1 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm gotta leave in. This is all ball, 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: all basketball, all the time, all stories, all the time. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: They're gonna love this. Um. When when I was at 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: ESPN pretty early on, I said something about Brian Butch, 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: the idea of whether he was overrated as a McDonald's 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: All American or whether, um, the expectations of him were, 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, overrating and because here's for example, red shirt 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: his first year in college. But the story behind is 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: way more interesting than my my take at the time, 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: and my take at the time was kind of convoluted. 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: It was it was more about expectations based upon a 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: selection than it was any sort of personal shot at Brian. 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: But Again, in the during the times in television, you're 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: not really a throw as I was in as throw 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: as I could have been in why I said what 16 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: I said and it caused ruffled some people's feathers. I'm 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: sure at the time probably pissed him off at the time. Anyway, 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: we're now sort of colleagues, right Like he's he works 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: uh for BTN, the Big Ten network. He does a 20 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: really good job. He's also very much involved in the 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: youth basketball industry so to speak, and I like him 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: I respect him. He became a hell of a college 23 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: player and had a long, long career professionally. So everybody's 24 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: had to We've been trying to sit down and do 25 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: this thing for a long time. Here's my catch up 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: with former All Big Ten selection, State of Wisconsin legend 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: and now radio host and Big Ten college basketball analist 28 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: Bryan Butch. Your first memory of basketball is where? And what? Well, 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: that's a great question. I probably have to go with 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: the local, y m city here in Wisconsin, Appleton. Just 31 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: as a little kid, little little tight rolling around, I'm 32 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: just hooping. Okay. So, so Appleton for people who they 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: don't want to Google search it right, you know, it's uh, 34 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: just south and west of green Bay, right like about 35 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: twenty minutes from green Bay. That's it. So a little 36 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: south of green Bay about twenty minutes, that's it. Um 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: So it's cold a lot of the time, all that 38 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: fun stuff. Yeah, everything that goes with Wisconsin. You can 39 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: say that is green Bay a suburb of Appleton or 40 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: is Appleton a suburb of green Bay? They're separate. So 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: you got Appleton. It's kind of like the Fox Valley. 42 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: You've got a bunch of small communities together, and then 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: you've got probably about a fifteen and twenty minute stretch 44 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: where there's nothing really in between them, and then you've 45 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: got Green Bay. So I wouldn't say there's suburbs. I 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: mean it's it's small city living and pretty much Green 47 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: Bay small city Apple and they're kind of separated by 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, you grew up in the country, 49 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: you grew up in the town. I grew up in 50 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: the town. A city. Um, so I'm not a country boy. 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm not that. I've got a little city now. It's 52 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: not city Milwaukee living, it's not Madison living. It's it's 53 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: kind of when you look at what's there's three big areas, 54 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: it's Madison Milwaukee, and then we call it the Fox Valley. 55 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of all put together. So that's kind of 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: where it's at. Green Bay is a little bit outside 57 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: of the Fox Valley, and then it's kind of all 58 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: separated by you know, smaller cities all throughout it. Okay, 59 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: so you started playing at the the Appleton Appleton y 60 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: m c A um and and you're a You're always big, right, 61 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: we always so I was. I was six ft and 62 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: sixth grade, six eighth and eighth grade, six eleven as 63 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: a freshman. So and you every coach puts you down 64 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: there like this, and let's throw the ball to Butch 65 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: and you throw it at the hoop and right, and 66 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: everybody's fouling you. You never you get called for fouls 67 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: even though you don't bowl, and little guys are able 68 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: to punch you in the nuts and and never get 69 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: called for a foul. Right, we're both completely completely completely unfair, 70 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: um as it Now, So you're growing up in Appleton 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: or are you a Wisconsin it? Because the first there's 72 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: like two different two thousand when I graduated, you had 73 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: that great team that went to the final four, right, 74 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: and you had Mike Kelly, father of our country, right 75 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: with all them kids, he's he popped out right, and 76 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: it was a really really good team. But it wasn't nationally. 77 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't beloved because they played so slow, right, Roy 78 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: Wade said said and then yea, but go ahead. But 79 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't even that like that. They were playing slow 80 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: like before that. They just weren't good. Like growing up, 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was a Wisconsin because they were bad. Well, 82 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: they had they had the one stretch where it was 83 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: the big cat they had and here Howard right exactly. Yeah, Um, 84 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: they tried to put him on the map, but it 85 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: wasn't you know. Finally when they got Dick Bennett there, 86 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: he started to get it going a little bit. But 87 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: by that point I was already fresh from the high school. 88 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was like, I gotta watch Wisconsin basketball. 89 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: But did you watch Green Bay when when Tony was 90 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: there and Dick was there? Of course? Okay, so were 91 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: you did? Were you? Did you like the Bucks? Where 92 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,239 Speaker 1: you because Minnesota had dudes back then they were cheating 93 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: their balls off, right, and and and then I was 94 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: just what when you grew up, like, what was the 95 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: what was the hoop that you watched on TV? Yeah? 96 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: It was Carolina, Like it was Carolina. That's what I 97 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: watched up being a Carolina fan. I would watch everything 98 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: that they did. So I love that, and I was 99 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: a big Bucks fan, like I love Vin Baker. Like 100 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: it's crazy because Vin then the last two years or 101 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: two years ago, I was justist coach with with Wisconsin 102 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: heard and Vin would come down and coach with the Herd. 103 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: He's now an assistant with the Bucks. So it was 104 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: it's crazy how kind of you know this world? Is 105 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: this exactly? Like it's just what it is. So that 106 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: was my guy. Vin Baker was my god. Like I 107 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: love watching them. Um, so here's my here's my my, 108 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: my loan. I have a couple of different with Sam, 109 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: sam Okey, Sam oki Yo. So Sam Okey and I. 110 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: Now this is the story that I was told. I 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: don't know. You know wiscons best was that Herb Cole 112 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: promised Sam if he came in Wisconsin and they built 113 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: a coal center. I think that's bullshit. Whatever, there's not 114 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: much truth to that one. That coal center was getting built, 115 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: one worth the other. It didn't matter of Sam was there. No, 116 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: Sam didn't last long enough for it to even matter. 117 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: I know, so Sam, So I fly I go. I 118 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: finished high school, I played in to all Star games. 119 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: I got. I was like a fill in for Chohnson 120 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: Bill Scott Hurt for the Magic's Roundball game, and I 121 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: go to the Coca Cola America game in Indie and 122 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: was run by Bob Knight's son. Al Right, So I 123 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: fly in and two other dudes. Antony Weiss, who was 124 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: an assistant at Sienna, was on that and named Gary Bell, 125 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: who was like our big recruit from Joliet, Illinois, who 126 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: has an AU program in I think North Carolina was 127 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: there and my two my two members who played in 128 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: Market Square, and my two memories of that game are one. 129 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: I showed up at the first practice and I was 130 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: like the lone kid from California and Gary Bell was 131 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: listed at six eight and it comes up walking up 132 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: to me and he's like six moore and a half 133 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: and I go, I thought you were six eight. He's like, man, yo, dog. 134 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: If I was six eight, I'll be out locked. And 135 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: then we go out maybe after the game, and I'll 136 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: gravitated towards Oky like he was a big personality. He 137 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: had a fake I d oh, yeah, all he had 138 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: and he was a nut. But I had to drag 139 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: him out of but he was going to get a 140 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: fight in a bar like two blocks fromorrow hotel room 141 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: where I'm nineteen. He's eighteen, but he's a big old cat. 142 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: He's about to fight these dudes, but he's hammered. And 143 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: I had to drag him like two blocks to the 144 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: hotel and then up to his hotel room and tuck 145 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: him in. And was the first time I've ever done 146 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: that in my life, and I was like, that is 147 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: a wild dude. That is a that is a a crazy, 148 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: crazy dude. That's my That that until I got to 149 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: know Mike Kelly, that was all I knew about Wisconsin 150 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: basketball was like Sam Oaky goes there, he's a nut. 151 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: That's all well. And Sam didn't last Like that was 152 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: the thing about it, right, Like Sam could have been 153 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: this great guy. And you know, you can get lost 154 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: in Madison, like it'll lead you up like if you 155 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: if you're there for the wrong reason, you're gonna have 156 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: a fun time down there. Um. So that I mean 157 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: that that's the unique thing about it. It's funny to 158 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: tell these stories because again I end up going to 159 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: McDonald's game and I'm rooming within New Evie and it's 160 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: those stories are the same way, like I'm I'm a 161 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: naive kid from Wisconsin. I just want to hoop, like 162 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: that's all that's all I did. Like I didn't drink 163 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: on that party. I was about is let's just get 164 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: to work and let's do this like that that's just 165 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: the way I was wired. Didn't know I had a 166 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: girl from here there, but nothing serious. All of a sudden, 167 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: I wake up and he's got two girls next to 168 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: me next to him in the bed, and I'm just 169 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: I this is all happened at the McDonald's game, And 170 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: I'm like, what in the all right, Well, welcome to 171 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: life outside of Wisconsin as far as this is what 172 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: it is, because you do you remember I did the 173 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: NBA Draft when you got drapped? Do you remember what 174 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: what David turn announce smiths uh dudy evid ev And 175 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: I was like, man, like the greatest moment of this. 176 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: Dude's like I just got ruined because he couldn't read 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: the card well. And I was just I'll be hot. 178 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: I was shocked with the pick because I was just 179 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: like he was good. But then right, you were right, 180 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: they were wrong. Yeah, you're You're right, they were wrong. Um, 181 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: you were a an incredible high school player in in Appleton. 