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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the latest All Ball. I mean, BOYD,

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Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb, and I am uh, I'm really really excited

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Speaker 1: by your thoughts on this week's guest. This week's guest,

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Speaker 1: Uh to me, I love stories of guys that they

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Speaker 1: kind of work through things, right, That's that's what I

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Speaker 1: um and when I I remember when Kyle McLarney got

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Speaker 1: suspended at Notre Dame and had to leave Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: and then went back to UH. When went back to

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Speaker 1: um UH to Notre Dame and made it his junior

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Speaker 1: and senior year, and I followed him playing overseas for years.

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Speaker 1: I followed him when he came back to become a

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Speaker 1: high school coach, and now he's trying to be an agent.

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Speaker 1: Like I just I love guys like, Hey, that's a chapter,

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Speaker 1: but there's other chapters to the book. So instead of

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Speaker 1: talking about college basketball schedules, I'm fascinated by them. I

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Speaker 1: love this idea of playing the same team on back

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Speaker 1: to back nights. I just I think it's cool. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of playing minor league basketball. Right. You play

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Speaker 1: a team, and you play a team again, and you

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Speaker 1: know there will be no doubters you. You if you

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Speaker 1: beat a team two games in a row, there's like

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Speaker 1: no doubt who the better team is, and there's a

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Speaker 1: mental advantage you hold over that team if you ever

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Speaker 1: see them again. But the idea that you could play

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Speaker 1: a team four times in the season in in a

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Speaker 1: in a stretch of just two two trips each way

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Speaker 1: like home and home, that feels crazy to me, crazy

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Speaker 1: crazy to me. But instead of getting into college schedules

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Speaker 1: for the preseason All American or awards stuff, we can

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Speaker 1: do that up coming next week. I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: you this interview Kyle mcclarney. Uh is what is he now?

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Speaker 1: He's who thirty three years old, is from Staten isl

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Speaker 1: in New York and just a stud ball player and

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Speaker 1: I think a great guy to have around the game

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Um, this is me catching up

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Speaker 1: with Kyle. All right, let's welcome him in because he's

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Speaker 1: now moved from player to coach at More Catholic High School.

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Speaker 1: I believe he's the pride of the Pride of Staten Island.

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Speaker 1: Of course, played at More Catholic. We'll get to his

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Speaker 1: his entire basketball journey as much as we can here

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Speaker 1: in the All Ball Podcast. He's Kyle mcilary. Cow how

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Speaker 1: are you great, Doug. Thanks for having me on man,

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Speaker 1: And I just have to correct you. I actually I

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Speaker 1: vacated that position. I'm now working for Priority Sports here

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Speaker 1: in Chicago, and I'm sort of like a hybrid role here, um,

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Speaker 1: working to become an agent but also training everybody in

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Speaker 1: the company. So I left that, I left my my hometown,

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Speaker 1: in my home school. I'm not I'm on the board now.

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Speaker 1: I'm still involved, but it was a great two years

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Speaker 1: when I was. There was a good transition for me.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. Okay, Um, why the mask. I'm in

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Speaker 1: the build. I'm in the East Bank Club here in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: and I had the mask off, and some guy came

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Speaker 1: around and knocked on the door and said I have

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Speaker 1: to wear the mask at all times while I'm in

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Speaker 1: the building. Um, and in in an effort not to

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Speaker 1: get kicked out of here. UM, I figured I'd keep

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Speaker 1: it on. That's fair. I just didn't know. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't know what what what level of like because because

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Speaker 1: we're I feel like I feel like we're like at

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Speaker 1: least my family were like in the middle, Like we

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Speaker 1: didn't do Halloween treating because that's like, that's like giving

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Speaker 1: everybody the middle finger. We know more than doctors and scientists.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, sometimes I watch on TV and

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Speaker 1: there're people that are standing all alone with a camera

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Speaker 1: that's way off in the distance to night. I'm like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's overdoing it a little bit. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: gotta be you gotta make kind of sound sensible decisions

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Speaker 1: to be somewhere in the middles. That's fair, totally. We did.

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Speaker 1: We did the trick or treating, um thing at a

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Speaker 1: distance where I was. People set up candy on the

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Speaker 1: front lawns and things like that. Um, I was a

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Speaker 1: little bit uncomfortable with the amount of people that were out,

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Speaker 1: but um, you know, I try and do my best

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Speaker 1: to play my play my part. So a bunch of

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Speaker 1: things I want to get to more important. Let's get

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Speaker 1: the best that our children's trick or treating. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: start with please. Okay, you grew up on Staten Island, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's like New York, but not There's it's

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Speaker 1: different than the rest of the boroughs. I feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there's there's a Staten Island. What was

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Speaker 1: it like growing up as a hooper in State Island.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you put it that way, because it is different.

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Speaker 1: It is New York City. We're a borough of New

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Speaker 1: York City. But growing up in Staten Island, you're you're

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Speaker 1: you're insulated a little bit. Staten Island is where the

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Speaker 1: cops and the firemen live and the teachers and the nurses.

