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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Dexter Hall. I will be at Dexter.

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Speaker 1: Good to have thank you, great to be here. So, Dexter,

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Speaker 1: you've been vaccinated against COVID nineteen. Yes, I have two shots.

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Speaker 1: And when did you get the shot? A couple of

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Speaker 1: months ago now? And has it change your behavior? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I mean I think we were always on the cautious side,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's just such a mental relief to

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Speaker 1: not be worrying about the small chance that you might die.

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Speaker 1: Do you know anybody who died? Uh? People who know

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Speaker 1: people you know, our guitar players. Mother in law for example,

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Speaker 1: actually passed away from COVID. So it hits home. It's

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Speaker 1: close enough, that's and you could, you know, you could

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Speaker 1: you could kind of feel the circle tightening, you know.

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Speaker 1: Before it was like, I don't know anyone who's even

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Speaker 1: gotten it, and then all of us know that guy

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Speaker 1: got it. That guy got it, and then pretty soon

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Speaker 1: it was this person died, and it was it was

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Speaker 1: feeling kind of kind of scary around the holidays and

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Speaker 1: in your circle. How many people got it? Uh? I

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Speaker 1: mean ten, maybe half a dozen something like that. Anybody

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Speaker 1: really close to you, my my buddy's wife, I guess

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Speaker 1: it would be like that close. Okay, So why do

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Speaker 1: you think everybody, so not everybody, but of the country

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Speaker 1: is so reluctant to get vaccinated? Right right? Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean cheefs. We could go into a whole thing about that.

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Speaker 1: Right here. The reason I'm asking you all this it's

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Speaker 1: not only do you we interact with the public, but

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Speaker 1: you're someone who actually knows the science. Yes, I have

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Speaker 1: a I have a doctorate in molecular biology, which is

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Speaker 1: sort of like a biotech I guess you call it.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I focused on the HIV virus, So, um,

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Speaker 1: I know a little bit about virology. You know. What

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Speaker 1: I know is more the nuts and bolts of you know,

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Speaker 1: how virus actually work, some latches on and that stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know. I'm not an epidemiologist, so I'm certainly not

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Speaker 1: an expert. But I mean I think vaccine reluctance. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's a it's a distrust of government, distrust of authority,

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Speaker 1: and that goes back to you know, Watergate. I guess

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how far back you want to go,

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Speaker 1: but and and certainly the last administration didn't help that

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Speaker 1: at all. I think it encouraged people to to not

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Speaker 1: want to be part of these kinds of things because

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Speaker 1: they feel like they're going to be controlled or there's

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Speaker 1: a chip in the vaccine. Okay, Certainly as you get

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Speaker 1: into harder rock there are more right wing fans. Is

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Speaker 1: this something you experience amongst your fan base or something

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Speaker 1: you might worry about. Uh, that's a great question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course there's you know, the Ted Nugents of the

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Speaker 1: world and all all that kind of stuff, But you

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Speaker 1: know that our world is more of what I would

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Speaker 1: call a punk rock world, and it really is different.

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Speaker 1: Like the only guys with doctorates I know are in

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Speaker 1: punk bands, not not the rock stuff. So we're not

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Speaker 1: really exposed to the right wing stuff too much, I

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Speaker 1: don't think. So why do you think the punk rockers

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Speaker 1: have doctorates and the other people don't? That is a

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Speaker 1: great question. We were talking about that just the other day,

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Speaker 1: like what is it that Maybe it's uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not funk authority, it's question authority, I guess, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, ask questions and and uh, there was just

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Speaker 1: something you know that was I think was intellectually stimulating

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Speaker 1: about the punk rock that we're listening to, and we

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Speaker 1: grew up and you could all say, and for those

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Speaker 1: of those who lived through the era, it was definitely

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Speaker 1: a turn away from what was existing. That's why you

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Speaker 1: know they did it to begin with. You know, the

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Speaker 1: ramans very basic, very short songs, so it you know,

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Speaker 1: this creativity is inspiration more than execution. So I agree

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Speaker 1: with you. It took a lot of intelligence and risk

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Speaker 1: to make punk rock. I'm not trying to say we're

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Speaker 1: the smart guys necessarily, but I mean when I was

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Speaker 1: growing up, you know, the rock, the you know, the

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Speaker 1: the the Sunset strip scene at the time was very

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Speaker 1: much top down with the girl and all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. And it was bands like the sex Pistols

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Speaker 1: that I was way more drawn to because it was

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Speaker 1: heavy and it was political and it felt more I

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Speaker 1: don't know, substantive, I guess. Okay, let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: new album. So there hasn't been an album for years.

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Speaker 1: How do you finally decide to release a new one?

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Speaker 1: I know, Uh, well, it's not just being lazy. It

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Speaker 1: was actually being kind of busy and um just kind

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Speaker 1: of not putting a lot of pressure on ourselves to

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Speaker 1: make the record. I think that there's kind of a

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Speaker 1: natural pressure once you start releasing records that like, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, we have to put out something every two

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Speaker 1: to three years or will be obsolete. It would be

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Speaker 1: forgotten and stuff. And that's kind of a hard thing

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Speaker 1: to to live with, feeling like you're under pressure to create. Um.

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Speaker 1: Pressure is not usually good for creativity. And we do

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Speaker 1: tour quite a bit. We're on the road almost four

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Speaker 1: months of every year, so um, when we get home,

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Speaker 1: it was harder to fit in the studio time. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, I think I just wanted to feel

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Speaker 1: like the songs felt good and it felt like the

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Speaker 1: right record for the right time. And and that's really

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Speaker 1: what finally happened just this last year, as it felt

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Speaker 1: like these are the things I want to sing about,

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Speaker 1: and I feel good about these songs, and it feels

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Speaker 1: like the right time for this record. Now the record

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Speaker 1: is got twelve songs, but it's pretty short. Thirty three minutes.

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Speaker 1: Was that conscious? Well? I mean we felt like it

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Speaker 1: was long enough we could have put out. We could have,

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Speaker 1: you know, spent another six months or a year. I've

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Speaker 1: done a couple more songs, I guess, but it felt

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Speaker 1: like it was okay, I don't know. I asked Peter Patterneau.

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Speaker 1: He said it was all right. No, Peter was a

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Speaker 1: lawyer that we share. No. I thought it was brilliant

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Speaker 1: and it was only still because it's got twelve songs,

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, an album of the past. It's digestible.

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Speaker 1: You know. Once we used to have vinyl records, there

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Speaker 1: were two sides. There were four crucial tracks, the first

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Speaker 1: and last track on each side. Once we went to

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Speaker 1: c D s, it was essentially one side and it

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Speaker 1: was interminable. So the fact that you had only thirty

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Speaker 1: three minutes of music I thought, was, you know, really

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Speaker 1: a throwback and a step against the relative trend. But

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Speaker 1: some of your previous albums were not that short. So

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Speaker 1: that's why I was asking whether it was conscious. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we wanted to keep it tight, I guess,

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Speaker 1: you know, short and sweet, make sure all the songs counted,

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Speaker 1: and there wasn't filler, And you know that's the worst

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Speaker 1: to think, like, oh, we need to come up with

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Speaker 1: five more minutes so fans don't complain it's too short.

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Speaker 1: Like that's not the right standpoint. A few point to

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Speaker 1: come from, Okay, but the time the album was done

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Speaker 1: before covid Or, wasn't it. It was. We had finished

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Speaker 1: it pretty much right before, and I think we even

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Speaker 1: had a single release date of last May, and we

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Speaker 1: uh had the record done. We went down to South

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Speaker 1: America to do some shows, and that's when the pandemic started.

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Speaker 1: They were literally canceling shows around us in Brazil and

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Speaker 1: then Argentina. We did manage to holl off one show

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Speaker 1: in Chile before they said tours over and you better

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Speaker 1: scrambled to get home because they might close the airports.

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Speaker 1: So we got home just barely in time. And you know,

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Speaker 1: within a couple of weeks, you could feel that it

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Speaker 1: didn't feel like the right time to put out an album,

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Speaker 1: so we just kind of we kind of tweaked it.

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Speaker 1: Actually we didn't just put it on the shelf. We

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Speaker 1: kind of went back and did some remixes. And I'm

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Speaker 1: in retrospect, I'm glad we spent the time because it

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Speaker 1: actually did come up a notch. That's that's a real thing,

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Speaker 1: uh in in the industry, when you're doing a record

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Speaker 1: and you you have to have it finished by a deadline,

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Speaker 1: and there is a certain point where you do let

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Speaker 1: things go and you don't always take things that last

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Speaker 1: maybe ten percent that you wish you could. And this

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Speaker 1: is one of those times where we actually had the

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Speaker 1: chance to do that. Okay, Now, the paradigm amongst the

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Speaker 1: let's call it the Spotify top fifty is really change

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Speaker 1: where there's not a focus on album there's a focus

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Speaker 1: on endless singles. Is that something you thought about because

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Speaker 1: the old paradigm was, you know, there were years between releases. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, our old producer Dave said, look, you guys

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Speaker 1: are partly a punk band and partly a pop band.

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Speaker 1: He goes, and I feel like if you were just

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Speaker 1: one or the other, you probably wouldn't be as successful.

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Speaker 1: He goes. It's the idea that you have both. So

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Speaker 1: we've always put songs on there that I felt weren't

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Speaker 1: just standard punk songs, and that was important. I mean

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Speaker 1: not just in an effort to be commercially successful, but

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Speaker 1: I felt like it was just something creatively I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do. I wanted to to not just feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm doing the same thing or rehashing or I've got

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Speaker 1: this one small niche and that's what we're gonna stick to.

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Speaker 1: So in that sense, uh, I guess you're conscious of it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I was thinking about this the other day,

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Speaker 1: not knowing where you were gonna go in terms of

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Speaker 1: musical history. But you know, when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: it was all about the forty five, you know, like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, those little those little pieces of plastic that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when I was old enough to start

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Speaker 1: becoming aware of music, my my, my parents at this

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Speaker 1: point had been accumulating ten years of forty five. There

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Speaker 1: were stacks and we used to go through them, and

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Speaker 1: you know, back then it was it was everything. It was,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jimmy Rodgers kisses sweeter than wine and honeycomb

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Speaker 1: and I was digging through trying to find Snoopy versus

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Speaker 1: the Red baron and all that kind of stuff. So

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Speaker 1: it was very much a singles kind of world back then.

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Speaker 1: The album thing didn't really come along until much later. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So on this new album, you do a well we

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Speaker 1: can call it a cover, but it's your original song.

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Speaker 1: You do another version of going Away. What inspired you

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Speaker 1: to put that on the album? It started as just

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Speaker 1: a live thing. We thought that with all the heaviness

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Speaker 1: in our songs in our set, it would be nice

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Speaker 1: to just have a breather in the middle of the show,

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Speaker 1: and so let's redo a song in a much quieter way,

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Speaker 1: and that seemed like the natural choice. You've gone always

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Speaker 1: the song that we did uh in a heavy way

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Speaker 1: on our extental the Aumbree record, and um, we thought

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Speaker 1: doing it on piano would kind of add a personal

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Speaker 1: nous to it. Uh, something in you know, makes the

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Speaker 1: vocal more apparent. And the songs about you know, losing someone,

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Speaker 1: it's about grief, so it had a message that I

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Speaker 1: thought would be good to approach that way on the

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Speaker 1: on the piano. So it was kind of like, well,

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Speaker 1: let's what the hell, let's see what happens. When we

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Speaker 1: played it live, the reaction was pretty instant. It was,

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Speaker 1: you know, lighters up in the air and a lot

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Speaker 1: of comments on social media saying this makes the song

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Speaker 1: even more meaningful to me and where can I get

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Speaker 1: a recorded version of this? So it was almost like

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Speaker 1: fans demand that kind of inspired us to go and

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Speaker 1: try to record it. Well, if you go online, you

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Speaker 1: can see YouTube versions of you playing it with the

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Speaker 1: band on the piano, but the version on the album

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Speaker 1: is similar yet different in that it's produced. It has strings, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Whose decision was to add all that well we had.

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Speaker 1: When we play it live, I start on the piano

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Speaker 1: and it felt right to have the band kick in

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Speaker 1: at the end, and that felt really good. When we

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Speaker 1: got into the studio, Uh, somehow that that approach felt flat.

