Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this week we have Jada Pinkett Smith coming on.
Speaker 2: She has a new book out. It's called Worthy, a gripping,
Speaker 2: at times painfully honest and ultimately inspirational memoir from global
Speaker 2: superstar and creator the Red Table Talk series Jada Pinkett Smith.
Speaker 2: She talks about depression, She talks about the slap. She
Speaker 2: talks about childhood.
Speaker 1: She grew up with drug dealer, her in the streets.
Speaker 1: On the streets yeah, Baltimore, m hm. I mean things
Speaker 1: that you think you know, you think you know.
Speaker 3: You have no idea.
Speaker 2: But now I'm reading the book though, too. I mean,
Speaker 2: you guys definitely should pick it up. Because when we
Speaker 2: got sent the advance copy, I couldn't put it down.
Speaker 1: I was surprised. Yeah, and I think the honesty is
Speaker 1: like the core of it for me, just how honest.
Speaker 1: And also we always think we know somebody, but we
Speaker 1: just you don't know why people are the way they are.
Speaker 1: I know, Craamer, big, big deep bread.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: But she's actually in the waiting room, so let's just
Speaker 2: get her one.
Speaker 1: Hey, girl, you got your little fun.
Speaker 2: I know how things have changed since that.
Speaker 1: Girl.
Speaker 2: I know, thank you, congrats to you, thank you because
Speaker 2: this is about you, So.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jada. I feel better just being in this
Speaker 1: room with you. I needed to see your smile and
Speaker 1: just have a minute with your energy.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1: I did be with you.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 1: You're so sweet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we were just obviously we know it's
Speaker 2: press week and you're you've got a lot going on.
Speaker 2: So just thank you for spending your time with us
Speaker 2: right now and just being open and so authentic. And
Speaker 2: that's something that I've always and I think it's interesting
Speaker 2: as we were talking, because you know, you walked into
Speaker 2: the this a little nervous, nervous, and you know, she's like, well,
Speaker 2: how is she? And I'm like, she's great. And you know,
Speaker 2: obviously I was nervous when I sat down with your
Speaker 2: red table talk because you're you're Jada, and you're just
Speaker 2: you know, it's I was. I was nervous. And then
Speaker 2: the second I met you, there's something about your energy
Speaker 2: that just made me feel safe. And I told Kristen,
Speaker 2: and that's safe. Safety for me is the biggest thing.
Speaker 2: That's when I can because I come from just that
Speaker 2: really anxious and place and so when I felt that,
Speaker 2: I was like, no, like she's she's cool. And you
Speaker 2: said something today that I was like, Oh, that's that's
Speaker 2: interesting that you you felt that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's interesting to me because what I know
Speaker 1: of you only is from media, right, which is so
Speaker 1: often unfair, unkind, unjust for the most part. And I
Speaker 1: know that because this is my best friend. So I've
Speaker 1: really been in the of it, on the backside of
Speaker 1: a lot of things. But it's funny because I have
Speaker 1: always You've always been perceived to me. I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: forty two year old woman in America right right, always
Speaker 1: perceived to me is this extra strong, can handle anything woman, right,
Speaker 1: which I love and I identify with. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so many pieces of your book that I just felt
Speaker 1: like were sentences that made me tear up. Also like
Speaker 1: wrapped your arms around me in words, so many things.
Speaker 1: There's a safety quote I actually we cannot forget to
Speaker 1: revisit in your book. But I was telling Janna, I said,
Speaker 1: it's crazy how media can make you almost feel too strong, right,
Speaker 1: Like the perception is like you know, like I was like,
Speaker 1: if I misspeak, is she going to you know? Also,
Speaker 1: Hollywood mixed with all of our stories. Sometimes it gets like,
Speaker 1: is this person going to be a kind person? You
Speaker 1: know where I'm extra lovey heart on sleeve. Listen, there's
Speaker 1: enough Detroit still in both of us that we can
Speaker 1: hold our own. But I'm like, you know, I just
Speaker 1: want to make sure that I'm always being respectful. But
Speaker 1: then I do want to ask questions like who are you?
Speaker 1: You know, who's Jada real Jada? Not what we know?
Speaker 1: And what they what the storyline or the agenda is,
Speaker 1: or the PR people or who has the bigger, better
Speaker 1: PR People like you are such a beautiful force in
Speaker 1: so many ways.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I mean it, you made my heart.
Speaker 3: You made my heart smile with that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's real. I mean Baltimore tough, I mean
Speaker 1: be more as no jokes, this not at all.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, for me, I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I have to. I'm just learning as I get older
Speaker 3: to kind of let go of some of those defenses
Speaker 3: that you know, I had to use to survive, you know,
Speaker 3: and they were so embedded in me. Sometimes it's difficult
Speaker 3: to to let those defenses down and just kind of
Speaker 3: be more vulnerable, specifically specifically in media spaces, you know,
Speaker 3: because I don't consider media spaces safe spaces, you know.