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Speaker 1: Very blue collar area. Um, but it's an island literally speaking,

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Speaker 1: it's an island. And UM, the competition on State Island

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Speaker 1: for basketball it's not that good. Um, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: that good. So that's why I was able to score

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Speaker 1: so many points in high school. UM, My exposure came

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Speaker 1: from a u. UM. But what had happened was I

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Speaker 1: started to develop. UM. I started to become well known,

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Speaker 1: at least on Staten Island, and you know, newspaper articles

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Speaker 1: and people will deeming me the best player ever on

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Speaker 1: Staten Island. And it really propped me up. But the

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Speaker 1: general consensus for people who know is, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: not good. You're not anything. You ain't shipped until you

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Speaker 1: test yourself within the city, um and offst Noland because

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Speaker 1: the basketball just quite frankly, it's just not good. It's

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Speaker 1: just not. It's interesting because about I don't know about

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Speaker 1: two years ago, I put out a tweet it was

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Speaker 1: a year ago that the like little loone secret is

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Speaker 1: that there's just not as many players or not players

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Speaker 1: in New York like there used to be even when

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Speaker 1: you were coming out, just because so many people have

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Speaker 1: moved and obviously it's before quarantine were now at any

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Speaker 1: families of course can move out, but it just it

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Speaker 1: feels like one most kids don't go to they don't

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Speaker 1: want to go to college in the city, let alone

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Speaker 1: even high school in the city. And then now you're

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Speaker 1: getting more and more families moved out to the to

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Speaker 1: the bourbs or just move away because it's so crazy

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Speaker 1: it has been previously so crazy expensive to live in Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: What was the hoop like, like, who are the other

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Speaker 1: guys um in Manhattan and the other boroughs in the

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Speaker 1: surrounding areas? You are graduating year? What was that? What

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Speaker 1: was that crewe? Like? So the year before me was

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Speaker 1: was best he Sebastian Telfair, Um he was he was

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Speaker 1: The year before me my year zavari and won the

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Speaker 1: city championship and that was Leven's Fields point guard from

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Speaker 1: pitt I was actually slated to go to Zavarian, which

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Speaker 1: is right over the over the bridge in Brooklyn to

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Speaker 1: play with Leven's. Ended up not going because my high

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Speaker 1: school was like two minutes from my house and my

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Speaker 1: parents were like, yeah, you're not going there, like, we'll

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Speaker 1: take up the block. It's fine. Um So Leven's fields

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Speaker 1: he was my opinion, he was the best player in

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Speaker 1: the city. I thought he was better than me at

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Speaker 1: the time. Great ball handler controlled the game, um and

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Speaker 1: demonstrated on a level that I never had the chance

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Speaker 1: to do. Uh So he was. He was big. Sebastian

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Speaker 1: was before me. Um, my class wasn't that strong. Greg

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Speaker 1: Paul has a lot of people talked about him because

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Speaker 1: he was upstate, but it was really us three in

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Speaker 1: in in the entire New York state. I mean, my

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Speaker 1: class really wasn't that strong in New York City at

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Speaker 1: the time. You know, it's it's industring. So so Bassie

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Speaker 1: was at the McDonald's game that year I called it.

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Speaker 1: It was in Oklahoma City, and that year I believe

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Speaker 1: there's like eight dudes. J R. Smith was one of them. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Dhye Howard was the number number one or number two.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember it was him or Remecca for right

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Speaker 1: and um And I remember going to the restaurant that

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Speaker 1: became I forget who it was called before was became

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Speaker 1: k D's restaurant. It was before KT went to was

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Speaker 1: there and and after the workouts one night and you know,

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Speaker 1: all the scouts year around and I was like, one

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Speaker 1: of you guys gonna do it? Like what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: I was like, one are you guys gonna take him?

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Speaker 1: And it's gonna be a mistake. And it was Sebastian

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Speaker 1: Tailfair And I actually there's a lot of Bassie that

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Speaker 1: I like in that he was a creative passer. It

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Speaker 1: was quick. I mean, he was kind of your classic

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Speaker 1: atypical New York City point guard right can get to

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Speaker 1: the rim, or can make a play off penetration. But

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Speaker 1: he just didn't have He didn't have he didn't have

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Speaker 1: the size of Steph Right. He was his cousin and

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Speaker 1: he did so he wasn't as powerful as able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, adjust to the pro game defensively where they

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Speaker 1: exposed you couldn't really shoot, and just wasn't really like

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Speaker 1: everything with him had to be some sort of fancy

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Speaker 1: pass or something a little bit over the time. It

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Speaker 1: was just too much city game and he just needed

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Speaker 1: like he was supposed to go to Louisville, like that

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Speaker 1: would have been perfect for it, right to get just

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Speaker 1: refine him a little bit before he got there, because

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Speaker 1: they throw you out, They put you out in the

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Speaker 1: deep end, and you're eighteen years old and they're coming

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Speaker 1: at you, and then you have all the other things

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Speaker 1: going on your personal life. Um uh, but you and

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Speaker 1: Levance had amazing, amazing college, So why not to day?

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Speaker 1: Why did you pick Notre Day? Because I had the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to play as a freshman, bottom line, that's why.

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Speaker 1: That's why I went there. And I you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people like to throw the narrative out there

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Speaker 1: for you know, McLarney is my last name, Irish Catholic kid,

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Speaker 1: right again, of course the Notre Dame thing appealed to

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Speaker 1: my my parents, the academics, of course. But if I'm

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Speaker 1: giving you my real answer is because coach Bray, Coach

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Speaker 1: Barak told me that I had an opportunity to start

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Speaker 1: as a freshman, and that to me was the most important.

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Speaker 1: And that's actually the advice I give to a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids these days is go where you're gonna play,

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Speaker 1: because that's where you're gonna be happier. You're gonna be happy,

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Speaker 1: right like no one I like, I I got blessed

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Speaker 1: people that can sit there and cheer, like I remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's why I went to Notre Dame. Was

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Speaker 1: McLeod said I'd be the starting point guard right away. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know the programs that I turned down, it

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Speaker 1: was because it wasn't that case, right, I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was just very very simple. And what's interesting is I

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Speaker 1: my first YOBT we won a championship in Russia, and

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Speaker 1: I like split time, and I was miserable, right like,

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Speaker 1: we literally won every game but one game the entire

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Speaker 1: time I was in Russia, which is like on herd

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Speaker 1: if we brought our We won our euro League, we

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Speaker 1: won the Russian League. We lost one game one right um,

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Speaker 1: and I was I was miserable because I wasn't. I'm

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Speaker 1: so you know, you're like, why are do you used

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Speaker 1: to play in thirty thirty five minutes? You're like, non,

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Speaker 1: I don want to sit here, like I don't care

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Speaker 1: what you You don't feel a part of it. So

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Speaker 1: for me and I had Chris Quinn was a senior

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Speaker 1: when I was a freshman. Yeah, Colin Falls was a

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Speaker 1: junior when I was a freshman. But Coach Bray was like, man,

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Speaker 1: you know, I want to play three four guards, guys

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Speaker 1: who could shoot it, pass it, handle it free too,

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Speaker 1: you know, free motion style offense. Uh no, no rules

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Speaker 1: really And I was like, let's go. I'm ready. So

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Speaker 1: for me, that was the main thing. Was the other

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Speaker 1: stuff was honestly, um it was it was icing on

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Speaker 1: top of the cake. I wanted to play. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to play right away, and I didn't want to wait.

