in our systems, we're

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Speaker 2: taught this, and so who were you? And who was I?

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Speaker 2: I love people. I have always been a lover of humans.

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Speaker 2: My friends are like, oh, I hate people, right, I'm

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Speaker 2: I'm always the opposite, and they're like, oh, we're so

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Speaker 2: sick of you. You love people, But I genuinely do,

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Speaker 2: and I can see that kernel of humanity in every

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Speaker 2: single human being.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely I am you know, I'm an

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Speaker 1: only child, which I think, yeah, oh okay, So this

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Speaker 1: is all starting to come together because I feel like

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Speaker 1: I've started to say on stage, like, if there was

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Speaker 1: no such thing in my stand up back, there's no

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Speaker 1: such thing as like racism in America's white supremacy, my

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Speaker 1: main identifier would be only child. Like I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's how I process the world. I am black, and

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to be black, and I thank you forgiving

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Speaker 1: me a good one you know, you know, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not fighting against the being black. I'm not. I

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Speaker 1: love it and I've invested a lot of time in

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Speaker 1: at this point. Don't take it away. But if I

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Speaker 1: just like when I'm by myself in a in a

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Speaker 1: room alone, as I was as a kid a lot

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Speaker 1: only and then I would go out and interact with

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Speaker 1: the world and the ways in which I felt like

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Speaker 1: the world and me didn't always sync up. A lot

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Speaker 1: of times it was black a lot of times. It's

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Speaker 1: only child.

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Speaker 2: I have never thought about that, but I would probably

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Speaker 2: say for me it would be woman, right, or girl

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Speaker 2: then woman. But the only childing is huge growing up

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Speaker 2: and I should for me. Yeah, No, it's huge for

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Speaker 2: me as well. And I should be clear of my

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Speaker 2: mother's only child. There were children that my father had,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't grow up with them child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I grew up mostly by myself and I.

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Speaker 2: Love them as sisters, but I didn't learn of them

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Speaker 2: until later. So it was me and mama. And you know,

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Speaker 2: one thing that I think people don't know about me,

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Speaker 2: even in my own office, is that deep down I

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Speaker 2: am country. I mean country, I mean no shoes, horses,

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Speaker 2: a pet, pig, a pet, guinea pig, a cat, a dog.

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Speaker 2: Picking up snakes, snakes, no jokes, that's a country.

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Speaker 1: I'm not afraid a religious tree or just picking up

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Speaker 1: snakes because they're just like they were there, not like

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Speaker 1: talking to snakes.

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Speaker 2: But just rat snakes hanging from a tree.

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Speaker 1: Snake is there are these big.

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Speaker 2: Black snakes and they would get up in trees and

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Speaker 2: so sometimes you'd look up and you're like, oh, there's

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Speaker 2: a rap now listen. That sounds like a nightmare to

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Speaker 2: ninety percent of the people I know.

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Speaker 1: I think you're under selling a big black snake hanging

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Speaker 1: from a tree as being a nightmare only to ninety

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Speaker 1: percent of people.

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Speaker 2: I know, because people the symbol is the symbol that

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Speaker 2: a snake is. But actually they're really interesting creatures. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I don't say you picking them up at any time.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to argue against them as interesting creatures,

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Speaker 1: just not hanging from a tree outside my house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no fear of that. But there's also

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Speaker 2: another part of me that's really a city girl. So

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Speaker 2: I'm a lot of things that I think being an

390
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Speaker 2: only child set the stage for me to find so

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Speaker 2: many things interesting and be curious about other human beings

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Speaker 2: because I was alone a lot with animals. So animals

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Speaker 2: and I we have a language, right. I wanted to

394
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Speaker 2: be Doctor Doolittle so.

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Speaker 1: Bad, so bad.

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Speaker 2: I still to this day, I'm like, I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: can understand me. Now, please speak back. We don't have

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Speaker 2: to tell anybody speak back. Keep it a secret, I swear.

399
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Speaker 2: So there's a shared language there. But sometimes humans can

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Speaker 2: found me. And I think that's from being an only child.

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00:20:32,224 --> 00:20:33,704
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that that's the I don't

402
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Speaker 1: have the animal thing. I'm not an animal person. My

403
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Speaker 1: family has a dog. I do not have a dog.

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Speaker 2: It's just like, so you're still trying to figure out humans.

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Speaker 1: Just to yeah, I'm still I'm still stuck on humans.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that the that it's interesting because

407
00:20:47,664 --> 00:20:49,144
Speaker 1: you just said a bunch of things like it wasn't

408
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Speaker 1: until I started to prepare for today that I found

409
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Speaker 1: out that you were from Florida is that the country

410
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Speaker 1: thing is Florida is a lot of things. It is

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Speaker 1: people think of Florida can be a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: And I'm a lot of I am very much like that.

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of things because I was in

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Speaker 2: the country as a child. We lived in several places.

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Speaker 2: California is also home, okay, so we lived in several places,

416
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Speaker 2: but I lived in the country part of like what

417
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Speaker 2: is North Florida.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's not Miami Lakes or something.

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Speaker 2: I moved to Miami Lake, Okay, and that's where I

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Speaker 2: finished high school.

421
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Speaker 1: Is Miami Lakes, because I know is that is? That?

422
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Speaker 1: Is that a suburb of Miami.

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00:21:24,224 --> 00:21:28,464
Speaker 2: Miami is Hialiah Miami Lakes, right, And so it's a

424
00:21:28,504 --> 00:21:30,824
Speaker 2: whole It's just a whole different life. So I have

425
00:21:30,984 --> 00:21:34,543
Speaker 2: had as many lives as cats hat and then some.

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Speaker 2: So when people are talking to me, they don't realize

427
00:21:37,904 --> 00:21:39,584
Speaker 2: that I can talk like this all day long as

428
00:21:39,584 --> 00:21:42,783
Speaker 2: you want me to, like, but it's natural, like I

429
00:21:42,784 --> 00:21:43,664
Speaker 2: grew up around it.

430
00:21:43,704 --> 00:21:47,464
Speaker 1: Like a problem. It's funny because my dad lives in Alabama.

431
00:21:47,864 --> 00:21:50,504
Speaker 1: Uh still lives in Mobile, Alabama. And I will go

432
00:21:50,624 --> 00:21:52,944
Speaker 1: back and my wife will be like, oh, your your

433
00:21:53,024 --> 00:21:54,784
Speaker 1: accents kicking in, And it's just for me. It's just

434
00:21:54,824 --> 00:21:57,064
Speaker 1: like happened because it's easier to talk to people that way.

435
00:21:57,504 --> 00:22:00,544
Speaker 2: It's natural. It's not I'm not saking it, like this

436
00:22:00,624 --> 00:22:03,064
Speaker 2: is how this is the accent that's in my head.

437
00:22:03,064 --> 00:22:05,263
Speaker 2: When I'm talking to myself, it is that accent.

438
00:22:05,304 --> 00:22:07,744
Speaker 1: You talk to yourself in a Southern accent. Yeah, that is.

439
00:22:08,024 --> 00:22:08,624
Speaker 2: It's that weird.

440
00:22:09,064 --> 00:22:10,783
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not weird. I just didn't know it.

441
00:22:10,784 --> 00:22:13,384
Speaker 1: It's I mean people with Southern accidents, of course talked

442
00:22:13,424 --> 00:22:15,104
Speaker 1: themselves in some other accents. I just didn't know that

443
00:22:15,464 --> 00:22:18,904
Speaker 1: your Southern was that was so embedded that it was like, yeah,

444
00:22:19,344 --> 00:22:21,144
Speaker 1: you're a girl, you.

445
00:22:22,704 --> 00:22:24,544
Speaker 2: Need to Okay, wait, I gotta just tell this story.

446
00:22:24,784 --> 00:22:27,064
Speaker 2: So when I was a kid, Okay, my mother is British,

447
00:22:27,144 --> 00:22:27,984
Speaker 2: so imagine this.

448
00:22:30,664 --> 00:22:32,864
Speaker 1: Here's the thing about you too. I was on the edge,

449
00:22:33,104 --> 00:22:35,384
Speaker 1: like we were both in this. We came up before

450
00:22:35,384 --> 00:22:39,064
Speaker 1: the internet knew anything about us. So I remember seeing

451
00:22:39,064 --> 00:22:41,744
Speaker 1: you on TV and just being like, Okay, she's something,

452
00:22:42,304 --> 00:22:45,544
Speaker 1: but I don't know what she is exactly. There could

453
00:22:45,584 --> 00:22:48,544
Speaker 1: be black, could be mixed race, could be Sri Lankan.

454
00:22:48,584 --> 00:22:50,984
Speaker 1: I don't know what, but she's something something like.

455
00:22:51,024 --> 00:22:52,504
Speaker 2: That in there.

456
00:22:52,824 --> 00:22:52,944
Speaker 1: No.

457
00:22:52,944 --> 00:22:55,944
Speaker 2: No, yeah, because I lived in India and people thought

458
00:22:55,944 --> 00:22:56,664
Speaker 2: I was India, of.

459
00:22:56,664 --> 00:22:59,664
Speaker 1: Course they did. No. No, there's nobody surprised. And so

460
00:23:00,624 --> 00:23:03,184
Speaker 1: I and then you Google it's like you're not You're

461
00:23:02,944 --> 00:23:05,144
Speaker 1: You're also the journalis that you probably kept it, kept

462
00:23:05,184 --> 00:23:06,704
Speaker 1: everything off the internet.

463
00:23:07,104 --> 00:23:10,264
Speaker 2: I was like, who cares. There was a part of

464
00:23:10,304 --> 00:23:11,904
Speaker 2: me that said, who care. But there is also a

465
00:23:11,944 --> 00:23:14,144
Speaker 2: part of me that's like, you need to know that

466
00:23:14,184 --> 00:23:17,904
Speaker 2: this human being has a lot of different parts to her,

467
00:23:18,264 --> 00:23:21,144
Speaker 2: and I used to be afraid to admit some of

468
00:23:21,184 --> 00:23:24,464
Speaker 2: the parts that existed. And the country part when you're

469
00:23:24,464 --> 00:23:26,504
Speaker 2: in the city was one of those things because people

470
00:23:26,504 --> 00:23:29,744
Speaker 2: would think, they're like, oh, she dumb, Oh she's right,

471
00:23:29,784 --> 00:23:33,504
Speaker 2: which is such a asinine thing to think about people

472
00:23:33,504 --> 00:23:34,144
Speaker 2: from the South.

473
00:23:34,424 --> 00:23:36,464
Speaker 1: Right, we think about the beginning of this country. All

474
00:23:36,504 --> 00:23:38,904
Speaker 1: of our great black intellects were from the South, you know,

475
00:23:38,944 --> 00:23:40,664
Speaker 1: because you But.

476
00:23:40,704 --> 00:23:43,944
Speaker 2: So there was this pulling back of telling that side

477
00:23:44,024 --> 00:23:46,664
Speaker 2: of my own story, even with friends, especially when I

478
00:23:46,704 --> 00:23:48,144
Speaker 2: was in Miami, right.

479
00:23:48,224 --> 00:23:51,104
Speaker 1: Because Miami is like sort of considered itself to be

480
00:23:51,184 --> 00:23:52,904
Speaker 1: not the South, Right, Yeah.

481
00:23:52,944 --> 00:23:57,504
Speaker 2: Because it is. It is like almost a different country

482
00:23:57,704 --> 00:24:00,784
Speaker 2: the way in which people are in Miami, because you

483
00:24:00,864 --> 00:24:05,384
Speaker 2: have a huge Caribbean influence. You've got Jamaicans, You've got Haitians,

484
00:24:05,424 --> 00:24:08,944
Speaker 2: You've got the Cubans, right, and it is a true

485
00:24:09,064 --> 00:24:11,904
Speaker 2: mix from the Caribbean and Latin a Maria that you

486
00:24:11,944 --> 00:24:14,144
Speaker 2: don't see and the rest of the state.

487
00:24:14,424 --> 00:24:17,464
Speaker 1: Yes, right, not like that. It's very much like California

488
00:24:17,544 --> 00:24:20,344
Speaker 1: or California should be six states and Florida should be

489
00:24:20,384 --> 00:24:22,064
Speaker 1: at least three. Yeah. Yeah, there's just.

490
00:24:22,064 --> 00:24:24,024
Speaker 2: It's the middle of it is different that you know,

491
00:24:24,064 --> 00:24:26,344
Speaker 2: the Panhandle is different. Then you've got the southern part

492
00:24:26,344 --> 00:24:28,744
Speaker 2: of it, and then you've got Orlando where everyone's like, oh,

493
00:24:28,784 --> 00:24:31,064
Speaker 2: Disney World. So it's a lot of things. But I'm

494
00:24:31,104 --> 00:24:31,784
Speaker 2: a lot of things.

495
00:24:32,024 --> 00:24:34,064
Speaker 1: So wait and I interrupt you British mom.

496
00:24:34,264 --> 00:24:36,624
Speaker 2: Yes, my mother is from Britain and not from London.

497
00:24:36,704 --> 00:24:37,904
Speaker 2: She's from the countryside.

498
00:24:38,104 --> 00:24:41,104
Speaker 1: Oh so you earned it twice, the country, double country.

499
00:24:42,024 --> 00:24:45,144
Speaker 2: I'm I'm in near she was near Lester, and I

500
00:24:45,184 --> 00:24:46,664
Speaker 2: meet British people all the time. I was like, oh,

501
00:24:46,704 --> 00:24:48,904
Speaker 2: my my mother's from near Lester and that's like, oh, yes,

502
00:24:48,944 --> 00:24:50,664
Speaker 2: we know. And I was like, do you know where?

503
00:24:50,904 --> 00:24:52,464
Speaker 2: And they were like, I'm sure we know. And I

504
00:24:52,504 --> 00:24:53,904
Speaker 2: tell them where and they're like, never heard of it?

505
00:24:53,904 --> 00:24:56,064
Speaker 2: And I'm like, because there's like three people that live there,

506
00:24:56,104 --> 00:24:58,864
Speaker 2: and those three people were my family, and there were

507
00:24:58,864 --> 00:25:02,624
Speaker 2: a lot of farms, and so the country is is

508
00:25:02,704 --> 00:25:07,224
Speaker 2: really a full half of me, Like I'm deeply embedded country.

509
00:25:07,304 --> 00:25:10,384
Speaker 1: You're mixed black and white, and then also mixed country

510
00:25:10,384 --> 00:25:12,704
Speaker 1: and city. Yes, I mean country.

