1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back 5 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt Nol is not 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: here today. They call me Ben and we are joined 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: as always with our super producer Paul Mission Controlled decade. 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know a 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: very uh would you say? We're a very American show, Matt. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: We are American centric. A lot of the things we cover, 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: you know, we bring our own perspective to it, and 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: we are Americans, and we do try to branch out, 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: we do. But our perspective is our perspective, true, true, 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: and it's important for everyone to be aware of and 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: as much as as possible uh their own perspectives and 17 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: inherent biases. But you're right, we often cover things that 18 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: are related to the United States, or occur in the US, 19 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: or involved people from the US. In all fairness, we 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: are always thrilled to branch out of that North American shell. 21 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: You know. Quite enjoyed our earlier episode on Indonesian cryptids right, 22 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: which ended up being a little more true crime. And 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: I think either of us reckoned as some Australian cryptids 24 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: in there, had some Australian cryptids in there. Did we 25 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: ever do the bunyip? Did? We did? We did? Okay, 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: and we had I think we had any reeson correct 27 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: time from stuff Mom never told you and savor excellent shows. 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: Check them out. Speaking of fantastic segues, Matt, I was 29 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: thinking about this earlier. Do you realized for the better 30 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: part of a century, the Soviet Union and Russia have 31 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: been the stand in boogeyman for the US. We have 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: other threats come and go right, other things hit the 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: news cycle, but pretty much since the nineteen forties or so, 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: and even even before then, uh Soviet Union Russia we 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: were like the main antagonist, the main recurring nemeses. Yeah 36 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: they were. They were the second most organized to mobilize 37 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: power right right right. And nowadays this is back in 38 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: the news. It doesn't matter what your political leanings are. 39 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: You can't really read a headline without running into something 40 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: about Russia. And when most people in these United States 41 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: of ours think of Russia, we think of one man, 42 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. Rumors have swirled about this guy for decades 43 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: and decades and decades, and intelligence services the world over, 44 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: not just our alphabet soup, but many other alphabet soups 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: across the planet have spent millions, if not billions, trying 46 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: to learn more about him, more about his plans, more 47 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: about his strategies, and ultimately, like what's his deal. In 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: this episode, we're exploring a bit about the man himself, 49 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: his rise to power, his inner circle, along with what 50 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: some believe is his actual end game, his genuine goal 51 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: on the world stage. But let's let's cut past all 52 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: the you know, the MSNBC, Fox News, CNN stuff, and 53 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: let's let's get to know this guy. Who is Vladimir 54 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: Vladimirovich Putin. Well, if you listen to Lad's own story, 55 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: he's just a regular old guy. He was born to 56 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: a working class family. He was born in Leningrad in 57 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two. His father was he was a war veteran, 58 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: quite decorated. Actually, he was also a factory worker. And 59 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: Vladimir was an only child, and he grew up in 60 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, one of the like a communal apartment, not 61 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: a commune necessarily, but a communal apartment with two other families. 62 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: And again this was just kind of run of the mill. 63 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: This is how you lived at that time in nineteen 64 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: fifty two, especially if you're you know, a factory worker 65 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: and a war war veteran, right right. The state had 66 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: a tremendous influence in determining where you and your family lived. 67 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: And this, as you said, was not at all unusual. 68 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: A communal apartment is sort of similar to think back, 69 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: did you ever live in the dorms at Georgia State? 70 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: I lived in dorms at Columbus State, and it was 71 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: the same kind of thing that you're about to. Just 72 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: like you have a communal kitchen maybe uh best room 73 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: or two that are shared across the unit of two 74 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: to three families. But then people have their own rooms 75 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: and stuff. It's not just you know, a room with 76 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,559 Speaker 1: a hot plate and a toilet, nine people or something. Yes, 77 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: And if you go to the Kremlin's official website that 78 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: has a biography on Vladimir Putin, you get this quote 79 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: from Putin. Are you gonna do it in a voice? No? Uh? 80 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: All right? It says I come from an ordinary family. 81 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: And this is how I lived for a long time, 82 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: nearly my whole life, I lived as an average, normal person, 83 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: and I've always maintained that connection. So there we go. 84 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: We're starting out just normal. He's using the word normal. Average. 85 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, ordinary, sure, sure, run in the mill three 86 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: squares will meat and potatoes, right, three square mills a day. 87 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's very common in any political uh 88 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: political website, you know what I mean, someone will say 89 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: unless they're unless they're and out and out looney been strong, 90 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: strong man dictator who believes they have a mandate from God, 91 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: They'll say something like, you know, I'm of the people. 92 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: I am, I too, am one of you. Unless it 93 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: was like the DPRK writing it, perhaps I think it 94 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: would look a little different. It would, it would one day. 95 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: Maybe we can just make a segment of Dear Leader facts, 96 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: various achievements growing up putin loved spy novels and TV shows. 97 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: There's an interesting quote from him in a BBC article 98 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: about the appeal he saw in these stories. Oh yeah, well, 99 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: it's a concept that maybe a lot of us have 100 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: or could identify with. If you when you listen to this, 101 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: the quote is one man's effort could achieve what whole 102 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: armies could not. One spy could decide the fate of 103 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: thousands of people. We've brought this concept up before. It's 104 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: a facet of what's now called asymmetrical warfare, Like why 105 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: would you why would you need to build your own 106 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: aircraft carrier when you could, for much less money and 107 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: time build a missile that would destroy an aircraft carrier, 108 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: or a spy that could infiltrate that aircraft carrier and 109 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: sabotage it, or a computer programmer network that could change 110 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: the course of an election. There you go, oh god, 111 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. You gotta work smart 112 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: instead of working hard. When Putin was still in school, 113 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: he went to the KGB Security and Intelligence Agency and 114 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: asked how he could join up. I don't want to 115 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: just read these spy novels, he thought, I want to 116 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: I want to live them. The people at the headquarters said, alright, good, 117 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: you got moxie. You know, they probably like chucked his 118 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: chucked his chin a little bit, and they said, we'll 119 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: tell you what, go to the army first, or go 120 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: to college and get a law degree, and then come 121 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: back and maybe we can talk. And he was like, Yep, yep, 122 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: he did so he that's exactly what he did. He 123 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: took the latter option and he went to Leningrad State University. 