182 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: What was what's that experience like being like, it's it's 183 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: to the rest of the world. It's a small town 184 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: as you point out to Wisconsin, it's like one of 185 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: the three big areas or whatever. But like you were 186 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: as decorated a high school player as there has ever 187 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: been in the state of Wisconsin. What was your high 188 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: school experience? Line? It was great. I mean every year 189 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: we went to we were they had to sell out 190 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: gyms and to sell tickets. I mean kind of what 191 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: you think in a small town like we everywhere we went, 192 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: we had to get there early. Tickets were being sold, 193 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: jims are being selled up, they were bringing bleachers in 194 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: from everywhere. They're trying to scram as many people in 195 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: to the gym's. Uh. The experience was fantastic. I mean 196 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: it was we were a show everywhere we went. And 197 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: I know that's kind of corny to say it, but 198 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: in a small town that like, that's that's what it was. 199 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: Um when we went to who else is on your squad? 200 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter if they're they're not big names. 201 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: Now who else is on your squat? Nobody will know 202 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: any of them because there was only one Nick Hanson, 203 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: Matt Feet, Dusty Wabaschowski, guys by name of Adam Hanky, 204 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: Sean Golden, these guys, we're all guys, and I'm sure 205 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: I missed a whole bunch of them, right, But these 206 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: were guys that we just grew up, a bunch of 207 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: guys that just who like and we just put it together. 208 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: It was now our high school coach prior of me 209 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: getting into high school. He want to total the three 210 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: games three games total. No, no total. In his coaching 211 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: career he was there for three coach for three years 212 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: total total. He went over, he went one and he 213 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: went to so total. So like, this is not like 214 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: I went to high school in a powerhouse and it's no, no, 215 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: Like this was just Appleton West High School and had 216 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: a seven footer coming through. And the nice thing about 217 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: it is like with all my guys, we could be 218 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: real with each other, Like we would get into fights 219 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: constantly because the expectations are we have to be good, 220 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna lose, Like we have to be good. 221 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: This is what we're about. And so it was fun 222 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: because we had guys buy in, and I mean that 223 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: was the fun part about it. Everywhere he went, people 224 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: wanted to see what we were about, how we were 225 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: about it, I mean a big time. We did a 226 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: holiday tournament down in Madison and we ended up playing 227 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: Gregg Steamsman and that you should have seen it. It 228 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: was Gregg enup going Wisconsin. I went to Wisconsin. That 229 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: was like everybody was there to see it. It was 230 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: a great high school game. Uh, most points you had 231 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: in high school forty five state tournament game, um against 232 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: two played against Milwaukee customer. Uh, and it was you'll 233 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: like this. Uh. They well, but here's the thing. Like 234 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: their coach did not want a double team. Doug didn't 235 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: want a double team. And I said that that was 236 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: the tournament record for points in a state tournament game. 237 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: It got broken by a deaner double overtime game. About 238 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: a gaggle of Deaners. Yeah, so I don't even know 239 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: what what it was because I was overseas playing and 240 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: my phone blew up. So it had to be a 241 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: couple of because you're right, there's a bunch of them. 242 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: But it was a kid from Cedarburg, a dealer that 243 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: went to see it. That's all I knew as they 244 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: hit me up and said he beat your regulars like Denners, 245 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: like thirty years old too. So I mean, they're playing 246 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: in high school in the thirty and they held all 247 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: of them back. But like the hold back, a little 248 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: guy's gotta be held back, have to have to have you, 249 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: but a damn deaner. We don't need another dinner. Okay, No, 250 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: you get it going. Were you and high school are 251 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: you talking to the coach like down here, I'm talking 252 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: a little bit, but not much, just because it's like 253 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: the game there or at your gym. This is at 254 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: the Coal Center. This is a state tournament game. So 255 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: this is big time, right, like the gim like and 256 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: and he refused to double team more or less, telling 257 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: me you're not good enough. You're we don't think you're 258 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: that good. So that was odd. And after the game, 259 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: I remember getting to the media and and I remember 260 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: this to the day, said, well, and it was a 261 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: situation where I missed a free throw. My coach took 262 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: me out, didn't realize that I could break the record, 263 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: put me back in, and I got filed and the 264 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: coach for customer was upset that my coach put me 265 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: back in. Yeah, right, and I'm a high school whatever, 266 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: Like if the coach tells you go back in, you 267 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: go back in, Like that's not my call. But I 268 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: remember the media asked me afterwards, He's like, do you 269 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: think you should be going back Indy? And I said 270 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: to him, if he was so upset about me scoring 271 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: forty five, you maybe should have let me score forty four. 272 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: So that yeah, at that point, like then the then 273 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: they lost it, like the media lost the whole while, 274 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: and that that wasn't that, that wasn't who I am. 275 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: But I was ticked because it's like you should point 276 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 277 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports 278 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app. 279 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: Search f s R to listen live. Did you guys 280 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: win the state championship? We did not. We lost the 281 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: state state state championship game. We lost. You talked about 282 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: early on how a couple of fouls go one or 283 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: the other. I got my third file in the first 284 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: quarter on a tic tac file and I walked back 285 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: to the official. I said, I guarantee you that's the 286 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: worst call I've ever seen. Nobody in this gym came 287 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: to see you and I said, I dare you to 288 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: give me a technical from my fourth because I was 289 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: I was heated at again. Like we talked about our guys. 290 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: We had one guy I played college basketball. He was 291 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: a walker at more like we it just you know, 292 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: we had a couple of other guys get some stuff 293 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: later on, But it wasn't like we had d one 294 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: guys that were coming to play like we we put 295 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: together a squad. No, no, he knew better at that point, 296 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: like he he knew better at that point. It was 297 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: so we said, because I was I wasn't in the game. 298 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: So we went out from about ten. We got down 299 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: ten right away. Like it was just it was that's 300 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: what it was. Yeah, So and all we did was 301 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: playing so and at the time, like I mean, I 302 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: get it. You know, you're at the moment, Okay, we 303 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: can't let him get the file. We gotta put them out. 304 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: And I remember it to this day. So that's that's 305 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: I'll be. I'll be. That's one that bothers me still. 306 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: When I go back to high school. We don't have 307 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: a state championship hanging. That still bothers me. There's no 308 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: question about it. You know. We we lost in the 309 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: c I f UH semifinals to do Mingus my junior year, 310 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: and then the finals, but then we qualified for the 311 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: state tournament. But we were just we we lost to 312 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: a team in San Diego and just everybody, everybody else 313 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: was done and I was not done. It. It's it's 314 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: a little like the n st A tournament, where like 315 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: sixty seven teams go go home unhappy. Just different types 316 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: of unhappiness. It was like that where you know, like 317 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure everybody's pissed they lose their last game, except 318 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: the teams that that when even when you have these 319 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: multi UH state championship and there's a bunch of how 320 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: many state championships suther in Wisconsin there's five five divisions. 