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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome the Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Tuglas, and

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Speaker 1: it's the Halloween season once more. So we are re

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Speaker 1: releasing one of our favorite creepy episodes from last year,

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Speaker 1: on the Wind to Go, or as I wanted to

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Speaker 1: call it, eight My birth Day. Yes, yes, that was

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Speaker 1: your original pitch for the title episode. We did not,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it's creepy subject matter and it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: at heart, it's a monster, a monster's idea, and it's

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Speaker 1: a monster that seems to be picking up more and

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Speaker 1: more in popular culture. Windigo uh symbolism played heavily into

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Speaker 1: expect for the first season of TV's Hannibal, and in

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Speaker 1: Sleepy Hollow season two, we will be seeing a wind

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Speaker 1: to Goo and and teen Wolf. They're already already of course,

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Speaker 1: you're already a window got So this is the thing

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Speaker 1: about people finding about out about your cool monsters. They

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Speaker 1: end up showing up, I know. And then one hand

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yes, it's finding its rightful place and

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Speaker 1: pop culture, and then you're like, oh yeah, and maybe

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Speaker 1: this is what Algernon Blackwood really wanted, though. We'll see maybe.

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Speaker 1: January six eight. I went to see the sick man

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Speaker 1: today and he's a pitiful looking devil. They had him

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Speaker 1: with about six blankets and he still was nearly freezing.

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Speaker 1: I can do nothing for him. January twelve. I went

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Speaker 1: to see him today and he looks worse than ever.

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Speaker 1: I gave him a dose of Castor Royal, but he

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Speaker 1: he says his heart is freezing. He keeps insisting he'll

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Speaker 1: become a cannibal. He wants the Algonquins to kill him

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Speaker 1: before he gets worse. January. Friend Sis came here and

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Speaker 1: asked me if I would read some prayers for the

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Speaker 1: sick man. He doesn't look like a human being. He

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Speaker 1: seems to be terribly swollen in the body and face.

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Speaker 1: The sight of him is enough to frighten any person.

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Speaker 1: The poor Algonquin slept very little here for the last

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Speaker 1: nineteen days since he arrived. They have been watching him

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Speaker 1: all time. I don't know how this will end. January one,

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Speaker 1: Friendsois came from me last night and I went with him.

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Speaker 1: I told him we ought to take some rope with

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Speaker 1: us and tie him up if we could. The sound

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Speaker 1: of him was terrible. It was like the calling of

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Speaker 1: a wild animal. We tied him with the ropes and

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Speaker 1: I left to find some more, but it couldn't find any.

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Speaker 1: And when I got back, the cords around his arms

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Speaker 1: were already breaking. The algonquins asked what we should do.

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Speaker 1: They said that when he got up, he would kill

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Speaker 1: all of us. I told them to do what they

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Speaker 1: had to do is I had no more ropes which

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Speaker 1: to bind it. That was the account of Francis work

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Speaker 1: Beaten Uh the Ordney HBC clerk at the Trout Lake

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Speaker 1: Outpost the winter of eighteen ninety six during the alleged

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Speaker 1: Windigo possession of napapen Auger. Edited slightly for for clarity's sake,

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Speaker 1: but otherwise exactly what's in the history books. And we

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring that bit to your attention because what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about is a creature or a possession that

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Speaker 1: has to deal with cannibalism. Yeah, and even though the

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Speaker 1: creature itself is obviously a creature of myth. We've talked

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Speaker 1: before about the power of myth, the power of paranormal

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Speaker 1: scripts within a culture, as well as the real life

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Speaker 1: incidences that have allegedly occurred because of or alongside the

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Speaker 1: Wind to Go belief. Because if the oral account of

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Speaker 1: this particular Wind to Go possession story, as collected by

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Speaker 1: the University of Alberta's Nathan D. Carlson, holds true, then

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Speaker 1: the Algonquin tribes people gave Napapen boiling bear grease an

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Speaker 1: attempt to cure him after this, uh this account that

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Speaker 1: I read, and then when that didn't work, they executed

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Speaker 1: him with an axe, cutting off his head and bearing

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Speaker 1: it separate from his body. Now, there are various problems,

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Speaker 1: of course, with any account of cannibalism, just just cannibalism alone,

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Speaker 1: much less when you start involving supernatural uh in material

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, and that's the thing about Window that

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Speaker 1: is so interesting is it really highlights this issue of cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before. It's very hard to

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Speaker 1: really pin down cannibalism what has actually happened, um with

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Speaker 1: humans for sure, Actually in nature it's very easy to explain,

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Speaker 1: right because they are not ashamed of it. They're not ashamed,

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Speaker 1: and they have a purpose, a real clear purpose to

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Speaker 1: their cannibalism. And you have, um, the sexual cannibalism in

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Speaker 1: orb spiders, right, that helps in terms of sexual reproduction, fitness.