Speaker 3: So if you see me on the red carpet or
Speaker 3: if you see me doing an interview, like, I'm always
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, in that survival mode. And so
Speaker 3: I've had to really learn how to in my process
Speaker 3: in my journey of worthy as like finding my strength
Speaker 3: in my vulnerability, finding you know, finding my strength in
Speaker 3: the heartbreak of it all. You know, it's like finding
Speaker 3: my strength in surrender, finding my strength in my softness,
Speaker 3: you know, and not being afraid of those areas, you know.
Speaker 3: And so this, this whole journey for me has really
Speaker 3: like helped me with that. Like I don't have to
Speaker 3: I don't have to take on people's perception of me.
Speaker 3: I don't have to defend myself. I don't have to
Speaker 3: do any of that, right, But it's taken me a
Speaker 3: long time to figure that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know that's that's the beauty
Speaker 2: in with you too. And something where you wrote in
Speaker 2: your book, and I'm gonna pull up my notes right here,
Speaker 2: but you basically said when I saw this was also
Speaker 2: in one of the Red Table talks, is you brought
Speaker 2: a lot to your relationship from your past and your upbringing,
Speaker 2: which we all do.
Speaker 1: But I felt very in a way. I almost was like.
Speaker 2: Protective, not protective, but I was like I wanted to
Speaker 2: be well, well, Jada, like so does the next one,
Speaker 2: so so did so did Will or so did everyone
Speaker 2: else that you're with.
Speaker 1: And so I felt like how do I say this?
Speaker 2: Like there was a piece of me that, just like you,
Speaker 2: deserve to feel worthy and to feel loved, and I
Speaker 2: know that no man can make us feel that way.
Speaker 2: So where do you think we get lost in that
Speaker 2: piece of that self discovery and that self worth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think from my my journey, I really was
Speaker 3: expecting my relationships to substitute that which I didn't have
Speaker 3: for myself, whether it was self consideration, self respect, you know,
Speaker 3: coming from you know, being the child of my mother
Speaker 3: who you know was a heroin addict for most of
Speaker 3: my childhood, codependency, you know, it was like, Okay, that
Speaker 3: was my symbol of love. You sacrifice yourself for the
Speaker 3: people that you love. You, you deal with your boundary
Speaker 3: being you know, constantly violated or you know, so all
Speaker 3: of these kind of aberated ideas of what love is,
Speaker 3: and so coming into a relationship, expecting that man to
Speaker 3: fill every void that I had, and then also having
Speaker 3: these really false ideas of what love looks like, what
Speaker 3: love feels like, and so just the combination of that,
Speaker 3: and I think we all come with our stuff, right,
Speaker 3: And that's why in the book, I really spend more
Speaker 3: time thinking about my part because to me, that is
Speaker 3: how that's how I define taking back my power because
Speaker 3: for so long me looking at what somebody else was
Speaker 3: doing and trying to change that person's behavior is what
Speaker 3: kept me stuck in a cycle of pain, which kept
Speaker 3: me stuck. So I've learned to recognize my part. First,
Speaker 3: I can recognize what the other person, what their story is,
Speaker 3: and what's going on over there. But I know ultimately
Speaker 3: that I have the power to change whatever's happening through
Speaker 3: me being willing to change myself.
Speaker 2: Well, there's there's growth in that because I kind of
Speaker 2: felt the same thing with my past. Like after my divorce,
Speaker 2: I start dating something else, I'm like, I'm just repeating
Speaker 2: the same pattern.
Speaker 1: This is actually I could.
Speaker 2: Blame the men so the rest of my life, and
Speaker 2: that's going to get me literally nowhere. The problem isn't them, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're maybe the stuff they brought to it was bad,
Speaker 2: but I was the one that had to look in
Speaker 2: the mirror and do the work. Yeah, Like that was
Speaker 2: on me to go, oh crap, like it's actually I
Speaker 2: am the common denominator.
Speaker 1: Right, And it is interesting because in your book, so
Speaker 1: I severe independence is something a default too. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: hard and so so I mean, like you know, I've
Speaker 1: like openly said, like my sweet husband, like, how do
Speaker 1: you hug a bag of razor blades? Like I want
Speaker 1: to be hugged. But then also he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know how to come at you right, right, Like girl,
Speaker 1: like I'm trying, but I don't know. And there's something
Speaker 1: you said. And I think this sentence is one of
Speaker 1: the sentences of so many I can't express to you
Speaker 1: enough how much of this book is just like almost
Speaker 1: parts of it reading my own diary, Like different characters,
Speaker 1: different names, but so much similarity. There's a part in
Speaker 1: the book, in the chapter University of the b Moore
Speaker 1: Streets where you say, and I think Janna and I
Speaker 1: both identify with this, probably to the core of our DNA.
Speaker 1: You say, what I needed was a level of independence
Speaker 1: so that I could create my own safety. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you say home no longer gave me that. Yep,
Speaker 1: like I feel it makes me want to cry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that feels almost like biblical to like me truth wise,
Speaker 1: right you? So when you take someone as sturdy as you,
Speaker 1: as independent as you, and I think that one of
Speaker 1: the things that three of us probably share in common
Speaker 1: is maybe being scrutinized sometimes or maybe being two independent
Speaker 1: or blow you know whatever. The narrative is, how do
Speaker 1: you drop that independence when you enter a relationship and
Speaker 1: I mean you're you're it's not just a relationship. We're
Speaker 1: talking like we're talking Will freaking Smith. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is no you know, these are no these are people
Speaker 1: we all know and well we all know of I
Speaker 1: should say that's a more fair way to put it.