321 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: We were Divisional one, so we were when we were 322 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: playing the Milwaukee schools all of it, Madison schools, all 323 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: that stuff. So yeah, it was anybody good on the 324 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: team that you lost to. H got by the name 325 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: of Draylan Burns. He was there. He was on their team, 326 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: ended up playing at to Paul. But they were just better. 327 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: I mean our our first year or my my junior 328 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: year when we made state we lost to Madison Lafollow. 329 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: They had both Flowers, Michael Flowers being my team it 330 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: was there, but they had another Flower when they just 331 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: heated up our guards and it was tough to get 332 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: a lot of times was jump to get the ball 333 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: pass half court. I remember me having to bring it 334 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: up sometime like it just it was just a different Okay, 335 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: So during this time, now, did you play AU as 336 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: well or you just only high school? Yeah? What was 337 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: the squad. So we played. It was called wiscott Now 338 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: it's Wisconsin Playground Warriors, but it was just called Wisconsin Skills. 339 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: Like that's all. It is Fox Valley and now even 340 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: Wisconsin Fox Valley Skills. So it's a bunch of kids 341 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: in the Fox Valley. Guy by the name of Richard 342 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: Davis who passed away, he ran playground now or used 343 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: to run playground, passed away a couple of months ago. 344 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: Show him the driver and it was crazy. Um. So 345 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: he just got a bunch of us together and a 346 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: local kids a game. I'm gonna yell names that you 347 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: don't even know who they were, Like, I mean, we 348 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: had Tyrone, Deacon, Josh Snyder, a guy by the name 349 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: is Steve Holzel, uh Watney was from Ryan Lander. So 350 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: we just put together this group of local kids from 351 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: the area and we go down to Milwaukee and we 352 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: beat these teams. We go down to Madison, we beat 353 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: these teams. We went out to Bob Gibbons in Carolina. Um, 354 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: that's what I got a lot of my offers because 355 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: they put us in a pool with a bunch of 356 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of bigs that were supposed to be highly ranked. Um, 357 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: I mean I was dropping forty on them every game, 358 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: like and and I don't even remember who the bigs were, 359 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: I'll be honest that Like for me, it was just like, 360 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: how did you How did you get good? How did 361 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: you get good when you're not playing against that level 362 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: of athleticism on a daily basis? So what was the 363 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: what was it? What was what? What was your workhouse? Like? 364 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: What was your how did you how did you develop 365 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: your game? So I played all the time, but for me, 366 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: one of the biggest things and I do it all 367 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: the time in our camps. I tell our campers now 368 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: that I'm running those and everything. I was big on 369 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: skill development, Like this is the thing. I'm sure we'll 370 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: get into this. Like I was six eleven one eighty 371 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: my my freshman year of high school in the Big 372 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: Ten or in in college in the Big Ten, I 373 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: was six and eleven won sixty my like junior. Like, 374 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like I was. It was bullyball. But 375 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: I was gonna be smarter because I I studied the game, 376 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: so I knew how to get angles, I knew how 377 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: to create space. So again I'll watch a lot of 378 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: Vin Baker, but I would watch a whole bunch of tape, 379 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: of lot of like Larry Bird and just I would 380 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: just I would just be watching this crazy film in general, 381 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: and then any game I'd go to, like so again 382 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: names but like old, I'd be a freshman, I'd be 383 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: an eighth grader. I'd go watch high school basketball games. Um, 384 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: and I learned from guys like Darren Charles end up 385 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: being a football player, but he was really good. Bob 386 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 1: Dockery was a football player play that Wisconsin, ended up 387 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: being really good. He could use his angle, So all 388 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: this stuff and you just try to steal as much 389 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: of it that you can, and then you try to 390 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: add aspects to your game. But like here's a great example. 391 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: There's ten guys in the gym. They want to play 392 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: pickup game. I'm the tenth guy. Now, man, you guys 393 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: gotta wait. I gotta get my workout. That guy, that guy, 394 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: I was that guy. But you know what, guess what 395 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: the reason that we were good my high school year 396 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: my time, because those guys then got their twenty minutes 397 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: of workout it so they knew that before we hooped, 398 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: like we were going to do our skills stuff. So 399 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: you start doing, you start going Mike and they're like, 400 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: we want to play. I gotta do my Mikings, no doubt, like, 401 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 1: no question like that. But but to me, that's what like, 402 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: that's why I was good. It wasn't I'm not invest 403 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: I'm not And as you running here and I want 404 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: to get into your camps and all that, all the 405 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: stuff you're doing, but as it's it's always it's interesting 406 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: to me. It's like, so I have I do three 407 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: days a week when it's like a practice workout, you know, 408 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: and you have limited time and and and jim space, 409 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: and so you're like, all right, what is the percentage 410 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: of time I do I do you know, breakdown drills? 411 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: What was the time I do skill development? What was 412 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: the time I do team stuff? Because because then you 413 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: get into it the tournament, and if you can't break 414 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: the press, nothing else matters. But that's the thing, Like 415 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: I think I was ahead of that because in college Wisconsin, 416 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: we did individual stuff, but not a lot during the season. 417 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: We would find way but not nearly like they aren't now. 418 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: I do think that's a mistake, though, I do. I 419 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: do think and that you know, I have a philosophy, 420 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: and one one of the things that set me back 421 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: was you know, my shooting was a mess. But I 422 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: would work work, work, work, work, work, work in the opsite, 423 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: no I got I mean in the numbers exactly, work work, work. 424 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: And then and then you get into season and you know, 425 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: so tired. First of all, you're so tired because you're 426 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: going usually twice a day and you'll get in and 427 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: so I would get up early and shoot, and then 428 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: like you know, you you get first day of practice, 429 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: you're there half hour early, stay a half hour later. 430 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: But then you get in the season, you're just you're cooked. 431 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: And I think that coaches, really smart coaches should have 432 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: a day every week where it's like a U day, 433 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: we'll call it a pro day where team stuff where 434 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: you're just doing skill development for those players, because all 435 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: the other stuff doesn't matter if you can't, you know, 436 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: score the basketball, if you can't get to where you 437 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: need to get to. And I think that's what's changed. 438 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: Like I know what Wisconsin. I know, Greg does a 439 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: lot more of that stuff than Bo did when I 440 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: was there. Now I think you Boat did it more 441 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: with like Frank and Sam and those guys as well. 442 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: So I think that's where where it changed. A little bit, 443 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: and I think you've got to be able to adapt, 444 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: and I think that's what happens if so that's why 445 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: I think I was ahead of it. The thing is 446 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: I was at big that could shoot before Biggs, that 447 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: could shoot wanted Like that's just what it was like. 448 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: But it's also because like again, I wasn't and that 449 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: I was gonna jump over anybody and I wasn't gonna 450 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: bully anybody. The biggest I got was too thirty. Like 451 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: I mean at my playing times my red shirt year, 452 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: I got up to two fifty and I couldn't move. 453 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: I went to our strength coach, I went to bowl 454 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: and I was like, guys, I know you want me 455 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: at this way, but I can't be the player I 456 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: need to be at at this in that offseason. Yeah, 457 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: and that in that red shirt year, maybe put on 458 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: that much weight yep and eating? Were you eating everything? 459 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: Every he oh, you name everything. I'd go on the 460 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: road trips and they were just like, butcher eat, like 461 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: that's all we want you to do, like put on 462 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: this way And that wasn't the answer for me. Like 463 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: the answer was just like let me get back to 464 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: doing what I do a little bit more like you 465 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: might want me here because it's the Big ten, but 466 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: that's not who it is. And I'm glad bow and 467 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: everyone was like, you know, you're right, like we see 468 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: what it is. We wanted to get weight on you. 469 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: We did. We put you know, seventy. We need to 470 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: get you back down to fifty pounds and then you 471 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: can play the and be the player we want you 472 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: would be. Okay, So why did you choose? Why? Why 473 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: you grew up a Carolina fan? Yeah, mcdalla's American and 474 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: you and you could have gone anywhere. Ye why just 475 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: stay home? Well? I took five visits. I went to Arizona, 476 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: I went to Kansas, hold on Arizona. Who is your house? 