1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: She didn't pick the other guy. She picks out Rodney Lincoln. 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: Seven year old Melissa Davis has just told police the 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: man who killed her mother, Joe and Tate and brutally 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: attacked her and her little sister Renee is, in fact 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: Rodney Lincoln. Metro p d has just picked him up. 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: Did you think you were coming back? I thought I would, 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: I told the gold I think drawn I'll be back 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: in the wall on the way you read me my right, 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: That's why really struck me. Who I'm really in trouble now? 10 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm Leah Rothman. This is the real Killer Episode three 11 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: Joanne and Rodney. Yeah, anyway, I think I showed you 12 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: last time. I've gotten actually bigger now. Oh my gosh, 13 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: this is unbelievable. There's probably work of stuff here easy. 14 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: I'm in Lynn, Missouri, at Nat and Lorie Clanny's house, 15 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: Joe and Tate's brother and sister in law. To say 16 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: they're collectors is a major understatement. They have thousands of 17 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: model cars, matchbox cars and Pezz dispensers, crafting supplies, VHS tapes, 18 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: and vintage toys, all super organized with a sense of 19 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: pride and sentimentality for all they've amassed. This is my 20 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: room where I come up and I'm feeling kind of 21 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: down and out. I'll come up and I'll relax and 22 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: I'll just sitting and look at all my junk. And 23 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: you see my drawings, didn't you? Yes, incredible to draw 24 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: sometimes too. Look at still. This is all my big 25 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: screen TVs goes from all the way there to there. 26 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god. And this look look look at Lorie's 27 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: madness though. Do you this is our selling stuff? This 28 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: used to be for company. Wow, I'm na call it? 29 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: What else is? I call it? Ingenious? Do you still 30 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: have the pictures in the hallway over here? Yeah? Down there. 31 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: But their most prized collection is of their family photos 32 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: and home movies. I think you've seen this one before 33 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: because this was in the video. But there's Joeyanne there, 34 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: but it's might be hard to see that one. Uh, 35 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: let's see there Joanne and that. Let's see so you 36 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: can find some more. Oh yeah, that was your birthday. Yeah, 37 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: I think you've seen them before. There's Melissa right there. 38 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: There's Melissa. They're in the front yard you want, and 39 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm filming already. That that's Samson. That was Samson. He 40 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: lived to be nine. But yeah, there's Melissa, she was 41 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: probably fifteen. Let's see, Renee was thirteen and Melissa was fifteen, 42 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: so wild to see her as a teenager. Oh yeah, okay, 43 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: right now, yeah, Renee, there's your day. She's just a 44 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: little dude. So nat tell me about your family. Take 45 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: me through the kids. Joanne was the oldest, and then 46 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: my brother Dan came along, and uh, then my sister Rachel, 47 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: and then Abby was the next one, and then I 48 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: was the baby. I was born in nineteen sixty three. 49 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: What's the age difference between you and Joanne? Joe Anne 50 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: would have been probably about seventeen, eighteen years older than me. 51 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: How would you describe your home life growing up? Mom 52 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: and dad really didn't have a relationship when I was 53 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: growing up. Dad didn't really want all the kids. He 54 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: didn't want all the extra ones Mom wanted them. He 55 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: just like peace and quiet. I hardly ever saw my 56 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: dad growing up because he was sleeping all the time. 57 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: Was your mom affectionate? No, No, that she come from 58 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: a hard time the depression? Were you just didn't really 59 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: show feelings? So, I mean I never got picked up 60 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: and hugged or our love, but I knew she loved me. 61 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: And what are some of your earliest memories of Joanne. 62 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: The earliest memories. I don't remember much, but my sister, 63 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: she had a strong love for her brothers and sisters. 64 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: That was dating this girl and she was saying some 65 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: negative things about me, and my sister got wind of it. 66 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: And I was just about fifteen and my girlfriend's about four, 67 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: and my sister all of a sudden, I'm coming. I'm 68 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: walking back from my girlfriend's house. It was across the 69 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: highway and I see my sister coming the other way 70 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: and she was mad. I mean, her face was red 71 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: and she looked like she was going to rip somebody 72 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: to pieces. And I met her. I said, where are 73 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: you going, Joey, and said, I'm gonna go over up. 74 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: She's not gonna say anything about my brother like that anything. 