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Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey, Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new

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Speaker 1: season of Lost Hills ad free, along with other great

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Speaker 1: binge listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin

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Speaker 1: Plus on the Lost Hills Show page in Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot fm slash plus.

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Speaker 2: He used to call me when I'm back in California.

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Speaker 2: Half the conversations, some guys were wondering about who was

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Speaker 2: out trying to get him with the FPI looking for him.

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Speaker 2: Don't talk to so and so, don't tell so and

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Speaker 2: so where I am.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Naughton and Craig Peterson, the Surfer magazine photojournalists, kept

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Speaker 1: in touch with Mickey after they left France in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, or he kept in touch with them. He'd

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Speaker 1: always call from a certain phone booth.

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Speaker 3: The phone booth was in in a was it bi

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Speaker 3: own on.

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Speaker 2: Board main Telecommunications and Biota.

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Speaker 3: Right outside the main telecommunications building in byone, and it's

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Speaker 3: a classic phone booth. And you would go in there

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Speaker 3: and put in your frank pieces of coin and in

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Speaker 3: there and try to dial internationally to different places.

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Speaker 2: Remember Craig. There was a couple of dozen phone booths outside.

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Speaker 1: The building, but Mickey's phone booth didn't work like other telephones.

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Speaker 1: There was a trick to.

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Speaker 3: It, but Mickey showed us the one that if you

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Speaker 3: did it a certain putting your coins a certain way,

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Speaker 3: and as the coin was dropping down, you hit it

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Speaker 3: like on the side of the machine twice and once

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Speaker 3: at the bottom or something, then it would be unlimited

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Speaker 3: time on the phone.

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Speaker 1: That phone booth by the main telecommunications building in Bayone

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Speaker 1: was the way Mickey kept in touch with his network

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Speaker 1: around the world.

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Speaker 2: He would only go late at night when there was

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Speaker 2: no one else around, and he liked to do it

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Speaker 2: in the secret like that, you know, and be the

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Speaker 2: guy making these calls, probably because of some time zone

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Speaker 2: changes too.

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Speaker 1: What he didn't realize was that he was being watched.

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Speaker 2: He kept going there regularly at night and that after

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Speaker 2: a while it aroused his suspicion of the French authorities.

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Speaker 2: There were bass Separatists very active around the French Spanish

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Speaker 2: border at that time.

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Speaker 1: The Basque Separatists, a militant leftist group seeking independence from Spain,

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Speaker 1: had carried out a number of high profile robberies kidnappings

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Speaker 1: and terror attacks in the region, so the.

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Speaker 2: Authorities thought, you know, if they're going to blow up something,

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Speaker 2: it might be the telecommunications buildings, so let's keep an

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Speaker 2: eye on it. Of course, Then after a while they

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Speaker 2: noticed this guy end of showing up in his van

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Speaker 2: the Florida going to this back to the well, what's

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Speaker 2: he doing at this same phone making all these calls?

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Speaker 2: You know. This went on for weeks and then months

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Speaker 2: and going to gone and on, and they swooped in.

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Speaker 2: One night he showed up, was making a call somewhere,

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Speaker 2: and they busted him. And that was when all his

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Speaker 2: past deeds caught up with him very quickly. Everything happened

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Speaker 2: at once. They ran an international check on him, and

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Speaker 2: it all came collapsed down his world, all because of

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Speaker 2: this one little phone in France that he showed us

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Speaker 2: that he just didn't know enough to stop using it,

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Speaker 2: and he kept going back to it. And that's the

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Speaker 2: single frank that led to his downfall.

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Speaker 1: Mickey was busted in May of nineteen eighty one. He'd

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Speaker 1: been a fugitive for nearly seven years now. He was

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Speaker 1: headed for a moldy French jail cell and he was

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Speaker 1: one step closer to seeing his long lost California coast,

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Speaker 1: courtesy of the FBI, which couldn't wait to bring him home.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dana go Year and this is Lost Hills episode ten,

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Speaker 1: Aging Boy of Summer.

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Speaker 4: Okay, here's a here's a box full of eight hundred

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Speaker 4: pages of the FBI file. Enter at your OSK.

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Speaker 1: This is David Renson again, the journalist who wrote the

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Speaker 1: definitive oral history of Mickey Dora's life.

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Speaker 4: I moved to California in nineteen sixty four with my family.

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Speaker 4: Before I left, some young classmate said you'll be able

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Speaker 4: to go surfing. I said, what's that? And so I

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Speaker 4: got aboard and went with my friends, and I started

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Speaker 4: reading the genre magazines in sixty four and sixty five,

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Speaker 4: Surf Guide, Surfer, International Surfing. So that's how I discovered Mickey.

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Speaker 1: He's been fascinated by Mickey Dora ever since he moved

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Speaker 1: to southern California from New Jersey.

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Speaker 4: I found out that, you know, from reading these magazines,

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Speaker 4: he disappeared in nineteen seventy four, and so all of

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Speaker 4: us wondered would happened. The rumors were always a lawyer

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Speaker 4: in Century City. You know, he's living with the third

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Speaker 4: Reich escapees in Argentina. He's doing this, He's doing that.

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Speaker 4: Nobody knew.

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Speaker 1: From most of the nineteen seventies. There were only rumors,

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Speaker 1: all of them added to the Mickey Dora mythology.

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Speaker 4: And then in nineteen eighty two, I saw a clip

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Speaker 4: that said famous surfer health in Denver for credit card

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Speaker 4: fraud Mickey Dora.

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Speaker 1: Not only was Mickey Dora not a lawyer in Century City,

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Speaker 1: he was about to be an inmate in federal prison.

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Speaker 1: David was working for California Magazine at the time. He

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Speaker 1: pitched his editor a profile of Mickey Mickey the felon,

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Speaker 1: and he submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to

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Speaker 1: the FBI.

