Speaker 1: Warning. This episode contains references to extreme violence. Please use
Speaker 1: discretion when listening.
Speaker 2: Okay, wait to hear others.
Speaker 3: Please join an audio.
Speaker 4: White Fine, Sorry, I'm a millennial.
Speaker 5: What are you?
Speaker 4: You're gen x No, I'm not you are Okay, new recording. Okay,
Speaker 4: it's on.
Speaker 1: Hi. Wendy, Hie. That's my older sister, Wendy. She got
Speaker 1: up extra early one morning so that she could drop
Speaker 1: off her three kids at school before getting on a
Speaker 1: zoom with me. For the record, she is technically a millennial,
Speaker 1: but I think she acts more like a gen xer.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to Wendy because we finally got
Speaker 1: into a part of the story that I kind of remember.
Speaker 1: Wendy and I are eight years apart, but we both
Speaker 1: grew up in La My parents left El Salvador in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, a year when the Civil War was
Speaker 1: at its worst. They ended up in Los Angeles, along
Speaker 1: with thousands of other Salvadorans who were fleeing the war.
Speaker 1: They slept on kitchen floors and couches until they could
Speaker 1: get on their feet. Eventually, they scraped together enough money
Speaker 1: to buy an old rundown house, the one that me
Speaker 1: and my sister Wendy grew up in But do you
Speaker 1: remember how often we would get rats from the park.
Speaker 4: Oh, my god, that was the most disgusting part. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the rats and the.
Speaker 5: I think you got bit by one one time.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I tried to pet it, but I was scared to
Speaker 1: pet it with my hands, so I pet it with my.
Speaker 2: Foot and bit my toe.
Speaker 4: It bit your I didn't even know what it did,
Speaker 4: but I just remember, like, yeah, you got bit by it.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: My family spent the nineties trying to survive in that
Speaker 1: beat up old house. It was in south central LA
Speaker 1: on a street that had an hourly motel on one
Speaker 1: corner and a crack house on the other. It was
Speaker 1: dangerous in more ways than one. My parents had very
Speaker 1: strict rules for me and my sisters. No playing outside
Speaker 1: after dark, no walking anywhere alone, go straight to school
Speaker 1: and come straight home. Honestly, it sucked. We ended up
Speaker 1: staying inside and playing Super Mario a lot. But there
Speaker 1: was only so much that they could protect us from
Speaker 1: because the reality of living in the hood was inescapable. Like,
Speaker 1: at what point did you become aware that there were
Speaker 1: gangs in the area that we were living in? Right
Speaker 1: awayway gangs, mostly divided by race, were everywhere in our neighborhood.
Speaker 1: The Crips and the Bloods, which were mostly black gangs,
Speaker 1: and the Mexican mafia were fighting it out for control
Speaker 1: of the streets of La and in response to the
Speaker 1: gang violence, thousands of Salvadoran refugees that had come fleeing
Speaker 1: the war would start to create gangs of their own.
Speaker 4: I had like a little boyfriend I remember if it
Speaker 4: was like seventh grade or eighth grade. I think probably
Speaker 4: eighth grade. It was the one that gave me the
Speaker 4: teddy bear that my dad like ripped up to shreds
Speaker 4: the second I got home. But he, unfortunately, I ended
Speaker 4: up learning like months later like that he had gotten
Speaker 4: like shot and killed because he was like a little
Speaker 4: gang member and howen was he was probably thirteen.
Speaker 1: Gang violence that started out in our neighborhood in LA
Speaker 1: would transform life for Salvadorans, and not just the ones
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, but in El Salvador too. While the
Speaker 1: war in El Salvador was ending, Salvadoran gangs in La
Speaker 1: were forming MS thirteen and Barriodicioccho, two of the most
Speaker 1: notorious gangs in the world, were born in my backyard
Speaker 1: in La These gangs would rule the next thirty years
Speaker 1: of Salvador in life and cause more death than the
Speaker 1: entire Civil War put together.
Speaker 3: Tonight we take you inside one of the most dangerous
Speaker 3: countries on Earth, a place where criminal gangs control entire neighborhoods,
Speaker 3: and these gangs from El Salvador are now operating in
Speaker 3: nearly every corner of America.