Speaker 1: But how do you come into a relationship with someone
Speaker 1: who probably is also because he's a human being coming
Speaker 1: in with his own things and go like what, how
Speaker 1: do you own the pieces of it and say I'm sorry?
Speaker 1: Is there a defining point for you where you go?
Speaker 1: I know, in this moment, I did something that helped
Speaker 1: change the course of this for better or worse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for me really learning myself right, once
Speaker 3: I started getting out of the blome game of oh
Speaker 3: blaming will for you know whatever, for everything basically right,
Speaker 3: And took some time to myself to realize, oh, no, chick,
Speaker 3: you're the common denominator, right, So once I really was
Speaker 3: willing to embrace that and then really look at Okay,
Speaker 3: let's look at how you function and how those particular
Speaker 3: defense mechanisms, those particular defaults play a part in the
Speaker 3: dynamic within yourself that also creates this dynamic with your partner, right,
Speaker 3: And I had to really break it down. So through
Speaker 3: my journey and therapy, through my journey with plant medicine,
Speaker 3: I really had to create an intimate relationship with myself
Speaker 3: so that I could understand through and through what that
Speaker 3: common denominator was, right, and then really be willing to
Speaker 3: be super like, to be really vigilant when I'm relating,
Speaker 3: so that I go, oh, there I go again, that
Speaker 3: judgment that tone that then triggers him, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, And then it's like, okay, pull it back.
Speaker 3: Was that loving? Was that kind? No, you're being judgmental
Speaker 3: and you're and the punisher is here?
Speaker 1: Does that also feel unsafe too? Because when you are
Speaker 1: wired the way you're wired, and and from environment too.
Speaker 1: This is like a nurture over nature, Like this is
Speaker 1: the ultimate right, Like you had to do what you
Speaker 1: had to do to survive, to be I mean, through
Speaker 1: your teens, through all of this. When when that's happening
Speaker 1: for you, are you then going like hold up, like
Speaker 1: I need I mean, is it Is it a moment
Speaker 1: where you just stop in your tracks and go, this
Speaker 1: is so vulnerable that now all the safety's gone. Because
Speaker 1: I think that is where I sometimes struggle. Right, if
Speaker 1: I get too vulnerable, if I get too honest, right,
Speaker 1: then I'm not safe anymore because now you're seeing parts
Speaker 1: of me that the razor blade floor it gets used
Speaker 1: against you, which has been right.
Speaker 3: So that's where that's where we have to develop a
Speaker 3: deeper sense of security within ourselves and so and that
Speaker 3: that's a really deep subject because in order to feel
Speaker 3: safe in our vulnerability, we cannot expect that safety to
Speaker 3: come out from the outside, right. We can't expect our
Speaker 3: partners to behave a certain way to make us feel
Speaker 3: safe for us to go into these spaces within ourselves. Right,
Speaker 3: So I had to really learn how to create that
Speaker 3: internal safety. I had to trust. Now for me, it
Speaker 3: was more about getting in contact with a higher power, right,
Speaker 3: and really sitting with some intense, vulnerable emotions alone that
Speaker 3: I thought were going to kill me.
Speaker 2: Well, those were the thoughts in the ayahuasca, right, like ya,
Speaker 2: kill yourself, kill yourself.
Speaker 1: You don't you deserve to die?
Speaker 3: Right, those thoughts, And so that was one of that
Speaker 3: was probably the beginning of me creating that intimate relationship
Speaker 3: that I'm talking about. And it took me and me
Speaker 3: to get through that. So this is where I started
Speaker 3: to develop that emotional trust in those spaces of vulnerability
Speaker 3: that were really dark, right, and really intense. And so
Speaker 3: I had to learn to practice being in those vulnerable, emotional,
Speaker 3: intense spaces with myself. I had to learn how to
Speaker 3: parent myself. I had to learn how to be my
Speaker 3: own mother. I had to learn how to be my
Speaker 3: own father, my own lover, my own husband, all of it,
Speaker 3: my own best friend. It's like, Jada, you are here
Speaker 3: alone with you that I could gather the understanding and
Speaker 3: the knowledge that I am my safety. So me being
Speaker 3: my safety, I'm going to be okay when I want
Speaker 3: to share my vulnerability and I want to share that
Speaker 3: well of sweet honey within me with someone else. Because
Speaker 3: no matter how they react, no matter what they say,
Speaker 3: no matter how they misstep, I know, I got me.
Speaker 3: It's going to be okay.
Speaker 1: You're loving the little girl and you that wasn't loved.
Speaker 3: Right, Loving that little girl in me that wasn't loved
Speaker 3: and that little girl, loving her and strengthening her is
Speaker 3: what creates that safe space within us to be able
Speaker 3: to share those spaces of vulnerability with other people.
Speaker 1: But we you know I.
Speaker 3: It's not based on it's not based on somebody else
Speaker 3: creating that safe space for us. Now, we do have
Speaker 3: to have the We do have to have the the
Speaker 3: understanding of.