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Speaker 1: And that was the only reason why I went there. Okay, so, uh,

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Speaker 1: we haven't we had we we did know pre interview

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Speaker 1: meeting or whatever. But I did want to ask you

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Speaker 1: about the suspension. You cool with that, yeah, of course,

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Speaker 1: of course. So for people who don't remember, like you're

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Speaker 1: in the conversation of best guard in the Big East,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say you were. We're a junior at the time,

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Speaker 1: I was a sophomore. Was a sophomore, okay, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden it pops up that you test positive

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Speaker 1: for we tell to take I got arrested. Oh you're arrested. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so here he so I'll tell you the story. So

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Speaker 1: it was my sophomore year, Chris Queen graduates. Here's the ball,

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Speaker 1: right your program. Ironically, it was actually after my best

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Speaker 1: game today. I think I had seven threes. I forget

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Speaker 1: who we played. It was December. It was day after

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Speaker 1: Christmas and I am out of at a buddy's house

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Speaker 1: and I'm driving home by myself, and I was smoking

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Speaker 1: a little week and I got pulled over for not

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Speaker 1: signaling for a lane change, and they arrested me and

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Speaker 1: it took me to jail, and I spent the night

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Speaker 1: in jail. And basically we were on break then, right,

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Speaker 1: so there was no classes. So the hotel then we

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Speaker 1: were staying. Yeah, we're staying at the residents in down

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Speaker 1: there in South Bend. Yeah. Um, so horrible, horrible time

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Speaker 1: for me. But there was no classes. So, as you know,

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Speaker 1: the way Notre Dame works is they have the the

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Speaker 1: student Affairs Committee or whatever it's it's sort of like

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Speaker 1: a uh. They weren't in either committee. It was an

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Speaker 1: honor committee, right, Yeah, And so they basically told me,

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Speaker 1: you gotta wait until we get back, until class gets

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Speaker 1: back in session, to everybody's back on campus. Coach bry

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Speaker 1: in the meantime, suspending me in definitely from the basketball

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Speaker 1: team for games, but I was allowed to practice and

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Speaker 1: travel with the team. So for the whole Christmas break,

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Speaker 1: I practiced with the team, and I traveled with the team.

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Speaker 1: We went to Villanuova and went to Georgetown during that stretch.

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Speaker 1: And at this point you're already talking about it on

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Speaker 1: the EASTPN. So at this point, you know the words

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Speaker 1: out there, it's it's it's uh, the whole arena is

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Speaker 1: chanting at me. You know that that kind of deal.

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Speaker 1: Um when they get back to the otherwise writer, I

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Speaker 1: just like he was writer on the December was when

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Speaker 1: you had seven threes Ryder College twenty Yeah, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you definitely had seven. But they were chanting, Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were chanting. Pothead um. You know the you know, do

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Speaker 1: you wanna smoke or joint after the game and it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't stop. You know. I love the idea though, that

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Speaker 1: like college students so that many of many of whom

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Speaker 1: smoked a joint either before or after the game, are

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Speaker 1: giving you ship about it. Like the the irony to

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Speaker 1: it is amazing. Oh yeah, I got it. But I

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Speaker 1: got a bunch of questions though, Okay, I got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never understood smoking

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Speaker 1: in the car, right, I just that's the one that

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Speaker 1: I don't that I don't get. I like, I I

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Speaker 1: full fully candid. Yeah, I spoke. We a little bit

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Speaker 1: in college. Never during the season. We were petrified to

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Speaker 1: be getting caught, right, and it was a little bit

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Speaker 1: before you and obviously times have kind of changed and

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Speaker 1: how people view it. But we were just like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not I I'm not in season. So it was

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Speaker 1: very very rarely and it was out of season. But

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Speaker 1: I never understood the cruise along because it's it's like

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Speaker 1: they if you do it in your apartment or something

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Speaker 1: else's apartment, the only chance you can get caught is

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Speaker 1: if you get caught when they test you. And even then,

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Speaker 1: as long as it's not a conference or an n

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Speaker 1: c A test, it's like a slap on the wrist. Right,

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Speaker 1: So why in the car? Because I was I I did.

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Speaker 1: I smoked weed by myself. I was not a social Um.

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it in in groups. It gave me anxiety,

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Speaker 1: actually developed panic attacks. Um, I did it honestly, And

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Speaker 1: this we can go back when I watched Chris Herron's

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Speaker 1: story and I get and when I first watched it,

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Speaker 1: I sort of resonated with it a little bit, the

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Speaker 1: pressure of that, you know, when you put on a

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Speaker 1: pedestal at such a young age and you're depicted as

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Speaker 1: this um perfect kid, good grades, great athlete, He's going

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Speaker 1: to Notre Dame, making us all proud this and that.

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Speaker 1: I I when I got to Notre Dame, I really

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Speaker 1: I struggled a little bit socially because I really didn't

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Speaker 1: have an outlet. I couldn't escape that pressure, and I

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, I turned to weed because it was the

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Speaker 1: only thing that gave me sort of a little bit

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Speaker 1: of an escape from that pressure. It's sort of like

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Speaker 1: a little bit of release. So why in the car?