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Speaker 1: It didn't feel like it had the emotion. And I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about how can I approach this? Uh. This

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Speaker 1: kind of a funny story because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: what goes onto the studio. Talking to Bob about this,

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Speaker 1: like what do we do? What do we do? And

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Speaker 1: I said, you know when a great song just vocal

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Speaker 1: and piano is Joe Cocker, you are so beautiful? Like

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Speaker 1: what is it about that song? And Bob explained to

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Speaker 1: me all the things that he felt made that song work,

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Speaker 1: the way the piano moves and how it gets out

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Speaker 1: of the way of the vocal in certain spots, and

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Speaker 1: how strings come in. And I thought, you know, that's great.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's use that as our inspiration, uh for the

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Speaker 1: way we want to frame this song. And we took

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Speaker 1: it from there. So how long did it take you

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Speaker 1: to perfect it? Uh? Yeah, a few months. I guess

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Speaker 1: we work in a different way, you know, Back in

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Speaker 1: the day, it was like, you're gonna book the studio

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Speaker 1: for three months and you're never gonna come out until

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Speaker 1: this record is done. And I felt kind of burned

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Speaker 1: out doing it that way. And I think that there's

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Speaker 1: a certain point where you're running out of ideas and

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Speaker 1: then you're kind of just staring at each other trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out how to finish the song. So what

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Speaker 1: we do now is we go in for a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks at a time, we go through all the

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Speaker 1: ideas and hash it out, and then it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's all I got for right now, and then we

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Speaker 1: go home and sit on it for a month. And

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Speaker 1: then by the time we get back together for a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks again, I've got lots of ideas to

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Speaker 1: carry it forward. It's just much more short spurts. Well,

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Speaker 1: I certainly know that Bob is in Hawaii, Bob Rock

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Speaker 1: the producer. Now there's always issue of studio. I see

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Speaker 1: you're in a studio. Now do you cut it in

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Speaker 1: your own studio or do your book a different studio?

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Speaker 1: We do now this is our studio in Huntington's Beach.

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Speaker 1: We used to go to l A. Of course, to

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Speaker 1: do it, and this kind of started as a demo studio.

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Speaker 1: As a technology improved and Bob k On coming down,

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Speaker 1: we added to the equipment and the whole thing until

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Speaker 1: now we're pretty self sufficient here. We can do everything,

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Speaker 1: including mix, so if you decide you want to go in,

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Speaker 1: it's not like you have to worry about booking the time.

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Speaker 1: It's always available. It's always available. It's just kind of

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Speaker 1: getting schedules together with Bob. He has other other things

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Speaker 1: that he works on as a well, of course. And

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Speaker 1: so what's the reaction been since the album has come

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Speaker 1: out of the new version of Going Away? It feels

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Speaker 1: really good. And I was not sure about that because

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Speaker 1: it's it will sound like a departure compared to our

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Speaker 1: other material, and you're never sure how your your audience

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Speaker 1: is going to react to something that's so different. But

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Speaker 1: maybe just because we've been around long enough people we

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Speaker 1: can get away with it more. It's been been very

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Speaker 1: very good so far. Well, it's an astounding listen. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of when Green Day and I hate to

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Speaker 1: compare acts, but there I did when they went into

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Speaker 1: that mode. Okay, this is a song not solely for alternative.

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Speaker 1: This is a song that could be for everyone. Is

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Speaker 1: the label thinking about that? Are you thinking about that?

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Speaker 1: You know we have this in our pocketed sometime we're

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Speaker 1: gonna try to expose it to a larger audience. I

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Speaker 1: would love to. I think I've brought up to the label. Hey,

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Speaker 1: can you make sure you listen to the last song

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Speaker 1: on the record too. I think it's pretty good. We'll

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Speaker 1: see see what I have. You only listen once, and

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Speaker 1: it is the same song, is the one you recorded

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Speaker 1: earlier on Nicks Nay, But it's really a different record,

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Speaker 1: and it affects you. I mean, this is really a

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Speaker 1: one listen all of a sudden. You know, some things

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Speaker 1: are just so in the pocket, you know. I think

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Speaker 1: a couple of those foreigners songs, you know, waiting for

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Speaker 1: a girl like you, I want to know what love is?

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Speaker 1: You want it to go waiter say? And this is

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Speaker 1: something everybody yeah, well thank you? Yeah. I mean I

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Speaker 1: remember a guy five years ago saying, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: my my buddy down the street passed away, and boy,

295
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Speaker 1: sure would love to play that piano version at his memorial?

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Speaker 1: Do you have that? And we hadn't recorded it yet,

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Speaker 1: so but I thought, how interesting that in his mind,

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Speaker 1: a song like this would would would feel right in

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Speaker 1: that kind of heavy experience. So I know she mean

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Speaker 1: about a different audience. I guess, right, Okay, but the

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Speaker 1: song was based on a real situation, correct, I mean, yes, yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: and no, don't don't really talk about that too much.

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Speaker 1: Yes and no. I mean documentation would say that you

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Speaker 1: had a girlfriend who passed away in a car accident?

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Speaker 1: Is that factually Drew? No, it's not, it's not. Uh well,

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Speaker 1: what the hell tell the story? I guess. I was

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Speaker 1: with my wife on a Sunday and we had gone

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Speaker 1: to dinner and we were going to um Baskin Robbins

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Speaker 1: for our after dinner or whatever ice cream and drive home.

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Speaker 1: And this is, you know, just on Honeyton Beach where

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Speaker 1: we live. And so we're waiting in line and there's

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Speaker 1: ten people in the store. A couple runs in. They

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Speaker 1: go call the police. Someone's chasing us with a gun,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, what the hell, what's going on? And

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden shots rang out. So these these

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Speaker 1: people in this in this car, they had been chased

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Speaker 1: by gangan bank gang members in another car who were

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Speaker 1: mad at him for some reason. They ran into the store.

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Speaker 1: These guys decided to shoot up the store, so, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they it looks like they shot high. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they actually intended to kill anybody, but anyway, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, here we are and it's one of those

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Speaker 1: like strip malls where it's it's a complete glass you know,

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Speaker 1: front to the store, shooting it, and uh, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like, well, funk, I'm we're gonna die, right,

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Speaker 1: And you know, in hiding, trying to you know, get

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Speaker 1: behind a trash can or something, not even knowing where

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Speaker 1: the bullets are coming from. And it turns out I

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Speaker 1: was right in front of the gunman or whatever, but

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Speaker 1: you know, and then crawling over to my wife and

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Speaker 1: you know, putting my body on top of hers and

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Speaker 1: just knowing like I'm gonna get shot, any secondary gonna

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Speaker 1: get shot, and you know, there were several shots that

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Speaker 1: rang out. The whole front was was was what you know,

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Speaker 1: was shot out, and uh, luckily no one was hurt.

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Speaker 1: So I think they just wanted to have fun and

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Speaker 1: scare everybody, right. I don't think they're really trying to

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Speaker 1: kill anybody, but I think just the the the idea

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Speaker 1: that we came so close to death was a real

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Speaker 1: life changing moment. And it was right when we were

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Speaker 1: recording X Nay and uh I I was coming up

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Speaker 1: with the the idea. I knew I wanted the song

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Speaker 1: to be heavy, but I didn't know what was gonna

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Speaker 1: be about yet. But it was kind of like the

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00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: feeling of in a in a weird way. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's not a direct connection, if you know what I mean,

347
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Speaker 1: but it made you think about, you know, about dying

348
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Speaker 1: and about grief and about what that would feel like

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Speaker 1: and what if what if my wife had been the one? Okay,

350
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Speaker 1: so the incident happens. How long after that do you

351
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Speaker 1: write the song? And has it come to you in

352
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 1: a flash or something takes a long time to work out? Oh?

353
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Speaker 1: I wrote it in the next week. It was quick,

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Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It was done in a few days.

355
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Speaker 1: And the lyrics. How long to take you to write

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Speaker 1: the lyrics? A few days? Yeah? Quick? Quick for me,

357
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Speaker 1: Quick for you? Okay? So you were you grew up

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Speaker 1: where I grew up in Garden Grove, which is in

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Speaker 1: Orange County, Okay. Garden Grove is how far from the beach,

360
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Speaker 1: about five miles Okay, So what was it like growing

361
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Speaker 1: up in Garden Grove. I mean it was very suburban.

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Speaker 1: It was I would say we grew up middle class

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Speaker 1: and not like upper middle class or lower middle class,

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Speaker 1: just kind of kind of right in the middle. And

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Speaker 1: it was suburban in that way, with the green lawns

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Speaker 1: and the picket fences and everyone kind of kind of

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Speaker 1: being the same, right and and uh, I think there

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Speaker 1: was something about that, because people say, well, why does

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Speaker 1: so many punk rock bands come out of Orange County?

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Speaker 1: It seems like this republican place where everything's nice and mellow,

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Speaker 1: And I think that there was something in the homogeneity,

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Speaker 1: something in the sameness, the boredom of that that inspired

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Speaker 1: the rebellion that you see in in these bands. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how else to explain it. Okay, would your

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Speaker 1: parents do for a living? My mother was a school

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Speaker 1: teacher and my father was a hospital administrator. Okay, did

377
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Speaker 1: you go to the school where your mother was the administrator? No?

378
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Speaker 1: Never did, never did? Okay did you go to public school?

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Speaker 1: Private school? Yet? Regular, regular old public school in Garden Grove?

380
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Speaker 1: How many how many kids in the family? Four total,

381
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Speaker 1: an older brother and sister and a younger brother. Okay,

382
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Speaker 1: so you're in the middle, in the middle, so you

383
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Speaker 1: traditionally in the middle, the attention is on the oldest

384
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Speaker 1: and the youngest, and you're kind of lost in the

385
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 1: shuffle doing your own thing. What was your experience? Uh?

386
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Speaker 1: I think so, you know, on the third So by

387
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Speaker 1: the time that comes around, they've given up on the

388
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 1: communion and all that stuff, and they're like, you do

389
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Speaker 1: have maybe a little more freedom, I think, which which

390
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Speaker 1: I liked. So you start going to school, what's your

391
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Speaker 1: experience there? Uh uh? You know, I did well at school.

392
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Speaker 1: I I liked it. I don't mean to hesitate, but

393
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Speaker 1: it always sounds weird because I remember always being as

394
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Speaker 1: you grew up, doing well in school was not cool, right,

395
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Speaker 1: You're you're right, you're hesitating to frame your answers so

396
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: you don't say something right, like dumbing down your words

397
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Speaker 1: or whatever. That was definitely a part of it. But

398
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Speaker 1: um but I liked I like learning. Okay, So you

399
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Speaker 1: go to school and you do well. Are you aware

400
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Speaker 1: of the fact that you're on the upper end of

401
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Speaker 1: the class and how does it affect your integration with

402
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: the other people there? Um? Well, for sure, I did,

403
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 1: I did, I did well. So uh uh, you know,

404
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 1: you find you have to find your own group, your

405
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: own click, right, and that's a an ugly process. In

406
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Speaker 1: junior high or not, you're it's the one big group,

407
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Speaker 1: or I mean in elementary it's one big group. Junior

408
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 1: high is where it starts to separate and get weird

409
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Speaker 1: and you feel like you don't have a place. And

410
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Speaker 1: I think in high school hopefully you eventually find your group.

411
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Speaker 1: And it was the group that I started hanging out

412
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Speaker 1: with that we eventually formed the band from Okay, well,

413
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Speaker 1: how did that group fit in the high school? We

414
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 1: ran across country. You're a cross country How did that

415
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: come together? I don't know. I decided I always liked

416
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 1: distance running, uh, and so started doing it in high school.