Speaker 1: Who does not.
Speaker 3: Everybody deserves that that space. If you're speaking about a
Speaker 3: man that you've decided to be with, you know that
Speaker 3: you're committed to, That's that's where the work is, right.
Speaker 3: I look at relationships as a holy path in that way.
Speaker 1: That that that's really what.
Speaker 3: I feel as though that I'm learning on my journey.
Speaker 3: I got married because I, you know, I was pregnant
Speaker 3: and we wanted a family, but I also wanted I
Speaker 3: wanted I didn't want to deal with my ship. I
Speaker 3: expected that Will was going to be the savior, prince
Speaker 3: right and once I realize that, oh no, a marriage
Speaker 3: is about us having the fortitude to walk each other home,
Speaker 3: walk each other to that sacred space without as well
Speaker 3: as the sacred space within, and that's what the conflict
Speaker 3: within our intimate relationships are supposed to do. We're running
Speaker 3: into ourselves where we have to ask those questions of
Speaker 3: what is the common donation, I'm the common denominator here,
Speaker 3: what does that mean? And then really be able to
Speaker 3: look at our partners and go, Okay, for some of us,
Speaker 3: we didn't choose the right partners, and so it's time
Speaker 3: to move on. For some of us, we chose the
Speaker 3: perfect partner that is the perfect mirror that is consistently
Speaker 3: going to help us get through our shit, cleaning it
Speaker 3: up along the way.
Speaker 2: The piece too, that obviously, with your book out will
Speaker 2: when the stars it'll be out and the press talking
Speaker 2: about how okay, you've been separated since twenty sixteen, and
Speaker 2: that's kind of been the the storyline of certain pieces
Speaker 2: of the book. And you know, I'm curious, it's listen,
Speaker 2: it's not. It's not for us to and even though
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask the question, but that's y'all's decision
Speaker 2: to do what you want to do, right as someone
Speaker 2: who I also that for me the in between and
Speaker 2: I've is where my depression comes in at times. And
Speaker 2: so I'm curious, like in your in between because right now,
Speaker 2: it's like I saw on the I think it was
Speaker 2: another interview, you said, we are life partners and that's
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. Can you still have that and still
Speaker 2: like do you want to find a way to be
Speaker 2: the married couple again or is it something where do
Speaker 2: you have hope for love in a different area while
Speaker 2: still having a life partner yeah, or are you still
Speaker 2: just trying to figure it out? Because I'm like, I
Speaker 2: want you to have love and like you know, like
Speaker 2: my very you know tail heart, I'm just like I
Speaker 2: just want you to not feel that in between of like, well,
Speaker 2: yes we're not going to get divorced, but also that's fine,
Speaker 2: but you can also experience an amazing love too.
Speaker 1: I don't know, does that make sense?
Speaker 3: It does make sense, and right now, you know I
Speaker 3: talk about it in the book, but the situation at
Speaker 3: the oscars definitely brought us closer in a different way,
Speaker 3: right and right now, just we're still figuring it out
Speaker 3: because there's such deep love between us, and we've just
Speaker 3: been going through such like the Oscar situation forced us
Speaker 3: to have to go into even a deeper healing process
Speaker 3: than ever before, right even though it was starting before
Speaker 3: the oscars, but after the oscars, it's when it was like, okay,
Speaker 3: this is all on the table, right And so right
Speaker 3: now we've just really been enjoying like healing together and
Speaker 3: really figuring out how we want to how we want
Speaker 3: to do this right now. We don't want to be divorced,
Speaker 3: and we are really moving closer together. And so I
Speaker 3: wish I could say that I knew exactly what the
Speaker 3: landing place was going to be, but I just don't
Speaker 3: know yet. We're still working at it.
Speaker 1: And that's okay.
Speaker 2: But I think there's something beautiful about a new relationship.
Speaker 2: And that's something that obviously mine and my ex we
Speaker 2: couldn't figure out because there was I think so much
Speaker 2: resentment and on all sides. But I think there is
Speaker 2: beauty in that new relationship. And obviously you stood by
Speaker 2: his side during that time when you were sitting there
Speaker 2: not with him, and no one knew that, so you
Speaker 2: were sitting there as a supportive wife. And then you're
Speaker 2: getting the comments and the hate and I you know,
Speaker 2: you obviously talked about in the book about the eye
Speaker 2: roll and all the things that people made up. And
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine I have like the point zero
Speaker 2: zero one percent of the haters. And for you, it's
Speaker 2: like having people and you even talk about this like
Speaker 2: of course they're going to blame the woman. It's the
Speaker 2: woman's fault that he went up and did that, and
Speaker 2: or it's you know, the iyrol, all all those things,
Speaker 2: and it's like, I hated that you even had to
Speaker 2: It's not that you defended yourself you talked about it,
Speaker 2: but that you it was even something that had to
Speaker 2: be spoken about because no one knows the crap that
Speaker 2: you have to deal with from all the public and
Speaker 2: all the opinions. So was there a piece of you
Speaker 2: that was like, I'm going to share my story because
Speaker 2: I want to, or because you just didn't want the
Speaker 2: narrative being told for you.
