Speaker 1: Welcome to Kesha and the Creepy is today. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to be talking to our next guest now, I
Speaker 1: don't know how else about it. His name is Oberon
Speaker 1: Zell Ravenhart, and he's a real wizard. He made unicorns,
Speaker 1: he went on a quest for mermaids, and he lived
Speaker 1: next door to a serial killer. And he's written many
Speaker 1: books and we're talking to him today, so we have
Speaker 1: a lot of ground to cover. Let's get into this.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Kesha and the Creepies. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining me today. I am so excited to have
Speaker 1: the wizard oz Oberon Zell raven Heart. So if you
Speaker 1: could just tell our listeners who you are and what
Speaker 1: you do. I'm Oberon Zell. I'm a wizard. I am
Speaker 1: the founder and headmaster of a school of wizardry called
Speaker 1: the Gray School of Wizardry. I am the founder, a
Speaker 1: co founder and Primate of the Church of All Worlds,
Speaker 1: which is the oldest and first established pagan church in
Speaker 1: the world. First one to claim, uh the identity of
Speaker 1: pagan back in seven is when we first took that on.
Speaker 1: It goes back quite a ways. I'm an author. I've
Speaker 1: written a number of books on mostly on magical subjects
Speaker 1: and also mythical beasties and forgotten history things like that,
Speaker 1: and many more to come. I'm still working on that.
Speaker 1: At one point I raised unicorns, which seems to have
Speaker 1: been a bit of interest. Yes, oh my gosh, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy you brought that up. So what else would
Speaker 1: you like to know? What else would you like? I
Speaker 1: would just love basically when I came across you on
Speaker 1: the internet. So there's blessings that come with the Internet
Speaker 1: as well as frustrations. I'm all over the place. Google
Speaker 1: my name, you got all kinds of stuff. Yeah, Oberon
Speaker 1: Zel Raven Heart, who's a wizard. I came across and
Speaker 1: then I started diving deeper and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: unicorns came up, which to anyone who knows me, they
Speaker 1: know I'm obsessed with unicorns and rainbows, and I'm basically
Speaker 1: like a five year old, but I'm thirty three. So
Speaker 1: it took me on this journey to finding you. It
Speaker 1: was a quest to finding Oberon. So we found you,
Speaker 1: tracked you down, and now I just wanted to like
Speaker 1: hear from you how you created unicorns or did they
Speaker 1: exist in the past, Like how tell me about that. Well,
Speaker 1: many many years ago when my beloved life mate Morning Glory,
Speaker 1: who we had forty years together until she h she
Speaker 1: passed away, discorporated, moved on whatever six years ago. But
Speaker 1: when we first got together we had so many shared interests.
Speaker 1: It was just uncanny we were actually reading the same
Speaker 1: novel at the time we met. It was that and Kenny.
Speaker 1: And one of the things we were interested in, as
Speaker 1: we discovered earlier, was critters of all kinds. I mean,
Speaker 1: we worked with critter care for during our life where
Speaker 1: our house was a zoo inhabited all kinds of crutters.
Speaker 1: We lived out in the woods for many years with
Speaker 1: all kinds of wildlife being part of our household. We're
Speaker 1: very much into animals, and we were particularly interested in
Speaker 1: the mythical beasties, the legendary ones um you know, and
Speaker 1: this range from from imaginary creatures entirely to ones that
Speaker 1: were actually maybe real, but we haven't been able to
Speaker 1: confirm them in cryptozoology, like you know, Lotinous Monster and
Speaker 1: big Foot and stuff like that. And we are feeling
Speaker 1: was that behind every story there was a grain of
Speaker 1: truth somewhere, and we thought it would be really neat
Speaker 1: to write a book in which we explored these stories
Speaker 1: and found out what they were based on, found out
Speaker 1: the truth at the heart of it. So we set
Speaker 1: out to do research on that, and the book was
Speaker 1: going to be called Creatures of Night Brought to Light,
Speaker 1: which was inspired from the novel The Last Unicorn by
Speaker 1: Peter Bagel, where there's this kind of a gipsy witch
Speaker 1: who has a little traveling menagerie and she calls it
Speaker 1: Creatures of Night Brought to Light. So we thought that
Speaker 1: would be a cool title for a book. So as
Speaker 1: we were doing our research and traveling around the country,
Speaker 1: this is before there was an internet, before you could
Speaker 1: google stuff. Now it's easy, but back in those days
Speaker 1: you had to go to libraries, and we traveled around
Speaker 1: and and visited libraries all over the place, and in
Speaker 1: one of those at the University of Oregon and Eugene, Oregon,
Speaker 1: we discovered the secret of the Unicorn, and that is
Speaker 1: basically that unicorns were real animals who actually existed at
Speaker 1: various times in past, but they were not a species,
Speaker 1: so they did not continue. They were in art form
Speaker 1: that was created by a secret um process of animal
Speaker 1: husbandry that had been discovered and lost, and we discovered
Speaker 1: several times throughout history and applied to different species of
Speaker 1: horned animals. So the earliest unicorns that we saw from
Speaker 1: the Bronze Age, like four thousand years ago were tarine.
Speaker 1: They were bull unicorns. There was a the Oriental unicorn
Speaker 1: are cherving their deer unicorns. They have branching horn. The
Speaker 1: h The Golden Age of Greece was inaugurated by the
Speaker 1: appearance of an airing ram unicorn at the court of
Speaker 1: the newly inaugurated um King of Athens, Pericles, whose reign
Speaker 1: was the Golden Age of Greece. There are many many
Speaker 1: of these that have here, but the ones that were
Speaker 1: the most famous were the caprine unicorns we see in
Speaker 1: the medieval tapestries. Those are the ones with the beards. Now,
Speaker 1: there's only one kind of animal on the planet mammal
Speaker 1: that has hoofs and beards in that's goats, and we
Speaker 1: set about finding the right breeding stock to be the
Speaker 1: animals that look like the tapestries. Everybody always assumes, naturally,
Speaker 1: because of all appearances, that they grow out of the skull,
Speaker 1: but they don't. Their growth is precipitated, stimulated by glands
Speaker 1: that are in the skin over the center over the
Speaker 1: forehead before birth, and they're in there purely in the skin,
Speaker 1: and these are called horn buds. And there's a little
Speaker 1: glands and within the first twenty four hours after birth,
Speaker 1: these glands start secreting enzymes, and the enzymes percolate down
Speaker 1: into the bone and stimulate the development of horns at
Speaker 1: that point. So it does end up going into the
Speaker 1: bone eventually, the enzymes do. But what before they do.
Speaker 1: The skin is loose, just like the skin on the
Speaker 1: back of your hand or on your own forehead, and
Speaker 1: these can be manipulated. And if the tissue is manipulated
Speaker 1: so that both of the nodes secrete their enzymes in
Speaker 1: one spot, a single horn will grow rather than two
Speaker 1: separate ones. And the trick is uniting the hornbuds prior
Speaker 1: to the beginning of the process. And this um this
Speaker 1: was actually a discovery that was made by a biologist
Speaker 1: name of Franklin Dove in the nineteen thirties at the
Speaker 1: main research station in in in Maine, the state of Maine,
Speaker 1: and he was interested in he was studying horn development
Speaker 1: and he discovered that's how horns developed, and then he
Speaker 1: did he was interested in unicorns just out of curiosity
Speaker 1: and fascination. He said, I wonder if that may be
Speaker 1: how unicorns could have been created. So he tried it
Speaker 1: on a newborn bull calf and it worked, and he
Speaker 1: produced He produced this dificent taurine unicorn that got very
Speaker 1: little attention because it was just the middle of the
Speaker 1: beginning of World War two and everybody forgotten. Besides that,
Speaker 1: they didn't look like anybody's idea of a unicorn. It
Speaker 1: was a big bull with a single horn. But the
Speaker 1: earliest there aren't believed. Nobody cared about this. Well it
Speaker 1: was odd. It just kind of got lost and forgotten
Speaker 1: and obscured by history. But look, think of this. You
Speaker 1: said that, Um, everybody these days you talked to you
Speaker 1: asked about unicorns, and everybody, well, they're just a mythical beast.