Speaker 1: I'm Jasmine Romero and this is Sacred Scandal, Nation of Saints,
Speaker 1: Episode nine, The Gangs. We'll be right back after the break.
Speaker 1: If you ask the average American what they know about
Speaker 1: El Salvador, they will probably answer you with one of
Speaker 1: two things, either one ubusas and to be fair, they
Speaker 1: are delicious, or two gangs. Since the end of the
Speaker 1: Civil War, Al Salvador's gang problem has been the number
Speaker 1: one news item about the country.
Speaker 5: El Salvador has long been plagued by stratospheric levels of
Speaker 5: gang violence.
Speaker 1: Like tens of thousands of people who grew up in
Speaker 1: the shadow of the Civil War perpetuated the cycle of
Speaker 1: violence by joining the street gangs. In twenty fifteen, there
Speaker 1: were more than six and a half thousand murders in
Speaker 1: El Salvadore the worst murder rates in the world. But
Speaker 1: these gangs, they didn't just spring up out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: They came out of the US, specifically California, from families
Speaker 1: like mine who came fleeing the war and found that
Speaker 1: California wasn't the peaceful paradise they were hoping for.
Speaker 5: They started off as young stoner kids who, out of
Speaker 5: immigrant lowliness, would come together to smoke pot listen to
Speaker 5: Ronnie James, Dio, Metallica and Cumbia's and other music on
Speaker 5: their boomboxes.
Speaker 1: That's He's a Salvadoran American journalist, professor, and writer who
Speaker 1: grew up in California. He was one of those lonely
Speaker 1: immigrant kids. In the late eighties, while the war in
Speaker 1: El Salvador was at its peak, he was in California
Speaker 1: working with an outreach group for recent migrants and he
Speaker 1: started noticing some strange patterns.
Speaker 5: But they started going to schools like in the San
Speaker 5: Fernando Valley and other places in Sherman Oaks, and they
Speaker 5: were facing crips, bloods, and Mexican kids who were linked
Speaker 5: to the Mexican mafia.
Speaker 1: Now migrants coming into low income areas were easy targets
Speaker 1: for the more established gangs that already existed. So these
Speaker 1: Salvadoran migrant kids, they start banding together and creating little
Speaker 1: gangs of their own.
Speaker 5: So these Savadorin kids found themselves being threatened by crip
Speaker 5: gang and Mexican mafia, and so to defend themselves, they
Speaker 5: started taking on machettis that I would see them buy
Speaker 5: at a store like at Liborios in Pico Union. Turns
Speaker 5: out that we're using them to defend themselves against heavily
Speaker 5: armed gangs.
Speaker 1: Barrio Disiocho and MS thirteen get their start as small
Speaker 1: street gangs, but as the violence in La escalated, more
Speaker 1: and more of these on immigrant gang members started being
Speaker 1: sent to California prisons, prisons where long established gangs were
Speaker 1: in charge. And these little disorganized Salvadorn gangs, when they
Speaker 1: start taking notes, they begin to transform.
Speaker 5: And so that's where MS thirteen starts taking on the
Speaker 5: structures and culture and practices like jumping in for thirteen seconds,
Speaker 5: getting beat up to join the gang for thirteen seconds, right,
Speaker 5: And so then the language, the tattoos, the violence, and
Speaker 5: the very structured nature of these gangs comes from California.
Speaker 1: La Maras a ra Drucha, also known as MS thirteen
Speaker 1: becomes the hardened and sophisticated gang we know today. Within
Speaker 1: those California prisons, they learn how to run extortion rings,
Speaker 1: how to exert control over territory using violence and fear,
Speaker 1: how to turn a gang into a business. And in
Speaker 1: the early nineties, the US decides that it doesn't really
Speaker 1: want to deal with these gangs anymore. Just as the
Speaker 1: salvador In Civil War is coming to an end, the
Speaker 1: US starts deporting thousands of migrants, especially those with criminal records.
Speaker 5: We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also
Speaker 5: a nation of laws. That's why our administration has moved
Speaker 5: aggressively to secure our borders.
Speaker 6: More.
Speaker 7: We will try to do more to speed the deportation
Speaker 7: of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes.
Speaker 1: The mass deportations really get started in nineteen eighty six
Speaker 1: under President Bill Clinton. His administration passed a law that
Speaker 1: made it easier to deport immigrants with criminal records.