Speaker 3: I thought it was just a worthy story to share, right,
Speaker 3: because it was what my journey has been in regards
Speaker 3: to like coming from this space of lack of self
Speaker 3: worth to feeling so worthy that I could sit in
Speaker 3: that fire in that way and be okay, Right, and
Speaker 3: so to me it was almost like a culmination of like,
Speaker 3: all right, just when you think okay, Jata, you feel worthy,
Speaker 3: you're about to get really tested right now, right? And
Speaker 3: I think for all of us our journeys might not
Speaker 3: be that extreme, but those moments where we've done a
Speaker 3: certain amount of work and then we've landed and gone,
Speaker 3: oh man, I'm in a totally different place than I
Speaker 3: was five years ago. Right, we have these these points.
Speaker 3: So for me it was so important to share my
Speaker 3: worthy journey because I feel like that is the journey
Speaker 3: for all of us, trying to find that level of
Speaker 3: self worth where we can just be okay, we can
Speaker 3: feel okay no matter what is happening, because life is
Speaker 3: going to do what it's going to do. Life is
Speaker 3: never gonna always present itself as pleasurable, blissful, enjoyable. We're
Speaker 3: gonna have our painful moments, right, So who are we
Speaker 3: when shit gets real? Who are we when shit gets tough? Right?
Speaker 2: And how do you not let those voices affect you
Speaker 2: with the people that have no idea? Because I say
Speaker 2: it doesn't fact me, but it still hurts. It's hard.
Speaker 1: I want to.
Speaker 2: Defend Yeah, but how do you not let that depress you,
Speaker 2: coming from you know, the line of depression that you
Speaker 2: have had in the past, Like what do you do
Speaker 2: to steer your path the right way?
Speaker 3: That's that's when you're really sitting in that worthy pocket
Speaker 3: with everything that I've been through, Right, it's like developing,
Speaker 3: having dismantled all those false beliefs about myself and built
Speaker 3: a new foundation of what is true, right, and being
Speaker 3: able to sit with that and once again not looking
Speaker 3: for validation right from an outside source. This is once
Speaker 3: again just doing that work that builds that sense of
Speaker 3: self within that inner kingdom, right, and really knowing for
Speaker 3: a fact who I am without needing any kind of
Speaker 3: validation from anyone else. And that's really about curing self judgment.
Speaker 3: Nobody's judgment can affect you. When you have really dealt
Speaker 3: with your self judgment. It's like somebody's like, she's a bitch.
Speaker 3: It's like, I'll give you that sometimes.
Speaker 1: Oh sis this morning, actually right, It's but then.
Speaker 3: Also knowing I'm so much more than that, and that's
Speaker 3: not who I am. I might have a moment of bitchiness,
Speaker 3: but that's not who I am.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So it's like when you know you and you've cured
Speaker 3: your own self judgment. Other people's judgment can't be a weapon.
Speaker 3: So what I've had to do, and I talk about
Speaker 3: this in the book, I mean really that journey of
Speaker 3: self judgment started on my metal music journey because I
Speaker 3: went out there and it was so much hate. I mean,
Speaker 3: my god, I'm talking about physical The boards on the
Speaker 3: eyes Fest joints were just, you know, full of the
Speaker 3: most brutal, hateful, vile threats, right And going out on
Speaker 3: stage every day and recognizing that and I'm not going
Speaker 3: to say that there weren't real threats out there, but
Speaker 3: most of them were not, and really getting to see
Speaker 3: that people's judgment, anything anybody has to say about you
Speaker 3: is a reflection, a projection of what's going on with them.
Speaker 3: And that's when that journey really started. And that's when
Speaker 3: I had to really start thinking about why does this
Speaker 3: bother you? Why are you so disrupted? And I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: this is about do you believe what these people are
Speaker 3: saying about you? Do you believe you don't deserve here, deserve.
Speaker 1: To be here?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: So that's the thing to look at, not what they're saying,
Speaker 3: but how you feel about what they're saying how you
Speaker 3: believe what they're saying, and.
Speaker 1: They can't strike a nerve. You can't be on the
Speaker 1: defense or live an offense, right, you know what you know,
Speaker 1: what you know, what you know to be true.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 2: I think my piece though, is I still have shame
Speaker 2: around some of my past or that I want to
Speaker 2: be like, No, but I've changed and I'm not that person,
Speaker 2: you know. Where that's the piece where I'm like, I
Speaker 2: have to just go rest in the what I know
Speaker 2: to be the truth today versus the past that's right.
