Speaker 1: Hey, well, I welcome in. I'm Doug Gadley. This is
Speaker 1: All Ball, where this is part two of our talk
Speaker 1: with Rex Walters. Rex, of course, was a star guard
Speaker 1: at Northwestern, then he transferred to Kansas. We covered all
Speaker 1: this in part one. If you missed it, it's great
Speaker 1: and I mean his career is fascinating by the way.
Speaker 1: I think. Next All Ball we'll probably do um some
Speaker 1: reaction to college basketball as of Christmas, and of course
Speaker 1: the Christmas Day NBA games if they go off with
Speaker 1: all the craziness that that's taking place. But the meantime,
Speaker 1: let's dig back in with Rex Walters. Okay, So when
Speaker 1: we last caught up with him, um, he'd taken us
Speaker 1: through his playing career, which of course spanned not just
Speaker 1: high school and two colleges, but also the NBA A
Speaker 1: sigh draft pick, and then he makes the league and
Speaker 1: he bounces around and then then what how do you
Speaker 1: how do you get into coaching? And how do you
Speaker 1: go from playing to coaching to being a head coach
Speaker 1: at such a young age at Florida Atlantic and then
Speaker 1: why take the San Francisco job? And you're way tie
Speaker 1: here he shares with us what it's like to get fired.
Speaker 1: What he's done since, and how he watched his basketball
Speaker 1: now and what's left for his basketball careers? Only fifty
Speaker 1: one years sold. Alright, so let's tag back in. By
Speaker 1: the way, if you like some of the stuff that
Speaker 1: we do here, great way to listen is on a
Speaker 1: daily basis. The Doug Olive Show airs from three to
Speaker 1: six Eastern or twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1: The I Heart Radio app Serious x M two SEV
Speaker 1: two oh three. That's Dan Patrick's channel. It's not the
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Challenge Acino a reminder to download, subscribe, rate,
Speaker 1: write a review. I write a nice review. I got
Speaker 1: some mean reviews. Maybe we'll do a mean review, um pod,
Speaker 1: that'd be fun. We could do it that one time. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's take back in. Here's Rex Walter's part two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was Spain like? Playing in Spain? Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: go to Spain. I go there about a month after
Speaker 1: I was released by the Heat. It was it was
Speaker 1: bad for me. I didn't like it. I went to Leone, Spain.
Speaker 1: It was really weird. Like, so you go to practice
Speaker 1: in the morning, you practice, you know, nine o'clock. You
Speaker 1: go for like three hours and You'll do a lot
Speaker 1: of shooting, you do a lot of skill work. You
Speaker 1: understand why international basketball is as good as it is
Speaker 1: because and you have younger players, like high school kids
Speaker 1: that are working out with NBA, you know, NBA professional players.
Speaker 1: Your coaches are coaching you. So you practice for two
Speaker 1: and a half three hours, a lot of shooting, a
Speaker 1: lot of ball handling, a lot of skill work, and
Speaker 1: then you'd have you know, from twelve to about five,
Speaker 1: they have this thing called siesta. Everything's closed down. So
Speaker 1: you're coming out of practice. You know how it is
Speaker 1: that you come out of practice, you want to get
Speaker 1: some foods, you want to relax, maybe go then go
Speaker 1: back to your apartment, take a nap, whatever, Like I
Speaker 1: couldn't find a place to eat. And the other thing
Speaker 1: is I didn't know I didn't speak Spanish, so you're
Speaker 1: basically eating bad food Like mcdonald' you're going to mcdonale
Speaker 1: is way too much. They had a t G I
Speaker 1: F Fridays, you know in Grand Canary when I played
Speaker 1: there and so but but basically everything is shut down
Speaker 1: for like three hours. Nobody's working, nobody's out there, and
Speaker 1: then you go back to practice at night, you go
Speaker 1: from like five, like seven, seven thirty, and that's more
Speaker 1: up and down. You're gonna play, you're gonna play half court,
Speaker 1: you're gonna work on defense, and then the day's over
Speaker 1: with and then it all starts over. And then when
Speaker 1: you're playing in Spain and you're playing on a you know,
Speaker 1: not necessarily a good team, like we were a team
Speaker 1: that only played one game a week, and so you play,
Speaker 1: you one game, you win the game, and like it's
Speaker 1: like m NFL football. Everybody loves you, you know, the
Speaker 1: things that you can't read in the paper, but they've
Speaker 1: got great pictures. You're smiling, but if you lose, you
Speaker 1: gotta deal with you know, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,
Speaker 1: all the way to Saturday, where you know, people are
Speaker 1: talking about you, killing you, and you don't even know
Speaker 1: what they're saying to you because they don't speak your language.
Speaker 1: And I was a little paranoid. I'm American, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: in Spain. I'm trying to prey. And I played well.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not like I didn't play well. But
Speaker 1: I remember one time walking in the locker room and
Speaker 1: kind of the the guy that manages the team had
Speaker 1: my passport, and I'm like, I cust the dude out.
Speaker 1: I'm like, don't you ever touch go into my bag,
Speaker 1: grab my passport because you hear stories like hey, they're
Speaker 1: gonna steal your passport. You can never leave, you know.
Speaker 1: So I'm cursing this dude out and I'm just thinking
Speaker 1: to myself, this dude understands me. Now he didn't understand
Speaker 1: me before when I was speaking, but now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden he can understand what I'm saying. And I'm
Speaker 1: you know, m F and the dude. So that was
Speaker 1: it was hard. You know, it was hard for me.
Speaker 1: My wife we had let me see, the first time around,
Speaker 1: we had we had an apartment, we had two kids,
Speaker 1: my wife was pregnant at the time. It was that
Speaker 1: was a hard experience for me, and we weren't good.
Speaker 1: We're trying not to get relegated, so there's a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure. It's not like the NBA. You don't go
Speaker 1: to the G League. If your team is in the
Speaker 1: bottom two in your league and this league you go
Speaker 1: down the league and it affects your sponsorships, it affects
Speaker 1: your money in terms of that organization. You don't want
Speaker 1: to be in the bottom too and get relegated to
Speaker 1: the second division. So there's a lot of pressure. I
Speaker 1: think we probably saw it ted Lasso with soccer. It's
Speaker 1: the same way, like you don't want to go down
Speaker 1: a level, and everyone is taught, especially with the Americans.
Speaker 1: If you're a guy, that's that's counted on. So that
Speaker 1: was a big adjustment for me. The first time, I
Speaker 1: ended up tearing my meniscus when I was over there
Speaker 1: and I played about three games, and then I went
Speaker 1: back again after playing the A B A for Kevin Pritchard.
Speaker 1: I went back again and played about ten games and
Speaker 1: then tore my calf. It was it was a nightmare.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a great experience for me playing And now
Speaker 1: now the body is starting to failure. Right now, it's
Speaker 1: like things, So how old are you under time? H thirty?
Speaker 1: I mean that you get to the point where you're
Speaker 1: you're warm up is about like thirty to forty five
Speaker 1: minutes right your workouts about an hour hour fifteen and
Speaker 1: then you're going another thirty four to five minutes afterwards,
Speaker 1: like you're spending three accwards to get an hour of working.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, because you got. I got
Speaker 1: torm niscus par my cab and the genitive this disease
Speaker 1: at like thirty thirty one, and you start to see
Speaker 1: the writings on the wall. Um, in your mind, are
Speaker 1: you thinking I want to coach your mind? And thinking
Speaker 1: I want to keep doing this, you know, and just
Speaker 1: keep the body together, Like what's going on in your mind?
Speaker 1: So we moved to Kansas City. I played two different
Speaker 1: camps I played. I went to Toronto to playing weather
Speaker 1: like free agent workout camps, and then I went to
Speaker 1: Denver and played Summer League with them um and played well,
Speaker 1: like I played well my last game. It's funny we're
Speaker 1: playing against and again we talked about the confidence and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. I'm playing against Tony Parker in one
Speaker 1: of my last games and summer in summer league with
Speaker 1: the with the Nuggets, and I'm just going at Tony.
Speaker 1: Tony is going at me, but I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 1: letting some dude from France kick my butt. So I'm
Speaker 1: talking to him, yapping at him, and they double t
Speaker 1: me and I end up playing like twelve fourteen minutes
Speaker 1: and so I should cut my last game of summer League.
Speaker 1: But that's again. When that when that aggressive, you know,
Speaker 1: confident dude hurt himself. But after that I talked to Mark.
Speaker 1: We're getting ready to training camp, and I say to Mark, like, hey,
Speaker 1: what what do we got? We got anything? I said,
Speaker 1: I just want to a make good deal if I
Speaker 1: can get to make good because I don't want to
Speaker 1: go back to Spain. We talked about getting hurt twice
Speaker 1: when I'm in Spain. Can I get him make good?
Speaker 1: I played well in Toronto, I played well in Denver.
Speaker 1: What's up? He's like, Rex, no one's gonna sign you
Speaker 1: your You'd be an eight year veteran minimum, which is
Speaker 1: a lot more than a than a younger player. So
Speaker 1: at that point I just never forget this. I just
Speaker 1: I'm on the phone. My wife's watching because she loves basketball,
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, I'm done. Then I'm gonna retire.