75 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,559 Speaker 1: I said, Joyant, please let me hit let me handle 76 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: this myself. And I calmed her down and we turned 77 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: around and we walked back home together. She was a 78 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: good sister, I mean she was. She loved her family. 79 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: She would do whatever she could for her family. She 80 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: had fight for her family. She probably laid on her 81 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: life for her family. I believe she would fiercely loyal, 82 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: sometimes to the wrong people. Around nineteen sixty three, Joanne 83 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: marries her first husband and they have a daughter together, 84 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: but that relationship is an abusive one, and it lands 85 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: Joanne in the hospital on more than one occasion. Eventually, 86 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: they divorce and Joanne moves it's some family members to 87 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: Chicago for a fresh start, or at least that's what 88 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: she hoped would happen. We were in Chicago and we 89 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: were driving down this road and then a drunk driver 90 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: hit us head on about seventy and uh, Joanne was 91 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: Joanne was driving and I came to the car was smoking, 92 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: was off the side of road. I was in the 93 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: back seat, sister, law and sister. They went through the 94 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: window and U I got all the car at The 95 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: car was just crushed and I hear him just mulling there. 96 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: Oh oh, I was I never you can't get that 97 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: out of your head, and Uh, I said, I gotta 98 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: get help. If nobody it's a dark highway, it's it's January, 99 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: it's cold, and I ran down this highway. I don't 100 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: know for how long, but blood was just coming out 101 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: of my head. And it was one eleven year old 102 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: Nat bleeding from a head wound. Finally stops the passer 103 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: by and gets help. Everyone survives the collision, but joe 104 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: Anne's injuries are severe. Joe Baby, she we called our 105 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: joe Baby, so Joe Anne. But Joe Baby broke three 106 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: of her ribs, the stero and went into her chest. 107 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: She broke her hip in a couple of places, broke 108 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: her leg, broke her arm, broke her chin. So she 109 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: was in a hospital for a long time. But they 110 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: didn't think she would ever walk again. Joanne refuses to 111 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: accept that and eventually proves them wrong. But life for 112 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: thee year old will be forever changed. She never could 113 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: work anymore, and so she got on welfare. She tried, 114 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: She tried to sell avon on the side. He'd collect bottles, 115 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: you know, because Walfare didn't give me much anyway. Despite 116 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: Joanne's financial struggles, there's happiness in her life, a bright 117 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: spot well to actually. In nineteen seventy four, Melissa is born. 118 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: In the nineteen seven along comes Renee, a single mother 119 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: to three girls. It's now the four of them against 120 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: the world. Joanne was a good mother. She was a 121 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: good mother. She took care of her kids. I get 122 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: a lot of my personality from my mom. Here's Melissa today. 123 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: When I look at her pictures and I think of her, 124 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: I remember this woman who was so funny and goofy, 125 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: and she had this bubbly, you know personality. She loved 126 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: a dance and do things with family members and hang 127 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: out and chat and laughed together. I just wish she 128 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: knew how pretty she was. I wanted to be like her. 129 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: I wanted to be so pretty like her. My mom 130 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: had this soft, soft body, is voluptuous and very feminine, 131 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: and she of curves from carrying babies. I thought she 132 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: was beautiful. She had porcelain skin and brown eyes, very 133 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: expressive like puppy dog eyes, beautiful hair that was probably 134 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: dark brown, she dyed it black, painted nails, red lipstick 135 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: that she got from Avon, and still letto heels. My 136 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: mom would be in church playing piano with long nails 137 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: and stiletto heels. What kinds of things would you and 138 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: your mom do together? We did a lot of taken 139 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: in animals. We had a menagerie. We were always happening 140 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: upon animals. We love to walk, We loved the farmer's market, 141 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: and we loved to go to the park. She made 142 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: the most average Monday, and things so exciting in the 143 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: winter when a snow she makes snow cream. What is 144 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: snow cream? Snow cream is know that you mix with 145 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: a little bit of vanilla and sugar and milk. And 146 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: I felt fancy, I said, who else has got snow 147 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: groom from real snow? Sometimes we one hour walks, we'd 148 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: pick up cans. Other times Mama would sell a vine. 149 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: And if someone gave her an opportunity or money and 150 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: she could physically do it, like a odd job for somebody, 151 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: she would. Mama did whatever she could, and she swallowed 152 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: her pride to ask for help from agencies and churches. 