511
00:25:12,824 --> 00:25:15,344
Speaker 2: That's that's a good way to put it. But when

512
00:25:15,384 --> 00:25:19,424
Speaker 2: I was living in the country, living living in a city,

513
00:25:19,544 --> 00:25:21,864
Speaker 2: living in a country. When I was living in the country,

514
00:25:22,024 --> 00:25:25,384
Speaker 2: there was this little school that I went to, and

515
00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:29,104
Speaker 2: my mother wanted to make absolutely sure that I knew

516
00:25:29,664 --> 00:25:31,904
Speaker 2: the black side of my family. My father was not

517
00:25:32,104 --> 00:25:33,104
Speaker 2: involved much in.

518
00:25:33,064 --> 00:25:37,264
Speaker 1: My life, that's correct.

519
00:25:38,544 --> 00:25:44,024
Speaker 2: There she made sure she was like, this is this

520
00:25:44,064 --> 00:25:46,023
Speaker 2: is a part of you. You must know this. And

521
00:25:46,064 --> 00:25:49,504
Speaker 2: so I spent a lot of time with a lot

522
00:25:49,504 --> 00:25:51,904
Speaker 2: of my relatives on my father's side, my grandmother, my

523
00:25:51,984 --> 00:25:56,384
Speaker 2: uncles and aunts and another way, you know, in the South,

524
00:25:56,944 --> 00:25:58,504
Speaker 2: people from all the place. When she's a single mom.

525
00:25:58,584 --> 00:26:01,024
Speaker 2: So I'm going off to you know, school, and we

526
00:26:01,144 --> 00:26:05,023
Speaker 2: had this one class where I cannot get it out

527
00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:07,824
Speaker 2: of my mind. I can see vividly. There was a

528
00:26:07,864 --> 00:26:10,023
Speaker 2: teacher and she would bring her mother in, who was

529
00:26:10,064 --> 00:26:14,224
Speaker 2: probably in her early seventies, late eighties, and she came

530
00:26:14,264 --> 00:26:17,224
Speaker 2: in to play the piano for us, and she would

531
00:26:17,224 --> 00:26:20,783
Speaker 2: bang on that thing like she was I don't know,

532
00:26:22,144 --> 00:26:26,424
Speaker 2: think of somebody Ray Charles is too tame. Okay, okay,

533
00:26:26,704 --> 00:26:31,144
Speaker 2: she was like the black LIBERACEI like, she would go

534
00:26:31,264 --> 00:26:33,864
Speaker 2: off right, and she used to sing this song and

535
00:26:33,864 --> 00:26:35,744
Speaker 2: she would bang on the piano. She's like great balls

536
00:26:35,744 --> 00:26:39,024
Speaker 2: of fires. She would get Jerry Lewis, That's that's what

537
00:26:39,104 --> 00:26:40,624
Speaker 2: I actually thought. We said bang on the piano. I

538
00:26:40,624 --> 00:26:43,944
Speaker 2: thought so she would she would bring on and then

539
00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:48,024
Speaker 2: she would get so hyped up. She would say great

540
00:26:48,104 --> 00:26:50,864
Speaker 2: balls of fire. And from that moment when that happened,

541
00:26:50,904 --> 00:26:53,384
Speaker 2: because it was like something the spirit took over her

542
00:26:54,224 --> 00:26:56,263
Speaker 2: and my mother happened to be in there once. So

543
00:26:56,464 --> 00:26:58,584
Speaker 2: that is a language that my mom and I will

544
00:26:58,584 --> 00:27:00,704
Speaker 2: say to each other when things are getting crazy. We

545
00:27:00,864 --> 00:27:05,864
Speaker 2: like balls. But those are the memories. It's like the

546
00:27:05,904 --> 00:27:09,664
Speaker 2: core memories that I have of the South and black

547
00:27:09,704 --> 00:27:14,144
Speaker 2: folks and the care and excitement in the stories that

548
00:27:14,184 --> 00:27:18,024
Speaker 2: they would tell and the way that that we tell stories.

549
00:27:19,064 --> 00:27:21,464
Speaker 2: So much of that came from from those experiences.

550
00:27:21,504 --> 00:27:23,424
Speaker 1: Well, I also want to give your mom some flowers

551
00:27:23,504 --> 00:27:26,824
Speaker 1: right now, because to be a white mom, a British

552
00:27:26,824 --> 00:27:29,104
Speaker 1: white mom, and to recognize that your mixed race black

553
00:27:29,184 --> 00:27:32,384
Speaker 1: child needs black people. That's not how all.

554
00:27:32,224 --> 00:27:34,624
Speaker 2: White parents and black kids do it, and this was

555
00:27:34,664 --> 00:27:35,464
Speaker 2: this was a while ago.

556
00:27:36,464 --> 00:27:38,224
Speaker 1: It was like she didn't do it because she went

557
00:27:38,224 --> 00:27:40,224
Speaker 1: to a website that recommended that she do it, or

558
00:27:40,224 --> 00:27:42,624
Speaker 1: she there or got a book from whatever that said

559
00:27:42,624 --> 00:27:44,584
Speaker 1: this subood raised mixed race kid.

560
00:27:44,904 --> 00:27:45,904
Speaker 2: She understood the assignment.

561
00:27:45,984 --> 00:27:48,664
Speaker 1: If you that's a real understanding because you know a

562
00:27:48,664 --> 00:27:50,344
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of white parents. And I say

563
00:27:50,384 --> 00:27:51,984
Speaker 1: this because I know people. I know a lot of

564
00:27:51,984 --> 00:27:55,624
Speaker 1: transracial adoptees and their white parents because they had two

565
00:27:55,624 --> 00:27:57,664
Speaker 1: white parents. A lot of them just said I don't

566
00:27:57,744 --> 00:28:00,184
Speaker 1: care if you're black, white, or green or purple. You're

567
00:28:00,384 --> 00:28:02,744
Speaker 1: just my kid. And the black kid would later get

568
00:28:02,784 --> 00:28:03,984
Speaker 1: up and be like, yeah, but I need some black

569
00:28:04,024 --> 00:28:04,944
Speaker 1: people on me. Yeah.

570
00:28:05,344 --> 00:28:08,424
Speaker 2: Society hares yes, society I mean, and you can try

571
00:28:08,464 --> 00:28:11,984
Speaker 2: to ignore it, but good luck, right, it is a

572
00:28:12,024 --> 00:28:14,384
Speaker 2: part of you, so why not explore it. And I've

573
00:28:14,424 --> 00:28:18,824
Speaker 2: explored both. My mother she had a heavy accent coming

574
00:28:18,904 --> 00:28:24,064
Speaker 2: from the countryside in England, and people you just say, damn, ma'am,

575
00:28:24,064 --> 00:28:27,304
Speaker 2: are you from France. We would get that a lot, right,

576
00:28:27,384 --> 00:28:30,104
Speaker 2: because that was the touchstone, and people like.

577
00:28:30,704 --> 00:28:33,464
Speaker 1: The British accent, the harry On TV eah and.

578
00:28:33,384 --> 00:28:36,744
Speaker 2: So there was always this thing of feeling a little

579
00:28:36,744 --> 00:28:39,864
Speaker 2: bit like an outsider no matter where I went. Yeah,

580
00:28:40,304 --> 00:28:43,344
Speaker 2: that definitely shaped me.

581
00:28:43,584 --> 00:28:45,184
Speaker 1: Did you Were you ever a kid who was like

582
00:28:45,224 --> 00:28:48,144
Speaker 1: embarrassed to introduce your mom to your friends or like

583
00:28:48,464 --> 00:28:50,184
Speaker 1: because she's weird, or like you know.

584
00:28:50,224 --> 00:28:52,384
Speaker 2: Now, okay, good for you because we're weird.

585
00:28:52,704 --> 00:28:54,264
Speaker 1: Good. Yeah, I mean you're weird, and I just want

586
00:28:54,464 --> 00:28:56,904
Speaker 1: you accepted your weirdness and you knew, yeah, we're just weird.

587
00:28:56,984 --> 00:28:58,144
Speaker 1: So my mama was.

588
00:28:58,304 --> 00:29:02,464
Speaker 2: She's a big personalities. It still does and so no,

589
00:29:03,424 --> 00:29:06,464
Speaker 2: it just this my mom. Yeah, and sometimes you would

590
00:29:06,504 --> 00:29:10,544
Speaker 2: be like what, yeah, but if you see us all

591
00:29:10,584 --> 00:29:14,384
Speaker 2: my friends, when you see us side by side, it's clear.

592
00:29:33,024 --> 00:29:34,424
Speaker 1: Why do you think your mom knew to put you

593
00:29:34,464 --> 00:29:37,744
Speaker 1: around black folks? Like what did she you know?

594
00:29:38,384 --> 00:29:42,064
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, she loved black folks, obviously.

595
00:29:43,224 --> 00:29:43,784
Speaker 1: At least one.

596
00:29:47,224 --> 00:29:53,864
Speaker 2: She loved exploring culture, and and that is across the board.

597
00:29:54,544 --> 00:29:56,384
Speaker 2: She was the person in the room that always knew

598
00:29:56,384 --> 00:29:59,304
Speaker 2: who the leaders of different countries were. And that's partly

599
00:29:59,384 --> 00:30:00,344
Speaker 2: from being European and.

600
00:30:00,304 --> 00:30:03,184
Speaker 1: Your just they just grow up knowing stuff.

601
00:30:04,064 --> 00:30:07,504
Speaker 2: There have been a lot of wars, right all right there, right,

602
00:30:07,544 --> 00:30:10,024
Speaker 2: I always say, like in Europe, the countries are like

603
00:30:10,104 --> 00:30:13,424
Speaker 2: states in the United States, right, that's how close they are,

604
00:30:13,464 --> 00:30:16,944
Speaker 2: and similar to us in our country with states. So

605
00:30:16,984 --> 00:30:20,544
Speaker 2: she was always fascinated and always reading and always open

606
00:30:20,664 --> 00:30:24,184
Speaker 2: to trying to understand, which I think I certainly have

607
00:30:24,304 --> 00:30:25,624
Speaker 2: some of that in my system.

608
00:30:25,384 --> 00:30:27,184
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it's just a.

609
00:30:27,224 --> 00:30:30,584
Speaker 2: Tad apple does not fall for from the tree. So

610
00:30:31,864 --> 00:30:34,784
Speaker 2: I think she just understood that I was going to

611
00:30:34,824 --> 00:30:37,624
Speaker 2: need that, just as she sort of needed to understand

612
00:30:37,664 --> 00:30:41,064
Speaker 2: American culture as well. She told me that she was

613
00:30:41,504 --> 00:30:43,904
Speaker 2: shocked this was the land of you know, milk and

614
00:30:43,944 --> 00:30:49,144
Speaker 2: honey when when she came to the States and she

615
00:30:49,424 --> 00:30:52,064
Speaker 2: was shocked at sort of the state of some parts

616
00:30:52,104 --> 00:30:54,784
Speaker 2: of the United States. She had no idea the amount

617
00:30:54,824 --> 00:30:57,064
Speaker 2: of poverty that existed because what was being kind of

618
00:30:57,064 --> 00:31:00,424
Speaker 2: put out there was very different than what she saw

619
00:31:00,624 --> 00:31:01,704
Speaker 2: in reality.

620
00:31:02,024 --> 00:31:03,704
Speaker 1: And I, you know, and I don't know what your

621
00:31:03,704 --> 00:31:06,504
Speaker 1: mom's prayers was, because there's also a thing in England

622
00:31:07,224 --> 00:31:09,704
Speaker 1: that there's just there's the Dole and there's this idea

623
00:31:09,704 --> 00:31:12,064
Speaker 1: that like and there's nationalized health care, so that there

624
00:31:12,064 --> 00:31:15,544
Speaker 1: are certainly poverty. There's certainly poverty, but there's also just

625
00:31:15,904 --> 00:31:19,704
Speaker 1: more and more developed social safety that I would say, yeah.

626
00:31:19,104 --> 00:31:22,984
Speaker 2: And grappling with understanding that you know, it took some

627
00:31:23,024 --> 00:31:26,304
Speaker 2: time and I'm watching her kind of struggle and try

628
00:31:26,344 --> 00:31:28,744
Speaker 2: to figure herself out. But the one thing, and I

629
00:31:28,744 --> 00:31:30,664
Speaker 2: always say this, that people are like, oh, privilege. I

630
00:31:30,784 --> 00:31:33,264
Speaker 2: was like I had privilege because my mother was well educated.

631
00:31:33,384 --> 00:31:37,184
Speaker 2: She got a free education and believed in it, and

632
00:31:37,264 --> 00:31:39,784
Speaker 2: so I had never questioned whether I was going to

633
00:31:39,784 --> 00:31:43,784
Speaker 2: college well as some of my friends did, and so

634
00:31:44,104 --> 00:31:46,744
Speaker 2: it was never like a question. It was like, this

635
00:31:46,864 --> 00:31:47,464
Speaker 2: is just what you do.

636
00:31:47,824 --> 00:31:50,704
Speaker 1: Even that's a privilege, as you said, the privilege of like, yeah,

637
00:31:50,744 --> 00:31:53,184
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to college. It's not a thing

638
00:31:53,224 --> 00:31:56,744
Speaker 1: to wrestle with should I can? I will I. It's

639
00:31:56,784 --> 00:31:58,464
Speaker 1: just like, oh no, it's a very aware.

640
00:31:58,504 --> 00:32:00,584
Speaker 2: How exactly exactly.

641
00:32:01,224 --> 00:32:02,384
Speaker 1: What did your mom do for a living?

642
00:32:03,144 --> 00:32:06,504
Speaker 2: A lot of things. Okay, she eventually became a teacher,

643
00:32:06,544 --> 00:32:08,904
Speaker 2: but she was she had a mental health license at

644
00:32:08,904 --> 00:32:11,184
Speaker 2: one point. Listen, when we first got here, she as

645
00:32:11,184 --> 00:32:13,664
Speaker 2: a waitress at a cocktail bar. Yeah, the song that

646
00:32:13,664 --> 00:32:16,464
Speaker 2: comes into my head working as a waitress and a

647
00:32:16,544 --> 00:32:22,024
Speaker 2: cocktail bar. So I remember her coming home and spilling

648
00:32:22,104 --> 00:32:24,224
Speaker 2: the tips out onto the table, and every now and

649
00:32:24,224 --> 00:32:26,904
Speaker 2: then there'd be like a fifty cent piece and those

650
00:32:26,984 --> 00:32:31,104
Speaker 2: were treasures to me, right, So like sifting through the coins.