124 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: He spent seventeen years there's a mid level agent working 125 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: for an intelligence During this time he had an experienced 126 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: that many of his biographers and people who study his life, 127 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, they concluded this was 128 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: a defining moment in his life. Yeah, he was in Dresden, Germany. 129 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: The date was December five, nineteen eighty nine, and this 130 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: is just just a couple of weeks after the fall 131 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: of the Berlin Wall between East Germany and West Germany, 132 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: which I have a piece of. By the way, did 133 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: ever tell you that it was this souvenir thing that 134 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: people were selling at the time. That's awesome. It's a 135 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: weird one. Was it? Was it in your apartment? I mean, 136 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: you're dwelling place wherever that could be? Because I missed it, 137 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: and next time I'm gonna check it out. Um, that's 138 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: really cool. Um, So we're in we're in Dresden, Germany, 139 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: and Dresden, you just may remember from us talking about 140 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: this before was bombed terribly in World War Two. Uh, 141 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: just obliterated. It was I believe it was the firebomb 142 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: campaign of Dresden. Uh, read about it if you want to. 143 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: It's a whole other piece of history that's worth looking into. 144 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: But he's in this historical city and there is a STAZZI. 145 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: I guess the German intelligence police. They've got an installation 146 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: very close just across the street from where the KGB 147 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: also has their headquarters there in Dresden. And I guess, 148 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: I guess he found himself. Putin found himself within that 149 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: KGB office. And there was an anti communist mob that 150 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: was forming at the Stazi location, a huge mob of people, 151 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: and then of you know, a group of them broke 152 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: off and went over to the KGB offices. And uh, 153 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: Putin recounted that, you know, as as he's seeing this occurring, 154 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: and like, oh god, what do we what are we 155 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: gonna do? Are we gonna have a firefight right now? Um? 156 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: He was told that the KGB couldn't officially do anything 157 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: to respond to this threat of violence against them without 158 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: direct orders from Moscow and quote, Moscow is silent. And 159 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: this stuck with Putin In some of his public statements later, 160 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: he said, this business of Moscow is silent. I got 161 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: the feeling that the country no longer existed, that it 162 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: had disappeared. It was clear that the union was ailing 163 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 1: and that it had a terminal disease without a cure, 164 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: a paralysis of power. And this makes sense because think 165 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: about again, I'm I want to be very fair here. Uh, 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: this is something that happens to many organizations. You feel 167 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: paralyzed because you are waiting for a green light or 168 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: approval on something, you know what I mean. And that's 169 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: that's also necessary because at this point it could have 170 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: made an international incident or triggered a hot war. But 171 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: still he's like, why do we have to sit here 172 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: with our hands in our pockets while something may well 173 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: turn into a riot? And he's in his thirties at 174 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: this time, and you can really feel from that quote 175 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: that it was, like you said, the Birapher's due point 176 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: to it as being like one of the moments. And 177 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: this is this is around the time as KGB years, 178 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: around the time you can see that famous photograph of 179 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: him as a photographer posing as a photographer in the 180 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: same shot with the US so fast forward by Putin 181 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: has resigned from the KGBS Active Reserve he's back in 182 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: Lennon Grad where he grew up, but now it's called St. Petersburg, 183 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:01,479 Speaker 1: and he's working for the city's first democraticly elected mayor, 184 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: a guy named Anatoly Soapchuk, who happens to be his 185 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: former law professor. He was, he was behind the scene. 186 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: He was a fixer. Uh. You remember a House of Cards. 187 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: So for much of House of Cards, Underwood the Underwood 188 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: family has a fixer, right, I can't remember the guy's name. 189 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: We ended up becoming chief of staff who ended up 190 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: becoming chief of staff. That was his spoil, as spoils 191 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: of war is blood and treasure here earned that by 192 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: doing very illegal things. So the implication here is that 193 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: maybe Putin was cutting some legal corners for the mayor. 194 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: He was called the man to see if things needed 195 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: to get done and yeah, and he was indispensable to 196 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: the mayor. He was also very loyal to the mayor. Yes, 197 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: when Schick wasn't reelected. Um, the guy who won, the 198 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: guys who's who the guy wanted? Like, you know I 199 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: heard about this, Uh, Putin the fixer fellow could get 200 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: him on my staffs. He's offered a job by the 201 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: man who won and um Putin turned it down, and 202 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: he said, quote, it's better to be hanged for loyalty 203 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: than be rewarded for betrayal, which I don't care how 204 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: you feel about the guy that's tore right. So he 205 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: and his family pull up the ten stakes, they moved 206 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: to Moscow, and he climbs up the government ladder. He 207 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: eventually becomes the head of the agency that replaced the KGB, 208 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: which is the FSB, and should it should be familiar 209 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: to a lot of us who've been listening to the 210 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: show for a while, and in he's head of the FSB, 211 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: and Boris Yelson, who was the President Russia at the time, 212 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: has named him personally named Putin to this position. Newsweek 213 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: was speculating a lot about this. Who is this guy? 214 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? He was He was on 215 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,599 Speaker 1: intelligence network radar for a while, but it wasn't in 216 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: a lot of mainstream news. They had bigger fish to fry. 217 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: So Newsweek said this was a job the president would 218 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: only have given to one of their most trusted of aids. 