153 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: But it just seemed like no matter what. Come the 154 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: third week of the month, we had hardly anything left, 155 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: usually just a bag of potatoes and whatever was given 156 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: to us by a family member. As real as their 157 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: money problems are, maybe the bigger issue is the one 158 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: Joanne had with men. Not saw it firsthand. I never 159 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: liked any of them, they were all creeps. But she 160 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: didn't see that in people. She didn't judge people. That's 161 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: just the way she thought. Everybody had a good heart. 162 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: And I could I could be next to somebody and 163 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: since that they're a piece of crap right away, you know. 164 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: But she couldn't have that in or I don't know 165 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: if she just wasn't built like that. What do you 166 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: think was going on with Joanne that she needed to 167 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: have men around. I think Joanne was lonely. Joan was 168 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: was she just she felt because she had the kids 169 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: and she was overweight, that she didn't have what it took, 170 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, to keep a guy anymore, and then they 171 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: would use her and just dump her. It was painful 172 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: because I've seen and that's my sister. But there was 173 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: nothing I can't You can't help somebody when they're in 174 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: that kind of state of mind, you know. She just 175 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: you know, I just you know, I love my sister Jolian, 176 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: and she was just she was a good person. But 177 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: I just somehow she got off on a bad track 178 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: of trust in people. No self confidence. When I met Matt, 179 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: he didn't any self confidence either any time. He self esteem, 180 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: self esteem, self confidence. That's just the way we're raised. 181 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: We weren't raised with a lot of affection or attention 182 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: or showing anything. She was raised in an environment where 183 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: you're taught to marry find that man who could take 184 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: you out of that situation and give you a life 185 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: where you don't have to struggle so hard. Men worthy 186 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: solution to everything, even if they weren't the greatest man 187 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: with the best intentions or personality or integrity or decency. 188 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: It was a man, and the fact that it was 189 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: a man, it was very low standards. And one of 190 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: those men is Rodney Lincoln. Back in the day, Rodney Lincoln, 191 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: a white guy with an undeniably great head of brown air, 192 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: was five five hundred and twenty two pounds. Today Rodney 193 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: is gray and weighs a touch less Forgive me for 194 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: saying it this way, but you're not the largest man 195 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Five. You weigh less than I do. 196 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: A quick note about Rodney, he's now seventy seven years 197 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: old and dealing with some health issues, so sometimes it's 198 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: a little hard to understand him. Born in South St. 199 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: Louis on August nineteenth, ninety, Rodney is raised by his 200 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: mother Mary and stepfather Leonard, the self proclaimed mischievous prankster. 201 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: Enlist in the Navy after high school. It's one of 202 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: the shorter military careers I've ever heard of. Well, my 203 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: naval career lefted about by nine days. I didn't pass 204 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: see physical once I got the base and they gave 205 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: me home about discharge for medical reasons. So I came home, 206 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: tried out for St. Louis Cardinals and made it. I 207 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: played in the Mining League a year year a half. 208 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: What position did you play? Picturing short stuff? During that 209 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: time I met a young lady that was soon to 210 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: become Mrs Lincoln. He's young and love and she said, well, 211 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: you can't have a family and be away from home 212 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: all time and the ball player. That's the way life is. 213 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: So I gave up my dream. We got married and 214 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: eventually married with children. They end up having four kids, Rodney, Patrick, Leonard, 215 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: Kay and Kelly. Then in nineteen seventy two, life in 216 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: the Lincoln household changes abruptly. I got in trouble with 217 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: the police. I was quite a heavy drinker at time. 218 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: I was about drinking an argument, turning into a fighting man, 219 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: and you're dead. Tell me a little bit more about 220 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: what happened in nineteen seventy two. I can't say I 221 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: was drinking pretty heavy. I was down a boy. I 222 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: got into a argument with this guy over the pool game. 223 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: The guy is Russell Myers. After we had this load 224 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: and deal with the pool game, he left. Well, I 225 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: wasn't done drinking, so I've dated the boy. Some drinks later, 226 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: a friend of Rodney's tells him Russell just stolen axe 227 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: out of his truck, so Rodney goes after him. They fight, 228 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: then call a truce and decide to go drink together. 