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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Aaron Sanders still remembers the first time he bought a

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Speaker 2: ticket to Burning Man. The year was two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 2: He was an artist living in San Francisco and he

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Speaker 2: couldn't wait to head to rural Nevada for a week

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Speaker 2: long radical gathering in the middle of the desert.

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Speaker 3: So you could go into the record shop and they

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Speaker 3: just had like a stack of Burning Man tickets and

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Speaker 3: you buy them. I think at the time they were

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Speaker 3: maybe like I don't know, three hundred bucks or something

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Speaker 3: like that, Like is you know, still a lot of

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Speaker 3: money for me at the time, But you know, I

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Speaker 3: was like, this is amazing. And then I you know,

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Speaker 3: skipped home like Charlie and the Chocolate factory, like I

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Speaker 3: have a gold you know. It's just really really exciting.

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Speaker 2: And like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, Burning Man was also otherworldly,

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Speaker 2: wonderful and weird. Tens of thousands of people all camping

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Speaker 2: together in a makeshift city. There was art and music

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Speaker 2: and biking and community.

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Speaker 3: It was amazing, and you know, kept on going for

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Speaker 3: another twelve years straight something like that, like right up

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Speaker 3: until the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: But while the experience over those twelve years was amazing,

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Speaker 2: Aaron says, getting tickets got harder and harder every year.

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Speaker 3: Everyone I know, you know, we will set up like

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Speaker 3: a basically like little mini land setup with like several

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Speaker 3: computers and all trying to you know, make sure somebody

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Speaker 3: gets in line to be able to buy tickets.

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Speaker 2: It's like buying Tis with tickets for oh, for the.

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Speaker 3: It was really like you know, into where you know,

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Speaker 3: you'd go to the friend's house that has like the

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Speaker 3: best Wi Fi or like the strongest, like the widest bandwidth.

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Speaker 3: You know, they can you know, just because it could

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Speaker 3: come down to like seconds, and.

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Speaker 2: If you didn't score a ticket right when they came out,

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Speaker 2: well that meant you were in for another mad dash

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Speaker 2: to find one second hand. It also meant that if

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Speaker 2: you had an extra ticket, you could always find a buyer.

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Speaker 3: You know, like there's always somebody that was looking for

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Speaker 3: a ticket or that wanted a ticket, you know, even

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Speaker 3: up until the very last minute.

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Speaker 2: Burning Man took a couple years off during the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: and so did Aarin. He moved to New York with

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Speaker 2: his partner. They opened an art gallery, which now also

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Speaker 2: doubles as a cannabis dispensary, and when burning Man tickets

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Speaker 2: went on sale earlier this year, Aaron decided to buy some.

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Speaker 2: But then July came around and he realized taking a

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Speaker 2: week off work and making the truck from the East

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Speaker 2: Coast wouldn't be in the cards, so he decided to

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Speaker 2: list his tickets on Craigslist. What's it been like trying

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Speaker 2: to resell your tickets this year?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean so far. I mean, this was when

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Speaker 3: David reached out. That was the first bite that I got. Really,

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Speaker 3: so that was.

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Speaker 2: That would be big take producer David Fox looking for

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Speaker 2: an interview, not a ticket.

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Speaker 3: I mean I initially put it out there at twelve

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Speaker 3: hundred bucks for a parking pass plus two tickets, which

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Speaker 3: normally I think the tickets are going for like five

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Speaker 3: seventy five, and then the parking pass is like one

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Speaker 3: point fifty, and so you know, I was selling them

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Speaker 3: for underface value, but not like significantly underface It was

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Speaker 3: more just kind of like, will anybody want them at

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Speaker 3: this price? Like at this point, you know, I would

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Speaker 3: probably take what I can get.

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Speaker 2: And Aaron isn't alone in his resale woes. Every single

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Speaker 2: year since twenty eleven Burning Man tickets have sold out

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Speaker 2: almost immediately until now, and Bloomberg's Ellen Hewitt says that's

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Speaker 2: a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Demand for Burning Man is down this year. I think

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Speaker 1: it's just like a really interesting indicator of something pretty

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Speaker 1: fundamental about it changing.

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Speaker 2: Today on the show, has burning Man Burned Out? I'm

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Speaker 2: Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from Bloomberg Names.