Speaker 1: And you know, honestly, to be honest with you, Doug,
Speaker 1: for about a month, I was like, all right, I'm
Speaker 1: gonn to play golf every day. I lived on a
Speaker 1: golf course. I wanna play about thirty six holes day,
Speaker 1: and by the time I get fifty, I'm gonna play
Speaker 1: in the senior League, which I had no chance of doing.
Speaker 1: But you want to playing the senior to Yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to play in the PGA Senior Tour at fifty
Speaker 1: with a degenerative disc in your back? How are you
Speaker 1: gonna do that? I'm gonna say I was still in
Speaker 1: shape now, I'd still do my crunches. Like swinging a
Speaker 1: golf clubs different than having to you know, make a
Speaker 1: cut through a crossover, change directions like I'm gonna play
Speaker 1: golf like I probably wouldn't have made it, and you're
Speaker 1: right at the back. Probably would have caught up me
Speaker 1: later on. But but anyway, I did that for about
Speaker 1: a month. My WI wife's like, something's gotta stop. This
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. You gotta get a job. And so I
Speaker 1: called around, called all the people I know, Roy Williams,
Speaker 1: pat Riley, Standban Gundy, Mark Church and Mark Church and
Speaker 1: helped me get a a UM what is it? A
Speaker 1: volunteer assistant job at Imporious State University working for a
Speaker 1: guy name you may know, the name David Mo. David Mo,
Speaker 1: his father's Doug Mo, was a great be a coach
Speaker 1: And I was driving two and a half hours every
Speaker 1: day to be a voluntaire assistant Jeff Lender, who's now
Speaker 1: Wyoming uh was was his assistant, and I would I
Speaker 1: was there for about three months and then um, I
Speaker 1: find out about Valpos situation. You know, Scott Drew goes
Speaker 1: to Baylor they had the Patrick Denny he situation. Scott
Speaker 1: Drew goes down there. I called Bryce and say, hey,
Speaker 1: what's going on? What's your father gonna do? And what's
Speaker 1: Scott gonna do if he has any openings on his staff?
Speaker 1: And Scott called me and said, would you like to
Speaker 1: be a graduate manager? We only got eight guys on scholarship.
Speaker 1: I know you can still play a little bit. Would
Speaker 1: you like just come? You're allowed to play if you're
Speaker 1: a graduate manager? And I said, well, Scott, I could
Speaker 1: probably make more if I went back overseas. I don't
Speaker 1: really want to do that. I want to coach. And
Speaker 1: then right after I said that to Scott, about two
Speaker 1: days later, Homer Drew called me and said, would you
Speaker 1: like to interview for the job here at Valpo? And
Speaker 1: that's how I got my foot in the door into coaching.
Speaker 1: So you get good to Valpo Indiana, which is um right,
Speaker 1: I don't know what what feels perception of it is
Speaker 1: like for me, it's like one of those towns. It's
Speaker 1: like a truck stop. It feels like it's got like
Speaker 1: Walmart like everything. It's just on the way to South
Speaker 1: Bend right from Chicago. Um. Yeah, like you'd come down
Speaker 1: a little bit off the NBA hive. You're playing overseas
Speaker 1: and and doing the minor league thing, the A B A.
Speaker 1: But you show up a Valpo and what's your first memories?
Speaker 1: Homer Drew just how you're right, there's two exits. Basically,
Speaker 1: there's two exits for Valpo. When you're on your little
Speaker 1: freeway that you've got one exit, you got a second exit,
Speaker 1: and then you're you're heading to South Bend. So you're
Speaker 1: you're all right about that? Um. It was a Lutheran university.
Speaker 1: It was They really loved their basketball, Indiana basketball. It
Speaker 1: is very important. They would they would get good crowds
Speaker 1: for the games. Homer Drew was like super duper positive,
Speaker 1: like didn't really raise his boys, didn't want to get
Speaker 1: on guys. Which was different for me because I played
Speaker 1: for Wary Williams. I played for pat Riley played in
Speaker 1: the NBA, so that was different. The players were pretty good.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot like you know when you when
Speaker 1: you played for a long time and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you coach, you think you got it all
Speaker 1: figured out. You don't. There's a lot of things you
Speaker 1: gotta learn. How to deal with players, how to deal
Speaker 1: with levels. A little bit different level player than than
Speaker 1: you know, maybe what I've been around, but just really
Speaker 1: good man like great hearts. You can see why Scott
Speaker 1: and Bryce have had success because they probably relate more
Speaker 1: to the modern day player than a lot of guys do.
Speaker 1: They're very positive people. Um. He gave me my first shot,
Speaker 1: who worked there for two years and went to the
Speaker 1: NA Tournament. My first year, we won the conference tournament,
Speaker 1: played Gonzaga. My second year, we weren't quite as good
Speaker 1: than Matt. Doherty gets sta f AU job. So Matt
Speaker 1: gets it obviously, that's part of the You played for
Speaker 1: him at Kansas. He was assistant Kansas, and he saw
Speaker 1: a part of that family tree. He gets the job
Speaker 1: and immediately called you. Did you called him? Did you
Speaker 1: call coach Williams? How did it work? So? First I
Speaker 1: was down in Florida visiting my in laws and I
Speaker 1: found out about the f AU opening. I just drove
Speaker 1: to f a U and I just sat in front
Speaker 1: of the athletic director's door and said, hey, I want
Speaker 1: to interview for this job. I've been at out for
Speaker 1: the last two years and he and Craig Angelos was
Speaker 1: the idea at the time. He was very nice, you know,
Speaker 1: he said, well, you know, ask me questions, spent some
Speaker 1: time with but that wasn't gonna happen at two years experience.
Speaker 1: And I when I go back to Valpo, Matt calls
Speaker 1: me and says, hey, do you have a legit chance
Speaker 1: at because if you do, I don't want to get involved.
Speaker 1: And I said, I have no shot at this job,
Speaker 1: like the guy just did a courtesy thing. I showed
Speaker 1: up unannounced. He said, well, if I if I got involved,
Speaker 1: would you come with me? And I was on my
Speaker 1: treadmill and I'm like, yeah, if you get it, like
Speaker 1: I'd love to do it. So that's really how it happened.
Speaker 1: I didn't call coach Williams. Coach Williams knew nothing about it,
Speaker 1: didn't call any of my MBA people. It was really,
Speaker 1: you know, Matt reaching out to me. We had had discussions,
Speaker 1: we had kept in touch. Obviously, when you lose a job,
Speaker 1: in North Carolina, like you reach out to the people
Speaker 1: you love and care about, Like he had two of
Speaker 1: the best jobs you can get noted aime in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: Like who gets jobs like that and then not to
Speaker 1: have good success at Notre Dame to go to North Carolina,
Speaker 1: has some good success and then get fired. Uh, you
Speaker 1: know you reach out you always. I think I always
Speaker 1: reach out to people when they're going through tough times.
Speaker 1: Any coach or player that I have any kind of relationship,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna reach out. So basically he offered me the job.
Speaker 1: Um I was making like forty one grand to live
Speaker 1: in Boca a Tone the we had a hurricane go
Speaker 1: through the place that year. We ended up having a
Speaker 1: winning season. When I think fifteen and thirteen learned a lot,
Speaker 1: like Matt's a really detailed guy with recruiting, with how
Speaker 1: he wants to play, and I think he was also
Speaker 1: trying to find himself. He didn't want to run the
Speaker 1: Carolina Kansas stuff. You wanted to break away from that.
Speaker 1: But uh, I learned an awful lot in just one
Speaker 1: year working for him, and then he got the s
Speaker 1: m U job. So then what you do? So Matt,
Speaker 1: give me a really good advice and says, hey, um,
Speaker 1: stay stay in Boca and where the job. Like when
Speaker 1: people see you that you want them to envision this
Speaker 1: guy could be a head coach. This guy and if
Speaker 1: you don't get it, you're gonna come with me to
Speaker 1: s M you like, it's a pretty good Situation's like,
Speaker 1: so just stay there, deal with that. They're gonna hear
Speaker 1: here a lot of names. You're gonna hear a lot
Speaker 1: of people they're supposed to get the job. Just stay there, work,
Speaker 1: work with the players, you know, and and present an
Speaker 1: image that you could be a head coach. And that's
Speaker 1: exactly what I did. You know. You hear all kinds
Speaker 1: of names, like stan Van Gundy's interested. He had just
Speaker 1: been let go of the Miami Heats. I called Sam's like,
Speaker 1: are you really interested? And he's like, are you crazy?
Speaker 1: You think I can want to coach at Florid Atlantic.
Speaker 1: There's no way in the world, Like, like, I just
Speaker 1: got done coach with Miami Heat. Like they're just using
Speaker 1: my name to try to bump up the job. He's like,
Speaker 1: I have no interest in being a college coach, So
Speaker 1: I I just I hung around. I hung around and
Speaker 1: about three weeks into it, Craig Angelis and the president
Speaker 1: called me in the office. They asked me if I
Speaker 1: wanted the job, what I would do if I got
Speaker 1: the job, how how I would lay this thing out?