219 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: Then in August of Boris Yelton appoints Putin Prime Minister 220 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: of Russia. And if you go to the official of 221 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: the official website of the Kremlin, you can read about 222 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: the interaction of just walking into Boris Yelton's office and 223 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: having him basically just tell him you're the one. You're 224 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: I'm the one, You're the one for this job. It 225 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: was fascinating. This was also a time of chaos in 226 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: the administration exactly, but it's one of those things that's 227 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: difficult to turn down right right, and it doesn't compromise 228 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: his loyalty or his concerns about that, but it's also 229 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: it's also a situation wherein Yeltsin and his administration need 230 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: a lot of help. Putin, you see, is the fifth 231 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: prime minister in less than two years. They're just running 232 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: through them, and this chaos continues to escalate. In New 233 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: Year's Eve, suddenly Boris Yeltson steps down from office and 234 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: he says, Vladimir Putin is the acting president, and he 235 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: is the acting president until March when he wins the 236 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: election and becomes the real president. A lot of people 237 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: there's some murky stuff because a lot of people I 238 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: think that this was a move Yelson was doing as 239 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: ah an attempt at self preservation, because there was already 240 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: a war in Czechenia, which will be important later. And 241 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: his approval ratings were dropping as the war was getting 242 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: more and more desperate and less and less successful. So 243 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: now we have we have gotten to the point where 244 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: Putin is finally president of Russia. What does he do next? 245 00:15:49,720 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: Will tell you after a word from our sponsor, you know, 246 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: just before we get into this again, Ben, I just 247 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: want to point out I think people are right to 248 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: say there's something odd going there going on there with 249 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: the whole Yelton appointment of Putin to him becoming president 250 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: within four months, that's it feels like that was a 251 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: calculated move somewhere, and I guess it would be difficult 252 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: unless you had the official I don't know diaries of 253 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: everyone involved, but still it feels like there's there's a 254 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: little something extra occurring there. I also want to point 255 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: out Boris Yelson was. It was not a secret. It 256 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: wasn't often written about a bunch of headlines and stuff, 257 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: but Boris Yelson was a notoriously wild alcoholic. There's a 258 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: great story I do. It's a little bit of a tangible. 259 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: We may not have time, but it's it's so worth it. 260 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: There's one time Boris Yeltson meets then President Bill Clinton 261 00:16:54,360 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: in Washington in September of Secret Service eight found yells 262 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: in alone on Pennsylvania Avenue, dead drunk in his underwear, 263 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: yelling for a taxi and you know, slurring his words. 264 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: They were trying to get him inside, you know, to 265 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: Blair House where he was staying, and he was like, no, 266 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: get your hands off, and I'm president, but I want 267 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: a pizza. Seriously, he was hailing a taxi to get 268 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: a pizza. Maybe maybe he had just finished shooting his 269 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: p tape. Someone asked, U, nobody really knew about this 270 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: until two thousand and nine. You can say how they 271 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: don't want that getting out. When a guy named Taylor 272 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: Branch published a book called the Clinton Tapes where he 273 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: interviewed the former president and then he asked Bill Clinton 274 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: how the situation ended, and the guy just shrugged and said, um, well, yeah, 275 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: I mean he got his pizza last last thing. The 276 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: next night he tried to do it again. Yes, waited. 277 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: He was having a laugh, That's all it was. He 278 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: seemed very very centered on that. But the but we 279 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: say all that to say that this h multiple levels. 280 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: This presidency was in trouble and as soon as Putin 281 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: becomes president, right in acting president, he's the legit president. 282 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: March after the election, he does one of those famous 283 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: first presidential moves. He pardons the guy before him, giving 284 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: him immunity from any investigations, including protecting his papers, his residents, 285 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: and his other material possessions. That also means protecting his 286 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: bank account. Wow, there you go, your pardon, right, thanks 287 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: for the office. And he had two big problems. First off, 288 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: he's already a man with a plan. He has a 289 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: big goal, but it's on the horizon, right, that's what 290 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about in this episode. So he has two 291 00:18:55,560 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: immediate problems stymying his progress. The first is that Yelsen 292 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: had a ton of oligarchs. An oligarch is a member 293 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: of a very small elite that controls a disproportionate amount 294 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: of industry, finance, or resources. And yells it deals with 295 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: all them because of the privatization of the former USSR, 296 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: And Putin says, all right, these guys might they might 297 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: be bigger than me one day, you know what I mean, 298 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: So let me get in front of it. As one 299 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: of our old boss is so fond of saying. And 300 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: in July two thousand, he told the oligarchs, Look, I'm 301 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: not gonna mess with your business. I'm not gonna take 302 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: all of the all of the businesses that you stole 303 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,239 Speaker 1: from the Russian people. I'm gonna let you do that, 304 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: make as much money as you want, and stay the 305 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: hell out of my way, and don't ever say anything 306 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,479 Speaker 1: negative about me, and don't ever make me think that 307 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: you're a ch allee. And they said, okay, they were 308 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: like dope, yeah, well for the most part, right, um, yeah, wow, 309 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: let's let's keep going down a few other things that 310 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: occurred to him, and before we get a modern day, 311 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: the second big problem, right, yes, the second massive problem 312 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: the Chechen hostage crisis. And this occurred in two thousand two. 313 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: And this is when there's a theater in Moscow that 314 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: was seized by Chechen militants. There are forty of them 315 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: and they were led by the warlord Mozvar Barayev and 316 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: h This was a like over the course of three days, 317 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: this took place, and there were nine hundred and twelve 318 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: hostages that were there, like there were being there were 319 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: taken hostage at this theater, and one hundred and twenty 320 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: nine of them were killed or died at least in 321 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: some way. And this was really really a big moment 322 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: for Putin and a lot of people thought that his 323 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: domestic approval was just gonna, you know, sink because this 324 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: is it happened on his watch essentially, and that's really 325 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: all that has to occur for a leader to be 326 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: criticized and then have their reputation uh taken away, even 327 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: if you know, possibly he couldn't have done anything about 328 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: it directly besides different strategies for going in and to 329 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: resolve the hostage situation. But let's we have a quote here. 330 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: It's just talking about his his ruthless handling of the 331 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: siege and his refusal to negotiate with the hostage takers 332 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: further short up his reputation as a man of action, 333 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: and um, his approval rating went up. Its shot up 334 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: actually three after everything was over. So you know, he 335 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: he went into a situation that a lot of his 336 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: detractors thought, oh, this is gonna go terribly for him, 337 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: and he turned it around completely just by being what 338 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people would consider to be just strong 339 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: in that moment. Right. Yeah, here's what they did. They 340 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: had they had they surrounded the place for two days, 341 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: and then they rated the place in the morning of 342 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: October after they had pumped a narcotic gas in the building, 343 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: knocking out the terrorists and the hostages alike. They broke 344 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: through the walls and the roof, they went through the 345 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: sewage tunnels all at once, and they just started wiping 346 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: people out. Geez, it's nothing to mess with. And this 347 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: this would have you know, if this would have been handled, say, 348 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: if this had been uh, something that happened in the US, 349 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: for instance, that kind of approach would be political suicide. 350 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean it'd be like that's like a Waco situation 351 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: but much worse. But this time and they were like, yeah, 352 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: this guy gets things done. There you go. He even 353 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: got reelected four right, he did. Yeah, he had a 354 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: second term and he he really just focused inward on 355 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: domestic affairs. But he did draw a lot of criticism 356 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: for cracking down on the voice, the like the media, 357 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: on people who are reporting things that are occurring. You 358 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: know that that he's handling domestically, right, So I'm handling 359 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: everything over here domestically. But I don't want, uh, I 360 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: don't want you to talk about it necessarily talked about 361 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: the way I did you know we can be friends 362 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: as long as you are not a challenge. Yeah, that's 363 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: don't don't make me don't like you are making don't 364 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: you know why why do you want me to have 365 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: to do these things to you media? And also he 366 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: was he was tremendously popular because of the perceived economic 367 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: um economic improvements in Russia. The GDP increased by sevent 368 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: investments increased by over a hundred and twenty. The country 369 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: largely relied on oil, and it was good to be 370 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: in the oil business at that time. He steps back 371 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: because there is rule of law right. And in two 372 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: thousand eight he has a guy named Dmitri Medvedev who 373 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: is elected president and Dmitri later makes Putin the new 374 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: prime minister a day later. There's little debate that Putin 375 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: more or less hand picked Medvedev as his stand in, 376 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: and then soon enough Puten came back for the presidency. 377 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: He just Yippi Kayaid back back into office. In two 378 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: thousand twelve, he won his third presidential election. It's a 379 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: six year term. This was controversial because people said, does 380 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: the constitution let you have a third term? And critics said, 381 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: this is a fraudulent election. But officially, if you believe 382 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: the official numbers, he got around sixty four percent of 383 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: the vote or more than sixty which is which is 384 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: huge because he said, look, vote for me, you know, 385 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: and you won't make me do the things that I 386 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: have to do to you as soon as you you 387 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: don't vote for me, you're a pro, you're an obstacle. 388 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: Don't make me think of you as a challenge. Yeah, 389 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: it's that's that's the intensity, right, So we'll fast forward 390 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: through some of this stuff so we can get to 391 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: the really crazy part. In March, he gets on the 392 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: world stage again. He annexes crimea. You and I were 393 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: working on this show when that happened, and we were 394 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: we were going back and forth figuring out what what 395 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: the move was here. But ultimately there were little international consequences. 396 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: And now, on a side note, no one knows how 397 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: much Putin is actually worth. In March of this year, 398 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: Congress started saying the US Congress started saying, we should 399 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: investigate this is this guy a modern Manson Musa who 400 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: was you know, genuine generally acknowledged to be the wealthiest 401 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: man of all time. Check out the drunk history on 402 00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: Manson Mussa. Yeah, well, he's uh, Putin me actually be 403 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: the wealthiest single man the world. No one knows, but 404 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: speculation says that he may control more money than Bill 405 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. So if that's true, that's astonishing. 406 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: But it could also, you know, it could be propaganda, 407 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: and it's tough to tell who the author of that 408 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: propaganda might be. But during his rise to power, and 409 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: here in the modern day, in twenty nineteen as we 410 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: record this, he stands accused and his administration stands accused 411 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: of numerous crimes, including but not limited to, illegal expansion, 412 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: is M annexations and supportive coups, crime and others, financial corruption, 413 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: economic warfare, election interference. Sorry, folks, you knew that one 414 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: was coming. And of course, murdering people. I mean, just 415 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: look at the assassination list. Is this a path to 416 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: power paved with murder? There is no question that multiple journalist, 417 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: former employees of the government, and dissidents alike have met 418 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: untimely ends during Vladimir Putin's time at the helm of 419 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: the Russian government. We have some quick examples. Some may 420 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: be familiar to you, some may not. Let's start the 421 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: first one big power move Alexander Litvinenko, KGB agent, former 422 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: KGB agent. He drank a cup of tea at a 423 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: London hotel and it had been laced with a poison. 