1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: My name is Kat. 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you're like what is 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: couch Talks, it is the special bonus episode of You 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Need Therapy that comes out every single Wednesday, where I 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: answer questions that you guys send to me and you 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: can send them to Katherine at therapy podcast dot com. Now, 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: per usual, this podcast is not a substitute or a 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: form of actual therapy, and I try as hard as 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: I can to steer away from actually giving personal advice 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: on here, although sometimes I might cross those lines maybe, 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: but more generally I like to give like off or 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: insight and ask questions that might help somebody make the 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: decision that they need to make or come up with 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: the conclusion that they need to come up with based 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: on the question they said. 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: But that's just a long winded. 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: Way of me saying that this podcast is not a 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: replacement or substitution for actual mental health services, but it 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: might actually help you find or be encouraged to go 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: and get therapy or talk about something specific in therapy, 23 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: so it can definitely help. We're going to go with 24 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: the normal format, which is answering one question that I 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: have received from a listener, and as always I like 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,919 Speaker 1: to keep the listeners anonymous, So no matter what question 27 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: you write in, I will not tell people what your 28 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: name is, or tell people your email address or anything. 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: That would be really weird if I did that. But 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: this is anonymous. So if you're wondering, why didn't she say, 31 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: shout out who that was from? Because we like to 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: keep these things on the DAL just for confidentiality and 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: safety and all that. So here is the question and 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: then we will get into it. Hi, Kat, big fan 35 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: of the podcast and for all that you do for 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: the community. Both my personal practice of therapy and your 37 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: podcast have helped heal the last two years. I recently 38 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: found out that my strange father has developed skin cancer 39 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: again and it possibly has spread to his lungs. My 40 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: father was severely depressed in the last ten to fifteen 41 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: years and lashed out at me and my family, causing 42 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: some deep wounds. We don't know how long he will 43 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: be with us or if the cancer has spread. I'm 44 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure out if I should reach out and 45 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: how I should go about it. I'm also worried about 46 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: whatever wounds that would be reopened from any interaction. Would 47 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: really love any advice you have. Again, thank you so 48 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: much for all you do, and especially loving the Amy 49 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: and cat Chats. And if you guys are running, what's 50 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: the Amy and cat Chats? That is Amy Brown's podcast 51 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: Four Things with Amy Brown. I co host her Tuesday 52 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: episode that we have undercover named Amy and cat Chats, 53 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: where we just talked about random things. Anyway, let's get 54 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: back to this email, because this is a this is 55 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: a big one, and before I say anything, I want 56 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: to start with one. 57 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. 58 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that you have the hurt with your dad 59 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: and those experiences, also that he's sick, and that this 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: situation is really confusing and tough, and you probably already know. 61 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you direct advice and I 62 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: can't tell you what's best for you. I can't know that, 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: but I can help offer some perspectives and things to 64 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 1: think about and things that might help you choose what 65 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: you want and what you. 66 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: Need to do here. 67 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: So the first thing that I immediately thought when I 68 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: read this email was this part of Lori Gottlieb's book 69 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: Maybe you Should talk to Someone, where she is talking 70 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: about a past client and this thing called forced forgiveness. 71 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: And she tells the story of that past client who 72 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: had a difficult relationship with his father. And I'm going 73 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: to read that little excerpt from her book just because 74 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: she tells her story better than I can do. So 75 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: this what I'm about to read is from the book 76 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. And I highly recommend 77 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: that book. It is one of my favorite books I've 78 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: ever read. She was a past guest last t'm on 79 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: the podcast. She's awesome, She's really smart. But this is 80 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: what I immediately thought about when I read that email, 81 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: and I want to share it with everybody that's listening. 82 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: So here it is. 83 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: Forgiveness is a tricky thing in the way that apologies 84 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: can be. Are you apologizing because it makes you feel 85 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: better or because it will make the other person feel better? 