Speaker 1: And I really just said, hey, I want to continue
Speaker 1: with Matt started. You know, We're gonna run a lot
Speaker 1: of the same stuff. I'm gonna play the same way
Speaker 1: we're gonna I want a lot. I believed in the
Speaker 1: players he's recruiting. I helped recruit him, and I got
Speaker 1: the opportunity. I was there for two years. I had
Speaker 1: an interview at at at one place that I was
Speaker 1: gonna take. I didn't at the end of the day.
Speaker 1: And then I remember this, and we had decent teams,
Speaker 1: but as a young coach and uh, I still haven't
Speaker 1: figured this one out. Like I had had some good players,
Speaker 1: but we had all kinds of disciplinary issues and so
Speaker 1: guys not going to class this, that and the other.
Speaker 1: And probably hurt myself because my best player, you know,
Speaker 1: suspended him ten games, spending another player, you know, five
Speaker 1: to ten games, and we ended up having eight eight
Speaker 1: fifteen my first year. I think we're two or three
Speaker 1: games under five second year. But then Glenn Sugiyama from
Speaker 1: DHR called me about the University of San Francisco, and
Speaker 1: so that's how I got involved with that. Fox Sports
Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search at
Speaker 1: that's our to listen live. So you've only been there
Speaker 1: two years sans from calling, but it's it's home and
Speaker 1: San Francisco. Now they put the money into it right
Speaker 1: where they've redne it and the building is really nice.
Speaker 1: But then it wasn't um was it just I want
Speaker 1: to go home? Was it? You know that there's just
Speaker 1: a limit to for Atlantic and what you can do?
Speaker 1: Was the thought process and leaving so uh so quickly.
Speaker 1: So when I turned out, I turned out another job
Speaker 1: and I called my a D and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: I got two more years on my contract. Uh, is
Speaker 1: there in your way I can bump this up to four.
Speaker 1: I'd like to try to, you know, have some stability.
Speaker 1: Players are gonna know I got four years on my contract.
Speaker 1: They know I'm gonna be here a while. And the
Speaker 1: idea at the time said, no, nobody's getting any kind
Speaker 1: of extension. He's like I'm on a one one year deal.
Speaker 1: Every year, I gotta do my job at a high
Speaker 1: level to keep my job. And I said, well, if
Speaker 1: you do that, it's gonna be really tough. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to keep looking. I'm gonna have to, you know,
Speaker 1: be open to other jobs. And that's when San Francisco
Speaker 1: cold and I said to them, I'm not interested. I
Speaker 1: just turned down a job. My wife's been going through it.
Speaker 1: She doesn't want to leave. We have family down in Florida.
Speaker 1: Why don't you talk to such and such? And I'm
Speaker 1: giving names to people I think would be a good
Speaker 1: fit at San Francisco that have some California ties, and
Speaker 1: about a you know, two or three days later, the
Speaker 1: search from calls me again and says, hey, we really
Speaker 1: want to talk to you. We really want to get involved.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm good. My wife is like she
Speaker 1: got steam coming out of her ears, like, no, we
Speaker 1: don't want to go to California. We don't want to
Speaker 1: go back. And then about the third time he said hey,
Speaker 1: the search from said, hey, we can get you in
Speaker 1: the top three. You'll have a legitimate job chance at
Speaker 1: the job, and just come out and check it out.
Speaker 1: And so I did. But here's the thing. It was
Speaker 1: really smart by them, it was really dumb by me.
Speaker 1: I interview, and I interview at a hotel in Berlin. Game.
Speaker 1: I don't even go on campus. I don't see the facility.
Speaker 1: I don't see the gym, I don't see the campus,
Speaker 1: none of it. It's just an interview, straight interview with
Speaker 1: their with their search committee. Do a good job. I know.
Speaker 1: Jim Bervelly and Jim Barelli gave me comfort. He had
Speaker 1: recruited me when I was in California playing high school basketball,
Speaker 1: so I had comfort with him. But I didn't know
Speaker 1: the job, right, I didn't know the job. But but
Speaker 1: I always say this. When I finished then interview, and
Speaker 1: I thought it went, well, you fly, You're flying out
Speaker 1: of San Francisco, and for whatever reason, this time, we
Speaker 1: didn't fly over the Bay, right. We flew over the city.
Speaker 1: And I remember the plane like turning and I'm looking down.
Speaker 1: I see Olympic Club and I see the Golden Gate
Speaker 1: Bridge and I see downtown and like, this is really beautiful.
Speaker 1: This is really cool. Like if they offering the job,
Speaker 1: I'll take it, you know. And I'm just saying this
Speaker 1: to myself fly back Um. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: issues with the administration at that time. When I took
Speaker 1: the job, the a D wasn't a favorite because you know,
Speaker 1: they went from Jesse Evans to Eddie Sutton to not
Speaker 1: having a coach and the way it was handled, a
Speaker 1: lot of the alums didn't like it. So the a
Speaker 1: D actually comes out and one of my former agents
Speaker 1: called me. Aaron Goodman called me like, hey, like, and
Speaker 1: he's like kind of recruiting me, And I'm like, is
Speaker 1: he recruiting me or does he want someone else to
Speaker 1: get it? You know, like I'm really confused with all
Speaker 1: this stuff. And I talked to the a D and
Speaker 1: and sure enough I talked to the vice president of
Speaker 1: the kind of the CEO of the school, and they
Speaker 1: want to offer me the job. And we start going
Speaker 1: through it and I didn't handle it great again, not
Speaker 1: prepared me an assistant coach for three years being a
Speaker 1: head coach for two years. There are questions I didn't ask.
Speaker 1: There's things I didn't really follow up. But it's it's
Speaker 1: your first, like big job for me. I thought it
Speaker 1: was a big job. West Coast Conference, Gonzaga St. Mary's.
Speaker 1: It's home, Like if they offered him. I'm gonna take it,
Speaker 1: but I don't ask the right questions. The norm situation
Speaker 1: wasn't great. It's funny when I was walking into the offices,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've been there, but like
Speaker 1: the old offices, they were painting the offices, so all
Speaker 1: the furnishment, all the offices were pushed in the middle
Speaker 1: of the room. So I couldn't even work in my office.
Speaker 1: When I walked on campus. Um, one of the offices
Speaker 1: was a former toilet, like one of my assistants had
Speaker 1: to work in a place where you still fall the
Speaker 1: stumps to the yurnal and you know, the toilet like
Speaker 1: one of my coaches had to work in there. So
Speaker 1: and then I'm just I'm walking to the press compass
Speaker 1: and my my oldest son now looks at me and
Speaker 1: he says, Dad, you really think this is a better
Speaker 1: job than f AU And I'm like, I think so,
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't really know if this is
Speaker 1: a good job. And Jeff Lender, who came with me
Speaker 1: because I was gonna hire an f A, you said,
Speaker 1: whatever you do, Rex, don't take it. I know Tommy Lloyd,
Speaker 1: I know the people of Gonzaga they're all telling me,
Speaker 1: don't do it. And again you talk about strength and weakness.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll figure out a way. Like I'll figure
Speaker 1: out a way. Let's lock in, let's recruit the right guys,
Speaker 1: let's we'll get after it. And so I end up
Speaker 1: accepting the job. I was there eight years. We had
Speaker 1: some good teams, had some competitive teams. When twenty games,
Speaker 1: you think about San Francisco and then and Todd, I
Speaker 1: think has done a good job. Kyle Smith did a
Speaker 1: good job, but they had won twenty games and thirty
Speaker 1: plus years before I got there. So I was really
Speaker 1: proud of those things. A lot of things again that
Speaker 1: I learned in the process, because again thirty four, thirty
Speaker 1: five years old, a lot of things to learn. And
Speaker 1: you know, you see a lot of these assistant coaches,
Speaker 1: like some of these guys that have paid their dues
Speaker 1: for ten fifteen years, that really learned about what it
Speaker 1: takes to be a head coach, I think they have
Speaker 1: a better chance of success. Has opposed a lot of these,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty and I'm not saying all of them,
Speaker 1: but twenty thirty that that haven't been through the process. Well,
Speaker 1: I hadn't been through the process to not know what
Speaker 1: I didn't know. So but it was a great experience.
Speaker 1: Crede eight years. My family loved living there. We got
Speaker 1: to in I T one year, we wanted the postseason twice.
Speaker 1: Had some really good good players, good good guys um
Speaker 1: and we're just, you know, just on the cusp of
Speaker 1: getting to a West Coast Conference finals and having a
Speaker 1: chance to get to Nancy a tournament. How are you
Speaker 1: different as a coach at the end as opposed to
Speaker 1: start you talking about learning stuff and like what how
Speaker 1: did you evolve as a coach? So as a young
Speaker 1: coach especially, you know when you when you're your mentors
Speaker 1: are the people you look up to. You know, Coach
Speaker 1: Willams is a very hard driven coach. Do what I
Speaker 1: ask you to do, right, do what I ask you
Speaker 1: to do well. At Kansas you've got players they're gonna
Speaker 1: do what you ask them to do well. Maybe not
Speaker 1: necessarily going to be the case at USF. You know
Speaker 1: they're not gonna necessarily do And so Coach wayams with
Speaker 1: digest heels and when we were messing up right and
Speaker 1: we could take it like our players, you know, the
Speaker 1: players like Donna's Jordan, they could take it well these
Speaker 1: other guys because it's not quite the same level play.