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Speaker 1: My name is Ellen Hewitt. I'm a features writer on

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Speaker 1: the tech team at Bloomberg News. So I write for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News and for Bloomberg Business Week, and I'm based

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Speaker 1: in San Francisco. And I've also been to berning Man

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Speaker 1: eight times.

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Speaker 2: Eight times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know perfect. One time it was for only

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours. But if you're counting the number of

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Speaker 1: times that I've been to I've entered the desert, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's eight. I counted last night.

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Speaker 2: Needless to say, Ellen, like Aaron, has built up years

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Speaker 2: of expertise going out to black Rock City in the

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Speaker 2: Nevada Desert, or to use the correct term. She spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time out on the plaia taking it

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Speaker 2: all in. What brings you there year after year? What

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Speaker 2: do you do all week?

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Speaker 1: I think the pattern that a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: end up getting really into Burning Man they have some

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Speaker 1: experience probably similar to mine, which is the first time

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Speaker 1: you go, a friend brings you, or you know, someone

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Speaker 1: kind of helps guide the way. They tell you, oh,

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Speaker 1: you need to bring this and that and here's what

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Speaker 1: you might expect. And you go the first time and

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Speaker 1: you're just taking it in and you're like.

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Speaker 4: Wow, this is so incredible. Look at it. This art

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Speaker 4: like it's really fun. You meet all lots of interesting people.

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Speaker 1: It feels very separate from like the default world, which

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Speaker 1: is what they call normal life, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: a big attraction for a lot of people. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: after my first year, I remember my friend asked me like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now that you've seen what's there, like, what would you

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Speaker 1: be really excited about adding to black Rock City next year?

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Speaker 1: And I built a like twenty foot tall swing set

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Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, I really want more swing

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Speaker 1: sets at Burning Man, and I want them to be

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Speaker 1: very tall, you know.

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Speaker 4: Than we wanted to put on like.

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Speaker 1: Wacky events, like one year we hosted an event called

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Speaker 1: Barbershop Barbershop where some of us sang barbershop quartet songs

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Speaker 1: and other people offered amateur haircuts and people actually came

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Speaker 1: and got their haircut at our camp.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you, I feel like a lot of the

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Speaker 2: people I know that go to Burning Man are really creative,

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Speaker 2: really artistic, really like backpacking or camping. But my other

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Speaker 2: impression is that it's really popular with like Silicon Valley people.

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Speaker 2: Is that true? What is its connection with the tech industry.

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Speaker 1: It's this weird overlap because there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: Burning Man that has nothing to.

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Speaker 4: Do with Silicon Valley.

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Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of people who come and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're from Germany or they're from la or it's just

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Speaker 1: like not why they're there. At the same time, spending

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Speaker 1: time in Silicon Valley here going to Birningman is like

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Speaker 1: so normal. It's like everyone, not everyone, but like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people do it. It's no longer this like

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Speaker 1: surprising thing.

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Speaker 2: And it isn't just for run of the mill Silicon

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Speaker 2: Valley tech workers.

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Speaker 1: I saw sarahgay Brand like the first time I went

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Speaker 1: to Burning Man.

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Speaker 2: In fact, Google and Burning Man have a pretty long history.

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Speaker 1: There's some classic stories like Larry Page and Saragai Brand

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Speaker 1: when they were tasked with picking a CEO to take

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Speaker 1: over at Google like an adult in the room.

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Speaker 4: They had a bunch of.

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Speaker 1: People they were considering, and in the end they picked

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Speaker 1: Eric Schmidt because he was the only candidate who had

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Speaker 1: already been to Burning Man.

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Speaker 2: Why was that so attractive? Why did they want someone

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Speaker 2: to run Google who had been.

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Speaker 4: To Burning In.

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Speaker 1: I think they thought that going to Burning Man, and

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Speaker 1: like choosing to go to Burning Man was indicative of

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Speaker 1: some essence of spirit within him that they wanted to

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Speaker 1: have at Google. And to be clear, they had been

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Speaker 1: to Burning Man many times, Like the very first Google

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Speaker 1: doodle from nineteen ninety eight, it's actually the burning Man symbol,

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Speaker 1: which is like a little man made out of two

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Speaker 1: parentheses in an apostrophe. And they had put up the

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Speaker 1: Google Doodle to signify that, hey, we're out of office this week,

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Speaker 1: We're going to burning In.