229 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: After stocking up on beer and sheep wine, they drive 230 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: to Jefferson Barracks, an Army and Air National Guard base, 231 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: cemetery and park three hundred and thirty seven acres on 232 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: the banks of the Mississippi River. So while we're drinking, 233 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: we gant argument again. The argument takes a turn when, 234 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: according to Rodney, Russell propositions him and I said no. 235 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: And this is when you really started getting angry. He 236 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: picked up a big rock and don't at me. I ducked. 237 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: I picked up a big rock into a ham You 238 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: didn't actually, I panic. Russell doesn't duck, and the rock 239 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: Rodney just through hits him in the head, killing him instantly. Frenzied, 240 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: Rodney takes off and pulls out right in front of 241 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: another car. Yea flame always great. Keep from hitting me. 242 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: You gotta be a good description. My truck that wasn't 243 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: well to police was coming in question me. At first 244 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: I denied it. I'm scared more than anything. Finally I 245 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: don't look, yeah I did it. We gott like me 246 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: to rock at me. I do rock at him him 247 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: and he didn't hit me. But there's actually more to 248 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: the story, something that happens before Rodney leaves the scene 249 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: and is questioned by police. Where was his body? Where 250 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: was Russell Meyer's body found? I dragged his body over 251 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 1: to the river, but him enter the river. They found 252 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: scorebone tissue, brain tissue, be they dragged Mississippi, but they 253 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: never didfined the body. And eventually I told him, you know, 254 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: yeah I did it. Why did you push his body 255 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: into the Mississippi River? Panic? I was scared, I guess 256 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, I thought if they 257 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: if I hid the body, nobody you know well from 258 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: what I heard the way they found the scene of 259 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: some guy who was walking on his dog and dog 260 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: found this stuff, and this guy called the bulleys. So 261 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: I was convicted of second degree murtive. I was rightfully 262 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: convicted of second degree motive. Rodney is sentenced to ten years. 263 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: He's let out in too drunk, parole sixteen month, got 264 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: the drinking agag got get in trouble again, wound up, 265 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: get my parole revoked. I went back, got out, I 266 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: made a bow. I would never go back to parodon again. 267 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: I have a question about when you drink. Were you 268 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: happy drunk? Were you an angry drunk? Did you have 269 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: a temper? I was a changeable drunk. Most of the time. 270 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: I was high, happy, go lucky and have another drink. 271 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,199 Speaker 1: But there was something that made me angry. It was 272 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: all the way I could go from having a great 273 00:19:52,760 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: time to be ready to really hurt somebody. Some months 274 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: out of prison and vowing to never go back. Around 275 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: mid nine, thirty six year old Rodney meets thirty four 276 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: year old Joe and Tate. It wasn't no old big 277 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: love a bear anything, which he loves to have check 278 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: at at. But again, there's more to it than just that. 279 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: Let's go back. Tell me about when and where the 280 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: circumstances around surrounding you meeting Joe an Tate, Alex booking 281 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: a new boy. Rodney's working at Red Villa's Bar at 282 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: Broadway and Davis in South St. Louis, which kind of 283 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 1: a neighborhood. Boy were the old man had nothing to do, 284 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: go in and sit in there all day and talk 285 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: about the lives they live. Where beers are a dollar 286 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: twenty five and pool tournaments packed the locals in. And 287 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: it's during one of these tournaments Daniel Clenny brings in 288 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: his sisters Abby and Joanne. How did you know Daniel 289 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: at that time? I did. I met him there shooting pool, ah, 290 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: but I never really knew him. I did met him, 291 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: and then when he came in, I didn't recognize him, 292 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: but we got talking, and I got talking to joe Anne. 293 