424 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: He died three weeks later. The poison was something called 425 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: polonium to ten, and people in the US heard about this. 426 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: It was a huge stink because it was so blatant 427 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: that it seemed as if members of the Russian intelligence 428 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: agency wanted to leave a fingerprint of some sort, or 429 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: someone wanted us to believe that it was them. That's 430 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: what I always imagine that blatant, right was it was 431 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: it a frame, a stitch up job. Right? So we 432 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: do know that the Brits found that not only was 433 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: let Venko poisoned, but that he was poisoned by FSB agents, 434 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: and they said these orders probably came from their boss 435 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: and probably from President Putin. And then we have a 436 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: journalist and a politic. Kovskaya, yes is a Russian journalist, 437 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: was highly critical of Putin and just his political moves 438 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: and everything. And she wrote a book called Putin's Russia, 439 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: and she accused him of turning his country into ostensibly 440 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: a police state. And she was murdered by contract killers 441 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: who shot her at point blank range. Uh, and it 442 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: was like right outside where she lived, where she got 443 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: shot in the elevator the lift I guess and five 444 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: men were convicted eventually of her murder, but the judge 445 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: found that it was a contract killing. It was definitely 446 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: a contract killing. They got paid one hundred and fifty 447 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: thousand dollars by some unknown person, a person unknown. So 448 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: again this doesn't mean that putin personally order at all 449 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: these things, but they occurred during his time. There's another 450 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: journalist in Italia, Estemruva, who worked with the Anna political 451 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: of Skaya that we just mentioned. She uncovered human rights 452 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: abuses carried out by Russian state forces in Chechenia, and 453 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: she was abducted from her home and found in the 454 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: woods nearby with gunshot wounds. To where had no one's 455 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: ever been convicted of her murder. There was an oligarch, 456 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: Boris Berezovsky, who fled to the UK after he Imputin 457 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: got on bad terms. Again, we can do business. Don't 458 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: don't make me think you're a challenge. That's it. I'm 459 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: going to Britain And he said, all right, I'm going 460 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: to Britain, and then during his time in Britain in 461 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: the UK, he threatened to bring down Vladimir Putin by force. 462 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: That's when he was found dead shortly after in his 463 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: Berkshire home March of in what was called a suicide. 464 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: He was found dead inside of a locked bathroom with 465 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: a ligature around his neck. The coroner could not explain 466 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: how he died. The British police had earlier, on several 467 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: occasions investigated several alleged assassination to attempts against him, but 468 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: this was a you know, suicide. And that's just a 469 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: couple of the examples here. But they really do show 470 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: how all these people, the oligarchs, he's working with, journalists 471 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: who are covering what's happening, even x KGB intelligence agents 472 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: all end up dying. But why yeah, why is it 473 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: because they incurred the wrath of the man himself? Is 474 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: it because they incurred the wrath of maybe rogue agents 475 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: in the government. Because we know that intelligence agencies act 476 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: on their own accord all the time, and the left 477 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: hand doesn't always know what the right is doing. But 478 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: these people did die after they ticked off the Russian government, 479 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: and this is all this is all pretty grizzly stuff. Right, 480 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: but unfortunately it is not uncommon in the halls of power. 481 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: Some of the more cynical US listening today may even 482 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: argue that, hey, this is what it takes to stay 483 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: in power when you're running a more unstable country. If anything, 484 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: this only proves that the Russian government, like many many 485 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: other countries, is involved in shady stuff. But to what end. 486 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: This is where we run into a plot twist, because 487 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: you see folks unlike American governments, or specifically, unlike the 488 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: US government, which often shifts its policies every four to 489 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: eight years depending on who owns and pays the current administration, 490 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: it's rarely the voters. Spoiler alert, ha ha. The Russian 491 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: government has had consistent leadership for around twenty years now. 492 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: That gives you access to more long term planning, and 493 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: some experts believe there's more than the dirty business of 494 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: geopolitics at play here. Instead, they say there may be 495 00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: a long term plan, the long game. We've talked about 496 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: that before, the Great Game, the Great Game, and we'll 497 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: talk about it after a quick word from our sponsor. 498 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Questions, questions, questions, who's got questions? Well, 499 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: one of the million dollars, billion dollars trillion dollar questions, 500 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: is what is Russia actually up to? Some experts believe 501 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: they have found the answers in the works of a controversial, enigmatic, 502 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: and relatively obscure philosopher, pundit, professor, politician, a guy named 503 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: Alexander Dugan, who his enemies will call the modern rast Sputin, 504 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: or even once the alex Jones of Russia. That was 505 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: a quote I read as well, how can you be 506 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: both of those? I don't know. It seems like they're 507 00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: very different people. So Alexander Dugan, who is he? Who 508 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: is he? He's born in Moscow January seventh, nineteen sixty two, 509 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: about ten years older than Putin. His parents were oh, 510 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: a colonel general in the Soviet military intelligence and a 511 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,719 Speaker 1: candidate of law. This guy Dugan and his wife Galina, 512 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: She was a doctor in candidate of medicine. So any 513 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: of this dude, he's a polyglot, he was speaking ten 514 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: languages at least. Uh. He's a professor, a fascist, he's 515 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,959 Speaker 1: a celebrated philosopher in his home country, and he is 516 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, at least a lot of Russians. 517 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: He's at the forefront of geopolitical thought. He is he 518 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: has one of those minds that can see the entire 519 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: chess board. Yeah understands. Yeah, that's a good way to 520 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: put it. Matt. He's he's the he's like the third 521 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: base coach saying, this is how you make the move, 522 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: This is how you see through the bs and get 523 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: to home plate. He is a prolific writer, and in 524 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: his nineteen article Fascism, Borderless and Red, he procla the 525 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: arrival of a genuine, true, radically revolutionary, and consistent fascist 526 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: fascism well Russia, so not just regard variety fascism. He 527 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: believed that it was again, these are quotes, and they 528 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: may be offensive. He believed that was by no means 529 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: the racist and chauvinistic aspects of national socialism that determined 530 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: the nature of its ideology. Instead, he says, and this 531 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: is a weird phrase, he says, the excesses of this 532 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans, 533 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism 534 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: with a passionate desire for true change. And then he 535 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: starts shouting out various non organizations s especially the scientific 536 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: sector of this organization of the ANNERBA. What that what 537 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: was an intellectual oasis the framework of the national socialist regime. 