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Speaker 1: Because I did it by myself, Because I wasn't a

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Speaker 1: guy who was out there doing it thrown on everybody

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Speaker 1: else's faces. I wasn't. I wasn't like that. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was a loner when I when I when I

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Speaker 1: when I did it, And that's uh, the reason why

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Speaker 1: is because I just it was the only way for

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Speaker 1: me to kind of like release all this tension and

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Speaker 1: pressure on my shoulder. It's really fascinating because you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously the ship I is way stupider, right and easier track.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think it was as much of a release,

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Speaker 1: but I do completely understand the idea of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're like you're it's you're just you. Only you create

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Speaker 1: him for yourself these expectations, right, And I remember, like

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Speaker 1: the thing about Notre Dame, and I actually now I

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Speaker 1: respected even more, is like you legitimately have to go

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Speaker 1: to school and legitimately have to study. And I just

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Speaker 1: remember being overwhelmed, like high school ship's easy, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: if you pay attention and stay a little bit, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get an A R B. And that was good enough, right,

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Speaker 1: And then you know, like my SA T was good enough. Right.

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Speaker 1: Everything was just good enough and you could get by

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Speaker 1: like they're everybody's smart and everybody's focused, you know, or

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Speaker 1: if not, they kind of weed it out, and then

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Speaker 1: you have basketball, and basketball's way. I felt like it

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Speaker 1: was just it was way harder than I thought it

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Speaker 1: would be, you know, like ID in this whole life,

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Speaker 1: I was born for this, you know. So I averaged

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Speaker 1: thirty five points a game for two years in high school.

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Speaker 1: I scored two thousand, five D sixty six points. In

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Speaker 1: high school, I came in on my um. I think

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Speaker 1: was it my visitor. The first day at Notre Dame,

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00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: we were just playing twos in in the pit, which

334
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,919
Speaker 1: was the practice. So Chris Quinn busted my ass so

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Speaker 1: bad that I walked out of that gym almost in tears,

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Speaker 1: you know, almost in tears. I think everybody's I think

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Speaker 1: everybody's been there. I think I think we create this thing.

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Speaker 1: This is why I'm against the even the one and done.

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Speaker 1: I think everybody should go like at least two years

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Speaker 1: of college because that first year, you you're gonna get

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Speaker 1: your ass kicked in the first like three months by

342
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 1: all the veteran dudes. Right, they're bigger, they're faster, they're stronger,

343
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Speaker 1: they know kind of the game, they know how everything

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Speaker 1: kind of works, and they're gonna and eventually, like your

345
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 1: talent comes out once you kind of figure stuff out,

346
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Speaker 1: but your body is gonna change too, because no matter

347
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Speaker 1: what trainer you worked with in high school, like I

348
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: worked with Marv Brnovitch, She's a great renowned trainer. You

349
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Speaker 1: get to college, you start taking some creatina and they

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00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 1: start putting some meat on you. Like everything, your whole

351
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 1: body changes, and you have to worry about your game

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00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 1: changing while everything else kind of changes. I think, like

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Speaker 1: that's like the best thing for everybody. Levels you off,

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Speaker 1: You're like, wait, I'm not no only am I not

355
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Speaker 1: one of the best players on Earth? I might not

356
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Speaker 1: be even be the best point guard in this gym.

357
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Speaker 1: And I thought I the coaches told me I was right.

358
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Speaker 1: Why am I not? Like, I think that's the I

359
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: think that's kind of the beauty of the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: It is, it is, and and I think everybody, you're right,

361
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Speaker 1: has to go through that in order to grow and

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Speaker 1: get better. YEA, for me that first day, I I mean,

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Speaker 1: Chris Quinn was you know, underrated point guard and Biggie's

364
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 1: sister really really good player, and I'm not downplaying his talent,

365
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Speaker 1: but he kicked my ass man. From that point on,

366
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 1: it made me work differently. Um, it made me see

367
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Speaker 1: the game a little bit differently. But at the same time,

368
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Speaker 1: I had this added pressure from back home that I

369
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Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't sunk up. I couldn't. I couldn't so

370
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Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to get So you get in trouble

371
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Speaker 1: in the night in jail. And now you're in the

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Speaker 1: cell phone era, right, because I was before cell phones, right,

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Speaker 1: So I had to wait. You know, when all my

374
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Speaker 1: stuff went down, It wasn't until it came out in

375
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Speaker 1: the newspaper and then all of a sudden, you know,

376
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 1: people looked at you different. What was it like in

377
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 1: those next couple of days in terms of heart had

378
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Speaker 1: your back that to this day you will not forget. Well,

379
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Speaker 1: my teammates all, every single one of them, every single

380
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Speaker 1: one of them. So I'll just run you through. The

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Speaker 1: first phone call maybe was to my father and he

382
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 1: ripped me a new assholes, so to speak. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then a day later he was like, all right, we

384
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: gotta get through this. Let's get through it. So my

385
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 1: parents were unbelievable to me during the whole process. Then

386
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Speaker 1: I went to see coach Bray at about seven am

387
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: the next morning to let him know about everything that happened. Um.

388
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: And then we had a team meeting and I told

389
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 1: the team and they they had my backs from that

390
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 1: moment on. They didn't act differently towards me. They they

391
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 1: supported me through the entire process, and basically I relied

392
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Speaker 1: solely on them. Um. I actually I didn't. I stayed

393
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 1: there for the next couple of weeks because I was

394
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: awaiting you know, classes to resume and the student Affairs

395
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: committee to meet and you know, see my case or whatever,

396
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: and and so that whole time, I just I was

397
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 1: in the gym, I practiced with the team and really

398
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: just laid low. But it was it was a dark time.

399
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 1: It was pretty dark because I didn't know what the

400
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: future was going to hold. Um. It's funny. During that time,

401
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: actually I had to go I had to go see UM.