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Speaker 4: Water Coffee, he will say.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting at David's dining room table, looking out a

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Speaker 1: big window at the ocean. On a chair, there's a

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Speaker 1: box containing all the documentation of the criminal investigations into

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Speaker 1: Mickey Dora. The FBI's file on Mickey Dora is eight

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy six pages long. That's a little longer

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Speaker 1: than the FBI's file on the Zodiac Killer, and not

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Speaker 1: much shorter than its file on and Clyde. But the

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Speaker 1: contents of Mickey's file are a whole lot of nothing,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred and seventy six pages of tracking and minutely

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Speaker 1: documenting the worldwide travels of a surfer who had number

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Speaker 1: one stolen some ski equipment and antiques and violated his probation.

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Speaker 1: Number two allegedly filed false information on a passport application

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Speaker 1: for a passport that was never issued, and number three

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Speaker 1: defrauded the Diners Club while on said worldwide travels. David

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Speaker 1: walks me through the first case, the ski equipment stolen

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Speaker 1: from a shop in Mammoth in Mono County.

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Speaker 4: Charges abroad. I believe he missed a few court dates,

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Speaker 4: got there, finally pled guilty. You know, Judge Harry Roberts

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Speaker 4: set up the repayment schedule, plus came on need credit

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Speaker 4: cards and need permission to leave California.

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Speaker 1: But instead of sticking around and doing what he was told.

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Speaker 4: He applies for a passport in the name of a

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Speaker 4: dead guy.

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Speaker 1: So then he's on the run.

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Speaker 4: So then he's on the run.

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Speaker 1: That's the second case, the passport application in the name

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Speaker 1: of Richard Austin Roach Junior. And that's what caught the

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Speaker 1: attention of the FBI, and once they started looking at Mickey.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't take their eyes off him. They interviewed people

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Speaker 1: up and down the coast of California, staked out Mickey's

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Speaker 1: father's house, intercepted mail agents, spent years interviewing his friend's family, x'es,

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Speaker 1: and his quote blood enemies. In particular, they focused on surfers.

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Speaker 1: Interviewing sources in Malibu and other beach cities, they got

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Speaker 1: an earful about quote, the surfing god. They call him

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Speaker 1: the cat. One informant told the FBI because quote, no

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Speaker 1: one knows when he's coming or going.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is all this stuff is just this route

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Speaker 4: up the Where's Mickey? What's going on with Mickey? Where's Mickey?

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Speaker 4: Some people know knew, but the interview is family and friends.

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Speaker 4: Please let us know if you hear from him. It's

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Speaker 4: illegal to harbor a criminal. People would either say I

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Speaker 4: wouldn't tell you if I did know, or you know,

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Speaker 4: just put out a bag of jewels in the center

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Speaker 4: of the square and the Mickey door, A snake will

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Speaker 4: slither out and grab it.

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Speaker 1: One FBI informant offered to provide information on Mickey, quote

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Speaker 1: for the right price. Another went on at length about

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Speaker 1: illegal operations Mickey was supposedly the mastermind of jewelry heists

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Speaker 1: in Central and South America, smuggling counterfeit US currency from

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Speaker 1: Singapore to New Zealand and Australia. According to another FBI source,

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Speaker 1: Mickey had been smuggling drugs into New Zealand using quote

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Speaker 1: hollowed out surfboards. The more the FBI asked around about Mickey,

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Speaker 1: the more interested they got. Agents had been keeping close

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Speaker 1: tabs on Linda Kai when she was traveling with Mickey.

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Speaker 1: When she left Mickey and came back to California, they

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Speaker 1: swooped and.

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Speaker 5: I was sick. I'd just come back from somewhere I

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Speaker 5: can't remember where now, some long trip.

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Speaker 1: She was recuperating at her parents' house.

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Speaker 5: I was in the front room and the dog was

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Speaker 5: barking like nuts. There was some guy ran around through

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Speaker 5: the back gate to be sure nobody was back there

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Speaker 5: with a gun drawn. And a guy comes to the front,

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Speaker 5: you know, plain clothes, and he goes, where's Mickey door here?

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Speaker 5: And I said, no, he doesn't live here, why would

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Speaker 5: he be here. Well, you're Linda right and Nicai and

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Speaker 5: I said yes, And he said, well, we almost caught

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Speaker 5: you in Kenya. And I was like, well, I don't

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Speaker 5: know anything about any of that.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 5: He says, yeah, we caught, we were close.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay. I was like, what else?

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Speaker 5: I said, I'm not feeling real good, you know, I'm sick.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: He goes, where's Mickey? And I said, I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I said, I haven't seen him at all. And it

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Speaker 5: was just a real like a quick kind of scarer

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Speaker 5: and you know, I said, you don't need to have guns,

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Speaker 5: you know, come on, this is scary.

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Speaker 1: And did you call Mickey right away?

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Speaker 5: There's no where to call.

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Speaker 1: Where was he? I have no idea, so you really

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Speaker 1: didn't know where he was.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 1: The FBI also visited Jim Kempton. He's now the president

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Speaker 1: of the California Surf Museum, but back then he was

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Speaker 1: editing Surfer magazine.

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Speaker 6: I got a visit from the FBI.

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Speaker 1: First, the agent showed up at his parents' house.

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Speaker 6: And of course, my parents, being you know, the greatest

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Speaker 6: generation forties people, immediately told him right where I was.

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Speaker 6: You're right, not like, oh you don't know, you know, like, oh, no,

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Speaker 6: my son lives right down here. You'll be able to

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Speaker 6: find him right away. No, assuming that, like I was

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Speaker 6: a total good guy, you know, which probably wasn't the

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Speaker 6: greatest assumption to make. But so they came and they

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Speaker 6: asked me all about Mickey and what I knew, and

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Speaker 6: I went out of my way to give them as

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Speaker 6: little information as I possibly could without lying to them,

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Speaker 6: because I knew that lying with the FBI was a crime,

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Speaker 6: so I wasn't going to tell him anything untrue, but

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Speaker 6: I was I was going to I don't recall as

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Speaker 6: many times as I could, or I don't know as

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Speaker 6: many times as I could without being obvious, but Mickey

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Speaker 6: heard about it.