477 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: Channing Fry? And then who is the coach? Was still yeah? 478 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah yea. So that was the thing that to 479 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: me was why I didn't go, because I didn't know 480 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: how much longer Louke was gonna be around. Okay, I 481 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: just like dude comes from into It was great, Like 482 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: I went my junior year. It was great. I loved it. 483 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: It was like they were worried about distance. I wasn't 484 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: worried about distance. But I've always thought as like a 485 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: seven t h O kid. I kind of knew to 486 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: read through the BS like I didn't need Like I 487 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: was a kid who's like, hey, can we hoop on 488 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: our visit? Like can we play? I want to see 489 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: what everyone's about, Like let's play. Um. That's kind of 490 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: so I always was trying to, you know, get through 491 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: all the the Hey, this is what this is. It's 492 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: a great university. Come here we got I'm good man like. 493 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: So it's funny because that's why I ended up at 494 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: Wisconsin because it wasn't that okay wait, so okay, so 495 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: so Arizona Channing Fry. Next visit was hit where I 496 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: went to Carolina. Okay, Sean, they were good, they were 497 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: really yeah, I know they were really good, but who 498 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: was the coach? And I knew. I knew that wasn't 499 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: gonna last because the players on my visit were just 500 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: throwing them under the bus. And when that happens on 501 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: a visit, you know what's done. I mean, I have 502 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: one for you. So uh, when I actually happened, I 503 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: was Notre Dame. When I visit Notre Dame, Um, it 504 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: was my first visit and I went to a party 505 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: and there was a guy named Brooks Bowyer there and 506 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: Brooks said it was Diggers like last point guard, and 507 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: Digger wasn't the coach, he wasn't recruiting. It was Fran 508 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: McCaffrey was now that I was the recruited me and 509 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: John McLeod was the coach, and Brooks Bowyer crushed crushed 510 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: John McCleod, like fucking crushed him and me that me, 511 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: that honest kid. At the time, I told Fran about 512 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: it and like, I don't think that guy was ever 513 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: welcome back in the program. Mom mccleoud was there, like 514 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: he just crushed him. But a lot of what he 515 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: said was actually right. It was you know, um, I 516 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: didn't go to Yukon because we called Kevin Alie. He 517 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: was from out here in l A. And he was like, look, 518 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: it's awesome. They play fast, they'll always have dudes, but 519 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: he's gonna bring in a point guard every year to 520 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: compete with you. And I was like, you know, no, thanks, 521 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: Like I didn't go to u c L because they 522 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: had taken a commitment from a kid behind me, right like, 523 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: so I totally get that, but my my best like 524 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: coach is gonna get fired? Story was this so UM, 525 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: I leave Notre Dame and I was thinking about maybe 526 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: transferring right away. I visited Kelly Places. I'm like, naw, 527 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit at the junior college for a year. 528 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: So I played in a couple of junior college events 529 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: and Alabama saw me and they recruited me. And Bob Marlon, 530 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: who's the head coach, I think he still head coach 531 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: of Lafayette, was his assistant. He was great. And Steve 532 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: prom was like he actually hosted me. He was a manager. 533 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: It was. It was super weird. Dave Hobbs head coach, 534 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: great guy, he was a longtime assistant Kentucky. UM. But 535 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: I go and visit there and it's weird, Like there 536 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: was another point guard there named Brian Williams who I 537 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: was arrival with in high school and they were gonna 538 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: have to move him to the two, but they like 539 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: kind of kept me away from him, and they're smart, 540 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: they know. So then I get home from the visit. 541 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: I had a great visit, like Alabama and this is 542 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: alabam football. It wasn't good there and the basketbron was 543 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: pretty good but missing something. And I get home and 544 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: Mark Godfrey callsman and he's like, how is my school? 545 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, it was great, and I 546 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: knew Market recruited me it at U c l A. 547 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: And he was at Murray and he's like, I think 548 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: that's a great place for you. And I go why 549 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: he was, well, you know, I I went to school there. 550 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: It's just an amazing place to go to school. And 551 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: he goes and, uh, I'm gonna be the coach there 552 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: next year. And I think he and he was. He 553 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: ended up being the coach there next year, and I 554 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: think he thought he was like, go there, I don't 555 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: have to recruit point guard. It's amazing. And I stopped 556 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: coming to something like but I'm gonna play two years 557 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: of college basketball for three coaches Like no, no, not 558 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: not okay, So you don't So you don't go to Caroline? 559 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: All right? What the other? What the other visits to 560 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: go to? Go to Kansas? And it wasn't like I 561 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: had a hope to I didn't have a host of kids. 562 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: They had everybody, like it wasn't just one guy there 563 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: who's on the who's on the spot at that time. 564 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: So they've got um, oh goodness, gracious, I believe if 565 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm right, like we didn't play, and I didn't get 566 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: it like we were with the guys a little bit, 567 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: but we weren't a whole lot because they the timing 568 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: of when I took the trip was it was a 569 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: little crazy, so I didn't get a lot of the 570 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: players interaction. I was with the coaches a lot of 571 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: this trip, um, but it was there. It would have 572 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: been I took the trip and oh two, so who's 573 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: on that roster? I know too? Now, thank you. Okay, 574 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: That's what I saw, and that's why we were around 575 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: him that a lot because they were still doing their 576 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: thing and they were older and they that's exactly what 577 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: it was. Yep, yep. So how that played out, so 578 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: it was great like it. It was a great trip 579 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: everything about it. And I knew those guys weren't gonna 580 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: be around, so it wasn't like they brought him around 581 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: me a whole lot because they knew they weren't gonna 582 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: be around. So it's one of those where it was like, 583 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: it's not like you had this great relationship because they 584 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: knew they were gonna be gone. So I ended up 585 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: getting a whole bunch of kind of time with coaching, 586 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: and that was the thing for me, Like I knew 587 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: Matt wasn't gonna be at Notre Dame or North Carolina. 588 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: And I asked him, I said, all right, coach, like 589 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: one school you can lead for? What is it? Like? 590 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: You know? I just I said, I've been honest with 591 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: like six times seven year. Yes, yes, it was at 592 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: his house. It was at his house because he always 593 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: had waffles that Sunday morning. So I asked him at 594 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: his house. His wife is making like and I just said, 595 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: if there's one school, I said, And all I asked 596 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: this whole time is for you to be honest with me. 597 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: I've been honest with you about everything. And he goes 598 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: the one school I leave for his Carolina and I'm like, 599 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: you're going, You're gone, Like this is a done deal 600 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: in my head, this was a done deal, um and so, 601 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: and now this is the thing with Roy, like and 602 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: it's a shame he's done because I think the game 603 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: changing pushed Roy out with all the transfers, with everything else, 604 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: versus him kind of going out on his terms. I 605 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: think the game changing and all the darned transfers broken 606 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: because it's I think the thing too. I think the 607 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: thing too. I think I think my my own perception 608 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: of it is that was that everybody at the university, 609 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people within the university kind of knew 610 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: right right, It's like one of those a man an 611 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: easy a take African American studies, pass it on right, 612 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: And when he got there, like he quietly wanted to 613 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,959 Speaker 1: shut it down, And be like, well, why why did 614 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: he quietly want to shut down? Like because it went 615 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: back to Dean Smith said like nobody wants to say 616 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: anything bad about Dean Smith, like it just happened, like 617 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: just we're not so. I actually think he in many 618 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: ways did the right thing for the family, but I 619 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: think that wore him out. I think it's health. But 620 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: then I think the straw that broke the camel's back 621 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: is like North Carolina has always been about we're just 622 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: gonna go. And he was an amazing recruiter, Like I 623 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: was always jealous because he recruited Paul Pierce, my yearning 624 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: through me to Bryan Robertson instead, And but he would 625 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,959 Speaker 1: sit at mid work, which I'm sure he did. Your 626 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: game right, come to your high school game, he said, 627 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: Nick Court right there, and he was there to watch 628 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: one guy and whoever that one guy was was like 629 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: he felt great about himself and everybody else was so 630 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: jealous of that guy. Right, So when you said that 631 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: to him, when he said, so he goes, he goes 632 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: to one school. I leaved Forest Caroline and he was 633 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: honest with me. So it was it was awesome. So 634 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: before I talked about the other two recruits, like I 635 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: was still a kid that didn't know where I wanted 636 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: to go, Like I just I didn't know. And I 637 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: remember picking up the phone and having a phone call 638 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: with m Roy saying I'm gonna take my Kansas head 639 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: off and I'm just gonna talk with you. And by 640 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: the time we talked about three hours. By time we 641 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: got done with it, he goes some I think the 642 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: best place for you is to go to Wisconsin, and 643 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: I was like what, like and this was him just 644 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: being real, just being a good dude, Like like, it 645 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: was him just being a good dude. Um, it was crazy. 