1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to 2 00:00:22,036 --> 00:00:24,156 Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new 3 00:00:24,196 --> 00:00:27,936 Speaker 1: season of Lost Hills ad-free along with other great binge 4 00:00:27,986 --> 00:00:32,206 Speaker 1: listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin Plus 5 00:00:32,406 --> 00:00:35,406 Speaker 1: on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or 6 00:00:35,446 --> 00:00:38,456 Speaker 1: at pushkin.fm slash plus. 7 00:00:44,536 --> 00:00:47,356 Speaker 2: He used to call me when I was back in California. 8 00:00:47,836 --> 00:00:50,806 Speaker 2: Half the conversation sometimes we were running about who was 9 00:00:50,856 --> 00:00:52,926 Speaker 2: out trying to get him, where the FBI looking for him. 10 00:00:53,426 --> 00:00:56,026 Speaker 2: Don't talk to so-and-so. Don't tell the so-and-so where I am. 11 00:00:57,246 --> 00:01:01,566 Speaker 1: Kevin Naughton and Craig Peterson, the Surfer Magazine photojournalists, kept 12 00:01:01,606 --> 00:01:05,686 Speaker 1: in touch with Mickey after they left France in 1978. 13 00:01:05,686 --> 00:01:09,636 Speaker 1: Or he kept in touch with them. He'd always call 14 00:01:09,856 --> 00:01:11,376 Speaker 1: from a certain phone booth. 15 00:01:12,146 --> 00:01:15,206 Speaker 3: The phone booth was in a, was it Bayonne? 16 00:01:15,226 --> 00:01:18,006 Speaker 2: It was in Bayonne. It was the main telecommunications in Bayonne. 17 00:01:18,066 --> 00:01:22,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, right outside the main telecommunications building in Bayonne. And 18 00:01:22,396 --> 00:01:24,656 Speaker 3: it's a classic phone booth. And you would go in 19 00:01:24,676 --> 00:01:28,176 Speaker 3: there and put in your frank pieces of coin in 20 00:01:28,216 --> 00:01:31,196 Speaker 3: there and try to dial internationally to different places. 21 00:01:31,216 --> 00:01:33,776 Speaker 2: Remember, Craig, there was a couple of dozen phone booths 22 00:01:33,876 --> 00:01:34,676 Speaker 2: outside the building. 23 00:01:35,786 --> 00:01:40,246 Speaker 1: But Mickey's phone booth didn't work like other telephones. There 24 00:01:40,286 --> 00:01:41,326 Speaker 1: was a trick to it. 25 00:01:42,166 --> 00:01:45,586 Speaker 3: But Mickey showed us the one that if you put 26 00:01:45,606 --> 00:01:47,906 Speaker 3: in your coins a certain way, and as the coin 27 00:01:47,946 --> 00:01:50,146 Speaker 3: was dropping down, you hit it on the side of 28 00:01:50,166 --> 00:01:53,286 Speaker 3: the machine twice and once at the bottom or something, 29 00:01:53,866 --> 00:01:56,306 Speaker 3: then it would be unlimited time on the phone. 30 00:01:58,546 --> 00:02:02,166 Speaker 1: That phone booth by the main telecommunications building in Bayonne 31 00:02:02,506 --> 00:02:04,806 Speaker 1: was the way Mickey kept in touch with his network 32 00:02:04,966 --> 00:02:05,746 Speaker 1: around the world. 33 00:02:06,226 --> 00:02:07,966 Speaker 2: He would only go late at night when there was 34 00:02:08,006 --> 00:02:11,386 Speaker 2: no one else around. And He liked to do it 35 00:02:11,406 --> 00:02:13,326 Speaker 2: in secret like that, you know, and be the guy 36 00:02:13,366 --> 00:02:16,866 Speaker 2: making these calls, probably because of some time zone changes too. 37 00:02:17,606 --> 00:02:22,706 Speaker 1: What he didn't realize was that he was being watched. 38 00:02:23,806 --> 00:02:28,026 Speaker 2: He kept going there regularly at night. And after a while, 39 00:02:28,056 --> 00:02:31,796 Speaker 2: it aroused the suspicion of the French authorities. There were 40 00:02:31,836 --> 00:02:35,956 Speaker 2: vast separatists very active around the French-Spanish border at that time. 41 00:02:36,946 --> 00:02:41,646 Speaker 1: The Basque separatists, a militant leftist group seeking independence from Spain, 42 00:02:42,006 --> 00:02:46,026 Speaker 1: had carried out a number of high-profile robberies, kidnappings, and 43 00:02:46,126 --> 00:02:47,686 Speaker 1: terror attacks in the region. 44 00:02:48,406 --> 00:02:51,176 Speaker 2: So the authorities thought, you know, if they're going to 45 00:02:51,216 --> 00:02:53,936 Speaker 2: blow up something, it might be the telecommunications building, so 46 00:02:53,956 --> 00:02:56,256 Speaker 2: let's keep an eye on it. Of course, then after 47 00:02:56,276 --> 00:02:59,496 Speaker 2: a while, they noticed this guy showing up in his van, 48 00:02:59,516 --> 00:03:03,336 Speaker 2: a foreigner, going back to the well. What's he doing 49 00:03:03,366 --> 00:03:06,076 Speaker 2: at this same phone, making all these calls? You know, 50 00:03:06,256 --> 00:03:08,496 Speaker 2: this went on for weeks and then months and going 51 00:03:08,536 --> 00:03:12,166 Speaker 2: on and on. And they swooped in one night. He 52 00:03:12,206 --> 00:03:14,586 Speaker 2: showed up, was making a call somewhere and they busted him. 53 00:03:16,146 --> 00:03:19,766 Speaker 2: And that was when all his past deeds caught up 54 00:03:19,806 --> 00:03:23,406 Speaker 2: with him very quickly. Everything happened at once. They ran 55 00:03:23,456 --> 00:03:27,296 Speaker 2: an international check on him and it all came collapsed 56 00:03:27,316 --> 00:03:31,056 Speaker 2: down his world. All because of this one little phone call. 57 00:03:31,556 --> 00:03:33,476 Speaker 2: in France that he showed us, and he just didn't 58 00:03:33,496 --> 00:03:35,786 Speaker 2: know enough to stop using it. And he kept going 59 00:03:35,846 --> 00:03:38,486 Speaker 2: back to it. And that's the single Frank that led 60 00:03:38,506 --> 00:03:39,546 Speaker 2: to his downfall. 61 00:03:42,686 --> 00:03:46,376 Speaker 1: Mickey was busted in May of 1981. He'd been a 62 00:03:46,426 --> 00:03:51,016 Speaker 1: fugitive for nearly seven years. Now, he was headed for 63 00:03:51,076 --> 00:03:55,216 Speaker 1: a moldy French jail cell. And he was one step 64 00:03:55,276 --> 00:04:01,456 Speaker 1: closer to seeing his long-lost California coast. courtesy of the FBI, 65 00:04:01,856 --> 00:04:09,486 Speaker 1: which couldn't wait to bring him home. I'm Dana Goodyear, 66 00:04:10,046 --> 00:04:39,906 Speaker 1: and this is Lost Hills. Lost Hills Episode 10, Aging 67 00:04:40,006 --> 00:04:40,806 Speaker 1: Boy of Summer. 