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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: we are back with Nathaniel gill Us, the religious demonologist.

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Speaker 1: And Nathaniel, let's talk about the Haunted House. Now, did

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Speaker 1: you live in it for twenty years or you researched

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Speaker 1: the Haunted House for twenty years? I researched. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to make that correction. Yeah, I was in the

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Speaker 1: house for about five okay, but I went to a

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Speaker 1: second house that and that entity followed me. But then

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Speaker 1: the first house was the most active. Absolutely. What happened?

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Speaker 1: Tell us about the Haunted House? Oh goodness. Uh, well,

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Speaker 1: it's like I said, I was eight years old, and

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Speaker 1: it began, like I told you, you know, I walked

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Speaker 1: in and I just smelled um, just a stench, you know.

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Speaker 1: And later on in my life, you know doctor Barry Taft,

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Speaker 1: the great towering doctor Barry Tall. Yeah, decomposing or riding

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Speaker 1: or gaining matter. And so it began with the smell,

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Speaker 1: and it began with the I guess it was an

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Speaker 1: apparition underneath the bed. But she I could tell that

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Speaker 1: she was hiding, and I just felt fear. And so

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Speaker 1: that was the beginning of five years from Hell. I

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Speaker 1: believe it did somebody die in that house? I think so,

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Speaker 1: I've researched it. I haven't been able to find any records.

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Speaker 1: Don't they have to disclose that before you move in?

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Speaker 1: They do, and they should have. They should That's right.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that society is maturing to that point now.

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Speaker 1: But I went back to that house in Dayton, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, revisitings from my neighbors, and I

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Speaker 1: asked them, I said, uh, you know, I said, how

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Speaker 1: many people have lived in that house? He said, well,

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Speaker 1: he said after you left? He said everybody they rent

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Speaker 1: the house out and he said the people that that

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Speaker 1: rent the house, they only stayed there for about four

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Speaker 1: or five months at a time. H That'll tell you. Oh,

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Speaker 1: absolutely right. That's that's the number one. And it's not

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Speaker 1: an Airbnb rentalal, that's for sure. Nobody's making any money then.

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Speaker 1: But it started out as the apparition and then the smell,

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Speaker 1: and then it began. We had all wooden floors, and

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Speaker 1: it began with what I heard. What I heard was

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Speaker 1: footsteps and the wooden floor creaking. And so I would

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Speaker 1: walk out there at two or three in the morning

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Speaker 1: and I didn't see anybody. Nobody was there as an

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Speaker 1: eight year old. Now, yeah, where were your parents? They're

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Speaker 1: across the ray, across the way. Did they know you

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Speaker 1: were wandering around? Yeah, they did, and they, you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't understand a lot of what I was going through.

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Speaker 1: And that's not you know, kudos to them for at

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Speaker 1: least helping me out on some of the things, you know,

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Speaker 1: But it was it was absolutely crazy because the phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: the phenomenon rather would would build itself layer upon layer.

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Speaker 1: And it started out, like I said, it was the apparition,

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Speaker 1: and then it was the smell in the room of

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Speaker 1: the footsteps, and then I heard voices, and it was

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Speaker 1: a lot like the skin Walker Ranch phenomenon, where you

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Speaker 1: hear voices above you and you can't understand what they're saying,

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Speaker 1: but you can very much understand that someone is saying something.

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Speaker 1: And so that moved on and then and then I

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Speaker 1: remember in the middle I remember, in the middle of winter,

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Speaker 1: I had looked out the window and I was eight

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Speaker 1: years old, so I was a little dude, and I

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Speaker 1: remember looking up to the window rather and I saw

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Speaker 1: a shadow figure. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm a short guy,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, you know, when I'm looking at it and

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Speaker 1: I it scared me to death. So I just ran

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Speaker 1: and got on me to my covers, and I remember

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Speaker 1: the next day I got up for school and I

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Speaker 1: looked down and I saw two footprints in snow outside

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Speaker 1: my window. Here's the problem. The window itself was a

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Speaker 1: very tall window, so like where it began was like

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Speaker 1: six seven foot and so whatever was looking into my

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Speaker 1: room had to have been either Nepthelm or some big dude.

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Speaker 1: Well in the leaf footprints means to me that it

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Speaker 1: was a physical creature. It could have been. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of stuff that happened, George, Like I

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Speaker 1: remember waking up. Here's what's fascinating to me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: would a ghost or a deemon leave a physical footprint?

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Speaker 1: They can? They can, absolutely, yeah, absolutely, just like they

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Speaker 1: can you know, physically smack someone, sure, or scratch someone.

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Speaker 1: And you know we have cases even with the hat Man.

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Speaker 1: One of my best friends had an experience with the

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Speaker 1: hat Man. It was an apparition and when they got there,

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Speaker 1: his mom up and looked in the garage. You saw

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Speaker 1: muddy footprints. So these guys can can do a lot.

