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Auto dot ai is here 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.520 to help use auto dot ai to get automatic meeting notes. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.440 You can even step away from the meeting and catch 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.320 up any time. Get started for free at auto dot 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.760 ai or download in the app stores. That's otter dot Ai. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.520 Do I start, Welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to start. 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.199 This is comedian w Kamal Bell. We met years ago 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.280 at the beginning of both of our careers. I think 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.320 I bombed a couple of volunteer events. Yeah, you bombed 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.520 a little bit, and I got to see bombs. I 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.200 love this guy. Look at him bombing like a pro. Yeah, 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.400 it's great and uh and yeah. It's been wild that 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.200 our careers have gone in these crazy trajectories and now 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.160 we reunited to discuss Fred Rogers today come out has 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.720 a CNN show called United Shades of America where he 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.560 travels around the US talking to people about what's wrong 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.640 with this country. And I wanted to talk with him 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.560 because he did something really interesting with that show. He 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.880 sat down with some of the most hateful people I 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:05.960 can think of, and he had a conversation. I'm Carvel 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.680 Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about Fred 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.799 Rogers from I Heeart Media and Fatherly in partnership with 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:26.720 transmitter media early and I think it was the first 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.680 season you talked with some white nationalists, uh, and some 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.440 pretty heavy movers in that. I imagine you've got a 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:39.000 lot of pushback from people about giving the people platform 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.000 given how did you make sense, why did you decide 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:42.800 to do that, and what did you learn in that experience. 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:48.079 I believe, and you know, platform and Richard Spencer or 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.560 any of these people would be tonight in the United Shades, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.040 I'm going to take the night off and let Richard 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.600 Spencer run the show. To me, that's platforming. That's normalizing. 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.280 Sitting out and talking to Richards Spencer about what he 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.160 believes in all of his white nationalists beliefs in the 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.920 middle of an episode that is highlighting the importance of 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.360 immigration and refugees in this country. To me, it is 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.280 not platforming. I also think when Trump was first selected, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.639 the fear of platforming and normalizing is I think we're 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.080 really buzzwords at the left held onto in lieu of 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.920 doing the actual work, Like you know, no, we I 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:24.800 feel like looking at it in the face is actually 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.040 helpful to me to go how serious is this? Not 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:28.720 looking at it in the face, to me, is is 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:30.799 sort of a way to sort of like just pretend 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:32.959 like you can still go to yoga class and and 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.600 uh in the farmer's market, because I think the reason 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.000 why we have Trumpet office right now is because a 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:39.360 lot of people on the left were wanting to look 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.680 at him, you know, they weren't willing to really like 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.119 is this possible? No, it's not possible, because I've been 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.600 doing a chance in the morning. So for me, it's 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:50.520 the fact is it's like if we've if we if 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.920 we've learned anything in this current air of Americas that 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:54.200 we got to look at this stuff in the face, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:56.520 you know what I mean. So for me, you know, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.120 it's the it's Sunlight's the best disinfectant. Like I I 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:04.280 believe that. Did you find Richard Spencer uh intimidating who's 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.160 probably a foot shorter than you. Yeah, he's not as 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:08.800 short as most whitespurad. I think that's why he was 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:15.640 the leader. He was like, did you play in the NBA? 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.080 After you go in there, you do realize everybody's like 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.760 five four and like and they would sort of trying 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.080 to like walk up to me, a couple of them 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:23.720 trying to get me to a flinch or just sort 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.800 of like and it was like, also six four man, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.559 I'm not not. I just sort of like it became 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.720 fun to me to sort of like look comfortable, you know. 