68 00:04:44,666 --> 00:04:48,346 Speaker 4: Okay, here's a box full of 800 pages of the 69 00:04:48,446 --> 00:04:52,006 Speaker 4: FBI file. Enter at your own risk. 70 00:04:54,806 --> 00:04:57,986 Speaker 1: This is David Renson again, the journalist who wrote the 71 00:04:58,026 --> 00:05:00,686 Speaker 1: definitive oral history of Mickey Dora's life. 72 00:05:02,146 --> 00:05:05,666 Speaker 4: I moved to California in 1964 with my family before 73 00:05:05,706 --> 00:05:09,796 Speaker 4: I left some young classmate, said, you'll be able to 74 00:05:09,816 --> 00:05:14,696 Speaker 4: go surfing. I said, what's that? And so I got 75 00:05:14,736 --> 00:05:18,876 Speaker 4: aboard and went with my friends. And I started reading 76 00:05:18,896 --> 00:05:25,116 Speaker 4: the genre magazines in 64 and 65, Surf Guide, Surfer, 77 00:05:25,636 --> 00:05:28,936 Speaker 4: International Surfing. So that's how I discovered Mickey. 78 00:05:30,136 --> 00:05:33,576 Speaker 1: He's been fascinated by Mickey Dora ever since he moved 79 00:05:33,616 --> 00:05:35,656 Speaker 1: to Southern California from New Jersey. 80 00:05:36,976 --> 00:05:38,636 Speaker 4: I found out that, you know, from reading these magazines, 81 00:05:38,676 --> 00:05:42,316 Speaker 4: he disappeared in 1974. And so all of us wondered 82 00:05:42,376 --> 00:05:45,356 Speaker 4: what happened. The rumors were, oh, he's a lawyer in 83 00:05:45,376 --> 00:05:50,376 Speaker 4: Century City. You know, he's living with the Third Reich 84 00:05:50,476 --> 00:05:55,116 Speaker 4: escapees in Argentina. He's doing this, he's doing that. Nobody knew. 85 00:05:56,296 --> 00:06:00,316 Speaker 1: For most of the 1970s, there were only rumors. All 86 00:06:00,356 --> 00:06:02,716 Speaker 1: of them added to the Mickey Dora mythology. 87 00:06:03,876 --> 00:06:08,536 Speaker 4: And then... In 1982, I saw a clip that said, 88 00:06:09,276 --> 00:06:13,926 Speaker 4: famous surfer held in Denver for credit card fraud, Mickey Dora. 89 00:06:15,166 --> 00:06:18,726 Speaker 1: Not only was Mickey Dora not a lawyer in Century City, 90 00:06:19,366 --> 00:06:21,886 Speaker 1: he was about to be an inmate in federal prison. 91 00:06:23,006 --> 00:06:26,416 Speaker 1: David was working for California Magazine at the time. He 92 00:06:26,456 --> 00:06:30,496 Speaker 1: pitched his editor a profile of Mickey, Mickey the Felon. 93 00:06:31,756 --> 00:06:34,866 Speaker 1: and he submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to 94 00:06:34,906 --> 00:06:43,046 Speaker 1: the FBI. I'm sitting at David's dining room table, looking 95 00:06:43,146 --> 00:06:46,886 Speaker 1: out a big window at the ocean. On a chair, 96 00:06:47,066 --> 00:06:50,426 Speaker 1: there's a box containing all the documentation of the criminal 97 00:06:50,466 --> 00:06:57,416 Speaker 1: investigations into Mickey Dora. The FBI's file on Mickey Dora 98 00:06:57,696 --> 00:07:03,046 Speaker 1: is 876 pages long. That's a little longer than the 99 00:07:03,206 --> 00:07:07,696 Speaker 1: FBI's file on the Zodiac Killer, and not much shorter 100 00:07:07,856 --> 00:07:12,216 Speaker 1: than its file on Bonnie and Clyde. But the contents 101 00:07:12,276 --> 00:07:18,316 Speaker 1: of Mickey's file are a whole lot of nothing. 876 102 00:07:19,026 --> 00:07:23,826 Speaker 1: pages of tracking and minutely documenting the worldwide travels of 103 00:07:23,866 --> 00:07:28,996 Speaker 1: a surfer who had, number one, stolen some ski equipment 104 00:07:29,096 --> 00:07:34,816 Speaker 1: and antiques and violated his probation. Number two, allegedly filed 105 00:07:34,936 --> 00:07:38,606 Speaker 1: false information on a passport application for a passport that 106 00:07:38,646 --> 00:07:43,706 Speaker 1: was never issued. And number three, defrauded the diners club 107 00:07:43,966 --> 00:07:50,996 Speaker 1: while on said worldwide travels. David walks me through the 108 00:07:51,036 --> 00:07:54,276 Speaker 1: first case, the ski equipment stolen from a shop in 109 00:07:54,316 --> 00:07:55,576 Speaker 1: Mammoth in Mono County. 110 00:07:56,916 --> 00:08:00,656 Speaker 4: Charges are broad. I believe he missed a few court dates, 111 00:08:01,316 --> 00:08:06,156 Speaker 4: got there, finally pled guilty. You know, Judge Harry Roberts 112 00:08:06,836 --> 00:08:10,836 Speaker 4: set up the repayment schedule, plus can't own any credit 113 00:08:10,876 --> 00:08:15,256 Speaker 4: cards and need permission to leave California. 114 00:08:16,256 --> 00:08:19,436 Speaker 1: But instead of sticking around and doing what he was told. 115 00:08:20,536 --> 00:08:22,076 Speaker 4: He applies for a passport in the name of a 116 00:08:22,096 --> 00:08:22,536 Speaker 4: dead guy. 117 00:08:23,776 --> 00:08:24,956 Speaker 1: So then he's on the run. 118 00:08:25,906 --> 00:08:27,126 Speaker 4: So then he's on the run. 119 00:08:28,446 --> 00:08:32,146 Speaker 1: That's the second case, the passport application in the name 120 00:08:32,206 --> 00:08:35,786 Speaker 1: of Richard Austin Roche Jr. And that's what caught the 121 00:08:35,826 --> 00:08:40,546 Speaker 1: attention of the FBI. And once they started looking at Mickey, 122 00:08:41,086 --> 00:08:45,766 Speaker 1: they couldn't take their eyes off him. They interviewed people 123 00:08:46,066 --> 00:08:49,106 Speaker 1: up and down the coast of California, staked out Mickey's 124 00:08:49,206 --> 00:08:56,736 Speaker 1: father's house, intercepted mail. agents spent years interviewing his friends, family, exes, 125 00:08:57,096 --> 00:09:02,596 Speaker 1: and his, quote, blood enemies. In particular, they focused on surfers. 126 00:09:03,436 --> 00:09:07,096 Speaker 1: Interviewing sources in Malibu and other beach cities, they got 127 00:09:07,136 --> 00:09:11,486 Speaker 1: an earful about, quote, the surfing god. They call him 128 00:09:11,506 --> 00:09:16,246 Speaker 1: the cat, one informant told the FBI, because, quote, no 129 00:09:16,326 --> 00:09:18,346 Speaker 1: one knows when he's coming or going. 130 00:09:18,366 --> 00:09:22,396 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is all the stuff that just, this... brewed 131 00:09:22,456 --> 00:09:25,116 Speaker 4: up the, where's Mickey, what's going on with Mickey, where's Mickey. 132 00:09:25,936 --> 00:09:30,716 Speaker 4: Some people know, knew, but they interview his family and friends. 