651
00:32:31,224 --> 00:32:33,704
Speaker 2: Pennies were in there too, like sifting through and finding

652
00:32:33,744 --> 00:32:38,384
Speaker 2: something like that. I still remember the response to that.

653
00:32:39,184 --> 00:32:44,504
Speaker 1: How did journalism become your thing? Good God, because that's

654
00:32:44,544 --> 00:32:46,984
Speaker 1: also part of a privilege to think I can be

655
00:32:47,024 --> 00:32:49,624
Speaker 1: a journalist, you know, like that's not especially when're saying

656
00:32:49,664 --> 00:32:51,944
Speaker 1: you're coming from from poverty or from didn't have money.

657
00:32:51,944 --> 00:32:54,104
Speaker 1: You didn't have money to think that like I can

658
00:32:54,224 --> 00:32:56,864
Speaker 1: be because when we're coming up, we're the same age.

659
00:32:57,264 --> 00:32:58,384
Speaker 1: The TV doesn't have people on.

660
00:32:58,464 --> 00:33:00,224
Speaker 2: It looks like you we didn't have TV.

661
00:33:01,664 --> 00:33:04,824
Speaker 1: Well, this interview's over all right. I can't be around

662
00:33:04,824 --> 00:33:07,184
Speaker 1: this level. I know, I know it's you didn't have TV.

663
00:33:07,544 --> 00:33:10,184
Speaker 1: No a TV, or you'd watch TV.

664
00:33:10,304 --> 00:33:15,064
Speaker 2: We didn't have a TV. She wasn't, but she also okay,

665
00:33:15,144 --> 00:33:17,344
Speaker 2: so now you now now you done did it?

666
00:33:17,704 --> 00:33:19,384
Speaker 1: How you're right? And I'm glad I did it because

667
00:33:19,584 --> 00:33:21,304
Speaker 1: I didn't know this would be. I get so mad

668
00:33:21,464 --> 00:33:22,144
Speaker 1: or so fired up.

669
00:33:22,504 --> 00:33:25,184
Speaker 2: While the first place we lived, well, the first couple

670
00:33:25,184 --> 00:33:27,384
Speaker 2: of places we lived in Florida, we did not have electricity,

671
00:33:27,864 --> 00:33:28,944
Speaker 2: We did not have running water.

672
00:33:30,024 --> 00:33:31,424
Speaker 1: So so we're there.

673
00:33:31,824 --> 00:33:33,624
Speaker 2: Yeah, and part of that was a choice, but it

674
00:33:33,664 --> 00:33:35,504
Speaker 2: was like this is what this is the land that

675
00:33:35,544 --> 00:33:39,784
Speaker 2: we can afford, okay, And so we pumped water. And

676
00:33:41,064 --> 00:33:42,664
Speaker 2: I did not think I was going to have this

677
00:33:42,704 --> 00:33:43,784
Speaker 2: conversation about.

678
00:33:43,544 --> 00:33:46,544
Speaker 1: So excited that you had good When I talked to you,

679
00:33:46,624 --> 00:33:49,184
Speaker 1: I get things even I'm just asking questions.

680
00:33:49,344 --> 00:33:53,424
Speaker 2: So that experience, it was like I cannot be bored,

681
00:33:54,064 --> 00:33:56,424
Speaker 2: Like to this day, if you put me in a

682
00:33:56,504 --> 00:33:59,984
Speaker 2: room with nothing in the room, just the four walls,

683
00:34:00,704 --> 00:34:02,624
Speaker 2: I will entertain myself for the towers.

684
00:34:05,424 --> 00:34:07,344
Speaker 1: That's also an only child thing. But also I guess

685
00:34:07,344 --> 00:34:09,024
Speaker 1: if you if you take away no TV and no

686
00:34:09,264 --> 00:34:11,984
Speaker 1: and and we got to pump well water, you got

687
00:34:12,064 --> 00:34:13,104
Speaker 1: things to do all the time.

688
00:34:12,984 --> 00:34:15,984
Speaker 2: Which explains why I found things like snakes and other things.

689
00:34:15,984 --> 00:34:18,464
Speaker 2: Like it was go outside for real, for real, like

690
00:34:18,663 --> 00:34:20,503
Speaker 2: be out there and figure it out.

691
00:34:20,783 --> 00:34:23,184
Speaker 1: So now I understand that a snake in the tree

692
00:34:23,384 --> 00:34:25,424
Speaker 1: is actually your favorite television program.

693
00:34:25,663 --> 00:34:28,623
Speaker 2: I mean it's like, wow, look at what it's doing.

694
00:34:28,703 --> 00:34:31,344
Speaker 2: Now watch out for the ones that are poisonous.

695
00:34:31,344 --> 00:34:34,544
Speaker 1: I was watching PBS, you were watching actual wildlife.

696
00:34:34,544 --> 00:34:37,743
Speaker 2: But here's what I think happened. So my mother says

697
00:34:37,783 --> 00:34:43,143
Speaker 2: that my television journalist career is because of rebellion because

698
00:34:43,183 --> 00:34:45,143
Speaker 2: we didn't have a TV and it was like read books,

699
00:34:45,263 --> 00:34:48,143
Speaker 2: play a do something else, be outside, go do things.

700
00:34:48,424 --> 00:34:51,303
Speaker 2: But when I would go to my friends homes, they

701
00:34:51,344 --> 00:34:54,584
Speaker 2: had a TV and guess where I was, well, yeah,

702
00:34:54,623 --> 00:34:57,024
Speaker 2: we would be out playing. As soon as I got

703
00:34:57,024 --> 00:34:59,623
Speaker 2: the chance to go in and sit down in front

704
00:34:59,663 --> 00:35:04,863
Speaker 2: of that thing, I was mes morazed, mes morized. So

705
00:35:04,944 --> 00:35:07,383
Speaker 2: I missed a lot of the shows that you all

706
00:35:07,703 --> 00:35:10,504
Speaker 2: know as core memories as kids, but I got them

707
00:35:10,544 --> 00:35:13,544
Speaker 2: later because I would like go over to friend's house

708
00:35:13,584 --> 00:35:16,143
Speaker 2: and then i'd see like one episode of something, and

709
00:35:16,183 --> 00:35:21,504
Speaker 2: then sad is when I would come back and be like, wo,

710
00:35:22,384 --> 00:35:26,143
Speaker 2: like keet up on it? Right? So Sesame Street and

711
00:35:26,183 --> 00:35:29,544
Speaker 2: all that. Yes, I saw it, but later on I

712
00:35:29,584 --> 00:35:32,463
Speaker 2: saw it a little bit after my age group would

713
00:35:32,464 --> 00:35:33,584
Speaker 2: have would have experienced.

714
00:35:33,584 --> 00:35:35,664
Speaker 1: You're like twenty two years old watching Sesame Street.

715
00:35:35,864 --> 00:35:38,663
Speaker 2: Twenty two? I do that right now? Okay, fair, okay,

716
00:35:38,703 --> 00:35:41,944
Speaker 2: to be fair. It is why Grover is still my

717
00:35:41,984 --> 00:35:42,464
Speaker 2: best friend.

718
00:35:42,783 --> 00:35:46,424
Speaker 1: You're a journalist. And now so near and far you say, Grover, Okay,

719
00:35:46,464 --> 00:35:48,984
Speaker 1: all right, so near and far? I got you.

720
00:35:49,104 --> 00:35:52,384
Speaker 2: I got you got true. He's the monster at the

721
00:35:52,464 --> 00:35:55,504
Speaker 2: end of the book, my favorite book. So I'm still

722
00:35:55,544 --> 00:35:59,703
Speaker 2: mesmerized by television. I'm to this day. I am still

723
00:36:00,223 --> 00:36:03,184
Speaker 2: it still draws me in where it's a whole world

724
00:36:03,263 --> 00:36:05,464
Speaker 2: that I feel like, I still am still exploring.

725
00:36:05,544 --> 00:36:08,104
Speaker 1: Are you still a TV person or? Because TV means

726
00:36:08,143 --> 00:36:08,584
Speaker 1: so many things.

727
00:36:08,743 --> 00:36:13,463
Speaker 2: Okay, look, TV is everything. It's Netflix, it's streaming, that's

728
00:36:13,504 --> 00:36:14,104
Speaker 2: where we're going.

729
00:36:14,143 --> 00:36:17,104
Speaker 1: It's your phone, Like, are you watching like TV? Are

730
00:36:17,104 --> 00:36:17,744
Speaker 1: you on your phone?

731
00:36:17,783 --> 00:36:19,743
Speaker 2: I'm doing all of it. Okay, I'm doing all of

732
00:36:19,783 --> 00:36:21,303
Speaker 2: it a lot of a lot of time on my

733
00:36:21,303 --> 00:36:24,623
Speaker 2: computer streaming. I was accused by my co anchor John

734
00:36:24,623 --> 00:36:26,863
Speaker 2: Berman of being the person in there that watches the

735
00:36:26,864 --> 00:36:30,823
Speaker 2: most social media. He's not wrong, yeah, but he's like,

736
00:36:30,864 --> 00:36:33,544
Speaker 2: I think you're addicted. And I was like, you are correct.

737
00:36:34,104 --> 00:36:36,944
Speaker 1: I think you said no, I'm employed. It's like, you

738
00:36:36,984 --> 00:36:37,584
Speaker 1: are correct.

739
00:36:38,344 --> 00:36:40,584
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm still mesmerized by it too.

740
00:36:40,663 --> 00:36:45,704
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, So so there's that, so that you

741
00:36:45,824 --> 00:36:47,584
Speaker 1: I've thrown you for a loop. I feel yeah, No,

742
00:36:47,663 --> 00:36:50,024
Speaker 1: the no plumbing, no TV is really like.

743
00:36:50,024 --> 00:36:51,864
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't my whole childhood, but it was

744
00:36:52,143 --> 00:36:52,703
Speaker 2: enough of it.

745
00:36:52,824 --> 00:36:55,623
Speaker 1: No, no even if it was an hour, like it's

746
00:36:55,623 --> 00:36:58,183
Speaker 1: worth telling if you went an hour with no electricity

747
00:36:58,263 --> 00:37:01,384
Speaker 1: or no no running water, that's a that's a breaking

748
00:37:01,424 --> 00:37:03,943
Speaker 1: news banner as far as I'm concerned. That's not nobody else.

749
00:37:03,984 --> 00:37:06,544
Speaker 1: Because there's the thing about you that is like you

750
00:37:06,584 --> 00:37:09,104
Speaker 1: are you certainly, I mean, there's you sort of came

751
00:37:09,183 --> 00:37:11,783
Speaker 1: up during the era of like a journalist.

752
00:37:12,143 --> 00:37:15,024
Speaker 2: Yes, journalism, Yeah.

753
00:37:15,303 --> 00:37:17,464
Speaker 1: Talk about that coming up in that era because that

754
00:37:17,544 --> 00:37:21,743
Speaker 1: was when like journalists, they all had opinions. They did,

755
00:37:21,824 --> 00:37:23,384
Speaker 1: but they were supposed to act like they didn't have

756
00:37:23,384 --> 00:37:25,464
Speaker 1: an opinion. True, you know, it's supposed to be. And

757
00:37:25,464 --> 00:37:26,303
Speaker 1: also there was if.

758
00:37:26,263 --> 00:37:29,464
Speaker 2: You go back and look at Edward R. Murrow, excuse me,

759
00:37:29,984 --> 00:37:33,024
Speaker 2: like there was a bend like right, and now there

760
00:37:33,024 --> 00:37:36,143
Speaker 2: are words in his name that are that are coveted

761
00:37:36,303 --> 00:37:40,264
Speaker 2: big j. Yeah, so I think, you know, telling the truth.

762
00:37:40,584 --> 00:37:43,743
Speaker 2: The other thing with journalism is because my mother read

763
00:37:43,783 --> 00:37:48,183
Speaker 2: a lot, words are still also mesmerizing to me. I

764
00:37:48,223 --> 00:37:53,423
Speaker 2: love learning different words even now and to be able

765
00:37:53,464 --> 00:37:56,584
Speaker 2: to understand something or have something be written beautifully.

766
00:37:58,024 --> 00:37:58,823
Speaker 1: I love that.

767
00:37:58,984 --> 00:38:02,263
Speaker 2: I love seeing other people do that. And one of

768
00:38:02,263 --> 00:38:04,143
Speaker 2: the things that I got to watch as a kid

769
00:38:04,183 --> 00:38:06,223
Speaker 2: when I would go into the house. You know, usually

770
00:38:06,263 --> 00:38:08,183
Speaker 2: it was kind of dark. You know, it's like, Okay,

771
00:38:08,223 --> 00:38:10,863
Speaker 2: the sun goes down, it's time to get inside. If

772
00:38:10,864 --> 00:38:13,784
Speaker 2: I'm at my friend's house, what was on sixty minutes

773
00:38:13,864 --> 00:38:17,504
Speaker 2: was on, twenty twenty was on, the news was on,

774
00:38:17,864 --> 00:38:21,783
Speaker 2: and so that was another window. And I loved the

775
00:38:21,824 --> 00:38:25,184
Speaker 2: way that stories were told on twenty twenty and sixty

776
00:38:25,223 --> 00:38:28,303
Speaker 2: minutes because I would always go, oh my god, I

777
00:38:28,344 --> 00:38:32,944
Speaker 2: didn't know that whoa, this is interesting and who are

778
00:38:32,984 --> 00:38:35,464
Speaker 2: these people doing this? And getting to ask the questions

779
00:38:35,824 --> 00:38:39,303
Speaker 2: and getting to go around the world on the company's dime.

780
00:38:40,344 --> 00:38:44,504
Speaker 2: What So I always tell people my international experience is

781
00:38:44,544 --> 00:38:47,663
Speaker 2: a little bit selfish as much as it was wanting

782
00:38:47,703 --> 00:38:51,544
Speaker 2: to serve, because I do still very much believe that

783
00:38:51,703 --> 00:38:56,584
Speaker 2: journalism is in service to the community and in service

784
00:38:56,703 --> 00:38:59,743
Speaker 2: to the population, and it shouldn't be in service to yourself.