Speaker 1: And I had good players, don't get me wrong him.
Speaker 1: So I was a hard driving coach. We would run
Speaker 1: and we would run gut checks and and guys would
Speaker 1: just drop off. And then you get a reputation as
Speaker 1: being like too hard, too driven, too much, you know,
Speaker 1: And so those things at the beginning of my career
Speaker 1: carried over into years you know, six, seven and eight. Right,
Speaker 1: So he's gonna push you really, really hard. He's gonna
Speaker 1: tell you the truth. And our guys, you know, we
Speaker 1: we had a little bit of a transfer problem. We
Speaker 1: had twentysoone guys leave and every year we got good,
Speaker 1: we would lose a really good player and then we
Speaker 1: take a step back. And so you have to always
Speaker 1: be able to tell the truth to a player. You
Speaker 1: gotta tell the way he can handle it. Well. I
Speaker 1: was a player coach. Williams would tell me, you know,
Speaker 1: I've never had a player more selfish in my twenties
Speaker 1: seven years of coaching. If I said that to one
Speaker 1: of my kids, that would be a really hard thing
Speaker 1: that they especially today's they with social media, they might
Speaker 1: not be able to handle that. Okay, so is this
Speaker 1: this is this is a great part of the discussion. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Eddy Saith was the same way, right like he
Speaker 1: told my boy until my boy Mike, I won't leave
Speaker 1: his name out. Everybody who played we played with us.
Speaker 1: It might transferred, and but his last and he was
Speaker 1: a four point student, but he couldn't remember secondary break
Speaker 1: Like my you're the dumbest smart kid we've ever had,
Speaker 1: right And I mean like he would just tell you,
Speaker 1: he would, he would just say it like it is like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, don't you ever save that shot when you're
Speaker 1: playing in Cyprus next year? Right like he would just
Speaker 1: kill you. So is it these the players today? Is
Speaker 1: it kids today? Was it specifically the ones that you
Speaker 1: had felt like you had to recruit at that level?
Speaker 1: Because I do think that there are some you know,
Speaker 1: like there are places in which though some of the
Speaker 1: tone and some of the wording is different, the feelings
Speaker 1: are still the same. Why do you think that you
Speaker 1: don't have the same type of coaching we had that
Speaker 1: we that we I mean, like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I I think I enjoyed it. I like, like I
Speaker 1: just I don't know, I don't know what I like
Speaker 1: I played for John with Cloud and he never called
Speaker 1: anybody out. It was it was because you came from
Speaker 1: an NBA thing, Like you know, you keep calling, you
Speaker 1: calling the office, you have to set up an appointment.
Speaker 1: You go to the office. You'd sit down, he was
Speaker 1: incredibly nice. You'd offer you somebody drink, somebody eat, throw
Speaker 1: on the film. And then you get onto you, like
Speaker 1: a coach said, and like you A'm waiting for any
Speaker 1: film like you you you guys are embarrassing, embarrassing, you
Speaker 1: don't run the steps. I don't know how many that Like.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed, you know, the being called out. I enjoyed
Speaker 1: really being pushed. But I also like, you came from
Speaker 1: a dad who's a military guy. I came from a
Speaker 1: dad who's a basketball guy. Like that's how we were raised. Again,
Speaker 1: is it this era of player? Is it a societal thing?
Speaker 1: Is it specific to the player that you had to recruit?
Speaker 1: Uh at at at San Francisco. That's some great questions.
Speaker 1: I had Some guys I could I could say pretty
Speaker 1: much anything to him, like Tim Dirkson, Angelo Clario, two
Speaker 1: guys that are still playing professional basketball to this day.
Speaker 1: Like I could be really hard on I made Angelo Clario,
Speaker 1: which makes no sense. He wouldn't shoot the basketball in
Speaker 1: a game or blowing out a non division one. And
Speaker 1: we had a rule like if you miss a layup
Speaker 1: in in a in a certain drill, you had to
Speaker 1: go up in the stands and touch the Bill Russell's sign. Well,
Speaker 1: he wasn't shooting, so I said go run up during
Speaker 1: the game, and he did it, you know, and and
Speaker 1: so I could. I could get on him in the game.
Speaker 1: I had him run up like and it's funny. It's
Speaker 1: it's crazy because I told him, you didn't do it
Speaker 1: hard enough. Do it again, So it's funny. The kids
Speaker 1: a great kid. He's like literally giving my kids high
Speaker 1: fives as he's going down the steps. But I could
Speaker 1: get on him like that and he was fine with it.
Speaker 1: And other kids if I got online that they couldn't
Speaker 1: handle it. I think some of it is society. I
Speaker 1: think that you have major transfer issue, not just in college,
Speaker 1: in high school and in a au like if it's
Speaker 1: not working, and I'll tell this story, my wife won't
Speaker 1: like it. Like so I'm sitting there and I'm watching
Speaker 1: I'm at another game, and my wife texted me she
Speaker 1: like Gunner is my son, Gunner is acting like a
Speaker 1: crazy person, is really competitive, right, and the coach not
Speaker 1: saying anything to him. So I text her back and said, hey,
Speaker 1: let the coach handle it. Will deal with it later.
Speaker 1: Five minutes later, and I love my wife. She's mama
Speaker 1: bear right. She texts me like, the coach just bench Gunner.
Speaker 1: We gotta get him off this team. So I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not the way it works. And my wife, she's
Speaker 1: the best wife in the world. But that's that's what
Speaker 1: we're dealing with now as a society. Parents, if it's
Speaker 1: not working the way they wanted to work, let's just
Speaker 1: find the other thing. So when that happens, there's not
Speaker 1: there's not the ability to handle accountability. Why it's this,
Speaker 1: it's this is great. Um. I was just talking to
Speaker 1: I just I was just talking to a football coach
Speaker 1: and we were talking about, like on social media, when
Speaker 1: coaches push back on transfer portal, you know, they're seen
Speaker 1: as these hypocrites because they take different jobs. The reality
Speaker 1: of it is that you're comparing the coach leaving and
Speaker 1: a player leaving. Is complete is at night and day, right,
Speaker 1: Like anybody with any sort of brains understands this. But
Speaker 1: but to the to the brain dead that are on
Speaker 1: social media, it's MPO critical. The biggest issue is how
Speaker 1: do you coach kids right? How do you how do
Speaker 1: you coach them right? Okay, so we have to be
Speaker 1: careful about our language. If you bench them, I'm gonna leave.
Speaker 1: They're just they're gonna leave. But you can't keep throwing
Speaker 1: them out there. How do you? How do you? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't really understand how would work? And and look,
Speaker 1: leaving has always been the threat that a player has, right,
Speaker 1: it always has been. And it was one of the
Speaker 1: things that coach Sutton used to say he loved about
Speaker 1: recruiting transfers. Is nobody transfers twice. Now people transferred to
Speaker 1: and three times you you go ahead, leave, nobody transfers twice.
Speaker 1: You go back to some n A A school and
Speaker 1: go try that crap in California. Right, That's how he
Speaker 1: used to But now it's like like if I said
Speaker 1: a guy, he's gonna leave, like and there's no repercussions
Speaker 1: for leaving if you can transfer and play right away.
Speaker 1: Um So, and here's the part that I really struggle
Speaker 1: with most of us, not all of us, most of
Speaker 1: us who played or even you live, Like the things
Speaker 1: that you look back on with the you take the
Speaker 1: most pride in were the things that you had to
Speaker 1: overcome right that it wasn't you know. It's like for
Speaker 1: you like when you you you get somewhere and you
Speaker 1: get to north West, you get to Kansas and I
Speaker 1: don't know, like you're from Northwestern, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this guy and by the time you leave Kansas, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's a dude. Like you earned everything you got against
Speaker 1: you earned everything you got Northwestern. But we we have,
Speaker 1: we have. It's not the kids, the parents. I don't
Speaker 1: understand what the pushback is on earning things and going
Speaker 1: through some tough times in order to see the really
Speaker 1: good types. Well, I think I think it's it's a
Speaker 1: it's a major problem, to be honest with you. And
Speaker 1: what I'll say is this is with n I l
Speaker 1: with social media, with with the instant transfer rule. Now,
Speaker 1: like if you watch a lot of college basketball, you
Speaker 1: call a lot of games I watched every day I
Speaker 1: sit here and I watched college games. Sometimes they'll turn
Speaker 1: it off after about five minutes, like I can't watch this,
Speaker 1: Like there's no account of Guys are shooting bad shots,
Speaker 1: Guys are turning the ball over, Guys are just hugging
Speaker 1: up against their man, like this is bad basketball. This guy,
Speaker 1: this coach could be in some trouble here if he
Speaker 1: doesn't get it right. So it's a it's an unbelievable challenge.