133 00:09:32,236 --> 00:09:35,026 Speaker 4: Please let us know if you hear from him. It's 134 00:09:35,066 --> 00:09:38,806 Speaker 4: illegal to harbor a criminal. People would either say, I 135 00:09:39,246 --> 00:09:42,286 Speaker 4: wouldn't tell you if I did know, or, you know, 136 00:09:42,326 --> 00:09:45,146 Speaker 4: just put out a bag of jewels in the center 137 00:09:45,186 --> 00:09:48,476 Speaker 4: of the square and the Mickey Dora snake will slither 138 00:09:48,516 --> 00:09:49,206 Speaker 4: out and grab it. 139 00:09:50,766 --> 00:09:54,816 Speaker 1: One FBI informant offered to provide information on Mickey, quote, 140 00:09:55,076 --> 00:09:58,916 Speaker 1: for the right price. Another went on at length about 141 00:09:58,936 --> 00:10:03,826 Speaker 1: illegal operations Mickey was supposedly the mastermind of, jewelry heists 142 00:10:04,026 --> 00:10:08,666 Speaker 1: in Central and South America, smuggling counterfeit U.S. currency from 143 00:10:08,746 --> 00:10:14,796 Speaker 1: Singapore to New Zealand and Australia. According to another FBI source, 144 00:10:15,036 --> 00:10:18,696 Speaker 1: Mickey had been smuggling drugs into New Zealand using, quote, 145 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:24,216 Speaker 1: hollowed-out surfboards. The more the FBI asked around about Mickey, 146 00:10:24,856 --> 00:10:30,596 Speaker 1: the more interested they got. Agents had been keeping close 147 00:10:30,676 --> 00:10:33,736 Speaker 1: tabs on Linda Kai when she was traveling with Mickey. 148 00:10:34,566 --> 00:10:37,866 Speaker 1: When she left Mickey and came back to California, they swooped. 149 00:10:39,146 --> 00:10:42,286 Speaker 5: I was sick. I'd just come back from somewhere. I 150 00:10:42,326 --> 00:10:44,306 Speaker 5: can't remember where now. Some long trip. 151 00:10:45,066 --> 00:10:47,006 Speaker 1: She was recuperating at her parents' house. 152 00:10:47,846 --> 00:10:49,246 Speaker 5: I was in the front room and the dog was 153 00:10:49,306 --> 00:10:51,786 Speaker 5: barking like nuts. There was some guy ran around through 154 00:10:51,806 --> 00:10:54,106 Speaker 5: the back gate to be sure nobody was back there 155 00:10:54,146 --> 00:10:57,626 Speaker 5: with a gun drawn. And the guy comes to the front, 156 00:10:57,716 --> 00:11:03,476 Speaker 5: you know, plainclothes. And he goes, where's Mickey? Mickey Dora here? 157 00:11:03,496 --> 00:11:06,996 Speaker 5: And I said, no, he doesn't live here. Why would 158 00:11:07,016 --> 00:11:12,616 Speaker 5: he be here? Well, you're Linda, right? And I said, yes. 159 00:11:13,496 --> 00:11:16,476 Speaker 5: And he said, well, we almost caught you in Kenya. 160 00:11:17,556 --> 00:11:19,336 Speaker 5: And I was like, well, I don't know anything about 161 00:11:19,636 --> 00:11:22,676 Speaker 5: any of that, you know. He says, yeah, we were close. 162 00:11:22,696 --> 00:11:27,646 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, okay. I was like. 163 00:11:28,656 --> 00:11:29,056 Speaker 3: What else? 164 00:11:29,116 --> 00:11:31,256 Speaker 5: I said, I'm not feeling real good. You know, I'm sick, 165 00:11:31,296 --> 00:11:34,876 Speaker 5: you know. And he goes, where is Mickey? And I said, 166 00:11:34,916 --> 00:11:37,486 Speaker 5: I don't know. I said, I haven't seen him at all. 167 00:11:37,506 --> 00:11:41,006 Speaker 5: And it was just a real, like a quick kind 168 00:11:41,026 --> 00:11:43,586 Speaker 5: of scare. And, you know, I said, you don't need 169 00:11:43,606 --> 00:11:44,686 Speaker 5: to have guns, you know. 170 00:11:44,766 --> 00:11:45,126 Speaker 3: Come on. 171 00:11:45,146 --> 00:11:46,186 Speaker 5: This is scary. 172 00:11:47,286 --> 00:11:48,486 Speaker 1: And did you call Mickey right away? 173 00:11:49,126 --> 00:11:50,006 Speaker 5: There's nowhere to call. 174 00:11:50,526 --> 00:11:51,086 Speaker 1: Where was he? 175 00:11:51,406 --> 00:11:52,166 Speaker 5: I have no idea. 176 00:11:52,306 --> 00:11:53,846 Speaker 1: Oh, so you really didn't know where he was. 177 00:11:53,906 --> 00:11:54,086 Speaker 6: No. 178 00:11:55,426 --> 00:12:00,076 Speaker 1: The FBI also visited Jim Kempton. He's now the president 179 00:12:00,116 --> 00:12:03,276 Speaker 1: of the California Surf Museum, but back then, he was 180 00:12:03,396 --> 00:12:04,796 Speaker 1: editing Surfer Magazine. 181 00:12:05,836 --> 00:12:07,376 Speaker 7: I got a visit from the FBI. 182 00:12:08,426 --> 00:12:10,646 Speaker 1: First, the agent showed up at his parents' house. 183 00:12:11,766 --> 00:12:14,446 Speaker 7: And of course, my parents being, you know, the greatest generation, 184 00:12:14,706 --> 00:12:17,686 Speaker 7: 40s people, immediately told him right where I was. Right? 185 00:12:17,726 --> 00:12:19,906 Speaker 7: Not like, oh, you don't know. You know, like, oh no, 186 00:12:19,926 --> 00:12:21,286 Speaker 7: my son lives right down here. You'll be able to 187 00:12:21,326 --> 00:12:23,536 Speaker 7: find him right away. Assuming that, like, I was a 188 00:12:23,546 --> 00:12:26,596 Speaker 7: total good guy, you know, which probably wasn't the greatest 189 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 7: assumption to make. But, Um, so they came and they 190 00:12:30,696 --> 00:12:33,296 Speaker 7: asked me all about Mickey and what I knew. And 191 00:12:33,476 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 7: I went out of my way to give them as 192 00:12:36,356 --> 00:12:39,846 Speaker 7: little information as I possibly could without lying to them. 193 00:12:39,876 --> 00:12:41,906 Speaker 7: Cause I knew that lying with the FBI was a crime. 194 00:12:41,966 --> 00:12:44,926 Speaker 7: So I wasn't going to tell him anything untrue, but 195 00:12:44,966 --> 00:12:46,886 Speaker 7: I was going to, I was going to, I don't 196 00:12:46,926 --> 00:12:49,866 Speaker 7: recall as many times as I could, or I don't 197 00:12:49,926 --> 00:12:53,186 Speaker 7: know as many times as I could without being obvious, 198 00:12:54,246 --> 00:12:55,536 Speaker 7: but Mickey heard about it. 199 00:12:57,616 --> 00:12:59,836 Speaker 1: For a guy hiding out in a van in the 200 00:12:59,876 --> 00:13:02,616 Speaker 1: south of France, Mickey was pretty connected. 201 00:13:03,916 --> 00:13:07,456 Speaker 7: So a few weeks later, at Surfer Magazine, this box 202 00:13:07,516 --> 00:13:14,276 Speaker 7: arrives that I open. It's from Mickey, dressed on the 203 00:13:14,316 --> 00:13:17,896 Speaker 7: outside so I'd be sure to open it, right? And 204 00:13:18,116 --> 00:13:25,716 Speaker 7: it's a dried turd with a relatively threatening note in it. 205 00:13:26,676 --> 00:13:30,756 Speaker 7: And all it did was really make me angry because 206 00:13:30,816 --> 00:13:33,916 Speaker 7: it made me angry that he would think that I 207 00:13:33,956 --> 00:13:39,516 Speaker 7: would do that. And the fact that I had gone 208 00:13:39,586 --> 00:13:41,546 Speaker 7: out of my way not to do that and wasn't 209 00:13:41,586 --> 00:13:47,566 Speaker 7: being credited by him for having protected his position was 210 00:13:47,606 --> 00:13:48,826 Speaker 7: very aggravating to me. 211 00:13:51,286 --> 00:13:55,826 Speaker 1: The FBI seemed to really want Mickey. But why? 212 00:13:55,846 --> 00:13:55,916 Speaker 6: Why? 213 00:13:58,146 --> 00:14:06,216 Speaker 4: I thought it was really interesting how vociferously the FBI 214 00:14:06,336 --> 00:14:12,136 Speaker 4: pursued the Richard Austin Roach thing. It seemed like, so what? 215 00:14:13,076 --> 00:14:17,536 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a crime. And making a false statement, 216 00:14:17,556 --> 00:14:20,526 Speaker 4: they would chase him all over the world and send 217 00:14:20,566 --> 00:14:24,306 Speaker 4: all those telexes back and forth. And that FBI file 218 00:14:24,506 --> 00:14:26,986 Speaker 4: is heavy, heavy, heavy with that stuff. 