Speaker 5: And pretty soon this country that's just coming out of
Speaker 5: the war in the early nine nineties has all kinds
Speaker 5: of guns everywhere because they were left over. Nobody not
Speaker 5: all of them were destroyed. So these kids, who are
Speaker 5: already exposed to Mexican gang cultures and structures, start implanting
Speaker 5: where the violence gets put on steroids. Because of the
Speaker 5: availability of guns.
Speaker 1: It was like an infection meeting an open wound. Not
Speaker 1: only was Alsavador still full of guns left over from
Speaker 1: the war, it was also full of people who had
Speaker 1: been in that war. Children who had grown up traumatized
Speaker 1: by extreme levels of violence, kids who had one or
Speaker 1: both parents killed in the war, or kids that were
Speaker 1: left behind by parents who had immigrated to the US,
Speaker 1: kids looking for a family. By the late nineties, alsavor
Speaker 1: was one of the poorest countries in the world. The
Speaker 1: economy never truly recovered after the war, and young people
Speaker 1: had very few opportunities to advance. So these newly deported
Speaker 1: gangs move in and they solve two societal problems for
Speaker 1: thousands of angry young people. They provide a sense of
Speaker 1: family of community, and they provide a job by charging
Speaker 1: rent to regular Salvadorans a fee for living within gang territory.
Speaker 1: By the mid two thousands, what had started as little
Speaker 1: cliques in La had become one of the world's most
Speaker 1: deadly and organized criminal organizations, and it became the only
Speaker 1: story that the world knew about Ol Salvador.
Speaker 6: In l Salvador, these days, there's one murder an hour
Speaker 6: for a pretty small country, only six million people. It
Speaker 6: doesn't take long when you're, you know, going out at
Speaker 6: night to stumble upon a scene like this with a
Speaker 6: body laying dead in the streets. And that's that's pretty
Speaker 6: much what people here are living with. These just constant
Speaker 6: shootings and murders. Right now, El Salvador is on track
Speaker 6: to be the nation with the highest homicide rate in
Speaker 6: the world.
Speaker 1: The gangs were the warnings of the murdered Jesuits come
Speaker 1: to life. Father Ignacio Martin Barot had theorized that the
Speaker 1: trauma of war would leave the Salvadoran society with a
Speaker 1: militarized mind, that violence would become the default solution for
Speaker 1: all of society's problems, and that was true not just
Speaker 1: for the gangs, but also for the government. Over the years,
Speaker 1: the Salvadoran government has tried to handle the gang problem
Speaker 1: by meeting violence with violence. In two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: the Arena led government put in place it's blan Manodura
Speaker 1: Plan iron Fist, a police crackdown on these gangs followed
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four by the creatively named Blan
Speaker 1: super Manodura sup Iron Fist, and these crackdowns led to
Speaker 1: the rise of an old tactic death squads, police officers
Speaker 1: going out in the dead of night to kidnap, torture
Speaker 1: and kill, but this time targeting the gangs. And though
Speaker 1: there have been attempts to rehabilitate gang members too, overwhelmingly
Speaker 1: the plans that have received the most funding and support
Speaker 1: in El Salvador were ones led by the military and police.
Speaker 1: For most of my life, the gangs have been the
Speaker 1: only story told about Al Salvador, and it's one that
Speaker 1: I know really well because my family has lived at firsthand.
Speaker 1: We've had people in the gangs, and we've had people
Speaker 1: killed by the gangs. It's a cycle that's best explained
Speaker 1: by someone you've heard from before.
Speaker 8: Mitievilma Mala mala poor ky Lo loke.
Speaker 2: Ma fel.
Speaker 1: I've known a lot of people in the gangs, she says,
Speaker 1: like the ones who killed my son. That's after the break.
Speaker 7: Me nores Will says, so the Salvador San Miguel Oriente.
Speaker 8: Ute yo sooi and relations and so dia, so you Natiya.
Speaker 1: That's my Tavilma. You might remember her from previous episode.
Speaker 1: She's the aunt that takes no ship. She's little, about
Speaker 1: five four, but I've seen her cuss out men that
Speaker 1: are twice her size, which is why it was always
Speaker 1: so strange that her son, Tulio, my cousin, was such
Speaker 1: a sweet kid.
Speaker 2: Bienko to para black.