86 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: Are you sorry for what you've done? Or are you 87 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: simply trying to placate the other person who believes you 88 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: should be sorry for the thing you feel completely justified 89 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: in having done. Who is the apology for There's a 90 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: term we use in therapy, forced forgiveness. Sometimes people feel 91 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: that in order to get past to trauma, they need 92 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: to forgive whoever caused the damage, the parent who sexually 93 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: assaulted them, the burglar who robbed their house, the gang 94 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: member who killed their son. They're told by well meaning 95 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: people that until they can forgive, they'll hold onto the 96 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: anger granted. For some forgiveness can serve as a powerful release. 97 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: You forgive the person who wronged you without condoning his actions, 98 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 1: and it allows you to move on. But too often 99 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: people I feel pressure to forgive and then end up 100 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: believing that something's wrong with them if they can't quite 101 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: get there, and that they aren't enlightened enough, or strong 102 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: enough or compassionate enough. So what I say is this, 103 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: you can have compassion without forgiving. There are many ways 104 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: to move on, and pretending to feel a certain way 105 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: isn't one of them. I once had a client named 106 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: Dave who had a problematic relationship with his father. His 107 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: father was, by his account, a bully, demeaning, critical, and 108 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: full of himself. He had alienated both of his sons 109 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: from a young age, and he had a distant and 110 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: contentious relationship with them as adults. When his father was dying, 111 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: Dave was fifty years old, married with children his own, 112 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: and he struggled with what to say at his father's funeral, 113 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: what would ring true, And then he told me that 114 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: as his father lay on his deathbed, he had reached 115 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: out for his son's hand and said, out of the blue, 116 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: I wish I had treated you better. 117 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: I was a prick. 118 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: Dave was livid. Did his father expect absolution now at 119 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: the eleventh hour? The time to make repairs, he felt, 120 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: was long before you left this earth, not on the 121 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: eve of your departure. You don't automatically get the gift 122 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: of closure, of forgiveness from a deathbed confession. He couldn't 123 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: help himself. I don't forgive you, Dave told his dad. 124 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: He hated himself for saying this, regretted it the second 125 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: it came out. But after all the pain his father 126 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: had put him through, and all the work he'd done 127 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: to create good life for himself and his family, he'd 128 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: be damned if he was going to soothe his father 129 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: now with a sugary lie. He spent his childhood lined 130 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: about how he felt. Still, Dave wondered what kind of 131 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: person says this to his dying father. David started to apologize, 132 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: but his father interrupted him. I understand, he said, if 133 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: I were you, I wouldn't forgive me either, And then 134 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: the strangest thing happened. Sitting there holding his father's hand, 135 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: Dave felt something shift. He felt for the first time 136 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: in his life, genuine compassion, not forgiveness, but compassion, compassion 137 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: for the sad, dying man who must have had his 138 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: own pain. And it was that compassion that allowed Dave 139 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: to speak authentically at his father's funeral. So I'm not 140 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 1: saying by reading this this is kat again, by the way, 141 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: is that you should call your dad and reconcile your relationship. 142 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: That may not be possible, and it might not be 143 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,679 Speaker 1: what you need. But I wanted to share this because 144 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: I think it so perfectly expresses what we don't hear enough. 145 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: We don't have to be okay with people, forgive people, 146 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: let things go, or move on, to care for people 147 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: and to have care for people. And I think about 148 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: my own life and hearing stories from clients where they 149 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: express or share things that they've done in their past 150 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: or maybe even the present, that they are ashamed of 151 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: or working through, and some things that might hit on 152 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: my personal stuff or experiences or traumas. And often a 153 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: client will say I'm afraid to tell you this because 154 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: you'll judge me, or you'll look at me differently, or 155 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: something like that. And what I can offer back to 156 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: them in those moments is that doesn't really matter how 157 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: I feel about someone, because I don't have to excuse 158 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: someone's behavior or forgive somebody for what they have done 159 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: in their past or any of that. For me to 160 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: be able to offer them compassion and for me to 161 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: be able to help them in the present, I don't 162 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: have to do those things. They don't have to live 163 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: within each other. They can be exclusive from each other. 