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: Abby makes it crystal clear she's not interested in Rodney, 294 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: but Joanne is. And when they left, she had me 295 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: peach paper with a name number on it. Well, I 296 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: clothed the ball that night I called the number. She's saying, yeah, 297 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: come on over. And that was the first time we 298 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: gotten together. And where did she? Where did you go? 299 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: Where did she live? She lived in i Plock. I 300 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: think she it was fair Street for street. I went 301 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: to her house. Basically we had sucks and I loved uh. 302 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: I've seen joe Anne maybe three or four times after that, 303 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: and then we kind of dripped their part and she 304 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: didn't call me. I didn't call her. Fast forward to 305 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: May around one pm. It's about a month after Joanne's murder, 306 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: and seven year old Melissa just picked out Rodney's photo 307 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: as the attacker. Here's Melissa again. I thought I was done. 308 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: I was so relieved, and then I found out that 309 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: we had to go round to the police station. About 310 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: three pm, on the second floor of police headquarters, Melissa 311 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: and four year old Renee, along with Detective Joe Bragoon 312 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: and three other investigators, enter one side of the lineup room. 313 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: Four white males enter the other, and we're standing on 314 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: this one side of this glass. And the detective explained 315 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: to me that I could see them, but they couldn't 316 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: see me. When he said, I want you to look 317 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: very carefully as these people. I didn't want to do 318 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: it because word that the bad guy would get me. 319 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: According to the police report, Renee picks none of the men. 320 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: Melissa picks number three. Rodney Lincoln at the lineup office 321 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: soon walked up to me and said, you're in big 322 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: trouble and got me took me back to show. Rodney 323 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: agrees to talk with investigators. He tells them about meeting 324 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: Joanne at the pool tournament. Then their brief sexual relationship, 325 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: and he tells them something else. One time I went 326 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: away there and she was worried by someone bothering her. So, 327 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: being a nice guy, I am much. Come over my 328 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: house tonight Into Gold came over my house while mom talked. 329 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: I was living m I took the two golds called 330 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: street to the park for a while. The two Golds 331 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: slept upstairs in one bed joint. I slept in another 332 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: bed upstairs. The next morning, I took him home, and 333 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: I think that was last time I've seen it. Remember, 334 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: Melissa said she had been to Bill's house. Bill lived 335 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: with his mom. She said they spend the night upstairs, 336 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: and they played at the park across the street from Bills. 337 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: That evening, they came by and told me that I I 338 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: was being charged with capital and murder and to count 339 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: the fish degree assault and my bond with one billion 340 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: dollars secured. I'm making forty up a week. I got 341 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: a million dollar by I knew I wasn't make a buy. 342 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Rodney has fingerprinted and gives pubic hair and blood samples. 343 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: Joanne's family soon learns there's been an arrest. Here are 344 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: Laurie and not again. I just I felt like the 345 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: police know what they're doing. You know, they're the professionals. 346 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: They got all the um evidence and equipment and technology 347 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: to find the person. And thank god, now they got 348 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: the guy that did this, because I believe Melissa. If 349 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: Melissa could remember that much detail at seven years old 350 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: about a place she had been a year before, after 351 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: all the trauma she just went through, I had faith 352 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: in it. I believe she knew what she was talking about, 353 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: and I believe Nat felt the same way. Thank god 354 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: they got him. Thank god they got this guy. What 355 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: did you think when you learned Rodney Lincoln had killed 356 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: a man before? I thought that, you know, that just 357 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: reinforces he's a killer. If he killed once, what's going 358 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: to stop from killing again? That's what I thought, you know. 359 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: Back at the station, Rodney agrees to take a polygraph. 