1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ. Holmes present Killer Thriller with your 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: host Elisa Donovan. 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: Today's story is one that is almost impossible to process 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: because it didn't just happen in a moment. It unfolded 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: over years. In nineteen seventy two, a seven year old 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: boy named Stephen Stainer was kidnapped walking home from school. 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: He was held captive for seven years, raised under a 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: different name, and told his family had given him away. 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 2: And then at fourteen, he did something almost unimaginable. He 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: rescued another child and walked into a police station to 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: tell the truth. It became one of the most talked 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: about cases of its time, and then a two part 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: NBC mini series that millions of people watched. At the 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: center of that was a teenage actor being into something 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: incredibly heavy and very real. Today I am joined by 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: Korn Nebick, who played Stephen, and I know my first 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: name is Stephen, a role people still remember decades later. Korin, 19 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with me today. 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: He yes, it's my pleasure. Jasi Ship, thank you. 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 4: A little noise in the backg I'm at an editing 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 4: studio right now, working on a film that I just 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 4: finished directing. 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: Oh amazing, Okay, well, we are definitely going to talk 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: about that later. 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: We are here to talk about this. 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: I you know, I since we've been doing this podcast, 28 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: we obviously talk about very traumatic and tragic things that 29 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: have happened. This film and this case and this story. 30 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: I just like, I just I can't get past it. 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: It's so disturbing. When you first heard about this, you know, 32 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: when you learned this was a true story. What was 33 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: your reaction to what happened to Stephen? Given how young 34 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: you were yourself, you were essentially the same age as 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: he was when he escaped. 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 4: Well, I remember, you know, growing up in the in 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 4: the late seventies, early eighties, you know, the. 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: There was a you know, quite a large. 39 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 4: Public push in in the in the abduction category. You 40 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 4: could say, you know, there was a lot of stuff 41 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 4: going on at school, you know, stranger danger type stuff, 42 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 4: and like, you know, don't don't walk up to cars 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 4: people who don't know. There's a lot of stuff back 44 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 4: then that I recall when I was quite young and 45 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 4: and when this opportunity presented itself to be a part 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 4: of the miniseries based on the true story. From a 47 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 4: dramatic standpoint, it was it was very daunting. It was 48 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 4: very uncomfortable to bring some of those scenes to life, know, 49 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 4: but I found that actually it was that uncomfortableness they 50 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 4: kind of got me the job, to be honest, because 51 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 4: I had to audition for the scene when Stephen was 52 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 4: on the stand during the trial and do those scenes, 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 4: and the dialogue itself was so unbelievably uncomfortable even to 54 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 4: be doing that. That played into naturally an uncomfortable performance talking. 55 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: About it, and that was really that That was the 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: scene that got me the job. 57 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 4: But then I ended up working with an acting teacher 58 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 4: named John Lynn, an old school actor from New York 59 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 4: and stuff, and I worked with him in the lead 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 4: up about maybe two three weeks in the lead up 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 4: to the principal photography starting, and broke down. The entire 62 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 4: script went overseen by scene, you know, addressed all of 63 00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 4: the emotional conditions that arose, and so I was extremely 64 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 4: well prepared by the time I walked on set, and 65 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 4: it made it made the actual filming of all of 66 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 4: that a lot less uncomfortable, or I wouldn't say traumatic, 67 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 4: but you know, dramatic in a way where it might 68 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 4: be hard to shake it off, you know, you go home, 69 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 4: but because of the preparation, it was much easier for me. 70 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 4: I think the interesting thing was meeting Stephen in person 71 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: and his family. 72 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: And having an opportunity to. 73 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 4: Shake his hand and see what a great individual he 74 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 4: had become in the face of everything that he went through, 75 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 4: Because any lesser person who knows what type of character 76 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 4: they would have adopted after all of. 77 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: That in life. 78 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: Did they come to set or how did you first 79 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: meet him? 80 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 4: They came to set a couple of times, and then 81 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: he was also was a background artist in one of 82 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 4: the scenes when when Stephen Stainer is being brought home, 83 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 4: he's one of the police officers that walks him up 84 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 4: to his house, which you know, a hitchcocky in moment, 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 4: but for sure, you know, having him around set was 86 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 4: was inspiring because he survived such a traumatic and uh 87 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 4: and potentially life altering, unchangeable event or event over such 88 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 4: a long period of time that the likelihood of him 89 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: growing up to be a very well rounded, responsible, you know, 90 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 4: a wonderful parent, wonderful husband, all of that, the chances 91 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 4: of that became very slim right right. 