Speaker 1: Julio was small like his mom, but with a big mouth.
Speaker 1: I remember hanging out with him when I was a
Speaker 1: kid on our yearly trips to Olsavador. He was about
Speaker 1: my sister's age, eight years older than me, with cocoa
Speaker 1: brown skin and dark eyes that were crowded with thick eyelashes,
Speaker 1: and he always had this sly smile on his face.
Speaker 2: Into into in pre.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just like with my Tia Margarita, my Tia
Speaker 1: Vilma had a real soft spot for Tulio. Tulio was
Speaker 1: always the one telling her not to be so loud
Speaker 1: or crass, chastising her with a mommy. Toulu grew up
Speaker 1: in San Miguel, and because he was small for his age,
Speaker 1: he was able to get through most of his childhood unscathed.
Speaker 1: But when he turned fifteen, he finally arrived at a
Speaker 1: right of passage for suv Orn boys, and.
Speaker 2: Marie Juel del Piero be.
Speaker 1: Did he He was jumped beat up by some boys
Speaker 1: at school, boys that wanted him to join their gang.
Speaker 1: This was pretty typical. Once the boy was of a
Speaker 1: certain age, he was expected to join the gang that
Speaker 1: controlled the territory that he lived in, and for Tulio
Speaker 1: that meant Ms thirteen. When he came home from school
Speaker 1: covered in bruises, Matia Vilma got her machete off the
Speaker 1: wall and told Tulio to point out the kids that
Speaker 1: had beat him up. Matia Vilma whooped their asses. She
Speaker 1: went straight over to those kids' houses and in front
Speaker 1: of their moms, whooped their asses with the flat side
Speaker 1: of her machete. And she told them that the next
Speaker 1: time they jumped her kid, they wouldn't be dealing with her,
Speaker 1: they'd be dealing with his father, a colonel in the military,
Speaker 1: which is totally not true, but the lie worked.
Speaker 2: They left Julio.
Speaker 1: Alone for a while, but when he turned seventeen, the
Speaker 1: beating started again. But worse, Mila, these weren't just kids
Speaker 1: jumping him in anymore. These were grown men sending Tulio
Speaker 1: a message. Mitia realized that if Tulio stayed in San Miguel,
Speaker 1: he'd either end up in one of the gangs or dead.
Speaker 1: She had watched my other cousin, Chico, join m S
Speaker 1: thirteen and watched him slowly cover himself with tattoos. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Chico landed in a salvador In prison for life. It
Speaker 1: was a future that she didn't want for her son.
Speaker 1: Mitiavilma decided to send Tulio north to the US. Another
Speaker 1: one of my aunts was planning on crossing over, and
Speaker 1: Vilma asked if she would bring Tullia along. Tulio crossed
Speaker 1: the border in nineteen ninety nine. For a while, he
Speaker 1: stayed with an aunt in La Then he stayed with
Speaker 1: another cousin. But there's a saying in Spanish about guests
Speaker 1: and the dead that they both start to stink after
Speaker 1: three days. After CouchSurfing with various family members, Duliu had
Speaker 1: to find his own way. He ended up working odd jobs,
Speaker 1: delivering newspapers, packing boxes at a juice factory, and sending
Speaker 1: money back to mythea whenever he got a chance.
Speaker 7: Almes Conlin Tamamil Lobi.
Speaker 1: And my Tia Vilma needed a lot of help because
Speaker 1: back in San Miguel, m S. Thirteen was extorting everyone,
Speaker 1: charging rent for living in their territory, even someone like
Speaker 1: Vilma who didn't have a lot of money and was
Speaker 1: still loading baskets full of chilate to sell in the market.
Speaker 1: She came home one day to find that her neighbor
Speaker 1: had a message for her.
Speaker 2: Mediela vecina a.
Speaker 1: Yo a Manila envelope. The neighbor said that she didn't
Speaker 1: know who it was from. Inside the envelope was a
Speaker 1: flip phone and a note.
Speaker 7: Yela Senora senoras e Liz Damoselando di la.
Speaker 1: The note said, miss Vilma, greetings from MS. Thirteen. At first,
Speaker 1: my Thea thought it was a joke or something, but
Speaker 1: she quickly realized that this was serious. The note was
Speaker 1: full of details about my Tia Vilma's life Don.