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Speaker 1: And then in tiger sharks you have siblified, right, you

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Speaker 1: have a tiger that eats excuse me, a tiger shark

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Speaker 1: that eats a sibling because it's an easy source of energy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just pure economics. It's a harsh world. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you have to reabsorb energy back into the the winning prospects,

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Speaker 1: and that's just how it goes. But of course in

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Speaker 1: human culture, the economics may still hold true, but we

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Speaker 1: have all of these layers of moral concerns of society

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Speaker 1: and culture. They just complicate the equation. Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: when you say the economics, you're talking about survival cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: In other words, you're just at the end of your

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Speaker 1: rope and you may be with one who could provide

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Speaker 1: you with a bit of energy, or perhaps there is

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Speaker 1: even a body who that has recently passed that someone uses.

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Speaker 1: And we have many accounts of this survival cannibalism in history.

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Speaker 1: Their counts that are proven, and then there are accounts

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Speaker 1: that are sort of forever being argued about, such as

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Speaker 1: the Dolmar Party, where some saying well, maybe they didn't

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Speaker 1: resort to survival cannibalism. Whethers say yes, some say well

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Speaker 1: the bones, there's no bone evidence that they did, and

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Speaker 1: others say, well, well they wouldn't know on the bones,

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Speaker 1: they would have eaten the soft flesh, and of course

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't the evidence of that wouldn't survive. And then

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Speaker 1: you know how many people are going to come back

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Speaker 1: from a chaotic trip to the mountains and be like, woa,

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Speaker 1: I only survived because I ate my friend Caleb. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's just probably something that you're going to admit at

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Speaker 1: cocktail parties. Right, Um, so, yeah, you've got the survival cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: And then, just to complicate things a little bit further,

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Speaker 1: we have these accounts of cultural rituals which may or

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Speaker 1: may not be symbolic cannibalism, right, They may actually have

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Speaker 1: occurred or occurred in different ways that we don't think

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Speaker 1: is cannibalistic. Yeah. Well, I mean you always have the

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Speaker 1: the outsider viewing some sort of cannab supposedly cannibalistic ceremony

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Speaker 1: or hearing about it. You're having Westerners observed or hear

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Speaker 1: about a ritual that that from the people that they

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Speaker 1: view as primitive, and so you know, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: tack down the actual truth of the matter. Yeah. Actually,

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Speaker 1: if you want to look at a good example of

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Speaker 1: this and someone who actually further this idea of cannibalism,

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Speaker 1: you can look to Columbus, who encountered the Arawak people

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Speaker 1: in Hispaniola during the fifteenth century, and they warned him

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Speaker 1: of another tribe, the carab that eight people, which it

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Speaker 1: appears this other tribe never existed. So this has been

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Speaker 1: really hard for anthropologists to go through and to try

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Speaker 1: to figure out. But as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 1: this other tribe just wasn't a reality. So it may

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Speaker 1: have just been for them this story about another tribe

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Speaker 1: just kind of a boogeyman, a boogeyman right telling the

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Speaker 1: night there's another tribe out there and they're so bad

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Speaker 1: they eat people. You don't want to be like that,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want them to come for you, right,

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they just wanted, you know, Columbus to hang

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Speaker 1: around and they were like, we need to get him

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Speaker 1: to stay here with us and not go exploring. So

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Speaker 1: in addition, Columbus may have mistaken the ritual of keeping

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Speaker 1: a loved one's bones around the house. So that's what

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Speaker 1: the Arrow Act people did, and he may have mistaken

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Speaker 1: that for evidence of cannibalism, and of course the whole

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Speaker 1: thing is ridiculous too when you realize that Columbus comes

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Speaker 1: bearing his his Catholic faith, and of course Catholicism, like

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Speaker 1: a lot of Christianity, is rich in this symbol symbolic

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Speaker 1: consumption of Christ's blood and flesh, which even though you're

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Speaker 1: not actually consuming blood and flesh, uh, it is, it

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Speaker 1: is symbolic cannibalism at at heart, right, which we see

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Speaker 1: in so many other cultures. The problem, of course, is

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Speaker 1: that Columbus was the authority on all matters foreign at

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Speaker 1: that point, so people are like, so where'd you go,

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Speaker 1: what'd you see? What you experience? And then whatever he

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Speaker 1: said became sort of the gospel. Yeah, and that's one

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Speaker 1: of the ms you have throughout history too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: going back to plenty of the Elder and all these

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Speaker 1: guys where you just have certain voices and there aren't

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Speaker 1: a lot of there's not a lot of discussion about

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Speaker 1: the matter, but you know, this guy said that there

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Speaker 1: are cannibals living in Africa, and that remains sort of

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Speaker 1: the voice of truth for a matter of centuries. So

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Speaker 1: that's why The Wind to Go is such an interesting

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Speaker 1: thing to look at, because it really gets at the

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Speaker 1: heart of the taboo of cannibalism, but also the psychology

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Speaker 1: of the ways in which we behave when we have

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Speaker 1: these folk tales as stand ins for for what becomes