Speaker 1: They're not real, you know, It's just it's just not
Speaker 1: a real thing. And yet it was only forty years
Speaker 1: ago in that living unicorns were brought back to the
Speaker 1: world and were all the big sensation for the entire
Speaker 1: decade of the eighties that we were in every newspaper,
Speaker 1: every magazine or TV shows, books. It was huge. It
Speaker 1: was a sensation, and forty years later, the world has forgotten?
Speaker 1: Are unicorns getting written out of history? Well that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting? Isn't that fascinating? How much else has
Speaker 1: been written out of history? How much else have we
Speaker 1: lost and forgotten? How many of the things as myths
Speaker 1: and legends were actually something true? Which is what initially
Speaker 1: was the start of our book. That's what we wanted
Speaker 1: to write a book about. And we did write the book.
Speaker 1: And there's a chapter in it about the unicorns, and
Speaker 1: there's chapters in it about mermaids and unicorns and dragons
Speaker 1: and all kinds of things. Can you tell me about
Speaker 1: mermaids because I really, um, I find I fancy myself
Speaker 1: a mermaid, So I want to know your your wisdoms
Speaker 1: of the mermaids. So as for mermaids. After that, after
Speaker 1: we made our lease agreement with the Circus, we decided,
Speaker 1: will what are we gonna do next? What can we
Speaker 1: do for an encore? And at that time there were
Speaker 1: reports coming into the Crypto Zoological Society, which we had joined,
Speaker 1: about sightings of mermaids um in the Coral Sea in
Speaker 1: and off of an island called New Ireland, just just
Speaker 1: north of New Guinea. And we said well, we should
Speaker 1: get up an expedition then and go and find him.
Speaker 1: That would seem like a pretty cool thing to do.
Speaker 1: So we all took Scooba lessons. We got a crew
Speaker 1: of thirteen people, including an underwater film crew that had
Speaker 1: done a movie called The Deep, and they joined us
Speaker 1: for that and we hired a dive boat and we
Speaker 1: sailed to the island of New Ireland and there they
Speaker 1: were and we found them. Um, it was a lot
Speaker 1: more to the adventure than that, And you can see
Speaker 1: the whole story in the video that was made as
Speaker 1: a video documentary called The Wizard Odds, so it's in there,
Speaker 1: so they're the truth behind that legend. Is also a
Speaker 1: living creature that is called the fish mary or the fishwoman,
Speaker 1: which is basically equivalent to our word mermaid, which means
Speaker 1: woman of the sea. And the main reason for that
Speaker 1: identification is that the females have breasts like a human woman.
Speaker 1: And and the idea was that everything that has lives
Speaker 1: on land has an analog in the sea, so we
Speaker 1: have sea lions and sea elephants and you know, sea
Speaker 1: horses and all these kind of things. So the idea
Speaker 1: of having sea women with these creatures seem logical, and
Speaker 1: many people have associated the mermaid legend with Syrenea, which
Speaker 1: is essentially correct, but they mistakenly identified them with dugongs,
Speaker 1: which don't look anything like that, and they have this
Speaker 1: big paddle shaped tail like a spoon, whereas the the
Speaker 1: the the sorry not to goods manatees, sorry manatees, manatees,
Speaker 1: Is that what it was? Because I saw the video
Speaker 1: the wizard. Yeah, and the manatees are not are not
Speaker 1: the same at all. They're they're big, fat, slow moving
Speaker 1: freshwater critters with these big, flat, spoon shaped tails. But
Speaker 1: these animals, the ones that give rise to the legend
Speaker 1: of the Mermaid, are as different from that as a
Speaker 1: sea lion is from a walrus. In other words, they
Speaker 1: live in the ocean. They're fast and sleek, and have
Speaker 1: a tail like a whale tail. It was beautiful fluke
Speaker 1: to tail, and they're extremely rare and probably on the
Speaker 1: verge of extinction at this point, so it's um it's
Speaker 1: quite an issue, and our discovery of them identified with
Speaker 1: the Mermaid legend was a big deal because we observed
Speaker 1: them in the wild behavior that was not known at
Speaker 1: all to have occurred. So but we tracked it down.
Speaker 1: We tracked the legend down to its source and we
Speaker 1: did a big report for the Cryptal Zoological Society, and
Speaker 1: we filmed the whole thing and came home pretty broke
Speaker 1: and that was that was the end of the story
Speaker 1: with that. Was that sad as someone who it was
Speaker 1: very sack. It was tragic because while we were at
Speaker 1: the village with it, the sightings had been done. Um
Speaker 1: the one evening, a little Japanese tugboat called Cuddles pulled
Speaker 1: into the into the harbor and anchored next to us
Speaker 1: and the eat there have been a Japanese enterprise on
Speaker 1: the island where they were cutting down the forest and
Speaker 1: putting piling the logs monstrous, big old rainforest logs up
Speaker 1: into a raft at the beach, and then the idea
Speaker 1: would be eventually this big, huge ship would come and
Speaker 1: a little tugboat would come up and tie up the
Speaker 1: raft of logs and haul it out to the big
Speaker 1: ship where they would take it to Japan and sank
Speaker 1: them all in the water, awaiting the end of the
Speaker 1: total deforestation of the rainforests of the islands. It's a
Speaker 1: big story, kind of an awful one actually, and we
Speaker 1: discovered all this going on. So that evening, however, we
Speaker 1: were on shore with the local folks having a sing,
Speaker 1: sing and uh, you know, having a nice little feast
Speaker 1: and singing songs to each other. We sang them grateful
Speaker 1: dead songs. We had musicians and they sang us their
Speaker 1: songs that they knew, which was really sad because these
Speaker 1: people have been there for maybe forty thousand years. These
Speaker 1: are the last neander tall people dennis Ovans, we now
Speaker 1: say um and their traditions went back to the dawn
Speaker 1: of time. But the missionaries had showed up there around
Speaker 1: World War two and had forbidden them their own customs
Speaker 1: and language, and they had taken from them their artifacts
Speaker 1: and put them in museums and had instead taught them
Speaker 1: Christian hymns in Susserunga, their language, and all they could
Speaker 1: do was apologetically seeing Christian hymns like a way in
Speaker 1: a manger and stuff in there sunga language. So that
Speaker 1: was also a tragedy. And the next morning there was
Speaker 1: we got up to do our morning sighting because we
Speaker 1: had seen them the night before in the bay just
Speaker 1: at sunset, and so we got up at dawn to
Speaker 1: see the dawn appearance because they only came in at
Speaker 1: dawn and sunset. Otherwise they lived down in the ocean.
Speaker 1: And there was something up on the shore, and with
Speaker 1: a feeling of dread in my heart, I jumped overboard
Speaker 1: and swam ashore. And there was the female of this
Speaker 1: family pod. There had been a male of female and
Speaker 1: a baby, and she was dead at the shore with
Speaker 1: a bullet hole in her. And the little tugboat was gone,
Speaker 1: and the logs had not been taken, and it was
Speaker 1: pretty easy to see what had happened that somebody on
Speaker 1: the little boat that had simply shot her and then oh,
Speaker 1: we're going to be in trouble, so they left. But
Speaker 1: what would be the purpose of that? I mean that see,
Speaker 1: that's where I would not know how to reconcile like
Speaker 1: I would get. So yep, we were. We were heartbroken
Speaker 1: and angry and upset and freaked out. It was devastating
Speaker 1: for us as well as for the people of the village,
Speaker 1: and you can see that in the video. It was
Speaker 1: just why people would do a thing like that. I
Speaker 1: don't know, why do people go around carrying guns and
Speaker 1: shoot at things? You know, Um, I don't understand big
Speaker 1: game hunters. I don't understand people who go to Africa
Speaker 1: and want to shoot rhinos and elephants and lions. I
Speaker 1: don't either. I thought maybe in your wizardry you would
Speaker 1: have some sort of understanding of that part of humanity,
Speaker 1: because that's something that also is like such a huge
Speaker 1: question to me, like why I don't understand that urge.