Speaker 1: I'll say this when I watched Is though I went
Speaker 1: to Michigan State, is a wholesome, accountable and he recruits
Speaker 1: a certain type of kid, and he can do that
Speaker 1: at Michigan State. But he's not getting all the guys
Speaker 1: that he wants in terms of He's not like coach
Speaker 1: k when you recruit ten guys. You know. So he's
Speaker 1: really smart about Okay, I'm gonna recruit the kid. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get to know the parents. I'm gonna really figure
Speaker 1: out how this kid ticks and can he handle the
Speaker 1: way that I coach. I watched Greg Campy, same things.
Speaker 1: He's very not abrupt, but very honest, tells it like
Speaker 1: it is right. He has some good years, has some
Speaker 1: bad years, right, but you know what you're gonna get
Speaker 1: with those teams. I think as a coach now, the
Speaker 1: challenges is you've got to be really good with your
Speaker 1: delivery about how you're gonna present things and how you're
Speaker 1: gonna help get guys get better, how you're gonna spend
Speaker 1: time with them. And you have to spend time with them,
Speaker 1: and they still may leave you right, but your ultimate
Speaker 1: end go Because here's the thing now, every college coach
Speaker 1: now is an NBA coach with not NBA players and
Speaker 1: so and actuality. NBA teams have more power and they're
Speaker 1: still giving in to the player than college teams do.
Speaker 1: Because us, if you're on the contract with the NBA team,
Speaker 1: it's much harder for you to get out in college
Speaker 1: now it's the wild wild West. It's nuts like a
Speaker 1: kid could leave at the drop of a hat. So
Speaker 1: we're up against some really, really difficult things now. But
Speaker 1: you've got to be a great, great teacher. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what really helped me and it's probably why
Speaker 1: I still want to do it. You gotta be a
Speaker 1: great I work for stand band Gunn. He's one of
Speaker 1: the best teacher. When people say he's too hard, our
Speaker 1: players are like, shoot arounds might be too hard. That
Speaker 1: was the thing that they were saying. He's an unbelievable teacher.
Speaker 1: And it's more about watching the film, understanding it getting
Speaker 1: buying from the player to have success. Now they may
Speaker 1: not always like him, but they know exactly what he's
Speaker 1: trying to do is trying to get you better. And
Speaker 1: if you don't want to get better, this isn't the
Speaker 1: right place for you. We got to find another place.
Speaker 1: So but you've gotta be really, really smart in the
Speaker 1: recruiting process about who you're recruiting, who he's listening to,
Speaker 1: because now it's not like back in the day. You
Speaker 1: probably had your father, maybe a brother, like I had
Speaker 1: my father and that was it. Maybe talk to my
Speaker 1: AU coach who was a pretty smart guy. But now
Speaker 1: these kids got fifteen people that they're listening to, and
Speaker 1: on top of that, they're looking to trying to get
Speaker 1: their likes up on their Instagram and their Twitter. So
Speaker 1: it's it's full on crazy. What's that like? I'll tell
Speaker 1: you how I got fired in San Francisco, so I
Speaker 1: always tell the story. So we're driving, I mean and
Speaker 1: my wife are driving down the street getting ready to
Speaker 1: get some burritos on Geary Street and Scott Sibill calls
Speaker 1: me and we we went fifteen and fifteen that year,
Speaker 1: like we played Sound as a State in an exhibition
Speaker 1: or scrimmage. We got throttled by thirty and I looked
Speaker 1: at her after that first scrimmage, I'm like, we might
Speaker 1: not win three games this year, Like we're bad. Like
Speaker 1: Tim Dirkson was a tough kid, was a senior playing.
Speaker 1: He was a six three power forward for US, played
Speaker 1: his butt off. We had Devin Watson is a sophomore,
Speaker 1: good player. He was a sophomore at the time, and
Speaker 1: then it was all a bunch of freshmen and guys
Speaker 1: that didn't played. We lost everybody from the year before
Speaker 1: except those two guys. I was like, we might not
Speaker 1: win two games. We went fifteen and fifteen that year,
Speaker 1: and I look at my wife and I said, Scott
Speaker 1: just called me. I think I'm gonna get an extension,
Speaker 1: Like I coached my butt off this year. We had
Speaker 1: a really good year considering and she just looked at
Speaker 1: Me's like, no, you're getting fired. And I'm like what.
Speaker 1: She's like, Yeah, it's it's it's time. You've been there
Speaker 1: eight years. We've had some ups, we've had some downst
Speaker 1: some good years, had some tough years. Just like just
Speaker 1: like I just don't I don't feel good about this.
Speaker 1: So I walked into his office. Uh, it's eight o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning. So I called him and said, I
Speaker 1: want to flight at ten thirty. I'm gonna go see
Speaker 1: my daughter playing in Vegas. She was playing at Bakersfield.
Speaker 1: And he's like, fine, this won't take but a second.
Speaker 1: He just he just looked at me and said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a change. And I said okay. And
Speaker 1: I was like, everything go with the buyout. That's all.
Speaker 1: I said, everything go with the buyout. And he's like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: well we'll figure out. Was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Is everything good with the buyout? And he's like, h
Speaker 1: we'll figured out, Rex, don't worry about it. And I
Speaker 1: walked out of the office. I texted my steps, said hey,
Speaker 1: please come in the office, and they came in the office.
Speaker 1: I said, please text all the players. Let's get them
Speaker 1: down the locker room. I sent a tweet. I said, hey,
Speaker 1: it's been a great eight years. I really appreciate you know,
Speaker 1: the players, the coaches. The opportunity went down talk to
Speaker 1: the players. One of my assistants, who I think I
Speaker 1: don't totally trust. I thought he knew what was going on,
Speaker 1: acted surprised, and I just said, hey, I'm really sorry, guys,
Speaker 1: this is not gonna work out. Let me know what
Speaker 1: I can do to help you. Um, I'm gonna flight
Speaker 1: to Vegas. Get on the flight to Vegas. You know,
Speaker 1: hand out, how did you get fired? You get cut?
Speaker 1: You get all these text messages and land. Once I
Speaker 1: landed in Vegas, I got a whole bunch of tech.
Speaker 1: Stan Van Gundy, who's an unbelievable person, text me and says, hey,
Speaker 1: come out to Detroit, can watch his play, hang out,
Speaker 1: get out of San Francisco. And that's what I did.
Speaker 1: I went to Detroit for about three or four days,
Speaker 1: state at his house, went to Carolina for two days
Speaker 1: to see coach Williams. Flew act San Francisco. We started
Speaker 1: packing up and I went back to our home in
Speaker 1: bok rautun So, what what Coach Williams say? He said,
Speaker 1: it's funny, It's he was great, you know he he said,
Speaker 1: you know what you're gonna do? How can I help?
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, Coach, I still like to
Speaker 1: coach again. He's like it's he's like, he's like, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's funny, Rex. Because when I was coming up.
Speaker 1: Coach Smith could make a call and he can open
Speaker 1: up a door for you. He's like, and when I
Speaker 1: first started, I could kind of do that as well.
Speaker 1: He's like, it's changed so much since then. Now they
Speaker 1: got these search firms, Like I'll help you all I can.
Speaker 1: He's like, I just don't know how much I can.
Speaker 1: And so I said that Coach, I don't expect a miracle,
Speaker 1: you know, but I appreciate you, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: come down and watch it by his practice. And that
Speaker 1: was really pretty much the conversation. But I got fortunate.
Speaker 1: I got the I got the G League job. Stand
Speaker 1: offer me a job to coach and the G League,
Speaker 1: which I loved, uh and it made me a better coach,
Speaker 1: a better teacher. You can't and screaming at pro players
Speaker 1: like you can't do it, but you can still get
Speaker 1: your point across. If you're teaching is good, if your
Speaker 1: video is good, if you know how to break things down.
Speaker 1: So learned a lot from that experience and then got
Speaker 1: called up with the Pistons. As a guy who hasn't
Speaker 1: lost is kind of never didn't lose your confidence really,
Speaker 1: maybe until you went to Spain as a player as
Speaker 1: a coach, it's much kind of the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like you're driving the car and you're like,
Speaker 1: in fifteen fifteen with that squad, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: I should get the you know, coach of the freaking year, right,
Speaker 1: because now the the other side to it is like, hey,
Speaker 1: eight years, those are your guys, that's who you recruited, right,
Speaker 1: So that's that if you want to take the negative
Speaker 1: to it. But inside, in your in your gut, when
Speaker 1: you get fired into a whirlwin you're doing all these things,
Speaker 1: do you question yourself? Well, you have to. I mean
Speaker 1: you have to look at yourself and figure out what
Speaker 1: you could have done better. And I think the things
Speaker 1: that I looked at were number one is as a
Speaker 1: leader of a program, right, as the as the guy
Speaker 1: that everyone's looking to, you have to be in control
Speaker 1: a lot more of yourself first and then everything else.
Speaker 1: If you watch me on the sidelines, I'd get on refs,
Speaker 1: I'd get on my players like you have to be
Speaker 1: you're the head of the chicken, kind of like a
Speaker 1: point guard. You're a great point guard. You've got to
Speaker 1: be under control. If you're wild and crazy at times,
Speaker 1: your team is probably gonna be well and crazy, and
Speaker 1: our teams were. Our teams were highly competitive, like tough, physical,
Speaker 1: like god after it. But to get the most out
Speaker 1: of your team, you gotta also have a certain amounticum
Speaker 1: of control and how you deliver your messages, how you
Speaker 1: get your point across to your team's, how you build
Speaker 1: a culture in terms of Yeah, I mean people always
Speaker 1: talk about culture. I said, the best thing for cultures
Speaker 1: get a great player. That's about all the right things.