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Speaker 1: a reality. Yeah. So I want you to imagine a dark,

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Speaker 1: gaunt giant that haunts the woods, clad only in matted hair,

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Speaker 1: and it's peering outitude from the wild depths, with blood

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Speaker 1: red eyes as wild as sinister and sinister as those

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Speaker 1: of an owl, with claws that are curl and muscles

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Speaker 1: that are coiled with the strength of a bear, and

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Speaker 1: its teeth are eager, and its foul tongue is longing

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Speaker 1: for the taste of human flesh that sounds cuddly. Yeah. Yeah, Now,

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Speaker 1: this is some thing that is The creature is known

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Speaker 1: to different North American tribal groups um. And when we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the geography here, we're talking about French Canadian

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Speaker 1: territory um and the Algonquins are they figure in this

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Speaker 1: quite a bit as well as a couple of the

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Speaker 1: other tribes. Yeah, the Algonquins as one of the most

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Speaker 1: populous and widespread North American native language groups, and uh

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Speaker 1: at different times it composed like a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: different tribes. You know, there did a lot of different

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Speaker 1: tribes that would spoke the Algonquin tongue, and there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of shared beliefs among them, and they they

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Speaker 1: thrived in the harsh world of northern North America, a

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Speaker 1: land of vast, unforgiving wilderness, brutal winners, particularly during the

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Speaker 1: Little Ice Age era in the seventeenth to nineteenth centuries,

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Speaker 1: which correlates exactly with a lot of this exploration by

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Speaker 1: French Canadians who met up with these different tribes. And

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about this more, but they began to um

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Speaker 1: actually adopt some of these folk tales of the win

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Speaker 1: to go. And I also wanted to mention that it

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Speaker 1: goes by wakaw Witigo with tikio and weendigo long ago

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Speaker 1: Windigo Witigo and we ti go Tigo. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: a corporation secretly is based on cannibalism. It's right, we tigo,

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Speaker 1: you can we tigo to um. And the cool thing

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Speaker 1: about this is that the Windigo really sort of describes

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Speaker 1: two different things at play here. One is the beast

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Speaker 1: that you described who lives in that forest waiting to

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Speaker 1: feast on a human. The other is a cannibalistic spirit

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Speaker 1: that can possess a human. Yeah, and that spirit kind

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Speaker 1: of walks the barrier between the world and the world

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Speaker 1: of the spirits. And of course that's a very important

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Speaker 1: area in the tales and the belief systems in the

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Speaker 1: world view of the the first people of North America. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and if you look at the Algonquins, they they really

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Speaker 1: focus on these spirits as as a sort of cautionary

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Speaker 1: all to people during these very harsh winters not to

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Speaker 1: turn to cannibalism, because they're saying that if you eat

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Speaker 1: the flesh of another, well, your soul is now susceptible

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Speaker 1: to the wind to go. Yeah. There there were a

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Speaker 1: number of causes, a number of things that could turn

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Speaker 1: you into a window go. Most of them are are

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Speaker 1: based in diet and food and and hunger. Um. So

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Speaker 1: you might be cursed by a sorcerer, always a possibility.

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Speaker 1: You know, it'll happen if you are yourself. If you

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Speaker 1: yourself are a sorcerer, you might seek the transformation in yourself,

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Speaker 1: always an option, all right. You might trigger the change.

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Speaker 1: If you fast too long or feast too heavily, so

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Speaker 1: a little too much food, a little too little food,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna potentially open yourself up to the window Goes caress.

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Speaker 1: But most importantly are all of all, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: if you if you are forced to consume human flesh,

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Speaker 1: or if you're tricked into doing so, even in a dream,

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Speaker 1: then the window go can reach out to you, touch

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Speaker 1: your soul and bring on this steady and horrible change,

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Speaker 1: And then you might feel ice in your heart longing

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Speaker 1: for flesh. Yeah, because that's uh, that's that's the big

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Speaker 1: thing right there. Um. There are a number of symptoms.

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Speaker 1: According to the Algonquin Reports catalog by Nathan D. Carlson,

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Speaker 1: the symptoms include stupor, catatonia, depression, paranoia, and orexia or

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Speaker 1: the inability to hold down food, nausea, vomiting, emaciation, glazed eyes,

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Speaker 1: bodily or facial swelling, violent shouting, hallucinations of family members

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Speaker 1: as food animals, particularly as beavers, and finally, this unstoppable

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Speaker 1: urge to consume human flesh. Yeah. There was one account

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Speaker 1: that was reading in a separate book where like a

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Speaker 1: mother was was potentially turning into a window. Go and

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Speaker 1: she was telling her she's matter or children. She's saying,

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Speaker 1: you all look like beavers to me. Now wow, But

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Speaker 1: but it's that. But the big thing that like the

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Speaker 1: major symptoms and the ultimate symptoms are the unstoppable urge

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Speaker 1: to consume human flesh and this chill in your in