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Speaker 1: For a guy hiding out in a van in the

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Speaker 1: south of France, Mickey was pretty connected.

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Speaker 6: So a few weeks later at Surfer magazine, this box

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Speaker 6: arrives that I open. It's from Mickey, dressed on the

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Speaker 6: outside so i'd be sure to open it right. And

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Speaker 6: it's a dried turn with a relatively threatening note in it.

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Speaker 6: And all it did was really make me angry, because

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Speaker 6: it made me angry that he would think that I

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Speaker 6: would do that, and the fact that I had gone

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Speaker 6: out of my way not to do that and wasn't

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Speaker 6: being credited by him for having protected his position was

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Speaker 6: very aggravating.

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Speaker 1: To me, the FBI seemed to really want Mickey, but why.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was really interesting how vociferously the FBI

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Speaker 4: pursued the Richard Austin roach thing. It seemed like, so

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Speaker 4: what I mean, it's a crime and making a false statement.

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Speaker 4: They would chase him all over the world and send

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Speaker 4: all those telicxis back and forth, And that FBI file

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Speaker 4: is heavy, heavy, heavy with that stuff.

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Speaker 1: The alleged crime they wanted him for making a false

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Speaker 1: statement in a passport application for a passport that was

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Speaker 1: never issued, would have meant at the most five years

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Speaker 1: in prison or a fine of a couple thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: It just doesn't seem to justify all this effort. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Mickey was denying he'd done anything wrong, So what was

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Speaker 1: really going on. The third case against Mickey had to

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Speaker 1: do with all those doctored credit cards Linda says they

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Speaker 1: were using in their travels. The Diners Club was alleging

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Speaker 1: large scale fraud, and Mickey, in absentia, had been indicted

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Speaker 1: in federal court. By the late seventies, Mickey's father was

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Speaker 1: speaking regularly to the FBI. He would sometimes confront Mickey

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Speaker 1: with the allegations against him. Mickey insisted he was innocent.

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Speaker 1: Mickey said he was being framed. Dear father, Mickey wrote

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Speaker 1: to Miklosch, there is this creature by the name of

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Speaker 1: Don Wilson, the poor man's dillinger of our times. This

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Speaker 1: person is an escaped convict, a record of forgery, credit

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Speaker 1: card theft, and many other offenses. I'm quite sure he's

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Speaker 1: been dashing around the US and elsewhere using my checks

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Speaker 1: and credit cards and identifications. Don Wilson the pirate captain,

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Speaker 1: Linda's old con artist boyfriend who'd shown up at their

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Speaker 1: doorstep in New Zealand. Mickey said Don was impersonating him,

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Speaker 1: committing crimes in his name. According to a memo in

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Speaker 1: Mickey's FBI file, Mieklos spoke to Mickey about the passport fraud,

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Speaker 1: saying he'd seen the photo submitted with the passport application

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Speaker 1: for Richard Austin Roch Junior, and he recognized Mickey. Mieklos

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Speaker 1: told the agents that Mickey had said someone else must

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Speaker 1: have done the fraud and was trying to put the

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Speaker 1: blame on him. The memo goes on to state that

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Speaker 1: Mickey claimed that back when he was living in Brentwood,

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Speaker 1: an old friend from the Pacific Palisades. I e. Don

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Speaker 1: Wilson had somehow gotten into his house and stolen his

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Speaker 1: credit cards and some other documents. Don Wilson, Mickey said,

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00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:07,796
Speaker 1: was likely the person behind the passport fraud, and Don

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Speaker 1: Wilson was probably the one using doctored credit cards with

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Speaker 1: Mickey's name on them. Don had been pulling scams in

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00:17:15,996 --> 00:17:23,396
Speaker 1: Mickey's name, Mickey was the victim. It's intriguing, mostly because

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00:17:23,436 --> 00:17:26,676
Speaker 1: Mickey and Don seemed to sabotage each other whenever possible.

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Speaker 1: But I struggle to believe that Don Wilson's mischief explains

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Speaker 1: Mickey's legal trouble. Mickey's storage unit in New Zealand, for example,

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Speaker 1: it was filled with one hundred thousand dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: antiques and other valuables, twenty four used fake airline tickets,

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Speaker 1: and sixty credit cards, many of them altered or defaced,

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Speaker 1: that had been taken out in Dora's name. I don't

270
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Speaker 1: think even the pirate captain could have managed to get

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Speaker 1: inside Mickey's storage unit and plant that incriminating evidence. But

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Speaker 1: there is something that doesn't make sense about the case

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Speaker 1: against Mickey. Why is his file so fat? Why did

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00:18:13,716 --> 00:18:18,436
Speaker 1: agents trace his movements around the world on such flimsy

275
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Speaker 1: and insignificant charges. Some people say the reason Mickey was

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00:18:24,876 --> 00:18:29,236
Speaker 1: so on their radar was because he was working for them.

277
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Speaker 1: That he wasn't a target of the FBI. He was

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Speaker 1: an asset. The file, all the dirt they gathered on him,

279
00:18:39,196 --> 00:18:44,236
Speaker 1: the gossip and the rumors that was collateral. They let

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Speaker 1: him run so far and for so long, not because

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00:18:48,756 --> 00:18:52,316
Speaker 1: they were inept and couldn't nab him, but because he

282
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Speaker 1: was gathering useful information for them in India, Africa, Indonesia,

283
00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:01,436
Speaker 1: everywhere he went on his search for the perfect wave.

284
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Speaker 1: This theory turns the whole Mickey story inside out.

285
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Speaker 4: David Ran, You've got all that stuff about people saying

286
00:19:12,396 --> 00:19:16,636
Speaker 4: he wasn't really working for the FBI. You've heard of that.

287
00:19:17,956 --> 00:19:20,156
Speaker 4: I don't know what to make of that, because I

288
00:19:20,236 --> 00:19:25,596
Speaker 4: believe the idea was noticed how he ends up in

289
00:19:25,636 --> 00:19:28,636
Speaker 4: these hotspots coincidentally.