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:32.520 And so by the time I sat down and talked 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.320 to him, it was really fine. We are here to 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.480 talk about Mr Rogers. And that's good cause I was like, man, 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.760 this is really not what I prepared. Know. I tend 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:42.920 to approach things from like, um, and Uh, the reason 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.120 I'm asking about your experiences with Richard Spencer's because I've 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:51.520 been really stuck on this this sort of ethical position 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.760 that Fred Rogers took, which is that it's it's you 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.080 I like. I like you just the way you are, Uh, 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.760 that kind of thing. And I wonder how that squares 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:07.719 with people who were like Richard Spencer. Could Fred Rogers 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:09.720 say I like you just the way you are? And 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.560 I know you can't speak for him, So I'm going 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.440 to ask you to speak for you. Did you when 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.280 you look at him, see anything that you felt compassion 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.039 for when you talked with Richard Spencer or some of 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:22.960 these other white nationalists? So, Uh, the thing is, when 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:24.360 I think about that, I like you just where you 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.240 are when you sit down with people individually. A lot 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.119 of times all that stuff, a lot of the bluster 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.240 goes away. Like when I talked to the clan and 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.160 uh in was it in Kentucky. It became very clear 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.240 to me after a while, like, oh, you guys have 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.640 come from a community where there's no jobs, there's no opportunity, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:47.200 your educational system isn't good, and you're just mad, and 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.080 you have bought a bill of goods from somebody that 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.400 is black people's fault. Like that's the problem is that 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.640 that you went from, Like I want more opportunity and 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.040 more jobs of my community too, It's got to be 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.240 somebody's fault. And then somebody sold you can we talked 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.760 to you about black peop they handed you be it's 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.359 black people fall pans. And so for me, when I 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.120 take away the when I look at that part, I go, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.520 that's the part I could have empathy with. You know, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.960 these people are not the billionaire people who were running 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.600 this country and using tools of white supremacy to keep 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:16.719 things going. These are people who are like, got sold 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:26.039 a bill of goods based on being vulnerable. A few 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.880 years ago, I was in Michigan reporting a story. I 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:30.719 was at the gym and I looked up and saw 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.680 Kamal's face on the TV screen. This was several months 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:39.600 after the election, and the alt right was feeling definitely emboldened, 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.600 so much so in fact, that they were white supremacists 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.080 marching in downtown Berkeley, of all places, which happened to 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.039 be where Kamal lived. He had just spoken at a 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.400 counter protest, and on Fox News they were playing his 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:57.000 speech and calling him a radical black separatist, and suddenly 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:03.960 Kamal had become a target of white premises. That was 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.080 when I got streets got hot for me for a second, 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.320 exactly the streets got hot for you. And all of 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.480 a sudden, I was I had a lot of feelings 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.800 seeing that, actually, dude, Like, on the one hand, I 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.560 was like, this is absurd, But then in the other hand, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.080 it kind of struck a little bit of fear in 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.280 my heart because I thought, God, if you can call comal, 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.880 or if you can get like like the Confederate flag 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.120 waivers income as a black separation, what who among us 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:30.160 is safe? Is like, this is the most integrated dude 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.480 I've ever met. And uh and um. I was just 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.360 really amazed by that, and I thought a lot about it, 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:36.800 and I guess I want to ask you what that 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.680 experience was like for you to be targeted in that 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.000 way and how you made sense of that, like how 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.760 you navigated that. Was that scary at all? Like it 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.560 only became because you had kids at that point. Yeah, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.400 it became scary because over the next week or so, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.960 it like I became the like the the deep intern 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.840 dark web, intern hinterland internet all right target, Like I 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.720 was just the person on summer Jam screen. So like 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.480 like so all these memes start going up, and you know, 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.560 we were in downtown Berkeley, so people see me walking 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.600 into my house, you know, and also we're right now 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.040 where all the alright rallies are. It was scary. It 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.240 was like the first time I felt like that my 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.360 thing I do on TV is can affect my family, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:19.920 like in a way that it feels like we have 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.920 to sort of like think about our security protocols and 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.760 think about like where we send our kids to