402
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,400
Speaker 1: I had to do community service. I had to do

403
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: a drug counseling um, and I had to uh yeah,

404
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,239
Speaker 1: I had to see this drug counselor. And it was

405
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 1: it was just really awkward because, um, I'm not an

406
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: addict and you've just smoked a joint to relax, like

407
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 1: and you don't want to downplay the stupidity of it,

408
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: but it's the stupidity because like I, like I remember,

409
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,719
Speaker 1: like I had this exact same you know, Pat Gartty

410
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,439
Speaker 1: is a dear friend of mine, my teammate, and he

411
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: was like a biochem major and he was like, you

412
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: do know that HC is less harmful than nicotine, And

413
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: I was like, how Are you advocating for me to smoke?

414
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 1: He's like no, He's like, I'm just telling you, Like,

415
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: the whole thing is so screw he doesn't make any sense.

416
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: And you know, so yeah, I okay, So how did

417
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: you make it back? What was the process like of

418
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: making it back? So, UM, I got suspended. UM, and

419
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: it was a pretty pretty tough thing to swallow because

420
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: at this point where we're like three or four weeks

421
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: from the arrest UM, and Coach Bray, you know, he

422
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: he supported me through the whole thing, but I don't

423
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: even think he knew what the administration was going to do. UM.

424
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: So they came down with the hammer and they actually

425
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: told me that if I don't leave campus within forty

426
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: eight hours, they're gonna arrest me. So I vividly remember

427
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: standing up, and you know, I think I said fuck this, UM,

428
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: and I walked out. I threw all my Notre Dame

429
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: clothes on the floor and I got in my car

430
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 1: and I left. I left campus. UM. I went to

431
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 1: my uncle's house lived in Ohio. But for the next

432
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: couple of months, I started to get recruiting phone calls again.

433
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: I was getting rerecruited. UM. Sean Miller when he was

434
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: at Xavier. I was close to transferring. I was very

435
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: very close to transferring. UH coach Brady flew back to

436
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: New York. UM. He brought a jersey with him. He

437
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: sat in the house with my parents and I for

438
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: like four hours in Staten Island, and he rerecruited me.

439
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: He resold me on the entire program. You resold me

440
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: on sort of my comeback story. And I just felt like,

441
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: you know what, I made a commitment to this program,

442
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: and I wanted my teammates who had my back. I

443
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: want to I want to spend some more time with them.

444
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,959
Speaker 1: I want to, you know, solidify those relationships with the

445
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: rest of my life. And and and I went back. Um,

446
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: I went back in June of two thousand and eight.

447
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 1: Well do you remember about your first game back, first

448
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 1: home game, first home game back. I remember I led

449
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: the team out on the floor to the fight song

450
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: and UM played all I you by the way, Yeah,

451
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: no no tears, um, no chills. I was angry that year.

452
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: I was angry. Um. That was my best year. That

453
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: was my best year I was able to tap into

454
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: I think any player can probably speak to this. There's

455
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: certain moments where you know you're you're able to harness

456
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: your your energy in some sort of a way and

457
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: and use it for for the game, whether it's uh

458
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: whatever it is. That's it. D Yeah, this is this

459
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: is so eleve year old son and uh, he's I

460
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: don't know how big he'll be, I don't know how

461
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: good he'll be or whatever. But this is the the

462
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: honest discussion that we've had. I said, and I think

463
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: when my daughters as well, like, you know that thing,

464
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: that that nervousness you have, the pressure you feel of

465
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: wanting to win. I wanted to look good for your buddies,

466
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to help the team you wanted

467
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: to play. You know, if you want to, you carry

468
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: a burden of trying to play for me or play

469
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: well for your parents whatever like. And the best find

470
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: a way to use that as their energy, whereas the

471
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: people that don't, they allowed to bring them down right,

472
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: and you you can. It's it's it's a it's a choice. Now.

473
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: Look some of it. It's a really hard for kids mentality,

474
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: it's hard for I think us even as high level athletes.

475
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: But I think that's that's the deal right there, right

476
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: because like look some dudes just wake up angry and

477
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: want to kill everybody every day and they use that

478
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: towards too. But to the people who are like feel

479
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: kind of this pressure and anxiety and stress and Atlanta

480
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: and excitement over performance, I think that's that that's the

481
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: deal is how do you harness that and use that

482
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: as your field? And I don't I don't know how

483
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: you do it, Like I don't know if I could

484
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: verbalize it. You know better than just you figure it out.

485
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: You figure out how to sit with this feeling. And

486
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: that's what I remember about the first game, and that's

487
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: what carried me through that entire season. Was like every

488
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: game I went into just like angry, you know, and

489
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: looking to prove people not wrong because I was where

490
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be. But you know, I just

491
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to to re reintroduce myself or or well

492
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's that's a moment. That's not who

493
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: you are, right, You're not you know, you're not some

494
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: dude smoking Jay's you know, trolling through sounds like you're

495
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: you're you're a hooper. You're a hooper and whatever we

496
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: and you move on. Um, you know, you had a

497
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: very successful European career. Now, obviously before I come back

498
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: to the States, I do wonder though, like in terms

499
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: of what a backup guard looks like in the NBA.

500
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: To just make the league, you gotta be able to shoot.

501
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: You're a great shooter. You gotta be tough. You're tougher

502
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: than Ship, right, you gotta be able to run a team.

503
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: You could do that. Why do you think you didn't

504
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: make it to the league. I think it was I

505
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: don't think and I think I would have struggled, So

506
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: I don't think it's it's wrong. Um. Defensively, it wasn't

507
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: a quickness issue. It was a size issue. I mean,

508
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: I'm five eleven five and I was. I fully believe

509
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: till this day, I'm the best shooter in the world, right, Like,

510
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: I'll walk on the court and you know, we'll get

511
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: on the court together and we'll talk ship and and

512
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: you know you're not beating me in the game of horse.