290
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Speaker 1: I'm tempted to think that this is pure myth making.

291
00:19:33,396 --> 00:19:38,236
Speaker 1: Mickey's fanboys trying to glamorize his exploits give a James

292
00:19:38,236 --> 00:19:45,036
Speaker 1: Bond varnish to Mickey's chintzy three card monty approach to life,

293
00:19:45,236 --> 00:19:48,556
Speaker 1: but David says there's some reason to give credence to

294
00:19:48,596 --> 00:19:51,876
Speaker 1: the idea that Mickey had a special status with the FBI.

295
00:19:53,236 --> 00:19:57,196
Speaker 1: He says, while Mickey was still a fugitive, he'd somehow

296
00:19:57,236 --> 00:20:00,036
Speaker 1: gotten access to his own FBI file.

297
00:20:02,196 --> 00:20:05,476
Speaker 4: My friend Jerry said he was in Beeritz one day

298
00:20:06,076 --> 00:20:11,836
Speaker 4: when before the the repatriation to America, and Mickey had

299
00:20:11,836 --> 00:20:15,676
Speaker 4: his FBI file and said to Jerry, here, look at

300
00:20:15,716 --> 00:20:18,116
Speaker 4: here it is. And Jerry said, I don't know how

301
00:20:18,156 --> 00:20:20,276
Speaker 4: he got that. And he looked through it and he

302
00:20:20,316 --> 00:20:22,956
Speaker 4: saw sorts of stuff that is obviously I don't know

303
00:20:22,956 --> 00:20:28,156
Speaker 4: how Mickey got it, which leads to the I don't know.

304
00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:30,596
Speaker 4: I think Jerry's telling the truth. And I talked to

305
00:20:30,596 --> 00:20:33,356
Speaker 4: a friend of mine who's an FBI agent, who did

306
00:20:33,356 --> 00:20:37,956
Speaker 4: describe to me that sometimes informants, you know, get some privileges,

307
00:20:38,436 --> 00:20:41,716
Speaker 4: but no guarantees, you know, if they screw up, they

308
00:20:41,756 --> 00:20:49,036
Speaker 4: could just it's just a total guess that it's possible

309
00:20:49,196 --> 00:20:52,396
Speaker 4: Mickey cut a deal, But I don't know.

310
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Speaker 1: Who or what would he have had info on that

311
00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:55,956
Speaker 1: they wanted.

312
00:20:57,356 --> 00:21:02,996
Speaker 4: Stolen passports, smuggling, drug smuggling, a credit card fraud. I

313
00:21:03,076 --> 00:21:06,236
Speaker 4: don't know, but that's the nature of Mickey Dora, you

314
00:21:06,396 --> 00:21:08,876
Speaker 4: never know what's true, or there.

315
00:21:08,796 --> 00:21:10,396
Speaker 1: Could be a little tiny.

316
00:21:10,076 --> 00:21:13,196
Speaker 4: Bit, so you took the words out of my mouth.

317
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Speaker 1: Whatever the truth is about Mickey's relationship with the FBI,

318
00:21:19,236 --> 00:21:22,636
Speaker 1: the longer he stayed in exile, the more he began

319
00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:29,276
Speaker 1: to unravel. The records in Mickey's FBI file painted dark

320
00:21:29,316 --> 00:21:32,436
Speaker 1: picture of his time and gettory. Leading up to his arrest,

321
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Speaker 1: Linda told agents Mickey was quote totally paranoid and emotionally unstable,

322
00:21:39,356 --> 00:21:44,156
Speaker 1: and that she was quote scared to death of him. Mickey,

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00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:46,996
Speaker 1: she said, had hidden her passport and her money to

324
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Speaker 1: try to keep her from leaving. She told the agents

325
00:21:50,596 --> 00:21:55,316
Speaker 1: she was done with him. Back in France in his

326
00:21:55,396 --> 00:22:01,956
Speaker 1: green Mercedes Benz camper van, Mickey was losing it. Quote

327
00:22:02,236 --> 00:22:06,436
Speaker 1: subject recently returned to France from South Africa, believed to

328
00:22:06,476 --> 00:22:10,156
Speaker 1: be using altered expired passport in his own name, and

329
00:22:10,236 --> 00:22:16,916
Speaker 1: believed heavily involved in narcotics. Unquote quote subject becoming paranoid

330
00:22:16,996 --> 00:22:23,396
Speaker 1: and erratic unquote quote. Subject appears to be undergoing nervous breakdown,

331
00:22:23,596 --> 00:22:26,676
Speaker 1: has alienated a number of friends, and believed to be

332
00:22:26,956 --> 00:22:34,676
Speaker 1: financially desperate. Unquote. Mickey was arrested at the rigged phone

333
00:22:34,676 --> 00:22:38,236
Speaker 1: booth in May of nineteen eighty one. His first instinct,

334
00:22:38,596 --> 00:22:42,036
Speaker 1: formed of lifelong habit, was to try to get out

335
00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:42,356
Speaker 1: of it.

336
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Speaker 7: He said, well, you know, I'm just calling some friends

337
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Speaker 7: and I put my fifty so teams in and I

338
00:22:50,716 --> 00:22:53,316
Speaker 7: don't know, it doesn't ask for more money.

339
00:22:53,356 --> 00:22:57,076
Speaker 1: This is Bob Simpson, an American lawyer who knew Mickey

340
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Speaker 1: in France.

341
00:22:58,436 --> 00:23:00,396
Speaker 7: So I just keep talking. I don't know what the

342
00:23:00,396 --> 00:23:01,996
Speaker 7: problem is with this thing, but I use it all

343
00:23:02,036 --> 00:23:04,156
Speaker 7: the time. I thought maybe this was made available for

344
00:23:04,156 --> 00:23:06,676
Speaker 7: foreigners or something, so he made up all sorts of stories.