school 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:27.600 as opposed to like oh yeah, you know, and all 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.600 these sorts of things that sort of that that we 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.920 weren't thinking in that way before. Doesn't that kind of 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.440 make you hate people like they're putting your family in 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.800 jeopardy and putting you in the situation where you feel like, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.360 I mean, doesn't that like trigger rage and hating, you 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.720 know it triggers like I'd say it, triggers like Papa Bear, 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.720 protect your family, you know it, triggers like don't do 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.560 anything stupid the people who are doing this I already 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:55.080 wasn't a fan of anyway, like this has really Yeah, 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:56.720 I sort of knew this, you know. And also the 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.880 history of black people in this country is that, you know, 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.560 you can't know the history of are people without knowing that, like, 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.600 you know, we get taken out regularly. Now. I don't 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.360 think I'm not trying to be some sort of martyr 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.560 or something, but it's just like, if I choose to 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.640 do this work and I choose to be public about it, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.800 It's not that I'm like ready to die or any 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.480 of that nonsense. You know, I got too many children 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.719 to die right now. But I do feel like this 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:20.200 is a part of the gig. I mean, my wife 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.200 talked about that, like, and I think about like people 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.480 like Dick Gregory as far as like he actually gave 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.160 up comedy to be an activist at one point in 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.360 his life, and so this is the work I want 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:29.840 to do, and it feels right now in this country, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.400 feels like it's necessary. If anything, I feel bad, but 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.240 I'm not doing more of it. I think more about that, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:35.680 like what more can I do? Or how can I 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.360 do this better than I think about the people who 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:39.720 who have enmity towards me. And also the thing is 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.319 most of them don't even They're just blah blah blah, 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:52.480 like they're gonna move on to the next person. We'll 0:09:52.480 --> 0:10:07.079 be right back. Teething can be a real nightmare for 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.040 your little ones. So are you looking for the best 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.000 relief to soothe teething pain? Or Highlands Natural's Baby Oral 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.080 Pain Relief can help use the pain. It's gentle, natural, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.840 active ingredients like cameramil and arnica. They'll soothe your baby's 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.400 mouth and gums. 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What's your first earliest memory of seeing 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.480 Fred Rogers or seeing a show? Did you watch you 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.160 growing up? I watched you growing up, so I don't 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.400 have like I don't have the time my mom sat 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.960 me down, we didn't have cable, so I guess most cable. Uh. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.800 And so you know I'm talking about like Sesame Street, 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.280 Mr Rogers, the Electric Company three to one contact for 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:13.320 my old heads out there lane right now. Yeah. So 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.680 for me, like Mr. Rogers is just one of the 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.000 things that I watched on TV. And then for me, 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:19.760 the weird part is like, even when I got older, 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.719 every now again you flip past and go, let me 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.000 just watch a few minutes. Why what is what? What 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.120 did that bring to you? I think there's something the 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.760 greatest of kids programming, there's something so pure about it 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.640 that it's doing anything he wants to do that adults 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.200 watch it too, Like I think that's true. When it's 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:36.880 not pure, when it's really about like you just want 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:38.839 my kid to buy this thing, don't you, then it's 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.000 like it becomes too self conscious of like the things 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.839 that's trying to do. But Mr Rogers is super pure. 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.040 It's just like this is one persons statement being supported 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.880 by the team of people around him and somebody who 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.599 works in TV. That's hard to do. Yeah, I was 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.280 gonna ask you about that, like as it has your 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.520 understanding of what he was able to do change now 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.920 that you are a maker of television. Yes, great, thank you, 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.720 goodnight everyone. Yeah. No, I mean it's like it's hard 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.280 to get everybody on you if you have everybody on 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.920 the same page that they're all in service of of 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.480 Mr Rogers. I can still call Mr Rogers. You say 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.679 Fred because you know him like that, But I've been 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.760 called that only by black people on the show. I 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:17.320 just want to point that out because white people have 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.440 been like Fred Red Fred and then viewing and she 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.600 was like, you know him like that exactly like Fred Rogers. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:29.560 Excuse me? Are you a son that? Uh? Mr Rogers? 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.839 Is that it's clear that like everybody was on the 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.120 same page, or at least I knew that this was 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.480 this is the voice I'm following. That's not that's not 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.040 case nine percent of the TV that's ever been made. 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:43.440 That's not the case that they're not listening to one 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.160 for even some of the TV we like, it was 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.360 like it was a nightmare back there, but when it happens, 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:50.920 you can feel it. So for me, there's not much 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.120 difference between Mr. Rogers and Atlanta. With Donald Glover, you 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.320 could feel it like there's not much on that show 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.120 that Donald Glover hasn't been like check, it's fun, it's 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.880 the Atlanta's really interesting comparison, one that I had never 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.960 made um but that rings true for me, partially for 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:06.920 what you said about the creative process, but also because 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.120 both of those shows make a lot of use of 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.800 space and silence, and they do this thing where they 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.560 train the listeners to sit still long enough to start 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.600 to feel and experience more subtle levels of what's going on. 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:21.960 And they've built a lot of trust with the audience. 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:25.120 So even if you're like, where's this going, he was like, 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.360 I'm gonna sit here and see. And I think that's 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.440 the important thing too, is that the that you when 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.040 you build that trust with the audience, and that comes 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.640 from the audience knowing I trust that, uh Mr Rogers 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.840 or Mr Glover, I trust that these people have a plan, 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.000 because so many times you watch a lot of TV 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:42.360 and it's like there's no plan. They just had to 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.240 get this done. They just had to turn this in 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.880 and there was a way which Mr Rogers did. There's 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.880 something that feels like we're here for one purpose, we're 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.520 all pulling together and we're not trying to do something 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.240 that is cooler hip or trendy. We want to create 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.520 an experience and have you joined us today and come 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.080 back the next time. Also, I think talk, I mean 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.240 I think againswers from Mr Rogers. I think the reason 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:04.920 why I respond to Mr Rogers because the way my 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.960 mom treated me talking to your kids like their people, 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.240 you know, like talking, not talking to them like their kids. Like. 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.440 Certainly Mr Rodgers as slows down because he's trying to 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.120 make you understand, but you feel like he's a friend 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.640 of yours. And I think and for me as a parent, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.840 when you feel like you're like I'm the I'm your friend. 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:23.760 I mean, I'm the friend who pays the rent. So 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.480 every now and again I make some decisions. But really 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.040 I would rather us be friends. I would rather us 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.560 talk through these problems instead of like, instead of me 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.760 saying because I said so, yeah, you know, it's interesting 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.640 you bring up your mom and I met your mom 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.160 and read her book, and um, she's a person with 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.720 a very strong black identity, which is part of the 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.880 way you were raised. And um, and I wonder when 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.480 I talk to people about Fred Rogers a lot of times, uh, 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.600 they'll they'll bring up in some way depending on their race. 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.800 A question about how I feel about him as a 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.120 black man. In other words, the question I was actually 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.800 talking with, of all people, I'm not gonna name drop. 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:04.640 I was talking with someone, don't. I was talking with 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.480 someone in Cape cod randomly that i'd run into who 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.840 is a known historian, and I said, I'm doing this 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.960 thing in Fred Rodgers, and he immediately said he was 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.160 a white guy. He immediately said, how do black people 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.440 feel about Fred Rogers? Just like, sir, That's why I'm 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.000 not gonna name drop, because I don't want to I 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.560 don't want to kill his book sales because this book 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.920 is very important. But but that's the first thing he said, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.760 and uh whatever, I stumbled through the answer also kind 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.000 of annoyed and the excuse myself, But it did make 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:32.560 me think about this inherent belief that somehow what Fred 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.880 Rogers did was like doesn't work for blackness, or there 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.320 was misaligned and like, you know, that's been I mean, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.120 in the famous Eddie Murphy sketch. That's sort of the 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.560 premise of that joke is that if you did Fred 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.400 Rogers in the black neighborhood, it might look like this. 