219 00:14:28,836 --> 00:14:32,096 Speaker 1: The alleged crime they wanted him for, making a false 220 00:14:32,136 --> 00:14:35,096 Speaker 1: statement in a passport application for a passport that was 221 00:14:35,176 --> 00:14:39,036 Speaker 1: never issued, would have meant, at the most, five years 222 00:14:39,076 --> 00:14:41,836 Speaker 1: in prison or a fine of a couple thousand dollars. 223 00:14:43,116 --> 00:14:48,686 Speaker 1: It just doesn't seem to justify all this effort. And meanwhile, 224 00:14:49,246 --> 00:14:53,066 Speaker 1: Mickey was denying he'd done anything wrong. So what was 225 00:14:53,146 --> 00:15:11,856 Speaker 1: really going on? The third case against Mickey had to 226 00:15:11,896 --> 00:15:15,676 Speaker 1: do with all those doctored credit cards Linda says they 227 00:15:15,696 --> 00:15:19,646 Speaker 1: were using in their travels. The Diners Club was alleging 228 00:15:19,786 --> 00:15:24,346 Speaker 1: large-scale fraud, and Mickey, in absentia, had been indicted in 229 00:15:24,406 --> 00:15:29,946 Speaker 1: federal court. By the late 70s, Mickey's father was speaking 230 00:15:30,086 --> 00:15:34,296 Speaker 1: regularly to the FBI. He would sometimes confront Mickey with 231 00:15:34,336 --> 00:15:41,326 Speaker 1: the allegations against him. Mickey insisted he was innocent. Mickey 232 00:15:41,386 --> 00:15:48,726 Speaker 1: said he was being framed. Dear Father, Mickey wrote to Miklosch, 233 00:15:49,206 --> 00:15:51,806 Speaker 1: there is this creature by the name of Don Wilson, 234 00:15:52,146 --> 00:15:56,246 Speaker 1: the poor man's Dillinger of our times. This person is 235 00:15:56,286 --> 00:15:59,886 Speaker 1: an escaped convict, a record of forgery, credit card theft, 236 00:16:00,026 --> 00:16:03,506 Speaker 1: and many other offenses, I'm quite sure. He's been dashing 237 00:16:03,566 --> 00:16:06,386 Speaker 1: around the U.S. and elsewhere using my checks and credit 238 00:16:06,406 --> 00:16:14,466 Speaker 1: cards and identifications. Don Wilson. The pirate captain. Linda's old 239 00:16:14,586 --> 00:16:17,816 Speaker 1: con artist boyfriend who'd shown up at their doorstep in 240 00:16:17,856 --> 00:16:23,556 Speaker 1: New Zealand. Mickey said Don was impersonating him, committing crimes 241 00:16:23,776 --> 00:16:28,836 Speaker 1: in his name. According to a memo in Mickey's FBI file, 242 00:16:29,316 --> 00:16:33,196 Speaker 1: Miklos spoke to Mickey about the passport fraud. saying he'd 243 00:16:33,286 --> 00:16:36,656 Speaker 1: seen the photo submitted with the passport application for Richard 244 00:16:36,776 --> 00:16:41,576 Speaker 1: Austin Roche Jr., and he recognized Mickey. Miklos told the 245 00:16:41,676 --> 00:16:44,496 Speaker 1: agents that Mickey had said someone else must have done 246 00:16:44,516 --> 00:16:46,676 Speaker 1: the fraud and was trying to put the blame on him. 247 00:16:47,636 --> 00:16:50,446 Speaker 1: The memo goes on to state that Mickey claimed that 248 00:16:50,486 --> 00:16:53,046 Speaker 1: back when he was living in Brentwood, an old friend 249 00:16:53,086 --> 00:16:57,646 Speaker 1: from the Pacific Palisades, i.e. Don Wilson, had somehow gotten 250 00:16:57,706 --> 00:17:00,586 Speaker 1: into his house and stolen his credit cards and some 251 00:17:00,626 --> 00:17:05,296 Speaker 1: other documents. Don Wilson, Mickey said, was likely the person 252 00:17:05,356 --> 00:17:09,356 Speaker 1: behind the passport fraud, and Don Wilson was probably the 253 00:17:09,496 --> 00:17:12,616 Speaker 1: one using doctored credit cards with Mickey's name on them. 254 00:17:14,106 --> 00:17:18,066 Speaker 1: Don had been pulling scams in Mickey's name? Mickey was 255 00:17:18,106 --> 00:17:24,506 Speaker 1: the victim? It's intriguing. Mostly because Mickey and Don seemed 256 00:17:24,546 --> 00:17:28,366 Speaker 1: to sabotage each other whenever possible. But I struggle to 257 00:17:28,406 --> 00:17:34,436 Speaker 1: believe that Don Wilson's mischief explains Mickey's legal trouble. Mickey's 258 00:17:34,476 --> 00:17:38,296 Speaker 1: storage unit in New Zealand, for example, it was filled 259 00:17:38,336 --> 00:17:43,916 Speaker 1: with $ 100, 000 worth of antiques and other valuables, 24 used 260 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:48,556 Speaker 1: fake airline tickets, and 60 credit cards, many of them 261 00:17:48,876 --> 00:17:52,436 Speaker 1: altered or defaced that had been taken out in Dora's name. 262 00:17:53,836 --> 00:17:57,206 Speaker 1: I don't think even the pirate captain could have managed 263 00:17:57,266 --> 00:18:02,026 Speaker 1: to get inside Mickey's storage unit and plant that incriminating evidence. 264 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:07,476 Speaker 1: But there is something that doesn't make sense about the 265 00:18:07,516 --> 00:18:13,436 Speaker 1: case against Mickey. Why is his file so fat? Why 266 00:18:13,476 --> 00:18:17,496 Speaker 1: did agents trace his movements around the world on such 267 00:18:17,856 --> 00:18:24,416 Speaker 1: flimsy and insignificant charges? Some people say the reason Mickey 268 00:18:24,536 --> 00:18:28,706 Speaker 1: was so on their radar was because he was working 269 00:18:28,806 --> 00:18:32,846 Speaker 1: for them. That he wasn't a target of the FBI. 270 00:18:33,506 --> 00:18:38,066 Speaker 1: He was an asset. The file, all the dirt they 271 00:18:38,086 --> 00:18:42,716 Speaker 1: gathered on him, the gossip and the rumors, that was collateral. 272 00:18:43,816 --> 00:18:47,276 Speaker 1: They let him run so far and for so long, 273 00:18:48,136 --> 00:18:51,726 Speaker 1: not because they were inept and couldn't nab him, but 274 00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:57,586 Speaker 1: because he was gathering useful information for them in India, Africa, Indonesia, 275 00:18:58,366 --> 00:19:01,476 Speaker 1: everywhere he went on his search for the perfect wave. 276 00:19:03,436 --> 00:19:09,416 Speaker 1: This theory turns the whole Mickey story inside out. David Ranson. 