417
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: I was never good or anything, but but I liked

418
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Speaker 1: it and did it all were years and that was

419
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 1: kind of our click ended up being that, And it

420
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: turned out that we all liked punk rock also, so

421
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: we were like this, these guys that you know likes

422
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: punk rock and we ran across the country, but we

423
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 1: didn't have mohawks and leather jackets, so we kind of

424
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: didn't even fit in with the punkers. We are our

425
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: own little weird group and stuff. So I know it's

426
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Speaker 1: very fashionable to say, well, we never fit in, that's

427
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: why we are who we are, but it really was

428
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: pretty it was true in our case. Okay, you were

429
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: punk rockers. In your case, when did you start playing

430
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: an instrument? Um? I think I was fourteen. My my

431
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: my mother came home from school and saw me sitting

432
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 1: on the couch too many days in a row, and

433
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: she's like, you're doing something. You're gonna start playing piano,

434
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 1: and uh so she she made me take piano for

435
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 1: about a year. And after a year I felt like

436
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't cool being fifteen and going into high school

437
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: and playing piano, which is, you know, a dumb idea now,

438
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: But she let me off and I would it across

439
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: country instead. But I'm really glad now, of course that

440
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: she forced me to, uh to do that. There there

441
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: there might not be a goneaway version, for example, if

442
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: I if we hadn't done that. Okay, do you know

443
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: how to read music? I mean I could, I could

444
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: count down the lines and go I think that's a

445
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: c but no, I guess it's the answer. Okay, so

446
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: you're running across country and you're punk rock fans. At

447
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: what point do you say, hey, maybe we can form

448
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: a band, right, uh, well yeah, punk rock fans, and

449
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: we loved bands like The Dead Kennedy's and The Ramons

450
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. I think it was

451
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: when we first heard a band from Orange County called

452
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: Tis So Well that it kind of took it to

453
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: the next level. It was almost like, oh, well, wait

454
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: a minute, I don't just like that. I want to

455
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 1: be that. I want I want to start a band.

456
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: So that happened when we were about seventeen, but we

457
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 1: didn't We didn't play instruments. That's the story is that

458
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: we we went to a show, couldn't get in. It

459
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: was actually a social distortion show and Irvine, and then

460
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: we ended up at somebody's house saying, well, shoot, maybe

461
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: we should start a band, like, well, we don't play instruments,

462
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: Like what the hell, let's start a band anyway, And

463
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: we actually like divvied up parts that night, Well what

464
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: do you want to play? I'll play bass, I'll play guitar.

465
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: And that is literally how the band started. And then

466
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: we went out and asked our parents to buy as guitars. Okay,

467
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: let's really by school. So what was your relationship with girls?

468
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: During high school and junior high Uh, awkward for sure.

469
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think we're you know, we're typical kids.

470
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: I don't think we really had girlfriends so much until maybe,

471
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, senior year high school, that sort of thing.

472
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: So what is the instrument you're supposed to play? When

473
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: you divvy it up, it was gonna be the guitar, guitar,

474
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: and so we picked you know, drums, guitar, bass. Nobody

475
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: said I'm going to be the singer. We kind of

476
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: we weren't sure how to treat that. So I think

477
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: we all left that alone. And I think we all

478
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: sort of maybe dabbled in it here and there, and

479
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: you know, over the next year. Um, it turned out

480
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: it was gonna be me. Okay, so you're gonna get

481
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: You go home and you say, Mom and dad, I

482
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: want a guitar. It was my Christmas present. And how

483
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: did you how did you decide what guitar you want?

484
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: We went to the music store and asked it was.

485
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: It was a Hondo. It costs ninety nine dollars and

486
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: Hondos are not knowing for being great guitars. And he gave, uh,

487
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: he he had me buy this amp called a bassman,

488
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: uh for ninety nine dollars also or my dad bought

489
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: it and uh it turns out it's really not a

490
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: guitar amp. It's a bass amp. And uh, our our

491
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: bass player, also got a bass for Christmas and they

492
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: bought him a PV backstage, which is a really a

493
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: guitar amp. So we kind of got together first practices

494
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: and after a month if you realize we're playing the

495
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: wrong amp, so we we switched. Okay, so you get

496
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: the guitar. You don't know how to play, now learn

497
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: how to play not a lick. You know, you sit

498
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: you sit down and you fiddle with it. The way

499
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: I really did it was I sat on my bed

500
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: and I put on the LPs that I loved. It

501
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: was it was bands like ts L of course and

502
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: the Ramons and and stuff like that, and kind of

503
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: just listened and tried to figure out what they were doing,

504
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: um and and and mimic it. Okay, but if you

505
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: know nothing, it's not as easy. It's not like there

506
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: are pictures back then. You know, there's the key, there's

507
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: the tuning, you know, there's the notes. There's a lot

508
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,719
Speaker 1: of ship going on. It was a bit well I mean,

509
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: I had a guitar practice book and it's like, we'll

510
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: try these scales, these exercises, and I hated it. That

511
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: wasn't interesting to me at all, the the theory or

512
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: the scales. Like I wanted to play punk rock, That's

513
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do. So I use those books

514
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: enough to figure out how to tune the guitar, and

515
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: then sometimes maybe in a song you could figure out.

516
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: I mean, chords were beyond me, but if there was

517
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: a single string melody, I could probably figure that out.

518
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: That was the first thing. And then I kind of

519
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: realized it is gonna be barkhors. That was going to

520
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: be important to learn, and I just couldn't figure it out.

521
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: And it was actually by looking on the back of

522
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: a record cover, I saw a guy in a band

523
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: that I loved playing a barcord and the thing is

524
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: he had his thumb pressed against the back of the neck.

525
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: That's how you keep your fingers on. But I had not.

526
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: I had just never figured that out. I hadn't taken lessons,

527
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: and it was like, ah, so in a way, these

528
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: these bands that I loved really taught me how to

529
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: play guitar okay, and how so everybody got it into

530
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: everybody did what they said they were gonna do. Yes,

531
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: And how long after you got the instruments did you

532
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: play together? Uh? I think in the next months. What

533
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: became apparent is that some of us, I mean, we're

534
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: all really terrible, um, but some of us were never

535
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: gonna get it. Like our our drummer was he was

536
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: never going to be able to figure out how to

537
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: play the drums. And you know, he had fun with

538
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: it for a while and then um, he actually, well

539
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: we're this is the January before we graduated. So by

540
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: June we've graduated, he got a girlfriend. He didn't want

541
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: to be to play the drums anymore. He was having

542
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: more he was having more fun with his with his

543
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: girlfriend and stuff. And our guitar player didn't work out

544
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: too well either. So it was that kind of thing

545
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: and trying to find another guy in the neighborhood to

546
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: play drums, and eventually we ended up with a lineup

547
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: two years later that that stick together for for seventeen years. Okay,

548
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: so the guy bought a whole drum kit and then

549
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: stopped playing. He did he didn't, he didn't care, he

550
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: didn't care about it. That much. Okay, and you're in

551
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: the high school. Is it true that you're with a valedictorian? Yes,

552
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: I was a valletorian. Okay, so that bigs a question.

553
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: What'd you get on your S A T S cheez?

554
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: It was? Um, it was different back back then the

555
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: way it was scored. Um, the math was always easier

556
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: for me. Uh but I think it was. It was

557
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: a thirteen fifty. So what is that like? It was

558
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: like a seven hundred and six fifty I think something

559
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: like that. Okay. How did you end up deciding to

560
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: go to USA? Um? I really felt tight with the

561
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: guys who are hanging out with and the idea of

562
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: starting over another state. I just I felt like I

563
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: wanted to stay closer to home to go to school.

564
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: So to me, that meant UM either USC or U

565
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 1: C l A. UM. I thought I was interested in

566
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: the Air Force Academy because I wanted to fly, but

567
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: um I had I had to wark glasses or contacts,

568
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: so I was going to be eliminated from the pilot category.

569
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: So I I nixed that off the list and I

570
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: applied to both USC and U C l A. They

571
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: both admitted me and the U C U C l

572
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: A letter. I'm not bagging on U. C. L A

573
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: by the way, but they said, congratulations, we're in. We'll

574
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: see in October. The USC letter said, congratulations, you're in.

575
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: We'd love to welcome to your reception, and we want

576
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: to talk to you about a scholarship and please come

577
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: hang out with us. And here talk to this guy,

578
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 1: this professor. So they were they were very much recruiting.

579
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: But um, but it really made me feel much more

580
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: wanted at USC. So did you get a scholarship of USA?

581
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: I did. I got a couple of them that. Um. Again,

582
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how my parents would have afforded. I

583
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: don't think they could have. But um, my scholarships paid

584
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: about se my tuition, so you didn't have to borrow

585
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: any money. No, my parents were able to handle the other.

586
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: And then did you live on campus or near campus? Yep?

587
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: Lived in the dorms the first year and then on

588
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: student housing the other three years. Let's go back at

589
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: chapter what was your valedictorian speech? Uh? Well, in all fairness,

590
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: there were they didn't have a p classes then, so

591
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: there were there were three people that had all ace

592
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: four point oh was as much as you could get

593
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: back then, and so we all had to give a speech,

594
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: and mine was just kind of like, I didn't Frankly,

595
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: I didn't feel comfortable being on stage for a long speech,

596
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: so I kept it short. I just kind of said, hey, everybody,

597
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, we've all got we all have a shot

598
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: at success. Please, you know, keep that in mind and

599
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: make the most of your chance. Okay, when you go

600
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: to USC is the dream to be a rock star? No,

601
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: I was pre mad. I thought I was interested in surgery. UM.

602
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: Cardiac surgery really appealed to me. I thought at the time.

603
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: You know, when you think you have something in mine

604
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: that you want to do, as you know, it's hard

605
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: to know. Sometimes it feels natural and it stays that way,

606
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes what you learn about it, you're like, oh, actually,

607
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I love it as much as

608
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: I thought I did. So, Uh, I was interested in

609
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: in medicine, and uh, you don't major in medicine, you

610
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: major in biology usually, Uh, if you're gonna take that path,

611
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: So that's what I was doing. But I was starting

612
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: to become really into the band, and I was really

613
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: excited about this. UM. You know, we had now been

614
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: playing guitars for six months and maybe we were going

615
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: to write a song or something. So, uh, I would

616
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: come home on the weekends and that's how we did

617
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: our our band practices, that we would we would jam

618
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: every weekend, all weekend. Okay, So at this point it's

619
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: the solid members for seventeen years. When do you play

620
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: your first gig for money? Yeah? No, sorry that we

621
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: had been our first guys. Yeah. I mean, if we're

622
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: going back to the beginning of the band, Um, it

623
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: was just a couple of years. Um, the first show

624
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: that I can remember, it was a show in Santa

625
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Cruz where we opened for another punk band called White

626
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: Flag and and having you know, terrible stage fright and

627
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: there was only forty people there, and um, it was

628
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: terrifying and it was exciting and it was exhilarating, and uh,

629
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: it was everything I wanted because it was like, you're

630
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: with your buddies, you're driving away somewhere for the weekend,

631
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: you're drinking beer, You're it's a disadventure. It was really

632
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: what it was. The money was completely not important at all.

633
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: It'd be great if you get your gas covered, but

634
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: I think we got forty dollars. How did you get

635
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: a gig in Santa Cruz. Uh, you know, I've started

636
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: looking around, really trying whatever I could find. A big

637
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: resource back then where the fanzines. Fanzines like Flip Side

638
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: magazine and stuff, and they would say here's a booking

639
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: agent or here's a promoter, or they would talk about

640
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: shows around the country and saying here's this club in

641
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz that's had shows, and we would call them

642
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: up ourselves and say, hey, can we can we get

643
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: a show and maybe send him a demo tape. Okay,

644
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: And at this point you're playing in Santa Cruz all originals? Yeah,

645
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: how do you write those songs? That? Did any of

646
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: them make the cut further down the line? I don't

647
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: think so. I think let me see if I can

648
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: even remember all these. I felt like it's kind of

649
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: this joke, but like, look, if you're gonna start a

650
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: punk band, there's four songs you got it right right away.

651
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: There's four bases you gotta cover. One of them is

652
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: an anti police song, one of them is an anti

653
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: war song. Uh, one of them is uh I'm depressed

654
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: and I want to die song, and the fourth one

655
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: is my girlfriend's a bitch. So those were the first

656
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: four songs that we wrote. I think, okay, so you

657
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: play in Santa Cruz, you have a good weekend. What's

658
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: the next step after that? Uh, it was getting shows

659
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: wherever we could. It was really hard in those days

660
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: because there were no steady venues, especially for for punk rock, right.

661
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, the the sunset scene was kind of happening,

662
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: but we were never going to get a show at

663
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: the Whiskey and Go Go, and we couldn't draw anybody anyway.

664
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: And even the anti club I thought was the punk

665
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: Is Club in l A. And they didn't want to

666
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: book us. They're like, yeah, we're not really booking punk bands. So,

667
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: as you probably remember, these shows would pop up once

668
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: in a while at a vf W hall or something.