Speaker 2: De Villa Familia doos.
Speaker 1: The note warned her that if she wanted to stay alive,
Speaker 1: she would have to start hang rent to the gang.
Speaker 1: Within minutes of her opening the envelope, the flip phone
Speaker 1: that was inside started ringing capasom it was a gang
Speaker 1: member calling to get her response to the note. As
Speaker 1: my Thea was telling me this story, I could feel
Speaker 1: the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.
Speaker 1: If it was me, I probably would have lost it.
Speaker 1: But my Dea, well, she's made of tougher stuff.
Speaker 2: Quin Quin gris.
Speaker 1: She got on the phone and she told him, listen up,
Speaker 1: you little ship. I don't know who you think you are,
Speaker 1: but I'm not paying you a dime. I've got two
Speaker 1: sons who are higher rank than you and the gangs,
Speaker 1: and if you don't leave me alone, I'll have them
Speaker 1: take care of you, which was completely not true, but
Speaker 1: she did have my cousin, Chico, the one who was
Speaker 1: in prison. She called the prison that my cousin was
Speaker 1: in and asked him if he would back her up
Speaker 1: and get the gangs to leave her alone. She said
Speaker 1: the whole time that she was on the phone, her
Speaker 1: legs were shaking so hard that it rattled the table.
Speaker 1: The relationship with my cousin Chico is complicated. He had
Speaker 1: lent his name to the family before offering them protection
Speaker 1: through his connection with the gangs, but we also suspect
Speaker 1: that he's responsible for some shootings that have happened around
Speaker 1: my family, including one that killed my uncle Chico agreed
Speaker 1: to cover Mathia, and after that phone call, the gangs
Speaker 1: left Mathia alone for the most part. But that's just
Speaker 1: how it was in Alsavador. There was no escaping the gangs.
Speaker 1: They were a part of everyday life, and every day
Speaker 1: Mythia was thankful that my cousin Thulia was in the US,
Speaker 1: far away from that life. But about eight years after
Speaker 1: Thulil left to live in California, he suddenly appeared on
Speaker 1: her doorstep back in San Miguel.
Speaker 8: Iporkiseviotulio dess no Stella el medj Here.
Speaker 1: He told Mitya Avilma that he'd come back to visit her,
Speaker 1: but the truth was he'd been deported. While in the US,
Speaker 1: he and a bunch of friends had started an illegal
Speaker 1: street racing ring. He was one of the organizers, and
Speaker 1: he got arrested in two thousand and seven for his
Speaker 1: part in it. When he got back to Olsavador, he
Speaker 1: told Matievilma that he was only going to stay for
Speaker 1: six months until May tenth, Mother's Day so that he
Speaker 1: could celebrate with her. Then he'd figure out a way
Speaker 1: to get back across the border and get back to work.
Speaker 7: Gestavarresim Benilo Taos. He saw Louja Pasarda de la madreco
Speaker 7: mio querl dias de mayu.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is de Mayo il dia de la Cruzieki.
Speaker 1: On the afternoon of May third, he went out to
Speaker 1: play soccer with some other guys in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: I mean, memo, beat you a ya mami javengko you know,
Speaker 2: he said.
Speaker 1: My tia told him not to go out for too
Speaker 1: long because she was making him lunch, his favorite tomato stew.
Speaker 1: A few minutes later, a kid from the neighborhood came
Speaker 1: running up to my aunt's door.
Speaker 2: Mammy, Mammy, mammy, miss yo, you can't see.
Speaker 1: She thought they were kidding. At first, the words didn't
Speaker 1: even register, but they kept yelling at her. They killed,
Speaker 1: they killed. She ran to the playground where he'd been playing,
Speaker 1: and she found her son crumpled on the floor Guano.
Speaker 2: Lanco to.
Speaker 1: What startled her most was the color, the bright white
Speaker 1: color of Tulio's skull. He'd been shot three times, once
Speaker 1: in the chest, once in the back, and once in
Speaker 1: the back of his head. She knelt down beside his
Speaker 1: body and cradled her son in her arms.
Speaker 2: You gotta the moment the vaster.
Speaker 1: She prayed over him, told him how much she loved him.
Speaker 1: She asked God to take care of him. She doesn't
Speaker 1: know how much time passed. The next thing she remembers
Speaker 1: as a policeman asking her to step away from the body.