646 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: It was crazy. The other two. So I went to 647 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: Marquette when Tom Crean was there. Scott Marytt was my host. Um. 648 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: But they had bill they had billboards everywhere. They my 649 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: jersey in the raft with a Bradley Center and I 650 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: was like you guys don't know me like that. I 651 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: don't need them. That's that's not me at all, Like 652 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: you are so far off on what I'm about, Like 653 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: this just isn't gonna work. And then the last trip 654 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: I took was to Wisconsin, and it just was what 655 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: I was about. Like there was none of the hoop law, 656 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: there was none of this. There was nothing like I 657 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: mean in every school offered like the private jets, like 658 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: like Carolina offered a private jet to go there. Um, 659 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: even Wisconsin they used airplane to fly me down there, 660 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: and that was cool, but like they didn't do everything else. 661 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: They're like, hey, this is great, we'll do this because 662 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: Carolina did this and we got to beat out Carolina 663 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: and all this other stuff. But like they were just 664 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: like this is what we're about, and we're gonna work 665 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: and we're gonna and that's what I'm about, like that 666 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: I don't need all the other stuff. And and so 667 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: I know it sounds very vanilla. Let's let's let's just work. 668 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: You know, I gotta take by my market, Okay, So 669 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: I transfer and I sit out and my dean is 670 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: the coach. Now I love my dean. I know some 671 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: people like he's a crazy person and his favorite word 672 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: to yell at his own team starts with the sea 673 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: and ends with the sucker. I cursed in the pod. 674 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: I won't say that word. That's a little above, but 675 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: it was. So I show up in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee, 676 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: where I was born. My dad was head coach at 677 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: e w M for like five years. In the sentence 678 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: at early Indies and um, Anthony Piper and Chris Crawford 679 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: Woody wore my host. And they live in these dorms 680 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 1: which are right on campus whenever. And I walk in 681 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: and this is what I love about Wisconsin, people like 682 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: is I walk in and they didn't even get up, 683 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: and there's like a rectangle of beers on the table, 684 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: a rectangle, perfect rectangle, and again hey n I was like, uh, 685 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: I guess doing. And they introduced themselves and I was like, 686 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 1: what's with the beer? Like you want one? Yeah? Yeah, 687 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 1: I'm in Milwaukee, Like I have to have a beer, 688 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: Like you know, it's a birth ride, and like, good, 689 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: we got a long weekend. That's gonna be a pyramid 690 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: by the end of the weekend. Whatever. I was like, okay, 691 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 1: we drank. Then that night there's a bar on campus. 692 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: We drank at that Dino takes you out, took you 693 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: out too, and then he leaves. Right the next day, 694 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: we go to a Brewer game because I took a 695 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: spring visit, go to Brewer game. We played quarters at 696 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: the Brewers game, I mean like it was an and 697 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: we hooped. Yeah, we got Saturday morning and we just 698 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: hooped and then we lifted together, and then you know, 699 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: we went over to the Bradley Center and then we 700 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: went to the baseball game, and then Sunday morning for 701 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: that we hooped again. And then here's where Dean was 702 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 1: the greatest place. He was like I he I went 703 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,399 Speaker 1: to Oklahoma State. He's like, you still want to work camp? Right, 704 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: you don't want to work camp? Yeah? I worked camp 705 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: for him the summer after I signed with Oklahoma State, 706 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: I worked camp the I think the next two stimes 707 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: I worked camp for him. And at his camp, he 708 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: had a keg in the locker room and had to 709 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: be floated by Thursday. Camp rule, keg had to be 710 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: floated by Thursday. It was it was the best, It 711 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: was the best, the best. Right, sell up at Wisconsin. 712 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: You're the most decorated kid at right, but you're a 713 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: hundred eighty pounds and it's the big ten. What was 714 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: the decision? Like to Richer, who's whose decision was that? 715 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: How did it come to be? I'll mean it was 716 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: together with with me and bowl a little bit, you know. 717 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,479 Speaker 1: I mean I could see how it was going. And 718 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: here's the thing, like all my catches were at the 719 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: free like everything I was doing. And and in high 720 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: school I played two three zones, so I didn't defend. 721 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: And if you don't guard, you're not gonna play. So 722 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with Gary Close, our assistant. 723 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: He was He's like, Butch, you are you gonna be 724 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: better your freshman year here or your senior year? Like 725 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: like is that development year for you gonna be crucial? 726 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: And we sat down. I was like, absolutely it is. 727 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: Let's do it. I know I want to catch heat. Um. 728 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: Now what people don't know? Um, And I did catch 729 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: heat from some from a couple of people. We'll get 730 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: them that a little I'll explain a second, go ahead, perfect. 731 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: But what people didn't understand at that time is my 732 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,479 Speaker 1: mom had cancer, my uncle passed yea, and my uncle 733 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: passed away unexpected yep. So like we had all that 734 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: going on, and I'm trying to figure out how to 735 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: like because again, how did I have success in high school? 736 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't more athletic, and I wasn't like I wasn't 737 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: jumping over people and I wasn't bowling people right like 738 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: that just wasn't the way I did it. Like so, 739 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: I was I Q. It was skills, it was getting 740 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: all that stuff, and and my catches were so off 741 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: and my strength was so offt So I just said, 742 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: let's do this like and for me and I like 743 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: part of my first that summer down there. I wasn't 744 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: a kid that was wild. Well, I went out more 745 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: than I ever had gone out, like so I was like, 746 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: you know, I experienced that. I was like, I'm not 747 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: where I need to be at if I want to 748 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: be the player that I want to be, Like we 749 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: talked about sam Oki, like I'm specifically said, I don't 750 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: want to be sam I want to leave here leaving 751 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: a mark. And I think we would have done that. 752 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: Like my junior year if I don't just lookate my 753 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: my elbow, we're number one in the country. We played 754 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: Greg Owen and my content, Like I think that team 755 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 1: we had was good enough to get to a final four, 756 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: possibly win a national championship. So I thought we had 757 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: it where we needed to. I just be honest, I 758 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: got hurt a lot in college. Um, and it was 759 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 1: because I think just so much of what we tried 760 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: to do with it. But that's that's how the red 761 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: shirt happened. Has said I'm gonna be better if I 762 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: get my body right too, because you can't play at 763 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: one eight in the Big Ten. You just can't. I 764 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: don't care who you are. Well, first, I'll need apology, Okay, No, no, 765 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: I apology because at the time I had no idea 766 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: I was. It was one of my first years working 767 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: at ESPN. If you kind of get you go back 768 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: to it, and um, it was interesting. There was two 769 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: different things. Was one with you and then there was 770 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: there was an officiating call I think against Indiana where 771 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: you guys are playing Indiana and the ref was also 772 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: the athletic director at Northern Iowa, Okay, and it was 773 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: a really it was a it was a bad call 774 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: at the end of the game and my and and 775 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: Indiana was on the bubble and Northern Iowa was on 776 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: And my point was at the time was like, it 777 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: doesn't even matter. I'm not accusing the official cheating. What 778 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: I'm saying is it just looks bad for the league 779 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: that you have. You know, like if Northern I would 780 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: get to the tournament, he gets elevated and if Indiana doesn't. Right, 781 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,439 Speaker 1: there's just a limited number of spots. And I thought 782 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: I worried pretty well. And I think the thing with 783 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: you was they were I don't remember how we're how 784 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: we got in to discuss you. And my point was like, hey, 785 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,720 Speaker 1: if you was that good, why he read shirt his 786 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: his freshman year? And and I think that sometimes the 787 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: McDonald's All American label works against guys because and and 788 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: my it wouldn't say bitterness, but my my logic and 789 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: reasoning like I don't know if you were the same 790 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: year as Kauai, but you're really close. But like Kawhi 791 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: Leonard wasn't a McDonald's All American. He was the state 792 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: player of the year in California, and he wasn't because 793 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: he was He wasn't on the circuit, he wasn't as 794 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: well known. Some guys are there because of their rankings. 