360 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: According to the police report, he's asked these questions, did 361 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: you kill joe An Tate? And did you stick a 362 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: broom a correctum soon found out that I've been't pay 363 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: the polygraph. It's not good there. Sure you lied by 364 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 1: everything including your name, my name. Wait a minute. Five 365 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: weeks later, Rodney Lincoln is indicted by the grand jury 366 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: and prominently displayed under his name in the indictment is 367 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: a new detail. Rodney is also known as Bad Bill 368 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: Rodney and Durs's plea of not guilty, and he tells 369 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: his family the same. Here's Rodney's daughter Kay, who was 370 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 1: thirteen at the time. I mean, the very first time 371 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: we went to seeing he absolutely I did not do this. 372 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: I need you to know I did not do this. 373 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: And that's all it took. He only had to tell 374 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: me what. In the months that followed, detectives obtained pubic 375 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: hair samples from thirty seven people, mostly men. Included in 376 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: that group are joe Anne's family members, Stevency, her neighbor, 377 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: and Tom Schultz, her ex boyfriend. But there are two 378 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: people who refused to give a hair sample without a 379 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: court order. Gary Lrose. He's the first person Melissa and 380 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: Renee's older sister asked about. And Billy Paris, a cousin 381 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: of joe Anne's first husband. But it may not matter 382 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: because Chief Criminalist Harold Slur states in a deposition that 383 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: a hair found on a blue blanket is microscopically similar 384 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: to Rodney Lincoln and dissimilar to the victims or any 385 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: of the other samples collected. Rodney remains in jail for 386 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: over a year until his trial begins on August eighth. 387 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: For the prosecution is six year veteran assistant circuit attorney 388 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: Joseph Bauer. By the way, prosecutors are called circuit attorneys 389 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: in St. Louis. For the defense, Robert Hampy, Rodney's older brother, 390 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: cleaned out his retirement fund and took out a second 391 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: mortgage on his home in order to hire the cocky 392 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: attorney with a reputation of winning tough cases. The jury, 393 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: diverse in gender and race, will be sequestered in what's 394 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: expected to be a less than two week trial. Aunt 395 00:29:54,280 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: Lourie is their day in and day out. The judge 396 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: talked to Renee and he said she was too young 397 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: to testify, that you know, they wouldn't allow her. But 398 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: I do remember sitting in the courtroom like third or 399 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: fourth rowback, and you know, seeing some of the testimony 400 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: Rodney Lincoln during the trial. I just remember seeing the 401 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: back of his head. I do remember I looked over 402 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: a few times to get a look at the guy, 403 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: but he just sat there like facing the judge. The 404 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: whole time. How was Melissa on the stand? Oh, Melissa 405 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: was very she was very confident in her testimony. Remember 406 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: in the trial, it was huge. First of all, the 407 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: room was so big, and I remember using my manners 408 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: and I used my words, and I was loud and 409 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: spoke out. And she believed what she was saying. I 410 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: could tell that even at seven years old, and that 411 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: she you know, she answered the questions. You know, you 412 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: almost thought she was like a little adult sitting up there. 413 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: She was sure that Rodney was the one that did it. 414 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: Day eight, both sides rest and the jury begins their deliberations. 415 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: But after two days they're deadlocked and a hung jury 416 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: is declared. The split is seven five and it's unknown 417 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: if the majority is for guilt or innocence. What did 418 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: you think when the it was a hung jury? Letdown? 419 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: It's a big letdown. And um, what I want to say, 420 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: justice just fell apart. Justice did not do its job, 421 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, how could they not 422 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: after Melissa's testimony? How could they not convict this guy 423 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: for Julian's murder? You know what? These people must not 424 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: care that are on the jury said they just couldn't 425 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: believe a kid or something like that. I don't know, 426 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: but I was like, this is ridiculous. This is just 427 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: absolutely ridiculous. Prosecutors are determined to get their guy and 428 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: waste no time. Just two months after the hung jury, 429 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: on October three, the second trial begins. I was so 430 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: mad we did this already. I don't want to talk 431 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: about this no more. I sorry. I felt really bad 432 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: about myself. There are people asked me why I couldn't 433 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: get help, and my family why I didn't get help. 434 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: There were was a teacher at my school that was 435 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: fascinated with my case, and she made me come out 436 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: and tell all the other teachers what happened to me. 437 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: I was so done talking about it. Trial number two 438 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: did Ury will be sequestered again, but this time it 439 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,479 Speaker 1: consists of twelve white men. The same attorneys will be 440 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: trying the case, Robert Hampy for the defense and Joe 441 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: Bauer for the prosecution. And I'll note that even though 442 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: Joe Bauer had left the Circuit Attorney's office for private practice, 443 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: the state appoints him special Assistant Circuit Attorney for this trial. 