164 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: And I don't think we hear that enough, especially now 165 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: in the climate of what our country is moving through. Now. 166 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: There's a difference in offering compassion and letting go of boundaries. 167 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: And I don't know the details of this specific situation, 168 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: but maintaining boundaries might be something you do in order 169 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: to avoid further emotional damage or pain. And I can't 170 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: know what is emotionally safe for you or not. 171 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: You can know that. 172 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: And I believe that if we allow ourselves the space 173 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: to really ask ourselves what feels right, what feels safe, 174 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: what feels. 175 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 2: Wise to me? 176 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: When it comes to my story, we actually can know 177 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: what we want to choose. We just too often have 178 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: been taught that either we choose wrong or that we 179 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: need approval for our choices, or maybe we've been taught 180 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: that these are the right choices, and if they don't 181 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: feel right, then we start to not trust ourselves. But 182 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: I think in the story that Lori shares in her 183 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: book is sharing for me that like this idea of 184 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: force forgiveness, if you have to do this thing, you 185 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: should feel this. Then if it doesn't fit right with us, 186 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: we feel like there's something wrong with us, when maybe 187 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: it's just the wrong choice and that we get to 188 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: choose differently and that different people need different things. The 189 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: good news here is that there are so many ways 190 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: you can handle this. There are so many things that 191 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: you can do, and it's not black and white. It 192 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be all in. It doesn't have to 193 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: be zero or one hundred. If you choose to reach 194 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: out to your dad, you can write an email, you 195 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: can call them, you can text them, you can send 196 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: a handwritten letter. This doesn't mean you will be driving 197 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: over to his house and sitting next to his bed, 198 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: or taking him to his doctor's appointments. Necessarily so maybe 199 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: you start with this, what is your motivation? What am 200 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: I motivated by? Is it a feeling? What feelings come up? 201 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: Am I motivated by fear? Guilt, shame? And what are 202 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: those feelings actually saying to me? Do I agree with them? 203 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: Are they leading me to what I need? And am 204 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: I even listening to them enough to be able to 205 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: discern what that even would be? Or am I trying 206 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: to listen to the feedback of people around me or 207 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: other people's experiences or what I've been told or maybe 208 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: what a religious organization is telling me or anything like that? 209 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: Am I actually giving myself the space to listen to 210 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: myself so I can figure that out? And that's really 211 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: getting it, like the why behind the what right? So 212 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: the motivation? What is motivating me? Why am I wanting 213 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: to reach out or not reach out? And then like, 214 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: if I would reach out, what would I say or ask? 215 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: And what's the safest way to do that? Where I 216 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: am right now in my life, in my relationship with myself, 217 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: my family and my friends, my dad. So a lot 218 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: of questions to move through, and you might need to 219 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: answer those questions with somebody. It might be helpful to 220 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: sit down with somebody and say this out loud to 221 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: them and see what it feels like. And I would 222 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: recommend doing that with a safe person, and hopefully through 223 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: a conversation like that, you'll be able to connect with 224 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: what actually feels really good. 225 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: When you say it and sit in it. 226 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: I think another tough thing about this kind of stuff 227 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: is that we want things to one hundred percent feel 228 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: like the perfect decision. And I don't think that there 229 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: is a perfect decision here, because this is a situation 230 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: that you really shouldn't ever have to be in the 231 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: first place. It's a really hard situation and there's not 232 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: a complete right way to move through it. There is 233 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: just like the most right way, the most wise way 234 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: for you to move through it yourself. 235 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: So I hope that helped. 236 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: And for anybody listening who liked that little part that 237 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: I read in the book, if you haven't read that book, 238 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 1: please read it. It's so freaking good and there's I mean, 239 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: I would highlight that whole book if I could, because 240 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: there is so much goodness in it. 241 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: So that does it for me. And I hope you 242 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: have the days you need. 243 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 1: To have till I get to talk to you guys again. Bye. 244 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,599 Speaker 2: Guys,