345
00:23:07,556 --> 00:23:11,196
Speaker 1: The French police took Mickey to a damp stone prison

346
00:23:11,596 --> 00:23:14,196
Speaker 1: known by locals as Villa Chagrin.

347
00:23:16,516 --> 00:23:19,636
Speaker 7: They took him to jail in Bayjun, where he was

348
00:23:19,676 --> 00:23:24,436
Speaker 7: for several months, and when they were there, the police

349
00:23:24,476 --> 00:23:27,956
Speaker 7: discovered that he was wanted by Interpol and that there

350
00:23:28,036 --> 00:23:32,196
Speaker 7: was an international arrest warrant out from the United States

351
00:23:32,196 --> 00:23:33,076
Speaker 7: from California.

352
00:23:34,156 --> 00:23:37,916
Speaker 1: According to Bob, they found eight fake passports with different

353
00:23:37,996 --> 00:23:41,636
Speaker 1: names on them. Mickey no longer had a valid passport,

354
00:23:41,876 --> 00:23:44,996
Speaker 1: and authorities in France gave him a choice go back

355
00:23:45,036 --> 00:23:47,996
Speaker 1: to the United States and deal with the outstanding warrants

356
00:23:48,516 --> 00:23:51,756
Speaker 1: or go to another country of his choice.

357
00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:56,396
Speaker 4: He made the choice. As far as I know, Niklos

358
00:23:56,596 --> 00:24:00,116
Speaker 4: convinced him to come back. It's some suggestion that get

359
00:24:00,156 --> 00:24:02,516
Speaker 4: it over with now and it'll be okay.

360
00:24:03,796 --> 00:24:07,316
Speaker 1: Mickey, after consulting some lawyers for the Rothschilds who were

361
00:24:07,356 --> 00:24:12,476
Speaker 1: helping out, decided to surrender himself. Miklos sent him a

362
00:24:12,516 --> 00:24:16,716
Speaker 1: first class ticket. He made a reservation on Air France

363
00:24:16,836 --> 00:24:21,236
Speaker 1: flight zero zero three, NonStop from Paris to lax A.

364
00:24:21,396 --> 00:24:25,076
Speaker 1: U S Marshal was dispatched to meet him. The US

365
00:24:25,076 --> 00:24:29,596
Speaker 1: Marshal watched as every single passenger got off that plane

366
00:24:30,476 --> 00:24:37,636
Speaker 1: and Mickey wasn't there. A few days later, the FBI's

367
00:24:37,796 --> 00:24:40,516
Speaker 1: man in Paris sent a telex to the director of

368
00:24:40,556 --> 00:24:45,636
Speaker 1: the FBI. Quote. It would appear that Dora, best described

369
00:24:45,676 --> 00:24:49,636
Speaker 1: as a quintessential, albeit aging boy of summer on a

370
00:24:49,676 --> 00:24:53,876
Speaker 1: perennial quest for the legendary ninth Wave, may have returned

371
00:24:53,916 --> 00:24:57,396
Speaker 1: to Beurritz or some other surfing site instead of too

372
00:24:57,396 --> 00:25:01,876
Speaker 1: Los Angeles as originally planned, given his surf compulsion and

373
00:25:02,076 --> 00:25:08,036
Speaker 1: legendary lack of responsibility unquote. A short time later, the

374
00:25:08,116 --> 00:25:12,556
Speaker 1: FBI learned Mickey had booked a new flight. The bureau

375
00:25:12,596 --> 00:25:20,316
Speaker 1: telex noted quote Paris aware of Dora's hidonic pilgrimage. Magniloquently described,

376
00:25:20,356 --> 00:25:27,676
Speaker 1: heretofore realized he may alter his plans unquote. Then the

377
00:25:27,876 --> 00:25:33,716
Speaker 1: FBI lost track of him. The next bureau communication read

378
00:25:34,396 --> 00:25:40,316
Speaker 1: quote Paris assumes Scintillating Sandor has surfed into the sunset

379
00:25:40,716 --> 00:25:47,476
Speaker 1: and sunk unquote. Sandor was Mickey's middle name. The FBI's

380
00:25:47,556 --> 00:25:52,876
Speaker 1: man in Paris was calling him Scintillating Sandor, an aging

381
00:25:52,996 --> 00:25:57,036
Speaker 1: boy of summer with a legendary lack of responsibility on

382
00:25:57,116 --> 00:26:00,996
Speaker 1: a quest for the ninth Wave. What is this guy

383
00:26:01,356 --> 00:26:04,756
Speaker 1: his handler? He sounds more like a press agent than

384
00:26:04,796 --> 00:26:08,716
Speaker 1: an FBI agent. And why is he so invested in

385
00:26:08,716 --> 00:26:13,396
Speaker 1: Mickey's persona and his quest? Maybe Mickey was working for

386
00:26:13,476 --> 00:26:19,676
Speaker 1: the FBI. Either way, they'd lost him. Mickey was in

387
00:26:19,836 --> 00:26:35,436
Speaker 1: the wind. Micky Dora didn't surf into the sunset and sink,

388
00:26:36,036 --> 00:26:39,876
Speaker 1: though he probably would have loved to. It took another

389
00:26:39,956 --> 00:26:43,636
Speaker 1: two weeks, but Mickey did eventually arrive in Los Angeles

390
00:26:43,956 --> 00:26:47,836
Speaker 1: on September one, nineteen eighty one. He was arrested by

391
00:26:47,836 --> 00:26:50,836
Speaker 1: an FBI agent who took him to a medium security

392
00:26:50,916 --> 00:26:55,716
Speaker 1: federal prison at Terminal Island. He was forty seven years old.

393
00:26:57,556 --> 00:26:59,876
Speaker 1: The first thing Mickey had to do was go up

394
00:26:59,876 --> 00:27:03,956
Speaker 1: to Mono County and face the judge. He was sentenced

395
00:27:03,956 --> 00:27:07,876
Speaker 1: to three years in state prison, suspended he'd need to

396
00:27:07,876 --> 00:27:11,796
Speaker 1: serve less than six months in county jail. In the

397
00:27:11,836 --> 00:27:16,836
Speaker 1: passport case, the FBI's handwriting analysts failed to match Mickey's

398
00:27:16,876 --> 00:27:21,036
Speaker 1: sample with the writing on the Richard Austin Rose Junior application.