513
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: I fully believe that, right, And I fully believe that

514
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: at the time. So in terms of skill, in terms

515
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: of speed, I thought I was there. In terms of

516
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: quickness end to end, maybe not there, But you know,

517
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: staying in front of guys. I thought I did a good,

518
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: decent enough job, but size. You know, Um, I worked

519
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: my ass Yeah, I worked my ass off in the

520
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: weight room, but I never really felt that I could

521
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: like take a bump and and and uh and and

522
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: kind of stay stand my ground. As hard as I

523
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: worked in the way room, I never felt true basketball

524
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: strength on the court. Um. So, I think it was

525
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: a size issue for me. It was a size. I

526
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: think they're the questions where who can I guard? And

527
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: I think they were right. I don't know. I think

528
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: I would struggled. I think I really would struggled defensively. Um.

529
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: Your best experience playing overseas is where in France. So

530
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: I played in France seven years. I played nine years

531
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: overseas and seven of them are in France. Two years

532
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: with Lemos and then five years with or Leon and

533
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: that's where I finished my career. And that was a

534
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: choice more than anything. Um, you've just done. Um well.

535
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: After my second year in Lemos, um I was playing

536
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: pretty well. I had an opportunity to go to Spain.

537
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 1: But my wife at the time and I we were

538
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: having conversations and I just didn't want to, you know,

539
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to create more of a stable lifestyle for

540
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: for her and I and so we could start a family.

541
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: And we liked the city of or Leon, and they

542
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: just kept off for me two year contracts, so I

543
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: just kept signing them, and I just I felt like,

544
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: this is a good city, this is a good team.

545
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: I love the fans, the club. It's about an hour

546
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: south of Paris, and we kind of made it at

547
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: home there and for me, that was the entire my

548
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: entire five years there was was the best experience of

549
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: my life. Tell tell me if you think this is wrong.

550
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: So I had Phil hickeyon who played with me in

551
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, and he talked about how he just he

552
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: couldn't do the minor league basketball thing, and I kind

553
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: of expressed it the same thing. It's just it's so

554
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: hard to go somewhere where people aren't about team and

555
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: they're about getting somewhere else, Right, How can I get

556
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: to somewhere other than where I am now? Which is

557
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: I do feel like? And I don't think it's just

558
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: prone to Notre Dame guys. I think it's a lot

559
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: of guys that have a really good college experience. You

560
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: do you it's like you said, you want to come

561
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: back for your teammates. Right, Those are your those your boys,

562
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: Those are your Those are your guys you ride or

563
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: die with, right. And I don't know if everybody is

564
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: wired that way, but I do think there's a there's

565
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: a healthy dose of that from guys that had really

566
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: good college careers and the reason that they enjoy European

567
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: basketball maybe then slugging out to try and make it

568
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,479
Speaker 1: here is the idea that it is more of a team.

569
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: It is can be more of a family if you

570
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: stay in the same place. The hard part is when

571
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: you bounced team to team I did. I could not

572
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: get down with that. I really really I struggled with

573
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: Like I remember winning a Russian championship and I was like,

574
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: I don't care. I like that I'm getting a bonus,

575
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: but I physically don't care. I'm still pissed. We lost

576
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: the Florida in the Italy Eight in Oklahoma my last

577
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: home game. I don't give a ship. We'd just beat

578
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 1: nix Kazan to win the Russian championship. Don't care. And

579
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of what you tapped into you smartly,

580
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: you knew yourself and that like, I'm better off knowing

581
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: and loving the people that I'm here and having a

582
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: real connection than just chasing the check, which is what

583
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: most Yeah, and there were some things that fell in

584
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: my favor, you know. Uh, I actually played with the

585
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: same group of Americans for two and a half to

586
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: three years over there in or Leon. Great guys. Dave

587
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: Noel from North Carolina, marcella summer girl from Bradley, Darnell

588
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: Harris from LaSalle, Brian Green from from Colorado. A couple

589
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: of guys who are now my my I have the

590
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: into that second wave of college teammates and them great guys. Man,

591
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: And uh so that was fell in my favorite. But

592
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting. I kind of want to take a

593
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: look at that, like Notre Dame guys, Duke guys, Standford,

594
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, guys from those kind of a program Virginia.

595
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: Are they able on a grand scale, like what are

596
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: the numbers like are they able to successfully have a

597
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: European career? Because I actually would argue that they're not.

598
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: I would I And Okay, so why do you think

599
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: that is? I have I have a hypothesis so on yours.

600
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I think a lot

601
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: of I think a lot of them. They know that,

602
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: like like, look they did the best something else. It's like, yeah,

603
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be they there's not the this is all

604
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: they have. Like I remember, I was in the Like

605
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: I tell all the time. I was in the IVY.

606
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: So I was supposed to play for a team that

607
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: played in Russia and St. Petersburg but trained in Italy.

608
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: My agent, Herberto at the time was just a weird year.

609
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: We're gonna up for half the year and then you

610
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: transferred to a different team. And then I didn't get

611
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: my really passed forward, so that fell through and I

612
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: went to I had to come back. I was with

613
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: the Lakers. They cut me before I got to the

614
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: VET VET camp, so I went to the c B

615
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: A and beat out like thirteen dudes and uh, and

616
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: then Randy Livingston got cut the day before the season,

617
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: so then they cut me because Randy Livingston's six five

618
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: you know pro anyway, So I actually called a couple

619
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: of games, did some local radio, stayed healthy, and then

620
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: went to Selena for like six games and we played

621
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: two games in De Moines back to back nights. I

622
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: did with no practice, and then we bust to like

623
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: Salina can't swearing like a sleeper bus. And I just

624
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: remember that, like I was, I was looking around, going

625
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: I can't do this. You know, I love I love

626
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: love basketball. I can't do this, and I was. I

627
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: was taken by most of the guys in the bus,

628
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: like this is all they had, This is it. And

629
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: so I think some of that breeds some of these

630
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: guys that are like they become really good pros, great pros,

631
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: because that aspiration kind of fuels their energy. Whereas I

632
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: think some of it for the Stanfords, the Notre Dames,

633
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: the Virginia's, the Vanderbilts of the world, like those guys

634
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: like the lifestyle, like living overseas, but like, yeah, I

635
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: don't need this ship, you know, like and and and

636
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: and unless you're playing EuroLeague, it really it's tough. It's tough.