795 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: Some guys are there because of their high school. Some 796 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: guys are there because of their NBA draft status more 797 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: than how good a player they actually were. And I 798 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: thought we were misevaluating you and your recruiting class because 799 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 1: of McDonald's all American status. And I don't think I 800 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: articulated it well enough, right, And it's as you do 801 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,439 Speaker 1: TV now, you know, somebody goes like, give me something forty, 802 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: you know, and they come at you fast, right right, 803 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: and and like look to just be honest, Like my 804 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: style is a lot like yours, where I just say 805 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 1: what I think and and and not realizing at the 806 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: time that I'm putting a complete undo amount of stress 807 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: and pressure on you and not having any clue what's 808 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: going on in your personal life. So first, most importantly, 809 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: I apologize to you because I didn't know and it 810 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: wasn't And I'm one of these guys where it literally 811 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me personally. It's it's more like, hey, 812 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: we're we It's it's more. It was more, And I 813 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: still believe it's more on how we evaluate what a 814 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: player should be simply because of how decorated he was 815 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: in high school or how highly ranked he was in 816 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: high school. Where you and I both know you get 817 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: to college and you'll play dudes you like that, dude's terrible. 818 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: And then you'll have another guy like I've never heard 819 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: of this guy in my life. And you did this 820 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: though in the with the Wisconsin heard where this it's 821 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 1: more professional basketball, You're like, I never heard this dude, 822 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: He's unbelievable. Where has he been like but his most 823 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: school you know? Well a great example of that when 824 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: I was at Wisconsin we played against Paul Millson. Never 825 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: heard of Paul Millston. Look what Paul's done? That right? 826 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: Like it and so much of it is about you 827 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: know what, what system you're in, getting a break? You 828 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: know that? I mean that that's what it is. And 829 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 1: for me, like at one in five and everything I 830 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: had going on, I wasn't in the mental space to 831 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: be the player that I needed to be. By the 832 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: time I left much different. Like I mean, by the 833 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: time I left first team all Big Ten and we 834 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,960 Speaker 1: won Big Ten championship, That's what was what was Bow like? 835 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: What was really like? Yeah, I tell like, so Bow 836 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: now I can call him, we can we can chop 837 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: it up. All the time, you weren't walking into Bowls 838 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: office to have conversations. There was one way of doing it, 839 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: and that goes back to kind of how I end 840 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: up retchad Like I didn't know how to defend because 841 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: I was in the middle of a two three zone 842 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 1: my whole my whole high school time, and you had 843 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: to play bows way. There was no other way, right, Like, 844 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: you got chewed out, you got But the thing is, 845 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: even though a red shirt, and I had his respect 846 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: because I remember we were in a practice and Bolways 847 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: had a guy like I always had a whipping boy. 848 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: Like it just was what it was. And that was, 849 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: by the way, what that was me in college. Yeah, 850 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: run your ass back to California and they call me 851 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: Averywards like I'm a two year ass out every day 852 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: because you can take yea And but the thing is 853 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: the boat. Not everybody could take it. That was his 854 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: whipping boy. That was the difference, right. And I remember 855 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: my red shirt year. We're getting towards the end of 856 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: the year and I'm starting to play at a level 857 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 1: that I'm like, this is what I should be playing, Like, 858 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: this is how I should be playing. And one of 859 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: the starters, I just kept giving him buckets and buckets 860 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: and buckets. Finally I'm I'm hitting the three and he 861 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 1: just chucks. I mean, he just throws two hands right 862 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: into my chest, chucks me. He's frostrated. Scout team just 863 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 1: whipping him. Who is what was the starter? Dave Maynard 864 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: was a guy and then now I live right next 865 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: to it. It's crazy, he's he was an appleton guy, right. 866 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: So I got back up, and this is Rob Jeter 867 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 1: was still on the staff and Robbie had that and 868 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: now he's the head coach at Western Illinois. UM. But 869 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: like he had that in him, like Robbie had that 870 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: he was on the scout team. We were talking a 871 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: little bit, so I got right back up. But I 872 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: started swinging that day and we started swinging each other 873 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: and bows over there just laughing. And at that point 874 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: I knew I had his respect because I'll mean, like 875 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: you go through a redshirt year, he doesn't really pay 876 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: much attention to you, Like, hey, you go with the 877 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,560 Speaker 1: straight guy, get your right on, get strong. When you 878 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: can help me, come on, we'll talk type of deal. Um. Now, 879 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: Bo was a little bit more on that. But most 880 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: of the time, when you're out of play, you're out 881 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: of play, Like is their job to win games now? 882 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: Not when you're ready, Like they gotta win games now. 883 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: So that's kind of where was that? And so that 884 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: that's how it played out. Yeah, when I say like 885 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 1: what was uh, what was bo like, give me exactly 886 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: big games? What was he like? What was it pre games? Like? 887 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: What was what was it really like to be you 888 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,799 Speaker 1: playing from bow Ryan in the biggest n c A 889 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,919 Speaker 1: tournament games. I'll say that the only games that our 890 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: practices were different leading up to it was Marquette in 891 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: Michigan State. Like we knew when it was Marquette game. 892 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: We knew what in a Michigan game. Michigan State game. 893 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,280 Speaker 1: We knew we were gonna run lines before in practice 894 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: the day before, like we knew we were gonna get 895 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: before a big game. Oh yeah, it's because he was nervous. 896 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: So like we knew, like that's just what it was 897 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 1: gonna be. Like we knew he was gonna say, all right, 898 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,720 Speaker 1: you guys are playing well enough, get on the line, 899 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: Like that was a given every single time we played 900 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: those guys. But other than that, it was the same. Done, 901 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,359 Speaker 1: Like his preparation was the same. We would get so 902 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: many possessions in as long as we were at one 903 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,680 Speaker 1: point per possession. Boom practice done, get ready to rock 904 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,879 Speaker 1: and roll. We didn't change defense. This is a whole lot. 905 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,320 Speaker 1: We didn't put in new schemes. We were just better 906 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 1: at what we ran and how we did it the 907 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 1: most every team we played. And like there's you know basketball, 908 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: the more difficult you make it, the harder it is 909 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,919 Speaker 1: on everybody. Like it was simple and we were really 910 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: good at it and that's why we won. So like, 911 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, Bo had his courts, Like I tell this 912 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 1: story a lot. You know, my senior year, I probably 913 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: had enough confidence to talk to him about it and say, hey, 914 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 1: what's going Like but I always say, coach, why do 915 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: you always sit in the back of the plane, Like 916 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: what's up? You know, Ryan, have you ever seen a 917 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: plane first? Like have you ever seen I'm like coach 918 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,680 Speaker 1: and finally come back to the coach. If this plane 919 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: goes down, we're all done. I don't care if it's 920 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: tail first knows first, we're all dead. Like, if this 921 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,759 Speaker 1: plane's going down, we're all done. You're not surviving. But 922 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: like that was that p a in a man Like 923 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,839 Speaker 1: that's just that filly guy out of him, you know. 924 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 1: I the guy named Jane Randall Dicky was on our staff. 925 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 1: Jane is just the head coach at Texas Tech at 926 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: the time, and essentially because the year after I left, 927 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: they had the plane crash. And I will never forget 928 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: Randald Dicky used the same plane that went down, well, 929 00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,280 Speaker 1: I used all used to. It was the third plane. 930 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: We plew a three four planes and he said, I 931 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 1: was like, man, why are you guys sitting the backs? Like, 932 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: oh man, you have seen one of these things back 933 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: into a mountain. I was like, you know, hey, bro, 934 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: it hits the mountain, We're gone. But without gone? You 935 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: do you do? You? You do? You do? You? Um? 936 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,839 Speaker 1: How hard is it to look back and go, hey, 937 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 1: that junior, we could have won the whole thing if 938 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 1: not for the elbum. I'll be I'll be here, like 939 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: I don't look back at the past, like the past 940 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: is the past, Like I mean, we had a really 941 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: good team. If I don't dislocate my OLP, what do 942 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: we do? Hey? The verdict is still out in my opinion. 