92 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: That's what I'm so blown away by that. He you 93 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: can see in his face in the the footage, the 94 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: real footage, that the joy. I mean, you can certainly 95 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 2: see the pain and the trauma that he's been through, 96 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 2: but there's also this like a real light inside of 97 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: this person that I'm just so blown away by that 98 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 2: that he's able to and especially you know, I read 99 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: and they you cover this in the movie too, in 100 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: the mini series too, that they he had no therapy, 101 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: they didn't really think it was necessary. And I read 102 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: that he said just kind of talking to journalists helps, 103 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: And how do you I just feel like things so 104 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: much has changed since then, clearly, But what are your 105 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 2: thoughts on that in terms of how he was able 106 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: to move. 107 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 4: Gad to me, I have no idea, That's what I'm saying. 108 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 4: It's a phenomenon. I have no idea how he managed 109 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 4: to process that at such a young age and. 110 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 3: Continue to have. 111 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 4: For all intents and purposes, a very normal, you know 112 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 4: life with his with his wife and kids, and his 113 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 4: his desire to become a law officer, and uh, you know, 114 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 4: him going through all of the the psychological things that 115 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 4: he would have that he was having to go through 116 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 4: in order to become a law enforcement officer because of 117 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 4: his history. And I mean, you know, he had goals 118 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 4: set for himself that uh that had he not been 119 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 4: taken from this world by a trunk driver on his motorcycle, 120 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 4: you know, a drunk driver hit him while he was 121 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 4: on his motorcycle and killed him. So a terrible, tragic, 122 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 4: unfortunate into to an already tragic life. But his, his 123 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 4: the life that he lived from the time that he 124 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 4: came home to the time of that accident was very 125 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 4: admirable and uh and awe inspiring life. 126 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: For for what he went through. 127 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 4: I mean, what a what an incredible person he he was. 128 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: And yeah, and and and his you know, from what 129 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 4: I understand, you know, his kids and everything are very well, 130 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 4: you know, are doing great as. 131 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: Well as it. And yeah, did you. 132 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: When you were shooting the series, did you have a 133 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: real understanding of the details of the case or were 134 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: you really just sticking to what was in the actual 135 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: script Because you were, again so young, it's hard to 136 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: comprehend that stuff. You know, I have a thirteen year 137 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: old daughter right now, and I think about this and 138 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: go Jesus, like, how. 139 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: How do you. 140 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, they gave me. 141 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 4: I mean, besides the script, which was extremely detailed and 142 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 4: very well written and historically accurate and. 143 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: Everything, they gave a huge binder of news. 144 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: Articles they did. 145 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a massive binder. There was just article 146 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: after article after article, and you know, there was a 147 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 4: very very good understanding of the depth of this particular 148 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 4: story and how wide reaching it was, and the attention 149 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 4: that it necessarily brought to a bizarre epidemic that still 150 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 4: happens to this day, and that's the kidnapping and disappearance 151 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 4: of children. That is, when you look at the real numbers, 152 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 4: even in twenty twenty six, when you look at the 153 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 4: real numbers of young kids who disappear off the streets 154 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: and are never found, it's absolutely jaw dropping. I mean, 155 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 4: you know, in the fifties, sixties of thousands per year 156 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 4: or whatever, you know. 157 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: It's wow. 158 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: I didn't know that crazy number. 159 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 4: It's a crazy number if you look it up. I 160 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 4: might even be on the low end of it, but 161 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 4: it's a staggering number. 162 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: There's so much to this in terms of like the 163 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: age he was and those years seven to fourteen, really 164 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: trying to to understand where he was you know, and 165 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: people always ask these questions in many of these sort 166 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: of kidnapping situations of why didn't they leave and why 167 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: didn't they. 168 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: And you know, to me, it's like, well, it wasn't 169 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: an option. 170 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: They didn't perceive it as one, right, and so, but 171 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 2: what do you think was the shift then? When the 172 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 2: little boy Timmy, he is kidnapped and essentially brought into 173 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: the home as Stevens quote, new little brother. Why do 174 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: you think that was such a pivotal shift for Stephen? 