785
00:39:00,663 --> 00:39:03,663
Speaker 2: But there is another part of that, which is it

786
00:39:03,663 --> 00:39:05,944
Speaker 2: helps you make a living, so that's in service to yourself,

787
00:39:06,424 --> 00:39:10,464
Speaker 2: and it opens your eyes to worlds that you probably

788
00:39:10,504 --> 00:39:14,184
Speaker 2: would never ever see, even if you're the richest person

789
00:39:14,263 --> 00:39:17,864
Speaker 2: in the world. For sure, right the access to things

790
00:39:19,183 --> 00:39:21,343
Speaker 2: to whether it be I mean, for me, it was

791
00:39:21,783 --> 00:39:27,944
Speaker 2: war coverage. I learned so many things from watching what

792
00:39:28,143 --> 00:39:33,183
Speaker 2: happens when a society completely falls apart or there's attacks

793
00:39:33,263 --> 00:39:37,064
Speaker 2: happening constantly. How do humans act? What do they do?

794
00:39:37,104 --> 00:39:42,304
Speaker 2: How did they survive? That was something that only generally

795
00:39:42,384 --> 00:39:45,584
Speaker 2: journalists or soldiers get, And it's for a journalist. You

796
00:39:45,663 --> 00:39:48,024
Speaker 2: get to be on the outside kind of watching all

797
00:39:48,064 --> 00:39:52,984
Speaker 2: this happen without having to take part in it. It

798
00:39:53,544 --> 00:40:00,863
Speaker 2: is horrifying and also a gift of understanding, because unfortunately

799
00:40:00,984 --> 00:40:04,343
Speaker 2: human beings have not figured out, even in twenty twenty six,

800
00:40:04,864 --> 00:40:10,384
Speaker 2: how to deal with their issues and not have deadly conflict.

801
00:40:11,183 --> 00:40:15,903
Speaker 2: Makes me. It enrages me on one level, but I

802
00:40:15,944 --> 00:40:20,823
Speaker 2: also understand that really the true battle is inside of us.

803
00:40:21,384 --> 00:40:23,783
Speaker 2: The true battle that causes us to act the way

804
00:40:23,824 --> 00:40:26,544
Speaker 2: that we do out there really has to do with

805
00:40:26,584 --> 00:40:30,184
Speaker 2: the conflicts that still exist in here. That is really

806
00:40:30,223 --> 00:40:32,303
Speaker 2: clear to me, and I'd argue that point down to

807
00:40:32,424 --> 00:40:34,464
Speaker 2: any damn body you put in front of me.

808
00:40:35,663 --> 00:40:38,104
Speaker 1: That's what's happening, That the conflict is inside of us

809
00:40:38,384 --> 00:40:40,783
Speaker 1: that we didn't externalize one percent.

810
00:40:41,344 --> 00:40:45,143
Speaker 2: It's ego, it's a desire to take something that you

811
00:40:45,263 --> 00:40:48,704
Speaker 2: want without having to pay for It's the.

812
00:40:48,263 --> 00:40:51,183
Speaker 1: The fear of your fear of the other. Instead of

813
00:40:51,263 --> 00:40:54,184
Speaker 1: saying I should investigate my fear, it becomes I should

814
00:40:54,183 --> 00:40:55,024
Speaker 1: demonize the other.

815
00:40:56,183 --> 00:41:00,424
Speaker 2: Happens every day in politics, it happens in geopolitics, it

816
00:41:00,464 --> 00:41:03,504
Speaker 2: happens in your own community, and sometimes it happens in

817
00:41:03,544 --> 00:41:04,144
Speaker 2: your own house.

818
00:41:04,303 --> 00:41:05,703
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, right.

819
00:41:05,984 --> 00:41:08,823
Speaker 2: And so that conflict I have it too. Like I

820
00:41:08,864 --> 00:41:12,104
Speaker 2: am not a saint, please, I have that conflict too.

821
00:41:12,143 --> 00:41:16,464
Speaker 2: That's why I know that this conflict if it got out, well,

822
00:41:16,504 --> 00:41:19,864
Speaker 2: I'd be a terror. That would be a terrible person.

823
00:41:21,743 --> 00:41:26,223
Speaker 2: But I've tried to understand what is that feeling that

824
00:41:26,303 --> 00:41:29,744
Speaker 2: I get when I feel threatened, right, or when someone

825
00:41:29,783 --> 00:41:32,424
Speaker 2: calls me a name? Why do you want to react?

826
00:41:32,584 --> 00:41:34,343
Speaker 2: Because sometimes I'm like, I want to punch you in

827
00:41:34,384 --> 00:41:37,064
Speaker 2: the face. But that's not what we do in our house.

828
00:41:37,584 --> 00:41:40,024
Speaker 2: In fact, my mother very early on had me sit

829
00:41:40,143 --> 00:41:45,423
Speaker 2: down and watch the three hour movie of Gandhi very

830
00:41:45,464 --> 00:41:48,623
Speaker 2: early on. So the first fight that I got into

831
00:41:48,703 --> 00:41:52,944
Speaker 2: a school, I got my butt kicked, I got my

832
00:41:53,064 --> 00:41:56,663
Speaker 2: back kicked no by another kid who thought I had

833
00:41:56,703 --> 00:42:00,263
Speaker 2: pulled her hair. And in fourth grade, Chandra kicked my

834
00:42:00,384 --> 00:42:03,423
Speaker 2: behind and I wouldn't fight back. Why wouldn't I fight back?

835
00:42:03,464 --> 00:42:06,304
Speaker 1: Oh, because she'd showed you Gandhi.

836
00:42:06,544 --> 00:42:08,703
Speaker 2: Thanks mom, Oh that's I mean, there's.

837
00:42:08,623 --> 00:42:12,623
Speaker 1: Lessons to take from Gandhi. But maybe she should also

838
00:42:12,663 --> 00:42:14,903
Speaker 1: read you the autobiography of Malcolm X to bounce it out.

839
00:42:16,263 --> 00:42:18,984
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not I understand the power of nonviolence,

840
00:42:19,024 --> 00:42:19,743
Speaker 1: but also.

841
00:42:19,743 --> 00:42:22,223
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I might have taken it a little

842
00:42:22,223 --> 00:42:27,223
Speaker 2: bit too far. Son. My friends laugh boy at that,

843
00:42:27,303 --> 00:42:31,024
Speaker 2: They're like, really, okay, No, I'm really not there. Yeah,

844
00:42:31,384 --> 00:42:34,623
Speaker 2: it was like nonviolent resistance when you are getting your

845
00:42:34,703 --> 00:42:38,943
Speaker 2: tail kicked. Yeah, maybe resistance is okay, you.

846
00:42:38,864 --> 00:42:43,304
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, maybe maybe resistance, Yeah, some resistance. Yeah.

847
00:42:43,344 --> 00:42:46,104
Speaker 2: So you know, but those are lessons that those are

848
00:42:46,143 --> 00:42:50,544
Speaker 2: again core memories that sit with me as I make

849
00:42:50,584 --> 00:42:54,024
Speaker 2: my way through the world, and I'm sometimes confounded that

850
00:42:54,183 --> 00:42:57,783
Speaker 2: people don't look inward a little bit more because the

851
00:42:57,864 --> 00:42:58,584
Speaker 2: answers are there.

852
00:42:59,703 --> 00:43:01,263
Speaker 1: So I guess I want to ask a little bit

853
00:43:01,263 --> 00:43:03,743
Speaker 1: about your journey from like, so, where'd you go to

854
00:43:03,743 --> 00:43:04,984
Speaker 1: a big JA journalism school?

855
00:43:05,143 --> 00:43:07,384
Speaker 2: University of Florida, Home with the Fighting Gators.

856
00:43:07,303 --> 00:43:09,544
Speaker 1: Well renowned Big Jay journalism. It is a big Ja

857
00:43:09,623 --> 00:43:12,783
Speaker 1: journalism So I would imagine when you get out that

858
00:43:12,864 --> 00:43:15,423
Speaker 1: there's a path that you know. Again, we're not talking

859
00:43:15,464 --> 00:43:18,584
Speaker 1: about a time no even knew the initial DEI, so

860
00:43:18,623 --> 00:43:21,424
Speaker 1: we're not talking about I would imagine that there's a

861
00:43:21,464 --> 00:43:23,383
Speaker 1: path they maybe tried to put you on, and you

862
00:43:23,504 --> 00:43:25,143
Speaker 1: must have tried to break out of the path or

863
00:43:25,183 --> 00:43:28,024
Speaker 1: did you quickly go I'm going out of I'm going overseas. No.

864
00:43:28,424 --> 00:43:31,024
Speaker 2: In fact, that was my mama's idea, and I thought her.

865
00:43:31,183 --> 00:43:33,384
Speaker 2: I was like, I am American. I'm going to be

866
00:43:33,464 --> 00:43:35,624
Speaker 2: in America, okay, and I'm going to tell the stories

867
00:43:35,663 --> 00:43:37,263
Speaker 2: in America and I'm going to show talk.

868
00:43:37,384 --> 00:43:38,783
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was the goal? Was the goal just to

869
00:43:38,783 --> 00:43:40,703
Speaker 1: be like an anchor on the news? What was the goal?

870
00:43:41,303 --> 00:43:44,064
Speaker 2: Okay? So I went back. I thought I had different

871
00:43:44,104 --> 00:43:46,383
Speaker 2: goals as an adult. I had told myself like, you

872
00:43:46,384 --> 00:43:48,544
Speaker 2: were way more high minded than you actually were.

873
00:43:48,743 --> 00:43:49,544
Speaker 1: Yeah.

874
00:43:49,584 --> 00:43:51,823
Speaker 2: I went back and someone actually someone sent it to me.

875
00:43:51,824 --> 00:43:53,863
Speaker 2: They're like, girl, did you say this? I'm like I did.

876
00:43:54,783 --> 00:43:58,463
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to be the next Barbara Walters, right,

877
00:43:58,504 --> 00:44:00,703
Speaker 2: because twenty twenty, because I watched a lot of twenty twenty.

878
00:44:00,824 --> 00:44:04,864
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And also she was the example the advatar, right.

879
00:44:05,104 --> 00:44:07,263
Speaker 2: And she had gone through so much so that's why

880
00:44:07,263 --> 00:44:09,984
Speaker 2: I talk about, you know, being black and being a woman,

881
00:44:10,424 --> 00:44:13,303
Speaker 2: like she talked about eventually some of the things she

882
00:44:13,384 --> 00:44:16,504
Speaker 2: was given, all these soft stories and you know, cute

883
00:44:16,504 --> 00:44:18,663
Speaker 2: sea whoop see things, and she wanted to do more

884
00:44:18,663 --> 00:44:21,223
Speaker 2: hard news and there's always that battle. And so I

885
00:44:21,263 --> 00:44:23,584
Speaker 2: was like, I'm gonna do hard news. I'm gonna go

886
00:44:23,663 --> 00:44:26,104
Speaker 2: out there and tell stories. And I had a professor

887
00:44:26,143 --> 00:44:30,544
Speaker 2: named doctor Burke, who was a former of Vietnam War correspondent,

888
00:44:31,104 --> 00:44:34,024
Speaker 2: and I'm sure that settled into my little brain because

889
00:44:34,064 --> 00:44:40,464
Speaker 2: he was hard. He was grumpy. He would cut us

890
00:44:40,504 --> 00:44:43,183
Speaker 2: off and be like, no, no, that's not how it is.

891
00:44:43,223 --> 00:44:44,183
Speaker 1: I don't need to hear the end of that.

892
00:44:44,223 --> 00:44:46,184
Speaker 2: Say right, you don't know what you were talking about.

893
00:44:46,303 --> 00:44:46,463
Speaker 1: Right.

894
00:44:46,584 --> 00:44:48,383
Speaker 2: He would tell us like, if you got into this

895
00:44:48,464 --> 00:44:52,104
Speaker 2: to make money, fortune and fame, get out. You're not

896
00:44:52,143 --> 00:44:55,343
Speaker 2: going to last three seconds. He was like, you're never

897
00:44:55,384 --> 00:44:57,423
Speaker 2: gonna get a job, and if you do, you're gonna

898
00:44:57,424 --> 00:44:59,664
Speaker 2: be getting coffee for somebody and you're gonna be sleeping

899
00:44:59,703 --> 00:45:01,783
Speaker 2: on the floor and you're not gonna have any you know.

900
00:45:01,944 --> 00:45:04,143
Speaker 2: I mean, he was he was like, this is not

901
00:45:04,464 --> 00:45:07,304
Speaker 2: this is no joke. And he wasn't wrong. He wasn't wrong.

902
00:45:07,384 --> 00:45:10,864
Speaker 2: The first many years of my career I made nothing.

903
00:45:11,064 --> 00:45:11,303
Speaker 2: I made.

904
00:45:11,303 --> 00:45:13,544
Speaker 1: It's a bit harder now for people coming to a journalist.

905
00:45:13,584 --> 00:45:16,303
Speaker 2: It kills me that when you look at the cost

906
00:45:16,344 --> 00:45:20,343
Speaker 2: of living, like the pay does not match still to

907
00:45:20,424 --> 00:45:23,944
Speaker 2: this day, in your first few jobs. So it's a

908
00:45:23,984 --> 00:45:27,343
Speaker 2: real it's a real commitment. But it also pains me

909
00:45:27,424 --> 00:45:31,024
Speaker 2: because if you come from not having any money, it's

910
00:45:31,143 --> 00:45:33,263
Speaker 2: very hard to stay in it.

911
00:45:33,384 --> 00:45:35,423
Speaker 1: That's where the privilege of these are one of those

912
00:45:35,424 --> 00:45:39,024
Speaker 1: careers where often people come into them who come from well, yeah,

913
00:45:39,064 --> 00:45:41,064
Speaker 1: because they have the ability to be broke or get

914
00:45:41,104 --> 00:45:42,703
Speaker 1: an internship where they don't make money. Yeah.

915
00:45:42,783 --> 00:45:45,263
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know mom was working in by then

916
00:45:45,584 --> 00:45:48,664
Speaker 2: my first job, I did an internship for free. Now

917
00:45:48,783 --> 00:45:51,104
Speaker 2: in some places they pay, so I think, you know,

918
00:45:51,143 --> 00:45:53,823
Speaker 2: their rules have been made, thank goodness, where you get

919
00:45:53,824 --> 00:45:56,064
Speaker 2: at least a minimum wage. But but again I was

920
00:45:56,104 --> 00:45:58,903
Speaker 2: making minimum wage. Like if you strung out how much

921
00:45:58,944 --> 00:46:00,744
Speaker 2: I was making and how many hours I was working,

922
00:46:00,824 --> 00:46:03,143
Speaker 2: I worked it out one day and I'm like, you're

923
00:46:03,143 --> 00:46:04,303
Speaker 2: making less than minimum.