Speaker 1: I think he has something to do with wanting to
Speaker 1: have dominion over nature. If you recall the story of
Speaker 1: the Garden of Eden in the Bible, after the people
Speaker 1: are cast out of the garden for disobedience and becoming enlightened. Uh,
Speaker 1: the order is that you shall go out and have
Speaker 1: dominion over every creature on the earth. No. Wait, that's
Speaker 1: after the Noah's flood. Sorry, Noah's after That's when it
Speaker 1: is Noah. Yeah, when he lands, then God says, okay,
Speaker 1: you shall now have dominion over everything that lives on
Speaker 1: the earth, and everything that crawls on the land, and
Speaker 1: that swims in the sea and flies in the air.
Speaker 1: You shall be the terror and the dread of every
Speaker 1: living thing. And that's the charge that's given to humanity
Speaker 1: in that story. And there's people who feel that that's
Speaker 1: what they want to do, that drive to dominate, to
Speaker 1: have dominion is a powerful force, evidently because it has
Speaker 1: led us to empires and conquests and wars and tyrants
Speaker 1: and dictators throughout all of history, a lot of destruction
Speaker 1: that I feel like, well, because this is something I
Speaker 1: write songs about a lot. Is just why people need
Speaker 1: chaos and why we need conflict and drama, and I
Speaker 1: just that need. I have it. Most people I know
Speaker 1: have some fascination with a version of it, but I
Speaker 1: guess I just don't understand where that comes from or
Speaker 1: how to eradicate it from my heart, because I feel
Speaker 1: like coming to peace is the ultimate like that's the
Speaker 1: ultimate objective. It is, it is, and we have to
Speaker 1: go past this, we really do. We have to outgrow this.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a great plague of humanity, this idea
Speaker 1: that we must have dominion over everything everyone else. And
Speaker 1: and a new culture has been emerging and recovering. I mean,
Speaker 1: once upon a time, I think that's the way we were,
Speaker 1: and many many people are, you know, perfectly nice. And
Speaker 1: the traditional Native American aspect about how nature is perceived
Speaker 1: that we see in uh, you know, words of Chief
Speaker 1: Seattle and stuff like that are very profound that we are.
Speaker 1: I mean, the real lesson here is that we are
Speaker 1: all children of the same mother, and we are all one.
Speaker 1: We are not separate beings. We do not Our mission
Speaker 1: is not to have dominion over the earth and all
Speaker 1: of all the creatures. Our mission is to um to
Speaker 1: achieve that kind of a oneness, to restore the family,
Speaker 1: to restore into heal, into nurture and protect and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. And it is emerging. No, I definitely think
Speaker 1: that there's progress in both directions. It's like it feels
Speaker 1: like the pendulum swings towards darkness and it's really intense,
Speaker 1: but then it swings towards light and it's really intense,
Speaker 1: like kind of like it's all a question of which
Speaker 1: wolful wind is that you want to take the old story,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's the one you feed. So we
Speaker 1: have to feed the world we want to have, and
Speaker 1: this is a good time for that, because um is is.
Speaker 1: I've mentioned a few times in this conversation, but they
Speaker 1: haven't really gotten too far. This is the the next
Speaker 1: sixty year cultural renaissance cycle is that every sixty years
Speaker 1: back to the Italian Renaissance of the fourteen eighties, there's
Speaker 1: been a cultural renaissance, the Reformation of the fifteen forties,
Speaker 1: the the Golden Age of the Elizabethan English Renaissance of
Speaker 1: the sixteen hundred's, the Scientific Revolution of the sixteen sixties,
Speaker 1: the Great Awakening of the seventeen twenties, the French and
Speaker 1: American revolutions and Age of Reason the seventeen eighties, the
Speaker 1: Transcendentalist Awakening of the eighteen forties, the Golden Dawn at
Speaker 1: the turn of the century, and the New Age cultural
Speaker 1: revolution of the nineteen sixties. And now we're at the
Speaker 1: dawning year of the next one, which is being called
Speaker 1: the Awakening. And so here we are again, here we are.
Speaker 1: So do you believe that, like what do you believe
Speaker 1: the Awakening is going to bring? Ah? Well, I think
Speaker 1: that there will be a new wave of positive consciousness.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the previous ones. Look at what
Speaker 1: they have brought. The last time around brought us um,
Speaker 1: you know, the sexual freedom movement, the free speech movement,
Speaker 1: the civil rights movement, the women's movement, the gay rights movement,
Speaker 1: the environmental movement, and the pagan movement for that matter,
Speaker 1: and so many of the movements of positive energy that
Speaker 1: have shaped the world over the last sixty years. All
Speaker 1: began the last time, and then the previous ones. We
Speaker 1: have the same thing, the poetry, the music, the art
Speaker 1: of each of these film museums, you know, and still
Speaker 1: inspire us. You know, We're still play the music of Beeto,
Speaker 1: and we still read the poetry of Whitman. You know,
Speaker 1: he's still you know, look at the art of Michael
Speaker 1: Angelo and Leonardo da Vinci. These all occurred during the
Speaker 1: sense when when I think about like the latest one
Speaker 1: would be the sixties, the nineteen sixties, then I think
Speaker 1: of the music at that time, it's always so inspirational,
Speaker 1: just full of like each of these ages is accompanied
Speaker 1: by its own music, and you, as a music musician,
Speaker 1: are in a space now to be bringing part of
Speaker 1: the new revolution of what is the music going to
Speaker 1: be of this age? The music of the Awakening. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, without having heard your stuff, that you're
Speaker 1: already doing it well, no pressure, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: try to fully embrace the awakening and try to bring
Speaker 1: it into the musical realm of the soundtrack of the Awakening.
Speaker 1: It's crazy to me that what the world has forgotten,
Speaker 1: and like what you said, earlier when we first started talking.
Speaker 1: What just kind of gets like women in the patriarch
Speaker 1: you get written out of history, and that is a
Speaker 1: sad omission. And I think that women have been liberally
Speaker 1: erased from history by centuries of patriarchal oppression. The rise
Speaker 1: of the patriarchy, which has occurred in not just one
Speaker 1: single thing, but many episodes over the last thirty six
Speaker 1: hundred years or so at least, has some largely been
Speaker 1: designed to try to disempower women and erase women from
Speaker 1: the history and from the recording. One of the greatest
Speaker 1: of all, in my mind, one of the great women wizards,
Speaker 1: was Hypatia of Alexandria, and she was the last librarian
Speaker 1: of the Great Library and an incredible teacher and an
Speaker 1: amazing woman. And they made a wonderful movie about her
Speaker 1: called ed Gora, which I highly recommend. It's very authentic.
Speaker 1: She was an incredible woman. You know, um hat Chupsuit
Speaker 1: was the first recorded female pharaoh, and since it was
Speaker 1: so unusual for women to rule, she even had to
Speaker 1: wear a little fake beard, you know, attached to her
Speaker 1: ears with a strap. It was like, very cute. Why
Speaker 1: does it seem like men the patriarchy want to erase
Speaker 1: women and from history is it a what is that?
Speaker 1: What does that need power? Women have a different kind
Speaker 1: of an agenda overall when it comes to power, women's
Speaker 1: goals tend to be towards creating security and and thinking
Speaker 1: towards the succeeding generations. The women have generally raised the
Speaker 1: children and bear the children and want to make the
Speaker 1: world a better place for them, whereas men want to rule,
Speaker 1: you know they and these are competing agendas very often
Speaker 1: and every we find in history there are many societies
Speaker 1: which you see, they have a stopping point. They're frozen
Speaker 1: at a moment in time. And if that may be
Speaker 1: the Middle Ages, like uh, we see in the Middle East,
Speaker 1: they're frozen in the Middle Ages right there, they're still
Speaker 1: stuck in this time. We see places that are frozen
Speaker 1: in the Stone Age. And in all of these there's
Speaker 1: a story, it may be a historical story or just
Speaker 1: a legend in which the men rose up and took
Speaker 1: away the power from women because prime primarily originally women
Speaker 1: held the greatest power because of having the power to
Speaker 1: bring forth new life. Without that, you've got nothing, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, you get rid of the women and you
Speaker 1: don't have any more babies. That's kind of basic there.