399
00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:26,316
Speaker 1: The fingerprint analysis failed too, so the case was dropped

400
00:27:26,836 --> 00:27:31,356
Speaker 1: due to insufficient evidence. That just left the charge over

401
00:27:31,396 --> 00:27:34,796
Speaker 1: the alleged Diners Club fraud, which had been whittled down

402
00:27:34,876 --> 00:27:39,476
Speaker 1: to almost nothing. That case was being heard at a

403
00:27:39,476 --> 00:27:44,036
Speaker 1: federal court in Denver. Mickey's lawyer, a Public Defender, later

404
00:27:44,076 --> 00:27:48,036
Speaker 1: represented Terry Nichols, a conspirator in the Oklahoma City bombing.

405
00:27:49,196 --> 00:27:53,276
Speaker 4: Essentially, the charge was reduced to throwing away your own mail.

406
00:27:54,356 --> 00:27:56,836
Speaker 1: Mickey's biographer David Renson.

407
00:27:57,036 --> 00:28:00,876
Speaker 4: Diners Club sends you a bill, you don't pay it,

408
00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:04,436
Speaker 4: and if you don't pay it or don't open it

409
00:28:04,556 --> 00:28:06,916
Speaker 4: or don't receive it, it's sent back to diners Club,

410
00:28:07,436 --> 00:28:10,516
Speaker 4: but you throw it in the garbage, so you've thrown

411
00:28:10,556 --> 00:28:14,676
Speaker 4: away the mail and interfered with That's what he ultimately

412
00:28:16,196 --> 00:28:17,276
Speaker 4: got nailed.

413
00:28:18,596 --> 00:28:21,636
Speaker 1: For throwing away his own mail. The judge in Denver

414
00:28:21,796 --> 00:28:25,996
Speaker 1: sentenced Mickey to approximately six months at Lompok, a low

415
00:28:26,076 --> 00:28:31,556
Speaker 1: security federal facility in California, and the Diners Club auctioned

416
00:28:31,596 --> 00:28:34,156
Speaker 1: off the one hundred thousand dollars worth of loot in

417
00:28:34,196 --> 00:28:39,076
Speaker 1: his storage facility in New Zealand. Among the auctioned items,

418
00:28:39,116 --> 00:28:44,076
Speaker 1: according to Renson's book, there were six trunks full of tuxedos, cashmere,

419
00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:48,196
Speaker 1: a pink Paisley silk sleeping bag, the street sign from

420
00:28:48,236 --> 00:28:51,716
Speaker 1: the corner of Hollywood and Vine, and the SS leather

421
00:28:51,796 --> 00:28:56,276
Speaker 1: trench coat. A Mawori guy named Mickey bought all of

422
00:28:56,316 --> 00:29:01,956
Speaker 1: Mickey's clothes throughout all this. No matter what he told

423
00:29:01,956 --> 00:29:06,556
Speaker 1: the judges, Mickey insisted that he was innocent. Someone had

424
00:29:06,596 --> 00:29:09,476
Speaker 1: broken into his house and stolen his credit card, leading

425
00:29:09,476 --> 00:29:13,116
Speaker 1: to all those charges. Don Wilson had framed him on

426
00:29:13,156 --> 00:29:16,516
Speaker 1: the passport fraud. He'd returned the ski equipment to the

427
00:29:16,556 --> 00:29:21,796
Speaker 1: shop he couldn't pay restitution because of an accident. He

428
00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:25,316
Speaker 1: had the probation officer's permission to go to Europe, he

429
00:29:25,436 --> 00:29:32,476
Speaker 1: had amnesia and hypoglycemia. Mickey didn't feel sorry, not then,

430
00:29:32,956 --> 00:29:36,996
Speaker 1: not ever, not that he would admit. But when he

431
00:29:37,076 --> 00:29:40,596
Speaker 1: wasn't saying he didn't do it, he was bragging about

432
00:29:40,596 --> 00:29:45,596
Speaker 1: his accomplishments. He'd write. Quote, from nineteen seventy four to

433
00:29:45,676 --> 00:29:49,036
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, I covered well over two hundred thousand

434
00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:53,956
Speaker 1: miles over four continents, ninety percent of the time, reconnoitering

435
00:29:53,996 --> 00:29:59,436
Speaker 1: the coastal areas of India, Africa, the Far East, Indonesia, Australia,

436
00:29:59,676 --> 00:30:04,516
Speaker 1: New Zealand, South America, and hundreds of islands. Only in

437
00:30:04,556 --> 00:30:08,236
Speaker 1: Europe did Interpol or the FEDS ever get close. Only

438
00:30:08,276 --> 00:30:12,036
Speaker 1: after five sports and millions of taxpayer dollars wasted on

439
00:30:12,076 --> 00:30:14,996
Speaker 1: the hunt, did I, with a gun pointed at my head,

440
00:30:15,436 --> 00:30:20,436
Speaker 1: volunteer to return to the USA just visiting thanks, thus

441
00:30:20,556 --> 00:30:24,916
Speaker 1: ending the most extraordinary surfing odyssey in the history of mankind.

442
00:30:29,396 --> 00:30:32,116
Speaker 1: While Mickey was waiting to begin serving his time, he

443
00:30:32,236 --> 00:30:35,796
Speaker 1: was sent to a prison medical facility for a psychiatric evaluation.

444
00:30:39,476 --> 00:30:42,316
Speaker 1: At his dining room table, David pulls a page out

445
00:30:42,316 --> 00:30:43,156
Speaker 1: of Mickey's file.