444 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: But there are some differences this go around. There's a 445 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: different judge, a much bigger deal is made of the 446 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: hair that is microscopically similar to Rodney's. And there's a 447 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: surprise witness for the defense, a guy from Joanne's neighborhood, 448 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: Billy Hayes, who also had been considered a person of 449 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: interest in the case. He testifies that he had bumped 450 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: into a man in the Hyde Park neighborhood around the 451 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: time of the murder. The man, who was wearing bloodstained clothes, 452 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: threatened to kill him if he ever told anyone of 453 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: their meeting. Billy hay As goes on to say that 454 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: despite meeting with police multiple times, he had not said 455 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: anything about this until August, more than a year after 456 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: the murder, because he feared for his life. And he 457 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: says he has seen the man on at least one 458 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: other occasion since their first meeting and knows him only 459 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: as Dave. And for this trial, Melissa, the star witness 460 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: is encouraged to be even more dramatic on the witness stand. 461 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: I knew I had to get off the stand and 462 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: point out the madman. I scared and I got down. 463 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: Remember looking down, I had patent white patent choose a 464 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: ruffled dress. We're walking over and pointing riding out. It 465 00:34:53,040 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: was very dramatic and moving, very emotionally moving in the 466 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: prosecuted attorney asked her, you know, can you see the 467 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: who the man in the courtroom? Can you point out 468 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: who did it? And she came down off the standard. 469 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: She pointed at Rodney. She said, he did. This little 470 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: girl has the cahunas to stand across the room and 471 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: point at the guy that she, in her mind knows 472 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: murdered her mother and you know, butchered her and her 473 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: little sister. You know that's powerful. In closing arguments, special 474 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: Assistant Circuit Attorney Joe Bauer reminds hers of some of 475 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: the most gruesome details, saying, in part quote, Joe and 476 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: Tate was dead with the broom inserted into her body 477 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 1: some twenty eight. We know that Joe and Tate walked 478 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: around after she was stabbed because her feet on the 479 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: bottom of them had blood her blood. And I submit 480 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: to you that in order to insert that broom, he 481 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: had to wait until she was on the floor before 482 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: he attempted to do that. Bower goes on to say 483 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: a quote, the knife that was used on that little 484 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: girl's vagina was a blunt knife, not a sharp knife. 485 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: If you look at States Exhibit sixteen, this is a 486 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: blunt knife. All the other knives are pretty sharp steak knives. 487 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: This is what was used on that little girl's vagina. 488 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: And about Melissa's ability to I d her attacker, he says, quote, 489 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: when he has her on the bed with her little 490 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: legs around his hips and he's trying to kiss her, 491 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: do you think she could forget that face? Do you 492 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: think she could ever forget that face? Now it's the 493 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,439 Speaker 1: defensive turn, and Robert Hampy starts by calling out all 494 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: the inconsistencies in Melissa's testimony. Now, that little girl told 495 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: everybody in life that she talked to that a man 496 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: named Bill did it. The littlest one said Bill did it. 497 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: Immediately after it happened. She told them they did it. 498 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: Now we've got Bill, who isn't Bill, Gary who isn't Gary. 499 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: But it's sure as hell isn't Rodney. The most distinctive 500 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: feature about Rodney Lincoln and he's a little kind of 501 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: blend into the woodwork kind of guy. The most distinctive 502 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: feature about him is the fact that he has a 503 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: finger missing. All of you have been around children, you 504 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: know how they think. You know how they act. You 505 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,759 Speaker 1: know that that child would have remembered that had she 506 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 1: known that Rodney Lincoln was the man that did this. 507 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,760 Speaker 1: He concludes by saying that no matter how sympathetic Renee 508 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: and the now eight year old Melissa are, the jurors 509 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: should not let that affect them while trying to reach 510 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: a verdict. He says, quote, those kids have been down 511 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: the road, and your heart has to go out to 512 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: the eight year old. But if you heard what she 513 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: said from you would not listen to it for ten minutes, 514 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: not for ten seconds. And you cannot accept such testimony 515 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: from a child. Considering how important this is, Bowers rebuttaled. 