Speaker 1: You're gonna your culture is gonna be really good. But
Speaker 1: as the head coach, you also have to set the
Speaker 1: tone in terms of who you're bringing into your program
Speaker 1: and how you're gonna coach them. So those are things
Speaker 1: I really looked at when I talked about myself how
Speaker 1: we would do things from a culture stand point. In
Speaker 1: terms of building guys up and not just breaking guys down.
Speaker 1: This isn't the seventies, eighties and even the early nineties
Speaker 1: where you can get on guys like that. You've got
Speaker 1: to be really good in your teaching, you've gotta be
Speaker 1: really good in your delivery, and you've got to be
Speaker 1: able to break guys down, but build guys up. Even
Speaker 1: at a higher level. I think um. Working for Standard,
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 1: I think that made me a lot better. We weren't
Speaker 1: very good in our defensive teams weren't very good. Our
Speaker 1: teams weren't very good defensively. I got better in those areas.
Speaker 1: But I think the biggest thing was and I even
Speaker 1: asked assistance and say, hey, you're not working for me, now,
Speaker 1: you know what do I need? What? What could I
Speaker 1: have done better? What? What did you struggle with? Because
Speaker 1: we had turned up with coaches too. Quite honestly, we
Speaker 1: had guys and sam Sis was a hard place to
Speaker 1: be an assistant coach because real estate is really expensive.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're gonna buy a house, You're not
Speaker 1: making a lot of money all those things. But you know,
Speaker 1: I talked to coaches that I really respect and trusted
Speaker 1: about that as well, because you have to look at
Speaker 1: yourself and figure out how you're gonna be able to
Speaker 1: do it better if you get another What they say, well,
Speaker 1: they said some of the same things I just told you,
Speaker 1: you know, like like you know, at times, your delivery
Speaker 1: of things, guys that you recruited couldn't take it. Um,
Speaker 1: your expectations. There's nothing wrong with having those expectations, but
Speaker 1: you've got to be able to get us to believe
Speaker 1: that we can do it, as opposed to like when
Speaker 1: I grew up as a player, someone said, hey, you
Speaker 1: can't shoot three and said, oh yes, I can't. Let
Speaker 1: me show you. Well, you know, some kids nowadays and
Speaker 1: even some coaches say, hey, how in the hell did
Speaker 1: we come up with this? And this kind of important?
Speaker 1: This isn't gonna work. This is kind of stuff to
Speaker 1: get you fired. Right. Well, you can say that to me,
Speaker 1: but you can't say that to coach because he's thinking
Speaker 1: about just getting fired, as opposed to, Hey, this is
Speaker 1: where we gotta get better. You know, we gotta know
Speaker 1: the pick and roll coverage is coming out of a
Speaker 1: time on how it could change, and that's gonna give
Speaker 1: us a chance to be successful. I said, just those
Speaker 1: two different deliveries, like you're not gonna kill somebody or
Speaker 1: across somebody as a coach or a player if you
Speaker 1: deliver it that way. And that's the way that I
Speaker 1: grew up. I grew up with the way, Hey, you're
Speaker 1: the most selfish player I've had in twenty seven years
Speaker 1: of coaching, Hey, you don't play defense, You're never gonna
Speaker 1: play here. That's what I grew up on. But that's
Speaker 1: not what I had. I had. I had a weekend.
Speaker 1: I have like a you program, So I had a
Speaker 1: weekend and my son is, uh, doesn't I have an
Speaker 1: older team? There's they were like, thirteen is gonna be
Speaker 1: four teams? Ever, my son wasn't on the team. He
Speaker 1: was at summer camp and so I'm coaching party was
Speaker 1: I was ticked because, like, what am I doing coaching
Speaker 1: this team? Like you said, not my kid? And I like,
Speaker 1: and I like, I've had some of these kids three
Speaker 1: or four years, but we sprinkled in a couple of
Speaker 1: other really talented kids, and I just I didn't There
Speaker 1: was one kid in particular who was really selfish and
Speaker 1: the dad was a problem. But I actually called the
Speaker 1: kids in and I and there's three of them that
Speaker 1: were really talented guys. The most selfish motherfucker's everywhere those
Speaker 1: jerseys and you're thirteen years old and like you're you're
Speaker 1: you're looking at me, but you're not actually listening to me,
Speaker 1: you know, passing like you should watch this. This is
Speaker 1: embarrassing to watch. You're just so selfish, just past the ball,
Speaker 1: and you'd actually beat a team that you're better than,
Speaker 1: but trying to do it by yourself, you're losing to
Speaker 1: a team that they're playing together and you're not right.
Speaker 1: And so you know, like the next week, I texted
Speaker 1: one of the dads like, Hey, it's such and such coming.
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, I can't believe you called my
Speaker 1: son a selfish motherfucker. And I was like, well, he
Speaker 1: was like, it's not doesn't mean that's who he is,
Speaker 1: that's who he's playing. Like it's like, really, yeah, we
Speaker 1: just it's not how we wanted to. I was like, okay, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: like somebody's gonna because somebody's gonna say that you at
Speaker 1: some point in your life. And you know, um so
Speaker 1: I get it. I mean I think there's you have
Speaker 1: to you have to get the right kids, which you
Speaker 1: have to also evolve in it just times and just
Speaker 1: anguage wise or whatever. Um oh, Actually I think I
Speaker 1: always think it's funny because like, if you sit in
Speaker 1: the locker room and guys talk to one another, this
Speaker 1: is the language of the masses, right, this is how
Speaker 1: we talked to one another in basketball, And yet what
Speaker 1: a coach used the same language like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's old school coach, Like that's really it's really not.
Speaker 1: Well if you listen to just if you listen to.
Speaker 1: Sometimes my Sun will put on some music and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. Are you kidding me? Listen? Listen, this is
Speaker 1: this is a great point, okay, because you and I
Speaker 1: are not we're not something like you know, we're not
Speaker 1: listening to waltz music whatever. Like I grew up with
Speaker 1: the rapid hip hop. I think it's worse now, and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why because no one because in order
Speaker 1: to be successful, you don't need a radio version. Right. Literally,
Speaker 1: every song you download for your kid is has the
Speaker 1: E next to it. Now you can search and search
Speaker 1: and search for the clean version, but it's it's a lot.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's worse and I'm not
Speaker 1: and I don't. I think it's worse. I think the
Speaker 1: language in in rapping hip hop is way worse. And
Speaker 1: it's because everything is downloaded digitally, so you don't need
Speaker 1: radio airplays in order to get attention. Well, I was
Speaker 1: driving home. My son had a game yesterday. I'm driving
Speaker 1: home and I had one song, Uh, bounced to the
Speaker 1: ounce good song like it's got a good like it's
Speaker 1: a good song, right, Um. And then the next song
Speaker 1: comes on and I'm like, oh jeez, explicit. And then
Speaker 1: I go to the next Oh geez, explicit like I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like pace. Every one of these
Speaker 1: songs is explicit, like you're lucky. I mean, you're you're
Speaker 1: you're better not because I can't find It's tough for
Speaker 1: me to find the clean version nowadays because put it
Speaker 1: out explicit, the kids won't listen to it, right. So yeah,
Speaker 1: when these kids say, oh, you know you talk to
Speaker 1: me too harsh? Yeah, I love that way. Yeah, my son,
Speaker 1: I did my son to a barbershop and and he
Speaker 1: was like in the barbershop and they're like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: turnout the music. You got a little kids in here.
Speaker 1: He's twelve. My sons like, yeah, I have this song
Speaker 1: on my phone. We're good like you? I mean, what
Speaker 1: am I gonna do? Um? Sam? How did how did
Speaker 1: you live in San Francisco? Like you made a good
Speaker 1: amount of money as head coach, but at San Francisco
Speaker 1: did you buy? Like what did you did? They give
Speaker 1: you an interest free loan? Like how did it work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we lost money. My eight years in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: we didn't make money. I'll just put it that way.
Speaker 1: Like we we lived there because like we love San Francisco,
Speaker 1: we love being in California. My mother was going through
Speaker 1: things medically, so I wanted to be closer. She lived
Speaker 1: in Vegas. We had a sixty forty shared appreciation loan
Speaker 1: at San Francisco, and that's how they made it work.
Speaker 1: So we owned they owned forty. And then the biggest
Speaker 1: stress of that was when we got let go. I
Speaker 1: had to sell the house in sixty days, which ended
Speaker 1: up not being a problem. We actually made some money
Speaker 1: off the house and we lived ten minutes from campus.
Speaker 1: I walked to work every day. Um, so yeah, that
Speaker 1: worked out fine. But that's how you make it work conception.
Speaker 1: The biggest thing for me was my assistance. Like, if
Speaker 1: you ever talked to Sundance Works, let him tell you
Speaker 1: the story about where he was living. You know he's
Speaker 1: now at Wyoming with Jeff Lender talked to Will Martin,
Speaker 1: who's a head coach at Missouri Western, and where he
Speaker 1: was living. I think there were roommates at the time.