277 00:19:10,436 --> 00:19:12,696 Speaker 4: You've got all that stuff about people saying he wasn't 278 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:16,726 Speaker 4: really working for the FBI. You've heard of that? 279 00:19:18,006 --> 00:19:19,166 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of that. 280 00:19:19,806 --> 00:19:25,316 Speaker 4: Because I believe that idea was, notice how he ends 281 00:19:25,376 --> 00:19:27,676 Speaker 4: up in these hot spots coincidentally. 282 00:19:29,646 --> 00:19:33,766 Speaker 1: I'm tempted to think that this is pure myth-making. Mickey's 283 00:19:33,826 --> 00:19:38,146 Speaker 1: fanboy is trying to glamorize his exploits. Give a James 284 00:19:38,226 --> 00:19:43,466 Speaker 1: Bond varnish to Mickey's chintzy three-card Monty approach to life. 285 00:19:45,226 --> 00:19:48,526 Speaker 1: But David says there's some reason to give credence to 286 00:19:48,566 --> 00:19:51,326 Speaker 1: the idea that Mickey had a special status with the 287 00:19:51,486 --> 00:19:56,706 Speaker 1: FBI He says while Mickey was still a fugitive, he'd 288 00:19:56,826 --> 00:20:00,046 Speaker 1: somehow gotten access to his own FBI file. 289 00:20:02,196 --> 00:20:05,416 Speaker 4: My friend Jerry said he was in Biarritz one day 290 00:20:05,436 --> 00:20:12,396 Speaker 4: before the repatriation to America and Mickey had his FBI 291 00:20:12,436 --> 00:20:16,136 Speaker 4: file and said to Jerry, here, look, here it is. 292 00:20:16,276 --> 00:20:18,676 Speaker 4: And Jerry said, I don't know how he got that 293 00:20:19,356 --> 00:20:20,816 Speaker 4: And he looked through it and he saw all sorts 294 00:20:20,856 --> 00:20:23,356 Speaker 4: of stuff that is obviously... I don't know how Mickey 295 00:20:23,376 --> 00:20:28,156 Speaker 4: got it. Which leads to the... I don't know. I 296 00:20:28,636 --> 00:20:30,696 Speaker 4: think Jerry's telling the truth. And I talked to a 297 00:20:30,716 --> 00:20:33,776 Speaker 4: friend of mine who's an FBI agent who did describe 298 00:20:33,816 --> 00:20:37,856 Speaker 4: to me that sometimes informants, you know, get some privileges, 299 00:20:38,466 --> 00:20:41,706 Speaker 4: but no guarantees. You know, if they screw up, they 300 00:20:41,726 --> 00:20:49,446 Speaker 4: could just... It's just a total guess... It's possible Mickey 301 00:20:49,486 --> 00:20:52,086 Speaker 4: cut a deal, but I don't know. 302 00:20:52,346 --> 00:20:54,946 Speaker 1: Who or what would he have had info on that 303 00:20:54,966 --> 00:20:55,546 Speaker 1: they wanted? 304 00:20:57,346 --> 00:21:03,416 Speaker 4: Stolen passports, drug smuggling, credit card fraud. I don't know. 305 00:21:04,096 --> 00:21:06,796 Speaker 4: But that's the nature of Mickey Dora. You never know 306 00:21:06,836 --> 00:21:07,376 Speaker 4: what's true. 307 00:21:07,396 --> 00:21:10,556 Speaker 1: Or there could be a little tiny bit of truth. 308 00:21:10,576 --> 00:21:12,716 Speaker 4: Tiny bit of truth. You took the words out of 309 00:21:12,756 --> 00:21:13,056 Speaker 4: my mouth. 310 00:21:15,176 --> 00:21:18,536 Speaker 1: Whatever the truth is about Mickey's relationship with the FBI, 311 00:21:19,206 --> 00:21:22,766 Speaker 1: the longer he stayed in exile, the more he began 312 00:21:22,906 --> 00:21:28,846 Speaker 1: to unravel. The records in Mickey's FBI file paint a 313 00:21:28,926 --> 00:21:31,806 Speaker 1: dark picture of his time in Gittery leading up to 314 00:21:31,846 --> 00:21:37,356 Speaker 1: his arrest. Linda told agents Mickey was, quote, totally paranoid 315 00:21:37,456 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 1: and emotionally unstable, and that she was, quote, scared to 316 00:21:41,716 --> 00:21:46,056 Speaker 1: death of him. Mickey, she said, had hidden her passport 317 00:21:46,196 --> 00:21:48,256 Speaker 1: and her money to try to keep her from leaving. 318 00:21:49,136 --> 00:21:54,156 Speaker 1: She told the agents she was done with him. Back 319 00:21:54,216 --> 00:21:58,796 Speaker 1: in France, in his green Mercedes-Benz camper van, Mickey was 320 00:21:58,916 --> 00:22:05,486 Speaker 1: losing it. Quote, subject recently returned to France from South Africa, 321 00:22:05,926 --> 00:22:09,466 Speaker 1: believed to be using altered expired passport in his own 322 00:22:09,526 --> 00:22:15,766 Speaker 1: name and believed heavily involved in narcotics. unquote. Quote, subject 323 00:22:15,846 --> 00:22:21,566 Speaker 1: becoming paranoid and erratic, unquote. Quote, subject appears to be 324 00:22:21,686 --> 00:22:25,656 Speaker 1: undergoing nervous breakdown, has alienated a number of friends, and 325 00:22:25,696 --> 00:22:33,876 Speaker 1: believed to be financially desperate, unquote. Mickey was arrested at 326 00:22:33,896 --> 00:22:38,196 Speaker 1: the rigged phone booth in May of 1981. His first instinct, 327 00:22:38,556 --> 00:22:42,036 Speaker 1: formed of lifelong habit, was to try to get out 328 00:22:42,076 --> 00:22:42,286 Speaker 1: of it. 329 00:22:44,076 --> 00:22:46,236 Speaker 6: He said, well, you know, I'm just calling some friends 330 00:22:47,056 --> 00:22:51,016 Speaker 6: and I put my 50 centimes in and I don't know, 331 00:22:51,036 --> 00:22:52,276 Speaker 6: it doesn't ask for more money. 332 00:22:53,296 --> 00:22:57,036 Speaker 1: This is Bob Simpson, an American lawyer who knew Mickey 333 00:22:57,116 --> 00:22:59,376 Speaker 1: in France. So I just keep talking. 334 00:22:59,456 --> 00:23:01,316 Speaker 6: I don't know what the problem is with this thing, 335 00:23:01,336 --> 00:23:02,946 Speaker 6: but I use it all the time. I thought maybe 336 00:23:02,966 --> 00:23:05,126 Speaker 6: this was made available for foreigners or something. So he 337 00:23:05,406 --> 00:23:06,546 Speaker 6: made up all sorts of stories. 338 00:23:07,566 --> 00:23:11,226 Speaker 1: The French police took Mickey to a damp stone prison 339 00:23:11,546 --> 00:23:14,206 Speaker 1: known by locals as as Villa Chagrin. 340 00:23:16,526 --> 00:23:19,596 Speaker 6: They took him to jail in Bayan, where he was 341 00:23:19,636 --> 00:23:24,376 Speaker 6: for several months. And when they were there, the police 342 00:23:24,436 --> 00:23:27,896 Speaker 6: discovered that he was wanted by Interpol and that there 343 00:23:27,936 --> 00:23:32,156 Speaker 6: was an international arrest warrant out from the United States, 344 00:23:32,176 --> 00:23:32,996 Speaker 6: from California. 