924
00:46:04,024 --> 00:46:06,024
Speaker 1: Wag No, yeah, because you're not, because there's no clocking

925
00:46:06,064 --> 00:46:08,303
Speaker 1: out in the same way.

926
00:46:08,183 --> 00:46:10,344
Speaker 2: And I tell students. I'm like, do you like homework,

927
00:46:10,344 --> 00:46:13,384
Speaker 2: because if you don't get out because you are constantly

928
00:46:13,424 --> 00:46:18,303
Speaker 2: reading and learning. But yeah, I think that that school

929
00:46:18,544 --> 00:46:21,423
Speaker 2: it did prepare me for my first job. Like it did.

930
00:46:21,984 --> 00:46:24,183
Speaker 2: I can't say that I was good at it. I

931
00:46:24,303 --> 00:46:27,944
Speaker 2: was green and terrible, but it prepared me for the

932
00:46:28,064 --> 00:46:31,423
Speaker 2: kind of work that I wanted to do because they

933
00:46:31,424 --> 00:46:34,104
Speaker 2: were serious about it, and they wanted us to understand

934
00:46:34,143 --> 00:46:36,903
Speaker 2: that the gravity of doing what we do and the

935
00:46:36,944 --> 00:46:43,184
Speaker 2: ethics behind it. You know, they were very very serious

936
00:46:43,183 --> 00:46:45,983
Speaker 2: about making sure that we understood that, Hey, you can't

937
00:46:46,024 --> 00:46:48,224
Speaker 2: just go out there and say anything you want about anybody,

938
00:46:48,223 --> 00:46:50,984
Speaker 2: and you can't let anybody else do it as well. Right,

939
00:46:51,064 --> 00:46:52,783
Speaker 2: So you've got to do fact checking, and you've got

940
00:46:52,824 --> 00:46:55,703
Speaker 2: to think about what this is going to mean to someone, right,

941
00:46:55,824 --> 00:46:59,383
Speaker 2: mean to their reputation. And I do think about that

942
00:46:59,424 --> 00:47:01,743
Speaker 2: when I'm talking to someone. I'm like, this might be

943
00:47:01,783 --> 00:47:04,783
Speaker 2: the first and only time this person is on television.

944
00:47:04,824 --> 00:47:08,224
Speaker 2: But back then, right now, everybody's got their own personal

945
00:47:08,263 --> 00:47:12,904
Speaker 2: television calls. Right, But then it was like, think about

946
00:47:13,024 --> 00:47:14,943
Speaker 2: what this might mean. And it didn't mean I didn't

947
00:47:14,944 --> 00:47:18,783
Speaker 2: ask a hard question. It just meant realize the consequence

948
00:47:19,024 --> 00:47:22,064
Speaker 2: and you know, be sure about what it is your I.

949
00:47:22,064 --> 00:47:23,944
Speaker 1: Mean I learned that on the United Shades too, Like

950
00:47:24,384 --> 00:47:27,903
Speaker 1: any I wasn't really doing traditional journalism United, but.

951
00:47:27,904 --> 00:47:30,464
Speaker 2: You were asking the questions that we would ask.

952
00:47:30,464 --> 00:47:32,743
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, for sure and I was joking, but

953
00:47:32,783 --> 00:47:34,623
Speaker 1: we were backed by journalists and we wanted to and

954
00:47:34,663 --> 00:47:36,823
Speaker 1: we had to be journalistically rigorous, which I wanted to

955
00:47:36,824 --> 00:47:40,024
Speaker 1: be so, and you also sometimes were like sort of

956
00:47:40,064 --> 00:47:41,343
Speaker 1: the part of me was like, I want to make

957
00:47:41,384 --> 00:47:44,584
Speaker 1: sure this person. I this person's going to tell a

958
00:47:44,584 --> 00:47:47,263
Speaker 1: story they've never told on TV like this before. But

959
00:47:47,303 --> 00:47:49,143
Speaker 1: I also don't want to have them ring themselves out

960
00:47:49,183 --> 00:47:51,504
Speaker 1: on camera and then go good luck by and then

961
00:47:51,504 --> 00:47:53,464
Speaker 1: it airs months later and look at you wringing yourself

962
00:47:53,464 --> 00:47:55,984
Speaker 1: out on camera. And it was good for us, but

963
00:47:56,064 --> 00:47:58,143
Speaker 1: you're now like, you know, sort of being sensitive to

964
00:47:58,223 --> 00:48:00,504
Speaker 1: like how you how you hold people.

965
00:48:00,783 --> 00:48:03,384
Speaker 2: I think that is one of the lessons in journalism

966
00:48:03,464 --> 00:48:06,823
Speaker 2: that I learned that I didn't know from school. It

967
00:48:06,944 --> 00:48:10,823
Speaker 2: is that you know that you're telling someone's story or

968
00:48:10,824 --> 00:48:14,544
Speaker 2: having them tell their story, and that's a part of

969
00:48:14,584 --> 00:48:18,064
Speaker 2: their now history, but it's also a part of yours, yes,

970
00:48:18,584 --> 00:48:22,104
Speaker 2: and their history then sits in your body and your

971
00:48:22,183 --> 00:48:26,024
Speaker 2: heart and never goes away, and your history with them

972
00:48:26,303 --> 00:48:32,824
Speaker 2: never goes away, especially on complex, difficult, heartbreaking stories, which

973
00:48:32,864 --> 00:48:37,703
Speaker 2: we cover a lot, and so those ties they're not

974
00:48:37,824 --> 00:48:41,104
Speaker 2: easily untied. You may not speak to someone for months

975
00:48:41,104 --> 00:48:44,223
Speaker 2: and years. I was just in Las Vegas and I

976
00:48:44,303 --> 00:48:48,263
Speaker 2: was there after very shortly after the horrific shooting, the

977
00:48:48,544 --> 00:48:51,504
Speaker 2: deadliest mass shooting that we've seen in the United States.

978
00:48:52,143 --> 00:48:54,743
Speaker 2: And the first thing I did when I landed, I

979
00:48:54,783 --> 00:48:56,463
Speaker 2: was like, I haven't been here in a really long time.

980
00:48:56,743 --> 00:48:59,623
Speaker 2: Let me call this family whose daughter was killed and

981
00:48:59,663 --> 00:49:03,143
Speaker 2: had kids, right And I talked to the kids and

982
00:49:03,183 --> 00:49:05,864
Speaker 2: I interviewed her parents and I was like, hey, guys,

983
00:49:06,223 --> 00:49:08,023
Speaker 2: I'm in Vegas. I know it's been a long time

984
00:49:08,064 --> 00:49:10,423
Speaker 2: since we've talked, but I just want to see how

985
00:49:10,464 --> 00:49:12,744
Speaker 2: you're doing. And they're like, oh, we moved out of Vegas,

986
00:49:12,783 --> 00:49:17,303
Speaker 2: but we remember, we remember obviously our daughter and mother

987
00:49:17,384 --> 00:49:19,584
Speaker 2: and we're so glad that you reached out. But like

988
00:49:19,663 --> 00:49:21,303
Speaker 2: it never leaves you.

989
00:49:21,303 --> 00:49:23,383
Speaker 1: No, that's a lot that you would reach out because

990
00:49:23,424 --> 00:49:26,303
Speaker 1: that you've met a lot of people I have, and

991
00:49:26,904 --> 00:49:28,823
Speaker 1: sometimes a little bit of time you spent with them,

992
00:49:28,904 --> 00:49:30,743
Speaker 1: they're gonna remember refresh their lives because they were on

993
00:49:30,783 --> 00:49:33,383
Speaker 1: the TV. But you were in the middle of talking

994
00:49:33,424 --> 00:49:35,064
Speaker 1: to eight hundred people, you know what I mean.

995
00:49:35,424 --> 00:49:38,504
Speaker 2: But when I do remember, like I don't know, it

996
00:49:38,544 --> 00:49:41,224
Speaker 2: all comes like, it all comes flooding back. The pain

997
00:49:41,504 --> 00:49:44,704
Speaker 2: that they experienced and being in the room and being

998
00:49:44,743 --> 00:49:48,544
Speaker 2: with them, it all comes back and it's it's part

999
00:49:48,584 --> 00:49:49,144
Speaker 2: of my DNA.

1000
00:49:49,263 --> 00:49:50,863
Speaker 1: Now I feel the same way.

1001
00:49:50,904 --> 00:49:52,703
Speaker 2: Yeah, you must have had that same experience.

1002
00:49:52,783 --> 00:50:13,303
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. What was your first like out there

1003
00:50:13,303 --> 00:50:15,903
Speaker 1: on the road, like the thing where you were like, oh,

1004
00:50:15,944 --> 00:50:16,823
Speaker 1: I'm no, I'm in it.

1005
00:50:18,703 --> 00:50:23,784
Speaker 2: You know what it was in Oakland, California? Fair enough, Oakland, California.

1006
00:50:23,864 --> 00:50:24,904
Speaker 1: What what was the occasion?

1007
00:50:25,384 --> 00:50:27,464
Speaker 2: I reported in a lot of different places, but this

1008
00:50:27,544 --> 00:50:32,383
Speaker 2: one sat with me. You know, as a reporter that's

1009
00:50:32,424 --> 00:50:35,584
Speaker 2: used to covering conflicts, you know, shootings were you know,

1010
00:50:35,663 --> 00:50:39,183
Speaker 2: a big issue. And in the flat lands, right MacArthur

1011
00:50:39,223 --> 00:50:42,263
Speaker 2: Avenue and all that, you're well familiar. Yes, So I

1012
00:50:42,424 --> 00:50:45,744
Speaker 2: pitched this idea of like, let's spend forty eight hours

1013
00:50:46,223 --> 00:50:49,464
Speaker 2: in Oakland, in the flat lands, in the places where

1014
00:50:49,504 --> 00:50:51,463
Speaker 2: we hear a lot of police blodder. There's a lot

1015
00:50:51,464 --> 00:50:54,703
Speaker 2: of issues, right, And I was working in the Bay

1016
00:50:54,743 --> 00:50:58,183
Speaker 2: Area and local television at KTBU shout out to KTBU,

1017
00:50:58,223 --> 00:51:02,944
Speaker 2: shout out to the Bay And so they agreed. They said, okay,

1018
00:51:03,864 --> 00:51:06,464
Speaker 2: you'll go there. You'll spend you know, forty eight hours

1019
00:51:07,303 --> 00:51:11,863
Speaker 2: overnight staying with the family, and we did. And that

1020
00:51:12,024 --> 00:51:15,823
Speaker 2: night there was a shooting near the family's home. She

1021
00:51:15,904 --> 00:51:19,464
Speaker 2: had a little boy, little child, and we saw her

1022
00:51:19,544 --> 00:51:22,664
Speaker 2: running in and you know, checking putting the child down.

1023
00:51:25,344 --> 00:51:30,663
Speaker 2: And I'd covered so many murders and shootings there and

1024
00:51:30,783 --> 00:51:34,704
Speaker 2: I don't know that one just sat in my heart

1025
00:51:35,703 --> 00:51:38,784
Speaker 2: because you always see the story about the family who's

1026
00:51:38,783 --> 00:51:42,464
Speaker 2: lost someone who's whose loved one has been murdered, but

1027
00:51:42,743 --> 00:51:47,424
Speaker 2: you don't see all the other stuff right where this

1028
00:51:47,783 --> 00:51:50,503
Speaker 2: to them is a war zone every single day.

1029
00:51:50,703 --> 00:51:53,544
Speaker 1: Just because they didn't lose somebody, right, this doesn't mean

1030
00:51:53,544 --> 00:51:54,944
Speaker 1: they're not affected by right.

1031
00:51:55,183 --> 00:52:01,584
Speaker 2: Being around this, dealing with this is extremely anxiety provoking

1032
00:52:02,064 --> 00:52:05,703
Speaker 2: and trying to protect not only yourself but your child,

1033
00:52:06,183 --> 00:52:09,864
Speaker 2: this innocent being who's who learns this far too fast,

1034
00:52:10,464 --> 00:52:14,024
Speaker 2: the dangers of the streets. Right So it was just

1035
00:52:14,104 --> 00:52:17,423
Speaker 2: one of those things that that stuck with me where

1036
00:52:17,464 --> 00:52:19,823
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm in it, I can hear it,

1037
00:52:20,303 --> 00:52:23,304
Speaker 2: and I'm feeling it and I'm watching this person try

1038
00:52:23,384 --> 00:52:25,543
Speaker 2: and grapple with this. But I get to leave.

1039
00:52:27,263 --> 00:52:30,944
Speaker 1: That's again, that's my I'm sort of get to be

1040
00:52:30,984 --> 00:52:34,623
Speaker 1: here for a little bit and go and take it in. Yeah,

1041
00:52:34,663 --> 00:52:36,183
Speaker 1: but I get to go home. I get to do

1042
00:52:36,303 --> 00:52:37,743
Speaker 1: That's a lie from the very first episode of the

1043
00:52:37,783 --> 00:52:40,263
Speaker 1: United States when I was at the Klan at the end,

1044
00:52:40,303 --> 00:52:42,304
Speaker 1: I go, but I get to leave. Yeah.

1045
00:52:42,623 --> 00:52:46,584
Speaker 2: And so you know, I lived near Lake Merritt, and

1046
00:52:46,623 --> 00:52:48,064
Speaker 2: it's not without its problems as.

1047
00:52:47,984 --> 00:52:50,304
Speaker 1: Well, but it's different, not.

1048
00:52:49,864 --> 00:52:53,424
Speaker 2: That extreme, not like that, right, and so for me

1049
00:52:53,864 --> 00:52:55,144
Speaker 2: there is a guilt in it.

1050
00:52:55,544 --> 00:52:58,263
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, survivor's reorse or yeah, sort of like

1051
00:52:58,303 --> 00:53:00,743
Speaker 1: you feel like a little bit of a tourist. Yes,

1052
00:53:00,864 --> 00:53:02,663
Speaker 1: I get to sort of spend forty eight hours here

1053
00:53:02,743 --> 00:53:04,504
Speaker 1: but and sort of tell my story. But then I

1054
00:53:04,544 --> 00:53:06,703
Speaker 1: get to go back to the place I live that

1055
00:53:06,824 --> 00:53:08,584
Speaker 1: is safer than this, or I feel it's safer than

1056
00:53:08,584 --> 00:53:08,903
Speaker 1: this yere.