Speaker 1: And so in the fundamental society structure, the men's job
Speaker 1: was to provide and nurture and protect the women and
Speaker 1: to be that, to be the you know, to go
Speaker 1: out and do the hunting, to go out and you know,
Speaker 1: defend the village against invaders, all that kind of good stuff.
Speaker 1: But all of the advances of civilization we consider cultural
Speaker 1: advances in um, well, all all the arts, all the
Speaker 1: domestic arts. The domestication means making a home, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's what women have been engaged in and uh
Speaker 1: invented basketry and weaving and and cloth making and cooking
Speaker 1: and pottery and it goes on and on an and
Speaker 1: all these things, whereas men's primary contributions historically been weapons.
Speaker 1: That's what the men want to do. Just like any
Speaker 1: new wonderful invention that people come up with today, the
Speaker 1: military comes in and wants to figure out how to
Speaker 1: recognize it. And that's what the guys do. It's embarrassing.
Speaker 1: As a guy, I really well, I wanted to know
Speaker 1: what that is, that desire to destroy versus I do
Speaker 1: feel as a woman even when I see someone I
Speaker 1: don't know. I feel very protective and um, you know,
Speaker 1: if I go out and I see another woman at
Speaker 1: a bar or something like, I will always be super
Speaker 1: protective of other people and other women, even other children.
Speaker 1: I see that I aren't my children. I don't particularly
Speaker 1: like children that much, but I am so much more protective.
Speaker 1: You know, as animals, we want to procreate and have
Speaker 1: our lineage go on in the world, but at the
Speaker 1: same time we have more and kill each other's children
Speaker 1: over whatever fill in the blank of religion, over oil,
Speaker 1: over whatever. And I just never understood that I've m
Speaker 1: I am a woman, but I also feel like I
Speaker 1: have a lot of masculine tendencies because I grew up
Speaker 1: without a dad, and I have really made my life
Speaker 1: for myself. So I feel like my yin and yang
Speaker 1: I have a I have a lot of both. Like
Speaker 1: the masculine is very strong, sometimes to the point where
Speaker 1: I wish it would calm down, and then I'm also
Speaker 1: very emotional, so then the feminine is very strong. I've
Speaker 1: got both sides flaring. I think the goal of the
Speaker 1: ideal optimal thing is balanced, as you said, the integration
Speaker 1: of the yinni yang and all of that and um
Speaker 1: and and in civilization, humanity, especially patriarchal humanity, has gotten
Speaker 1: way out of balance and it is driven on imbalance.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to know exactly where it started,
Speaker 1: but there was one particular moment in history that that
Speaker 1: is I think pivotal, and that was in sixteen b C.
Speaker 1: When um the Bronze Age came to an end and
Speaker 1: the Iron Age began with the devastating natural cataclysm, the
Speaker 1: explosion of a huge volcano north of Creek in the
Speaker 1: and and our legend of Atlantis stems from this event,
Speaker 1: and the events of that time also are whether recorded
Speaker 1: in the story of the Exodus. The parting of the
Speaker 1: Red Sea, for example, was a tsunami drawing the water
Speaker 1: out from that particular explosion. So we can pinpoint the
Speaker 1: date of these things to sixty seven because we have
Speaker 1: the lava and stuff, and it was it was devastating.
Speaker 1: And up to that time, the culture of the Mediterranean, Egypt,
Speaker 1: the Middle Kingdom of Egypt, the Middle Kingdom of the
Speaker 1: Middle Age of Greece, all these cultures were very um egalitarian.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't see these this big power struggle
Speaker 1: and weapons and wars and military stuff in that era,
Speaker 1: most of the cities were unfortified. You didn't see big
Speaker 1: walls around them and defenses. What we see is um
Speaker 1: You know, men and women are working together in partnership
Speaker 1: and building societies based on trade primarily, and we had
Speaker 1: trading empires where people were all over the world, very
Speaker 1: different than conquest in war and aggression. But then this
Speaker 1: thing happened, and it was incredibly destructive. And before that time,
Speaker 1: the orientation that people had religiously was towards the Earth,
Speaker 1: towards Mother Earth and her children. The We have the
Speaker 1: story of the Battle of the Titans and the Greek
Speaker 1: mythology where the Titans were the children of Mother Earth
Speaker 1: of Gaya and they were defeated by the rising new Olympians,
Speaker 1: who were the sky gods who conquered them. We see
Speaker 1: the same thing in the Norse mythology of the taking
Speaker 1: over from the Vanier, or in Christianity the story and Judaism,
Speaker 1: the story of the War in Heaven where the rebel
Speaker 1: angels were cast down and defeated. This is a recurrent
Speaker 1: kind of a theme of a conflict, and that all
Speaker 1: revolves around this particular moment in history that was pivotal
Speaker 1: because One of the things that happened at that time
Speaker 1: was a reign of Nicola iron meteorits meteorite all throughout
Speaker 1: the whole Middle East centered around the Black Sea, and
Speaker 1: iron in the ancient times could only be obtained from
Speaker 1: meteors meteoric iron. Forging iron from iron ore requires affords
Speaker 1: that has to reach temperatures that were simply not available
Speaker 1: in ancient times. So any iron that we had from
Speaker 1: the old days was always meteoric nicola iron. Well, there
Speaker 1: wasn't much of that, you know, there really wasn't. Most
Speaker 1: of the meteors are stony anyway, and very rare to
Speaker 1: find an iron one. But at this time, suddenly there
Speaker 1: was this rain from heavens of thunderbolts of the gods,
Speaker 1: is how they were interpreted. Because the people who lived
Speaker 1: in the steps of Asia around the Black Sea, especially
Speaker 1: to the north side of it, we're nomads, nomadic horse people.
Speaker 1: They were the people who first domesticated horses for riding,
Speaker 1: and they live that way. They just rode their horses
Speaker 1: on a great sea of grass with no features, no forests,
Speaker 1: no lakes, no rivers, no mountains, just an endless sea
Speaker 1: of grass. And so their markers were not on the ground,
Speaker 1: not terrestrial markers like we make now on our maps.
Speaker 1: Their maps were of the heavens, the stars, and the planets,
Speaker 1: and they named all the constellations, all the constellations that
Speaker 1: we now utilize. There's where they came from. These guys
Speaker 1: laying on their backs, they're looking at the stars and
Speaker 1: making star maps. We even see star maps in cave
Speaker 1: paintings on the ceilings of caves where people were doing that.
Speaker 1: And then suddenly, out of nowhere, suddenly these streaks of light,
Speaker 1: these thunderbolts from the heavens are raining down upon the
Speaker 1: obviously hurled by the gods, you know, because the planets
Speaker 1: also specifically were thought to be gods. All of our
Speaker 1: names of the planets today their names of gods, Jupiter
Speaker 1: and Venus, Mars, Saturn, you know, all of those Venus,
Speaker 1: all of them. And so this is what you got
Speaker 1: up there in this Suddenly, this particular bunch of people
Speaker 1: were equipped with invincible weaponry that the world had never
Speaker 1: seen before, and they were in the technology involved in
Speaker 1: working with copper, which everybody had at that time during
Speaker 1: during the Bronze, and copper age could easily be utilized
Speaker 1: to to beat nicolayon meteor at nicolayon, which is like
Speaker 1: stainless steel. It's it can also be magnetized, which makes
Speaker 1: it magic, which is also pretty cool. You could have
Speaker 1: magic swords that were magnetic. And with these iron weapons,
Speaker 1: with their swords and spears of iron points, they came
Speaker 1: crashing through the remnants of civilizations for that time that
Speaker 1: had been devastated by earthquakes and volcanoes and and tsunamis
Speaker 1: and stuff, which are all in the record, you know.