669
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 1: It was like maybe, if you're lucky, you could get

670
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: on one gig and then the place would go, you know,

671
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: because the cops would show up and there'd never be

672
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: another show again. So that was something we chased around

673
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: for a few years. And it was really Gilman Street

674
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: opening up in Berkeley, which provided um a steady venue,

675
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 1: a venue that stuck around, and we could go up

676
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: there every you know, three times a year maybe, and

677
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: so we actually sort of developed a following up there

678
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: just by virtue of there being a steady place. The

679
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: venue is so important, okay. And who was the business

680
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: guy in the band? I mean we all did a

681
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: little bit of it. I definitely had a lot to

682
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: do with it, because usually the drummer is a business

683
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: guy and you're not the drummer. No, no, no, our

684
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: drummer was. He was. He was the youngster in the band.

685
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: He was five years younger, so a little bit different dynamic. Okay,

686
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: So when does the lineup formalize? Like what year? No, yeah,

687
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 1: how far into you you start playing in January your

688
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: senior year high school? At what point does the group

689
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: formulate in the seventeen year run? Right? Two years? Two

690
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: years later we had the four guys. That was the case.

691
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: You have two years everybody serious about it, everybo or

692
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: they just say, well, I'm doing this. Uh. I think

693
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: we were serious, but we had no expectations. I think

694
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: the idea was like, look, there's no punk band that's

695
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: gonna make a million dollar there sell a million records

696
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: or that. That just that it doesn't exist in the universe.

697
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: So we love what we did, and I definitely was

698
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: felt strongly about pursuing it and trying to to be

699
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: to make the most of it and be whatever we

700
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: could be. But it was it was gonna be. It

701
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: was a small, a low bar, I guess, okay, and

702
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: you were in college. The other members what were they doing? Uh? College? Uh?

703
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: Bass player Greg full time college. Noodles was part time

704
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: college and full time working. And Uh, I think Ron

705
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: the drummer was going to a technical school. So students mostly, Okay,

706
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: And at what point do you say we're gonna put

707
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: a demo? Try to pursue this more seriously. You know.

708
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: Recording was really important to me from the very beginning.

709
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: So even before we had the four guys together. Uh,

710
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 1: I would go to a studio and just work with

711
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: an engineer for ten dollars an hour. I remember that.

712
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: The first guy, he was in Placentia and he lived

713
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 1: at his mom's house, and he converted his garage in

714
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: a regular suburban house to a studio and that's where

715
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: we cut our first songs. So if I had to

716
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: play more than one instrument, I would just do it.

717
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: And I didn't know how to play drums, but we

718
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: did the best we could. And so we're putting songs

719
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 1: together from the very beginning. Okay, when did you start

720
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: to shop a tape? Well, when you say shop, when

721
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: did you say, we have a tape and we're either

722
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: going to put it out ourselves or find someone else

723
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: to put it out. Yeah, it's not like you get

724
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: a manager and an agent. It's not that kind of

725
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: it's way down low, right, So I think that at

726
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: first it was just to circulate to friends. If we

727
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: got a show, we'd either give them away or you know,

728
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: I found, uh, there was a twenty five pack you

729
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: could get for twenty five dollars, so I would be

730
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: we would dub tapes and either charge a dollar or

731
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: give them out. They'd also be kind of like your

732
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: audition tape if you wanted to get a show at

733
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: like there was a club here in Huntington called Safari

734
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: Sam's and you could send a demo tape there to

735
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: try to get booked. So uh, as far as selling them, cheeze,

736
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: I guess you know. We did put an ad in

737
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: Flip Side magazine, okay, by our demo tape for two

738
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: dollars or whatever, but it was at that at that level,

739
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: just selling tapes out of the back of a magazine

740
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: and what was the next big step. We decided to

741
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: make our own single. Uh. And it's not that we

742
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't have loved to have a label do it for us,

743
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: but it just wasn't an option. There wasn't the interest

744
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: from anybody. So we decided to record our own. It

745
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: was a seven inch with two songs, and we did

746
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: that in and we made a thousand copies of it

747
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: of it, and we were very excited. We didn't know

748
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: how we're going to sell a thousand copies that was.

749
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: That was like, you know, crazy number to get, but

750
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 1: that was like the lowest quantity I think you could order.

751
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: But the deal was that it was so it was

752
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: all the money we had just to get impressed that

753
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: the sleeve part wasn't included. Um, you had to do

754
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: that separately or pay a lot for it. So we

755
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: actually got these record jackets printed up, a thousand of them,

756
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: and we had to glue them together ourselves. So we

757
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: assembled our own singles and it was done. Then what

758
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: you do with it We advertise and flip side, you know.

759
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: I think we actually found that there were some small

760
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: distributors at that point. I'm trying to think of their names,

761
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: but you know, along the lines of a caroline or

762
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: whatever that would they would actually say, I'll take fifty

763
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: of them. So we're selling like little bundles of fifty

764
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: to a hundred. Um. I think I don't know if

765
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: we ever sold through them, but um, I think I

766
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: think they lasted mostly for about three years, so the

767
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: distributors didn't return them unsold. No, No, I don't know

768
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: if I really cared about that, just in terms of marketplace. Okay,

769
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: so what happens next A big step in the band?

770
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 1: Or you graduated from college? Oh, my gosh, Um graduated

771
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: from college, didn't get into medical school. I think by

772
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: that time I was kind of I don't want to

773
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: say half hearted, but not a committed to that h

774
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: And Um, so I didn't get into medical school, and

775
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: the idea was, well, why don't you stick around and

776
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: get your masters and then do you look better on

777
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: paper to try to get in medical school? And I

778
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: liked that idea of it. I think, you know, honestly,

779
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: I liked the idea that it gave me more time

780
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: to mess around with the band and stay at home.

781
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: So we did that, and about that time is when

782
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: we finally got interest from a label, a record label,

783
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: and we put out our first album, self titled The Offspring. Okay,

784
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: and at some point in this game, you have a child.

785
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: What happens there? Yes, that's right. Uh had had a daughter,

786
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: and it was it was a tough, a tough situation. Um,

787
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: but you know, it just kind of kind of made

788
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: made the best of it. I mean, um, you know

789
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: it got better later on. I guess I'll just put

790
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: it that way. Okay, So you have was it a

791
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: girlfriend who got pregnant or someone you didn't know that well,

792
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: someone I didn't know very well? Okay? And there was

793
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: no issue of getting an abortion? No, no, uh no,

794
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: So you must have been freaking out. I was freaking out.

795
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: I was freaking out. I was twenty three. What did

796
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: your parents say? They said, jeez, you know, you could

797
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: really mess up your life, and like, well, this is it.

798
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: I just have to deal with what what I've got

799
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: going on. And uh, you know, you don't want to.

800
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: You don't look at it from that side. You look

801
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,959
Speaker 1: at it the fact that there's you know, there's there's

802
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: a child here you want to do your best for.

803
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: And so what did you do and where did you

804
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: get the money and how involved were you with the

805
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: child's life? You honestly not very for a while for

806
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: a while, and then it was it was, you know,

807
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: several years later where um, I'd made the effort to

808
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: get involved and that's when that's when things got better.

809
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: And did you pay support? We'll always for sure. So

810
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: where did you get the money to pay support? Well,

811
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they based it on your income.

812
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: It was still it was a hell of a lot

813
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: of my income, for sure. But you know, back then,

814
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: you you took odd jobs, worked in the summer, whatever,

815
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: whatever you had to do, you know, part time work.

816
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: So how did you metabolize this or was it a

817
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: you know, a weight on your shoulder? It was just

818
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: it was it was what it was. So no, it

819
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: wasn't like that. It wasn't processed like that or a

820
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: weight or anything like that. Okay, let me ask you,

821
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: do you have any tattoos? I have zero tattoos. Okay,

822
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: there's obviously thought behind that. What's your thought? I know

823
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: we're probably, you know, one of the only bands I

824
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: think actually I think no one in the Vandals has tattoos.

825
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: And uh, but I know, so tattoos are so you know,

826
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: ubiquitous everywhere, and especially as time went on. I mean,

827
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: you know, in the eighties and nineties, maybe it was

828
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: a couple here and there, and then by the time

829
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: you get to the Warp Tour in the two thousands,

830
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, an eighteen year old kid is completely sleeved.

831
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: So it's definitely changed. But you know, it wasn't that

832
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: I didn't like them. I think they're cool. I just

833
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: I never felt strongly about any one thing that I

834
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: wanted to get a tattooed on me, and I kind

835
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: of thought, yeah, maybe I'll feel differently in a few years.

836
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: And uh, and I also thought that, you know, I

837
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: knew that like you're gonna change, you might not love

838
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: at at forty what you loved at at twenty. So

839
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: I just never just never appealed to me enough to

840
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: go through and get one so on someone that you say,

841
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: this is permanent, and therefore, you know, I don't want

842
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: to take a risk if it's permanent. I didn't want to.

843
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: I mean, the more I thought about it, that there

844
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: was enough time like, Okay, look, I don't want to

845
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: be that guy with a bad billy tattoo, right, I've

846
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: seen enough bad tattoos that people regret to know that

847
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: that wasn't what I wanted to be. Okay, the first album,

848
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: nothing really happens. Ultimately you make the album with epitaph

849
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: what is going on in your day to day life

850
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: between graduated from college and before things start to come

851
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: together in nineties war. Yes, So I did finish the

852
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: masters at at USC, and uh, you know, my undergrad

853
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: was in biology, just general biology. The masters was in

854
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: molecular biology, which is like genetics, and I really liked

855
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: the subject a lot. I thought it was really cool,

856
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: was it was. I was interested in it, like I

857
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: could see myself going further with that. UM. I applied

858
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: to medical school again and didn't get in again. Uh.

859
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: I think if it had been USC, I probably would

860
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: have gone. And I got pretty far in the process.

861
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: They interviewed me. That's like the last step before they

862
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 1: decide UM. I interviewed it a couple of other places,

863
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: like I interviewed Georgetown and a couple uh medical schools

864
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia Hanuman and Jefferson, and uh, I think I

865
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: kind of just didn't quite finish the application with those guys.

866
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: I think I had a good shot, probably because I

867
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: I had done well on the MCATs and stuff. Uh,

868
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: And I think again it was that kind of like

869
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: kind of uh, sorry, what's the word, sabotaging yourself a

870
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: little bit, maybe so that you don't go in a

871
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: direction you don't want to go. I think subconsciously the

872
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: band was important and I didn't want to let that go.

873
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: So I want to try to figure out a situation

874
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 1: where Okay, I'm not going to be one of those

875
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: guys that drops out and just tries to make it

876
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: in a band that just didn't seem realistic to me.

877
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: But I'd like to stay in l A so I

878
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: could find something that I like to do and still

879
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: do the music. What and he thought about what that

880
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: might be. Well, since I didn't get in medical school,

881
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: that that the school USC said, well, look, you've already

882
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: got the masters, why don't you just come back and

883
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: keep on working on the doctorate. We'll we'll let you continue,

884
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 1: which was an amazing opportunity. And I loved it because

885
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: I did like the subject. But I also knew that

886
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: as a graduate student you've got pretty amazing flexibility. Like

887
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: if I had to go to Reno on a Thursday

888
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: to play a show, I could I could do it.

889
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: I could. I could get away with it and get

890
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: back and put in the time over the weekend or something.

891
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: So it was actually a pretty good situation being a

892
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: grad student. Okay, come out and play. That becomes a

893
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: phenomenon in l A. Jim garin Oh is your manager,

894
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: yet he is working at A and M. And then

895
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: Alcafaro goes to a program at Harvard, so the gym

896
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: is literally running A and M and all of a

897
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: sudden K Rock picks up the record and it becomes

898
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: the biggest record on k rock. What is the experience

899
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: from your side of the glass, It was incredible. I mean,

900
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: you know, going from zero to a hundred for sure,

901
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: and especially in our case. You know, I remember bands

902
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: doing interviews saying, you know, when we were first together,

903
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: we could only draw ten people until our first single

904
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 1: came out. I mean we drowed. We drew ten people

905
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: for ten years. I mean the band was ten years

906
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: in when Come Out and Play came out. And I

907
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: remember right when, right before the record Smash came out,

908
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: we did a hometown show and we actually drew a

909
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 1: hundred people. So that was the best we had ever done,

910
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: was a hundred. After all that time, so for this

911
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: song to get on the radio and all of a

912
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 1: sudden really connect was just it just blew our minds.