Speaker 3: And just making peace with the past, because I'm with
Speaker 3: you on that, like on my journey. And I think
Speaker 3: as women, I think another reason why this was so
Speaker 3: important for me to write this book is because I
Speaker 3: don't believe that women often that we feel safe enough
Speaker 3: to talk about our real journeys, like the depth of it,
Speaker 3: because we feel like we're going to be ridiculed, we're
Speaker 3: going to be exiled, we're going to be looked upon
Speaker 3: as the bad woman. Right. And so I had been
Speaker 3: through Listen, I don't know any other words that people
Speaker 3: could call me, you know what I mean. It's like
Speaker 3: I've been through the gauntlet. So I felt like, YO,
Speaker 3: just offer your journey in a way that other women
Speaker 3: who are going through this can be seen. Offer your
Speaker 3: journey in a way that men who have women in
Speaker 3: their lives that they love can you can help them
Speaker 3: see those women you know, or the women that love
Speaker 3: those women, you know whatever. So for me, I just
Speaker 3: felt like, I know, when I was going through my
Speaker 3: journey and I got stuck, I so needed something that
Speaker 3: looked like reflected what I was going through, you know,
Speaker 3: just like little breadcrumbs, a bit of oxygen. And I
Speaker 3: was like, I want to offer that. I want to
Speaker 3: offer that. I want to offer those bread crumbs. I
Speaker 3: want to offer you know, that oxygen for someone who
Speaker 3: is stuck somewhere feeling hopeless.
Speaker 2: Was there a chapter in the book where I don't
Speaker 2: know if you experienced this, like where I remember when
Speaker 2: I was writing, I I could write, but when I
Speaker 2: came to the audio recording of the book, there was
Speaker 2: a chapter where I really struggled getting through a chapter
Speaker 2: and I kept crying and I had to stop. And
Speaker 2: I'm curious if there was a story or a chapter
Speaker 2: that you really struggled with.
Speaker 3: M Yeah, there were.
Speaker 1: There There was some heavy stuff in that book.
Speaker 2: I'm reading, I'm just like, you know, when you talk
Speaker 2: about the iahuasc when you talked about finding the cliff,
Speaker 2: I'm just like, wow.
Speaker 1: My grandmother, like my grandmother, that was one.
Speaker 3: That was one my grandmother.
Speaker 1: Like I cried reading that, like that is you, sister?
Speaker 1: Those were the breadcrumbs. Yeah, like the moments where I
Speaker 1: was like, now, this is some Jada I can get
Speaker 1: down with, Like this is the Jada I've been trying
Speaker 1: to get to understand.
Speaker 3: Right, right right, which is why I you know, I
Speaker 3: felt like that part of my story was so important.
Speaker 3: I felt like, I'm so glad you said that because
Speaker 3: I felt like, oh my goodness, if people don't know this,
Speaker 3: you'll never really get to, you know, the inside of me. Right.
Speaker 3: But definitely reading the parts about my grandmother and then there,
Speaker 3: you know, there was some pop. There was some parts
Speaker 3: about Pop that would just I thought that I had,
Speaker 3: you know, resolved a lot of issues around that as
Speaker 3: far as the loss of him, and you know that
Speaker 3: the story when I went to Wrikers and had to
Speaker 3: leave him there, that was hard. So it was you know,
Speaker 3: it was pieces, it was pieces like that that were
Speaker 3: really difficult.
Speaker 1: When you closed the book and you and you decided
Speaker 1: worthy is done the book itself. What's the main feeling
Speaker 1: that came over you as like a woman and author
Speaker 1: a daughter? Mama.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just I was just so happy. I
Speaker 3: was happy that I accomplished it because it was so
Speaker 3: many times when I just wanted to quit. I was
Speaker 3: just like, I don't want it, I'm done, you know it.
Speaker 1: Just why it was the noise?
Speaker 2: Was it just the challenge of the book writing process,
Speaker 2: the emotions.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, it was. It was a really challenging process
Speaker 3: because you know, I'm not writing about the entirety of
Speaker 3: my life, right, I decided to specifically walk the eggs
Speaker 3: out lands, specifically walk the shadow lands of my experience,
Speaker 3: so every excuse you feel me. So I was in
Speaker 3: the valley of the shadow of death the entire time.
Speaker 1: It's heavy, it's heavy, right, It's real though, it is
Speaker 1: like palpable, like you can feel it.
Speaker 3: Right, And that was the thing, because I had to
Speaker 3: go back and relive it all.
Speaker 1: You know what, But you did it so beautifully. I mean,
Speaker 1: you really did.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I really, I mean, it just makes a person who
Speaker 1: I mean, I have to just be completely honest with you.
Speaker 1: I had no idea what to expect from you, Jada
Speaker 1: the Woman today, Right, I think that's what this book does.
Speaker 1: I think that's what being able to sit I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: did I ever think that Kristen from the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 1: Michigan was ever going to get to sit with Jada
Speaker 1: Pinkettsmith and ask questions like woman to woman? Ever? Did
Speaker 1: I think? Did I ever think this was going to
Speaker 1: be my best friend? You know, and we do worll
Speaker 1: deep because we will cut for each other. But like,
Speaker 1: it's crazy for me to be able to like sit
Speaker 1: with you. You're so disarming. I think that's one thing
Speaker 1: I do want people to understand when they listen to this,
Speaker 1: because I will be honest with you. The perception that
Speaker 1: media has given me of you is wildly unfair. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your strength. They love to edit to make your strength
Speaker 1: feel like you are just like hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah that I'm steel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And some of that is true and good, but
Speaker 1: a lot of that is wrapped in this like really
Speaker 1: beautiful woman who just is being really super honest. Thank you,
Speaker 1: And we all needed a minute. I mean I needed
Speaker 1: to know that about you, right.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, and you know from woman to woman.