637
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: You know. I never played your league. So I was

638
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: just in like France, you know, so domestic one game

639
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: a week, you know, you you kind of fall into

640
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: like a nine to five routine. Uh you got day

641
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: I did. My last gig was in clement Rome and

642
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: they were trying to get to trying to get this

643
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: serial A. The guy went down got hurt. I went

644
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: out there. I loved it. Coaches, the young African dude,

645
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: he was like forty. I vibe with him was great.

646
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: I had no car because I was only there for

647
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: like two months, and I'd called games for a year

648
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: at ESPN, and I would walk a little flat and

649
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: I walked by the pastry shop and get a cappuccino

650
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: and the pastry and go to practice. And then I

651
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: go to the cafe and that's right, my lunch, and

652
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: I read a book and watch some Eurosport whatever that.

653
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: Come back and go to practice and I go to

654
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: the cafe and I come home and said it was amazing.

655
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: But but I but I, I couldn't do that. Hamps

656
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: around a wheel for a long time because I was like,

657
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: it was like a two month vacation. But that was

658
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: But it's hard. It's hard, and it's hard being away

659
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: from family for a long time too. That that that

660
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: that to me, you know, I missed so much. I

661
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: missed my brother's wedding, I missed you know, deaths in

662
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: my family. And at some point, you know, you get nine,

663
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: I'm married, having my first kid. I'm like, do I

664
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: really want to keep missing all these these things? You know,

665
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: and and so that's when I started to think, you know,

666
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta figure this out. Man, I gotta

667
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: I gotta transition out of this. I gotta I love ball.

668
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: I gotta stay involved in it somehow. UM what level

669
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: and how? I don't know yet, but I gotta do

670
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: something else. Okay, last thing. UM. So now you want

671
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: to You're you're doing both training and you want to

672
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: be in egent. Okay, why It's it's an interesting story

673
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: how I fell into this. So I was all set

674
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: to coach. I was the a D at my my

675
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: former high school. I did it for two years. I

676
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: was the athletic director. UM and I was the head

677
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: coach and it was fulfilling, rewarding. UM. I thought I

678
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: was all set to climb the coaching ranks, you know,

679
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: build a program for a couple of years and try

680
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: and get an assistant spot somewhere. UM. But then my

681
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: my buddy who works for Priority Sports, he's an agent

682
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: with us. UM Karen Pillar reached out to me and said, hey,

683
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: Gordon Hayward is looking for looking for a guy on

684
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: the East coast, somebody different. Um. And and I had

685
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: been training players in my off season since I was

686
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: like sixteen, because I developed a reputation on Staten Island already,

687
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: so that was like my side business as I made

688
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: some cash with it, I helped a lot of kids.

689
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: I developed an affinity for teaching the game as well,

690
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of experience with it, and

691
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: I said, sure, I'll give I'll give it a try.

692
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: So I did it less less summer. All summer I

693
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: was up and back and forth between Boston and New

694
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: York and worked with Gordon. Developed a really good relay

695
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: ship with him and Mark Bartlestein, who was our CEO,

696
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: and uh, conversations evolved and I liked to be honest, Doug.

697
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: I liked watching games of Gordon, feeling emotionally invested what

698
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: he was doing. I felt like I was standing up

699
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: like going through like d you know, the pick and

700
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: roll that he was taking, and you know, just talk.

701
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: I was like, ship, this is like playing, you know,

702
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: and and for me it just struck. It felt really um,

703
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: it felt really good, you know. And and so conversations

704
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: evolved and they hired me full time and now I

705
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: kind of travel around a lot. I work with a

706
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: lot of our players and I still work with Gordon,

707
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: but I'm also my you know, I'm gonna be representing

708
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: guys next year and working with with with Priority Sports

709
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: full time with that. So last thing, Um, okay, you

710
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: your professional bass player, you guys you said, I feel

711
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: like I'm the best shooter in every gym, and I'm

712
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 1: always blown away when I watched him or I help

713
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: work out a pro like a Gordon Hayward. And just

714
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: how fucking good these guys are right like, like the

715
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: level of their skill is so much better than any

716
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: human being can conceptualize. Could you could you give me

717
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: a for instance, so trying. No. What I've been so

718
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: impressed with working at guys at that level is how

719
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: quickly they learned something. Um. And you know, for like

720
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: Gordon Hayward, right, Um, the whole conversation was about his

721
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: handle before I worked with him, it was about his handles, handles,

722
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: handle and and his shooting and shooting from from long range.

723
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: So we start working together and very quickly I realized

724
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: this guy's the best, if not, if not the best,

725
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: top five at least mid range player in the NBA,

726
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: and the numbers will back that up. And so there

727
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot for me to do with him, you know,

728
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: like you know, but it became a relationship thing and

729
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: something I digress. I think the level of which these

730
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: guys can learn, like how quickly they can learn something

731
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: is people don't understand. And Gordon Hayward Montju was about

732
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: six eight. You know, he's a He's super athletic, can

733
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: jump off both feet, can handle with both hands, can

734
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: shoot going both ways. I think people underestimate the skill

735
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: that these guys have and what you know, everyone was

736
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: told when I was first working with Gored and everyone

737
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: would say, oh, he's he needs this, he needs that,

738
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: he needs this, and this guy's got got everything, you know,

739
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: he he doesn't. It's not much for me to do.