913
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: It was crazy. I mean I I was living in

914
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: an apartment with with my girlfriend, and all of a

915
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 1: sudden there were label guys like knocking on my door.

916
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: I had no idea how they tracked me down, but

917
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 1: A and our guys were coming to my little tiny

918
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: apartment and Hunton Beach saying hey, can I talk to you?

919
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: And I go, well, I gotta take out the trash.

920
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: My my girlfriend wants for to on the trash, and

921
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: it's like, well, can I take out the trash with you?

922
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: Like being being followed around, you know, so you kind

923
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: of have these moments where it feels real in a

924
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: way that you're not sure before, you know, like uh,

925
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: like being in the newspaper was something that really legitimized

926
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: it for my parents, like because they they were always supportive,

927
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 1: but they were hoping it was kind of a phase

928
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: for me, hoping I just you know, get with it

929
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,399
Speaker 1: and go back to medical school or something. But when

930
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: they saw us in the l a times, all of

931
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,479
Speaker 1: a sudden, for them it's like, Okay, this is real.

932
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: I finally got their seal of approval. Um. I think

933
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: another moment for me was being in our kitchen and

934
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: because you live in a small apartment conflict plaw and complex,

935
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: your kitchen win dough faces the guy next door's kitchen

936
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: window whatever, right and I'm looking at him and he's

937
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: on his cordless phone, and because it's we're close en together,

938
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: I can actually hear him talking and he's on the phone.

939
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: He goes, no, dude, I'm looking at him right now.

940
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 1: So like, okay, this is actually this is turning into something. Okay.

941
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: So the album comes out on the Epitaph and the

942
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: people sniffing around and hunting the beach are from other labels. Yeah, yeah,

943
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: I major labels, And what was your deal with Epitaph?

944
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: We were signed I think for another record that that

945
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: point became a legal legal issue. But um, you know,

946
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: I was really stoked to be part of the Epitaph thing.

947
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: I kind of felt like we finally found in you know,

948
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: I was talking about finding Mike our social click in

949
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: high school. These are our guys in a band sense.

950
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: I felt like we had find found that circle on Epitaph.

951
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: We had become friends with um bands like Pennywise and

952
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: No Effects, Rancid of course, and you know, Bad Religion.

953
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: It was a couple of years ahead of us, so

954
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: we weren't as tight with them, but it felt like

955
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: this real, real sense of community, and I didn't want

956
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: to leave it. Brett Gurwitz, the owner, was really gung

957
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: ho about we're gonna make it, We're gonna do it,

958
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: you know, and he didn't want to lose us to

959
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: a major um because at that time, every band that

960
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: got started would go to the major in the middle

961
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: of the record, whether it was you know, beck On Ball,

962
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: Load Records or Trent Resider, like none of them finished

963
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: their successful record at the label they released the record

964
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: initially on. And he really wanted to do it, and

965
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: and I felt kind of excited about it. And there

966
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: was again because our friends and our buddies were there.

967
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: It's kind of like this real sense of camaraderie, like, yeah,

968
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: let's do it, let's do it. Okay, how did you

969
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: get the deal at Epitaph if you could only draw

970
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: forty people? Yeah? Yeah, persistence I sent I sent Brett

971
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: our first record that we released on other label, and

972
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: he liked it, but he passed and then you know, Uh.

973
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: We played it uh a club in Hollywood, so I

974
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: can't remember what it's called. But um uh he came

975
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: to the show and thought we were good but kind

976
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: of passed and then it was really I. I decided

977
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: to do another demo with four fresh new songs, and

978
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 1: one of the songs was the first song on what

979
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: was going to be the record. And they listened to

980
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: the demo and said, you're you're, You're gonna be signed.

981
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: So just on the strength of a demo and how

982
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: much money do they give you when they signed you? Uh?

983
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta give Gret Brett credit for saying,

984
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: here's a contract. You have to get a lawyer if

985
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: you don't have a lawyer, and if you can't pay

986
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: for a lawyer, I'll actually advance you the money to

987
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: get a lawyer because you have to sign something. And

988
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: he marked up a couple of things and sent it back.

989
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: But I think, um, the first album costs ten dollars

990
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: to record. That was our budget. Okay, did Annie, how

991
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: did come out and play? How did that become a hit?

992
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: Did you really lies that was the song? How did

993
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: k Rock end up playing it? Yeah? I felt it

994
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: was hooky and I thought there was something about it

995
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: that I had a gut feeling it was something that

996
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: was good. Uh that epitaph took it to radio. I

997
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: think they kind of started just like playing it for

998
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: people saying well, what do you think? What do you think?

999
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't think they officially approached radio, but they approached

1000
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: K Rock and I got the call in the afternoon.

1001
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: I was at grad school saying, well, hey, they listened.

1002
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: They had their music meeting today. They listened to fifteen

1003
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: songs and they rejected them all except for yours. Yours

1004
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: is going in And it was like what and they're like,

1005
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, And I think Jed the Fish played her

1006
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: on the drive home that day at five o'clock. And

1007
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, luckily for us, I guess, because it just connected.

1008
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: It was like there was no there couldn't be a

1009
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: push behind it. There wasn't we were there was a

1010
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: small label, there was no money, no budget, nothing like that.

1011
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: But luckily just it reacted right away, and you know,

1012
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: then it was that on that top five at nine,

1013
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: it was number one. It stayed there for a while. Okay,

1014
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: you live in with your girlfriend in the apartment in

1015
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: Huntington Beach. You're going to grad school. All of a sudden,

1016
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: this album blows up. It's like, so, then what do

1017
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: you do? Yeah? Yeah, well Jim had started managing us before,

1018
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, so what do we do? You know,

1019
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: Noodles is working as literally as a custodian in elementary

1020
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: school and he has child support to pay, and he's like,

1021
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: I can't just quit, and I I didn't want to

1022
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: throw away my grad school and stuff. And uh, we

1023
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of we took it easy for a minute, and then,

1024
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: you know, talking to Jim, it's like, you know, you're

1025
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: gonna have to really, you're gonna have to go for

1026
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: this if you want to shot at it, because this

1027
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: is the time, you know. And I'm like, well, what

1028
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 1: if I finished grad school, like a couple of years

1029
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: from now, it'll be gone. You gotta go. So I

1030
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: I quit school, Well, I took a leave of absence.

1031
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: They were nice enough to give me a leave of

1032
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: absence and uh and when you know, started touring, the

1033
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: thing was it was so palpable. You could feel it

1034
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: changing week to week, you know, because it was k

1035
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: rock one week and the next week it was I

1036
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: would go to Vegas and then it would go to Phoenix,

1037
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: and then it would go to San Francisco and it

1038
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: was spreading that way, and then you know, a month

1039
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: or well maybe two months later, we got MTV, and

1040
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: of course MTV is like a national radio station, so

1041
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: at that point it was national. And our record came

1042
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: out in April and by June, I think we were

1043
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: in the top twenty, would get number twenty on the

1044
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: album charts, and I knew we were gonna be okay.

1045
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: So there was that really uncomfortable period of thinking of

1046
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: my fucking up my life. But luckily for us, it

1047
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: was pretty quick because it was clear that it was

1048
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: going to be successful enough okay, So you immediately go

1049
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: on the road playing how often with who? Yeah, we

1050
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: had a booking agent in place already, Uh, just a

1051
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, a girl in her own place doing it.

1052
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: Wasn't like a firm or whatever. And the idea was

1053
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: just to do a a club a club tour. So

1054
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: we're going to the five seaters and gosh, I think

1055
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: we are. We're out for like six weeks, which was

1056
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: a long time for us. And back then you don't

1057
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: even you don't know what you're capable of, what you

1058
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: can do, and it's all very exciting, you know by

1059
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: the way too, so I think we're playing five in

1060
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,919
Speaker 1: a rows, you know, doing five nights on one night off,

1061
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: So pretty grueling tour. But you know, it was on MTV.

1062
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 1: So by the end of that tour, I mean every

1063
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: show was sold out. And at that point we're very

1064
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: comfortable playing the three to five seater and it's still

1065
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: a venue that I really like because there's such a

1066
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: it's so easy to connect with the crowd at that

1067
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: at that level, you know, because you mean you can

1068
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: almost talk to them, right and so, uh, I really

1069
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: enjoyed that tour. And by the end of it, like

1070
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: I said, when you when you get a small a

1071
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 1: small club that's packed, there's an energy. I mean, it's

1072
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: just it's bananas, you know, it's really really great. So

1073
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: that was just so much fun. And then it was like,

1074
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, off to Europe and then back and now

1075
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: let's do another round of the U s and we're

1076
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: gonna play you know, small theaters thousand and I think

1077
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: we ended up doing three rounds of the US like that,

1078
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: where we ended up in palladium sized places three thousand,

1079
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: three to five thousand, and when do you personally start

1080
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: to see any money. Uh oh gosh. I mean it

1081
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: takes a while, right, It's not like here and I

1082
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: get it. Yeah, I mean I think it was a

1083
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: year before we got any real money. Um. I do

1084
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: remember our record came out in April and when we

1085
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: were in Europe, they said congratulations, guys, just sold a million,

1086
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: and we couldn't believe her, like holy sh it. And

1087
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: I think by Christmas it had sold three million. So

1088
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: we knew there was money in the pipeline. But I mean,

1089
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 1: we couldn't have spent it anyway. We were on the road.

1090
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 1: I think we did. We did two shows I think

1091
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: on that record over his span of about fourteen months.

1092
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: And the thing is you cover that, you cover all

1093
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: the whatever, the territory, and then you'd have to do

1094
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: it again because it was a bigger thing now and

1095
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: then you'd have to do it again. So it was

1096
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: it was a lot, but um, you know, we knew

1097
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: that it was the time to do it for sure,

1098
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: you know. And and we're also you know, talking to Jim,

1099
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: He's like, you should really put the work in in

1100
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: Europe because Europe will stay with you if you go now.

1101
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: And we went to Europe. I think four times on

1102
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: that record. Okay, so how much money did you get

1103
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: when you got paid and what you do with the money. Well,

1104
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 1: I bought a car. I don't know. I mean it

1105
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 1: wasn't like gazillionaires, but maybe millionaires. It was enough to

1106
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: buy a house, I think, you know. And like I said, right,

1107
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: we're it's it's a year and a half later before

1108
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: you're even thinking about that stuff. So you know, I

1109
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: had gotten married. Uh, you know, other guys got engaged

1110
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 1: and we all kind of figured out where we want

1111
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: to live and bought our first houses. Okay, now you

1112
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: have to make another record, yes, first time. You're nobody.

1113
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: Now you have this gigantic kit. How much pressure do

1114
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: you feel? You try not to look at it that way,

1115
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: and that's what I would always say in an interview,

1116
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: but I think it's natural to feel it a little bit. Uh.

1117
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 1: I feel like you maybe can't do your best work

1118
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: if you're coming for that place, because like it's like

1119
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: a mind funk. Right. You don't want to think about

1120
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: what they want, but you don't want to try too

1121
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: hard and not think about what they want. You're trying

1122
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: to just be what you were before, which was unknown.

1123
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 1: Um I did know that doing Smash Part two felt

1124
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: like the wrong thing to do. I thought that that

1125
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: doesn't feel right. We have to This is the time

1126
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: where we have to expand our our musical circle, so

1127
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: to speak. We had to try something different. So that

1128
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 1: was that was part of the thinking going into Extant

1129
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: on the Ombrean and UM. I think the other thing

1130
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: was the recognition that this is going to be a

1131
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: software slumb. It's gonna be perceived as a software slub,

1132
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: no matter if it's good or bad, it's it's not

1133
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: gonna be what Smash was, and trying to prepare ourselves

1134
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: for that, even though you know they called it soft.