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Speaker 2: Flash forward to the twenty tens and Ellen says it

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Speaker 2: was almost odd to not trek out to the Applia

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Speaker 2: every August if you lived a certain type of Silicon

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Speaker 2: Valley life.

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Speaker 1: You have Elon Musk saying that you know, if you've

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Speaker 1: never been to Burning Man, like you wouldn't understand it,

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Speaker 1: and like Burning Man is spiritually basically the same as

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Speaker 1: Silicon bat So.

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Speaker 2: What's different about this year?

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Speaker 1: This year something has changed. Tickets did not sell out,

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Speaker 1: and this is the first time that this has happened

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Speaker 1: since twenty eleven. And this has just made things really

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Speaker 1: complicated for people I know who are running camps. A

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Speaker 1: lot of them bought tickets early and have extra ones

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Speaker 1: and they're trying to like offload them and people are

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Speaker 1: not buying. And then most importantly, the Burning Man organization

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Speaker 1: which sells the tickets, has for the first time kind

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Speaker 1: of offered Like usually they just only sell tickets for

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Speaker 1: like a two hour window at you know, a few

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Speaker 1: times during the year. This year they're like, hey, it's

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Speaker 1: just available, Like, if you want to buy a ticket

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Speaker 1: to Burning Man today, I think you can. And that's

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Speaker 1: basically unheard of.

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Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, Why is burning Man no

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Speaker 2: longer such a hot ticket? And what does it say

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Speaker 2: about what's going on in Silicon Valley. For the first

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Speaker 2: time in more than a decade, Burning Man tickets have

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Speaker 2: not sold out. I asked Bloomberg's Ellen Hewitt whether anyone

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Speaker 2: saw this coming.

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Speaker 4: There was like a little rumbling, but not anything like this.

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Speaker 2: Ellen says, there's no one clear reason why demand is down,

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Speaker 2: but I still wanted to test a few theories. I

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Speaker 2: texted a few of my burner friends and one of

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Speaker 2: them said, what I'm reading is fewer sparkle ponies in

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Speaker 2: the way of the true believers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that could be very real.

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Speaker 2: Full disclosure, I did have to ask Ellen to help

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Speaker 2: me translate that sentence.

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Speaker 1: A sparkle pony is a loving but derogatory term for

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Speaker 1: someone who is new to berning Man and exhibiting maybe

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Speaker 1: a lack of self reliance. So one of the principles

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Speaker 1: of burning Man is self reliance, which means being able

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Speaker 1: to provide for yourself physically, emotionally. All that sparkle ponies

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Speaker 1: might show up in like a cute outfit, but forget

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Speaker 1: a coat gets very cold that night, and if they're

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Speaker 1: freezing and shivering and need your help and can't provide.

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Speaker 2: For themselves, then okay, So you don't want to be

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Speaker 2: a sparkle bony.

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Speaker 1: Don't be a sparkle pony. Find a friend who will

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Speaker 1: give you enough gear advice so that you can take

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Speaker 1: care of yourself.

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Speaker 2: A census of last year's burners found that a record

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Speaker 2: number were first timers, so perhaps there were more sparkle

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Speaker 2: ponies in the mix in twenty twenty three who ended

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Speaker 2: up deciding once was enough. Those newbies, along with the

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Speaker 2: PLIA hardened regulars, had to deal with another historic event

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Speaker 2: last year.

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Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: As many of you probably heard, it rained a lot

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Speaker 1: at burning Man and the whole Clia turned to basically

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Speaker 1: like a mud puddle.

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Speaker 4: Nature sent torrential rains the equivalent of two months worth

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Speaker 4: in a single day.

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Speaker 3: But brain conditions haven't happened in over a decade, so

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Speaker 3: we had just the worst conditions possible. You couldn't want.

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Speaker 2: I was never in such a rate before, But it

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Speaker 2: wasn't that bad.

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Speaker 4: I was there. It was very fun.

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Speaker 1: I actually had a really great time, But it was

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Speaker 1: really stressful for a lot of reasons, like people who

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Speaker 1: wanted to leave couldn't leave. People's like infrastructure and equipment.

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Speaker 1: Some of it got like wet, and that's really hard

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Speaker 1: to deal with, especially if the store it throughout the year.

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Speaker 4: So twenty twenty three was a hard year, a.