175 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: Where he went I have to escape now. 176 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 4: Well, I mean from what it says in the story, 177 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 4: and I think from a lot of what he himself 178 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 4: said in interviews, basically was that he had been to 179 00:10:54,880 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 4: a greater or lesser degree brainwashed to believe that Parnell 180 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 4: was his adopted father, that he had been adopted legally 181 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 4: by him, and after years and years of that, he 182 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 4: came to, for the most part, believe it to be true, 183 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 4: but with a window of possibility. 184 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 3: That something was off about it. 185 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 4: And so when he brought home that new kid, he 186 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 4: saw the grooming process of that kid start occurring exactly. 187 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: How he recalled it when he was young. 188 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 4: And him using the same lies the same you know things, 189 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 4: And that's when it dawned on, even for such a 190 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 4: young age, that's when it dawned on Stephen Stainer that 191 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 4: his whole entire life was a lie, and that this 192 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 4: kid's fate was going to be the same fate of 193 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 4: his own, and again mustered the spiritual fortitude to get 194 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: that kid in the dead of night and secret him 195 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 4: away away from Barnell's house to the nearest police station, 196 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 4: where fortunately he himself too was picked up. After dropping 197 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 4: the you know him off and running away, they caught 198 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 4: him not too far away, and fortunately they did, because 199 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 4: if he had disappeared onto the streets and had never 200 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 4: been seen again and had just become a street and 201 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 4: you know, that could have been another. 202 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: Very different and right. 203 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that so thinking about that scene in the 204 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: in the mini series when you know, there's this famous 205 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: statement where he says, I know my He's essentially saying, 206 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: the only thing I know about myself for sure is 207 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: what my real first name is. And I know for 208 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: sure my name is Stephen. My first name is Stephen. 209 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: What do you remember about shooting that? Were you aware 210 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: of that? How kind of meaningful that was? 211 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: Yes, of course, Yeah, that was I mean, that was 212 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 4: the whole I mean, it was the title of the 213 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 4: of the documentary as well, you know. Uh, and that 214 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 4: line was, you know, a direct quote from from the 215 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 4: historical truth of it. So that was, you know, that 216 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 4: was basically the iconic moment of transition between I'm this 217 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 4: you know, programmed kidnapped victim to I'm this real person 218 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 4: with a real life, with a real family somewhere else. 219 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: You know, So coming home, both in the miniseries as 220 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: well as in sort of people's belief in life. You know, 221 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: coming home is supposed to be the happy ending, right, 222 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: It's what everybody and then you think, oh, everything ends 223 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: well now, But really that's sort of just the beginning 224 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 2: of a whole new set of you. 225 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: Know, challenges to go through. Well, what what stood out to. 226 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 2: You the most about that transition, right of coming back 227 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: to real life for him? 228 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 4: I mean I can only imagine what the reality of 229 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 4: that transition was for him and how peculiar and uncomfortable 230 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 4: it must have been, especially with all the media attention 231 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 4: around him as well. But you know, I think that 232 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 4: the real transition for him started when he got his 233 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 4: girlfriend pregnant at a very young age. And the idea 234 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 4: of being a father, of being a real father, you know, 235 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 4: and and protecting his kids became such a bigger and 236 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 4: more important idea than anything else that happened. I think 237 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 4: that probably was the big transitional point into young adulthood 238 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 4: at such a at such a tender age, after such. 239 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 3: A horrible life experience. 240 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that. Stephen said, though, one of the 241 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: things that stuck out to him about the mini series 242 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: is that they portrayed him as being disrespectful to his parents, 243 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: that kind of acting out when he came back of 244 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 2: trying to uh figure out how to be a teenager 245 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: without with new rules where he could do anything with 246 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: when he was with Parnell. What do you what do 247 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: you make of that difference? And do you know why 248 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: that decision was made to put it in the script 249 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: that way? 250 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: Yes, that I have no idea. 251 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 4: I would probably just say that that taking uh maybe 252 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 4: that maybe having that I won't I do not want 253 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 4: to call it easy of a transition back into the 254 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 4: world or anything. But but perhaps they just had creative 255 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 4: license and decided that it needed a little bit more, 256 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 4: or maybe it was based on a couple of things 257 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 4: that happened one or two things that happened indn't equal 258 