538 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: That's crazy. So he conveniently, um, he conveniently doesn't hit 539 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: upon the massive genocide that heard in World War Two. 540 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: But he's talking about these uh kind of odd organizations 541 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: that ended up leading the charge in a lot of ways, 542 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: a lot of intellectual ways in his early days. In 543 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: his earlier works too, he had a lot of tendency 544 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: to resort to a cult symbolism. Just to mention that part. 545 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: But but he also wrote a book, the title of 546 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: which translates to the Foundation of Geopolitics in English. We've 547 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: mentioned this book before and we had a We had 548 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: someone right in and say, hey, do you have an 549 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: English translation of this? I believe they said, because I 550 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: speak Russian. I couldn't find an English translation from my friends. 551 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: There was one poor English translation of this book that 552 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: was available on Amazon for a long time. There was 553 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: no official translation, there's no name translator. I strongly suspect 554 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: that a computer translated this stuff. So what we do 555 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: know about this book is pretty fascinating. I mean, I 556 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: read that computer translated version and I was like, man, 557 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: this guy's all over the place. But I think it's 558 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: just because you still need a human translator. Right, So 559 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: what we know is disturbing and fascinating because it appears 560 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: to predict not all, but many of the actions taken 561 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: by putin his inner circle in the Russian government, especially 562 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: in recent years. He credits a guy named General Nikolai 563 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: Klokotov of the Academy of the General Staff as his 564 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: co author main inspiration. Klokotov denies this, and then another guy, 565 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: Colonel General Leonid Ivashov, who's head of the Russian Ministry 566 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: of Defense, helped draft the book. But although Klokotov says 567 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 1: he didn't help write it, he's still a huge fan. 568 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: He said that in the future of the book should 569 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: serve as a mighty ideological foundation for preparing a new 570 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 1: military command, just like Atlas Shrugged, just like so um. 571 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: And you can even notes that the book is used 572 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: as a textbook in just all over Russia and multiple 573 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: educational programs. So as though like check it out, Yeah, 574 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: my stuff is a textbook, right right, And he is 575 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: a professor, and professors write textbooks. But this is popular, 576 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: This is very popular military military education circles. So other 577 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: people in the government, not all, but other people in 578 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: the government say that this shouldn't just be a textbook 579 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: that some people read. It should be a compulsory or 580 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: mandatory book, you know, like everybody has to take English 581 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: eleven oh one or basic economics or something. It will 582 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: be like Lord of the Flies, right right, class exactly. So, 583 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: but what is this book about. Not the sexiest title, 584 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: obviously not the most provocative thing, but it hits on 585 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: some provocative points. Well. The first is Atlanticism, not Atlantis. Yeah, 586 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,760 Speaker 1: Atlanticism is in the Atlantic, I'm assuming, but it rejects 587 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: Atlanticism in favor of Eurasianism. So all right, let's talk 588 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: about this. Atlanticism is the West, basically all of the West. 589 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: We're talking the UK, the United States. Who are the 590 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: other big players in the West Western Europe in general, 591 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: So that'd be like Germany, France, Spain. Yeah, and he's saying, 592 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: let's we're saying no to that. Eurasianism or continentalism is 593 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: the new thing. It's land based power, revolving around authority, 594 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: authoritarian control, essentially an empire of racially pure regimes in 595 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: which women are confined to the home and breeding, and 596 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: that that part hitting on that part comes from critics 597 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: of this obviously. Uh. But yes, the idea is that 598 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: Atlanticism is represented by in all but name NATO, the 599 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: North Atlantic Tree Organization is modern, polyethnic, egalitarian, feminist and 600 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: democratic a k American globalism, and the idea is in 601 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: his in his mind, the idea is that the emphasis 602 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: on individual liberty is moving the species in the wrong direction. 603 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: And he says stuff that I think many people would 604 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: find quite offensive. Says, you know, the idea that there 605 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,880 Speaker 1: is no there is no community, the person, the individual 606 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: is paramount. And uh. He furthermore accuses the West, the 607 00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: American globalist, of removing people's ability to to identify as 608 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: part of a group. In recent years, he had said 609 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: that the last, the last, the last bastion of group 610 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: identification was gender, and that the West was trying to 611 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: remove the concept of gender. So he's taking it. I'm 612 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: showing that point to illustrate how far he's taking it. 613 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: And let's get to this idea of the plan. Ultimately, 614 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: the plan laid out in this book, which is again 615 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: a textbook often in the country, is to replace the 616 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: global superpower of the US with a multipolar world of 617 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: regional powers, regional hegemons, with Russia controlling Greater Eurasia, essentially 618 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: the what was once the territory of the U. S. 619 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 1: S R. Bring it back. The book declares that the 620 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: battle for the world rule of Russians never ended and 621 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: that Russia remains the staging area of a new anti bourgeoisie, 622 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: anti American revolution. And I can see the red hats. 623 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: They're like, make the uss are a thing again? Is that? 624 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: Is that a real hat? No? But that's what should 625 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: we make that? Oh, will put his name on it. 626 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 1: I don't know. We'd have to at least send him one. 627 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: But the Eurasian Empire is in his mind constructed on 628 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 1: the fundamental principle of the common enemy, rejecting this Atlantic 629 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: sism you mentioned Matt strategically controlling the US and the 630 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,439 Speaker 1: refusal to allow quote liberal values to dominate us. He 631 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 1: wrote that that. Okay, so that's the thing that sounds 632 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: a little conspiratorial, right. There's a big thinker, great ideas. 