Speaker 1: So to me, I had a lot of assistants live
Speaker 1: in my house. Michael Lee lived in my house for
Speaker 1: a while, Brent Cruz lived in my house for a while.
Speaker 1: Wyndale Raeford lived in my house for a while. So
Speaker 1: you had to figure out how to make it work.
Speaker 1: At first, when I got there, we had apartments, like
Speaker 1: one apartment. Jeff Lender lived in one, which you know
Speaker 1: was a whole different another story, because you know, he
Speaker 1: walks his wife's walking on campus one day and there's
Speaker 1: a dead body, you know, on the campus, and she's
Speaker 1: walking her two kids. But you know, we we we
Speaker 1: experienced a lot of interesting things when I was at Sancisco,
Speaker 1: but housing was always a big issue. One thing I'll
Speaker 1: say about Samcy, I'm sure they've done a better job
Speaker 1: in that area. I know Scott even though he fired
Speaker 1: me and I needed to probably needed to be fired.
Speaker 1: And I think my wife is right, I needed to
Speaker 1: figure out some things to become a better coach. But
Speaker 1: the schedule has gotten a lot better. I mean, Todd
Speaker 1: has done a good job. I kind of watched from afar,
Speaker 1: but I think they've left home maybe twice. Those things
Speaker 1: make a difference, you know, And and and so the
Speaker 1: office is my last year of office has got redone,
Speaker 1: which is really nice. They've redone. They're they're they're redoing
Speaker 1: everything there, which is like, you know, thirty years forty
Speaker 1: years uh after they should have know. And I mean
Speaker 1: they're they're even I've talked to they're even honest about it.
Speaker 1: I Matt played. It's funny. I've played in the Golden
Speaker 1: State Tournament in some tournam or whatever. We played San
Speaker 1: Francisco was in sixth grade. We wanted and I was like,
Speaker 1: that place is a dungeon. That was my only I've
Speaker 1: been there like once. I was like, that place, it's
Speaker 1: the worst I've ever like, it was like the land
Speaker 1: that time forgot, Like yeah, you could actually see you
Speaker 1: can actually feel like Bill Russell and Casey Jones played here,
Speaker 1: because it feels like Bill Russell and Casey Jones just
Speaker 1: played here. Right, That's how dingy it was. And the
Speaker 1: they're playing home games is People always said this about
Speaker 1: Kent State in the mat right, why was Kent State
Speaker 1: forever the best program in the map, Like because they
Speaker 1: bought more games than everybody else, you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was really that That's why they won twenty games.
Speaker 1: You buy two more wins than everybody else, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna win twenty games more more more often. Um, it
Speaker 1: is about it is about investment. Um okay, So you
Speaker 1: go coaching the G League. How different is it? You
Speaker 1: mentioned how you get onto players, but in terms of
Speaker 1: schematic like I went to a Miles Simon's my best
Speaker 1: friend in basketball. We played together since fifth grade and
Speaker 1: I watched him coach one. He's awesome. But to like
Speaker 1: second shot clock, you're basically you. They got to get
Speaker 1: into it and then they you just kind of gotta
Speaker 1: let them play and give them a framework. And then
Speaker 1: every once in a while, you know, when they're not
Speaker 1: playing well, you call a set or you call an io,
Speaker 1: you know, and then you do your magic really after
Speaker 1: your time outs or on dead balls. What was that
Speaker 1: like for you to go from you're coaching in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: You have a system, you have eight guys, recruit them too.
Speaker 1: Now you've got the turnstyle thing in the G League
Speaker 1: where guys are getting called up, getting cut and it's
Speaker 1: harder to coach because you have to just let them
Speaker 1: play with the twenty four second shot. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: gotta you have to control what you can control and
Speaker 1: there's certain things you can control. You can control in
Speaker 1: terms of transition defense, and that being an emphasis of
Speaker 1: we're gonna eliminate the ram, we're gonna protect the paint,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna close out and you gotta you are,
Speaker 1: which you emphasize. So that was a big thing that
Speaker 1: we really worked on and tried to emphasize working on closeouts.
Speaker 1: I think you're right about letting them play, but you've
Speaker 1: got to give them a framework, and you talked about
Speaker 1: that a framework of Hey, this is how we're gonna
Speaker 1: play the game. These are the actions that we're looking for.
Speaker 1: This is the spacing that we want. Here are the
Speaker 1: cutting actions. Here are the screening actions that we want.
Speaker 1: I think a t O s are really really important
Speaker 1: in that league because you're always looking to get momentum.
Speaker 1: So after if you're in the time out really trying
Speaker 1: to diagram something, you're gonna get a quality look too. Again,
Speaker 1: give guys confidence, give guys, get guys quality looks. When
Speaker 1: if you get Jordan Crawford, who was a great player
Speaker 1: at Xavier, if you get him open look, it's going
Speaker 1: in like it's you can do that San Francisco. It
Speaker 1: might be an airball, like you don't know what's gonna
Speaker 1: happen with that. That's interest in professional basketball in college past.
Speaker 1: You get a guy, guys open, it's gonna make yeah,
Speaker 1: no question. So you know, those are things you've gotta
Speaker 1: be really good. You've gotta be good in your A
Speaker 1: T O s, You've got to be good in your
Speaker 1: pick and roll coverage, calls, your your timing in terms
Speaker 1: of how much time you have to teach and coach,
Speaker 1: you gotta be really good because you're gonna get about
Speaker 1: forty five minutes to an hour in terms of practice
Speaker 1: because you're playing so many games, right, and then your
Speaker 1: film work has to be really really good both individually.
Speaker 1: We had each coach had about four players, which I
Speaker 1: think I would I would work in college to a
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, but also your delivery in terms
Speaker 1: of film that you use to show your team. So
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing. The biggest thing that I
Speaker 1: learned is just the use of time. You've got to
Speaker 1: really really be good with your use of time of
Speaker 1: what you're showing them, what you're gonna teach, how you're
Speaker 1: gonna gain momentum right, and things that you can control
Speaker 1: in terms of what you can take away as a
Speaker 1: defensive coach. So that's why you know, I watched I
Speaker 1: watched a lot of NBA basketball because you can still
Speaker 1: learn so many things and just how guys play the game,
Speaker 1: the things that they emphasize, the things that they're gonna
Speaker 1: take away. And you know, it also helps when you
Speaker 1: have good players. I mean that, there's no question your
Speaker 1: success is always going to be determined by the level
Speaker 1: of talents and buying that you have from your guys. Okay,
Speaker 1: so now what's next for you? Like, you've done seven
Speaker 1: years as an NBA player, You've played at the very
Speaker 1: highest level of college basketball. You've been a head coach
Speaker 1: for ten years, decade of head coaching success in college basketball.
Speaker 1: You're connected with the Carolina family, have done the NBA
Speaker 1: assistant thing as well. So you have, like you checked,
Speaker 1: check the check the box boxes of all this different stuff.
Speaker 1: But you have, you know, thirty more years to do
Speaker 1: what you want to do. What do you want to do? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know? Right now, I'm calling games for Oakland University,
Speaker 1: so I go both there on the men's and women's side.
Speaker 1: I've got a few games I'm gonna call on radio,
Speaker 1: which which I'm looking forward to to do that. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to work on some of the media things on
Speaker 1: that side, but also keep my eye out as you
Speaker 1: get to March and you hate to see guys lose jobs,
Speaker 1: and you know because I've been there and I know
Speaker 1: what that's like. But if the right opportunity comes up,
Speaker 1: I'd like to do that again. I think I have
Speaker 1: things that I want to show that I can still
Speaker 1: do uh and do better than I did the first
Speaker 1: time as a I would like to think a guy
Speaker 1: at fifty one is gonna be a heck of a
Speaker 1: lot better coach and have learned an awful lot than
Speaker 1: he went in his thirty four thirty five, So that's
Speaker 1: a possibility. We really love living in Michigan. I get
Speaker 1: to see all of my son's games, which is the
Speaker 1: first time I've seen. I have a senior in high
Speaker 1: school right now. I think I've seen a total of
Speaker 1: eight of his high school games, and two of them
Speaker 1: have been in the last you know, two weeks, So
Speaker 1: that's been fun for me. My middle schooler, I've got
Speaker 1: to see all of his games. I really didn't get
Speaker 1: to see him play, so that's fun. I'm blessed and
Speaker 1: fortunate we've done well financially, but I do think the
Speaker 1: game still calls me and I would be interested at
Speaker 1: the right opportunity came up. And if not, I do like,
Speaker 1: you know, watching good commentators guys that I can listen to.
Speaker 1: I listened to your podcast with Doctors, which was Alaric.
Speaker 1: You guys were very funny and very direct in some
Speaker 1: of your beliefs, which I thought was really funny. But
Speaker 1: I enjoyed calling games as well, so that might be
Speaker 1: something if I can get my foot into some different doors.