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Speaker 1: your torso, meaning in your heart, as your heart becomes

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Speaker 1: this lump of ice, that's right, as the transformation occurs.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and when we get back,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about psychosis. All right, we're back. We're just

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Speaker 1: talking about the symptoms in the folk tales of the

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Speaker 1: of the Wind to Go and uh, and how your

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Speaker 1: heart may seem to become this lump of of of

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Speaker 1: ice and you have this irresistible urge to consume human flesh. Now,

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Speaker 1: there were a few cures curative measures, that were also

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Speaker 1: related in the folk tales. But I think it is

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Speaker 1: interesting for you talking about the curative measures, is that

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Speaker 1: people took this folklore and then they began to exhibit

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Speaker 1: these symptoms. And this is what that psychosis is, These

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Speaker 1: cases of people actually coming down with not actually turning

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Speaker 1: into these sort of werewolf like creatures, but actually connating

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Speaker 1: some dastardly acts. Yeah, because, on one hand, as as

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Speaker 1: Nathan D. Carlson points out in his excellent article reviewing

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Speaker 1: Wittico and Ethno History of donable Monsters in the Athabaska

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Speaker 1: District of Northern Alberta nineteen kien Um, this was not

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Speaker 1: just a you know, folk tale. If it was told,

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Speaker 1: this was something in which there was a lot of belief.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of fear, he says, quote in

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Speaker 1: the collective belief systems of pre twenty one century Algonquins.

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Speaker 1: Contrary to the opinions of some modern academics, as discussed below,

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Speaker 1: the Wittigo condition was not a legendary fabrication. For example,

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Speaker 1: in early eighteen ninety six, Richard Young, the Anglican Bishop

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Speaker 1: of the Athabaska District, wrote the following in a letter

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Speaker 1: journal to the Evangelical Fathers in the Church Missionary Society. Quote,

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Speaker 1: the Indians have a great terror of the so called

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Speaker 1: windigoose or cannibals. They believe that after eating human flesh,

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Speaker 1: their heart becomes a lump of ice, and no one

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Speaker 1: alive is safer them. Assert as all of this sounds

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Speaker 1: to us, it is a real terror to the untutored Indian.

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Speaker 1: So there's a little obviously there's a bit of xenophobia

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Speaker 1: and uh and and racism and in that uh, that

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Speaker 1: particular portrayal, but but still it underlines that this was

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Speaker 1: this was serious. That and if you're in a situation

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Speaker 1: where you have been forced to resort to survival cannibalism,

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Speaker 1: and then it's known or even if it's known only

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Speaker 1: to you, you you return with shame. Perhaps they other

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Speaker 1: members of your your group know that this occurred, and

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Speaker 1: before you know what, you're ostracized and maybe you feel

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Speaker 1: and there are a number of these symptoms, like if

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Speaker 1: there's a whole list of possible symptoms, and if you

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Speaker 1: begin if you experience one of them or feel like

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Speaker 1: you experience one of them, uh, combined with the guilt

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Speaker 1: that you feel, then how long before you begin manifesting

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Speaker 1: this this paranoid idea you were transforming. Yeah, let's set

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Speaker 1: this seam for this too. Or we're talking about these

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Speaker 1: sort of starvation winters that would occur in in this

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Speaker 1: part of the world, um, particularly as you said, during

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Speaker 1: that period from the seventy century to the nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you have people who would sort of

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Speaker 1: collectively get together as families during that time and band

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Speaker 1: together and try to survive. But there is still a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of isolation. So you might be with five

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Speaker 1: six oven of your family members, um, you know, out

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Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, with this wind whistling or

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Speaker 1: this wind howling. And when you look at these algonquin

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Speaker 1: Um depictions, the wind is a huge force here. So

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Speaker 1: I don't have you ever been like on the mountain before,

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Speaker 1: and and um, there's just huge amounts of wind coming

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Speaker 1: in at your structure. If you're in a tent or

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Speaker 1: in a cabin, yeah, yeah, it's just if you're you're

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Speaker 1: out in the open, it's just whipping by. It's all

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Speaker 1: you can hear in your ears. And if you're in

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Speaker 1: a structure or even you know, in the shelter of

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Speaker 1: a tree or or or some stone, and it's just

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Speaker 1: whistling by, and it's and it varies, it's it's this

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Speaker 1: changing tone almost the song. Yeah, and yeah. I remember

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Speaker 1: when I was in Costa Rica, Monteverde and I was

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Speaker 1: I spent a couple of nights in a cabin on

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Speaker 1: the top of the mountain there and the first night

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is beautiful, It's gorgeous. The

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Speaker 1: second night I was like, it's this is awful. I

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Speaker 1: cannot get any sleep. The wind is howling. The third

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Speaker 1: night I started to feel like I was going crazy.

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Speaker 1: So imagine bumps of this going on. I want to say,

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Speaker 1: if you resort to cannibalism in Monteverdi, that's on. You.