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Speaker 1: But I the crazy thing, the most crazy. The craziest

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Speaker 1: thing I noticed and went through it was I would

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Speaker 1: go to sleep and I had a night It was

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Speaker 1: in all black and white, and uh. I remember walking

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Speaker 1: down into a park and they have like you know

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Speaker 1: those shelters where you have a family reunion. Well, there

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Speaker 1: were two kids that was. I was young. I had

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Speaker 1: no idea what drugs were. I mean I was, I

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Speaker 1: was pure as a driven snow. I didn't even a

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Speaker 1: little eight year old boy for crying out loud, No kid,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a crazy time. But I remember

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Speaker 1: walking up on these guys and they had their backs

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Speaker 1: turned towards me. They were on a picnic table, and

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Speaker 1: the guy on the right will have had a needle

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Speaker 1: in his arm, and oh yeah, he didn't a knowledge

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Speaker 1: acknowledge me, but the one on the left did. And

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm walking up to them, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: don't even know how I'm doing this right. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to go see these guys. I'm freaking out inside.

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Speaker 1: But the one on the left turned and looked at me,

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Speaker 1: smiled and put a gun in his mouth. No, yes,

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Speaker 1: he didn't pull it, did he He pulled it. And

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Speaker 1: every time he would pull it I would wake up

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Speaker 1: in a cold sweat and there would be a heaviness,

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Speaker 1: a heaviness I'm talking like the air in the room

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Speaker 1: got sick. And I had that nightmare for months, and

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Speaker 1: it even got to a point do horrible for a

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Speaker 1: little boy to have to go through? Oh, it was bad.

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Speaker 1: It was bad. And I went through that and it

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Speaker 1: got to a point where I would be forced to

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Speaker 1: stay up all night with the lights on, and so

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Speaker 1: what I would do. I mean I even felt a

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Speaker 1: great in school because I would stay up all night

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Speaker 1: till seven in the morning when the sun rose, and

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Speaker 1: then I'd get a quick thirty forty minute to sleep,

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Speaker 1: go to school, and sleep all day. Were you getting

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Speaker 1: physically sick from all of this? Yeah? I was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was. And this is a you know, side effective

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Speaker 1: a hunting. I mean, at what point, Nathaniel, do your

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Speaker 1: parents say we're going to have to take you to

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Speaker 1: a doctor or a psychologist or something. They prayed for

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Speaker 1: me a lot, and I figured out that this was

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Speaker 1: something that I alone had to deal with. And no disrespect,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, were they intrictly involved in trying to

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Speaker 1: get this fixed for you? They were? They were my dad,

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Speaker 1: would you know, you know, my dad was working first shift,

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Speaker 1: and here I am, as an eight year old, bring

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Speaker 1: in my mattress into the room and laying down and

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Speaker 1: popping down on the pillow and the mattress and there

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Speaker 1: you were. Yeah, yeah, I did that a lot. But

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Speaker 1: but I remember waking up one night after the dream

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Speaker 1: and I looked in the corner. I had the lights off,

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Speaker 1: and I looked in the corner and there was a

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Speaker 1: black like cloud like figure in the corner of the room.

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Speaker 1: And I remember it making me feel, this is crazy.

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Speaker 1: It made me feel like I was the smallest thing

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Speaker 1: in the entire universe, and in doing that, it made

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Speaker 1: me feel like whatever this sentity was was bigger than

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Speaker 1: anything I can imagine. And that's what forced me out.

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Speaker 1: You know, I got onto to researching the paranormal later on,

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Speaker 1: and I realized, hey, I'm not the only one experience

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Speaker 1: in this stuff. Well, at what age did you start

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Speaker 1: doing heavy research into the paranormal, into the demons? About

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Speaker 1: fifteen fifteen? All right, that's still pretty young. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I experienced. I was kind of

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Speaker 1: feeling like I was crazy. I mean, Georgia would follow me.

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Speaker 1: Did you have friends I'm sorry. Did you have friends? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of friends, and they just they

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Speaker 1: never knew understood what was going on. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, you live in an haunted houses,

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Speaker 1: you don't really want to tell anybody because nowadays people

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Speaker 1: are like, really, yeah, well you're away. So you kept

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Speaker 1: a secret. Yeah, I did the longest time, and I

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Speaker 1: kept to the secret until I understood what was happening

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Speaker 1: and until I could articulate the experiences that I had

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Speaker 1: in a very meaningful and German way. But when I

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Speaker 1: was fifteen and sixteen years old, that's when I got

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Speaker 1: into parallel research, like I said, and I begin to

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Speaker 1: read things, you know, like the Bridgeport Poltergeist, the Parent

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Speaker 1: Family Haunting, just a bunch of them. Did you do

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Speaker 1: it all on your own, Nathaniel or did you have

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Speaker 1: some kind of teacher helping you along? No, it was

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Speaker 1: just me, you know, it was just me and George.