Speaker 1: How did your Your oldest one is is ACR younger
Speaker 1: one is Gunner. Gunner is the senior Ace is the
Speaker 1: seventh creator. Okay, how good Gunner? Gunners good? He's a
Speaker 1: good player. He had he had seventeen and eight the
Speaker 1: other night, you know, points and assists. They've got a
Speaker 1: nice team there two and oh right now. This is
Speaker 1: his fourth high school though. That's a tough thing for him,
Speaker 1: is recruitment. He's got some schools that are looking at him,
Speaker 1: which is nice. He wants to play at some level. Um,
Speaker 1: he's a good player. He's he's he's fun to watch
Speaker 1: and and aces really because of his older brother I
Speaker 1: think that's really helped him, you know, really fall in
Speaker 1: love with the game. So it's been fun to watch
Speaker 1: both of them play. So is he a Division one
Speaker 1: player hen a Division one player? I think he's definitely.
Speaker 1: I think he can definitely play Division one basketball and
Speaker 1: be a good player. I compare him to guys that
Speaker 1: I had. You know, he reminds me of Frankie Ferrari,
Speaker 1: who transferred from ME. I recruit him as a freshman,
Speaker 1: end up being All West Coast Conference player man Frankie. Uh,
Speaker 1: Frankie thought he should play a lot as a freshman sophomore,
Speaker 1: he wasn't quite ready, but when he was a junior senior,
Speaker 1: he was a heck of a player. Um Cody Doling's
Speaker 1: the guy that lets me is wet. He reminds me
Speaker 1: a little bit of Cody um Cody left his senior year,
Speaker 1: So you know, those are the type of guys that
Speaker 1: that I think he reminds me of. He just he's
Speaker 1: five eleven, he's a hundred and sixty pounds, soaking wet.
Speaker 1: But I sent a picture to him the other night
Speaker 1: because Steph when he broke the record, Steph with playing
Speaker 1: the pro am and I got a picture of him.
Speaker 1: He's snuck in the picture with Steph. Curus said, if
Speaker 1: you want to congratulate Steph, tell him you're gunning for
Speaker 1: him because you're you're a five eleven hundred sixty pound guys.
Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens. He's fun to watch though,
Speaker 1: and then the younger one, and then what about eight
Speaker 1: that we'll see seventh grade, you know, like right now,
Speaker 1: he's different than said I got seventh grade squad, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's about five five nine five ten bigger than everyone else. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we'll see how much he grows. He's different than Gunner,
Speaker 1: but Gunner has been a good influence. He had seventeen
Speaker 1: about thirteen minutes, Yester. That was really shocked when I
Speaker 1: looked at the numbers. I can't yell at him, you know,
Speaker 1: during the game, I gotta take notes, and I sent
Speaker 1: them notes afterwards. I was like, you've got seventeen points
Speaker 1: about thirteen minutes, So, um, we'll see. But I think
Speaker 1: you love the game, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: gotta if these guys love the game, they'll they'll find
Speaker 1: a way to make it work. And Gunner definitely does.
Speaker 1: I think Ace is still urged to tell, but but
Speaker 1: he really does enjoy it. Do you stantly worked with
Speaker 1: him or or do you stay stay away from it
Speaker 1: because it's it's too hard. Gunner I worked a lot
Speaker 1: with him and Addie who played divisional and basketball, worked
Speaker 1: a lot with her Drew as well, who walked on
Speaker 1: at Stitts and was a pretty good player. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. I mean, it's high school season right now,
Speaker 1: so probably not as much. But it's funny. All the
Speaker 1: stuff that I that we work on a lot of
Speaker 1: it I stole from John b. Line. We stole that
Speaker 1: when I was in Detroit. All his all his um
Speaker 1: fundamental ball handling, passing and in shooting and stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: we stole a lot of that stuff from him. So
Speaker 1: and you can tell when Gunner plays he's at least
Speaker 1: been taught some some pretty good things. Last thing, um,
Speaker 1: most impressive guy you coached against who no one would like,
Speaker 1: they don't like, you know, obviously, everybody brings down a
Speaker 1: big name you coached in the G League, coached in
Speaker 1: college basketball, various levis. Give me a guy who just
Speaker 1: really impressed you I coached against. Wow, that's a that's
Speaker 1: a really good question. You're talking about the NBA level
Speaker 1: whatever you want, just somebody who pops out as you're like, man,
Speaker 1: you know what that guys, he's really good. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: he really sent me. That's a that's a tough one
Speaker 1: because I'm one of those coaches that kind of like
Speaker 1: picks guys apart. Yeah, no, I I get it, like
Speaker 1: they got put sometimes to our guys that really impressed you.
Speaker 1: You know, you know there was a guy that that
Speaker 1: really never made it to the league and he played
Speaker 1: with Patty Mills and just off the top min Mickey McConnell.
Speaker 1: People on the West Coast will know, right. I think
Speaker 1: he's an assistant St. Mary's. Yeah, like he he was,
Speaker 1: you know, he was going to he was going to
Speaker 1: New Mexico and he was gonna play for UM. Well
Speaker 1: am I forgetting the head coach at Liberty, Um, you
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. He was the head coach
Speaker 1: in New Mexico. He gets fired and they got they
Speaker 1: got him late at St. Mary's. Like he's an unbelievable player, Yeah,
Speaker 1: really good. Like it's funny. When he started out, we
Speaker 1: were game planning. We thought we could take things away
Speaker 1: from him and just like Delavadova, and Patty Mills. We
Speaker 1: knew about those guys, you know what I mean, You
Speaker 1: knew about those guys. With Mickey, you could like we
Speaker 1: game planned and he would figure out the game plan
Speaker 1: and just attack it. And I was and Randy get
Speaker 1: some credit for that too, but I was like, goodness gracious, like, okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna play him in a drop, We're gonna force
Speaker 1: him this direction. You know, we're gonna make him finish
Speaker 1: at the rim. And he would always figure out ways
Speaker 1: to beat us, and so, uh, you know, don't like
Speaker 1: giving St. Mary's a lot of love, but uh, he
Speaker 1: was a guy that people in national wat nationwide wouldn't
Speaker 1: necessarily think, but he was a really good college player.
Speaker 1: I'd have to think about the G League. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of good players in the G League that it's funny,
Speaker 1: like guys that couldn't make it in the NBA. There
Speaker 1: was a guy that played for Sue Falls and made it,
Speaker 1: made it with Golden State for a little bit and
Speaker 1: not from getting what his name was, but he was
Speaker 1: a great leader, couldn't shoot it, but just figured out
Speaker 1: ways to win. And those are always guys I really
Speaker 1: enjoy watching and even coaching against I'll look his name
Speaker 1: up and i'll tex it to you. All right, So
Speaker 1: let's let's do this. Let's let's table this, and then
Speaker 1: sometime mid year we'll just you'll you'll send me a
Speaker 1: couple of uh NBA teams you want to talk about
Speaker 1: and some of the college stuff you want to talk about,
Speaker 1: and we'll revisit it then. But the meantime, you've been
Speaker 1: more than gracious for your time. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And uh, this is awesome and it's an amazing journey
Speaker 1: right like you're fifty one, you got thirty more years
Speaker 1: left to figure out what you want to do and hoop.
Speaker 1: I appreciate now, I've been really blessed. I've never I
Speaker 1: haven't worked a day in my life, but I like
Speaker 1: to say I worked really hard. So I appreciate you
Speaker 1: letting me come on. I've always we've known each other
Speaker 1: from Afar, We've we've crossed paths a few times, and
Speaker 1: so uh, and I like to show like I guess
Speaker 1: the doctors shows funny like doctor just just crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: and you're he's he's in, he's in. Uh, brother, thanks
Speaker 1: thanks for joining me, and have a great, great day,
Speaker 1: all right, man, take care than you. Amazing stuff. Right now,
Speaker 1: you feel like you totally know a guy. You have
Speaker 1: a completely different sense. I mean, I did know that
Speaker 1: his mom was Japanese, had no idea that most of
Speaker 1: his friends were from that background growing up in San Jose,
Speaker 1: did you? Of course not. I remember the Northwestern thing.
Speaker 1: I didn't know why he transferred. I didn't know a
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff about playing for Roy Williams, and
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't know how he got into coaching. And
Speaker 1: I was intrigued to hear why he felt like it
Speaker 1: didn't work out in San Francisco and why he left
Speaker 1: Lord Atlantic for San Francisco. That's great stuff. Rex has
Speaker 1: told me he'll you'll join me. We'll talk more basketball analysis,
Speaker 1: both NBA, which of course he's coached in and college
Speaker 1: throughout the season. But I really appreciate all the time
Speaker 1: you spent. I appreciate the time you spend downloading as well.
Speaker 1: Remember the Doug Godlip Shows daily three to six Eastern
Speaker 1: Cultrough Pacific. You can download that as a podcast as well. Um,
Speaker 1: if he liked it, you didn't like it, whatever, feel
Speaker 1: free reach out on social media. We're on uh Instagram
Speaker 1: at god Lip Show on Twitter at god lip Show,
Speaker 1: and then of course it's the Doug gotlip Show fan
Speaker 1: page on Facebook. If you have a suggestion for a guest,
Speaker 1: we're open to him. Send it in a d M
Speaker 1: and I'll see if I can get him on. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, tell a friend about it, Retweet it. I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed it. My thanks to Rex Walters. I'm
Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieben. This is all the