Speaker 3: I just think that that's why I feel it's so
Speaker 3: important that we share our stories so that we can
Speaker 3: we can understand the nuances, so that when we see somebody,
Speaker 3: like when I see a strong woman and I'm like, oh, oh,
Speaker 3: she's got a difference, it's like I know how to like,
Speaker 3: all right, let me just like, let me, let me
Speaker 3: dip over here for a minute and see if I
Speaker 3: can get around this corner and get around the next corner.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. It's like because there's certain
Speaker 3: walls that I understand because I've had them too, you know,
Speaker 3: but I can look and see there's more there, you know.
Speaker 3: So as women, as we as we share more of
Speaker 3: our stories and we understand these different nuances of one
Speaker 3: another and just help each other, just help bring each
Speaker 3: other out, you know, create safe space like you guys
Speaker 3: are creating today for me, you know, so that we
Speaker 3: can just have real talk, because at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, that's what we don't have enough of, you know,
Speaker 3: I have enough real talk amongst us, you know, so
Speaker 3: that we can really understand the heroine's journey, our journey
Speaker 3: from a feminine perspective. And when I talk about feminine.
Speaker 3: I'm not necessarily talking about gender. I'm talking about energetically
Speaker 3: as well, because we have men that that you know,
Speaker 3: on their journey, their heroine's journey, when they've accomplished everything
Speaker 3: they've accomplished in the world and now the only place
Speaker 3: to go is the inner world of feelings.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and you even said too in your book,
Speaker 2: like I'm going to be there by a side, but
Speaker 2: he also has to figure it out. And I love
Speaker 2: that too, because I can't. You can't make anyone happy.
Speaker 2: And I learned that lesson you know, for me too,
Speaker 2: like he can't make I can't make him happy, Like
Speaker 2: I'll be a I will stand by you, but I
Speaker 2: can't do it for you, and you have to do it.
Speaker 1: You have to do it.
Speaker 2: And that's something too that I was like, Wow, I
Speaker 2: was like truth when I hate, and you know, I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's all of that is so true. And you know,
Speaker 2: to kind of wrap up first of all, I love
Speaker 2: that you put in all the amazing quotes in the
Speaker 2: book too, and the meditations and in the poems. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean so beautifully. While done, I just I cannot
Speaker 2: wait for everyone to read this And what what do
Speaker 2: you want the biggest takeaway to be for people that
Speaker 2: pick up this book.
Speaker 3: You know, honestly, I'm just hoping that the biggest takeaway
Speaker 3: is just like what you guys shared with me today
Speaker 3: is that you were like, there's so much in here
Speaker 3: that I could relate to. There was so much in
Speaker 3: here that gave me, you know, oxygen. You know. It's
Speaker 3: like that to me was the reason that I wrote
Speaker 3: this book because I feel like our journeys to self
Speaker 3: worth are pretty universal, and you know, and and it's
Speaker 3: it's it's it's not always expressed what it takes to
Speaker 3: feel whole as a woman, you know, and so and
Speaker 3: it because it's a it's a it's not a for
Speaker 3: the faint at heart, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's also something too. I want to say, it's
Speaker 2: okay to not tell the whole truth of things when
Speaker 2: you're still trying to figure things out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, because.
Speaker 2: Some people it's like, yeah, so you talked about the
Speaker 2: entanglements on Red Table Talk. You didn't say like, there's pieces,
Speaker 2: but that's okay, Like not everybody gets to like you
Speaker 2: are being open and willing to be authentic and share
Speaker 2: your story, but there are also pieces that people think
Speaker 2: they just get to take it all.
Speaker 1: You don't.
Speaker 3: You don't and that's the truth, and you get to
Speaker 3: control that absolutely, and you know, you know, just getting
Speaker 3: people to understand that, you know, my relationship with Will
Speaker 3: is what it is. It's not going to look like
Speaker 3: you know, it's probably not going to look like the
Speaker 3: way everybody wants it to look like most likely, you know,
Speaker 3: and people just gott to be with that because we're
Speaker 3: that's okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2: As long as you know that you are worthy of
Speaker 2: love and you feel loved and you feel safe, like
Speaker 2: that is my biggest wish and prayer for you, that
Speaker 2: you can just like you know that in your soul
Speaker 2: that you're worthy of the greatest love, not just relationally
Speaker 2: but just in life, and you have that with your
Speaker 2: kids and you have it's not just a man too,
Speaker 2: which is I always equated it to a man, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but like there's so much other forms of love. And
Speaker 2: as long as you feel worthy and people that read
Speaker 2: this book know that they deserve worth, that is when
Speaker 2: your life starts to change and you don't have to
Speaker 2: feel the heaviness of it all.