1057
00:53:08,984 --> 00:53:10,984
Speaker 2: Yeah, in my head, there's this mentality of trying to

1058
00:53:10,944 --> 00:53:14,064
Speaker 2: save something or someone from it, knowing that I can't,

1059
00:53:14,743 --> 00:53:16,864
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, I want to like open

1060
00:53:16,944 --> 00:53:18,144
Speaker 2: my just come.

1061
00:53:18,024 --> 00:53:21,343
Speaker 1: Live with me, like right, I mean literally, well, that's

1062
00:53:21,584 --> 00:53:22,783
Speaker 1: the next thing I want to ask you about. And

1063
00:53:22,783 --> 00:53:24,223
Speaker 1: then we're wrapping it up because I know you have

1064
00:53:24,344 --> 00:53:28,223
Speaker 1: many things to do. The thing I feel like I've

1065
00:53:28,223 --> 00:53:30,263
Speaker 1: seen you do and I would and I would point

1066
00:53:30,263 --> 00:53:31,863
Speaker 1: to this moment, but you may have a different moment.

1067
00:53:31,944 --> 00:53:34,143
Speaker 1: It's sort of except the fact that I'm a journalist,

1068
00:53:34,223 --> 00:53:36,623
Speaker 1: but I'm also a human being out here. It's I

1069
00:53:36,703 --> 00:53:39,904
Speaker 1: remember you. It wasn't called George Floyd Square at the time,

1070
00:53:41,183 --> 00:53:45,383
Speaker 1: but in the midst of twenty twenty COVID the news goes,

1071
00:53:45,384 --> 00:53:47,343
Speaker 1: wait a minute, something else has happened, and it's George

1072
00:53:47,344 --> 00:53:50,663
Speaker 1: Floyd's had been murdered by the Minneapolis police. And you're

1073
00:53:50,703 --> 00:53:53,623
Speaker 1: out there on the scene, as you are everywhere, but

1074
00:53:53,824 --> 00:53:56,823
Speaker 1: there would be that I remember specifically a clip of

1075
00:53:56,864 --> 00:53:58,743
Speaker 1: somebody basically like who are you and what are you

1076
00:53:58,824 --> 00:54:01,383
Speaker 1: doing here? And you sort of went maybe it was

1077
00:54:01,424 --> 00:54:03,984
Speaker 1: country Sarah came out of like not in the batley,

1078
00:54:04,183 --> 00:54:06,343
Speaker 1: just like, yes, I'm a person and I'm going to

1079
00:54:06,424 --> 00:54:09,224
Speaker 1: talk to you, and I'm not just going to pretend

1080
00:54:09,223 --> 00:54:11,823
Speaker 1: like I don't hear you that journalists do sometime, or

1081
00:54:12,064 --> 00:54:13,663
Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk to you like a journalist.

1082
00:54:13,663 --> 00:54:15,343
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk to you like a human being, which

1083
00:54:15,344 --> 00:54:17,504
Speaker 1: at that point in the country we were going through

1084
00:54:17,544 --> 00:54:20,544
Speaker 1: so much with COVID that we needed a human being

1085
00:54:20,783 --> 00:54:22,743
Speaker 1: out there. They wanted to trust a human being was

1086
00:54:22,743 --> 00:54:23,663
Speaker 1: covering this situation.

1087
00:54:23,904 --> 00:54:27,143
Speaker 2: I have learned this too, which sounds like something you

1088
00:54:27,143 --> 00:54:33,623
Speaker 2: should know. But human being first, everything else later. Human

1089
00:54:33,783 --> 00:54:34,943
Speaker 2: being fuss not.

1090
00:54:34,904 --> 00:54:36,823
Speaker 1: How a lot of journalists do it. It's like big

1091
00:54:36,904 --> 00:54:37,783
Speaker 1: j journalists.

1092
00:54:38,104 --> 00:54:43,223
Speaker 2: You know what it needs to be revisited, as the

1093
00:54:43,263 --> 00:54:47,984
Speaker 2: people's say, it needs to be really human being first.

1094
00:54:48,104 --> 00:54:52,584
Speaker 2: If someone and I remember, I think Bradley from sixty Minutes,

1095
00:54:53,424 --> 00:54:56,384
Speaker 2: there was a there was a Ed Bradley, Ed Bradley

1096
00:54:56,424 --> 00:54:59,343
Speaker 2: from sixteen Sorry, there was a story that he did

1097
00:54:59,384 --> 00:55:02,663
Speaker 2: where somebody I think was drowning or something was going on.

1098
00:55:03,104 --> 00:55:07,584
Speaker 2: I remember this, and I don't remember if there was criticians,

1099
00:55:07,623 --> 00:55:08,743
Speaker 2: but I think there might have been where he went

1100
00:55:08,783 --> 00:55:14,384
Speaker 2: up to try to help save somebody for criticize me

1101
00:55:14,504 --> 00:55:18,303
Speaker 2: all day long. I don't give a damn if if

1102
00:55:18,984 --> 00:55:22,183
Speaker 2: the journalist in me says I'm only here to observe

1103
00:55:22,344 --> 00:55:31,703
Speaker 2: and someone is drowning, fire me, because my humanity will

1104
00:55:31,743 --> 00:55:34,223
Speaker 2: be lost if I don't get in that darn water.

1105
00:55:34,864 --> 00:55:38,263
Speaker 2: And yes I can swim and go and pull that

1106
00:55:38,303 --> 00:55:38,823
Speaker 2: person out.

1107
00:55:40,064 --> 00:55:40,263
Speaker 1: Drop.

1108
00:55:40,464 --> 00:55:42,383
Speaker 2: I don't care, kill the story, do what you gotta do,

1109
00:55:43,743 --> 00:55:46,943
Speaker 2: because in the end, I do not want to look

1110
00:55:46,984 --> 00:55:51,943
Speaker 2: back and say I lost my humanity, because this job

1111
00:55:51,984 --> 00:55:55,904
Speaker 2: can make you lose it. Trust and believe the things

1112
00:55:55,944 --> 00:55:58,864
Speaker 2: that you see, the horrible things that you see human

1113
00:55:58,904 --> 00:56:03,423
Speaker 2: beings and due to each other is so impactful. And

1114
00:56:03,544 --> 00:56:06,064
Speaker 2: yes I get depressed, and yes I get anxious, and

1115
00:56:06,143 --> 00:56:08,584
Speaker 2: yes it lives in me, and yes it messes with me.

1116
00:56:09,064 --> 00:56:11,424
Speaker 2: Yes I cry, Yes I do all the things. Sometimes

1117
00:56:11,464 --> 00:56:13,624
Speaker 2: I scream in my pillows. Sometimes I scream at people.

1118
00:56:13,783 --> 00:56:15,263
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm walking down the street in New York and

1119
00:56:15,344 --> 00:56:17,783
Speaker 2: I'm just like, shot the power, right, I mean, it

1120
00:56:17,824 --> 00:56:22,504
Speaker 2: comes out in ways, right, But I am a human

1121
00:56:22,544 --> 00:56:27,544
Speaker 2: being first. So if humanity, the humanity in me gets lost,

1122
00:56:27,584 --> 00:56:30,663
Speaker 2: and I've told myself this, if you start to lose

1123
00:56:30,703 --> 00:56:33,184
Speaker 2: your humanity for real, for real, like you can start

1124
00:56:33,223 --> 00:56:36,423
Speaker 2: saying and thinking things that you know are inhumane, then

1125
00:56:36,464 --> 00:56:39,024
Speaker 2: you have to leave. You don't get to stay and

1126
00:56:39,064 --> 00:56:40,823
Speaker 2: do that. You don't have the privilege of staying and

1127
00:56:40,864 --> 00:56:43,944
Speaker 2: talking to people because if you lose that, you've lost everything.

1128
00:56:44,904 --> 00:56:47,863
Speaker 2: So that's where I am with that, and there are

1129
00:56:47,904 --> 00:56:53,743
Speaker 2: plenty of stories where I mean, look, watching an officer

1130
00:56:53,783 --> 00:56:56,144
Speaker 2: who has all the power and the one standing around

1131
00:56:56,464 --> 00:56:58,984
Speaker 2: with a knee on someone's neck and the guy screaming

1132
00:56:59,024 --> 00:57:04,983
Speaker 2: for his mama nearly killed me because I watched it

1133
00:57:05,703 --> 00:57:08,024
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. I was trying to

1134
00:57:08,024 --> 00:57:10,143
Speaker 2: get the timing and the cadence right. And how many

1135
00:57:10,183 --> 00:57:12,584
Speaker 2: times this was set in, how many times he said

1136
00:57:12,623 --> 00:57:16,624
Speaker 2: I can't breathe, And all of that still sits in

1137
00:57:16,664 --> 00:57:19,943
Speaker 2: me right, watching the crowd and people trying to help

1138
00:57:19,984 --> 00:57:24,784
Speaker 2: and that help not being accepted. I understand police policy,

1139
00:57:24,864 --> 00:57:28,104
Speaker 2: I understand all of that. I get it, but watching

1140
00:57:28,144 --> 00:57:35,584
Speaker 2: that it lives in my soul right, watching seeing bombs

1141
00:57:35,584 --> 00:57:38,664
Speaker 2: fall and seeing the result of that, seeing children dismembered

1142
00:57:38,664 --> 00:57:43,544
Speaker 2: and dead baby's bodies in hospitals, like what are we doing?

1143
00:57:43,784 --> 00:57:47,464
Speaker 2: What we do right? And showing that and saying I

1144
00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:51,544
Speaker 2: think you should see this because this is what war

1145
00:57:51,624 --> 00:57:55,264
Speaker 2: looks like. It's not it's not a game. It's not

1146
00:57:55,904 --> 00:57:58,144
Speaker 2: anything that you're thinking in your head like, oh, we

1147
00:57:58,184 --> 00:58:01,064
Speaker 2: should just bomb the hell out of them, damn it.

1148
00:58:01,104 --> 00:58:05,903
Speaker 2: Have you seen what they do? Have you experienced what

1149
00:58:05,984 --> 00:58:08,744
Speaker 2: they do? Have you felt the rattle in your chest

1150
00:58:09,224 --> 00:58:14,544
Speaker 2: and then the consequence of it. It's so ugly, it's

1151
00:58:14,584 --> 00:58:20,184
Speaker 2: it's so disgusting, and yet here we are doing it again.

1152
00:58:20,264 --> 00:58:24,144
Speaker 2: Here we are as human beings, not seeing that there

1153
00:58:24,184 --> 00:58:28,704
Speaker 2: is an alternative. We have some of the smartest minds ever.

1154
00:58:29,264 --> 00:58:32,104
Speaker 2: We have more information on our fingertips than ever in

1155
00:58:32,144 --> 00:58:40,983
Speaker 2: the history of humanity, but we haven't figured ourselves out yet.

1156
00:58:43,104 --> 00:58:45,104
Speaker 2: Why do I feel like I'm preaching a day you are?

1157
00:58:45,104 --> 00:58:46,304
Speaker 1: It's why I didn't want to. I don't want to

1158
00:58:46,344 --> 00:58:48,024
Speaker 1: interrupt the sermon. I was like, I was like, I

1159
00:58:48,064 --> 00:58:49,784
Speaker 1: feel like we could end it there.

1160
00:58:49,784 --> 00:58:51,184
Speaker 2: I have a couple more questions, and I just want

1161
00:58:51,224 --> 00:58:53,664
Speaker 2: to say to you, let me hold your hand, Okay,

1162
00:58:53,704 --> 00:58:59,904
Speaker 2: all right? Laughter is the cure, man. I I love

1163
00:58:59,984 --> 00:59:04,304
Speaker 2: comedians with every bit of my soul. I go down

1164
00:59:04,344 --> 00:59:08,024
Speaker 2: to the comedy cellar, spend time just sitting there listening

1165
00:59:08,064 --> 00:59:10,823
Speaker 2: to people coming up with their sets right, and then

1166
00:59:10,864 --> 00:59:15,343
Speaker 2: go down and listening. But comedians have a special role

1167
00:59:15,544 --> 00:59:18,704
Speaker 2: I think in our society very much like journalists. They're

1168
00:59:18,744 --> 00:59:23,504
Speaker 2: telling us the truth, but in your case, we get

1169
00:59:23,544 --> 00:59:27,104
Speaker 2: to laugh. I appreciate that because it's needed.

1170
00:59:27,384 --> 00:59:29,424
Speaker 1: Well, the thing I want to say is that people

1171
00:59:29,784 --> 00:59:32,344
Speaker 1: I get called journalists. I get called a journalist Freye

1172
00:59:32,344 --> 00:59:36,024
Speaker 1: regularly now people introduce me or say I love your journalism,

1173
00:59:36,064 --> 00:59:39,624
Speaker 1: And I'm sort of always to two labels I push

1174
00:59:39,664 --> 00:59:41,383
Speaker 1: back against, not because I'm ashamed of them, because I

1175
00:59:41,424 --> 00:59:45,144
Speaker 1: just don't know that I'm doing them. Is journalism and activism.

1176
00:59:45,344 --> 00:59:47,784
Speaker 1: Like people call me an activist, and I'm like, I'm not. No,

1177
00:59:47,864 --> 00:59:51,823
Speaker 1: an activist is a job. I'm engaging in activism. A

1178
00:59:51,864 --> 00:59:54,864
Speaker 1: journalist is a job. I'm using the tools of journalism.

1179
00:59:55,144 --> 00:59:56,423
Speaker 1: But I think one of the things that I ste

1180
00:59:56,464 --> 00:59:58,784
Speaker 1: clear of the title of journalist is because of the

1181
00:59:58,824 --> 01:00:01,584
Speaker 1: big jay label of like it's supposed to be like,

1182
01:00:02,264 --> 01:00:05,823
Speaker 1: these are just the facts. Yeah, and I don't want

1183
01:00:05,824 --> 01:00:07,944
Speaker 1: anybody to think that I think that I'm just that

1184
01:00:08,024 --> 01:00:08,904
Speaker 1: I don't have an opinion.

1185
01:00:09,104 --> 01:00:12,544
Speaker 2: They are the facts, but the facts with content with context, right,

1186
01:00:12,664 --> 01:00:14,863
Speaker 2: and and so the context part is a tricky part.