943 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we end up losing to un l V 944 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,839 Speaker 1: and von Krueger and his son who now is at 945 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: un l V, and like, I mean he went off 946 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: and play in the tournament and at all uh, you know, 947 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: you talk about like what moments might be like, that's 948 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: a moment that possibly leads me to a to a 949 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: bigger platform because it's the n A Tournament. If you 950 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: play one of the n A Tournament, boom the spotlights 951 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: on you. Everyone's talking about your more. The draft scouts 952 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,839 Speaker 1: are doing their jobs. I mean, let's be you know 953 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: you've been on that side. I've been on that side. 954 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: A lot of these scouts don't necessarily do their job. 955 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: They just look at the board and say, oh, this 956 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 1: guy's here. We'll look at this and then we'll start 957 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: to evaluate a little bit more. But like you gotta 958 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 1: get on the list first, and you gotta be on 959 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: all that stuff. It's so that's a little bit different. 960 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: But like we had a really good team. We still 961 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,279 Speaker 1: even with the two teams Wisconsin went back to back 962 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,800 Speaker 1: final four's, they still weren't rank number one in the 963 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: country ever, Like we were the only team to be 964 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,279 Speaker 1: ranked number one in the country at Wisconsin. So, yeah, 965 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: is it one of those things you look at say 966 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,279 Speaker 1: what could have been? Absolutely, But I don't like there's 967 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: to be good things ahead of us and ahead of 968 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: what's going on to sit back and look back upon 969 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: and say what could have been should have been like 970 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,839 Speaker 1: cards we were dealt man. Okay, your last game was 971 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,760 Speaker 1: uh Steph Curry's last win in the n c A tournament. Yeah, okay, 972 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 1: what what when Like you're getting ready to you're getting ready? 973 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 1: I mean Georgetown was top team in the country. They 974 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 1: take down Georgetown, Right, so you guys got like a 975 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,359 Speaker 1: week off to a pair for Davidson? What did you 976 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 1: honestly think because every scout report I've ever been in 977 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,480 Speaker 1: for an n c A tournament like, this team is incredible. 978 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: Every guy is incredible. Right, they build him up because 979 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: they what is Davidson? You're watching tape? What do you think? 980 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,319 Speaker 1: All Right, we're good? Like we're good, Like he's not 981 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,800 Speaker 1: gonna do that, Like he's had a great weekend, but 982 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 1: he can't do that again. But he can't do that again, 983 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,720 Speaker 1: Like there's no way we're good. We're gonna play Kansas 984 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,879 Speaker 1: for a chance bill the final four your senior year 985 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,080 Speaker 1: in Detroit, where we're gonna have a boatload of fans, 986 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 1: like and we could beat this Kansas team because this 987 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 1: Kansas team, but I didn't think was that good? Like 988 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,400 Speaker 1: I love the matchup. They had Sasha Khan, but they 989 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,759 Speaker 1: had MOREO, like, all right, they're all right, but I 990 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,360 Speaker 1: mean then you know, going over time when like I 991 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: get all that, but I still didn't think they were 992 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: that good. I thought we could compete with them, and 993 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 1: I thought we're gonna beat him, Like so that's what 994 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,480 Speaker 1: we're thinking. And then all of a sudden, our point guard, 995 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: Traymont Hughes, rolls his ankle against Can. So he comes in. 996 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: He's practicing all day, all week long, and a little 997 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: bit before the game time it's like my ankle hurts 998 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 1: and I'm like, He's like, I can't go. And then 999 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,399 Speaker 1: at that point it was like, oh man, like now 1000 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,319 Speaker 1: we're shifting guys. Our best defender is there. But now 1001 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 1: when Mike goes Michael Flowers goes out, Now we gotta 1002 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 1: put Jason bohan and on Steph and like jbo is 1003 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: a great shooter, but great Jabow was never a defender. 1004 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,040 Speaker 1: And now we're in scramble. And then Steph starts cooking. 1005 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,720 Speaker 1: And once he started cooking about that first half, I said, 1006 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,279 Speaker 1: oh no, like because you knew once he was done, 1007 00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: like like we just saw it the weekend before we 1008 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,200 Speaker 1: saw the film, and now we're starting to see it 1009 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: in person and I was like, man, like they had 1010 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: a really good point guard and very very good, really 1011 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 1: good point guards side they had a decent pig. But like, 1012 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 1: there's no way we should have lost that game. It 1013 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,160 Speaker 1: just my man got hot. And then I'll say this, 1014 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,839 Speaker 1: I'll say this, that's who he is. Like that's my point. 1015 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 1: That's I'm just gonna say, like, like, that's who he is. 1016 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,480 Speaker 1: He got hot because he didn't just crazy shot to 1017 00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,480 Speaker 1: get us bro everybody. That's my point is like we 1018 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,480 Speaker 1: thought he got hot and then he started really and 1019 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: then like you look at his career and you're like yo, 1020 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,200 Speaker 1: like I'm doing TV, you're still whooping and you're an 1021 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: m VP, Like, hey, I'm overseason Dubai, I'm overseas in Japan, 1022 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:52,439 Speaker 1: like more power to like this, this is a real question, okay, 1023 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,960 Speaker 1: because I did his games that year, and you know, 1024 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm famous for underestimating what I thought he'd be. Jeff 1025 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,439 Speaker 1: Horners second the league. That's so I thought it. Did 1026 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: you do you think like that he's that's a dude, 1027 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,360 Speaker 1: Like that's an m d P time m d P, 1028 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 1: greatest shooter in the history of the sport. Got no. 1029 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,399 Speaker 1: I thought he was his dad right, like stick around 1030 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: because because you knew and I knew at that point, 1031 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,280 Speaker 1: if you made shots in the NBA, you could survive. 1032 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,520 Speaker 1: Like if you make shots, you can survive in the NBA. 1033 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: Like you don't have but if that's what you do, 1034 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,880 Speaker 1: that is a skill set that the NBA looks at 1035 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,279 Speaker 1: way more than any ever love any other level, Like 1036 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,360 Speaker 1: if you make shots, you can survive. I thought he 1037 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 1: was gonna be his dad. I didn't know what I 1038 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 1: thought he was gonna be this like, so when you 1039 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,279 Speaker 1: looked at it and you said it, you weren't far 1040 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,960 Speaker 1: Like nobody thought he was gonna be what he was. 1041 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,719 Speaker 1: But I think he goes back to the way the 1042 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,399 Speaker 1: game's changed now, the emphasis on the three, and then 1043 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,560 Speaker 1: he had great players around him that they were able 1044 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,640 Speaker 1: to build it in the situation now you can throw 1045 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 1: stuff anywhere, but it helps the pieces that they have 1046 00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: around and like you gotta have yes, yes, which is crazy. 1047 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,439 Speaker 1: He got better. Um, when was the point you played 1048 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,759 Speaker 1: all over? Right? When when you did the Bakersfield jam right, 1049 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,200 Speaker 1: it was was it just I just I gotta I 1050 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,680 Speaker 1: gotta play in the league. I gotta play a day 1051 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,760 Speaker 1: in the league. Like what was the because you played 1052 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,480 Speaker 1: overseas and the money is better overseas. Was that the 1053 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 1: reason for coming back States side? So my first two 1054 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,320 Speaker 1: years I fought for money overseas. So I was in China, 1055 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: had a great deal, played a game, they had a 1056 00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,400 Speaker 1: plane ticket on my bed. Then after a game and said, hey, 1057 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,520 Speaker 1: you're going back here, We're sending you home. Okay, great, 1058 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 1: But so I had a whole boat boatload of money 1059 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,640 Speaker 1: that I didn't get there, went to Greece, was playing well, 1060 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,880 Speaker 1: they didn't pay me. I was sick of not getting paid, 1061 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: Like it was that simple, Like I was fighting so 1062 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,600 Speaker 1: much and the joy of just playing was gone. And 1063 00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: I'm big on that, like like my passion and my 1064 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 1: joy for the love of the game, Like that's why 1065 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,920 Speaker 1: I played. It was never about the money. Like I 1066 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: was sitting in Greece and I legits it I need 1067 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,080 Speaker 1: to go playing the G League or the D League 1068 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,399 Speaker 1: at that point, and I need to just figure out, 1069 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,440 Speaker 1: like can I make a career of this where I 1070 00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: can get paid decent money without having to chase it constantly. 1071 00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:13,879 Speaker 1: And I think that was the best thing for me, 1072 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,959 Speaker 1: was not to get paid. Because I was in Bakersfield 1073 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,440 Speaker 1: and three three months later and I got called up 1074 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: to the Nuggets Like it was. It was like that 1075 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: that was that was the that was the difference, like 1076 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,799 Speaker 1: and it it clicked for me because I was a 1077 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,239 Speaker 1: big that could shoot, but defensively I wasn't that good, Like, 1078 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,160 Speaker 1: couldn't with my feet, couldn't do anything. I remember Mark 1079 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,799 Speaker 1: working team um GM with the Nuggets was from Bakersfield, 1080 00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: so he's catching the game. He just changed. He's like, dude, 1081 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: I want to bring you up because I think you 1082 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,360 Speaker 1: can stretch the floor. I think you know big that 1083 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,960 Speaker 1: can play that, that can give metal space, Like I 1084 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,279 Speaker 1: want to be able to do all that for you. 1085 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,040 Speaker 1: You gotta do something on the defensive end for me. 1086 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,240 Speaker 1: So it's like even if you just rebound the basketball, 1087 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: that's the skill set. So from that point on, I 1088 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 1: had thirty straight double doubles where it was just like, 1089 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,080 Speaker 1: all right, that's my skill set perfect and it just clicked. 