1135
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: People call it that when a band puts out the

1136
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: second record after a successful one. But they're not realizing

1137
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: that we've put out four albums and we've been around

1138
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,800
Speaker 1: for twelve years and we're not a new band. And

1139
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: how did you end up at Colombia At some when

1140
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: it became clear to us that we needed more than

1141
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: we felt Epitaph could provide. And you know, Epitaph, they

1142
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: they they staffed up a lot, they stuffed up a lot,

1143
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: and they got very good at what they did. But

1144
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: by the nature of who they were. They weren't going

1145
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: to have a presence in South America or you know,

1146
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: or Asia that much. Really, that was just kind of

1147
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: we were licensing to Sony already in Asia anyway, So

1148
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: we decided we wanted some something that had a bigger

1149
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: worldwide thing going on. And um, uh, you know, it

1150
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: was really Jim going out and and talking to who

1151
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: he felt comfortable with. And we we didn't entertain like

1152
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: eighteen different offers or whatever. We talked to just one

1153
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: or two guys. And and I really liked Columbia from

1154
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: the very beginning, and I liked they came across very

1155
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: much as we're very artist friendly. Uh you know, back

1156
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: in those days, I don't think people don't even care

1157
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: now that they The worry was that the label was

1158
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: going to control you and make you change your sound

1159
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: and all that, right, and and we never got that

1160
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: vibe from Colombia at all. I think we're in a

1161
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: we're in a fortunate position already that we were coming

1162
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: in off a record that had sold whatever ten million records,

1163
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: so we definitely were able to tell the label, don't

1164
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: bog us, We're just gonna do what we want to do.

1165
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: And they were pretty content with that because we had

1166
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 1: a track record. So you go for a long ride

1167
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: on Columbia. What's your experience of that. I really liked Columbia.

1168
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: I know it's so, you know, easy to to bag

1169
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: on a label or say they did something bad to

1170
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: you or whatever. But I always enjoyed working with them,

1171
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: and um, you know, we had Americana was a successful record,

1172
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: so we had some some some great success working with them. Um.

1173
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: We eventually we extended our contract by a couple of records,

1174
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: and we did the greatest hits record and stuff. So,

1175
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: believe it or not, we did seven albums on Columbia,

1176
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: and uh, I like to say that I think we

1177
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 1: may be one of the only bands to actually finish

1178
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: their record contract where we didn't. We didn't get dropped,

1179
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: We actually finished the contract and any thought of staying

1180
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: in Columbia. I think we put out the feelers and

1181
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: they were they seemed happy to move on at that point. Frankly, So,

1182
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: how did you end up with this album at Concord? Yeah,

1183
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: well we had you know, we're free agents. We didn't

1184
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: have anything to work on and we were touring a lot,

1185
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: and like I said, recording in shorter bursts, So we

1186
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: kind of just took our time and didn't really look

1187
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: for a label for a while. And uh, I think

1188
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: there were some very basic conversations with some labels like

1189
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: Warner or Carolina or whatever. And I think um it

1190
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: was basically Um Concord kind of reaching out and saying, well,

1191
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: we'd like to talk to these guys. And when it

1192
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: met met with Tom Wally and the people there, and

1193
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: it was it was really great. Okay. And what's the

1194
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: experience of putting a record out today in this crazy

1195
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: internet era? We're back in the old days on Columbia,

1196
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: pre Napster, pre INSANEA. It's so different, so completely different, right,

1197
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, even you know, the Internet of two

1198
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: thousand is nothing like the Internet of today, and even

1199
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: the metrics, the measurement is different. Like, you know, we

1200
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: had a number one alternative album this time, and I'm

1201
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: calling the manager saying is that good? Because you know

1202
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: we I think I think we debuted number three in

1203
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: the UK, which is phenomenal and I'm thrilled, but I

1204
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: think that's less than ten thousand records sold, so it's like,

1205
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: is it good? You know, it's kind of more of

1206
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: an amalgamation of it's a combination of streaming and YouTube

1207
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: views and sales and whatever, you know, your social media

1208
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 1: that determines, uh, how successful record is. Well in the

1209
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: old days, you gear it up, gear up, hopefully MTV

1210
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: plays the video. No one has that kind of mind

1211
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: here anymore, No one has that kind of reach. Does

1212
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: that affect your interest, desire and perspective on new work?

1213
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: In a way, it's kind of liberal because you can

1214
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 1: kind of be who you are and you just kind

1215
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: of develop whatever audience that is, right, Like, we're never

1216
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: gonna get played on top forty, so you know that

1217
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: the whole. Like you said, the MTV, that thing is

1218
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: kind of out. But I think now, like I said,

1219
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: it's easier to express who you are. We're doing like

1220
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: videos on YouTube like a series, and we're calling it

1221
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: how to with the Offspring And on one thing, I

1222
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: we talk tell people how to surf, but we don't

1223
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: really tell them how to surf. And another one, Noodles

1224
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: shows us how to bird watch. And it's kind of

1225
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: like it allows you to express your personality in a

1226
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: broader way than you could have if it was just

1227
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: single and radio thing. And that's it. So you end

1228
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: up selling your work. How do you come to the

1229
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: conclusion that you want to sell it? How do you

1230
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: make that deal? Well, are our our deal with with

1231
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: Sony Columbia's owned by Sony right of course, and um

1232
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: it was actually a licensing deal. We we came in

1233
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: with enough cloud off of the Epitaph deal that we

1234
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 1: got a licensing deal. So we knew that our records

1235
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: were the ownership was going to come back to us

1236
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: at some point and whenever that date was, it's you know,

1237
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: so many years after you deliver your last record, the

1238
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: records came back to us and we kind of had

1239
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: to make a decision as the best way to go.

1240
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: Do we want to re license it or make another

1241
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 1: deal or how do we want to do it? And

1242
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 1: just with the different options that were presented, we decided

1243
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: that we're comfortable just selling it and so tell us

1244
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: about making that deal. You know, there's there's several people

1245
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: out there, players out there. We ended up going with

1246
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: a company called Round Hill, which I um I got

1247
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: along with them. I liked them a lot. I feel

1248
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: like they're very into, you know, developing the bands, like

1249
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: they're they're always they're pressing us like can we do

1250
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: a reissue of Conspiracy of one, we do a really

1251
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: we've done like three or four reissues already and they're

1252
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: real collector sets, and so it's it's it's cool. It

1253
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: feels like something that is geared towards fans, which is

1254
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: important to us. Okay, those are the albums. How about

1255
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: the songs? What do you mean the songs? Do you

1256
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: still learn the songs? You sold those two round till two?

1257
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: Oh uh yeah, well a majority, a majority of the

1258
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: publishing was sold as well, A majority. Okay, you were

1259
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: the primary songwriter. That didn't mean that much. It means

1260
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: a lot in the Internet era. Was there ever any

1261
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: discussion about credits in the band as far as publishing

1262
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: goes and stuff, you know? I mean, when you first

1263
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: start off, you're you're so one for all and all

1264
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: for one, right, there's no money or anything anyway, and

1265
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: so on our first couple records, UM, the publishing was

1266
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: just split evenly, even though I did the writing. And

1267
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: then before we were before Smash, I had a talk

1268
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: with the guys that practices said, I feel like it

1269
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: would be fair for me to get the songwriting royalties

1270
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: because I do the songwriting, and um, they were totally

1271
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: okay with it. Um, you know, it's not like you

1272
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: get three you know, you get five times as much

1273
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: as they do. It's it's however the money works out.

1274
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a little a little bit extra, I guess.

1275
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: But but fortunately it was actually pretty pretty easy for

1276
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: everyone to agree on that, and also fortunately we were

1277
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: successful enough that there was there was no griping about

1278
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: it because everyone was doing well. Okay, when you say

1279
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: you sold part of the publishing round till does that

1280
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: mean you continue to own part? Well, there's there's different

1281
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,479
Speaker 1: forms of publishing income, as you know, whether it's sync

1282
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: rights or radio airplay or you know, so I didn't

1283
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: sell every revenue stream. Okay, Uh, what did you do

1284
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: with the money? But I put in the bank. We're

1285
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: not getting put in the bank. You're an intelligent guy.

1286
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: You're losing money if you put money in the bank.

1287
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: So it's not really that simple. You have to do

1288
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: something with the money, right, that's right? Well, why why

1289
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 1: is invested? I hope? I hope. I did buy a plane.

1290
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: That was my my treat to myself. Okay, you owned

1291
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: the plane previously though, right, yes, Okay, Jim told me

1292
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: you want a jet, Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Okay,

1293
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: you wanted to go to the Air Force Academy, you

1294
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: didn't go. When did you get your pilot's license? And

1295
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: when did you buy your first plane? That was all

1296
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: after smash we came back. You know, I finally had

1297
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: enough money to take flying lessons. I would have never,

1298
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: um never been able to afford that before then. And

1299
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, it probably cost five thousand dollars or

1300
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: something like that back in the day to get your license.

1301
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: And I did it. And you know when I talked

1302
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: before about how some things you think you're gonna like

1303
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,439
Speaker 1: but you're not sure, this was one of those things

1304
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: that just for me just really clicked. I just I

1305
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: really liked it right away. It was gonna be my

1306
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 1: my golf if you know what I mean. And uh,

1307
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: I bought bought my first airplane shortly after I got

1308
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: my license, a propeller plane. Okay. And at that point,

1309
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: when were you instrument rated? Well almost right away. Um.

1310
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: I know people people out there may not know a

1311
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: lot about flying, but instrument rating is very important to me. Especially,

1312
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: it was very important people they kind of inadvertently get

1313
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: in the clouds and if you can't fly and just

1314
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 1: by instruments, you really get in trouble. So I knew

1315
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: that that was something I wanted to make a priority.

1316
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: So I got instrument rated within I don't know, within

1317
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: any year of getting my license. So walk us through

1318
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: your ownership history of airplanes. Uh. Well, when I got

1319
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: my license, I was I was renting. I got my

1320
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: license from a local airport here and decided I wanted

1321
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 1: to buy a plane. So I bought a plane called

1322
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: a Mooney and it's a four seater, single engine propeller plane,

1323
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: and I really I loved it and I still have

1324
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 1: it to this day. But um, I wanted to go,

1325
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, farther and faster, so I ended up buying

1326
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: a King Air. And I love the king Air for

1327
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: it's it's uh for it's very comfy inside. But it

1328
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: wasn't very fast. So I ended up moving up to

1329
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: a citation, and uh, I've sort of traded up and

1330
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: down over the years. This I'm on my fourth fourth citation. Now. Okay,

1331
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: so you have the Mooney and you have the citation.

1332
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: Those are the only two you have. Anything else? Uh,

1333
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: that's that's all I have. Okay, let's talk citations for

1334
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: a second. Please, I know there's the citation X when

1335
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: I've seen it, you know, citation X. I don't know

1336
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: where that's ten and they say that can fly slightly faster.

1337
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: Tell us the different citations and which one you won't. Okay,

1338
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: we've really gone on a tangent here. Huh. Yeah, Well

1339
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: the X is really a Roman emeral ten. That's called

1340
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: a citation ten. And keeping this very simple, the citations

1341
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of go up in number A one or two

1342
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 1: or three or four or five, and the ten is

1343
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: the biggest one and the fastest one. It is a

1344
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: little bit faster than commercial airlines and it's great. Um,

1345
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: the one I have is more on the one level.

1346
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 1: And what I like about these is their single pilot certified,

1347
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: so you don't have to have two guys in the cockpit.

1348
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: So because I'm rated for it, I can I can

1349
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: take the jet up whatever and wherever I want to go,

1350
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 1: and I really love that feeling. What's the logic between

1351
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 1: the one pilot and the two pilot. Well, I mean,

1352
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,440
Speaker 1: I think back in the day there were pretty complicated

1353
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,320
Speaker 1: systems to manage, and it kind of took two guys

1354
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: to to do it, and they've sort of managed to

1355
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: simplify it over the years where it really is something

1356
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 1: that one guy, one competent pilot can handle. So why

1357
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: if you fly on a ten do they have to

1358
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: at some point? You know, it's an f a thing.

1359
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: I think once when a plane's big enough, they just

1360
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: don't like the idea of something that big being flown

1361
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: by one guy. So I'm sure there's a number of reasons. Okay,

1362
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: So you have a Citation one. Now, when was that

1363
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: plane built? Yeah? The one what I have is called

1364
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: a c J one and it was built in two

1365
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: thousand four, two thousand four. And who did you buy

1366
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: it from? Uh? It was Yeah, it was sold back

1367
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: to Citation Cessna Excitation, and so they kind of have

1368
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: their own inventory and I bought it from from there.