Speaker 1: And there's iron stuff cut through the copper and bronze
Speaker 1: shields and weapons like a hot knife through butter. And
Speaker 1: it was devastating. And this is called the Aryan invasion
Speaker 1: because the word Aryan means iron, and it also means meteorite.
Speaker 1: That's where the word comes from. Iron Aryan, meteorite, the
Speaker 1: same word, same thing. And so a new pantheon emerged,
Speaker 1: a new kind of God's, God's not of the earth,
Speaker 1: but of the sky. God's who were whose power was
Speaker 1: not in growth and regeneration, God's whose power was in
Speaker 1: destruction and devastation. And this became the new religion. Because
Speaker 1: these people had the weapons and they killed everybody who
Speaker 1: stood in their way. They just simply wiped him out.
Speaker 1: They destroyed the temples, they raped and murdered the priestesses,
Speaker 1: they killed the men trying to defend the villages. And
Speaker 1: out of that arose a whole new religion, a patriarchal
Speaker 1: mono theistic religion based on a powerful God who lived
Speaker 1: in the sky. Sound familiar at that moment, and this
Speaker 1: is the moment of the exodus and the interest of enough.
Speaker 1: At the same time, a new means of communicating emerged
Speaker 1: um and that's the alphabet. The Before that time, there
Speaker 1: was no alphabetic writing. Alpha writing was all done where
Speaker 1: it existed at all, in by drawing pictures hieroglyphs. People
Speaker 1: try to draw pictures and ideas. The first alphabet, that
Speaker 1: is a couple of dozen symbols that represented sounds of
Speaker 1: spoken speech phonemes, was invented by Moses to write down
Speaker 1: the Ten Commandments, because that you cannot write the ten
Speaker 1: Commandments and hieroglyphs, So we invented the first alphabet. Other
Speaker 1: alphabets were invented later on by other people. Mohammed inventedy
Speaker 1: the Arabic alphabet. So this is this began, and what
Speaker 1: this process in gave us was a shift in the
Speaker 1: in the hemispheres of our brain from one side to
Speaker 1: the other. The focus previously, when we were doing visual
Speaker 1: communications and um and and all the type of world
Speaker 1: from that was basically right brain stuff that the hemisphere
Speaker 1: brain you associate with intuition, emotion, dreams, music, poetry, all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that had been the primary locus
Speaker 1: of consciousness, and it's still the primary locus of consciousness,
Speaker 1: predominantly women, exactly. The left hemisphere was the hemisphere that
Speaker 1: governed mechanical stuff and practical things and and mathematical things
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff that we associate with
Speaker 1: the right hand. So the right hand versus the left
Speaker 1: hand kind of thinking here and that shifted. It shifted
Speaker 1: over two. So we got a whole new kind of
Speaker 1: a culture, a right handed culture. And all the weapons
Speaker 1: and tools that emerged were meant to be used only
Speaker 1: by the right hand. Trying to use ordinary scissors with
Speaker 1: your left hands, or almost any tools are all made.
Speaker 1: My mom is left handed, Does that mean she is
Speaker 1: more um left brain or right brain right which the
Speaker 1: sides of the brains control the opposite side, Yes, stronger.
Speaker 1: But here's the real kick. The communication between the atmospheres
Speaker 1: occurs right down the middle, in an area card called
Speaker 1: the corpus colossum that allows both sides to talk to
Speaker 1: each other. And in women, the corpus colosum is normally
Speaker 1: much much larger than it is normally in men. Now
Speaker 1: there are men whose corpus colosum is bigger and who
Speaker 1: communicate with each other with both sides, artists, musicians and
Speaker 1: so on, who have better communication, but by and march um,
Speaker 1: and especially in some extreme cases, the corpus colossum for
Speaker 1: men is a whole lot smaller, and they're not talking
Speaker 1: to the other side at all, especially the very extreme
Speaker 1: examples of the tyrants and misbilities some men I met
Speaker 1: really really believe you with that one. I mean, you
Speaker 1: don't have to look too far to see them in government,
Speaker 1: you know. Yes. So that's basically the story. And for
Speaker 1: the last thirty six hundred years, this uh new monotheistic
Speaker 1: religion worshiping an omnipotent sky father who destroyed by wrath
Speaker 1: and thunderbolts, had taken over the world and its various
Speaker 1: mutations to become the dominant religion. Because it's that's what
Speaker 1: it's all about. Is dominance, dominion. They want to rule
Speaker 1: the world. You know. In fact, the strongest sect of
Speaker 1: that today are called dominionists. That's that's what they even
Speaker 1: call themselves. They want to have dominion, they want to
Speaker 1: rule the dominius. It's it's the significant branch of Christianity,
Speaker 1: of which Vice President Pence is a is a prominent member.
Speaker 1: For example, they used to in fact, if kids were
Speaker 1: left handed, they would force them to become right handed.
Speaker 1: The left hand is called the sinister hand. That's the
Speaker 1: French for left Latin. And that also we think of
Speaker 1: that as evil. So a lot of women were persecuted
Speaker 1: and burned at the steaks, which is for being left handed.
Speaker 1: You know, my mom would definitely have been burned at
Speaker 1: the steak. I think I probably would have been burned
Speaker 1: by now too, if that was the thing that it
Speaker 1: was a purge to try in Europe, to try to
Speaker 1: simply purge the gene pool of intelligent, strong, powerful, creative,
Speaker 1: independent women. And I think that the most exciting thing
Speaker 1: of this time, this century, this past century, this past
Speaker 1: hundred years or so, going from um, you know, giving
Speaker 1: getting women getting the vote for a little over a
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, has been the re empowerment of women,
Speaker 1: women taking a new place back in the world. This
Speaker 1: is huge after thirty six hundred years of trying to
Speaker 1: suppress you guys. You know, they can't do that anymore.
Speaker 1: They're not allowed to burn. It's at least not in
Speaker 1: this country. I mean in the Middle East, you know,
Speaker 1: it's still that way. There is a rising of a
Speaker 1: new cult of really horrible guys called the insults involuntary solivates.
Speaker 1: I've heard of this, but I don't know. I would
Speaker 1: love for you to tell me about this, because I've
Speaker 1: recently heard about it, but I don't actually know. I
Speaker 1: don't know the facts about what an in cell is.
Speaker 1: It's basically guys who can't get laid because their their
Speaker 1: well they're not they're not nice, you know, That's what
Speaker 1: way of putting it. And they think that they are
Speaker 1: owed that that that that's what they should have and
Speaker 1: so uh they feel that rape and persecution to women
Speaker 1: and even killing women who won't put out is justified
Speaker 1: to them, and it's become a whole subculture. It can
Speaker 1: be very embarrassing to be human, especially when I see
Speaker 1: um the treatment of animals and just other human beings.
Speaker 1: Because I've read that you love animals. I had a
Speaker 1: connection with a book constrictor when You're young, and I
Speaker 1: have your book here, Grimmoire for the Apprentice Wizard, and
Speaker 1: this is by Oberon Zel raven Heart, and it is
Speaker 1: basically a handbook on how to start a journey into wizardry?
Speaker 1: Would you put it that way? Having written that book,
Speaker 1: realizing how that actually would put together a textbook, the
Speaker 1: next thing we had to do is to create a
Speaker 1: school to use it. So that kind of gave rise
Speaker 1: to the Gray School of wizard Rate started with that
Speaker 1: book and it's still a basic textbook for the first
Speaker 1: for the first level in the schools blowing my mind
Speaker 1: and I I feel like I was raised by a
Speaker 1: very open minded hippie woman, and it's there's so much
Speaker 1: information in here. Every chapter is like a different level.
Speaker 1: You're making my brain just step up into whole different
Speaker 1: perception level. Every chapter I read of this book. So
Speaker 1: I recommend everybody out there get this book. Is fascinating.