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 4: years of you know, of behavior or anything. But but 259 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 4: but you know that said again, how he made it 260 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 4: through it all with his head intact was right, incredible 261 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 4: part of it. 262 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost seems to me like that would be obviously, 263 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: not having gone through anything remotely like this myself, that 264 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: would seem to be like the logical way that one 265 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: might respond. And it almost speaks to how it's such 266 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: an an impossible experience for anyone to really understand who 267 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 2: has not gone through it. 268 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 3: You know. 269 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: I think that's one of the those you know, where 270 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 2: does the creative license come? We talk about that a lot, 271 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 2: you know, where you need to get the story across, 272 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 2: and you're still you know, maintaining the emotional truth of it, 273 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: I suppose. And sure, yeah, did you feel any kind 274 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 2: of I mean, it's a silly question you're going to say, 275 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: of course I did. But did playing somebody who was 276 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: very much alive and very much present in the process, 277 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: did you how did that impact your Did you feel 278 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: that responsibility as such a young person? 279 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: Did you understand that. 280 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 3: Not necessarily? 281 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that they were I think that 282 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 4: that the portrayal of the overall story and the characters 283 00:17:53,200 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 4: involved were very well done and respectful to everybody. The 284 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 4: first time I played a character of a person who. 285 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 3: Really existed and was still alive was in the movie. 286 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 4: Was the first film I ever did was the movie 287 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 4: Tucker frances Poort Coppola film, playing Jeff bridges On Noble, 288 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: and all of the kids, the Noble, the Tucker kids, Preston, 289 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,239 Speaker 4: Tucker's kids were all still you know, well alive at 290 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 4: the filmed that, and they all. 291 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: Came down to set and everything. 292 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 4: And I got to, you know, meet the you know, 293 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 4: the fifty something Yrold version of myself. 294 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: But well yeah, yeah, but. 295 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 4: But but that said, you know, I playing a real 296 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 4: life character. Wasn't that that didn't really equate to me 297 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 4: that from an artistic standpoint of what my job was. 298 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: Do you think it would be different today? 299 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 2: Like we have a different approach about It's a lot 300 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 2: more normalized to talk about challenge and grief and sexual abuse. 301 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: And you know, I think in particular, it seemed like 302 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 2: they really didn't want. 303 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: To talk about the abuse specifically. 304 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, why would anybody at the end of the day, 305 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, that's for special circumstances and whatnot 306 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 4: unless speaking about it publicly and openly as part of 307 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 4: your healing process, you know, which is fine, but also 308 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 4: a family. 309 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 3: That really. 310 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 4: When you get that much media attention out of nowhere, 311 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 4: you know, and you're just like brown House kicked to 312 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 4: the head with camera crews and interest in media interests 313 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: and people around your house and journalists and look, you 314 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 4: lose and you lose all of that sense of privacy 315 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 4: while something so tragic and unfortunate is being processed. I 316 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 4: can only imagine what that would be like and how 317 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 4: you would just want to be like, no, we don't 318 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 4: want to just not talk about that. 319 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: We just don't want to talk period, you know. 320 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: Right, right, So, the the fact that Parnell only served 321 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: five years for this crime is something I don't even 322 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: know how to process at all. I find it utterly despicable. 323 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: What was your reaction when you learned that? 324 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's unfortunately, you know that that is 325 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 4: the tip of the iceberg for that that kind of uh, 326 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 4: injustice for victims, there's you know, certain states or whatever, 327 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 4: there's certain statutes, there certain statutes of limitations and weird things, 328 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 4: and there's there's all these all these bizarre kind of 329 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 4: legal loopholes that that that these kind of incidents can 330 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 4: fall into that that don't make any sense whatsoever to 331 00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 4: the rational mind. 332 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: And uh and well said, well said. 333 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 4: And unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately, this is just the again, the 334 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 4: tip of the iceberg on these kinds of miscarriages of 335 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 4: justice all across the US and in probably tens of 336 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 4: thousands of cases over the past decades. 337 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as soon as he was released and 338 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: then he abducted another child and then tried to buy 339 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: another child, like within whatever a small amount of time. 340 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: I mean, were you following that, did you? Were you 341 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 2: aware of that? 342 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 4: I was aware of some of it, you know, not 343 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 4: all of it, but I was aware. 