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Speaker 1: Don't try and pin that on a wind to go. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing, right, So I go out with a friend.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna go try to trap something. You know, maybe

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Speaker 1: he breaks his leg. You know, things aren't looking good.

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Speaker 1: Form so awesome, and I have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: his meat and then as we as you said, come

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Speaker 1: back to camp or to your cabin and you're feeling

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Speaker 1: the shame for it. Um Now, I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: point out that Kevin Vulcan a professor of psychology. He's

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Speaker 1: often called on as a behavioral expert on TV shows

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Speaker 1: and they're like, he categorizes it as an extreme form

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Speaker 1: of cabin fever. So again, you've got harsh environmental factors there.

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Speaker 1: You're with a couple of people and things can go awry.

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Speaker 1: You're with a bunch of people that you love but

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Speaker 1: are also maybe driving you a little crazy. Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and because that's one of the common tropes of the

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Speaker 1: wind to go story is you have like a mom

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Speaker 1: or a dad or even both that go nuts and

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Speaker 1: start eating the kids. And then you know, you eat

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Speaker 1: one kid, and you eat the steck again, and then

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Speaker 1: and then it just gets out of hand. Yeah, Vulgan says,

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Speaker 1: it becomes a compulsion. So there you are in your cabin,

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Speaker 1: the wind howling for months on end, and you began

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Speaker 1: to really think that you are the wind and go right,

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Speaker 1: it's it's taken hold of you. You're feeling icing in

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Speaker 1: your heart and uh, your your child is starting to

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Speaker 1: look like a drumstick, yeah or beaver. Yeah. All right,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna continue talking talking about that particular strain, but

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Speaker 1: just to go back presented cures that that we're explored

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Speaker 1: for for the wind to go situation. Carlson relates several

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Speaker 1: from different sources, but they include drinking high wines by

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Speaker 1: the fire, which sounds rather pleasant. I would say that

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Speaker 1: should be your first stop on any attempt to treat

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Speaker 1: a suspected wind to go situation. Next, the hit the

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Speaker 1: consumption of heated or even boiling animal flats, fats. So

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Speaker 1: you have some some moose meat, bear meat, what have you.

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Speaker 1: You heat to heat the fat up, get it nice

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Speaker 1: and boiling, and then you drink it. Now, both of

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Speaker 1: these methods uh drinking by the fire and drinking hot

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Speaker 1: animal fat. The idea is that it would help UH

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Speaker 1: burn away the ice that is formed in the heart.

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Speaker 1: That's the key to the window go There was another

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Speaker 1: tail that I believe Carlson related in which there was

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Speaker 1: a group of window goes and they were they were

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Speaker 1: just a complete terror and you know, eat everyone in sight.

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Speaker 1: And they were particularly hard to deal with because on

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Speaker 1: one hand, window goes were said to be bulletproof, you know,

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Speaker 1: or bullets didn't affect them, and the only way to

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Speaker 1: to really kill them was to deal with that icy heart.

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Speaker 1: But these window goes had taken their icy hearts out

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Speaker 1: and store them elsewhere, so they were they weren't not

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Speaker 1: susceptible to that. Yeah. So um so those are some options. Also,

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Speaker 1: you could of course get a spirit medium to use

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Speaker 1: a shaking tent ritual, which is a special tint in

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Speaker 1: which spirits could be summoned. But if these didn't work,

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Speaker 1: the only thing to do was to tie the window

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Speaker 1: go down and hack it to pieces with an axe

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Speaker 1: bearing the pieces so as to keep it from becoming

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Speaker 1: whole again and killing everyone inside. Now, someone by the

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Speaker 1: name of Jack Fiddler and okay cream Member actually took

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Speaker 1: that to heart and kind of became the van helsing

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Speaker 1: for his community of window Goes. He claimed to have

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Speaker 1: slayed fourteen people who were possessed, and he was in

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Speaker 1: prison when he murdered a woman who he says was

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Speaker 1: on the verge of turning into a windingo. So just

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Speaker 1: so you know, there were people out there that we're

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Speaker 1: trying to actually, you know, stop it before it started

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Speaker 1: what they really thought was going to be a possession.

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Speaker 1: And of course we have so many different examples of

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Speaker 1: people who actually did this to their families, who actually

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Speaker 1: ate their family. So you can see why someone like

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Speaker 1: Jack Fiddler might really take this to heart as his cause,

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00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: his his reason for being. Yeah, and now, of course

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Speaker 1: one of the of course, the problems we mentioned with

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Speaker 1: the cannibalism and cannibism stories, so the window Goes stories

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Speaker 1: were we're told in around the campfire and by a

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00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: bi bi algonquin drives people who really love stories and

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Speaker 1: told stories and the nature of stories they are told

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Speaker 1: as is that you you take on stories as your

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Speaker 1: own that are other people's. You you prop up a

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00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: story by saying you were there when you weren't. All

399
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: of these things happened. The fish gets a little larger