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Speaker 2: Hard, soggy year on the Plaia. But it was also

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Speaker 2: a hard year, as Burners might say, in the default world.

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Speaker 2: Prices of everything from groceries to housing shot up and

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Speaker 2: strained the US economy, and Ellen says that might be

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Speaker 2: another reason fewer people than usual are springing for tickets.

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Speaker 4: Burning Man's really expensive.

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Speaker 2: If you order online from the website, the most basic

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Speaker 2: ticket to this year's Burning Man costs six hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty three dollars and eighty eight cents. That's with taxes

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Speaker 2: and fees. A parking pass is another one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty four dollars, and then you need to factor in

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Speaker 2: the cost of traveling to Nevada and all the gear

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Speaker 2: and supplies you need to sustain yourself in the desert

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Speaker 2: for a week. It all adds up.

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Speaker 4: And so for some people it just may not be

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Speaker 4: something they can afford.

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Speaker 2: This year Burning Man could be another victim of inflation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's I think that's a big possibility.

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Speaker 2: Like anything that starts underground and ends up blowing up,

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Speaker 2: there's always going to be somebody that believes the good

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Speaker 2: old days are over.

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Speaker 1: I think there's always you know, there's sort of the

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Speaker 1: joke at birning Man is that like, oh, it was

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Speaker 1: cooler last year.

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Speaker 2: But ticket sales don't lie. It's clearly an extra off

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Speaker 2: year for the event with the mud, the economy, and

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Speaker 2: the generational vibes all possible explanations. So I had to

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Speaker 2: ask Ellen straight up, has Burning Man peaked?

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Speaker 1: This is speculation, but I do think it's possible that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Burning Man has become too mainstream, and if you see

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Speaker 1: a drop in popularity, it might be reflecting that. It

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Speaker 1: might be reflecting people feeling like this thing that used

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Speaker 1: to feel like an unusual or sort of like countercultural

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Speaker 1: thing to do, it's just kind of normal now. I

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Speaker 1: wonder if it's just a victim of its own popularity,

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Speaker 1: and that, like as with many things, it starts off

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Speaker 1: as this like weird side thing to do, and then

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Speaker 1: like just the more popular it is, the less it is.

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Speaker 4: That and.

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Speaker 1: You know what once was a signal about Eric Schmidt

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Speaker 1: versus other CEO candidates, Now it's kind of like I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, at your most cynical, you could say that

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Speaker 1: if you're in Silicon Valley, going to Burning Man is

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Speaker 1: a good way to network, Like that is a very

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Speaker 1: different scenario than it was, you know, ten or fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago.

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Speaker 2: But even if some people may be taking a break

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Speaker 2: from Burning Man, Ellen says that like a phoenix from

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Speaker 2: the ashes. There's always a chance it can rise again.

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Speaker 1: And if it survives, I hope that it can have

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Speaker 1: this kind of dip in which it maybe evolves into

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Speaker 1: something new or returns to some sort of roots.

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Speaker 2: And as for Aaron, who's still hoping that a serious

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Speaker 2: buyer will respond to his Craigslist ad, well, he told

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Speaker 2: me he has a plan to sweeten the deal, and

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Speaker 2: it involves his newly up and running cannabis business.

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Speaker 3: What we're going to try and do actually is just

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Speaker 3: tie it in to kind of like a promotional giveaway

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Speaker 3: for our dispensary, And so it's going to be the

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Speaker 3: mother of all giveaways or giveaway do tickets and the

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Speaker 3: parking paths if we're basically signing up for our newsletter.

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Speaker 2: Burning Man officially starts on Sunday, August twenty fifth. Ellen

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Speaker 2: won't be there, her summer is already too busy. But

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Speaker 2: if she changes her mind, I think I know where

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Speaker 2: we can get a good deal on a couple of tickets.

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Speaker 2: This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

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Speaker 2: This episode was produced by David Fox with Thomas lou.

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Speaker 2: It was mixed by Alex Suguia. It was fact checked

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Speaker 2: by Thomas lou Our senior producers are Naomi Shaven and

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Speaker 2: Kim Gettleson, who also edited this episode. Our senior editor

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Speaker 2: is Elizabeth Hanso. Nicole Beemster Borr is our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked

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Speaker 2: this episode, make sure to subscribe and review The Big

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Speaker 2: Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find

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Speaker 2: the show. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back

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Speaker 2: tomorrow