344 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 3: Of some of it. I was aware of more of 345 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 3: it many years later. 346 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 4: Than I was kind of at the time, you know, 347 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 4: track because once uh, once Stephen saying or unfortunately passed away. Yeah, 348 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 4: the the attention sort of passed away with him in 349 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 4: a sense, you know. 350 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 2: So I had heard either either I read this or 351 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: I might have heard you say it. And I watched 352 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: the documentary that just came out as well, which is 353 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: pretty oh yeah, heartbreaking, and in it it's a very 354 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: unique series. 355 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: But that you that he passed away the day before 356 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: the Emmys, Is that correct? 357 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, the night before is when the accident happened, when 358 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 4: he was hit by the driver. And uh and you. 359 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: Know, Lonesome Dove cleaned house that year, if I recall. 360 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 4: But we were nominated in a number of categories, I 361 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 4: think three to five categories, possibly at least three. But 362 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 4: but we didn't take home anything, you know, we really, 363 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 4: all of us collectively, the different departments that were nominated, 364 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 4: we just we just wanted to give a shout out 365 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 4: and thanks to to to Stephen saying or his memory 366 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 4: and all of that was more important than winning anything. 367 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 3: Sure, it was being able. 368 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 4: To spotlight his passing, which was so unbelievably you. 369 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 3: Know, tragic. 370 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember hearing about it? How did you 371 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: hear about it? 372 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 3: Oh? 373 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 4: Of course, Oh, I mean it was I don't recall. 374 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 4: I know that it was that it was my mom 375 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 4: who told me about it very shortly after it either 376 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 4: made the news or came through other channels to us 377 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 4: from you know, other people in the industry who may 378 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 4: have heard about it, you know, early on, But I 379 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 4: didn't hear about it until the day after it happened, 380 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 4: of course. 381 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. 382 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: And also information didn't didn't, you know, come through quite 383 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 2: as immediately as. 384 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 3: It does now, Yeah, exactly, which. 385 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: Is sort of I wish it was like that. 386 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: Was there anything in the script specifically that that has 387 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: stayed with you till now? You know, something that kind 388 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: of comes back through your consciousness from time to time. 389 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 4: I mean, I would say kind of the whole experience, 390 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 4: you know, I just recall what's called, you know, honey wagons, 391 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 4: these these wagons for all the actors, where each one 392 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 4: has your own kind of little horse stall. 393 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good description, no, horsetall. 394 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh, I just recall a lot of time 395 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 4: in between scenes because my character, you know, Steven Sain 396 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 4: are also smoked in that in in that as well 397 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 4: at a young age of that, and we had these 398 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 4: these herbal cigarettes that. 399 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 3: You know, that I had to smoke. 400 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 4: They weren't real tobacco, they were disgusting. But what I 401 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 4: would practice. I'd be over practicing smoking them and stuff, 402 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 4: sitting outside my trailer, and I just it's it's odd 403 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 4: because those kind of memories thinking, just sitting there things 404 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 4: thinking and I'm like feeling that rebellion, you know, that 405 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: they were, that they were insinuating he had during his 406 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 4: his teenage years, for a brief time that it was 407 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 4: palpable just in that activity alone. You know, I'm on set, 408 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 4: I'm smoking up, I'm smoking a cigarette. 409 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: No one can say anything. 410 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 4: You know, it was you know, it's sort of like 411 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 4: you know, I felt a lot of those moments too. 412 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 4: And also I knew that I was part of something 413 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 4: that was much, much, much much bigger than me or 414 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 4: my performance, or the miniseries or anything else. So that 415 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 4: was you know, I knew that it was going to 416 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 4: have a certain amount of success as a mini series, 417 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 4: but certainly not the amount of success that it did have. 418 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 3: That that was that was pretty pretty wild. 419 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a surprise. 