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Speaker 1: But it was fascinating to me. And the more I

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Speaker 1: got into this stuff, the better I felt, because again

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Speaker 1: I felt alienated and disenfranchised by my own self. I

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Speaker 1: didn't understand it, you know. But once I got through

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Speaker 1: all that and I started to realize that there are

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Speaker 1: people all over the world who are experiencing what I experienced,

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Speaker 1: and that's when I decided, you know what, they need

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Speaker 1: more validity concerning in Christianity because we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, George, that are experiencing hauntings, poultergeists and supernatural

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Speaker 1: phenomenon and they have no one to go to in

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Speaker 1: the Christian Church and it and the best they can

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Speaker 1: offer the theologians, many of them, the best they can

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Speaker 1: offer is say no, what we'll pray for you? And

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Speaker 1: what would you say, Nathaniel. Out of twenty houses, how

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Speaker 1: many do you think are haunted? One? Maybe? Maybe, Well,

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Speaker 1: it depends on how old it is, even though that's

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Speaker 1: not really or restriction. That's not the money. I would

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Speaker 1: say about maybe one. Yeah, I mean so the percents

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Speaker 1: are pretty low. Yeah, it is pretty low. And I

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Speaker 1: don't want to seem like only old houses can be haunted.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at the Keith Lender situation in Seattle,

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Speaker 1: and you know they built that house I think it

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Speaker 1: was two thousand and four and crazy stuff started happening.

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Speaker 1: So but you know, I'm more than anything, George. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that everybody who is like in

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Speaker 1: Christianity or even in Judaism, just because you've experienced something

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Speaker 1: and you give it to someone who has not learned

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Speaker 1: or educated or even open minded enough to validate it,

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Speaker 1: does not in any way discount the validity of your experience.

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Speaker 1: You are experiencing very real things. And my goal in

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Speaker 1: this was to find points of reference, or frames of

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Speaker 1: reference rather in the Bible to help us deal with

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Speaker 1: these things and really put at ease the hearts and

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Speaker 1: minds of people who are experiencing things that they just

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Speaker 1: don't understand. You have something called the preternal natural epiphenomenal philosophy. Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: what the heck is that? That's a good question, very

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Speaker 1: good question. Well, that began when I read a book

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Speaker 1: by professor Henry Wyman. He was a theologian and went

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Speaker 1: back to Harvard in the eighteen hundreds, I think, and

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Speaker 1: he wrote a book called the Religious Experience in the

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Speaker 1: Scientific Method, and he described how someone can walk into

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Speaker 1: a dimly lit room and their hand touches the edge

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Speaker 1: of a tablecloth, and he says, even though I don't

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Speaker 1: understand what I touched, the experience of the touching is real. Now,

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Speaker 1: preternatural epiphenomenal philosophy is understanding that what we feel might

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Speaker 1: not be the spirit itself at all. And I postulate

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Speaker 1: that by describing me. Let's say, if I walked into

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Speaker 1: a pool of water and I created a wake in

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Speaker 1: the water, which is displaced water. The wake is not

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Speaker 1: me at all, but it's a secondary consequence of my presence.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah? And so I think that

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Speaker 1: the paranormal research right now, I mean, my goodness, we

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Speaker 1: have people that can download an app, go pick up

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Speaker 1: EVPs and now they you know, but no big deal. No,

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Speaker 1: The problem is again where we do we do what

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Speaker 1: the Hebrews did at antiquity, is we take a experiences

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Speaker 1: and we slap demon on it. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that that that is a internatural phenomenal philosophy is when

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Speaker 1: they sit there and say, you know what it smells

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Speaker 1: like sulfur, it's the demon of sulfur. And that's what

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Speaker 1: they did in the first and second tell of Judaism,

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Speaker 1: and it just completely completely killed our understanding of what

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Would you say that you are strictly

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Speaker 1: a demonologist or would you say you're a demonologist and

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Speaker 1: an exorcist. I am not an exorcist. I am strictly

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Speaker 1: a demonologist exorcism right now. I mean, obviously you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, and one of my great heroes is

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Speaker 1: the absolutely pre eminent Malachi Martin. Yes, God rest his soul,

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Speaker 1: God arrests So he was Oh, he was incredible. I

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Speaker 1: have a first edition of his book, Hostage to the Devil,

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Speaker 1: and I keep that, you know, hidden and wrapped up

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Speaker 1: in paper so nobody can touch it. But the problem is,

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Speaker 1: when when we're dealing with exorcist, we're dealing with unclean spirits.

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Speaker 1: And I could prove that in any way we wish to.

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Speaker 1: And you asked me a question earlier about why it

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Speaker 1: is that the Catholic Church um seems to have a

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Speaker 1: great authority on it. Yeah. The fact is it's not

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Speaker 1: just the quoting of Jesus, it's not just the asking

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Speaker 1: of the name. But it's the sprinkling of holy water. Now,

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Speaker 1: Malachi Martin would tell you about how, you know, you

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Speaker 1: sprinkle holy water on them and they'll know the difference

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Speaker 1: between dasani and the holy water. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that we are being we're given hints to what's really

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Speaker 1: going on, because all of this phenomenon. All of it

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Speaker 1: can be found in the Bible. What in the Holy

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Speaker 1: water if you tossed it at a demon kind of

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Speaker 1: burn them? Yes, in that process, I keep thinking of

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Speaker 1: the deal. I'm sorry, I think keep thinking of the

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz when the witch was Dulston Water and

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Speaker 1: she was melting. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am dot com for more