740
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: It's just gotta it's a confidence thing. Well, look, you

741
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: hit on three things, which I don't think. I think

742
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: the basketball world knows up, but I'm not sure the

743
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: real world. The rest of the world, my friends we

744
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: call him civilians. They understand right that to make the

745
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: league you gotta be able to defend, right, which is

746
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: why he didn't make it. And I'm sure that there's

747
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: so many small guards or there's even big like we

748
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: always talking about big guys like yeah, but can you

749
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: actually can you switch on a pick and roll and

750
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: not get slicensese? Or can you defend the m right?

751
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: So like the defensive way bearing your thought. The second

752
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: thing is, um, how how smart they are? Like we

753
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: we don't do a good enough job. We're so sensitive

754
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: to maybe pointing out that somebody's not a quick learner.

755
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: But dudes, they can't pick things up. You can't play

756
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: at a high level. You just can't. All those guys

757
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: are basically different levels of basketball jeans. Um. And then

758
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: the third part is the confidence factor. Right, if you

759
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: lose that really hard to get it back. But the

760
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: difference in the best and guys that are struggling a

761
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: lot of times it's just what's going on upstairs because

762
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: a lot of them have all the same skills and

763
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: all that same size. Yep, And I think it's you

764
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: you hit on it. How smart guys are you know,

765
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: even when even when we make comments like you know,

766
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: his i Q just doesn't like, you know, let's be

767
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: careful about when we say that, because, um, you know,

768
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: they might be trying to figure something out or fit

769
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: themselves into a different role and that that takes time.

770
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: You know, that does take time. You know, plus, have

771
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: you been wired one way? It's like Mellow right, he

772
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: was wired. He was the best player to go to

773
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: score and now a sudden, we want you to be

774
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: a third score and then we need you to play better.

775
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: It's like it's a completely different and that's we've been

776
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: doing something one way for thirty years. Then hey, late

777
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: in your career once that's a hard shift to make.

778
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: And I also think that's important to point out. Basketball

779
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: intelligence is not regular intelligence. It's it's just my question,

780
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: my question. I would ask you this question, Doug, like,

781
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: since you're a point guard, like can you can you

782
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: become a true point guard? Like can you you know

783
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like? Is that because I was always

784
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: a score? Um? But my size would tell you otherwise, right,

785
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: my size would tell you know I'm a point guard.

786
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: I'm five eleven. Uh, you know good handle, could shoot,

787
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: like understand the game. But I think that like I

788
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: try and score. You know, Um, when I became a

789
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: sophomore Notre Dame and then even my first couple of

790
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: years after when I graduated, they were trying to fit

791
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: me into this point guard position. And you know, I

792
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: gotta run the team. Run the team, run the team,

793
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: run the team, and my assists were just never I

794
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: could never get you know what I mean. And then

795
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: overseas the coaches on me like, you know, you need

796
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: to get your assists up, you need to create for others,

797
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: and I'm like, look like this is what I am.

798
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: You know, that's like trying to tell me you need

799
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: to be a may be a score, right? I tried

800
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: to require myself. Can you teach somebody on a team? Yeah?

801
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: I think I think you can coach them on There

802
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: are things you can coach them on that you can

803
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: You'll you'll never be able to teach somebody vision and passing,

804
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: but I do think you can teach them some of

805
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: the very basic stuff where you can kind of fake it.

806
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: You know, you can kind of kind of fake it,

807
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: you know. Um. In terms of mentality, it's really hard.

808
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: Your score. You're thinking score. But when I when I

809
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: work with guys that are scoring point guards, I was like, look,

810
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: here's the one you do. I want you to think

811
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: the second time I touched the ball in any offense possession,

812
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: I want to score. But the first time, let's get

813
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: it to the first open guy right transition. You come down.

814
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: You you want to attack, attack, But after that I

815
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: need to get the ball to somebody else and then

816
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: the second time you get it, now we can go.

817
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: But there's there's some things that you can you can

818
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: you can you you can teach, and you can add.

819
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: But I do think it's hard mentally to transition from score.

820
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: That's a lot about It's about, like Mike, the team

821
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: I had the best shot with was the Lakers. They're

822
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: run in triangle where you would be better than the

823
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: triangle than I was, you know, like that's why Joe

824
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: Chrispin was great in it. You know, Mike Pemberton like

825
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: just a great shooter. Like I could do a lot

826
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: of things Mike Pemberthy couldn't do, but I could not

827
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: shoot with that guy that he made the team and

828
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: I didn't he Hey, listen, this has been amazing your journey.

829
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to see what you do next. I

830
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time more than anything. I have a

831
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 1: ton of respect for what you accomplished, what you went through,

832
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: and how you accomplished what you accomplished. Thank you, Doug.

833
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Man. I've been listening to you for

834
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: a long time. You know that I've been telling you

835
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: about that. I love I love your your podcast and

836
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: your commentary. It's it's it's refreshing because it's honest. Um,

837
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: and I love the game, and I love hearing more

838
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: and I love to share my story. So UM eager

839
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: to uh to to move forward with this thing and

840
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: uh you know, happy too happy to be here. So

841
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: thank you, man, I appreciate it. Thanks Scalp. Wow, how

842
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: great was that? Right? Reminder of The The Doug Gottlieb Show

843
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: is daily three to sixt Eastern time, twelve to three Pacific.

844
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: You can check it out on the I Heart Radio

845
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: app on any of your Fox Sports radio stations, even

846
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: the satellite radio two oh three or two seventeen. Check

847
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: that out. In the meantime, we're gonna keep doing this,

848
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: bringing you basketball guys in their basketball stories. Just so

849
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Speaker 1: happen to have two Notre Dame guys back to back,

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Speaker 1: but Coyle's and absolute stud playing with Orleans all those

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Speaker 1: all those years in pro b before shut shutting him up,

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Speaker 1: shutting it down if you will, But my thanks to

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Speaker 1: him and for you to listening. I'm Doug gott Lieben.

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Speaker 1: This is all ball