420 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: I mean it must have felt you know, these things 421 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: like I say this a lot. There are times when 422 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: you know, this industry is we get to do noble things, 423 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: and I feel like stories like this, it's kind of 424 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 2: this is one of those moments, you know, where it's 425 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: it's telling a story that's incredibly painful but very meaningful 426 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 2: and necessary. So I mean it must have felt really 427 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 2: good to be a part of something like that. 428 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, well one hundred percent and it's been there's been 429 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 4: a series of those of those kind of moments and 430 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 4: experiences over my career, working on every project at the 431 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 4: end of the day, but ones where you know, you're 432 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 4: part of something, you know that's that's special and unique 433 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 4: and and we'll withstand the test of time and we'll 434 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 4: kind of hold a place in the history of television 435 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 4: and cinema in some small way, you know, And that's. 436 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 3: That's pretty that's pretty cool. 437 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 4: But uh, you know, and that's not to say that 438 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 4: in some shallow way, you know, but being a part 439 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 4: of something like this story that we're talking about now, well, 440 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 4: if I wasn't a part of it, we certainly wouldn't 441 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 4: be sitting here talking about it. 442 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 3: So it's unique. 443 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is. 444 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 2: I mean, do people well clearly I know we did, 445 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 2: we're asking you about it, But do people come up 446 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: to you, uh, you know, when you are doing some 447 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: other project, do people often want to do they bring 448 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: this up? 449 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 4: Not as often as as as people used to. You know, 450 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 4: there's such a flood of shows and movies and all 451 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 4: of that to watch since since that was the success 452 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 4: that it was back back when it was even when 453 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 4: it re ran you know, on television throughout the nineties. 454 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 4: It would they'd re air it sometime here or there, 455 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 4: and it always did really well, and there was kind 456 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 4: of a resurgence of and then you know, I ended 457 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 4: up doing another you know, uh movie of the week 458 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 4: called My Son Johnny. I guess I was eighteen or so, 459 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 4: and it again was along the same lines as I know. 460 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: My first name was Stephen. 461 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 4: A true story about two brothers who had a tumultuous relationship. 462 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 4: One was very abusive and the other one, after suffering 463 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 4: years and years and years of abuse, ended up, in 464 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 4: what was arguably a self defense situation, killed his brother. 465 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 4: But they wanted to send him to jail for life 466 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 4: for murder. And and but but you know, because it 467 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 4: seemed like he just just out of nowhere killed his 468 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 4: brother without anybody understanding that his brother abused him as 469 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 4: bad as any as as anybody can imagine, you. 470 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 3: Know, ri Rick Schroer Schroter' yes, of course, Michelle Lee. 471 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: Michelle Lee. 472 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 473 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 4: But you know, so if I hadn't done I know, 474 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 4: my first name is Steven, I wouldn't have gotten my 475 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 4: son Johnny. 476 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 3: I wouldn't you know. 477 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 4: There's there's other projects that that that certainly wouldn't have 478 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 4: unfolded years later. Most of the movies of the week 479 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 4: that I did after I know, my first name is Stephen, 480 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 4: probably wouldn't have have come to immediate fruition. 481 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: Right. 482 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 4: But because of that, and then because of going on 483 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 4: to Parker Lewis as well shortly a few years after, 484 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 4: I kept a very busy schedule. 485 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. 486 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 2: Ten years later, while your career is going very well, 487 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: the story Stephen's story and his family story becomes even 488 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: more sort of unimaginable. Where his brother Carrie is he 489 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: murders four women in Yosemite. When you first heard about that, 490 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 2: what was your reaction? 491 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 3: I hope they don't offer me the part you know, 492 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 3: But I mean I. 493 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 4: Was as stunned and shocked as anybody who heard it. 494 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 4: I mean, it was one of the I never met 495 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,719 Speaker 4: carry at all. You didn't know and I don't know 496 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 4: what you know, what his portrayal was like in the. 497 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 3: Movie versus what he was like. I never I don't know. 498 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 4: Anything about that, and I don't know anything about his 499 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 4: life growing up or anything else. 500 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 3: I don't know anything. 501 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 4: It was just jaw droppingly wild to have that correlation. 502 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 3: I mean, it's just. 503 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it was inexplicable. I just was like, wow, 504 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 4: that's a turn for the worst. 505 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: I mean because in the miniseries make it look as 506 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 2: though they have a you know, relatively conventional relationship, Stephen 507 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: and Carrie, and they even you know that he's happy 508 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: when Stephen comes home, and then a lot of the 509 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: things that I read or. 510 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: You know, that I could see. 511 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it's easy in retrospect to look at a 512 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: photo from back then more Carrie standing behind him and think, oh, 513 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: he's jealous and angry, and he's you know, plotting something. 