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:45.840 But I want to hear you talk a little bit 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.080 about how people understand funny. At the same time I 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.160 was taking into Mr Rodgers, I was also watching Eddie murphyst. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.680 I never saw Eddie Murphy's Mr Robinsons Neighborhood as being 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.040 critical of Mr Rogers. His portrayal of Mr Rogers felt 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.640 like Mr Rogers, but an Eddie Murphy version of it. 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:03.520 And also it never occurred to me that it was 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.840 really the black version of Mr Rodgers. It was just 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.640 the the the this version of blackness of Mr ross 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:11.919 which is the thing white people do. That's the black version. None, No, 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.200 that's like the hood, criminal black person M Rodgers. Sorry, 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:20.119 thereference criminal and black Viking news. Yea, so radical separatists 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:24.920 come out bell Yeah, so again, Tucker Carlson again. So 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.480 for me, it was just the idea that like, this 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.320 is how this is Eddie Murphy. It was a love 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.960 letter Mr Rogers. And when I watched Mr Rogers, I 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.640 didn't watch him as a white guy. I watched him 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.520 as Mr Rogers. And I think that's that's the thing. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.080 I think when a white person asked that question, they 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.280 understand black people and people of color can tell the 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.520 difference between a white guy and Mr Rogers. If that 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.879 show had been made for white kids, we would have 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.760 been able to sniff it through. Doesn't feel like it's 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:55.080 talking to me, But the fact is Mr Rogers was 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:56.919 talking to all kids. I've been trying to get a 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:58.440 black person to come on this show and say that 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.160 Mr Rogers transcends race. Can I can? I get you? 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:08.120 Can I put you down for transcends race the way 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.879 that when Prince died, he transcended race. Remember printing Prince 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.360 dying David Bowie died. I was like, no, I said, 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:22.240 David Bowie transcended race. Mr Rogers transcends his race. Wow, 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.479 we got it, We got it, Cliff. Uh. Yeah, it's 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.080 funny because I think a lot about um, I think 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.280 a lot about this. He doesn't transcend race, he transcends 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.639 his race. That's so that's an interesting distinction. Tell me 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.040 more about that, just that he that he's so good 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.480 that I don't even score him down for being white, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.160 that I don't do good, don't see him through through 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:45.680 his whiteness, which I see a lot of people through 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.720 their Yeah. Yeah, I actually it's a really interesting point. 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:54.000 No one made that quite as articulately. You're so articulate. Uh, 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.080 no one's made that quite as articulately as you have. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.639 That there was something It wasn't that he transcended for 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:00.960 the existence of race, but something about the way he 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.760 presented himself didn't allow you to think of him just 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.040 as a white guy period. And I wonder what that is, Like, 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.960 I mean, part of me thinks that because he was 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:17.960 trafficking in a certain kind of respect and kindness that 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:23.440 typically we don't see associated with like your average run 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.959 of the mill white person when interacting with like the 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.480 rest of the world or your average run of the 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:29.680 mill kids show, Like there are a lot of times 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.880 they're yelling, you know, they're they're not actually trying to connect, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.400 they're trying to u order, you know, like do this now, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:41.879 do this? Go buy it? Like it's very like the 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.240 cast of kid shows. And he was just like he 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.600 just wanted to sit with you, and it was clear 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:49.280 he cared. And I mean, it's so hard to do 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.040 through the TV camera when you're looking at the camera, 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:52.840 because he's literally looking at a camera. He's not looking 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.080 at a person. And I know that too, for having 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:56.600 to look at camera when they say talk directly the 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.560 camera and I was like, yeah, because you're looking at 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.720 a box and you're looking at like half the camera 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:02.840 guys shoulder and you know, and you're wondering if he's 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:04.760 paying attention or whatever? How do you go about that? 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:06.760 Because I was gonna ask you about that, like about 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:11.359