1369
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's like they're used car lot. Okay, So

1370
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: where is it today? I keep it here in l A.

1371
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 1: And we're in l A. And I'm not gonna go

1372
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 1: check out your plane, but I mean there's is it

1373
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 1: in Orange Counties? It in Beans where I'm based at

1374
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: the Long Beach Airport. Okay? How often do you take

1375
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,640
Speaker 1: it out? About once a week? Once a week, And

1376
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: if you go out once a week. Where might you go? Uh?

1377
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 1: I like like have a stoo a lot or you know,

1378
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: you'll find somewhere to go. Believe me, I like going

1379
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,839
Speaker 1: down to Baja Cabo. It is great. You know, Vegas

1380
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 1: is very close. That kind of thing. You will land

1381
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:48,720
Speaker 1: there and hang out and then fly back, or you

1382
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: just fly and lookout what's going around? Sure land, have

1383
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: some fun? Okay? So how many people can fly on

1384
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: the your plane? It'll hold seven? Okay, So as you

1385
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: fly once a week, how often are you out there alone?

1386
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: How often you out there with other people? About half

1387
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: half the time I had my family with me and

1388
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: half the time I'm by myself. Okay. How much does

1389
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 1: it cost an hour to fly the play? Uh? Well,

1390
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: really getting into the into this huh thousand bucks? An Well,

1391
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: if you do everything yourself, you can actually you can

1392
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 1: mitigate the cost quite a bit. So, like I deal

1393
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 1: with scheduling, the maintenance, and you know, all the stuff

1394
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: that you would normally hire a full time pilot to do,

1395
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: I I generally take care of and that helps the

1396
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: cost a lot. And then what kind of maintenance is required,

1397
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 1: I mean there's all the tune up stuff, you know,

1398
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 1: like you know, in a car, you go in every whatever,

1399
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 1: three thousand miles or six thousand miles in In the jet,

1400
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,040
Speaker 1: everything's on a different schedule because the battery needs to

1401
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: be checked every year, and something else needs to be

1402
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: checked every nine months, so it's almost like every three

1403
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: there's something that needs to get looked at. I mean obviously,

1404
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 1: you know, you can't pull over in the sky if

1405
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: you've got a problem with the plane. So the maintenance

1406
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 1: is very meticulous. Uh, and so that's why there's so

1407
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: much more attention on maintenance. And the maintenance has done it,

1408
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: you're where the uh, the plane is held in Long Beach.

1409
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: I mean there are mechanics around. I generally go to

1410
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 1: Lake Havasy for maintenance. You go to where for meat?

1411
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: And she said lake Havasu. Okay, So you have the

1412
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: plane and you know what needs to be done, and

1413
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:33,720
Speaker 1: you fly to Lake Havasou how long is it going

1414
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: to take him to do the maintenance? Depends? Right, Sometimes

1415
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: they need it for a few days, or sometimes it's

1416
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: in in and out in an afternoon. And you go

1417
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 1: to those people because they're cheap. You trust them. I

1418
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: have a relationship with him. Yeah, Um, yeah, I actually

1419
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: I lived in Lake Havasoo for a few years. Ah,

1420
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: so is that like that's like a resort area. I've

1421
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: never even been there. It is, uh, well, I love it.

1422
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: We'll just say that to start with. But you know,

1423
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: very different California, right, it's very much. You know, people

1424
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: carry guns. You know that it's not even a concealing carry.

1425
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: It's just you just strap it on. And you know,

1426
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 1: they're not wearing masks and like have a c let's

1427
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: put it that way. But you know, I like the

1428
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: spirit out there too. I think that's that's cool that

1429
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 1: they're you know, very freedom oriented and I like that.

1430
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: And of course I I like that in California people

1431
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: are are are careful. And are you a big water

1432
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: sports guy? Yeah. My my parents always took us, our

1433
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: whole family to uh to like have us who for

1434
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: summer vacation, So we grew up water skiing and stuff. Okay,

1435
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: so not being a pilot and being anxious generally speaking,

1436
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: if you you to the schedule of repair, you're not

1437
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 1: gonna have a problem or could you have a problem

1438
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 1: up there anyway? I mean it's mechanical. Mechanical things break

1439
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean on the one hand, that's why,

1440
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: in general, there's two of everything on a jet. Have

1441
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: you ever noticed there's two engines and to yokes, to

1442
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 1: steering wheels, you know, two radios, to two of almost everything,

1443
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: so that you're you're hopefully you'll be okay if something breaks.

1444
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 1: But I mean it is a mental outlook that you

1445
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: have to have. It like, look, I might have an

1446
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: emergency and I need to be able to be prepared

1447
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 1: to to deal with that, to know that might happen.

1448
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 1: And that's why training is also very important. I I

1449
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 1: go to a place in Texas twice a year and

1450
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: train for a few days at a time, and we

1451
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: go over emergencies extensively. Okay, so what's the worst emergency

1452
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: you've had? Actual emergency? Well, fortunately in the yeah, in

1453
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,480
Speaker 1: the real world. You know, these planes are really reliable,

1454
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 1: so uh you know. Um, Actually, I had a light

1455
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,840
Speaker 1: come on once that said you might have a clog

1456
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: in your fuel system and it means you should land

1457
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,799
Speaker 1: right away. I was over Palm Spring, so I landed

1458
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 1: and it turned out it was just a faulty light,

1459
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: so I didn't have a problem, but it looked like

1460
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: I might have a major problem if I didn't land quickly.

1461
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 1: And how about just experience fly? You ever have a

1462
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: bad experience? Uh well, I almost flew over the bush

1463
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: ranch once. I was flying in Texas, and you know,

1464
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 1: and generally you're on with air traffic controllers, but I

1465
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 1: just felt like being not talking to anybody, which which

1466
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 1: you can is perfectly legal and you can do as

1467
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: long as you stay with in certain parameters. You can't

1468
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 1: go too high blah blah. But one of one of

1469
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: the main things you have to do flying they call

1470
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 1: this VFR, is that you have to make sure you

1471
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,799
Speaker 1: don't go into any airspace, uh you know around here'd

1472
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: be l A X for example or something. So I

1473
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,840
Speaker 1: was cruising along and I actually did talk to a

1474
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 1: controller for a minute and said blah blah blah, and

1475
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: he said, okay, yeah, I go ahead and go to

1476
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: wherever you're going. He goes, and don't forget about the

1477
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 1: bush ranch there, and I'm like what, I'm looking around

1478
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, this is before we had

1479
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: those great screens of GPS. I'm like, only, funk, where's

1480
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 1: the where's the A tranch? And so I wasn't sure

1481
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: what to do, so I just took a hard left

1482
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,680
Speaker 1: and went like fifty miles the other way to make

1483
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 1: sure I didn't accidentally go over that. You wouldn't You

1484
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:10,679
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do that and get in big trouble. Okay,

1485
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: Jim told me that you flew them to tell your ride.

1486
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 1: I didn't get this deep, but I have to ask you.

1487
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 1: Did you take them in to the tell your ride

1488
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: airport right and tell your ryde? I didn't, um because

1489
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: that's like one of the scariest airports. Yeah, you know,

1490
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it would be fun to fly into,

1491
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: but you know, if I'm flying somebody in their family,

1492
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 1: I don't need that level of excitement, So you know,

1493
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 1: I might I might bring another pilot, you know. I uh,

1494
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: if we ever take the plane on tour, I always

1495
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:41,599
Speaker 1: bring a pilot. So that's one thing that you can

1496
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: do to help the situation. But what we do is

1497
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: we land at Montrose. It's just it's about it. It's

1498
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: it's like at the bottom of the mountain. It's down

1499
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: the hill. I've been there. But okay, I assume you

1500
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 1: took another pilot. What would that add to your situation?

1501
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 1: What kind of situation? Now you say, if I was

1502
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 1: going to go into a hairy airport, I might bring

1503
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 1: another pilot. What would be the thinking there? Oh, well,

1504
01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 1: like if we're for example, if we're on tour, I'll

1505
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 1: bring on the pilot just because I don't mean I

1506
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 1: don't want to be responsible for everything in the plane

1507
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 1: and then going to do the show and then coming

1508
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: back to the airport and making sure that the gas

1509
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: gun on the plane and the credit card, you know,

1510
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: bill was paid and all that stuff. So it's really

1511
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 1: just offloading the responsibilities of of of being you know,

1512
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 1: being charge of the airplane. So when you go on tour,

1513
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 1: you do take your plane. Um in North America generally,

1514
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 1: not always, it depends on a couple of factors. But okay,

1515
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 1: well some uh, you know, big acts, they have a

1516
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: base and they'll fly out for every gig, Like they'll

1517
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 1: base in Chicago and they'll go to different gigs. How

1518
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 1: do you do it? Sure? Hubbing? I love hubbing. It's great,

1519
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, the small pleasures you get used to. You know,

1520
01:16:57,880 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: I don't mind being on a bus. But you know,

1521
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: we've been on of us for twenty five years, like

1522
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: you know, it does get old after a while, and

1523
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: the idea of you go into the place you check in,

1524
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: you don't bother unpacked because you're gonna be leaving the

1525
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:12,759
Speaker 1: next day. Right, So the idea of being in one place,

1526
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: one hotel, for five or six nights is really appealing, right,

1527
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 1: But of course it it makes the costs go way

1528
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 1: up because you're flying twice as far going back. So

1529
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,760
Speaker 1: you have to take that any consideration whether it's worth it.

1530
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,479
Speaker 1: So I'd say, you know, we we hubbed generally, like

1531
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: in New York, maybe because the East Coast stuff is

1532
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 1: all pretty convenient to get to, and other than that,

1533
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: we tend to hop from place to place. Okay, but

1534
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:40,760
Speaker 1: that plane can't fly all your gear. No, no, just

1535
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: the band, just the band. Let's switch gears. You have

1536
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,480
Speaker 1: this hot sauce, and I take all these vanity projects

1537
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. Also talking about food, but

1538
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: yours is the best vanity hot sauce I've ever and

1539
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: I you know, I use it on a regular basis.

1540
01:17:57,600 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 1: For a long time, I was looked on the green

1541
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: thinking there was a little too much bite in the

1542
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 1: hotter one. But I go back and forth now, So

1543
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: tell us about the development of the hot sauce. Well,

1544
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 1: I gotta say, like I feel like, I must be

1545
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,599
Speaker 1: the luckiest guy in the music business because I've gotten

1546
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 1: a positive review from you on a song and a

1547
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:20,679
Speaker 1: hot sauce. I mean that happens. Uh, you know, growing

1548
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: up in southern California, just you know, Mexican food was

1549
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,760
Speaker 1: always part of the deal. And I love Mexican food

1550
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 1: and I love the culture here, and hot sauce was

1551
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: part of it. And it was almost just like on

1552
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: a whim one day, looking at the bottle while I'm

1553
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: pouring it on a taco, like it would be funny

1554
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 1: to make a hot sauce. Like it was just like

1555
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: that much of a random thought, and I just thought,

1556
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm gonna do this because it

1557
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 1: would be real, it would be funny. That was kind

1558
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 1: of the the the only reason the impetus. And but

1559
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to I don't know how to cook.