Speaker 1: It is so interesting. It makes me connect deeper to
Speaker 1: myself and also those around me, that animals around me,
Speaker 1: the earth, everything. It just kind of puts it all
Speaker 1: into this really beautiful perspective that I personally have been
Speaker 1: so busy that I don't stop and connect to that often,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm really excited to talk to you.
Speaker 1: But keep going. I didn't want to interrupt you. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to tell you that I love your book
Speaker 1: and I wanted everybody to know that your books amazing.
Speaker 1: When I formed the Gray Council, I got a hold
Speaker 1: of a collection of a couple of dozen prominent stages
Speaker 1: and majors that I happen to know in the magical community.
Speaker 1: I set forth the goal for the book to work
Speaker 1: together to create a handbook that we all wish we
Speaker 1: could have gotten ahold of when we were starting on
Speaker 1: the path, and one that come around our next incarnation.
Speaker 1: This is the book we want to get handed to
Speaker 1: us of our coming of age. You know that kind
Speaker 1: of and that it would be something that you keep
Speaker 1: is a lifetime reference like the Boy Scout Handbook. So
Speaker 1: I'm giving this to everyone for Christmas, and I know
Speaker 1: that Christmas is I mean, you tell you tell me.
Speaker 1: I actually don't know much about paganism because I know
Speaker 1: that the Church of All Worlds, you were one of
Speaker 1: the founding members of and that's neo paganism. So what
Speaker 1: is the what are some of like the founding beliefs
Speaker 1: and is it a religion or is it just more
Speaker 1: of a community. Well, you know, um, that's a very
Speaker 1: interesting way of putting it. Um it is a religion.
Speaker 1: Um it is also the Church of all worlds specifically,
Speaker 1: is a church. The church is a community of people
Speaker 1: who share a common vision and values, belief system, faith,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. So that's what constitutes a church. Um. Religion,
Speaker 1: the word means re linking and it's it's all of
Speaker 1: that that connects us with the larger world, with each other. Ever,
Speaker 1: anything like that, that's what the word means and should mean.
Speaker 1: It should not mean chochanity, which is unfortunately the way
Speaker 1: it's become understood by far too many people today. And
Speaker 1: we've been losing a really important concept which people replace
Speaker 1: with spirituality, which is all very nifty, but that's really
Speaker 1: only about the realm of the spirit you know, we'reas
Speaker 1: it's also important to connect with the realm of the
Speaker 1: material world as well. Everything everything should be connected. We've
Speaker 1: severed all these connections. We've severed men from women, humanity
Speaker 1: from nature, you know, light from dark, um. You know,
Speaker 1: every cost possible thing. We think we've we've split these
Speaker 1: things up into little separate categories where they should not be.
Speaker 1: We've separated racist nations, UM, languages, religions, faith, everything. And
Speaker 1: I think that part of our task, the real assignment
Speaker 1: for this stage of of society, now that we are
Speaker 1: just into the Aquarian age and also at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the next sixty year cultural renaissance cycle, which I
Speaker 1: like to say a little more about it is to
Speaker 1: bring it all back together. And paganism, that's what it's about.
Speaker 1: It is the old religion. It's the primal thing that
Speaker 1: means simply people of the country. It means country people um.
Speaker 1: In French, the word the Latin word pagan is translated
Speaker 1: as passan, which means peasant. Our word peasant comes from that.
Speaker 1: So it has to do with that connection with the earth,
Speaker 1: that deeper connection which connects us with everything. Because we
Speaker 1: go down deep enough, everything is connected. Because we all
Speaker 1: rise from the same Earth, and we're all children of
Speaker 1: the same mother, Mother Earth. Everybody knows about Mother Earth,
Speaker 1: Mother Nature. She's the most universal archetype in existence. You know,
Speaker 1: there's not a culture or people anywhere who don't recognize.
Speaker 1: But there are so many people, especially in power, that
Speaker 1: do not want to protect Mother Earth and just the
Speaker 1: Earth and global warming, our climate change. It's kind of
Speaker 1: almost like a subject that's uh for opinion versus. In
Speaker 1: my mind, it would only make sense to all come
Speaker 1: together to protect the very place we're living on. And
Speaker 1: it's a very symbiotic relationship we have. And without the
Speaker 1: Earth we are fucked. And somehow that's lost on a
Speaker 1: lot of people, and it's really confusing to me. The
Speaker 1: thing is this sense of separation. Again. People think they
Speaker 1: can be separate and and we aren't. We are all um.
Speaker 1: We are cells in the greater body of the living
Speaker 1: biosphere of Earth. Our DNA is shared with all of
Speaker 1: life on Earth. For the last half a billion years,
Speaker 1: since the Cambrian Explosion, the life on Earth has emerged
Speaker 1: as one single, vast entity, comprising countless species and ecosystems.
Speaker 1: But these are like the organs and cells in our
Speaker 1: own body. Just as we start off life as a
Speaker 1: single fertilized cell, and every cell in our body carries
Speaker 1: that very same d in a and protoplasm, the very
Speaker 1: same thing is true for the entire planetary biosphere. All
Speaker 1: life began with that single origin point half a billion
Speaker 1: years ago when um, well, I think it was a
Speaker 1: moment of fertilization. I'm I'm of the opinion that life
Speaker 1: has come here from space. I am too, I am too.
Speaker 1: Point isn't I wanted to ask you about that because
Speaker 1: I have a very strong intuition feeling that the extraterrestrial
Speaker 1: life that we've connected with and it's all been very secretive,
Speaker 1: is about too. That information is about to be given
Speaker 1: to us and openly, like it will become part of
Speaker 1: a conversation and won't be looked at his quote unquote
Speaker 1: crazy or like you're a whack of like. I just
Speaker 1: have this feeling that it's going to start becoming a
Speaker 1: part of our culture to talk about it more, much
Speaker 1: like a race in the past year has just become
Speaker 1: taboo to all of a sudden, that's on the table
Speaker 1: to talk about. I feel like extraterrestrial life is about too.
Speaker 1: I just have this feeling that very soon it's going
Speaker 1: to be it's going to go from being this weird, taboo,
Speaker 1: very cookie thing to talk about all of a sudden
Speaker 1: be something that is on the table and we're all
Speaker 1: going to address as the Earth together. Well, I think so,
Speaker 1: and I think that we will find the great cosmic
Speaker 1: secret when we start actually um looking at extraterrestrial life,
Speaker 1: even even whatever we may find on Mars or on
Speaker 1: the other planets of our own solce of our own
Speaker 1: space exploration, purely apart from what may be hiding an
Speaker 1: area fifty one in any case, I think that the
Speaker 1: real secret is going to be that we all share
Speaker 1: the same DNA, and that is that we are part
Speaker 1: of a vaster thing. That the Earth is seated and
Speaker 1: grown just like we seed, you know, plants, or that
Speaker 1: we send out offspring, and that that the ultimately of
Speaker 1: all life forms, every life form anywhere, the fundamental goal
Speaker 1: is to reproduce itself and developing spaceflight and extraterrestrial contacts
Speaker 1: and terraforming of other worlds. That's how a planet reproduces itself.
Speaker 1: Convinced that that's how life came to the Earth. It's
Speaker 1: making another world habitable by by terrans Earth people. You
Speaker 1: know that they planting and seating and nurturing and gardening,
Speaker 1: you know, to shape a new environment that would be
Speaker 1: hospitable to life. That's what terraforming is, and that will
Speaker 1: be our goal. As we go out there to places
Speaker 1: like Mars and other worlds, we will be trying to
Speaker 1: make them habitable. So the end goal is to just
Speaker 1: keep going. But is there a point to life? Do
Speaker 1: you think there's a ending of conscience business? Do you
Speaker 1: think there is a evolution where then you just are
Speaker 1: done being what you would call conscious or do you
Speaker 1: think that is infinite? It's infinite. I think that in fact,
Speaker 1: consciousness is the fundamental foundation of the cosmos itself. When
Speaker 1: we get down to the in the field of quantum physics,
Speaker 1: which is a big conversation going on these days in
Speaker 1: the magical community. Everybody you cut you talked to anywhere.