633 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: What is he actually doing. It appears that he is 634 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: um back predicting some things that are happening on the 635 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: global stage today. Yeah, he wrote pretty much about Oh, 636 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: let's say something that may or could be considered to 637 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: be similar to the Trump like presidency. While that was 638 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: couching it really hard. But let's let's get a quote here. 639 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: At the global level, for the construction of a planetary 640 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: new empire, the chief scapegoat will namely be the U 641 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: s A the undermining of whose power, which up to 642 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: the complete destruction of its geopolitical constructs, will be realized 643 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: systematically and uncompromising lee by the participants of the new empire. Okay, 644 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: a little over my head, been so the idea here 645 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: is that they want or do Gang wants, to be specific, 646 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: he wants the US to retreat from its interference and 647 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 1: global events, to become a little more isolationist, and to 648 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: internally become more divided. Now too, from his perspective, it 649 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: doesn't particularly matter how that is achieved, you know what 650 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: I mean. If there's a if there's a super super 651 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: far left, eat the rich, no material possessions president that 652 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: divides the country, then that's fine too, because it accomplishes 653 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: the same thing, which is to divide and conquer the 654 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: domestic population. And then while this is occurring, and while 655 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: the US is becoming more mired in its own domestic 656 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: affairs and increasingly isolationists. Jugan says, let's make overtures to 657 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: Latin America, to South and Central America and get it 658 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: away from the control of the global North. Let's also, 659 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: while we're at it, provoke every kind of destabilization and 660 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: separatism within the borders of the United States that we 661 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: can to make it less and less capable as a 662 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: global superpower and give it more and more problems at home. Well, 663 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: and here's one of the major things we've talked about 664 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: this before that is similar to and why we're comparing 665 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,320 Speaker 1: this to putin or why where why this is important. 666 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: Rather than just wielding a weapon to attack some thing 667 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: or the might of let's say a naval force or something, 668 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: this kind of battle, this kind of play occurs as 669 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: a subversion much more than and and you know, an 670 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: actual attack, right right exactly. Yeah, this is a war 671 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: fought in terms of diplomacy asymmetrically subterfuge. This is not 672 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: um battalions meeting each other in a proxy country. It's 673 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: that destabilization. That's one of the main things. You're you're 674 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: not you're not exploding it. You're just making the foundations 675 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: so weak that it crumbles under its own weight. And 676 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: there's some economic warfare as well, using Russia's gas, oil 677 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries. Like 678 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 1: years back, Uh, there was this legitimate concern and Russia 679 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: did it successfully, this legitimate concern that they could turn 680 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: off the natural gas faucet because they were a supplier 681 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: right to a lot of Eastern Europe. And they did 682 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: it a couple of times. Right, So these tools they're 683 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: saying are more effective for these purposes that military might 684 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: would be. And let's let's walk through some of the 685 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: goals in this book Foundation Geopolitics and see whether they 686 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: match up with real world events. First off, Ducan Alexander 687 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,320 Speaker 1: Ducan strongly believes that the UK should be separated from Europe. 688 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: That's happening, it really is. In he was like, let's 689 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 1: break up the party. Something the party needs to get 690 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,640 Speaker 1: broken up. Britain's got to get out of the European picture. 691 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: And now we call it brexit. Brexit has not happened yet, 692 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: but it's continue, you know what's on the precipice, right. 693 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 1: And then Dugan also said Ukraine should be annexed by Russia. Yeah, 694 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: because quote Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, 695 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: no particular cultural import or universals significance, no geographic uniqueness, 696 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:08,720 Speaker 1: no ethnic exclusiveness. It's certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous 697 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: danger for all of Eurasia. And without resolving the Ukrainian problem, 698 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics. 699 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: What while first of all, but second of all, what 700 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 1: what happened? What's what's what is attempting to happen? In Ukraine? 701 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: CRIMEA right? Yeah, uh, okay, so we got to to 702 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: for two for two so far to in progress In 703 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: the United States, he says Russia should use its special 704 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 1: services domestically in special services, special services. It's a hard 705 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: wish wish uh, special services to fuel instability and separatism. 706 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:56,840 Speaker 1: He says, provoke, provoke racist. Russia should introduce geopolitical disorder 707 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:02,320 Speaker 1: into internal American activity, encourage all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social, 708 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:10,359 Speaker 1: and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements extremist, racist, sectarian, 709 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: thus destabilized internal political processes in the US. And then 710 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: he says it would also make sense if at the 711 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: same time we support isolationist tendencies in American politics that 712 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: sounds familiar, it's happening. It's it's like it's you know, 713 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: at least there are we know they're approvable attempts from 714 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: the Russian side to foment that kind of discord. And again, 715 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: we cannot emphasize enough that this argument here is not 716 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 1: saying let's pick a side. It's saying let's let's back 717 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: up every side. And these groups, these extremist groups are 718 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 1: generally not going to get along with one another. They 719 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,239 Speaker 1: have a different version of how the world and the 720 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,319 Speaker 1: country in which they live should be. Let's back every 721 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: side that's on the periphery or like at an extreme right. Essentially, yeah, 722 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,359 Speaker 1: there's no there's no modern no Church of moderation being 723 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: backed by by this guy. Right, so like so, by 724 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: this argument and this is just speculation, I'm just making 725 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 1: things up here. By this argument, um, militant uh vegan 726 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: terrorists are no different from neo Nazis, even though they 727 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't get along. But the vegans are gonna, you know, 728 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: go out there in campaign to get you to stop 729 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,520 Speaker 1: eating meat, and that's gonna make you frustrated because you 730 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,359 Speaker 1: like meat. Or they'll blow up livestock infrastructure and you know, 731 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 1: these are just examples that seem indicative of plans coming 732 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: to fruition. There are things that haven't happened yet. He 733 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,160 Speaker 1: advises that China, the country of China should