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Speaker 1: with each telling, etcetera. And then you have the French

401
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: Canadian voyagers, the travelers who are who are who are

402
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 1: meeting these people trading stories with them, and of course

403
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: they're early into telling stories as well. Uh So we

404
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,199
Speaker 1: can't take every story to heart, but some of them

405
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: are are are actually really well found at that for instance, uh,

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Speaker 1: the swift Runner kids, Now, this was a cree trapper

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Speaker 1: who serially murdered and consumed the bodies of his wife

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Speaker 1: and five children. And this was near Athabaska Landing Trading

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Speaker 1: Post in the North the Central in north central Alberta

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Speaker 1: in the winner of eighteen seventy eight. And all the

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Speaker 1: murders except the last one, we're more of a clear

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Speaker 1: case of starvation cannibalism. But then the last one, well,

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Speaker 1: i'll just read you what he had to say when

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00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 1: when he was interviewed, he said, at that that moment,

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00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: the window go suddenly took possession of my soul, and

416
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: in order to live longer, far from people, and to

417
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: put out of the way the only witness to my crime,

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Speaker 1: I seized my gun and killed the last of my children,

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Speaker 1: and aid him as that I had done the others.

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Speaker 1: Some weeks later I was taken by the police, sentenced

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Speaker 1: to death, and in three days I am to be hanged.

422
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 1: And indeed, this is where it gets a little a

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00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: little extra historical importance added to this is that, according

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Speaker 1: to Carlson, uh swift Runner was the first person hanged

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00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: by the Mounties, the Mounted Police, which which gives this

426
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: Uh swift Runner winding. Okay, so a unique position in

427
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: the history of Canadian jurisprudence. So the thing about this

428
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,239
Speaker 1: is that we don't know that it's actually a psychosis right.

429
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: In fact, academics have seen it or they've talked about

430
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: as a cultural balanced psychosis, but they've also called it

431
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: um perhaps a culturally localized manifestation of paranoid schizophrenia because

432
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: we see some mental illness UM in this area, and

433
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: then a correlate of scapegoating. And then also in Nathan D.

434
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: Carlson's paper Reviving Whittico, he says that it could have

435
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 1: been a culturally mediated performance. So in some ways, again

436
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: it was taking to heart this uh, this story and

437
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 1: performing it in a way. Uh. Perhaps that person didn't

438
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: actually want the taste of flesh, but they were caught

439
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: up in the moments in these long winters and the

440
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: sort of disease that would settle in with this, and

441
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: maybe they began to display the history on its Yeah.

442
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: And then also their their situations where you can well

443
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: imagine one using the wind to go idea and wind

444
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: to go stigma for personal game, like, for instance, here

445
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: at work, so we all have new desks. Um, louder Milk,

446
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: Alsa louder Milk has a particularly nice desk. It's like

447
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: right next to the window. It's pretty good. So I

448
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: can imagine that if ladder Milk were to be accused

449
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: of being a wind to go, um, you know, someone

450
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: might say, well, hey, I kind of want louder milks

451
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 1: to desk, So I'm gonna jump in on that bandwagon

452
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: and try to to push that that idea among my

453
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: my fellow co workers. And then you originally reached the

454
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: point where there's nothing left to do but chopper into

455
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: pieces and then lo and behold, I'm setting in her

456
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: new desk. Okay, so you're the one who started the

457
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: rumor about not going into the bathroom alone when ladder

458
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: Milk was using yes and about what she's really been

459
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: bringing in her launch pail. Okay. The second thing someone

460
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: I want to mention is that some of us might

461
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: apply a little magical thinking to that space and think

462
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't want to inhabit it for fear of

463
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: being possessed by the window go as well. Yeah, exactly,

464
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: it's uh, it's been picked up over the years. We're

465
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit about how it was picked

466
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: up by the French Canadians, but of course even in

467
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: modern culture, how you see it to show up in

468
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: in different forms of media. For instance, Stephen King's novel

469
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: pet Cemetery as a Window Go in It that I

470
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 1: remember is working pretty well. Um, the movie Ravenous uh

471
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: is it also features the wind to Go myth pretty strongly,

472
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: kind of kind of taking it and combining with the

473
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: Western vampire uh folk folklore to create kind of I

474
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: think an interesting Animal's been a while since I've seen it,

475
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: but as a really awesome soundtrack by Damon Auburn of

476
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: Blur and Guerrillas, and minimalis composer Michael Nyman. And uh,

477
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: let's say there was Larry Fresden's film Wind to Go,

478
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,360
Speaker 1: which was like an indie horror film. It was pretty interesting,

479
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: and the TV show Hannibal has sort of dream hallucination

480
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: sequences in which a Wind to Go character appears. That

481
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: that I thought it was pretty effective and one of

482
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: the pieces of media that may have started at all

483
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: in terms of math consumption. Uh, sorry about that pun

484
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: is Algernon Blackwood's seven short story The Wind to Go,