1090 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,560 Speaker 1: Didn't you get cut though before or sent back down 1091 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,400 Speaker 1: before playing in a game like that? Called you know? 1092 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,920 Speaker 1: So I had. I had a two year deal and 1093 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,839 Speaker 1: um so I got called up the end of the 1094 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,440 Speaker 1: end of the year and then I was in the 1095 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,759 Speaker 1: playoffs on the team for the playoffs, and I had 1096 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,600 Speaker 1: another year deal on that contract. So you go play 1097 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,840 Speaker 1: summer league, right, like, that's what it is. You play someone. 1098 00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:28,200 Speaker 1: I rupted my Patel attendant in summer so I was out. 1099 00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,560 Speaker 1: But didn't you like when you got called up from 1100 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,800 Speaker 1: the jam to Denver, didn't you get called up and 1101 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,200 Speaker 1: then they put on a pretender but they didn't play 1102 00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,239 Speaker 1: you before you ever played a game. So it was 1103 00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,840 Speaker 1: end of year contract exactly. So I never played, but 1104 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,520 Speaker 1: that was a two year deal. So I had an 1105 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,399 Speaker 1: end of year contract and then I played summer league 1106 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,759 Speaker 1: and then I had a whole another year contract with him, 1107 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,520 Speaker 1: and before I was ever to get into a game, like, 1108 00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:50,839 Speaker 1: so I didn't play at the end of the year. 1109 00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 1: But I'm like, all right, great, I'm set up for great, 1110 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,799 Speaker 1: you know, for next year. Let's do summer league. Let's play. 1111 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,399 Speaker 1: Let's figure all this stuff out in that summer league. 1112 00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,759 Speaker 1: When it is when I ruped for my hotel at 1113 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 1: tend and and then that's when they released me. So 1114 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,880 Speaker 1: and then at that point you're fighting it right like 1115 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,160 Speaker 1: you've got that, You've got that that X on your 1116 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,400 Speaker 1: on your name injury prone, this and that. So here's 1117 00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,680 Speaker 1: this is the kicker fifteen months back. I'm back. I 1118 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,480 Speaker 1: worked my way back. It's the lockout year. I signed 1119 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,560 Speaker 1: a contract with New Orleans and I'm gonna start a 1120 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:23,000 Speaker 1: preseason game. There's two Prisons game I'm starting. That's the 1121 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,960 Speaker 1: year Chris Paul gets traded. But Chris Paul doesn't get 1122 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:29,320 Speaker 1: traded because David starting X names it. So like there's 1123 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,319 Speaker 1: nobody on this Pelican's roster, on this Hornet's roster, like 1124 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,240 Speaker 1: there's nobody. This is like ideal. This is when Lance 1125 00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: Thomas makes a name for himself right, and he's able 1126 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: to stay right. So I'm starting. No, not not a problem. 1127 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm good, Like this is great. Literally, our bags are packed, 1128 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,040 Speaker 1: we're doing one last drill. I'm out hedging a ball screen. 1129 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: Jerome Dicing comes into my knee, boom my other knee 1130 00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,960 Speaker 1: rupture or tear my Patel attendant, tear my um M 1131 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: c L And it's a right, like yeah, and it's 1132 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,560 Speaker 1: a right that would that would have been my best 1133 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 1: shot to to to like stick or at least have 1134 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,920 Speaker 1: a play, you know, and do it. And so at 1135 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,440 Speaker 1: that point, um I was in the G League a 1136 00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,799 Speaker 1: little or the league a little bit longer. Um, because 1137 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:16,880 Speaker 1: I just wanted to see like I was stubborn at 1138 00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,520 Speaker 1: that point. And I remember halfway through, I said, I 1139 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,120 Speaker 1: called my agent and I said, dude, like, is this 1140 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,120 Speaker 1: gonna happen or not? I said, I don't need this 1141 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,200 Speaker 1: fake agent talk because if it's at this point, I 1142 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,320 Speaker 1: was twenty nine, it's like it's time to cash I hope, 1143 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: I said, If not, I need to make money. Um. 1144 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: So now I went overseas and I played everywhere. I 1145 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,320 Speaker 1: played in Dubai, I played in the Philippines, I played 1146 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,240 Speaker 1: in Tokyo, wherever I was gonna get paid. Let's go, 1147 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,160 Speaker 1: let's cash out. Let's make these last couple of years great. 1148 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,000 Speaker 1: And those were the best years because me and my 1149 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: wife at that point travel the world, got paid great money. 1150 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,800 Speaker 1: You do it. I want to do another part we 1151 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,960 Speaker 1: do the travels. Yeah, here's here's here and we'll so 1152 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,560 Speaker 1: we'll do that. I gotta run to my radio show. 1153 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 1: So I got two more for you, and I got 1154 00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:02,040 Speaker 1: four minutes. Um. First one is this When was the 1155 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,760 Speaker 1: moment to which you were done? I was in for 1156 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,800 Speaker 1: Coca in Japan, and at that point, me and my 1157 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: wife married a long time. I looked at and said, 1158 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 1: what am I doing? Like, where's the end game here? 1159 00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,640 Speaker 1: But did you play a game where you just so 1160 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,920 Speaker 1: we won a championship. We won a championship, but for 1161 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 1: me to be able to play at the level that 1162 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,640 Speaker 1: I expect myself to play, it like I just hurt 1163 00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,880 Speaker 1: too bad. My knees hurt, my back hurt. Everything was done. 1164 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,680 Speaker 1: I said, what is this? So I want two championships 1165 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: in Japan? I said, that's it, it's done. Um. You 1166 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:38,560 Speaker 1: now have your own camps basically an academy. Um. Like 1167 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:44,400 Speaker 1: this is because you've built a life on basketball. Um, 1168 00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:49,320 Speaker 1: But like, how what is it like? Though? Too? You 1169 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,000 Speaker 1: want to teach kids the game you want to but 1170 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 1: there are certain kids which you got no shot, yeah right, 1171 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,520 Speaker 1: and then other kids which like you have a shot. 1172 00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:57,880 Speaker 1: But you have to listen. You have to trust me 1173 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,480 Speaker 1: because I've actually lived this life. What's experience like for you? Yeah, 1174 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,560 Speaker 1: I'd say the biggest thing is the kids that you 1175 00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,920 Speaker 1: know aren't going to get that Division one scholarship. My 1176 00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,280 Speaker 1: biggest thing to them is, well, what are your like? 1177 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: And you're just being real with them, like what are 1178 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,200 Speaker 1: your goals? If your goals will play high school basketball, 1179 00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,439 Speaker 1: let's get you to that level. Like it's not gonna 1180 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,160 Speaker 1: be to play D one. I'll tell you that right now. 1181 00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,160 Speaker 1: And I think the time that you're honest with people 1182 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,720 Speaker 1: and whatever you do now you set them up to 1183 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,920 Speaker 1: be successful. But you can't give them fake news. You 1184 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,320 Speaker 1: can't give him this stuff and his false hope of 1185 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,200 Speaker 1: this is where they're gonna be at. And I think 1186 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,400 Speaker 1: that's where we start with it. And then when these 1187 00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,240 Speaker 1: kids do get and make the high school team. One 1188 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,520 Speaker 1: one kid I worked with was not that good. He 1189 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,080 Speaker 1: made the high school team. He was a contributor. That 1190 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,520 Speaker 1: was the highlight of his whole career. Now he's a 1191 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:43,600 Speaker 1: manager with the Minnesota Golfers, Like I mean, like that's 1192 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,160 Speaker 1: his thing. So he's still part of the game. But 1193 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,280 Speaker 1: it's because he had a good experience with the game. 1194 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:52,200 Speaker 1: Let's just let's just uh okay. So we'll set up 1195 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,840 Speaker 1: this part two for next week and that way we 1196 00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,640 Speaker 1: can run him kind of back to back. But here's 1197 00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: the it's interesting. Brad Stevens. I asked him about his time. 1198 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 1: I think it's Brady, and I said, how's he doing. 1199 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,880 Speaker 1: He's like, he'll play high school basketball. Maybe I played 1200 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,320 Speaker 1: B three And we can play the three. He's like, 1201 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,080 Speaker 1: but you know what, he's gonna grow up loving the game, 1202 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,160 Speaker 1: being around the game, and if he wants to, he 1203 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,040 Speaker 1: can make a life out of the game, which isn't 1204 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, but it's really hard for a kid when 1205 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,040 Speaker 1: they're twelve, thirteen, fourteen to have that perspective, you know 1206 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:23,680 Speaker 1: it is, so you just gotta be honest. That's the 1207 01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,360 Speaker 1: biggest thing, man. That's what we try to do with 1208 01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,440 Speaker 1: all of our kids, and it you know, as long 1209 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,360 Speaker 1: as they love it, you can do it like we 1210 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: like you've done, like I've done. Like it's just you know, 1211 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,160 Speaker 1: doing BT and doing everything that we're doing that I'm 1212 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,400 Speaker 1: doing now, like it's just because you treat the game. 1213 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,600 Speaker 1: George Carl said it to me at a young age. 1214 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,640 Speaker 1: If you treat the game well, the game will be 1215 01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,160 Speaker 1: good to you. I don't know if I agree with that. 1216 01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:46,360 Speaker 1: That's for our that's for our next part. Okay, par 1217 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 1: that's far. That that's that's that's far our next part. 1218 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,560 Speaker 1: In the meantime, I really appreciate you having me on 1219 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 1: and know how big you are. And we'll do part 1220 01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,800 Speaker 1: two very very soon. All right, sounds good. Thanks? All right, 1221 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,840 Speaker 1: that's part one Brian Butch. I wanted to get to 1222 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,760 Speaker 1: him playing overseas and what those stories were actually like. 1223 01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:07,960 Speaker 1: I think you'll really enjoy it. By the way, if 1224 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,200 Speaker 1: you like stories like this, and our interviews are obviously 1225 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 1: aren't his. They're not as long running, right, like, the 1226 01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,600 Speaker 1: run time is much shorter, but we do I think 1227 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,919 Speaker 1: really good interviews on The Doug Gottlieb Show daily three 1228 01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,560 Speaker 1: to six Eastern twelve three Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, I 1229 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app. In the meantime, stay tuned. Part two 1230 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,240 Speaker 1: will drop in like two days. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This 1231 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:29,760 Speaker 1: is all ball