446
00:30:44,396 --> 00:30:47,516
Speaker 4: Subject is alert and displays some intertention during the interview,

447
00:30:47,556 --> 00:30:51,916
Speaker 4: but he remains composed in a good conditioned contact. He

448
00:30:51,956 --> 00:30:55,716
Speaker 4: has no health complaints except for asthmatic condition. Has to

449
00:30:55,756 --> 00:30:58,276
Speaker 4: be careful in neither smokes nor drinks, which I think

450
00:30:58,356 --> 00:31:00,756
Speaker 4: is true. He states the only drugs he uses a

451
00:31:00,796 --> 00:31:05,156
Speaker 4: prescription plus enormous amounts of health vitamins. You know. Yeah,

452
00:31:05,236 --> 00:31:08,556
Speaker 4: sounds like Mickey. He's defensive and talking about his arrests

453
00:31:08,556 --> 00:31:11,796
Speaker 4: becomes at stated. When he's asked about the Diner's club matter,

454
00:31:12,516 --> 00:31:14,916
Speaker 4: he denies he's involved in that as an upset because

455
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,596
Speaker 4: of his personal property was confiscated to pay off the

456
00:31:17,636 --> 00:31:21,956
Speaker 4: diner's club charges. It appears he's shown some asocial behavior

457
00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:26,076
Speaker 4: in the past, unwilling to admit responsibility. It does appear

458
00:31:26,276 --> 00:31:28,236
Speaker 4: at the present time he has now developed a sense

459
00:31:28,276 --> 00:31:31,116
Speaker 4: of conscience. He's willing to at least face the music

460
00:31:31,116 --> 00:31:32,156
Speaker 4: and get things straightened out.

461
00:31:33,636 --> 00:31:38,036
Speaker 1: The psychologist noted Mickey's hang dog expression and gave him

462
00:31:38,036 --> 00:31:41,476
Speaker 1: a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

463
00:31:42,676 --> 00:31:48,996
Speaker 4: Narcissistic personality Well, okay, that's bandied about a lot these days.

464
00:31:49,036 --> 00:31:53,476
Speaker 4: I'm not sure what that is. But if it's care

465
00:31:53,556 --> 00:31:57,836
Speaker 4: only about yourself and see people's extension of yourself and

466
00:31:59,396 --> 00:32:01,596
Speaker 4: know how to wind them around your finger when you

467
00:32:01,636 --> 00:32:04,516
Speaker 4: need to help yourself. Okay.

468
00:32:06,076 --> 00:32:09,236
Speaker 1: While he was at the prison medical facility for his psychovaluation,

469
00:32:09,636 --> 00:32:12,356
Speaker 1: Mickey ran into someone he'd known back in the sixties,

470
00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:19,916
Speaker 1: another notorious Malibu character, Charles Manson. FBI file one hundred

471
00:32:19,956 --> 00:32:24,036
Speaker 1: and fifty six pages to Dora's eight hundred and seventy six.

472
00:32:25,276 --> 00:32:26,756
Speaker 7: This is the story that he told us here in

473
00:32:26,796 --> 00:32:30,436
Speaker 7: France later. And I've been told so many times. Is

474
00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:32,156
Speaker 7: it true? Is it not true? I don't know, but

475
00:32:32,196 --> 00:32:33,236
Speaker 7: he told it to everybody.

476
00:32:34,196 --> 00:32:36,636
Speaker 1: Bob Simpson, the ex pat lawyer.

477
00:32:37,236 --> 00:32:40,676
Speaker 7: He said, this man came over and talked to me

478
00:32:40,716 --> 00:32:43,836
Speaker 7: and he said, I want to thank you for that

479
00:32:43,956 --> 00:32:46,036
Speaker 7: tip you gave me. And Mickey said, what are you

480
00:32:46,076 --> 00:32:50,236
Speaker 7: talking about? And he said, well, you know, I'm Charles Manson,

481
00:32:50,636 --> 00:32:52,956
Speaker 7: and you know, back in the day when you were

482
00:32:52,996 --> 00:32:57,516
Speaker 7: doing your little thefts in Los Angeles areas at the

483
00:32:57,556 --> 00:33:00,836
Speaker 7: celebrity parties with your girlfriends, you gave me a tip

484
00:33:00,876 --> 00:33:02,596
Speaker 7: to go to one party and I went there with

485
00:33:02,636 --> 00:33:04,236
Speaker 7: my friends and we got a good heist and I

486
00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:09,036
Speaker 7: just thank you, thanks for the tip. So Mickey says, okay,

487
00:33:09,436 --> 00:33:11,636
Speaker 7: you're welcome, and you know, but he didn't really want

488
00:33:11,636 --> 00:33:13,796
Speaker 7: to have anything to do with Charles Manson. And everybody

489
00:33:13,836 --> 00:33:16,596
Speaker 7: saw that Charles Manson knew him, and I said, so

490
00:33:16,676 --> 00:33:18,636
Speaker 7: Mickey all of a sudden became the biggest star in

491
00:33:18,676 --> 00:33:20,996
Speaker 7: the prison, even more so than Charles Manson. He said,

492
00:33:20,996 --> 00:33:23,596
Speaker 7: I don't like this. I needed to get out of here.

493
00:33:25,916 --> 00:33:28,796
Speaker 1: Well, Mickey was serving his sentence. David started trying to

494
00:33:28,836 --> 00:33:30,716
Speaker 1: figure out how to get to him.

495
00:33:31,596 --> 00:33:36,076
Speaker 4: So I spent you know, many months talking to people

496
00:33:36,116 --> 00:33:41,876
Speaker 4: who knew him, who liked him, who, according to Mickey,

497
00:33:41,956 --> 00:33:43,556
Speaker 4: later didn't like him.

498
00:33:44,076 --> 00:33:46,036
Speaker 1: But of course he needed Mickey.

499
00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:48,956
Speaker 4: So now my editor said, well, you've got to talk

500
00:33:48,996 --> 00:33:51,276
Speaker 4: to him. I said, you don't know Mickey he is.