Speaker 1: I do also love that you and Will are still married,
Speaker 1: Like I just need a minute with that, because that's
Speaker 1: not common either. I mean, sis, it's like divorce core
Speaker 1: all over the place. I mean, and I'm on my
Speaker 1: second husband, so but I'm just you know, like I'm
Speaker 1: in a relationship. And my husband is an artist, right,
Speaker 1: so that comes with its own thing, and he has
Speaker 1: his own thing, and he is a sweet leo. But
Speaker 1: he loves himself some attention and some validation and he's
Speaker 1: up shaking it and getting it, you know. And I
Speaker 1: love that too. But we are in over the last
Speaker 1: probably thirteen fourteen months, a real reinvention of who we
Speaker 1: are as a married couple too. And we've been together
Speaker 1: nine years, and I is there points in our marriage
Speaker 1: where people would go, why wouldn't y'all, why would y'all
Speaker 1: even be together?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I just appreciate that you can be real that
Speaker 1: marriage is not easy. Is not the fairy tale. I mean,
Speaker 1: I we just celebrated an anniversary. I said something similar
Speaker 1: on Instagram because people always like, oh, I should had
Speaker 1: a couple goals, and I'm like, no, y'all just see
Speaker 1: what I share because I'm trying to keep it positive.
Speaker 1: But I also was just like, this is not the movies.
Speaker 1: This is the kind of love you sit down with
Speaker 1: your grandkids and say, shit is real and we still tried.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: And I really love that about you too, even not
Speaker 1: knowing anything about you too. I just love that you're
Speaker 1: like we are still We're close, and we're fighting for
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 3: We are just trying to figure it out, you know.
Speaker 3: And it's like what we have tried everything to get
Speaker 3: away from each other, right.
Speaker 1: And I feel that too, but.
Speaker 3: It's so but you know, we just have so much
Speaker 3: love for each other.
Speaker 1: And we respect too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all of that, like that is the reinvention.
Speaker 3: When you talk about reinventing, like Will and Iron such
Speaker 3: a different, beautiful phase.
Speaker 1: And how long of you and Will been together?
Speaker 3: Okay, so always funny, it's about twenty eight twenty twenty
Speaker 3: eight years, twenty nine years, yep.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're not reinventing, then at some point
Speaker 1: you're just chilling, right, what are we what are we doing?
Speaker 3: Right? And so you know, we're both transforming so much
Speaker 3: and just being able to have each other in this
Speaker 3: in that process and being willing to be there for
Speaker 3: one another.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3: That's that's my road dog.
Speaker 1: It's yeah. I love that he's our road dog too.
Speaker 2: Jada Jada so much. I just I love you and
Speaker 2: again you are anytime you're in Nashville. Please like, let me.
Speaker 1: Just let me just hug you once, Jada, let met
Speaker 1: you too long, girl, Just let me get in here.
Speaker 1: I needed you today. You are a really beautiful human.
Speaker 2: We'll do some red wine and just kicky yes please, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: FUND appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys. Oh, Jada Jada, I feel so like
Speaker 3: relieved or something.
Speaker 1: Is that a weird feeling to have. It's not because
Speaker 1: I was nervous. It's more so because it's like I
Speaker 1: think I was a Will Smith fan first. Yeah, are
Speaker 1: we all? I knew him first. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: just fresh prince forever, you know. And so I feel
Speaker 1: like any discourd or anything you see, you're just kind
Speaker 1: of like m you know, and like he's growing right
Speaker 1: also growing up thirty years in the public eye or plus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting too in the book how she said
Speaker 2: that she thought the whole slap thing was a skit too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had kind of heard around the world
Speaker 1: I know. And that's and then everybody had an opinion
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: I know how they spun the whole in which she
Speaker 2: again she talked about she's like a right, let's talk
Speaker 2: about the eye roll.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this in the book.
Speaker 2: And it's I but also her sitting there having to
Speaker 2: pretend that they're Mary, you know, when they're separated. The
Speaker 2: whole thing is just like I.
Speaker 1: Think people sometimes forget, like what would it be like,
Speaker 1: I mean, Jamma, even in the time we've known each other, Like,
Speaker 1: can you imagine if there was a camera on me? Uh?
Speaker 1: I mean, friend, legit, I have some said and done
Speaker 1: some shit probably you know, Like it's unfair. It's just unfair.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful that you all put yourself in the public eye.
Speaker 1: I think it's admirable. It's also I'm just never envious.
Speaker 1: I've said that to you, I say that to her.
Speaker 1: Is that it almost everybody.
Speaker 2: Well, I think she's walking through it really, really gracefully.
Speaker 2: And there is a piece too where I remember when
Speaker 2: she did the table talk stuff where and then about
Speaker 2: the whole entanglement stuff and then now saying she's so
Speaker 2: My first thing was like, well, the why not just
Speaker 2: be all honest. Well, you know what, sometimes when I
Speaker 2: was too honest, that's when I don't have it figured out.
Speaker 2: That's when it's not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also like, I don't know that I've ever
Speaker 1: had everybody figured out enough to go public with anything, right, right,
Speaker 1: I mean I haven't still don't. Well, I love you,
Speaker 1: I love you, and thank you for sharing your people.
Speaker 1: I needed today. I actually needed a lot of that
Speaker 1: book too. The cover is beautiful too. Yeah, all the
Speaker 1: little pieces of her creating her own ODO.
Speaker 2: So everyone go get the book. Worthy by Jada Pinkett
Speaker 2: Smith will be back next week.
Speaker 3: Bye.