485
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: you know, And I like Ultronon Blackwood. I have enjoyed

486
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: his writing in the past, but I started to reread

487
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: his window Go story and I have to say I

488
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: didn't like it. I didn't feel like it was really

489
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: very wind to Go e you know, it was just

490
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: he kind of took the name Win to Go and

491
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: some a certain amount of the feeling for it. But

492
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: then I don't know, I thought I thought it felt

493
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: kind of felt like it fell flat a bit. Well though,

494
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: you you could say that at that point Blackwood didn't

495
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: have this sort of vast stores of information about the

496
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: Wind to Go to pull from. You can go to

497
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: the Wikipedia or listen to our podcast. No, No, you

498
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: probably had a French Canadian friend who was like, let

499
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: me tell you about this crazy thing that happened to

500
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: a friend of a friend of a friend of mines. Right,

501
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: And when someone tells you a story, like, especially when

502
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: it's from a different culture, what can you do but

503
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: combine the scraps that you were given that may or

504
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: may not make sense from from your own cultural standpoint.

505
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: You combine it with the ideas that you already have

506
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: in your own culture, and you end up with sort

507
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: of a new animal, a new myth emerges from this

508
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: synthesis of ideas. Yeah, so let's let's sort of do

509
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: some time traveling here to say, the Lake Superior region

510
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: in Canada eighteen fifties. You probably would hear a French

511
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: Canadian really complaining about this really harsh winter and saying

512
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: that they were so hungry and there were so little

513
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 1: resources that they actually boiled their moccasins and ate them.

514
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: I mean, this is our true accounts, and um, and

515
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: then and but then also of the story that is

516
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: so popular that you end up telling it even if

517
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,479
Speaker 1: you didn't necessarily experience, right, And then, of course, one

518
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: thing leads to another and you start talking about canibalism, right,

519
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: so you say, oh, man, if I ate my my

520
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: Moncasin's food from just two seconds away from from you, buddy, right,

521
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: and the conversation gets really awkward. Yes, this was This

522
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: was all excellently discussed in Werewolves and Windy Goes Narratives

523
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: of cannibal monsters in French Canadian uh Voyager oral tradition

524
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: by Caroline Protruction of York University where she she really

525
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: goes into what happens when the French Canadian voyagers encounter

526
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: the algonquins and start swapping tales. Yeah, because you have

527
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: to again sort of imagine this this time period. There

528
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: are missionaries, fur traders, colonists, the voyagers all going through

529
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: and meeting different tribes and then hearing about these atrocities. Now,

530
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: if you are someone who is French Canadian, you might

531
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: be familiar with some other folklore from Europe, like say,

532
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: we're wolfs, So it wouldn't be too crazy easy because

533
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: you may have a belief system that supports that. Because

534
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: the werewolf myth, of course is that on certain nights

535
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: because of the moon, you know, maybe some curses are

536
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: in play as well. But a man transforms into a

537
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: wolf or a wolf like being, and then goes out

538
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 1: and eats things, including human flesh. And then the next

539
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: morning he's like, whoa, what do I What had happened?

540
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: What did I do? What horrible things happened to me?

541
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 1: What kind of monster did I become? Right? And then

542
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: you've got the whole like, man, I was boiling my

543
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: my moccasins, and you have all these other accounts. In fact,

544
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up Jamestown sixteen o nine, Um

545
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: that that colony had such a harsh winter, that we

546
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: know that they engaged not in just eating saint dogs,

547
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: cats and horses. But recently this year the bones of

548
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl were excavated, and Um, Douglas Owsley,

549
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: he's the Smithsonian forensic anthropologist who analyzed the bones, says, given,

550
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: given these bones in a trash pit, all cut up

551
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: and chopped up, it's clear that this body was dismembered

552
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: for consumption. So in the same way, if you have

553
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: these this folklore from Europe and you know about werewolf,

554
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: you know that people can be transformed into them, and

555
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: you also have these folk tales standing in for moral code,

556
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: then as a European who is in this territory, this

557
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: Algonquian territory. You probably would say, wow, we gotta watch

558
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: out here. Yeah, because I mean, the werewolf myth ultimately

559
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: revolves around the idea, you know, what happens if I

560
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: give in to my be steal nature, or what if

561
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: my my be steal nature overcomes me? What have I

562
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: given to the economic sensibility of cannibalism, for instance, despite

563
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: all of my human moral standing. And so there's a

564
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of of comparisons to be made

565
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: between the werewolf myth and the wind to Go myth.