1187
01:00:14,944 --> 01:00:16,384
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1188
01:00:16,144 --> 01:00:18,264
Speaker 2: But you do consider yourself a comedian, do you not?

1189
01:00:18,384 --> 01:00:19,944
Speaker 1: I do? That's the one. I'll take one.

1190
01:00:19,984 --> 01:00:23,903
Speaker 2: I'll take Yeah, I think that there is and look

1191
01:00:23,904 --> 01:00:26,504
Speaker 2: at me showing my opinions. What kind of journalists am I?

1192
01:00:27,664 --> 01:00:31,584
Speaker 2: But comic relief because you guys will slap us in

1193
01:00:31,624 --> 01:00:34,664
Speaker 2: the faith with truth. Yeah, and we will laugh about it.

1194
01:00:34,824 --> 01:00:35,024
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1195
01:00:35,304 --> 01:00:37,104
Speaker 2: Right, if I slap somebody in the face with truth,

1196
01:00:37,144 --> 01:00:37,863
Speaker 2: I get slapped back.

1197
01:00:38,344 --> 01:00:38,544
Speaker 1: Right.

1198
01:00:38,744 --> 01:00:41,024
Speaker 2: Just look at my look at my feet, right, people

1199
01:00:41,024 --> 01:00:43,823
Speaker 2: come at you. But you know we we've all made

1200
01:00:43,824 --> 01:00:45,823
Speaker 2: our mistakes. There there have been jokes I'm sure that

1201
01:00:45,864 --> 01:00:47,984
Speaker 2: have gone awry. We have seen you know that there

1202
01:00:47,984 --> 01:00:50,503
Speaker 2: has been a whole thing about what people are saying

1203
01:00:50,504 --> 01:00:53,584
Speaker 2: and whether that's a joke or not. But ultimately, if

1204
01:00:53,624 --> 01:00:58,384
Speaker 2: you can make someone laugh, you have just cleansed their soul.

1205
01:00:58,664 --> 01:01:00,624
Speaker 1: I think you've opened them up to think something about

1206
01:01:00,824 --> 01:01:02,423
Speaker 1: a new way. I think the thing that I'm very

1207
01:01:02,424 --> 01:01:05,184
Speaker 1: conscious of now is a lot of my comedy brethren,

1208
01:01:05,304 --> 01:01:11,224
Speaker 1: and mostly brethren like Manchestrin, have used their their skills

1209
01:01:11,264 --> 01:01:15,943
Speaker 1: comedians to sell lies. And so I feel a very

1210
01:01:15,984 --> 01:01:18,184
Speaker 1: I feel a responsibility now to be like, I gotta

1211
01:01:18,344 --> 01:01:19,544
Speaker 1: I gotta be clearly.

1212
01:01:19,224 --> 01:01:23,104
Speaker 2: Not that that's really that's how So what do you

1213
01:01:23,184 --> 01:01:25,224
Speaker 2: mean selling well?

1214
01:01:25,224 --> 01:01:27,144
Speaker 1: Which I mean you know a lot of a lot

1215
01:01:27,184 --> 01:01:29,744
Speaker 1: of I'm a political comedian and I've I've libeled myself

1216
01:01:29,744 --> 01:01:33,064
Speaker 1: that for years, but I'm not a I'm not backing

1217
01:01:33,144 --> 01:01:38,384
Speaker 1: candidates generally, and I'm certainly not going to the front

1218
01:01:38,464 --> 01:01:43,784
Speaker 1: row of their inaugurations, and I'm certainly not in a

1219
01:01:44,424 --> 01:01:48,383
Speaker 1: text messages with them and then saying, Hey, if you

1220
01:01:48,424 --> 01:01:49,984
Speaker 1: do me this favor, can you do me, I'll do

1221
01:01:50,024 --> 01:01:52,744
Speaker 1: you a favor. I'm not in a transactional state with

1222
01:01:52,824 --> 01:01:55,864
Speaker 1: any politician. And I love barbar Lee, the mayor of Oakland,

1223
01:01:55,864 --> 01:01:58,184
Speaker 1: and I love Latifa Siemon, my congress woman, but I'm not.

1224
01:01:58,264 --> 01:02:00,823
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't have a transactional relationship. But I'm

1225
01:02:00,824 --> 01:02:05,264
Speaker 1: also not using comedy to to pretend like I'm smart

1226
01:02:05,384 --> 01:02:08,664
Speaker 1: and know things, and I'm you know, I'm trying everything.

1227
01:02:08,664 --> 01:02:11,903
Speaker 1: I cannot say Joe Rogan, but uh, but like, I

1228
01:02:11,944 --> 01:02:14,144
Speaker 1: just think that there's been a lot of comics under

1229
01:02:14,144 --> 01:02:17,744
Speaker 1: that Joe Rogan tree who were not political comedians formally,

1230
01:02:18,024 --> 01:02:20,864
Speaker 1: who who are doing it for access and for power.

1231
01:02:21,344 --> 01:02:24,264
Speaker 1: Then Americans are suffering the consequences for it. And I

1232
01:02:24,304 --> 01:02:26,944
Speaker 1: sort of feel like there's a there's that wing of

1233
01:02:26,984 --> 01:02:31,384
Speaker 1: the comedy tree that is Dick Gregory, George Carlin, Richard

1234
01:02:31,384 --> 01:02:34,744
Speaker 1: Pryor Wanda Sykes is under there Margaret Show where it's

1235
01:02:34,784 --> 01:02:37,584
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, we actually want These jokes are

1236
01:02:37,584 --> 01:02:39,744
Speaker 1: supposed to try to point people in the right. They're

1237
01:02:39,784 --> 01:02:42,984
Speaker 1: supposed to be funny, but also there's a message to

1238
01:02:43,064 --> 01:02:44,064
Speaker 1: very at least do no harm.

1239
01:02:45,944 --> 01:02:46,624
Speaker 2: There's messaging.

1240
01:02:46,664 --> 01:02:49,144
Speaker 1: There's a way in which we're sort of fighting. We're

1241
01:02:49,144 --> 01:02:50,704
Speaker 1: trying to do jokes at healthy and.

1242
01:02:50,624 --> 01:02:53,224
Speaker 2: This is why people call you an activist. See, yeah,

1243
01:02:53,344 --> 01:02:54,784
Speaker 2: you're right, You're right, You're right.

1244
01:02:55,424 --> 01:02:59,744
Speaker 1: Uh. Before I let you go, I just also want

1245
01:02:59,784 --> 01:03:03,384
Speaker 1: to give you so much love and credit and respect

1246
01:03:03,864 --> 01:03:06,424
Speaker 1: for being so open about your health journey.

1247
01:03:06,624 --> 01:03:06,823
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1248
01:03:08,664 --> 01:03:09,944
Speaker 1: That has done a lot for people.

1249
01:03:11,104 --> 01:03:13,264
Speaker 2: It's probably done more for me in some ways. I

1250
01:03:13,544 --> 01:03:15,863
Speaker 2: wasn't expecting to do it, Honestly, I wanted to keep

1251
01:03:15,864 --> 01:03:20,584
Speaker 2: it quiet, and I'm not, damn it, I'm not. But

1252
01:03:21,264 --> 01:03:28,904
Speaker 2: I am so surprised, pleasantly surprised, which doesn't happen often.

1253
01:03:29,104 --> 01:03:31,584
Speaker 2: I don't get surprised often, and certainly don't get pleasantly

1254
01:03:31,664 --> 01:03:38,344
Speaker 2: surprised off there at the amount of care and thoughtfulness

1255
01:03:38,424 --> 01:03:44,784
Speaker 2: and love and deep conversation that I've had in this

1256
01:03:45,224 --> 01:03:49,744
Speaker 2: sister and brotherhood of dealing with cancer. It is remarkable

1257
01:03:50,344 --> 01:03:54,383
Speaker 2: how something that is so terrifying, right and that can

1258
01:03:54,424 --> 01:03:59,704
Speaker 2: be so devastating, has kind of opened my brain, but

1259
01:03:59,744 --> 01:04:04,064
Speaker 2: it's also allowed people to have deep conversations with me

1260
01:04:04,144 --> 01:04:08,184
Speaker 2: who I just met right just we don't talk about

1261
01:04:08,184 --> 01:04:10,584
Speaker 2: the weather, because a lot of times women will come

1262
01:04:10,624 --> 01:04:12,744
Speaker 2: up to me and say like, Hi, I'm so and so,

1263
01:04:13,504 --> 01:04:15,704
Speaker 2: and I'll say hi, I'm you know Sarah, and they're like, oh,

1264
01:04:15,744 --> 01:04:18,344
Speaker 2: we know who you are. And then two seconds later,

1265
01:04:18,664 --> 01:04:20,024
Speaker 2: right where and I think we're going to talk about

1266
01:04:20,024 --> 01:04:22,224
Speaker 2: the weather or you know, something in the news that day,

1267
01:04:22,384 --> 01:04:24,624
Speaker 2: they're like, they grab a hand. They're like, I'm a

1268
01:04:24,664 --> 01:04:27,144
Speaker 2: survivor too, or my mom's a survivor too. And then

1269
01:04:28,304 --> 01:04:32,904
Speaker 2: the entire world of conversation is open because we understand

1270
01:04:32,904 --> 01:04:35,503
Speaker 2: each other and what that was like, and so now

1271
01:04:35,544 --> 01:04:38,064
Speaker 2: we don't have to bullshit. We can just get straight

1272
01:04:38,104 --> 01:04:40,184
Speaker 2: to the heart of the things that matter to us.

1273
01:04:40,264 --> 01:04:42,823
Speaker 2: And I'm I'm really thankful for that.

1274
01:04:44,984 --> 01:04:47,064
Speaker 1: And I know it's a journey. But how are you

1275
01:04:47,104 --> 01:04:47,664
Speaker 1: doing today.

1276
01:04:47,864 --> 01:04:50,983
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good, I'm I am The doctor says

1277
01:04:51,024 --> 01:04:54,424
Speaker 2: cancer free. He's like, but, and I'm like, you always

1278
01:04:54,504 --> 01:04:57,984
Speaker 2: have to add negativity to my life. He's like, but

1279
01:04:58,104 --> 01:05:01,383
Speaker 2: it's a sneaky little disease. And we got to watch

1280
01:05:01,384 --> 01:05:05,624
Speaker 2: it and we gotta do. But it really reset me and

1281
01:05:05,664 --> 01:05:08,464
Speaker 2: it's changed me. But it has changed me for the better.

1282
01:05:09,304 --> 01:05:13,304
Speaker 2: And that is a shocked my system because I thought

1283
01:05:13,384 --> 01:05:17,343
Speaker 2: I would not be better after cancer mentally, Yeah, I

1284
01:05:17,384 --> 01:05:18,704
Speaker 2: thought I would be far worse.

1285
01:05:18,904 --> 01:05:21,624
Speaker 1: Well, I also think because because of what we talked

1286
01:05:21,624 --> 01:05:25,744
Speaker 1: about earlier, our relationship with you changed through specifically those

1287
01:05:25,784 --> 01:05:28,224
Speaker 1: moments of twenty twenty. Yeah, our relations views as a

1288
01:05:28,304 --> 01:05:30,624
Speaker 1: journalist in the broadcaster, we saw you open up. Then

1289
01:05:30,624 --> 01:05:32,184
Speaker 1: you were on that show United Shains of America. We

1290
01:05:32,224 --> 01:05:33,944
Speaker 1: saw you open up on that show. I think what

1291
01:05:34,064 --> 01:05:35,224
Speaker 1: that show did a great job with that.

1292
01:05:35,664 --> 01:05:37,744
Speaker 2: Uh He's like, I'm just saying that host did a

1293
01:05:37,744 --> 01:05:38,664
Speaker 2: great job. He's good.

1294
01:05:38,824 --> 01:05:40,383
Speaker 1: So that when you came to this, it was like,

1295
01:05:40,864 --> 01:05:45,784
Speaker 1: not journalist Sarah Sidner has cancer, it's Sarah. You know

1296
01:05:45,784 --> 01:05:48,104
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like we were You had connected

1297
01:05:48,184 --> 01:05:50,544
Speaker 1: us to you over the last several years in a

1298
01:05:50,544 --> 01:05:52,304
Speaker 1: way that if you hadn't done that, it might just

1299
01:05:52,304 --> 01:05:53,944
Speaker 1: be journalist Sarah Sidner has cancer.

1300
01:05:54,064 --> 01:05:56,144
Speaker 2: That makes my heart grow because I didn't think of

1301
01:05:56,184 --> 01:05:56,664
Speaker 2: it that way.

1302
01:05:56,744 --> 01:05:58,823
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's the way. I'm glad. I'm glad I

1303
01:05:58,864 --> 01:06:00,823
Speaker 1: said it because that's exactly what it was. I know

1304
01:06:00,864 --> 01:06:02,624
Speaker 1: that for me when I got to seeing it, I

1305
01:06:02,744 --> 01:06:05,024
Speaker 1: liked your work. I remember we actually had a Twitter

1306
01:06:05,024 --> 01:06:06,944
Speaker 1: exchange at one point. Did I think where it was

1307
01:06:07,064 --> 01:06:09,824
Speaker 1: and it was not testy, but like I said something

1308
01:06:09,864 --> 01:06:12,184
Speaker 1: and you sort of corrected me. Was like, and wait

1309
01:06:12,224 --> 01:06:14,544
Speaker 1: a minute, it was it was actually connected to uh

1310
01:06:15,304 --> 01:06:18,464
Speaker 1: standing rock. Somebody had said somebody and it wasn't. But

1311
01:06:18,504 --> 01:06:19,823
Speaker 1: I was like, oh okay, Like I was.

1312
01:06:19,744 --> 01:06:22,224
Speaker 2: Like, she yeah, she turned around and said something.

1313
01:06:22,264 --> 01:06:24,104
Speaker 1: She said something, And from that point I started really

1314
01:06:24,064 --> 01:06:26,383
Speaker 1: folks like following you and then to get to the

1315
01:06:26,384 --> 01:06:28,863
Speaker 1: point of like everything else and George Floyd and we

1316
01:06:28,904 --> 01:06:32,304
Speaker 1: became friends and we did the Unity Shades. So yeah, absolutely,

1317
01:06:32,344 --> 01:06:34,383
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm an I'm a sort of I'm

1318
01:06:34,424 --> 01:06:36,863
Speaker 1: like the public. I saw this happen over time. So

1319
01:06:36,904 --> 01:06:40,344
Speaker 1: by the time you are revealed about your health challenges,

1320
01:06:40,424 --> 01:06:44,544
Speaker 1: how we were all like, that's she's what we are.