be contained 734 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 1: and as much as possible dismantled. Not much success on 735 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: that front, sorry, Alex. But but they're also plans for 736 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:04,280 Speaker 1: um Armenia to Turkey, the Middle East, North Africa, and 737 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: these these plans, it's still kind of hard to see 738 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,200 Speaker 1: Iran as a core. Seen as an ally. The idea 739 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: is to form alliances with two or three countries in 740 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: different regions. But people so it sounds crazy, right, but 741 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,840 Speaker 1: people are taking this seriously. Foreign Policy described this book 742 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 1: as one of the most curious, impressive, and terrifying books 743 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: to come out of Russia during the entire post Soviet era. 744 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,560 Speaker 1: And it's they said. It was more sober than his 745 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: previous books. It's better, argued, it's shorn of occult references numerology, traditionalism, 746 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: and other eccentric metaphysics, all of which he used at 747 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 1: his previous works. Yeah, those are a little more crazy, 748 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 1: what we say. Sure, it was they were not in 749 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: their rights, right, He didn't he didn't say, look at 750 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 1: these rooms. But this, I mean, but this brings us 751 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,280 Speaker 1: to springs, to our conclusions. So that's the book. And 752 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: if you do not speak Russian, or you don't happen 753 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: to have a PDF of that computer translated version, you're 754 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,760 Speaker 1: going to be hard pressed to find it in Russian 755 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,720 Speaker 1: or in any other language. Honestly, um and surprising because 756 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: that book sold out four times in four editions, and 757 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,120 Speaker 1: it's still not in English. So we have to we 758 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 1: have to ask ourselves if we if we're thinking with 759 00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 1: clear minds, how much of Russia's actions come from this playbook? 760 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,399 Speaker 1: The so called playbook? Is that strategy on its own? 761 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: You think to not have an English translation that's readily available, 762 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,799 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, all it takes is uh, 763 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,080 Speaker 1: someone who speaks Russian and English. Town, Yeah, which is 764 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,720 Speaker 1: a huge undertaking to translate a book. But yeah, I wonder. 765 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: According to John Dunlop, Hoover Institution specialist on the Russian right, 766 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,480 Speaker 1: there has probably not been another book published in Russia 767 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: during the post communist period which is exerted a comparable 768 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:05,480 Speaker 1: influence on Russian military, police and foreign policy elite. So 769 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 1: people are reading this and they're talking about it. It's 770 00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,440 Speaker 1: the Harry Potter series of its field, right, but a 771 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,560 Speaker 1: lot of people in the US are not aware of it, 772 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,600 Speaker 1: and we have to ask, like, how is this book? 773 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,920 Speaker 1: Are people reading this book and saying, boom, that's the plan? 774 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,640 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Is Vladimir Putin reading this 775 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,720 Speaker 1: book and saying, all right, man, crimea, let's do it yolo? 776 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,600 Speaker 1: I don't think he says yoo. Maybe. Well, we know 777 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: that while he's definitely influenced, military thought may have influenced 778 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: Putin to a degree. He and Vladimir Putin don't always 779 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,759 Speaker 1: see eye to eye. He sees Vladimir Putin as a 780 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,760 Speaker 1: compromise as arguably better, but he would argue that this 781 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,439 Speaker 1: tendency should go further. He wants a super Putent, that's 782 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 1: his phrase, someone who was more nationalistic, less compromising with 783 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 1: the threat of American globalism and NATO and yes and 784 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: uber flat just so and again, not everything described in 785 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: this book has come to pass. It does appear that 786 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,279 Speaker 1: he has predicted several things that are occurring now. But 787 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,800 Speaker 1: this leads us to the question, what's what's next? Is 788 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:23,280 Speaker 1: the Russian government, the actual Russian government and the current president, 789 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,040 Speaker 1: are they genuinely following a step by step guide outlined 790 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,640 Speaker 1: in a textbook, or what's going on? Is Dugan just 791 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,800 Speaker 1: a nut job conspiracy theorists that people are maybe taking 792 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,799 Speaker 1: too seriously for propaganda value. This is the way that 793 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,080 Speaker 1: that bugs me. Like back to your question, Matt, he 794 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: just asked a second ago, why isn't there an English translation? 795 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 1: Why was that admittedly bad English translation pulled from Amazon. 796 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,920 Speaker 1: I know, man, nobody wants nobody wants your opponent to 797 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: have a playbook of what's going on and what you're 798 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,360 Speaker 1: gonna do. I'm not saying that's what's happening. It is 799 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: strikingly curious, though, And I remember back in the day, 800 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,480 Speaker 1: I believe there was a there was an interview perhaps 801 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 1: with him that you can find where with him and 802 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,799 Speaker 1: then a couple other people, and they're describing the long game, 803 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,239 Speaker 1: and it's describing all of these things that are that 804 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 1: we've just outlined here roughly. At least, that's a great 805 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: point because we can see a lot of the if 806 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: you cannot speaker read Russian, as neither of us can, 807 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 1: you can see in a lot of his lectures the 808 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 1: same points. So if you can't get ahold of the book, 809 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,600 Speaker 1: you can always literally, like you just said, Matt, hop 810 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,439 Speaker 1: over to YouTube search for Dougan Foundations geopolitics. Just those 811 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: three words and you will embark upon a very deep 812 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. A lot of it's the geopolitical stuff we 813 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: talked about. But then he you see other lectures where 814 00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:02,680 Speaker 1: he gets progressively further out there. Yeah, do it. So 815 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,799 Speaker 1: just turn this off and start start watching videos. So 816 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,319 Speaker 1: we want to know what you think. Is this Is 817 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,640 Speaker 1: this all propaganda? Is there sand to it? Is this 818 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:20,120 Speaker 1: guy guiding policy for a country that's perfectly capable of 819 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,680 Speaker 1: affecting other foreign powers? Or is this, you know, just 820 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,160 Speaker 1: kind of exaggerated. Yeah, let us know what you think, 821 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,400 Speaker 1: because I know what I think. It scares me. No, 822 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,359 Speaker 1: I'm just joking. Um, So right to us. You can 823 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter and on Facebook where a conspiracy stuff. 824 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,440 Speaker 1: On Instagram, we are a conspiracy stuff show. Share your 825 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,000 Speaker 1: thoughts with us. If you don't want to do that, 826 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,640 Speaker 1: give us a phone call, leave a message and it 827 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,160 Speaker 1: could get on the show. 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As a production of I heart 838 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,799 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 839 00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,800 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 840 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.