566
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: And you can definitely see where the werewolf myth would

567
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: help you understand the wind to Go myth, even though

568
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: the window Go myth is totally about human human flesh

569
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: being consumed, totally about cannibalism, whereas cannibalism is just sort

570
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: of one aspect of the werewolf myth. Yes, protructing me

571
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: actually us and and as you say, her find paper

572
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: that what we can learn from this is that the

573
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: cannibal monster stories that for youshers told each other reveal

574
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: many aspects of their lives and cosmology, such as starvation,

575
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: mental illness, and metamorphos because in a way they were

576
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: undergoing a transformation themselves. Yeah, they started out as Westerners

577
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: in a strange world. They travel out into this just

578
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of hard to imagine. Some books

579
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: have have really done a great job of of portraying

580
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: this excursion into the wilds and from this territory. I

581
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: think of like Northwest Passage. I also think of Black Robe,

582
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: excellent book. Um, you go into this just rich, wild

583
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: world where there are no Westerners there. There these these

584
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: foreign people's that you can only partially understand, that have

585
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: a totally different worldview than you do. And and then

586
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: you start and you're in dealing with with limited resources,

587
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: you're suddenly you find yourself starving or you're ill, and

588
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: then what are you to make up of all that?

589
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: And then over time you have the Westerners of assimilating

590
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: more and more with the native cultures to the point

591
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: where they're they're taking they're taking Algonquin brides, they're they're

592
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: they're they're becoming their own communities. Right with this shared

593
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: mythos that has been weaved together from both the Algonquin

594
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: traditions and the European traditions that they imported and yet

595
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: xenophobia exists. And that's where it becomes really interesting because

596
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: the window Goo is really a stand in for this otherness.

597
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: As you said, these are people in a new land

598
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: with new experiences, and everything is the other, including the

599
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: Alcohnquin at some point in other tribes. So, uh, you know,

600
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: with the windingo carries this idea that you're you're engaging

601
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: in this other world, the supernatural world. You know, I

602
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: can't in thinking about the window Go, I keep coming

603
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: back to some material that we came across in our

604
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: episode on the Problem of Hell, where we talked about

605
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: the the old gods that that society has had, the

606
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: hunter gatherer gods, the hornet gods that were more chaotic,

607
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: that were that that dealt uh thematically with the scarcity

608
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: of food and the the uncertainty of tomorrow's meal and

609
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: the meal after that and the in and in doing

610
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: so you can see where that you can see why

611
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: the windowgo is really the ultimate evil spirit of the Algonquins,

612
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: because it represents the uncertainty of food and it represents

613
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: the likelihood at even at times of starvation and in falling,

614
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: what it would take to fall below the barrier, the

615
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: threshold for um civilization, you know, because I feel like

616
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: a lot of our stories deal with that. Like we

617
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: watched the show like Breaking Bad, and we see like

618
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: these you see a character that's falling throughout the entire show,

619
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: and at what point does he fall below the threshold?

620
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: And you see these other characters that you know, addicts

621
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and you you look at them and you think,

622
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,719
Speaker 1: there's a character who's fallen below the threshold. Woe as

623
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: would be me if I were to to to fall

624
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: that low as well? And uh in in a society

625
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: like that, like that is the base mark cannibalism. You've

626
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: fallen below the moral standing that defines the protects the

627
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: culture well right, And it's a reminder of that time

628
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: period when that the line between you know, death and survival,

629
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: which is just like that you cross over it so quickly.

630
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: So it would be tempting to engage in cannibalism if

631
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: you had to, because it may be the difference between

632
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: life and death. Indeed, prodruct Any points out that a

633
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: lot of these stories he shared stories of the wind

634
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: to Go that the French Canadians shared with the Algonquins,

635
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: that there were There were two lessons essentially in all

636
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: of them, particularly for the the French Canadian listener. First

637
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: of all, the idea that the native people's are your friend,

638
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: or at least to be relied upon in the wild,

639
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: because a lot of these stories they end with either

640
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: you're starving and uh and some algonquins come along and

641
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: they feed you and then you're you're safe, or the

642
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: windigo situation happens and they're the ones who come with

643
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: the knowledge of how to defeat the wind to go,

644
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: or they actually chop it up for you. But then

645
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: the second lesson, and this lesson, and she says is

646
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: a is a little more subdued. The lesson is that

647
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: starvation cannibalism is an option. It's a kind of a

648
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: whisper in the ear saying and so this is horrible,

649
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: but if you've got to do it, you can do it.

650
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: And if it's going to get whispered into your ear,

651
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: you might as well blame it on the wind, right Yeah. Um.

652
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 1: You know The thing about this is that anthropologists, when

653
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: they began to study this in earnest, found that it

654
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: pretty much dried up all of these these expressions of

655
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: windigo possession just evaporated. So again it brings into question

656
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: whether or not it was really a psychosis or if

657
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: maybe this part of the world was opening up and um,

658
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: there were other influences going on. So there you have

659
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: it again. This is one of our favorite creepy episodes

660
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: from the past few years, so we figured you would

661
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: like to explore it again and we we got a

662
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: chance to to listen to it again as well. Yeah,

663
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: and if you guys have any ideas about this that

664
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: the power of folklore, Um, whether or not you maybe

665
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: have even I've seen a window go in your midst

666
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: or become one, let us know. You can email us

667
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: at below the Mind at how stafforks dot com for

668
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it

669
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com