1321
01:06:44,584 --> 01:06:46,544
Speaker 1: We are we are with her, and she's with us.

1322
01:06:46,584 --> 01:06:48,823
Speaker 2: That's just that lady, like the news lady is that's

1323
01:06:48,824 --> 01:06:52,304
Speaker 2: Sarah Sarah exactly. I'm glad. I hope that that's a thing,

1324
01:06:52,304 --> 01:06:54,784
Speaker 2: because I don't want people to see me as this

1325
01:06:54,984 --> 01:06:59,023
Speaker 2: like this entity, right, I am human to my core

1326
01:06:59,144 --> 01:07:04,463
Speaker 2: with all the fallible, ridiculous, silly things. You know, all

1327
01:07:04,504 --> 01:07:08,343
Speaker 2: the things. I'm all of those things, good, bad, in sideways,

1328
01:07:08,384 --> 01:07:11,744
Speaker 2: it's all there. Mistakes are He's going to be made.

1329
01:07:11,744 --> 01:07:13,624
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say the wrong thing because I talk too much.

1330
01:07:13,664 --> 01:07:16,983
Speaker 2: I mean, you know it's gonna happen. But I love

1331
01:07:17,064 --> 01:07:20,944
Speaker 2: human beings and I want for us to be better.

1332
01:07:24,424 --> 01:07:26,903
Speaker 1: Is there any cause anything you want to let people

1333
01:07:26,944 --> 01:07:29,584
Speaker 1: know about, anything you want people to sort of focus on,

1334
01:07:29,744 --> 01:07:32,944
Speaker 1: because this podcast is about helping people get better and

1335
01:07:32,944 --> 01:07:34,104
Speaker 1: pointing people in the right direction.

1336
01:07:34,664 --> 01:07:39,584
Speaker 2: Look the Breast Cancer Research Fund. I met this young

1337
01:07:39,664 --> 01:07:43,144
Speaker 2: lady named Saudia Zapp and she was their communications director,

1338
01:07:43,144 --> 01:07:48,424
Speaker 2: so she's good at communicating. I call her. I'm like, girl,

1339
01:07:48,664 --> 01:07:52,904
Speaker 2: I felt this weird thing in my arm. Should I

1340
01:07:52,944 --> 01:07:55,064
Speaker 2: go to the doctor? I one time called her because

1341
01:07:55,104 --> 01:07:58,504
Speaker 2: you get brain fog. I said, girl, what kind of

1342
01:07:58,504 --> 01:08:01,504
Speaker 2: cancer did we have? Because I'm going into an interview

1343
01:08:01,504 --> 01:08:02,064
Speaker 2: and I forgot.

1344
01:08:02,184 --> 01:08:02,704
Speaker 1: I forgot.

1345
01:08:03,224 --> 01:08:04,984
Speaker 2: I knew I had breast cancer, but there are it

1346
01:08:05,024 --> 01:08:07,823
Speaker 2: turns out, right a lot of different types. And so

1347
01:08:08,104 --> 01:08:11,104
Speaker 2: she was like, she text me back, she goes, this

1348
01:08:10,984 --> 01:08:14,904
Speaker 2: is what we have? Yeah, Because she had breast cancer

1349
01:08:14,984 --> 01:08:16,823
Speaker 2: to and we have the same So that's why it

1350
01:08:16,944 --> 01:08:23,143
Speaker 2: was but her introduction into the world in which she works,

1351
01:08:23,704 --> 01:08:28,384
Speaker 2: which their goal is to eradicate breast cancer, like to

1352
01:08:28,544 --> 01:08:31,064
Speaker 2: get rid of it, to end it right. And so

1353
01:08:31,744 --> 01:08:34,984
Speaker 2: it is all these researchers and at first a small group.

1354
01:08:35,424 --> 01:08:37,464
Speaker 2: It's you know, it was fifteen out it's like one hundred.

1355
01:08:38,264 --> 01:08:42,664
Speaker 2: But they have an incredible group of researchers and they

1356
01:08:42,704 --> 01:08:47,744
Speaker 2: focus on all manner of things, including the fact that

1357
01:08:47,784 --> 01:08:53,344
Speaker 2: black women. They the statistics are terrible. First of all,

1358
01:08:53,424 --> 01:08:57,224
Speaker 2: the cancers are generally more aggressive in black women. And

1359
01:08:57,264 --> 01:08:59,704
Speaker 2: it's not just because people are like, oh life starle, no, no, no, no, no,

1360
01:08:59,904 --> 01:09:02,704
Speaker 2: it's the type of cancer that black women often get.

1361
01:09:03,264 --> 01:09:06,304
Speaker 2: But the statistics, the fact that you know, you are

1362
01:09:06,384 --> 01:09:08,744
Speaker 2: forty percent more likely to die if you're a black

1363
01:09:08,784 --> 01:09:10,584
Speaker 2: woman with breast cancer than if you're a white woman

1364
01:09:10,584 --> 01:09:14,384
Speaker 2: with four twenty percent. And when I heard that, I

1365
01:09:14,384 --> 01:09:16,704
Speaker 2: had never heard that statistic before until I got cancer.

1366
01:09:16,704 --> 01:09:18,824
Speaker 2: When I started like doing the thing that I do

1367
01:09:18,864 --> 01:09:20,944
Speaker 2: as a journalist, which is like, you know, going down

1368
01:09:20,984 --> 01:09:22,944
Speaker 2: a rabbit hole, and I was like, this can't be right.

1369
01:09:22,984 --> 01:09:24,264
Speaker 2: And then I checked it in like three or four

1370
01:09:24,264 --> 01:09:30,504
Speaker 2: American Cancer. Sorry, I was like, how right? And so

1371
01:09:30,544 --> 01:09:33,784
Speaker 2: they have people that are specifically looking at why that

1372
01:09:33,944 --> 01:09:38,064
Speaker 2: is and trying to figure it out. I cannot be

1373
01:09:38,184 --> 01:09:41,664
Speaker 2: in more love with our scientists than I am after

1374
01:09:41,704 --> 01:09:46,504
Speaker 2: my cancer diagnosis. The work that they do it is

1375
01:09:47,264 --> 01:09:50,824
Speaker 2: literally curing us, but it's also helping us live with

1376
01:09:50,864 --> 01:09:54,744
Speaker 2: it in ways that we've never The treatments are different

1377
01:09:55,184 --> 01:09:58,304
Speaker 2: now than they were twenty years ago. They figured out

1378
01:09:58,384 --> 01:10:01,704
Speaker 2: cocktails to give you, not the kind you drink I wish,

1379
01:10:02,064 --> 01:10:05,224
Speaker 2: but you know, cocktails of drugs. The way that they

1380
01:10:05,304 --> 01:10:07,344
Speaker 2: give you chemo now they give it to you with

1381
01:10:08,064 --> 01:10:10,984
Speaker 2: something that stops nausea, something that they've give you a

1382
01:10:11,144 --> 01:10:14,344
Speaker 2: steroids so that when you get it your body doesn't crumble.

1383
01:10:14,904 --> 01:10:18,064
Speaker 2: I worked throughout my whole Yeah, no, I noticed five

1384
01:10:18,064 --> 01:10:21,224
Speaker 2: months of chemo. I worked and except for one day,

1385
01:10:21,264 --> 01:10:22,544
Speaker 2: the day that I would get it, because there's a

1386
01:10:22,544 --> 01:10:27,584
Speaker 2: long process. How is that even possible? Because of science?

1387
01:10:28,504 --> 01:10:29,464
Speaker 1: Because of science?

1388
01:10:30,104 --> 01:10:30,704
Speaker 2: Is that simple?

1389
01:10:30,704 --> 01:10:31,624
Speaker 1: Shout out to science.

1390
01:10:31,664 --> 01:10:33,864
Speaker 2: Shout out to science, and that includes the doctors and

1391
01:10:33,984 --> 01:10:38,784
Speaker 2: the oncologists and the radiologists. We are in an incredible

1392
01:10:38,864 --> 01:10:41,544
Speaker 2: time with the technology that we have. As bad as

1393
01:10:41,544 --> 01:10:44,624
Speaker 2: people you know, are worried about our technology. There is

1394
01:10:44,664 --> 01:10:48,384
Speaker 2: a chance that things like AI can can eradicate these

1395
01:10:48,384 --> 01:10:52,824
Speaker 2: things make things better quickly, find cancers early, right in

1396
01:10:52,904 --> 01:10:58,464
Speaker 2: ways that the human eye can't. So this organization is

1397
01:10:58,504 --> 01:11:03,304
Speaker 2: an incredible resource. They've got resources online BCRF.

1398
01:11:02,744 --> 01:11:06,944
Speaker 1: Dot org called Breast Cancer Breast Cancer Research Fund, Breast

1399
01:11:06,944 --> 01:11:07,904
Speaker 1: Cancer Research Fund.

1400
01:11:08,024 --> 01:11:12,744
Speaker 2: And I have had such a warm feeling from them

1401
01:11:12,784 --> 01:11:14,984
Speaker 2: because they invite you in to see, like this is

1402
01:11:15,304 --> 01:11:17,824
Speaker 2: this is our lab and I still haven't made it

1403
01:11:17,864 --> 01:11:19,864
Speaker 2: because there was breaking news and we went to war,

1404
01:11:19,904 --> 01:11:22,664
Speaker 2: but anyway, but but they want you to see, like,

1405
01:11:22,744 --> 01:11:24,904
Speaker 2: here's what we're up to, and here are the things

1406
01:11:24,944 --> 01:11:27,904
Speaker 2: we're working on, whether it's triple negative or metastatic. Man,

1407
01:11:27,904 --> 01:11:30,464
Speaker 2: I've now met women that have cancer for the rest

1408
01:11:30,544 --> 01:11:35,344
Speaker 2: of their lives and they're still living their lives, which

1409
01:11:35,464 --> 01:11:40,384
Speaker 2: is right. They're not crumpled in a ball on the floor, right,

1410
01:11:40,504 --> 01:11:43,624
Speaker 2: They're trying to run marathons and doing this and that. Right,

1411
01:11:43,784 --> 01:11:47,224
Speaker 2: they're doing incredible things. But it's only because of the

1412
01:11:47,264 --> 01:11:52,104
Speaker 2: way in which science has advanced, right, and so this organization,

1413
01:11:52,224 --> 01:11:56,304
Speaker 2: I'm I'm down with the BCRF, all.

1414
01:11:56,304 --> 01:11:58,784
Speaker 1: Right, thank you for that, and my lass, who are

1415
01:11:58,784 --> 01:11:59,184
Speaker 1: you with me?

1416
01:11:59,584 --> 01:12:00,064
Speaker 2: I'm with you?

1417
01:12:00,104 --> 01:12:01,744
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what I thought. I thought it was like, oh.

1418
01:12:01,664 --> 01:12:02,984
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that was easy. I was like, where are

1419
01:12:03,024 --> 01:12:03,304
Speaker 2: we going?

1420
01:12:03,544 --> 01:12:10,264
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, no, We're We're done? Where or dies? Yes?

1421
01:12:10,304 --> 01:12:12,944
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying, yes, thank you, I'm with you,

1422
01:12:12,984 --> 01:12:18,224
Speaker 1: thank you, No pleasure. So that was my conversation with

1423
01:12:18,264 --> 01:12:20,704
Speaker 1: my friend. Sarah Sidner is great to connect with her.

1424
01:12:20,784 --> 01:12:22,544
Speaker 1: We as I say this all the time, but we

1425
01:12:22,584 --> 01:12:24,424
Speaker 1: had truly never had a long conversation like that. The

1426
01:12:24,464 --> 01:12:26,464
Speaker 1: longest conversation we had before this was when she was

1427
01:12:26,544 --> 01:12:30,304
Speaker 1: on United States of America. Uh. She mentioned the Breast

1428
01:12:30,304 --> 01:12:32,984
Speaker 1: Cancer Research Fund, So shout out to them and please

1429
01:12:33,304 --> 01:12:34,704
Speaker 1: if you want to go check them out, you can

1430
01:12:34,784 --> 01:12:39,224
Speaker 1: go to give dot bc RF dot org. That's give

1431
01:12:39,744 --> 01:12:42,944
Speaker 1: dot bc RF dot org. Again. She's training for New

1432
01:12:43,024 --> 01:12:45,624
Speaker 1: York City Marathon, which is I think anybody who trains

1433
01:12:45,664 --> 01:12:48,104
Speaker 1: for marathon or runs a marathon is like, it's one

1434
01:12:48,144 --> 01:12:50,544
Speaker 1: of the greatest human achievements is running a marathon when

1435
01:12:50,544 --> 01:12:54,264
Speaker 1: you're not a marathon runner by profession. I've never run

1436
01:12:54,304 --> 01:12:57,144
Speaker 1: a marathon, but yeah, so thank you, Sarah. Thanks to

1437
01:12:57,224 --> 01:13:00,264
Speaker 1: Rabigren Productions, thanks to Pushkin Industries. Thanks to who Knows

1438
01:13:00,304 --> 01:13:03,904
Speaker 1: Best Productions, which is me special. Thanks to Chris Dowd

1439
01:13:03,904 --> 01:13:06,664
Speaker 1: from Fishbone for the music. I always appreciate that. Chris.

1440
01:13:06,704 --> 01:13:08,704
Speaker 1: ME and Chris talked last week. Apparently there's new Fishbone

1441
01:13:08,784 --> 01:13:10,784
Speaker 1: music in the works. We'll have them on when that

1442
01:13:10,824 --> 01:13:13,624
Speaker 1: comes out. And also remember, I'm going to read it

1443
01:13:13,704 --> 01:13:16,224
Speaker 1: right here. It says right here, do something good for yourself,

1444
01:13:16,504 --> 01:13:19,424
Speaker 1: for your community, and for the world. Huh. I should

1445
01:13:19,424 --> 01:13:22,544
Speaker 1: probably do that for me too, Huh. Do something good

1446
01:13:22,584 --> 01:13:25,984
Speaker 1: for yourself. That's that's good advice. Come ou see you

1447
01:13:25,984 --> 01:13:30,104
Speaker 1: next week. Next week. Guest Shannon Lee