Speaker 1: If you bring on any other you know, wizards onto
Speaker 1: this show, well I'll talk to you about quantum physics.
Speaker 1: You're the only wizard I know. You're my favorite wizard.
Speaker 1: Thank you. That's pretty easy. But it's turning out as
Speaker 1: we're articulating the laws of quantum physics, as we're discovering
Speaker 1: they are turning out to be exactly the same as
Speaker 1: the laws of magic that have been preserved in grim
Speaker 1: noires for thousands of years and passed on down so um.
Speaker 1: The point of that is that if we go deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper, we get down past the cellular level, down
Speaker 1: to the molecular, down to the atomic, down to the
Speaker 1: sub atomic level, down to the particle level, all the
Speaker 1: way down to the bottom. There is no there there.
Speaker 1: There is nothing solid, There is no things, you know,
Speaker 1: even even subatomic particles are not objects. There there spins.
Speaker 1: It's like you're looking at an ocean and you'll see
Speaker 1: waves and eddies and little whirlpools, but you can't dip
Speaker 1: them out in a bucket and take them home with you,
Speaker 1: you know, because they're not actually things. And this is
Speaker 1: the way we get down to the very basis. And
Speaker 1: what we get is what's called the quantum field that
Speaker 1: is at the foundation of everything, and it is not
Speaker 1: a thing. It's like an ocean of which everything else
Speaker 1: are just waves and eddies and currents in it and vortices,
Speaker 1: you know, and spin and all that stuff, but no things.
Speaker 1: And that is consciousness. The what is emerging out the
Speaker 1: fringes of the most forward thinking qualit physics is that
Speaker 1: that the cosmos, the universe is consciousness itself at the
Speaker 1: fundamental level, which means that everything that we experience as
Speaker 1: a reality is a simulation. It's it's a They called
Speaker 1: us the simulation hypothesis. We're living in the matrix. Essentially.
Speaker 1: I have never seen the Matrix. I've also never seen
Speaker 1: Harry Potter. I'm so screwed. But I was going to
Speaker 1: watch it last night, but I was like, that's silly,
Speaker 1: And now I fully am going to do my homework
Speaker 1: and watch both of those things. But I had to
Speaker 1: tell on myself that I haven't seen the Matrix or
Speaker 1: Harry Potter. But I know what you mean in terms
Speaker 1: of civilization because I heard you speak on another podcast
Speaker 1: and you were talking about, um, this avatar idea, which
Speaker 1: I would love for you to explain to the listeners
Speaker 1: because I found it really interesting and I really connected
Speaker 1: with it. The best metaphor for consciousness that we've always
Speaker 1: used as water. So we we talked about the river
Speaker 1: of life and the will of souls, and we talked
Speaker 1: about that existence is like you know, rain drops as
Speaker 1: individuals and eventually we flow down. But the thing about
Speaker 1: water is it's a universal stuff and we can pour it,
Speaker 1: you know, from one vessel into another, and it will
Speaker 1: take the shape of the vessel, but it doesn't have
Speaker 1: any shape or form of its own, and it's all
Speaker 1: the same stuff throughout the universe. In fact, it's the
Speaker 1: most common and oldest um compound in the universe. It's
Speaker 1: it's everywhere. We used to think that Earth was unique
Speaker 1: because we got all this water, but now we're finding
Speaker 1: it everywhere. Everywhere we look, there's water. It's the most
Speaker 1: common substance in the Solar System and the galaxy and everywhere.
Speaker 1: Most of it's frozen, which is why we weren't really
Speaker 1: noticing that it's there. You know, there's you know, frozen
Speaker 1: enough water frozen beneath the craters of the Moon to
Speaker 1: fill the Great Lakes, oceans of Mars, frozen beneath the sands,
Speaker 1: and the rings of Saturn are all icebergs, that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. So as it is with consciousness and we
Speaker 1: as these physical vessels, were just like a vessel that
Speaker 1: contains water in which the consciousness is poured into us.
Speaker 1: We are avatars, just like we have in our gaming thing.
Speaker 1: We we animate these avatars, we create them, then we
Speaker 1: enter our consciousness into them and we act through them. Well,
Speaker 1: right now, our gaming things are pretty crude. I mean,
Speaker 1: we sit back, we have a distance, we have a
Speaker 1: keyboard in front of us. But now we're getting to
Speaker 1: where we can put on a virtual reality goggles and
Speaker 1: actually enter into that world and look out through the
Speaker 1: eyes of the avatar and be within the avatar. Will
Speaker 1: that's just another level. Now, this is where we are
Speaker 1: right now. I think how far we've come in the
Speaker 1: last ten years with this, for the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: Imagine where this kind of thing will be a hundred
Speaker 1: years will our gaming worlds look like then we will
Speaker 1: be completely immersed in them, like in the movie The Avatar,
Speaker 1: the Sorry, the the Matrix, or any other places. Now
Speaker 1: imagine a thousand years from now. See, our present existence
Speaker 1: is a tiny little sliver in time, just a tiny
Speaker 1: little sliver. It was two years ago. It was the presence, right,
Speaker 1: But we have to we stand on the back on
Speaker 1: the top of a huge, huge pinnacle of evolution and time.
Speaker 1: Dragons ruled the earth for a hundred and fifty million years,
Speaker 1: and all of humanity has only been here for two
Speaker 1: or three hundred thousand years. You know, we've only had
Speaker 1: m agriculture for ten thousand years. Because this is what
Speaker 1: we do as conscious beings. We can't stand boredom. We
Speaker 1: have to play we have to do something. We create,
Speaker 1: we invent. This is what gods do you know? And
Speaker 1: and we are all God in that sense if if
Speaker 1: we look at God as cosmic universal consciousness. But I
Speaker 1: was talking about there with the quantum field, well, we're
Speaker 1: all a part of that, not just a separate part.
Speaker 1: We're all We're all one, and we're all interconnected with it.
Speaker 1: We're connected with the spirit that flows through us that
Speaker 1: we share with all other life in the universe. We're
Speaker 1: connected with the water that flows through our body. We're
Speaker 1: connected with it, with the protoplasm and ourselves and the
Speaker 1: d n A. The connections are so deep and so profound.
Speaker 1: There is no separation, and death is not a separation.
Speaker 1: Death is like in a game when you come to
Speaker 1: the end of the game and you may have a
Speaker 1: spectacular death in the game, and then you you res
Speaker 1: out and you step back and you're away from the
Speaker 1: game and you look down you said, well, that was
Speaker 1: that was interesting to I want to play another game
Speaker 1: or maybe something different. What else have I got here
Speaker 1: to play? Do you think there's the other? Do you
Speaker 1: think when you're because I love the idea of water,
Speaker 1: like I think I'm thinking of my body as the
Speaker 1: outside part, and then you just pour my consciousness in
Speaker 1: and that's me. So then when I when it's my
Speaker 1: time to pass away, you it did another word for
Speaker 1: passing on. I was reading, I forget what it is corporating,
Speaker 1: discorporating corporation, which I've never heard of that word before. Um,
Speaker 1: when you discorporate is just your consciousness being removed from
Speaker 1: the shell, almost like a cicada when they shed that shell.
Speaker 1: So where in your wizardry wizardry would you say that
Speaker 1: that consciousness then goes the fact that every culture, every people,
Speaker 1: and every religion has an idea of somewhere to go
Speaker 1: after this one, that our consciousness does not end a death.
Speaker 1: Everybody has an idea that it goes on, but they
Speaker 1: have different ideas of where it goes. And some of
Speaker 1: these I think are derived from our experience and dreams,
Speaker 1: because we go into another world where we are conscious
Speaker 1: and we experienced stuff all around us. And I think
Speaker 1: all of the afterlives of different cultures, whatever they may be,
Speaker 1: you know, have in hell, the blessed aisles, the you know, Valhalla,
Speaker 1: wherever it may be. Everybody's got something out there is
Speaker 1: that it's a it's also a creation in a sense.