345 00:23:34,226 --> 00:23:37,906 Speaker 1: According to Bob, they found eight fake passports with different 346 00:23:37,946 --> 00:23:41,616 Speaker 1: names on them. Mickey no longer had a valid passport, 347 00:23:41,916 --> 00:23:44,966 Speaker 1: and authorities in France gave him a choice. Go back 348 00:23:45,026 --> 00:23:47,906 Speaker 1: to the United States and deal with the outstanding warrants, 349 00:23:48,506 --> 00:23:50,726 Speaker 1: or go to another country of his choice. 350 00:23:51,986 --> 00:23:56,416 Speaker 4: He made the choice. As far as I know, Miklos 351 00:23:56,556 --> 00:24:00,096 Speaker 4: convinced him to come back, made some suggestion that get 352 00:24:00,116 --> 00:24:02,556 Speaker 4: it over with now, and it'll be okay. 353 00:24:03,776 --> 00:24:07,296 Speaker 1: Mickey, after consulting some lawyers for the Rothschilds who were 354 00:24:07,336 --> 00:24:12,466 Speaker 1: helping out, decided to surrender himself. Miklos sent him a 355 00:24:12,516 --> 00:24:18,126 Speaker 1: first-class ticket. He made a reservation on Air France Flight 356 00:24:18,126 --> 00:24:22,386 Speaker 1: 003 nonstop from Paris to LAX. A U.S. Marshal was 357 00:24:22,446 --> 00:24:26,816 Speaker 1: dispatched to meet him. The U.S. Marshal watched as every 358 00:24:26,976 --> 00:24:32,716 Speaker 1: single passenger got off that plane, and Mickey wasn't there. 359 00:24:35,846 --> 00:24:39,186 Speaker 1: A few days later, the FBI's man in Paris sent 360 00:24:39,226 --> 00:24:42,976 Speaker 1: a telex to the director of the FBI. Quote, It 361 00:24:42,996 --> 00:24:48,096 Speaker 1: would appear that Dora, best described as a quintessential, albeit aging, 362 00:24:48,176 --> 00:24:51,496 Speaker 1: boy of summer on a perennial quest for the legendary 363 00:24:51,576 --> 00:24:55,546 Speaker 1: ninth wave, may have returned to Biarritz or some other 364 00:24:55,586 --> 00:24:59,366 Speaker 1: surfing site instead of to Los Angeles as originally planned, 365 00:24:59,846 --> 00:25:04,386 Speaker 1: given his surf compulsion and legendary lack of responsibility. 366 00:25:04,406 --> 00:25:05,526 Speaker 5: Unquote. 367 00:25:06,626 --> 00:25:10,046 Speaker 1: A short time later, the FBI learned, Mickey had booked 368 00:25:10,246 --> 00:25:16,256 Speaker 1: a new flight. The Bureau telex noted, quote, Paris, aware 369 00:25:16,316 --> 00:25:22,876 Speaker 1: of Dora's hedonic pilgrimage, magniloquently described heretofore, realized he may 370 00:25:23,036 --> 00:25:29,936 Speaker 1: alter his plans, unquote. Then the FBI lost track of him. 371 00:25:31,656 --> 00:25:38,256 Speaker 1: The next Bureau communication read, quote, Paris assumes scintillating Sandor 372 00:25:38,476 --> 00:25:44,776 Speaker 1: has surfed into the sunset and sunk, unquote. Sandor was 373 00:25:44,856 --> 00:25:48,916 Speaker 1: Mickey's middle name. The FBI's man in Paris was calling 374 00:25:48,976 --> 00:25:54,356 Speaker 1: him scintillating Sandor, an aging boy of summer with a 375 00:25:54,436 --> 00:25:58,726 Speaker 1: legendary lack of responsibility on a quest for the ninth wave. 376 00:25:59,926 --> 00:26:03,636 Speaker 1: What is this guy? His handler? He sounds more like 377 00:26:03,696 --> 00:26:07,266 Speaker 1: a press agent than an FBI agent. And why is 378 00:26:07,286 --> 00:26:12,256 Speaker 1: he so invested in Mickey's persona and his quest? Maybe 379 00:26:12,316 --> 00:26:17,436 Speaker 1: Mickey was working for the FBI. Either way, they'd lost him. 380 00:26:18,496 --> 00:26:34,066 Speaker 1: Mickey was in the wind. Mickey Dora didn't surf into 381 00:26:34,086 --> 00:26:38,006 Speaker 1: the sunset and sink, though he probably would have loved to. 382 00:26:39,226 --> 00:26:42,606 Speaker 1: It took another two weeks, but Mickey did eventually arrive 383 00:26:42,676 --> 00:26:47,596 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles on September 1, 1981. He was arrested 384 00:26:47,656 --> 00:26:50,776 Speaker 1: by an FBI agent who took him to a medium-security 385 00:26:50,876 --> 00:26:54,126 Speaker 1: federal prison at Terminal Island. He was 47 years old. 386 00:26:57,536 --> 00:26:59,836 Speaker 1: The first thing Mickey had to do was go up 387 00:26:59,886 --> 00:27:03,866 Speaker 1: to Mono County and face the judge. He was sentenced 388 00:27:03,926 --> 00:27:07,806 Speaker 1: to three years in state prison, suspended. He'd need to 389 00:27:07,866 --> 00:27:11,786 Speaker 1: serve less than six months in county jail. In the 390 00:27:11,826 --> 00:27:16,796 Speaker 1: Passport case, the FBI's handwriting analysts failed to match Mickey's 391 00:27:16,816 --> 00:27:21,176 Speaker 1: sample with the writing on the Richard Austin Roche Jr. application. 392 00:27:22,096 --> 00:27:26,216 Speaker 1: The fingerprint analysis failed, too, so the case was dropped. 393 00:27:26,806 --> 00:27:31,326 Speaker 1: due to insufficient evidence. That just left the charge over 394 00:27:31,376 --> 00:27:34,776 Speaker 1: the alleged diners club fraud, which had been whittled down 395 00:27:34,876 --> 00:27:39,436 Speaker 1: to almost nothing. That case was being heard at a 396 00:27:39,496 --> 00:27:44,016 Speaker 1: federal court in Denver. Mickey's lawyer, a public defender, later 397 00:27:44,056 --> 00:27:48,016 Speaker 1: represented Terry Nichols, a conspirator in the Oklahoma City bombing. 398 00:27:49,136 --> 00:27:53,256 Speaker 4: Essentially, the charge was reduced to throwing away your own mail. 399 00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:57,616 Speaker 1: Mickey's biographer, David Renson, Diners. 400 00:27:57,396 --> 00:28:02,196 Speaker 4: Club sends you a bill. You don't pay it. And 401 00:28:02,436 --> 00:28:04,596 Speaker 4: if you don't pay it or don't open it or 402 00:28:04,636 --> 00:28:07,576 Speaker 4: don't receive it, it's sent back to Diners Club. But 403 00:28:07,636 --> 00:28:10,756 Speaker 4: you throw it in the garbage. So you've thrown away 404 00:28:10,776 --> 00:28:16,436 Speaker 4: the mail and interfered with... That's what he ultimately got 405 00:28:16,496 --> 00:28:16,986 Speaker 4: nailed on. 406 00:28:18,576 --> 00:28:21,686 Speaker 1: For throwing away his own mail... the judge in Denver 407 00:28:21,746 --> 00:28:26,586 Speaker 1: sentenced Mickey to approximately six months at Lompoc, a low-security 408 00:28:26,716 --> 00:28:31,776 Speaker 1: federal facility in California. And the Diners Club auctioned off 409 00:28:31,816 --> 00:28:35,576 Speaker 1: the $ 100, 000 worth of loot in his storage facility in 410 00:28:35,636 --> 00:28:40,356 Speaker 1: New Zealand. Among the auctioned items, according to Renson's book, 411 00:28:40,636 --> 00:28:44,776 Speaker 1: there were six trunks full of tuxedos, cashmere, a pink 412 00:28:44,896 --> 00:28:48,646 Speaker 1: paisley silk sleeping bag, the street sign from the corner 413 00:28:48,706 --> 00:28:52,356 Speaker 1: of Hollywood and Vine, and the SS leather trench coat. 414 00:28:53,536 --> 00:28:57,046 Speaker 1: A Maori guy named Mickey bought all of Mickey's clothes. 