1560
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: So but I mean, well, ship, we don't know how

1561
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 1: to play guitars. That didn't stop us from starting a band,

1562
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:55,679
Speaker 1: so I won't. I won't let cooking stop me from

1563
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 1: making a hot sauce. So, uh, you know, where do

1564
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 1: you go? You go to the internet. This is probably

1565
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, so there were not really recipes for

1566
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,799
Speaker 1: hot sauce On the internet, there's a lot of sausa recipes,

1567
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: but not so much for hot sauce, so that really

1568
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 1: took a lot more figuring out. Took me a couple

1569
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: of years to get a recipe together that I liked,

1570
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 1: and finally got this together and decided to make Christmas

1571
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 1: presents out of it. I'm gonna send it to my

1572
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: buddies and my accountant that kind of thing, and the

1573
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: feedback was really really phenomenal. They're like, this is good, like, oh,

1574
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: thank you, Like, no, dude, this is you gotta put

1575
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: this out. This is really good. So they kind of

1576
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 1: encouraged me to try to release it. Okay, from the

1577
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 1: commercial perspective, there are three. Which one did you send

1578
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 1: to your buddies? The first one was the red that's

1579
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 1: kind of your general all purpose hot sauce, right, and

1580
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: then how did you decide you were going to have three? Uh? Well,

1581
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,679
Speaker 1: I mean I think that the main idea with with

1582
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 1: with my hot sauces. I wanted a Mexican style hot sauce,

1583
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: which means generally less of vinegary, and I wanted it

1584
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 1: to taste it and not just be hot. I think

1585
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 1: a lot of brands. They're they're caught up in the

1586
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: idea of we want to you know, burn your ass off,

1587
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 1: and they don't taste very good. So but I think

1588
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,639
Speaker 1: a red and a green is just kind of natural, uh,

1589
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: two sides of the coin, right, So as I always

1590
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 1: knew I was gonna do a green, and then as

1591
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: as that went on, you know, you can you can

1592
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 1: see over the last decade, people's palates are changing and

1593
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: people are into spicy stuff way more than they were,

1594
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: so there was kind of this demand for an extra

1595
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 1: spicy one. That's why I did the super hot. Is

1596
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 1: this a business when you say business in in a

1597
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 1: in a yeah, in a vague sense. Uh no, I

1598
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 1: mean we we actually we pay the bills, but barely. Okay,

1599
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 1: so you can buy it on Amazon. How much availability

1600
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: is there outside that? Yeah, I mean, my my goal

1601
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 1: on this was to be just kind of a regular

1602
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: supermarket brand, not not trying to be a boutique brand,

1603
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I kind of want to get it

1604
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 1: out there, so you go after the big change. You know,

1605
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 1: we got into Kroger, which is a really big one.

1606
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 1: That one was like two thousand stores nationally by itself.

1607
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: So Amazon is is huge for us. It's been great. Um,

1608
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 1: but I think we're probably in about four thousand stores,

1609
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:19,120
Speaker 1: four or five thousand stores in the US. What do

1610
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:20,720
Speaker 1: you know? What would I know about a storage You

1611
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 1: can get in, but if it doesn't sell, they pull it. Yes, Yeah,

1612
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 1: that was the on thing I didn't know about the

1613
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 1: hot sauce business. The grocery business. Right, it's slotting like

1614
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 1: a crazy business. It's a lot more fun to create

1615
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: a hot sauce and creative brand than it is to

1616
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 1: actually do the work and and sell it. How many

1617
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 1: people are working on the hot slace business. We've We've

1618
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:44,240
Speaker 1: got about four people in the office. It's a it's

1619
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 1: a small company. It's you know, a real labor of love. Um.

1620
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 1: I like it because it's like I feel like it's

1621
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's a it's a calling card, it's

1622
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a fun thing to give to people,

1623
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 1: and people kind of get a kick out of it,

1624
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 1: you know when they see you know, it's like pizza.

1625
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: Everybody likes to here's a bottle of hot sauce. Okay,

1626
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: and marketing what is keeping people buying it? Yeah? I'm

1627
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:11,559
Speaker 1: not really sure. I mean I knew that I didn't

1628
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 1: want to do traditional marketing, you know when when I

1629
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 1: I used to have a record label a long time ago,

1630
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 1: and I just didn't believe that the magazine adds really

1631
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 1: did anything, um, at least not at this level. Maybe

1632
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 1: if you're a giant company, then that constant presence is important,

1633
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,600
Speaker 1: but I wanted to just be word of mouth. So

1634
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: I was trying to sell it to restaurants and and

1635
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,360
Speaker 1: just get you know, good reviews online. And it's still

1636
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: kind of where it's at. It's pretty much a word

1637
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 1: of mouth kind of product. Okay, your Dexter because because

1638
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 1: that's not your given name. No, no, my real name

1639
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:49,280
Speaker 1: is Brian I. I uh. Again, going back to all

1640
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,080
Speaker 1: our influences, the punk rock influences, they always had kind

1641
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:56,640
Speaker 1: of wacky names, and I like that, and I like that,

1642
01:22:56,680 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, in the rock world, you'd be like, I

1643
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:02,880
Speaker 1: don't know, it would be some really cool name Ian

1644
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: or something like that, you know, Magnus or something, and

1645
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny to do something that was

1646
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 1: the opposite of that, And to me, Dexter just seemed

1647
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 1: like the complete opposite of a cool name, and you

1648
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 1: just came up with it. Yourself. I just like that. Yeah,

1649
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: I mean the Descendants. Their singer's name is Milo, which

1650
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 1: I think it's It makes it because he's the songs

1651
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 1: are so rad. I love the Descendants, and having him

1652
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 1: be named Milo, it made him even cooler. I thought, Okay, now,

1653
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: how about going back to finish your degree. How did

1654
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:36,839
Speaker 1: you decide to do that and how did you actually

1655
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 1: squeeze it in? Yeah, the USC was a leave of absence,

1656
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,640
Speaker 1: so technically I didn't I wasn't gone from USC. But

1657
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,439
Speaker 1: I think it's only supposed to Its supposed to expire

1658
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 1: after a few years, and you know, we're really busy

1659
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:50,080
Speaker 1: for a long time. And I think it was like,

1660
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, she's fifteen years almost twenty years later that

1661
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 1: I started thinking about it, going, gosh, that's always been

1662
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: it's gonna be on my bucket list, but cheez is

1663
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:01,280
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot to do. But it didn't seem

1664
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: so imperative, like we have to get a record out

1665
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: this year the way it did, you know, ten years before.

1666
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 1: So I went back and visited with a couple of

1667
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 1: my old professors and it was great, and they kind

1668
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: of told me that the door would probably be open

1669
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 1: still and that they would kind of they would sign

1670
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 1: off on it and let me come back if I

1671
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 1: wanted to finish. They encouraged me to do it, and

1672
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 1: I decided to do it because I knew that that

1673
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 1: door would not be open too many more years, right,

1674
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: they would retire or go away or you know, it

1675
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: just be too long. So I decided to to go back,

1676
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 1: thinking that I could probably finish this in a couple

1677
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,320
Speaker 1: of years. I had done quite a bit of work

1678
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: by the time the band took off. Um, I had

1679
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 1: taken all the exams and the course work and they

1680
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 1: call um your candidate, and they call that all but dissertation.

1681
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: So I had done everything with a dissertation and not

1682
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:49,719
Speaker 1: the dissertation is a small piece. It's a big chunk

1683
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: of work. But um, I thought, well, I can go

1684
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: back and just kind of maybe knock this out in

1685
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 1: a year or two. And uh, you know, there I was.

1686
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: It was five years. Actually five years. How much time

1687
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 1: I'm dedicated to it. Well, that's the thing too. It

1688
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 1: was a part time endeavor for sure. You know, it

1689
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 1: was a couple of days a week because all the

1690
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 1: time I really could spend on it. Wow, I mean,

1691
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: did you ever think why the hell am I doing that?

1692
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: I definitely did halfway through. Yeah, it was. It was

1693
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 1: tough because there was you know, technology moves fast. There

1694
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,040
Speaker 1: was definitely I had to come up to speed on

1695
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: what had happened in biotech in the last twenty years.

1696
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:28,680
Speaker 1: So that took a while. And then when I say

1697
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,560
Speaker 1: all about dissertation, I didn't know what my dissertation was

1698
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 1: gonna be. So there was that searching process of finding

1699
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 1: something that I wanted to do, something that you know,

1700
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:39,600
Speaker 1: the thing about your dissertation it has to be publishable.

1701
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: Research means meaning it has to be something no one's

1702
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: done before. And finding something like oh, ship, somebody did that.

1703
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: You know that That takes a while. That's a process.

1704
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 1: So it was definitely there was there was some yeah,

1705
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: some some soul searching, wondering if I was really doing

1706
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,120
Speaker 1: the right thing by going back to finish this, because

1707
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: the end wasn't in sight for a while. Okay, you

1708
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 1: published it did have any impact, you know, usually don't,

1709
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:11,639
Speaker 1: but you just built it up so big. Yeah, Well,

1710
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 1: in order to find this niche, you gotta really dig deep.

1711
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,120
Speaker 1: You get into the stuff that's so esoteric that you know,

1712
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 1: not many people are even in that zone. So, um,

1713
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 1: my thesis was was published in the USC library. Um.

1714
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: The idea is to go back and tease them out

1715
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more and make actual research papers. So

1716
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 1: it hasn't been published like in uh in that in

1717
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:40,200
Speaker 1: that sense, but it's been cited, you know, thirty two

1718
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 1: times something like that. So now you're done with it

1719
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 1: or you're keeping your hand in biotech. Well, I'm keeping

1720
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:51,679
Speaker 1: up with the reading and uh my, my my goal

1721
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 1: is once we finish all this record promo, I'm gonna

1722
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to write a paper or two this summer, okay,

1723
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 1: and in the next thirty or forty years. Are you

1724
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:06,679
Speaker 1: a musician, are you someone living a life of leisure,

1725
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,040
Speaker 1: Are you a scientist? Or you have no fucking clue?

1726
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,679
Speaker 1: What is it? Yeah? I mean, look, first and foremost,

1727
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 1: I love the band. It's it's obviously what I've I've

1728
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 1: steered my life tours, you know, consciously and unconsciously. So

1729
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd ever give that up for sure,

1730
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: but I just you know, there's so much interesting stuff

1731
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:29,200
Speaker 1: out there that's and so I like obviously dabbling in

1732
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 1: different stuff, whether it's aviation or hot sauce, you know,

1733
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: really different kinds of things. So I hope to always

1734
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 1: be busy doing something. I don't see myself retiring. Like,

1735
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 1: let's let's you're off cycle, you're not making a record,

1736
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 1: you're not on the road. What does a typical Dexter

1737
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 1: day look like? Yeah, uh, you know, flying, going to

1738
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:55,639
Speaker 1: the beach. We we live pretty close to the beach here,

1739
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: which is great. Um. I have little ones now, so that,

1740
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:02,640
Speaker 1: as any parent knows, takes up a good chunk of

1741
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 1: your day. And it's so much fun. Gosh, just that

1742
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: age of having the little ones. They're just what age

1743
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,639
Speaker 1: are the five and two? Oh yeah, yeah, and just

1744
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,560
Speaker 1: it's just so great just watching them run around and

1745
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:19,639
Speaker 1: chase each other and laugh at the silliest things and

1746
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 1: just sit. Really, it puts life into it, you know,

1747
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: as you know, a whole a different perspective. Well, actually

1748
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:26,599
Speaker 1: I don't know because I don't have kids, but I

1749
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: hear about it. But how did you decide, at this

1750
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 1: late date you would take that plunge? Yeah, I I

1751
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:37,120
Speaker 1: always I wasn't sure. I wasn't decidedly that I wasn't

1752
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 1: going to have kids. I just didn't want to have kids.

1753
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:43,560
Speaker 1: Then so you know, I think years later, I'm a

1754
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:46,120
Speaker 1: little older, I'm a little more settled, I'm in a

1755
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 1: new marriage, and it just kind of felt it felt

1756
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: right to do it. And I'm really now. I mean, jeez,

1757
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 1: I'm really glad I did. Okay, Dexter, this has been great.

1758
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: Thanks for illuminating all these issues. Hopefully people will hear

1759
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 1: your record, you know, the album et cetera. Just one thing.

1760
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: You know, where does the sense of humor come from

1761
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:07,919
Speaker 1: in the records? Because this is rare in the music world. Yeah,

1762
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if it's insecurity. I think

1763
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:13,800
Speaker 1: when when bands try to come across too serious, it

1764
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 1: kind of turns me off in a way. But I

1765
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 1: think just yeah, just having something you can kind of

1766
01:29:19,439 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 1: have a laugh at him. Music supposed to make you

1767
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:22,680
Speaker 1: feel good at the end of the day, whether it's

1768
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: it can be therapeutic. Doesn't have to be a happy song.

1769
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:26,679
Speaker 1: It can be a depressing song. But if it's something

1770
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,160
Speaker 1: that's cathartic, they'll make you feel good. That's one way,

1771
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 1: and humor is another way. Okay, And for those people

1772
01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: who are not big into offspring play, the latest version

1773
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 1: of going Away, you're really going to be blown away

1774
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 1: and hopefully more people hear it. Thanks so much, Dexter,

1775
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 1: thank you very much. It's great speaking with you today.

1776
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:45,519
Speaker 1: Thank you. Until next time, This is Bob left Sex