516 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: He offers up an explanation for Melissa's changing story, saying, 517 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,240 Speaker 1: because of all the constant police questioning and the horrible 518 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: extent of her wounds, quote, she just gave them a 519 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 1: name bill to shut everybody up. And she didn't pick 520 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: Lincoln from a bunch of photographs because she knew him. 521 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: She saw several pictures of people her mother knew, and 522 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: she said she knew them, but they did not kill 523 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: her mother. On October seven, the fifth day of the trial, 524 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: jury deliberations begin. They start at ten am, and that 525 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: same day at p m they come back with a 526 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: verdict guilty of two counts of first degree assault with 527 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 1: a deadly weapon and guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter, 528 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: not capital murder. Like the prosecution had argued for a 529 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: complete shock to everyone there. So when you hear the 530 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: guilty verdict, dumbfounded, it's done. Who was in the courtroom 531 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: for you the day of the guilty verdict was your mom? There, 532 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: my mom, my brother. Do you remember looking at them 533 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:51,720 Speaker 1: on the way out. I remember I'm threatening their head 534 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: up high. She would reach back and your mouth the woods. 535 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: I love you. At John Hard Day, here's Rodney's daughter, Kay. 536 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: I remember my mom telling me that he wouldn't be 537 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: coming home. He had been convicted. And what do you mean, Well, 538 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: they said he was guilty. He's not coming home, and 539 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, something in me broke that day. Rodney is 540 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: sentenced to two life terms for the attack on the 541 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: girls and fifteen years for Joanne's murder, all to run consecutively. 542 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: I was thinking he deserved the death penalty because to me, 543 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: that crime would would deserve that a death penalty. From 544 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: what I saw and from what happened I just felt 545 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: relieved that they got this guy, and now we can 546 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 1: go on with our life, you know, minus sister and 547 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: to damaged nieces. You know. So that was it, the 548 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: end of a horrible nightmare for Joanne's family and her girls. 549 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: Justice is finally served. Lock him up and throw away 550 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 1: the key. Right the road to healing can finally start, 551 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: not even close. The pain is just beginning. Artist told 552 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: the badman was in prison, and ne rafter you think 553 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: of him or talk about him again. My family reminded 554 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,720 Speaker 1: me quite often that everything was done, I was safe 555 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: and nothing to worry about. But yet I always felt 556 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: like I was being watched. I never felt safer secure, 557 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: and I had nightmares all the time because to me, 558 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: there was no reason I feel safe and secure. Next time, 559 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: on the real Killer, I wrote all his charges all 560 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: over the exterior of this envelope. Ever wrote baby rapist, 561 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: I wrote man killer, I wrote predator. Melissa's on a 562 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: mission to make Rodney's life a living hell. Did you 563 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: want harm to come to him? I wasn't opposed to it, 564 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: and Rodney's daughter is equally as driven to save him. 565 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: I knew nothing about investigating. I knew nothing about researching. 566 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: I was just dumbfounded by the things I had found. 567 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: This isn't Oliver. I'm not done. The Real Killer is 568 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: a production of a y R Media and I Heart Radio, 569 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 1: hosted by me Leah Rothman, Executive producers Leah Rothman and 570 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: Eliza Rosen for a y R Media. Written by me 571 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:57,880 Speaker 1: Leah Rothman, Senior Associate producer Eric Newman, editing and sound 572 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,880 Speaker 1: design by Cameron Taggy, mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggy, 573 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: Audio engineering by Jesus c. Mario studio engineering by Tom 574 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: Weir and Kelly McGrew. Voice acting performed by Clayton Ferris 575 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: and Alex Salem. Legal counsel for a y R Media. 576 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: Gianni Douglas, executive producer for iHeart Radio Chandler Maze. If 577 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: you're enjoying The Real Killer, tell your friends about it 578 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,240 Speaker 1: and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever 579 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.