415 00:28:59,726 --> 00:29:02,466 Speaker 1: Throughout all this, no matter what he told the judges, 416 00:29:02,906 --> 00:29:07,096 Speaker 1: Mickey insisted that he was innocent. Someone had broken into 417 00:29:07,136 --> 00:29:09,696 Speaker 1: his house and stolen his credit card, leading to all 418 00:29:09,736 --> 00:29:14,136 Speaker 1: those charges. Don Wilson had framed him on the passport fraud. 419 00:29:14,996 --> 00:29:18,436 Speaker 1: He'd returned the ski equipment to the shop. He couldn't 420 00:29:18,476 --> 00:29:22,556 Speaker 1: pay restitution because of an accident. He had the probation 421 00:29:22,616 --> 00:29:28,386 Speaker 1: officer's permission to go to Europe. He had amnesia and hypoglycemia. 422 00:29:30,046 --> 00:29:34,506 Speaker 1: Mickey didn't feel sorry. Not then, not ever. Not that 423 00:29:34,546 --> 00:29:38,046 Speaker 1: he would admit. But when he wasn't saying he didn't 424 00:29:38,106 --> 00:29:43,836 Speaker 1: do it, he was bragging about his accomplishments. He'd write, quote, 425 00:29:44,216 --> 00:29:48,286 Speaker 1: from 1974 to 1981, I covered well over 200,000 miles 426 00:29:49,786 --> 00:29:54,456 Speaker 1: over four continents, 90% of the time reconnoitering the coastal 427 00:29:54,556 --> 00:30:00,236 Speaker 1: areas of India, Africa, the Far East, Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand, 428 00:30:00,576 --> 00:30:05,116 Speaker 1: South America, and hundreds of islands. Only in Europe did 429 00:30:05,196 --> 00:30:10,456 Speaker 1: Interpol or the Only after five passports and millions of 430 00:30:10,516 --> 00:30:13,696 Speaker 1: taxpayer dollars wasted on the hunt did I, with a 431 00:30:13,756 --> 00:30:17,696 Speaker 1: gun pointed at my head, volunteer to return to the USA, 432 00:30:18,296 --> 00:30:23,136 Speaker 1: just visiting, thanks. Thus ending the most extraordinary surfing odyssey 433 00:30:23,276 --> 00:30:30,496 Speaker 1: in the history of mankind. While Mickey was waiting to 434 00:30:30,516 --> 00:30:33,196 Speaker 1: begin serving his time, he was sent to a prison 435 00:30:33,236 --> 00:30:40,686 Speaker 1: medical facility for a psychiatric evaluation. At his dining room table, 436 00:30:40,986 --> 00:30:43,186 Speaker 1: David pulls a page out of Mickey's file. 437 00:30:44,446 --> 00:30:47,426 Speaker 4: Subject is alert and displays some inner tension during the interview, 438 00:30:47,526 --> 00:30:52,086 Speaker 4: but he remains composed and in good contact. He has 439 00:30:52,126 --> 00:30:55,416 Speaker 4: no health complaints except for asthmatic condition. He states he 440 00:30:55,476 --> 00:30:57,976 Speaker 4: has to be careful and neither smokes nor drinks, which 441 00:30:58,016 --> 00:31:00,296 Speaker 4: I think is true. He states the only drugs he 442 00:31:00,376 --> 00:31:05,116 Speaker 4: uses are prescription plus enormous amounts of health vitamins. You know, yeah, 443 00:31:05,136 --> 00:31:08,496 Speaker 4: it sounds like Mickey. He's defensive in talking about his arrest, 444 00:31:08,576 --> 00:31:11,796 Speaker 4: becomes agitated when he's asked about the diner's club matter. 445 00:31:12,516 --> 00:31:14,866 Speaker 4: He denies he's involved in that as an upset because 446 00:31:14,906 --> 00:31:17,666 Speaker 4: of his personal property was confiscated to pay off the 447 00:31:17,686 --> 00:31:21,906 Speaker 4: diner's club charges. It appears he's shown some asocial behavior 448 00:31:21,926 --> 00:31:26,036 Speaker 4: in the past, unwilling to admit responsibility. It does appear 449 00:31:26,316 --> 00:31:28,216 Speaker 4: at the present time he has now developed a sense 450 00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:31,056 Speaker 4: of conscience. He's willing to at least face the music 451 00:31:31,076 --> 00:31:32,076 Speaker 4: and get things straightened out. 452 00:31:33,626 --> 00:31:38,076 Speaker 1: The psychologist noted Mickey's hang-dog expression and gave him a 453 00:31:38,116 --> 00:31:41,416 Speaker 1: diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. 454 00:31:41,436 --> 00:31:48,936 Speaker 4: Narcissistic personality. Well, okay, that's bandied about a lot these days. 455 00:31:49,076 --> 00:31:53,496 Speaker 4: I'm not sure what that is. But if it's care 456 00:31:53,556 --> 00:31:58,076 Speaker 4: only about yourself and see people's extension of yourself and 457 00:31:59,336 --> 00:32:01,556 Speaker 4: know how to wind them around your finger when you 458 00:32:01,576 --> 00:32:03,616 Speaker 4: need to help yourself, Okay. 459 00:32:06,076 --> 00:32:08,346 Speaker 1: While he was at the prison medical facility for his 460 00:32:08,386 --> 00:32:11,626 Speaker 1: psych evaluation, Mickey ran into someone he'd known back in 461 00:32:11,646 --> 00:32:19,876 Speaker 1: the 60s, another notorious Malibu character, Charles Manson. FBI file, 462 00:32:19,876 --> 00:32:25,996 Speaker 1: 156 pages, to Dora's 876. This is a story that 463 00:32:26,016 --> 00:32:28,976 Speaker 1: he told us here in France later, and it's been 464 00:32:29,016 --> 00:32:29,896 Speaker 1: told so many times. 465 00:32:30,356 --> 00:32:32,016 Speaker 6: Is it true? Is it not true? I don't know, 466 00:32:32,036 --> 00:32:33,126 Speaker 6: but he told it to everybody. 467 00:32:34,216 --> 00:32:36,216 Speaker 1: Bob Simpson, the expat lawyer. 468 00:32:36,236 --> 00:32:40,676 Speaker 6: He said, this man came over and talked to me 469 00:32:40,696 --> 00:32:43,836 Speaker 6: and he said, I want to thank you for that 470 00:32:43,916 --> 00:32:45,956 Speaker 6: tip you gave me. And Mickey said, what are you 471 00:32:46,016 --> 00:32:50,846 Speaker 6: talking about? And he said, well, you know, I'm Charles Manson. And, 472 00:32:51,166 --> 00:32:53,166 Speaker 6: you know, back in the day when you were doing 473 00:32:53,206 --> 00:32:58,406 Speaker 6: your little thefts in Los Angeles areas, the celebrity parties 474 00:32:58,446 --> 00:33:01,056 Speaker 6: with your girlfriends, You gave me a tip to go 475 00:33:01,096 --> 00:33:02,936 Speaker 6: to one party, and I went there with my friends, 476 00:33:02,956 --> 00:33:04,756 Speaker 6: and we got a good heist. I just thank you. 477 00:33:04,796 --> 00:33:09,986 Speaker 6: Thanks for the tip. So Mickey says, okay, you're welcome. 