514 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, but jealous and angry to murdering four people for fame. 515 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense to me. 516 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 4: There's something far more sinister at play underneath the service 517 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 4: of all of that. For that to be the outcome, 518 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 4: just for sure, Steven day Or was kidnapped, molested and 519 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 4: returned home. I'm going to go kill four women and 520 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 4: become famous for a moment in time does not. 521 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 3: Make a lick of sense. No, but that's crazy, as 522 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: crazy as crazy. So what are you to do? 523 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: I mean, man or man on Man because they you know, 524 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: they said things like because the parents neglected the other 525 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: children that all this had an impact on him. 526 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: But then I also, you know, come. 527 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 3: On, yeah, it just doesn't matter. 528 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 4: I mean for that to be the outcome, I mean, 529 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 4: you know, oh I was neglected. I'm going to go 530 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 4: chop somebody's head off. It doesn't make sense. There's I 531 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 4: don't know the story. I've never really looked into it. 532 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 4: The whole thing is bothersome. Uh it's it's it's unfortunate 533 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 4: because it cast a really uh you know, pallid shadow 534 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 4: over over over the legacy of Stephen Stainer and and 535 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 4: what he represented to that being the outcome of the family. 536 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 4: You know, it's it's, it's, it's it's shameful, to be honest, 537 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 4: but uh but no, I never really followed up with 538 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: the story beyond like just reading the headline and was like, 539 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 4: what the okay, well that's something. 540 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a shame that there's any you know, 541 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: the people now connect those two stories sort of as 542 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: one in some regard. 543 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: It's I agree with you. I think it's unfortunate. 544 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, it is. 545 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: What stays me the most about Stevens story. 546 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 4: Let's say, what says me the most was how astonished, 547 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 4: even at that age I was at how well adjusted 548 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 4: he became in life. And that, that to me is 549 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 4: the that's the showstopper right there, That and even more 550 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 4: cataclysmic and and and and stormy outcome for his life 551 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 4: didn't present itself or or at least more of a 552 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 4: difficult transition back into some kind of normalcy. 553 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 3: That to me. 554 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 4: Is the true testament of his character and and what 555 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 4: should be celebrated at the end of the day and 556 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 4: the story is that through all of that, he still 557 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 4: came out the other side, you know, with his with 558 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 4: his integrity intact, and was able to live life as 559 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 4: a as a father, and a husband and and a 560 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 4: law by aiding citizen. You know, like anybody else, you'd 561 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 4: never know his life story if you pass by. 562 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: Him on the street, you know, right, it is nothing 563 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: short of miraculous. 564 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 3: Site. 565 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree. 566 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 2: Well this it's been so lovely to talk with you again. 567 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: This this mini series is called I know my first 568 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 2: name is Stephen, and you're just wonderful in it and 569 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 2: it's really a special important series. What where can we 570 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 2: find you now? Please tell me what you're what you're 571 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: up to right now? I know you're editing a film, 572 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 2: you just directed. 573 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I just finished a film that I co 574 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 4: wrote with a producing part and friend of mine named 575 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 4: Matt Florio, that we shot down here in outside of 576 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 4: Saint Petersburg, Florida, with a great group of executive producers 577 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,479 Speaker 4: on it, local local guys down here. 578 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 3: But yeah, it was you know, it was a fun shoot. 579 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 4: It's a horror comedy, it's a mockumentary, and it's also 580 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 4: a found footage piece. It's about a documentary crew that 581 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 4: finds out about a story, this legend of this half man, 582 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 4: half chicken who lives in the swamps of northern Florida. 583 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 3: And comes out once a year, uh and terrorize and 584 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 3: terrorized the town. 585 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 4: And so they go there to find out if this, 586 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 4: if this whole legend is true. 587 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 3: And as they set out for the night to try. 588 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 4: And get get this the the half man half Chicken 589 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 4: on film, one by one each of the crew members 590 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 4: is eliminated and all left the footage. 591 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: And then there was that, there were none. All that's 592 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: left is the footage. Oh that's pretty genius. 593 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And so it's it's it's a very it's 594 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 4: kind of like The Office meets Blair Witch Project, except 595 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 4: for that man have chicken in it, and we've had 596 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 4: a lot of fun. We're now in the editing phase 597 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 4: and it's it's but it's it's going to happen. 598 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 599 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 2: Oh well, congrats and I we look forward to seeing it. 600 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: So yeah, I wish you the best with it. 601 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 2: And again, thank you so much for spending the time today. 602 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: This is a. 603 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: Really important story that we've talked about, and thank you 604 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 2: for being here. 605 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 3: Thanks Elisa,