Speaker 1: It's a virtual reality, like a dream that we then
Speaker 1: passed back into. And maybe there's another one behind that
Speaker 1: and another one behind that. You know, we don't know
Speaker 1: where we are, how many layers down are we It's
Speaker 1: like one of those Russian nesting dolls, you know, they
Speaker 1: keep having layer after layer after layer. But it's the
Speaker 1: important thing is it doesn't end. Well. That sounds exhausting.
Speaker 1: Though to me, dying and getting to go, even just
Speaker 1: to have like a little time off sounds more relaxing
Speaker 1: than just never getting time off sounds a little exhausting.
Speaker 1: I think we can get time off. I mean some
Speaker 1: of the concepts are basically about that. A place to
Speaker 1: have a little time off, a resting place, a paradise
Speaker 1: of vaccasion spot. And you know, many of us come
Speaker 1: back for another round, you know, we reincarnate, you know.
Speaker 1: But I don't think everybody does that, and I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a requirement, but it certainly appears to be
Speaker 1: an option because we have lots of good documentation of that,
Speaker 1: and some cultures have it a one way trip, you know. Well,
Speaker 1: the University of Virginia has done long studies on children
Speaker 1: who vividly remember their previous lives, usually their deaths, usually
Speaker 1: children who have nightmares. If you get them to talk
Speaker 1: about it and draw pictures, what you will get is
Speaker 1: an account of their death in their last life because
Speaker 1: it was the last thing they remembered before they went out,
Speaker 1: but it but it left him with such a PTSD
Speaker 1: that they come back again carrying it still so um
Speaker 1: And this has been documented where they've they've gone back
Speaker 1: and done the research the history to find out who
Speaker 1: is this other person? Because some of these kids have
Speaker 1: come with such detailed descriptions, they've had names and places
Speaker 1: and locations, and they've been able to track down the
Speaker 1: previous person who had died. It's actually confirms the story.
Speaker 1: University of Virginia look it up. I will, I will
Speaker 1: look it up. It's so interesting because I've always not always,
Speaker 1: but I have believed in reincarnation. And I love when
Speaker 1: there's some sort of place I can go to that
Speaker 1: seems like a reputable source and read about it. I
Speaker 1: don't know why I need that confirmation, that external confirmation,
Speaker 1: but it does make me feel more at ease. I
Speaker 1: have done a past life aggression myself and for me,
Speaker 1: I believed I was burned because I felt so so
Speaker 1: so hot, and still in this incarnation, I'm always hot, always,
Speaker 1: like to the point where other people it's intolerable for
Speaker 1: some of the people in the room. Everyone in the room.
Speaker 1: I like being freezing cold, and I love being I
Speaker 1: also love being wet. I love being in the ocean.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is, but I truly feel
Speaker 1: like I'm not sure if you have any insight into this,
Speaker 1: but I feel like I should have been a mermaid,
Speaker 1: or I should have been a fish or a whale,
Speaker 1: or just I feel like, potentially I could have been
Speaker 1: an animal. I don't know if animals can come back
Speaker 1: as people or people can come back as animals, but
Speaker 1: I dream about whales every night, just like hundreds and
Speaker 1: hundreds of whales. You know. This gets into something that
Speaker 1: I've I've speculated a lot about if we die and
Speaker 1: our spirit sold then rejoins the the ocean, you know,
Speaker 1: like like the water being poured back, you know, and
Speaker 1: going on down the river to the ocean again, from
Speaker 1: which another cup will be drawn at some future time
Speaker 1: where we're not the only consciousness. Obviously, whales have a
Speaker 1: huge consciousness, much bigger than ours. And so sometimes when
Speaker 1: that new cup is dipped into the well of souls
Speaker 1: and come out, it may not be exactly what was
Speaker 1: in it before. You know, it may not be entirely human,
Speaker 1: and may be part of some animals as well. And
Speaker 1: in the case of a whale, of whale spirit dies,
Speaker 1: I don't think it even all fitted into one human body.
Speaker 1: It would probably require, you know, divving end up a bit.
Speaker 1: But um, I think that that's the way it works,
Speaker 1: is that we're all just like the d n a
Speaker 1: that we have is shared with all of their life.
Speaker 1: I think so is the spirit, and the spirit as
Speaker 1: is literally the water, the water that we drink and
Speaker 1: absorbed through it's been it's been here before, it's passed
Speaker 1: through the bodies of every living being for about millions
Speaker 1: of years. It's been drunk and piste out by dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: You know. I really strongly believe that when new beings
Speaker 1: of the same kind are being produced, then there's lots
Speaker 1: of room for new spirits to come in. But what
Speaker 1: happens when huge numbers have been exterminated, like what we've
Speaker 1: done to the whales, where we once the oceans had
Speaker 1: billions of whales and then they were virtually exterminated for
Speaker 1: several centuries of whaling. Where did all those spirits go?
Speaker 1: You know, they had to go into new places in
Speaker 1: humanity would be the place. There's a legend among Native
Speaker 1: Americans called the story of the rain Old Warriors. And
Speaker 1: the legend is that the spirits of all the Indians
Speaker 1: who died during the European invasions eventually had to come
Speaker 1: back somewhere and they reincarnated in the new generations of
Speaker 1: the children of the invaders because they had to come
Speaker 1: back somewhere. And the story came out first around seventy
Speaker 1: or so when it was put out is the Hopie prophecy,
Speaker 1: and and it was said that the generation had appeared
Speaker 1: as that because part of the legend was that they
Speaker 1: would have a name similar to Hopies, because it was
Speaker 1: a Hopie story, because that means the peaceful ones, and
Speaker 1: they would be the children of peace. So they said that, well,
Speaker 1: the hippies fit the prophecy, and they would wear the
Speaker 1: feathers and beads and and and take up these ways
Speaker 1: and return to the to the traditional ancient ancient ways.
Speaker 1: You've got that kind of stuff going on. It's it's
Speaker 1: all goes around and around my hippie. Sure, come on, okay,
Speaker 1: just making sure. I just want to make sure you
Speaker 1: generously you put it in presence. It's not azz i,
Speaker 1: it's it's still a thing. Yeah you are. It seems
Speaker 1: like a thing that was in the seventies, but I
Speaker 1: guess it is still something you are. My mom is
Speaker 1: a hippie as well. I guess I'm kind of a hippie. Also.
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for your time. And I know this
Speaker 1: has been a weird, a weird turn of events, but
Speaker 1: I just want to tell you I'm so appreciative of
Speaker 1: your time and I would love to continue this conversation
Speaker 1: sometimes because it's just been so interesting. Um. And before
Speaker 1: I let you go, would you just tell us, for
Speaker 1: anybody who's listening, if they would like to attend your school,
Speaker 1: how they would go about doing that. Absolutely, we would
Speaker 1: love to Harry. This school is made for you. If
Speaker 1: you're listening to the show and you're digging this stuff,
Speaker 1: the Gray School is what you're looking for. And it's Um.
Speaker 1: We got about three students all around the world and
Speaker 1: a couple of dozen teachers in over five hundred classes
Speaker 1: in sixteen departments at seven levels of apprenticeship and then
Speaker 1: moving on from there. It's a unique and amazing place,
Speaker 1: and you can find it by just going to grad
Speaker 1: school dot com g R E Y S h o
Speaker 1: o l dot com and check it out. You can
Speaker 1: look over a lot of stuff without actually having to enroll.
Speaker 1: But if you do enroll, I think that you will
Speaker 1: find it incredibly rewarding and I hope to see you there.
Speaker 1: I still stick around enough to teach a few classes,
Speaker 1: but I'm mostly off doing other things these days. But
Speaker 1: we have an amazing faculty and incredible students of all ages.
Speaker 1: We we have youth students, but most of our students
Speaker 1: are adults, so don't feel that it's a thing for kids.
Speaker 1: It's it's only that that we have openings in space
Speaker 1: for kids as well, but mostly it's adult stuff. And
Speaker 1: hope to see you there. Thank you so much. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being patient and talking with me
Speaker 1: extra long. I appreciate it. Keep on creeping on.