478 00:33:10,466 --> 00:33:12,286 Speaker 6: But he didn't really want to have anything to do 479 00:33:12,306 --> 00:33:16,386 Speaker 6: with Charles Manson, and everybody saw that Charles Manson knew him. 480 00:33:16,506 --> 00:33:18,486 Speaker 6: So Mickey all of a sudden became the biggest star 481 00:33:18,526 --> 00:33:20,646 Speaker 6: in the prison, even more so than Charles Manson. 482 00:33:20,666 --> 00:33:21,626 Speaker 1: He said, I don't like this. 483 00:33:21,686 --> 00:33:23,506 Speaker 6: I need to get out of here. 484 00:33:25,906 --> 00:33:28,746 Speaker 1: While Mickey was serving his sentence, David started trying to 485 00:33:28,806 --> 00:33:30,626 Speaker 1: figure out how to get to him. 486 00:33:30,646 --> 00:33:36,006 Speaker 4: So I spent, you know, many months talking to people 487 00:33:36,086 --> 00:33:42,176 Speaker 4: who knew him, who liked him, who, according to Mickey later, 488 00:33:42,456 --> 00:33:43,236 Speaker 4: didn't like him. 489 00:33:44,096 --> 00:33:46,036 Speaker 1: But of course, he needed Mickey. 490 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:48,956 Speaker 4: So now my editor said, well, you've got to talk 491 00:33:48,976 --> 00:33:51,256 Speaker 4: to him. I said, you don't know Mickey. He goes, 492 00:33:51,276 --> 00:33:53,676 Speaker 4: you've got to talk to him until it's published. And 493 00:33:53,696 --> 00:33:55,846 Speaker 4: I found him. three days after he got out of 494 00:33:55,896 --> 00:33:58,096 Speaker 4: Lompoc Men's Penitentiary. 495 00:33:59,376 --> 00:34:01,956 Speaker 1: David had gotten to know some of Mickey's friends, and 496 00:34:01,976 --> 00:34:04,176 Speaker 1: he asked one of them to act as a go-between. 497 00:34:04,796 --> 00:34:07,636 Speaker 1: After months of back and forth, Mickey told David to 498 00:34:07,696 --> 00:34:10,556 Speaker 1: meet him in the library of a small community college 499 00:34:10,696 --> 00:34:15,776 Speaker 1: in Orange County. David didn't know what to expect. It 500 00:34:15,836 --> 00:34:16,416 Speaker 1: was May 1983. 501 00:34:16,396 --> 00:34:23,296 Speaker 4: You know, he had a wispy, beard goatee, looked disheveled. 502 00:34:23,456 --> 00:34:25,256 Speaker 4: He said, why have you taken an interest in me? 503 00:34:26,636 --> 00:34:30,126 Speaker 4: And I don't know, I probably should have been more 504 00:34:30,166 --> 00:34:33,486 Speaker 4: afraid or nervous about it, but I was, you know 505 00:34:33,506 --> 00:34:35,346 Speaker 4: how it is when you interview someone, you just sort 506 00:34:35,366 --> 00:34:37,666 Speaker 4: of click in. And I said, well, I've taken an 507 00:34:37,766 --> 00:34:39,366 Speaker 4: interest in you because where have you been? 508 00:34:40,526 --> 00:34:43,706 Speaker 1: What he remembers is that Mickey was angry at Miklos 509 00:34:44,506 --> 00:34:46,786 Speaker 1: for being the one who convinced him to return to 510 00:34:46,806 --> 00:34:48,726 Speaker 1: the U.S. and face his accusers. 511 00:34:49,956 --> 00:34:51,936 Speaker 4: In my interview, I said, you came back. And he goes, 512 00:34:52,026 --> 00:34:54,426 Speaker 4: I didn't want to come back. But he did come back, 513 00:34:54,526 --> 00:34:57,806 Speaker 4: and he had to stay in prison for a little while, 514 00:34:57,886 --> 00:34:59,886 Speaker 4: and that he felt was a betrayal. 515 00:35:00,706 --> 00:35:04,706 Speaker 1: Do you think he was changed by his experience in prison? 516 00:35:05,386 --> 00:35:08,506 Speaker 4: I do. I think he said, I'm never going back. 517 00:35:09,066 --> 00:35:11,876 Speaker 4: I'm not going to risk that stuff. I just, you know, 518 00:35:12,476 --> 00:35:14,096 Speaker 4: I just sensed a whole change in Mickey. 519 00:35:17,776 --> 00:35:21,526 Speaker 1: After prison, Mickey went back to Gittery, determined not to 520 00:35:21,586 --> 00:35:25,886 Speaker 1: repeat his mistakes. That meant no more funny business with 521 00:35:25,906 --> 00:35:30,706 Speaker 1: the credit cards. With no honest source of income, Mickey 522 00:35:30,766 --> 00:35:35,096 Speaker 1: seemed to be living hand-to-mouth. He got his van back, 523 00:35:35,456 --> 00:35:38,336 Speaker 1: but it was falling apart after years of being left 524 00:35:38,416 --> 00:35:42,796 Speaker 1: outside in the salt air. Mickey was showing where to. 525 00:35:43,736 --> 00:35:46,316 Speaker 1: According to Renson's book, he got tossed out of a 526 00:35:46,376 --> 00:35:49,746 Speaker 1: health club, for cleaning his clothes in the jacuzzi and 527 00:35:49,786 --> 00:35:54,806 Speaker 1: putting them in the sauna to dry. Da Cat, it seemed, 528 00:35:55,206 --> 00:36:00,696 Speaker 1: had used up all his lives. But then one day, 529 00:36:01,036 --> 00:36:03,496 Speaker 1: as Mickey was lying in his van in a youth 530 00:36:03,536 --> 00:36:06,516 Speaker 1: hostel parking lot, there was a knock at the door. 531 00:36:07,956 --> 00:36:12,256 Speaker 1: It was someone from the surf apparel company Quicksilver. They 532 00:36:12,276 --> 00:36:16,346 Speaker 1: were offering a lifeline. an entree to the world of 533 00:36:16,406 --> 00:36:21,626 Speaker 1: professional surfing and the professional surfers he would have once despised. 534 00:36:23,446 --> 00:36:28,166 Speaker 1: Mickey had relentlessly mocked the surf industry for years, but 535 00:36:28,226 --> 00:36:32,566 Speaker 1: this time, Mickey was in no position to be choosy. 536 00:36:37,436 --> 00:36:41,476 Speaker 1: Next time on Lost Tales, Mickey's Being Recorded. 537 00:36:45,126 --> 00:36:49,066 Speaker 8: I'm in Chile, on the coastline in a little town 538 00:36:49,106 --> 00:36:55,306 Speaker 8: called Pichilimo. I'm in a little one-bedroom hotel room. It's 539 00:36:55,406 --> 00:37:00,606 Speaker 8: Niki Dora. Enter Niki Dora. 540 00:37:08,016 --> 00:37:16,606 Speaker 1: That's next in Episode 11, Writing on the Wall. Lost 541 00:37:16,646 --> 00:37:20,016 Speaker 1: Hills is written and reported by me, Dana Goodyear. It's 542 00:37:20,096 --> 00:37:23,256 Speaker 1: created by me and Ben Adair and produced by Western 543 00:37:23,296 --> 00:37:27,196 Speaker 1: Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you 544 00:37:27,236 --> 00:37:31,636 Speaker 1: can binge the entire season right now ad-free. Find Pushkin 545 00:37:31,676 --> 00:37:34,646 Speaker 1: Plus on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts 546 00:37:34,806 --> 00:37:35,526 Speaker 1: or at pushkin.fm.