Speaker 2: Carr Porte.
Speaker 1: The details around Tulio's death are uncertain. I spoke to
Speaker 1: a lot of family and people who knew at the time,
Speaker 1: and they all have different theories about why he was killed.
Speaker 1: Some say that a couple of days before his death,
Speaker 1: he'd gotten into an argument with a security guard who
Speaker 1: had connections to the gangs. Others say that Tulio had
Speaker 1: witnessed a gang murder and that's why they came after him.
Speaker 1: But the thing that everyone I spoke to agreed on
Speaker 1: was that Tulio wasn't in a gang himself, and that
Speaker 1: he was killed by m s thirteen.
Speaker 7: Mi vinti sulo mataro hey turo is doro solo cannos
Speaker 7: have it unserqurido de la manu to.
Speaker 2: Pandias.
Speaker 1: In the aftermath of Tulio's murder, Matia Vilma was asked
Speaker 1: to go to the police station to look at mugshots
Speaker 1: and try to identify his killers, but she never did.
Speaker 1: The fact is everyone in the neighborhood knew who had
Speaker 1: done it. MS thirteen did little to hide their responsibility
Speaker 1: for Tulio's murder, but to identify them would have been
Speaker 1: a death sentence. They just come and kill you next,
Speaker 1: and your family too, just to prove a point.
Speaker 2: USI the local, I l lay de la lay de la.
Speaker 9: You have.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in man's justice, she says, it's corrupt,
Speaker 1: but you don't play with God's justice. Whoever did this,
Speaker 1: they'll have to answer to the Lord. I don't know
Speaker 1: if they'll ever answer to the Lord or not. All
Speaker 1: I know is the suffering that I see on my
Speaker 1: aunt's face, the loss first of a sister to the
Speaker 1: death squads, then of a son to the gangs. As
Speaker 1: of this recording, seven of my family members are in
Speaker 1: prison for gang related crimes and six have been killed
Speaker 1: in gang related violence. I'll be honest here. For most
Speaker 1: of my life, Al Salvador felt like a place beyond saving.
Speaker 1: My parents have always talked about it with a love
Speaker 1: and affection that I didn't understand, like Al Salvador was
Speaker 1: the one that got away when they would talk about
Speaker 1: wanting to go back there to attire. My first thought
Speaker 1: was always why, what for? But in twenty nineteen something
Speaker 1: happened that changed the way that my parents thought about
Speaker 1: Ol Salvador. They changed the way that the whole world
Speaker 1: thought about Ol Salvador.
Speaker 9: Yes, it is Alotoria, he almost excavated. Juntos nostra pais
Speaker 9: is common in your fermo, no stock cala todos quarlo
Speaker 9: no stock coloratos, tom poco, and is in a marga
Speaker 9: no stock aloratoos so freedom poco, no stock aloratos and
Speaker 9: lord as to miRNA starts comermandos saka Atlanta oestra Familia
Speaker 9: and nostro pas.
Speaker 1: Salvador President Nai Buke, the self proclaimed world's coolest dictator
Speaker 1: and the future of El Salvador. That's on the next
Speaker 1: episode of Nation of Saints Sacred Scandal. Nation of Saints
Speaker 1: is a production of AJA Podcasts in partnership with Iheart's
Speaker 1: Michaultura podcast network, and is hosted and written by me
Speaker 1: Jasmine Romero, produced by Jazmin Romero with help from Alvaro Espelees.
Speaker 1: Research and reporting by Jasmine Romero, edited by Sayre Kevelo.
Speaker 1: Nation of Saints was recorded in New York City at
Speaker 1: the Relic Room, with engineering by Brett Tugan. Mixing and
Speaker 1: sound designed by Paciquinones. Original music by Golden Mindes, Darko
Speaker 1: and Aaeme based on Patrick Hart's original composition, fact checking
Speaker 1: by Erendira Aquino Ayala. Executive producers are Carman geratol Isaac
Speaker 1: Lee rose Red, and Nando Villa. Our executive producers at
Speaker 1: iHeart are Giselle Fansis and Arlene Santana. Sacred Scandal was
Speaker 1: created by Melanie Bartley and Baulavadro's. For more podcasts, go
Speaker 1: to the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite podcasts