501
00:33:51,276 --> 00:33:53,636
Speaker 4: You got to talk to him. Whut it's published, And

502
00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:55,876
Speaker 4: I found him three days after he got out of

503
00:33:55,956 --> 00:33:58,196
Speaker 4: Lompock Men's Penitentiary.

504
00:33:59,356 --> 00:34:01,956
Speaker 1: David had gotten to know some of Mickey's friends, and

505
00:34:01,996 --> 00:34:04,236
Speaker 1: he asked one of them to act as a go between.

506
00:34:04,756 --> 00:34:07,676
Speaker 1: After months of back and forth, Mickey told David to

507
00:34:07,716 --> 00:34:10,796
Speaker 1: meet him in the library a small community college in

508
00:34:10,836 --> 00:34:16,036
Speaker 1: Orange County. David didn't know what to expect. It was

509
00:34:16,116 --> 00:34:19,036
Speaker 1: May nineteen eighty three, you know.

510
00:34:18,996 --> 00:34:23,836
Speaker 4: He was had a wispy beard goatee looked disheveled. He said,

511
00:34:23,876 --> 00:34:26,876
Speaker 4: why have you taken any interest in me? And I

512
00:34:27,156 --> 00:34:30,996
Speaker 4: don't know. I probably should have been more afraid or

513
00:34:31,036 --> 00:34:33,636
Speaker 4: nervous about it, but I was something. You know how

514
00:34:33,636 --> 00:34:35,516
Speaker 4: it is when you interview someone, you just sort of

515
00:34:35,556 --> 00:34:38,156
Speaker 4: click in. And I said, well, I've taken an interest

516
00:34:38,196 --> 00:34:39,396
Speaker 4: you because where have you been.

517
00:34:40,516 --> 00:34:43,196
Speaker 1: What he remembers is that Mickey was angry at me

518
00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:46,676
Speaker 1: Kloch for being the one who convinced him to return

519
00:34:46,716 --> 00:34:49,636
Speaker 1: to the US and face his accusers.

520
00:34:49,876 --> 00:34:51,916
Speaker 4: In my interview, I said, you came back, and he goes,

521
00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:54,476
Speaker 4: I didn't want to come back, but he did come back,

522
00:34:54,516 --> 00:34:57,316
Speaker 4: and he did have to stay in prison for a

523
00:34:57,356 --> 00:34:59,916
Speaker 4: little while, and that he felt as a betrayal.

524
00:35:00,716 --> 00:35:04,756
Speaker 1: So you think he was changed by his experience in prison.

525
00:35:05,396 --> 00:35:08,556
Speaker 4: I do. I think he said I'm never going back.

526
00:35:09,156 --> 00:35:11,916
Speaker 4: I'm not going to risk that stuff. I just, you know,

527
00:35:12,436 --> 00:35:14,916
Speaker 4: I just sensed a whole change in Mickey.

528
00:35:17,716 --> 00:35:21,556
Speaker 1: After prison, Mickey went back to Gittory, determined not to

529
00:35:21,596 --> 00:35:25,876
Speaker 1: repeat his mistakes. That meant no more funny business with

530
00:35:25,916 --> 00:35:30,676
Speaker 1: the credit cards. With no honest source of income, Mickey

531
00:35:30,796 --> 00:35:34,436
Speaker 1: seemed to be living hand to mouth. He got his

532
00:35:34,516 --> 00:35:37,756
Speaker 1: van back, but it was falling apart. After years of

533
00:35:37,796 --> 00:35:42,236
Speaker 1: being left outside in the salt air, Mickey was showing

534
00:35:42,276 --> 00:35:46,196
Speaker 1: where too. According to Renson's book, he got tossed out

535
00:35:46,196 --> 00:35:48,556
Speaker 1: of a health club for cleaning his clothes in the

536
00:35:48,636 --> 00:35:53,556
Speaker 1: jacuzzi and putting them in the sauna to dry. The

537
00:35:53,716 --> 00:35:59,836
Speaker 1: cat it seemed had used up all his lives. But

538
00:35:59,956 --> 00:36:02,716
Speaker 1: then one day, as Mickey was lying in his van

539
00:36:02,996 --> 00:36:06,076
Speaker 1: in a youth hostel parking lot, there was a knock

540
00:36:06,116 --> 00:36:09,916
Speaker 1: at the door. It was someone from the surf apparel

541
00:36:09,956 --> 00:36:15,556
Speaker 1: company Quicksilver. They were offering a lifeline, an entree to

542
00:36:15,636 --> 00:36:20,196
Speaker 1: the world of professional surfing and the professional surfers. He

543
00:36:20,236 --> 00:36:25,716
Speaker 1: would have once despised. Mickey had relentlessly mocked the surf

544
00:36:25,756 --> 00:36:30,836
Speaker 1: industry for years, but this time Mickey was in no

545
00:36:31,076 --> 00:36:40,196
Speaker 1: position to be choosy. Next time on Lost Tails, Mickey's

546
00:36:40,356 --> 00:36:42,116
Speaker 1: being recorded.

547
00:36:45,076 --> 00:36:49,076
Speaker 8: I mean Chili in the coastline in a little town

548
00:36:49,156 --> 00:36:55,076
Speaker 8: called Pechi Limo. I'm in the little one bedroom hotel room,

549
00:36:55,436 --> 00:37:00,676
Speaker 8: Nicky Dora. Enter, Nicky Dora.

550
00:37:08,036 --> 00:37:16,636
Speaker 1: That's next. In episode eleven, Writing on the Wall Lost

551
00:37:16,676 --> 00:37:20,076
Speaker 1: Hills is written and reported by me Dana Goodyear. It's

552
00:37:20,116 --> 00:37:23,316
Speaker 1: created by me and Ben Adair and produced by Western

553
00:37:23,356 --> 00:37:27,196
Speaker 1: Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you

554
00:37:27,236 --> 00:37:31,236
Speaker 1: can binge the entire season right now ad free. Find

555
00:37:31,276 --> 00:37:34,636
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts,

556
00:37:34,796 --> 00:37:45,516
Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot fm slash plus